Katie Phang

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, welcome to a special live edition of The
Jim Acosta Show, and we have breaking news to report
to you this morning. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee
just this morning they released a small batch of emails
allegedly written by Jeffrey Epstein that claimed that Donald Trump
had quote spent hours at my house talking about Epstein's house.

(00:26):
And in that same email purportedly by Epstein, written back
in twenty eleven, the child sex offender wrote to his
longtime accomplished Gallaine Maxwell that Trump was quote the dog
that hasn'tbarked. Maxwell replied to that, I have been thinking
about that. I have a Katie Fang with me, a
legal analyst, and Katie, I mean, I'm just reading from

(00:48):
the post I put up just a few moments ago
about this because you know, I want to make sure
we get all the facts straight here and put all
the you know, qualifications here. That these are alleged emails
that were at least by the House Oversight Committee Democrats.
But if all of this shakes out to be true,
these are very damning emails and we should go through
them one at a time. Katie, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, Jim, not only are they damning, and they suggest
that there was legitimate compromot is what I am calling it,
that existed that Epstein could use for purposes of extortion, blackmail,
or other activities concerning Donald Trump. But I just want
to make sure people understand. These documents were produced as
a part of a trant of twenty three thousand documents
from the Epstein estate and to refresh people's recollection. House

(01:34):
Oversight served a subpoena on the estate of Jeffrey Epstein
months ago, and unlike the Department of Justice, which has
not been producing jack concerning the Epstein files, the Epstein
estate has understood the assignment and they understand that compliance
with the conngressually lawfully served subpoena requires that as they
uncover information, they turn it over. And remember, Jim, the

(01:55):
Epstein estate was the one they gave us the birthday
book that also implicated, right. I mean, so thank Gosh
for the Epstein estate understanding that compliance means you got
to give what you got, and they did to the
tune of twenty three thousand documents. And contained within that
trunt of documents were these three incredibly damning emails.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, and I mean, let's just read verbatim, and this
is a Jeffrey Epstein email allegedly to Gallaine Maxwell written
on April second, back in twenty eleven. We have this
up on screen for everybody. It says, I want you
to realize that the dog that has embarked is a Trump.
And there's a redaction here that says victims spent hours

(02:39):
at my house with him, referring to Trump. He has
never once been mentioned. And Gallaine Maxwell replies to that
by saying, I have been thinking about that because I mean,
I mean this email right here, and this is back
in twenty eleven, folks, this is before Donald Trump ran
for president. I covered the Romney campaign back in twenty twelve.

(03:03):
This is before Donald Trump came out and supported Mitt Romney,
I believe, back in twenty twelve, and so you know
he had been toying with politics and so on. This
is just Gallaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein apparently talking about
Donald Trump as somebody who was just a known figure,
as somebody who is a celebrity, as somebody who obviously
had something to lose if this did come out about him.

(03:26):
I mean, Katie, there's so many layers to this and
it's so damning for Trump. I mean, this could be
highly damaging. I mean I think this is absolutely highly
damaging stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah. So this is a for all intents and purposes,
private conversation. Right, there's no ccs, Jim, So it's not
like they were seeing lawyers or other people. It's just
buying between Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell. Let's also put
it in chronological context, right, twenty eleven is coming three
years after Jeffrey Epstein has received that sweetheart plea deal
from then you as attorney for the Southern District of Florida,

(03:59):
alex Acosta. It's three years after he did not get
federally prosecuted nor any of his co conspirators by the
Southern District, and instead he got that bullshit state charges
thing where he didn't even do any state prison time
and he had that work release kind of situation. But
what's so concerning, Jim about this email is they redacted
the name of a victim from this email, and it

(04:21):
says that that victim spent hours at my house as
an at Epstein's house with Trump. And it also says
that the police chief is mentioned right right, and that
Jeffrey says, I'm seventy five percent there, which I again,
this is my speculation on this gym. I think it
means I'm seventy five percent of the way there to

(04:44):
tell the police chief about Donald Trump spending hours with
a victim whose name has been redacted from this email
at my house. What is Donald Trump doing at Jeffrey
Epstein's home for hours with a victim whose name has
been redacted?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I mean, you know, it's pretty obvious with Jeffrey Stein
has sending Glaine Maxwell there, I mean, the other part
of this, and this is taking all of this, you know,
not exactly from most important thing the least important thing.
But Glaine Maxwell replying to this, I have been thinking
about that. Remember, you know, there was that super sketchy
meeting that Todd Blanche had with Gallaine Maxwell at the

(05:19):
prison and then she was transferred to the minimum security prison.
And we were all supposed to believe that Gallaine Maxwell
had basically exonerated Donald Trump in this setting, and everybody,
you know, obviously people who've been following this closely said,
you know, in all caps, don't believe anything. Glaine Maxwell
says she is a liar. She has lied repeatedly. I mean,
this shows you right here that obviously Gallaine Maxwell knew

(05:41):
something was up, something was going on, and replied to
Jeffrey Epstein that you know, this is something on her
mind too. They both feel like they have something on
Trump that they're talking about. This is fourteen years ago.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I will also say that, you know, I've become a
little familiar with the kind of writing and patterns of
these people as I've been looking at these documents, and
I am that crazy person who has been reading the
thousands and thousands of pages of these documents had been
released from House Oversight. Now will say Ghleaine Maxwell is
actually strategically a sphinx like in the way that she
answers in these emails, right, And if you look at

(06:20):
the other ones that were produced a few months ago
that we saw that also had Peter Teele's name and
Steve Bannon's name, et cetera. In terms of meetings and such,
she doesn't really come out and say a lot, but
there's enough there to insinuate, if not kind of directly
suggest Jim that she knows. So what's not there? Let's
focus on that for a hot second, right, what's not there?

(06:41):
Is her saying, what are you talking about? Jeffrey Trump
never went to your house? What are you talking about?
Trump was never there for hours? And of course Glaine Maxwell,
if there was anybody who would know what was going
on there, because she herself was complicit in being a
part of the sexual abuse, she would know. And so
it's what's not there In response from Galaine Maxwell that

(07:02):
also raises eyebrows.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
And if we could look at the next email, We've
got two other emails to show this. One is written
what appears to be the author Michael Wolfe, who was
in these circles with Epstein and Trump and so on.
You know, this doesn't mean that Michael you knew damning

(07:24):
details and so on, But I mean he's in this
email with Jeffrey Epstein, whose email addressed, by the way,
we should note is jee vacation at gmail dot com.
I mean, that is disgusting stuff as it is, But anyway,
there's an email from Michael wolf to Jeffrey Epstein that
appears to say, I hear CNN planning to ask Trump
tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or

(07:46):
in scrum afterwards. And then there's a response from Epstein
that says, if we were able to craft an answer
for him, what do you think it should be, to
which Wolfe allegedly replies, I think you should let him
hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the
plane or to the house, then that gives you a
valuable pr and political currency. I mean, it goes on

(08:11):
and on and on. I mean, again, Katie, what's important
in all of this is there's this discussion about Trump.
And now flash forward to what is this. This is
December sixteenth, twenty fifteen. This is when Donald Trump is
very much in the throes of running for president. He
had already announced he was running for president by that point,

(08:32):
and this was two weeks before the twenties to before
the year twenty sixteen when he's elected a president.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
So the other thing is that this is again a
private conversation allegedly right buying between wolf and Epstein. Remember
two footnote, Michael wolf is in active litigation against Milania Trump.
He's suing her for defamation. Why because she's called him
a liar with his reporting that there was a relationship

(08:59):
between Trump, Melania Trump, and Jeffrey Epstein. And however, already
met et cetera. Right, So wolf has a direct conversation
with somebody like Jeffrey Epstein, who responds, and this is
the one line among many in this email, Jim that
if we could pop that back.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Up, Yeah, pop that back up. We can.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
If we see Jeffrey Epstein's response to Michael Wolfe at
eleven to fifty two PM, it's in the middle of
those emails, it says, if we were able to craft
an answer for him, what do you think it should be?
Now that him there is Donald Trump? Why in the
world would Jeffrey Epstein be asking somebody like Michael Wolfe,
who was skilled in the language of the arts and

(09:40):
who understands how to speak, right. You think this is
a hypothetical question. It's not, Jim. I think it suggests
here that Jeffrey Epstein was still in contact with Donald
Trump in December of twenty fifteen and was going to
provide perhaps and some assistance to Trump to respond. But
that response for Michael Wolfe, I thought was so strategically

(10:02):
mackewa vellen in its way that he answered. He basically says,
if Trump doesn't if Trump says he's never been on
the plane or to the house that gives you valuable
pr and political currency. You can hang him in a
way that generates a positive benefit for you, or if
it looks like he really could win, as in the
presidency quote, you could save him generating a debt. Why

(10:26):
would anybody owe anything and any capacity in Epstein's world
unless Epstein had something compromising about that person.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I mean, and the email says, of course, it
is possible that when asked, he'll say, Jeffrey is a
great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is
a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed
in a Trump regime. I mean, you know, I obviously
Wolf and Epstein knew one another. And again, Katie, you
and I I think have talked about this and the

(10:56):
whole Epstein saga, talk about the birthday book in the
letter that Trump allegedly wrote to Epstein for Epstein's fiftieth birthday.
There was a familiarity between these two men. There was
a friendship between these two men, and there was it
appeared to be common knowledge in Palm Beach that there
was stuff going on at Jeffrey Epstein's house and Donald

(11:19):
Trump was a part of this world. Apparently, I mean,
these emails fit into that puzzle. It seems to me
the puzzle pieces are now coming together. It seems to me, Katie,
is what we're witnessing in real time right now, and
these emails helped put the puzzle pieces together.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
And that is the reason why I like to underscore
the importance of process, Congressional process, this idea of House
oversight actually doing the job it's supposed to do. Remember
the subpoenas that went to DOJ and that went to
the Epstein estate. They were done through an incredibly smart
and savvy mood move excuse me, by House Democrats on

(11:58):
the House oversite. They inserted the motion in a way
that was voted on, and it cornered the Republicans to
have to vote on that motion. And that is the
thing that got the ball rolling. So it's remarkable to
me that when Congress does its job the way it's
supposed to be done, it provides literally the oversight that's

(12:19):
required for the American people. But at the end of
the day, the entirety of the files must be released
read in conjunction with what we continue to receive from
places like the Epstein estate, so that people could decide
on their own gym what they think about Trump's culpability
and exposure when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein and Glain Maxwell.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, and if we can flash forward to that twenty
nineteen email. Again, these are emails that were allegedly written
by Jeffrey Epstein over an eight year period. Who knows
what other emails are out there. Here's the twenty nineteen email.
It says victim redacted mar A Lago another redaction. Trump said,
he asked me to resign. Remember ever, of course he

(13:01):
knew about the girls, as he asked Glaine to stop.
I don't know what that means, but you know, of
course he knew about the girls. That part right there
is pretty remarkable stuff, Katie. He if it says he
knew about the girls, the word girls is there remember

