June 14, 2023 • 25 mins
After considering the benefits of refreshing your podcast branding, you need to decide when it's the right time to do so. Here are some suggestions!
The post When Should You Refresh Your Podcast Branding? first appeared on The Audacity to Podcast®.
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(00:00):
When should you refresh your podcast branding?
(00:09):
Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast!
I'm Daniel J. Lewis.
After considering the benefits of refreshing your podcast branding that I shared in my
previous episode, I highly recommend you listen to that if you haven't already.
After that, you need to decide when it's the right time for you to refresh your podcast branding.
And that's what this episode will share, some suggestions and things for you to consider.
(00:32):
If you'd like to follow along in the notes or share this episode out with anyone else
who would benefit from it, then please go to theaudacitytopodcast.com/refreshwhen or
you can get the notes and the share links a simple tap or swipe away inside of your
podcast app.
Now a metaphor that you can think about, I'm not going to talk about this metaphor a whole
(00:53):
lot but something that you can kind of keep in your mind while I'm talking about this
is that you can imagine your podcast branding like your wardrobe. I'm not talking about
what you're wearing on a specific day, your daily attire, but your overall wardrobe. When
do you change what kinds of clothes you wear? You most likely do that based on the weather,
(01:13):
based on current styles, the fit, the condition of the clothing. You can think of your podcast
branding in that same way as I'm talking about this for your own podcast. When would
you refresh your wardrobe? When would you refresh your podcast branding? Maybe you do
them both at the same time. First, what is podcast branding? I talked about this in the
(01:34):
last episode. I'll repeat it again here. Your podcast branding is one or more features
that uniquely identify your podcast. It's the first impression for new audiences and
it's how your loyal audience recognizes your podcast distinctly from others. Podcast branding
is more than only your cover art. It could be the logo inside your cover art. And that
(01:55):
logo can be used for all kinds of things. And the logo is separate from the cover art
itself. The cover art is not a logo, but it can contain a logo. I've got a link to an
article with more information about that if you want. It's in the notes. And podcast branding
is also the audio and video elements you use throughout your episodes. It's also your podcast
(02:16):
description, it's your repeated phrases, it's even in how you communicate and host
your podcast. That's all part of your podcast branding. So a branding refresh would be when
you update any or all of these elements but you keep the core of your podcast the same.
Whereas a rebrand would be if you change much more of your podcast including what you talk
(02:42):
about and maybe even whom you try to reach. So we're talking about a podcast branding
refresh, not a rebrand. Just like with clothing, you're just changing the clothes that you
wear for a particular season or for whatever reason. You're not changing your entire being.
You're just changing some stuff on the outside that are expressions of the inside. So here
(03:06):
they are, some considerations to help you decide when you should refresh your podcast
Branding. Number one, when your podcast significantly changes. All podcasts will
change and I hope mature over time. But you might decide to significantly change
your podcast in a short amount of time. For example, changing your niche or focus.
(03:27):
Instead of talking about let's say cake decorating, you switch to focusing on the
business of cake baking. Or you change your subject. Like instead of being a
podcast about dating, you change it into a podcast about marketing and networking.
Or you change people. You add or remove a regular co-host. Or you completely change
(03:48):
what audience your podcast is for. You used to be a podcast for moms, now you're
a podcast for dads. That could be a significant change too. Or you change
your brand. You do more than simply a branding refresh, but a complete rebrand
of your podcast, basically turning it into a completely different podcast. These
and other significant changes you might think of are a good time to refresh
(04:13):
your branding to make it match and support the new changes. Number two, when
your branding stops growing with you. Like with clothing, you might someday
outgrow your branding. This isn't the result of an immediate significant
change like I mentioned in number one, but it's the gradual process of how
your podcast changes over time. So you're looking for something that fits better now
(04:38):
and probably with the hopes that it will last for a long time. Although it's not podcast branding,
this is a big reason I'm rebuilding my podcast reviews and actually rebranding it this year.
I currently refer to that rebrand by the code name "v2" and I talk about that in the little private
community I have for my podcast reviews members and I'm giving them previews of what's coming with
(05:01):
my podcast reviews. It's going to have all new code that will then grow much better with the
service and allow me to implement new features much faster. It will have a new brand that will
grow with those new features and new directions and lots of all new features that will grow with
you and your podcast. So I hope you'll check out mypodcastreviews.com right now and consider how
(05:25):
it can help you to engage and know your audience and watch for v2 which is launching this year,
summer 2023. That's at mypodcastreviews.com if you're interested and you want to, if you're a
member, then make sure that you join the community so that you can see some of the previews of what's
coming with the branding refresh, the rebrand, the rebuild, it's the re-everything for that.
(05:50):
And much of that, bringing it back to the subject of this podcast episode, much of that
is because I've realized so much of what my podcast reviews is and what I want it to be
doesn't fit under the current branding. So I'm doing all of these things so that it grows with
me, with the vision, with the product as the product has grown, and so it grows with you,
(06:14):
the podcaster, who I hope will use the service as well. Check it out at mypodcastreviews.com.
