Ep 37: Fernando Hettiyadura: ‘Used responsibly, magic mushrooms can be more powerful than meditation’

“The one who needs to be loved is the one in the mirror. And if we can love ourselves so deeply, we can love even a stranger and see their suffering,” says Thailand-based Fernando Hettiyadura, a Multidisciplinary Therapist and ICF-designated Master Certified Coach, who leads unique interventions derived from integrative neuroscience, Vipassana and psychedelic plant medicine. He has also launched the world’s first-ever Professional Coaching Qualification for Psychedelic Integration, accredited to the International Coaching Federation (ICF).

A part of the LGBTQI+ community, Fernando faced bullying as a child, along with other adversities. His first encounter with psilocybin or magic mushrooms, he recalls, left him feeling lightheaded and with a sense of abundance, realising for the first time how it felt to be mentally healthy.

He also quotes modern breakthroughs in psychedelic research led by esteemed institutions such as Johns Hopkins and Imperial College London, on the healing and mind-enhancing capabilities of Plant Psychedelic Medicine. While mentioning the beneficial effects in alleviating depression and anxiety, he cautions that the session should be conducted in a controlled setting, following strict safety protocols, after consulting with a medical expert and with the correctly prescribed dosage, in keeping with the laws of the specific country or region. Certain drugs, such as antidepressants, may also interfere with the process, therefore, expert guidance is essential.

Fernando is also the founder of Ignite Global, Evolving Temple, Awaken Mind Guide and the Global Center for Reflective Practices & Consciousness – a group of organisations dedicated for healing and mind development. Currently, he is pursuing a postgraduate degree in Counseling Psychology and conducts research, focusing on “Psilocybin-Assisted Therapy Integrated Coaching in Treating Childhood Trauma”.

His message? “Let’s be open-minded; every powerful resource has positive and negative impact, it’s important we pay attention and recognise the possibilities.”

Timestamps:
01:15 Talking about psilocybin or magic mushrooms as part of Fernando’s life coaching practice
07:25 How Fernando discovered the “power” of magic mushrooms16:00 Understanding our default mode network and sense of identity
24:25 Does the experience help you discover who you are?
31:10 Comparing the effect of psilocybin to meditation; experiencing altered states of consciousness
45:00 Dosing and micro-dosing
56:26 Fernando as a “wounded healer”, healing from the adversities of his early life
01:02:54 Overcoming adversity in his early life; facing bullying and assault as part of the LGBTQI+ community
01:05:45 His first encounter with plant medicine, waking up with a feeling of abundance
01:10:00 Fungi as the most powerful ecosystem on earth

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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Welcome to Swishing Mindsets.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is Anaradha and we have here with us today,
Fernando Hetiodura. He is a multidisciplinary therapist, an ICF designated Master,
certified coach, and founder of Ignite Global Evolving Temple, a
Weakened mind guide and the Global Center for Reflective Practices
and Consciousness, a group of organizations dedicated for healing and

(00:23):
mind development. Fernando leads unique interventions derived from integrative neuroscience,
vipasana and psychedelic plant medicine. He sees himself as an
empathetic catalyst for the growth of professionals and organizations. He
has also launched the world's first ever professional coaching qualification
for Psychedelic integration, accredited to the International Coaching Federation. Welcome Fernando.

(00:48):
It is so great to have you here.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Thank you Anrada for having me, and also thank you
for the great introduction. I appreciate and I think it's
such an honor, such a privilege to be with you
here sharing this really curious space. So thank you for
having me.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yes, curious is right word. You're basic thighland, right, that's correct, yes, okay,
So thanks for taking the time to talking for talking
to me here, So let's get right into it. You
know what attracted me to, you know, get in touch
with you was you know, uses silo sibans.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Which is magic mushrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Right, So the first thing that comes to your mind, unfortunately,
is so that's drugs.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know, that's addictive.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
So you know, I think let's just start with that
first of all, and then we can get on to
everything else. So how do you counter that or how
do you explain that, you know, as part of integrating
that as part of your poaching therapy, which you've been
doing now for eighteen years, right, mm hmm, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
All right. I think I'm actually really grateful for this
question because it's important that we approach these conversations with
highest accountability in terms of how we share powerful knowledge
while guiding our audiences in the right direction. So let's say,

(02:12):
as we begin this conversation that our intention here is
to educate and harm reduction with that, so I would say, yes,
you're right. Often people have heard about psychedelics as a drug,
the reason being that it had been classified under our

(02:35):
cotics during the time when US initiated war against drugs.
So if I go back a little bit in time.
I think there are many agendas in the world in
systemic ways of thinking, including political systems, governments and so on.
And also I think there's a lot of lack of knowledge,

(02:58):
sometimes ignorant agenda and so on. So I think this
is the reason why some of these extremely powerful plant
substances have been categorized under narcotics. So when we use
the word drug, of course we could call a drug

(03:19):
a narcotic at the same time of medicine. So I
would like to be very clear and mentioned that if
you look at for an example, to be more scientific,
if you look at the Drug Harm Index from the
US the Independent Committee, you notice that the drugs that

(03:39):
we see often like heroin or alcohol in the index
is about out of one hundred, around seventy percent and above.
And then at the same time, if you notice the
potential harm of magic mushrooms psilocybin in this case, it's
at the very bottom of the curve, which is about

(04:00):
six percent in terms of it is harmfulness. Now, it's
also important to understand what do we call by harmfulness here,
so we know that anything that alters our mind, our
brain in other words, psychology and neurology of our brain,
our nervous system could be harmful. For an example, drinking

(04:23):
and driving is something that we shouldn't do, just like
that when we take magic mushrooms, it has certain effect
on our brain our psychology that impairs us to do
certain day to day things. So if we engage in
things like driving, it might cause harm. So considering these elements,

(04:44):
there is a certain level of impairment that happens in
our brain. At the same time, however, it's not as
harmful as other narcotics that we know of, heroin or
even alcohol for that matter, which is the most common
available substance, and then a legal substance, let's say. And

(05:05):
then I would also say that certain plant psychedelic medicines
have been thoroughly researched and I'm very happy to share
with you that with responsibility based on the research that
came out recently from Imperial College London. Now it is
scientifically concluded and confirmed that psilocybin is not addictive, It

(05:29):
is not an active substance, and I'm sharing this with
full responsibility, all right. So I would say that's how
I would like to really address it. And also I
think there is another important element that I need to add,
especially considering I'm a practitioner in this space, which is
that if you look at any powerful resource that we

(05:51):
have access to, let's begin with the sun, Let's begin
with the ocean. So if we are exposed to the
sun in the wrong way, at the wrong place, wrong time,
it can be harmful. But at the same time, sun
is our life force on Earth. All the plants, all
the animals are alive thanks to the sun. And if

