The Secret Sign Trump's People Know He's Not Fit

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The President of the United States seemed to be sleep
in an event in the Oval Office for about twenty
minutes the other day.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Where are the questions about that? Who is actually in
charge here?

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Because that can't be the first time the president fell asley?

Speaker 2 (00:14):
You know how I know because they.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Didn't better eye, They didn't think that is not the
first time the president fellasley.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
So when that happens, who is making the decisions?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm Johanna Coles.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
This is the Daily Beast podcast, and my guest today
has been inside more political war rooms than any of
us could ever dream of. Simone Sanders Townsend works for
Bernie Biden and Carmela a trifecta that gives her a
front row seat to the theater, the tantrums, and the
tactics of American politics. She's now co host of the

(00:51):
Weeknight on MSNBC or ms now as They're about to
call themselves, where she brings the same sharp instincts she
wants you used behind the podium to the screen. Simone, welcome.
We could not have a better person to discuss what
the hell is going on in the Democratic Party. You
are National Press Secretary for Bernie Sanders. You were a

(01:13):
senior advisor to Joe Biden, and then you were press
secretary for Carmela or ahead of time.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I was a senior advisor and her chief spokesperson for
the vice president, and I was a deputy assistant to
the president.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
So I've seen it all.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
You've seen it all, and we find ourselves in the
most I think surprising moment. I was not anticipating that
eight Democrats would vote with the Republicans to at least
in the Senate, to move on with the shutdown, to
close the shutdown. I mean, we've got other Democrats calling

(01:47):
them defectors.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
What the hell is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, look, Diana, I was sitting watching with bated breath yesterday,
just like everyone else.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Trying to understand if this was true.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
As I was running my errands on Sunday, I'm texting
with and calling senators that I know, just really trying
to parse through the tea leaves and read what's going on.
And what I gathered is the culmination of what we
saw last night is that a number of Democrats, many
of them, I think almost all of them, none of
them are up for reelection next cycle.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Many of them are retiring.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Right, Dick DAP who's number two in the state. Right
he's retiring.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
And what was clear to me is that folks felt
that the pain that people were feeling all across this country,
whether it was pain because you don't know when your
SNAP benefits are coming because the President has decided not
to fund SNAP, whether it's the pain of standing in

(02:49):
a food line all across this country.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Because you don't know when your next check is coming.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Whatever, whether it's the pain of you know, your flight
being delayed or canceled five minutes for you're supposed to
get on, or if you're an air traffic controller who
literally cannot afford to keep doing the job of three
people when you yourself are not getting paid, whatever that
pain is, that those eight Democrats felt that the pain
was too much, and too much pain, too much time

(03:18):
had passed, and that they needed to cut a deal
and compromise. Now, my takeaway from this is two things. One,
the hostage taking that the White House engaged in over
the last couple of weeks, it worked, you know, and
I say that because the White House made a decision
not too fun SNAP. Why because they thought and you know,
these eight Democrats in the Senate, I think underscore that

(03:40):
that was a they're thinking was correct. They thought that
the using the hunger of people in this country would
bring Democrats back to the table.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Now I think they thought Chuck.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Schumer would be the one to fold and would lead
the caucus in doing it that way. But that is
not how it happens. So what I think the hostage
taking work. I would also underscore that the chaos we've
been seeing in the airline industry is a manufactured crisis.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
But it worked.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
But how does this work in terms of the Democrats leadership?
Because you've got Governor Newsom in California, You've got Richie
Torres in New York saying this is surrender, this is
unconditional surrender. How do you think Donald Trump is going
to use this against the Democrats.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
I don't think it's smart politics, and I don't think
it's a good policy because it's the same deal the
Senator Thune offered Democrats a couple of weeks ago, and
they didn't take it. I mean, yesterday, the people were
with the Democrats. They believe them, and so what do
you tell the folks who have suffered for the last
forty days that, yes, you were fighting for them, but
the fight has ended with nothing but a pinky promise.

(04:44):
And I think that that's a key question. I think
that that's a key question. And so I think it's
not just Gavin Newsom and Richie Torres right who are upset.
I think a lot of people who have been doing
the hard work of electing Democrats up and down the
ballot over the last couple of months and special elections
and then they culminated on Tuesday and this off off
yr election. Those people are like, wait, what are we doing?

(05:06):
Mikey Cheryl the governor elect of New Jersey. She was
on CBS this morning on Sunday morning and she was
asked by Marcat Brennan directly, she said, Marcat Brennan asked her,
why would the promise of a vote not be enough
and I'm paraphrasing here not be a good deal? And
the governor elect, who currently serves in the House of Representatives,

(05:27):
she said, a promise is not enough. It's not enough
to promise to subsidies. They need to actually.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Vote on it in whatever is presented.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
And so I guess I would underscore that it's not
good politics, it's not good policy, and the people who
again made.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
This you know decision. These these eight.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Members of Congress, of the House, of of of the
Senate are are people who are are not going to
really feel any consequences for what they've what they've done electorally.
But for everyone else, if you're a person that you know,
really that cannot is already counting your co wits across
the country, you can't afford for your premium to goo up.

