Jim Acosta

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show, and it's another day
that ends and why in the Epstein Gate cover up? Today,
Donald Trump told the Justice Department to investigate anybody but
himself when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein. Here to discuss
is investigative journalist Vicky Ward. Vicky, great to see you.
And I guess remember that Epstein email that called Trump
the dog that hasn't barked? Well, the dog you could say,

(00:23):
is barking a lot today. I guess we should just
dive right into this. A lot of things to talk about.
I guess, first of all, your reaction to Trump saying,
you know, he wants the DOJ to investigate Bill Clinton
and Larry Summers, but you know, not himself, which I
guess you know there's there's social post there anybody, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I wasn't surprised by that, Jim, because I've reported this
that back in twenty and fifteen, when you know Trump
was running for president. The first time around to twenty
fifteen was when Virginia Roberts allegations against Prince Andrew. I

(01:06):
mean she actually identified Prince Andrew by name. She hadn't
done that before, and she came out with claims that
she made in a class action lawsuit Trump. When Trump
heard all about that, and what I was wondering aloud

(01:28):
to his campaign staff, who included a guy called Sam Numberg,
if his previous relationship with Epstein would be a problem
for him, He's Actually his immediate reaction to Sam was, oh, well,
Epstein is a much bigger headache for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

(01:48):
Hillary Clinton was obviously running against him for president at
the time. Then Epstein is for me and I, you know,
and anyway, I chucked Epstein out of Mara Lago, So
that was how he dealt with the issue you back
in twenty fifteen. So it's almost surprising that's taken them
this long to get to the same point in this

(02:09):
cycle about Epstein.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Everything cyclical, I guess to some extent, But I mean,
the other thing we should mention that, I guess Pam Bondi,
the Attorney General, has said she will assign and investigated
to this prosecutor to this, so stay tuned for developments
on that front. It's another instance where you know, Trump
is just ordering the DOJ to do things, which is
another thing that we could talk about some other time.

(02:31):
But let's talk about the April twenty eleven email, because Vicky,
you've investigated Epstein for so many years. You've broken a
lot of stories, You've uncovered a lot of stuff. I mean,
when these emails came out, I thought they were pretty
explosive because here we have it in black and white.
You know this April twenty eleven, this is before Donald
Trump becomes a candidate for office. He was sort of
dabbling in politics back then. He was the birther stuff.

(02:55):
He was going on talk shows and talking about but
he wasn't a presidential candidate. But Jeffrey Epstein said to
Glaine Maxwell, I Win didn't not realize that the dog
that hasn't barked a is Trump victim redacted. Spent hours
at my house with him, and he has never once
been mentioned police chief, et cetera. I'm seventy five percent there,

(03:16):
Gallaine Maxwell says, I've been thinking about that your thoughts
on this because there aren't many I mean, there aren't
many plausible explanations that sound good to me for Donald Trump.
But what do you think? What did you take away
from this? Because you know this much better than I do.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So I think you have to connect that email with
one he sends himself much later in two thousand and nineteen.
But I want, you know, I think context is really important.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I want to show that one too, But yeah, go ahead, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
No, no, So let's take them in order. The twenty
eleven email to Gilen Maxwell in April is right after
the main on Sunday, and then the Daily Mail have
published that photograph of Virginia Roberts with Prince Andrew and
is you know, arm around her waist and allegations, you know,

(04:16):
the allegations that were sort of a familiar with now
that Epstein, you know, pimped her out. But she doesn't
specifically name Prince Andrew, and she doesn't name the people
she says he pimped her out to. And in the

(04:37):
second article, Trump is mentioned, along with Naomi Campbell and
other people just as people who were in Epstein's orbit.
So Maxwell came out swinging in the wake of those
two articles, accusing publicly accusing Virginia Roberts of lying, and

(05:02):
various other people who were named, including the former Israeli
Israeli Prime Minister Erho Barock. You know, they back then,
believe it or not, they had spokespeople who did talk
to the mail on Sunday, said yes, we know Jeffrey Epstein,
you know knows Jeffrey Epstein doesn't know anything about Virginia Roberts.

(05:25):
Trump said nothing. I mean, arguably there was nothing to say.
But as we know, well, you know Trump, Trump in
those days was on speed dial to places like Page six, right,
you know, you know it was New York real estate
Trump with you know, Trump was Trump and.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
So.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And we also do know at this point that Jeffrey
Epstein didn't want Gilen Maxwell to weigh into this publicly.
I mean, it's one of the things quickly sent emails
to her and wish she wouldn't do it. He himself
remained dead silent, and so I think when he's you know,

(06:11):
he's noting that Trump is staying quiet, which is not usual.
But he then in this email then goes on to
talk about the Palm Beach police chief. Right, he's seventy
five percent there. Well, and I also think Jim, just

(06:31):
to put context, it's worth remembering that in two thousand
and nine, which is two years before all of this,
Trump has already got on the phone, unlike any of
the guys the other bold face names who are hanging
around with Epstein. Trump volunteers to get on the phone

