October 23, 2024 • 76 mins
(Audio in Hindi & English)
In this interview, Chandan Pandey, the award-winning author of the The Keeper of Desolation, published by HarperCollins India, and translator Sayari Debnath, talk about the “surreal yet gritty, violent yet poetic” stories that form the book and the importance of translating from regional languages.
He recalls breaking down, sitting in a boat in Varanasi, after writing the haunting short story “Forgetting”, an exploration of inner family dynamics where one member is forgotten by the rest of the household. Meanwhile, “The Decision” was born of a desire to weave a story around his fascination for the name Mausam, given to the protagonist. Pandey, based in Bengaluru, whose stories are set in the heart of small town India, finds himself immensely rooted in memories of his hometown Deoria as he grows older. Listen in!
Chandan Pandey is the author of four short-story collections and two novels in Hindi. He has been honoured with the Bharatiya Jnanpith’s Navlekhan Award, the Vanmali Yuva Katha Samman, the Shabd Chhaap Samman, and is a recipient of the Krishna Baldev Vaid Fellowship. The translation of his acclaimed debut novel, Vaidhanik Galp, was published in English as Legal Fiction in 2021."
Sayari Debnath translates from Hindi and Bengali into English. She is a culture journalist at Scroll where she writes about books, literary trends and art.
Timestamps
01:18 Staying away from happy endings
04:40 Sayari on translating Chandan’s stories
07:36 On the story “Forgetting”
16:45 Sayari’s favourite story ‘The Mathematics of Life’
18:53 The Keeper of Desolation on a lady who loses her ring; Chandan on why there are no more “professional” thieves
22:17 His connection to Deoria, his hometown; stories from small towns
28:32 Are Hindi writers more connected to the grassroots?
33:00 Translating from regional languages and the difference in tones
37:15 The connection to the past and role of memories
43:40 The book is a selection of his stories from 4 volumes
45:13 Finding time and the motivation to write
48:45 Sayari on the fun of translation, and the challenges
59:00 Chandan’s writing influences; his love for reading
01:02:40 The scope for translation as a career in India
01:11:56 Urdu writer Sayyed Mohammad Ashraf’s “Aakhri Sawariya”
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Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
Email: swishingmindsets@gmail.com
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.
In this interview, Chandan Pandey, the award-winning author of the The Keeper of Desolation, published by HarperCollins India, and translator Sayari Debnath, talk about the “surreal yet gritty, violent yet poetic” stories that form the book and the importance of translating from regional languages.
He recalls breaking down, sitting in a boat in Varanasi, after writing the haunting short story “Forgetting”, an exploration of inner family dynamics where one member is forgotten by the rest of the household. Meanwhile, “The Decision” was born of a desire to weave a story around his fascination for the name Mausam, given to the protagonist. Pandey, based in Bengaluru, whose stories are set in the heart of small town India, finds himself immensely rooted in memories of his hometown Deoria as he grows older. Listen in!
Chandan Pandey is the author of four short-story collections and two novels in Hindi. He has been honoured with the Bharatiya Jnanpith’s Navlekhan Award, the Vanmali Yuva Katha Samman, the Shabd Chhaap Samman, and is a recipient of the Krishna Baldev Vaid Fellowship. The translation of his acclaimed debut novel, Vaidhanik Galp, was published in English as Legal Fiction in 2021."
Sayari Debnath translates from Hindi and Bengali into English. She is a culture journalist at Scroll where she writes about books, literary trends and art.
Timestamps
01:18 Staying away from happy endings
04:40 Sayari on translating Chandan’s stories
07:36 On the story “Forgetting”
16:45 Sayari’s favourite story ‘The Mathematics of Life’
18:53 The Keeper of Desolation on a lady who loses her ring; Chandan on why there are no more “professional” thieves
22:17 His connection to Deoria, his hometown; stories from small towns
28:32 Are Hindi writers more connected to the grassroots?
33:00 Translating from regional languages and the difference in tones
37:15 The connection to the past and role of memories
43:40 The book is a selection of his stories from 4 volumes
45:13 Finding time and the motivation to write
48:45 Sayari on the fun of translation, and the challenges
59:00 Chandan’s writing influences; his love for reading
01:02:40 The scope for translation as a career in India
01:11:56 Urdu writer Sayyed Mohammad Ashraf’s “Aakhri Sawariya”
Follow and share to grow the conversation.
Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
Email: swishingmindsets@gmail.com
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Welcome to swishing mindsets.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is Anaradha and today I'm speaking to award winning
writer Chandan Pande, who has recently come out with his
book The Keeper of Desolation published by HarperCollins India, and
Shairi Devnath, who has translated the stories.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
From Hindi to English.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The stories have been described as surreal yet gritty and
violent yet poetic, set in the heartland of India. Welcome Chandan,
Welcome Shairi, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So many of book Pari and it's right. I didn't
know how to describe it. So because they are very
poetic when you read them, and gritty as well, because
you know.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Stories and jaga.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But do take me out there story so intention compliment, complement.
Actually I don't know, because I love happy endings. I
(01:09):
love happy endings, but then sometimes it's good to, you know,
feel a little uncomfortable also, So I.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Think that is the case of more or less English leaders.
They like they like happy endings. So okays is but
an but have you can so as I could happy
ending hugating a collection a moment my close friends and
(01:53):
or serious reading with casualty inputs and my high regard
day ninety percent times opinion licking h to Khan named
Khan attains environmental mad said police tick positive character a
(02:16):
thousand uh get too many of Yeah, yes, it was
a mistake. Two your reality and your institutions saying juniperum
dependent of family who police who Yeah, we name institution
(02:38):
jouki individually killaugh no are you but is a very
political party your individual favor mcclaim. We we won a
degree apart maximum crucial mop over to a happy ending
to in fact happy ending to Bollywood nuanced version.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The happy ending name for Minnesota. Name of the book
is only Keeper of Desolation obviously but.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Hm q k you stalk introduce your title, Mary, but
hint the menu of six Floria to the jug just
(03:39):
be locus to he a struggle head. It's sane, sane
top milkle slowly degrade chau language to correct app of
(03:59):
this send to have happening.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's true and all of us, uh, you know, we
go deep inside and that is what you've captured.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
The man Mitcheldre. You know, we're always like the things
are getting destroyed. So many things are happening in our head.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Now outside things will be very normal, but inside we
may be completely destroyed the way stories. So it's this
is a compliment. Yeah, Shary, what did you think when
you first came across the stories?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
When I first came across the stories, I think I
had very little choice in this matter when it came
to translating them, because iron like when we were talking
about before, he wanted me to translate Chandon's stories because
he said, you know, we have these great collections short
fiction that chenden and mailed in some time before, and
(05:01):
he said, we have these, I think, really promising stories
and they're just sitting with me, So why don't you
take a shot at it, you know, just do them?
And I thought, okay, Well there was someone senior at
work who wanted me to do a project, and I
could not say no one. I said, okay, I'll try it.
And before long, I remember I had started it sometime
in July twenty twenty two, and by December I had
(05:24):
seven stories. So I translated seven stories, right, and it
was about maybe about seventy thousand words, sixty five seventy
thousand words. And when I started it, I think I
was doing them in a trance. I had to do
them one after the other and the next after that.
So I had very little time to think about the
stories per se, because when you're translating it, you're focusing
(05:48):
on the text at a very very cellular level, so
to speak, right, So you're focusing on the construction of
the sentence and the moods and the words and the
dialogues and stuff. So I read it properly when the
manuscript came back to me, when I had to submit
the manuscript, when I to edit it, and when it
came back to me from the editors with their inputs
in it, and that's when it was revealed to me
(06:11):
the depth and the gravity of what Chandan had written. Right,
and before that, I did not get the time. Really,
I was so busy and there was so much to
do at that point. But once I had finished doing it,
so sometime in twenty three, early twenty twenty three, that's
when I sacked with the stories as a reader, and
I read them from the start to the beginning, as
probably you would have, and I realized, okay, this is
(06:34):
really it's something, you know, really explosive and something really
disquieting that we have here. And there is like a
lot of bleakness and very little hope. But I think
the environment we are in today, or the country we
are into today, I think it is a reflection of
the times wearin, right, So there's no denying that, And
(06:55):
I think, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right, it's with us maybe because of that, you know,
because the reality is in our head. It is very
different from the comfortable existence that we have outside. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And I also feel that you don't have to tax
yourself very much to imagine this reality because it's already there.
This is what you read in the papers, and this
is what you see when you go online on your
Twitter and Instagram, right, So it's not you don't have
to exercise a lot of your time or your energy
imagining this scenario. So I think that is where the
(07:31):
biggest strength of these stories are.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, just how pure story and forgetting forgetting now they
forget one member in the household. It is says so
many things because you can understand the hopes that the
family has pinned on that boy, because it will change
the entire future, right, And you can feel day to
(07:56):
day survival. It's father loses his job and everything and
all that you know, and at the end of it,
like you feel responsible. Oh my god, that boy they
forget that he's exists in that household.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So whether I don't know if this is a cliche question,
but what is how does it germinate in your mind?
And then how do you take it to another level completely?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Mm hmm. I think legally Khan to about the s
(08:54):
I experience that oh show as pass crowd bout about
two or who or many times to pass to our
(09:25):
mayfield the mat with you agin to do ramda jakar
now now a better tie, Jackie, our our quest push
(09:52):
it to origin like in subsect subs queen much boot,
institution society. We have family to family. You see the
institution up named defense here to me wife, yeah, parents, power,
(10:18):
puls the powerful, a very young to birth to subsect, family, escape, heater, subse,
hyper sanstan hitter to subset. We met everybody, but in
(10:46):
part in him they make critic and Christian Gram Qui
Parai said, your cultural front had strong attackers, strong more
strong front attack attacker or your normal come your front
(11:10):
pay attacker thing to Mimi and Gram and a second
uh dometter political science subject classic cave cave literature something
two major meic okay, I was thinking on this line
(11:35):
to Mia j subsect but cheese family character Familica, who
carry Kern your electron neutron carry ox like we charged
particular carry's Americana chapel our Kina. The idea, uh, don't
(12:08):
you personal the novel had the white Castle post novel
about or uh styling to a confidence that actually say
the idea, yes, they to work up with your body
(12:35):
master s s the ideas explore, collect export to express
why I have to explore to eat process.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Starting points.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Easy confidence started pointing we leave ideally never confidence like
this idea to explore.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Actually have careens of my young rather than the logos.
