Episode 2 | Fate's Hand: Can We Change Our Destined Course?

In this episode, we dive deep into the timeless debate that has captivated philosophers and religious thinkers for centuries: Fate vs. Free Will. Can these two forces coexist, or are they fundamentally opposed? Are we truly in control of our life's outcomes, or is our destiny predetermined from the start? Join us as we unpack these complex ideas and explore whether we shape our own path or if it's already been laid out for us.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Hey, y'all, this is Erica with Students of Life podcast.
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(00:58):
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Speaker 2 (01:12):
Welcome to the Student of Life podcast. I am your host, Courtney,
and with me is my wife, Erica. Say hello, wife,
Hello wife? Really are we this this? How were starting already?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes? It is always okay.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
All right, well you guys again, it's my wife, my
hero and training you know, so so please you know
she's working on this a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
So that's very polite to you. Thank you. I'm Erica,
not hero in training, not sidekick.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Are you sure? I mean? Because I've been working with
you a lot on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I am positive and your work is not working is
it not? It is not.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, I'm trying my best, so I'm being a bad hero.
She's my hero, and training.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
You're a bad teacher.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh damn. Okay, well I gotta go back to the
drawing board.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Wrap it up, let's track.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
All right, Well, let's get this show on the road.
And so this episode is about free will versus fate.
You know, we honestly don't know how long this episode
is going to take, but we're going to get it
all out the best that we can possibly do it.
Are you ready? Wife?

Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm ready?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Oh well, I'm bad, not wife? Are you ready to herka?
I'm ready because you're your own person, right, all right?
But all drugs aside. I really want to start this
episode off on a with the something positive for sure.
You know it's something that you know you did here recently,
you know, with one of our neighbors excuse me, and
you did with our neighbors, you know, with the with

(02:50):
the baby bit. Oh yeah, you know you did something.
What I say is great because I would have tried
to sell it to him, you know what I'm saying,
that's just me and you gave it to him. Man.
I actually appreciate that way more than ever settling it
to him because it was way more beneficial. So I
just wanted to least say, you know, that was that
was an awesome thing that you did, you know, for

(03:10):
the neighbors.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Thanks. I mean we got our use out of it, right,
We've had that bed for thirteen fourteen years.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, got more use out of it with our second
child and we ever did the first child.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah we did.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I guess you know that's a little bit of
faith too. You know, whoever would have thought that we
kept that bed just for the second child and not
the first.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
One, not me because I didn't plan on having a second.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well talked about it. We talked about it.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
You talked about it.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh, here we go, Here we go. But regardless, you
did a great thing with the neighbors. Though I don't
want to say that.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
She was very happy, and that made me very happy.
It really did. Yeah, the bed went to somebody who
was right around the corner, someone who was actually in need.
And I think I told you I got to meet the
little baby that day. Yeah, he ran outside. The baby
did not know me, never seen you before, but he
ran up to me. You wanted me to pick him up.
And he gave me the sweetest hug, and I was like,

(04:09):
oh my heart, yeah, oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I'm glad I was, you know, you know, because
you know how I feel about goodwill. I don't like
to beuiness model and how they generate the majority of
the income and where it goes, you know, But that's
just me, and I'd rather have given it away to
someone who was actually in need of it than someone
who was, you know, sittling and make a profit off

(04:33):
of it.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
And that's exactly what I did. That's why I gave
it to her.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, So you did a great job. Thank you, thank you,
you did a great job. All right. So, as we
get into this episode about fate and free will, what
is what is fate? What is free will?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
So fate is the development of events beyond a person's control,
regarded as determined by supernatural power. But the word fate
also traces back to the Latin word for tune, meaning
that which has been spoken. Now I have a question
about that.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, does that.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Mean that if someone never tells you what's going to
happen to you, is it still faided to happen? Now,
on the flip side of that we have free will, right,
which is the power of acting without constraint, or of
the necessity of fate is the ability to act at
one's discretion.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, like the majority of excuse me, like the majority
of things that I've come across and or read with
that first question, I honestly believe that, you know, those
things majority of the time wouldn't happen, depending on what
it is, Depending on what it is. I mean, it
was just like in the matrix. This is an example

(05:51):
when she told him, hey, watch out for the vase.
When she said watch out for the vase, he said,
what vase? He turned around and knocked it down. She
said at that base, he said, but what's going to
make your cookie is? But you still have knocked it
down if I hadn't said anything. Yes, right, And that
is a story of the majority of things that happened

(06:11):
within Greek mythology.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, you know, you know, so everyone always goes to
see the oracle or the fates, and then after that
they go on this long epic journey and whatever happens
to them is predestined at that time. I guess you
could say.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
No, it's not necessarily just predestined, But I was always
concerned with the fact that what they always tried to
do was always try to avoid the things that the
oracle always talked about. That was the biggest problem that
ever happened within the story. You know, the oracles always
played this part of you know, telling them what was
going to happen, knowing they were going to try to
avoid it, and it was going to happen anyway. Like

(06:49):
the people thought that they were going to avoid it
because they knew what was going to happen, not knowing
that they were putting in place, they were.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Taking the steps to make those exact things happening happened.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's what they were actually doing, you know, And
I found that interesting. But I think I found that
even more interesting in our life. And we will get
into that more so, you know, within this episode, hopefully,
if we don't forget it at this point, you know.
So you know, but it was like here recently, you know,

(07:21):
like with recent events, and you know, because you really
don't like talking about it, we talked about it once.
You know, what happened on Trinity's birthday is the lake
at the Lake. But of course anyone who's listened to this,
you don't know who Trinity is. Trinity is our first
our first daughter, no, our first kid, let's put it

(07:44):
like that. And she's now twelve years old. And we
went with her, you know, we took her on the
boating trip, no to say this lake in Mississippi. That's
what we did. And the event that we're talking about
that Erica doesn't really care about talking about is the
fact that she know and I know event took place
that I could have died and I was going to
but it was very likely that I could have, you know.

