November 17, 2024 • 58 mins
When Mumbai-based Gopika Kapoor and Moneisha Gandhi, moms of Vir Kapoor and Mihaan Dhall, witnessed how life-changing friendship proved to be for their neurodivergent young sons, they decided to launch Buddy Up – A Friendship App for People with Disabilities & their Caregivers. While Vir, who is on the autism spectrum, is quiet, Mihaan, who has Down Syndrome, loves to talk non-stop, the two clicked and now “buddy up” for concerts, sleepovers, board games and dance parties. Listen in as Gopika and Moneisha talk about their app and how friendship is the best therapy.
While Gopika is a neurodiversity consultant and an author, who also wrote the book Beyond the Blue: Love, Life & Autism on her parenting experience, Moneisha formerly ran an embroidery export company and volunteers at the Ummeed Parent Resource Centre. Both are advocates of diversity and inclusion.
Download the app on Google Play
Download on the Mac App Store
Follow Buddy Up on Instagram
Follow Buddy Up on YouTube
Follow Buddy Up on Facebook
Timestamps
00:54 Gopika’s introduction and meeting Moneisha
05:08 Moneisha’s introduction, finding friends for Mihaan
15:13 An uncomplicated friendship
16:16 Navigating siblings
21:17 About Buddy Up
24:50 Support for newly diagnosed parents of neurodivergent kids
26:00 Gopika’s book and five stages of grief after diagnosis
29:30 Spreading the word about Buddy Up
32:40 Learnings from neurodivergent focus groups
37:00 How the Buddy Up app works
43:00 How parents can make social connections
46:15 Moneisha on meeting the parent of an older Down Syndrome child
48:00 Stimming and what it means
56:25 Moneisha’s son’s experience in an inclusive school
Follow and share to grow the conversation.
Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
Email: swishingmindsets@gmail.com
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.
While Gopika is a neurodiversity consultant and an author, who also wrote the book Beyond the Blue: Love, Life & Autism on her parenting experience, Moneisha formerly ran an embroidery export company and volunteers at the Ummeed Parent Resource Centre. Both are advocates of diversity and inclusion.
Download the app on Google Play
Download on the Mac App Store
Follow Buddy Up on Instagram
Follow Buddy Up on YouTube
Follow Buddy Up on Facebook
Timestamps
00:54 Gopika’s introduction and meeting Moneisha
05:08 Moneisha’s introduction, finding friends for Mihaan
15:13 An uncomplicated friendship
16:16 Navigating siblings
21:17 About Buddy Up
24:50 Support for newly diagnosed parents of neurodivergent kids
26:00 Gopika’s book and five stages of grief after diagnosis
29:30 Spreading the word about Buddy Up
32:40 Learnings from neurodivergent focus groups
37:00 How the Buddy Up app works
43:00 How parents can make social connections
46:15 Moneisha on meeting the parent of an older Down Syndrome child
48:00 Stimming and what it means
56:25 Moneisha’s son’s experience in an inclusive school
Follow and share to grow the conversation.
Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
Email: swishingmindsets@gmail.com
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Welcome to Swishing Mindsets.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is a Radha and today we are speaking Toka
Kapol and Monicia Kandi, both moms of neurodivergent young people.
Weir Kapol and Mihandhal. They have launched buddy Up, a
friendship app for people with disabilities and their caregivers. While
is a neuro diversity consultant and an author who also
wrote the book Beyond the Blue, Love Life and Autism
(00:24):
on her parenting experience. Monsha formally ran an embroidery export
company and volunteers at the OME Parent Resource Center. Both
are advocates of diversity and inclusion. So Hi Monsha Anda,
Hi Hi Hi. So uh let's start with ba, I've
just since I've just finished reading your book. Would you
(00:45):
like it do and like to do an introduction for
yourself and and buddy up there?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Sure? Sure? So I think I am sometimes known as Ve's.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Mom, so I actually am Mumbai based. I started out
as a journalist, didn't know much about autism, and I
think we introduced to our entire family to that word
and the condition and what it's like to live with it.
(01:20):
It's been a journey of about sixteen years since he
was diagnosed, and.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Many ups, many downs, a lot more ups, I would
have to say. And I worked for ten years.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
At MEI Child Development Center, which is the place where
we was diagnosed, because I felt a very strong sense
of the privilege that I had when I used to
take him there for therapy in terms of economic privilege,
social privilege, and I really felt that I needed to
give back in some way. When I quit to me
(01:56):
I decided to write this book because I've got a
journalistic background and writing was the thing that came most
easily to me. And at that time, I knew that
there was no book in India about any parents lived experience
of autism. There were lots of resources that I found
which were from the US, from the UK, from Australia,
(02:19):
but nothing had that specific Indian flavor to it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And I felt that it was time to write.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Something like this, and I was also at the point
in my journey when I could write about it. And
so Beyond the Blue happened. And around that time, I
think a little before that, our friend Munisha and my
common friend doctor Viva Krishna Mute, who runs UMID. She's
the founder of UMMED. She had been telling me for
a long time. She said, you know, we're should meet
(02:46):
Mihan and he should become friends with him.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And she had been Monisha had been looking for a friend.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
For Mihan, and so Weba had said that you should
meet Weir and somehow it just never happened. It took
us about a year and a half till we finally
got the boys to meet. The first time they met
was in Monisha's house and we said we should have
an activity because otherwise they won't know what to do
with themselves. And so they baked a chocolate cake while
Monsha and I sat and had teeth and.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I think it was that and maybe the next.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Meeting where they baked some really awful tasting but beautiful
looking rain book rainbow creps.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
That took for them to become the best of friends.
And since then it's been a journey of lots of sleepovers,
lots of music concerts, lots of dance parties. They've now
started going to h a place called skill shut the community.
(03:44):
It's a group where they learn life and employability skills.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So their circle has grown.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
UH.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
They have a social life which would rival ours.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And we realized that this is.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Something which is very rare in the disability community, and
also that everybody doesn't have a Viva in their life
who says you should meet so and so and so.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
We had been thinking about this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We started with the idea of a Facebook group and
then figured that we should move to an app because
it's much more accessible to people. Most people have a
smartphone these days, and that is how the idea of
buddy up was born.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, wonderful. And you know, since I've just finished your boat,
I feel like I know we so well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
When you say that, you know, I'm like, oh, he
likes baiting and he went for a concert. I'm like, oh,
what about the loud noise, But some noise, you know,
some loud noises he enjoys.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, yes he does, he does.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
He's okay with with loud mega watts of music blaring
in his ears, but he cannot take the sound of
balloons popping or any dog barking. So when he goes
to Mihans's house, he makes sure he carries his headphones
because mehns dog barks a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So take that, yeah, yeah dog, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Tell me, Monsia, how has it been for you I mean,
you know, getting to you know, getting the boys to
meet them, becoming friends, and then starting the app.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah. So just Mihan is exactly just a couple of
months older than we, They're exactly the same age. He
was diagnosed at births was quite a shock for us.
Had no understanding of Down syndrome. Again, it was exactly
that same, you know, the same kind of feelings that
most parents with a sudden diagnosis go through. But I
(05:30):
think we pretty quickly got over it and figured, Okay,
we need to do what we can to just give,
you know, give him the best life possible. I uh,
as a parent, you know, always felt like it was.
While of course there was a focus on therapy and
(05:51):
speech therapy, occupational therapy, physiotherapy, all of that, I as
a parent, very consciously from a very young age, UH
really felt that socialization with all kinds of people was
very very important. So I remember even when Mehann was
at school, he went to a mainstream school where because
(06:13):
of his uh, you know, speech lacking clarity, sometimes he
would kind of not the other kids may not understand him.
Sometimes group conversations were too quick, so I remember literally
trying to make those you know, individual connections with a
lot of kids at school so that they would get
that one on one time. So for me, a big
(06:35):
focus was friendship and socialization was a big focus for
me as a parent because I felt that was really important.
Sometimes I would find a lot of other parents in
the similar situation as me, spending all that time just
you know, therapy after therapy after therapy, and then just
there would be no time for like play dates and
(06:55):
time in the you know park with other kids. So
I remember, from a very young age really that was
my focus. But as my son grew older, his classmates
were all going to move on to college university and
he was going to lose this cohort that he kind
of had grown up with. And I was anticipating this
time when he would suddenly find this sudden void in
(07:18):
his life and for a very social kid like me,
and that would have been really hard to to stomach.
So I actively when he was got to the teenage years,
I started actively looking for friends for him. So I
would I would I literally literally remember putting out posts
on Facebook, random Facebook you know groups and does anybody
(07:39):
have a you know child who's this age.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
But then I felt, you know, it needed to be uh,
you know, I needed to sort of do this a
little more systematically. So I reached out to Veba as
the go Pika said, and I said, you know, Viba,
can you please, you know, give me all the young
people in his age group, and I'm you know, let
me get in touch with their parents and I will
try to introduce me Hunt to them. So just I
(08:06):
was thinking that, you know, long term a uh, you know,
he would need those long term relationships. Plus I also
felt like with uh with as kids. Kids are fine
with other kids, but as adults, you need to have
some very you know, solid shared experiences to build a
long term and very sustainable relationship. It's not like the
(08:30):
kind of you know, friends who will meet you once
in a while and then sort of go on with
their own lives. This was going to be a friend.
I was looking for a friendship which was going to
be based on both of them coming to the table
with the same amount of desire for this friendship as
each other. So that's the kind of genuine friendship that
I was looking for. And therefore I started looking within
(08:53):
the disability community because that's where I felt like his
biggest chance of finding such a relationship would be based
on all of these things that I mentioned earlier. So
Vebba introduced arts and the rest is history. The two
of them just clicked. They you know, despite being very
very different personalities, leaders, very quiet, me Hunt talks non stop,
(09:15):
they somehow found a happy medium. They managed to entertain
each other. They do silly stuff and they do a
lot of stuff together. They like doing activities, they like
playing board games, they like you know, working out, they
do fitness stuff together, they like dancing, so you know,
they find lots of common grounds where they can spend
(09:38):
endless amounts of time with each other, and you know,
they've both learned from each other. In fact, what was
really fantastic was that I was, you know, initially like
being a parent of someone with down syndrome. I would
look in the down syndrome community, go pick up, possibly
looked in the autism community. But somehow, you know, this
cross disability friendship has been quite amazing because they actually
(10:00):
bring different things to the table. So Mihan, for example,
is very social. So if he kind of goes out
and he'll make all he'll initiate all the social plans
he'll be the worst for saying, oh we can coming out,
what should we do? And he will plan all of
this stuff. I remember them going on a camp together
and I said, yeah, now we're going to like he's
pretty bad with fine motor skills. And I said me,
(10:20):
and now are we going to like h zip up
this wind cheater? And he said, we will.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Do it sor like.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
So then you know, uh, and Mihan, you know, it's
a little more nervous about you know, say, crossing the
road for example, and he sees we do it and
we travel by himself, so now he feels very motivated
and inspired to follow in you know, we use footsteps
and we likewise, probably I think has become way more
(10:47):
talkative than what he used to be when I first
met him. I remember he used to used to come
and he used to sort of be smiling and uh,
you know, passively participating. But now from the room we
can hear raucous laughter and I don't know what they're
talking about, but they're certainly having like a two way conversation.
