Stuart Stevens

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, everybody, welcome to the Jim Acosta Show, and
it is breaking news. We've been covering it all day long.
We were with you earlier this morning. We're going to
bring it to you live now once again. The breaking news.
In Epstein Gate, Democrats in the House of Representatives released
a small batch of emails allegedly written by Jeffrey Epstein
that claimed that Donald Trump had quote spent hours at

(00:30):
my house, referring at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a quote
victim whose name was redacted in one message. In the
same email purportedly by Epstein in twenty eleven, the child
sex offender wrote to his longtime accomplice Gallaine Maxwell that
Trump was the quote dog that hasn't barked. Joining me
now to talk about this. Congressman Eric Swalwell, Democrat of California, Congressman,

(00:51):
I mean, let's just jump right into this. You're heading
back to the Capitol now as we speak.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Just landed, Yeah, come to California this morning, just landed.
And no surprise here, right. I mean, it was always
about Epstein. That's why the government was shut down, That's
why people were not paid for forty plus days. That's
why our economy came to a screeching halt and here
we are.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah. Well, and that was something that you heard from
the White House and the Republicans, that it was Democrats
who shut down the government, even though you're not in
the majority really anywhere in Washington. You hope to be
in after twenty twenty six. But I know you've made
this case on several occasions that you believe Mike Johnson
was very instrumental in this, and that Congress was shut
down in the House in particular, was shut down to

(01:37):
avoid releasing the Epstein files.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was an Epstein's shutdown because I've been in shutdowns.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Before, and whether it was a.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Republican speaker or a Democratic speaker, one thing was always true.
Congress was in session every day of the shutdown to
try and force a deal. Because when you're in depression,
you're around your colleague and you're working and you're interacting
with them, and you're held accountable by the press who
are asking, like, what's the.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Deal going to be?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
That forces a deal, and you know what the stakes
are of the people who are suffering here. Unlike any
other shutdown in the past, Johnson just went on vacation
for fifty plus days. Congress was not in session, and
the only logical conclusion Jim was that if we were
in session, he would be forced to swear in Adelita Grijalva,

(02:29):
who would be the two hundred and eighteen vote to
force a vote on the Epstein files. And everything I've
heard from my Republican colleagues is that protect them from
taking that vote. But if that vote is public, they
absolutely are going to vote to release the files. So
she's going to be sworn in today, that vote's going
to be public imminently, and my prediction is that almost

(02:49):
every single Republican is going to vote to release it,
especially in light of what we just learned today.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, and they're freaking out over at the White House.
Trump put out a true social post that was based
warning Republicans, don't defect, don't be part of this attempt
to distract from the public is as there should be
no deflections to Epstein or anything else, and any Republicans
involved should be focused only on opening up our country
and fixing the massive damage caused by the Democrats. I mean,

(03:17):
with an exclamation point to my.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Republican colleagues, I would just say, you do not have
to be an accomplice to child sex trafficking, like you
may have signed up for a lot, you know, with
how far you're going to go with Donald Trump, but
you don't have to protect Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, and I mean some of these revelations are just
I mean, they're just damning, and they seem Donald Trump
is all over these emails, their text messages between we
were showing this earlier this morning, apparently between Epstein and
Steve Bannon. Some of these were going on in twenty nineteen.
The email, though, the original email that I wrote, or

(03:53):
they're right at the beginning of this goes all the
way back to twenty eleven, April of twenty eleven, before
Trump was a candidate for president, before he was really
involved in politics that much. I guess he was spreading
the birth or conspiracy maybe back then that's sort of thing.
But Epstein Maxwell are talking about this, and she says,
I've been thinking about that, the fact that Trump is
not the dog. He's not the He's the dog that

(04:14):
hasn't barked yet.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
And we always knew, Jim, that they were connected, that
they were friends. You know, it felt like there were
more photos of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein than Donald
Trump and anyone in his family. And it now makes
a lot of sense as to why Mike Johnson and
everyone else who has access to the files, like Cash

(04:37):
Mattel worked so hard to take the shovels out and
bury this evidence so far beneath the earth because it
was not going to look good when we learned how
close they are.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
How closely they are connected. And by the way, this
is a movement of his own doing.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Like he is the one who for many years, almost
a decade, promised.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
That there.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
He ran on describe this was like bake cake files
are the fly. It's an ingredient of the movement coming
home to roost because his promise they would learn who
are in those files.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
And we're learning that Donald Trump is closer than any
of us even had imagined.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Right, And apparently there's this Uh And for folks who
are just tuning, we came on a little early because
Congressman Swall was available. Apparently there's an effort going on
to try to convince some of these Republicans in the House,
people like Lauren Bobert Nancy Mace, to see if they'll
switch their votes. Apparently Nancy Mayce has come out and
said that that's not going to happen. But Lauren Bobert,

