November 4, 2025 • 47 mins
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Effie and Dave learn what a sensual thing an apology can be – and that if you drink too much ya might turn green, maman! Or your drink might, anyway. As we continue our rewatch/first-watch of The Original Series, we find ourselves face-to-face with the Kelvans, desperate to make it back home to their Andromeda galaxy -- but becoming human comes with weaknesses, maman! We're talking Star Trek 2x21, “By Any Other Name.”
🎙 Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek The Original Series 2×21 – “By Any Other Name”
👥 Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler.
🖖 Listen & Subscribe:
🌐 StarTrekUcast.com
🍎 Apple Podcasts
🎧 Spotify
📡 Spreaker
✍️ David C. Roberson’s Newsletter
🎙 Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek The Original Series 2×21 – “By Any Other Name”
👥 Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler.
🖖 Listen & Subscribe:
🌐 StarTrekUcast.com
🍎 Apple Podcasts
🎧 Spotify
📡 Spreaker
✍️ David C. Roberson’s Newsletter
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Had this episode of Star Trek Universe FA and I
learn what a sensual thing an apology can be.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Man, I've been apologizing to my girlfriend all day, and.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We learned that if you drink too much, you might
turn green, or really your drink might We're talking Star
Trek two twenty one by any other name, right these
mysterious injections by your friendly neighborhood physician. Welcome into Star
(00:36):
Trek Universe. This is, of course, an episode of our
classic Trek Watch rewatch. I'm David c. Robertson. I have
watched all of this countless times before.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I am f el Pelers, and I have seen this
for the first time, which was an experience very akin
to being human. I had emotions and stuff. Oh watching
this really.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, yeah it must have been intense. Yeah it sounds
sounds like it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah. The willfully inadequate memory Alpha Synopsis Extra Galactic being Aliens.
I can't even get it right. Hijack the Enterprise had
turned the crew into inert solids, leaving the four senior
officers on their own to exploit their captors weaknesses.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure that is technically true, that's what happened. It is
what happened.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, how do you feel about this episode, Effie?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It was it was fun. It's a it's a very
overt exploration of the human condition, but it was a
fun sort of again the landing. By the end, it's
resolved pretty damn quickly. Yeah, which which sort of fell flat.
But other than that, the build up, like the uh,
(02:01):
the villains are in that sense, they are intimidating. They
are clearly overpowering the enterprise very easily. We have a
hot guest star with the dress code for these aliens
is interesting to say the least. I mean, the captain
(02:22):
gets a coverall, but everyone else no, no, no, you
get in an interesting suit. But uh yeah, no, it's
it's it's, it's, it's it. It tries to throw some
Shakespeare in there to you know, get get us on board.
But yeah, this is one I I I I I
(02:42):
I enjoyed this more more than the last one at least,
Like it's it's it's a bit amy, but there's there's
some fun to it, and it's like when it's funny,
it's it's actually kind of funny, you know, the drinking scene,
it's it's actually kind of fun. The the Shatner getting
to play on the we will the woman's wilds. It
(03:04):
is very much like, oh you're you're you're a human woman,
now you're you must be horny. It is we will
solve this issue.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So, yeah, I won't deny that women are treated somewhat
poorly in this In this episode, you know, the first
woman we meet who was the yeoman killed immediately which
they fucked don't remember who they fucked themselves over because
they go down and they're like, Okay, this time, we're
(03:33):
gonna have two red shirts. One is a white lady,
one is a black guy, and one of them is
gonna have to die. Neither is the correct choice.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Nobody will be happy about this.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely, no one is gonna be happy about this
in any version of the future.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Exactly, it would have been wrong either way, like the
other way around would have also.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So now as far as Calinda, which damn, just put
that out.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Now if they can help, but agree, God damn.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
The thing about her character and it's not just it's
not just that, yeah, she's a pawn, but and she's
you know, apprised to be won.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
She is very much a young thing gonna belong to
the stronger captain, I guess and I was here first
sight this, this old fart should get her. It is
very much Here's what I like though.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Here's what I like about it. It's not just that
he's playing on her emotions because stupid woman. No, I
mean he is. He is playing on everyone's emotions, specifically
her emotions and ro Jan's emotions.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But at the same time, I feel like that was
a happy fucking coincidence when she at first rejected him. Yeah,
and then he sort of found out like, oh I
can make Rojion jealous. This will work out because at
first I feel like he's definitely just going for the
you must be horny, let me get rid of you
that way.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah. Well, that's always what Kirk goes to, is can
I seduce my way out of this, whether exactly you know,
tries to do it like with charm, you.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Know, with a man or with gangster charm as we
saw last time. Yeah, it was reasonable. It was reasonable. No.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
The thing I like about this and this episode has
been accused of being uh you know, uh somewhat. It's
been accused of trying to push the idea of human exceptionalism.
Human exceptionalism and superiority, and I don't really agree. What
(06:09):
how like, oh, well, being human is the thing that
saves us in the end and because we're smarter and
we're better than you. And I'm like, I've never understood
that argument because it is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Very clearly an episode poking fun at all of our flaws.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Clearly going in there like, oh, they are weaker now
because they have taken our shape. They've gone from superior
beings to oh, we know how to manipulate people and
there they don't have those defenses up yet because they
don't know what the fuck is going on with em
a drunkard or a horny ass or whatever the problem is.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there are all these no, yeah, there's all these
human pitfalls that we have, some of us. One would
hope the humans of the twenty third century will have
more figured out how to get around.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But I mean, Scott still has a drinking cabinet that
you should you should use proper respect.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Right right now. But you know, that's one of the
things I really like, is like sometimes our weaknesses are
our strengths, and knowing what our weaknesses are and like,
oh shit, they're human now, that's there they're succumbing to
this stuff. Like I really love that as a way
of getting through. And I love that whole scene where
(07:30):
Rojan is fighting Curt and Kirka is like, just press
the button on your belt. Why why are you fighting
me with your hands, ro Jane? Why are you fighting
in your hands?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like yeah, Dick, yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Why why is this is? This is your emotion, this
is humanity fucking with you.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I loved all of that. I love all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Good ship.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah. This episode has been criticized a lot by the
fandom for being very totally uneven, uh, starting off with
you know, somewhat brutal murder.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I suppose so, yeah, but then again.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And then the last half of it in the.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
C every time there's a red shirt like come.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
On, but you know, and then like by the end
of it, it's just a farce, and Kirk is like,
we're gonna help you, Like, we're gonna set you up
as friends. You don't have to be conquerors. Your human
ness went quick by the time you get But my
here's my argument, though, what the fuck else are you
gonna do? Like you gotta be accommodating as fun because
(08:33):
they could just be like, oh, well, shit, you're just
gonna be shitty. I'm just gonna piste hit my little
fucking button again and we're back right back where we
started from, so I know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But they're they're very quick to accept friends. Oh, this
was an option all along, which is convenient in how
fast it happens. But that's about it. Yeah, you you
have already written them to be way out of your
league in terms of powers and strength and technology, like
you don't know how to get out of this any
(09:01):
other way, but it worked out.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah, and I I think it's interesting. I mean,
you're gonna be compromised when you go from being some
powerhouse alien who doesn't have emotions to all of a
sudden being.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Assaulted by your senses and and your you're absolutely neurons
firing about every single weird ass emotion we we get
to have in a single day.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
God, what a privilege to be human.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But uh so, yeah, that's that's kind of what I
like about it, is like the overun Yeah, the overwhelming
uh sensory of it all of being human and what
it means and how it breaks these motherfuckers down and
stops an.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh, this is this is neat. I can actually taste ship.