But a plan manarojar picture.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
A so which is.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Maybe so our parents and maybe so remember but it's
good to remind. Remember, I mean your story is a
good reminder that this can happen. Yeah, or if stories
actually like the quite like I said, you uncomfortable and
they stay with you flour Milton worker.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Story.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But it's so sad and just for some money, you know,
because the interest is going up and the the principal
amount is so less.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
But for that.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
He is.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I think will correct me. It is written as the
alphabet of glass. Yeah, principal amount come alone, YadA, yes exactly?
(14:50):
Or people a model ju developed? Just how easily is
back at the cost of one limb? Let's say loan
(15:11):
lenah to would you exponentially increase head? Not that what
we call arithmetic progress geometric winning, exponential increase heir in
the Agraham literals to a cost of interest or cost
of principle? Technical? He would you or k a positive?
(15:41):
You escapema weak point? Both other build up log alba
(16:09):
to yoga pys logical. You know, how about explain? Would
you character help your wife say it's about explain said logo?
(16:30):
Mm hmm, politic.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Thank you, Shary.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What did you think of the stories? Is there any
that you know that touched you more? And these are
just two that I mentioned.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I think my favorite of that lot is it's
called naya in Hindi, but in English we have made
it into the mathematics of life. They're also you know,
there's by a tractor. He wants to buying a tractor
and deepen debt. And you know this guy's progressively losing
his mind. He's going to the class. He's not teaching
the lessons he's doing some humbo, you know, mumbo jumbo
(17:10):
getting a thing up calculations exactly. It's a very funny story,
like despite the graveness of the issue and this obvious turmo,
and this poor chap is in and he's not old.
He's twenty eight. He is my age. And you know
at the end he says, team uh, I'm doing a
rough I'm doing a rough paraphrasing. He says, I'm an
(17:31):
old man at twenty eight, you know, And you can
really feel the pain that this guy is in, right.
He thinks that this is the end of life. He
can never repay this nominal amount of money trelac, which
is not much to either of any of us. But
you know, these are these small amounts be up picare
I think, you know, the principle is very little, but
(17:51):
that you know, when you add interress to it, then
it turns into something really ugly and newmongers, right, and
we don't realize it. For many people in our country,
a lack or three lave or two lack is something
they can't even imagine. Right. And there's this guy who's
just twenty eight and he's given up on his life
and his father and all these people in the village,
(18:11):
some you know, accosting him, you know, coaxing him to
take a loan so that they can make some money
out of it. And I really like the format as well,
like it's an you know, it's like a letter. I mean,
it is a letter to the Prime Minister. And the
PS section is really funny. He addresses the American President
first and then he addresses God because you know, he says, like,
(18:34):
obviously the American President is more important than you at
the moment. So I think that is my favorite because
it's a really funny story no matter what. And I
had and I had great fun translating it. It was
also the first study I translated. It was my introduction
to Chandan, and I thought, okay, this is going to
be a fun right. And besides that, the other story,
(18:55):
which I also like very much is the title story,
The Keeper of Desolation, which I think also works as
a sort of a feeble because you know, there's this
lady who has lost her rings and suddenly the entire
town is up in arms trying to recover it from
for her. And it's a really short story as compared
to the other. In the connection, I think it's It
(19:17):
runs at about seven thousand words, and I think that
was also fun. I think these two were a little
different from the the other, more cheerful, and there's there's
an inventiveness in the form as well. So I got
to do something different with them.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
No, it was and also I think, uh, the article Quin,
the article Quin, the story, Yeah, very very interesting read
that because it's true.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, because that job has lost the luster. I lost
the luster for such a small thing. You can get
written to death.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, so they're selling vegetables now, Yeah, they work in
the police. You know. I think I think that that
was a clam story.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And interesting because the side of the times. No, the
generation of thieves is very different.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The charm, the charm, the charm really so Jan then
up there so are connection many family or I think
(20:49):
legal fiction, many Hindi English and many hind legal fiction. Partner.
So it was up in uh the.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Okay, okay, And so yeah, the character.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Or because coffee stories and Keeper of Desolation maybe coffee stories.
So I was very thrilled personally.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Story.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So it was small towns and you know, even people
like we are used to reading about people like us, right,
I sadly realized this one is a laborer, this one
is this.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You know it's it's uh, it's nice.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Honey, ma, I know connection or.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Or very honest Jada kitchen problems dropped that sha you
know through mathematical formula just using an interesting story to esca.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
H they were all a question was actually abi is
a massive income pali jerm phil banaras or uh they
(22:40):
were jacket past lata two highly higher in chak rome
you can remained payaki m hm or by writers lead
me okay, who manage jo whom is a barn like
(23:04):
in bangor mang like in memory memory seconds equip memory
dill this equip memory equip memory memory Hey like Kamcha
(23:30):
Mara down, you have ultimately a middle Lutni given passage
down Yeah, childhood rest all you have fake hey yeah
sky reminiscence but k town misty Mary wife two job
(23:56):
mayor ban town the town but cruise yak tabi what
about the may have my job down to mister X
(24:24):
may tector government. You have pet the development case well
tractor huge investment to ma mister X retired to teta
(24:50):
Tectorumia you tector our bank. You do parallels in beach may.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
You?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I said target you retired, who's the head or convince
business model, heir or business model twenty to thirty percent
to attract.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Loo it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
To a couple of conquer the conquer high retired passes
milk to lifelong.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You can.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Pick a daily earnings guilt. Okay, a single moment of repent.
He changed me about Si, the entire heartlessness about jadakal repel.
(26:21):
He may explored about the export characters, like basic idea
of he Chi. Last moment you subject a plank, but
(26:52):
he he is not at all aware about the interested
part of that. He was interested last moment to say
a click shortly to che coman thrust to describe.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And really ka honey park, my god kidnam border. He
was in the what maybe they correct chapter Jonga that
could be interested. You're right straightforward message.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
So h yeah, Christmas.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Sa they were young excited.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
We are not take Jackie both sides factors of them. Okay.
My writer who manager to her children like Mai Sari.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
In fact, we.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
May suburb in West Karrega, Domenica.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Mm hmm, she's the li.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And like what what is the right word humble people.
I mean it's sounds elitist, but Hindi mal okay open
stories and you know to Hindi writers is her stories liquors.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Are actually example, legal fiction was not about the juana
like calas one school klass one English to pay hendy
(29:22):
ma jesu you roots o other close thing look jo
to ja or quality candid otherwise production to her to
(29:46):
act difference mm hmm by alex in Hindi or English.
In fact you see the language man who asked uh
ga jena in the side writer unless until he's not
(30:14):
retired from a big job, a good job two grammy
imagine struggle can now had you yas an Indian hump
his sister to Isa toad may music honestly but you
(30:47):
obviously name the culture were diminished both culture to you
urbanized push ah Graham given about near those or lumber
(31:14):
in the soft homeal if he pushed level the two
t like it's put both other break name Joe Joe,
you know level pay to level wide level payment movie
like cruelty is hang just person pay made you engagement
(31:40):
and aciously a behave no politicized or highly critical towards others.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Or or.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Image you in deficient element? He yeah, can your Hindi
(32:28):
writers quot difference hexample?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
But this is.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Interesting, would you up there?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know we tend to look at a village like
as you know, all things innocent now, so maybe it's
our own an over indulgence or fantasy or something shari
or do you yeah, you've translated. You know you're obviously
you're a culture writer at Scroll and you know you've
(32:55):
translated a lot of work. I'm sure Hindi from Hindi
and Bengali. So do you see any difference in tone?
And you know when you're translating from you know, regional languages.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
So I grew up in small towns.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
My father had a job which required is to move
very often. So before we came to Tangata, I grew
up in Rajasthan, Gujarat and mah Rashtra. Right, So we
stayed in places like Chatoga and gas and Gujarat which
are very small. I wouldn't say they have very small towns,
(33:32):
but they do have the small town mentality so to speak, right,
which is very different from metros. As you would agree, right,
you have come from the Orea and even Lutno is
very different from Delhi. Right, we have the people talk
and behave and all of that. So that's I think.
So that is my Hindi connect because I did not
grow up reading or writing in Bangala. I still cannot
(33:53):
write in Bangala because I never studied it in school, right,
So my Hindi connection comes from there. And so chances
is the first book are translated from Hindi. And then
I moved on to another writer whose stories is also
incidentally set in the village, but it's a coming up
h story and there are a lot of child characters.
(34:16):
And in Bengali, I've been doing some really urban stories, right,
which are a little macaban, but they're all set in cities.
So the difference, I think, I think it's too early
for me to tell at this stage because I'm working
or whatever I can get my hands on, and I
don't really make the differentiation of where the story has originated,
(34:37):
so to speak. But even if you if I were
to talk about The Keeper of Desolation only you will
see that the stories, some of them are also set
in Deli and in a slightly bigger towns, right, not
just villages. For example, the story the decision that is
in Deli, right, the couple who are separated a long
(34:57):
time ago and then they lived up for many years.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
So I think so we travel. I think for any writer,
I think they keep traveling from one geography to another.
So even if you read some really urban Indian writers
who write in English, you will see that even in
their stories, they do not then stuck to like one cities.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
If they're traveled abroad, they will write about those experiences.
If they've been to the village, they write about those experiences.
So I think the whole geography bit is so fluid
these days because even you and I you know, will
take a flight and in a few hours will we're
in a different continent. We're experiencing a completely different life.
Or you take a train and in two hours I'm
(35:36):
in a slightly smaller town in westban Gold, Right. So
I think a psyche also keeps changing, and we try
to see and adapt with things differently to as closely
as we can in the physical surroundings that we are in.