(05:47):
I mean, the White House, I believe, did confirm that
they have been putting pressure on Lauren Bobert.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
She's the most likely.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Frankly, I know all of these characters, she's the most
likely to flip. She's the weakest, the least mature, the
most susceptible to pressure from the White House. But look
at it's all coming out, Jim like that. That's what
we're learning here. It's all coming out. We can either
do it, you know, through a congressional subpoena or the
Epstein Estate will continue to provide it, or we can

(06:16):
be in the majority in a year and it'll come out.
But also, just so your viewers know, in about a month,
we are going to swear in another Democratic member of
Congress who is going to fill the Sylvester Turner seat
from Houston.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
So we're going to have that two hundred and eighteenth vote.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
And so it's better for the sake of transparency and
just owning up to it, for the American people to
do it now rather than to try and again keep
this buried.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, and I mean the effort to keep autolite Rialva
out of the House of Representatives. I mean it's what sick.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Never seen anything that before.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, like that she gets elected in a special election
and they just flat out don't swear her in. And
apparently I heard from one of the Epstein survivors today
that some of them are going down there to attend
her swearing. And this is going to be a big moment.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
I'll be there shortly. It's going to happen eminently. I'm
going to head into my office, change and head over
to the floor. But it's a long time coming. Frankly,
I've told our leadership that, you know, every day that
Johnson refused to swear in Atalita is a day that
we should add up and refuse to.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Swear in Johnson when we're in the majority.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Like, there has to be consequences for what he did here,
and they should not think it's so easy to do this.
And I also fear, if I'm being completely honest, that
this is a little bit of a dry run for
not accepting the results of the twenty twenty six mid
term election.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
And they were essentially trying to see.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
What was the pain tolerance of our caucus and the
country to not swear in a legitimately elected member of Congress.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And I know you got to run, but very quickly,
just your thoughts on the shutdown. Apparently it's going to
come to an en I guess. I guess the Republicans
will have enough votes because they're in the majority to
pass this thing. What took place in the Senate with
some of those Democrats cross Remember, what do you think
of all that?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Well, we need stronger leaders in times like these. You know,
the voters and our constituents, they were counting on us
to be champions for lower health care costs, and they
knew that Democrats that we were fighting to reduce the
cost of health insurance. Republicans weren't willing to open up
the Congress, and now we know why, in part to

(08:25):
protect the president from the Epstein files. And so you
could even say they were for the files and we
were for the food. They chose files, We chose the food.
We had the high ground. People were with us. There
was a midterm elect or the off your election in
the midst of all of this, and it was a
wipeout for Republicans.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
So I don't understand why anyone's.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Interpretation would be, well, when you hold all of the cards,
that's the best time to fold. So you know, those
Senate Democrats have a right to explain their vote, but
I also have a right to share my piece, and
that piece is we need stronger leaders, and times like
these they reveal two things.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Who should lead and who should leave?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah. No, and I mean and just very quick, I mean,
imagine how much more leverage you would have today if
they had just held out a few more days, with
with this Epstein stuff coming out.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's absolutely right, that absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Even more leverage. Congress me erics Wall. It looks like
you've arrived at the Capitol, the Capitol. Live in the
car there is. We'll let you get to work. I
know exactly where you're parked right now. Looks like you're
in between cannon and one of the other's exactly right.
I still got still I kind of have it, but

(09:40):
I know you still got it. Thanks a lot, I
appreciate thanks to Congressman Eric's Wall Wall of California. And
you know, there was a I'm gonna have Stu Stevens
coming up in just a few moments. Uh, with the
Lincoln Project, Lincoln Square, former Republican strategists, author of some
great books on this current moment that we're in right now. Uh,
and we're gonna get Stew's you know, takes on all

(10:03):
of this in just a few moments. But we have
to point out and I get a chance to talk
about this with Congressman Swallowell because he was running over
to Autoly Degriovaz swearing in. That's gonna be happening any
moment now. She is the Arizona congressman elect who was
voted in by her constituents in that district six or
seven weeks ago, and House Speaker Mike Johnson refused to

(10:26):
swear her in because he knew that she was going
to be the decisive vote, the two hundred and eighteenth
decisive vote to go on this discharge petition, a legislative
maneuver to force the release of the Epstein files. Now,
of course, if and when that happens, the question will
become does the Justice Department turn it over? I again,

(10:49):
Donald Trump does not listen to if another, if one
branch of government says they have to do something, he
does not listen. And they don't listen. So that's one
piece of the drama that we're gonna have to keep
our eyes on. But another piece of the drum played
out in the White House briefing room earlier today, where
the Press Secretary Caroline Lovitt you almost feel sorry. I
did not feel sorry for I'm just going to stay

(11:10):
from the very beginning, I did not feel sorry for her,
but you almost do, because she had to go in
there and take some questions, and she barely took any
questions from legitimate news outlets as she took questions from
the from the ringers, the sycophants, the apologists that they've
stocked the White House Briefing room with these days. But
she was asked about some of these emails, and let's
play a little bit of what she said.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
Emails that have been released by Hels Democrats.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Separate from why you believe the emails were made.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
Public, can you address their substance?