(06:54):
to Brad Edwards, then, a not well known lawyer in
Florida who's bringing together the Epstein victims in a class
action suit because they're going to sue because the plea
deal that was the non prosecution agreement was done behind
their backs. And when Brad Edwards reaches out to speak

(07:14):
to Trump via his counsel Alan Garton, and I said, no, no,
you don't need to subpoena him. He'll jump on the
phone with you. And he was the only one of
all these well known, high profile men and whose name's
been kind of all known by now. And Trump gets
on the phone and says to Brad Edwards, you know
how can I help? And he says, yes, you did

(07:37):
used to hang out with Epstein. He tells him this
story that emerged again in the emails that came out
a couple of days ago. He tells him how he
stood in Epstein's living room in Palm Beach and then
he looked out the window and there was a group
of remarkably young girls and he asked Epstein about it,

(07:58):
and Epstein said, yeah, part of my mentorship program, and
you know, Trump, I mean went out of his way,
according to Brad Edwards, He's written about this in his
book To Be Helpful. Edwards also says that as time
ticked by and he interviewed more and more of these

(08:21):
witnesses and more and more survivors, he reckoned that Trump
hadn't quite told him the full extent of his relationship
with Jeffrey Epstein. But I've always wondered, I mean, you know,
Donal Trump's very smart. I mean, to be willing to
give up time to jump on the phone to talk
about Jeffrey Epstein in two thousand and nine is an

(08:42):
unusual thing to have done. Why did he do that?
Was he trying to get ahead of a situation or
was it because there was such bad blood between these
two guys us stage. As you read, you know, reading
all of the emails that were released two days ago,

(09:05):
it did seem as if Jeffrey Epstein was obsessed with
Donald Trump. Yeah, more than fifty percent of these emails
were gossip and speculation and questions about Trump, And given
that they hadn't actually spoken since two thousand and four,

(09:27):
you had to wonder.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Allegedly, Yeah, right, we allegedly, but.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
You had to wonder why. And that's why I think
when you think about the dog didn't Bark email in
twenty eleven and mentions the Palm Beach police chief in
that email, and then you go to the one that
he writes in two thousand and nineteen January two and nineteen,

(09:56):
he writes, Yeah, he writes this email to himself and
then forwards it to Michael Wolfe, and we know that
Michael Wolfe is looking he's Trump's biographer. He writes, you know,
a vast number of books on Trump, and that's very
useful for Jeffrey Epstein because he, you know, uses all
the information Michael tells him. You know, he thinks that's
helpful for him. He then goes and tells the Russians.

(10:19):
But Michael, we know we've seen is wants anything on Trump.
And we've also seen in the emails that Epstein says,
I'm the one who can bring Trump down. And January
twenty nineteen is right after the Miami Heralds excellent series

(10:40):
by Julie k Bran, Perversion of Justice, has been published.
It's right around the time that Ben Sas then the
Senator for Nebraska is joining with Republican is joining with
the Democrats. The beginning the drum beat saying why has
nothing been done about Jeffrey Epstein is just a few

(11:01):
months before he is, in fact, finally going to be arrested.
And so I think it's fascinating that he spews all
of this out, and some of it the first half
is sort of defending.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Himself, right, But this is the second part.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's all about this business deal that supposedly caused the
rift between the two men, and yes, this battle for
this house that was going into bankruptcy. Epstein wanted it

(11:43):
to buy him for himself. Told asked Trump to come
see it because he wanted suggestions for how to, you know,
where to put a swimming pool and reconfigure it. And
the next thing he knows, they're in the auction and
Trump out bids him and gets the house in auction
for forty five million dollars. And Epstein, in his telling

(12:08):
of this to Michael Wolfe, says, you know, there has
problems with that because Trump doesn't have forty five million dollars.
He has nothing. Now you have to question how did
Jeffrey Epstein know that? And he says, given that he
has nothing, He then begins to question the things that

(12:29):
happen next, which is that basically Trump puts it on
a market at such a ridiculously high price that no
one's going to touch it. But it will then justify
why a Russian oligarch, who's one of the few people
who wouldn't probably care about paying such a high price
a few years later comes in buys it for one

(12:52):
hundred million dollars. So I think you can see that
the insinuation from Epstein is this money laundering? Is is
you know, did he buy it for the Russian oligarch?
And then he questions how did Trump disclose this on
his tax forms? Because did he he declare the capital

(13:16):
gain on this? Okay, So that's what he's that is
what he's saying in this email to Michael. He's basically saying,
go away and have a look at this. I will
say something else, Jim, I suspect that he talks to that.
He says, there were only three people involved in the