But as of now, I have seen changes, yes, in
the story, and the concerns are different. Like when your urban,
(35:59):
you're more concerned about the the corruption that you might
face in you know, in like in building a house
in a certain neighborhood, or your neighbors who are too nosy, right,
stuff like that. But when you're in village, then you're
handling something really sort of urgents, such as you know,
really high debts, or there are no bridges, there's no
(36:20):
drinking water, so the struggles might be different. But I
think everyone has mis fighting something or the other, depending
on where they are and the economic or the physical
space that they by me occupying. Yes, I don't know
if that made a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
No, No, it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, and uh, you know you mentioned the decision and
you know, I don't know. I'm just drawing connections. It
may not be correct, but just make exculfriend them or
some No, there be many of people with career, so
we'll say we Exculfriner call are there and you you know,
(37:03):
just the Africa memory past, majority your characters given the
has it's my connection.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
His he here the decision Jokhan ted who Uti who
those provinments? Classic trio. It's a awsome mossim Nam the
(37:40):
Chican j Now.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Persons story mammals.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
That she's a quick and except about Alca mention passing
reference to May like skill manages his story build up here,
(38:14):
Uh what Maykani and city public school? City public school?
To my name balcony or need to say schools or
(38:35):
curve of thighs, curvet whose curbageable bike? More a ball?
A short meriment may yeah a short man school desiper
city public school or kanity is main back to three
(39:01):
QUI experience like in yeah Khan decision to Suso described crinical.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
But is the mal.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Or silences the malcar It's maybe the decision maybe decision
Yeah you couple coffee one but for bold Africa.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Or so.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I don't know whether I'm just catching onto it. It's
a coincidence. Yeah, you deliberately use these silences.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I think.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Naming it deliberate or naming it coincidence, I think gives
you termit as my limits my limitations is the art
of novel forty six words? Shoot a dictionary? He who
(40:26):
words writing house? Maybe the unbeailable likeness of being maybe
character a tool? So tools were Jahavi? Silence to your reader,
(40:53):
reader who check okay, silence your question.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I don't want to make you conscious at all.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
You know, sorry is a tool our silence Je spoken
up and said, gonna put a development now, Gash that
(41:27):
is a rose uh your character rose woody character. It's
not character a family out poor film and I to
(41:51):
shoot loneliness after sing just satyaki papaet transfers to like
emotional transfers, my bio transfers town in ninety four me
(42:12):
my seventh classmate transfer transfer or such kurque maamping classmates
school they prison is narna pushing pernice school for nine
school for nice school question silence saying yeah introvert Yeah
(42:40):
to jo mb word about the other extra war time
both the extra war time mamlo extremely introverted to s
I push development at Jobi s a a rooted and
(43:05):
around was a consequence with around ninety percent times Madal
life book Dominica town but medic other some ne the
chatter to make the town chick away Whi or nicol.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, mm hmm, that's true.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Interesting Actually yea iska Hindi version by English.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
India.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah, said maybe a Chai legal six and to take
selection of stories or jake one to unlook have practice
selection of does khanya have al t the knyical meteord
(44:12):
of critical to manage you can past when I have
many very male manh or give you a story to
your selection of storage and a may A chart colection
by Dushra Johnson, Tira rave Chote doing in chaos. You
(44:36):
selection mana who Kanye is man?
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Okay? And the second part keep saying, so I guess
English translation.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
English translateth that's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Process may have okay songs of glory.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, that's the working title they okay.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Actually obviously, like you're not a full time writer, and
you said it's difficult also to be a full time writer.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
So how do you find time.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Not just physical time, you know, even emotionally mentally, how
do you invest in writing stories?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And why.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Why part was the most important part? I'll tell you
like how part is the most important? UK? It is
all because.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
P t.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
O you say, But which are half or does half
a push back? Managed background may space, milk gapper time.
Then this is one thing. Second thing he marry made
(46:12):
a job is like travel.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
But the.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Flight in the town to Oju grant come in and
push at the bay or in he flights my my
name novel a challenge to sim do why part of
(46:42):
to first answer Mila like otherwise to miniground or why
you want to party? Is a cheese head? Explore carneicau
(47:04):
j John for example, shoot us a call a writer
post you are like a klank. So I was surprised, Yeah,
you are Huna to the business is my award up
a chronical magazine school under thirty, under thirteen under thirty
(47:31):
undred forty business the writer explicitly a car at the
ball day. He neighbor says, school, you are an adulteras
just old examples, and yeah, I started practicing of being
old days from the age of fourteen. He con coming
to old Honai to cure my police practice. Start CLO
(47:53):
two just reverse examples. Joe and I said, look deferent
connect DIY explore or explore parts.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
It's nice you're exploring deep concepts, the why, why, q
s A Y and shari? What about you? What grew
you to translation?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yes? I think it was just great fun and like it.
I had no intention of doing it. I just the
stories were given to me and I started doing them
for fun. You know, I had some time to kill
or why not? And if you ever separate translation, I
think it's it's a lot of fun and it takes
your mind of things, I think, which we can all
(48:51):
you know what you all want right every now and then.
And the good thing about translating is that the blank
page is your friend. Right, You're not scared of it.
You're not scared of what to put it down, because
someone has already done that very hard work for you.
For example, whatever Chan then has thought, you know, some
things that may be like originated in his childhood and
he's writing about it in his adulthood, like, these are
(49:14):
challenges which I have never had to face. Right, He's
given me this banayas out of this whole world, and
I can just like and I can do my very
best to bring it into a different language. So I
think because because you are not scared of what this
project will entail, and the white page is beautiful, it
is inviting. And if you think that today I'm going
(49:36):
to do five pages of translation, or I'm going to
translate three thousand words, and if you set your mind
to it, you can do it right, and you will
see that at the end of the day, if you
have a if you have a to do list, and
if you have done three things of it, you feel
very good about it. Right, it's an accomplishment, you feel
good about it. The think transition also works for me
(49:57):
in that regard because I always set a goal for
my myself every day, like today morning, I'm going to
do five pages. I'm going to do so many words.
And when I do it, when I've done successfully, I
feel good and I think the day starts on a
positive note. And I think that's more than anyone can
ask for, right, So I think it's as simple as that.
And because I do a lot of writing which is
(50:20):
not fiction and which is not quote unquote you know,
writing stories or writing poetry, but I have to write
a lot for work as a journalist, you would agree, right,
there's a lot of writing that you have to do.
And sometimes you don't want to use your brain to
that extent, right, You don't want to cook up new words.
You don't want to think of a plot line or
a dialogue. And I think this is where also translation helps,
(50:42):
because you are practicing writing, you're practicing thinking. But then
someone has done the hard work for you and you
take it from there.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, And does it take you out of your comfort
zone at times, like I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Always always, Yeah, it is other times and you don't
agree with one thing.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
And you feel you so see, I'll tell you something.
The thing about the challenger comfort zone that you said.
So my first and foremost challenge that comes uh uh
for translating from Hindi is that I don't speak Hindi right,
not anymore. I don't need to. So if you ask
(51:21):
me to speak at length for a minute or two,
I will start to fumble because I've lost the practice
of speaking in Hindi. But I can read it fluently.
I don't know how much I can write it anymore.
And I understand all of it, of course, but I
can't speak it. It's very difficult for me to have
a conversation in Hindi like and then will agree to it.
I switch to English very quickly because I can't hold
(51:42):
myself in that language for very long. And secondly, what
happens is when you live in a place like or
even bold, perhaps you don't hear a lot of Hindi
around you, which has anything to do with the Hindi
that Chansen writes in. It's a very very different Hindi world.
And whatever hind we speak in West Bengal or maybe
in Kolkata, it is for very like transactional reasons. Right,
(52:05):
maybe you're talking to a shopkeeper, or you're talking to
you know, a neighbor who speaks in Hindi and you
just you're just exchanging some pleasantries. So that is I
think one of my biggest challenges because I can't think
in Hindi anymore. So it takes me a little longer
to settle into a Hindi text as compared to a
Bengali one, where where I can sort of, you know,
start very naturally and do it far quicker. Right, I
(52:29):
think that is one problem. And about agreeing and not agreeing.
I don't think there is I have encountered anything in
Chandan's text or other Hindi writers I'm working with that
will sort of explicitly have my disapproval. I think there
are texts like I would want to steer clear of
some something which is, you know, too sexist or two misogynists,
(52:53):
or has certain ideologies I might not agree with. I
think that's a choice you can make that you know,
I do not want to work with this, right because
I don't agree with the text, but which and then
I've had no problem. I agree to most things he
writes about I empathize with these issues. You know, I
feel sympathy, rather can I continue sympathy. I sympathize with
(53:14):
these people who are obviously, you know, in in trouble,
and they are there are certain grievances that Schenden addresses.
So I think this is a good balance that I've
struck in the very first book, Like I haven't had
to go out of my way to convince the author
to trust me or you know, to really like, I
don't think we ever had a fight or we got
(53:35):
into a disagreement. It was a very amicable relationship and
you know, we worked very smoothly. So I think I
think that's your biggest gifts when you work as a
when you're a translator.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Yeah, and what you said that you know, we're not
speaking Hindi so much anymore and it's not as familiar
as it used to be. Maybe that's an advantage because
then you know you're not doing a literal literal translation,
word toward translation.
Speaker 4 (53:58):
So I think many people who do not translate often
think that it is a word to word translation when
it is not. It usually is not because if you
do a word to word translation, then you are not
any better than let's sitch at GPT or any other
AI tool. Right, So your mission is not to bring
a literal quote unquote for the lack of a better
(54:19):
phase translation to the English reader, because I think that's
a disservice. When you read a novel that is written
in English, you are not reading it. You're not treating
it just for the story, right. You're reading it because
the sentences are very beautifully constructed. You really like some
of the word choices, some of the phrase choices, and
the mood that the novel sets. Right, And as a translator,
(54:41):
you have the same duty towards the text in the
Hindi language language or whatever language you're choosing to work from,
to recreate those same things.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
For example, you said you felt very uncomfortable when you
read certain stories, or you were feeding bread, or you
were rooting for a character to not have their legs chopped. Right,
I think that is my duty to bring to have
you feel the same emotions that the Hindi reader also
felt by reading these stories in Hindi.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
I think if I focused just on bringing the art
sub who are right? So it was morning, I think
that wouldn't convey the same emotions of course you have
to follow the text, there's no other way. But you
have to also be sort of alert to the other
emotions and the silences and the exaggerations and whatever. It's
not said. You know, you also have to focus on
(55:31):
those things and keep them alive to the best of
your abilities.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, the emotion has to be conveyed right right.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yeah, name generous and transa either it is equal to
the writer's effort idea beause than that many push translations found?