This is enjoyable and experiencing pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, you know, so for.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The record, speak of pleasure. I do like that she
rejects him at first and then sort of, you know,
let's its simmer for a bit and asks about it
again because it's like, but that was nice? Can you
can you try it? Can we try it?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Can't you apologize to me again? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, delightful.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I think it's funny that Scotty gets what gets one
of the Kelvins drunk and does not succeed in his
mission because he also passes out.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, yeah, he was close. He got close to that door.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
McCoy only succeeds in his mission of giving irritance to
this Calvin just to get him off the bridge and
get him out of the way, because he made him
angry enough that roe J was like, what the fuck
are your room? What the hell's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, come on, behave.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And lady on the bridge. She just got to be
lady on the bridge. Nothing even happened to her. She
just like turned around.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, she just oh rogent new orders. I guess
we're friends now, Yeah? Why are we friends with these
weak beings.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I don't know, but I will say that it wasn't
just like emotion either. It was like Kirk made like
a really good argument to Roe Janry was just like,
you are a link in a chain that goes back
three hundred years. By the time you get back to
your fucking galaxy, you will be going this is this
is what happened in a week. What do you think
(11:33):
is gonna happen at three hundred years? The crew that
gets there will not be Kelvin.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
They'll be You'll be human. Yeah, and you might as
well work with us from the get go, because.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, I loved all of that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
That one was was a lot stronger than the whole
because intergenerational ships are a mess of of their own,
Like it makes it makes sense that you'd have to
do it, but it would it wouldn't fucking work because
of all the human interactions that would fuck it up. Yeah,
but that that was a better argument than just the
(12:11):
well we might as well not get killed please. But yeah, yeah, No,
that that was strong, and I think, yeah, it starts
off perhaps a bit more serious because you have to
establish them as being far more powerful. But at the
same time, man if you're if you're crumbling a sand
(12:34):
dice in your hand. It it kind of takes away
from the seriousness. It's like, yeah, it's it's technically brutal murder,
but also it's another red shirt we don't know. Eh, yeah,
I don't feel it's much worse than when they just
get phaser to death or something or a gasous cloud
(12:56):
comes and chokes them out, Like yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I felt like I got a little bit of her personality.
I felt bad.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, I felt oh no, absolutely, there was enough of
it where you do care and like she don't care
to such an extent that it's suddenly like and now
they're having a drink.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Here here, here's the dire to me.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Still.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Here was something that was thought I thought was funny,
is that you know, all these episodes we've seen, you know,
if I really wants to complain that women weren't done
well in this episode, Uh, that is the most emotion
I think I've ever seen out of Kirk over some
one of his crew members dying.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Absolutely, yeah, she got she gotta send off in that way. Yeah. Yeah,
he actually gave a ship. Yeah, dare you?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it was like you killed one of our vaginas.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
No, we only have twenty for the four hundred men
up there. I hope not, but.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Four hundred men erect throbbing, waiting, hoping for consent.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
They knew that word back then, especially when interacting with
hot aliens. I guess.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I mean, hey, you remember the one of the first
episodes Charlie X where Charlie likes Yo Marian.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You got to learn not to just grab him like that.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That's yeah, yeah, Like there are a million things you
can have and a million things can't. Hm.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Your daddy should have told you this. Yeah, that's fair.
They knew some of it. Rape was a bit too far.
But if you make out with them once, just to
let them have a taste, they'll come back asking for more,
because that's just how it works.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, if you're curt, if you're correctly Riley singing fucking
Irish hymns or some ship like, that's not gonna work.
Nobody ever liked him.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, Okay, that's that's fair.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You gotta be swagger Stagger in the captain's chair, that's
what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You gotta have that position of power for for the
young blonde to be intimidated by it. I guess, I guess.
So we're not gonna dwell on age gaps again. But
Jesus Christ, how many decades between her and her captain? Uh?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh, captain, my captain.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean it is it is fun to have her,
you know, asked to be apologized Toling. Yeah, I get it,
I get it. It must have been must have been
a good day to shoot, but probably more so for
him than for her.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Oh, I don't know, you know those one of the
interesting things. Yeah, it's one of the interesting things. Or
like you would watch the like you just so many
interviews and stuff with different people who were on those shows,
and you know, some of them like uh woman who Collins, uh,
who played Edith Keeler. But she was like, oh yeah,
(16:16):
Shatner was so so attractive and everything. I couldn't wait
to meet him. And then like I got there and
he was like this little short, bald, fat guy and
they like and put lips in the shoes and put
a So you had that, but then you also had
like you'd have interviews with with some of the women
who would just be like, oh, I was so excited,
I couldn't wait. No, it was great it was great.
(16:37):
I got to make up with Bill Shatner. He was
handsome then he's handsome now like, okay, we'll do you
okay whatever. Yeah. By the way, apparently Shatner did not
like it, and this is the thing kiss women right right,
Apparently he didn't. He didn't care for it. He was
annoyed that they kept kind of putting that in which
(16:57):
they didn't even really it was like eighteen episodes out
of seventy nine.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, I wasn't every.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It was. Yeah, it was just a thing that he
was not. He felt uncomfortable. He was married.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know that's fair. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, he was married.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
He looked like he's enjoying it anyway. He very much
pulls the emotion out of his arms, trying to grab
on to the other person and convey some sort of
passion that isn't there.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
The most passion he ever had was Roger. He kissed
that woman in the Gamesters. They just socked her the
fucking face. He was like, you know how much my
wife is going to be mad at me at home?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Sock passion.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I've got kids, I've got a wife. She's mad
at me all the time. Because I'm always doing this shit.
I always I spend like sixteen hour days making Star Trek.
I get home, she and the kids have seen I had.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
To make out for twenty takes again.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And she sees me on TV shirtless making it out
with some girl in a bikini.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, I'm basically yeah, oh poor woman. I'm sure he
could relate to Rohan's jealousy in that moment, the feeling
of getting strangled with someone's bare hands.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I mean, I don't know what they were into.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, who knows?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Swing in sixties?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Man, who knows? Like I said before, this one also
obviously produced during the genel Koon John Meredith Lucas transitioned
and rushed due to NBC's very very late order for
more episodes.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So there there's that. But you know, I thought this
one actually pretty worked pretty well for it.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, this is this is not towards the bottom at all.
This is a solid upper middle. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It does this. It does a Star Trek thing where
they they hinted something real fucking.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Real interesting and then they just like.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Stick like the tip of their dick into it and
then pull out and go that's all you get. Yeah, yeah,
and guess what, you will never see those fucking Calvin's again.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
No, don't need them. They are, but they're they're they're interesting,
and you know, it is very I guess that relates
to the alleged tonal uh discrepancy, where is just we
We're going into this high concept, fucking scary ass aliens
who can pretty much do whatever they want with us. Yeah,
(19:35):
how do we defeat them? I guess we gotta do
something silly, man. We gotta just just have some booze
and and booze and women and jealousy and you know,
the three main characteristics of humans warnings and misplaced horniness
for other other people's horniness and and getting warny for
(19:56):
more drinks. I guess it's it's a lot of hornings.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I have I have a strange take. I think
Calinda was horny for herself.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Good for her, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Because every time we see Calinda when she's not interacting
with Kirk or Rojan, she's just like staring in a
mirror and brushing her hair and smiling like, yes, oh, yes,
I shall do what. I think she was just all
about her own like sexuality, and.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
She probably enjoyed some of that that power she had
over and Jane to be uh, to get to tell
him no, and and you know, sort of toy with that.
There is a yeah, I'm sure she discovered masturbation at
some point throughout this episode off screen.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh absolutely. And I do love how I do love
how they take this powerful commander Rojan and turned him
like the infant, helles him completely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, he's immediately a teenage boy best and he's I love.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like him playing chess with Spock, and Spock is like,
you are some jealousy and he's like, no.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Fuck you, I'm not. You're jealous.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Don't care what she does. Where was she?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Are you sure she's at home? Are you sure she's
not in bed with Kirk?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
She was, No, she was with Captain Kirk what I
told her not to with him?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How dare she?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I am her captain?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Like yes, right, yeah, that's how romance works. Yeah, I
am the boss of you. You shall not fuck with
these teenage boys, as I am.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Your father and your daddy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
In this case.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So one of the one of the most FAMO miss
bits from this episode is the point where Uh, Tomar
and Scott are so drunk and Tomar asks what is
it and Scott he says, well, it's ah. Look he's
he's looking at him smelling it. It's green.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Mm hmm. That's all you need to know. Sometimes it's
strong stuff for a long while. For for a newbie drinker,
he must have one outstanding liver.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, you would think he was a big boy. And
that's a big boy.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
That's how big boy. Who's a big boy.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
But yeah, they make a reference to that later on,
much later on and start nice in next generation. So
that's uh, I look forward to this more.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, exactly, and I'll be like, right, the one with
the booze. Yeah, bring booze absinthe, but space absinthe.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Let's see what we got. What we got? I don't know.