(13:38):
bankruptcy of this house. The other is a guy called
Pulty p u l T yow that that is in
fact pul T p u l T e jeff could
not spell.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
I saw that, and I was wondering.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Connect that is either the father or the grandfather of
the man in the news running Fanny May.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
He's suggesting people like Eric Swalwell for investigation.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Exactly. Yes, so, but I think, you know, this is
clearly Jeffrey Epstein telling Michael go after Trump. This is
this is what I have on him. But I know
from Michael Wolfe, because he and I have talked, we've
done interviews on substack, that that the reason Epstein was

(14:34):
so obsessed with Trump was because he believed that it
was Trump who had gone to Michael Wright, writer the
Palm Beach police chief, right after this fight over the
Bankruptcycording to Michael Wolfe, Epstein instead that he threatened Trump

(14:57):
that he was going to expose his finances. Well, I mean,
I have a problem with that because what was he
going to expose and to whom sou that he was
going to expose expose Trump's finances? But I don't know
how he was going to, you know, I mean, and
the idea of Jeffrey Epstein phoning up I don't know

(15:18):
a reporter at the Wall Street Journal kind of defies belief.
But but his working Epstein's working theory was that it
was Trump who tipped off the Palm Beach police, and
it is true. The Washington Post did report that two
weeks after this that this has sale. The Palm Beach

(15:41):
Police chief did receive a tip about young girls going
in and out of Jeffrey Epstein's Wow.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Wow, Yeah, there's a I mean, there's a lot to
unpack there. The other issue, too, is is that you know,
just the other day, when Caroline Love the White House
Press sector is trying to knock this down, she said,
you know, Trump got rid of Jeffrey Epstein because he
was a creep and a pedophile. Is that is somehow

(16:10):
not not in line with the timeline. I should say,
can we play that, and then I want to play
this other thing, and then we'll talk about it and then.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
Have your statement about the new Epstein emails that have
been released by Hels Democrats. Separate from why you believe
the emails were made to Blake, can you address their substance?
Did the president ever spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house
with a victim?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that
President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has
always said is that he was from Palm Beach, and
so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at
mar A Lago until President Trump kicked him out because
Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was a creep.
And this email you refer to with the name of

(17:00):
a victim that was unredacted now.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
And has about here and she says that Trump kicked
Epstein out because he was a liar and creek. But
this is what Trump was asked in twenty nineteen whether
he knew what Epstein was doing with underage girls. And
here's what Trump said in twenty nineteen. This is at
the White House during his first term.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
No, I had no idea. I had no idea. I
haven't spoken to him in many, many years, but I
didn't have no idea.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
So he says he has no idea. He kicked out
Jeffrey Epstein from mar A Lago, Caroline Love, it says,
for being a creep and a pedophile. So that means
those two things don't No, they don't work, They don't
squeare they they did. There's been a lot of lying
about the what Trump's knowledge of the behavior was of

(17:55):
the criminal behavior was.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes. It is worth pointing at Rginia Jeffrey's memoir, which
has only just been published, that there is a footnote
in which she herself refers to the fact that in
twenty twenty a book reported that Trump kicked Epstein out

(18:17):
of Mara Lago not because of her, but because because
Epstein was hitting on the teenage daughter of a member.
And so it's worth I think noting that that's something
that Virginia Jeffrey wound up believing that why Donald Trump
can't remember his own history on this is you knowstract yes,

(18:43):
it is. It's very strange.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
In the April twenty eleven email, you know, can somebody
explain me why he was spending hours at the house
with a victim? And it's been reported in the White
House alleged that the name that's redacted there is Junia
Duphray's name, But I until I see the email unredacted,

(19:05):
I don't know that that is the case. And do
we have any is there is that still a question
that hangs in your mind? You know, what is this
all about?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Well, I mean, I'm going to come back to the money.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Jim, you think it's still come back.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Because because because you know, at this point.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Could come back, because could.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Come back, yes, because because Epstein does claim and I
can't remember at this point. I've read so many emails,
whether it's in this batch of emails or on previous
batch of emails. You know he and you do have
to remember Estein was a complete liar. I mean, no
one knows that better than me. I mean, and to
sit three months and months.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Of it, but the.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
But he claimed that he had saved Trump from bankruptcy
and that he was a financial advisor to Trump in
much the same way that he was a Leslie Wexner
and to Leon Black. And so you know, one can
imagine in that scenario, but that Trump might pop along

(20:08):
to Jeffrey Epp student's living room in Palm Beach to
have a chat. I mean, that's that's not so extraordinary.
But again, it's the whole that, you know, it's the
whole idea. They're sitting there, there are all these girls around,
and we know we've got the documentary evidence of how
they all held around at parties with you know, lots

(20:29):
of models around. It's it's you know, I guess one
can see why Donald Trump, you know, doesn't like the
imagery that all of this just you know, it keeps
putting out there. I mean, it's it's kind of it's
not the imagery he wants us to be thinking about.