You can even try it for free for a week if you haven't tried it before.
Bringing it back to you, you might have been an amateur podcaster when you started,
but you're now a highly skilled podcaster. And if you're not sure the difference between
those terms or want some more clarification on how I would define an amateur podcaster
(06:38):
versus skilled podcaster, and it has nothing to do with amateur radio,
I've done an episode previously about labeling podcasters like amateur versus skilled or hobbyist
versus professional and such. I've got a link to that old episode in the notes for this episode as
well. So you might have grown. Your skills might have grown. You might be really good at having
conversations in your podcast now. You might be a professional at this even though you're doing it
(07:02):
only as a hobby. So you want to make sure your branding fits how you and your podcast have grown.
It doesn't need to be the really cheap look that it might have been before. And I'm not saying you
started with a cheap look, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but when you grow and your
podcast grows and matures, then you want your branding to grow with it.
(07:25):
Moving on to number three, when you enter new seasons. I think podcast seasons, and
we can put quotation marks around that, are a commonly misunderstood thing in podcasting.
Listen to my previous episodes, "Should You Podcast in Seasons?" and "Should You Include
seasons in podcast episode titles to learn more about effectively using seasons with
(07:46):
your podcast.
But we need to think about the different ways of using seasons.
It's not only about schedules.
If your seasons bring new themes, then that might be a great time to do some mild brand refreshing.
I don't mean a complete redesign with every season that makes your podcast unrecognizable,
but something that continues some of the same elements while giving them a fresh look. Just
(08:11):
like how every new menu item from Taco Bell is the same few ingredients merely in a different
form. If you change the artwork for every podcast season, try to keep the overall look
consistent. For example, look at how some of the TV shows maintain the same look in
each season's physical packaging. You can look at any one of those seasons and see the
(08:32):
branding and clearly recognize it as belonging to that show, but if you put the seasons next
to each other, you'll also see obvious differences among them and between them.
Even if your podcast doesn't publish on a seasonal schedule or have thematic seasons
– and by the way, having a seasonal schedule, I don't think that's really all that much
(08:52):
of a reason to change your cover art or refresh your branding simply because you took a hiatus
and you've returned from the hiatus. It needs to be something, I think, more pronounced
than that, more obvious to the audience, especially if they're listening later. So even if you
don't have a schedule or a theme with your seasons, you might still look for new "seasons"
(09:14):
of your podcast, just like how we talk about different seasons or chapters of life. These
seasons might not have definite beginnings and endings, but they could, and they're
far less rigid than traditional seasons. For example, I used to say that my former Clean
Comedy podcast had four seasons over its hundreds of episodes and that was based on our approach
(09:38):
to the content. The only way our audience knew about the seasons was from our talking
and even joking about having the different seasons. Even these, we could call them pseudo-seasons,
could have been good times to refresh our branding. And that's exactly what we did
with one of those new seasons. We had new cover art, new music, a new approach to the
(10:02):
way that we communicated and shared the stories and such. It was like a new season, although
at that time we didn't say, "This is the new season." We just, right from the end
of one season into the other, I think was a week or two weeks apart, and that was it.
And we didn't even call it a season change until later. And we made that part of the
joke of the show. It wasn't a defined ending and beginning. It was more like a season of
(10:26):
life, a chapter, just moving on gradually. But there were some definite changes and that
was a good time to do a branding refresh.
Moving on to number four, when should you refresh your podcast branding? When you can
improve the quality. One of my favorite things I've heard my older brother say is, "You
don't have to be a rocket scientist," even though I am, and he is. And in podcasting,
(10:49):
You don't have to be a graphic designer, you don't have to be a professional audio
engineer, you don't have to be an acclaimed marketing and branding manager to have great
podcast branding.
Even though I would say I am a graphic designer.
But you don't have to be any of these things.
If you're independent and podcasting is a hobby, you probably can't invest in high-quality
(11:09):
stuff and that is okay.
Please don't feel like you have to spend thousands of dollars on your branding.
You don't.
You don't even have to spend hundreds of dollars.
You can upgrade your branding later, either when you have more skills or when you can
afford to get the right help.
Or maybe even have someone in your audience who would love to give back to your podcast
(11:33):
with some great branding.
This going back to my podcast reviews is the same thing.
Version 1 was coded by a developer overseas that I got to work with for several years
and built a good friendship and relationship with him.
Because when I started my podcast reviews in 2014, I knew nothing about coding.
Almost nothing.
I knew HTML and CSS.
(11:54):
That was it.
I knew nothing about JavaScript.
I barely knew anything about PHP.
I could copy and paste code.
That was about it.
But beyond that, I didn't know anything.
Now I have skills.
A particular set of skills.
And those skills are enabling me to build version 2 all by myself, completely from scratch.
(12:17):
That's because I've built those skills over time and made some intentional efforts on
growing those skills by taking courses and training and investing in myself in that way.
That took investments of some money, yes, but mostly time and attention.
