Bob Turner - A Bowen Island Perspective

This is a conversation with Bob Turner. A former Mayor on Bowen Island, conservationist, and filmmaker. I reached out to Bob to help provide context to the many issues we face on this small island, and to understand the politics of environmentalism.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Boone Island Podcast.I'm John Schaeffer, and earlier this week
I had a chance to spend sometime with Bob Turner. Bob's is comfortable
in the water and his kayak onthe Sally Sea filming as he is or
was as a former mayor of BowenIsland. I thought this might be a
good opportunity to talk about some ofthe issues that are going on, how

(00:20):
we got here and how we findour way going forward. So to start,
could you just tell us a littlebit about yourself, how you came
to Bowen, what you're passionate aboutand as a former mayor, and maybe
talk to the past, present andfuture of Bowen. Well, thank you,
Don. I really like what you'redoing here. I really like that

(00:41):
you're, you know, hunting aroundthe community looking for some voices just to
sort of create a richer conversation forall of us. You know, the
great thing about election periods is thatwe all start to pay attention and there's
this opportunity, I think all ofus to learn a lot during the election
period. So I think what you'redoing here with these conversations is really helping

(01:07):
us all, you know, bebetter learners and listeners, so thank you.
You know, I'm basically an Ontariotransplant. I was actually born in
Vancouver, but my dad was inthe military. We moved all over.
The place I really grew up witha central beacon in my life, which
was our family cottage in Algonquin Park, north of Toronto, And regardless of

(01:32):
where we moved to, we alwayswent back there for the summers. And
that was really the place that Ithink instilled in me a sort of just
a love of nature and wild places, but also, you know, it
was the place where our big extendedfamily gathered and it was like a tight
community, and I came to learnjust how important small community was to me

(01:53):
and being a partner and part ofit, even as a kid where everyone
is mostly older than you. YouSo that was a big formative thing for
me. I got interested in geologyearly on. I went to university,
you know, did geology at Queen'smet Rosemary, my wife there. We

(02:14):
both ended up going to Stanford Universityin California for graduate work. We moved
up to Bowen just because I wasyou know, we we had jobs here,
but really once we were on theWest Coast, we were smitten by
the West Coast and we just wantedto live in the West Coast. And
it took us a year to findBowen, but oh boy, once we

(02:36):
found it, we just felt likethis was like the perfect way to sort
of live a West Coast lifestyle closeto the city. We both had jobs
in the city, but in atight little community that had no end of
interesting personality and character. Like oneof the first things working now is if

(02:57):
a scientist with the Federal governm GeologicalSurvey of Canada. One of the first
things I was able to do backin those days, you know, governments
a little more flexible, is thatI pulled together a group of people of
other scientists and we held an environmentalscience conference for house sound. Never been
done before, rarely done for sortof small areas, but I sold it

(03:22):
to my management as a way forgeoscientists to sort of connect with the broader
natural science community. We had oceanographersand soil scientists and foresters. We talked
about pulp mill pollution and the oldleaky Britannia mine and the environmental consequences of
that, and I just learned aton and about sort of the broader workings

(03:42):
of this place we called how Sound, and that really galvanized me, and
I shifted from my sort of researchinterests more to education with the geological serviy
of Canada. So when the wholeconversation about becoming a municipality here on Bowen
took off, and I was askeptic and voted actually against incorporation. But

(04:04):
once we decided, yeah, that'swhere we're going, I jumped into politics
really, you know, just becauseI felt it was the right thing to
do. It was you know,I was I just sort of felt like,
Okay, time to do some service, Bob, this is a community

(04:24):
you care for. Jump in,not really knowing much about politics, and
yeah, I was there in theformat the first council where we really were
just trying to put there the machineryof the municipality together. I chose to
sit out the next council. Ijust I'd had enough. And then,

(04:45):
you know, I reflected on whatI saw as really sort of the struggles
of the second council. They theythey just had a lot of struggles,
and I sort of started to despairwith where we were going. So I
jumped back in as a mayor candidate, and I sort of won the next
two elections and was party to somebig stuff. Even if you weren't here,

(05:10):
you still hear stories of Cape RogerCurtis and sort of the challenge as
that was for the community in termsof grappling with this huge development for a
small community. It had some greatattributes it offered, but it would have
meant huge changes and we, youknow, we had to wrestle our way
through that. It was the hardestthing I think I've ever personally done being

(05:33):
involved in. And you know,in the end we chose know, as
much as some of what was offeredwas enticing, we just couldn't swallow the
big pill. And then, youknow a little bit after that, I
you know, was quite proactive inentertaining parts Candida to come and evaluate Bowen

(05:56):
Island as a possible candidate for anational park, you know, and we
went through a big, long conversationabout that with the community. I'm quite
proud of how we handled that consultation. It was definitely sort of a dividing
issue. People had strong feelings bothways, but I think we did the
community conversation well and in the end, the community chose no, didn't want

