Resilience and Transformation: The Mike Moulton Journey

In this episode, we're joined by the remarkable Mike Moulton—a man who embodies the essence of resilience and transformation. Mike is not only a heart attack survivor but also a personal development enthusiast, a corporate recruiter, a marathon runner, and a double master's degree holder, despite starting as a high school dropout. Mike's story is a testament to overcoming adversity through spiritual and emotional intelligence. His journey through betrayal trauma, personal challenges, and professional success offers invaluable insights into building meaningful relationships, fostering personal growth, and developing a resilient spirit. We dive deep into Mike's empowering morning routines, his passion for reading, and the lessons he's gleaned from his extraordinary journey. He shares how experiences from his childhood, like wrestling camps, taught him resilience and how these lessons have informed his approach to personal development, professional growth, and spiritual direction. Additionally, Mike opens up about navigating life's trials with spiritual and emotional intelligence, the impact of overcoming a life-threatening heart attack, and the profound reflections it provoked about life, purpose, and passion. Listeners will also gain motivation from Mike's advice on facing insurmountable obstacles, the importance of a growth mindset, and how he uses his platform to inspire others in their career paths and personal lives. As someone who reads over 40 books a year, Mike recommends literature that has profoundly impacted him and shares how his commitment to fitness and a disciplined morning routine have set the foundation for his daily success—culminating in running a half marathon just ten months after his heart attack. Through podcasting and writing on LinkedIn, Mike aims to convey messages of resilience, growth, and empathy, striving to make a significant impact on his audience. Closing the episode, Mike shares his personal mantra that guides him in striving daily towards being his best self, emphasizing the importance of having empathy for oneself. Don't miss this deeply moving and motivational discussion with Mike Moulton. It's a journey of discovering how to transform adversity into strength and live a life filled with purpose and joy. Grab my books, my services, freebies, and more at https://linktr.ee/Flexxmp Link also in bio. For more insights and wisdom, visit our website and follow the link in the description to learn more about Nate's work and our other episodes on Strive 365 About Justen Arnold: For a comprehensive gateway to all things related to Justen Arnold, including helpful links, exclusive affiliate deals, and special discounts, visit http://linktr.ee/Flexxmp Unlock My Personal Insights: Gain free access to my personal journal and explore the strategies I use for success at flexxmp.phonesites.com/flexxmpjournal. Learn more about my journey at www.flexxmp.com Discover My Literary Journey: Check out my new book, "Purpose Through Pain: Living a Limitless Lifestyle in the Presence of Adversity," at www.justenarnold.com This heartfelt exploration delves into overcoming challenges and finding strength in adversity. Join Me in My Mission: I've embarked on a fulfilling new role in sports ministry and mission work with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (FCA). To support this cause or to learn more, please visit my donation page at https://my.fca.org/justenarnold Support the Podcast: Strive 365 is 100% listener-supported. Your support, whether monetary, through likes, positive comments, or shares, is deeply appreciated and helps us continue bringing inspiring content to our audience. And remember, if you're looking to produce your own podcast or any audio project, Roc Vox is offering a special discount. Mention 'Justen Arnold and Strive 365' to receive 15% off your session. Fin

Episode Transcript

(00:20):
Welcome to another empowering episode of Strivethree sixty five, your go to source
for conquering life's challenges and thriving nomatter the odds. Whether you're seeking mental,
physical, emotion, or spiritual growth, We're here to help guide you
toward a better life. I'm yourhost, Justin Arnold, coming from you,
coming to you from the amazing RockBox Studio here in Rochester, New
York. Today we welcome Mike Moulton. He's a heart attack survivor and a

(00:41):
personal development junkie and corporate recruiter.Now. Mike's journey from overcoming a heart
attack to thriving in a global company, alongside running a half marathon and earning
two master's degrees as a high schooldropout, embodies resilience and transformation, things
that we talk about on this show. He's passionate about spiritual and emotional intelligence,
and his insights on betrayal, trauma, personal growth, and building meaningful

(01:03):
relationships are invaluable. So join usas Mike shareses is empowering, morn of
routines, love for reading, andall kinds of things here on Strive sixty
five. So, Mike, anythingyou like to add there to that introduction
or anything you like to start chattingabout. But before I drill you with
the questions, now, No,I really appreciate the time. I been
looking forward to this. I knowthe first time we had it's scheduled.

(01:25):
I actually had a issue that Ihad to go back to the hospital for
and yeah, it's it's been quitea journey. But when I heard the
introduction and you send it to mepreviously, I was like, who's he
talking about? It happens. Yeah, I'm real close. I like to
almost make out with my mic andgotcha hello, No, good, go

(01:49):
ahead. No, I was like, you know, who's he talking about?
Like? Where did this? Whois this guy? I look forward
to meeting him and realizing, oh, he's talking about me. Yeah,
I'm glad you brought that up becauseit's like we were scheduled and then here
you are living it. I thinkthat's the best part, you know,
for me example, my second book. You know a lot of those past

(02:12):
stories, but I recently released anepisode here. If you haven't caught it,
go watch it, listen to it. But just you know, I
think that's the best stories is whenyou're actually living it and not that it's
always that way twenty four to seven. I mean, you need to figure
out how to navigate. But it'seasy, I think, to do the
work when life is easy. It'shard to do the work when life is

(02:34):
hard. So continue, No,I think that what you're doing. You
know, when you introduce what thispodcast is all about, and you asked
me to be on it, youknow where you talk about spirituality, emotional
growth, you know, the variousways of just growing as a person.
It fell in line with who Iam and you know who your listeners might

(02:54):
be. So I figured that itwould be a great opportunity to come in
and just you know, talk withyou, talk with your listeners and really
present you know, something that youknow maybe comes through me, maybe they've
heard it before. This is somethingthat I've come to you know, understand
is that like when I think aboutcoaching, I think about you know,

