Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cause like always gave me still talking the bad scene looking.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
From wherever you are around the world. Welcome and thank
you for joining us today. We're going to be exploring
two interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Subjects, Explaining Evil and Seeking the Sacred, with a prolific
author by the name of doctor J.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Harold Ellens. He's a professor at Echmenical Theological Seminary. He's
authored to contribute over two hundred and seventy books. You
didn't miss, hear me. That's right, over two hundred and
seventy books. Welcome to the cir called doctor Gerald. J.
Harold Ellens.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
That's lovely to be on the two.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Books I referenced earlier. Is Explaining Evil, you can see
it right here. We also have Seeking the Sacred, his
newest book right here. Well, what motivated you to write
this book? Though, we'll talk about the first one explaining
evil and then most recent Seeking the Sacred, But what
motivates you to rights explaining the evil?
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Well, for a long time I've been concerned about the
fact that there is such a preoccupation with evil. People
may wonder about whether they believe in God, but they
certainly believe in evil, and it disturbs me since there
is no such thing as an evil force onto logically
(01:27):
or in terms of actual being out there. The only
thing out there that there really is is a God,
the God of grace and mercy. And for us to
talk about evil as though it exists concretely and tangibly
gives it a kind of.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Ratification.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
It gives it a kind of sense of reality. And
so when the publisher suggested that I explore that and
added a couple of volumes on exploring and Explaining Evil,
I thought it was a great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Indeed, do you think it's inherent in human nature to
anthropomorphosize evil?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Well, it may be. It may be a result of
the fact that we're all born scared. We come down
the birth canal bumping and splashing, and when we actually
are in the hit this reality of this present world,
we all feel pretty inadequate and pretty anxious. And it's
(02:41):
an unknown world. It's a world of danger and threaten
in which we have no control, no way of gaining
any kind of traction as infants, And so it's possible
that we from the outset start out with a relatively
high experience of anxiety and the possibility or the reality
(03:10):
of pain and discomfort, and we may interpret that as
an unfortunate thing and eventually give it the name of
evil and try to find ways of explaining that. And
so it may be inherent to humans.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do you also think maybe I'm talking of several thousands.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Of years ago, people maybe created God due to these
unknown fears, which they label fear, and they thought, well,
we're gonna have to have a counter against this fear,
will create God, whether it be one God, monotheism, or polytheism.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Well, I think there is inherent in human nature an
intuitive sense of the presence of that which is beyond us,
something more. The best possible explanation that we can get
of our experience of reality always leaves us with a
(04:14):
feeling that there must be something more, and that sort
of beyond us kind of experience certainly has something to
do with the fashioning of God. But the reality is
that it's probably true that humans project and create God
(04:36):
and God creates humans. That it probably is real that
there is an inherent and intuitive sense in human beings
of the presence of God or of the Divine Spirit everywhere.
Because there's so much you can't explain unless you posit
(04:59):
that hypothesis. On the other hand, the exact way in
which we conceive of God and therefore as the counter
good evil probably depends on our psychology.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Interesting, what would you say, So, what is Satan? That
is Satan real or is it just something we label
as evil?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well, it's not real.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
It's very interesting that in the Hebrew Bible, from which
comes the New Testament and Christianity. In the Hebrew Bible
there is no such thing as devil or evil force or.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
The like.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
In the Book of Job there is reference to Satan.
But in the Book of Job, Satan is God's chief
of staff. It says that he meets with the council
that God consults, and that his prime responsibility is supervising
the planet Earth. That's all that the Book of Job says.
(06:07):
That's all that the Hebrew Bible says. And it is
an identification of Satan as a person that is, a
henchman of God, a positive factor. The notion of devils
(06:28):
and demons and fallen angels and angels themselves came into
the New Testament through the influence of Zoroastrianism upon Judaism
in the time of the exile in Babylon. The exile
caused an encounter between Israel and the and the forces
(06:56):
and ideas of Zoroastrianism. And that's where the concept of
God and a counter good or devil and good and evil,
light and darkness as a kind of philosophical description of
the kingdoms that are in a cosmic war in this world,
(07:21):
and that cosmic war has as its battleground the human
history and the human heart. There is no cosmic war.
We don't need a devil to explain the problem of
evil in the world. We're perfectly capable of creating it ourselves,
(07:43):
and we have done that horribly, and it's unnecessary.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
It's unnecessary.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
It's possible that this world could be fraught with peace
and joy and negotiation instead of all this conflict, and
the result of that would be that the concept of
(08:10):
Satan and evil would possibly evaporate.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
That would be utopia, indeed, it would.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I guess our last.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Minute here on explaining evil before we get to your
other book. So would you define evil more as the
absence of good?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's what Augustine said, and I think he was right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm playing in the big leagues now, huh yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Right.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Welcome to Adelante. This is Adalante's Recovery and my name
is Ebatte Coulan and I'm part of the staff.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
At Alante Recovery Center has helped people dual diagnosis for
five years.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
We accept most PPO insurances and provide luxury accommodations and twenty.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Four hour support to speak with an admissions counselor called
one eight eight eight two four to two four four
five zero.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
A lot of time we don't even know what's wrong
with us, and sometimes we need to get away figure
that out. So if you want to go for a
little retreat out in Corona do Mar, which is a confidential.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Location, we're here to help.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
So we're only home, call away.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
We're going to move on now to Seeking the Sacred,
which is your second book. What is this book all about?