(06:19):
to go that way, and youknow, that may well have been the
right decision, though I personally supportedthe initiative. At the same time we
took on sort of updating the OCPand that sort of you know, set
sort of a forward look into thefuture. You know. I retired in
twenty four well twenty eleven from politicaland politics, twenty fourteen from the government,

(06:42):
and since then, you know,I've really sort of just rediscovered myself
in terms of making movies about mostlyyou know, the how Sound region and
mostly about our wild neighbors in it. I'm really of a heartfelt conviction for

(07:04):
our wild neighbors, you know,and sort of their voiceless circumstance in our
own human decision making and what Ihave observed, and I think this is
really core to who we collectively arein the cuts Somehow Sound region is that
when the whales came back to thisplace, and for one hundred years they

(07:27):
weren't here, and that's the humpbackwhales. And to a lesser extent,
New York has also disappeared in aboutthe nineteen seventies, and there was a
smattering of them, but they've reallycome back in the last ten years.
When the whales came back like thecommunity, the commitment that the human community
had to this place took off.It just took off. There was a

(07:51):
whole sense of excitement of pride inthis place, and it made clear to
me that we need, we needto feel that sort of connection to nature.
We need to feel that hopefulness thatcomes back or comes to us from
a healthy nature. That really galvanizedme to get involved with the Biasphere initiative.

(08:16):
That was a central piece of mywork for five years from twenty fifteen
to twenty twenty or twenty twenty oneuntil we had it in the bag and
the nomination was complete. But theBiosphere to me, really captured sort of
the whole sensibility of a big,sustaining human community committed to a rich ecology

(08:43):
and a sustainable pathway forward with allthe creativity that's required to make that happen,
and get excited about it and lookfor sort of a hopefulness in the
fact that we're taking charge. Sowhere does Bowen fit into this discussion today?
Where are we politically and where arewe consciously? Well? I think

(09:09):
we could be doing better, Okay, so go deeper. What's that look?
Like right now, my sense iswe don't really have much of an
environmental rudder on the good ship BowenIsland. We've got a couple of little
bits and pieces of things that exciteme. But in terms of essentially a

(09:31):
vision for where we're going to bein five years, ten years, twenty
years, I mean a vision forour how we hold together this natural space
that we so love in the faceof a global biodiversity that's in free fall.
Like it's just a central question,and I think at heart we have

(09:56):
to become proactive. Right now toa large extent, I think we're in
a sort of either passive or reflexivemode where we just sort of deeply hope
that we are going to hang onto everything that is so central to us.
In terms of the natural space thatis Bowen Island. If you look

(10:20):
at the OCP, it's nature isrichly woven into our whole sense of who
we are. If you look atthe branding exercise that went on I think
twenty fifteen, sixteen seventeen and theremore recently, again we sort of see
ourselves as this sanctuary, this quietplace, this place we refresh and we

(10:41):
reinvigorate in the backdrop of nature.And yet with all that need for nature,
that's what's being expressed, we reallydon't have a proactive plan to hang
on to what we've got in theface of all sorts of climate change,
forcings and sea level rise and warmand fire threats and you know, a

(11:03):
changing ocean. So some of thoseare like just beyond you know, certainly
my ability to sort of comprehend.But what I do know is that,
you know, we want to bea resilient community in the face of all
that, and resiliency is not justsort of a human resiliency. Resiliency is
basically an ecosystem level resiliency where humansare working with nature to hang on and

(11:26):
fortify and protect and work with whatwe've got. Like that's the game going
forward. And so I'd like tosee first of all, a big public
private partnership or maybe turn that around, private public partnership between all levels of
community where so much of what isdone environmentally is done by individuals, you

(11:50):
know, in the spaces that theycontrol, which you're you know, as
landowners or renters or members of communitygroups or parents of kids. Like,
we just have so many ways weinfluence how we sort of live with nature
and what we hang on to.So that private piece connected with the public
sphere, you know, which isgovernment. And I think one of the

(12:13):
dangers is to too quickly go what'sgovernment doing? You know, what's it
doing right? What's it doing wrong? Oh, keep me posted all check
in in four years in the nextelection to see how we did not good
enough, not good enough at all, you know, and formed energized citizenry
is the basis for resilient communities.That's what creates good government. It's not
the other way around. Good governmentdoesn't create that informed citizenry. So you

(12:37):
know, step one, boone Islandersand we've been good at this at the
past. We've got to keep doingit. Step up to the plate,
get engaged, get involved, andyou can do it in so many ways.
So to me, that's the bigpiece. And if you look at
the OCP, you know, inits vision statement, you know, one
of the things that it speaks tois an ethic of self reliance. It's

(12:58):
focused on the community, it's focusedon government deliverables, but it acknowledges,
you know, that ethic of selfreliance. Like there's a deep libertarian spirit
on Bowen and we need to betapping into that. So that's the private
piece the public piece, and governmenthas to provide leadership. And I think

(13:20):
it could be doing better if youlook at the OCP where and that was
you know, twenty ten, sowe're twelve years out. But the point
being is that a lot of whatwas recommended in the OCP, we just
haven't got to. One of thethings that wanted it was you know,
essentially an inventory, and it wantedpartnerships, wanted partnerships with community groups,