(03:17):
life coaching. I think about justinteracting with others. You know, we
really focus in on like what canI bring to the table. And I
actually had those they're almost imposter syndrometype thoughts, right like what do I
have to add to any of thisthat's not already been added to? And
the point that I came to wasthat me, me being introduced into that

(03:46):
stream of thought for other individuals,Like, nobody has the experience that I
have as I have it in life, and so when I present things,
I present things from the way thatI've experienced, maybe similar things that people
have gone through, But because ofwho I am and you know, my
background and how I have my worldviewand those types of things, the way

(04:08):
that I like engage the things aroundme is so different and helpful to others.
And that's for everybody. Like somany times we don't think we have
anything to offer because oh, wellthat you know, that's already saturated with
so many people in that space.But the point that I'm making is that
we have something to add because ofour individuality and how we interact with the

(04:31):
things that happen to us and theway it just you know, goes out
to the world. Yeah, andI think we while we might have some
similar experiences, each of our storiesare unique. You know what I found
unique about yours is just everything.You know, You've had a heart attack,
you've had a challenging divorce, andI know people can relate to that.

(04:53):
You're not the first person to havea heart attack. You know,
the first person to have a divorce, But your story and how you've overcome
it could really help some others.It could even help people who are still
in relationships and marriages that are tryingto save it and your your stuff could
provide that and just simply share yourstory. Does money? Does everybody need
to write a book? Does everybodyneed to become a coach or make it

(05:15):
a profession. No, but Ithink everybody at some capacity needs to open
up, even if just to themselves. I mean especially men, right,
how many men just keep that hiddeninside? I mean especially you know,
probably our parents. You know,I literally just had a conversation months ago
with my parents that was deep.And my dad always starts to starts to

(05:41):
have jokes, my mom wants tochange subjects, but we finally got into
it and it started with you know, me forgiving them for everything. And
I've told this story to you,but not really on here. And they
opened up to things I've never evenknown, even about their childhood. And
it was incredib because you could telljust the release through the phone call,

(06:02):
like in their body language. Andsince then and I asked, why have
you never told me this? Andthe words right out of their mouth.
I don't want to bother you withit. And I just said, it's
bothered me for forty three years becauseyou didn't share, because you let it
out in other ways, you know. So I'm not going to share that
on here because you know, myparents I think did the best job that.

(06:25):
I really do believe that my parentsdid the best job. I'm not
here to knock them. I'm hereto love them because at the end of
the day, I really truly believethat. But go on, continue because
I mean, I know you've gotsimilar stuff. Like you said, your
heart attack, You've been through someemotional trauma, You've been thriving even through
these I mean just recently, whywere we had to reschedule this? So

(06:45):
why don't you share some of thatexperience and talk about your resilience through all
that and overcoming it. Yeah.I think if I begin my resilience story,
it really starts when I was fiveand experiencing my dad leaving, you
know, coming home from school asa five year old, walking into the
house and watching your father packing thecar and then driving off. And at

(07:11):
that point, you don't know whatyour life is going to look like.
I didn't know what my life wasgoing to look like. You know,
I didn't even know how to processit. How do you process you know,
somebody who's so significant in your life, like he was my hero at
that time. Real complex. Yeah, all of a sudden boom gone.
And now you know, I'm anonly boy growing up with three women around

(07:33):
me. How do I navigate life? Well? I mean I had a
great grandfather who was he not agreat he was a grandfather who was great
to me, and he really tookme under his wing and everything like that.
But you know, I I wasn'talways resilient. I mean I didn't
know how to navigate that at thattime. But as I grew up,

(07:55):
like I fell in love with thesport of wrestling, and wrestling to me
was like almost like a at thetime, because what I, you know,
got into with wrestling was resiliency,Like how do you get through six
minutes of the worst possible? Youknow, pain? You know, it's

(08:16):
in your heart, it's in yourmind, it's in your body, it's
your lungs, like everything is justbeing crushed, but you're working through it.
You know, I was working throughit, and everything focused on like
becoming a better wrestler. Like Iwent all summer long, you know,
I went to wrestling camps, Iran, I went to you know,

(08:39):
they had open gym, I'd gowrestle. I'd go to other schools and
so, like this story of resiliencereally began with I think, you know,
my dad leaving and then going intomy high school years of really embracing
wrestling. And then there came atime when all of that dropped out because
I mean there were things going onin my family, and I made poor

(09:01):
choices and I dropped out of highschool. So now you know, I
drop out of high school, andyeah, I kind of self sabotaged,
right, So I have these twothings going on, like I'm being trained
internally, you know, through wrestling, through resilience, but then I'm still
self sabotaging, like I was votedthe captain of the wrestling team, like

(09:22):
this year was going to be myyear. And then I get into doing
drugs, right, I get intosmoking weed, tripping on acid, hanging
out with people I shouldn't have beenhanging out with, dropped out of high
school, like done my senior year, and then one day I'm out partying
and I have a Christian experience.I have an experience that God really saved

(09:48):
me from this group of people.And I ended up starting to go to
church at that point, and reallymy life's trajectory started changing. Now at
that point, you know, Ididn't know what personal growth was, but
I was always on a personal growthjourney, you know what I mean,
Like I was always trying to getbetter, trying to be a better human

(10:09):
was labeled it's like you can doit. I mean, that was that
was me for I mean the majorityof my life. I talk about this
in my first book, and justbeing at age twelve and since age twelve
was like, yeah, I stillhad hurdles and all these things, and
I still do this day. Butyou know, it was always knowing that
to pick myself essentially back up andto move a step forward, even if

(10:31):
it's only one step, like onepercent better is now something I coin and
and I want you to continue.But yeah, I mean we relate.
I mean I did wrestling too untilI tore my rotator CUF and then was
starting to find my identity after thatbecause I thought I was going to be
this like championship wrestler, because Iwas on my way, and I can
relate on just physicality, like theaggression of wrestling, as you said,