And I'm able to make something much better coming up.
I'm really excited about it if you can't tell because I keep talking about it in my little
(12:39):
group for the members. I keep posting screenshots and videos of new things that are coming.
Sometimes I feel like just posting like, "Hey look! I changed this icon from this color
to that color and I think it looks so much better now!" I'm just so excited about the
project and I hope you will be too. But anyway, so this and reason number two that I mentioned
previously when your branding stops growing with you were the biggest reasons I refreshed
(13:02):
the branding of The Audacity to Podcast a few years ago. I knew the old visual branding
didn't convey how my podcast had grown, both in professionalism and in purpose.
While I always had the "giving you the guts and teaching you the tools" approach, I
didn't really lean into that so much until years later and then I realized the branding
(13:24):
needed to match with that and that could help improve the quality too.
Because that old branding for The Audacity to Podcast looked dated, it looked low quality
and was actually very difficult to work with in my own graphic design work. And I was the
one who designed the original branding. And even the rebranding too. The new branding
is so much easier to work with and different applications and places and design and such.
(13:49):
The old one, not so much. I was very tied to what I could do with that because I didn't
design it very well. It wasn't very high quality. The new brand is much better quality.
And even though I've used the same music for The Audacity to Podcast since the beginning
(and by the way, that's "Vegas Shuffle,"" thanks to Charlie Crow for that music), I improved
(14:10):
the quality of my audio branding by actually reducing it.
It used to take me up to 90 seconds just to get through my audio and spoken branding before
getting into the unique episode content.
Now you hear something unique from the first second of playing each episode, and I'm usually
(14:30):
fully into the episode content only about 10 seconds later.
The audio branding for The Audacity to Podcast is very short, even though it's the same
music that I've been using before.
Now much, much shorter, and I like it much shorter.
It just feels so much better to not be wasting your time with my audio branding.
(14:51):
To just, this is the audio branding, now it's gone, now let's get into the content.
That just feels really good to do it like that.
I like it.
It's kind of like eating dessert first.
I have a sweet tooth.
So maybe your podcast branding could use a refresh to make it much better and match the
quality that your podcast is now.
They say don't judge a book by its cover, but like I talked about in the previous episode,
(15:16):
people do and I think sometimes people should.
If your outside branding isn't very good, how can people really know that the inside
content is very good?
The outside is the first impression.
inside gets them to stay.
So look for if it's time for you to improve the quality of your podcast branding.
(15:37):
Number five, when there's enough compelling feedback.
I've seen podcasters swayed by only a single piece of negative feedback.
I've even seen podcasters swayed by only a single piece of positive feedback.
And unfortunately, these have sometimes not been in the right direction.
So I'm not suggesting that you refresh your branding whenever anyone says something negative
(16:00):
about your existing branding.
If you did that, you'd be changing your branding constantly.
Instead, I suggest looking for how compelling the feedback is, either by its breadth of
how much feedback you received or the depth of the feedback you received.
That feedback will usually come from your audience, but it might also come from your
(16:21):
peers, your co-hosts, your guests, people you've hired to work with you, or even from
your own mind.
Each of these has its own weight that you must determine yourself.
Just remember that some people hate change, and some people just love to hate.
So you might always expect to get some negative feedback if you change something.
(16:43):
The most valuable feedback, and I suggest you try to practice this whenever you give
feedback is what offers possible solutions, especially with reasons.
For example, low value feedback could be "Red is bad.
Don't use red."
That doesn't really tell you much, does it?
It doesn't tell you why.
It doesn't tell you what to do instead.
(17:05):
But high value feedback could be something more like "You know, your show is all about
growth and friendship."
So instead of red, which is a little bit jarring, you might want to consider greens or blues
which convey growth and friendliness. Or maybe even a warm orange that could feel like you're
huddled around a campfire. Do you see how much more valuable feedback like that is compared to
(17:27):
simply "red is bad, don't use red"? That's the kind of higher quality, higher value feedback that
I think you should listen to more often. That's not to say there's no value in someone saying "red
is bad, don't use red", but you have to take it with a bigger grain of salt than that high value
your feedback and any feedback again it goes back to what is the weight of that feedback
(17:49):
and ultimately it's your show so you can do with it what you want.
If you have co-hosts who also take part in the decision making you need to make that
decision with them as well.
Maybe there are other decisions like with your spouse or things like that other shareholders
we could call them although that sounds like such a corporate term I promise you I will
wash my mouth out after this podcast for saying shareholders.
(18:13):
I said it twice so I'll have to wash my mouth out twice.
But consider how compelling the feedback is and the value in the feedback.
There's value in every piece of feedback.
How much value, how much weight does it actually have?
That might tell you when it's time to do a podcast branding refresh.
And lastly, number six, when you determine the benefits outweigh the costs.
(18:37):
It might not be a strong single reason that helps you decide to refresh your branding,
but the sum of multiple things.
Listen to my previous episode for sure because it's so relevant to this episode.
Six benefits of a podcast branding refresh.