(13:43):
and it wanted partnerships with agencies likethe province or NGOs that could bring technical
expertise to telling us what do wegot here, what's our natural capital here?
For example, like the Islands Trusthas done some great or sponsored some
great sensitive ecosystem inventory maps, sothey've mapped the whole island in terms of
what's where you know, where thewetlands, where are the coastal dry,

(14:05):
coastal bluffs, you know, eachof them sort of a natural habitat that
has sort of unique species and uniquepieces to the bow and puzzle. We've
never done anything with that map.It just sits there. You can find
it, you can look at it, but have we wrestled with it.
Have we asked the question what doesit tell us? Have we asked the

(14:26):
question what have we got? Andof what we've got, what's protected,
what's not protected? Those are justbig questions, and you know, I
see some good things have happened onBowen in the partnership piece, but we
need some municipal leadership on that front. You know, inventory and assessment is

(14:46):
one piece. Partnership with community groupsand other agencies to get the technical expertise
is another piece. There are abunch of details that I could sort of
sort of focus on that. Reallyit as opportunities for Bowen to start to
build its own self awareness and selfknowledge as a way to build toward a

(15:11):
vision for going forward. To speakto the community engagement part, because at
a recent council meeting, some ofour council members dismissed public comments as not
being representative of the majority of Bowen'spopulation. There's a couple of questions in
there. Has that always been anissue from the multiple perspectives that you have,

(15:31):
and you're suggesting we need more publicengagement. We need to get off
the couch and be more committed.But if that conversation, or if that
engagement gets shut down, how doyou work around that? Well, you
know my take on that statement,it's a bit of a lazy statement unless
you've got the facts to back upthat statement. I would recommend to politicians

(15:54):
don't say that. You know,if you can specifically point to other sources
of data that tell you that you'reactually hearing something completely different, good bring
that into the public conversation. Butto do that, if it was just
said as a single statement and leftthere hanging, I think whoever said that

(16:15):
should be a bit embarrassed enough seton that. If public engagement is a
tricky business, that's my take.Like when I was mayor, one of
the things we did is we hadthere were sort of community open houses where
people could come and ask any questionthey wanted. You know, we'd show
up council and a bunch of staffbecause staff actually answered most of the questions,

(16:36):
almost all the questions usually because mostof the questions, you know,
that's what staff are for. Theyknow this stuff, and most of them
were sort of you know, issuesoriented what are we doing, how are
we doing it? Etc. SoI mean that's a forum that can be
created, you know, the committee'sstructure is a really important way, though
it tends to operate out of thepublic sphere. You know, it's and

(16:57):
if you're not on the committee,you don't know what it's doing. So
it's important. But you know,my recommendation on that is, don't have
committees that you don't want. Like, the worst thing you can do is
have committees that are just on thebooks and grinding away, but you're not
paying attention to them. You're notactively asking for their input. That's really

(17:18):
counterproductive because when you waste people's times, they remember it, they know it.
You know, review your committees andmake sure they are people there.
They're working on issues that are mainstreamfor you, and you're working on and
you're actively waiting for their advice,you know, when it comes to sort
of just the general council meeting,you know, and you're asking for input

(17:40):
on a particular issue. You know. I like to see engagement. I
like to see two things. Oneis council members querying the public. You
know, if somebody makes a statementand you want further clarification, ask for
it, you know, I meanthat lends a sense that you're paying attention
and you're curious. The second thingI like to see is that after the

(18:03):
public statements have been made, Imean not every time, but some of
the time, is that you've learnedsomething as a counselor you've just listened to
some input, reflect on it,bring it into the conversation around the table.
Yeah. I mean that helps peoplewho have made those comments know that
you were listening, you're paying attention, and that your input is being sort

(18:25):
of digested and is built into sortof the bigger conversation. So I think
there are things you can do better. And I think there's a lot of
conversation right now about transparency and openness, and I think that you know,
I wouldn't say I was a studentof the last council, but I paid
attention because I was involved in someissues. I think it could be done

(18:47):
better. There's room for improvement,and i'd be interested in hearing from candidates
how they're going to do that better. You were talking about this earlier,
and I'm curious if you think weneed to update ROCP. I think we
need to take a good look atwhat we haven't mind out of the existing
OCP, and I would point immediatelyto sort of the whole piece on our

(19:12):
natural assets. When I look atat sort of the what the OCP did
in sort of directing us to managingdealing with sort of our natural environment,
I see progress on the climate changepiece. I see very little other progress
and you know, and you know, to be fair, the last council,

(19:34):
I think they were very directed attrying to deal with, you know,
our climate change footprint. But thedanger of focusing just on that piece
is that the really what you're doingis you're you're focusing on building towards sustained
building. You're making more stuff whichhas its own carbon footprint. You know,