(08:06):
And that was the event that I was in the water.
But before I said I was in the water, what
was going on? It was this It was a storm
front kind of coming through.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
The wind came out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, it came out of nowhere, but in Memphis it
was raining at that point. Though it was raining, but
it came through where we were and the water started
to get a little choppy, and while we were rapting,
I decided to still get in the water. I'm like,
you know what, Okay, I might be all right against
my better judgment because the water was choppy. I shouldn't
have done it. I did it even though I shouldn't
have done it, you know, And so we get in

(08:40):
the water having a great time. You know, Eric getting
real crazy with the boat, you know' she's a crazy
boat driver, you are. You know, nobody wanted me to
drive the boat because I was planning it too safe
throughout the day.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Sure fought in my mind. We had fun when I
was driving.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Oh we did, you know. And I cared about people's life,
you know, but we had lifejaggers.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
We were fine.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
It's okay, but you know, you still you know, I
cared about life a little bit more than you did.
But with that being the case, you know, I fell off.
I fell off the I fell off the raft, which
was part of it. It was part of it. And
when I fell off the raft, and it's like some more.
The moment I hit that water, it's like the water

(09:23):
got worse.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
It did. Out of nowhere the ways from I think
it was. It was coming from from from the south.
It was coming it was like a south wave. It
was coming from from the south. And I could, you know,
I could barely if I turned my head to the right,
I could not not take water down. That water hit

(09:46):
me two times. It hit me two times. I was like, man,
I can't take this. I couldn't take it. And I
know you remember that. I remember it because I told you.
The water hit me twice and that's when as the
the water hitting me, I was like, Okay, Courtney, you
can't take too many more of these waves. You just can't.
And so I waved you. I waved you, but the

(10:10):
boat wasn't moving. The boat wasn't moving. And just to
put this in perspective, that boat was about forty five
yards away, and I think, and I think I'm being
generous with how far that boat was away. Yeah, And
so I waved you and the boat wasn't moving. So

(10:30):
it was a decision that had to be made. Hey,
you got to get to this boat because if you
don't swim to this boat, you won't survive. And so
I had to swim diagonal against the waves, swim dagnal
against the waves. And it was tough because every time
I turned my head to the right, the waves were
still hitting me because they were there strong. They were
then strong, and I couldn't stop. Even though I wasn't

(10:53):
trying to take the water in, the water was still
coming down my nose I didn't tell you that, but
it was the fact. But I kept swimming. I swam.
I swam until I got back to that boat because
I knew, based off how it happened, even if you
wanted to come out there and save me, you couldn't
because we had two kids on the boat pretty much. Yeah,
mad it was twenty three, but she was still a kid.

(11:15):
She was still a kid. You couldn't come and save me.
And even if you did come and get me, both
of us may not have made it back to that boat.
It's a big possibility. But that's exactly what went through
my head. So the only person in that scenario who
could save me was me. So at the end, I
made it back to the boat. And I questioned after
that one, I questioned a lot, you know, was that

(11:38):
fate or was that free will? You made a choice,
That's what I was wondering. And whoever listened to this,
you know, might be wondering this because of well you
made it. Well I did make it. And what's that
in my fate? I don't know, because I had bad
experiences with water previously swimmer at all. I'm not a
strong swimmer. Yeah, you know, I'm saying I swim good

(12:01):
enough just to save my life. But even then, you
still could have died. I could have died with a
life jacket on, because in that situation was called it
was like flash drowning or flush drowning. It was one
of the two where you know you're not being taken underwater,
but the water's hitting you so frequently where you breath,
you can't breathe, and it could have happened. But four

(12:24):
days later, after I talked to you, that's when you
know it really hit me how bad for some situation
that I was actually in. I said, hey, when I waved,
I said, hey, why didn't you come? And you told
me I couldn't see you.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
You said I couldn't see you, you know, And that
one was like, well damn.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Mm hmm, I couldn't see even because I couldn't see you,
I wasn't going to drive that way.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, And so the whole person, you know, the whole
thing is the only way out of it was me
saving me in that scenario. Either there was gonna be
my day to leave here or you know, now.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Do you use your free wheel? Or it was wig
just my will.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
It was just my power to not give up, my
will to not give up, the will to live. That
it was will to live. Correct. It was a choice
I made, you know. But if it was a few
things that saved me that day, it was just right here.
For one, I was not in my head. Ah, you
ain't down on your daughter's birthday, not a twelfth birthday. No,
not a twelfth birthday. There will not be something you remember,

(13:23):
no ever. No. And then the other one was I
didn't panic. I didn't fear death.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
You never heard.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I never have, not like that, no way, because I
had a little bit of control in it. I had
some no control. And you know the outcome of that one.
I can fight for it. You know. Sometimes you call
it in scenarios where you can't fight for where against
your will? You know what I'm saying. But that one
I could fight for.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah. But even still, like I said, you made a decision, right, yeah,
because you could have waited until I figured out how
to get the boat there. You could have to take water,
and you would have you probably would have drowned because
those waves, I mean, they came out of nowhere right
like we were there. We were having a good time,
you were in the water and it was you know,
there's normal waves and then out the blue as soon
as you felt the raft. I don't know where those

(14:07):
damn waves came from.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
I have no idea, but we know how bad those
waves were because when we were hitting back out, we're
hitting back out and they pushing the boat. It was
pushing the boat back, and the waves it was hitting
the boat was actually flooding the boat. The boat was
not flooding, flashing, but it covered the entire the entire
floor floor of the boat. Yeah, that's that's how strong

(14:31):
those waves were. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
But you know it's crazy though, Like once we got
you out of the water, next track on the boat
and you were all right, and we started to head out.
I know it for like a long time, but checking
my phone, it was only about the whole thing happened
in the span of about ten minutes. Eat you on
the boat, Get you calm, Get me calm.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
You men, get me calm.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Fine, that's what I said, Get me calm right now,
you said you first, and then and then to start
heading out. But once the was gone because it never rained,
you know, so once the wind was gone, the water,
the clouds broke the selm would shine and we hung
out for about another three hours. Yeah we did so,
still in the water, so having a good time, opposite