(06:12):
you look at the water forces like the oceans, like
the beautiful streams and the lakes that we have, they
are extremely important and valuable for our life in terms
of sustaining life itself. But at the same time, if
we use it in the wrong way, wrong place, falling
into water will also cause de So just like that,

(06:33):
any powerful resource that we can access will always have
both sides of possibilities, either affecting us negatively and also
at the same time impacting us positively. So it's not
uncommon to psychedelics as well. So I would say even

(06:54):
psilocyber magic mushrooms taken in the wrong setting without the
right preparation, right integration and care can also be dangerous.
So it's important that we access it with the right knowledge,
right care, set and setting and integration.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, thank you, Fernando. So it has to be done
in a guided way. I mean, one can't just sit
in a room and say, let's try it out. So
you know, yeah, so tell me your own experience. You
said that, you know, you've written that, you know this
is a magic pill, and you just discovered it in
your backyard.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
So how did you a coupon this?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
All right? So again, once again, I think these words
I need to approach very, very responsibily. I actually hold
the hold the the beauty of this experience. So I
like to use the word magic pill. At the same time,
I think many of us have definitions of words, and

(07:56):
I think that's something interesting that we need to also understand.
We do have our own perceptions, understanding and definitions to
specific words. So if you look at the word magic
in day to day basis or mainstream context, then we
recognize magic is illusion. Most of the time, that's what
we see as a magic show, magic display, or something like that.

(08:18):
It's an illusion. In my experiences, specifically with sacred plant medicine,
I have come to understand, recognize, and experience that there
is also certain metaphysical aspects to the universe that we
live in, often that we are not fully exposed to

(08:39):
or we are unable to truly comprehend fully. So in
my experience, I would say that there are certain elements
that for us human beings go beyond our understanding and awareness,
and it creates impacting ourselves in a way that the
human words cannot describe or our modern science cannot describe.

(09:03):
To me, this is what I actually call magic. But
at the same time, being very mindful, it's important you
already mentioned this. It's important that before we user specific
plant medicine, we become aware of scientific studies because it
helps us to create a gauge in understanding how safely

(09:25):
we can use them. Because when I am especially speaking
about this, I'm not talking about it myself using it.
I'm talking about using it for healing of other people.
So speaking as the practitioner, it is very important that
we have as much information, evidence and study research as
possible to become aware of us to begin with, and

(09:48):
then based on our preliminary understanding and experiencing this. And
so when we say magic, sometimes I would consider it
as mostly seen from a positive perspective magical magic, but
at the same time, which is also relating to our
previous exploration, I think there are risks in using these medicines.

(10:11):
So for an example, magic mushroom could catalyze extreme anxiety
during the experience. It could also elevate the trauma responses
if someone recalled a specific trauma which may have been
disassociated or forgotten for a long time, if it showed
up during the application, which is often called a ceremony,

(10:32):
a psilocybin ceremony or a psychedlic ceremony, if it came out,
the person could become extremely frightened. And also we will
continue to discuss that we don't have the full control
of our conscious brain during an experience like this, so
it can be even more challenging, especially if the set
is wrong, like the setting, how what is it like

(10:54):
where you take the experience, where you go through the experience,
who is supporting you assisting you person know how to
handle the situation like an intense experience like that. So
it's really very very important to make sure. Although we
could address this as a magical possibility, there need to
be the right precautions, right set and setting right guidance.

(11:19):
And also, once again the last I think to add
here this considering it as a magical pill, I would
say that the magic of the experience doesn't necessarily come
from the mushroom itself. Actually, the magic exists in our mind.
In other words, the healing self healing capacity awareness exists

(11:43):
in our own mind. So what these plant substances do
is enable that magical possibility that is within ourselves to
access that magical possibility within ourselves. So in order for
us to be able to maximize that experience, it's important
that we have a specific produc call in preparation towards
the experience, knowing what is going to happen, and how

(12:05):
do we prepare ourselves, what kind of intention we set,
and then going through the experience in the right setting,
with the right guidance, with the right practitioner, and then
most importantly this quite abstract experience putting it into reality
of empowering self. How do we apply what we experienced

(12:26):
during the psychedelic ceremonies, if not application into real world
benefit for our benefit, the wider world's benefit. So it's not,
like you very well said, it's not just we find
some muchrooms from our backyard and then sit in our
room and just do it. It's truly about undertaking something extremely
powerful with a deeper intention preparation. I think to conclude this,

(12:52):
I would say something like this, imagine if we were
to think about the deeper oceans filled with corals and beautiful,
beautiful uh sea creatures and fish and so on. We
could imagine how beautiful that world would be. But it
doesn't wouldn't necessarily mean that we would just sail a

(13:14):
boat to the middle of the ocean and just jump
out of the boat to experience that universe, that that
magical world we would have. We would need to have
the right techniques, practice training to dive underwater, and we
would most importantly need to have the right equipments in
order for us to experience it in a safe manner.

(13:35):
And then there need to be supportive support system around
it and so on. So I would say it's very
much similar to experiencing underworld, underwater world the beauty of it.
So this is instead of diving into the water, this
is diving into our own mind. So in other words,
when we dive into our own mind, it's important that

(13:56):
we are prepared. There's a safety protocol support around, and
then we also know how to derive development from that experience,
so it's not something that need to be taken likely
and maybe I'm not rather with that. I would also
like to add that often most practitioners why in this space,
are very pro legalizing towards these substances. If you ask me,

(14:19):
I am not necessarily an advocate of advocating in a
way that this medicine need to be widely available to
anyone and everyone whom you should be able to go
buy it just off the counter anywhere. In my belief,
it need to be legalized for therapeutic use, but at
the same time, it's important that it is controlled as well,

(14:40):
So I like it to be legalized in control setting
rather than it's just becoming available for anyone and everyone,
because that I'm very aware of these adverse effects that
it can bring in as well.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
That's interesting because basically it should be prescription based and regulated.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
That's what I would say. Yeah, yeah, at least until
we have I think there's still somewhat limited research, limited understanding.
We are still to really learn about these substances since
it has been illegal for a very long time. Unfortunately,
the modern science has had fewer opportunities to learn it,

(15:22):
but now many countries like including Thailand, is legalizing it
for medicine and research purposes. I think we have lots
of opportunities. So in order to come to conclusions of
how far it needs to be regulated, prescribed legalized is
still somewhat an area that we are still gaining more knowledge.

