April 17, 2025 • 23 mins
As global freight capacity tightens and disruption becomes the new norm, small and midsize freight forwarders are under more pressure than ever to compete with logistics giants. But what if smarter, AI-driven platforms could help level the playing field, unlocking efficiency, speed, and scale without ballooning operational costs?
This week, host Ellen Wood is joined by Chris Condon, CEO and Founder of Aircon, to explore the growing power of cargo pooling and digital platforms in transforming airfreight operations. Chris shares how Aircon’s platform leverages AI to optimize quoting, booking, and routing—helping logistics teams move faster, adapt in real time, and win bigger in a high-stakes freight market. With real-world success stories and a glimpse into where the industry is headed, this episode reveals how the right tech can turn freight into a strategic edge.
Join us as we discuss:
This week, host Ellen Wood is joined by Chris Condon, CEO and Founder of Aircon, to explore the growing power of cargo pooling and digital platforms in transforming airfreight operations. Chris shares how Aircon’s platform leverages AI to optimize quoting, booking, and routing—helping logistics teams move faster, adapt in real time, and win bigger in a high-stakes freight market. With real-world success stories and a glimpse into where the industry is headed, this episode reveals how the right tech can turn freight into a strategic edge.
Join us as we discuss:
- How AI-enabled cargo pooling drives down costs and boosts speed
- The platform tools helping small forwarders compete at enterprise scale
- Why shared gateways are becoming a freight game-changer
- How Aircon helps teams stay agile and operational during major disruptions
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. As global
supply chains grow more complex and capacity becomes harder to predict,
the pressure is on freight forwarders to find smarter, faster,
and more cost effective ways to move cargo. In this episode,
(00:52):
we're diving into how technology, specifically AI driven cargo pooling
and digital platforms, are transforming air freight logistics. We'll explore
how companies like air con are helping small and mid
size forwarders compete at scale, stay agile during disruptions, and
unlock new levels of efficiency across quoting, booking and beyond.
(01:13):
Joining me today is Chris Connon, CEO and founder of
air con.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Welcome, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I am really looking forward to this conversation today because
it is top of mind for a lot of businesses
right now who are trying to get their product everywhere.
What is it that is driving the demand for smarter
cargo pooling when it comes to air freight.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
A lot of different things are driving the demand, but
in essence, it's really how you can control your costs
and air cargo. It's different than any other mode of transportation.
If you're in air freight, obviously you know you're paid
or you're charged on a chargeable weight, which is either
your scale weight or your volume weight, and the larger
the two is your chargeable weight. So if you can
combine those, you can actually reduce your chargeable weight by
(01:59):
up to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, so how does this work? How do how does
air con work for your clients? And what is the
value that it's delivering? Because your your focus is not
on you know the Obviously, the larger enterprise organizations have
departments dedicated to this, So this is really for the
(02:22):
for the smaller guy who doesn't have that internal team
able to sit and crunch numbers all day and figure
out the best way to do it, it seems for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, the consolidation of cargo is not a new concept.
All your larger freight forwarders do it. They obviously have
the scale, they have the consistent volume, they have the
buying rates with the airline, they have all that. So
we are doing that to really support multiple freight forwarders
in one so they don't have to have their own
volume or their own capacities. They can leverage other people's
(02:54):
volumes and or the industry's volume and the industry movement.
And then with their other product being captain, which is
our AI agent, allows routings.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And when does consolidation make sense? Is speed matters? Does
does the rate matter? Direct? Indirect? All that kind of
good stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Is really the driving force behind what we're doing today
is really more the art of the quote, not so
much the action of the actual shipment.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So one thing that that I've talked about on other
podcast episodes, and one of the things is that collaboration
of companies, the individual companies working together in order to
make the logistics work for them. And and you touched
on that, there just a moment ago where you know
they don't have to have the whole the whole thing
(03:43):
figured out on their own they can leverage other forwarders.