I don't feel like it was like yeah, you know,
it wasn't the most messaging.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, no, not necessarily. There's just the point of exploitable
human emotions and flaws. I guess it's it's there's no
nothing really deeper. There's just the oh you you changed
your your your physical shape. So now you have to
deal with the consequences of being in our shared reality
(23:53):
of how how existence works for for with our senses
and our emotions, But I don't. That's that's why I
kind of rolled my eyes when the Shakespeare thing came in,
and I'm like, yeah, I guess it's there to explain
the title. That's about it. Like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
(24:16):
it doesn't add much depth beyond well, we referenced an old,
old English writer. Yeah, yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think it would have been weird in some regard
to go back and deal with Thompson's death at the
end of the episode. Yeah, especially since there was like
that tonal shift.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, Like you couldn't have a like you can do
that within the episode when it already felt real quickly
resolved at the end after trying to kill Kirk with
his bare hands.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to
burial after that. No Red Shirts get much of a
eulogy from Kirk anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right, by the way, do you think that's like that
that murder is forgiven to too easily?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
No, I think as an audience you are also put
in the position of more or less forgetting it. But
it was it was also just a demonstration of strength
where I f you're like, yeah, it was one or
the other, and they didn't particularly care which one. Yeah,
and there is no option to be like, okay, now
(25:33):
that we're friends, you dick, you killed one of my people.
Like that's unwise. I yea within the stories context, I
don't think it's forgiven. I just think there's nothing to be.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Done, right. I think there's no way out on that one.
And also like there's there is something I think that
you know a lot of people don't understand in our
world is that sometimes you have to like forgive and
(26:06):
forget a little bit, because especially when you're seeing like
these these people here, like the Kelvins, they were freshly human.
They had no concept of what how we felt. Yeah,
Like they were like, we are following through on our orders.
(26:26):
We are this kind of species. We conquer, we take
everything down. This is what we and by the end
of it they are completely different people.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
M that's kind of the point. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, So it's like you don't want to see them
like go through this arc and become humans and go like,
oh shit, here are all these new sensations and feelings
and things we should feel bad for.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Now, what would have been interesting, yeah, is to have
Rojan feel shame.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Right right to have some regret from that side would
have made a difference, I feel in to those particular
fans who were felt felt that was too easily passed
on from but it's I don't think it's. It wouldn't
also have been fair to still principally be like, but
(27:22):
you were dicks before, and now that you're very different beings,
we're still gonna hold you accountable for your I was
just following orders. I guess this is a bad excuse,
but still it's It has that air of, you know,
we're not gonna squabble over that one life. It is
not that kind of a dramatic episode where the one
(27:44):
life really fucking mattered. It's not Kirk is. Kirk is
not gonna spend ten years to plan his obsessive revenge
against this cloud. Like no, some people died, but not
not that many in the in the grand scheme of things,
it sucks. Happens quite often.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think it would have been interesting to have a
scene where like Kirk is looking for ro Jann and
he's like ask the computer or whoever, like where is
ro Jan? And maybe ro Jane is in Thompson's quarters,
and he's like Thompson's quarters, and he goes down to
Thompson's quarters and Rojan is there like observing all of
all of the all of who this person may yeah squashed. Yeah, yeah,
(28:23):
like that would have been really cool.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
That would have been a good scene you could have
had him. And maybe that's what shame and regret And
why do I feel the weight of this life on my.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Shoulders instead of it just being.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Straight to jealousy? Yeah exactly, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Like I just want to hear that apart.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That's a sophisticated emotion of course, like you've got to
go primal. It's food, ooze and and banging. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, if there were an epilogue, then he then he
would have been like and now I feel guilt now
that I've now that I've emptied my new nutsack.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
For being a mean a bad friend and conquering made
me a meanie.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah. I drained my balls into Klinda earlier this morning,
and then I felt shame. And it took me a minute,
but I figured out it was over this human Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, I thought it was post Nott clarity and you know,
all the horrible sex X we hadn't committed just prior,
but no, it was actually shame over killing this full
person with a life and loved ones of her own.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
First I was thinking, Hey, she was pretty hot, and
then I felt bad because I killed her.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
That's worse.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I love that I only had sex with Klinda five
times before I started imagining other women. Is that normal?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yes, quite normal? Quite normal? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh awful, But yeah, it's it's fair, it is. It
is also true that the the dead girl was absolutely
like could have been very pretty in any other episode
if she weren't out shown immediately by the fact that
we had fucking Kalinda over there. Yeah, that's just unfair competition. Really,
(30:22):
you gotta kill one of them off, apparently, because otherwise
it's just it's too much.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Man. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta sometimes you got it.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
How did we get here?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
We always do?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
All right, Well we can move on, uh the way
the way Nieme Whye delivered that line. The whole a
series of bizarre and exotic images bursting on my mind
and consciousness. Colors, shapes, mathematical equations, fused and blurred. I've
been attempting to isolate them, but so far I've been
(31:01):
able to recall clearly only one immense beings one hundred
limbs which resemble tentacles, minds of such control and capacity
that each limb is capable of performing a different function.
Kind of fucking love crafty and bullshit of these calvins, Like.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yep, eh, that's that's fucked up, but it's it's it's
scary and huge. And also I feel like if there's
such a conquering race, god damn, how much of the
galaxy is under their control already? Like how many other
places have they invaded?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah? Or is it just this one like little sleeper
ship that.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Maybe they're the ones laughed? Yeah, they're just generations beyond
when they were that that important.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
But well, you know when they came from an all,
they came from another galaxy, the Andromeda, and they did
say that their ship was destroyed coming through the galactic barrier, right, Yeah,
so I don't know, are they the only ones? I
guess so, because we never hear from him.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Again exactly the only ones except for the ones in
the Adromeda galaxy, I suppose. But yeah, they seem to
be doing fine, not not coming over.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So right, I mean, at this point they made that
that they said that they fled here because the Andromeda
Galaxy was or their home was gonna was being destroyed
or something.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Oh by what?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
H I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
They're they're they're fine. They're all humans now, like Kirk
is like making out with Glenda, going like a hundred limbs,
each with its own function.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
M all of them pleasurable. Yeah, three are in my ass,
that's the same function.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Come on, now, they're each performing a different function in
my ass.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But yes, that was a good line.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
One of the tentacles is shoving a triple A battery
up my dickle.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That is a good line. I'm glad you at least
feel shame.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oh I don't. Oh, I don't. I only feel.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you. I wish I wish I had.
I wish people sent me footage of themselves turning off
my podcast to discust.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, yeah, that those would be good, good facial responses
to to really get to see what it does to
people hearing it for the first time.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah you great, Oh well.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Sending in your pictures if you're still listening.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I like this because they hatched this whole plan to
destroy the enterprise to open those vents and and let
the galactic barrier destroy it. And uh and roe Jan's like,
do you not agree that this is a better thing
for them than exploding the ship as your engineer had
thought to do. We detected it. Of course Tomar has
(34:22):
devised a mechanism to prevent any further tampering. I just
love that they were ahead of Kirk and Scotty.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, like it wouldn't have worked come on now.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But it's like a got a badass that there was, like, no,
we're gonna blow up the ship.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's yeah, Yeah, it is cool that they were immediately
ready to actually go nuclear in that sense, like have
the full the option of just let's come and cause
it as ship. We don't want this entering any other galaxy.
Let's let's fuck off, all right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Uh. Story outline by Jerome Bixby just on the face
of it, right out of the right, out of the box.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Then we had a revised second draft by DC Fontana.
I know that name, Yeah, yeah, you do, and then
additional page revisions by John Meredith Lucas, which you know,
it has been pointed out that John Meredith Lucas leaves
by the end of the second season, right, he barely
(35:30):
gets any way, We don't really.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Know what he would have done on his own.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Really done. Yeah, Like he comes in and he's a
patch and then he's gone.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So the title and part of a is part of
a quotation from Romeo and Juliet, Act two, Scene two.