(56:04):
Can you say Kaminski, Katy, Ferris and Wang comany translations
Henrik Borgaki shoot shooting translation, who up? Whose cheez? Would
you up? Part I? Imaging k It's not difficult, the
(56:30):
real biggest challenge or metros and your writers co world, Oh,
more than fifty percent translators any hamas translations available? Then?
Is okay to kidnas or saying look lucky take your
(56:56):
man intermitted past, Who's work pass tallosty or a hi
availevelically our comy training name normal to Joe a name
or is and the keeper of this list? Yes, trans particular, yes,
(57:26):
but I think generous theme otherwise effort or his gap
to completely easily a man second fiddly Joe that death
is the last, but some opinion rap that that is
the last, or the trans translator Joe school another until
(57:52):
he's not. He's not making a blunder.
Speaker 4 (57:56):
That's so nice because the reader and I also think
as a translator, you should if you can, then you
should avoid reading the book first before translating, because when
you read stories right, you feel a lot of things.
You make. You take a side with you side with
some characters. You approve of certain situations, you disapprove of others.
(58:19):
So what happens It sometimes inflicts your opinions when you
are translating right, and you make these judgments on behalf
of the details. So you can't do that. It's best
to walk into our text blind. Maybe you know little
bit about it, but not everything, and then you are,
you know, as new to the text as perhaps when
(58:40):
the author was when they were writing it. It is
also a way to sort of recreate the authenticity of
you know, what is being written.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, that's a lovely way to put it. Walk into
it blind, Yeah, very nice.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
Just trust the author that they've done a good job
and you're here to pick it up.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Really nice to the writing influences, but up up camp,
the influences and c because but a few bed keeper
now football bat keeper.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
Because there were very less distractions. The influences then.
Speaker 3 (59:24):
The partner just americal choice, johopper, Investi Chan Jobu, cinema
who to man yea oh was come and made not
comfortable to minor the to may to blessed enough, not
(59:56):
based enough joy maslavra to post influences man didn't Who
is maleva actually school man Jose and Josh Guru Like
(01:00:30):
Inaya to Aba they say man Jim Haney plett a
ritual ma h tuesdays Yester mark you know, ok yeah, okay,
(01:01:01):
just the start of the ses ham k trigger question
yea love another dame on the Una no jojo your
deep emotion just the Persson Robert or two triples six
(01:01:30):
both towns, two triples six some day both jes say
your short flights saying he did as a mask Jami
(01:01:53):
where she played Khan or the sooner lick in just
tak described two last.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
They not just influence, I mean what do you enjoy sometime?
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Answer correct and I think maybe many for her yes, books, yeah, shary,
what about you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
And when it comes to translations, could you tell us
a little bit about the scene and what's I mean,
what are the prospects and how do you see it
in India?
Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Right in India?
Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
Yeah, yeah, So I think, uh, like Chanden said, it's
very difficult to like only write full time. I don't
think we are in a situation economically where we can,
you know, like wrap up everything and do what we
really like it. The world doesn't work like that. And
you know, you have to have a full time job
and you have to earn your bread and so I
(01:03:01):
think so I also have a job and I and
I try to write daily unless I'm traveling or there's something,
you know, for some reason, I can't, but I try
to write daily. And I think translation is a very
up and coming sort of field, I would say, or
a vocation in India, because I think it's normal for
(01:03:24):
us to translate all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
All of us can speak to three languages if you understand,
maybe up to four languages. So whenever you're talking to
someone else in a different language, or you're communicating with
people from another state, you're doing it in your head. Right.
It's not something which is alien to ours or in
which we put a lot of effort. For instance, if
you see the International Booker list of any year, you
(01:03:48):
will see people from America or maybe someone from the UK.
They'll go to Japan, they'll settle there, they'll learn that
language for two three years, and then you know, start translating.
So I think it's a very long, drawn, not on,
a very painful process for them because you know, they
literally have to leave their home countries to do something different.
But we we hear, we can do it, I think
(01:04:08):
far more naturally and far more easier. And I think
it's the duty that all of us ow to each
other to bring our stories, you know, because like Chandon said,
without translation, I don't think you would have known what
is happening in Kerala. You wouldn't have known what is
happening in Karnataka. We you know who, like none of
us would have ever read Tollstar Bolano or any of them. Right.
(01:04:31):
So I think this is a big gift to have
so many translators working on this so dutifully and sometimes
without recognition as well. And definitely not the same amount
of theme. But if you talk about Indian the upcoming,
the you know, the sun sort of flourishing, I would
say translation scene. I think it's very promising because there
(01:04:52):
are universities and there are editing and publishing programs which
focus on translation, and who you know, train very young
translators to do the work. For example, these uh, these
writers can be as young as eighteen, nineteen and twenty, right,
really young kids who want to do it for whatever,
(01:05:12):
for whatever reasons they might be. And the for example,
I am from Jadaspo University and we did have our
course on course in translation, right, so people would do
their own translations and we would retranslation. So similarly, if
you talk about private universities, I know Ashoka University in
Sonipa has a very dedicated translation course Hunava and Rita
(01:05:35):
Potari they run the translation center, right. So I think
it's a very it's a thriving scene and there are
so now you have residencies for translators, you have grants,
you have funds. For example, Kartika who's translating Peti Gan,
he was given the PE grant to translate the book. Right.
So I think some things are taken care of for sure,
(01:05:59):
but I don't think we have yet at a stage
where we can claim to be something, you know, like
a full time career. I don't think it works that
way in most parts of the world. But I also
think because you can't do it full time, it makes
you more hungry to do it right because some things
when you are sort of there are some restrictions, so
you feel like you know there's some a rebellious streak
(01:06:21):
in you, and you want to do it. And I
also think for any writer, it's very important to be
grounded in reality. Right. I don't think we are in
those times when we can sit and write where we
are in our own ivory towers and we don't care
about what's happening outside. I think that era is up gone.
We can't do it. So we need our jobs as
teachers and engineers and managers or whatever it is, to
(01:06:44):
see what life is like outside and try to maybe
intellectualize it a little bit, celebritize it a little bit,
give it some esthetic, and turn it into our story.
Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
So, I think any writer you meet, any artists you meet,
they are all they all are full time jobs. It's
very important to participate in the society as like normal,
functional human beings, and not just because I don't think
any of us are trust fun and none of us
have like a lot of money stashed away somewhere that
we can dip into every now and then. Yeah, so
(01:07:16):
I think that's good. And the money from translation is
not a lot, but it does pay for some luxury.
It is right. You can take a vacation every now
and then you can buy your new laptop or a
mobile that you've denying. I think it's all fair. I
don't have a lot of complain about this. Of course
we could be you know, compensated a little more. I
think that always helps. But there are also prices like
(01:07:39):
GCB the GCV Award, which gives a translator equal rights
as the author. Right, And if you've seen for the
last I think it's in its seventh year now, and
for the last five years translations have one. So why
is that so? Because, like you said, the Indian the
India outside of English language is also very vast and
(01:08:01):
very thriving, and stories are coming in finally, and it's
a very exciting time to be a right translator. To
work in publishing in general, I think, yeah, yeah, lovely
the way you put it, that hungry, hungry for very
I'll admit that I also bordered it from Auna because
(01:08:22):
we do have this conversation very often where I complain that,
you know, why, why can't earn enough to just twitter
jobs and do this full time? And then he said,
like can you can you sit and translate twenty pages
a day? Like won't you get bored of it? Like
won't you get tired of it? And what would motivate
you to do it at all?
Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Right?
Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
Like you might want to then perhaps write your own section.
You have no reason to be translated then, But I think, yeah,
I think when you can't have something, you want it
even more so. I think that also works for because.
Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
You know, the minute something becomes a full time job
or something, it gets done, It gets done.
Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Absolutely, I think all of us, well, yeah, and another
thing you said, in India we're constantly translating, were so
multi lingual, all of us.
Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I don't speak, but I've heard it so much around
me and the family, I.
Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
Understand absolutely, yes, and even English, right, Like English accents
are very different, right, So the kind of English I
might be speaking is different from the English that a
person in Chenna is speaking, right, So even the accents
are so different, and there's so much language and dialects
inside one country. I think there should be some concentrated
(01:09:33):
effort to bring it to each other, you know too, Yeah,
let's see.
Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
No, you're doing your bit in that direction.
Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Yeah. The best part clarity and see very much clear
in thoughts, very much clear.
Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
My friend is bad. Two Bach awards. You have language
is okay, it's or old parts. Maybe there were other
books equally award like I remember when Mustach won this
(01:10:20):
award s Harris the other novel from the same place.
Same about that clock anti clock or something.
Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
It was.
Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Jack or we too very language, they said, palace, look coffee,
look expoker. We have our man Hindi efforts. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:10:59):
and Nilakshi alas alas I look brilliant writers eyeing a
sami to certainly change you pick some pick some available
fix fixed on writing like able fix we look at in.
Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
Hindi is such a whitey spoken language in the country.
The person of translation is very very little. I don't
know like what the reason for that might be. But
you see very still translations coming in from Hindi and
the field is mostly dominated by Malayalam and uh Banga
now a little bit, but and Hindia, I don't know,
(01:11:48):
it's lacking for some reason.
Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah, I think translations help a lot, because I, like
you said, you.
Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Know, but I think she's a billion or point. He
recently Mam Savarma a novel, the best novel in all
(01:12:19):
the languages we are reading Varia. It's not novel, Joki
of her jab Iranian, Joe, China, Timid Cheese, or it's
(01:12:47):
not novel. It's not Jojo writing itself, context who content,
the writing is regime a point before say my say, I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Sure maybe you should take that on next.
Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
I can't read them. And it's quite novel. It's around
two hundred and twelve graded according from what I can
see online.
Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Okay, which Akisonia g Akistania twelve b s you know
in a published a motive to hard one hundred and fifty.