(15:12):
side of the lake, but still had a great time.
Nothing never happened.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
But you know what, no, you know where I jumped
back in the water that day, not because I have
really cared to jump back in the water. You know, honestly,
I want to go fishing again.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
You were the only person wanted to fish.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, But you know I jumped back in the water
because I knew they was afraid. I knew it bothered them. Yeah,
and if I didn't get back in there.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
They never would have No, they wouldn't have so, but.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I wouldn't afraid, no way. So I'm like, no, we
don't end a day like this. This is not how
we end the day. This is not the fate of
our day. You know, this day was go in on
our on our own terms, and not because of something
that happened like that. But you know something that kind
of I'm not gonna say it did kind of bother

(16:06):
me when I thought about it, you know, safe instance,
it was this, if I had if fate was gonna
take me that day, right, if it had taken accordingly
that day, it wouldn't have You know, if if the
Sisters of Faith wants to clip the streams that day,
it wouldn't have been because we want to take this
guy because he's afraid of death. Oh that's not it.

(16:33):
We're gonna take him because he's gonna leave things undone.
He wants to complete some things, and we're going to
make sure that he doesn't get that those things done.
Whatever he wants to rectify, he'll never be able to
do it. It all be in the past. It only
be a wish. So with this, I guess argument of

(16:57):
free will versus fate.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
What do you think about Well, as you know, I
am not a believer in faith, just based off my
life in general, rightly just and this is just me personally,
not just not about anybody else. There's not anyone that
I know, anything I've seen. It just simply falls back
onto based off my childhood episodihood, what I should have

(17:23):
been I did not become. Right, So I definitely believe
in in free will. I believe that we have the
choice and the option to change any outcome of their life.
Right of course, without the exception of like terminal cancer,
or terminal disease. You can't change that, right, nothing you
really do about that. But as long as you are healthy,

(17:47):
sound mind, soundbody, able to get shited done, your fate
is your own. It's whatever you make it, right, Like,
there's not one person walking that could ever look at
me and tell me your fate is gonna be all right,
Let's dial it back to a second. Based on the

(18:09):
area I came from, right in my background, how I
grew up being ready for my grandparents, not having parents there,
type of friends I had who I gravitated toward. I
should have very much been in a quote unquote that
single mom's club and shit like that. That's what folks
would have said, right, But I took a different path

(18:32):
because I chose differently. I chose not to be like
those people who are around me, and I refuse to
believe that that the dice of my life resides in
someone or something else's hands, Right, Like, if I'm gonna
do this, then me and the universe we're gonna rock together,
and they're rocking together, We're gonna make this shit happen.
The way that I wanted to the way that I

(18:54):
want my life to go is exactly how I was
gonna go. There's not some larger force out here telling
me what I'm going to to be, what I should be,
how I should become. I refuse to believe that. I
don't feel like that my name is written in the
book somewhere saying oh, this is Erica's end, Nah, that
I don't subscribe to at all.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I agree partially, partially, you know, philosophically, you know, they
call this, you know, determinism versus free will. I'm not
a hard determinist because I believe both of them exists,
and they technically say both can't coexist at the same
time at the same time. If you believe in one,

(19:36):
you can't believe in the other. It has to be
either or yeah, you know, but I believe that they
both exist, even though I believe that, you know, things
that are predetermined have a higher probability of happening. But
I do believe that, you know, free will is a
thing also at moments in time, in moments in time.

(20:02):
But you know, you are to me an anomaly because
I've been with you for a long time and I've
seen it, you know, and you know exactly what I've
said about it.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
My dumb fucking look, your dumb fucking.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Look right, how things played out, and that this is
the one thing that has actually, you know, boggled me
over the years, you know, because I like philosophy and
I'm like everything. I'm not saying that you didn't have
your challenges, That's not what I'm saying. But how things
fail into place. I thought it was one of the

(20:38):
most phenomenal things I've ever witnessed. And I'm not saying
it because you're my wife. I've never seen it, right, well,
you've never seen it, never really read about it, right, No.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
That's the thing. But again, I honestly feel like that
is because from the time I was able to make
my own decisions, I did you know it was? Oh,
Eric is such a rebel, Erica has an attitude problem,
Erica doesn't do what she's told. You know, it was
all all those.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Things, right, Yeah, I've been trying to tell you what
to do for a long time. You still don't darn't.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Do it, and I'm not going to damn all right, okay,
but like but but you know, but seriously, though, like me,
not following the path that anybody laid out for me
is what got me to where I am today. I mean,
that's just being honest, right, It's there's no there's no
blueprint I've ever followed. I just there's there's been a
point in my time where everything fell apart and I

(21:32):
had to pick it all back up. Like there was
a point in time where I literally had nobody, nothing right,
like I had had you, but outside of you, I
had nobody and I had nothing right. So that's why
I'm such a firm believer in sometimes things have to
fall apart in order for you to put them back together.
And that's not always a bad thing. Like going through it,

(21:53):
it feels like, you know, it's one of those things
like God, why just happened to me? What did I do?
Why do I deserve this right? And a lot of
people give up at that point, but I am so
stubborn and so bullheaded that it becomes I refuse to
be what everyone says I should be, or our refuse
from my outcome to be anything that anyone predicted.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
And also sometimes your faith, I'm not gonna say, sometimes
screw that. The majority of the times our fate are
it is tied to the people that's around us. Yes,
it is and we have to accept this, Yes, we
have to. You know, my faith ain't just my fate.
My fate is tied to Erica. Erica's fate is tied

(22:37):
to Courtney. Yes, the friends that we hold, the friends,
all of it, it all goes together. So I can
only be as good sometimes it's the things that's happened
around me. Or I can be as good as I
want to, But if I have some people that's around me,
that's not that good. My fate is still tied to them.
You know how many people's fate were tied to people
who they was driving with who never killed anybody, but

(22:58):
went to jail for the rest of their damn life.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yes for just being in the car, yes, Or right
on the flip side of that, right, somebody who went
for a joy ride when let's say, maybe they weren't
supposed to, right, and now you're in the car with someone,
you have a wreck, and now you're both dead. You
stealed your fate in that moment.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Folks would say like, well, oh, well, his fate was
still when he got into that car. Now, just because
I don't believe in fate for myself, right, that doesn't
mean that I can completely explain away either, right, what
do you mean?