(10:52):
wrestling was a savior. And thenyou talk about the hero complex. I
just literally had a conversation, adeep one, with somebody about this recently.
How who is your hero? Likemany people, it's like their father,
their parents, and I never reallythought about it because I couldn't find
one. I was one of these. I felt weird because I never put
posters up on my wall growing upas a kid, you know, like

(11:15):
a lot of people had famous things. I love music, but I never
like idolized anybody. And I grewup Catholic. But I've told this story
before, so I won't tell itnecessarily again. But I didn't believe in
God or a Jesus for so long, and my dad fell short in so
many ways, and early on wasabuses, so like not him, you
know, in fact, one ofmy abusers. I realized when I was

(11:37):
having this conversation, I'm like God, I idolized one of my abusers for
so long. That was my hero, And it was weird for me to
like come to that realization. AndI'm only sharing that because it's like we
can't put anyone really on a herocomplex. We have to almost be our
own hero. Why I have goneto spirituality. I know everybody's beliefs are
different, but for me, humansare always going to fall short and we

(12:00):
can all help, but to idolize, to put them up on a pedestal.
So that's like for me, that'swhy, like Jesus, he's my
hero, right like you know,to have something bigger beyond and and and
people that question me on that orsay something is like, maybe I'm wrong,
but in if you read about him, say he's a mythical creature or

(12:20):
whatever, if you follow him convertedto a human, I'd still rather follow
him like whatever. So but continuewith your story. Man, it's such
a it's such a beautiful thing.Oh one other thing I want to say,
you said when you were five wherethis all started. I just think
it's so interesting if we choose,Because you talked about your personal growth.
I think it's so interesting how ifwe choose our experiences and our youth,

(12:41):
it can become lessons and education laterin life. Right like if we see
that like they're part of our journey, they're part of our story. But
we have to see we can't havethe you know, purpose through pain,
and not to bring that up again, but it's just like we can't look
at our stories as woe is meor try to ignore them. We got
to like grow from there through them, embrace them. And it's like it's

(13:01):
like a sculpture. Like we're likea sculpture, right, That's a good
way to look at it, Ithink. And and like you're being sculpted
through the pain, through the adverse, some of the good moments, to
all of it. It's like creatingthis ultimate piece of art. So it
is it's a continual process of growthover time, you know. And for

(13:22):
me, when I got to thatplace where I had that Christian experience,
I was a high school dropout.I didn't know what I could do right,
and so then someone said, hey, you should get your ged,
and I was like, all right, cool. So I went in and
I took the test, got myged, and then I was working in
some factories about a year later,and I'm like, these people are miserable.

(13:43):
You know, these people are miserable. So this is roughly about four
years after I get out of highschool, and I mean they're My manager
was a drunk you know, throwing. I was spot welding and he would
throw metal across the room. Room. Good example for a leader, right
there, you go, This ishow I lead. Yeah, exactly exactly.

(14:05):
So I was like, these peopleare miserable. So I applied to
two schools. I applied to aBible College and I applied to Sunny Brockport.
I didn't get accepted into the BibleCollege. Sunny Brockport accepted me.
So what I did is I wentto Sunny Brockport and I ended up locking
myself into the library like for fromthe time dinner ended every day to eleven

(14:31):
o'clock at night, I was inthe library, reading, doing my homework,
doing everything I had applied to wrestling, I'd put it into my studies.
And the crazy thing is is myhigh school coach had ended up retiring
from high school coaching, went toSunny Brockport and was an assistant coach there.
Found me in the library and askedme to come join the team,

(14:54):
and I told him I can't becauseeverything I put into my wrestling I need
to put in schooling now. AndI just had a vision for myself.
I knew I was gonna, youknow, move forward. I knew I
was gonna I was going to dothat again. Uh at that point I
was twenty two. Impressive. Man, I sure didn't have visions or I
knew I want to do better.But man, that's that's that's an impressive

(15:16):
way to just look at life.So I would like you for that.
Thank you. You know what.The way I look at some of these
things is like, I don't havean option. So I didn't have an
option, so I can relate tothat. For sure. I was either
going to be in factories the restof my life or I was going to
take control through education and move forwardin the directions where I was led.

(15:41):
So I think I did that.I just never consciously thought it the way
you explain that. Yeah, Imean I look back, and you know
I had I'm from Sulbury, Chicago. We moved to Western Illinois, and
I knew I didn't want the lifethat I was seeing, and I knew
I didn't want to go back there. So I went to school like in
Kentucky. I've never been in Kentucky. I was Kentucky. I did get
scholarships and things, but yeah,and then even my degree, like I

(16:04):
went into music hoping that I couldtravel the world as like a musician or
something. Was my original dream forthose that don't know. So, yeah,
and glad you said that, causeI don't know if I ever thought
about that. Yeah, yeah,and so you know. But then I
made choices. After that, Idecided to join the military, went to
the military, went to San Antonio. I believe that that was serendipitous for

(16:27):
me because I met some of thegreatest people I've ever known in my life,
heroes of mine, good friends ofmine. I lost a mentor,
he had passed away of a heartattack at forty eight, and then we
ended up I met my wife,my ex wife now but my wife down
there, and then we ended upmoving back here. And then what opened

(16:48):
up for me was through the postnine eleven gi Bill, I was able
to go and get my master's degree, and I did that in divinity,
thinking I was going to go becomea pastor. And in the meantime I
was doing different jobs and stuff likethat, so I made a pivot.
I was actually doing a lot ofback office stuff because I did military intelligence
work, and so I went forlike computer jobs and I hated him.