(19:57):
bike path, as good as itis, I got a ton of
ashphall done, a ton of moving, a ton of stuff that had to
be done, and spent money spentto do that. The same thing with
the on island composting a great ideaand I support it completely, but it's

(20:17):
sort of like we're these are engineeredsolutions, you know. One of the
things I do like about where youknow, council, I think has the
Environment Committee working right now on what'scalled natural asset inventory. What we've all
learned over particularly this last council,is that upgrading infrastructure is really really expensive,
and there's a whole move of footacross Canada and through municipalities across Canada

(20:41):
to go oh okay, aging infrastructure, big cost. Is there a way
that we can invest in nature todo the same thing in a more cost
effective way, you know? AndGibson's you know, our neighbor, same
population as Bowen right across the water, has really been a leader in this.
They sit on a groundwater aquifer thatis their water supply, and they

(21:03):
quickly figured out that investing in learningabout that aquifer and monitoring it carefully is
a cost effective way of dealing withtheir water supply as against water treatment any
other engineered option, and it's savingthem a lot of money. And they've
got a they got a plan goingforward. They've also looked at their creeks
from a flood management point of viewand recognize that you know, a little

(21:27):
bit of investment in wetland retention andperhaps some settling ponds upstream helps them as
a super cost effective from the pointof view of flood management downstream where those
streams flow through the community. Boneneeds to do the same. We may
find natural asset solutions, but wemay not that are better than engineered solutions,

(21:49):
but we need to do that work. It's just smart and cost effective.
And oh, by the way,it helps give us a new reason
for protect nature on Bowen and whatit's doing for us. I wonder if
you could help us understand the Island'sTrust. Well, here's a little secret.
If we were actually called by ourproper name, our proper name would

(22:12):
be Bowen Island, Island municipality,island would show up twice Bowen Island.
That's US island municipality. That's thelegal structure that we are. So we
have unique and British Columbia a legalstructure which essentially is a municipal authority but

(22:33):
embedded within essentially the broad sensibilities andat a certain level legal authorities of the
Island's Trust. We are an islandmunicipality. And I'd like more reference to
that because it puts sort of thissort of you could almost call it co
management structure together of municipal authority andIslands Trust. And you know, I'm

(22:56):
really proud of what the Islands Trusthas done for British Columbia throughout the whole
Gulf Islance region. You know,you just have to look at Bowen Island
and compare it to West Vancouver.You just have to look at a Gabriela
and compare it to Nanaimo next store. You just have to look at a
Salt Spring and compare it to theSantich Peninsula next store, and you get
a quick understanding of the vital rolethat the Islands Trust has played over I

(23:22):
don't know forty years, you know, in sort of keeping those communities small
and healthy and avoiding what really theIsland Trust was set up in the first
place, which is just rampant suburbanization. But that's big picture you asked me
about, Like, Okay, today, what's it doing for us? We
have two Island Trust trustees elected everyelection campaign. I'd like those trustees to

(23:45):
tell us more about what's going on. I'd like them to keep us better
informed. That's just general statement,because if we don't know what the Island
Trust is doing for us, thenwe are going to assume it's not doing
much. And if it's not frontand center in our daily lives, then

(24:06):
we are going to assume it's reallynot doing much for us. So to
me, that's like a first step. But what the Islands Trust, to
my mind, has done best isthink big and invest in mapping and inventory
an assessment that we can benefit from. For example, they did eel grass

(24:26):
mapping all through sort of the IslandsTrust They're including the shores of Bonon On.
We didn't have a clue what eelgrass resource we had. We have
really benefited from that, and there'sa whole story about, you know,
the great eel grass transplant efforts thatthe municipality along with partners have been involved
with on Bowen So that was that'ssort of a piece. They did our

(24:48):
sensitive ecosystem inventory mapping back two thousandand seven or something, a long time
ago, but still the best youknow ecosystem mapping done on Bowen Island.
They have, you know, astrategic conservation plan for the entire Island Trust
area including Bowen Island. Sort ofis situated in that we haven't harvested that

(25:11):
in our own efforts to figure outwhat our own conservation vision is for the
island. So to me, that'swhere it's its real strengths are and in
sort of what we learn and theIslands Trustees are sort of key links here
between sort of what other communities aredoing that look like us. We need
to be comparing ourselves to other smallcommunities and you know, catching their creative

(25:33):
sparks and what they're doing well andlearning from that. And that's you know,
a great pathway that's created by theIslands Trust. What I think we
shouldn't count on the Islands Trust todo is be sort of the backstop to
bad behavior on Bowen Island. Weown the show here. We need to
be accountable for governing this place.Our OCP has to be in line with

(25:56):
you know, our op amendments haveto be in line with you know,
ROCP and broader terms of the IslandsTrust. But you know, my observation
of the Islands Trust is that they'revery reluctant to meddle in Bowen affairs,
like we're a prickly community. Likethey're essentially call it what you want,
a senior government, you know.I think the province knows we're a prickly