(13:27):
for folks out there paying close attention to this, And
there was also this remember, I mean, and again, this
is twenty nineteen. Now we're in the you know, the
middle of Trump's presidency. He's president of the United States
in January of twenty nineteen when this email exchange went
back and forth between Epstein and allegedly Michael Wolfe, the author,

(13:50):
and you know at this point, I'd have to go
back and look at what was in the news in
January of twenty nineteen. Was there some Epstein news going
on at that point? I don't know, but and Katie
helped us fill in the blanks if you can. But
I mean, this is this is when Jeffrey Epstein, if
I'm not mistaken here, this is when he goes to prison,

(14:14):
is it not in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, remember Epstein always was kind of percolating to the
top of the discourse every once in a while, depending
upon what was happening. But yes, there was the Epstein
and the Gallaine Maxwell indictments that were happening in the
Southern District of New York. And I believe you are
right that actually that was the tail end of the

(14:38):
superseding indictments that were happening with Epstein, because eventually Epstein dies, right,
Gallaine Maxwell gets indicted and she, you know, her case
ended up going to a trial. But it's again, we
need to see maybe context of how these emails were
produced to Jim, so we're kind of operating in a
little bit of information vacuum. But this email was allegedly

(14:59):
from Epstein directly to Michael Wolfe, and there is a
huge portion of it that we can see on the
screen right now, and the viewers can see that's redacted.
Right So the name of the victim is redacted, which
is understandable, and then it says mar A Lago. But
then there's this chunk of information that is redacted that's
really peaking my curiosity because I don't know for what
purpose the redaction has happened. But then it references the girls. Now,

(15:22):
remember Trump claimed last summer in twenty twenty four that
he and Epstein split up as friends and that he asked,
he demanded, he kicked Epstein out of mar A Lago.
He makes him clear there he was never a member
of mar A Lago. But then it was also this
allegation that Epstein was quote stealing girls from the spa
at mar A Lago. And that is what this reference

(15:44):
is in terms of Trump knew about the girls as
Trump asked Gallaine to stop. So yet once again we
have culpability in equal parts on the part of Gallaine
Maxwell as well as it looks like Donald Trump knowing
what the hell is going on.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, and now we have Katie, we have independent journalist
Ryan Liza with us our friend Ryan Liza Brian has
the tell of Substack. Ryan. Great to see you. You
and I were picking each other earlier this morning. I
know you've been on top of this. You've already written
a substack post on this. You've been following a lot
of this closely, and I mean, this is this is remarkable,

(16:19):
jaw dropping, eye popping stuff.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah. I actually obtained these emails last night, so wow,
hit send at eight thirty am. That's why I was
out first. You know, I was just to go back
to the conversation you all were having about what was
going on in January twenty nineteen, because you know, last night,
when I was working on this, I went back and

(16:43):
just put together the timeline to remind myself of that
important question. And so a couple of things. So two
months earlier, the Miami heralds now very famous Perversion of
Justice series had dropped November twenty eighteen, and so that
reignited scrutiny of Epstein and the two thousand and seven

(17:07):
two thousand and eight non prosecution agreements, right, and then
the other big thing that was going on, you know,
So later on SDNY, which is the Southern District of
New York that eventually would indict Epstein. They said in
court much later that after the Herald expose, that Epstein

(17:32):
had wired three hundred and fifteen, three hundred and fifty
thousand dollars to two potential witnesses, and they, you know,
as you can imagine, we're wondering if those transfers were
possible witness tampering. So the walls were closing in on
him in late January twenty nineteen, the date of the

(17:52):
of this one email. And so remember he was indicted
and arrested in July twenty nineteen, so not long, you know,
not long after this, and he was making some moves
because of the Miami Herald series and sending money to

(18:12):
potential witnesses. He knew things were in a bad place,
so he was free, but he was a registered sex
offender at that point, and you know, on the on
the cusp of going to jail.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
And back to that twenty nineteen email, which I mean,
again my jaws dropping a little bit with some of
this stuff. Trump's in office, he's the president, and Jeffrey
Epstein is saying to Michael Wolfe allegedly, of course he
knew about the girls, and then he goes on to say,
as he asked Glaine to stop, I don't know what

(18:49):
that means, as he asked Elaine to stop, like as in,
stop talking, stop cooperating, stop stop, I don't know what.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah. I think I could shed light on two aspects
of this. The one is the second reaction. So the
first one they've labeled it here victim. It's not labeled
in here. But my understanding of that second reaction is
that it is other identifying information about the victim that

(19:20):
it's not. I was gonna say, it's not substantive. It
might be substantive, but it's it's it was redacted because
it could identify the victim. In Yeah, that's all I'll
say about that. I don't know, you know, I don't
know off the record or otherwise what actually it says
in there, But I have my understanding is that it's
identifying information. And so you know, we'll have to see

(19:42):
what the White House says about that last line. The
line that is just sort of you know, makes sure
your eyes pop out, you know. Of course he Trump
knew about the girls as he asked the lane to stop.
You know, there has been some there has been some reporting,
if I'm not mistaken, that Trump didn't like ga Lane,

(20:07):
the Trump that Gallain was was maybe recruiting at mar
A Lago or was in some way interacting with girls
and young women there, And we've never really gotten to
the bottom of what that story was, but that's what

(20:28):
that's uh. That could be what it's talking about, or
it could just very generally be that he knew everything right,
So it could be a discreete example of something that
Glaine was doing at mar A Lago, which has been
uh in previous UH press reports, but still a lot

(20:48):
of details about that have been unexplained, or could be
just Epstein saying here, yeah, he knew everything. So obviously
I think you know, Robert Garcia, the top demock on
the Oversight Committee, you know, he had it right in
his statement that this, you know, raises a lot of questions, right,

(21:09):
we don't have all the answers this morning, but we
have a lot of new questions.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah. Well, I'm hoping to speak with Robert Garcia later
this morning. But I mean, he's the new ranking member
of the House Oversight Committee, and he has been making
a name for himself with this very aggressive investigation into
the Epstein files and what Donald Trump knew and when
did he know it? And we should go back to
that twenty eleven email, Brian, because you jumped in after

(21:35):
we talked about this twenty eleven email to me, Yeah,
this one is wild. I want you to realize that
the dog that hasn't barked as Trump victim or dak
had spent hours at my house with him. He has
never once been mentioned police chief, et cetera. I mean that.

(21:57):
And then Glenn Maxwell five, I have been thinking of
out that, and Katine and I talked about this earlier,
this whole Gallaine Maxwell, you know how Todd Blanche put
this out there that he talked to her, and you
know she exonerated trump olish shit that nobody believed, literally
nobody believed, and here it is, she apparently says in
this email. I've been thinking about that. But your thoughts

(22:17):
on this email, because it's this to me is kind
of the whole ballgame, if I mean, I mean, I
don't know what whole ballgame means entirely, because maybe Trump
people just they don't give a shit whatever he does,
they don't care. But for a lot of people in
this country. I think people care about this.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, I mean, look, at the time of this email
in April second, twenty eleven, Epstein was now out of
jail right on the state charges, on the state prostitution charges,
and we're so controversial, but he was facing a lot
of new questions. He'd recently been branded a Level three
sex offender in New York, and he was under new

(22:57):
scrutiny in the spring of that year in the UK
because the press there was becoming obsessed with his continued
association with Prince Andrew. That was all in the ether
at that at that moment. And then the month before,
in March, Maxwell had put out a public statement denying
any wrongdoing in the you know, in just in general.

(23:18):
So there was renewed scrutiny on Maxwell in February and March.
So this was not in any way behind him, even
though he was you know, out of jail, and in Florida,
a lot of civil litigation was getting off the ground
over his past conduct. That was all ratcheting up. And

(23:38):
then I believe it was the following month, but very
shortly after this email, his the non prosecution agreement, which
obviously was immensely enormously controversial was about to be made
public on the on the docket in uh in Florida.
So there was a lot swirling around at this time.

(24:01):
And you know, the reference to the police chief is
is the Palm Beast, Palm Beach police chief Michael Reader. Right,
you've probably seen him on TV. He's you know, he
aggressively pursued this case. He was very disappointed in the
in the in the and how it in the outcome
with the non prosecution agreement. And so that's what he's

(24:22):
talking about there that you know, Trump never came up.
But he's basically saying in any of the criminal inquiries
that they they had dealt with up until that point,
Trump hadn't been mentioned. And that's the the dog that
that hasn't barked again. It's it's a little cryptic, right,

(24:45):
we don't you know.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
And this was before he ran for president, and Katie
and I were talking about earlier, was kind of it's
basically before I think he even joined forces with Mitt
Romney when he endorsed Mitt Romney in the twenty twelve campaign.
He was he had been talked about his bo go figure,
but at this point he's really more of a rich guy,
celebrity TV star kind of that he's in that category

(25:10):
in April of twenty eleven. So if for all the
people in MAGA who are going to go on social
media and try to tear this apart and apologist on
Fox and so on, if you believe that this email
existed and happened, this is in a part of the
timeline that has nothing to do with politics at that point.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Basically, Yeah, that's right, And just one more on this too. Yeah,
I'm sorry, Katie, go ahead if you want, Katie.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
No, I just want to speak from the legal standpoint,
because you know, there's a chain of custody when it
comes to these documents, and I understand why, you know,
we have to give some grain of salt to when
we're looking at this. But I'd say to you Ryan
and Jim, you have to consider the fact that the
production was made by the Epstein estate. So I mean,
is are people going to suggest that these were manufactured
in some way? You know, is there some type of issue?

(25:57):
I would actually, you know, submit No. I think that
these are authentic emails that were said. But of course
I understand that there's a caveat that perhaps there's not.
But you know, Ryan, you did say they were cryptic,
and I had mentioned before you jumped on with Jim Ghlaine.
Maxwell's incredibly sphinx like in the way that she does
these emails. It's just the way that she answered. She
doesn't ever directly implicate herself, right, she doesn't ever outwardly

(26:19):
say anything. But I was mentioning, you know that Glaine
doesn't even say though, in response to Jeffy Epstein, what
are you talking about? We never saw Trump there, right,
there's no pushback to suggest that what Epstein's suggesting is
not true. So you know, I feel like if you
use those as building blocks and you look at the
context that you just provided as well, which was fantastic
about the United Kingdom and everything that was happening with

(26:42):
Maxwell herself. Of course Maxwell's thinking about that because if
she's also now getting into the spotlight of her own culpability,
let's just bring everybody down, Right, if I go down,
we all go down, and let's let's burn the house
down at exactly the same time.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
That's absolutely right, Like she was suddenly, you know, to
put out an on the record statement, you know, denying
she had anything to do with this, So she's freaked out.
And remember, you can't for you can't forget that the
relationship between Epstein and Trump ended in this still mysterious way,
but that you know, allegedly over this bidding war on

(27:19):
a mansion in Palm Beach in two thousand and four
that had a big feud over that. There's back and
forth allegations of you know, did Trump kick him out
of mar Lago or not? Was he actually a member?
You know, in one of these emails, Epstein says he
was never actually a member. Other reporting says that he
actually was a member. And but what happens after the

(27:40):
feud and this is something that you know, Michael Wolfe
was actually reported on in twenty twenty one and republished
in his new Substacks is highly relevant here. Yeah, the
investigation in Palm Beach starts just a few months after
Trump and Epstein have their falling out and over the years,

(28:06):
so guess what Epstein thinks. He starts to think it
was Trump who turned him into the police. Let me
just read from Michael Wolfe's reporting about this, because it's
you know, he has interviewed Epstein extensively, and he writes Epstein,
and this is Wolf writing concluded, Trump, ever cultivating the

(28:28):
Palm Beach Police and as a frequent visitor to Epstein's house,
well aware of his friend's proclivities, turned him in. Wow.
So that is an important context for this conversation between
Epstein and Glaine, and that what I just read from
Michael Wolf was from twenty twenty one. I don't know

(28:50):
the exact date of his interview with Epstein, but it was,
you know, it was toward the end of Epstein's life.
I think it was, you know, right before he was
arrested in in July twenty nineteen. So in two thousand
and in that era, he's telling reporters that he's still
telling reporters that he believed Trump, you know, turned him in.