(15:42):
So I believe in the next few decades we will
have a much better understanding how they need to be
controlled as well.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, a lot of exciting things ahead, very true.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, So Fernando, you know, I'm just quoting from the
rite up on your side, you've said that you know
it helps clients break three break free from cognitive distortions,
blind spots, and default more network neural paths. So you know,
for all listeners, can you explain, you know, what we're
fighting against? What do we mean when we say the
default more network.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Oh excellent. I love this question, Thank you, and it's
also a fundamental question. I believe that we as human
beings need to ask ourselves. So thank you for the
space and rather well. In very short, default more sense
default more network is you, in other words, sense of self,
each and every one of us, like if you come

(16:34):
to think of it, if I really simplify it, just
imagine a little child being born, just a newborn baby.
The baby has inherited genetic material from mother and father.
Their parents inherited this material from their parents or in
other words, ancestry. So through the all the ancestors have
been giving contributing their genetics to the next generation. And

(16:58):
that's how the life comes to be. So when we
were just born, we were just that genetic material and
our experiences within our moms womb, her environment, her emotions,
what she ate, and so on. So when we were
just born, we are some genetic material and very limited experiences. Now,
when you were first born, your parents or someone who

(17:19):
loves you very much decided to call you on a rather,
but you were not born with the name as such.
And then that name gave you a sense of self
to begin with. And then your family members if they
practiced a specific religion, certain traditions, the way we have
access to food sources, and the school that we went to,
the friends we made, our social circle, we started building

(17:41):
this identity for ourselves. So if you look at default
more network, Default more network is a series of brain
regions in our brain and connected to our nervous system
as well, and they are linked. So it's not just
one single part. There are different parts of our brain
that are linked to create this sense of self that

(18:03):
we started building from the moment we were conceived and
we grew up with. So whoever we call, like, for
an example, you introduced me earlier, so you said, Fernando,
is this Fernando.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Is this all that?

Speaker 3 (18:15):
So that is all? Actually, really it's really more than
me and myself. These are my experiences, my associations. The
world that I have been exposed to has created this
identity for myself. So this identity is hosted in default
mode network. So for an example, if we go like

(18:37):
a little bit more detailed and have a little bit
clear understanding, what does it include? So default more network.
These different brain regions, there are many different brain regions.
Let's look at just a few of them. For an example.
Let's say medial prefrontal codecs. Now, this is the part
that is responsible for decision making, stress controllability, for referential

(19:00):
thinking like thinking about self, and social cognition. Things like
this are controlled by our medial prefrontal cortex. Now, medial
prefrontal cortex is part of the default modern network. Another
part is hippocampus. Hippocampus is responsible for forming memory, learning,

(19:21):
learning about emotions, strengthening these emotions, and storing them in
a specific way so that we can reuse them. Another
component we could look at is let's say posterious in cordex. Now,
this is self reflection, memory retrieval, emotional retrieval. So if
you notice each of these brain regions that I talk about,

(19:45):
they directly imply who you are. They directly connect to
who you are. So when all of these different brain
regions come together form its function, we are able to
create this sense of identity, end of self or the
ego as we would call mostly in the Eastern spiritual practices,

(20:07):
ego my ego? Who am I as a person? What
is my inner world? How do I identify myself? How
do I feel? How do I relct to certain things?
How do I reflect about myself? What do I know
about as myself? So this is what we call default
modern network. And to kind of conclude this sharing a

(20:29):
little bit, now, all those other things that I mentioned,
like it helps us to heal from strong conditioning. If not,
let's say certain traumatic experiences, adversities we have been through
growing up. Often these things that happen to us, like
even certain social beliefs, cultural conditioning, these are not necessarily

(20:53):
they don't necessarily need to be always positive, they don't
necessarily need to be always serving a person. Sometimes we
are bound by these strong beliefs understanding certain programming that
we have had into our default more network. So we
accepted to be this specific way. So just let me

(21:15):
be more practical and given an example, sometimes people would
say something like, I'm a hot tempered person. That's why
I am like this. Sometimes they may be quite aggressive,
they may be frustrated easily, and they would say I'm
a hot tempered person. So, in other words, in their
default mode network, in their sense of self, there's a

(21:36):
belief that they're hot tempered person. And then you would
ask why are you hot tempered? The person may say, oh,
because my mom was hot tempered, because my family members
are hot tempered, and I grew up in an environment
where I had to fight for things at all times.
For that, I need this hot temperedness and it's important
to me. So if that's important, then if they want

(21:58):
to be hot tempered that's not a problem. We don't
see people as that there's something to fix. But if
someone noticed themselves being hot tempered, and they said, I
want to be more relaxed, I want to be more calm.
I don't want to react to things with this hot temperedness.
I would rather like to look at life in a
more relaxed manner and not to be triggered, not to
be easily frustrated. When then that is someone who is

(22:23):
willing to look at their default mod network, if not
sense of self and recognize that this might this specific
hot temperedness might be related to a trauma that you
have experience. Maybe it's a cultural conditioning around your family.
Everyone is like that, so you thought you had to
be like that too, But what do you really want
to do? So there are opportunities for us when we

(22:45):
truly recognize that there's a sense of self that is
constructed in our mind as a result of our nervous
system and brain, we can work on them. We can
decide to change this identity, able to reform our sense
of self, if not ego, when we go through a

(23:05):
therapeutic process a deeper awareness so that we are able
to not be controlled by our own programming, and this
culturally inflicted, so socially inflicted, dramatically implied certain behaviors thinking
and emotion, we can change them to be something that

(23:27):
serves us better, something that we want to be. Because
when we were born as a little child, we had
no control over forming our own identity. As going to
school as a teenager, we had very little control over
truly forming our own identity. And we were not that reflective.
We were just in the race. But now we are adults,
Now we have come to a place where we can
reflect deeply within ourselves and ask is it true that

(23:51):
who I say I am or what this inherent controlling
telling me I am? Or is it something else that
I want to evolve into?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I want to become. So I think this is the
advantage of truly understanding defaulved network at a deeper level,
because it enables us to not to be, not to
have a fixed mindset thinking this is who I am,
I cannot change, I will always be like this. Rather,
it gives us an opportunity to evolve further into what
serves us, to become who we truly are in our

(24:22):
own deepest essence.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, so you know, fern Under, this question comes from
my mind that you know, are we discovering who we
really truly are?

Speaker 1 (24:31):
And all?

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Like you said that, you know, we can make ourselves
who we want to be. You know, we can create
a version of ourselves. So is does it do we
also get deeper and discover who we really are intrinsically?