(26:18):
community too. I think Metro Vancouverknows we're a prickly community. Nobody really
wants to meddle in Bowen affairs andtell us what to do, so they
I think are very reticent to godown that route. So to me the
mature relationship with the Islands Trust.And here's the key detail to me,
done be proactive, Go okay,what do we want from the Islands Trust.
We're in a partnership. Be agood negotiator, go after things,

(26:41):
Be proactive, don't wait and say, well, what did we get?
Well, what do we ask for? Here's the question for Boonen what have
we asked for? And that tome is the central question. And if
we're not asking for things, don'tbe surprised if we're not getting things.
So I'd like, you know,going forward, I want basically a proactive
possible with regards the Islands Trust anda mutual respect that says, hey,

(27:03):
we've got a blessing here, let'sexercise our blessing. This is a good
relationship. So you talked about Prickly, let's talk about Cape Roger Curtis,
Oh, prickly. I believe me. I wear scars from that conversation that
went on from you know, whenI was mayor in two thousand and five
right through until you know I finishedmy term. I mean, we made

(27:26):
a decision on it. We decidednot to go with rezoning. It's a
fascinating area because it holds such beauty, such natural assets, it holds such
a place in the heart of BoneIslanders. It is and it does to
this day. It's just such acentral part of how we define Bone Island,

(27:51):
so it matters to us. Andit's had such a wild history,
you know, of this giant developmentproposed that we just as a community couldn't
swallow to them and essentially retreating intoa period of time where it went forward
as a subdivision. But there wasthis acrimony over the very large docks that

(28:14):
were built there that really, Imean, you look at them and you
go, what are we trying todo here? They continue to puzzle me
in terms of what the land ownersare doing because they're just so invasive,
and yet they are so little used. They just seem to be spec docs,
you know, speculation docks that enhancethe value of the property but really

(28:38):
aren't being used. And you go, wow, isn't that sort of an
odd way to sort of become amember of the community. Anyways, I
say, all that really just toregister the division that the place has created.
We need to get beyond that waybeyond that. It's good to learn
from your history, it's good tolearn that. You know, when Bowen

(29:00):
doesn't like big. You know,a very thoughtful commentator on Bowen Life said
that to me, and it's stuckwith me ever since Bowen doesn't like big.
The National Park initiative was big,we couldn't swallow it. They Cape
Roger Curtis development was big, wecouldn't swallow it. But Cape Roger Curtis

(29:22):
at six hundred and forty acres islike a big piece of real estate.
It's always going to have big issues. And now you know, Metro Vancouver,
you know, and their park proposalis big and we're struggling swallowing it.
Here's my basic take. I totallyget why we're struggling with this issue.
A park, okay, a bigcamping enterprise on that park, Wow,
how is that going to work?And there's a lot of fear.

(29:45):
There's a tremendous amount of fear beingexpressed about scenarios and outcomes right now.
And I totally get that. Andparticularly, you know, when you dump
an idea like that in a newsrelease. We don't do news really leases
on Bowen Island. Anyways, MetroVancouver chose to just sort of dump it
out there as a news release rightin the middle of the busy tourist season,

(30:07):
when ferries were overloaded, and justbefore a municipal election, when it
can be quickly become a super hottopic and supercharged. I have to question
the timing. But nonetheless, onthe other hand, you go, oh,
maybe there is some genius here onthe part of Metro. They went,
Okay, let's throw it out thereand let's watch see what the community
does with it. We can learnsomething because as far as I can tell,

(30:30):
and I might be wrong, butI don't think I am. Metro
Vancouver needs a rezoning to turn thisinto a park, and a rezoning is
the authority of the municipality, andyou're going to need one, two,
three, four councilors out of seven, a majority of council to say yes
to that rezoning. So it's goingto be a decision that is going to

(30:51):
come on to the next council andwill be decided basically by the next council
or the majority of the next council. And we'll either have a con census
on it, or we'll have asplit decision, who knows. But the
point being is that we're going tohave to have a significant amount of public
discussion to do that, and there'sgoing to need to be a lot of

(31:12):
information on the table, a lotof understanding about what the enterprise is all
about. We're going to have tounderstand what the weaknesses of that proposal are
the strengths of that proposal, andit's going to have to be done with
real transparency because you know, Ithink this council didn't get high marks for

(31:32):
transparency, and so there's a It'sa trust issue and government works when the
community trusts it. I mean,that's that's what we all we all aspire
for. Trust is hard won.It's it's hard to hang on to and
that goes both ways. In part, it's not just counsel that you know,
can a road trust, it's it'sthe community. The community can can

(31:55):
be a bit lazy. It cannotpay attention that it can wake up and
go, hey, what's going onand assume that it should be heard when
it wasn't paying attention and should havebeen investing all along. So, you
know, trust is a relationship andit's two way street. Anyways, here's
what the Bowen Island Conservancy is doingin that regard. You know, I'm
not going to speak for the conservancy, but I'm a member of the board,

(32:15):
and we want to get proactive.In other words, we don't want
to be afraid. We want tobe smart, and Bowen Island community needs
to be smart about this. Speakingabout the conservancy, you could say,
we've got a lot to lose.We have a nature reserve there, thirty
two acres that would be direct neighborhoodto this new park, and if this