Wasn't a name that which we can that's sorry, that
which we call a rose by any other name would
smell as sweet, Kirk recides it to Clint. It is
often used to convey the idea that although you could
change the name of something, it's nature will remain the same.
(36:05):
In this case, the Kelvins become human, and in doing so,
they start behaving as humans.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Do I feel like that explanation still still rings a
bit for me where I'm like, eh, this is not
quite still yeah, yeah, I forget the exact context in
which Kirk even brings it up, but like, if the
(36:34):
Kelvins become human, like the way this sentence is constructed,
it would appear that the Kelvins do not retain their
nature despite changing names, basically, which is the opposite. But
so you'd have to sort of reconstruct the statement to
be like no, no, no, they're humans who think of
(36:56):
themselves as Kelvins, but they're still humans, right, which.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
It's there, But I think you should have been called
the apology trap.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
The apology just period. That's the center of the drama
we came for.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, or kissing Kelvin's.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I mean, alliteration is always a good solution to any problem, right.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Uh. The basic sorry, the basis of this episode can
be found in Gene ron Berry's first ever produced science
fiction script, The Secret Weapon of one point seventeen for
Chevron Hall Stars in nineteen fifty six. The episode featured
a pair of aliens, the male played by Ricardo Montalban,
who disguised themselves as humans to study Earth people, but
(37:49):
become overwhelmed by the sensations and experiences of their new
host bodies and decide to remain human.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Huh, sometimes you got to rework some of your old material.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, let's see. In the Star Trek interview book, Jerome
Bixby told Alan Asherman that he originally wrote the episode
in a rather more serious vein, but that in depicting
the potential end of the human race at the hands
of the Kelvins, he failed to heat Producer Gene Roddenberry's
warning to avoid getting wrapped up and quote the immensity
(38:20):
of it all. As a result, DC Fontana rewrote the
script as a more lightweight episode.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Dad damn it, don't get wrapped up in the immensity
of it That would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah maybe maybe, maybe I know how it went, but yeah,
it might be eye rollingly intense, like oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It depends on how sci Fi were getting sure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah. Bixby's original script was much darker than the filmed episode.
The Kelvins, then called the Devinians, executed executed ten Enterprise
crew members by opening the shuttle bayed doors and letting
them get sucked out into pace. Kirk was put through
hellish torture. Also, crew members were chosen to mate with
(39:05):
each other. Kirk was paired with Yoman Leslie Thompson to
eventually she was that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Was the the one that yeah killed.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
She got killed in the very beginning of the episode. Uh,
he's paired with her to eventually breed slaves to the Kelvins.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
That's fucked up.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
NBC objected against all of this. Fine, like that's what
Ryan Berry meant by don't get into the immensity of
it all. Uh, it's like, Jerome, I know you you're
gonna go a little dark on this one.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, yeah, And still like it must have been hard
to shoot at the time, shuttle doors opening and everyone
flowing out. Yeah, Like, that's not easy, man, Relax, So
turn them into cubes.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Genu had to order a heavy rewrite on the material.
The production staff also deemed the mating aspect too similar
to the cage. According to David Gerald, the writers could
not figure out how the Kelvins would eliminate the crew.
While in Rodenberry's office, someone spotted a Mexican onyx Dodecca
hedron on his desk and suggested that they be transformed
(40:22):
into objects of that shape. Dorothy Fontana describes the scene
related by Gerald on these Special Features at Season two
on the Season two DVD. She indicates that she had
given the Dodecca hedgron to Rodberry and that he played
with it while they described their problem, and then ron
Berry made the suggestion that they be transformed into objects
(40:44):
of that shape. It is unknown if the original object
given to Rodberry was an actual Dodecca hedron, but the
propt used in the episode was a fact of the
shape of a h cue bocta hedron.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right right, Yeah, you got there, you got there. Yeah,
Because I was about to say, like, if it's a
do deca heater and it would have been twelve sides,
but this, this is different. Sure, okay, who oh man,
not that I know what a que boc to heater
on is without googling it, so well might have been different,
(41:24):
different shapes and on the sides, I don't remember. It's fine.
It looks spacey.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
This was the only episode lensed by cinematographer Keith Smith,
replacing Jerry Fitterman, who was apparently unavailable for an unknown reason.
Smith was the director of photography on Mission Impossible, filmed
next door. The final scene, you know, I don't. I don't.
I didn't feel like it looked much different.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
No, me, neither fit right in. They did their job.
Everyone showed up on time and went home. And yeah,
it's not a take. It's not a ce pmotography heavy
kind of show where you're like, oh, I'm gonna do
some real weird ship this time. They have their they
have established their ways by now.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah. The final scene in the episode is an optical
of the ship veering to the right to change course
back to the Milky Way Galaxy. Though this optical breakaway
shot was used several times in season two and three,
this is the only time the complete shot is shown
in this entirety, with the left the cell's sphere shaped
cap coming into view briefly before the ship exit. The
(42:30):
frame exits the frame.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Wow, already compared every time that shot showed up. Jesus Christ, Yeah,
I love me some memory Alpha contributors. Jesus. Yeah, I'm
glad I didn't have to look into that.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
George de Kay does not appear in this episode. This
is the tenth secutive episode Yeah in which he is absent,
but he returns to the series in the next episode
to Pretty to be produced. Returned to tomorrow. Huzzah, where's
you going? Passed that because that's a spoiler.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, now we're gonna ignore whatever. I mean, he's he's
coming back. But that's all I need to know. We
get some more Zulu next time. M hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Kirk mentions that an intergalactic voyage by a twenty third
century starship would take quote thousands of years to reach
the Andromeda Galaxy. For the Kelvins, intergalactic travel is a
three century journey in the twenty fourth century as seen
in Next Generations where no one has gone before. Federation
technology has apparently matched that of the Kelvins when it
(43:34):
was when it was discussed that a return trip to
the Milky Way from the Triangulum galaxy would take three
hundred years of maximum war.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Cool And it does make some semblance of sense where
you're like, well, they tried to adapt the fucking engines
in the on the enterprise to so they so the
Federation must have learned something from those adaptations, right, maybe
maybe maybe maybe there was something there they could replicate
to jump start that the next one hundred years of development.
(44:10):
DR and D Department must have had a field day, yeah, like, oh,
these aliens came in trying to conquerors, but they didn't conquerors,
and they did leave us some interesting engines.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
But because they were human, they fucked up the designs
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Ah fuck human error, no.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
No, oh gosh. Direct references to two previous episodes were made.
After ro Jann mentions the galactic barrier, Kirk says, we've
been there. He's like, bitch, you ain't you know you
get nothing on us speaking fuck you, Yeah, we know,
we know that was from where no man has gone before,
(44:48):
and then Spock repeats his analysis of the barrier word
for word, density negative, radiation negative, energy negative. When the
landing party is detained in a cave, Kirk calls their
imprisonment on em and Air seven and Spock's use of
a mind meld to fool the guards in a Taste
of Armount Keedden.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
That that one was clear to me. I didn't quite
remember what happened with the barrier last time, but I
remember the term being a thing before. But it's nice
for them to tie it in. It did feel more
cohesive that way.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
This was This is a fun little bit here in
Charlie X since we mentioned that earlier. Kirk tells Charlie
Evans quote there's no right way to hit a woman. However,
in this episode and in the Gamesters of Triskellion, Kirk
strikes a woman on Glinda. He uses the karate chop
to the neck.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
There's no right way to hit a woman. But if
you're gonna use a karate chop to the neck.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right way to hit a woman. But this, bitches of Calvin.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
I mean, technically, now she's a human woman. You know
you just gotta apologize after your karate chop to the
next right, she'll want that from you, right, oh boy?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
All right? Anything else?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I don't think so. I think I'm good. I had
a good time with this one.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Good good, Yeah, next time on the classic track, watch rewatch.
We learned that being incorporeal can bring much sorrow. So
let's build robot bodies and return to tomorrow. We're talking
Saran and his whole bag of tricks or should I
say ball when we discuss Star Trek two twenty two.