(29:12):
And so that look, Epstein's Epstein lied a lot, So
you know, you have to be you really have to
be careful with sort of after the fact him trying
to say, oh, this guy did me and that guy
did me in. But it could be the context here
that like there Glaine and Epstein are the subtext is

(29:34):
that they believe Trump had some Trump knew a lot
turned them in, but the spotlight was never on him.
The dog that didn't bark because he was somehow in
the background pulling the strings.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Sounds like the title of Michael Wolfe's next book. But anyway, Katie, No.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
But Jim, you said something a couple of minutes ago
about how the puzzle pieces are coming together, which is
why I'm underscoring the importance as somebody kind of from
my vantage point professionally would like to forensically understand to
put everything together right. So Ryan is providing just important
context and insight, and we get these emails, but we
also know that the financial records are being tracked down

(30:13):
as well, so if there is an outflow of money,
if there's things that are going on, and then you
combine them with the actual investigative files from the Epstein
investigation that was done in an official capacity from all
law enforcement. If you kind of have that holistic view,
you'll be able to understand, I believe things better. But
when you're happy to do it in this piecemeal way

(30:35):
because of the stone walling that's happening from this administration,
it becomes incredibly frustrating for people that want to know
the truth and the irony that doesn't escape any of us, obviously,
is this. Trump campaigned on a platform that included transparency
on these files, right, and that was the promise that
was made, a pledge that was made that a lot
of MAGA loved while he was on the trail to

(30:56):
be able to get back into the Oval. So the
about face has pissed off a lot of people within
that world. And I cited to a poll somewhere I
think it was from September from NPR PBS Meyrist seventy
five percent of people pulled of Americans regardless of party filiation,
believe that the Epstein files should be released in their
entirety with just the victim's names redacted. That is I

(31:16):
think a damning indictment, no pun intended of what people
want to know about what happened here, and these emails
just pour kerosene on a conflagration in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, And I mean these emails do have redactions in them,
so the Epstein files, I mean, we're starting to see
that as these files get released. The victims' names are redacted,
but they tell us the important information that we all
need to know, and that is whether or not the
President of the United States, Donald Trump, at one point
in his life was involved in this conduct and that's

(31:52):
a super sanitized word. Was involved in illegal abusive behavior.
That email, and now, if it's revealed, would have to
be totally impeachable for the President of the United States.
You cannot have somebody in the Oval office who had
ever engaged in this kind of behavior. And that's just
me saying it as it is. But the other thing Ryan,

(32:14):
that we should put into perspective in all of this,
looking back at this twenty eleven email, it starts to
put the pieces of the puzzle together. As I was
talking about with Katie Fang in terms of the birthday book,
remember the birthday book and the letter that Donald Trump
allegedly wrote to Jeffrey Epstein talked about, may every day
be another wonderful secret. A pal is a wonderful thing.

(32:37):
The familiarity that is just baked into the writing here
allegedly by Donald J. Trump. And it wasn't long after
this that this email emerges between Jeffrey Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell.
As Katie and I were talking about Ryan earlier before,
you hopped on the fact that his Gmail address is

(32:57):
jee vacation or something along those I mean, good Lord,
I mean that's just putting it out there too. But
I mean, Ryan, this ties together this relationship and a
relationship that was built around allegedly potentially unspeakable behavior.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
No. Absolutely, and I think it's important in you know,
a lot of what we discussed about this case is
the politics of it, how it's going to affect Trump politically,
and the wrangling on Capitol Hill over getting access to
the remaining hidden documents at the Justice Department and elsewhere.
And yeah, you can't forget that at the at its core,

(33:43):
this is a case about a man who trafficked minors
and abused children, and that does get lost, I know,
and a lot of the political conversation about this, and
in just the you know, the sort of baroque details
of the whole sort did affair, you know, as you're
pointing out a dog running around his being.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
And I should know and we should note, I mean,
for the litigious jackasses out there, I will say definitively
on this show. In case anybody's wondering, the tape is here.
Donald Trump and his aides have repeatedly denied this. Donald
Trump and his aides repeatedly denied this. Anyway, go home to.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Not wait just say it when when you say that
denied what.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Jim, Well, they they've denied any wrongdoing, I believe is
what they've said right repeatedly over the years. I think
Stephen Chung and others and Trump's orbit have said repeatedly
that this is Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of bar
Lago because he thought he was a creep. I mean,
that was that is one of the denials that they
have put out there. Understanding is that Caroline Levitt is

(34:53):
going to have a press briefing today, hasn't been canceled already,
and she's going to be asked about this unless you
just calls on the SIKA fans. But you know, this
is they've tried to put the lid on this over
the years. Ryan, They've tried, and it's I sort of
feel like, and I'll say I was a White House
correspondent during a lot of this. This was all under

(35:15):
our noses, I guess, and we just this information was
just being kept under wraps a secret for so many years. Yeah,
if you ever to recorrect anything I've said that's wrong
or no, I mean, the.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Only thing I would say is, uh, you know, Carolyn Levitt,
whether she's doing a press conference or not. You know,
we're not going to get any accurate or meaningful information
out of her, although you know, an additional denial or
whatever I suppose is somewhat useful. And I think, like,
you know, there's the question of you know, crimes he

(35:55):
you know, there's he was he knew about the you
know he was one of these emails that talks about
him being with one of the victims. But even even
if you don't get to that level of of of
of horrible behavior, there's and this is Trump won't be

(36:16):
the only person in who this is affected this way.
It's the sort of did he know? What did he know?
You know? Did he did? He have detailed knowledge? A
lot of other people in public life have suffered serious
reputational harm because of paling around with this guy well
after his his child abuse was known. And so that's uh,

(36:43):
you know that alone is an important question. It's just
the classic what did you know? What did what did
he know? And when did he know it?

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Exactly? Katie? That I mean that to me is and
this is why you know, Trump needs to answer some
questions on this. He just has to, and he can't
be allowed to my friends in the White House press score.
The next time you ask get a chance to ask
him a question, you have to press him on this.
And when he yells and screens and calls you names,
you have to keep going. He needs to be read

(37:14):
this email and say, what is this? What did you
spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house with victim redacted?

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah? And to Ryan's well taken point, we always need
to remind ourselves and ground ourselves in the reality that
there are victims and survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, delay Maxwell,
and countless others. And it's the countless others that need
to be held accountable for what their role was and
whether the statue of limitations has come and gone for
criminal prosecution. I do think they need to stand and

(37:45):
stand in judgment for what they have done, and if
that includes the President of the United States, then so
be it. I also think it begs the question casual racism,
weaponization of the DOJ, prosecution of political enemy, you know,
embarrassment and humiliation on the on the global stage. Whatever
that is that you are able to tolerate and stomach

(38:07):
and swallow with a smile as maga. Fine, but is
there a red line that cannot be crossed when it
comes to child sex predation, child sex trafficking? I would
hope the fuck yes. Part of my French Ryan's sorry
so so So if you are a Republican and I
and you know that, and you all watch this show
and mine and everybody to hate watch us, if you're

(38:27):
tuning in, this has to be the red line for
you right. There cannot be any excuses. And this also
includes Mike Johnson for example. What a fucking horrific man
to sit there and delay the swearing in of congressom
and elect at a leader Grijalva to be able to
avoid stuff like this coming out. So there has to

(38:48):
be accountability for the victims. And if it means that
this is how we get there, you know, fighting and
screaming and dragging ourselves out there, then this is how
we're gonna do it for them.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
I don't know if you guys talked about this all
already before I came on, but as you probably know,
Grhalva will be sworn in today. Congress is back and
Mike Johnson is out of options. She's going to be
sworn in and she's going to provide the final signature
on the petition to force the floor vote on the

(39:24):
measure that would demand that the Justice Department release the
Epstein five.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
There we go, and she was elected to Congress nearly
two months ago, and in a special election, she.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Was elected in September twenty third. It is now November twelfth,
and Mike Johnson, the only explanation for that delay is
because she does not want this vote and does not
want those files at the Justice Department released. And I mean,

(39:58):
this is just like a been some poculation in that.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
And there's been some speculation. I'm sorry, don't mean to
cut you off, because Audalite to Griava would be the
decisive two hundred and eighteenth vote to force the release
of the Epstein files this discharge petition. There's been some
speculation that that Mike Johnson and the White House they've
already gotten to one of those Republicans they've tried there,
that maybe they've been quietly lobbying Republicans to pull them

(40:23):
out of, you know, voting for this. Is it Nancy
Mays and Marjorie Tailer Green, I don't, I mean I
will find out.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
I guess I mean that you know, who is going
to be the Republican that, especially if it's just one,
if it's not a group, who is going to be
the Republican that is going to be known for the
rest of their life that they were the one that
prevented the public from knowing the full details about about

(40:54):
Jeffrey Epstein. So, I mean, nothing surprises me anymore in
terms of Republican on the Hill and their willingness to
do just to stoop to any low to defend Trump
and to just debase themselves for him. But even even
I think would be shocked if one of them stuck
their neck out and publicly said, I'm taking my name

(41:16):
off off this letter, because you know, you know, they're
not gonna say Trump made them do it. They're gonna
come up with some other excuse, and you know, this
is a democratic plot or something. We'll have to point
uh to left. But but boy, unless it's unless it's
a group of them, which you know, you know, can't
discount that possibility that Trump has gotten to a group

(41:37):
of them, and the whole thing falls apart. But I
just don't know. As you guys have probably seen, this
is just the one issue on the right that Trump
does not control. Yeah, almost everything else, he says, filters
down to the base in a in a an astonishing

(41:59):
sort of cult like way, and he is able to
make stuff disappear, and this just it doesn't happen with this.
There's actually Republican resistance to him on this issue. And
I you know, I think that's one of the great
frustrations he has on this is whatever power he has

(42:20):
over you know, MAGA, it just doesn't apply to Epstein.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, And I mean, if there's one person that Donald
Trump is not threatening to sue these days, at least
not that I've heard, is Elon Musk, who said Donald
Trump is in the Epstein files. That is why they
have not been released. And it was shortly after that
that the Justice Department just to more pieces of the puzzle,
talk about the timeline. The Justice Department puts out the