They found their you know, happy medium. So yeah, I
(11:07):
think that's really the the you know, when we realize
how powerful their friendship was We just felt like, you know,
this is such an important thing for people, anybody to have,
you know, any person who's feeling isolated, Why should they
feel this way, right, I mean, but how do you
find those friends? It's not easy to just locate somebody
(11:30):
who will have these shared experiences. And we realized that
there was While so many areas in the disability space
have been focused on, like therapy and medical services and
even jobs, the social space really that was nothing. So
we just felt like this was something that was missing,
and we felt it would be We felt it would
be very a powerful thing for people to have another
(11:54):
or a couple of friends in their life just for
their own well being. I think, you know, people focus
on therapy for well being, but friendship is the best therapy, right,
I mean, you have somebody to talk to, somebody to
spend time with that can be therapy in a way.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So yeah, yeah, and what you said, you know they're
coming to the table with the same needs, right, Yes, absolutely,
And we all have that friend you know that you know,
he gets us out of the house like you're feeling lazy,
but says no, I'm making a plan and let's go.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Here with everybody, you know absolutely, you said that you
know that across you know, challenges that you know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Out of my question was also that you know.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Initially that uh that we has autism and Maha down syndrome,
so you know, uh, you know, does that matter.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Really doesn't I've go pick I will just tell.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You for the longest time, rather, they didn't even know
that the other one had a disability.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You look like you remember.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think it was Nihan who asked, right, I mean
Nan asked Mona that why does we.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Uh talk so little or something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I we hadn't even asked me anything about Mihan and
until I had to tell him because spoken to him.
So I said, I'd better talk to me. Uh So
I said, you know, I mean Mehana has a physician
for dancing robs. It was like, okay, another friend who yeah,
who who types out what she wants to say? And
(13:22):
that is something and they're they're totally accepting.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It makes zero difference to them. They just put on
the music and dance and then heads probably don't absolutely
and they don't care.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, yeah, they're they're very sort of non judgmental, you know,
happy to uh you know, just you know, be in
each other's company, and really that's really what's important to them.
They're not competitive or judge, you know, we'd go picka
(13:55):
you know, talks about how they both ran the ten
kilometers at the marathon together and we is like almost
you know, miles ahead of me. Hand Mihan is a
very slow runner. But it's not like we Mihn will
ever think it is so fast or or or Mihan
(14:16):
does something that we saying of how come he did it?
There's just it's just really lovely and you know, they're
just there for each other. It's very sweet. And they
go to a boot camp together where they help out
their exercise coach runs a children's boot camp and some
of the you know kids at the boot camp, well
(14:39):
they're quite young and they don't understand, you know, and
they'll kind of tickle beat and Mihan will get you know,
very protective and he'll you know, make sure that they
don't because he knows that we doesn't like this. Or
if we come to house, Mihn will run to the
room and bring his headphones so that we can quickly
put on the headphones before our dog, who's got this
very loud bark will start bothering need So it's very
(15:02):
sweet and very sweet.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
How they really kind of very uncomplicated. You know. I
think our neurotypical relationships have so.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Many layers and are so nuanced and are so complicated
in a way that when you look at their.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Friendship, it's it's just so sweet.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You know, there's no there's no like Manicia said, there's
no competition.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
There's no jealousy, there's no eye want to be where
he is, there's nothing like that. It's just what it is.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Actually, and it's natural, right because for adults like us
on neurotypical people, you'll have a list like listen, I'm
coming to your house, please take care of these things.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But then for them it just comes naturally to meet
the person halfway you're coming, so you just step up,
you know. Mhm Yeah. Really nice something to learn to uncomplicate. Yeah, true. Yeah.
So uh, you know, like I know, we has a twin,
guy three right, has.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
A sibling two years younger than also a sister, so
they both have sisters, neurotypical sisters. Okay, yeah, and yeah,
part of in fact our body, my body was that
you know, as they grow older, I could just pack
them off and send them to play they play dates together,
but as they grow older, that doesn't happen anymore, right,
I mean, so I would have to definitely be now
(16:27):
you know, I could just have me hunt piggyback on
Mira's social plans or versa. They had to now have
their own individual group people that they would they.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Both read their space.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that for both of us, go
pikani both. It was a it was a concern that
you know, as they grew older, then neurotypical sibling was
going to go out, have friends, go to coffee, go
to movies, go to like parties, go here there, and
they would just think, like why am I not having
these experiences?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I mean like what's wrong with me? Kind of and
for me, you know, because they're twins. When Guy three,
my daughter was going to go to college. Before she
went to college, I would have sleepless nights wondering how
he is.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You know, they've been together since the womb. What are
they going to do? What is he going to do
without her? Because she was literally his role model. He
would look to her.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And say, Okay, she's acting like this, she's behaving like this,
I have to base my behavior on what she does.
And I was so scared. I was it was it
was a real worry for me. Ironically, my daughter goes
to Ashoka University, which is in Sony Path, which is
the middle of Haryana, and she was talking to me
one day and she said, oh, what's the plan for
(17:46):
the weekend? And I said, oh, your brother's been going
for a movie tonight, tomorrow's out for lunch, and he's
got a concert and they after tomorrow there's a party.
And she just said she started laughing and she said,
I'm sitting here in the middle of Haryana. I'm not
going anywhere, and he's got these social plans. I can't
believe it. I mean, she was thrilled to bits. But
(18:08):
it was almost like, look at this, Look how the
tables have turned, and that's such a wonderful thing and
such an uh you know, it's it's very very rare.
I mean I remember when when we was younger.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Especially for people who are autistic, you know, who are
not like I mean like Mihann is.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Hyper friendly and talks a lot, and you know, but
but people who are autistic are by nature what.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Would you would call socially awkward.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
They would not be able to find find social interaction
extremely extremely difficult. You know, it's one of the it's
a big, big challenge, and I would just wonder, what
is going to happen with him? How is he going
to be able to negotiate in the world. Hearing of
a group of friends and people who have discovered a
friend like this was stuff I used to dream off.
(19:02):
It was never in my wildest dreams did I think
that my son would be able to have this kind
of life. And I constantly keep touching wood that he does.
But that is why, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Because we looked and looked and looked.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Both Monisha and I looked individually for something like this,
like buddy up, and we just did not find it.
And that's that's why we felt that other people should
not have to struggle. Plus, it would be lovely if
our own kids had widened their circle. You know, we
were chatting with somebody yesterday and said, oh, these kids
meet up. Why don't you kind of chatting with a
(19:38):
mom and said, why don't you get your you know,
your child to come and join this gang? And she said, yeah,
I'd love to do that you know. So that's how
it happens, right, even with neurotypical people. You meet somebody
and you say, oh, why don't you know I've got
some friends coming over. Why don't you come over as
well and meet them? It's that's the way socialization happened.
(20:00):
That's your circles widen. And we wanted that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Why can't act kids have that as well?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It's just that, you know, sometimes what happens very organically
for typical perse people just does not happen as organically
for people with disabilities, just because sometimes spaces are not
accessible or uh, the situation is not conducive, or and
(20:28):
just the numbers are smaller, right, I mean, neurotypical populations
are much larger than neurodivers.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Also, coming across people like you meet people.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
You you you just know who you know, right, You'll
have your small Exactly, how do you go beyond your
circle unless there is a platform with other people who
you may not have met, uh naturally just through your
word of mouth? How how do you meet those people
without a platform like this? So that was the idea
for the platform that could be somebody in my neighborhood
(21:01):
that I had no idea about but you know, signed
onto the platform and I discovered that they were living
you know, yeah, not too far away. So that was
really the idea for making an app like this.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, it's a wonderful And rather, there's so much social stigma,
you know about disability still in our country, you know,
I mean, Monsha and I might be shouting from the
rooftops being very proud and proclaiming that this is who
our boys are, but there's still so much social stigma,
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And there are people who will still prefer.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Not to take their children out. And so then where
did these children go and how do they they learn
to interact with other people? So that becomes a big issue.
And I think, like Manisha said that when somebody has
a lived experience of a condition, there is.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So much that that's so much in common and that
that makes it so much easier to be able to relate. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know another thing, Mansha, what you said that you
know your child went to a regular school. Yeah, so
I was just curious that, you know, I mean, didn't
you make friends there?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That means it's difficult, right, so.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
You know he did, he did, and he still has
like he still has friends from that school.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm just asking because you know, you read so much
on Facebook and social media that you know my son
was not invited for a birthday party or he was
left of some game.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
You know, Yeah, we have lucky in my my particular situation,
we were really lucky. I think it was maybe uh
uh we do hear those stories, of course. In my case,
I think it was a function of the particular school
that it has a very inclusive philosophy, So that feeling
of inclusiveness was uh fostered very on early on in
(22:41):
the other kids. So all of that was there, and
he still had he's still connected with some of his school.