(46:33):
Return to tomorrow. Until then, all the things Joel untrue,
livelong and prosper.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
And uh it's right there on the tip of my tongue. Oh,
eat a dick, people, eat a dick.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Like you know, Calinda? Did we all do? Rojan got
her back to.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
His I'll apologize to my dick.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Now look away, now look back at it. I'll give
it a little chass.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagus
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more, from Matthew Carroll. Check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast, or listen to his music. Just search for
Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
Had this episode of Star Trek Universe FA and I
learn what a sensual thing an apology can be.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Man, I've been apologizing to my girlfriend all day, and.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We learned that if you drink too much, you might
turn green, or really your drink might We're talking Star
Trek two twenty one by any other name, right these
mysterious injections by your friendly neighborhood physician. Welcome into Star
(00:36):
Trek Universe. This is, of course, an episode of our
classic Trek Watch rewatch. I'm David c. Robertson. I have
watched all of this countless times before.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I am f el Pelers, and I have seen this
for the first time, which was an experience very akin
to being human. I had emotions and stuff. Oh watching
this really.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, yeah it must have been intense. Yeah it sounds
sounds like it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah. The willfully inadequate memory Alpha Synopsis Extra Galactic being Aliens.
I can't even get it right. Hijack the Enterprise had
turned the crew into inert solids, leaving the four senior
officers on their own to exploit their captors weaknesses.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure that is technically true, that's what happened. It is
what happened.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, how do you feel about this episode, Effie?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It was it was fun. It's a it's a very
overt exploration of the human condition, but it was a
fun sort of again the landing. By the end, it's
resolved pretty damn quickly. Yeah, which which sort of fell flat.
But other than that, the build up, like the uh,
(02:01):
the villains are in that sense, they are intimidating. They
are clearly overpowering the enterprise very easily. We have a
hot guest star with the dress code for these aliens
is interesting to say the least. I mean, the captain
(02:22):
gets a coverall, but everyone else no, no, no, you
get in an interesting suit. But uh yeah, no, it's
it's it's, it's, it's it. It tries to throw some
Shakespeare in there to you know, get get us on board.
But yeah, this is one I I I I I
(02:42):
I enjoyed this more more than the last one at least,
Like it's it's it's a bit amy, but there's there's
some fun to it, and it's like when it's funny,
it's it's actually kind of funny, you know, the drinking scene,
it's it's actually kind of fun. The the Shatner getting
to play on the we will the woman's wilds. It
(03:04):
is very much like, oh you're you're you're a human woman,
now you're you must be horny. It is we will
solve this issue.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So, yeah, I won't deny that women are treated somewhat
poorly in this In this episode, you know, the first
woman we meet who was the yeoman killed immediately which
they fucked don't remember who they fucked themselves over because
they go down and they're like, Okay, this time, we're
(03:33):
gonna have two red shirts. One is a white lady,
one is a black guy, and one of them is
gonna have to die. Neither is the correct choice.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Nobody will be happy about this.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely, no one is gonna be happy about this
in any version of the future.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Exactly, it would have been wrong either way, like the
other way around would have also.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So now as far as Calinda, which damn, just put
that out.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Now if they can help, but agree, God damn.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
The thing about her character and it's not just it's
not just that, yeah, she's a pawn, but and she's
you know, apprised to be won.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
She is very much a young thing gonna belong to
the stronger captain, I guess and I was here first
sight this, this old fart should get her. It is
very much Here's what I like though.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Here's what I like about it. It's not just that
he's playing on her emotions because stupid woman. No, I
mean he is. He is playing on everyone's emotions, specifically
her emotions and ro Jan's emotions.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But at the same time, I feel like that was
a happy fucking coincidence when she at first rejected him. Yeah,
and then he sort of found out like, oh I
can make Rojion jealous. This will work out because at
first I feel like he's definitely just going for the
you must be horny, let me get rid of you
that way.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah. Well, that's always what Kirk goes to, is can
I seduce my way out of this, whether exactly you know,
tries to do it like with charm, you.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Know, with a man or with gangster charm as we
saw last time. Yeah, it was reasonable. It was reasonable. No.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
The thing I like about this and this episode has
been accused of being uh you know, uh somewhat. It's
been accused of trying to push the idea of human exceptionalism.
Human exceptionalism and superiority, and I don't really agree. What
(06:09):
how like, oh, well, being human is the thing that
saves us in the end and because we're smarter and
we're better than you. And I'm like, I've never understood
that argument because it is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Very clearly an episode poking fun at all of our flaws.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Clearly going in there like, oh, they are weaker now
because they have taken our shape. They've gone from superior
beings to oh, we know how to manipulate people and
there they don't have those defenses up yet because they
don't know what the fuck is going on with em
a drunkard or a horny ass or whatever the problem is.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there are all these no, yeah, there's all these
human pitfalls that we have, some of us. One would
hope the humans of the twenty third century will have
more figured out how to get around.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But I mean, Scott still has a drinking cabinet that
you should you should use proper respect.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Right right now. But you know, that's one of the
things I really like, is like sometimes our weaknesses are
our strengths, and knowing what our weaknesses are and like,
oh shit, they're human now, that's there they're succumbing to
this stuff. Like I really love that as a way
of getting through. And I love that whole scene where
(07:30):
Rojan is fighting Curt and Kirka is like, just press
the button on your belt. Why why are you fighting
me with your hands, ro Jane? Why are you fighting
in your hands?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like yeah, Dick, yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Why why is this is? This is your emotion, this
is humanity fucking with you.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I loved all of that. I love all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Good ship.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah. This episode has been criticized a lot by the
fandom for being very totally uneven, uh, starting off with
you know, somewhat brutal murder.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I suppose so, yeah, but then again.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And then the last half of it in the.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
C every time there's a red shirt like come.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
On, but you know, and then like by the end
of it, it's just a farce, and Kirk is like,
we're gonna help you, Like, we're gonna set you up
as friends. You don't have to be conquerors. Your human
ness went quick by the time you get But my
here's my argument, though, what the fuck else are you
gonna do? Like you gotta be accommodating as fun because
(08:33):
they could just be like, oh, well, shit, you're just
gonna be shitty. I'm just gonna piste hit my little
fucking button again and we're back right back where we
started from, so I know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But they're they're very quick to accept friends. Oh, this
was an option all along, which is convenient in how
fast it happens. But that's about it. Yeah, you you
have already written them to be way out of your
league in terms of powers and strength and technology, like
you don't know how to get out of this any
(09:01):
other way, but it worked out.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah, and I I think it's interesting. I mean,
you're gonna be compromised when you go from being some
powerhouse alien who doesn't have emotions to all of a
sudden being.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Assaulted by your senses and and your you're absolutely neurons
firing about every single weird ass emotion we we get
to have in a single day.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
God, what a privilege to be human.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But uh so, yeah, that's that's kind of what I
like about it, is like the overun Yeah, the overwhelming
uh sensory of it all of being human and what
it means and how it breaks these motherfuckers down and
stops an.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh, this is this is neat. I can actually taste ship.