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Did the President ever spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house
with a victims? These emails prove absolutely nothing other than
the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. And what
President Trump has always said is that he was from
Palm Beach and so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was
amber at mar A Lago until President Trump kicked him

(12:02):
out because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was
a creep.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Sure, so there you go. That's that's been the White
House line for some time now. For folks who follow
this very closely, you will know that that's that is
what aid after aid, A spokesperson after a spokesperson for
Donald Trump has said repeatedly that you know, this is
why Donald Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of his club.

(12:28):
Now there's some question as to whether or not Epstein
was in fact a member of the club. There were
some other documents and emails that we were looking at
earlier today where it was indicated Jeffrey Epstein was saying
that he was not a member. So that I mean
that there's there's a lot to sift through. I was
talking with Congressman Robert Garcia earlier today. He is the

(12:49):
ranking member in the House Oversight Committee, and he was saying,
this is why we need Gallaine Maxwell to testify. Gallaine
Maxwell the longtime confident confident of Jeffrey Epstein. She's now
currently in a minimum security prison in Texas. She got
that little housing situation from the Trump administration after she

(13:10):
told Todd Blanche, top official Justice Department exactly what he
and Donald Trump wanted to hear. She basically said, Oh,
Donald Trump didn't do anything wrong. Can I get out
now please, was essentially with the gist of her comments.
And now, of course we have these emails. Here's the
one from April second of twenty eleven, A very important email.

(13:33):
I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't
barked is Trump victim redacted name, spent hours at my
home with him, at my house with him. He has
never once been mentioned, police chief, etc. I'm seventy five
percent there. And then she says, I have been thinking

(13:54):
about that. Now. What you just heard Caroline Levett say
a few moments ago was that the mail actually exonerates
Donald Trump, which it does not does not do that.
It absolutely does not do that. And this is the
jam that they're in right now. The jam that they're
in right now is that they need you, the American people,

(14:17):
people around the world who are watching, to not believe
your eyes and ears, to not believe what you're reading
in an email that goes all the way back to
twenty eleven.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
This is before.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Donald Trump really got involved in national politics. He was
somebody who just yapped on TV from time to time.
That's true. He was not a candidate until twenty fifteen,
and there are emails from that time period as well.
There was an email from December of twenty fifteen between
the author, Michael Wolfe and Jeffrey Epstein, allegedly in which

(14:50):
it is claimed and there it is right there, there's
the Michael Wolfe female December fifteenth, twenty fifteen. Now this
is five six months after Trump has announced he's running
for president. I hear CNN planning to as Trump tonight
about his relationship with you, either on the air or
in a scrum afterwards. And then, Jeffrey Epstein, if you
didn't watch your coverage earlier today, I'll go over a

(15:11):
lot of this again. Jee vacation at gmail dot com.
If that's not a disgusting email address, I don't know
what is. And Epstein responds to Michael wolf if we
were to craft an answer for him, what would it be?
And Michael wolf goes on to say in that email,
I think you should let him hang himself if he
says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house,

(15:33):
then that gives you a valuable pr and political currency.
You can hang him in a way that potentially generates
a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks
like he could win, you could save him generating a debt.
Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say,
Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw
deal as a victim of in a Trump regime. What's

(15:54):
important about all of this is that Michael Wolfe appears
to be I'm just going to say it. You know,
Michael wl might disagree with this characterization. He's welcome to
come on if he wants to. Michael wolf is basically
coaching Jeffrey Epstein on how to handle all this. Let's
bring in our friend Stuart Stevens and Lincoln Project Lincoln Square,

(16:14):
author of some great books on this current crisis that
we're in stud Good to see again, good man, what
a day.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
I just want to take this opportunity to remind you
that my old party is to family values party. Just
don't don't ever, don't ever man where it was. As
Peggy Noonan famously wrote about Ronald Reagan characterist king. You know,
we haven't drifted away from that at all. It's still
right there, a centerpiece to everything that Republicans believe.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
You know, No kings though, No kings.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yeah, what's what's a little pedophilia between friends?

Speaker 1 (16:49):
You know? Man? Man, but and and and I mean
these emails. You've been in politics a long time, You've
covered a lot of this as a as an observer
in a right and so on. This is some wild shit, I.