(20:50):
He wants us thinking about his new ballroom.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, and other things. Right, And VICKI, the other one
last thing I wanted to ask you about is Steve
And he shows up in these documents and in these
text exchanges with Jeffrey Epstein, and you know, media, the
folks that at Media Matters, they're reporting this and I
had seen this mentioned elsewhere that there's also the issue
that Steve Bannon may have had what some fifteen hours

(21:17):
of video footage of interviews with Jeffrey Epstein that he
did back at twenty nineteen. I mean, this is somebody
else who probably had an extra grind with Donald Trump.
Steve Bannon was fired by Donald Trump after Charlesville. Bannon
was the chief strategist at the White House, was fired
in the aftermath of that, and so there was some
bad blood. But then they reunited and you know, he

(21:38):
became an advisor to Trump after that. But there's it's
strange that Bannon is in the middle of all of this.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, so this actually has been written by another Michael Wolfe,
and a lot of people missed it because it was
in I think, if not the last book, but the
penultimate book that Michael wrote, which was as a chapter
right at the end, and it kind of didn't gel
with the rest of the book, and I think a

(22:05):
lot of people miss it. But he does describe how
Bannon and Michael and Epstein's attorney, Read Wangotten would all
get together and, believe it or not, coach Epstein for
his great comeback. They coached him to appear on sixty
Minutes And you know, yes, was this the wisest thing

(22:26):
for Steve Bannon to be doing? I would suggest not.
I mean, I know Steve I did back in the
day at one point say to Bannon I had heard
that he was maybe going to even get on a
plane with Epstein. And actually in the emails you see
that Epstein says, you've got to travel, and I did

(22:49):
say to Bannon, don't go anywhere near Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Wow. Yeah, Well it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like,
but VICKI, it sounds to me though we have more
to uncover. It's the reason why the Epstein files have
to be released, and we're not going to know the
full story until they're until they're released, But always appreciate
you coming on and diving into this stuff. I'm sure
we'll do it again. I'm sure something else will pop

(23:15):
up and want to do it again. But I saw
your your video about that twenty nineteen email that Epstein
sent himself, and I thought that was fascinating. So nice
work is always, Vicky, great to talk to you. Thank
you so much, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Jen.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
All right, let's quickly switch gears. Let's go to Dave Ehrenberg,
our friend and legal analyst. There's Dave as always great
to see you. I mean, let's dive into the to
the topic that everybody's been talking about over the last
twenty four hours. More than that is Jeffrey Epstein and Dave.
These emails, these documents that have emerged. I means it

(23:49):
takes your breath away. The documents that the Democrats first
put out yesterday morning, Wednesday morning, we're pretty staggering. I mean,
there's the there's the April twenty eleven email. We're showing
it right now where Jeffrey Epstein says to Glene Maxwell
that Trump is the dog that hasn't barked and that
he had spent hours at his house with one of

(24:13):
the victims, and Glene Maxwell replies to that by saying, yeah,
I've been thinking about that. I mean, that is bad.
As bad as that is, there's a lot more to it.
And the Republicans on the committe who controlled that committee,
I guess they got so fired up they decided to
just unleash, you know, twenty thousand documents and emails and
so on, and what. I don't know if they meant

(24:34):
to do this or this was inadvertent on their part,
but one of the emails that they released the Republicans
released is one of them is from Jeffrey Epstein to
his lawyer Kathy Rummler saying, I know how dirty Donald is,
and I mean it's just And this is in twenty eighteen,
you know, when Trump is president. The first time your

(24:55):
thoughts on all this, Dave.

Speaker 6 (24:57):
Well, that email, the first one you mentioned about Trump
is the dog that did not bark. That came out
in twenty eleven. That was right right well before he
was running for president. That exactly That shows like why
live then like people said, well, he wanted to lie
because Trump was president. He wasn't president, He wasn't even

(25:20):
a credible candidate for president then, So that's why you
have to say, like why would he write that? Now
in the emails, The Republicans have one argument, which is truthful,
which is there's nothing from a legal standpoint, that indicates
any criminal conduct by Donald Trump.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 6 (25:39):
But there's a lot of smoke there, and it does
raise legitimate questions about how much Trump knew about Epstein's
criminal activities. Remember, Epstein wrote in one of the emails
that Trump spent hours at his house with one of
the victims. The Republicans then said, well, it was Virginia Jeffrey,
it was redacted.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Well, we're not sure.

Speaker 6 (25:59):
We don't know if that was Virginia Jewfree And if
it was Virginia do you don't.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Know, we don't know. That's right. I was going to
you know, I'm so glad you made that point because
this has been on my mind too, is that you know,
first of all, how disgusting is it that they're well,
we're just going to put the name out there, it's
Virginia Gewfrey and let's say it is her name that's
been redacted in that email. We're talking about an email
conversation that went on fourteen years ago. It is isn't

(26:23):
it quite possible that, I mean, Maxwell and Epstein had
lots of underage girls who were involved in all of
this at that point. They're they're mixing up the names.
I mean, you just don't know. I mean it just like,
why would Donald Trump be spending hours at his house
to begin with?