Speaker 3 (24:43):
I think this is a really interesting philosophical question, like
a much much deeper question.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes, yes, I just went philosophical.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I don't mind. I actually really love this question. I
think it's both. I think it's both. The reason this
is my absolutely personal opinion. The reason is that if
you truly, if you may have noticed these things, maybe
on social media, because we have access to a lot
of information nowadays, if you truly bring a child, and

(25:13):
if you put put few children together and ask them
to play together, they will clearly treat pretty much every
child in that environment as similars, like skin color, languages
they would speak. There's this innate goodness in us as
human beings, and sometimes when experiences form us mold us,

(25:39):
we build our hate, we build prejudice, We become insensitive
towards people for their differences. For an example, and when
we go through a deep experience with default mode network,
almost reducing its power, like shutting the on those strong

(26:00):
beliefs we have. When we look at our environment, we
are starting to recognize those innate goodness within ourselves, innately,
innately wonderful qualities that we have as human beings. In
other words, I would say the love that we can
experience as a human being because we look at them,

(26:26):
we remove our colored glasses so that we get an
opportunity to look at who we truly are, innately, removing
ourselves from the difficulties, pain and the challenge, so we
see the beauty of who we truly are innately. So
that is I think, one of the opportunities to truly

(26:47):
harness that innate greatness, innate potential, innate power, innate love,
innate goodness that we have as human beings. At the
same time, however, it also gives us an opportunity in
the very scene similar way, but on the counter intuitively
what do I mean by that? Now? We also know

(27:08):
that as human beings, there are certain guiding forces of
this universe that require that is required by us. So,
for an example, procreation, the survival of consciousness can only
continue if we procreate as all beings, it's not only
just relevant to human beings. At the same time, if

(27:31):
you look at the animal world when it comes to procreation,
it could be as simple as a commodo dragon. It
could be as simple as lions or deers or frogs.
When it comes to the period that they meet during
the procreation, they would attack other males in order to

(27:52):
win over the female so that they can pass on
their genetics to the next generation. So there is a
certain amount of violence around procreation when we look at
the animal kingdom. At the same time, of course, as
human beings, we also know that there is violence around procreation.
For an example, we have heard about many rapes and

(28:14):
there are cultures of rapes in certain countries, and our
me being a South Asian, it's a topic that I
believe is important to be address, especially in this part
of the this in my part of the world, for
an example. So provided that we also are able to
recognize as much as there is innate goodness within us,

(28:34):
there are also certain qualities within us as human beings
that are driven by these survival instincts for both procreation
and our own survival. For an example, rape in this case,
in other words, by force impregnating a partner so that
we can force on our genes. But when we go

(28:55):
deep within ourselves and recognize that well, there are certain
evolutionary violence that is within us, evolutionary needs that are
triggering these potential violence within us, we are more conscious.
We are more aware the pain that could bring to
not only that person that we would attack or we

(29:19):
would violate, but also to the social circle of that person,
the innate danger in it for us as a civilization itself.
So I think it gives us not only to recognize
our innate greatness potential and also our innate flows, intrinsic
flows that as human beings. So then we have an

(29:39):
opportunity to recognize. All right, so this is a place
that I can build more discipline, I can build more
emotional regulation. So it provides us then a way to
live more harmoniously with our humanness, our natureness, if I
may use the word nature, like the part we are

(30:00):
out of nature. At the same time, we don't need
to be driven by those certain certain triggers, if not
certain ways how we are being controlled because we are
part of being human beings and also being part of
the nature. So if I summarize, I see that it

(30:21):
provides us an opportunity both to go deep within and
find who we are innately, all the goodness within ourselves
and embrace it. At the same time to recognize that
there are certain aspects of our behavior, are thinking, our
feeling that can also be altered or can be harnessed
in a way that it would be for the better

(30:44):
betterment of self, the communities we live in, the people
we love, and also our world at large. I would say,
so that we wouldn't see all the wars that are
happening right now if we had deeper awareness with in ourselves. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Now from a spiritual question, I'll get to a completely
clickbait question, as you say, so, you know, like I
remember in your session also and otherwise you know what
I'm what I understand is that this magic pill on
magic mushrooms, you know, psilocybins that you're talking about, it
resets your system almost instantly, huh, and which you know,

(31:23):
maybe compared to hours and hours of meditation, right, compared
to that, this is like a I won't say, a
quick fix, but it gets you there faster, right, So
is that true?

Speaker 3 (31:36):
This is yes. So I think addressing this aspect with
the more clinical, if not a research base, would be
valuable for those who are listening to us, those whom
we intend to inspire. So if I started at the
bottom for an example study conducted by Imperial College London,

(32:04):
and this is led by Robin Cahart Harris, it is
now evident through the neuroimaging results the default mode network
that we're talking about our sense of self. Certain areas
that post sense of self become quiet and if not

(32:26):
less active during the intake of the Celo cybern. So
when we ingest Cello cybern magic mushroom, which is found
in our most tropical countries backyards, when we ingested the compound,
psilocyburn breaks down to a molecule called silosine, and silosine

(32:48):
is able to bond really well with our serotonin receptors,
really very well. And when they bond in our brain
with our serotonyce, this possibility start to take place, which
is our sense of self is to reduce the activities.

(33:09):
The default mode network reduces it is activities.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Now.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Also, what is really interesting is that default mode network
is very much like the colored glasses that we are wearing,
it shapes our actions, it forms our beliefs. Everything that
we do comes through these lenses, and it is absolutely
very important because everything that we learn from a moment

(33:34):
we were born up until now enable us to survive,
be safe, and to operate in a specific way in
the world, build relationships and to have a strong sense
of who we are and how we interact with our environment.
And this is important for us to socially thrive together.

(33:56):
At the same time, when we do this in a
very specific setting, when the default more network, as the
research has demonstrated, default mode network become less active all
of as sudden, there's the possibility of us being able
to experience certain reality from a different, different perspective. It's

(34:25):
almost like what we called what we call altered states,
altered states of consciousness, if not perspectives. We experience outer
and inner realities without this involvement of the colored glasses
that we are wearing as default mod network. So this

(34:46):
is what we refer to as the word that you
use reset. Especially when a person goes through this reduction
of activities of default mode network through celoside for an example,
it can be extremely valuable in terms of people healing
from depression anxiety. With this reset that we create, it's

(35:09):
almost like those certain neural parts that we created association
in association of triggering depression, triggering anxiety, all of a
sudden become reset. All the connections that we made which
induced fear, which induced anxiety. It's almost like a great

(35:34):
realization that I no longer need to be afraid of this.
But this happens in a subconscious state. So that's the
truly power power of it. That's what you mentioned. By
either therapy or meditation for a very long time, someone
would do that because what we're trying to do is
make an impact in our unconscious mind, specific unconscious parts

(35:55):
like for an example, earlier I mentioned hippocampus, learning, memory, emotion,
So these areas. In order for us to change the
functions of these unconscious parts of our brain, we need
to do something repeatedly, over and over again for a
very long period of time. But what seal cylburn, for

(36:16):
an example, does is once we take this substance, we
are able to reset it if you have done the
proper preparation, if you're doing it in the right setting,
and then if we integrate it, it provides us that
rapid development. Usually, like if I speak of another study,
which is the Johns Hopkins Study, which is also quite

(36:39):
very powerful, and this is led by Roland Griffiths. For
an example. Now I have some in fact numbers in
front of me. So the Depression study, after one month
follow up, we find the people who were clinically depressed
all their life seventy percent clinically significant improvement seventy percent.