(42:48):
memo remember this that says basically, oh, there's nothing to
see here with Donald Trump and the Epstein files. We're
going to sweep this under the rug. And that's what
it became game on as you were indicating, Ryan, that
is when MAGA blew their shit and started to say,
what is going on? What's happening with Cash Pattel and
Pam Bondi, who said, I have the Epstein files on

(43:10):
my desk. There's a physical impossibility. And the client list
is on my desk, which is a physical impossibility. And
then they proceeded to continue to lie about this over
and over over.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Hey just lied. In October, two guys, remember Pamela Joe
and Cash Pttel were in front of Congress being asked
about Epstein, and both of them are like, it's a nothingburger.
There's nothing there, there's no there there. And they were
asked specifically about references to Trump. So one of two
things is happening here or maybe three Really door number one,
they're lying door number two. There could be, in good faith,

(43:45):
this possibility that the Epstein files are different and don't
have a related overlapping subset of documents with the estate
of Epstein. Could be Jeffrey maybe kept things, although I
doubt it because these are emails, right, So if you
had email handles are access to emails, and you would
have it. But it also you know what I like
about this? Or the third option is you know, well,

(44:07):
there's no real third option. So here's the deal. So
what I like about this though, is this is the
first time we're seeing Michael Wolfe's emails in this right,
which suggests that there are people and third parties out
there that may continue to have access to information that
implicates people. Which is why Jamie Raskin just eight days
ago sent a letter to Pamela Joe saying, why did

(44:28):
you guys make an investigation of Southern District of New
York into co conspirators of Epstein and Maxwell Stop when
Donald Trump took office dot dot dot Why? And so
Jamie Raskin is asking all the right questions because this
was a trafficking ring. It was not just two people
involved in this, and I think that is how we

(44:49):
are going to be piecing things together. I think the
victims and the survivors have been failed repeatedly by the
system in informal and formal ways, and if there's a
way to help them achieve just truly, then that's what
we have an obligation to do by writing about it,
talking about it, exposing it, and doing our damnedest to
be able to bring it to light.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, and my understanding is that some of these survivors
are coming down to Washington for the swearing in of
Adalita Grialva. I've heard from one survivor right now. I
don't want to mention her name, but she has texted
me to say that she's on her way to attend
the swearing in of Adalita Grialva. Ryan, this is building

(45:32):
up to critical mass. You've been around Washington for a while.
I don't want to date either of us.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
But y'all don't have the wrinkles. You're fine. Don't worry,
abousiness all.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
This is a whopper. This is a bombshell of a
revelation that came from the House Democrats and the Oversight
Committee this morning. This is I mean, and and people say, oh,
that word sensational, No it is, No, this is a bombshell.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Oh yeah. The number of new threads that you can
pull on with these emails and the number of new
questions that raises are you know, extensive. And remember this
is these are three documents. These are three emails. Garcia
says that they turned over the Epstein of State turned
over twenty three thousand documents. Twenty three thousand. Now obviously

(46:29):
a lot of that's going to be uh, you know, uninteresting,
but they're just getting started and I would expect that
we're going to see more very very soon. I don't think.
I don't think these are the only three we're going
to see in the in the immediate future. And hopefully

(46:50):
I heard you, Jim, if you have a Garcia on
you know soon he uh, that would be a good
question for him, is you know what's what's coming next?
Because you know they're they're going through this very very
carefully and only releasing stuff, you know, slowly. There's more

(47:15):
to come. I guess that's what I'm saying here.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
There's no question about it. And you know, the other
thing in all this, Ryan is is that this is
being done by the Democrats on the committee. James Comer,
the Republican congressman from Kentucky, is the chairman of the
House over Site Committee, and the Democrats basically had to
do this by going around him over and over and

(47:39):
over again to get this information out to the public.
And yeah, you know, so for the Republicans or like,
you know, I want to see the Epstein files released
and you should see the calls coming into my the
switchboards lighting up like a Christmas tree. Bullshit Blogoney, they
have been helping Donald Trump covered this up, and it's

(48:02):
because of Robert Garcia, people like Rocanna, Jamie Raskin. This
has been a full court I mean for the folks
who are pissed at the Democrats. And I get it,
people are pissed at the Democrats right now. There are
a number of them who have been really working this
And I will say that, I mean, if Elon Musk
had never tweeted this shit earlier this summer, I mean,

(48:25):
it's it's kind of unreal how this has played out
over the last six months or so. It's kind of great.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, pains me to say it, but Elon was right, yeah,
And you know, it's also it's just fascinating. Did he
just make that up and got lucky or was he
deeply informed about this and part of the high level

(48:54):
conversations in the administration when this issue started gaining traction,
and they were you know, Oval Office meetings, uh, you know,
telling telling Trump, uh he's in there. I always wondered
that maybe that's been reported and I just missed it.
But I just when he tweeted that, it suggested that

(49:16):
there was that this was a topic of conversation at
the highest levels right in the administration, that this had
just been sort of percolating in the background, and you know,
Elon's there doing his doge stuff. But you know, the
private conversations among Trump's top top officials are about, oh shit,

(49:37):
you know, there's this big political problem that maybe coming
you know, down the pike, and he just sort of had,
you know, held it in his back pocket until the
inevitable Trump Elon blow up and you know, detonated the
nuclear weapon he had there.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
No question.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah. And the other thing too, Katie, is I mean,
I you know, we weren't showing it or we were
just showing that the birthday letter from Trump from the
birthday book, but there are other pages from that birthday
book that indicate a familiarity in the Palm Beach community,
in the Jeffrey Epstein community, that there was something fishy

(50:18):
going on between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein and what
Jeffrey Epstein was doing. I mean, remember in the birthday book,
there are the images of the girls on the beach
giving a massage and everything, and then there's the phony
check from Donald Trump. There's an image of a phony
check from Donald Trump that is made out, I believe,

(50:40):
to Epstein, and you know, all of this indicates to me,
and I talked about this on my show, and you,
Katie and Ryan. I think we've all talked about it.
There's a familiarity with what was going on, that something
was going on and people I've heard this from a
number of people in South Florida, in the Palm Beach
community that they just people knew about this friendship between

(51:01):
Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. We've seen the images of
them doing the white man's overbite and stuff like that
on the dance floor. But I mean, this is all
starting to make sense. And if you're Pam Bondy, yeah,
here are the images right here, Dear Jeffrey, Happy fiftieth,
all of this stuff, and so you know, and the

(51:22):
Trump people have said, oh, the birthday letter that was forged,
it wasn't really from him. Give me a break, Like
somebody went back in time in a time machine and
slipped that in there, and they somehow forged this signature
and slipped it in there, or the Epstein estate is
part of the conspiracy. At some point, you have to
give it up. You have to give it up that
you believe in some goddamn conspiracy that always exonerate that

(51:43):
there's always a conspiracy that exonerates Donald Trump. There's always
this is the mental gymnastics that his supporters and people
a maga go through. It's it's just, guys, you got
to give it up. You got to give it up.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
So there's two different types of evidence. There's direct and
circumstantial evidence. And you know, as of right now, as
the three of us sit here, we don't have quote,
direct evidence of Donald Trump's complicity in you know, criminal
conduct right now, right, And to underscore what you said
a couple of minutes ago, Jim, yes, there has been
repeated denials of wrongdoing by Trump and the people in

(52:18):
Trump's sphere. Okay, but you can also convict on circumstantial evidence.
I did it as a prosecutor, and it's not out
of the norm because if you look at the rules
of evidence, they treat direct evidence with the same value
as circumstantial evidence, and it's just up to the triers
of fact the members of the jury to decide what
value do they want to put on admissible evidence. But
direct and circumstantial evidence can be admissible. And the reason

(52:40):
why I kind of do that, really quick legal primer
is when you look at the totality of the circumstances here.
When you look at the birthday book, when you look
at these emails, when you look at the you know,
media reporting, when you look at the photographs, when you
look at the closest the intimacy, the fact that these
people that are in the birthday book and that are
in the pictures and that are reported upon, these people

(53:01):
were rarefied air individuals. They were people that were a
part of an exclusive club of money means wealth and
power and influence, and they were able to be able
to do these things right without any a type of
oversight or any type of of of of people stopping them.
You are just as complicit if you knew as you

(53:23):
were if you partook right. And so the question is
how much did Donald Trump know? How much did Donald
Trump do? If Donald Trump had just minded his own
damn business and continue to run his businesses into the ground,
we would never be having this conversation, right, But Donald
Trump was the dumbass. You decided to run for office twice,
and so when you put yourself into the public sphere, people,

(53:53):
it's all about that. But the point is weak care
because he's the quote leader of the free world, right,
we care because he's a president of the United States,
and if there was anything that rows to the level
of impeachable conduct, it would either be direct involvement or
even circumstantial evidence of involvement or knowledge. Right, any of

(54:14):
that should be enough to be able to say you
are not fit for office. Putting aside all the other
shit he does badly, something like this in and of
itself is impeachable conduct.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
And while we have that twenty fifteen email up, we
can hit the pause button on that. Ryan, let me
ask you about this because this Michael Wolfe email, December fifteenth,
twenty fifteen, eight pm. I hear CNN planning to ask
Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air
or in scrum afterwards. Michael Wilfe's familiarity with how we

(54:45):
do things is interesting. That is exactly how things would
go down. And then Epstin allegedly writes, if we are
able to craft an answer for him, what do you
think it would be or should be? And then Wolfe says,
I think I think you should let him hang himself.
If he says he hasn't been on the plane or
to the house, then that gives you valuable pr and

(55:08):
political currency goes on and on. You can hang him
in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you,
or if it really looks like he could win, you
could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is
possible that when asked, he'll say, Jeffrey's a great guy
and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim
of political directness, which is to be outlawed in a
Trump regime. There are so many layers to that that

(55:29):
might have a lot here.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
This one don't. I don't think this one makes Michael
wolf look great. And I want to get I want
to get to some of Michael Wolfe's reporting that.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Barry Trump worldy anyway you go, He Harry Trump.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Worldy, you know, a couple of things. And wolf he
spent a lot of time with Epstein. He's written extensively
about him. He talked to him quite a bit, and
so he understands him. So the thing that struck me
was he was immediately recommending that Epstein use information he
has about Trump for lever Bridge. And so you know,

(56:02):
I'm sure Michael will be writing and talking about this soon.
But my first question was is he doing that because
he understands that's something that Epstein did with other powerful
people or was this just you know, a Wolfian idea
off the off the top of Michael's head. But it's

(56:23):
a conversation between two people who have a shared understanding
of Trump's close relationship with Epstein, the fact that he
was on the plane. And I believe that it's been
confirmed that Trump was on one of Epstein's aircraft seven times,
most often back and forth from the New York area

(56:46):
to Palm Beach. He was never on any flights that
we know about to the to the famous island. And
so these guys are talking about Trump with with with
personal knowledge of his close relationship with Epstein. I mean,
I think that's the main takeaway of this. And I