But that is just and another thing, just the writing
part I think means you language helps me my height.
Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
The book. So there's clearly a Hindi translation that is
already there with it. We'll see, yes, So this concentrated
efforts need to happen. That you know, there's a book
from which has been done into Hindi. So now someone
that's picked up in English, yes, absolutely missing these planks.
Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
Hmm, yeah, like you're saying there's such fantastic work out,
then yeah, it can be in so yeah, I guess
we should end now it's so and then point message up.
They're not trying to readers.
Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Book, which way.
Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
The riding? Maybe what about you?
Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Anything?
Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
I think same, It doesn't matter if they're reading my
book for someone else's. I think I think reading is itself.
I think a lot of fun. A lot of people
don't really don't realize that. They think it it's a
very it's a very sobening activity. But I don't necessarily
agree to that. I think it's just a nice way
to unwind after a long day. And you know, and
(01:15:07):
I also think that like you know, it's Akri Savari
which read in Hindi, which was written in Urdu. So
I think people should start reading in their own languages
as well, like you know, not just depend on English
to read from, to read about their own paces and
about their own stories. Right, So, if I'm Bengali, maybe
I could read in Bangala, maybe I could read in Hindi.
(01:15:29):
And if there's a way to facilitate translations between two
Indian languages, is nothing like it, right, so for example,
Udu to Hindi, Bengali Tou to Bengali, Like, how wonderful
that would be, you know, And it relieveses of some
of the burden as well, right because you would think,
because because when you hear about such a beautiful book,
(01:15:50):
you immediately think, okay, at some point I will translate it.
But imagine if someone has already done that work for
you and made it available to another set of readers.
So I think that that's great, and I think it did.
I has heard a lot of people, like people who
are much senior than me, who said that they used
to eat short of Churndren and Robin or not in
their own languages, and for the longest time they thought
(01:16:10):
that maybe they wrote in Hindi or maybe they wrote
in Madayala. Yeah, they didn't even think that they are
actually Bengali writers, I think. But this culture has I
think completely disappeared in these few years. So I think
if there's a way to revive it, then then nothing
like it, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Yeah, absolutely, I think this is a great note to
end on. Thank you so much, and then and Jhari,
thank you loverly conversation
Hi, Welcome to swishing mindsets.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is Anaradha and today I'm speaking to award winning
writer Chandan Pande, who has recently come out with his
book The Keeper of Desolation published by HarperCollins India, and
Shairi Devnath, who has translated the stories.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
From Hindi to English.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The stories have been described as surreal yet gritty and
violent yet poetic, set in the heartland of India. Welcome Chandan,
Welcome Shairi, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So many of book Pari and it's right. I didn't
know how to describe it. So because they are very
poetic when you read them, and gritty as well, because
you know.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Stories and jaga.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But do take me out there story so intention compliment, complement.
Actually I don't know, because I love happy endings. I
(01:09):
love happy endings, but then sometimes it's good to, you know,
feel a little uncomfortable also, So I.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Think that is the case of more or less English leaders.
They like they like happy endings. So okays is but
an but have you can so as I could happy
ending hugating a collection a moment my close friends and
(01:53):
or serious reading with casualty inputs and my high regard
day ninety percent times opinion licking h to Khan named
Khan attains environmental mad said police tick positive character a
(02:16):
thousand uh get too many of Yeah, yes, it was
a mistake. Two your reality and your institutions saying juniperum
dependent of family who police who Yeah, we name institution
(02:38):
jouki individually killaugh no are you but is a very
political party your individual favor mcclaim. We we won a
degree apart maximum crucial mop over to a happy ending
to in fact happy ending to Bollywood nuanced version.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The happy ending name for Minnesota. Name of the book
is only Keeper of Desolation obviously but.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Hm q k you stalk introduce your title, Mary, but
hint the menu of six Floria to the jug just
(03:39):
be locus to he a struggle head. It's sane, sane
top milkle slowly degrade chau language to correct app of
(03:59):
this send to have happening.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's true and all of us, uh, you know, we
go deep inside and that is what you've captured.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
The man Mitcheldre. You know, we're always like the things
are getting destroyed. So many things are happening in our head.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Now outside things will be very normal, but inside we
may be completely destroyed the way stories. So it's this
is a compliment. Yeah, Shary, what did you think when
you first came across the stories?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
When I first came across the stories, I think I
had very little choice in this matter when it came
to translating them, because iron like when we were talking
about before, he wanted me to translate Chandon's stories because
he said, you know, we have these great collections short
fiction that chenden and mailed in some time before, and
(05:01):
he said, we have these, I think, really promising stories
and they're just sitting with me, So why don't you
take a shot at it, you know, just do them?
And I thought, okay, Well there was someone senior at
work who wanted me to do a project, and I
could not say no one. I said, okay, I'll try it.
And before long, I remember I had started it sometime
in July twenty twenty two, and by December I had
(05:24):
seven stories. So I translated seven stories, right, and it
was about maybe about seventy thousand words, sixty five seventy
thousand words. And when I started it, I think I
was doing them in a trance. I had to do
them one after the other and the next after that.
So I had very little time to think about the
stories per se, because when you're translating it, you're focusing
(05:48):
on the text at a very very cellular level, so
to speak, right, So you're focusing on the construction of
the sentence and the moods and the words and the
dialogues and stuff. So I read it properly when the
manuscript came back to me, when I had to submit
the manuscript, when I to edit it, and when it
came back to me from the editors with their inputs
in it, and that's when it was revealed to me
(06:11):
the depth and the gravity of what Chandan had written. Right,
and before that, I did not get the time. Really,
I was so busy and there was so much to
do at that point. But once I had finished doing it,
so sometime in twenty three, early twenty twenty three, that's
when I sacked with the stories as a reader, and
I read them from the start to the beginning, as
probably you would have, and I realized, okay, this is
(06:34):
really it's something, you know, really explosive and something really
disquieting that we have here. And there is like a
lot of bleakness and very little hope. But I think
the environment we are in today, or the country we
are into today, I think it is a reflection of
the times wearin, right, So there's no denying that, And
(06:55):
I think, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right, it's with us maybe because of that, you know,
because the reality is in our head. It is very
different from the comfortable existence that we have outside. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And I also feel that you don't have to tax
yourself very much to imagine this reality because it's already there.
This is what you read in the papers, and this
is what you see when you go online on your
Twitter and Instagram, right, So it's not you don't have
to exercise a lot of your time or your energy
imagining this scenario. So I think that is where the
(07:31):
biggest strength of these stories are.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, just how pure story and forgetting forgetting now they
forget one member in the household. It is says so
many things because you can understand the hopes that the
family has pinned on that boy, because it will change
the entire future, right, And you can feel day to
(07:56):
day survival. It's father loses his job and everything and
all that you know, and at the end of it,
like you feel responsible. Oh my god, that boy they
forget that he's exists in that household.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So whether I don't know if this is a cliche question,
but what is how does it germinate in your mind?
And then how do you take it to another level completely?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Mm hmm. I think legally Khan to about the s
(08:54):
I experience that oh show as pass crowd bout about
two or who or many times to pass to our
(09:25):
mayfield the mat with you agin to do ramda jakar
now now a better tie, Jackie, our our quest push
(09:52):
it to origin like in subsect subs queen much boot,
institution society. We have family to family. You see the
institution up named defense here to me wife, yeah, parents, power,
(10:18):
puls the powerful, a very young to birth to subsect, family, escape, heater, subse,
hyper sanstan hitter to subset. We met everybody, but in
(10:46):
part in him they make critic and Christian Gram Qui
Parai said, your cultural front had strong attackers, strong more
strong front attack attacker or your normal come your front
(11:10):
pay attacker thing to Mimi and Gram and a second
uh dometter political science subject classic cave cave literature something
two major meic okay, I was thinking on this line
(11:35):
to Mia j subsect but cheese family character Familica, who
carry Kern your electron neutron carry ox like we charged
particular carry's Americana chapel our Kina. The idea, uh, don't
(12:08):
you personal the novel had the white Castle post novel
about or uh styling to a confidence that actually say
the idea, yes, they to work up with your body
(12:35):
master s s the ideas explore, collect export to express
why I have to explore to eat process.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Starting points.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Easy confidence started pointing we leave ideally never confidence like
this idea to explore.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Actually have careens of my young rather than the logos.
But a plan manarojar picture.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
A so which is.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Maybe so our parents and maybe so remember but it's
good to remind. Remember, I mean your story is a
good reminder that this can happen. Yeah, or if stories
actually like the quite like I said, you uncomfortable and
they stay with you flour Milton worker.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Story.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But it's so sad and just for some money, you know,
because the interest is going up and the the principal
amount is so less.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
But for that.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
He is.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I think will correct me. It is written as the
alphabet of glass. Yeah, principal amount come alone, YadA, yes exactly?
(14:50):
Or people a model ju developed? Just how easily is
back at the cost of one limb? Let's say loan
(15:11):
lenah to would you exponentially increase head? Not that what
we call arithmetic progress geometric winning, exponential increase heir in
the Agraham literals to a cost of interest or cost
of principle? Technical? He would you or k a positive?
(15:41):
You escapema weak point? Both other build up log alba
(16:09):
to yoga pys logical. You know, how about explain? Would
you character help your wife say it's about explain said logo?
(16:30):
Mm hmm, politic.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Thank you, Shary.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What did you think of the stories? Is there any
that you know that touched you more? And these are
just two that I mentioned.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I think my favorite of that lot is it's
called naya in Hindi, but in English we have made
it into the mathematics of life. They're also you know,
there's by a tractor. He wants to buying a tractor
and deepen debt. And you know this guy's progressively losing
his mind. He's going to the class. He's not teaching
the lessons he's doing some humbo, you know, mumbo jumbo
(17:10):
getting a thing up calculations exactly. It's a very funny story,
like despite the graveness of the issue and this obvious turmo,
and this poor chap is in and he's not old.
He's twenty eight. He is my age. And you know
at the end he says, team uh, I'm doing a
rough I'm doing a rough paraphrasing. He says, I'm an
(17:31):
old man at twenty eight, you know, And you can
really feel the pain that this guy is in, right.