Listen to that to learn more about some of the good things that a branding refresh might
(18:57):
bring you, your podcast, and your audience.
And for a quick review, those six things are attract a new audience, increase your perceived
quality, adapt to the latest trends, strengthen or reset your podcast's identity and message,
infuse new energy for your audience and yourself, and stand out from others.
When you can objectively determine your podcast would greatly benefit from a branding refresh,
(19:21):
then it's a good time to do it.
And so press on and make it great.
Make sure the new brand is actually better than the old brand.
do a GAP where I don't know what they were thinking when they did a little square gradient
slightly offset and that was their new branding.
Who thought of that?
(19:42):
That was not a higher quality branding.
And was anyone really out there saying, "You know, GAP really needs to refresh their branding."
Probably not.
Now sometimes when companies do a little branding refresh I think it looks really good when
it's executed well.
times it just doesn't do much for them. Look at a company like Apple. They've used that
(20:04):
Apple icon for I think since almost the beginning and the icon has barely changed. Now how they
style it, they've done some branding refreshes along the way but they've never re-branded.
It's always been that Apple. In the early days of 2000s it was a very physical looking
(20:25):
thing, it looked juicy or like jelly or like a glass or something like that. Sometimes
it looked like metal and things like that. Now it's very flat, but it's the same apple.
Taco Bell, it's the same taco, it's the same taco ingredients. But these are branding refreshes.
So again, these six things to help you decide when you should refresh your podcast branding
(20:48):
are number one, when your podcast significantly changes. Number two, when your branding stops
growing with you. Number three, when you enter new "seasons". Number four, when you can
improve the quality. Number five, when there's enough compelling feedback. And number six,
when you determine the benefits outweigh the costs. In my next episode, I'll talk more
(21:11):
about how to do a branding refresh. But in the meantime, some resources that I suggest
that you check out, and these links are in the notes for this episode, are Mark Ducote
from podcastbranding.co. He did not sponsor this. I do earn a commission if you tell him
that you heard about him from me, so I would really appreciate that. But I recommend him
because I believe in his work. He's a highly skilled designer and a podcaster, so he understands
(21:37):
branding, he understands podcasting, and he understands podcast branding really well.
So please, if you hire Mark from Podcast Branding, let him know that you heard about him from
me, Daniel J. Lewis, or from The Audacity to Podcast. I also frequently recommend 99
Designs and I earn commissions from them too. I've seen some really good quality work
come from 99 Designs and you get lots of options that you can consider, but some of those people
(22:02):
don't know podcasting very well. Like they might be tempted to slap a microphone or headphones
or an RSS icon into your branding. Don't let them do that. Mark doesn't do that,
Unless you give him a really compelling reason to do so, like you have a podcast about podcasting.
But 99designs might be a little more affordable for you.
(22:22):
But I still really recommend a personalized help to work with you and that's why I recommend
Mark from Podcast Branding so much.
And for audio branding, the only place I really know of that does this so well for podcasting
is Music Radio Creative, run by Mike and Isabella Russell.
I've known them for many years and they've done some work for me that unfortunately I
(22:45):
never got to use because it was for my podcast network, which retired before I actually started
using that particular audio branding.
But they do great work and they can even do some custom music, some custom voiceover work
for you and help you with your audio branding.
So my link to Music Radio Creative in the notes for this episode is also an affiliate link.
(23:06):
I earn a commission from that.
them for years and they're good friends.
And Mike, Russell and I have been vest buddies before where we've gone to podcasting conferences
and realized, "Hey, we both wear vests now."
I think he still wears vests, but I haven't continued the vest trend.
But they're good friends.
I've supported their business for years, even before I had the opportunity to earn
commissions from them.
(23:27):
I highly recommend them.
Now who do I not highly recommend?
Fiverr.
I actually recommend frequently against Fiverr.
But yeah, you can use them if you're on a really tight budget and you're going to get
really tight budget quality work.
But there also might be the chance that you might get some work that was stolen in order
to make it for you.
(23:47):
Like someone just did a Google Images search, copied something off of Google Images and
used that for your podcast branding.
That can get you in legal trouble if they do that.
So this is a reason I really don't recommend Fiverr very much.
There are some good people on Fiverr, especially in other areas beyond the visual design space.
Like if you ask someone to do a quick voiceover for you, that can be great in Fiverr.
(24:10):
I've heard them do that in the Buzzcast from Buzzsprout where they've hired someone
from Fiverr to voice their podcast reviews for them or voice some feedback for them and
that was fantastic.
That's a great use of Fiverr.
And there are some skilled people, even some skilled designers on Fiverr.
It just requires a lot more caution on Fiverr because you're getting dollar store quality
(24:33):
work sometimes because that's all you're paying is dollars on some of this stuff.
But consider instead some of these better quality, especially Mark DeCote from Podcast
Branding and Music Radio Creative.
I have the links to that in the notes and all of these notes and other links that I've
mentioned that were a lot of links for this episode in the notes.
or swipe away inside of your app or at theaudacitytopodcast.com/refreshwhen.