(37:04):
So we're talking about people who have been through psychotherapy
for like fifteen to twenty years and they have almost
haven't been able to improve. They just managed their symptoms
during the therapeutic process, and then about fifty percent of
the people full remission into normal mental health. So now
earlier we brought up the word magic pill, right, so

(37:28):
without really taking it out of context, if you look
at someone who has been through fifteen to twenty years
of psychotherapy worked very hard to overcome these difficulties after
one induction of psilocyburn, and in this specific study, if
I'm not mistaken, eleven sessions eleven therapy sessions and one

(37:51):
psilocyburn session, so actual ingestion session bring fifty percent of
the people who go through the experience only remission to
normal mental health. For me, this is quite magical. This
is quite miraculous considering the like looking at it from
a practical perspective without really getting stuck in technical terms

(38:12):
or looking at cynically. And then if you look at
the cancer study, one of the things people mostly suffer
or really go into is this anxiety of dying and lose.
It's really not about dying, it's really about people around them,
the loved ones and so on. So people experience very

(38:33):
heightened anxiety once they're diagnosed with cancer. So the same
study from John Hawkins, we find eighty percent of the
people who go through this after six months follow up,
they have decreased depression and anxiety in them. Sixty seven
percent of the people to about seventy percent of the

(38:54):
people say that it's the most spiritually meaningful or the
most most mean meaningful experience of their life. Now it's
important that we ask them then, what is this meaningful experience?
So something that they say that when we ask them,
can you tell us something equally spiritually or equally meaningful

(39:18):
to you in comparison to your Silver Cybern experience, They
would say death of my mother, birth of my own child.
So we can imagine when the father holds or the
mother holds a child, their own very child for the
very first time in their hands, and I think it's
it's definitely one of the most beautiful experiences, one of

(39:40):
the most life changing experiences to a parent, to a
close family member. So seal Cybern induction is equally powerful.
So one point five grams of magic mushroom that just
grows in our ecosystem, consumption of it in a right

(40:01):
setting could be extremely powerful, can be equally powerful to
the birth of your own child. So we need to
pay attention to something of that power. Right. So that
is cancer study for an example. And I think most
importantly often our systemic thinking, our perception about wellness, getting better,

(40:22):
healing and development. Often we think about it from like
an ailment perspective or illness perspective. We have to get better,
we have to heal if we are ill. That's the
general perception in the world because I think our medical
systems are unfortunately symptom management based. When we have a problem,
we go find a solution which is actually managing the symptom,

(40:46):
rather than truly we are going deep and try to
finding out where does this ailment truly come from where
is the root cause of this problem? So one thing
that through this research we find out is that these
powerful substances sacred plant medicines are not just only can
be valuable to people who are experiencing mental challenges emotional challenges,

(41:09):
but also people who are healthy, healthy individuals also can
gain value. So, for an example, fifty to eighty percent
of the people who go through the within the research setting,
those who go through this experience just one dose of
pulocybence say that about eighty percent the most meaningful experience,

(41:31):
spiritual or life experience in their life. And about ninety
percent of the people who go through this experience say
that there's a very clear increase in life satisfaction, positive
behavior change, positive mood, and improved relationships and so on. So,
although there is a long long way to go and

(41:54):
so much research that needs to take place, even the
existing research provides us truly quite remarkable. I mean I'm
using the word remarkable with responsibility because no other research
on psychotherapy or any other intervention has revealed clinically revealed

(42:17):
the level of healing powers, level of impact that psychedelics enable.
So it's something that we need to truly consider seriously
because when we look at in twenty twenty four, as
we are recording this, when we look at the world,
we see how much suffering that is happening and how

(42:39):
much imbalance that is there. So we are like I
am from Sri Lanka. When I look at Sri Lanka
for an example, I can see that the PTSD, the
complex post traumatic stress disorder in many people, majority of
the population of the country. So that is contributing to

(43:04):
every aspect of the people of my own country, the
socioeconomic relationships, the growth of the company or growth of
the organ the country, and so on. So if you
are able to find solutions like the substance plant substance

(43:24):
that can be grown very very easily and in combination
with therapeutic approach enabling healing within a few months, I
think it is something that we truly need to look at.
So that is my effort being in this phase trying
to combine both the therapeutic aspects. Actually, Andrada, I'm really

(43:45):
glad that you're bringing up both sides of the story,
the spiritual aspects of it, philosophical aspects of it, metaphysical
at the same time, also the clinical aspects of it.
So I'm not just only necessarily a clinically driven person.
I'm also so really I make sure that I'm also

(44:05):
metaphysically aligned, spiritually aligned when I approach these powerful possibilities.
I think in combination is when we are able to
create the maximum impact for those who are seeking healing
through these medicines. And that's the right balance as well.
So yes, important to know the clinical studies at the

(44:28):
same time the metaphysical possibilities as well.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Absolutely, And what you said, you know, it's not just
somebody who looks ill on the outside. It's something you
know that is applicable for everybody because in the world today,
everybody is suffering from some level of stress, anxiety, etc. Right,
so everybody needs that intervention at some level. So another thing, Fernando,
you know you hear these terms associated with the you

(44:54):
know you consume these substances, dozing and micro dosing. Can
you tell us a little about what that means?

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (45:06):
All right, So the research shows instead of taking oh no,
let's take a step back. So what is micro dosing
and dosing? If we use the word dosing, it would
be taking a significant dosage of the specific substance which

(45:27):
catalyze the altered state of consciousness experience. So, for an example,
magic mushroom, when we take the significant dosage usually which
is about one gram to one point five grams, which
is a therapeutic dosage. I'm also mentioning these numbers to

(45:49):
provide more information if you're listening, because there are also misconceptions.
Once I heard a dosage good dosage is seven grams,
and I think that's quite a very strong door stage.
Recently someone do so that is misinformation. So let us
understand usually when it comes to se cyber magic mushrooms,
about one to one point five grams is a good

(46:10):
dose for creating an altered state of consciousness, especially in
a person who has not built any tolerance. That means
someone absolutely new. At the same time, let's also keep
in mind that depending on the different variation of the
mushroom that we take, because there are many different mushrooms,

(46:31):
varieties of mushrooms which contain sver cyburn, so different mushrooms
have different effects and also different amount of potentcy as well.
So if you're talking about something that is potent, it's
about one point five grams and this uh success. This
is this amount of doors in. Someone who is not

(46:54):
tolerant is capable of creating an altered state of consciousness experience.
What do I mean by that? Now? Earlier I mentioned
that default mode network reduces it is activities. So what
is that space like? Is it some kind of like
a paralyzed state? We don't know anything? Not the case.