Speaker 6 (26:44):
Well, you know, this is where it gets back to
their friendship. And Trump is trying to gaslight us by
saying this is all democratic hoax when he was good
friends with Epstein and then they did have a falling
out and instead of Trump acknowledging that and saying, you know,
radical transparency just unleashed the files, he is twisting arms

(27:04):
to an extent that is surprising even to me. To
take Lauren Bobert into the situation room and said, you
can't vote to.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
Release the files.

Speaker 6 (27:12):
Well, like, Trump may not be guilty of anything, but
sure acting guilty.

Speaker 5 (27:17):
Right, it's not the crime as a cover up.

Speaker 6 (27:19):
It's making us wonder, what's this about? Why are you
protesting too much? And then there are other emails that
showed that. He said Jefson said he knew Trump. Of
course he knew about the girls. Now what does that mean?
That needs and fleshed out, So we don't know. But
all this stuff, the arm twisting, the emails. Now you

(27:40):
see when Trump is saying, don't release the files, it
looks less like a political calculation and more like a
cover up.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, and the New York Times reported this as mister
Trump's presidential campaign gained traction. In December twenty fifteen, Epstein
asked Landon Thomas Junior than a New York Times reporter, quote,
would you like to see photos of Donald and girls
and bikinis in my kitchen? It is unclear whether Epstein
actually possessed such photos. Thomas, who has not worked at

(28:08):
the Times since twenty nineteen, said Epstein never provided them.
Epstein also told him about a time when he said
Trump was so focused quote so focused on watching young
women in the swimming pool that he bumped into a door,
leaving his nose print on the glass. And so you know,
this is, you know, one of the things that the

(28:28):
White House has said repeatedly. And Caroline Lovett I believe
she said it at the briefing on Wednesday was oh, well,
you know, he kicked him out of mar Lago because
he thought he was a creep. The emails do not
indicate that Donald Trump thought Jeffrey Epstein was a creep.

Speaker 6 (28:46):
Well, there's the timeline, and that's where it gets confusing, because, right,
it could be true that at some point there Trump
was told and the story goes down here in Palm Beach,
that there was a member of mar Lago who complained
to Trump that Epstein was creeping on his underage daughter,
and then Trump banned Epstein. Epstein says, that's not true.

(29:07):
I was never a member of mar A Lago. No,
that's that's not the story. The story is that you
were banned. You can go to mar A Lago without
being a member. But then he was banned, and then
there was a story that no, it wasn't about that,
it was about a property dispute. I don't know the details,
but I've heard both stories. And that's where Trump should
come out and just say he was a creep.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
I ended it.

Speaker 6 (29:25):
And then the key part is release the documents. As
long as these documents are kept secret, this story ain't
going away. It's only going to get worse. And you
know it's funny, Jim, the email that you read about
Trump's knows being on the glass door. That wasn't provided
by the Democrats, that was provided by the.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Republicans, right exactly.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
You know what I was thinking about this. There's when
you're a lawyer.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
You can provide documents, you can try to withhold him
under certain rules, or you can give them everything. You
can love it too much, Like it's like when you
love legis too much, put three hundred more pages of
legislation in there and just bury the bill under its
own weight.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
Well, same thing.

Speaker 6 (30:05):
As a lawyer, you can just say we're going to
give you the whole trove and good luck finding needles
and haystacks. Well, it didn't take long for the media
to find meals in haystacks. And I think another part
of it is I don't think the politicians on the committee,
the Republicans read through the twenty thirty thousand pages, so
when they submitted these documents, they didn't know what was
in it.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, I think the likely scenarios incompetence explains why they
released all of that stuff. But thank thank you very
much for doing that I appreciate it. And there's a
Thanksgiving one too. There's an email that references Thanksgiving, not
that one. I think maybe that's that's the April twenty
eleven one.

Speaker 6 (30:44):
Um.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Well, anyway, if we pop it up on screen, I
can read it to you. But it just what it
shows is there's I think this was about Trump and Epstein,
maybe spending Thanksgiving together. We can find that one, we
can show, but the familiarity between these two men, and
you know, Donald Trump has tried and tried and tried
to make it sound as though, you know, this is

(31:07):
just some guy, it's some creep he kicked out of
his club, and it's just the lies don't work. And
Robert Garcia, the ranking member on the House Overside Committee,
was saying to me and other folks, you know, there's
more to come. There's more coming. And Dave, isn't it
the case that we're not What was even that large
tranche of documents that came from the House Overside Committee

(31:28):
Republicans like twenty thousand documents, and even I was going
through them today and it's it's nuts. There's all kinds
of stuff in there that's that's not even the full thing.
There's there, apparently his video, there's pictures.

Speaker 6 (31:40):
Well, that's why Trump's working so hard to keep it secret.
I mean, it must be something else in there that's
really bad, and it I just this was such an
unforced error that now you know, we were all waiting
with bated breath of step by step, drip by drip
of what's coming out.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
It didn't have to be like this.