(06:07):
In what universe are we going to believe that the
Republican Party apparatus, this current version the House, led by
Mike Johnson, who has already said he's never going to
be he's not going to have promise anything. Three days ago,
four days ago at this point he said he's not
going to promise any vote on subsidies. He's just going
to let the process play out. Why would you believe

(06:28):
that a vote is going to happen in the Senate
and the House and then get to Donald and then
a bill is going to get to Donald Trump's decks desk.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
That's a lot of.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Faith to put into the hands of people who have
been unwilling to stand up for themselves. As a colleco
branch of government. I'm talking about Republicans of Congress.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
So you are the national press spokesperson for Senator Bernie Sanders.
If you were in Trump's press organization, now, how would
do you be spinning this.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Now, Joanna? I don't.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I don't think there's a universe Wow, I ever be
in Donald Trump's press orbit.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
I don't think so either, that the skills are the same.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Oh, I think they're going to say that Democrats caved. Right,
to be very clear, They're going to say Democrats caved.
They finally come to the table. They're being adults now.
And I think Caroline Levet is going to stand in
front of that podium today and tomorrow and say, these
eight Democrats that came to the table understood what I've
been saying for weeks. It was not good politics, nor

(07:27):
is it good policy. Because up until yesterday, the Republicans
were being in Congress, were being blamed for the shutdown.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
How do you think this decision reflects on the fact
that the Democrats just had a victorious sweep last week
On Tuesday, I mean, they were riding high.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
There was energy.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
People were saying, Oh, finally the Democrats have got their
right together. They're coming back. They've got energy that united.
I think this is quite unusual. I don't remember, at
least recently Demos attacking each other like they are doing now.
The unconditional surrender language is really unusual for Democrats to

(08:08):
attack each other. Normally that's reserved for the other party.
But now you've got them against each other.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
I mean, there are the things I was seeing being
lobbed last night on social media in my inbox.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I was to be frank.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
I was, on one hand shocked, But on the other hand,
I'm not shocked because the stakes are very high.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
In this moment.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
And look, Democrats in the House and the Senate, they
are in the minority.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
When you're in the minority.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
The majority party, they don't actually need you for anything.
And this Republican Party apparatus, this iteration of this Republican
Congress with Donald Trump as president and the second term,
has demonstrated that.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Has gone through great links to demonstrate that.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
But the one thing they do need Democrats for in
this iteration, because there is the sixty vote threshold in
the Senate, is to fund the government. They do need
the Democrats to do that. Republicans do not have sixty votes.
They must compromise. And I think the issue that a
lot of voters have across the country, and the language
is so strong, frankly from some of these other members

(09:13):
of the Democratic Party apparatus, is because it's like these
members threw their leverage away after forty days for what
they didn't get anything. And I think that if there
was something of note that they got, and I know
that this in this cr that was passed, they got
a promise that people who were riffed i e. Fired

(09:34):
while they were furloughed, that those people would be reinstated,
which is important. And they also got to promise that
people if there's ever another.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Furlough, people will never be riffed again.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay, well did Donald Trump know about disegotiation because he
is a person, you know, John though last I checked,
didn't didn't riff anyone, didn't fire anybody, dismiss them from
their federal you know, their job within the federal government.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
The president did.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
And to be very clear, Russell vote did did anybody
get Russell vote de signed on to this because what
regularly happens is the members of Congress will get together
and pass something and do something right, and then the
White House led by Russell Vote is saying we're.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Not gonna do that. We're gonna do this.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
We're gonna take the money from here, We're gonna take
the money from there. We're not gonna fund this, We're
gonna fund this. They don't actually get to decide that.
And so the I think the issue that a lot
of folks have is you're putting a lot of faith
into some with and a lot of trusted to individuals
who one could argue are not actually in the driver's seat.
Because John Thune agreed to that, the members agreed to that,

(10:35):
but what about the president and Russell vote. No, nobody
likes democratic and fighting, to be very clear. But sometimes
you know there's a big tent, you know, you know,
Thanksgiving it's coming up, Joanna, Sometimes you got.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
To have a family conversation.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Now, I think what's unfortunate is the family conversation is
playing out in the public, on the internet and in
the airwaves.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
But it's a tough day to be a senator, Joanna,
very tough, very tough.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Sata.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
I mean, I guess the senators who got to within
the Republicans to end the shutdown, and of course it's
still going to go through the Congress.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
But what did they gain from this?