(24:58):
Now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's time for
you to go start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit.
I'm Daniel J. Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com.
Thanks for listening!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
When should you refresh your podcast branding?
(00:09):
Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast!
I'm Daniel J. Lewis.
After considering the benefits of refreshing your podcast branding that I shared in my
previous episode, I highly recommend you listen to that if you haven't already.
After that, you need to decide when it's the right time for you to refresh your podcast branding.
And that's what this episode will share, some suggestions and things for you to consider.
(00:32):
If you'd like to follow along in the notes or share this episode out with anyone else
who would benefit from it, then please go to theaudacitytopodcast.com/refreshwhen or
you can get the notes and the share links a simple tap or swipe away inside of your
podcast app.
Now a metaphor that you can think about, I'm not going to talk about this metaphor a whole
(00:53):
lot but something that you can kind of keep in your mind while I'm talking about this
is that you can imagine your podcast branding like your wardrobe. I'm not talking about
what you're wearing on a specific day, your daily attire, but your overall wardrobe. When
do you change what kinds of clothes you wear? You most likely do that based on the weather,
(01:13):
based on current styles, the fit, the condition of the clothing. You can think of your podcast
branding in that same way as I'm talking about this for your own podcast. When would
you refresh your wardrobe? When would you refresh your podcast branding? Maybe you do
them both at the same time. First, what is podcast branding? I talked about this in the
(01:34):
last episode. I'll repeat it again here. Your podcast branding is one or more features
that uniquely identify your podcast. It's the first impression for new audiences and
it's how your loyal audience recognizes your podcast distinctly from others. Podcast branding
is more than only your cover art. It could be the logo inside your cover art. And that
(01:55):
logo can be used for all kinds of things. And the logo is separate from the cover art
itself. The cover art is not a logo, but it can contain a logo. I've got a link to an
article with more information about that if you want. It's in the notes. And podcast branding
is also the audio and video elements you use throughout your episodes. It's also your podcast
(02:16):
description, it's your repeated phrases, it's even in how you communicate and host
your podcast. That's all part of your podcast branding. So a branding refresh would be when
you update any or all of these elements but you keep the core of your podcast the same.
Whereas a rebrand would be if you change much more of your podcast including what you talk
(02:42):
about and maybe even whom you try to reach. So we're talking about a podcast branding
refresh, not a rebrand. Just like with clothing, you're just changing the clothes that you
wear for a particular season or for whatever reason. You're not changing your entire being.
You're just changing some stuff on the outside that are expressions of the inside. So here
(03:06):
they are, some considerations to help you decide when you should refresh your podcast
Branding. Number one, when your podcast significantly changes. All podcasts will
change and I hope mature over time. But you might decide to significantly change
your podcast in a short amount of time. For example, changing your niche or focus.
(03:27):
Instead of talking about let's say cake decorating, you switch to focusing on the
business of cake baking. Or you change your subject. Like instead of being a
podcast about dating, you change it into a podcast about marketing and networking.
Or you change people. You add or remove a regular co-host. Or you completely change
(03:48):
what audience your podcast is for. You used to be a podcast for moms, now you're
a podcast for dads. That could be a significant change too. Or you change
your brand. You do more than simply a branding refresh, but a complete rebrand
of your podcast, basically turning it into a completely different podcast. These
and other significant changes you might think of are a good time to refresh
(04:13):
your branding to make it match and support the new changes. Number two, when
your branding stops growing with you. Like with clothing, you might someday
outgrow your branding. This isn't the result of an immediate significant
change like I mentioned in number one, but it's the gradual process of how
your podcast changes over time. So you're looking for something that fits better now
(04:38):
and probably with the hopes that it will last for a long time. Although it's not podcast branding,
this is a big reason I'm rebuilding my podcast reviews and actually rebranding it this year.
I currently refer to that rebrand by the code name "v2" and I talk about that in the little private
community I have for my podcast reviews members and I'm giving them previews of what's coming with
(05:01):
my podcast reviews. It's going to have all new code that will then grow much better with the
service and allow me to implement new features much faster. It will have a new brand that will
grow with those new features and new directions and lots of all new features that will grow with
you and your podcast. So I hope you'll check out mypodcastreviews.com right now and consider how
(05:25):
it can help you to engage and know your audience and watch for v2 which is launching this year,
summer 2023. That's at mypodcastreviews.com if you're interested and you want to, if you're a
member, then make sure that you join the community so that you can see some of the previews of what's
coming with the branding refresh, the rebrand, the rebuild, it's the re-everything for that.
(05:50):
And much of that, bringing it back to the subject of this podcast episode, much of that
is because I've realized so much of what my podcast reviews is and what I want it to be
doesn't fit under the current branding. So I'm doing all of these things so that it grows with
me, with the vision, with the product as the product has grown, and so it grows with you,
(06:14):
the podcaster, who I hope will use the service as well. Check it out at mypodcastreviews.com.
You can even try it for free for a week if you haven't tried it before.