(57:07):
just can I just tell you a few things that
have not gotten enough attention that wolf has reported directly
from Epstein's mouth recently that you know. The first thing
is about Steve Bannon. I mean, Bannon and Epstein were
very very close. And there's a scene in Michael Wolfe's

(57:28):
twenty twenty one chapter about Epstein that he's now republished
on Substack that goes like this, So Bannon comes into
this conversation I think over the phone, and they don't.
They've recently been introduced. I think this scene takes place
in like twenty seventeen or eighteen, and Wolfe says, this

(57:50):
is wolf quoting Bannon. This is Bannon to Epstein. You
were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign,
said Bannon, laughing when they met, meaning he believed Epstein
knew dangerous secrets about Trump. Epstein replies, as well, you

(58:10):
should have been as well, you should have been afraid.
That is just a really underreported quote about between and
scene between Bannon and Epstein and the two of them
with this understanding that Epstein had information about Trump. Now,
maybe Epstein was bluffing, right, Obviously he was. You know,

(58:32):
he lied about a lot of stuff. That's one thing,
just one other quick thing that I thought was fascinating that,
you know, given our conversation. Here adds some important context.
And that is so when Epstein is arrested in twenty nineteen,

(58:54):
in July twenty nineteen, he's coming back from Paris apparently,
and he's I think he's arrested at the air. At
the same time, the FBI is raiding his house on
the upper East side of Manhattan, which incidentally happened to
pass by the other day when I was in New York.
And you know, they removed all sorts of stuff, and

(59:16):
they blew a hole in his safe. And this is
Michael wolf describing that the FBI prosecutors publicly announced that
they had found nude pictures of women who might appear
to be underage, a thirty year old passport from Saudi
Arabia with a phony name in Epstein's picture, along with
cash and diamonds. Wolf goes on. The FBI did not

(59:37):
list in its findings a set of pictures that Epstein
sometimes removed from the safe to show friends. A dozen
or so snapshots from shortly shortly before Trump and Epstein's
quarrel in two thousand and four of Donald Trump at
Epstein's Palm Beach home posing with a variety of young
women in various stages of undress, some topless, sitting on

(01:00:01):
his lap, touching his hair, laughing and pointing at a
suggestive stain on the front of the future president's pants.
So that is Michael Wolfe reporting on photos that he
says were found in that safe that the FBI rated.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
And which would so be a part of the Epstein files.
I mean, one would think absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
And so, you know, just just for context of when
people are looking at these emails and saying, why is
this author Michael wolf and Jeffrey Epstein, Why the emailing
back and forth? You know with this sort of very
very personal relationship, They had a pretty tight source journalist relationship.
So that's you know, that's what I think people need

(01:00:49):
to understand. And you know, these are scenes and facts
that Michael Wolfe, you know, longtime author has put in
the public. Don't one final thing from his reporting, if
you'll indulge me that I do think it's interesting to viewer.
That might be interesting to viewers. So we already talked
about how the original investigation in twenty eleven that Epstein

(01:01:13):
believed Trump may have had something to do with it.
In twenty nineteen, Trump's in the White House. Epstein Wolfe
says that Epstein believed there were two scenarios of why
this all came roaring back, and one of them, okay,

(01:01:33):
is that the Southern District of New York, which according
to many reports, was hot on Trump's tail, had moved
through its public corruption unit with its focus on bribery
public officials, it could avoid having its investigations approved by Washington, Katie,
maybe you could fact check that. But they'd moved through
its public corruption unit to arrest Epstein and pressure him

(01:01:55):
to flip on Trump. That is, the Southern District of
New York had slipped Epstein's arrest passed Trump's attorney general
and watchdog Bill Barr, who indeed oddly recused himself after
the arrest and then hurriedly at Trump's urgents. At Trump's urgings,
Bannon was sure. That's Michael Wolfe saying that Trump urged this,

(01:02:16):
according to Bannon, and then unrecused himself. So I'm not
deep in the weeds on Epstein's conspiracy theories, but this
is Michael Wolfe saying that Epstein believed that sdn Y
wanted him and wanted to pressure him to flip on Trump.

(01:02:39):
So I don't know if you guys are familiar with
any of that that stuff, But that's all in Michael
wolf one of the people mentioned in these emails. That's
all in his chapter about Epstein in his twenty twenty
one book that he is now republished on some stack.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Well and Katie a lot, but it's a lot. No,
But I mean, Kate, I mean, what the White House
is going to do is they're going to try to
discredit Michael Wolfe. They're going to go after Michael Wolfe.
And they've done this in the past because Michael wolf
has written on flattering stuff about Donald trumpt even though
he gets incredible access to Trump world. I think we

(01:03:16):
know why now. But what these emails demonstrate, and it'll
be interesting to hear what Michael wolf has to say
about this. You know, he has access to the people
in the room, to the principles involved in all of this,
and so you can't really impeach somebody like Michael Wolfe,

(01:03:38):
I suppose. I mean, you can take issue with certain
things that he does or whatever. But if he's emailing
with Jeffrey Epstein, he's emailing with Jeffrey Epstein, you know,
and I guess the White House will also say, well,
Jeffrey Epstein, this was all a figment of his imagination
and then he was trying to extort things from Donald Trump.
I mean, I'm just trying to think of all of
the things that they'll say.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
So when you're trying to impeach somebody for their credibility,
and you do stuff maybe look for prior inconsistent statements,
or you look for reasons why somebody would be not
a truth teller. In this context, you also have to
look at the timing of it. And the chronology of
this is so damning for Trump because it goes so
far damn back. This is not stuff that was happening

(01:04:19):
right like just yesterday, Like this is years years ago.
The first email we're looking at us from twenty elevenfold,
which is fourteen years ago. Right. And again, there could
be underlying context within kind of situationally situational context as
to why these emails are flying back and forth. But
the thing is this, there is a reason why Michael
Wolfe has gone on the offensive by suing Milania Trump

(01:04:42):
for defamation.

Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Michael wolf has said, y'all want to shit on my
credibility whatever, I'm going to actually put it out for
the public to see and decide on their own by
suing you, which in my mind lays down a pretty
hard gauntlet for Trump because by putting it into judicial system,
by creating being a vehicle for discovery to occur. Michael

(01:05:04):
wolf has said, let's rock, Let's rock, And what's amazing too,
is the crowd funding that has happened for Michael to
support this litigation has been jaw dropping. The number of
small I mean, Michael at this point is like a
one man political campaign. The amount of small dollar donations
that have rocked into this litigation has been stunning in

(01:05:26):
my humble opinion. And so it just goes to show
that people are showing support where it needs to be,
which speaks to the bigger picture issue of transactional loyalty
with somebody like Donald Trump. People are learning the hard way,
as they have done consistently while they have been in
Donald Trump's sphere and orbit. Let's look at Michael Cohen
for example, right, there is transactional loyalty only with Donald Trump.

(01:05:49):
We are seeing people like Republicans that got totally fucked
by the redistricting scheme from Texas because California Prop fifty one,
and they know that they have exposure now like there
are people that are realizing that maybe this really wasn't
the best deal, contrary to Donald Trump's promise of the
art of the deal, right, And so I think it
just goes to show that there are a lot of people,

(01:06:11):
for example, like Jeffrey Epstein that probably we're willing to
sell his ass up the river to be able to
not only help themselves, but to show that Trump shouldn't
get away with it all because Trump has that reputation
of being what teflon Dawn right, Well, it looks like
to me that people are like, you want to know, well,
here's an email, let me show you what it says, right,
And I think this, I think from an objective standpoint,

(01:06:34):
this is what we call, I say, independent corroboration. If
there are emails that are in writing. I'm not relying
upon Michael Wolfe's recollection of the email Epstein. I'm like,
your honor, may, I may approach the witness. I'd like
to introduce this into evidence, right, and then the jury
actually sees it, and you're asking a jury not to
believe their eyes. We've been there, done that with Trump,

(01:06:55):
and we know where this goes, right. We've seen the
classified documents and the crap at mar Laga, So we
understand what we're getting with somebody like Trump, which is
why I don't care what Caroline love It or Cash
Patel or PAMBONDI want to say the American people are
not going to sit silently and watch this happen in
real time without demanding the truth on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
And you're absolutely right, hey, because if you look at
the twenty eleven email, you know Michael Wolfe is not
in that email. That is an email between Jeffrey Epstein
jee vacation, which again it's disgusting, and Glene Maxwell. The
dog that hasn't barked Ryan, lizz It, the dog is

(01:07:39):
barking this morning. The dog is howling.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
I'm laughing because I have a dog, and you guys
can't see that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
It's right now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Mine's under the desk, Yours is running around Ryan, and
or Duke. I got to know where Duke is right now,
so he's upstairs.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
He knows. He's kind of learned. Now when I start
talking into my laptop, it's time for me to go
upstairs and take a nap or something. Which is sad
in the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
This is the opposite. This is the opposite of Bodie,
who whatever I'm sitting in this little spot looking into
a camera is just he decides that's time to like
just absolutely go wild. And because he knows I can't,
I can't do anything. I can't go get him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
That's okay, that's all right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
But on Katie's point about you know, Michael Wolf is
h he's an interesting character and all this, and he's
stirring the pot in you know, a lot of interesting ways.
I was just looking at the GoFundMe page that Katie
referred to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Isn't it a lot ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
Seven hundred and twenty six thousand dollars seven twenty six,
five fifty nine. So he's raised over and his goal
is to raise nine hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
It's note a Michael Wolf book advance, but it's that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Lot of money for people wanting to support him. Suing
Milania Trump, right, I mean, that's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Right. And look, he did this after I don't know
if they went ahead with it, but they threatened Trump
and Milania threatened to sue.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
They did a cease and desist against him, is what
they did.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
They actually follow through the lawsuit? Do we know?

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
No, No, this is him. I think this is him
taking the offensive against her. I don't I don't remember
him actually being sued sued.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Yeah, And so his you know, his goal with this is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Why is she involved? Why? Why? Why is Milani even
part of this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Oh because oh sorry, go ahead, Ryan, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
You're wondering, is I'm kind of wondering?