(47:16):
So once we kind of disassociate from our own self more,
psychedelics are disassociative substances, So it enable us to disassociate
from our sense of self and then experience ourselves within
also our external world in abstract ways. I think the

(47:38):
best way to say is abstract. And you know that
when we say the word magic mushroom, another name for
magic mushroom is also holocinogenic mushroom hallucinations. So hallucination is
something that is a construct of our mind. That's how
we approach it, right. It's a constructor of our mind
that is different from our normal reality. So this is

(48:02):
very very dependent on the person to person. One someone
might see fractals, colors, certain energy, certain stories, part of something,
them being involved in something in a very different way,
and some people might not experience colors or these different
scenarios or anything like that, they may have a different experience.

(48:26):
So this catalyzing these specific experiences usually is done with
the doors, the appropriate doors. And then if you look
at micro doors, micro doors usually would imply something somewhere
between ten to twentyeth of a normal doors is a

(48:50):
micro door. So if one takes one gram of gram
of psilocybin for the normal experience or the altered state
of consciousness experience, if we divided it by ten to
twenty and taking that very small amount is what we
call micro dosing. So what really happens during the intake

(49:15):
of normal dos if we see the average dose, it's
usually it increases the neuroplasticity of our brain. All the
cortexes connect in a way that it usually never connects
in our normal state of brain. So that's what enables
this abstract experience, if not hallucinations, if not this transcendental experience,

(49:41):
I would rather use the word transcendental experience. And then
when we take a micro doss, however, it doesn't create
any physical change to our body or emotional mental change
as such, because the amount we take is quite small.
But at the same time, however, it increases the neuroplasticity

(50:03):
in our brain to a certain extent, so our nervous
system become a little bit more adaptive and possible to change,
although we don't consciously experience a hallucination or a change
in our body mind, in our emotion if you're taking
the right amount. So what people do is, as we
are habitual, we can restrengthen behaviors, emotional patterns, thinking patterns

(50:32):
when we repeat something with some elevated neuroplasticity. When we
do microdosing on a long term basis, we are able
to cultivate some of those patterns that we want to
cultivate within ourselves on a more active basis in comparison

(50:53):
to trying to cultivate them without the use of micro dos.
So micro dosing is a very popular way of taking
the substance, the reason being that it doesn't create any
altered state of consciousness or you would also imagine when
we are going through an experience of losing sense of

(51:15):
self that also means to a certain extent, losing the
control over our body as well. It's definitely not a
paralyzed state. When we take a proper dose. We can
always stand up and sit down and talk and go
to use the restroom or anything like that during therapeutic experience.
But at the same time, however, in order for us
to let our body completely disengage from our mind, if

(51:39):
not the default mode network, to become really reduced of
its activities, we also need to kind of like let
go of our body. So there is a level of
our body is not functional to this normal the sharpness
that we would experience in the normal state of brain,
we don't have that kind of experience on a microdose.

(52:01):
We have the full control of our body our mind,
but our neuroplasticity has increased a little bit so in
a way that we can cultivate behaviors and thoughts in
the long run. So I would say, even if someone
is going through microdosing, it is still important that they
consult first of all, they are medical doctor to understand

(52:23):
if there are specific medicines that they might be taking.
For an example, we know that everything can count interact
with each other depending on their chemical compositioning. So there
are certain medicine that we might be taking can directly
interact with zerocybin directly interact with zerocybin. So it's important

(52:46):
that we make sure that the medical doctor is able
to confirm that they can use it, or some medicines
might need to be stopped, especially like, for an example, antidepressants.
If you're taking antidepressants, it would require potentially to stop

(53:09):
taking antidepressants before they start microdosing. So the number one
step if someone wants to do microdosing or work with
a therapist or a practitioner who is providing psilocybin assisted
coaching or therapy, to first see the medical doctor and
take their opinion, and then they would require to do
some mental health screening. Most of the licensed practitioners or

(53:32):
trained certified practitioners are able to deliver these screening processes
to recognize if there is any harm or danger in
one undergoing either the full experience or even microdosing. Once
through those screening processes, they are clear that one can
undertake the journey, then they are well prepared. But at

(53:54):
the same time, however, it is not advised for one
person to take it all by themselve. Even if someone
is going through micro dosing, it's important that we work
with the practitioner who understands the medicine, who understands the
neuroplasticity and how to truly impactfully safely integrate the microd
dosing experience as well, so throughout the journey from the starting,

(54:18):
before starting, and then after beginning, and then all the
way until they complete the entire regiment. And there are
also many different ways of taking microdosing, even like, for
an example, there are some protocols where you take every
other day, some protocols every day. Sometimes some protocols you
take four days, and you don't take two days, and

(54:39):
so on. So there's a specific way of doing it
depending on the reason why one has decided to microdose.
So once again I would like to highlight the fact
that it's important we first find out are we able
to take it depending on the medicine we take, our conditions,
then secondly defining the doors as well. So sometimes I

(55:00):
see someone takes like zero point five grams to like
a zero point two grams to zero point five grams,
which is usually the range of a micro dos, but
it doesn't necessarily mean that it would be valid for
everyone either. Someone might need a little bit lower doors,
And in order for us to determine this, we would

(55:23):
need to work with a practitioner who is capable of
helping one decides, But most importantly, I think I need
to advocate for doing it legally, considering that this powerful
substance is illegal in many countries. It would invite unnecessary
complications if we do things legally, and also danger, a

(55:44):
certain level of danger. So I think it's important that
we consider the legalities of a country or region before
we undertake a journey like this.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
I mean, you've explained it so well, So, Fernando, another thing, now,
I'd like to get a little personal if that's okay.
So very interesting you've asked you've called out for wounded
healers for your ICF, a credited course that you offer.
So first of all, why are wounded healers? And also
your own personal experience that you've talked about in the

(56:14):
session that I attended. So that was a close group
and lesser people. So I don't know if you're comfortable
talking about it here, but real leave that to you.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Like what led you to do this?