(17:12):
I hated them couldn't do it.Didn't like it was like, I'm not
gonna be stuck in this, andI ended up getting like a call center
job. I was going to ask, why do you think that was?
Why did you hate that? Oh? Because I like to be with people.
I mean, and I should haveknown that. But you know what,
I needed to support my family.I had a family of five.

(17:33):
I got to go through it.You got to experience and know, and
then you got to wrestle with thethoughts as this resistance in a good or
bad way, you know, right, Yeah, Not knowing any of those
words, I was just being ledby the Lord. You know, faith
man, Faith, That's why youneed it because it helps in so any
ways. And so I ended uplike, truthfully, I was doing credit

(17:53):
card processing and point of sale solutionsand going every door, every floor,
and one day I'm walking out ofa place and I'm like, you know,
I wonder if I can sell jobsmy cousin. And where the context
of that comes from is my cousinhad a recruiting firm for twenty years at
that time, and I had seenthat he had a recruiter role open,

(18:18):
and so I messaged him and Iwas like, hey, Joe, can
I, you know, come andrecruit for you. He said, well,
let's talk. So we talked.He hired me full commission, like
just everything. I had everything that, you know, I basically earned every
dime you know, and through everyclosed role, so job posting, close

(18:44):
it, I'd make five hundred bucksa pop something like that. So I
basically went from zero to now,you know, I'm working for a global
company, you know, less thanten years, less than ten years later,
it's you know, I'm at theten year mark now. But like
it took me four years to getto Xerox and then uh no, sorry,
it took me three years to getto Xerox, and then I was

(19:07):
there for three years and then COVIDand a bunch of stuff happened. So
so so with your corporate role,and you know, someone that's deeply involved
in you know, the personal developmentside of things and and and you know,
how do you integrate that into yourprofessional life? Like how do you
use your platform? How do youuse it to inspire others in your career
path? Yeah, that's a goodquestion, you know, because on LinkedIn

(19:30):
and stuff like that, like Iam essentially like I am you know,
I work for for Visa Corporation,so I am a Visa recruiter and so
when I'm on that platform, everythingis Visa and everything it comes from the
recruitment side of things, So Idon't do anything for coaching over in that
over in that side. Instagram,however, is the side where I do

(19:55):
all of my coaching stuff, soin Facebook. But like I have two
separate identities. I have recruiter Mikeand I have coach Mike. However,
how I integrate it is, youknow, I take my strength, so
I took in one of my master'sdegrees, I had to take like a
strengths finder, I had to takeall of that, and so I took

(20:17):
my strengths of relationship building a learner, you know. And then also optimism
is one of them, and sois like it's called WU but that's actually
like, you know, really influencingpeople. So I take all of that
and I use them on both sides. So the integration of Mike me is
on both on both platforms in mytwo different you know ways of doing it.

(20:44):
So like I feel fully integrated onInstagram and I feel fully integrated on
LinkedIn. No, I get it. Yeah, yeah, no, that
makes sense, do you So doyou use it in your professional life like
with colleagues or anything in that sort, or even customers or people you might
interact. Well, I don't havecustomers. I have candidates that you know
across the world. But yeah,I mean I blog there. I have

(21:08):
what's called Wisdom Wednesdays, and that'swhere I just kind of share something.
I was trying to do like threethree blogs a week, but it was
just too much. And with whatI've come to the conclusion is I,
I, you know, need tooversee the stressors in my life, and

(21:29):
it was stressing me out to dothree blogs. So I was like,
you know what, I'm going todo one a week, and I'm going
to do it really good, andthat's what I'm going to focus on.
Yeah, I mean I've navigated thosepaths, and I think a lot of
people have. You know, youneed to see, you need to feel
out like you know, for example, I know somebody right now who's trying
to do almost too much good andeven like within his own home, and

(21:51):
he's got a family, but thenby trying to help a good friend,
it's putting the rest of his familyin danger and it's like, you know,
it's like that in anything else forme, same idea. You know,
I run a gym, I've writtenbooks, and people like, how
do you do it all? Well, it's all undo the umbrella like health
and wellness, right, you know, I only, for example, put
out two podcasts a month, youknow, because you know I'm not gonna,
for example, you're not gonna writethree blogs. You chose one.

(22:14):
But we got to figure out andnavigate, you know, where we can
bring most value. But also youneed to think about ourselves first, Like
that's where the selfish, selfish,selfless stuff comes because if we really want
to help people. And we've talkedabout this on here before and you can
as well if you want to godeeper on your story. But it's just
like I see this still to thisday. People who got the biggest hearts,

(22:41):
right, like parents especially, butthey let themselves go in so many
ways so they really can't give themselvesto be the best capacity. But I
realize, you know, I'll,for example, like things that I do
that my kids see me do andnow they get it and they do themselves.
Are you know I told you whenI came in, man, it
was a long weekend. So I'mgoing to take a break and they might

(23:03):
come in and they know that daddy'smeditating. Now it took a while,
but they know to walk away.But they're starting to meditate too and seeing
the value of it, right,because kids are sponges. So the same
thing you need to know, youknow, where's your mental capacity to be
the biggest giver? Right? Andit sounds like you found that, which
is so great. Like, howdo you with everything you've been through?