Speaker 2 (23:33):
All right?

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Example, now, as I've said, I feel like free wheel
has led me to where I am right, not fake,
not determinism, none that shit.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
You can say what you want to say, okay, right,
but again this is this is my existence in what
I have lived. You you've still just been someone on
the outside looking in. Right, You've been here most of it,
but you very much will be on the outside looking in,
just like a lot of other people.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I'm all knowing, Daby, I.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Said something you can't say on the podcast. But now
on the flip side of the right, we can use friends, right,
friends from your high school, friends from mine we had.
We have friends both of us whose childhoods were just
fucked up. Right, And you've heard it, I've heard it.

(24:30):
We've I heard somebody tell somebody, you know, well, if
you keep doing what you're doing, you need to be
dead or in jail. Religious people say that's that's them
speaking life or or speaking death on somebody, right, But
philosophers will say, oh, well, you determine their faith. I

(24:50):
don't see a difference there, honestly, right, because so now
I'm living, I'm doing doing this shit I'm doing every day,
and then doing this thing that I'm doing every day,
whether it's out on the street, coin there, you know,
selling drugs, robbing folks, whatever I'm choosing to do. Right
in the back of my mind, my mama told me,
if I don't stop, this shouldn't be dead or in jail.
Which one's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Well with that right there, whether they listen to the
mother or not. And I know what we say from
the beginning, you know about what the oracles say, you know,
they speak the fate about what's supposed to happen or
what's supposed to transpire, and then it still happens. In
these cases, these aren't just stories. These are a real

(25:35):
life events, yes, that are happening. So whether that mother
said something or not, that we're still going to happen
with this, With this scenario, it was still going to
happen because there was a bunch of events causing effect
determinism that led up to it and there was nothing
that he was going to do to escape it unless
he had the will to do so, and the majority

(25:56):
of us don't.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Right, So again, right as what what I mean saying,
since the geggo, is that shit's free will?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
That wasn't free will.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's not free will. So so he didn't or they
your friends, my friends, They didn't make a decision to
keep the what the hell they were doing.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
They made the decision which caused everything to still transpire.
But they made the decision based on everything that happened
to them previously, everything that they went through, all the
causes effects that made them make the decision in the moment.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
All right, well check this out, right?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Did they But did they have the will to change
their mind? Yes, they did, but they did not. But
they were a victim. They were a victim of determinism
that were.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
There's a quote by Terry Pratchett. I read it to
you earlier and we laughed about it. Right, Yeah, it
says most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and
you don't find out until it's too late that he's
been playing with two queens all along. Right, So let's
just say, in this situation, right, you got somebody who
is essentially gambling with their own life because you got

(27:02):
one or two options, death to jail. It's a gamble, right,
They're both terrible fucking outcomes. Like there's not a good
outcome there at all. But now, let's just say, the
whole time you're doing this, your pieces are being lined
up in the background by somebody else, or by something else,
not somebody, by something else, right, and that being the case,

(27:24):
by the time you figure out that all of your
pieces are being laid out by something else, a greater
force or whatever people want to call it. Right, by
the time you find out, you're either laying on the
pavement bleeding out because you got shot, stabbed, beat to death, whatever,
or you're now in jail. You're doing some kind of
fed time. I'm saying fed time because bad time is bad.

(27:44):
It's day to day. Right, you got thirty five forty years,
you're thirty five years old.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
But this is what I call, you know, a divine conspiracy.
You say, these two things don't these two words don't
work together. Maybe not. That's fine, But whatever's happening here,
this is not just a human doing. Do I think
that some of us are playing a role in it

(28:11):
because they understand it? Yeah? I do. Maybe that's conspiracies
in me and I'll go with that. Fine, But this
right here is much bigger than all of us.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
So so you believe that there's gods or something bigger
playing a role in all this and and fate and
there they're battling to see what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Busy Bone said this was Heaven's movie.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Really Yep, the craziest Bone is the one you want
to you want to quote right now.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, maybe not the best example, but it's still a
Heaven's movie.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
But show you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
But overall, I believe that we are experiencing something or
playing a part in something that's much bigger than us.
When we're talking about fate and the outcome of our life.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, I really do to divine conspiracy and all things and.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Majority of the things, yes, I do.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
So what is outside of the scope of divine conspiracy?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
And you I don't. I don't.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
I'm saying based on based on what would we know
you and I know how you divine you define divine conspiracy? Right,
you said most things, not all things? So what is
outside that.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Scope divine conspiracy? Okay? And we were dealing with a
kid who's been messed with when he was young or
when she was young, Okay, molested molested, Well we'll use that,
you know, they was molested, and then they never had
the they never made the choice of who and what
they were. And then as they become teenagers they think that,

(29:43):
you know, hey, you know what, I like girls, I
like boys because of what happened, you know, and they
never got a chance to pick and or choose, you know.
And now they're adults, and they still believe and they
still think that way. It still works, and it's still
played out the same way. You know, they never got
to make a choice along the way of who or

(30:03):
what they were. It was made up for them from
the beginning. And so to me, the divine conspiracy and
that is the fact that they were supposed to be
there from the beginning and they never had the choice
to make on their own. That. You know, it wasn't
just a person that did that. That happened outside the
scope of the individual's life. Because even that the individual

(30:27):
who enacted that deed and made them turn to that
something happened to them too. So it was outside the
scope of just human deeds that did that. We are
who we are, or we experience the things that we
experience because it's much bigger than us. We don't always