Speaker 3 (56:24):
You know, certainly, And rather, I think it's important that
we authentically talk about these experiences to inspire others, and
from coming from a pace of resilience and healing, I'm
more than happy to share my experiences. Now, first let's
address the word wounded healers. It was a very conscious

(56:45):
decision when I made when I made to include that
in our communication. I think let us be very very
also practical in the world. So as a practitioner practitioner
in this space therapy, coaching and cyclonag integration, I have
seen like currently, for an example, I'm learning post graduate

(57:11):
diploma clinical psychology currently and some of the lecturers who
are very well known, highly highly regarded clinical psychologists, I
see the passion in them. I see the true commitment, dedication,
and coming from a place of deep awareness of what

(57:32):
healing truly means, especially when we work with people who
are experiencing mental and emotional imbalances, working with someone who
is extremely fragile. So you see the care some of
these extremely experienced professional professors when they approach teaching me
for an example. And then at the same time, there's

(57:53):
also very few professors I notice that they're just teaching
it because it's in the curriculum and it needs to
be set and it has been proven by a study
so that it had to be taught.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
I do not.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Necessarily see that they have made a connection between why
they do that, and where is it coming from, what
kind of intention there is behind that wanting to bring
in certain therapeutic modalities into the clients.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
That they work with.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
So the more and more I see that, I'm starting
to recognize also that people who are truly those who
have experienced adversities, trauma, challenges in their life, they have
built this empathetic way of approaching their clients and seeing

(58:51):
the clients, seeing other people who go through these journeys.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
With a more.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Compassionate way of approaching them because they have experienced these difficulties,
these challenges to a certain again, so they can share
the space, they can hold the space to these people
who are healing in a more healing, conducive space, more
of a empathetic and compassionate space. And on the other

(59:22):
hand side, I have noticed that there are sometimes practitioners
who are it's a business. It's like getting each client
through the door so that what is required from them
as a professional can be fulfilled and some livelihood can
be maintained. So in my experiences with Psychedelic World, reflective

(59:48):
practice practice and even a way of confirmation with ic
if CO competencies and also many client directive therapy cutic methodologies.
I noticed the importance of the practitioner becoming part of

(01:00:09):
the client's journey, holding space, accompanying the client in a
very empathetic and compassionate way of doing it with our
clients seeing their struggles, recognizing their struggles, and being able
to communicate with them, understand them, and to comfort them,

(01:00:31):
safeguard them, creating psychological safety when we have been exposed
to those adversities and difficulties in life. So this is
why I call wounded healers. For an example, I could
say that I have been mentally, emotionally wounded growing up
and at some stages of my life even physically. I

(01:00:51):
have been wounded because of the adversities I experienced in
my own life. So it made me first look at
myself and go through a healing journey. Truly, frankly speaking,
I started my journey as a coach after receiving coaching
to begin with. I saw the power of it and
it convinced me that it can create value, so that

(01:01:13):
I decided to gain the skill set. It's the same
then as a coach, evolving my journey into become a therapist.
It evolved the same way because I noticed coaching can
do to a certain extent, great extent. If I can
gain an additional set of skills, I can help people
at a much deeper level. So I decided to go

(01:01:34):
through the therapeutic group as well. So this all came
from came to me through my own experiences, especially my
own healing experiences. I am recognizing I didn't know that
I was limited. I didn't know I was suffering. I
didn't know that I didn't know that I didn't know.
So when I was exposed to the healing, when I

(01:01:56):
exposed the development, when I accessed the deeper levels of peace, abundance, love, nurturing,
caring first myself and people around me, I thought, it's
extremely valuable to people who have experienced these deep adversities
because they are driven from a per place of learning, knowing, experience, commitment, passion.

(01:02:24):
I'm not saying people who haven't exposed to trauma or
adversities can't be empathetic or sympathetic or compassionate. What I
mean is that the people who have experienced these adversities
truly understand the depth of the suffering, depth of difficulties challenges,
so that we can be more of we can step

(01:02:45):
into this space as a healer or someone who guides
other healers in a more meaningful with depth my own experiences,
if I'm just to add a little bit, So, I
come from a background that my parents did their best.
I grew up in poverty, I grew up in emotional trauma,

(01:03:12):
generational trauma. My parents also deeply not knowing that some
of the things that they may have done to me
and my sister for an example, as a child, they
did it with their best interest, knowing that that's going
to help us, but unfortunately they had many adverse effects.

(01:03:33):
And I was also bullied growing up. So I belonged
to the LGBTQA community and growing up in Southeast Asia,
like what twenty five to thirty years ago, I was
very severely both mentally, emotionally and also physically assaulted very

(01:03:57):
strongly growing up and then as an adults, and I
was severely assaulted as well. And of course I had
an uncle who tragically lost his life by falling into
a well and finding out days after I found I

(01:04:20):
walked up to one of my other uncles whose hand
was amputated.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
He was dead.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I found him on his deathbed. So many incidents that
I can look back and recognize that I have been
through as dramatic and also most interestingly, my parents were
unwell as I was growing into the adolescence, so my
sister was being educated. So I had to quite literally

(01:04:47):
take the responsibility for my family. I had to be
away from my family at a very young age. I
had to do several jobs as a youngster while managing
my studies, educating my sister, providing everything for my family.
Now I'm saying all of these things with much resilience
and so much love. Even my parents, they have been
through these treatments with me. We have held hands together

(01:05:08):
very closely, and they now recognize and they know, and
they are even more loving and caring, and we have
such a beautiful relationship. Of course we have established now
in order for us to be able to do that,
in order for us to heal as a family, and
for me to heal as an individual who has been
through adversities. Were enabled by my lifelong practice of reflection,

(01:05:34):
working with a coach, working with a supplies, so working
with a psychologist to the longest time, and then being
able to access these powerful plant medicines which created that
change in me. Like I mentioned in the session that
you attended, that I woke up after the first solo
cyber integration session and I thought that I was light headed.

(01:05:55):
I felt this freedom abundance in my mind because I
did this treatment. Two day, three, day four, I still
told myself, you're feeling lighted, you're feeling motivated, enthusiastic about
life because you did this treatment. Then, of course, in scientifically,
I already know that in fourth day it's fully flashed
out of my body, and by the seventh day I

(01:06:16):
was still feeling the same marvel about life. I broke
down into tears. I went down on my knees, the
reason being I recognize that this is how it used
to be mentally healthy, this is how it is to
feel the freedom in your own mind. Because I didn't
know that, I lived a life of anxiety and depression,

(01:06:38):
which is which I also would like to say in
my deepest vulnerability as a practitioner, as a therapist or
a coach every time I served my clients. Because I
had this, I wasn't able to access this life of fulfillment.
I felt like a hypocrite the longest time. And then
afterwards I went through these experiences and truly experienced that

(01:06:59):
liber from my own self, my own brain, my adversities,
my challenges, my abuses, all of that, those things that
have happened to me. It really truly convinced me that
it is. So this is what I mean by magical.
I do not necessarily take that word lightly. I take
it very seriously because it is a magical possibility in