Speaker 5 (17:03):
Says, wild shit. Yeah. Look, the thing that I go
back to about Trumpet is the most depressing is we
knew so much before we elected him the first time.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yes, you know, and.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
We certainly knew a lot before we elected him the
second time. And you know, I really blamed the Republican
Party for this, because parties in our system have to
be a circuit breaker, and this party should have come
forward and said, no, we're not doing this if it
means we lose an election. We lose an election. There's
something more important than that. And you know, I don't

(17:42):
listen to the Senate, listen to these members of how
many senators are going to say Republican senators going to
say anything about this?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
I think very few, how many Republican governors out there
are going to say this is outrageous.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's like the sign on the factory wall. Days without
an accident, days without a comment from a Republican criticizing Trump.

Speaker 5 (18:03):
It's it's it's really extraordinary. And I think it's just
a collapse of a party unlike anything that we've seen,
I mean, certainly in modern history. I'm not sure going
back when there's been as much.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
And the part of it, part of this is to do
is we're watching this in real time, so we don't
know where this is going. Robert Garcia on earlier Today's
the ranking Democrat very aggressive on the houseover Side Committee.
He said, there's more coming, There's more coming.

Speaker 5 (18:30):
Well, look, I mean, at a certain point you have
to say, just give me a break. What do we
know about Donald Trump? Yeah, this is a guy talked
in public repeatedly about dating his own daughter. Okay, I mean,
this is a guy who you know, has pictures of
himself with models everywhere. You know, a guy who I mean,

(18:54):
the following is a true statement. Donald Trump had sex
with a porn star four months after his youngest son
was born to his third wife, who he met while
married to his second wife, and while they were he
still married, his second wife talked to New York Post
about how great sex was. And this was after his
first wife. He had an affair with his second wife.

(19:19):
So I mean that's too. Donald Trump is and the
guy that you know had Miss teen Universe contest, you know,
I mean, he's a total sleeze back.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, and you would think that. I mean the Republicans,
you know, they go along with access Hollywood he gets
in office. I mean, and some of these emails, by
the way, that were reported on today occurred in twenty nineteen,
So I mean, this is you know, some of these

(19:53):
emails are when Trump is a candidate in twenty fifteen,
when he's president twenty nine. I mean, you know, some
of this stuff, the timeline is wild. But every step
of the way, you're absolute rights to Republican leaders have
stomached this, have gone along with this. Here are some
texts between Epstein and Bennett allegedly in twenty nineteen. This

(20:15):
is months before Epstein allegedly committed suicide, and Bannon says
to Epstein, can't believe nobody is making you the connective
tissue between himself and Donald Trump, and you know they've
just gone along with it every step of the way.
Mike Johnson keeping the house shut down.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
You know, if we put a picture Steve Bannet up
there and you would say this guy was texting with
Jeffrey Epstein, you wouldn't say, No, he doesn't look the
part at all.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
You know, these these are just horrible people. And you
know the stuff that we used to say in the
party that go back toing Clinton and the Monica Lewinski thing.
You know, uh, when when uh William Bennett was writing
the Book of Virtue, when there was this sort of

(21:08):
universal outcry that the reason this is important is because
the White House, the Oval office is more than an
executive position. It is the heart and soul of the
country and embody something. And I can tell you, Jim,
you know all the ads that we made in the
Bush two thousand campaign, I mean all of that, the
ones pretty much only that worked were the ones toward

(21:31):
George Bush was saying he would restore honor and dignity
to the White House. Yeah, and that really resonated with people.
And that's ultimately why Al Gore lost.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I remember when Bush called Clinton the shadow? Didn't he
call him the shadow? The shadow hanging over? And then
you worked for somebody who was who I think is
one of the most decent human beings I've ever covered
in politics, Met Romney. And you know, there's a tragedy here.
There's tragedy for all of this.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
Place for a Romney in the party. There's no place
for a Chaineing in the party. You know, I think
it's a it's it's it's a fascinating story that once
you accept the unacceptable, it's just a slippery slope down,
you know, from going from the outrage of access Hollywood
to accept supporting him, which people did within you know, days,

(22:23):
if they spoke out. That is a barrier, an exit
ramp and gateway drug to saying Donald Trump won the
twenty twenty election. Because you know, once you're willing to
say things and embody things you know are not true,

(22:45):
you know are in some way evil, then what's another?
You know, you just keep saying it. And you know what,
I think one great truth that Donald Trump realized about
the Republican Party is that if he would give them

(23:05):
power everything that they believed, they would go against everything
they said. They believed that that was the deal, the
ultimate Faustian bargain. And he was right. And I think
that's why he ran as a Republican, not as a Democrat.
I mean he'd been a lifelong Democrat, and he realized