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Yeah, And you know, I would recommend being very careful
in how you discussed this case. Yes, speaking speaking of lawsuits,
because this is the issue that has prompted, uh, you know,
threats of litigation and I'm frankly not personally up to
speed enough on uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Yeah, alleges there was a connection between Milania and Epstein,
and that's pretty much non defamatory. That's just what the
allegations are.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Yeah, And and I mean, just so we're airtight on
all of this, we're not alleging that either. No, No,
we're just reporting on what is in the news. And
I just heard from Robert Garcia's office. He's running a
few minutes behind, but that's okay. I told him, no worries.
We'll take them when we can get them on.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
To talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Lots to talk about for folks who have watched this
show ever since July, that July memo came out, we
were on this like white on Rice, and we've been
covering this repeatedly ever since. Ryan, you and I've talked
about this, Katie, you and I have talked about this,
and I know you guys have been on this as well,
but there and there, and I thought there was some

(01:10:51):
reluctance on the part of the mainstream corporate media to
really jump on this. But to me, this is the
most important threat to Donald Trump's presidency that I have
ever seen, more than the Ukraine. The Ukraine thing was appalling,
absolutely January six obviously should have resulted in being disqualified

(01:11:14):
from the presidency, but that's on Mitch McConnell, and obviously
the Republicans weren't there on that. But Ryan and Katie,
to me, if if more evidence comes out, this becomes
a runaway freight train. And the MAGA people may not
be able to imagine this now because they've just been

(01:11:38):
completely fucking brainwashed into this. But if we're just seeing
three emails today, as Congress is coming back to town,
the House is coming back to town, ladies and gentlemen,
there's more that's coming, and people like Mike Johnson and
Steve Scalise, john Thune, they just have to ask themselves

(01:12:01):
the question. It goes back to what Adam shiff said.
I think during the first impeachment do you want to
tie yourself to this man with an iron unbreakable cord
that will drag you down to and as Liz Cheney said,
do you want to be remembered for the shame and
the dishonor of linking yourself to this man irretrievably? And

(01:12:25):
it seems to me this is the test, this is now.
I just I see this unfolding in this fashion. I
could be wrong, Ryan and Katie, but I see it unfolding,
and that we will be talking about this now up
until the twenty six mid terms.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Well they unfortunately, I mean, listen, the still critical issues
for Americans are can we put food on the table?

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
So let's be very clear that's still paramount questions. But
the unfortunate consequence of this news dropping now is even
though we're still technically in the midst of a government shutdown,
you know, people can act to pay attention to this.
Now we're not you know, we can still walk and
chew gum at the same time, we can have a
conversation about, you know, what is happening with this impending

(01:13:08):
continued resolution issue and all this other stuff and appropriations.
But you know, the focus has appropriately now shifted to
this because it still ties into the idea that there's
a reason why speak Speaker Mike Johnson said everybody home
early because he didn't want to vote on this. Right,
This is so much the what are you trying to hide? Moment?
And now it's all going to come home to roost.

(01:13:30):
And this is only three emaals of twenty three thousand documents. Well,
I can't wait to see the entirety of them when
they're released.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Yeah, and Ryan, or you're gonna say.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
No, I'm actually going to ask you guys to I'm
just checking on something that might be interesting for our conversation.
So I'm going to ask you guys to carry the
conversation while I will I communicate with someone here from
no worries. If that's not too annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
No, you do your thing. Ryan may have popped out.
He may back. And I just got an update Katie
from Robert Gerzia's office. We're expecting him at about eleven
o five a m. For any cable news bookers out
there who are thinking about holding Robert Garcia hostage, I
know how this works. People him, release him, release the

(01:14:19):
congressman that he can come on.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
You can come and talk to growing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Audience on both substack and YouTube right now. And Katie,
I mean to me, as we're getting close to the
top of the hour and more and more people are
jumping on and watching this, we need to remind folks
what you and I have been talking about for almost
the last hour and a half, and that is some
very important documents have been released by the House Overside

(01:14:43):
Committee Democrats, not the entire committee, by the Democrats, they
allege These emails that were released by the Overside Committee
Deems alleged that Epstein emailed Gallaine Maxwell, and Epstein emailed
the author Michael Wolf of or Course of an eight
year period from twenty eleven to twenty nineteen that indicate

(01:15:06):
that Donald Trump had knowledge of what was going on
at Jeffrey Epstein's house. The twenty eleven email alleges claims
that Donald Trump spent hours with a victim victim name
redacted at Epstein's house. Doesn't get into the behavior, doesn't
give us that kind of level of detail. But Katie,

(01:15:29):
as you and I were talking about this with Ryan
Lizza also a few moments ago, these emails are some
of the most damning emails that I have ever seen
produced in reference to a president of the United States.
He has been dogged by this scandal for months now
and has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. But when the White

(01:15:51):
House and the Justice Department tried to put out this
memo back in July and say that there's nothing going
on here, and then in the aftermath of that, in
the months that came after that, we've seen all of this.
As you said earlier, circumstantial evidence, you know, documentation emerged
that that shows that Donald Trump has a lot of

(01:16:12):
questions to answer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Yeah, and I think that assuming arguendo, what's put in
here is authentic and true, and that's a big assuming,
and we can couch all of this with these are alleged,
you know, statements that are being made here. This is
the first, I believe of kind of the direct implication
of Donald Trump allegedly having no knowledge of what was
transpiring with Jeffrey Epstein, putting aside the fact that Epstein

(01:16:37):
and Maxwell themselves suggested these email correspondence that Trump himself
was partaking in this, putting aside that if you don't
even want to give that any type of credence, there
is a suggestion here in these emails that Trump knew
or had knowledge or should have known as to what
the hell was going on with Epstein at Epstein's in
state and Epstein's homes, et cetera. And I think that
is why these are such bombshell emails. You know, we

(01:17:01):
use the adjectives bombshell, unprecedented, another so often these days
they do approachably, you know, match what is being revealed.
But I do think we've become almost immune to it
because we're using those adjectives so often. But I think
in the context of these particular emails, they are so
fitting because it shows a consciousness of guilt on the
part of Trump and others to be able to continue

(01:17:23):
to hide this information from public consumption. If you were
not implicated, if you didn't do anything wrong, it doesn't
take a rocket scientist to say that you would have
released these files months ago. And the fact of the
matter is, again, these emails are coming from the Epstein estates,
So there is a very real possibility that there is
not an overlap and a subset of documents that exists

(01:17:44):
between the DOJ and the Epstein estate. Although I find
that hard to believe. The greatest, most powerful law firm
and law enforcement agencies in the world are the United
States government, You would presume that they would have had
their hands on this, which just goes to show then
misplaced in completely ill guided loyalty on the part of
Cash Betel, Pamela Joe and others including Todd Blanche. Let's

(01:18:06):
not forget him spending nine hours with Gallaine Maxwell. And
now the media is reporting through a whistleblower that there
is the possibility that Glain Maxwell is seeking a commutation
over twenty or federal prison sentence from Donald Trump. Timing
is really shitty for Glaine right now with these emails
coming out, because Donald Trump ends up giving that commutation.
I think that's yet another indsha of guilt on the

(01:18:28):
part of Donald Trump. But it just shows reclues that
everybody is kind of in on this and trying to
hide this, and it is an incredible insult to those
of us that just want to make sure that the
people that should be held accountable and should be forced
to stand in the sunlight of truth, that they are
actually forced to stand in the sunlight of truth.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Yeah, and Ryan, you were just saying you've got some
new information to share.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Oh great, Yeah, well, earlier, I was talking about how
I had reason to believe that we were going to
see some more emails from the twenty three thousand documents
that the Oversight Committee subpoened from the Epstein estate, and
they have just now released sixteen pages of additional emails.

(01:19:12):
I was just taking a sort of you know, glance
at them, and I think, you know, on first glance,
there are going to be some names that people are
familiar with in here. So it's more communication between Epstein
and some of his you know, high profile people.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
Just one, since we're talking about our friend Michael Wolfe,
you know, there's one that struck me here. This is
from Michael Wolfe to Jeffrey Epstein, October twenty ninth, twenty sixteen,
So right before election day in twenty sixteen, importance high.

(01:19:54):
And Michael writes to Jeffrey Epstein, there's an opportunity to
come over this week and talk about Trump in such
a way that could garner you great sympathy, sympathy and
help finish him. Interested, he asks, it's a page ten.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
I believe, page ten.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
Okay, So look again, you know, Michael, and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
As we're a scroll, my producer Matt is flying up
some other emails as you were talking. Ryan, We'll have
to get to this. There are some emails that appear
to come from Larry Summers. But anyway, we'll get to that.
But to the one you were just talking about, I
think we were just showing it on screen. Here we
can pause right there. Michael Wolf to Jeffrey Epstein. You're right,
October twenty ninth, twenty sixteen.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Yeah, so right before the election, just.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Right before the election, after Access Hollywood. Go ahead, I'm sorry, Ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
Yeah, and just you know, this is Michael suggesting that
what Epstein knows about Trump could finish him. I will say,
we all thought that Access Hollywood was enough to finish Trump,
uh at that point. So there were a lot of
things that people thought would finish uh Trump that didn't

(01:21:11):
finish him. So, you know, it's weird these conversations between
Wolf and Epstein. They hint at a lot of secrets
that Epstein seems to uh, at least that Wolf believes
that Epstein knows about Trump. But it's it's cryptic and
not you know, not not totally spelled out. And even

(01:21:33):
in that chapter that I was quoting from before that
Michael has has written he alludes to things that Epstein knows,
but never you know, never goes, you know, quite beyond
beyond that. So it could be stuff that you know,
we've just come to know in in years since since
since then, which is, you know, the fact that Trump

(01:21:55):
was at the house all the time, the fact that
Trump was on the airplane seven times, you know, just
details about the close friendship and association, or could be
something you know much you know, you know much more dating.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, and there are emails in here between allegedly, And
I'm just going to keep saying allegedly as much as possible,
even though it may annoy viewers who are saying, oh, Jim,
don't say we have to say it between Larry Summers
and Jeffrey Epstein. And again, if somebody is mentioned in
the emails, we should not infer ironclad proof of any

(01:22:38):
wrongdoing or anything like that. But I'm looking at page
I believe it's three, and I think we were showing
that a few moments. Yeah, and you know, you kind
of have to read these backwards a bit, but it

(01:22:58):
looks as though Summers says to Epstein, was there, spoke well,
spent time with soft Bank deputy. I don't know what
that means, Epstein replied, any one standout when we meet,
I will endeavor to mesmerize you with stories of DC
so wild. Again from Epstein, and then there's there's there's

(01:23:22):
an email response from Larry Summers. Here. I believe if
I'm reading the time timeline correctly, that says SoftBank deputy
Guy I liked, seem to wear an honest lots of
slathering Ta Saudia's I yipped about inclusion. I observed that
half the IQ in world was possessed by women, without

(01:23:42):
mentioning they are more than fifty percent of population. Minuchin
plums new depths. Not sure what that means, but that
refers to Steve Banuchin. I believe, who is the Treasury
secretary during the first Trump presidency. War seems more likely
than I used to think. And then it says DJT
is world's luckiest in terms of opposition economy. Still think

(01:24:04):
his world will collapse. This is an email written October
twenty seventh, twenty seventeen. I believe that's right, and this
is when he's in office, so this is during his
first year of his presidency. I'm trying to figure why
America elite think if you murder your baby by beating
an abandonment must be irrelevant to your admission to Harvard
but hit on a few women ten years ago and

(01:24:25):
can't work at a network or think tank. Do not
repeat this insight in all caps. I mean, so there's
a lot here that we're we just we're just getting
to the bottom of this now. We're just hearing about
this stuff now, I guess. And this is Ryan. These
are other documents released by the Oversight Democrats.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
Is that yeah, yeah, yeah, it's and you know it's
on their website now. And you know, I want to
be careful because we're reading these in real time, in
real time, the context is important, and as Jim pointed out,
just because a name pops up in these emails, that

(01:25:04):
obviously doesn't, you know, tell you anything one way or another.
You've got to read them carefully and understand the context.
At the top on the first page, there's, uh, there's
something from Bannon if you scroll up there, and maybe
we can try and decipher this together. But if you

(01:25:28):
look at page one, well, it has Bannon saying, can't
believe nobody is making you The connective tissue.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
Yeah, to be honest, this one is just going to
require a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
Yeah. Well, there's a message Prince Andrew accuser came out
of mar A Lago. So there's a Prince Andrew men.
And there's there's another message that says Prince Andrew and
Trump today too funny that's in that first page.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
Yeah. I guess what isn't clear to me though, I
think is the email address. You see this email address here,
that's g iTunes at gmail dot com. Are we to
understand that that is Epstein.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
J E E. Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, yeah. Another one was
j E E. Vacation at Gmail. This is yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
So you had multiple aliases and the email addresses.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Multiple email addresses, yeah nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
So and again this goes back to what we were
saying earlier. For folks who are tuning in, it sounds
as though the Epstein estate was participating with some of these.
And there's Congressman Robert Garcia, now he's the ranking Democrat
on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman gar I've got Ryan
Lizza with me, independent journalist. He's been working on all

(01:27:04):
of this as well. And I'm hearing from your staff
you've got a heart out. I'm sure you're a busy
man doing lots of interviews, but tell us your initial
reaction to these emails, particularly that one we were showing
our viewers a little while ago from April of twenty eleven.
This exchange between Epstein and Maxwell where it says victims
spent hours at my house with him, referring to Trump

(01:27:27):
the dog that hasn't barked your thoughts, sir, I.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
Mean really disturbing stuff, obviously.