Bringing it back to you, you might have been an amateur podcaster when you started,
but you're now a highly skilled podcaster. And if you're not sure the difference between
those terms or want some more clarification on how I would define an amateur podcaster
(06:38):
versus skilled podcaster, and it has nothing to do with amateur radio,
I've done an episode previously about labeling podcasters like amateur versus skilled or hobbyist
versus professional and such. I've got a link to that old episode in the notes for this episode as
well. So you might have grown. Your skills might have grown. You might be really good at having
conversations in your podcast now. You might be a professional at this even though you're doing it
(07:02):
only as a hobby. So you want to make sure your branding fits how you and your podcast have grown.
It doesn't need to be the really cheap look that it might have been before. And I'm not saying you
started with a cheap look, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but when you grow and your
podcast grows and matures, then you want your branding to grow with it.
(07:25):
Moving on to number three, when you enter new seasons. I think podcast seasons, and
we can put quotation marks around that, are a commonly misunderstood thing in podcasting.
Listen to my previous episodes, "Should You Podcast in Seasons?" and "Should You Include
seasons in podcast episode titles to learn more about effectively using seasons with
(07:46):
your podcast.
But we need to think about the different ways of using seasons.
It's not only about schedules.
If your seasons bring new themes, then that might be a great time to do some mild brand refreshing.
I don't mean a complete redesign with every season that makes your podcast unrecognizable,
but something that continues some of the same elements while giving them a fresh look. Just
(08:11):
like how every new menu item from Taco Bell is the same few ingredients merely in a different
form. If you change the artwork for every podcast season, try to keep the overall look
consistent. For example, look at how some of the TV shows maintain the same look in
each season's physical packaging. You can look at any one of those seasons and see the
(08:32):
branding and clearly recognize it as belonging to that show, but if you put the seasons next
to each other, you'll also see obvious differences among them and between them.
Even if your podcast doesn't publish on a seasonal schedule or have thematic seasons
– and by the way, having a seasonal schedule, I don't think that's really all that much
(08:52):
of a reason to change your cover art or refresh your branding simply because you took a hiatus
and you've returned from the hiatus. It needs to be something, I think, more pronounced
than that, more obvious to the audience, especially if they're listening later. So even if you
don't have a schedule or a theme with your seasons, you might still look for new "seasons"
(09:14):
of your podcast, just like how we talk about different seasons or chapters of life. These
seasons might not have definite beginnings and endings, but they could, and they're
far less rigid than traditional seasons. For example, I used to say that my former Clean
Comedy podcast had four seasons over its hundreds of episodes and that was based on our approach
(09:38):
to the content. The only way our audience knew about the seasons was from our talking
and even joking about having the different seasons. Even these, we could call them pseudo-seasons,
could have been good times to refresh our branding. And that's exactly what we did
with one of those new seasons. We had new cover art, new music, a new approach to the
(10:02):
way that we communicated and shared the stories and such. It was like a new season, although
at that time we didn't say, "This is the new season." We just, right from the end
of one season into the other, I think was a week or two weeks apart, and that was it.
And we didn't even call it a season change until later. And we made that part of the
joke of the show. It wasn't a defined ending and beginning. It was more like a season of
(10:26):
life, a chapter, just moving on gradually. But there were some definite changes and that
was a good time to do a branding refresh.
Moving on to number four, when should you refresh your podcast branding? When you can
improve the quality. One of my favorite things I've heard my older brother say is, "You
don't have to be a rocket scientist," even though I am, and he is. And in podcasting,
(10:49):
You don't have to be a graphic designer, you don't have to be a professional audio
engineer, you don't have to be an acclaimed marketing and branding manager to have great
podcast branding.
Even though I would say I am a graphic designer.
But you don't have to be any of these things.
If you're independent and podcasting is a hobby, you probably can't invest in high-quality
(11:09):
stuff and that is okay.
Please don't feel like you have to spend thousands of dollars on your branding.
You don't.
You don't even have to spend hundreds of dollars.
You can upgrade your branding later, either when you have more skills or when you can
afford to get the right help.
Or maybe even have someone in your audience who would love to give back to your podcast
(11:33):
with some great branding.
This going back to my podcast reviews is the same thing.
Version 1 was coded by a developer overseas that I got to work with for several years
and built a good friendship and relationship with him.
Because when I started my podcast reviews in 2014, I knew nothing about coding.
Almost nothing.
I knew HTML and CSS.
(11:54):
That was it.
I knew nothing about JavaScript.
I barely knew anything about PHP.
I could copy and paste code.
That was about it.
But beyond that, I didn't know anything.
Now I have skills.
A particular set of skills.
And those skills are enabling me to build version 2 all by myself, completely from scratch.
(12:17):
That's because I've built those skills over time and made some intentional efforts on
growing those skills by taking courses and training and investing in myself in that way.
That took investments of some money, yes, but mostly time and attention.
And I'm able to make something much better coming up.
I'm really excited about it if you can't tell because I keep talking about it in my little
(12:39):
group for the members. I keep posting screenshots and videos of new things that are coming.