(30:48):
get to determine the outcome of our life all the time.
We don't. It's much bigger than us.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
So based on I just wanted to make sure I'm
on the same page as you're.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
So, based on what you just said, that means that
somewhere along the line, it was predetermined that this child
will somehow across the path of this predator, and this
predator will turn that child either into a whore, a
man who a gay guy, a lesbian woman, or just

(31:24):
someone who is does not matter like extremely bisexual, hyper sexual. Right,
And that's their faith that that was their fate from childhood.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Based on how things played out. Unfortunately, Yeah, and I
don't like that. I don't like the idea of that. No,
I don't. But that's how it ends for a lot
of people. They never get to the they never change,
they never get the choice to say I wanted I'm
something more than what something created me to be. It's sad,

(31:59):
but it's damn truth.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Okay, So so so an intermediary there could also be
that person getting therapy right and healing from most things. Yes,
so now so now we have taken into account that,
now we have it act at our free wheel I
completely changed faith.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
That is correct, correct, that is correct. But we also
need to understand this, uh you know, is this right here?
The things that we go through, we're not supposed to
know that we can't fix them. We're supposed to believe
we are. Yes, we're supposed to believe that we're supposed
to be able to fix them. But in all reality,
the majority of the times, we're not supposed to be
able to fix them. The things that we go through,

(32:37):
they're supposed to.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Be They're supposed to break you.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
It's supposed to break you, and it's supposed to be
the outcome that is expected. The majority of the time.
Only a few of us get away, Only a few
everybody don't get away.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Most people don't know we're being honest.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
We don't. Most people get caught up in the life
of determinism, calls and effect, and they stay there for
the rest of their damn life. I don't like the
fact that that that's the damn the outcome for people's life.
I don't like that, But I can't escape the patterns
and the reality of it either. Because as you you
love free will, know you believe in free will.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
I do believe in free will you.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Believe in it, But a lot of us don't enact
it now.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Just because people dont enact doesn't mean it's not real.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
But it is real. But the only way that it
becomes real to me with my theory is that we
haven't make a decision. It's so it's so big that
it can't help but to change the trajectory of where
we're heading.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Absolutely, and I live by that because I did it right.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
It has to be that big, you know, it got
to be so different from what I've experienced that there's
no you know that it's no relation to what happened.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
It has to literally be life altering.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It has to the decision has to be decisive.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yes, that's it, But we know someone who did that?
Who you know if people have done things like that, right, Like, well,
just back to me, right. I feel like when you
when you when you take the power from somebody else, right,
or the power from some say, somebody's words. We will
just say that, right, the power from somebody's words, when

(34:14):
you when you step out on your own and you
pretty much say fuck what you've said about me, fluck
with has happened to me? I'm not letting that determine
who and what I'm going to be as a age, right?
Or what about you have a kid who was, say,
was molested right from an early age because usually you know,

(34:36):
the grooming starts around four or five, six years old
because people are disgusting, right, so the grooming starts. Then
then this child is abused, right for years. Then you
have this child who gets to say middle school, high school,
even before they go to college, and they say, you

(34:58):
know what, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing this.
I'm not letting what happened to me to find who
the hell I am? Right? That that is that that's
a free will that that's where free will comes in.
That's a choice they made because that they should have
and very well could have been a victim, and it
could have been explained away could have been and that

(35:18):
would be fair, right, because what happens, what happened to
them is really fucked up and is wrong. Right. So
the fate that someone laid out for them, they didn't
choose that. They didn't take that laying down. They legit said,
bet let's fight, then let's go. It happens.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
It happens, Yeah, right. But again that's purely free will,
because fate says that child should have either been another
kind of a predator, right, like a sexual deviate, a
sexual deviate or I'm molested themselves or a complete recluse. Yeah,
because that happens, right, you know. And one of the

(35:59):
great musical minds of our time, R. Kelly is a
sexual devian because of what happened to him in his
childhood that.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
He couldn't overcome it.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
I'm not saying what what that man did was right,
That's not what I'm saying. But someone sealed his fate
for him early on.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
That's determinism only effect.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
He did not have, never tell anybody, he never got help,
he never had he had never had resources. Right. But
this other kid over here also didn't tell anybody, didn't
have help, didn't have any resources, because he enacted his
will to be different. So that is why I stand
firm on free will. We all have a choice, we do.

(36:38):
We all have a choice.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
But this does not stop the fact that we fall
majority to fate.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
No, No, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It does to determinism. And also, to get back to
that question you asked, because I know I didn't answer
that for because I had to ponder over for a
second and it was a good ask question, you know.
It was like, you know, what it's outside of.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
What is outside of the scope of divine conspiracy?

Speaker 2 (37:08):
And honestly nothing really, I'm sorry, but think nothing is
outside of that because if it's bigger than us, then
it already knows it.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
All, so it's all encompassing.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, I don't think nothing is outside of this divine conspiracy,
you know, I honestly believe that. You know, like some
men and women collectively big powers, they understand this and
even they of course aren't free from it either, but
they understand it, and they keep people that they with.
So if that makes sense, it does. I hope that

(37:42):
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
No, it does make sense. So what you're saying is
people that have the power, the powers that be, will
to say right, because I can't see for other cultures
or other countries, but in America, the powers that be,
they are out here stealing people's fate.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, but because fate is also those things that are
that are outside out of our control.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
That's exactly what it is, outside of our controls.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
And so we don't see it. We don't see it,
but it is happening as we speak. Okay, you know
what I'm saying all the time every day. All right,
you know, we'll use this. We're from Memphis, Okay, we
grew up in the city of Memphis. We saw what
it became from from our youth up until today.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
You mean we went from drug dealer music to drugs
selling music, I mean drug using music.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Right, yeah, but we'll just use just the city kind
of like in general. The schools were much different then
than they are now. Oh absolutely, yes, And so I'm
not saying this to be negative, but it progressively has
gotten worse in.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
The last five years.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's gotten worse.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
It's gotten so much worse, right, yes, So starting.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
At the end, you look at the economy. Okay, and
you know where I'm heading with this. I do you
know where I'm heating with this, past conversations a million times, right,
you know. So we start at the end and say,
look at the local economy first logistics. Yeah, if you
look at the local economy and see the jobs, and
then you ask the next question, why the schools so bad?