Do you find that they're amenable to that or is
there I mean, is there still competition instead of collaboration
or is it are they coming around and realizing that
they can't do this alone?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You know, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
As I believe that people do business with people, I
also believe that that people are very somewhat short sighted
in terms of looking at this type of collaboration, right,
what is my rate per shipment right?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Or on this particular shipment.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
They're not really looking to be collaborative in terms of
over the next twelve months or twenty four months, which
is a challenge for these small to medium sized rate
borders in my mind, to really compete at scale, because really,
if you have consistent business, then you can actually do
better job of planning your staff, you can do better
planning all those things around there. But because you're so transactional,
(04:40):
it becomes extremely difficult to plan you know, three years,
four years down the line.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
No, absolutely, So, what are some of the improvements that
it has been able to bring, whether it's you know,
in the in quoting or booking or tracking the these shipments.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, so we're starting with the really with the
quoting side is really where we're putting most of our
emphasis on today. Obviously, we're going to get to booking,
We're going to get to track and trace, which you know,
I'll say visibility, which I think is somewhat laughable because
who really cares where your frate's at? It's what when
am I going to get my hand on it? And
what's it going to cost me?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
But we aren't starting with quoting for for a couple
of different reasons. One is we think it's a tech
is not out there today in terms of of how.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Do you win business?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And I use this example a lot with with our customers.
Is if you have a customer that ships out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
and little shot out to Wisconsin because I'm a packer fan,
so goot, pat go, most people will look at Milwaukee
to Chicago, Chicago to London, London to Joe burd for example,
because there's just a lot more capacity out of there.
(05:55):
There's you know, the rates are somewhat stable out of
that market. And let's say they're using British Airways as
their as their carrier. That's just how they quote it.
And it could be a matter of uh, their ability
or inability to know what else is out there or
what is the what is the summer schedule for British Airways,
what is the.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And whatnot?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
So our quoting or our our ai agent, which again
we're calling captain cargo. We'll look at Milwaukee, what is
the what is the area that it should go around?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
What is your requirements? Right?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And there's some things to play with this in terms
of whatnot. So maybe BA has a direct flight out
of Cincinnati at half the cost, right or what if
what if the customer doesn't need it in three to
four days, they only they need it in ten or
or something less than or faster than ocean or truck
can get it there. And and a lot of times
(06:51):
we or we believe that that Franate Ford's don't a
lot of times don't grow their business because they don't
understand the actual need of the customer. They're trying to
quote based on what they believe the best services or
how they can look good. That's one of the reasons
why I think there's all this geo political stuff that's
going around and all these different things really help the
freight forwarder because it will help decommoditize them and really
(07:15):
show value that they understand different routes, They understand how
to move the freight, they understand the regulations or regulatorial
side of it, and they can actually support their customers
in a manner other than Hong Kong to Seattle or
Hong Kong to or wherever to Long Beach, which those
routes are somewhat established for the last fifteen to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
One thing you mentioned a moment ago was that you know,
when you're looking at air freight, it's because you don't
have the time to wait for ocean cargo. Is that
always the case, that it's something that is a time
of the essence, or there are other reasons why smaller
companies would choose air freight over another.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, so I think you know a lot of people
are miss misunderstand air freight as a kind of oh moment, right, like, hey,
manufacturing is down or whatever, and they want to pay more. Right,
It's only it's kind of funny. It's like air freight
is only one percent of global trade, right if you're
by volume, right, Obviously most of its ocean. But there's
lots of different reasons why someone move air freight could
(08:21):
be security, could be speed, could be they can't do
the condensation and an ocean container, you know. Or it
could be just that the production can't keep up and
so and there's enough margin in it to movia air
versus ocean.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You look at like an iPhone or a lot of
medical devices automotive where just in time becomes you know,
and I don't I don't pretend to understand all the
reasons why, but like I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
We move, we move corrugated.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
For one of our customers has moves corrugated out of
the Midwest to India every week, a couple of times
a week. And obviously it's it's not just plaining corrugated, right,
there's obviously it's coded with something, and it's for the
medical industry, right of some sort. And and so for
whatever reason the cost of manufacturing in America and flying
(09:16):
it to India is more cost effective or whatever reason,
they do it. So it's not a moment, it's more
of by design in most cases. And another thing I
think most people don't understand or or don't think about,
is most of the cargo globally has moved.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
On passion aircrafts.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Right, it's not ups FedEx or cargo only aircraft. Most
of it is in the belly of a passion air aircraft,
which becomes gravy for the in essence, really comes gravy
for the airline because they're making most of their money
on the passenger side of it. But it also makes
it more difficult because there's not a lot of ride
(09:58):
share agreements, if you will, for cargo like they do
for passengers, because it's just it's just not set up
that way today.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Right right now, that makes sense. So where has captain
cargo air con been able to make like a significant difference.
Can you tell us a case study or an example
of you know where it changed the way your your
clients saw air freight.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, so the consolidation part is is relatively easy. We
have customers that we use Dallas to London a lot.