But you know the fact is that if the other kid,
his other very close friend from bs is now goes
to law school in another city, now Mian's trajectory is
different from that other kid. He's your friends. You may
have kinds of friends who's going to be your every
(23:01):
day friend.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I guess those kids have you know, moved on
from putting on the music and dancing exactly, yeah, just
having fun, simple tal correct, So those experiences, then uh,
your the chance of you having that friend who is
going to be your friend, who is going to be
available to you every day through the week or through
(23:25):
the month, not the friend that you meet when they
have holidays or when they.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Those are also great. I mean, I'm saying one should
have all kinds of friends across, but who is going
to be that person who will you can call, you know,
who will show up your doorstep, and you know that
is most likely to happen in within the with the
community of people with shared.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Experience, with equivalent enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And you know, through this whole process, I mean, go
Pika and I realized that one is Mihan and we
having that, you know, life changing for them, but we
also have life changing for us because morerow of like
I suddenly have to travel or do something, I know
I can just say, hey, you know, can you just
can men come over? Or likewise, you know, we can
(24:19):
we come and stay over for a few days. Like
we've just become each other's support systems. And I think
caregivers also could really do with having those caregiver relationships
in their life. And the app can be accessed by
people with disability, but can also be accessed by caregivers,
so caregivers can find out the caregivers as well.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
On the app. Yeah, that's a huge support network that
you You know, sometimes what happens.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Is that you you're a newly diagnosed parent and you
don't you know the news has been told to you,
and you're so confused and lost.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You don't know what your I will look like, you
don't know how things will pan out. And you can
connect with somebody not necessarily for your child, but for
yourself and you know, so you connect with the parent
of a twenty year old or a thirty year old
and say, what's my life going to look like? Where
did you go? Did your child go to school? Did
this happen like? How did you manage? How did you
(25:22):
deal with your extended family? What did you say to
your friends?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Are think there are these questions which what parents think
of as stupid questions, you know, because you go to
see the therapist for one hour a week and you
don't really want to ask the.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Therapist, or maybe the therapist doesn't have the answer to
those questions. So only another parent can answer those questions.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And it's great to have that connection with somebody who's
walked that path before, gone through the journey and will
tell you that you know what it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Your book also goes along way in that because it's
very honest, that's what I You know, you've written about
all your fears and going through the five stages of
brief literally you know, denial, anger, bargaining, finally acceptance and uh,
you know, breaking down and you know, having meltdowns yourself
and trying to deal with the diagnosis. So it's very honest, really,
(26:15):
And I guess, uh, and now you said that you
just saw your boy as somebody you know who's I mean,
you're afraid for him, and now you see him as
a fully functioning person and he's fun.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And you see all his great sides. Right, So that's
the journey, and I'm sure it will help other mothers.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, that's the idea, you know. The idea is that
the more we go out there and the more we
can kind of get people to connect. I think for
me personally, we had had this super.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Supportive school structure. I did not have that.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
We did not have that, and so for us it
was a bit of a struggle because in terms of pooling, uh,
it was difficult, you know, finding that right fit, finding
the right school, even within the right school, finding the
social setup and the friends for him was really really hard.
So we did not have that kind of you know,
(27:12):
super supportive, super inclusive setup. Uh And so I really
feel that if somebody can benefit from this by not
having to go through that, even one person, I'll be happy,
you know, if they can find somebody in their neighborhood
who they or or like, somebody who they you know,
who they can connect with in whatever way.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
It would really be.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Fat if you have somebody who can who used chat
with online, even if they don't do at the end
of the day, connect with someone who understands you, and
you can if you find that person, you can even
have an online conversation with. Why not, you know, have
a very deep human connection is very caught to all
(27:55):
of us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Because you as a family, you're struggling, right, so when
you reach somebody outside your family, you gether objectivity and
it's easier exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And the thing is that you know, and with an
app again like this, uh mean, and we were lucky
that they clicked, right, I mean, it clicked. So you
need to like anybody else. It's not like you just
put two people with disabilities together and they're going to
like just it's going to need to sometimes just need
a lot of people to find. Some people may fulfill
(28:25):
some needs, some people may fulfill other needs you may have.
You can, you know, just widen your circle with different
people that you connect with on different things. You know,
somebody may be someone that you play a spot with,
or you may pay you know, a board game with,
and somebody else maybe someone that you do something.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Else with or exactly all of all all of us exactly,
So you just want, yeah, choices. And there are so
many young people on the app as well. We we've
seen that our maximum age group is twenty to thirty,
you know, so they all want a circle of friends.
(29:07):
They they want people to hang out with. They really
really want that to make those connections because it can
be very lonely. And so that's why it's for all ages.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
And I can see that.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You know, you're doing workshops, offline workshops, you're meeting people, schools,
et cetera. You know you've been visiting schools, et cetera
to you know, spread the world and I guess warm connections.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So how has it, How has that been? How are
you spreading the world? Really? I think just.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Meeting as many organizations as possible talking about the app,
talking about people's you know, have concerns about you know, safety, security,
like so and who is this app? Who has made
this app? Like if somebody just gets a random forward
in their WhatsApp, they're not going to have necessarily trusted.
(29:58):
But if they understand the intent behind, you know, what
the app was intended to do, and they maybe put
a face to who created it, they would understand that,
you know, it's not just some random thing that has
just popped up out of nowhere. It's created by parents
who felt a need and had a lived experience and
(30:21):
you know, wanted to solve for it. So I think
that just goes a long way in reassuring people. And
I think just people, you know, you know, the moment
you get something in your something or like a forward,
you sometimes want to know more that you may not
necessarily get by reading about it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
So I think just art talking about it just helps. Also,
Bill starts, because there's so many apps, these facts.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Don't Unlike Monsha was talking about intention, I think that
when people see that we have built.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
This app for the community.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
We have worked with the community, various disability communities to
be able to test the accessibility, to make sure that
it's safe to see what works for Because we've had
focused groups who we've called and we've spoken to about it, we've.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Tested the app.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
You know, before the app was even developed, we had
a group saying is this something that's going to work?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Do you think it's important to have this?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
And then go on to say that, okay, is is
this something which you know, when we had the actual
appt getting them to test it. What do you think
about the look and feel? What do you think about
the way it works? Does it work for you? I
think when people see all that and they recognize that ultimately,
Monisha and I are two moms who are trying to
(31:44):
make this work. It's been amazing in terms of the response.
There are people who will just come and want to
help us with so many things. There are people who
have offered of their services. That people parents writing and
saying we want to help you, Please tell us how
we can help you.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
You know, spread.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Read the word and it's surely been very very positive
our aim. Now, of course, it's it's a numbers game
with the app.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
The more people on it, the more.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Chances of a connection happening, and so what our aim
right now is to make sure that the app gets
out there and that the people who it's meant for
get on the app and build those connections.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, I saw there's a huge there's a long drop
down list.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
There's fragile like syndrome that's to red, there's even LGBTQ I.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
There's everything there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So tell me when you held these focus groups, what
came out of it that any learnings that you could
share and hands out?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, so many, so many. I think the books really
helped us.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Uh, you know, so many things got added, like we
just put on okay, what do we think of possible interest?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But you know, think LGBTQ. That was a big one suggestion.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Somebody said, you know, people in the LGBTQ and who
are lg we have from that community and have a disability,
have no real way of meeting each other, so can
we add that as an interest. So that really came
out of one of the suggestions from the from we.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Have the ability to block users.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Uh, so you know we said, okay, we'll do this
block thing so that if somebody is irritating someone, you
can block them. But then we had somebody who's neurodivergent
who said, you know, sometimes in a bit of anger, I.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Block somebody, but then I feel bad and I want
to unblock them. So we said, okay, let's build in
and unblock, you know, so we we put that that
bit in and we can't. We are willing to constantly
take feedback. And we've got somebody.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Who who's visually impaired who helped us with the whole
accessibility in terms of the screen reader and the.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Voice recognition kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
So we we worked on that with him, and he
continues to help us and says, Okay, this is how
this should read, this is what is right, this is
what is wrong, this is how the visually impaired community
will perceive it. So constantly it's been such a such
a learning for us. I think our own now neuroplasticity
has been increased tremendously in the building of this app.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, it's been really a very steep learning curve for us,
considering we have no zero tech background. We've just learned
new terminology. We've become conversant with high fancy sounding tech
words that we had no idea about before we started
on this journey. But it's been fun. And like anybody
(34:40):
who understands apps will tell you an app, just putting
it out there is only the first step. It's like
a constant work in progress. So you put out the app.
So now you've got it out, but then what are
people saying? Are they saying that this is working? What
more would they like to see on it? So an
app is some think, it's like a thing that keeps
(35:01):
evolving based off what the people that are using it
are wanting from it. So if someone is saying that, okay,
if this is great, but we really feel like this
feature needs to be there, then you know, we listen
to that. Obviously, slowly we'll get that it can't all
happen at once, but yes, we make a list of
all the things that we feel like we'll get to
at some point, and we keep working towards that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
What are some other features that you know that are
that you're considering adding?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
You know, I think right now it's just a thing
where people are meeting each other profile something, but peoples
a couple of different things that have been thrown up,
and we're like, maybe you know, like a community or
noticeboard where you can share things pieces of information. So
(35:52):
that's there's something a little more dynamic happening on the chat.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Some people have said, go pick anything else, like what.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
A we did.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
One of the things that we want to add work,
which we're working on and we want to add at
some point of time, is that for a lot of
people with disabilities, they say hi, how are you, and
then they get stuck, you know what, how to take
the conversation further, So to just create something which gives
them prompts to help them, you know, kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Suggestions to see how to take it further.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah, and of course accessibility, because accessibility something that is
you can always do it better. We couldn't start. I
mean somebody also told us that if you try to
perfect everything, you will not get off the ground.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
From many people time to do and then keep you know, keep.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Improving as you go along. But so accessibility right now
is uh, you know, is there. The accessibility features are there,
but we could always do something more. So yeah, you know,
next the next phase we could add more accessibility feature.
So that's definitely one of the things. So tell me
how does it work?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Like you go on the app, I just downloaded it
and then it asked you to log in and then
you know, I saw that there are loads of interests,
et cetera that you can sign upon, and then how
does it work?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
How do you connect? And then to meet up?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
What happens so the caregiver logs on, logs on and
signs up for their child.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
So the child's profile is made. If the child is.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Under eighteen, then you are I mean you will click
caregiver account account belongs to a clare giver.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
When you start off with you're asked whether the account
belongs to a caregiver. You fill in your.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Child's information, your child's disability, interests, gender, everything else, and
then what happens is that the algorithm based on your
profile throws up some suggestions for you. So you can
look at those and body up with them, or you
can do a search which is on five criteria.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Which is the age, there's a minimum and maximum age.
There is the distance from you.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
There is the disability, whether you're looking in a particular disability.
There is interests, so you want someone to match your
interests and gender. So a lot of girls' parents especially
and also a lot of women who are on the
app might prefer to just make friends with other women
and so based on these five criteria, you can search
(38:33):
and then you go into the person's profiles. You've thrown
up a couple of profiles, or you know, a few
profiles come up. You go into each profile, read about them,
and if you feel you want to become friends with
that person, you buddy up with them.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
And then yeah, then once you body up with someone
and begin chatting in the app, so you can use
the chat feature to get to know somebody in app
without really sharing any personal details. So you can get
to find out a bit more about them and have
a lengthy chat and if you then feel like you
(39:15):
want to take the person seems trustworthy heart. There's one
more thing. There's like a video call feature in the
chat that you can do to do a quick verification.
Suppose you want to want to make sure that this
person who are chatting with it's a nameless, faceless person, right,
I mean you don't know whether they may say I'm
eighteen years old, but they may be much older or
(39:37):
maybe in gender. So you want to do a quick verification.
You can say, hey, can we get on a video call?