Speaker 6 (32:01):
And now he's put his own members in a tough position.
They're going to have to vote to release the files.
When that goes to the floor of the House, those
members are going to have to go back home and
explain to their constituents why they try to protect Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
Right, that is not a good vote.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
To take if you want to vote to prevent the
public from looking at the Epstein file.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, and here's that Thanksgiving one. You know, it says here,
let's see here, hope today is fun for you? Fun
went here back in NYC all next week. And then
this goes back forth between Jeffrey Epstein and somebody named

(32:44):
Faith Kates. I don't know who that is, but it says, Okay,
Dylan will want to see you. I always want to
see you. Where are you having Thanksgiving? Faith, asks e Va.
Epstein says, that means Glenn check on his record. I
don't know what that means. But this goes on and
on and on. He's such a snooze. Who else is
down there? And it says Dave, David Faisal Hansen and

(33:07):
then Trump? And so now what it appears to say
here and I can't say it conclusively? Says that because
I mean, as you, Dave, you're an attorney, you probably
would want to read this email to somebody and ask
what does this mean? Does this mean that Trump was
having Thanksgiving with Jeffrey Epstein?

Speaker 5 (33:25):
What I do with that?

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Twenty says November twenty seventeen. This is after he is president.

Speaker 6 (33:30):
See see, What to me is that I will give
some of these folks a pass. If they were hanging
out with Epstein before he was a registered sex offender.

Speaker 5 (33:40):
Once he was.

Speaker 6 (33:41):
Charged and convicted of crimes and had to register as
a Level three sex offender, the highest designation in New
York and Florida, then.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Why are you still friends with this guy? Why are
we hanging out with this guy?

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Right?

Speaker 6 (33:53):
That was two thousand and eight, So I'm not giving
anyone to pass that, and this was supposed to be
a democratic conspiracy, right, That's what the Margine Taylor Greens
of the world were like, begging to release the files. Well, well,
we also found from the emails were that Bill Clinton
never went to Epstein Island. But yet there are emails
correspondence between Epstein and Steve Bannon, one of the folks

(34:16):
who was like release the files and theocratic conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Bannon was working for Trump as his chief strategist at
the White House for part of twenty seventeen, and then
even though he got fired by Trump, kind of remained
in the Trump orbit and was an informal advisor to him,
sort of off and on. They would fight, he would
be an advisor, then he wouldn't be an advisor. But
he remained in his orbit almost all the way until
the end of his first term, and he remained so

(34:40):
to this day. Is my understanding informally here and there.
You know, why isn't Steve Bannon saying, dude, you're a creep,
get out of here. You know, I don't want to
know more emails from you, man. Stop They continue to
have these conversations. It it mixed me. I'm not even
I'm not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV,
but I I would definitely want to sit down with

(35:01):
some of these people who are mentioned to this, go
through these emails and ask what is this all about.

Speaker 6 (35:06):
I'd love it, including Michael Wolfe, journalist who's giving yeahy
Epstein pr advice and trying to give him leverage over
Trump like he's his lawyer or something.

Speaker 5 (35:16):
I'm like, dude, this guy's a pedophile. What are you doing.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, well, Michael was trying to write books, and I
guess that was that maybe that he would say that
that was what he was doing. But yeah, I mean
there was that email where they're talking. I think it's
December of twenty fifteen. This is after Trump has already
announced that he's running for president. He's waging a campaign
for the presidency for the first time, and you know,

(35:40):
Michael Wolfe is coaching Epstein on you know, what they
should say to each other back and forth. Yeah, this
is it right here. I hear CNN, this is Michael Wolfe.
I hear planning that as Trump tonight about his relationship
with you, either on air or in a scrum afterwards.
Michael understands how it works in the business. And then
Jeffrey Epstein says, if we were able to craft an
answer for him, what do you think it should be?

(36:03):
And Michael says, I think you should let him hang himself.
If he says he hasn't been on the plane or
to the house, then that gives you a valuable pr
and political currency and goes on and on and on.
But what it suggests, if I'm not mistaken, Dave, is
that there was still some kind of relationship between Epstein
and Trump in this late twenty fifteen time period.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
I mean, that's that's what it sounds like, you know.

Speaker 6 (36:33):
But that's why you need to release the files, because
that's what it sounds like, that they had some communication
and then Epstein and then you see the end where
Will said no where I'm sure he'll say, Epstein, terrific guy.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
He's what it says at the end of the at
the end of the email, I can read it if
if we want to blow it up on screen for folks,
but it says that this is all you know, Trump
would write this off as political correctness. That would have
no place in a Trump regime. I think is yeah,
you know, of course, it is possible when asked, he'll
say Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a
raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which

(37:09):
is to be outlawed in a Trump regime. I mean,
this is Michael and Jeffrey sounding like yeah, Trump could
say something like that in December of twenty fifteen. It's
just unreal stuff. And remember that there's that famous New
York Magazine article from two thousand and two where Trump
talks about Jeffrey Epstein and talks about what a great

(37:31):
guy he is, but that he likes ladies on the
younger side. He likes women on the younger side. And
here are the Steve Bannon texts that you were talking about,
Dave Bannon and Epstein going back and forth via texts allegedly,
according to the documents.