(39:09):
Why are we always having a fight for schools and
better schools? And it never happens. Well, once you look
at the local economy, you'll realize that better schools are
never going to come. It's gonna always be a fight fed.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
X these workers, ups these workers. And now Amazon is here.
Amazon needs workers, Minkey needs workers.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
And every other logistics company in our area. So it's
why do and why will we educate people when this
is the type of worker we need.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
You wouldn't you wouldn't. It's not good for your economy.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
It's not good for the local economy. And so if
you ask me, that's just me my theory how I
feel about it. The fate of our city of Memphis
is going to always be this. The schools are never
going to get better. Crime may not ever get better
at this point.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I don't think that it will.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I never will.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
It is heading in the inerture trajectory of that of
like say like Detroit. Right, yep, you know you had
the big carmakers there right before they were sent overseas
or whatnot. But the same things happened there.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Correct, But most urban places. I don't know about all
urban places, but I would imagine that it's the same everywhere.
You look at the local economy, the jobs that need
a certain type of worker. They need that worker, and
they will never focus on the academics of the school,

(40:35):
how quality the schools are, and the majority of schools
that's going to always do well. Close of those communities
are always going to be on the outskirts.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
So what you're saying is our public school system is
still in the fate of children every day. I mean, well,
so like, wait, what do you remember what the statistic was.
I don't remember the exact I can find it and
do it another episode later. But if a child can't
read by the time they leave second grade, third third grade? Okay,
so you know where I'm going with this grade. If

(41:05):
a child can't read by the time they leave third grade,
they're more what was it like sixty percent more likely
end up in prison?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, somewhere around. I think a little bit higher. I
think it's higher than that.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
So I guess my question is why are we not
parents schools? It's not just on schools, right, I will
I will never blame just a school system, but so
why are we not working harder to make our church
and more intelligent? So does that mean that we ask
parents along with the school system, are helping us sell
Ourtridan's faith.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Oh yeah, definitely. Just like the last episode was about
you know purpose. You know, you know you can do
when you deny people somebody. When you can deny somebody
purpose you ask me you're still in their faith?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Then I I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
If you deny somebody purpose, you're going to see their
faith and they don't have many choices. And you know
how this happens. You make it enough bad choices. If
you make one bad choice, it's bad enough. It can
still your fate at the age of fifteen. Oh yes, yes,
you know what I'm saying. Yes it can. But as

(42:13):
an adult, you don't realize how many bad decisions you've
made until it was too late. Yes, that's when we
end up realizing that, like damn, it's over. I mean,
can you still make an adjustment? Yes, we can all
make an adjustment. We can all be who and whatever
we want to be. But when we think about fate
as the end, sometimes our end comes after we see

(42:34):
that it's that we can't do nothing about it. The
older we get, the harder it is to change it.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Correct. No, correct, I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I do. Let you know, can we Yes, we can,
we can change it. We can change it. We can
change it, but damn it's gonna be hard.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Well, you know, it's like whenever you get to be
with thirty thirty five years old, working hard ass jobs
your whole life. You got maybe three of kids, a
couple of are there baby mama's baby daddy to do
it with that stress by hisself. I mean having one
is bad, but damn, now I got two three to

(43:09):
worry about and deal with. I gotta fight with these
people on a daily basis. And now I want to
do better for myself and for my children, But now
I got these other two, three, four obstacles in my way.
You stilled your own faith, and I mean that's my opinion,
right because unless you are someone can who can? Really?
I mean they dig your feet in and get dirty,
right and just pull yourself up.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
And you know, anybody like that, we'll pull theyself out.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Actually I do. I can think of I'm sure I
know more than one, but there's one I can think of.
With the high school with her like Sis was pregnant
ninth grade, tenth grade, eleventh grade, twelfth grade. She couldn't
come to Prong, but she was in labor. Yeah, now
she was pregnant by the same guy right every one
of those years. I mean, but she's a nurse today.

(44:00):
She said she's an expectationer. So in my opinion, I mean,
she had she dealt with one dude, but the fact
that she had kids starting at fifteen sins life was
hard and didn't have to be right, didn't have to
be that. But it took her until we're damn near
fort to finish her degree because she she just did this.
Like I was just congratulating her on Facebook. I'm not

(44:22):
gonna hear her name. I'm not gonna out anybody, but
you know, and I was like, since you did. You
went through hell to get here. But see if you
did it, like you should be damn proud of yourself.
Because she had to fight for that damn degree. It
was hard. Think about it. You got a girl who
is three years older than our daughter, who had her
first child and had a child every year after that.

(44:45):
And what's worse is she was messing with a dude
who was in his twenties when she was freaking fifteen.
He could have very well sealed their girl's fate, and
for a long time he did.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah, but will free will she made a choice.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
She went to her kids got to the high school,
graduated or got to high school, and then she went
back to school. But she had to start from pretty
much nothing. She's her all the way over.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
But that's a good example of free wheel though.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
That's my that's my point.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, but that's a it's a great example because she
was not supposed to.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
She was not supposed to, but she did it.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
But I think that she didn't get the message that
she want supposed to be successful either. She wasn't supposed
to make it. She didn't get the message she was told.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
She Yeah, that's what I like. Somebody left the voicemail
and sister leader it. Yeah, she didn't keep it.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, Now that that's a hell of a that's a
hell of a story.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, and I'm super proud of her. I've known her
since like sixth seventh grade.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah. Yeah, it's you know, just conversation, you know. Just
to put it even into more perspective, there are movies,
you know, you know that explained this, whether we see
it or not.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
About the movie buff.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
You don't have to be a movie buff, but everybody's
seen one of these movies.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Though our movie friend is not here now he's.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Not here, but he will be one day. He will
be one day.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Shout out to Steven.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, Stephen, Yeah, that's for you, you know. But but
it was pulp fiction.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Alsove pulp fiction. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
It's polpe fiction. Who is talking about We're talking about
Vincent and Jules. I knew it, Okay, it's Vincent and Jewles.
It was the moment when he was shot at, They
were shot at and the bullets went around him.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
The vine intervention.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
He said, so are you telling me that God came
down here and stop these bullets? And he said, yes,
God came down here and stop these mother bullets. That's
exactly what I'm saying. So to get to the point, okay, y'all,
is this right here? We had a scenario with those two,
one with determinism or faked and the other one was