(01:07:21):
my life to break away from. So this is how
I actually really would like to conclude this sharing there's
illusion in this world, in this three D reality, and
then there's also real magic. The illusion was the adversities
I experienced, all those limitations that I experience up until

(01:07:41):
thirty plus years of my life, and then when I
was able to break away from it, I started to
see the world and my existence with a new light,
different light in a way that I could drop all
those robes, invisible chains, and the wounds that I was
suffering from those invisible things, and then take that step

(01:08:02):
forward and feel the lightness, feel true love, and be
able to be truly kind to myself. I think that's
what this experience enable me at the bottom line, Like
it just helped me to be able to truly deeply
love myself like I have never done, like I have
never known that I could love myself so deeply. Yeah,

(01:08:24):
so it brought like it was a simple truth that
I found out through this whole experience. I found out
that the one that needs to be loved the most
is just the one that is in front of the mirror,
that's yourself. And when we can deeply, deeply, truly love
ourselves so all who we are, then we can just
easily turn around and love anyone in our life, even

(01:08:47):
a stranger, even someone who has done bad to you.
You look at them and you recognize, oh, my goodness,
this person is suffering. If you love yourself so deeply,
you can love this person because you just see now
this person for the suffering that you have experienced. Because
I think I have been I have been wounded, and
I was able to heal myself, I can approach my

(01:09:09):
clients people I work with, with more kind compassion love
that I would like that I can exude in my approaches.
So that's why I think that I call wounded healers
because they understand it makes sense to them and they
know what it takes to go through the experience, and

(01:09:31):
they also know what it takes to heal and to
love themselves so deeply so that they can love others.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Yeah, thank you Fernando for sharing. And yeah, we need
to be kind to ourselves first. That's a very good lesson.
Anything else you'd like to add, Fernando.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Anything else I would like to add. I would say
that we are approaching this subject with question. Even when
we started. We talk a lot about the legalities. We
talk about the importance of being formed, the preparation protocol

(01:10:11):
and integration protocol, the importance of all of these things.
At the same time, I would also remind ourselves that
it's this powerful possibility, is not something that just happened
to be just a few years of research, or just

(01:10:32):
a couple of decades, a few decades of prohibition, or
anything like that. Psychedelic substances, especially the plant substances, have
shaped human civilization over a very long time, centuries, thousands
of years. They have been working with us side by side.
In fact, when we look at many all the civilizations,

(01:10:56):
when we unearthed new findings, new artifacts, ruins, we clearly
see how these plant medicines have been working alongside, hand
in hand in terms of our development as a human civilization,
very clear evidences, and also there are many theories. By

(01:11:19):
frantic example, Panspermia suggests that our own evolution, the evolution
of the plant and animal kingdom, may also have been
influenced by fungi for an example, and also if you

(01:11:40):
really look at fungi close enough. We think we as
the most we we call ourselves most advanced beings on
this planet, and we think we have control over We
think we are the majority, we are the ones who
have the power. But the truth is underneath each and
every one of us. There's eleven kilos of my celium

(01:12:01):
underneath our feet. The reason being that my selium if
not the true So the mushroom is only just the
fruit of the actual fungi. So the my celium is
actually the true, true being, or the true organism which
is underneath of the earth we don't see, and it

(01:12:23):
recycles everything on Earth, every living thing, whether it is
animals or plants, anything that dies. We need my celium,
We need fungi to truly recycle, otherwise there will be
piles of piles of piles of dead bodies and all
the dead plants on Earth. If there were nor fungi,

(01:12:44):
and now we know very clearly fungi is the most
dominant and the biggest ecosystem of our Earth. It connects
plants from one plant to the other. It helps plants
to communicate with each other, It diverts nutrients from one
plant to the other, diverts water from one plant to
the other. And also when we take consume, it connects

(01:13:08):
us to some larger truths that we as human beings cerebrally,
if not our conscious mind is not aware of. So
I would say, while we approach something extremely powerful that
is just within our vicinities, within our approach, we sometimes

(01:13:30):
either become very ignorant towards them because it is illegal,
there's stigma around it, and so on. So there may
be many reasons, or maybe there's our own fear controlling
us to approach those things. But I think it's really
very important that we keep in mind balance between stigma, legalities,
and the difficulties challenges around utilizing these medicines, and also

(01:13:56):
keep in mind that there's huge benefits. There many clear
benefits that bring to us, not just only in terms
of personal healing, just individual healing. I think it also
has capacity to act as a wave of domino effect
to bring.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Some level of.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Wide piece into the world as well, because I have
never seen someone who went through an experience with psilocybin.
For an example, psychlic plants come out and become arrogant,
or become greedy, or become non useful to the society.
Everyone I have seen they become more compassionate, more loving,

(01:14:38):
They have a deep understanding about themselves, they start loving
each other. So I believe it has a huge potential
for us as human civilization if we look back because
of fear, because of we didn't understand better. It's almost
like I could just use this simple example. Now, imagine no,
rather you right, you go into a place and there

(01:15:02):
are many people of color, and you find them all
tied up to something. They're tied up, they are chained up,
and they were not given food on a table with
the other people. And how diver stating would that be
for you to see human beings treated like that. But
it's not something that hasn't happened. When we look at

(01:15:23):
the human history. Not long ago, people were in that situation.
The all human human beings of color experience that. Now,
if we try and to travel, we will feel devastated
right now. That's exactly how I feel about psychedelics. I
feel truly devastated because knowing as a mental healthcare professional,
knowing how many people are struggling around the world because

(01:15:45):
they don't have access to the treatment which can be
easily accessible, which can be easily curated. They are struggling
because of the bureaucracy, the agenda, the controlling, the systemic inequality,
and all of those things that we experience. Is so
my heart is broken, truly speaking, when I look at
so many people who are suffering, my heart is truly broken.

(01:16:08):
So I feel like that I'm almost helpless in many ways.
So this is also why I said that this platform
is a huge opportunity for me to be able to
share this message and say that people, let's be open minded.
If you are if you're curious, bring your curiosity and
open with a open learn with an open mind, and

(01:16:29):
remember that everything has Every powerful resource has both both
positive and negative impact effect. But it's important that we
in twenty twenty four pay attention and recognize with open

(01:16:50):
mind what can be done, how systemic problems, larger problems
that we're experiencing in the world could have a domino
effect of our solution. If you're tolerant enough, if you're
open enough, if you're curious enough.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Yes, I think we need to conquer own default mode
network oppunditioning when it comes.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
To exactly yeah, yeah, you put it beautifully.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Yeah. Thank you, Fernando. This has been truly enlightening. Thank
you and Rada.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
Thank you so much for the space for me to
share these deep insights and also my passion, so I
really appreciate and if anyone who's watching us is inspired now,
I think we have achieved our God.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Thank you absolutely