Speaker 6 (37:46):
That were released, this is the case of the dog
chasing the car. You had Bannon and Trump and Mague,
Dan Bongino and Cashpitel all saying release the files, released
the list, this is the biggest conspiracy and we're going
to get to the bottom of it, QAnon, And now

(38:08):
look what's coming out.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
This is really crazy.

Speaker 6 (38:11):
And when they say, well, why did the Democrats, you know,
try to release this. Why they all of a sudden
care now, it's because it's always been a Republican obsession.
The Democrats were never obsessed about this because we knew
it wasn't a democratic conspiracy. And Republicans are the ones
who made this an issue. This thing probably would never
become an issue had it not been one of the
key conspiracy points that Trump used throughout his whole campaign.

Speaker 5 (38:34):
And that's why it's not going away.

Speaker 6 (38:37):
That's why you can't just blame it on a democratic hoax,
because the Republicans are the ones waiting for the information
they were promised.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Right, They're the conspiracy theorists. And then when you know,
they get into office, people are like, Okay, well tell
us about the damned conspiracy theory. Let's see some documents,
let's see some evidence of this. And then all of
a sudden they clam up. And it wasn't until Elon
Musk was it. Earlier this year, over the summer, we said,
the reason why the files have been kept a secret

(39:05):
is because Donald Trump is in them. And that was
when they started to put their guards up over at DOJ,
FBI White House. The DOJ put that memo out saying
nothing to see here, please disperse, And it's been a
nightmare for them ever since.

Speaker 5 (39:23):
Exactly.

Speaker 6 (39:24):
Yeah, they're never going to get beyond this until they
release the files. And I don't think they're going to
release the files as long as Trump is president.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Here's what I predict.

Speaker 6 (39:33):
I think the House will pass this discharged petition to
release the files. The Senate I think will pass it.
They're like thirteen Republican centers up for reelection. How are
they going to go back to the constituents and say
that they voted against transparency in Epstein? And then you'll
have the most dramatic veto in history, maybe where Trump's

(39:54):
going to have to veto this or accept it, and
then if it does get over it in over his veto,
or if he doesn't veto it, then it'll go to
the DOJ. And there are ways that the Just Department
could reveal. Yeah, they could, because there are court orders
apparently in place that protects some of the leged co conspirators.

(40:15):
According to reports, there are rules on not disclosing information
about victims, and so they could say, you know, anything
involving a victim.

Speaker 5 (40:22):
Not only are we going to redact it. We're going
to not reveal it.

Speaker 6 (40:25):
We're going to keep it in secret, and so we'll
see what happens. That's why I don't think we're going
to get the whole file while Trump is still president.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
And you're less optimistic than I am. I think it's
quite possible that you'll have you won't have thirteen senators
who will go along with the Democrats, and that you
will see somebody in the Senate try to block this
on behalf of Donald Trump. And one has to think
if they were taking Lauren Bobert into the situation room
to show that off to get her to, you know,

(40:53):
block this discharge petition in the House, that they must
be lining up some kind of goodies for the Republican
senators who they think. They probably are workshopping this with
a whiteboard. Which senator is the one that we can
get to go along with us and block this or
who are the guys that we can get to block this?
And it's going to be very interesting to watch. I

(41:15):
think you're absolutely one correct about that, right.

Speaker 6 (41:20):
But they're still up for reelection and all you need
to break the filibuster is just sixty votes total.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Sixty votes yeah, so we'll see. We'll see if they
get thirteen. They're fifty three, and if you can get thirteen,
then that's something I guess.

Speaker 5 (41:34):
But yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (41:37):
You know, this thing is just didn't have to be.
This was a man made crisis. It was never inevitable.
It was created by Donald Trump, who has been really
good at spin, really good at messaging communication, but on
this one he gets an f Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
And I do want to play something that I heard.
Megan Kelly was talking about this case and Dave, maybe
you can and us a little bit. She was talking
about the case and talking about how, you know, she
knows somebody who's close to all this, and you know,
Jeffrey Epstein wasn't into young girls. He was into teenagers,
which is not anyway, it's a complete mess whatever she

(42:16):
is saying here, But let's play it and talk about
on the other side.