Speaker 5 (01:27:33):
Look, I think these are really serious again for us,
really gives us a lot more to work on, and honestly,
we have a lot more questions and important questions if
the White.

Speaker 4 (01:27:43):
House refuses to answer.

Speaker 5 (01:27:45):
I think it's clear that Donald Trump to this point
has been untruthful in what actually hath happened, what he knows,
what he may have participated in. You know, he said
the birthday note, did it exists?

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
It exists? He said he didn't know Jeffrey Epstein very well.
We know that's not true since said they were close friends.
And this email that essentially says that Donald Trump may
have spent hours with the victim. The other email from
Epstein that said that Trump had some knowledge allegedly right
about about these girls. I think really raise serious.

Speaker 5 (01:28:14):
Questions, and the White House could fix all of this
and end this today.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
They just released all the files, but they're refusing to
do so.

Speaker 5 (01:28:22):
I mean, we just saw that Carolyn Levitt just recently
put out this long statement about, you know, upset that
we are somehow releasing some of these documents. Well, then
her boss today can release all the files and get
all of these questions answered and put this whole thing
to rest. But it's a White House cover up and
it's serious, and the American public should know that Donald

(01:28:43):
Trump has betrayed the public by saying he was going
to release them and now he's not right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
And I guess the other aspect in all of this, Congressman,
is I mean, this is a redacted name that's in
there that says that this is a victim who spent
hours way with Trump at Epstein's house. Congressman, that seems
to indicate something very serious, very very serious, And I

(01:29:14):
think you're absolutely right. It underlines the urgency for releasing
these files. And if the White House wants to take
issue with this, if Trump wants to take issue with this,
then release the files. Let us. But one of my
main takeaways from this congressman is that it appears he
is all over these files. Donald Trump is we.

Speaker 5 (01:29:34):
Think that's that's we think that's right. And obviously we
don't know. We haven't seen the files. We're getting our
direct emails and correspondence from the Epstein State from other sources.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
But we've had to fight to get all this released.

Speaker 5 (01:29:48):
It has not been because Republicans have somehow decided.

Speaker 4 (01:29:52):
To make these releases public.

Speaker 5 (01:29:53):
The subpoena isn't only in place because oversight Democrats had
to fight like hell to push Republicans to get this done.
We had a call for the EPSTEIN to state and
get a subpoena so that we're able to get these
actual documents. We would know little to nothing if it
was up left to Republicans. And so I believe that
Mike Johnson is now complicit in this cover up. He

(01:30:14):
obviously has stalled and trying to get Atahalva sat there
right now trying to I'm sure do everything they can
to kind of take off and encourage Republicans to come
off that petition.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
But the truth is going to come.

Speaker 5 (01:30:27):
Out, and let me tell you why, because there's enough
good men and women and the FBI and other agencies
that have actually worked on this case, that have put
these documents together, that have spent hours being being led
by a sense of justice and trying to get justice
for these survivors who were trafficked in many cases as

(01:30:48):
children and they were under age. And so this is
going to come out and we're not going to stop
until we get we got this justice for the for
the for the Epstein survivors and victims.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Yeah, in Congressman, this is also and I'll like Kate
asked question a second, but because she comes from a
legal standpoint which is terrific, but it also really calls
in a question what Galeainne Maxwell reportedly said to Todd
Blanche during this Kakamami meeting that they had before she
was transferred to a minimum security prison, where she swore
up and down that Donald Trump didn't do anything wrong.

(01:31:18):
In the April twenty eleven email, Epstein allegedly says that
Trump is the dog that hasn't barked and that he
spent hours at my house with a redacted name victim,
and then she replies, I have been thinking about that.
So it seems to me she has information.

Speaker 5 (01:31:39):
I think that's absolutely right, and that's why we want
her to come testify in front of the Oversight Committee.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
And look, we know she wants a part and she
wants a commutation.

Speaker 5 (01:31:46):
The DJ is secretly talking to her apparently about who
knows what. What I think the American public right now
understand is that Donald Trump and the White House are
covering up some apparently a massive information that would implicate
I think a lot of powerful men in this country,
maybe around the world. We know that in the initial

(01:32:09):
filing from the lead prosecutor in that in the in
the Acosta investigation that happened in Florida, we know that
the lead prosecutor had information that would essentially there would
be twenty other at least twenty other men that could
have had a really faced serious consequences had a Costa
allowed that execution in that case to move forward as

(01:32:30):
it should have.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
This is Alex Acosta, the US.

Speaker 5 (01:32:33):
Cost the US attorney in Florida, no relationship, and all
of this really raises serious questions.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
And Katie, you were going to ask a question.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Yeah, Congressman Garcia, it's always so good to see you.
I did want to talk about the congressional subpoenas, because
I did give props to you guys, because the Epstein
Estate is the only entity that is currently complying with
the lawful requirements of that congressional subpoena. We are getting
the tranches into House Oversight, but I wanted to kind
of get people up to speed on what the hell
is happening to that congressional subpoena that was served on

(01:33:03):
the Department of Justice. Putting aside out of Leader Grihava
getting sworn in as you should have been more than
two months ago and getting that discharge petition done and
you know, the full vote being set up. That was
still a lawful subpoena from House Oversight that theoretically was
supposed to be bipartisan with Comer, you know, signing on
to it and sending it over. Has anything else come
from DOJ?

Speaker 5 (01:33:24):
It has not, And that is what's really I think
for us, it's unacceptable, and that's why we're saying this
is a cover up.

Speaker 4 (01:33:30):
We have a subpoena in place.

Speaker 5 (01:33:31):
They sent us that first batch of documents, ninety seven
percent of which have already public documents. Yeah, we know
they have an enormous amount of materials, emails, photos, possibly
videos in their possession. It's time for them to comply
with the subpoena, and we're getting no support from the
House overset Republicans. They should be calling on the Department

(01:33:53):
of Justice to do the same, but they're not interested,
apparently in the truth. What we're focused on is the
survivors and the truth, and we're not going to stop till.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
We get it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
And Ryan, did you have a thought, because Ryan and
I were talking earlier about the Michael wolfangle and all
of this.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
Well, yeah, I wonder, Congressman, it's it's good. It's good
to see you. And you know, I have to point out, Congressman,
I know some of your staff, and you really have
some of the best people UH in the House. So
it's a real testament to you that you attract such
a gifted UH staffers up there on the hill. Can

(01:34:28):
you take us through and give us any of the highlights,
as you see it, of the sixteen pages that were
just released before you came on. We're just seeing them
for the first time, a little a little tough to decipher,
but anything that you think we should pay close attention
to or that stood out to you.

Speaker 5 (01:34:48):
Well, I think there's obviously some communication there between Steve
Bannon and I think that is really important. I think
there's we just released some additional some additional documents there
that show some some of the other appear to be
messaging text messaging that is in place there. We also
think we release some other additional emails. But remember there's

(01:35:08):
twenty three thousand pages, and so our intention is to
release all of it. And I think the bigger question
as it relates to the release it just came out
more documents that will come out later, we think today
and what we released this morning is they all point
back in many ways to Donald Trump or his associates

(01:35:30):
having relationships or being involved or asking questions or what
the president may have known or not known at the time.
Of course, he had not been elected yet. Glenne Maxwell
was clearly very involved in these communications. And when we
get to really see Michael Wolfe engaging directly with Jeffrey
Epstein about Trump and what he may have known and
his time spent spent with victims and survivors, and so

(01:35:53):
there is a lot there. Obviously, we have a lot
have had to have been redacted, which I know is
hard for some. We're trying to protect the victims and survivors,
but people should read all these documents for.

Speaker 4 (01:36:05):
Themselves and make those judgments.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
We think it's very interesting, and you need to talk
to Michael Wolfe. I assume too. I have to let
you go, but.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Yeah, we are. We've rus' we've been talking to everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
I think, got it. Congressman Robert Garcia, thank you so
much for your time. I know your time is limited,
but appreciate you stopping by. Best of luck with the investigation.
It seems to me there's more to come. Thanks so much,
there is all right, Thank you, thanks a lot, appreciate it. Wow, Well,
Ryan and Katie, I mean, I'm a little speechless, I

(01:36:38):
have to say. I mean, I just think that this
is unraveling, and it may be unraveling at a pace
that the White House cannot keep up with.

Speaker 3 (01:36:46):
Yeah, I mean, this is Epstein Day. So now you know,
sixteen pages, so almost twenty pages of emails. A lot
of well known people mentioned through out. Although the common
theme is uh Trump uh, these are all emails and
text messages that in some way relate to Trump. Uh.