You can do a quick one minute verification to see
who that person is and then you can be reassured, okay,
they are actually who they say they are.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So do you have like a verification as well of
the profiles. We don't do our own verification.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
We leave for the person to kind of do a
video verification of whose okay, which is why we've had
that feature. Oh yeah, yeah, so there's.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
No catfishing happening, so they can just check.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, they can chat, they can just check now. And
in terms of our our you know, sign up process,
we do have like a two step verification, which means
they're kindly bots and you know, those fake accounts and
all our stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
We've all about very detailed safety guidelines which we have
outlined very clearly for me, you know, interactions online, should
the person decide to take it offline or you know,
meet in a public place. If it's a child, the
caregiver has to of course accompany them in case they're
the person so you have to be eighteen to sign
(40:46):
onto the air. But in case people feel that there
is somebody who's over the age of eighteen, but they
feel that they're vulnerable, they feel that they maybe take
an advantage of then recently very strongly recommend that a
responsible adult, whether it is a parent, caregiver, or sibling,
(41:08):
that that person signs onto the app and manages and
operates the app on behalf of the adult. So in
any case, if you're below eighteen, you can't sign up,
you can't for them.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
There's one more thing that I'll add is that you know,
if there is a parent who has a vulnerable adult
ward who would like to use the app, but maybe
they have an intellectual disability and the parents is worried
about you know that they're over the age of eighteen,
(41:44):
So technically, you know, they could use the app or
put sign on. The parent then can sign on from
their own phone and be an observer. We're using the
same log in details. So you could have the app
installed on the parent's phone through which they can kind
of observe. They wouldn't participate, obviously, they would.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Leave that for it's wonderful they could keep.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
An eye on the you know what's going on, so
that nothing what is some is going on.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I guess it's difficult to just let go of the
child and let them beyond.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
Their own because some cases that maybe there may be
some genuine requirement for such a such a Now, of
course arrangement for a lot of people with disabilities, they
would would not They would be horrified at the thought
of this uh yeah, err and being on it and
(42:42):
which case, And there would be no reason for it
to you know, necessary because they're you know, able to
take those calls on their own and they don't would
not need such a thing. But there are certain populations
that could benefit from an arrangement like this.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, And I think the biggest thing, like for me,
what I can see is that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Of course like adult persons of disability, they can connect
right on their own, but also parents like you know,
I remember reading in book again that you know, and
you were very social as a couple, you and your husband,
but after the diagnosis, it was difficult for you to
even just vote for a party, right, So I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Know that was your case as well. But for this
uh and your son is very social, you said, yeah, yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
You know in this case, through your app, people can
make these social connections and as you said, a totally yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
That I have met so many young like of younger kids.
You know, sometimes somebody will refer to as a friend,
via would refer to refer to us younger, you know,
I mean not younger, but parents who are you know,
knew our parents in this whole down syndrome space to us,
(43:55):
and we've heard just such heartbreaking stories about how the
relatives have I don't want to be friends with them.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
The cousins are not wanting to, they don't want the building,
kids don't want want to play with their kids.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
They've kind of almost been shunned.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
So this is I mean, we, as I said earlier,
I said, we are very privileged. We come from families
where you know, they're luckily for us, are very open minded,
very accepting and not just accepting but embracing of.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Our boys.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It's not the case for everybody.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So sometimes you may need.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
To find those social connects, uh, you know, beyond who
you already know. If they've they've been often enough to
to shun you, then you you definitely need to go
elsewhere to find that right is very important.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
What often happens is with kids, specifically our kids on
the spectrum, kids of autistic kids, is because some.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Of them may have each issues in terms of they
may not be speaking yet, or they may be non speaking.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
They again the communication becomes difficult and so the family
very often blames the parents, particularly the mother.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
It becomes a very socially isolating condition. And you know,
there is a I feel that the stigma associated with it.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Is, like what I said, very very high.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
There's a lot of social stigma and there are also
I think because we live in India, which is a
country with high superstition and you know, lots of belief
of on on religion, and I mean, you know, living
in a metro is a very different situation, but when
you go into other parts of the country, Uh, there
(45:55):
are so many other reasons.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Attributed to the disability. Uh, and that makes it tougher
for parents.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
And so we're hoping that something like this, when you
reach out to another parent of a child who has
a disability, it's almost like we found somebody who you
can relate to on so many levels.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
And so we're hoping that those connections as well.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
And I was also you know, I was talking about
being you know, having very fantastic family support and very wonderful,
wonderful friends and family that fully embraced, you know, our
child when he was when when we first got the diagnosis,
(46:36):
they said, you know, there was no.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Issue on that fant.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
But yet I remember, for me personally, the biggest time
that I actually could sort of breathe easy was after
meeting a parent of an older uh you know, like
maybe Mihan was just a couple of months old, and
I met her twelve or thirteen year old child with
(47:02):
down syndrome who was leading a lovely life, and I
spoke to her mom, who was also very positive, and
then I could literally breathe easy after speaking to her. So,
no matter what anybody self said that single you know,
those few meetings I think were the ones that really
(47:23):
kind of changed my the way I felt about how
life was going to be, just just seeing that you know,
that it was going to be okay, and here were
these families who seem to be fine, and I just
felt like, then, I'm glad that we as parents have
been able to be that parent for other people. You know.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Of course, just one thing I want to ask you
know that you know, for I mean, we're talking about
creating a space for neurodivergent individuals and their parents, but
you know all about neurotypical people, we also have to
step up, right because you know, you've spoken about stemming.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
That was a new order.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It came across that you know self soothing, you know
movements of self soothe. So can you explain that a bit.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
You know doming so stimming is basically something which so
I should tell you that we all stim. Okay, so
when we are when we are nervous, we kind of
wring our hands like this.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Uh, when we or we pace up and down.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
When we're very excited, we might just clap our hands
or kind of like you know, squeeze our faste like this,
or jump up and down in excitement. The thing is
that we do it in ways which might be considered
more socially appropriate in a sense. Also, we reach that
stage of from extreme high or anxiety to a state
(48:40):
of equilibrium relatively quickly. For somebody who has any kind
of neurodivergent condition, they might that there might be a
bigger gap between a high a state of hyper arousal
or a higher arousal and that state of equilibrium, and
so they might take a little longer or they might
(49:01):
need more to get there. So this could be when
they are excited, it could be when they are very anxious.
Anxiety is often the case.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
It could be when they're very happy. It could be
when they don't know what to do and communicate. So
stimming is a response. It's sensory stimulation to any kind
of response. So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Of what Wiel does.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Okay, when he hears a dog barking and he's become
much easier, he would squeeze his hands and grind his
teeth and rock back and forth. Now he just kind
of presses his hands together. There are children who will
because for him, that is his response.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
There are other children, so you want to again.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Responses can be avoidance responses and seeking responses. Sorry, I'm
trying to squeeze a lot of otie into this, but
I'll try and explain it as simply as possible.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
So some children and some people might seek.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Pressure, in which case you will find fifteen, sixteen, seventeen
year olds who will come and hug other people, okay,
and that if they've not been taught that, okay, this
is not what you do.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
You can seek the response in other ways.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Not necessarily because they're feeling great love, but because they
want that pressure of that that, you know, being pressed
against somebody. There are some people who will shriek if
a particular shirt is put on them. So you will
remember in the book you I have talked about the tilt.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, right, and then you have them all away.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
There are people who have any kind of responses who like,
we're still cannot stand balloons popping and dogs barking. He
still cannot stand that he gets the payout.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Example was very nice, you know, because you didn't realize
that he's scared because and.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It goes over his head he can't see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
The minute I remember very clearly, I took all that
whole pile of T shirts and I literally gave them
away because I said I do not want any T
shirts in the house, because I was so and because
I did not understand, I was so impatient with him,
and I was beating myself up about this, you know.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
So I just did not want any T shirts in
the house after that.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
But the thing is that, again, like autism or any
other kind of neurodiversity condition, is a spectrum, and so
how one individual reacts to something may be very very
different from how other people react with So, for example,
you might find some kids who go and you know,
there's a gunpati pandal or a birthday party or something happening,
(51:42):
and there's a speaker and there's boeing music. You'll find
one child sitting at one corner right away putting the
hands on their ears because even so far away the music.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Is too much.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
And you'll find one child going on touching that speaker
because they like the vibration of it. So it's all
a spectrum. But stimming is basically something which people read.
It's simple ways to reach a state of equilibrium and
responsing to respond to sensory input.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
You want to add to that, And I just would
like to know how one should respond when you see that,
you know, because of course you don't look at it.
Oh that's odd behavior, you know, so you know you
don't shun that behavior or laugh at it, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
So how should somebody with neurotypical react. I I think.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
It's somebody neurotypical reacting to a steam. So stim does
look by by typical standards, It.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Does for god right.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
And the first thing to recognize is that the child
is not making the noise or jumping up and down
or shrieking or whatever to make because.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
They're they're having a tantrum.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
That that you know that that the parent is being
abat parent, because typically what would happen is that a
neurotypical person would look and the first reaction would be
what a brat? That's the first thing that would be, like,
why is this child being such a brat? Why is
the parent not.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Able to control the child?
Speaker 3 (53:17):
And so to maybe just give the person the benefit
of the doubt and also to give them some space
because you know, generally what happens is if somebody is
shreeking like this or something, people might crowd around and say,
what's happening to your child?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Don't do this.
Speaker 3 (53:32):
We are very open with our suggestions and say give
the child a chocolate, or take the child outside, and
why do you bring your child to places like this?
Speaker 1 (53:39):
So there are lots of comments which pass. Just don't
do that.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
You could always ask somebody if they need help. If
they do, they will ask you if they or you
could just or they say no, just give me some time,
and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
But again that child is in When when there is
some sort of.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Extreme reaction and a child is having a meltdown or
they're not doing it for.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
Fun, yeah them just awareness which just go a long way.
People react because they're just they don't know any better, right,
They just like, you know, if someone's behaving in a
way that.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Is inappropriate crassication, they may think.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Oh that there's intent on that on the part of
the person that is behaving in that way, and the
thought or the the idea that this could just be
something that this person is unable to control would would
not even have crossed their minds, right, Which is why
it's so important this kind of educating of young kids
(54:46):
from a very early age to understand that there are
all ways of all kinds of ways of being, and
to then understand that somebody is not coming at it
from a place of you know, being disrupted or they're
really unable to do anything about this behavior, and to
just have that acceptance and that empathy for the person
(55:06):
that person is struggling to with something and therefore doing this.
I think that that building of empathy needs to happen
very early on in populations to then as you grow older,
you maybe will not, like bat an eyelid, you know,
you're not staying you know, make that person or that
family more uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Having said that, there's also.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
You know, a balance between if that person stimming is
really bothering me and by making me very anxious, then
you know, you have every right to kind of remove
yourself from the situation. I think, balance the needs of
everybody in this equation, but just do it respectfully, do
it kindly. And I think, you know, I think that
(55:49):
it's really I think there's just considering that it is.
Now we just know so much more about these things.