Speaker 1 (11:09):
They said that they got some promises about people who
had been who were furloughed and had been fired, and
they got those folks reinstated, and they got a promise
of a vote on the Affordable Care Act subsidies in December.
And they'll say that this means that SNAP is going
to be funded, Wick.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Will be funded, head starts are going to open, like
head starts all across the country. Your clothes.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Right now, there are families that had to go to
work today and people who did not know what they
were going to be able to do with their children
right unless they were you know, if your child is
not of school age per se, like what are you doing?
Child care is already too expensive in this country. And
so they would say that they that they alleviated the
pain for people across this country because there was they

(11:53):
were at an impass, there was no other choice. We'll
see if that is an effective and sufficient argument for
folks across the country. It's not in a sufficient argument
for me, okay, But I'm not one of their constituents,
so we'll see what their constituents say. Again, I say
one other thing, Joanna, because I was this whole conversation

(12:13):
that we're having now about affordability, and it's like everyone
has woken up that affordability.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Is an issue.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
This is an extension of a conversation we were actually
having in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. Right, remember
when Joe Biden had to Build Back Better plan, And
I was one of the people that was very critical
that people didn't know what build back Better was by
twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, so you got
to ditch the language.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
But part two of Build Back Better was about the care.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Economy, affordability, the affordability crisis, just the care economy by
another name, And just a couple years ago, just five
years ago, there was not the political will from most
elected leaders in this country, in the House, in the Senate,
whether they be Democrats or Republicans, to address that crisis.
And now we are living with the ramifications of not

(12:59):
doing that.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Perhaps we would not be in this such dire place
if on one of Donald Trump wasn't president because of.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
The tariffs, but two, if you know some legislation was
actually passed in twenty twenty one or in twenty twenty
two that actually affected the things that deal with people's
everyday lives first. So I mean, I think that there's
a lot of soul searching, frankly that's going on today
and the primaries that are happening in the mid term
sext year, and the Democratic side of the aisle, you
are going to see an emergence of people who are

(13:27):
willing to fight versus those that are not and how
do you fight? And those are the kind of conversations
I think we're going.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
To see playing out in Maine, in.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
North Carolina, right where there are two very important primate
in Ohio, right where Democrats shared brown Is could potentially
get back his Senate seat, right in Texas, where I
do believe, you know, if John corn is not a
Republican nominee and Kim Paxton is Democrat, that is that
seat isn't play. These are the kind of conversations that

(13:56):
are going to play out across the country and in
some of these house races competitive housephrass So the people
that you hear saying, ah, what are your Democrats doing?
This is not what the people want. Those are folks
that understand where the pulse of the Democratic.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Voters are, and that matters.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
John Assoff is the most vulnerable Senate Democrat for reelection
next cycle.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
He is in Georgia. And yesterday afternoon when I.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Saw the John Alsoff was a no, I was like, oh, okay,
the pulse is still there. John Alsoff has his finger
on the pulse. I don't think he is continuing. He
voted no just on principle. He is understanding where the
constituents are.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And so I think people.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Should take a look at what the leadership of the DSCC,
the Democratic Sedenitorial Campaign Committee, how they voted.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Christian Jillibrand leads that effort. She is the head of
that effort this cycle. One of the vice chairs is
Senator Lisa Blut Rochester out of Delaware. How did they vote?
Where did they come down? What are they saying over
the next couple of days. Because these are the individuals, yes,
Chuck Schumer as well, but like these are the folks
who are doing the everyday work of trying to take

(15:05):
back the Senate for the Democrats. So Chow Joanna, it
doesn't make sense. Okay, some of it just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Does the Democratic Party need new leadership and where is
it going to come from?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I would argue that that's a lot of questions. What
are we talking about? It are we talking about in
the House and the Senate or nationally?

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Governor Newsom, like him or love him, is emerging as
the dominant Democratic figure right now. You've got a lot
of people circling around Chuck Schumer's saying he has to go.
Nancy Pelosi is just announced she's retiring, And in terms
of the sort of polling, Governor Newsom, with his funny

(15:45):
tweets and his confidence in speaking out and apparently saying
what he believes, appears to be leading the pack.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Now.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Of course it's incredibly early, but the fact that Karmala
Harris was nowhere to be seen in the Virginia governor's race,
were to be seen in the New Jersey governor's race,
I mean, there seems to be a vacancy and he
appears to be stepping into it. And then there's Governor
Pritsko running close behind.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Well, look, I think that when people I don't think
that Democrats right now need a leader to lead them
out of the wilderness, right I think that there are
many national figures and leaders that are emerging. I would
add to that list, Governor Wes Moore, I would add
that there are a lot of champions on the House side,
frankly of the Isle and excuse me in Congress, that