(23:26):
You know, I know we kindof touch on this, but I think
we can go deeper because it's likeyou've been through the lot. So how
do you take the take a pause, have the self awareness and the reflection
to know when you're being tugged toomuch or giving too much. Yeah,
that's a good question. So firstof all, you know the scriptures,
Jesus said, you gotta you know, love yourself, love others as you

(23:48):
love yourself. And so priority isif I can't love myself well, then
I'm not going to be able tolove others well. In the way that
I love others is by being mybest self in a situation, or being
bringing my best self to work,bringing my best self to my family,
bringing my best self to you know, my significant other, those types of

(24:12):
things. So it's you know itreally for me, it's it's allowing myself
to see my I have a spiritualdirector. He's an old Catholic monk,
and he has this phrase that Ilove you have to see yourself coming at
yourself. And so what he meansis like essentially being self aware. Right,

(24:37):
So are you self aware enough toknow this is going to trigger me?
Am I self enough aware to knowthis is going to harm somebody else
if I say this, if Ido this, what is going to be
their response if I do this?You know, so you start I started
living with more empathy. I startedthinking through like, you know, what

(25:03):
are the causes of my actions?And it really culminated with like when I
found out like infidelity changed me innately. Now you can go in one of
two ways with infidelity. You know, when someone betrays you, you can
go really angry or you can becomelike focused in on getting better. So

(25:25):
you're saying you have two choices.I think you have several, but the
main choices. Yes, there's afew directions. You can kill someone too,
No, I mean yes, butthere's good bad, Like, yes,
there's multiple I'm just trying to Iwanted to pause there just so listeners
could follow, because our brains canget scrambled and stressful situation. That's how

(25:47):
I look at it. We've allbeen there, right, it just becomes
this mess. And another way I'dlike to say, we can either react
or we can respond. You know, when a response is probably gonna be
a much more intelligent way of doingit. Yeah, you know, like
and for you know, and I'llthink back to hockey since of the sport,
like you can nowadays you can eitherhave a left stick or right stick.
There there is no neutral stick likethere used to be anymore. So

(26:10):
anyways, continue no, and Ithink you know one of the things that
you know, we can either respondor react. But when you've when you're
going through harmful things, right,sometimes you're going to react and you're going
to present the worst of yourself.I did when I found out about everything

(26:34):
angry to the core, like tothe points of like wanting to harm myself,
take my own life, you know. So the reactions are real and
they're in the moment, and whathappens is is we grow in our resilience
emotional resilience by allowing ourselves to gothrough that and giving ourselves empathy first.

(26:59):
Yeah, and I think you knowI want to say this just so we're
clear. I'm not saying you shouldalways respond. Sometimes you need to react,
like if your child's are already tolike fall off of if you're hiking,
you need to react. You can'tsay, well, I wonder what
happened to No, you got toreact. Like there's moments where you can
react. But when it comes tolike what you said, like emotional intelligence,
you know, you know it's abouta growth period. So yes,

(27:22):
if you're if you're fighting, let'slet's bring it down to that. If
you're fighting with your your your partner, you can either instead of trying to
win the battle, which I alwayssay, in these kinds of fights,
you always both parties lose if youcontinue, or you can respond knowing that
you know, I've been in these. Let's be honest, Like, I
love my wife dearly and in justlike any healthy marriage or any marriage in

(27:47):
general, there's going to be someyou know, arguments, fights, call
it what you will. Nothing physicalbetween us, by the way, so
nobody call anyone. But like we'vehad some arguments, and I've learned that
sometimes it's better to just shut mymouth before I say something stupid. And
with that said, there's been moments, not anything recently, but where she's
wanted to And I'm saying this onlybecause I know people can relate, just

(28:12):
like why we're here today and whywon't you say anything those words? And
I know that like why she's doingthat, So I just will keep my
mouth shut because even though she's madat me in the moment, if I
say something, it can make thingseven worse. So I'd rather come back
to the table, you know.And it always comes back better every single

(28:32):
time that we come back and talkabout it, whether it's an apology or
whether it's just like we realize atthe end of the day, we both
realized we were superheated and trying towin an argument always right, and then
it always comes back stronger and ourrelationships is better. And that's what I
love about my wife. We alwayscome back to after anything, you know,
whatever we've been going through, like, we always come back and we

(28:53):
collect and we connect and we grow. And so I challenge people in those
instances, is where you want torespond? Definitely, Yeah, definitely and
you know, when when you're goingthrough you know, difficult times, what's
going to come out right? LikeOswald Chambers talks about being broken bread and

(29:15):
poured out wine and what he meansin that statement, if you ever utmost
for his Highest is a devotional thatI used to really dive into. But
the concept is that what cuts youwill you know, basically produce something that
comes out of you. And inthe time of you know, when I

(29:37):
was dealing with betrayal trauma or evenwhen I was dealing with my heart attack,
like two different ways of how Iresponded and how I reacted drew out
something totally different. Like I wastrying to hold on to something that was
dead right, keeping it alive,and on the other side, I was
trying to stay a lot, youknow, like literally, and so when

(30:03):
I'm you know, when I wasinteracting with those things, there was two
different you know, like there therewere things going on like my childhood of
you know, my dad leaving wasimpacting how I dealt with my my situation
in my marriage. So it wasimpacting that. But by God's grace I
had I had already started counseling andthat type of stuff. So I was

(30:27):
able to begin to dig deep.And the amazing thing is is that once
I started dealing with going back tomy five year old self and dealing with
the loss in my of my father, then I became stronger over time.
It took me about eighteen months fromthe day that I called d days,

(30:48):
the day that like I learned aboutthe infidelity that was going on in my
marriage, to eighteen months later iswhen I was able to walk away.
I wasn't strong enough. It tooktime. But there is a total difference
when I dealt with my heart attack, Like it was like I went into
all that culmination right of everything Idealt with emotionally physically during that time kind

(31:12):
of culminated in that heart attack.And the way I describe it is that
I went in and I died andI rose again, Like I essentially look
at this part of my life nowsince my heart attack is a resurrection.
And so now that's why, likeif you look at it, I think
I've done more up to after theheart attack in the last year, you

(31:37):
know, year and a half fromthat than I did prior to, you
know, just because I know thattime is of an essence. Yeah,
I'm glad you talked about that too, because people don't see the time,
you know, that goes into this. They're like, so people don't fully
understand. They hear the end result. I mean, it's just like any
championship story of an athlete or anything. You don't know the story that built

(32:00):
it, like you know, andthen the afterfall, right, you know.
That's was the prime motivator for myfirst book. And and and somebody
recently asked me that, like whatI was on a podcast, this wasn't
online, and they asked me,you know, what was the motivator?
It was literally, yeah, itstarted with people asking, but the final

(32:21):
straw was the week where I finallypenned the paper. Was I had five
different people make these assumptions or makethese statements that I've had a good life,
that I've always had been genetically blessedor something that like I've got good
genes. It's easy for me tostay lean. I'm like, you have
no idea, Like you have noidea. I've worked my tail off.