I think, you know, education needs to happen from a
much younger age to make people aware of, uh, these
types of situations and just be kinder to the people
that are dealing with some of these things.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
And I think we need more inclusive spaces, you know,
where you're exposed to such behavior, because often you know,
you never see it, so when you see it, you feel, oh,
there's something, what's wrong with that person. That person's being
a brad or you know, yeah, out of control or something.
Speaker 4 (56:25):
My own son, and as I said, in a main
he was in a regular kind of a mainstream classroom
and I would have, you know, kids come up to
me and said he would have this sort of thing
like when he was young, he would do aangangangangang. He
would like, do you know, make these noises?
Speaker 1 (56:41):
And some uh.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
Kids would come and ask me from a very young age,
and you know, I said, I would explain it to
him them in whatever language I found appropriate for that
age group of that stage, or the school teachers would have,
you know, appropriate language to explain these things. And those
kids then now then after that, when they have a
reason and they understand it, they don't even bat an eyelid,
you know, they just have Okay, that's that's him and
(57:06):
that's how he operates. And you know, there's just not a.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, and what you said about weird and Mihan's friendship,
they don't even question it, right, It's just how the
other person is work. Yeah, you know that's the highest
level of empathy really and friendship. Yeah, and friendship.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Would you like to add.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
Anything anything else? Have you not covered everything?
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Just?
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Buddy up is available in English and Hindi, both languages.
People can download it for free, and uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
That they should just start register, log on and you know,
just just start finding connections for themselves. Great. Thank you
so much for joining and all the best for buddy up.
Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you
Hi, Welcome to Swishing Mindsets.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is a Radha and today we are speaking Toka
Kapol and Monicia Kandi, both moms of neurodivergent young people.
Weir Kapol and Mihandhal. They have launched buddy Up, a
friendship app for people with disabilities and their caregivers. While
is a neuro diversity consultant and an author who also
wrote the book Beyond the Blue, Love Life and Autism
(00:24):
on her parenting experience. Monsha formally ran an embroidery export
company and volunteers at the OME Parent Resource Center. Both
are advocates of diversity and inclusion. So Hi Monsha Anda,
Hi Hi Hi. So uh let's start with ba, I've
just since I've just finished reading your book. Would you
(00:45):
like it do and like to do an introduction for
yourself and and buddy up there?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Sure? Sure? So I think I am sometimes known as Ve's.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Mom, so I actually am Mumbai based. I started out
as a journalist, didn't know much about autism, and I
think we introduced to our entire family to that word
and the condition and what it's like to live with it.
(01:20):
It's been a journey of about sixteen years since he
was diagnosed, and.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Many ups, many downs, a lot more ups, I would
have to say. And I worked for ten years.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
At MEI Child Development Center, which is the place where
we was diagnosed, because I felt a very strong sense
of the privilege that I had when I used to
take him there for therapy in terms of economic privilege,
social privilege, and I really felt that I needed to
give back in some way. When I quit to me
(01:56):
I decided to write this book because I've got a
journalistic background and writing was the thing that came most
easily to me. And at that time, I knew that
there was no book in India about any parents lived experience
of autism. There were lots of resources that I found
which were from the US, from the UK, from Australia,
(02:19):
but nothing had that specific Indian flavor to it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And I felt that it was time to write.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Something like this, and I was also at the point
in my journey when I could write about it. And
so Beyond the Blue happened. And around that time, I
think a little before that, our friend Munisha and my
common friend doctor Viva Krishna Mute, who runs UMID. She's
the founder of UMMED. She had been telling me for
a long time. She said, you know, we're should meet
(02:46):
Mihan and he should become friends with him.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And she had been Monisha had been looking for a friend.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
For Mihan, and so Weba had said that you should
meet Weir and somehow it just never happened. It took
us about a year and a half till we finally
got the boys to meet. The first time they met
was in Monisha's house and we said we should have
an activity because otherwise they won't know what to do
with themselves. And so they baked a chocolate cake while
Monsha and I sat and had teeth and.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I think it was that and maybe the next.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Meeting where they baked some really awful tasting but beautiful
looking rain book rainbow creps.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
That took for them to become the best of friends.
And since then it's been a journey of lots of sleepovers,
lots of music concerts, lots of dance parties. They've now
started going to h a place called skill shut the community.
(03:44):
It's a group where they learn life and employability skills.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So their circle has grown.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
UH.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
They have a social life which would rival ours.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And we realized that this is.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Something which is very rare in the disability community, and
also that everybody doesn't have a Viva in their life
who says you should meet so and so and so.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
We had been thinking about this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We started with the idea of a Facebook group and
then figured that we should move to an app because
it's much more accessible to people. Most people have a
smartphone these days, and that is how the idea of
buddy up was born.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, wonderful. And you know, since I've just finished your boat,
I feel like I know we so well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
When you say that, you know, I'm like, oh, he
likes baiting and he went for a concert. I'm like, oh,
what about the loud noise, But some noise, you know,
some loud noises he enjoys.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, yes he does, he does.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
He's okay with with loud mega watts of music blaring
in his ears, but he cannot take the sound of
balloons popping or any dog barking. So when he goes
to Mihans's house, he makes sure he carries his headphones
because mehns dog barks a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So take that, yeah, yeah dog, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Tell me, Monsia, how has it been for you I mean,
you know, getting to you know, getting the boys to
meet them, becoming friends, and then starting the app.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah. So just Mihan is exactly just a couple of
months older than we, They're exactly the same age. He
was diagnosed at births was quite a shock for us.
Had no understanding of Down syndrome. Again, it was exactly
that same, you know, the same kind of feelings that
most parents with a sudden diagnosis go through. But I
(05:30):
think we pretty quickly got over it and figured, Okay,
we need to do what we can to just give,
you know, give him the best life possible. I uh,
as a parent, you know, always felt like it was.
While of course there was a focus on therapy and
(05:51):
speech therapy, occupational therapy, physiotherapy, all of that, I as
a parent, very consciously from a very young age, UH
really felt that socialization with all kinds of people was
very very important. So I remember even when Mehann was
at school, he went to a mainstream school where because
(06:13):
of his uh, you know, speech lacking clarity, sometimes he
would kind of not the other kids may not understand him.
Sometimes group conversations were too quick, so I remember literally
trying to make those you know, individual connections with a
lot of kids at school so that they would get
that one on one time. So for me, a big
(06:35):
focus was friendship and socialization was a big focus for
me as a parent because I felt that was really important.
Sometimes I would find a lot of other parents in
the similar situation as me, spending all that time just
you know, therapy after therapy after therapy, and then just
there would be no time for like play dates and
(06:55):
time in the you know park with other kids. So
I remember, from a very young age really that was
my focus. But as my son grew older, his classmates
were all going to move on to college university and
he was going to lose this cohort that he kind
of had grown up with. And I was anticipating this
time when he would suddenly find this sudden void in
(07:18):
his life and for a very social kid like me,
and that would have been really hard to to stomach.
So I actively when he was got to the teenage years,
I started actively looking for friends for him. So I
would I would I literally literally remember putting out posts
on Facebook, random Facebook you know groups and does anybody
(07:39):
have a you know child who's this age.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
But then I felt, you know, it needed to be uh,
you know, I needed to sort of do this a
little more systematically. So I reached out to Veba as
the go Pika said, and I said, you know, Viba,
can you please, you know, give me all the young
people in his age group, and I'm you know, let
me get in touch with their parents and I will
try to introduce me Hunt to them. So just I
(08:06):
was thinking that, you know, long term a uh, you know,
he would need those long term relationships. Plus I also
felt like with uh with as kids. Kids are fine
with other kids, but as adults, you need to have
some very you know, solid shared experiences to build a
long term and very sustainable relationship. It's not like the
(08:30):
kind of you know, friends who will meet you once
in a while and then sort of go on with
their own lives. This was going to be a friend.
I was looking for a friendship which was going to
be based on both of them coming to the table
with the same amount of desire for this friendship as
each other. So that's the kind of genuine friendship that
I was looking for. And therefore I started looking within
(08:53):
the disability community because that's where I felt like his
biggest chance of finding such a relationship would be based
on all of these things that I mentioned earlier. So
Vebba introduced arts and the rest is history. The two
of them just clicked. They you know, despite being very
very different personalities, leaders, very quiet, me Hunt talks non stop,
(09:15):
they somehow found a happy medium. They managed to entertain
each other. They do silly stuff and they do a
lot of stuff together. They like doing activities, they like
playing board games, they like you know, working out, they
do fitness stuff together, they like dancing, so you know,
they find lots of common grounds where they can spend
(09:38):
endless amounts of time with each other, and you know,
they've both learned from each other. In fact, what was
really fantastic was that I was, you know, initially like
being a parent of someone with down syndrome. I would
look in the down syndrome community, go pick up, possibly
looked in the autism community. But somehow, you know, this
cross disability friendship has been quite amazing because they actually
(10:00):
bring different things to the table. So Mihan, for example,
is very social. So if he kind of goes out
and he'll make all he'll initiate all the social plans
he'll be the worst for saying, oh we can coming out,
what should we do? And he will plan all of
this stuff. I remember them going on a camp together
and I said, yeah, now we're going to like he's
pretty bad with fine motor skills. And I said me,
(10:20):
and now are we going to like h zip up
this wind cheater? And he said, we will.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Do it sor like.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
So then you know, uh, and Mihan, you know, it's
a little more nervous about you know, say, crossing the
road for example, and he sees we do it and
we travel by himself, so now he feels very motivated
and inspired to follow in you know, we use footsteps
and we likewise, probably I think has become way more
(10:47):
talkative than what he used to be when I first
met him. I remember he used to used to come
and he used to sort of be smiling and uh,
you know, passively participating. But now from the room we
can hear raucous laughter and I don't know what they're
talking about, but they're certainly having like a two way conversation.
They found their you know, happy medium. So yeah, I
(11:07):
think that's really the the you know, when we realize
how powerful their friendship was We just felt like, you know,
this is such an important thing for people, anybody to have,
you know, any person who's feeling isolated, Why should they
feel this way, right, I mean, but how do you
find those friends? It's not easy to just locate somebody
(11:30):
who will have these shared experiences. And we realized that
there was While so many areas in the disability space
have been focused on, like therapy and medical services and
even jobs, the social space really that was nothing. So
we just felt like this was something that was missing,
and we felt it would be We felt it would
be very a powerful thing for people to have another
(11:54):
or a couple of friends in their life just for
their own well being. I think, you know, people focus
on therapy for well being, but friendship is the best therapy, right,
I mean, you have somebody to talk to, somebody to
spend time with that can be therapy in a way.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So yeah, yeah, and what you said, you know they're
coming to the table with the same needs, right, Yes, absolutely,
And we all have that friend you know that you know,
he gets us out of the house like you're feeling lazy,
but says no, I'm making a plan and let's go.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Here with everybody, you know absolutely, you said that you
know that across you know, challenges that you know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Out of my question was also that you know.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Initially that uh that we has autism and Maha down syndrome,
so you know, uh, you know, does that matter.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Really doesn't I've go pick I will just tell.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You for the longest time, rather, they didn't even know
that the other one had a disability.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You look like you remember.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think it was Nihan who asked, right, I mean
Nan asked Mona that why does we.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Uh talk so little or something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I we hadn't even asked me anything about Mihan and
until I had to tell him because spoken to him.