(16:32):
are our leading voices.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
But none of them have the visibility because part of
this is about just the ability to get attention and
the ability to be seen. And you may be right
that these are emerging figures, but none of them have
the prominence that Governor Newsom or JB.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Pritsker have at the moment.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
But I mean, what's more, he's a governor too, he
has the prominence.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
I just I would argue that Democrats, a lot Democrats,
and I think a lot of people who are watching
Democratic Party politics are saying, ah, who's going to be
the leader that's going to step up and take the mantle?
And in an off to be very clear, when you've
lost a presidential election, you don't actually have a leader.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
That's actually how it works. When you lose the presidential
you don't have a leader.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
You got a lot of people that say they want
to be the leader of the Democratic Party apparatus of
the situation.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
You say that, but in fact Donald Trump remained the
head of the Republican Party after he lost the election, right,
I mean the party became his party.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well on the Republican side of the aisle. Yeah, that
worked for them. They have, I mean, he has been
dominant in Republican Party politics for the last ten years.
They never walked away from the Republican Party apparatus, never
walked away from Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
They never turned the page.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Frankly, I think Democrats, on the other hand, they, I
mean very prominent Democrats, participated in the very public ousting
of the sitting president, the Democratic nominee last cycle to
be like this is where we are, and so that
to me says that these two parties are one of
the reasons that these two parties are not like the other.
But when it comes to Democratic party politics, usually when

(18:07):
you lose there you are kind of in the wilderness
for a little bit. And the way you come out
of the wilderness is you go win some more elections
and then different leadership emerges.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Gavin Newsom is doing a great job. JB.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Pritzker is doing a really good job. I would argue
Wes Moore is doing a good job. There are democratic
governors in this country, like the Democratic governor is a
holding the line. We don't talk a lot about her
right now, but Gretchen Whitmer, she's leading in Michigan. So
what could some of those people be the leader that

(18:39):
Democrats are looking for? Could any of those people end
up being the Democratic nominee? Yes, but I also think
that the Democratic nominee for twenty twenty eight could potentially
be someone that we haven't even.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Heard of yet. But I also believe I'm the honest Joanna.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
I'm concerned about the elections in twenty twenty six and
what those elections look like.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
And I am not sure sure what twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Eight is going to pretend given everything that is happening.
We don't talk enough about what's going on on the
electoral on the just the electoral administration side here, but
this administration has taken up something called election integrity. They've
installed election deniers into key positions in the Department of

(19:23):
Homeland Security. They are asking states all across this country
to give them their voter file data and threatening them
withholding funds if they do not do that. They are
attempting to take over the election infrastructure in this country. Now.
Just last night, the President pardoned all the fake electors,
the people who are part of the fake elector's scheme
from twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Do you think the Republicans are going to fiddle with
the elections? Do you think they're going to actually either
make sure some of them don't happen, or how do
you think that's going to happen? What's the mechanism?

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I think they're fiddling with the elections right now. That's
what the mid decade redistricting is about. That the President
was concerned ab about them. This is just from reporting
that I have seen and stories that I know that
the President was concerned about the about the ability to
retain the House specifically earlier this year, and said, okay,
well we need to do something about this. And that
is why they called up Texas and asked them to

(20:15):
find him five seats, and.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Texas did that.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
They are now they've all now also called up Indiana
and Missouri.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
That is a that is a part of.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
It, right, But California's responded to that with its own
gerry mandering or redistricting, right mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
But that's not that there's no guarantee that any of
this will be enough. But the point is is that
it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
The president of the United States cannot call should not
cannot call up a governor of another state and say, hey,
I'm going the way the maps are right now, I'm
going to lose the election next year. Can you find
me five more seats so it makes it more likely
I win.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
That is a form of.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Of That is a form of tampering with the elect
He's tampering with the maps. He's trying to engineer, re
engineered the system so it is better for him the election.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
The poll monitors that they sent out right.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
These are all these are all test cases and trial balloons.
I don't know if they're going to physically, you know,
tamper with the votes.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I don't think that it has to go that far.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I think the infrastructure of elections in this country, and
and and the very the attempts to tinker and tamper
with the election infrastructure in this country is enough to
give me pass.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Okay, So let me take you to Carolyn Leaf at
the White House press spokesperson, who is very much a
representative of what's going on in the White House. You've
been a press secretary, what do you think of her?
We know that Donald Trump calls her machine gun lips.

(21:48):
He's always talking about her lips. What do you think
about what comes out of her lips?