He thinks that this is the end of life. He
can never repay this nominal amount of money trelac, which
is not much to either of any of us. But
you know, these are these small amounts be up picare
I think, you know, the principle is very little, but
(17:51):
that you know, when you add interress to it, then
it turns into something really ugly and newmongers, right, and
we don't realize it. For many people in our country,
a lack or three lave or two lack is something
they can't even imagine. Right. And there's this guy who's
just twenty eight and he's given up on his life
and his father and all these people in the village,
(18:11):
some you know, accosting him, you know, coaxing him to
take a loan so that they can make some money
out of it. And I really like the format as well,
like it's an you know, it's like a letter. I mean,
it is a letter to the Prime Minister. And the
PS section is really funny. He addresses the American President
first and then he addresses God because you know, he says, like,
(18:34):
obviously the American President is more important than you at
the moment. So I think that is my favorite because
it's a really funny story no matter what. And I
had and I had great fun translating it. It was
also the first study I translated. It was my introduction
to Chandan, and I thought, okay, this is going to
be a fun right. And besides that, the other story,
(18:55):
which I also like very much is the title story,
The Keeper of Desolation, which I think also works as
a sort of a feeble because you know, there's this
lady who has lost her rings and suddenly the entire
town is up in arms trying to recover it from
for her. And it's a really short story as compared
to the other. In the connection, I think it's It
(19:17):
runs at about seven thousand words, and I think that
was also fun. I think these two were a little
different from the the other, more cheerful, and there's there's
an inventiveness in the form as well. So I got
to do something different with them.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
No, it was and also I think, uh, the article Quin,
the article Quin, the story, Yeah, very very interesting read
that because it's true.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, because that job has lost the luster. I lost
the luster for such a small thing. You can get
written to death.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, so they're selling vegetables now, Yeah, they work in
the police. You know. I think I think that that
was a clam story.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And interesting because the side of the times. No, the
generation of thieves is very different.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The charm, the charm, the charm really so Jan then
up there so are connection many family or I think
(20:49):
legal fiction, many Hindi English and many hind legal fiction. Partner.
So it was up in uh the.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Okay, okay, And so yeah, the character.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Or because coffee stories and Keeper of Desolation maybe coffee stories.
So I was very thrilled personally.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Story.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So it was small towns and you know, even people
like we are used to reading about people like us, right,
I sadly realized this one is a laborer, this one
is this.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You know it's it's uh, it's nice.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Honey, ma, I know connection or.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Or very honest Jada kitchen problems dropped that sha you
know through mathematical formula just using an interesting story to esca.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Mm hm.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
H they were all a question was actually abi is
a massive income pali jerm phil banaras or uh they
(22:40):
were jacket past lata two highly higher in chak rome
you can remained payaki m hm or by writers lead
me okay, who manage jo whom is a barn like
(23:04):
in bangor mang like in memory memory seconds equip memory
dill this equip memory equip memory memory Hey like Kamcha
(23:30):
Mara down, you have ultimately a middle Lutni given passage
down Yeah, childhood rest all you have fake hey yeah
sky reminiscence but k town misty Mary wife two job
(23:56):
mayor ban town the town but cruise yak tabi what
about the may have my job down to mister X
(24:24):
may tector government. You have pet the development case well
tractor huge investment to ma mister X retired to teta
(24:50):
Tectorumia you tector our bank. You do parallels in beach may.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
You?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I said target you retired, who's the head or convince
business model, heir or business model twenty to thirty percent
to attract.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Loo it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
To a couple of conquer the conquer high retired passes
milk to lifelong.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You can.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Pick a daily earnings guilt. Okay, a single moment of repent.
He changed me about Si, the entire heartlessness about jadakal repel.
(26:21):
He may explored about the export characters, like basic idea
of he Chi. Last moment you subject a plank, but
(26:52):
he he is not at all aware about the interested
part of that. He was interested last moment to say
a click shortly to che coman thrust to describe.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And really ka honey park, my god kidnam border. He
was in the what maybe they correct chapter Jonga that
could be interested. You're right straightforward message.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
So h yeah, Christmas.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Sa they were young excited.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
We are not take Jackie both sides factors of them. Okay.
My writer who manager to her children like Mai Sari.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
In fact, we.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
May suburb in West Karrega, Domenica.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Mm hmm, she's the li.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And like what what is the right word humble people.
I mean it's sounds elitist, but Hindi mal okay open
stories and you know to Hindi writers is her stories liquors.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Are actually example, legal fiction was not about the juana
like calas one school klass one English to pay hendy
(29:22):
ma jesu you roots o other close thing look jo
to ja or quality candid otherwise production to her to
(29:46):
act difference mm hmm by alex in Hindi or English.
In fact you see the language man who asked uh
ga jena in the side writer unless until he's not
(30:14):
retired from a big job, a good job two grammy
imagine struggle can now had you yas an Indian hump
his sister to Isa toad may music honestly but you
(30:47):
obviously name the culture were diminished both culture to you
urbanized push ah Graham given about near those or lumber
(31:14):
in the soft homeal if he pushed level the two
t like it's put both other break name Joe Joe,
you know level pay to level wide level payment movie
like cruelty is hang just person pay made you engagement
(31:40):
and aciously a behave no politicized or highly critical towards others.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Or or.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Image you in deficient element? He yeah, can your Hindi
(32:28):
writers quot difference hexample?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
But this is.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Interesting, would you up there?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know we tend to look at a village like
as you know, all things innocent now, so maybe it's
our own an over indulgence or fantasy or something shari
or do you yeah, you've translated. You know you're obviously
you're a culture writer at Scroll and you know you've
(32:55):
translated a lot of work. I'm sure Hindi from Hindi
and Bengali. So do you see any difference in tone?
And you know when you're translating from you know, regional languages.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
So I grew up in small towns.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
My father had a job which required is to move
very often. So before we came to Tangata, I grew
up in Rajasthan, Gujarat and mah Rashtra. Right, So we
stayed in places like Chatoga and gas and Gujarat which
are very small. I wouldn't say they have very small towns,
(33:32):
but they do have the small town mentality so to speak, right,
which is very different from metros. As you would agree, right,
you have come from the Orea and even Lutno is
very different from Delhi. Right, we have the people talk
and behave and all of that. So that's I think.
So that is my Hindi connect because I did not
grow up reading or writing in Bangala. I still cannot
(33:53):
write in Bangala because I never studied it in school, right,
So my Hindi connection comes from there. And so chances
is the first book are translated from Hindi. And then
I moved on to another writer whose stories is also
incidentally set in the village, but it's a coming up
h story and there are a lot of child characters.
(34:16):
And in Bengali, I've been doing some really urban stories, right,
which are a little macaban, but they're all set in cities.
So the difference, I think, I think it's too early
for me to tell at this stage because I'm working
or whatever I can get my hands on, and I
don't really make the differentiation of where the story has originated,
(34:37):
so to speak. But even if you if I were
to talk about The Keeper of Desolation only you will
see that the stories, some of them are also set
in Deli and in a slightly bigger towns, right, not
just villages. For example, the story the decision that is
in Deli, right, the couple who are separated a long
(34:57):
time ago and then they lived up for many years.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
So I think so we travel. I think for any writer,
I think they keep traveling from one geography to another.
So even if you read some really urban Indian writers
who write in English, you will see that even in
their stories, they do not then stuck to like one cities.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
If they're traveled abroad, they will write about those experiences.
If they've been to the village, they write about those experiences.
So I think the whole geography bit is so fluid
these days because even you and I you know, will
take a flight and in a few hours will we're
in a different continent. We're experiencing a completely different life.
Or you take a train and in two hours I'm
(35:36):
in a slightly smaller town in westban Gold, Right. So
I think a psyche also keeps changing, and we try
to see and adapt with things differently to as closely
as we can in the physical surroundings that we are in.
But as of now, I have seen changes, yes, in
the story, and the concerns are different. Like when your urban,
(35:59):
you're more concerned about the the corruption that you might
face in you know, in like in building a house
in a certain neighborhood, or your neighbors who are too nosy, right,
stuff like that. But when you're in village, then you're
handling something really sort of urgents, such as you know,
really high debts, or there are no bridges, there's no
(36:20):
drinking water, so the struggles might be different. But I
think everyone has mis fighting something or the other, depending
on where they are and the economic or the physical
space that they by me occupying. Yes, I don't know
if that made a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
No, No, it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, and uh, you know you mentioned the decision and
you know, I don't know. I'm just drawing connections. It
may not be correct, but just make exculfriend them or
some No, there be many of people with career, so
we'll say we Exculfriner call are there and you you know,
(37:03):
just the Africa memory past, majority your characters given the
has it's my connection.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
His he here the decision Jokhan ted who Uti who
those provinments? Classic trio. It's a awsome mossim Nam the
(37:40):
Chican j Now.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Persons story mammals.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
That she's a quick and except about Alca mention passing
reference to May like skill manages his story build up here,
(38:14):
Uh what Maykani and city public school? City public school?
To my name balcony or need to say schools or
(38:35):
curve of thighs, curvet whose curbageable bike? More a ball?
A short meriment may yeah a short man school desiper
city public school or kanity is main back to three
(39:01):
QUI experience like in yeah Khan decision to Suso described crinical.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
But is the mal.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Or silences the malcar It's maybe the decision maybe decision
Yeah you couple coffee one but for bold Africa.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Or so.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I don't know whether I'm just catching onto it. It's
a coincidence. Yeah, you deliberately use these silences.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
I think.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Naming it deliberate or naming it coincidence, I think gives
you termit as my limits my limitations is the art
of novel forty six words? Shoot a dictionary? He who
(40:26):
words writing house? Maybe the unbeailable likeness of being maybe
character a tool? So tools were Jahavi? Silence to your reader,
(40:53):
reader who check okay, silence your question.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I don't want to make you conscious at all.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
You know, sorry is a tool our silence Je spoken
up and said, gonna put a development now, Gash that
(41:27):
is a rose uh your character rose woody character. It's
not character a family out poor film and I to
(41:51):
shoot loneliness after sing just satyaki papaet transfers to like
emotional transfers, my bio transfers town in ninety four me
(42:12):
my seventh classmate transfer transfer or such kurque maamping classmates
school they prison is narna pushing pernice school for nine
school for nice school question silence saying yeah introvert Yeah
(42:40):
to jo mb word about the other extra war time
both the extra war time mamlo extremely introverted to s
I push development at Jobi s a a rooted and
(43:05):
around was a consequence with around ninety percent times Madal
life book Dominica town but medic other some ne the
chatter to make the town chick away Whi or nicol.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, mm hmm, that's true.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Interesting Actually yea iska Hindi version by English.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
India.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah, said maybe a Chai legal six and to take
selection of stories or jake one to unlook have practice
selection of does khanya have al t the knyical meteord
(44:12):
of critical to manage you can past when I have
many very male manh or give you a story to
your selection of storage and a may A chart colection
by Dushra Johnson, Tira rave Chote doing in chaos. You
(44:36):
selection mana who Kanye is man?