So I said, I'd better talk to me. Uh So
I said, you know, I mean Mehana has a physician
for dancing robs. It was like, okay, another friend who yeah,
who who types out what she wants to say? And
(13:22):
that is something and they're they're totally accepting.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It makes zero difference to them. They just put on
the music and dance and then heads probably don't absolutely
and they don't care.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, yeah, they're they're very sort of non judgmental, you know,
happy to uh you know, just you know, be in
each other's company, and really that's really what's important to them.
They're not competitive or judge, you know, we'd go picka
(13:55):
you know, talks about how they both ran the ten
kilometers at the marathon together and we is like almost
you know, miles ahead of me. Hand Mihan is a
very slow runner. But it's not like we Mihn will
ever think it is so fast or or or Mihan
(14:16):
does something that we saying of how come he did it?
There's just it's just really lovely and you know, they're
just there for each other. It's very sweet. And they
go to a boot camp together where they help out
their exercise coach runs a children's boot camp and some
of the you know kids at the boot camp, well
(14:39):
they're quite young and they don't understand, you know, and
they'll kind of tickle beat and Mihan will get you know,
very protective and he'll you know, make sure that they
don't because he knows that we doesn't like this. Or
if we come to house, Mihn will run to the
room and bring his headphones so that we can quickly
put on the headphones before our dog, who's got this
very loud bark will start bothering need So it's very
(15:02):
sweet and very sweet.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
How they really kind of very uncomplicated. You know. I
think our neurotypical relationships have so.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Many layers and are so nuanced and are so complicated
in a way that when you look at their.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Friendship, it's it's just so sweet.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You know, there's no there's no like Manicia said, there's
no competition.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
There's no jealousy, there's no eye want to be where
he is, there's nothing like that. It's just what it is.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Actually, and it's natural, right because for adults like us
on neurotypical people, you'll have a list like listen, I'm
coming to your house, please take care of these things.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But then for them it just comes naturally to meet
the person halfway you're coming, so you just step up,
you know. Mhm Yeah. Really nice something to learn to uncomplicate. Yeah, true. Yeah.
So uh, you know, like I know, we has a twin,
guy three right, has.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
A sibling two years younger than also a sister, so
they both have sisters, neurotypical sisters. Okay, yeah, and yeah,
part of in fact our body, my body was that
you know, as they grow older, I could just pack
them off and send them to play they play dates together,
but as they grow older, that doesn't happen anymore, right,
I mean, so I would have to definitely be now
(16:27):
you know, I could just have me hunt piggyback on
Mira's social plans or versa. They had to now have
their own individual group people that they would they.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Both read their space.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that for both of us, go
pikani both. It was a it was a concern that
you know, as they grew older, then neurotypical sibling was
going to go out, have friends, go to coffee, go
to movies, go to like parties, go here there, and
they would just think, like why am I not having
these experiences?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I mean like what's wrong with me? Kind of and
for me, you know, because they're twins. When Guy three,
my daughter was going to go to college. Before she
went to college, I would have sleepless nights wondering how
he is.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You know, they've been together since the womb. What are
they going to do? What is he going to do
without her? Because she was literally his role model. He
would look to her.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And say, Okay, she's acting like this, she's behaving like this,
I have to base my behavior on what she does.
And I was so scared. I was it was it
was a real worry for me. Ironically, my daughter goes
to Ashoka University, which is in Sony Path, which is
the middle of Haryana, and she was talking to me
one day and she said, oh, what's the plan for
(17:46):
the weekend? And I said, oh, your brother's been going
for a movie tonight, tomorrow's out for lunch, and he's
got a concert and they after tomorrow there's a party.
And she just said she started laughing and she said,
I'm sitting here in the middle of Haryana. I'm not
going anywhere, and he's got these social plans. I can't
believe it. I mean, she was thrilled to bits. But
(18:08):
it was almost like, look at this, Look how the
tables have turned, and that's such a wonderful thing and
such an uh you know, it's it's very very rare.
I mean I remember when when we was younger.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Especially for people who are autistic, you know, who are
not like I mean like Mihann is.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Hyper friendly and talks a lot, and you know, but
but people who are autistic are by nature what.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Would you would call socially awkward.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
They would not be able to find find social interaction
extremely extremely difficult. You know, it's one of the it's
a big, big challenge, and I would just wonder, what
is going to happen with him? How is he going
to be able to negotiate in the world. Hearing of
a group of friends and people who have discovered a
friend like this was stuff I used to dream off.
(19:02):
It was never in my wildest dreams did I think
that my son would be able to have this kind
of life. And I constantly keep touching wood that he does.
But that is why, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Because we looked and looked and looked.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Both Monisha and I looked individually for something like this,
like buddy up, and we just did not find it.
And that's that's why we felt that other people should
not have to struggle. Plus, it would be lovely if
our own kids had widened their circle. You know, we
were chatting with somebody yesterday and said, oh, these kids
meet up. Why don't you kind of chatting with a
(19:38):
mom and said, why don't you get your you know,
your child to come and join this gang? And she said, yeah,
I'd love to do that you know. So that's how
it happens, right, even with neurotypical people. You meet somebody
and you say, oh, why don't you know I've got
some friends coming over. Why don't you come over as
well and meet them? It's that's the way socialization happened.
(20:00):
That's your circles widen. And we wanted that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Why can't act kids have that as well?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It's just that, you know, sometimes what happens very organically
for typical perse people just does not happen as organically
for people with disabilities, just because sometimes spaces are not
accessible or uh, the situation is not conducive, or and
(20:28):
just the numbers are smaller, right, I mean, neurotypical populations
are much larger than neurodivers.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Also, coming across people like you meet people.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
You you you just know who you know, right, You'll
have your small Exactly, how do you go beyond your
circle unless there is a platform with other people who
you may not have met, uh naturally just through your
word of mouth? How how do you meet those people
without a platform like this? So that was the idea
for the platform that could be somebody in my neighborhood
(21:01):
that I had no idea about but you know, signed
onto the platform and I discovered that they were living
you know, yeah, not too far away. So that was
really the idea for making an app like this.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, it's a wonderful And rather, there's so much social stigma,
you know about disability still in our country, you know,
I mean, Monsha and I might be shouting from the
rooftops being very proud and proclaiming that this is who
our boys are, but there's still so much social stigma,
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And there are people who will still prefer.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Not to take their children out. And so then where
did these children go and how do they they learn
to interact with other people? So that becomes a big issue.
And I think, like Manisha said that when somebody has
a lived experience of a condition, there is.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So much that that's so much in common and that
that makes it so much easier to be able to relate. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know another thing, Mansha, what you said that you
know your child went to a regular school. Yeah, so
I was just curious that, you know, I mean, didn't
you make friends there?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That means it's difficult, right, so.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
You know he did, he did, and he still has
like he still has friends from that school.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm just asking because you know, you read so much
on Facebook and social media that you know my son
was not invited for a birthday party or he was
left of some game.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
You know, Yeah, we have lucky in my my particular situation,
we were really lucky. I think it was maybe uh
uh we do hear those stories, of course. In my case,
I think it was a function of the particular school
that it has a very inclusive philosophy, So that feeling
of inclusiveness was uh fostered very on early on in
(22:41):
the other kids. So all of that was there, and
he still had he's still connected with some of his school.
But you know the fact is that if the other kid,
his other very close friend from bs is now goes
to law school in another city, now Mian's trajectory is
different from that other kid. He's your friends. You may
have kinds of friends who's going to be your every
(23:01):
day friend.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I guess those kids have you know, moved on
from putting on the music and dancing exactly, yeah, just
having fun, simple tal correct, So those experiences, then uh,
your the chance of you having that friend who is
going to be your friend, who is going to be
available to you every day through the week or through
(23:25):
the month, not the friend that you meet when they
have holidays or when they.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Those are also great. I mean, I'm saying one should
have all kinds of friends across, but who is going
to be that person who will you can call, you know,
who will show up your doorstep, and you know that
is most likely to happen in within the with the
community of people with shared.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Experience, with equivalent enthusiasm.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And you know, through this whole process, I mean, go
Pika and I realized that one is Mihan and we
having that, you know, life changing for them, but we
also have life changing for us because morerow of like
I suddenly have to travel or do something, I know
I can just say, hey, you know, can you just
can men come over? Or likewise, you know, we can
(24:19):
we come and stay over for a few days. Like
we've just become each other's support systems. And I think
caregivers also could really do with having those caregiver relationships
in their life. And the app can be accessed by
people with disability, but can also be accessed by caregivers,
so caregivers can find out the caregivers as well.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
On the app. Yeah, that's a huge support network that
you You know, sometimes what happens.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Is that you you're a newly diagnosed parent and you
don't you know the news has been told to you,
and you're so confused and lost.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You don't know what your I will look like, you
don't know how things will pan out. And you can
connect with somebody not necessarily for your child, but for
yourself and you know, so you connect with the parent
of a twenty year old or a thirty year old
and say, what's my life going to look like? Where
did you go? Did your child go to school? Did
this happen like? How did you manage? How did you
(25:22):
deal with your extended family? What did you say to
your friends?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Are think there are these questions which what parents think
of as stupid questions, you know, because you go to
see the therapist for one hour a week and you
don't really want to ask the.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Therapist, or maybe the therapist doesn't have the answer to
those questions. So only another parent can answer those questions.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And it's great to have that connection with somebody who's
walked that path before, gone through the journey and will
tell you that you know what it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Your book also goes along way in that because it's
very honest, that's what I You know, you've written about
all your fears and going through the five stages of
brief literally you know, denial, anger, bargaining, finally acceptance and uh,
you know, breaking down and you know, having meltdowns yourself
and trying to deal with the diagnosis. So it's very honest, really,
(26:15):
And I guess, uh, and now you said that you
just saw your boy as somebody you know who's I mean,
you're afraid for him, and now you see him as
a fully functioning person and he's fun.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And you see all his great sides. Right, So that's
the journey, and I'm sure it will help other mothers.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, that's the idea, you know. The idea is that
the more we go out there and the more we
can kind of get people to connect. I think for
me personally, we had had this super.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Supportive school structure. I did not have that.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
We did not have that, and so for us it
was a bit of a struggle because in terms of pooling, uh,
it was difficult, you know, finding that right fit, finding
the right school, even within the right school, finding the
social setup and the friends for him was really really hard.