We're based out of Dallas, So Dallas to London London
is twenty nine percent of all US exports goes to
London as the first stop. That's also why the data
is not a very good in our industry. But we
(10:47):
have we have three or four freight foards that ship
out of Dallas every week every Thursday. They were paying
let's say a dollar for ease a math We're able
to buy at roughly the same price from the air line,
But by combining these three or four preakporters, I'm able
to offer them between let's say eighty cents to seventy
five eighty cents a kilo, and I'm still making you know,
(11:11):
ten to fifteen percent on top of that, So it's
a win for everybody involved. In addition to the just
the rate, you're less likely to get bumped from the
airline because obviously if put baggage baggages are bags whatever,
fill up the plane, they're gonna they're more likely to
remove a carton or a palette versus a ULD. There's
(11:34):
less damage to you to your product, which allows you
to be more predictable on your transit time.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, So if you are sensitive to.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I got to be there in four days, you have
a much higher chance of doing that through a ULD
build or through consolidation, and.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So we've done that.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
We have two big lanes that we do is JFK
to Indy and Dallas to London are the two biggest
lanes that we do to and it's.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Working at scale.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So that really is leveling this playing field for those
those smaller businesses to give them the ability to play
against the larger players in their industries.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, And it's one of those things where
if you think of, you know, these these big large
freight forwarders that continue to buy you know, you think
of like shanker dsv couganaugu Apex, Expediters, pick one out
of her that you know of, CIVA every time that
they buy a or try to consolidate these freight forwarders
(12:36):
into one. There's five to ten other freight forwarders that
that pop up right, and they call them logistics companies
or whatever, but we believe it's because people do business
with people right and in logistics, as we all know,
things happen right, things missed the flight, things.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, flat tire, whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
So you want to have the ability to call someone
and get answers to with solution to your problem, right,
either you're manufacturing your customer whatever, you want to be
able to have an answer versus, hey, my freight's in London,
it's stuck in the ba's automated where else and it's
lost and it's going to be lost for six to
twelve months.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
But I know it's in London.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
That I laugh because that makes me think of you know,
advice that has recently been started given to marketing. So
when we're when we're forwarding our freight for trade shows
and things, one of one of the new industry standards
is to get some air tags and pop an air
tag on the side of your carton or you know,
(13:42):
tuck it inside so that you can find it, because
they get lost so often, they get misplaced in the
warehouse and you want to be able to find it.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
No, it's very very true. It's extremely true. And what's
funny about that is is people it's kind of like
insurance on air freight. We're on cargoing generally, right, it's
pretty cheap, right, It's if you really think about it's like,
why want someone spend you know, ten cents per hundred
or twenty cents per hundred whatever the cost is for
when they're shipping million dollars worth of product and realize,
(14:14):
particularly in ocean, stuff goes in the ocean all the time. Yeah,
and it's like for pennies, you can ensure that and
become whole. But we're so focused on that transaction of
that particular container, that particular cost, and the companies are siloed, right,
So a lot of times the logistics people in a
company aren't the same or aren't bonused, or aren't measured
(14:36):
the same as the marketing side or the you know
whatever the silo is, and it gets misaligned very quickly,
right in terms of what's best for the company versus
what's best for the individual.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
All right, so what about disruptions. So we've we've talked
a little bit about you know, lost cargo, but when
other disruptions are affecting the supply chain in general, what
agility does this enable for those those smaller companies.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
That's a great point and something that is very difficult
for me to articulate, but I'm gonna try.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
So. Really it's about knowledge of what's out there.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Right, So these small to medium sized right forwarders may
have a great network from US to the EU or
US to the Middle East or whatever, but they don't
necessarily have a global network.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So air con is really the backstop to that.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
From our platform, marketplace consolidation standpoint is the backstop so
you can provide a solution to your customer in real time.