(01:37:12):
Incoming Congresswoman Brahava uh is going to be sworn in
today as far as we know, that's going to uh,
you know, trigger a vote that will force the Justice
Department to release the documents they've been sitting on, and
that Trump himself has been insistent, uh that they not

(01:37:33):
come out. So, you know, a fairly significant day. I
wish he had shed a little bit more light on
the on the sixteen pages that this is there. You know,
I've been sifting through them while we've been talking, and
you know, they're they're they're going to require uh uh
some some you know, some some some careful study to

(01:37:53):
understand the dates and the personalities and and and you know,
what's uh, what's going on here? I've either of you, Katie,
you are off looking at them. Also, if either of
you picked up anything else that is is worth flagging.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
It, well, did you? You guys talked about the Steve Bannon,
the sender Steve Bannon thing, the actual message from June
third of twenty nineteen. Jim, y'all talk to me.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
It sounds like Orca was mentioning that these might be
texts texts.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
It looks like so it's the first page of the
sixteen page PDF, and you can see it, says sender
Steve Bannon. You see how it's it's a black box,
right there be your phone number twenty nineteen, four thirty
three am. And the message says, can't believe nobody is
making you. The connective tissue I see something like that,
And of course that means the common denominator, right, is

(01:38:44):
Jeffrey Epstein connecting all of these people? I mean, and
then of course there's a prior one that says to somebody,
message Prince Andrew and Trump today too funny, And then
another one recall Prince Andrew's accuser came out of mar
A Lago. I mean, it's all interconnected. But I just
wanted to remind people about Glen.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
In the dates or is that twenty nineteen, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Just making twenty nineteen June or twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
Before Jeffrey Epstein. Does he go to prison after these
texts occur? Is that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
He was indicted? I think Ryan was July right nineteen
he got indicted.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Yeah, great flag. I didn't even pick that up. So that, yeah,
that's this is the month before he's indicted by SDNY,
And so this is the walls are really closing in
on him at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
I also just want to remind people that Glaine Maxwell
was supposed to sit for her Congressional House Oversight deposition,
but then Comer gave an accommodation to Maxwell because she
had a pending petition to the Supreme Court of the
United States to take over her appeal concerning whether she
should have been a beneficiary of that non prosecution agreement
that Epstein got back in two thousand and eight that

(01:39:58):
had a we will not prosecute your co conspirators. Claus
Comer said, we will pump the brakes on your depot
and said we will reset it for a date after
the Supreme Court has ruled on your petition for rid
of cert That petition has now come and gone, when
the Supreme Court said we're not touching Epstein related shit.
So the fact that Glaiine Maxwell, instead of sitting down

(01:40:20):
to be able to be cross examined by people like
Robert Garcia and others, instead had that nine hour let
me braid our hair with you Todd Blanche moment, you know,
and Tallahassee and now is hanging out with you know,
pets and is doing all sorts of fun stuff in
her minimum security facility as she pitches for a commutation.

(01:40:40):
I mean, there is a reason why somebody like Glaiine
Maxwell has not sat in the proverbial hot seat to
answer the questions she should have been required to answer.
But for people like James Comer and others running interference.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
Yeah, yeah, Ryan, what are you?

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
It's an excellent point. Now, I'm just I'm trying to
decipher that the ban in text and just one you know,
small point is at this point, Bannon is out of
the White House. He was he was out in twenty seventeen.
But the fact that they're going back and forth and
talking about Epstein being the connective tissue, and you know,

(01:41:19):
these insider details that they have about Prince and the
accuser of Prince Andrew's and you know, assuming this is
true coming out of out of Mar A Lago, and
you know, this is at a point when Bannon. One
piece of helpful context I think I can provide is

(01:41:41):
this is at a point when Bannon has developed a
relationship with Epstein and actually sets up a camera and
it brings a crew to Epstein's mansion on the Upper
East Side there in New York and starts doing prep
sessions for a potential uh TV interview that he and

(01:42:05):
others were encouraging Epstein to do to start to push
back against allegations rehabilitate his reputation, and so uh Bannon was,
you know, it was part of this whole effort to
you know, basically help Epstein with pr in the in

(01:42:26):
the months before he was arrested. And all, you know,
all that is is detailed in a sort of fly
on the wall way in that in that chapter from
Michael Wolfe's book that we've we've been referencing, and this
is that this is that time period. So yeah, it's

(01:42:46):
certainly notable. And look, I know there's a cottage industry
of Epstein conspiracy theories out there, and I don't think
Steve Bannon telling him, I can't believe nobody is making
you the connective tissue will do anything to damp in
those conspiracy theories.

Speaker 1 (01:43:02):
That's right, and we should know it this time. You
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Yes, Sorry, sorry, there's a I don't know what page
this is in the PDF doc. I apologize, but it's
an email from Jeffrey Epstein's Disgusting Vacation email address, and
it was sent to the late Roy Black, who was
a renowned criminal defense attorney who was a part of
Jeffrey Epstein's criminal defense team, and when he was being
prosecuted in Florida, and the question to Roy was, quote,

(01:43:29):
who will represent Acosta at hearings, to which Roy responds,
this is February nineteenth, twenty seventeen. He will be by himself,
perhaps a Trump administration aide to assist and accompany him.
Jeffrey Epstein then forwards it to Read Winegarden, who is
his other lawyer at the time in twenty seventeen, and
again caveat being assuming arguendo. These are authentic emails. Buy
in between Roy Black, Jeffrey Epstein, and Read Winegarden. This

(01:43:52):
is important because Acosta just sat for his depot in September,
and I read all one hundred and ninety pages of
that depot transfer Attorney Stapf for house oversight.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
Alex.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Yeah, not Jim, no relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:44:04):
Alex.

Speaker 2 (01:44:04):
Acosta sat for the depot and he was, you know,
the US attorney for the Southern dist of Florida who
authorized that sweetheart plead deal for Donald Trump. Excuse me,
sorry for for Jeffrey Epstein. Sorry, but Acosta says it
wasn't a sweetheart deal, to which we all beg to differ.
But Acosta begged off saying that he didn't have any

(01:44:26):
type of communications really whatsoever dealing with the fact these
were dealing with his Senate confirmation hearing. So you if
you recall, he was the Secretary of Labor. So, I mean,
there's a lot of stuff going on here that intimates
that people like Jeffrey Epstein are paying attention to somebody
like Alex Acosta. Like, if you're not worried about what's happening,
if you're not worried about the dam breaking open for
information to flow, what is going on here that you're
actually keeping tabs on somebody like alex Acosta's confirmation hearing

(01:44:49):
to be the Secretary of Labor. These are the type
of things that pique more curiosity and create more questions
than provide answers.

Speaker 3 (01:44:57):
Yeah, it's going to take a while to sift through this.
I'm just you know. The other one that piqued my
interest is the from Jeffrey Epstein to a recipient that
is redacted, and the subject is, how are you send
this interview to Donald Trump? Please? It's going to be everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
Wow, and.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
The uh, I'm just trying to pull that interview up
here on YouTube and if the if my if my
computer has uh interpreted the link correctly, what comes up,
unfortunately is a private video. So we'll have to figure out,
uh yeah, some sleuthing. What exactly is that you know

(01:45:48):
all about? So I apologize to viewers who were watching
us trying to decode some of the stuff in real time.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
I mean, that's what we've been doing for the last
what three hours after this was release. Eat and Ryan,
you broke this along with some other great reporters who
reported on this this morning when the House Oversight Committee
Democrats put these these emails out, and it's just extraordinary.
It's a it's a treasure trove. I can use that

(01:46:18):
term of information. And we have to underline this. Put
it in bold, put it in italics, increase the font.
This is all information that was being kept from the
public for years before Donald Trump was a candidate for president,
while Donald Trump was a candidate for president, and after

(01:46:41):
he became president of the United States. And these these
these messages, these emails, these texts, they indicate that the
relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, and yes, he
has denied this was more than just a friendship, that
there is something there's there's some kind of there there

(01:47:03):
that we have to all get to the bottom of.
And as Congressman Robert Garcia was saying earlier, the ranking
Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, what did he say
at the very end of our interview, there is more
to come and that they have been obtaining this information
through the Jeffrey Epstein estate, not through the Justice Department,
through the Epstein estate. And guys, I mean to me,

(01:47:27):
these are this is these are bombshells for Donald Trump,
absolute bombshells.

Speaker 3 (01:47:35):
And again, the politics of this are so different than
every other issue that Trump has faced because you know,
just like we're doing, you know, live on air here,
going through these there are going to be you know,
all sorts of amateur saluts trying to figure out and

(01:47:56):
decipher these emails. And a lot of the people who
are in did in this subject, for whatever reason, happened
to be on the right and happened to be you know,
hardcore Donald Trump supporters. And it just goes back to
what we're talking about before. It's just the one issue
that you know, covering Trump for ten years and covering

(01:48:18):
this movement for ten years, it really is the only
issue I can think of that breaks the spell of
some of the MAGA diehards in a way that so
many other stories haven't. And I think the political context
is important here, Jim and Katie, and that is like

(01:48:39):
his popularity has been suffering, you know. I think some
people point to the destruction of the East Wing as
the as the tipping point, you know, Others the kind
of constant drip drip drip of the Epstein story. Just
obviously the general economic environment is bad. You know, Democrats
just want a huge election, uh you know a week

(01:49:02):
ago where affordability and inflation with the big issues. So
he is, he's not nearly as powerful as he was
a few months ago when he looked, you know, like
like a colossus colossus right and was just sort of
grabbing power on every front without a lot of of pushback.

(01:49:25):
We're at a different stage of his presidency now, so
this is you know, this is coming at a time
when you know, I don't wouldn't necessarily his say his
White House is in is in crisis politically, but it
is at a low point and all the pieces are
being put into place for you know, the Democrats to

(01:49:48):
have a have another good election uh next year. And
this is you know, this is just this unusual issue
that turns his own voters away when he tries to
uh you know, uh uh explain it away or tell

(01:50:09):
them that it's it's not important. Uh, they care about it?

Speaker 1 (01:50:13):
And how do they how do they vote to keep
these files a secret? Now, Katie, I just am.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Talking about making everybody Johnny on the spot for that one. Right,
it's publicly recorded vote. So what are you going to
say on this one when you.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
Meet your maker? When you meet your maker, are you
going to say I helped cover up the Epstein files?

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
Mike Johnson, you presume they're going to the great white
place up there.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
I mean, so, let's that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
But if you're if you're craven enough, though, you got
to figure out what counts for you. And I think
self preservation is going to kick in for a lot
of Republicans and they're going to say he's not worth it. Again,
there's a transactional loyalty with this guy. He's literally not
worth it. He's in it for himself. The let them,
Cake Great Gatsby energy that this guy is exuding. He's
a sinking ship and like all rats do. So I

(01:51:02):
don't know, we'll see, right, but this is a very
public vote that they're going to be on record for,
and let's see what happened. You can only say this
is just a distraction so many times before people are like, yeah,
but we're seeing this ourselves and we don't know how
much of a distraction this is.

Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
It's not a distraction anymore, folks. Well, I think we
should probably wrap it there and Ryan will let you
do your investigative work and Katie do your investigative work.
And guys, this has been phenomenal reporting and coverage this morning.
I appreciate both of you taking the time to do
this and everybody watching, and of course a Congressman Robert
Garcia for taking his time as well. But really, thank you, guys,

(01:51:42):
both of you really appreciate it. I can't hold you
all day as much as I would like to, but everybody,
thank you so much for watching. This has been a
Jimi Consta show special report. Along with Katie Fang, Ryan
Elizabeth tell Us News at Substack Independent Journalism. That's what
we're bringing to you here this morning independent media coverage
of what might be the biggest threat to Donald Trump's

(01:52:05):
presidency thus far, just incredible bombshell emails released by the
houseover Side Democrats this morning. Thank you guys very much
for watching. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have
a great day, See you, sir, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:52:18):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:52:18):
Ryan