So we did not have that kind of you know,
(27:12):
super supportive, super inclusive setup. Uh And so I really
feel that if somebody can benefit from this by not
having to go through that, even one person, I'll be happy,
you know, if they can find somebody in their neighborhood
who they or or like, somebody who they you know,
who they can connect with in whatever way.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
It would really be.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Fat if you have somebody who can who used chat
with online, even if they don't do at the end
of the day, connect with someone who understands you, and
you can if you find that person, you can even
have an online conversation with. Why not, you know, have
a very deep human connection is very caught to all
(27:55):
of us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Because you as a family, you're struggling, right, so when
you reach somebody outside your family, you gether objectivity and
it's easier exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And the thing is that you know, and with an
app again like this, uh mean, and we were lucky
that they clicked, right, I mean, it clicked. So you
need to like anybody else. It's not like you just
put two people with disabilities together and they're going to
like just it's going to need to sometimes just need
a lot of people to find. Some people may fulfill
(28:25):
some needs, some people may fulfill other needs you may have.
You can, you know, just widen your circle with different
people that you connect with on different things. You know,
somebody may be someone that you play a spot with,
or you may pay you know, a board game with,
and somebody else maybe someone that you do something.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Else with or exactly all of all all of us exactly,
So you just want, yeah, choices. And there are so
many young people on the app as well. We we've
seen that our maximum age group is twenty to thirty,
you know, so they all want a circle of friends.
(29:07):
They they want people to hang out with. They really
really want that to make those connections because it can
be very lonely. And so that's why it's for all ages.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
And I can see that.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You know, you're doing workshops, offline workshops, you're meeting people, schools,
et cetera. You know you've been visiting schools, et cetera
to you know, spread the world and I guess warm connections.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So how has it, How has that been? How are
you spreading the world? Really? I think just.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Meeting as many organizations as possible talking about the app,
talking about people's you know, have concerns about you know, safety, security,
like so and who is this app? Who has made
this app? Like if somebody just gets a random forward
in their WhatsApp, they're not going to have necessarily trusted.
(29:58):
But if they understand the intent behind, you know, what
the app was intended to do, and they maybe put
a face to who created it, they would understand that,
you know, it's not just some random thing that has
just popped up out of nowhere. It's created by parents
who felt a need and had a lived experience and
(30:21):
you know, wanted to solve for it. So I think
that just goes a long way in reassuring people. And
I think just people, you know, you know, the moment
you get something in your something or like a forward,
you sometimes want to know more that you may not
necessarily get by reading about it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
So I think just art talking about it just helps. Also,
Bill starts, because there's so many apps, these facts.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Don't Unlike Monsha was talking about intention, I think that
when people see that we have built.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
This app for the community.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
We have worked with the community, various disability communities to
be able to test the accessibility, to make sure that
it's safe to see what works for Because we've had
focused groups who we've called and we've spoken to about it, we've.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Tested the app.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
You know, before the app was even developed, we had
a group saying is this something that's going to work?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Do you think it's important to have this?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
And then go on to say that, okay, is is
this something which you know, when we had the actual
appt getting them to test it. What do you think
about the look and feel? What do you think about
the way it works? Does it work for you? I
think when people see all that and they recognize that ultimately,
Monisha and I are two moms who are trying to
(31:44):
make this work. It's been amazing in terms of the response.
There are people who will just come and want to
help us with so many things. There are people who
have offered of their services. That people parents writing and
saying we want to help you, Please tell us how
we can help you.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
You know, spread.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Read the word and it's surely been very very positive
our aim. Now, of course, it's it's a numbers game
with the app.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
The more people on it, the more.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Chances of a connection happening, and so what our aim
right now is to make sure that the app gets
out there and that the people who it's meant for
get on the app and build those connections.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, I saw there's a huge there's a long drop
down list.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
There's fragile like syndrome that's to red, there's even LGBTQ I.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
There's everything there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So tell me when you held these focus groups, what
came out of it that any learnings that you could
share and hands out?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, so many, so many. I think the books really
helped us.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Uh, you know, so many things got added, like we
just put on okay, what do we think of possible interest?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But you know, think LGBTQ. That was a big one suggestion.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Somebody said, you know, people in the LGBTQ and who
are lg we have from that community and have a disability,
have no real way of meeting each other, so can
we add that as an interest. So that really came
out of one of the suggestions from the from we.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Have the ability to block users.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Uh, so you know we said, okay, we'll do this
block thing so that if somebody is irritating someone, you
can block them. But then we had somebody who's neurodivergent
who said, you know, sometimes in a bit of anger, I.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Block somebody, but then I feel bad and I want
to unblock them. So we said, okay, let's build in
and unblock, you know, so we we put that that
bit in and we can't. We are willing to constantly
take feedback. And we've got somebody.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Who who's visually impaired who helped us with the whole
accessibility in terms of the screen reader and the.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Voice recognition kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
So we we worked on that with him, and he
continues to help us and says, Okay, this is how
this should read, this is what is right, this is
what is wrong, this is how the visually impaired community
will perceive it. So constantly it's been such a such
a learning for us. I think our own now neuroplasticity
has been increased tremendously in the building of this app.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, it's been really a very steep learning curve for us,
considering we have no zero tech background. We've just learned
new terminology. We've become conversant with high fancy sounding tech
words that we had no idea about before we started
on this journey. But it's been fun. And like anybody
(34:40):
who understands apps will tell you an app, just putting
it out there is only the first step. It's like
a constant work in progress. So you put out the app.
So now you've got it out, but then what are
people saying? Are they saying that this is working? What
more would they like to see on it? So an
app is some think, it's like a thing that keeps
(35:01):
evolving based off what the people that are using it
are wanting from it. So if someone is saying that, okay,
if this is great, but we really feel like this
feature needs to be there, then you know, we listen
to that. Obviously, slowly we'll get that it can't all
happen at once, but yes, we make a list of
all the things that we feel like we'll get to
at some point, and we keep working towards that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
What are some other features that you know that are
that you're considering adding?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
You know, I think right now it's just a thing
where people are meeting each other profile something, but peoples
a couple of different things that have been thrown up,
and we're like, maybe you know, like a community or
noticeboard where you can share things pieces of information. So
(35:52):
that's there's something a little more dynamic happening on the chat.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Some people have said, go pick anything else, like what.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
A we did.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
One of the things that we want to add work,
which we're working on and we want to add at
some point of time, is that for a lot of
people with disabilities, they say hi, how are you, and
then they get stuck, you know what, how to take
the conversation further, So to just create something which gives
them prompts to help them, you know, kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Suggestions to see how to take it further.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah, and of course accessibility, because accessibility something that is
you can always do it better. We couldn't start. I
mean somebody also told us that if you try to
perfect everything, you will not get off the ground.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
From many people time to do and then keep you know, keep.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Improving as you go along. But so accessibility right now
is uh, you know, is there. The accessibility features are there,
but we could always do something more. So yeah, you know,
next the next phase we could add more accessibility feature.
So that's definitely one of the things. So tell me
how does it work?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Like you go on the app, I just downloaded it
and then it asked you to log in and then
you know, I saw that there are loads of interests,
et cetera that you can sign upon, and then how
does it work?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
How do you connect? And then to meet up?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
What happens so the caregiver logs on, logs on and
signs up for their child.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
So the child's profile is made. If the child is.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Under eighteen, then you are I mean you will click
caregiver account account belongs to a clare giver.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
When you start off with you're asked whether the account
belongs to a caregiver. You fill in your.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Child's information, your child's disability, interests, gender, everything else, and
then what happens is that the algorithm based on your
profile throws up some suggestions for you. So you can
look at those and body up with them, or you
can do a search which is on five criteria.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Which is the age, there's a minimum and maximum age.
There is the distance from you.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
There is the disability, whether you're looking in a particular disability.
There is interests, so you want someone to match your
interests and gender. So a lot of girls' parents especially
and also a lot of women who are on the
app might prefer to just make friends with other women
and so based on these five criteria, you can search
(38:33):
and then you go into the person's profiles. You've thrown
up a couple of profiles, or you know, a few
profiles come up. You go into each profile, read about them,
and if you feel you want to become friends with
that person, you buddy up with them.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
And then yeah, then once you body up with someone
and begin chatting in the app, so you can use
the chat feature to get to know somebody in app
without really sharing any personal details. So you can get
to find out a bit more about them and have
a lengthy chat and if you then feel like you
(39:15):
want to take the person seems trustworthy heart. There's one
more thing. There's like a video call feature in the
chat that you can do to do a quick verification.
Suppose you want to want to make sure that this
person who are chatting with it's a nameless, faceless person, right,
I mean you don't know whether they may say I'm
eighteen years old, but they may be much older or
(39:37):
maybe in gender. So you want to do a quick verification.
You can say, hey, can we get on a video call?
You can do a quick one minute verification to see
who that person is and then you can be reassured, okay,
they are actually who they say they are.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So do you have like a verification as well of
the profiles. We don't do our own verification.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
We leave for the person to kind of do a
video verification of whose okay, which is why we've had
that feature. Oh yeah, yeah, so there's.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
No catfishing happening, so they can just check.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, they can chat, they can just check now. And
in terms of our our you know, sign up process,
we do have like a two step verification, which means
they're kindly bots and you know, those fake accounts and
all our stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
We've all about very detailed safety guidelines which we have
outlined very clearly for me, you know, interactions online, should
the person decide to take it offline or you know,
meet in a public place. If it's a child, the
caregiver has to of course accompany them in case they're
the person so you have to be eighteen to sign
(40:46):
onto the air. But in case people feel that there
is somebody who's over the age of eighteen, but they
feel that they're vulnerable, they feel that they maybe take
an advantage of then recently very strongly recommend that a
responsible adult, whether it is a parent, caregiver, or sibling,
(41:08):
that that person signs onto the app and manages and
operates the app on behalf of the adult. So in
any case, if you're below eighteen, you can't sign up,
you can't for them.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
There's one more thing that I'll add is that you know,
if there is a parent who has a vulnerable adult
ward who would like to use the app, but maybe
they have an intellectual disability and the parents is worried
about you know that they're over the age of eighteen,
(41:44):
So technically, you know, they could use the app or
put sign on. The parent then can sign on from
their own phone and be an observer. We're using the
same log in details. So you could have the app
installed on the parent's phone through which they can kind
of observe. They wouldn't participate, obviously, they would.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Leave that for it's wonderful they could keep.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
An eye on the you know what's going on, so
that nothing what is some is going on.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I guess it's difficult to just let go of the
child and let them beyond.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
Their own because some cases that maybe there may be
some genuine requirement for such a such a Now, of
course arrangement for a lot of people with disabilities, they
would would not They would be horrified at the thought
of this uh yeah, err and being on it and
(42:42):
which case, And there would be no reason for it
to you know, necessary because they're you know, able to
take those calls on their own and they don't would
not need such a thing. But there are certain populations
that could benefit from an arrangement like this.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, And I think the biggest thing, like for me,
what I can see is that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Of course like adult persons of disability, they can connect
right on their own, but also parents like you know,
I remember reading in book again that you know, and
you were very social as a couple, you and your husband,
but after the diagnosis, it was difficult for you to
even just vote for a party, right, So I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Know that was your case as well. But for this
uh and your son is very social, you said, yeah, yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
You know in this case, through your app, people can
make these social connections and as you said, a totally yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
That I have met so many young like of younger kids.