Speaker 1 (21:53):
I think the Caroline Levett is being graded on a
curve that would and I think all the a lot
of the Trump people are frankly great on a curve
that would never be afforded to like they would have
never been afforded to Joe Biden and would never be
afforded to insert any other Democratic president that's there.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Well, it does not mean I think she's been greater
on a curve. She's not a fact.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
She gets up there and she she will she will
not tell the truth and lie.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
She will lie. She is lied from the podium before.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
And when she lies, she says it with authority and
then moves on to the next person and sometend.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
A lot of times the reporters in the press briefing.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Room do not press her, I would argue, as of late,
when it comes to what is happening with the government
shutdown and snap, the reporters have been a little more
pointed in their questioning because it.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Wasn't it's just not adding up and it's not making sense.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
But I think that just because one speaks with authority, right,
this is the this is the Trumpism of it. All. Right,
you speak with authority, you seem to be in command
of what you're saying, and it's like, okay, so the
content doesn't matter. You're accessible to the reporters, right, Because
that's one of the arguments from the from a lot
of folks in the White House Press corps. Well, you know,
by and wasn't really accessible. Donald Trump is very accessible

(23:02):
Caroline Levit. You know we can get answers from her.
Is the accessibility the point or the information? And I
think that they have found this Trump White House found
a very willing participant in Caroline Levitt. Was she knew
at the job? Has she ever been a press secretary before? No?

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Was she a comms person?

Speaker 3 (23:20):
No?

Speaker 1 (23:21):
But she is a soldier. And that is what those
are the requirements for the Trump administration right now. They
don't necessarily care about your qualifications. They care if you're
going to toe the line for the President and defend
him in his agenda at all costs.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And if that is the barometer of which she is
being great, then she's she's hitting.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
All the marks because regardless of what it is, she
concedes nothing. She will relent nothing. There's nothing they ever
did wrong. She'll stand up on a podium and say
things that are in direct contradiction that what a Captain
secretary just put out or just said somewhere else, and
it's like, oh, well, Caroline Levi said it, so it
must be true.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
So if you are grading her, what grade would you give.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
A very very low Marx? I mean, I guess I
give a D. They're lying, they're lying. I give a D.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I gon't give a F because you know, like I
give a D, because she stands up there regularly and
doesn't tell the truth.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
But part of that is not only on her. The
people who.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Are asking the questions have to be about the business
of asking the questions without in the briefing room, without
fear of favor. And the reality is is that this
particular White House has punished reporters. It wasn't that long
ago that we were all talking about the Associated Press
and the fact that they were being excluded from not

(24:40):
just press briefings, but like they were excluded from anything
with the president, the wires, the Associated press not being
in the room, and what was the public response from
the other reporters in the room. They literally would walk
into rooms where the associated press.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Was kept out of and not even ask a question
on their behalf.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
So I do think that the reporter in the briefing
room are struggling through their own way of how can
they effectively do their jobs.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
In this environment?

Speaker 1 (25:08):
And Caroline Levitt and Donald Trump understand that very much.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
So.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
The President is nothing if not a master marketer.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I will absolutely give him that, And they understand pain points,
They clearly understand leverage. Just to be clear, Johanna, I've
worked with all of these reporters when I was at
the White House. I just you know, some of the
things they allow the Trump folks to get away with,
some of the answers, they just let them.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Walk away from.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I am a gas because I'm like, that would have
never happened a year ago. That would have never been
sufficient a year ago. The President of the United States
seemed to be sleep in an event in the Oval
Office for about twenty minutes the other day, and then
someone who was at that press conference passed out behind

(25:55):
him and he stood up. It didn't even didn't even
turn around to check on him. I think the President
just woke up. I don't know what happened. Where are
the questions about that? This is what I'm talking about
being graded on the curvas like we all just moved
on now. To his credit, he came back when they
finally resumed the president and he seemed very alert in away.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
I don't know if he got a.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Celsius, a red bull ap, a cup of green tea
or an espresso. But are you y'all seriously trying to
tell me that if Joe Biden was sleep in the
Oval office for twenty minutes on camera, that wouldn't have
been the only thing. No reporter would would have asked
questions and said, excuse me, excuse me, it seems like
the president.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Is sleep Simon, And you mentioned Trump falling asleep for
twenty minutes in the White House. Is that a national
security concern?

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think it could be for sure. To me, when
I saw that, it made me. It brought up the
questions again about, Okay, what is the what is the
actual apparatus of.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
This White House? Who was actually in charge here?

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Because that can't be the first time the president fell asleep.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know how, I know because they didn't batter eye,
They didn't think that is that.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Is not the first time the president fell asleep. So
when that happens, who is making the decisions? I think
about when I've got my notebook here, when the president
was doing these public signings with these executive orders and
they come in and they explain to him what the
executive order is, and he's like.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Oh, okay, yeah, well sir, is that the first time
you Is this the first time you're hearing about this?