(32:36):
place is prorly designed and flooded withpeople, it could easily overwhelm all the
protections that we're trying to employ onour nature reserve. So first reaction is
wu. Second reaction is, let'sget proactive. Okay, we're gonna We're
getting in touch with Metro. We'regoing to tell them very clearly what our

(32:58):
concerns are. We're going to tellthem very clearly what we're trying to protect.
In other words, where are wetrying to go with us and what
are our issues? And then wewant to be in a conversation and we
want to be really good listeners andwe want to hear from them what they're
going to do to accommodate our needs, because we're really clear about what we
need and we will judge their proposalbased on our needs. We're also cognizant

(33:24):
that, you know, they couldbe great conservation partners, and we're not
willing to just be fearful. Wewant the best outcome possible. We don't
know what that is, but we'regoing to be at the table. We're
going to work hard with them,We're going to work smart with them,
We're going to listen to them,and we're going to push them towards what

(33:45):
we want to make sure we protectwhat we've got. But they've got a
lot to offer us. The thingI do I really like about Metro Vancouver
is they've been you know, partnerson going on for thirty years. They
have managed Cripton Park and they've managedit really well. And I tell you
during the National Park debate, weheard that loud and clear that the people,
you know, Bowen Island trusted MetroVancouver way more than they did Parks

(34:08):
Canada to run Criptan Park because ParkCanada was looking to basically take over Crypton
Park and people were really comfortable withthe Metro Vancouver they knew and how they
ran that park. So you know, we've got a long term relationship with
Metro Vancouver, and so I likethat, and I know that I know
some of their staff, and Ireally like their staff, and I admire

(34:31):
their conservation commitment. So I'm hopefulthat they can accommodate our interests in fact,
can benefit us by creating a youknow, conservation reserve around us.
But you know, the sticking pointfor sure is camping and what that means
and how that's going to be deliveredand how many Bowen doesn't like big one
hundred campsites is big. That's justthe raw truth of it. So I

(34:55):
speak about the conservancy as an analogyfor where the municipal and my mind needs
to go. Get smart, getprofessional, get in there, be a
good negotiator, and keep the communityinformed of your negotiation. It's got to
be done transparently, because a councilthat tries to cut a side deal in

(35:15):
a back room with Metro and thentries to sell it to the community is
probably going to be playing an uphillbattle. What haven't we talked about that
we should? What's the question thenearest endearest to you, the keeps you
up at night that we haven't tackled? Hope. My observation is the people

(35:36):
that are hopeful that I run intohave two things going for them. They're
working hard on things that matter tothem, and they're doing it in community,
with community for community. In otherwords, you know, it's the
old adage stay local, think global, but stay local. But I might
even cautious about think of global,because you know, it's it's a tough

(35:59):
story sorry out there. And Ifocus my efforts on this community what we
can do because this is where itmatters. This is our contribution to the
global solution. It's doing two things. One is taking care of home place,
and number two, it is sharingwhat we learn here with others.
And that's why you know, Iinvested heavily in the biosphere because I'm not

(36:23):
just a citizen a Bone Island.And I'd like to say better than that,
I am not just a citizen ofknook Lolakum Bowen Island, not Bone
Island. We need to work hardto bring you know, this is a
bare minimum, bare minimum contribution thelanguage of the first peoples to this place.

(36:44):
I don't know whether I'm saying itright. I love Pauline Leabelle's comment
on how her pronunciations of Squamish nationsare. She said, hey, it's
my dialect. That's how I speakit, you know, But I'm trying.
That's you know, it's sort oflike my French. You can tell.
It's not my first tongue anyways.Nuok lolacum beautiful word, nuk lolacumbe.

(37:07):
And that is our place, BowenIsland. So to me, I
go invest here, how are we? How are we taking care of the
good little ship Bowen Island? Andsecondly, I'm a citizen of that,
But I'm a citizen too of thislarger thing called at cts some house sound
at cutsum, you know, beautifulword such a you know, And I

(37:29):
love it because it is one ofthree words that the Squamish nation has for
what we call how sound. Whenthey're paddling into the mouth, it's one
word. When they're paddling out ofhow sound it's another word. So which
just tells me sort of the attentionthey pay to the place they're in.

(37:51):
And you know, I could almostspeak the same of Bowen. You know,
if you're looking north from hood pointinto the Sound, the geography that
you see is a completely different worldthan if you turn at Cape Roger Curtis
and look south out across the straitwhere it's just nothing but the great ocean
in front of you. Anyways,it reminds me of the worlds we straddle.