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Okay? And the second part keep saying, so I guess
English translation.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
English translateth that's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Process may have okay songs of glory.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, that's the working title they okay.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Actually obviously, like you're not a full time writer, and
you said it's difficult also to be a full time writer.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
So how do you find time.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Not just physical time, you know, even emotionally mentally, how
do you invest in writing stories?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And why.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Why part was the most important part? I'll tell you
like how part is the most important? UK? It is
all because.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
P t.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
O you say, But which are half or does half
a push back? Managed background may space, milk gapper time.
Then this is one thing. Second thing he marry made
(46:12):
a job is like travel.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
But the.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Flight in the town to Oju grant come in and
push at the bay or in he flights my my
name novel a challenge to sim do why part of
(46:42):
to first answer Mila like otherwise to miniground or why
you want to party? Is a cheese head? Explore carneicau
(47:04):
j John for example, shoot us a call a writer
post you are like a klank. So I was surprised, Yeah,
you are Huna to the business is my award up
a chronical magazine school under thirty, under thirteen under thirty
(47:31):
undred forty business the writer explicitly a car at the
ball day. He neighbor says, school, you are an adulteras
just old examples, and yeah, I started practicing of being
old days from the age of fourteen. He con coming
to old Honai to cure my police practice. Start CLO
(47:53):
two just reverse examples. Joe and I said, look deferent
connect DIY explore or explore parts.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
It's nice you're exploring deep concepts, the why, why, q
s A Y and shari? What about you? What grew
you to translation?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yes? I think it was just great fun and like it.
I had no intention of doing it. I just the
stories were given to me and I started doing them
for fun. You know, I had some time to kill
or why not? And if you ever separate translation, I
think it's it's a lot of fun and it takes
your mind of things, I think, which we can all
(48:51):
you know what you all want right every now and then.
And the good thing about translating is that the blank
page is your friend. Right, You're not scared of it.
You're not scared of what to put it down, because
someone has already done that very hard work for you.
For example, whatever Chan then has thought, you know, some
things that may be like originated in his childhood and
he's writing about it in his adulthood, like, these are
(49:14):
challenges which I have never had to face. Right, He's
given me this banayas out of this whole world, and
I can just like and I can do my very
best to bring it into a different language. So I
think because because you are not scared of what this
project will entail, and the white page is beautiful, it
is inviting. And if you think that today I'm going
(49:36):
to do five pages of translation, or I'm going to
translate three thousand words, and if you set your mind
to it, you can do it right, and you will
see that at the end of the day, if you
have a if you have a to do list, and
if you have done three things of it, you feel
very good about it. Right, it's an accomplishment, you feel
good about it. The think transition also works for me
(49:57):
in that regard because I always set a goal for
my myself every day, like today morning, I'm going to
do five pages. I'm going to do so many words.
And when I do it, when I've done successfully, I
feel good and I think the day starts on a
positive note. And I think that's more than anyone can
ask for, right, So I think it's as simple as that.
And because I do a lot of writing which is
(50:20):
not fiction and which is not quote unquote you know,
writing stories or writing poetry, but I have to write
a lot for work as a journalist, you would agree, right,
there's a lot of writing that you have to do.
And sometimes you don't want to use your brain to
that extent, right, You don't want to cook up new words.
You don't want to think of a plot line or
a dialogue. And I think this is where also translation helps,
(50:42):
because you are practicing writing, you're practicing thinking. But then
someone has done the hard work for you and you
take it from there.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, And does it take you out of your comfort
zone at times, like I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Always always, Yeah, it is other times and you don't
agree with one thing.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
And you feel you so see, I'll tell you something.
The thing about the challenger comfort zone that you said.
So my first and foremost challenge that comes uh uh
for translating from Hindi is that I don't speak Hindi right,
not anymore. I don't need to. So if you ask
(51:21):
me to speak at length for a minute or two,
I will start to fumble because I've lost the practice
of speaking in Hindi. But I can read it fluently.
I don't know how much I can write it anymore.
And I understand all of it, of course, but I
can't speak it. It's very difficult for me to have
a conversation in Hindi like and then will agree to it.
I switch to English very quickly because I can't hold
(51:42):
myself in that language for very long. And secondly, what
happens is when you live in a place like or
even bold, perhaps you don't hear a lot of Hindi
around you, which has anything to do with the Hindi
that Chansen writes in. It's a very very different Hindi world.
And whatever hind we speak in West Bengal or maybe
in Kolkata, it is for very like transactional reasons. Right,
(52:05):
maybe you're talking to a shopkeeper, or you're talking to
you know, a neighbor who speaks in Hindi and you
just you're just exchanging some pleasantries. So that is I
think one of my biggest challenges because I can't think
in Hindi anymore. So it takes me a little longer
to settle into a Hindi text as compared to a
Bengali one, where where I can sort of, you know,
start very naturally and do it far quicker. Right, I
(52:29):
think that is one problem. And about agreeing and not agreeing.
I don't think there is I have encountered anything in
Chandan's text or other Hindi writers I'm working with that
will sort of explicitly have my disapproval. I think there
are texts like I would want to steer clear of
some something which is, you know, too sexist or two misogynists,
(52:53):
or has certain ideologies I might not agree with. I
think that's a choice you can make that you know,
I do not want to work with this, right because
I don't agree with the text, but which and then
I've had no problem. I agree to most things he
writes about I empathize with these issues. You know, I
feel sympathy, rather can I continue sympathy. I sympathize with
(53:14):
these people who are obviously, you know, in in trouble,
and they are there are certain grievances that Schenden addresses.
So I think this is a good balance that I've
struck in the very first book, Like I haven't had
to go out of my way to convince the author
to trust me or you know, to really like, I
don't think we ever had a fight or we got
(53:35):
into a disagreement. It was a very amicable relationship and
you know, we worked very smoothly. So I think I
think that's your biggest gifts when you work as a
when you're a translator.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Yeah, and what you said that you know, we're not
speaking Hindi so much anymore and it's not as familiar
as it used to be. Maybe that's an advantage because
then you know you're not doing a literal literal translation,
word toward translation.
Speaker 4 (53:58):
So I think many people who do not translate often
think that it is a word to word translation when
it is not. It usually is not because if you
do a word to word translation, then you are not
any better than let's sitch at GPT or any other
AI tool. Right, So your mission is not to bring
a literal quote unquote for the lack of a better
(54:19):
phase translation to the English reader, because I think that's
a disservice. When you read a novel that is written
in English, you are not reading it. You're not treating
it just for the story, right. You're reading it because
the sentences are very beautifully constructed. You really like some
of the word choices, some of the phrase choices, and
the mood that the novel sets. Right, And as a translator,
(54:41):
you have the same duty towards the text in the
Hindi language language or whatever language you're choosing to work from,
to recreate those same things.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
For example, you said you felt very uncomfortable when you
read certain stories, or you were feeding bread, or you
were rooting for a character to not have their legs chopped. Right,
I think that is my duty to bring to have
you feel the same emotions that the Hindi reader also
felt by reading these stories in Hindi.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
I think if I focused just on bringing the art
sub who are right? So it was morning, I think
that wouldn't convey the same emotions of course you have
to follow the text, there's no other way. But you
have to also be sort of alert to the other
emotions and the silences and the exaggerations and whatever. It's
not said. You know, you also have to focus on
(55:31):
those things and keep them alive to the best of
your abilities.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, the emotion has to be conveyed right right.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yeah, name generous and transa either it is equal to
the writer's effort idea beause than that many push translations found?
(56:04):
Can you say Kaminski, Katy, Ferris and Wang comany translations
Henrik Borgaki shoot shooting translation, who up? Whose cheez? Would
you up? Part I? Imaging k It's not difficult, the
(56:30):
real biggest challenge or metros and your writers co world, Oh,
more than fifty percent translators any hamas translations available? Then?
Is okay to kidnas or saying look lucky take your
(56:56):
man intermitted past, Who's work pass tallosty or a hi
availevelically our comy training name normal to Joe a name
or is and the keeper of this list? Yes, trans particular, yes,
(57:26):
but I think generous theme otherwise effort or his gap
to completely easily a man second fiddly Joe that death
is the last, but some opinion rap that that is
the last, or the trans translator Joe school another until
(57:52):
he's not. He's not making a blunder.
Speaker 4 (57:56):
That's so nice because the reader and I also think
as a translator, you should if you can, then you
should avoid reading the book first before translating, because when
you read stories right, you feel a lot of things.
You make. You take a side with you side with
some characters. You approve of certain situations, you disapprove of others.
(58:19):
So what happens It sometimes inflicts your opinions when you
are translating right, and you make these judgments on behalf
of the details. So you can't do that. It's best
to walk into our text blind. Maybe you know little
bit about it, but not everything, and then you are,
you know, as new to the text as perhaps when
(58:40):
the author was when they were writing it. It is
also a way to sort of recreate the authenticity of
you know, what is being written.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, that's a lovely way to put it. Walk into
it blind, Yeah, very nice.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
Just trust the author that they've done a good job
and you're here to pick it up.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Really nice to the writing influences, but up up camp,
the influences and c because but a few bed keeper
now football bat keeper.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
Because there were very less distractions. The influences then.