This is enjoyable and experiencing pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, you know, so for.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The record, speak of pleasure. I do like that she
rejects him at first and then sort of, you know,
let's its simmer for a bit and asks about it
again because it's like, but that was nice? Can you
can you try it? Can we try it?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Can't you apologize to me again? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, delightful.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I think it's funny that Scotty gets what gets one
of the Kelvins drunk and does not succeed in his
mission because he also passes out.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, yeah, he was close. He got close to that door.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
McCoy only succeeds in his mission of giving irritance to
this Calvin just to get him off the bridge and
get him out of the way, because he made him
angry enough that roe J was like, what the fuck
are your room? What the hell's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, come on, behave.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And lady on the bridge. She just got to be
lady on the bridge. Nothing even happened to her. She
just like turned around.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, she just oh rogent new orders. I guess
we're friends now, Yeah? Why are we friends with these
weak beings.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I don't know, but I will say that it wasn't
just like emotion either. It was like Kirk made like
a really good argument to Roe Janry was just like,
you are a link in a chain that goes back
three hundred years. By the time you get back to
your fucking galaxy, you will be going this is this
is what happened in a week. What do you think
(11:33):
is gonna happen at three hundred years? The crew that
gets there will not be Kelvin.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
They'll be You'll be human. Yeah, and you might as
well work with us from the get go, because.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, I loved all of that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
That one was was a lot stronger than the whole
because intergenerational ships are a mess of of their own,
Like it makes it makes sense that you'd have to
do it, but it would it wouldn't fucking work because
of all the human interactions that would fuck it up. Yeah,
but that that was a better argument than just the
(12:11):
well we might as well not get killed please. But yeah, yeah, No,
that that was strong, and I think, yeah, it starts
off perhaps a bit more serious because you have to
establish them as being far more powerful. But at the
same time, man if you're if you're crumbling a sand
(12:34):
dice in your hand. It it kind of takes away
from the seriousness. It's like, yeah, it's it's technically brutal murder,
but also it's another red shirt we don't know. Eh, yeah,
I don't feel it's much worse than when they just
get phaser to death or something or a gasous cloud
(12:56):
comes and chokes them out, Like yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I felt like I got a little bit of her personality.
I felt bad.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, I felt oh no, absolutely, there was enough of
it where you do care and like she don't care
to such an extent that it's suddenly like and now
they're having a drink.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Here here, here's the dire to me.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Still.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Here was something that was thought I thought was funny,
is that you know, all these episodes we've seen, you know,
if I really wants to complain that women weren't done
well in this episode, Uh, that is the most emotion
I think I've ever seen out of Kirk over some
one of his crew members dying.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Absolutely, yeah, she got she gotta send off in that way. Yeah. Yeah,
he actually gave a ship. Yeah, dare you?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it was like you killed one of our vaginas.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
No, we only have twenty for the four hundred men
up there. I hope not, but.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Four hundred men erect throbbing, waiting, hoping for consent.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
They knew that word back then, especially when interacting with
hot aliens. I guess.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I mean, hey, you remember the one of the first
episodes Charlie X where Charlie likes Yo Marian.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You got to learn not to just grab him like that.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That's yeah, yeah, Like there are a million things you
can have and a million things can't. Hm.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Your daddy should have told you this. Yeah, that's fair.
They knew some of it. Rape was a bit too far.
But if you make out with them once, just to
let them have a taste, they'll come back asking for more,
because that's just how it works.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, if you're curt, if you're correctly Riley singing fucking
Irish hymns or some ship like, that's not gonna work.
Nobody ever liked him.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, Okay, that's that's fair.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You gotta be swagger Stagger in the captain's chair, that's
what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You gotta have that position of power for for the
young blonde to be intimidated by it. I guess, I guess.
So we're not gonna dwell on age gaps again. But
Jesus Christ, how many decades between her and her captain? Uh?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh, captain, my captain.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean it is it is fun to have her,
you know, asked to be apologized Toling. Yeah, I get it,
I get it. It must have been must have been
a good day to shoot, but probably more so for
him than for her.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Oh, I don't know, you know those one of the
interesting things. Yeah, it's one of the interesting things. Or
like you would watch the like you just so many
interviews and stuff with different people who were on those shows,
and you know, some of them like uh woman who Collins, uh,
who played Edith Keeler. But she was like, oh yeah,
(16:16):
Shatner was so so attractive and everything. I couldn't wait
to meet him. And then like I got there and
he was like this little short, bald, fat guy and
they like and put lips in the shoes and put
a So you had that, but then you also had
like you'd have interviews with with some of the women
who would just be like, oh, I was so excited,
I couldn't wait. No, it was great it was great.
(16:37):
I got to make up with Bill Shatner. He was
handsome then he's handsome now like, okay, we'll do you
okay whatever. Yeah. By the way, apparently Shatner did not
like it, and this is the thing kiss women right right,
Apparently he didn't. He didn't care for it. He was
annoyed that they kept kind of putting that in which
(16:57):
they didn't even really it was like eighteen episodes out
of seventy nine.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, I wasn't every.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It was. Yeah, it was just a thing that he
was not. He felt uncomfortable. He was married.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know that's fair. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, he was married.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
He looked like he's enjoying it anyway. He very much
pulls the emotion out of his arms, trying to grab
on to the other person and convey some sort of
passion that isn't there.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
The most passion he ever had was Roger. He kissed
that woman in the Gamesters. They just socked her the
fucking face. He was like, you know how much my
wife is going to be mad at me at home?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Sock passion.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I've got kids, I've got a wife. She's mad
at me all the time. Because I'm always doing this shit.
I always I spend like sixteen hour days making Star Trek.
I get home, she and the kids have seen I had.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
To make out for twenty takes again.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And she sees me on TV shirtless making it out
with some girl in a bikini.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, I'm basically yeah, oh poor woman. I'm sure he
could relate to Rohan's jealousy in that moment, the feeling
of getting strangled with someone's bare hands.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I mean, I don't know what they were into.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, who knows?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Swing in sixties?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Man, who knows? Like I said before, this one also
obviously produced during the genel Koon John Meredith Lucas transitioned
and rushed due to NBC's very very late order for
more episodes.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So there there's that. But you know, I thought this
one actually pretty worked pretty well for it.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, this is this is not towards the bottom at all.
This is a solid upper middle. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It does this. It does a Star Trek thing where
they they hinted something real fucking.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Real interesting and then they just like.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Stick like the tip of their dick into it and
then pull out and go that's all you get. Yeah, yeah,
and guess what, you will never see those fucking Calvin's again.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
No, don't need them. They are, but they're they're they're interesting,
and you know, it is very I guess that relates
to the alleged tonal uh discrepancy, where is just we
We're going into this high concept, fucking scary ass aliens
who can pretty much do whatever they want with us. Yeah,
(19:35):
how do we defeat them? I guess we gotta do
something silly, man. We gotta just just have some booze
and and booze and women and jealousy and you know,
the three main characteristics of humans warnings and misplaced horniness
for other other people's horniness and and getting warny for
(19:56):
more drinks. I guess it's it's a lot of hornings.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I have I have a strange take. I think
Calinda was horny for herself.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Good for her, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Because every time we see Calinda when she's not interacting
with Kirk or Rojan, she's just like staring in a
mirror and brushing her hair and smiling like, yes, oh, yes,
I shall do what. I think she was just all
about her own like sexuality, and.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
She probably enjoyed some of that that power she had
over and Jane to be uh, to get to tell
him no, and and you know, sort of toy with that.
There is a yeah, I'm sure she discovered masturbation at
some point throughout this episode off screen.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh absolutely. And I do love how I do love
how they take this powerful commander Rojan and turned him
like the infant, helles him completely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, he's immediately a teenage boy best and he's I love.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like him playing chess with Spock, and Spock is like,
you are some jealousy and he's like, no.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Fuck you, I'm not. You're jealous.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Don't care what she does. Where was she?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Are you sure she's at home? Are you sure she's
not in bed with Kirk?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
She was, No, she was with Captain Kirk what I
told her not to with him?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How dare she?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I am her captain?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Like yes, right, yeah, that's how romance works. Yeah, I
am the boss of you. You shall not fuck with
these teenage boys, as I am.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Your father and your daddy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
In this case.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So one of the one of the most FAMO miss
bits from this episode is the point where Uh, Tomar
and Scott are so drunk and Tomar asks what is
it and Scott he says, well, it's ah. Look he's
he's looking at him smelling it. It's green.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Mm hmm. That's all you need to know. Sometimes it's
strong stuff for a long while. For for a newbie drinker,
he must have one outstanding liver.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, you would think he was a big boy. And
that's a big boy.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
That's how big boy. Who's a big boy.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
But yeah, they make a reference to that later on,
much later on and start nice in next generation. So
that's uh, I look forward to this more.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, exactly, and I'll be like, right, the one with
the booze. Yeah, bring booze absinthe, but space absinthe.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Let's see what we got. What we got? I don't know.