Sometimes I feel like just posting like, "Hey look! I changed this icon from this color
to that color and I think it looks so much better now!" I'm just so excited about the
project and I hope you will be too. But anyway, so this and reason number two that I mentioned
previously when your branding stops growing with you were the biggest reasons I refreshed
(13:02):
the branding of The Audacity to Podcast a few years ago. I knew the old visual branding
didn't convey how my podcast had grown, both in professionalism and in purpose.
While I always had the "giving you the guts and teaching you the tools" approach, I
didn't really lean into that so much until years later and then I realized the branding
(13:24):
needed to match with that and that could help improve the quality too.
Because that old branding for The Audacity to Podcast looked dated, it looked low quality
and was actually very difficult to work with in my own graphic design work. And I was the
one who designed the original branding. And even the rebranding too. The new branding
is so much easier to work with and different applications and places and design and such.
(13:49):
The old one, not so much. I was very tied to what I could do with that because I didn't
design it very well. It wasn't very high quality. The new brand is much better quality.
And even though I've used the same music for The Audacity to Podcast since the beginning
(and by the way, that's "Vegas Shuffle,"" thanks to Charlie Crow for that music), I improved
(14:10):
the quality of my audio branding by actually reducing it.
It used to take me up to 90 seconds just to get through my audio and spoken branding before
getting into the unique episode content.
Now you hear something unique from the first second of playing each episode, and I'm usually
(14:30):
fully into the episode content only about 10 seconds later.
The audio branding for The Audacity to Podcast is very short, even though it's the same
music that I've been using before.
Now much, much shorter, and I like it much shorter.
It just feels so much better to not be wasting your time with my audio branding.
(14:51):
To just, this is the audio branding, now it's gone, now let's get into the content.
That just feels really good to do it like that.
I like it.
It's kind of like eating dessert first.
I have a sweet tooth.
So maybe your podcast branding could use a refresh to make it much better and match the
quality that your podcast is now.
They say don't judge a book by its cover, but like I talked about in the previous episode,
(15:16):
people do and I think sometimes people should.
If your outside branding isn't very good, how can people really know that the inside
content is very good?
The outside is the first impression.
inside gets them to stay.
So look for if it's time for you to improve the quality of your podcast branding.
(15:37):
Number five, when there's enough compelling feedback.
I've seen podcasters swayed by only a single piece of negative feedback.
I've even seen podcasters swayed by only a single piece of positive feedback.
And unfortunately, these have sometimes not been in the right direction.
So I'm not suggesting that you refresh your branding whenever anyone says something negative
(16:00):
about your existing branding.
If you did that, you'd be changing your branding constantly.
Instead, I suggest looking for how compelling the feedback is, either by its breadth of
how much feedback you received or the depth of the feedback you received.
That feedback will usually come from your audience, but it might also come from your
(16:21):
peers, your co-hosts, your guests, people you've hired to work with you, or even from
your own mind.
Each of these has its own weight that you must determine yourself.
Just remember that some people hate change, and some people just love to hate.
So you might always expect to get some negative feedback if you change something.
(16:43):
The most valuable feedback, and I suggest you try to practice this whenever you give
feedback is what offers possible solutions, especially with reasons.
For example, low value feedback could be "Red is bad.
Don't use red."
That doesn't really tell you much, does it?
It doesn't tell you why.
It doesn't tell you what to do instead.
(17:05):
But high value feedback could be something more like "You know, your show is all about
growth and friendship."
So instead of red, which is a little bit jarring, you might want to consider greens or blues
which convey growth and friendliness. Or maybe even a warm orange that could feel like you're
huddled around a campfire. Do you see how much more valuable feedback like that is compared to
(17:27):
simply "red is bad, don't use red"? That's the kind of higher quality, higher value feedback that
I think you should listen to more often. That's not to say there's no value in someone saying "red
is bad, don't use red", but you have to take it with a bigger grain of salt than that high value
your feedback and any feedback again it goes back to what is the weight of that feedback
(17:49):
and ultimately it's your show so you can do with it what you want.
If you have co-hosts who also take part in the decision making you need to make that
decision with them as well.
Maybe there are other decisions like with your spouse or things like that other shareholders
we could call them although that sounds like such a corporate term I promise you I will
wash my mouth out after this podcast for saying shareholders.
(18:13):
I said it twice so I'll have to wash my mouth out twice.
But consider how compelling the feedback is and the value in the feedback.
There's value in every piece of feedback.
How much value, how much weight does it actually have?
That might tell you when it's time to do a podcast branding refresh.
And lastly, number six, when you determine the benefits outweigh the costs.
(18:37):
It might not be a strong single reason that helps you decide to refresh your branding,
but the sum of multiple things.
Listen to my previous episode for sure because it's so relevant to this episode.
Six benefits of a podcast branding refresh.
Listen to that to learn more about some of the good things that a branding refresh might
(18:57):
bring you, your podcast, and your audience.