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Did the president not get did the president sign off
of this in advance? Who is signing off on the
particulars of what is happening in this White House? I
harken back to Stephen Miller a couple of weeks ago
doing interviews with reporters, and he was using terms like
I and we. When I worked at the White House,
it is not I or we. It is the president,

(27:44):
the president and the vice president. But you serve at
the pleasure of the president, and so we're using I statements.
Are you the one making the decision, Steven Miller about
these strikeforce teams? How much aware is the president of
what is going on? These are all questions I think
that deserve to be asked, and he fell asleep for
twenty minutes and it wasn't even a wasn't even a

(28:06):
blip Joe Biden. If Joe Biden was sleep for twenty
minutes in front of the bro cameras, baby, it would
be it would be breaking news for three weeks.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
There's a lot of argument, and you've referred to it
that Donald Trump is available and he's transparent in terms
of what his plans are. When you were at the
White House, was there an attempt to shield Joe Biden
from the press and from the public because he wasn't
up to the job.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
So I would say no, And I worked in the
White House in the first year, and I know that
there are you know, people have many thoughts about what
happened that year and then in years after in that
Biden White House. But I will say it's my understanding
that the thought was and that they didn't they didn't
prioritize legacy media and legacy press like they didn't and

(28:54):
by day, I mean some of the advisors to the
president didn't think that the Sunday shows, for example, were important.
That you know, that's a relic of the past. Now,
I think that there's arguments to be.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Made either way.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
But on one hand, you are still you got to
play In my opinion, you have to play ball, right,
So whether you think they're important or not, some people
are still watching them, and the press Corps thinks it's important.
So if you don't give them anything, you give them
room to say a whole lot of extra things.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
So you have to give them some kind of access
their thought. And again, advisors to the President.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
When I worked at the White House, I thought was, well,
he does a lot of gaggles and so you know,
he goes over, he speaks to the reporters. But did
he do for a lot of formal sit downs? No,
and did he not?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
And I think the thought that he didn't do them
because he couldn't is wrong. I think the reality is
he didn't do them because he didn't want to.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
And maybe that's just a tougher like that's just like
a oh, that's maybe a little more crass way to
a crass explanation. But in knowing the president President Biden,
and and knowing the people that around that were around
him at the time, and having spoken to him many
times since I had left the White House and recently,
I think that that is true.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's not that he couldn't.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
I don't think he wanted to, and frankly, I don't
think some of the people around him wanted him to.
Because remember when way back when Joe Biden did that,
he did a press conference. It was one of a
few press conferences that he did at the White House,
and it was maybe forty minutes, and it was during
that press conference where he essentially said that he doesn't
know how Vladimir Putin could continue to be the president

(30:28):
once this is all over of Russia. And then the
next morning or the next day, actually afternoon, people tried
to walk back staff or walking back the president's comments.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
To be clear, Joe Biden said what.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
A lot of people actually believed to be true, what
he believes to be true, but the.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Staff didn't like his answer.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
And I just think, like, well, the president of the
United States, this happens with Donald Trump a lot too.
Like Donald Trump will say some things and sometimes the
staff doesn't like the answer. Privately they'll be like oh,
but the difference is publicly they'll defend him. I think
that whether you like what the press where, do you
like the unfilteredness the president or not.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
At the end of the day, they.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Are, in fact the president, but nobody is kept Joe
Biden in a box and was like, you can't do this.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
So let me ask you something.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
When we saw him at the now infamous debate with
Donald Trump, he didn't appear to be capable of finishing
certain sentences. That can't be the first time that that
had happened to him. Do people in the White House
know that he couldn't do this? I don't understand how
he could get to that debate in that condition. And

(31:29):
people in the White House have not seen that.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
I had never seen that when I had worked for
Joe Biden and I was looking at the debate shocked
just as much as everyone else. Texting the people whom
I know had been in debate prep and said, well,
what is going on?