(47:05):
free will Jewles. It was straight free will. Yes, because
he was a hit man. He was always supposed to
be a hit man. There was nothing else better for
him to do out there in the world.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Nothing. He was a damn good hit man.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
But he was a damn good hit man, you know
what I'm saying. Vincent, He was a hit man supposed
to be one for the rest of his life. That's
what you're supposed to do. Matter of fact, he even
even presented to him. He said, So what you're gonna
do just you walked out there here, he said, you know,
you're just gonna be a fucking bomb. That's what You're
gonna be a fucking bomb. He said, I'm just gonna

(47:40):
walk out here like Cane. I'm just walk you know what.
And but with that being the case, Jewles didn't die.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Jewels did not die.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
He did not die. But you know who did. Vincent died.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
You know what I'm saying, free will?

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, that was free will. Jewels made a damn choice.
He said, you know what, I've been doing this, but
I don't have to. I don't have to do this forever.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
But you know that you're making my case for free will, right.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
But I've always But I also made the case for
determinism too, because you know what, Vincent died.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Vincent did that.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Vincent died because he didn't change cause and effect whatever
made him that way, he stayed that way and he
made a decision to stay that way. So actually, you know,
not am I making your case. I made my case,
and I won't.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Did you I did?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
You know what? No? You know why? Because they both exist.
We always try to act like they can't coexist.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
They do, but they do.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
They do, but they do.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
I don't think it's this is not fate versus free
will is not a black and white thing, right, It's not.
It's really not. It's kind of like one of those
necessary evils. You can't have one at the other. Yeah,
they have to, like ying yang, right, they balance each other.
You cannot have everything faded or everything to be free will.
It doesn't work if you do. You have to have

(49:13):
balance in all things. You know me, you have to
have balance in all things. Right now, that being the case,
I chose free will. Right. I have another relative who
I love dearly, who is in everything they were told,
super duper grown. Now they say, have no idea what
to do their life. Yeah, because someone told them what

(49:34):
they should be, what they could be, or more so,
what they wouldn't be. And it's what that wouldn't be
is what they have become. I don't subscribe to that.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
So question where you think all it started at?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
You know, I have thought about that so many times.
I really really have.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
The date of free will, and you know, determinism versus
free will where you think is started.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
At maybe technically or speaking about writings, it would go
back to the Bible technically speaking right now, I don't
know when it started being debated outside of that. But
if you read, if you if you read the Bible,
pick a version, any version, doesn't really matter which one,

(50:28):
which one you read.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Right, a version, any version, you get a.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Version, you get a version, you get a version, but
it doesn't really matter which version you read. Fade and
free will goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. Yeah, right,
because somebody be at the DM fig.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
He killed his brother. That was a choice, it was.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
But the thing, would you know, I agree with you
with that one, with this because because that's as far
as I can go, you know, when I know the
debate is maybe because that's the one we have all
the time. Anyway, Yeah, you know, you know, hey, it
all started because then you know they had free wheel,
Adam and Eve, you know, had free wheel to bite

(51:12):
the fruit. Yes, whether it was a fig, an apple,
or peach or banana, I don't know, a pair, It
don't matter. It was something that they chewed on Okay,
some of the sweet free it really doesn't matter, but
they did it. Yeah, but I think that this is
partly where me and everybody else, but definitely part of

(51:32):
the ways.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Uh oh, even you're gonna be controversial, aren't.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
You do it? Maybe? Do it? Maybe, But I believe
that whole thing was I ain't gonna say the whole
thing because my whole argument is this right there. It's
determinism or free will. And you know, determinism and free
wheel can coexist. They do, they do, They really do. Yeah,

(51:57):
you know what I'm saying, you know. But but that
being the case, I believe there was more determinism. The
outcome and in biting it fruit was predetermined more than anything.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
They were a part of a game.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I do believe that was a part of a game.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Because you can't live in forever.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
No you can't, I know, that's what. Yeah, you know,
you can't live in the utopia forever. You know. So
it was many things that was in place, if you
asked me, that made them in a position to bite
that to eat the fruit. They was going to eat
their fruit regardless. So what we have is a tree

(52:37):
with a fruit that they can't touch in plain sight
for one, it's there.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I mean, but in the beginning though, it was hidden
in planes like correct, until the serpent came.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Right then we had the serpent. But that surfing could
have been anywhere it could have been, but it was
exactly where they were. It was where it needed to be,
where it needed to be, where needed to be put,
you know. And and God was all known, He knew everything,
so it wasn't any surprise mm hmm that was gonna happen.
But this is what was it? Some free wheeling there. Yes,

(53:13):
there was only a little bit, but not much because
let's be real, Adam and Eve didn't know much.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
No, they did not.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
They were they were and not Eve like a child.
They were like a baby like this right here. Give
you an example or or scenario. We got our son, okay,
we got our son three years old. If we leave
markers out, then okay, we're gonna leave some markers out
and say, hey, son, don't touch these markers. Don't touch

(53:43):
these markers. You know what's gonna happen with those markers.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Our walls are not gonna be white.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
They're not. No, they're not.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
And is that his fault?

Speaker 2 (53:51):
It's gonna be a chaos pain.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
But he's gonna be it's gonna be a pollock. Yeah right,
But would they would that be his fault?