Speaker 7 (42:19):
Before, which is a reminder. I do know somebody very
very close to this case who was in a position
to know virtually everything, not everything, but virtually everything. And
this person has told me from the start, years and
years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was
not a pedophile. This is this person's view who was
there for a lot of this, but that he was

(42:39):
into the barely legal type, like he liked fifteen year
old girls. And I realized this is discussing. I'm definitely
not trying to make an excuse for this. I'm just
giving you facts that he wasn't into like eight year olds,
but he liked the very young teen types that could
pass for even younger than they were, but would look

(43:01):
legal to a passer by. And that is what I believed,
and that was what I reliably was told for many years.
And it wasn't until we heard from Pam Bondi that
they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged forgive me.
They used to call it kitty porn. Now they call
it child's sexual abuse material.

Speaker 6 (43:20):
Maybe on his computer.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Dave, I don't know what Megan Kelly is trying to
do here, if she's trying to split hairs in all
of this, but a fifteen year old, I mean, that
is child sex abuse. That is that is not I
don't know what she's talking about here. Can you weigh
in on the legality of this here? I mean, it

(43:44):
seems to me that Megan Kelly does not know what
she's talking about, and maybe she's just relaying a story,
but it doesn't sound good what she's saying.

Speaker 6 (43:52):
It was an artful but I do think she was
relaying the story. She was saying what this guy was saying,
and at the end it sort of conflates her beliefs
with his. And I think that's where she may need
to clarify it. Because I saw there's a firestorm online.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Because of firestorm.

Speaker 6 (44:08):
Yeah, yeah, because I mean, I can't imagine anyone would
say it's justified against a teenage girl under eighteen exactly nothing.
First of all, sex trafficking is always illegal, but if
you are eighteen or over, it requires force fraud accorsion.
If you're under eighteen, there is no need for force
fraud accorsion. The individual cannot consent. That person is a victim.

(44:29):
You know, what's a little tibot on This also a
reason why, and this is some something I know as
as being a former state attorney down here in Palm
Beach County. Is one of the reasons why the prosecutors
here in Palm Beach County at the time did not
go hard against Epstein is because the law at the
time was that if you were an underage girl, a

(44:50):
fifteen fourteen year old, and you were getting paid money
for sex acts, you were under the law scene as
a prostitute, and that's why Epstein was charged with solicitation
of prostitution. Thankfully, now we've come to our senses and
the laws have changed and they are victims.

Speaker 5 (45:08):
They're a fifteen year old girl. It's not a prostitute anymore.
She's a victim. But because the laws are different, was
a different time. Now.

Speaker 6 (45:14):
This is not to excuse the prosecutors then, this is
not to justify it. This is just to give you
a little bit of an explanation of what was going
through their minds at the time.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
And you were mentioning Palm Beach, I mean, folks need
to understand you were a prosecutor in Palm Beach. I mean,
I have to think that this is what everybody is
talking about down there right are a lot of people
are talking about this right now that this is now
blown up, this Trump Epstein relationship, which is now not
just pictures of guys dancing on the dance floor and

(45:45):
acting lude and that sort of thing. It's now documented,
and I just have to think people are saying ah,
huh see I told you or you know I knew
this was going on, or this that and the other thing.

Speaker 6 (45:57):
Oh, I mean everyone's talking about it down here, but
all talking about it everywhere. And also, yeah, I was
the state attorney, but six years after the Epstein case
came through the office, it was.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
Already clo Yeah.

Speaker 6 (46:09):
I put that on my bio state attorney starting in
twenty thirteen, and then I left the office in January,
so I can speak out more on shows like yours.
But it is something that what happened was it was
through the office in Palm Beach County, the state prosecutors
and the local police chief in Palm Beach who really
wanted Jeffrey Epstein to go down.

Speaker 5 (46:30):
For all this. He didn't like the way that the.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
Local prosecutors were handling it, so he went to the
FEDS called the FBI, went to the Feds, and the
FEDS took it away, and then they entered into their
own deal with Epstein. The deal that is so controversial,
with a non prosecutorial agreement that involved Epstein pleading guilty.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
Not to federal crimes but to state crimes.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
It's serving time in a state facility or here a
local jail. I've never seen the Feds take it away
a case and then say now we're going to make
you plead guilty to state crimes, not federal crimes, and
your sentence is going to be in local jail.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
So weird, so strange, and it's it's been this way
for years. If you talked to the survivors, you know
they've said this, that this is, you know they have
They've been pleading for justice, pleading for the truth to
come out, pleading for you know, some somebody to come
along and show some guts and do this the right way,
and so many lives have been damaged in the process.

(47:29):
We saw that what happened with Virginia Drew Frey earlier
this year committing suicide. I mean, it's just been a sad, terrible,
tragic story. But Dave always appreciate the insights man. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 6 (47:39):
Thank you, Jim, and thank you for showing people my
sub stack at David you got it on this show.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
I always get new subscribers that thank you got a
great audio.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Good good, good, well check out yeah, check out Dave,
because Dave tells it like it is and boils it
down in a really relatable way, which is why we
like it. And you know you're you're a dog owner too,
so you know you can't be you bad.

Speaker 5 (48:00):
Thanks my friend appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Thanks Dave.