(38:12):
Back to your point, Dawn Hope, I feel I'm a citizen of
Bowen Nikololicum. I feel like I'ma citizen at Katsam House Sound. That's
why I invested heavily in the BiosphereEnterprise because to me, what the biosphere
has been able to do, andof course it's just in its infancy,
but the formulation of the Biasphere wasfive years in the making and we learned
a ton and what we really triedto do is create the same thing that

(38:37):
Bowen Island has, which is definition. Like the lovely thing about living on
an island is you know, whetheryou live on it or off it,
there's no gray, you know,sharp edges. And what I wanted out
of the Biasphere initiative was a sharpedge to something that I could call at
cut some House Sound, and wedid that. We drew boundaries on the
watershed boundaries to the east and westNorthshom Mountains and on the Sunshine Coast and

(39:01):
then north up the Squamish and Chechamusrivers, and at a certain point we
just went, you know, hey, we're not going to take the whole
watershed that goes way way way upinto the mountains because we want to keep
the marine focused. That the biasphere, you know, communities are. But
I now feel real kinship, andI think people that are investing in the
biosphere feel real kinship between Niklolak andBowen Island, Lions Bay, West Vancouver,

(39:27):
Squamish, Gibson's Gambier Island, likewe're a community. We're a bigger
community that has you know, commoncause for the waters of how Sound and
the rivers that drain into it.So that's where I want to put my
hope. That's where I want topark my hope. And it's active hope.
It's not you know, And Ilove this, and I've got this.
I've got I've got a little sortof catchphrase at the bottom of my

(39:50):
emails that you know, I thoughtI would rotate out and put a new
one in two years ago, andthen a year ago and six months ago,
and I keep looking at it andgoing, you know, Bob,
no, no, no, that'sstill still what matters to me. And
it basically says you know, hopeis not optimism, which expects things to
turn out well, but something rootedin the conviction that there is something good

(40:12):
worth working for. That to meis hope. That's active hope. We
don't know whether we're going to winor lose, but that's not why we're
in the game. You don't goonto the playing field only if you're going
to win. You go onto theplaying field because there's something worth playing for.
And that's where I want to getbow into. What we need to
be as an island is excited andenergized about like the challenges that we've got

(40:35):
and that we've we're better equipped thanprobably any community in Canada or the world
to sort of take it on becausewe're small, we're tight, we've got
great diversity, we're smart, wegot a talent pool that would be the
envy of any community. We needto work together to get there, you
know, and if there's anything I'dlove to see is just more cooperation,

(40:58):
collaboration, partnership at every level.It goes back to one of my first
points, public private partnership, orbetter stated, private public partnership. You
know, Bowen Island is what itis because people have invested over time.
Bowen Island is almost a story ofresistance in the best way I can use

(41:19):
that word resistance we have and thatwas the island that I came to,
that Rosemary and I came to andsort of fell in love with in nineteen
eighty nine, Like we landed onthis island, you know, after the
big jaw dropping view up the soundand me sort of just feeling like,
okay, this is the place weopen the undercurrent. What do we see?

(41:39):
Five pages of letters to the editoragainst a proposal to put a golf
course in Crippent Park. And wejust looked. Rosemary and I looked at
each other, We looked at theundercurrent. We went, woo oooh,
this is a plugged in community.I like this place as sleepy as the
whole place. Look, you know, dog lying in the middle of meinst

(42:00):
type stuff. You know what's hidingthere in the woods is call it what
you want, it's it's resistance.And I think we've been better at resistance
than we have at being visionary.A lot of our if you look at
the original OCP, and that's thewhole story in itself, really built on
a bedrock of good science, theprovince invested. It was really crafty on

(42:22):
the part of the Early Island TrustTrustees of the way they pulled the province
in to invest in an analysis ofBones. Still pretty much the best we've
got done. In the seventies,whole multitude of different agencies were involved in
sort of figuring out how to putdensity on Bone Island. So that was
back in the seventies. We've comeforward largely with a tradition of resisting big.

(42:46):
That's it resisting big. That's sortof the Bone story in so many
ways. And we fought to besmall. So the positive is we fought
to stay small. And you know, when you look at West Vancouver and
you know the whole seat is region, you can say, how have we
done? We've done pretty damn well. You know. I a friend of
mine came up to me at theend of my term as mayor interesting statement

(43:09):
that I had to sort of chewon a bit before I decide whether it
was a criticism or a compliment.But he said to me, he said,
you know, Bob, I thinkyou're going to be remembered more for
what didn't get done as opposed towhat did get done. And you know,
at the time, I sort ofwent, oh, but you know,
then I thought a little more aboutit. And I'm really proud of

(43:30):
that statement, you know, becauseit wasn't just a no no. It
was a discerning no. And Ican say that, you know, for
everything we were involved with, wewent the distance trying to figure out what
the community thought about stuff, andwe tried to bring our own intelligence to
that and chart a path forward.You know, I'm proud of being part

(43:51):
of keeping Bow and small because smallis so integral to function. Small creates
the capacity to know your neighbor,to feel part of a community, to
therefore invest in its success, tocare about its future. That's what small
does for you. And so thatis a piece of the puzzle that is

(44:15):
core. What we need to addto that is really a more proactive approach
to taking stock of what we are, what we've got, and it's the
natural assets I'm focusing on here tosay, how does this little community chart
a path forward against all the youknow, the crosswinds that are coming at