Speaker 2 (54:00):
No, it wouldn't, because we shouldn't have put it out
there anyway.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I agree. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yes, we shouldn't have put it out there if we
didn't want him to do that in the first place.
I agree, because you shouldn't put all things in the
way to make that outcome happen if we didn't want
it to happen.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I agree with you. So yeah, determinism, huh.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Right, it was, but they free will, the innocence of
the free will was used against them. It was because
they knew no different manipulated. They didn't know anything about consequences.
They didn't. They didn't they didn't know that they did not,
but they had to bite that fruit. And the reason

(54:43):
why I say it was determinism and free will, but
more so predetermined than anything, because life didn't begin until
they left the garden, and then until they left the garden.
So yeah, if anyone wants to say, you know, God,
don't play games, we'll ask job. That's that's another one
for another day. Well ask job. Yeah, yeah, yeah's ask him,

(55:08):
you know, so that right there that started. You know,
life wouldn't have started if they never bat that fruit
in the in the first place. So they had to
bite the fruit. So yeah, it was definitely predetermined. The
outcome was predetermined.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
So not only was that that outcome predetermined, that this
goes back to our past episode as well, our first episode.
That was their purpose. If their purpose was to initiate
and begin life. They couldn't do that being innocent.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
They couldn't. They couldn't have done it.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's not what happens in innocence.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
And it was only after they left the garden that
these things became a sin.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Yeap.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
So their purpose, their purpose was to be used. I mean,
I'm being real, right, Their purpose was to be used
and manipulated so that all life could begin.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I'm not going to say the purpose was to be
used and manipulated.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Okay, that's kind of what you just explained. But okay,
all right, okay, whatever, that's what you explain. I'm just summarizing.
I'm just giving cliff notes.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
But yeah, but that was played from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
They were very much so.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
But that that goes back to and that's just me,
just I'm not adding anything to this.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
You can read it. It's there. It's right there in
plain takes.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yeah, it was. It was. I'm not adding. I'm not
you know, giving a narrative of of anything that's not there.
I'm not. I'm not doing what preachers normally do. Oh wow,
yeah I said that. Oh you took shots, you know,
putting narratives on things that aren't there. We know how
that happens.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
So it's funny. It's funny you say that, right, because
real quick, before you go on with it, if it's
Adam and Eve. Eve started talking about another quote that
I wanted to mention. This falls into play right here
by Henry Miller. I read to you earlier regarding fate.
Destiny is what you're supposed to do in life. Fate
is what kicks you in the ass to make you

(57:15):
do it. So that serpent that made Eve like that
fruit became her fate. Yeah, that's what kick trying to
ask and I could go ahead and do it, and
that is what started life.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yeah, that's what started it. Yeah, you know, but the
roles that the serpent and God played wasn't too much
different from Greek mythologies. No, like the oracles, if nothing
was ever said, it.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Would never happened.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
It never would have happened. I agree, you know what
I'm saying. Yes, you know, so I found that very
interesting that there's a lot of similarities with that one,
with that story and how some of these other stories happened,
like with the story of is not to get in
depth about the story of you know what I'm saying,
But this was the one in Greek mythology. You know,

(58:06):
the king, Well, a king went to the oracles, and
the oracles told him. I was like, hey, you know,
one day you know, your son is going to kill
you and and marry and marry your wife. Yeah, And
so the king got rid of him.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
M hm.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
He got rid of him. And then one day along
the path, the son ended up killing the king, which
he didn't his father that he didn't know it was
his father. And then after he did that, he ended
up marrying his mother, the king's wife, which was his mother.

(58:45):
But the thing is, the question is, just like the
oracle of the Matrix said, would have happened if I
hadn't said anything, see, and that.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
And that is my issue with fate, right, It's because
if if it has to be spoken for it to happen, right,
how was it a real thing?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
I'm not saying that fate is not real, right, All
I'm saying is if someone has to whisper this in
my ear, or if someone has to has to spend
this narrative to me in some way, if I never
hear it, will it? Will it happen?

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Well, I'll asked you this. Who's actually spending the narratives today?

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Honestly? See that that is a question for another episode
in another day. But I don't think so, you know
what I mean. But it depends on it depends on
the industry you're in and what you do.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
You know what, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
So, so what are you saying, start to home with parents?
Are you saying starting home with the parents?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
No? I don't what you know? Who's spending these narratives
to us?

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Who us?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Now? You think we are? We are? We are predicting
our own outcomes like these oracles in these stories. That's
us because we have no one. We don't have oracles
telling us what the outcome of our life is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Excuse me, but Tarror readers will disagree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Okay, Well, that's fine until we come across one. Many
of us don't. Many of us don't. Okay, let's let's
get that and make that clear. Maybe I was saying,
come across a tarror reader, you know, But no, we
all the oracles. And I'll tell you this right here.
And it's not to go into detail about anything, but

(01:00:36):
some big things in my life that I try to
stop I try to prevent from happening. It happened exactly
the way try to prevent it. I tried to prevent
it from happening. Yep, and you know it several times. Yep,
the exact thing I didn't want to happen. It happened

(01:00:59):
exactly the same way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
So we are the steelers that are our own fate,
because we are our own oracles.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
We are because I was always wondering what role did
the you know, oracles play? If if we were related
to our day to day life, what role did the
oracles play? And where are they? It's us and so
wherever we end up, we end up because we are
telling ourselves we're trying to prevent something from happening. We're

(01:01:27):
always trying to prevent something from happening. I'll give you
that we're always trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Kind of like the child who doesn't want to bear
their parents and goes out of their way to avoid
being like their parents, only to end up being just
like their parents.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
That is correct, that's right. So is there anything that
you want everybody to know before we'll close the show up?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
And no more so, I want to leave you with
a with a thought to ponder on if fate is
playing chess, what piece on the border you you? And
what piece do you want to be?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
All right, well, that's a question to take what you
ever want. This has been a student life podcast, Live
and Learn Life is a lessons Atta