(23:25):
that the Democratic Party I could they wouldn't accept this,
but I could do this in the Republican Party. And
you know, if you go back to sixteen, Donald Suan
was always benefited from inability to imagine Donald Trump. All
of those candidates, I mean you covered this brilliantly, were
up there, those fifteen other candidates beating the crap out

(23:48):
of each other because all you wanted to do was
get to be one on one with Donald Trump, because
the party was not going to vote for a guy
that talked about Dati his daughter, don't be ridiculous, a
micro casino guy, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
And then Trump just completely said i'mine even going to
participate in the debates in the twenty twenty four campaign,
and the party let them off the hook on that
every step of the way.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
Yeah, that makes I know the reason I wrote this
book called It Was All a Lot, Yeah, great book.
There was a group in my world of bush World
when Trump first emerged, and one that they wanted to
say to Trump, hijack the party. I never got this because,
like the hijacker is not popular on the plane, nobody

(24:30):
goes like, hey, we're not going to Grandma's, We're going
to Cuba. Fantastic great beats in wait, you know, and
Donald Trump was wildly popular. And there's nothing today that
stops any of these people from going in front of
a microphone and saying no enough, this is it. And
you know, in apparently you have a situation where the

(24:53):
Vice President of the United States, this thing about this
is sitting around in his office twenty nine hundred pages
of just the most awf full, horrible, ugly, anti semitic,
racist chats between you know, human beings in their twenties
and thirties, right these you know, old enough to be
elected to the Senate. I mean, you know, these are

(25:14):
not children. These are not just a bunch of kids.
This is in the dorm room discussion, you know, while
everybody's like drunk or stoned, these are adults, some office holders.
And so what's fascinating about this not that that happened,
but that jd. Vance was sitting around his office and said,
you know, somebody's got to stand up for Nazis, and

(25:36):
I'm going to go be the guy.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's InCred And you got the Heritage Foundation sticking up
for Tucker, Carlsschuk across.

Speaker 5 (25:42):
And a nine to eleven Truther, a Russian shill. And
so why does Dad E Vans do that? You know,
if data advance is nothing if not a crafty opportunist
who is willing to remake himself is whatever he needs
to be at that moment. He thinks to advance himself
when it was convenient to be you know this, this

(26:04):
you know self invented Appalachian hillbilly. I find I'll be that.
Better to be a global tech advisor with Peter Tell fine,
I'll be that. You know, I'll live in San Francisco.
I'll be that. Now now he's this moves back to Ohio,
I'm going to be this. The reason he did it
is because he felt, without some you know, good cause,

(26:26):
that he could advance himself in the party by defending Nazis.
That the the litmus tests in the party have become
who can be more transgressive? Like I'm going to say
more and more nasty stuff and no enemies to my right,
and I'm not gonna have any sense of shame. I'm
not gonna have any sense of decency, any sense of

(26:46):
of what this says about me. And this is how
you and you know, is anybody in the in the
Republican Party going to really speak out about this? And
I don't. I really wonder.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
And that leads me to this question, which is is
there an exit ramp for the Republican Party or is
this now Thelma and Louise time off going off Louise time.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
I mean, look, uh, there are thousands of hours of
video and thousands of photographs that the FBI seized with Epstein,
and I do think there's some possibility that if one
of those was so undeniable and so grotesque as and

(27:31):
I'm sure they existed at one point, then that might
be enough. But short of that, ah, Now, this is
what the party wants to be. The party never cared
about family values.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Well, yeah, and that's what you've written brilliantly about in
your book. It was all a lie. It was that
is that that that in particular was one of the
biggest lies, the foundation of it all being a lie,
and you know, the question that that comes to my
mind is you know there and you know this as

(28:07):
a strategist. Campaign strateng is when you don't have control
of the information, when you don't have a lid on
what could come out. When I was talking to Robert
Garcia earlier today, he was saying, there's more coming out,
that they had to go to the Epstein estate to
get this stuff, the stuff that was brought out today.
And so there are other avenues for investigators to retrieve
and obtain information other than going through Cash Bettel and

(28:30):
Pambody and the corrupt people over at the f behind
the Justice Department, which is a terrible place to be
if you're at the White House, if you're somebody who's
hog tied himself to Donald Trump, it's a terrible place
to be.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
Yeah, And you know, can we just palster and think
about this. The president's personal criminal attorney, Just president has
a personal criminal attorney. Thinking about that, you know? Yeah?
And Todd Bland, Yeah, lost started. Todd talked about it.
Who lost thirty four the case which his client was

(29:03):
convicted of thirty four felonies counter felonies, gets on a plane,
flies and me with the most notorious pedophile alive today.
It's called Maxwell. And when you read that transcript, it
is just sickening the way that he is. It's I
don't understand. It's like so clearly coaxing a witness.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Not loading leading, romancing the witness.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yes, yes, And what happens she gets to move to
a club fet where she can take yoga lessons and
have a dog. So this is the part the party
is protect. It's an end. She's clearly negotiating for a pardon, right,
and she clearly knows stuff that is negotiating for pardon.
And you know what was Donald Trump's reaction when she

(29:51):
was arrested all the record at the podium in the
White House. I wish her well.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
I wish her well.