(44:36):
us going forward five years, tenyears, fifteen years. And we need
to pay attention to this thing whichwe love to call sort of a defining
feature of Boeing our nature, andwe need to treat it with respect and
build a deeper connection and understanding ofwhat it needs so that it is a
partner with us as we go forward. It's not enough just to hope that

(45:01):
it's going to be there in twentyyears. So, given what you've been
talking about, that requires leadership.Do any of the candidates that are running
from mayor scanned out to you?Well? Is that a fair question?
Well, I'll answer it in asimple and I think probably in complete way.
But as much as an ex mayorcan do this, I've been trying

(45:22):
to sort of stay out of partof some politics because really my intentions are
like how the community comes together.So I'm interested in who gets elected and
once it's once that council is elected, what it's going to do. And
so I like, I love theconversations down that you're spawning here and the
richness that that can sort of createto us as a community who sort of

(45:43):
wrestling through this stuff. But Iwould say there's like one interesting thing has
happened so far to me personally inthis whole discussion or this whole sort of
election period, and that is Igot a call from Andrew Leonard, and
he said, hey, former,I'm interested in talking to you, just
picking your brains about, you know, your thoughts and stuff. So we

(46:07):
went for a walk and it turnedout to be a really really interesting walk.
And you know, I was reallyimpressed with Andrew for a bunch of
reasons, like one, he's young, and holy Moses, do we need
succession planning on this island. Likethere's a lot of gray hairs that have
been running to show and for goodreason. And we got a great talent

(46:30):
pool of gray haired folks and I'mone of them, and I'm proud of
them, and that gray haired contingencyis should be treated as where they deserve
it. You know, the eldersof the community. We need our elders
because in so many ways they've gottime and background to really sort of help
us out as a community. Andthat's been the bone waigh for a long

(46:52):
time. But when someone young showsup, who's smart, thoughtful, energized,
charismatic, I pay attention. Andthat's what I see in Andrew.
And you know, I like thefact that he so clearly sees the opportunity
Bowen represents, which is the samething I see is like if not here

(47:13):
where, you know, if alittle community with you know, the added
value of a city nearby and thetalent pool that that brings you because of
the commuter population or the remote workerpopulation and given them natural backdrop that we
have, and just the sanctuary thisplace is if a community like us can't

(47:34):
sort of get it together and reallybe a leadership community, like who can?
And I heard him say that,and I heard him say it early,
and I heard him say it withoutany prompting from me, and I
went, okay, bingo. Ilike that, And I also like,
like his basic sensibility is leadership sensibilitythat I you know, when I think

(47:57):
about it, I sort of seeit flowing out of you know, he
comes out of this nonprofit leadership sector, you know, working with in a
camp setting, so there's a naturalconnection with disadvantaged kids. So he's got
that tuning to you know, thedisadvantaged, you know, the minority point
of view, the importance of bringingvoices into the community. So I just

(48:20):
you know, I heard sort ofa real sort of connecting both in what
he said and his responses to sortof my own sort of senses of priority.
And I also since he was agood listener. He was just so
enough said. But you know thatleft me feeling like, Okay, I've
got I've got a mayor candidate thatI can get behind him. So I

(48:43):
mean that's but I haven't been astudent of the process. I you know,
I honestly haven't paid attention yet tosort of who all is running and
who's in and who's out. Andyou know, I was sad to see
a person like Dave Hawking not run. I just thought Dave Headery, you
know, huge amount to offer tothe community, et cetera. But anyways,
I totally get you know, whenretirement calls and you just need to

(49:07):
sort of step aside and find abetter way to put your energy out.
So anyways, that's sort of mypartial reflections on where we go. But
we got a long way to go. That's the other thing that I really
like about where we're going is that, boy, I don't remember an election
period that got off to such afast start with so much conversation going on,
and you're part of it, LikeI just see that this is sort

(49:30):
of this is what a small communityhas to do well. If we don't
do our election periods well, wesort of shoot ourselves in the foot big
time, and the only way todo them well is to talk a lot
and in multiple forums, in multipleways. Some of those have got you
know, person to person, andso I look forward to where things are
going to go and unfold. Ireally want to thank you, Bob for

(49:52):
spending so much time with us andsharing so many great perspectives. I know
you're anxious to get into your kayak, but heartfelt thanks. You know.
I have to say you're a calminginfluence. Don. Thanks Bob. Thanks
Don. We've been speaking with BobTurner, the former mayor of Boone Island,
conservationist activists and a really good filmmaker. You can usually find Bob and

(50:15):
his kayak filming and you can seehis amazing work on YouTube. If you're
like me and relatively new to theisland, I hope you found Bob's perspective
and background helpful. The Boone IslandPodcast is produced on the territories of the
Muscreham, Squamish and Slay with ToothNations. Our gratitude and thanks to them
and to the many people we've beenable to speak to, and of course

(50:36):
to you. Thanks for listening.I'm Don Schaeffer. It can be duct