(32:42):
This is a daily story, likeyou know. And so I'm glad you
brought that up because you know,I've even heard some of it. And
and you're welcome to share whatever vulnerabilityyou want, because like the shirt I'm
wearing today, there's there's strength andvulnerability and and you still to this day
have that story like it's it's it'snot like you get the divorce and you've
got kids, right, and sothere's that Like I don't like to use

(33:06):
word baggage, right, So Idon't know if you have a different word
for that, because I think that'sI don't like that because it's like the
kids and there's other thing. It'snot baggage, that's odd, that's a
gift. It's just a challenge.So I don't know if there's another phrase
you can make up today. Butyou know with that, it's the story
continues and you've got got to stillshow up as a father, which has
got to be hard, right,And and so i'd love you to talk
about that. I think the hardestthing through that whole process was to be

(33:36):
a father who was there for mykids when I wasn't even there for myself.
Oh, by the way, forthose that are listening, he's had
heart attacks. He's a relatively healthyguy. These aren't just health I mean
they are health related. But whiledealing with this I didn't mean to cut
you off, and I'm like,I realized I need to mention that because
people are just listening to this thiswhole time and they're just assuming it's the
typical American heart attack, which maybeit is now the typical. But did

(34:00):
you talk that and then talk aboutbeing a father in a divorce? Well,
do you want me to go intothe story of how it happened.
Well, it's more stress related,right, Well, I, well,
so I do have a genetic dispositiontoward uh, you know, my just
high cholesterol and stuff like that,which it you know, I didn't catch

(34:22):
it in time. And then ontop of that, though stress is the
silent killer like this, I thinkthere is a you know, the stress
induced the and sped up I thinkthe the heart disease and the and the

(34:43):
you know, just my heart beingblocked in those blockages, you know,
and it ultimately like just almost killedme. And he just recently had an
episode, you know. Just that'swhy we're here for the second time.
So I wanted to clear like justbring that up because you know, a
lot of you probably don't even knowfrom the genetic piece to the stress piece.

(35:05):
And then all of a sudden right. Well. The thing is though,
is like I was doing CrossFit forten years. I was thought it
was hiding pretty well. That's howwe met, was in CrossFit. Like
he's a fit guy, he's ahealthy guy, he eats good, he
moves a lot, he's got agood mental mindset. So it's just I
wake up every morning and you know, I meditate and stuff like that.

(35:28):
But when when what happened, Ibelieve is when I was hit with the
infidelity in my marriage. Every stressfulthing. That's how I wanted to came
culminating to the front and became frontand center. And I was navigating through
that and at the same time tryingto hold a job, trying to be

(35:52):
the best father, trying to figureout dinner. You know, there was
a few months where my ex wifewas in and out of the house,
Like it just was a crazy situation. And so like here I was trying
to manage it with you know,with my with my kids, and I'm

(36:13):
not showing up well anywhere, youknow, I mean work. I ended
up getting furloughed through COVID. Solike on top of finding out COVID hits,
I lose this job that I hadjust negotiated the most money I've ever
made in my life. So life'sgoing pretty good at this point for you.
Yeah, exactly lost his job fora load, his job, Yeph,

(36:36):
losing his marriage, having stress geneticheart attacks. Yeah, so finding
that joy in those moments. Well, And the thing is is once I
sitting there, you know, reallyinteracting with death does something to you.
Like I was already in the trajectoryof like reapplying, like the things I

(36:59):
knew, you you know, mymeditation practices, my journaling, like I
was always already on a good track. And then I had my heart attack.
And so when that happened, likeyou know, I was alone because
you couldn't have any visitors yet,the COVID rules were still in play.
Lonely. Oh, it was crazy. So somebody likes to be around people,

(37:21):
as you mentioned, Well not onlythat, but I mean, like
I didn't know if I was goingto see my kids again, right,
I think those situations really come tothe forefront. But when you know,
I got through it, like I'vebeen able to navigate it. And I
think because of the things that wereput in place already, counseling, journaling,

(37:45):
you know, working out like Igot back to all the main things
for me and not allowing like theother thing is too. Is like I
realized that I need to show upfor myself before I show up for others,
as we talked about, and thatbecame front and center. So I
began to really think through, likewhat is it that I I You know,

(38:07):
if my funeral were today, whatwould I want my kids to remember?
You know, that's one reason whyI even started my podcast was you
know, I was listening to asong and it talked about like essentially,
you know, this person not rememberingthe voice of the individual who was most
important to them, and I thought, I want my kids to remember me.

(38:28):
I want to give them something toremember me by. So it's like,
you know, my my desire isn'tjust to be heard and seen and
known. It's essentially I have thingsto say, I have thoughts to give,
but I want my children to havea remembrance ultimate I think also,
I mean, I think a betterway to say it is you want them
to remember you, not just simplyremember you, but to have a piece

(38:52):
of you, a legacy of somesorts that gives them a step better than
you did. Rightly, you knowto know a little bit of that,
like and I think that posed Iwrote this down. I think it poses
a great question for us all youknow, you know, imagine it's a
tough one, you know, butI encourage I'm going to do it later.
So there you go to pose thatquestion of if you're in a hospital

(39:13):
bed with no visitors and you onlyhave one or two days left, what
would you do? You know,you've already pretty much answered that, but
I'm I'm asking the listeners, theviewers. I mean, we don't want
to face those types of questions.And it does not gonna be morbid.
It could be joyful, it couldbe a bright spot, it could be
but what if we don't. Forexample, my wife's grandmother just passed away.