So like we can give you a door to door
quote quote anywhere to anywhere in the world and less
than a minute at a competitive wholesale rate. Right, So
now you can compete at scale if you get the
(15:50):
business and then when the customer books it, we do
that that logic and our tech again, so again taking
that Milwaukee standpoint is if we have to have it
by a certain date, we're going to give you the
probability and predictability of through Chicago and through Cincinnati and
let your customer decide what the best solution is. Another
(16:11):
scenario that we've done is you think of like a
UPS airline, which everybody knows parcel takes priority over cargo
for UPS. Right, it's everybody knows it, and you just
kind of understand it. Right, it's going to take you
between five and ten days to get it to London,
for example, or to buy and that might be okay
(16:31):
for your customer because it's you know, it's twenty five
percent of the cost of Cutter or American And so
giving these solutions to the people that are actually buying
the service allows you to provide a better service to
your customer and to keep your customer inside your four
walls versus looking somewhere else. About fifty percent of our
(16:52):
customers are actually truckers or brokers of truckers, which is.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Kind of interesting to me. And they really, they.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Might only do one percent of their volume is air free,
but they don't want their customer to go from a
you know, trucker a to a forwarder because maybe that
forder also does trucking, right, So the more you can
keep your fingers on them, the better. And that's what
we're really trying to do is one we have a
global network, a wholesale no retail forwarders, no retail truckers,
(17:20):
all on a wholesale level, which again allows you to
think bigger versus the network that you have built well.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And one thing I want to ask, just because we
dealt with it this spring, all these storms that have
come through, some massive storms, big ones that you know,
we're significant tornadoes across the Midwest, what happens when is
it that agile where someone had already planned something, now
(17:51):
they've we've got all this disruption there, planes grounded, flights
aren't flying. How agile can it be when the weather is.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
So you know, we haven't built this yet, but it
is on our product road map. It's really our third
AI agent that we're building, which will be we're not
really sure what to call it yet or visibility agent,
exception management, whatever you want to call it. And so
the scenario that we talk about internally is and and
I'll and I'll bring it back to the weather part
(18:22):
of it is, let's say you're shipping something to joe Berg, right,
and you're going Chicago, London, London, joe Burg on Virgin
air Lines and it misses the flight for whatever reason
from London to joe Burg, and Virgin Airline only has
two flights a week. This happens at midnight our time.
(18:44):
Our agent will either rebook it, depending on your urgency,
on another carrier, right, so we either pull it out
of there and put it on another carrier, or we'll
we'll rebook it for that next one, depending on the requirement.
So but what the thought process is is that we
will in real time identify and take action while you're sleeping, right,
(19:08):
so you have a solution or at least an you
know what the problem is and you know what the
possible solutions are. When you're coming in the morning or
to your customers. So it's not a matter of eight o'clock,
where's my shaming? Oh it didn't make that flight last night.
When's the next schedule?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Right?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
What are the other airlines that go London to Joeber
what are the you know like again right, exactly right,
So we are AI agent through air con. Well, then
I'll give you those solutions, okay, same as is. Or hey,
you want to rebook it. It's going to cost you
a ten x or five x whatever the cost is,
(19:47):
and now you can make.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That decision what's best for you as the buyer.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Because maybe again you're using the ups scenario, maybe you
don't need it tomorrow, you need it this week or
next week, and that next flight is okay, yeah, right,
So it's all about giving power to where the power
of elite belongs in my opinion, and letting the freight
forwarder become relevant again in terms of their knowledge, in
(20:11):
terms of the rigs and know those things and really
provide service over rate, which is what I think we're
gonna we'll see in the next year to eighteen months.
You saw it during COVID, uh to be fair, right,
you know when when the capacity shrunk and you know
people weren't flying.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It wasn't about the raid. It was about getting capacity,
it was about routes. It was about these things.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And if you didn't make money during COVID and logistics,
you probably shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Be in the space, you know what.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
As disastrous as it was for the world, it was
great for our industry.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
It's funny as I talked to some freight forwarders that
started or logistics companies that started during that time, and
they really started for ocean, right, And it's funny because they, well,
we don't understand why we're not making money. Well, ten
percent on thirty thousand is dollar. Ten percent on one thousand,
you probably need to have other service offerings.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Right, That's not all that much, right, It's just reality, right.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
It absolutely is. So that brings us to the end
of this episode. Thank you so much, Chris for the
introduction to this amazing new tool that you have and
this opportunity for some of these smaller and medium sized
businesses to capitalize on the agility that is available to
(21:33):
the larger players in the market. You've really opened a
door for these organizations to really up their supply chain game.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate the fact that
you can see that vision as well, because it's we
think it's important.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It very much is. The little guys need all the
help they can get.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I agreed, I agreed.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
If our listeners out there have a suggestion for a
topic or would like to be a guest on the show,
we would love to hear from you. You can reach
out at podcast at meboch dot com at any time.
As always, thanks for listening to Speaking of Supply Chain.