Speaker 5 (29:59):
I mean, you know, it is one of these moments
that we've we've known over and over and over again
where you look at it and you go, why didn't
this end it? Why didn't it end it? When he made,
you know, mocked a disabled reporter. Why when he said
that John McCain wasn't a hero. Why when all of
this stuff. Yeah, and then the most agree to this

(30:23):
as the insurrection, and this is what you end up
with and it is a but people forget you know
about mesostophiles that not only takes your soul, he doesn't deliver.
And that I think is what you know, you began
to see last Tuesday where Trump can't save these people,

(30:45):
and he's pushed the party to a point where who
is the politics takes a message in a messenger? What
is the message they have that is appealing? And who
is the messenger? I mean they were they did have immigration,
but they've just taken it to this point with this
sort of comic book Ghougle of Stephen Miller, where yeah,

(31:11):
you know, I really don't think you could go to
the reddest County and at the Kawanis Club they would
feel good about watching video of mothers being dragged from
their cars and children being zip tied, that's right, you know,
with by masked men.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
I think after water on immigration.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
And look, I and how is that video going to
feel five years from now, ten years from now if
Trump blows himself up as we now see it potentially happening,
maybe sooner rather than later. And they look at this
video of all of these horrendous things that he talked
to party into doing, like you know, pepper sprang babies

(31:57):
in the face like that happened the other day, and
driving off with the kid in the car that happened
the other day. How is all that going to feel?
How's that all going to go down?

Speaker 5 (32:06):
You know, this has been one of my great uh
the questions I've asked because you know, I know I
helped election and these people, you know, getting elected to
the US Senate is it real pain? And he asked,
you have to go through a lot of degrading stuff,
meet a lot of people you're earlier that me, have
to beg for money. Okay, finally you get elected and
what you're there so you can do whatever Donald Trump

(32:28):
tells you. Really, that was made it all worthwhile. And
you know most of these politicians they.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Have being a center is supposed to be cool, you
know above that, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:37):
You know, what's what's the reward here? And the most
politicians have really big egos, which it's great, I mean,
so do god those writers do so do you know, athletes, artists.
We haven't shot anybody all day for that. But go
to the point you said, why isn't that their ego? Text?
How is this going to be seen? And it's not
just Epstein, it's it's all of this. It's the denial

(33:01):
of the election. It's it's the horrible ice mass thugs
out there. How is this going to be not ten
years from there, but how is it going to look?
And you know what I've said to the few people
that will still talk to me an ever decreasing number,
is this is segregation. And you know, nobody remembers Mississippi

(33:23):
Senator Jim Eastland, my former senator, for you know, the
roads that he built or that bridge. They remember him
because he was a segregationist. Yeah, and that they are
going to be trumpest and that's what they're going to
be remembered for.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
And we should know. Just the last few minutes, Audalite
to Griova. She has been sworn in as a member
of Congress. She's now a member of Congress. They find
she won yeah, six or seven weeks ago. I know,
it almost seems like we're reporting on the like a
former Soviet union.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
No, it's like this is a news item.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, it's like, Wow, democracy has come back to America.

Speaker 5 (34:00):
You know, we're gonna like it got to be sworn in. Wow,
I didn't know that shit still happened.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, God it bizarre.

Speaker 5 (34:10):
World goes to the normalization here that that we slowly
began to accept. You know, Joyce Fance just published a
brilliant book, uh where she talks about this how the
decline of democracy becomes normalized in these smaller, small steps.
And you know, I think about my dad. He was

(34:31):
an FBI agent. The idea that he would go out
of the house and put on a mask and run
around and zip tied children, and and to have a
boss like Castpatel, I mean Caspateel, you know, I mean
and Caspateel. We've forgot about Don Vongo because Casptell is