You know, sometimes somebody will refer to as a friend,
via would refer to refer to us younger, you know,
I mean not younger, but parents who are you know,
knew our parents in this whole down syndrome space to us,
(43:55):
and we've heard just such heartbreaking stories about how the
relatives have I don't want to be friends with them.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
The cousins are not wanting to, they don't want the building,
kids don't want want to play with their kids.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
They've kind of almost been shunned.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
So this is I mean, we, as I said earlier,
I said, we are very privileged. We come from families
where you know, they're luckily for us, are very open minded,
very accepting and not just accepting but embracing of.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Our boys.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It's not the case for everybody.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So sometimes you may need.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
To find those social connects, uh, you know, beyond who
you already know. If they've they've been often enough to
to shun you, then you you definitely need to go
elsewhere to find that right is very important.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
What often happens is with kids, specifically our kids on
the spectrum, kids of autistic kids, is because some.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Of them may have each issues in terms of they
may not be speaking yet, or they may be non speaking.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
They again the communication becomes difficult and so the family
very often blames the parents, particularly the mother.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
It becomes a very socially isolating condition. And you know,
there is a I feel that the stigma associated with it.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Is, like what I said, very very high.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
There's a lot of social stigma and there are also
I think because we live in India, which is a
country with high superstition and you know, lots of belief
of on on religion, and I mean, you know, living
in a metro is a very different situation, but when
you go into other parts of the country, Uh, there
(45:55):
are so many other reasons.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Attributed to the disability. Uh, and that makes it tougher
for parents.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
And so we're hoping that something like this, when you
reach out to another parent of a child who has
a disability, it's almost like we found somebody who you
can relate to on so many levels.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
And so we're hoping that those connections as well.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
And I was also you know, I was talking about
being you know, having very fantastic family support and very wonderful,
wonderful friends and family that fully embraced, you know, our
child when he was when when we first got the diagnosis,
(46:36):
they said, you know, there was no.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Issue on that fant.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
But yet I remember, for me personally, the biggest time
that I actually could sort of breathe easy was after
meeting a parent of an older uh you know, like
maybe Mihan was just a couple of months old, and
I met her twelve or thirteen year old child with
(47:02):
down syndrome who was leading a lovely life, and I
spoke to her mom, who was also very positive, and
then I could literally breathe easy after speaking to her. So,
no matter what anybody self said that single you know,
those few meetings I think were the ones that really
(47:23):
kind of changed my the way I felt about how
life was going to be, just just seeing that you know,
that it was going to be okay, and here were
these families who seem to be fine, and I just
felt like, then, I'm glad that we as parents have
been able to be that parent for other people. You know.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Of course, just one thing I want to ask you
know that you know, for I mean, we're talking about
creating a space for neurodivergent individuals and their parents, but
you know all about neurotypical people, we also have to
step up, right because you know, you've spoken about stemming.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
That was a new order.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It came across that you know self soothing, you know
movements of self soothe. So can you explain that a bit.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
You know doming so stimming is basically something which so
I should tell you that we all stim. Okay, so
when we are when we are nervous, we kind of
wring our hands like this.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Uh, when we or we pace up and down.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
When we're very excited, we might just clap our hands
or kind of like you know, squeeze our faste like this,
or jump up and down in excitement. The thing is
that we do it in ways which might be considered
more socially appropriate in a sense. Also, we reach that
stage of from extreme high or anxiety to a state
(48:40):
of equilibrium relatively quickly. For somebody who has any kind
of neurodivergent condition, they might that there might be a
bigger gap between a high a state of hyper arousal
or a higher arousal and that state of equilibrium, and
so they might take a little longer or they might
(49:01):
need more to get there. So this could be when
they are excited, it could be when they are very anxious.
Anxiety is often the case.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
It could be when they're very happy. It could be
when they don't know what to do and communicate. So
stimming is a response. It's sensory stimulation to any kind
of response. So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Of what Wiel does.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Okay, when he hears a dog barking and he's become
much easier, he would squeeze his hands and grind his
teeth and rock back and forth. Now he just kind
of presses his hands together. There are children who will
because for him, that is his response.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
There are other children, so you want to again.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Responses can be avoidance responses and seeking responses. Sorry, I'm
trying to squeeze a lot of otie into this, but
I'll try and explain it as simply as possible.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
So some children and some people might seek.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Pressure, in which case you will find fifteen, sixteen, seventeen
year olds who will come and hug other people, okay,
and that if they've not been taught that, okay, this
is not what you do.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
You can seek the response in other ways.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Not necessarily because they're feeling great love, but because they
want that pressure of that that, you know, being pressed
against somebody. There are some people who will shriek if
a particular shirt is put on them. So you will
remember in the book you I have talked about the tilt.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, right, and then you have them all away.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
There are people who have any kind of responses who like,
we're still cannot stand balloons popping and dogs barking. He
still cannot stand that he gets the payout.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Example was very nice, you know, because you didn't realize
that he's scared because and.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It goes over his head he can't see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
The minute I remember very clearly, I took all that
whole pile of T shirts and I literally gave them
away because I said I do not want any T
shirts in the house, because I was so and because
I did not understand, I was so impatient with him,
and I was beating myself up about this, you know.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
So I just did not want any T shirts in
the house after that.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
But the thing is that, again, like autism or any
other kind of neurodiversity condition, is a spectrum, and so
how one individual reacts to something may be very very
different from how other people react with So, for example,
you might find some kids who go and you know,
there's a gunpati pandal or a birthday party or something happening,
(51:42):
and there's a speaker and there's boeing music. You'll find
one child sitting at one corner right away putting the
hands on their ears because even so far away the music.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Is too much.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
And you'll find one child going on touching that speaker
because they like the vibration of it. So it's all
a spectrum. But stimming is basically something which people read.
It's simple ways to reach a state of equilibrium and
responsing to respond to sensory input.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
You want to add to that, And I just would
like to know how one should respond when you see that,
you know, because of course you don't look at it.
Oh that's odd behavior, you know, so you know you
don't shun that behavior or laugh at it, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
So how should somebody with neurotypical react. I I think.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
It's somebody neurotypical reacting to a steam. So stim does
look by by typical standards, It.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Does for god right.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
And the first thing to recognize is that the child
is not making the noise or jumping up and down
or shrieking or whatever to make because.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
They're they're having a tantrum.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
That that you know that that the parent is being
abat parent, because typically what would happen is that a
neurotypical person would look and the first reaction would be
what a brat? That's the first thing that would be, like,
why is this child being such a brat? Why is
the parent not.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
Able to control the child?
Speaker 3 (53:17):
And so to maybe just give the person the benefit
of the doubt and also to give them some space
because you know, generally what happens is if somebody is
shreeking like this or something, people might crowd around and say,
what's happening to your child?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Don't do this.
Speaker 3 (53:32):
We are very open with our suggestions and say give
the child a chocolate, or take the child outside, and
why do you bring your child to places like this?
Speaker 1 (53:39):
So there are lots of comments which pass. Just don't
do that.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
You could always ask somebody if they need help. If
they do, they will ask you if they or you
could just or they say no, just give me some time,
and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
But again that child is in When when there is
some sort of.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Extreme reaction and a child is having a meltdown or
they're not doing it for.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
Fun, yeah them just awareness which just go a long way.
People react because they're just they don't know any better, right,
They just like, you know, if someone's behaving in a
way that.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Is inappropriate crassication, they may think.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Oh that there's intent on that on the part of
the person that is behaving in that way, and the
thought or the the idea that this could just be
something that this person is unable to control would would
not even have crossed their minds, right, Which is why
it's so important this kind of educating of young kids
(54:46):
from a very early age to understand that there are
all ways of all kinds of ways of being, and
to then understand that somebody is not coming at it
from a place of you know, being disrupted or they're
really unable to do anything about this behavior, and to
just have that acceptance and that empathy for the person
(55:06):
that person is struggling to with something and therefore doing this.
I think that that building of empathy needs to happen
very early on in populations to then as you grow older,
you maybe will not, like bat an eyelid, you know,
you're not staying you know, make that person or that
family more uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Having said that, there's also.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
You know, a balance between if that person stimming is
really bothering me and by making me very anxious, then
you know, you have every right to kind of remove
yourself from the situation. I think, balance the needs of
everybody in this equation, but just do it respectfully, do
it kindly. And I think, you know, I think that
(55:49):
it's really I think there's just considering that it is.
Now we just know so much more about these things.
I think, you know, education needs to happen from a
much younger age to make people aware of, uh, these
types of situations and just be kinder to the people
that are dealing with some of these things.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
And I think we need more inclusive spaces, you know,
where you're exposed to such behavior, because often you know,
you never see it, so when you see it, you feel, oh,
there's something, what's wrong with that person. That person's being
a brad or you know, yeah, out of control or something.
Speaker 4 (56:25):
My own son, and as I said, in a main
he was in a regular kind of a mainstream classroom
and I would have, you know, kids come up to
me and said he would have this sort of thing
like when he was young, he would do aangangangangang. He
would like, do you know, make these noises?
Speaker 1 (56:41):
And some uh.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
Kids would come and ask me from a very young age,
and you know, I said, I would explain it to
him them in whatever language I found appropriate for that
age group of that stage, or the school teachers would have,
you know, appropriate language to explain these things. And those
kids then now then after that, when they have a
reason and they understand it, they don't even bat an eyelid,
you know, they just have Okay, that's that's him and
(57:06):
that's how he operates. And you know, there's just not a.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, and what you said about weird and Mihan's friendship,
they don't even question it, right, It's just how the
other person is work. Yeah, you know that's the highest
level of empathy really and friendship. Yeah, and friendship.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Would you like to add.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
Anything anything else? Have you not covered everything?
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Just?
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Buddy up is available in English and Hindi, both languages.
People can download it for free, and uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
That they should just start register, log on and you know,
just just start finding connections for themselves. Great. Thank you
so much for joining and all the best for buddy up.
Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you
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