If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review us
on whichever podcast platform you prefer. We're on Apple Podcasts,
(22:15):
Amazon Music, and Spotify. Be sure to tune in next time.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Meeboch Consulting is one of the largest and most globally
recognized supply chain consulting, engineering, and advisory firms. For nearly
fifty years, we've helped clients achieve supply chain excellence and
sustainable competitive advantage across the entire spectrum of the supply
chain by delivering improvements and innovation strategically, tactically, and digitally.
(22:45):
To learn more, visit meeboch dot com. You've been listening
to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast, Keep connected
with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite
podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please rate
the show that helps us to keep delivering the latest
in supply chain information. Thanks for listening until next time.
(23:15):
You've been listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest in supply chain information. Thanks for listening, until
next time.
You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. As global
supply chains grow more complex and capacity becomes harder to predict,
the pressure is on freight forwarders to find smarter, faster,
and more cost effective ways to move cargo. In this episode,
(00:52):
we're diving into how technology, specifically AI driven cargo pooling
and digital platforms, are transforming air freight logistics. We'll explore
how companies like air con are helping small and mid
size forwarders compete at scale, stay agile during disruptions, and
unlock new levels of efficiency across quoting, booking and beyond.
(01:13):
Joining me today is Chris Connon, CEO and founder of
air con.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Welcome, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I am really looking forward to this conversation today because
it is top of mind for a lot of businesses
right now who are trying to get their product everywhere.
What is it that is driving the demand for smarter
cargo pooling when it comes to air freight.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
A lot of different things are driving the demand, but
in essence, it's really how you can control your costs
and air cargo. It's different than any other mode of transportation.
If you're in air freight, obviously you know you're paid
or you're charged on a chargeable weight, which is either
your scale weight or your volume weight, and the larger
the two is your chargeable weight. So if you can
combine those, you can actually reduce your chargeable weight by
(01:59):
up to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, so how does this work? How do how does
air con work for your clients? And what is the
value that it's delivering? Because your your focus is not
on you know the Obviously, the larger enterprise organizations have
departments dedicated to this, So this is really for the
(02:22):
for the smaller guy who doesn't have that internal team
able to sit and crunch numbers all day and figure
out the best way to do it, it seems for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, the consolidation of cargo is not a new concept.
All your larger freight forwarders do it. They obviously have
the scale, they have the consistent volume, they have the
buying rates with the airline, they have all that. So
we are doing that to really support multiple freight forwarders
in one so they don't have to have their own
volume or their own capacities. They can leverage other people's
(02:54):
volumes and or the industry's volume and the industry movement.
And then with their other product being captain, which is
our AI agent, allows routings.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And when does consolidation make sense? Is speed matters? Does
does the rate matter? Direct? Indirect? All that kind of
good stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Is really the driving force behind what we're doing today
is really more the art of the quote, not so
much the action of the actual shipment.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So one thing that that I've talked about on other
podcast episodes, and one of the things is that collaboration
of companies, the individual companies working together in order to
make the logistics work for them. And and you touched
on that, there just a moment ago where you know
they don't have to have the whole the whole thing
(03:43):
figured out on their own they can leverage other forwarders.
Do you find that they're amenable to that or is
there I mean, is there still competition instead of collaboration
or is it are they coming around and realizing that
they can't do this alone?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You know, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
As I believe that people do business with people, I
also believe that that people are very somewhat short sighted
in terms of looking at this type of collaboration, right,
what is my rate per shipment right?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Or on this particular shipment.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
They're not really looking to be collaborative in terms of
over the next twelve months or twenty four months, which
is a challenge for these small to medium sized rate
borders in my mind, to really compete at scale, because really,
if you have consistent business, then you can actually do
better job of planning your staff, you can do better
planning all those things around there. But because you're so transactional,
(04:40):
it becomes extremely difficult to plan you know, three years,
four years down the line.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
No, absolutely, So, what are some of the improvements that
it has been able to bring, whether it's you know,
in the in quoting or booking or tracking the these shipments.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, so we're starting with the really with the
quoting side is really where we're putting most of our
emphasis on today. Obviously, we're going to get to booking,
We're going to get to track and trace, which you know,
I'll say visibility, which I think is somewhat laughable because
who really cares where your frate's at? It's what when
am I going to get my hand on it? And
what's it going to cost me?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
But we aren't starting with quoting for for a couple
of different reasons. One is we think it's a tech
is not out there today in terms of of how.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Do you win business?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And I use this example a lot with with our customers.