I don't feel like it was like yeah, you know,
it wasn't the most messaging.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, no, not necessarily. There's just the point of exploitable
human emotions and flaws. I guess it's it's there's no
nothing really deeper. There's just the oh you you changed
your your your physical shape. So now you have to
deal with the consequences of being in our shared reality
(23:53):
of how how existence works for for with our senses
and our emotions, But I don't. That's that's why I
kind of rolled my eyes when the Shakespeare thing came in,
and I'm like, yeah, I guess it's there to explain
the title. That's about it. Like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
(24:16):
it doesn't add much depth beyond well, we referenced an old,
old English writer. Yeah, yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think it would have been weird in some regard
to go back and deal with Thompson's death at the
end of the episode. Yeah, especially since there was like
that tonal shift.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, Like you couldn't have a like you can do
that within the episode when it already felt real quickly
resolved at the end after trying to kill Kirk with
his bare hands.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to
burial after that. No Red Shirts get much of a
eulogy from Kirk anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right, by the way, do you think that's like that
that murder is forgiven to too easily?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
No, I think as an audience you are also put
in the position of more or less forgetting it. But
it was it was also just a demonstration of strength
where I f you're like, yeah, it was one or
the other, and they didn't particularly care which one. Yeah,
and there is no option to be like, okay, now
(25:33):
that we're friends, you dick, you killed one of my people.
Like that's unwise. I yea within the stories context, I
don't think it's forgiven. I just think there's nothing to be.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Done, right. I think there's no way out on that one.
And also like there's there is something I think that
you know a lot of people don't understand in our
world is that sometimes you have to like forgive and
(26:06):
forget a little bit, because especially when you're seeing like
these these people here, like the Kelvins, they were freshly human.
They had no concept of what how we felt. Yeah,
Like they were like, we are following through on our orders.
(26:26):
We are this kind of species. We conquer, we take
everything down. This is what we and by the end
of it they are completely different people.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
M that's kind of the point. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, So it's like you don't want to see them
like go through this arc and become humans and go like,
oh shit, here are all these new sensations and feelings
and things we should feel bad for.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Now, what would have been interesting, yeah, is to have
Rojan feel shame.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Right right to have some regret from that side would
have made a difference, I feel in to those particular
fans who were felt felt that was too easily passed
on from but it's I don't think it's. It wouldn't
also have been fair to still principally be like, but
(27:22):
you were dicks before, and now that you're very different beings,
we're still gonna hold you accountable for your I was
just following orders. I guess this is a bad excuse,
but still it's It has that air of, you know,
we're not gonna squabble over that one life. It is
not that kind of a dramatic episode where the one
(27:44):
life really fucking mattered. It's not Kirk is. Kirk is
not gonna spend ten years to plan his obsessive revenge
against this cloud. Like no, some people died, but not
not that many in the in the grand scheme of things,
it sucks. Happens quite often.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think it would have been interesting to have a
scene where like Kirk is looking for ro Jann and
he's like ask the computer or whoever, like where is
ro Jan? And maybe ro Jane is in Thompson's quarters,
and he's like Thompson's quarters, and he goes down to
Thompson's quarters and Rojan is there like observing all of
all of the all of who this person may yeah squashed. Yeah, yeah,
(28:23):
like that would have been really cool.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
That would have been a good scene you could have
had him. And maybe that's what shame and regret And
why do I feel the weight of this life on my.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Shoulders instead of it just being.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Straight to jealousy? Yeah exactly, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Like I just want to hear that apart.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That's a sophisticated emotion of course, like you've got to
go primal. It's food, ooze and and banging. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, if there were an epilogue, then he then he
would have been like and now I feel guilt now
that I've now that I've emptied my new nutsack.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
For being a mean a bad friend and conquering made
me a meanie.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah. I drained my balls into Klinda earlier this morning,
and then I felt shame. And it took me a minute,
but I figured out it was over this human Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, I thought it was post Nott clarity and you know,
all the horrible sex X we hadn't committed just prior,
but no, it was actually shame over killing this full
person with a life and loved ones of her own.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
First I was thinking, Hey, she was pretty hot, and
then I felt bad because I killed her.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
That's worse.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I love that I only had sex with Klinda five
times before I started imagining other women. Is that normal?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yes, quite normal? Quite normal? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh awful, But yeah, it's it's fair, it is. It
is also true that the the dead girl was absolutely
like could have been very pretty in any other episode
if she weren't out shown immediately by the fact that
we had fucking Kalinda over there. Yeah, that's just unfair competition. Really,
(30:22):
you gotta kill one of them off, apparently, because otherwise
it's just it's too much.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Man. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta sometimes you got it.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
How did we get here?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
We always do?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
All right, Well we can move on, uh the way
the way Nieme Whye delivered that line. The whole a
series of bizarre and exotic images bursting on my mind
and consciousness. Colors, shapes, mathematical equations, fused and blurred. I've
been attempting to isolate them, but so far I've been
(31:01):
able to recall clearly only one immense beings one hundred
limbs which resemble tentacles, minds of such control and capacity
that each limb is capable of performing a different function.
Kind of fucking love crafty and bullshit of these calvins, Like.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yep, eh, that's that's fucked up, but it's it's it's
scary and huge. And also I feel like if there's
such a conquering race, god damn, how much of the
galaxy is under their control already? Like how many other
places have they invaded?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah? Or is it just this one like little sleeper
ship that.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Maybe they're the ones laughed? Yeah, they're just generations beyond
when they were that that important.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
But well, you know when they came from an all,
they came from another galaxy, the Andromeda, and they did
say that their ship was destroyed coming through the galactic barrier, right, Yeah,
so I don't know, are they the only ones? I
guess so, because we never hear from him.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Again exactly the only ones except for the ones in
the Adromeda galaxy, I suppose. But yeah, they seem to
be doing fine, not not coming over.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So right, I mean, at this point they made that
that they said that they fled here because the Andromeda
Galaxy was or their home was gonna was being destroyed
or something.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Oh by what?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
H I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
They're they're they're fine. They're all humans now, like Kirk
is like making out with Glenda, going like a hundred limbs,
each with its own function.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
M all of them pleasurable. Yeah, three are in my ass,
that's the same function.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Come on, now, they're each performing a different function in
my ass.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But yes, that was a good line.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
One of the tentacles is shoving a triple A battery
up my dickle.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That is a good line. I'm glad you at least
feel shame.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oh I don't. Oh, I don't. I only feel.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you. I wish I wish I had.
I wish people sent me footage of themselves turning off
my podcast to discust.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, yeah, that those would be good, good facial responses
to to really get to see what it does to
people hearing it for the first time.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah you great, Oh well.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Sending in your pictures if you're still listening.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I like this because they hatched this whole plan to
destroy the enterprise to open those vents and and let
the galactic barrier destroy it. And uh and roe Jan's like,
do you not agree that this is a better thing
for them than exploding the ship as your engineer had
thought to do. We detected it. Of course Tomar has
(34:22):
devised a mechanism to prevent any further tampering. I just
love that they were ahead of Kirk and Scotty.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, like it wouldn't have worked come on now.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But it's like a got a badass that there was, like, no,
we're gonna blow up the ship.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's yeah, Yeah, it is cool that they were immediately
ready to actually go nuclear in that sense, like have
the full the option of just let's come and cause
it as ship. We don't want this entering any other galaxy.
Let's let's fuck off, all right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Uh. Story outline by Jerome Bixby just on the face
of it, right out of the right, out of the box.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Then we had a revised second draft by DC Fontana.
I know that name, Yeah, yeah, you do, and then
additional page revisions by John Meredith Lucas, which you know,
it has been pointed out that John Meredith Lucas leaves
by the end of the second season, right, he barely
(35:30):
gets any way, We don't really.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Know what he would have done on his own.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Really done. Yeah, Like he comes in and he's a
patch and then he's gone.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So the title and part of a is part of
a quotation from Romeo and Juliet, Act two, Scene two.
Wasn't a name that which we can that's sorry, that
which we call a rose by any other name would
smell as sweet, Kirk recides it to Clint. It is
often used to convey the idea that although you could
change the name of something, it's nature will remain the same.