(34:52):
so bad. Don Bongino, I don't understand how the guy
gets your t s a all the alarms, like, what
a weird Wait a second, let's have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, and but you and I've talked about this before.
The reason why Trump has these people there who don't
belong there is because they'll do is bidding and he
needs those there's so damaged goods. They can't get these
kinds of gigs and in any other way unless they
go work for him. And when they get there, he's
got them.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
It's a great League. You know, he had to be
inside the party. But all these people around Trump, it's
not like they woke up in twenty fifteen. He said,
you'd be interesting to get involved in presidential politics. They
all wanted to before. We just wouldn't let him in.
I mean, Kelly and Conway really don't call you really no,
I don't think so. You know Cory Landowski, you know,

(35:44):
I asked you know the note once, you know, a
few years ago he said, well, you know, I know Corey.
I go, what how do you know him? And he goes, well,
he was a part time marine officer in New Hampshire
and he had to inspect my boat. I said, well,
what did you think? And he goes, well he pass
my boat. You know that man, that's Cory Lewandowski, who

(36:05):
was famous in political circles. When he was a staffer
at New Hampshire Republican Party. He had the veriant idea
of debating a cutout of a Democratic Good entorial candidate,
and the consensus was to cut out one's Steve Bannon.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Steve Bannon, I mean I I that goes three shirts
with the three pens.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
You know, he wanted to be involved in the making
of films that we did for the Bush campaign, and
all of these people Gorka, they're just you know, they're
just freaks. Uh, And he let them in and they
know that they can't have any other like position. It's
a it's a mobster management theory. Yeah that you know,

(36:45):
get in my mob and you know you'll get what
falls off the truck. And otherwise, you know, you'd either
be in jail or you'd be working some minimum waste job.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah. And I think, and getting back to the here
and now, the next forty eight seventy two hours are
going to be so interesting. Does a Republican go by
the wayside and doesn't go along with this discharge petition?
What is this process going to look like if it
does pass? Does the White House say, you know, we're

(37:15):
not going to give you that shit anyway? Well, this
is this case, it starts to feel a little Nixon
End of Days much so. Yeah, you know, if I was.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
Advising Democratic collected officials, I would say I would load
up a plane and I would fly to Louisiana and
I would stand in front of Mike Johnson's church and
demand that he help reveal who the greatest pedophile scandal
of our time. I mean, this is someone his wife

(37:48):
works for this church as a business.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
There.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
This is somebody saying this is you know, confront it,
Make them see it, make them eat it, because there's
not real anybody going to that church that wants to
protect pedophiles except for Mike Johnson and you know stickts.
Make them eat it, and it's.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, there's really no other choice at this point. A
bunch of rubbed their noses.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
And rubbed their nose and this is who you are
and if you accept it, you're not h I think
it would be effective because I still think that there's
an element of peer pressure. You know, there was that
case where you know, the head of ICE, Tom Holman,

(38:39):
his in this small town. He lives in upstate New York.
Ice went in grabbed a guy who was a much
loved member of the community and his neighbors and this
a small town, were outraged by it. And this guy
was released. You know, he has to live in that town,
or wants to live in that town. That's where he
grew up. And I think these matter, and you have

(39:01):
to really personalize this stuff because these aren't big policy questions.
This isn't like you know, should capital gains be thirty
twenty eight percent?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Fifty year mortgages?

Speaker 5 (39:12):
These are fundamental issues of right and wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I just it's about what Joe Biden used to talk
about the soul of America.

Speaker 5 (39:23):
Yeah, it is, it is. It is the soul of
America and the idea that this it's it's what you know,
the Guthrie famous saying, you know, this isn't a political issue.
This isn't isn't about one party or a partisan issue.
How could it be a partisan issue? And I don't know,

(39:47):
you know, I mean I've known John Thune since he
was executive director of the Republican Party in South Dakota.
Great guy. You know, he wouldn't have let Jeffrey Epstein
in his house, you know, And yet he's going along
with this. Really, so I think it's a it's a
moral parable and there is a great lesson for us,

(40:09):
and that is, once that you began to accept the unacceptable,
where do you stop?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, that's right. And and when you mentioned John Thune,
it makes me think of Howard Baker who famously he
was the one who went to Nixon and said it's
it's over, it's done.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
Lost it yeah. You know, you go back and you
look at that, and you look at those hearings, which
actually did the other day. It's it's like artifacts and
the law civilization, you know, it's it's like what's in
the Mayans or something like go through rituals, like there
really were people like this in both parties that would

(40:49):
do this, that that you cared enough, and I those
days are those days are gone?

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah? Yeah, but you know, I hope, I hope.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
I hope the truth will come out here and that
enough Republicans can keep enough pressure. You know, self preservation
is better than anyone covering a million. Politicians is the
ultimate motivator in politics. And to the degree that they
have to defend this.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, you know, usually they're behind them until they're not. Yeah, exactly,
and we all get to watch. We all get to
watch Stu. Great to see as always. I was a
conversation which we did it every day, but that would
drive you nuts. But that means a lot that you
come on and I love hanging out.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I love what you're doing. I watch it all the
time and keep it out there.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Man. Thanks man, we'll do it all right.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Good to see you.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Ill you so much. Stuart Stevens, Great Stuart Stevens, author
of the book It was All a lie. And he
has others too, folks. And you know, Stu is an
important guest in this moment. And you know Trump and
the Republicans, they go off on the never Trump Republicans.
And you know, I used to hear this in corporate media.