Is if you have a customer that ships out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
and little shot out to Wisconsin because I'm a packer fan,
so goot, pat go, most people will look at Milwaukee
to Chicago, Chicago to London, London to Joe burd for example,
because there's just a lot more capacity out of there.
(05:55):
There's you know, the rates are somewhat stable out of
that market. And let's say they're using British Airways as
their as their carrier. That's just how they quote it.
And it could be a matter of uh, their ability
or inability to know what else is out there or
what is the what is the summer schedule for British Airways,
what is the.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And whatnot?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
So our quoting or our our ai agent, which again
we're calling captain cargo. We'll look at Milwaukee, what is
the what is the area that it should go around?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
What is your requirements? Right?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And there's some things to play with this in terms
of whatnot. So maybe BA has a direct flight out
of Cincinnati at half the cost, right or what if
what if the customer doesn't need it in three to
four days, they only they need it in ten or
or something less than or faster than ocean or truck
can get it there. And and a lot of times
(06:51):
we or we believe that that Franate Ford's don't a
lot of times don't grow their business because they don't
understand the actual need of the customer. They're trying to
quote based on what they believe the best services or
how they can look good. That's one of the reasons
why I think there's all this geo political stuff that's
going around and all these different things really help the
freight forwarder because it will help decommoditize them and really
(07:15):
show value that they understand different routes, They understand how
to move the freight, they understand the regulations or regulatorial
side of it, and they can actually support their customers
in a manner other than Hong Kong to Seattle or
Hong Kong to or wherever to Long Beach, which those
routes are somewhat established for the last fifteen to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
One thing you mentioned a moment ago was that you know,
when you're looking at air freight, it's because you don't
have the time to wait for ocean cargo. Is that
always the case, that it's something that is a time
of the essence, or there are other reasons why smaller
companies would choose air freight over another.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, so I think you know a lot of people
are miss misunderstand air freight as a kind of oh moment, right, like, hey,
manufacturing is down or whatever, and they want to pay more. Right,
It's only it's kind of funny. It's like air freight
is only one percent of global trade, right if you're
by volume, right, Obviously most of its ocean. But there's
lots of different reasons why someone move air freight could
(08:21):
be security, could be speed, could be they can't do
the condensation and an ocean container, you know. Or it
could be just that the production can't keep up and
so and there's enough margin in it to movia air
versus ocean.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You look at like an iPhone or a lot of
medical devices automotive where just in time becomes you know,
and I don't I don't pretend to understand all the
reasons why, but like I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
We move, we move corrugated.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
For one of our customers has moves corrugated out of
the Midwest to India every week, a couple of times
a week. And obviously it's it's not just plaining corrugated, right,
there's obviously it's coded with something, and it's for the
medical industry, right of some sort. And and so for
whatever reason the cost of manufacturing in America and flying
(09:16):
it to India is more cost effective or whatever reason,
they do it. So it's not a moment, it's more
of by design in most cases. And another thing I
think most people don't understand or or don't think about,
is most of the cargo globally has moved.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
On passion aircrafts.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Right, it's not ups FedEx or cargo only aircraft. Most
of it is in the belly of a passion air aircraft,
which becomes gravy for the in essence, really comes gravy
for the airline because they're making most of their money
on the passenger side of it. But it also makes
it more difficult because there's not a lot of ride
(09:58):
share agreements, if you will, for cargo like they do
for passengers, because it's just it's just not set up
that way today.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Right right now, that makes sense. So where has captain
cargo air con been able to make like a significant difference.
Can you tell us a case study or an example
of you know where it changed the way your your
clients saw air freight.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, so the consolidation part is is relatively easy. We
have customers that we use Dallas to London a lot.