Speaker 2 (31:45):
And they all said the same thing. Right, he has
a cold. He's been traveling.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
But again, this goes back to the mechanics, as you were,
you want to put your candidate in the best position
to succeed.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
So if you remember, the president had just done these
back to back trips to.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
Europe, he'd had ten days at count David to prepare
though he.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Was out campaigning domestically.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
I just don't think that schedule voted well for what
they had going on.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Okay, so you just pointed out that Donald Trump fell
asleep for twenty minutes in the White House. He's also
had a crazy schedule.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Should there be an age cush of for the president?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
I'm not going to go so far to say like, oh,
if you were you know, X amount of age, you
can't be the president. But I do think that this
is what primaries are for, right, This is what this is.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
This is the way our system is set up.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
That the people get their opportunity to evaluate who they
think the president should be.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And I do think that that is what primaries are for.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Primaries are supposed to be a rigorous that is a
test of the candidate, so you know, if they're up
to the case, up to the challenger.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Now, should there have been a primary for the successor
to Joe Biden? You mean, after he steps aside, after
he decided he wasn't going to be the Democratic nominee.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Well, after that infamous debate.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Okay, after the infamous debate, he was still the nominee
up until July.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
But the fact the infamous debate pushed him into eventually
having to step aside.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I just I just don't know when a primary would have.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Been had, Well, you would have had it to the DNC, right,
you would have had an open convention.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
And how do people think that would have worked out?
I just I think that.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
It sounds good, but I think mechanically, you know, I
used to be a DNC member. I was a DNC
member for about five almost six years, and so the
mechanics of the of the Democratic National Committee and the membership,
there's like five hundred some there's a couple one hundred
delegates that will make the decision that would have made

(33:41):
the decision.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
About who the nominee is.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I don't think the strongest position for the party and
the candidates on the ticket up and down the ballot,
not just the top, but I'm thinking, you know, the
House members, so on and so forth, the state legislative folks,
would have been to have a wide, open convention where
you did know what was going to what was going
to be the culmination of that, and then you would
have because the conventionals at the end of August essentially,

(34:05):
so you would have September, October and November to run
a robust campaign and win.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
I think that that is.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Bad politics and it's just unfounded.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
You worked for Kamalo Harris. She isn't running for governor
of California, and what appears to be happening is that
she's gearing up to run again in twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Should she I think that she should do whatever she
wants to do.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
The question I think a lot of people are asking, well,
do you think that she will?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Should she run? Because do you think she can win?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I think if Kamala Harris decides to run for president,
knowing her, it is because she has calculated that she
can win the race in a primary that she can
become the Democratic nominee.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Again, it's too early to tell.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I think these midterm of elections frankly coming up, will
we'll give a better roadmap of kind of where people
are and then what the vice president does in those midterms. Remember,
going back to twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, nobody thought Joe
Biden was going to be the Democratic nominee. I know,
I interviewed with all those people and I ended up
working for Joe Biden. They were like he is the
last person that's going to win this race.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Was it that made you change your mind?

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I think the president had a very then Vice President
Biden had a very clear reasoning for why he was
in the race and what he wanted to do, and
he had relationship with people in the States that I
think that I thought would bode well for him. He
had a very clear vision on what he wanted to
do that was a little inspiring but also pragmatic, and

(35:34):
no one Democratic primary voters like this is what they're
looking for. And his proximity and association to Barack Obama
very much so helped him to be very clear.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
You know, he served for their eight years. Look, I
think that Kamla Harrison, she could be.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
The nominee in twenty twenty part of me twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Maybe the primary is going to be very robust.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
And again, at this time, prior to two thousand and eight,
we didn't.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Know it was going to be Barack Obama.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Everybody I was going to be heather In Clinton, and
then Obama emerged and things happened within that primary and
he came out victorious as a Democratic nominee and went
on to become president.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
So she could be.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
It could be her, but it could also be somebody else.
I just think, though, given what we deal with right now,
anybody that thinks they want to be president, put your
name in the hat, honey go. The people that are saying, well,
Kamala Harris should not run again, well, I don't think
Kamala Harris is the reason she lost her race. To
be honest, I think the people that were run Kamala
Harris's campaign made very strategic missteps that resulted in the

(36:36):
race not being victorious. How you got a billion dollars
advertised you you spending money advertising on the spear, but
people organizers in Nevada and Arizona organizing African American Latino
communities can't get their budgets approved.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Make it make sense? It doesn't, okay, And.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
We see how it all worked out. So I just
think that she could be one. But I also think
it's a very large undertaking. You made the point earlier
that she wasn't on the campaign trail in Virginia and
New Jersey, And if I were one of the folks
advising the Virginia New Jersey campaign, I wouldn't have asked
for her because that is a look back, like these

(37:13):
campaigns should not have been about relitigating what has happened.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
And it was too fresh for voters.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
So we'll see what Vice President Harris does over the
next couple of months and weeks. Is she out there
on the campaign trail and the midterms for folks? She
was out there for Prop fifty, she was at the rally,
she raised money for it, She was a part of
the media campaigns. But what else does she do in
these midterm elections? Where is she asked a campaign.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Okay, so you'll know a co host on MSNBC, are
you planning to get back into the races in twenty
twenty eight? Do you want to go back into the
White House again if you can find the winning counterdate.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm very happy with what I'm doing now, Joanna, and
I do not desire to go back on the campaign trail.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Look, when I left the White House in at.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
The end of twenty twenty one beginning of twenty twenty two,
I left on my own volition, right, you know, people
asked me to stay. I could have stayed, but I
wanted to do something different. And when I came to
MSNBC soon to be MS now this was me making
a pivot. I love politics, I love campaigns.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
I also love media, and when I left.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
The White House, I decided that I didn't want to
like go away right. I didn't want to, but I
wanted to go do something where I could still be impactful, influential,
have conversations and just be a part of this ethos
and apparatus. And what we do with the weekend night
every Monday through Friday is we are having those real conversations.
I was in Cleveland about a week and a half