(39:35):
They realized she didn't even have awill will and she was ninety two.
So maybe that's what you do.But I'm just giving people ideas,
like we not that we I don'tthink we walk around all day. We're
gonna live forever and you know,nothing bad is gonna happen. I think
we all realized we could walk outour front door and something back. It
happened, but we don't do anythingabout it because we don't actually take the
time because we're too busy in ourminds and to pause and reflect. And

(39:57):
we're all guilty. I'm guilty ofthis. That's why I like that question
came in, and I'm gon topose that question myself and start making a
list of I've done a little bitof this, but I can always go
deeper and further, like things Iwant to do. I mean, that's
why I wrote, you know,That's why I do the things that That's
why I do this podcast, mykids, my grandkids. People could pick
it up. I know you doa podcast which you know we're getting there
on time, but which I wantto bring up. But yeah, continue

(40:19):
man. Yeah, So I thinkthe biggest thing though, that you know,
if anyone can take away something,is what are the mindsets that you're
living with? You know, whatis it that drives you? What are
you passionate about? That's something Iask every candidate I talk to you,
like, what is it that youare passionate about? What drives you on
a daily basis? And you cananswer the question for work, you can

(40:42):
answer the question. For family,you can answer you know, any any
way. And the other thing isis like what three things if you could
create you know, your next whatever, what are the top three things it
would you know need If you wantto create a great family experience, what
are the top three things that youfeel you need to be able to do

(41:06):
that? If your next you knowstep in your life, this next phase
of your life, you know,if you could create it, what top
three things would make it great foryou? You know what I mean?
Stuff like that? And what itdoes is it really because what I dealt
with from the time I was fiveto the time that I started dealing with

(41:27):
my wife's infidelity and moving past that. I didn't recognize it until then,
but I had a victim mentality,and so when I looked at life,
I looked at it through the lensof a victim rather than and so things
were happening to me but not necessarilyfor me. And I think that's one
of the biggest takeaways I get fromlike the personal growth you can take,

(41:52):
you know, the Carol Dweck.I always talk about Carol Dweck. That's
a book that really changed me.It's mindset conversations, you know, is
the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset, and the focus of it is how
can I grow through this and howis this an opportunity that's for me and

(42:14):
not against me? And that's thepoint, Like all of the things that
I went through, I began torecognize, these are not against me,
These are for me. These arechallenges that are happening. Yeah, some
of them are due to my choices, some of them aren't, but they're
there. So I have to dealwith the reality and then make the choice
to either be a victim or lookat it as an opportunity of how can

(42:38):
I grow? What is this for? And find the meaning in it?
And I think when you begin todo that, things just begin to change.
Yeah, I mean, I verylike at a young age, turned
my adversity, my trauma from ait was probably pessimistic with the little optimism
sprinkled in in that, like iflife sucks, this bad to be a

(43:00):
point to it. Like that's that'ssome of the words I said to myself
with that. You know, it'sit's it's growth. You know, I
gotta make a difference. I gottamove forward. This is just life,
and so it's I'm realizing that.You know. It's just like you know,
coal has always been a coal anddiamond has always been an image in

(43:21):
my head a lot, you know, and just how we're diamonds are created
and and so I look at thatlike how some of the and then why
I'm so fascinated with art and creation. And I talked about it inadvertently at
the beginning of this podcast, becauseyou know, we don't realize how these
things are molding us and creating us. We just have to see it.
But if we fail to see ittill the day we die, then we're
never truly you know, gods orwhatever you believe in the greatest creation.

(43:45):
And I also want to say thatthat doesn't mean you have to be top
of the mountain. Maybe your storyis to be challenged your whole life,
and then your kids will see howyou work through that. Maybe it's to
be a millionaire. Maybe it's sowin a business. I don't know.
Maybe it's just to be the bestmother. Maybe your purposes to be the
best father. Maybe it's to bethe best father through a divorce and while
still managing work and all these otherthings and trying to create a business or

(44:06):
whatever it looks like. So,man, I think that's anything else you
wanted to share on that. Yeah, So you got some cool feats that
I want to point out. Youknow, he talked about some things going
on, but reading over forty booksin a year, right between forty and
sixty depending on the year. Wheredid that come from? Why? And
can you share how this habit isgoing to influence or is influencing your growth?

(44:30):
That's great? May I recommend abook, but you recommend one?
So yeah, I think you knowgrowth mindset start there? Where it came
from? Was I read somewhere thatCEOs read between forty to sixty books a
year? I was a I gotmore time. I'm just kidding. That's
what people are saying. I alreadyhave seen it until they got more time.

(44:51):
But no, what it did isit it gave me the opportunity to
get on par with you know,individuals who are hire in a corporate situation,
and so I'm reading the same booksthey are and so I'm able to
have deeper conversations and really have goodinteraction with them. And I think that
that's an enablement to career growth withina corporate situation. What advice would you

(45:17):
get? So you backtrack? Sofor this guy's high school drop out,
two master's degree, you know,divorce, all these things that he's mentioned,
just bringing the ADHD people up tospeed here. And so with that,
you know, what would you sayto somebody who's maybe got a similar
struggles with education ADHD. What whatevertheir story or whatever story they tell themselves,

(45:39):
is what advice would you have forsomebody to, like, maybe they
want to go into education or whateverto accomplish some feat like that. Yeah,
that's a good question, I haveadd and so I have a hard
time concentrating. And so what Idid come yep, exactly what I did
to overcome a lot of that wasI would read a book and listen at

(45:59):
the same time. So what Iwould say is, first of love doing
that. By the way, Ido that too. I retain it like
the Bible app I use and otherthings. Man, sorry to interrupt,
I'm like, I do that too. So it works exactly exactly. And
the thing is where you start,you know, isn't where you end.
That's what I always say too.So the beginning is just the beginning.