We're based out of Dallas, So Dallas to London London
is twenty nine percent of all US exports goes to
London as the first stop. That's also why the data
is not a very good in our industry. But we
(10:47):
have we have three or four freight foards that ship
out of Dallas every week every Thursday. They were paying
let's say a dollar for ease a math We're able
to buy at roughly the same price from the air line,
But by combining these three or four preakporters, I'm able
to offer them between let's say eighty cents to seventy
five eighty cents a kilo, and I'm still making you know,
(11:11):
ten to fifteen percent on top of that, So it's
a win for everybody involved. In addition to the just
the rate, you're less likely to get bumped from the
airline because obviously if put baggage baggages are bags whatever,
fill up the plane, they're gonna they're more likely to
remove a carton or a palette versus a ULD. There's
(11:34):
less damage to you to your product, which allows you
to be more predictable on your transit time.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, So if you are sensitive to.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I got to be there in four days, you have
a much higher chance of doing that through a ULD
build or through consolidation, and.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So we've done that.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
We have two big lanes that we do is JFK
to Indy and Dallas to London are the two biggest
lanes that we do to and it's.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Working at scale.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So that really is leveling this playing field for those
those smaller businesses to give them the ability to play
against the larger players in their industries.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, And it's one of those things where
if you think of, you know, these these big large
freight forwarders that continue to buy you know, you think
of like shanker dsv couganaugu Apex, Expediters, pick one out
of her that you know of, CIVA every time that
they buy a or try to consolidate these freight forwarders
(12:36):
into one. There's five to ten other freight forwarders that
that pop up right, and they call them logistics companies
or whatever, but we believe it's because people do business
with people right and in logistics, as we all know,
things happen right, things missed the flight, things.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, flat tire, whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
So you want to have the ability to call someone
and get answers to with solution to your problem, right,
either you're manufacturing your customer whatever, you want to be
able to have an answer versus, hey, my freight's in London,
it's stuck in the ba's automated where else and it's
lost and it's going to be lost for six to
twelve months.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
But I know it's in London.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
That I laugh because that makes me think of you know,
advice that has recently been started given to marketing. So
when we're when we're forwarding our freight for trade shows
and things, one of one of the new industry standards
is to get some air tags and pop an air
tag on the side of your carton or you know,
(13:42):
tuck it inside so that you can find it, because
they get lost so often, they get misplaced in the
warehouse and you want to be able to find it.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
No, it's very very true. It's extremely true. And what's
funny about that is is people it's kind of like
insurance on air freight. We're on cargoing generally, right, it's
pretty cheap, right, It's if you really think about it's like,
why want someone spend you know, ten cents per hundred
or twenty cents per hundred whatever the cost is for
when they're shipping million dollars worth of product and realize,
(14:14):
particularly in ocean, stuff goes in the ocean all the time. Yeah,
and it's like for pennies, you can ensure that and
become whole. But we're so focused on that transaction of
that particular container, that particular cost, and the companies are siloed, right,
So a lot of times the logistics people in a
company aren't the same or aren't bonused, or aren't measured
(14:36):
the same as the marketing side or the you know
whatever the silo is, and it gets misaligned very quickly,
right in terms of what's best for the company versus
what's best for the individual.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
All right, so what about disruptions. So we've we've talked
a little bit about you know, lost cargo, but when
other disruptions are affecting the supply chain in general, what
agility does this enable for those those smaller companies.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
That's a great point and something that is very difficult
for me to articulate, but I'm gonna try.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
So. Really it's about knowledge of what's out there.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Right, So these small to medium sized right forwarders may
have a great network from US to the EU or
US to the Middle East or whatever, but they don't
necessarily have a global network.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So air con is really the backstop to that.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
From our platform, marketplace consolidation standpoint is the backstop so
you can provide a solution to your customer in real time.
So like we can give you a door to door
quote quote anywhere to anywhere in the world and less
than a minute at a competitive wholesale rate. Right, So
now you can compete at scale if you get the
(15:50):
business and then when the customer books it, we do
that that logic and our tech again, so again taking
that Milwaukee standpoint is if we have to have it
by a certain date, we're going to give you the
probability and predictability of through Chicago and through Cincinnati and
let your customer decide what the best solution is. Another
(16:11):
scenario that we've done is you think of like a
UPS airline, which everybody knows parcel takes priority over cargo
for UPS. Right, it's everybody knows it, and you just
kind of understand it. Right, it's going to take you
between five and ten days to get it to London,
for example, or to buy and that might be okay
(16:31):
for your customer because it's you know, it's twenty five
percent of the cost of Cutter or American And so
giving these solutions to the people that are actually buying
the service allows you to provide a better service to
your customer and to keep your customer inside your four
walls versus looking somewhere else. About fifty percent of our
(16:52):
customers are actually truckers or brokers of truckers, which is.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Kind of interesting to me. And they really, they.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Might only do one percent of their volume is air free,
but they don't want their customer to go from a
you know, trucker a to a forwarder because maybe that
forder also does trucking, right, So the more you can
keep your fingers on them, the better. And that's what
we're really trying to do is one we have a
global network, a wholesale no retail forwarders, no retail truckers,
(17:20):
all on a wholesale level, which again allows you to
think bigger versus the network that you have built well.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And one thing I want to ask, just because we
dealt with it this spring, all these storms that have
come through, some massive storms, big ones that you know,
we're significant tornadoes across the Midwest, what happens when is
it that agile where someone had already planned something, now
(17:51):
they've we've got all this disruption there, planes grounded, flights
aren't flying. How agile can it be when the weather is.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
So you know, we haven't built this yet, but it
is on our product road map. It's really our third
AI agent that we're building, which will be we're not
really sure what to call it yet or visibility agent,
exception management, whatever you want to call it. And so
the scenario that we talk about internally is and and
I'll and I'll bring it back to the weather part
(18:22):
of it is, let's say you're shipping something to joe Berg, right,
and you're going Chicago, London, London, joe Burg on Virgin
air Lines and it misses the flight for whatever reason
from London to joe Burg, and Virgin Airline only has
two flights a week. This happens at midnight our time.