(42:15):
You know, you guys don't have enough Republicans on you.
You should have more Republicans on. I have Republicans on.
They just happened to not like Donald Trump, and I
have Republicans on all the time on this show. They
just happened to not like Donald Trump. They happened to
care about this country. They happen to care about the Constitution,

(42:35):
they happen to care about our democracy. And it wasn't
that long ago. Stu was talking about watching the Watergate
tapes as if you're looking at a different civilization, and
that I think that is true. But it should also
be pointed out that Barack Obama and John Bayner, for example,

(42:57):
had a pretty darn good relationship. People don't realize that
we were told this after the fact. They would fight
like hel in front of the cameras then, but they
were friends got along with one another. Ronald Reagan tib O'Neill,
another famous relationship across partisan lines. Republicans and Democrats can coexist.

(43:19):
And I know that sounds insane to hear those words
coming out of my mouth. Modern day Republican Party can
take a hell of a lot of work for us
to get back to that point. But when one party
gets behind a want to be dictator, I want to
be authoritarian, who is morally bankrupt, who is now surfacing
in emails in the most ungodly ways possible. This is

(43:47):
a wake up call. This is a wake up call
to anybody. Mayday, mayday sos, Is there anybody in the
Republican Party? Blink twice if you hear me. It is
time to come home. It is time to come back

(44:08):
to America. It is time to come back to the
real world. It is time to leave Donald Trump's side.
It is time to come back to America's side. And
the question that you have to ask yourselves in this moment,
at this critical time, is do you want to attach

(44:30):
yourself to the Titanic? Was the Titanic was on TV?
I turn it on for a few minutes and I
watched and I'm thinking to myself, my God, these poor
people Republicans right now have a choice. They don't have
to board the Titanic. They don't have to figure out
whether or not there are enough lifeboats, they don't have

(44:52):
to figure out whether the water will be warm enough.
I won't have to worry about any of that have
time to not board the Titanic. Some of them we
all know, we all know who they are. They're gonna
get on that goddamn Titanic even if they know it's
going down. But one has to think there are enough

(45:16):
of them. Goes back to what stew is saying about
self preservation. Who at least think about it from their
own standpoint and want to save their own ass? And
do you really want to go down with this guy?
Do you really want to go down with him? Because
this ship sure as hell looks like it's going down.

(45:40):
May not be right now, But when the email from
twenty eleven, I repeat the email from twenty eleven says
that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump victim, spent

(46:00):
hours at my house with him. He has never once
been mentioned police chief, etc. Gallaine Maxwell, I have been
thinking about that the White House tried, Donald Trump is
going to try. There is no way to make.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
This work for him.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Go through the other emails, go through the other documents,
the birthday letter, and it goes on and on and on,
and look at what they're doing today, Caroline Levin, Oh no, no,
this shows that he didn't do anything. And yet the
White House is trying to talk Lauren Bobert into not

(46:42):
going along with the discharge petition. At some point, it's
as plain as the nose on your face. It's as
plain as the Titanic sitting at the dock, the fog
horn going off, the signal going to the masses, but

(47:05):
it's about to pull out to see who's going to
get on board, because that ship, sure as how, it
looks like it's going down. My thanks to Congressman Eric swallwell,
my thanks to Stuart Stevens, my thanks to all of you.
A programming note, and thirty minutes from now, we're going
to do another special edition of this program, but in

(47:32):
in coordination and in partnership with my friend Miles Taylor,
who has started up a very important organization called Defiance.
He is brought to bear.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
For this effort.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Some very important people including acting legend Robert Danira, who
I spoke with and we're going to play a little
bit of that conversation. And Miles has some other terrific
guests lined up. We have former Congressman Joe Walsh, we
have former congress Dick got Part, lots of others lined
up to speak with us. That's in thirty minutes from

(48:05):
now at five o'clock Eastern on all of our channels, Substack, YouTube,
et cetera, and so how we watch us. Make sure
you tune in for that. But in the meantime, thanks
everybody for watching earlier this morning during our special live
coverage with the Congressman Robert Garcia, Katie Fang, and Ryan Liza.
In the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm gonna go

(48:27):
to drink of water, pet Duke and take a break.
I'll see you in about thirty minutes from now, Still
report of Washington. I'm Jim Acosta, Season