And for a quick review, those six things are attract a new audience, increase your perceived
quality, adapt to the latest trends, strengthen or reset your podcast's identity and message,
infuse new energy for your audience and yourself, and stand out from others.
When you can objectively determine your podcast would greatly benefit from a branding refresh,
(19:21):
then it's a good time to do it.
And so press on and make it great.
Make sure the new brand is actually better than the old brand.
do a GAP where I don't know what they were thinking when they did a little square gradient
slightly offset and that was their new branding.
Who thought of that?
(19:42):
That was not a higher quality branding.
And was anyone really out there saying, "You know, GAP really needs to refresh their branding."
Probably not.
Now sometimes when companies do a little branding refresh I think it looks really good when
it's executed well.
times it just doesn't do much for them. Look at a company like Apple. They've used that
(20:04):
Apple icon for I think since almost the beginning and the icon has barely changed. Now how they
style it, they've done some branding refreshes along the way but they've never re-branded.
It's always been that Apple. In the early days of 2000s it was a very physical looking
(20:25):
thing, it looked juicy or like jelly or like a glass or something like that. Sometimes
it looked like metal and things like that. Now it's very flat, but it's the same apple.
Taco Bell, it's the same taco, it's the same taco ingredients. But these are branding refreshes.
So again, these six things to help you decide when you should refresh your podcast branding
(20:48):
are number one, when your podcast significantly changes. Number two, when your branding stops
growing with you. Number three, when you enter new "seasons". Number four, when you can
improve the quality. Number five, when there's enough compelling feedback. And number six,
when you determine the benefits outweigh the costs. In my next episode, I'll talk more
(21:11):
about how to do a branding refresh. But in the meantime, some resources that I suggest
that you check out, and these links are in the notes for this episode, are Mark Ducote
from podcastbranding.co. He did not sponsor this. I do earn a commission if you tell him
that you heard about him from me, so I would really appreciate that. But I recommend him
because I believe in his work. He's a highly skilled designer and a podcaster, so he understands
(21:37):
branding, he understands podcasting, and he understands podcast branding really well.
So please, if you hire Mark from Podcast Branding, let him know that you heard about him from
me, Daniel J. Lewis, or from The Audacity to Podcast. I also frequently recommend 99
Designs and I earn commissions from them too. I've seen some really good quality work
come from 99 Designs and you get lots of options that you can consider, but some of those people
(22:02):
don't know podcasting very well. Like they might be tempted to slap a microphone or headphones
or an RSS icon into your branding. Don't let them do that. Mark doesn't do that,
Unless you give him a really compelling reason to do so, like you have a podcast about podcasting.
But 99designs might be a little more affordable for you.
(22:22):
But I still really recommend a personalized help to work with you and that's why I recommend
Mark from Podcast Branding so much.
And for audio branding, the only place I really know of that does this so well for podcasting
is Music Radio Creative, run by Mike and Isabella Russell.
I've known them for many years and they've done some work for me that unfortunately I
(22:45):
never got to use because it was for my podcast network, which retired before I actually started
using that particular audio branding.
But they do great work and they can even do some custom music, some custom voiceover work
for you and help you with your audio branding.
So my link to Music Radio Creative in the notes for this episode is also an affiliate link.
(23:06):
I earn a commission from that.
them for years and they're good friends.
And Mike, Russell and I have been vest buddies before where we've gone to podcasting conferences
and realized, "Hey, we both wear vests now."
I think he still wears vests, but I haven't continued the vest trend.
But they're good friends.
I've supported their business for years, even before I had the opportunity to earn
commissions from them.
(23:27):
I highly recommend them.
Now who do I not highly recommend?
Fiverr.
I actually recommend frequently against Fiverr.
But yeah, you can use them if you're on a really tight budget and you're going to get
really tight budget quality work.
But there also might be the chance that you might get some work that was stolen in order
to make it for you.
(23:47):
Like someone just did a Google Images search, copied something off of Google Images and
used that for your podcast branding.
That can get you in legal trouble if they do that.
So this is a reason I really don't recommend Fiverr very much.
There are some good people on Fiverr, especially in other areas beyond the visual design space.
Like if you ask someone to do a quick voiceover for you, that can be great in Fiverr.
(24:10):
I've heard them do that in the Buzzcast from Buzzsprout where they've hired someone
from Fiverr to voice their podcast reviews for them or voice some feedback for them and
that was fantastic.
That's a great use of Fiverr.
And there are some skilled people, even some skilled designers on Fiverr.
It just requires a lot more caution on Fiverr because you're getting dollar store quality
(24:33):
work sometimes because that's all you're paying is dollars on some of this stuff.
But consider instead some of these better quality, especially Mark DeCote from Podcast
Branding and Music Radio Creative.
I have the links to that in the notes and all of these notes and other links that I've
mentioned that were a lot of links for this episode in the notes.
or swipe away inside of your app or at theaudacitytopodcast.com/refreshwhen.
(24:58):
Now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's time for
you to go start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit.
I'm Daniel J. Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com.
Thanks for listening!
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