(18:44):
Our agent will either rebook it, depending on your urgency,
on another carrier, right, so we either pull it out
of there and put it on another carrier, or we'll
we'll rebook it for that next one, depending on the requirement.
So but what the thought process is is that we
will in real time identify and take action while you're sleeping, right,
(19:08):
so you have a solution or at least an you
know what the problem is and you know what the
possible solutions are. When you're coming in the morning or
to your customers. So it's not a matter of eight o'clock,
where's my shaming? Oh it didn't make that flight last night.
When's the next schedule?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Right?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
What are the other airlines that go London to Joeber
what are the you know like again right, exactly right,
So we are AI agent through air con. Well, then
I'll give you those solutions, okay, same as is. Or hey,
you want to rebook it. It's going to cost you
a ten x or five x whatever the cost is,
(19:47):
and now you can make.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That decision what's best for you as the buyer.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Because maybe again you're using the ups scenario, maybe you
don't need it tomorrow, you need it this week or
next week, and that next flight is okay, yeah, right,
So it's all about giving power to where the power
of elite belongs in my opinion, and letting the freight
forwarder become relevant again in terms of their knowledge, in
(20:11):
terms of the rigs and know those things and really
provide service over rate, which is what I think we're
gonna we'll see in the next year to eighteen months.
You saw it during COVID, uh to be fair, right,
you know when when the capacity shrunk and you know
people weren't flying.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It wasn't about the raid. It was about getting capacity,
it was about routes. It was about these things.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And if you didn't make money during COVID and logistics,
you probably shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Be in the space, you know what.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
As disastrous as it was for the world, it was
great for our industry.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
It's funny as I talked to some freight forwarders that
started or logistics companies that started during that time, and
they really started for ocean, right, And it's funny because they, well,
we don't understand why we're not making money. Well, ten
percent on thirty thousand is dollar. Ten percent on one thousand,
you probably need to have other service offerings.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Right, That's not all that much, right, It's just reality, right.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
It absolutely is. So that brings us to the end
of this episode. Thank you so much, Chris for the
introduction to this amazing new tool that you have and
this opportunity for some of these smaller and medium sized
businesses to capitalize on the agility that is available to
(21:33):
the larger players in the market. You've really opened a
door for these organizations to really up their supply chain game.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate the fact that
you can see that vision as well, because it's we
think it's important.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It very much is. The little guys need all the
help they can get.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I agreed, I agreed.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
If our listeners out there have a suggestion for a
topic or would like to be a guest on the show,
we would love to hear from you. You can reach
out at podcast at meboch dot com at any time.
As always, thanks for listening to Speaking of Supply Chain.
If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review us
on whichever podcast platform you prefer. We're on Apple Podcasts,
(22:15):
Amazon Music, and Spotify. Be sure to tune in next time.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Meeboch Consulting is one of the largest and most globally
recognized supply chain consulting, engineering, and advisory firms. For nearly
fifty years, we've helped clients achieve supply chain excellence and
sustainable competitive advantage across the entire spectrum of the supply
chain by delivering improvements and innovation strategically, tactically, and digitally.
(22:45):
To learn more, visit meeboch dot com. You've been listening
to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast, Keep connected
with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite
podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please rate
the show that helps us to keep delivering the latest
in supply chain information. Thanks for listening until next time.
(23:15):
You've been listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest in supply chain information. Thanks for listening, until
next time.
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