Speaker 3 (59:24):
The partner just americal choice, johopper, Investi Chan Jobu, cinema
who to man yea oh was come and made not
comfortable to minor the to may to blessed enough, not
(59:56):
based enough joy maslavra to post influences man didn't Who
is maleva actually school man Jose and Josh Guru Like
(01:00:30):
Inaya to Aba they say man Jim Haney plett a
ritual ma h tuesdays Yester mark you know, ok yeah, okay,
(01:01:01):
just the start of the ses ham k trigger question
yea love another dame on the Una no jojo your
deep emotion just the Persson Robert or two triples six
(01:01:30):
both towns, two triples six some day both jes say
your short flights saying he did as a mask Jami
(01:01:53):
where she played Khan or the sooner lick in just
tak described two last.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
They not just influence, I mean what do you enjoy sometime?
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Answer correct and I think maybe many for her yes, books, yeah, shary,
what about you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
And when it comes to translations, could you tell us
a little bit about the scene and what's I mean,
what are the prospects and how do you see it
in India?
Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Right in India?
Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
Yeah, yeah, So I think, uh, like Chanden said, it's
very difficult to like only write full time. I don't
think we are in a situation economically where we can,
you know, like wrap up everything and do what we
really like it. The world doesn't work like that. And
you know, you have to have a full time job
and you have to earn your bread and so I
(01:03:01):
think so I also have a job and I and
I try to write daily unless I'm traveling or there's something,
you know, for some reason, I can't, but I try
to write daily. And I think translation is a very
up and coming sort of field, I would say, or
a vocation in India, because I think it's normal for
(01:03:24):
us to translate all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
All of us can speak to three languages if you understand,
maybe up to four languages. So whenever you're talking to
someone else in a different language, or you're communicating with
people from another state, you're doing it in your head. Right.
It's not something which is alien to ours or in
which we put a lot of effort. For instance, if
you see the International Booker list of any year, you
(01:03:48):
will see people from America or maybe someone from the UK.
They'll go to Japan, they'll settle there, they'll learn that
language for two three years, and then you know, start translating.
So I think it's a very long, drawn, not on,
a very painful process for them because you know, they
literally have to leave their home countries to do something different.
But we we hear, we can do it, I think
(01:04:08):
far more naturally and far more easier. And I think
it's the duty that all of us ow to each
other to bring our stories, you know, because like Chandon said,
without translation, I don't think you would have known what
is happening in Kerala. You wouldn't have known what is
happening in Karnataka. We you know who, like none of
us would have ever read Tollstar Bolano or any of them. Right.
(01:04:31):
So I think this is a big gift to have
so many translators working on this so dutifully and sometimes
without recognition as well. And definitely not the same amount
of theme. But if you talk about Indian the upcoming,
the you know, the sun sort of flourishing, I would
say translation scene. I think it's very promising because there
(01:04:52):
are universities and there are editing and publishing programs which
focus on translation, and who you know, train very young
translators to do the work. For example, these uh, these
writers can be as young as eighteen, nineteen and twenty, right,
really young kids who want to do it for whatever,
(01:05:12):
for whatever reasons they might be. And the for example,
I am from Jadaspo University and we did have our
course on course in translation, right, so people would do
their own translations and we would retranslation. So similarly, if
you talk about private universities, I know Ashoka University in
Sonipa has a very dedicated translation course Hunava and Rita
(01:05:35):
Potari they run the translation center, right. So I think
it's a very it's a thriving scene and there are
so now you have residencies for translators, you have grants,
you have funds. For example, Kartika who's translating Peti Gan,
he was given the PE grant to translate the book. Right.
So I think some things are taken care of for sure,
(01:05:59):
but I don't think we have yet at a stage
where we can claim to be something, you know, like
a full time career. I don't think it works that
way in most parts of the world. But I also
think because you can't do it full time, it makes
you more hungry to do it right because some things
when you are sort of there are some restrictions, so
you feel like you know there's some a rebellious streak
(01:06:21):
in you, and you want to do it. And I
also think for any writer, it's very important to be
grounded in reality. Right. I don't think we are in
those times when we can sit and write where we
are in our own ivory towers and we don't care
about what's happening outside. I think that era is up gone.
We can't do it. So we need our jobs as
teachers and engineers and managers or whatever it is, to
(01:06:44):
see what life is like outside and try to maybe
intellectualize it a little bit, celebritize it a little bit,
give it some esthetic, and turn it into our story.
Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
So, I think any writer you meet, any artists you meet,
they are all they all are full time jobs. It's
very important to participate in the society as like normal,
functional human beings, and not just because I don't think
any of us are trust fun and none of us
have like a lot of money stashed away somewhere that
we can dip into every now and then. Yeah, so
(01:07:16):
I think that's good. And the money from translation is
not a lot, but it does pay for some luxury.
It is right. You can take a vacation every now
and then you can buy your new laptop or a
mobile that you've denying. I think it's all fair. I
don't have a lot of complain about this. Of course
we could be you know, compensated a little more. I
think that always helps. But there are also prices like
(01:07:39):
GCB the GCV Award, which gives a translator equal rights
as the author. Right, And if you've seen for the
last I think it's in its seventh year now, and
for the last five years translations have one. So why
is that so? Because, like you said, the Indian the
India outside of English language is also very vast and
(01:08:01):
very thriving, and stories are coming in finally, and it's
a very exciting time to be a right translator. To
work in publishing in general, I think, yeah, yeah, lovely
the way you put it, that hungry, hungry for very
I'll admit that I also bordered it from Auna because
(01:08:22):
we do have this conversation very often where I complain that,
you know, why, why can't earn enough to just twitter
jobs and do this full time? And then he said,
like can you can you sit and translate twenty pages
a day? Like won't you get bored of it? Like
won't you get tired of it? And what would motivate
you to do it at all?
Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Right?
Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
Like you might want to then perhaps write your own section.
You have no reason to be translated then, But I think, yeah,
I think when you can't have something, you want it
even more so. I think that also works for because.
Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
You know, the minute something becomes a full time job
or something, it gets done, It gets done.
Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Absolutely, I think all of us, well, yeah, and another
thing you said, in India we're constantly translating, were so
multi lingual, all of us.
Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I don't speak, but I've heard it so much around
me and the family, I.
Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
Understand absolutely, yes, and even English, right, Like English accents
are very different, right, So the kind of English I
might be speaking is different from the English that a
person in Chenna is speaking, right, So even the accents
are so different, and there's so much language and dialects
inside one country. I think there should be some concentrated
(01:09:33):
effort to bring it to each other, you know too, Yeah,
let's see.
Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
No, you're doing your bit in that direction.
Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Yeah. The best part clarity and see very much clear
in thoughts, very much clear.
Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
My friend is bad. Two Bach awards. You have language
is okay, it's or old parts. Maybe there were other
books equally award like I remember when Mustach won this
(01:10:20):
award s Harris the other novel from the same place.
Same about that clock anti clock or something.
Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
It was.
Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Jack or we too very language, they said, palace, look coffee,
look expoker. We have our man Hindi efforts. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:10:59):
and Nilakshi alas alas I look brilliant writers eyeing a
sami to certainly change you pick some pick some available
fix fixed on writing like able fix we look at in.
Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
Hindi is such a whitey spoken language in the country.
The person of translation is very very little. I don't
know like what the reason for that might be. But
you see very still translations coming in from Hindi and
the field is mostly dominated by Malayalam and uh Banga
now a little bit, but and Hindia, I don't know,
(01:11:48):
it's lacking for some reason.
Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah, I think translations help a lot, because I, like
you said, you.
Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Know, but I think she's a billion or point. He
recently Mam Savarma a novel, the best novel in all
(01:12:19):
the languages we are reading Varia. It's not novel, Joki
of her jab Iranian, Joe, China, Timid Cheese, or it's
(01:12:47):
not novel. It's not Jojo writing itself, context who content,
the writing is regime a point before say my say, I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Sure maybe you should take that on next.
Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
I can't read them. And it's quite novel. It's around
two hundred and twelve graded according from what I can
see online.
Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Okay, which Akisonia g Akistania twelve b s you know
in a published a motive to hard one hundred and fifty.
But that is just and another thing, just the writing
part I think means you language helps me my height.
Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
The book. So there's clearly a Hindi translation that is
already there with it. We'll see, yes, So this concentrated
efforts need to happen. That you know, there's a book
from which has been done into Hindi. So now someone
that's picked up in English, yes, absolutely missing these planks.
Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
Hmm, yeah, like you're saying there's such fantastic work out,
then yeah, it can be in so yeah, I guess
we should end now it's so and then point message up.
They're not trying to readers.
Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Book, which way.
Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
The riding? Maybe what about you?
Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Anything?
Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
I think same, It doesn't matter if they're reading my
book for someone else's. I think I think reading is itself.
I think a lot of fun. A lot of people
don't really don't realize that. They think it it's a
very it's a very sobening activity. But I don't necessarily
agree to that. I think it's just a nice way
to unwind after a long day. And you know, and
(01:15:07):
I also think that like you know, it's Akri Savari
which read in Hindi, which was written in Urdu. So
I think people should start reading in their own languages
as well, like you know, not just depend on English
to read from, to read about their own paces and
about their own stories. Right, So, if I'm Bengali, maybe
I could read in Bangala, maybe I could read in Hindi.
(01:15:29):
And if there's a way to facilitate translations between two
Indian languages, is nothing like it, right, so for example,
Udu to Hindi, Bengali Tou to Bengali, Like, how wonderful
that would be, you know, And it relieveses of some
of the burden as well, right because you would think,
because because when you hear about such a beautiful book,
(01:15:50):
you immediately think, okay, at some point I will translate it.
But imagine if someone has already done that work for
you and made it available to another set of readers.
So I think that that's great, and I think it did.
I has heard a lot of people, like people who
are much senior than me, who said that they used
to eat short of Churndren and Robin or not in
their own languages, and for the longest time they thought
(01:16:10):
that maybe they wrote in Hindi or maybe they wrote
in Madayala. Yeah, they didn't even think that they are
actually Bengali writers, I think. But this culture has I
think completely disappeared in these few years. So I think
if there's a way to revive it, then then nothing
like it, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Yeah, absolutely, I think this is a great note to
end on. Thank you so much, and then and Jhari,
thank you loverly conversation
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