(46:22):
It's an ultra marathon. It isyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so talk about some of theother things you like, your daily routine,
some commitments you have to help theylike through all these adverse moments that
you're doing to strive every day.Yeah, good questions. So it's changed,
it's morphed, But essentially I workout every day. The key components
are working out every day, meditatingevery day. I also do affirmations,

(46:45):
I pray. I also write gratitudes, and then I sit in silence.
Like the biggest improvement for me waswhen I would just take fifteen to thirty
minutes complete silence in the dark inthe morning by myself. Yeah, and
that's something I struggled with and Ihave talked on here multiple times because I

(47:07):
want to. I think it needsto be reiterated. And I always assume
that somebody might be listening to thisshow for the first time, and that's
quieting the mind. Could be oneof the most difficult things many of you
do, but there's immense value init, and it's going. If you're
like me, I'll say that forme, it's not necessarily daily, but

(47:29):
it's a weekly struggle. I mean, I've been I found it. Let's
say I'm forty three. In myearly thirties, I started doing it and
it was like a battle. Itliterally was like a warring fight up there
against the noise, and so forthose that can relate, and I haven't
shared it quite in that detail.So that's new, and it's a progressively
gets better and better, but there'sstill days where the noise wants to come

(47:51):
in, and so there's it's likelittle skirmishes now compared to like massive civil
war type battles. And so ifyou have yet to do fifteen and thirty
minutes is a lot, but theamount of it started at three minutes.
Yeah, I think might started atone, you know, So not to
beat you out, but I thinkliterally that's all I I maybe thirty second,

(48:13):
I think too. We have toremember also is give yourself grace and
be empathetic towards yourself because we thinkthat we think that our morning routine or
our routine is gonna save us.That's not the point of it. It's
how can you what are the elementsthat you need to present your best self
in this world and then go withthose. Yeah. I love that you

(48:38):
said that, because people question meonline. It's literally for that, you
know, to be the best self. It's not to save me, it's
to guide me. Like you know, people say, my wife assumes I
enjoy jumping in you know, fortydegree water every morning for five minutes,
and I still don't like it,but I feel better after and it gives

(49:00):
me this sense of calming because I'mforced to go into breath work and calm
everything because if you freak out right, that's where you start to freeze.
And so and there's other things Ido And that doesn't have to be your
tool just because now it's super popular. I've been doing it for like fifteen
years. Whatever gets you to bea better human to get up in the
day, right, you know,and you share this on your platforms and

(49:22):
you've shared it here today. Anyother little nuggets that you'd like to share
like that, like you know,in the spirit of strive through C five,
like a mantra or philosophy that youhaven't really touched on in here today,
whether it be daily, weekly,monthly, that's a good question.
I think for me it would bejust have empathy for yourself first, and

(49:46):
then allow yourself the opportunity to growat each situation that arises in your life,
Like don't sit there and think thatanything to find you, especially things
that happen to you or things thatyou even things that you do that are
wrong, Like, those don't defineyou, They don't define me. What

(50:09):
defines me is how I respond,how I grow through it. You know,
what are the lessons that I learned? Those are the things that are
going to define me essentially. Yeah, let's talk about that real quick.
Like empathy, that word I feelgets thrown around, sympathy, empathy.
I'm not one to use sympathy,especially when I learn the root of where
sympathy comes from. If you wantto talk on that, you can.

(50:30):
I'll let people google that one.But empathy, man, you know,
let's just dive into that word.What does that mean for me? Well,
what it really means is being okaywith not being okay. What it
means is that we can look atourselves in love rather than judgment. So

(50:51):
it's love over judgment. It's graceover judgment. You know. It's really
understanding, like seeking to understand ratherthan to be understood, you know,
And it's it's and you start withyourself, you know. Yeah, And
I take that away right there.I think that's a great way to in
this show. You know, youhave to love yourself before you can fully

(51:15):
love others, and you can doboth in the process. But man,
you've got to appreciate yourself. Andyou know, I like to use the
term we're all masterpieces in progress.You know, love yourself because if you
don't, no one else can.I think that's the challenge in a lot
of relationships. We all and we'reall false to this. I went into

(51:35):
them in my twenties. We gointo these things without really loving ourselves,
hoping that someone will love us enough, make us feel good enough, and
it always will fall short, rightevery single time? Right, Yeah.
And I think the biggest thing forme in the change because I did.
I strove so much to be thegreat husband, to be the great father,
to be the great you know whatI mean, like prove your worst.

(51:58):
Yeah, and then when that wasdestroyed, that's when I began to
really build. And now I feellike I'm a better person than I was
even then because I'm doing it notto be seen, but I'm doing it
because this is who I am,and this is life until your last breath.
It's it's work, but it's goodand it could be joyful and it'd
be amazing and impactful even if it'sthe best work you do is on yourself

(52:22):
exactly. So I think that's agreat way. Thank you, Mike.
This has been fun. I gotto know even though we talk and we
meet and this is cool and itwas good to go deeper side. And
if anything, I hope people thatcan relate and connect will reach out to
Mike and also you know, behelped. You know, maybe maybe something

(52:43):
resonated with you in this episode,or maybe you know somebody that it will
resonate and if so, that's theperson that you need to share with,
you know. That's that's how thisshow grows. It's not for me.
This isn't a show that I makemoney off of. It's a free service
for you. So like, share, subscribe, we think everyone. As
this Strive three sixty five podcast continuesto immensely grow, especially here in twenty

(53:06):
twenty four, we are so gratefulfor all of you listeners and viewers here
of the show. So thank youfor turning into another episode of Strive three
sixty five. Take care,