(36:05):
In this case, the Kelvins become human, and in doing so,
they start behaving as humans.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Do I feel like that explanation still still rings a
bit for me where I'm like, eh, this is not
quite still yeah, yeah, I forget the exact context in
which Kirk even brings it up, but like, if the
(36:34):
Kelvins become human, like the way this sentence is constructed,
it would appear that the Kelvins do not retain their
nature despite changing names, basically, which is the opposite. But
so you'd have to sort of reconstruct the statement to
be like no, no, no, they're humans who think of
(36:56):
themselves as Kelvins, but they're still humans, right, which.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
It's there, But I think you should have been called
the apology trap.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
The apology just period. That's the center of the drama
we came for.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, or kissing Kelvin's.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I mean, alliteration is always a good solution to any problem, right.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Uh. The basic sorry, the basis of this episode can
be found in Gene ron Berry's first ever produced science
fiction script, The Secret Weapon of one point seventeen for
Chevron Hall Stars in nineteen fifty six. The episode featured
a pair of aliens, the male played by Ricardo Montalban,
who disguised themselves as humans to study Earth people, but
(37:49):
become overwhelmed by the sensations and experiences of their new
host bodies and decide to remain human.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Huh, sometimes you got to rework some of your old material.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, let's see. In the Star Trek interview book, Jerome
Bixby told Alan Asherman that he originally wrote the episode
in a rather more serious vein, but that in depicting
the potential end of the human race at the hands
of the Kelvins, he failed to heat Producer Gene Roddenberry's
warning to avoid getting wrapped up and quote the immensity
(38:20):
of it all. As a result, DC Fontana rewrote the
script as a more lightweight episode.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Dad damn it, don't get wrapped up in the immensity
of it That would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah maybe maybe, maybe I know how it went, but yeah,
it might be eye rollingly intense, like oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It depends on how sci Fi were getting sure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah. Bixby's original script was much darker than the filmed episode.
The Kelvins, then called the Devinians, executed executed ten Enterprise
crew members by opening the shuttle bayed doors and letting
them get sucked out into pace. Kirk was put through
hellish torture. Also, crew members were chosen to mate with
(39:05):
each other. Kirk was paired with Yoman Leslie Thompson to
eventually she was that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Was the the one that yeah killed.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
She got killed in the very beginning of the episode. Uh,
he's paired with her to eventually breed slaves to the Kelvins.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
That's fucked up.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
NBC objected against all of this. Fine, like that's what
Ryan Berry meant by don't get into the immensity of
it all. Uh, it's like, Jerome, I know you you're
gonna go a little dark on this one.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, yeah, And still like it must have been hard
to shoot at the time, shuttle doors opening and everyone
flowing out. Yeah, Like, that's not easy, man, Relax, So
turn them into cubes.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Genu had to order a heavy rewrite on the material.
The production staff also deemed the mating aspect too similar
to the cage. According to David Gerald, the writers could
not figure out how the Kelvins would eliminate the crew.
While in Rodenberry's office, someone spotted a Mexican onyx Dodecca
hedron on his desk and suggested that they be transformed
(40:22):
into objects of that shape. Dorothy Fontana describes the scene
related by Gerald on these Special Features at Season two
on the Season two DVD. She indicates that she had
given the Dodecca hedgron to Rodberry and that he played
with it while they described their problem, and then ron
Berry made the suggestion that they be transformed into objects
(40:44):
of that shape. It is unknown if the original object
given to Rodberry was an actual Dodecca hedron, but the
propt used in the episode was a fact of the
shape of a h cue bocta hedron.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right right, Yeah, you got there, you got there. Yeah,
Because I was about to say, like, if it's a
do deca heater and it would have been twelve sides,
but this, this is different. Sure, okay, who oh man,
not that I know what a que boc to heater
on is without googling it, so well might have been different,
(41:24):
different shapes and on the sides, I don't remember. It's fine.
It looks spacey.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
This was the only episode lensed by cinematographer Keith Smith,
replacing Jerry Fitterman, who was apparently unavailable for an unknown reason.
Smith was the director of photography on Mission Impossible, filmed
next door. The final scene, you know, I don't. I don't.
I didn't feel like it looked much different.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
No, me, neither fit right in. They did their job.
Everyone showed up on time and went home. And yeah,
it's not a take. It's not a ce pmotography heavy
kind of show where you're like, oh, I'm gonna do
some real weird ship this time. They have their they
have established their ways by now.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah. The final scene in the episode is an optical
of the ship veering to the right to change course
back to the Milky Way Galaxy. Though this optical breakaway
shot was used several times in season two and three,
this is the only time the complete shot is shown
in this entirety, with the left the cell's sphere shaped
cap coming into view briefly before the ship exit. The
(42:30):
frame exits the frame.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Wow, already compared every time that shot showed up. Jesus Christ, Yeah,
I love me some memory Alpha contributors. Jesus. Yeah, I'm
glad I didn't have to look into that.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
George de Kay does not appear in this episode. This
is the tenth secutive episode Yeah in which he is absent,
but he returns to the series in the next episode
to Pretty to be produced. Returned to tomorrow. Huzzah, where's
you going? Passed that because that's a spoiler.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, now we're gonna ignore whatever. I mean, he's he's
coming back. But that's all I need to know. We
get some more Zulu next time. M hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Kirk mentions that an intergalactic voyage by a twenty third
century starship would take quote thousands of years to reach
the Andromeda Galaxy. For the Kelvins, intergalactic travel is a
three century journey in the twenty fourth century as seen
in Next Generations where no one has gone before. Federation
technology has apparently matched that of the Kelvins when it
(43:34):
was when it was discussed that a return trip to
the Milky Way from the Triangulum galaxy would take three
hundred years of maximum war.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Cool And it does make some semblance of sense where
you're like, well, they tried to adapt the fucking engines
in the on the enterprise to so they so the
Federation must have learned something from those adaptations, right, maybe
maybe maybe maybe there was something there they could replicate
to jump start that the next one hundred years of development.
(44:10):
DR and D Department must have had a field day, yeah, like, oh,
these aliens came in trying to conquerors, but they didn't conquerors,
and they did leave us some interesting engines.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
But because they were human, they fucked up the designs
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Ah fuck human error, no.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
No, oh gosh. Direct references to two previous episodes were made.
After ro Jann mentions the galactic barrier, Kirk says, we've
been there. He's like, bitch, you ain't you know you
get nothing on us speaking fuck you, Yeah, we know,
we know that was from where no man has gone before,
(44:48):
and then Spock repeats his analysis of the barrier word
for word, density negative, radiation negative, energy negative. When the
landing party is detained in a cave, Kirk calls their
imprisonment on em and Air seven and Spock's use of
a mind meld to fool the guards in a Taste
of Armount Keedden.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
That that one was clear to me. I didn't quite
remember what happened with the barrier last time, but I
remember the term being a thing before. But it's nice
for them to tie it in. It did feel more
cohesive that way.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
This was This is a fun little bit here in
Charlie X since we mentioned that earlier. Kirk tells Charlie
Evans quote there's no right way to hit a woman. However,
in this episode and in the Gamesters of Triskellion, Kirk
strikes a woman on Glinda. He uses the karate chop
to the neck.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
There's no right way to hit a woman. But if
you're gonna use a karate chop to the neck.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right way to hit a woman. But this, bitches of Calvin.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
I mean, technically, now she's a human woman. You know
you just gotta apologize after your karate chop to the
next right, she'll want that from you, right, oh boy?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
All right? Anything else?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I don't think so. I think I'm good. I had
a good time with this one.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Good good, Yeah, next time on the classic track, watch rewatch.
We learned that being incorporeal can bring much sorrow. So
let's build robot bodies and return to tomorrow. We're talking
Saran and his whole bag of tricks or should I
say ball when we discuss Star Trek two twenty two.
(46:33):
Return to tomorrow. Until then, all the things Joel untrue,
livelong and prosper.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
And uh it's right there on the tip of my tongue. Oh,
eat a dick, people, eat a dick.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Like you know, Calinda? Did we all do? Rojan got
her back to.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
His I'll apologize to my dick.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Now look away, now look back at it. I'll give
it a little chass.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagus
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more, from Matthew Carroll. Check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast, or listen to his music. Just search for
Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
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