(38:42):
ago and people were coming up to me at this event.
I was for one of my mentors, and they said.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Oh, I feel like I know you.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
We have dinner together every night, and that is what
we want. When people are sitting down watching our show,
they are sitting down, they're having dinner with us, to
having their cocktail.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Or their water or their juice or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
They're drinking their meal and we are discussing what happened
that day, what's going on in the in the world,
and the ethos of politics, and we're giving our take
and our analysis, and we hope that you walk away
with just a little bit of a deeper understanding or
thinking about something differently. Maybe another show didn't show you.
So No, I'm very happy with what I'm doing now.

(39:20):
I just you know, I'm not trying to leave my
free makeup Joanna. I just there's nothing meeth that is
going to take.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Me away from the from the front, nothing rather than
those makeup artists.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
A shout out to Shaidah, Okay, she's great.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
What did you think when you saw the new signage
in gold go up for the Oval Office?

Speaker 2 (39:41):
You want to know my honest initial thought was who
doesn't know?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Who needs Who doesn't know it's the Oval Office? Because
who needs to sign? What is this about? Why does
the president have so much free time? These are the
questions we need to be asking. Why was he so
intimately involved in the renovating of a bathroom in the residents?
Help me understand, given everything that is happening out here

(40:06):
in this.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Country, how the president has time for this?

Speaker 4 (40:09):
So you spent a ton of time working in the
White House. What did you think when you woke up
and discovered that the East Wing had been totally demolished.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And my
first thought was.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
What they are building is essentially going to be bigger
than the structure of the White House itself. I think
the White House is only about like fifty five thousand
square feet.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
And what Donald Trump?

Speaker 1 (40:36):
This ballroom that they're saying they're building is almost twice
the size of that, So how does that work? But
also you know the PIAC operations, the bunker, if you will,
at the White House, it sits below the East wing.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
When I saw the photos of like the digging, and.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
How I this can't just be about the ballroom?

Speaker 2 (40:57):
So what else are they building? What else are they doing?

Speaker 1 (40:59):
There is a the lack of transparency about what is
actually happening there. Those were all the questions that were
elicited for me. And then what the companies that bought
in or that gave money donations to the ballroom.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Why did they do that? Like what was their reasoning?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
And I just heard Jamie Diamond last week, I think
he did an interview on CNN with Aaron Burnett and
she asked why JP Morgan Chase did not give to
the ballroom.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Effort that you know a lot of other companies did.
Why didn't you?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
And he essentially said, because they deal with a lot
of you know, they have a lot of they had
their hands in a lot of different pots, and that
they have to be conscious of what the next Justice
Department would do or say about their participating in something
like this. And that just made Antenna's go off for me.

(41:49):
So what did the other companies get for doing this?
I think that there are a lot of questions, and frankly,
one of the things Congress could do if Democrats do
get back the House is to aggressively investigate and do
some oversight around there.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
Will you be watching the Amazon documentary about Milania, for
which our first lady has gotten paid forty million dollars?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I will be skipping right on past that on Prime.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Simone Sanderstown's and I don't think there's anything you don't
have an opinion on. And I bet the Democrats wish
you would come back and handle their campaigns for them.
But thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Okay,
So what I found really interesting about that was that

(42:36):
Simone worked in the White House and knows when something
like the President falling asleep doesn't command panic among the
people around him, it's because they're familiar with this behavior
and he's done it before she knows because she saw
it herself with a different president. So if you have been,
thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to

(42:58):
this podcast. We are independent media, so we really appreciate
your support and feel free to leave a comment on
Stamone's point of view. Don't forget, as our first lady
would have us, be Beast and a special thank you
to our b Beast level members. Come on, how can
you not join and be a be Beast level member?

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Come on?

Speaker 4 (43:21):
Herbie Andrew Meller for Via, Orlando Las Conde, Sandra Clark, Bonzo,
val Love, Francisco Bocock, DC, Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford,
Sharon Shipley, and Andrea Hodell. A special thanks to all
of you, and thank you to our production team Devon Rogerino,
Ana von Erson and Jesse Millwood. And we'll be back

(43:41):
tomorrow with Inside Trump's Head