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Taking the Sacred is a two volume work which I
have edited. It's about the use of psychedelic drugs and
what are now known as antheogoon in the field of
psychological research. It's all about psychological research and the way
(10:09):
in which some of these medications are tremendously useful in
the treatment of such things as depression and PTSD. Very
important development has taken place in the field of combat
(10:31):
veterans with PTSD. Certain drugs that used to be considered
street drugs and horrible things are now through medical research,
being used to treat PTSD and to treat cancer patients
(10:56):
terminal terminally ill and reduce their anxiety. Psilocybin is a
very important drug in that regard, and LSD used in
control prescribed doses is very helpful. And this book, Seeking
(11:19):
the Sacred with Psychoactive Substances, of which the subtitle is
Chemical Paths to Spirituality and to God, is a two
volume work in which what we've done is taken the
(11:40):
medical experiments, the medical research, and the psychological research that
has developed out of these drugs is medicine and tried
to describe the way in which this not only enhance
(12:00):
is the treatment of various diseases, but also causes people
to have experiences that are mind expanding. Actually, they give
people a tremendously increased sense of psychological and spiritual scope
(12:27):
in life. And this is the emphasis of the title
upon spirituality.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is this similar to I'm not sure if you're familiar
with the neuroscience now that has targeted the inferior temporal lobe.
If they activate that area, people start seeing visions of
God or hearing God. Is that similar to that concept?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It is, it's related to it.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Right now, I am in the process of studying that
side of things, strictly neurological aspects that produce the same
kind of effect. And the incredible thing about it is
that this expands a person's capacity to appreciate the nature
(13:20):
and the quality or the experience the relationship with God.
We don't quite understand all of it yet, but we
know it's there, and that's the important thing that drives
us to do this kind of research.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
This is fantastic work, doctor Ellens. This sounds more like
a more of a sophisticated scientific research than aldu Huxley
did in his book Doors of Perception.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Oh yeah, it's very sophisticated. First of all, the.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Process is much more responsible in terms of the control measures,
the dose levels, the understanding of the research and the
realities behind this, and also in the neurological area, the
stim brain stimulation, brainwave registration.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And so forth.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Today we have the machinery that makes it possible to
do that non invasively, and we can do it without
any kind of trauma or discomfort to the patient. And
so the result is that we can carry out this
(14:49):
brand new kind of research knowing in advance what the controls.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Have to be and what the outcome can be.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
And so it's a marvelous, marvelous world to be working in.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It really does sound like it. Do you think here
we got about three or four minutes left. Do you
think this spot that you discovered, we discovered the neuroscience
and the part of the brain the effects of these
psychedelic products. Do you think this is God's way of
showing us a little secret of how to get more
in touch with Him.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I'm a strong believer in the pervasive presence of the
spirit in all things in creation. I think that the
spirit is everywhere, and the spirit is operating everywhere, and
when we refer to our own spirits, what we're referring
to is the presence of God's spirit in us.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
And I think this is true.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
In the leaves of the tree and the flowers that grow.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
I think God's.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Spirit is expressed itself. And it may very well be
that we could say that it's God's spirit that expresses
itself in the energy that keeps the the electrons in
orbit and a rock. It may well be that the
God's spirit is that pervasive, and if it is, it
means that in these kinds of new research, employing what
(16:26):
are God's products for new insight and revelation to us
is being in touch with the spirit.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
This is great stuff, doctor Allens. I can't wait to
see that new book. If you haven't read the books,
suggest highly that you do. Explaining evil. Right here we
have Seeking the Sacred right here. You must get these
two books, doctor Ellens. I know a lot of people
are going to want to know more about you and
find out how to get some of your other books
as well. Where do they go?
Speaker 5 (16:59):
They can that by going to my website www dot
Jharrold Ellens dot com. My book Seeking the Sacred is
so new that it may not be on there yet,
but you can go to my website. You can hit
(17:22):
the button called books, and that will take you to
my recent publications. And when you hit the button of
a specific book, it will take you right.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
To Amazon and you can buy it.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Or you can go to Amazon directly and punch up
my name as an author, and there's an author page
and it will have all of my books that Amazon
is carrying.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Right there in front of you.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Wonderful. Thank you so much doctor Ellens for joining the
Circle today.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Very very pleasant and dad.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Thank you everyone. I hope you enjoyed the show as
much as I did. Remember wherever their psychology evolved, even
the world of evil, We're there. See you next time.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Also catch our web TV show Circle of Inside on
therapygable dot com.
Cause like always gave me still talking the bad scene looking.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
From wherever you are around the world. Welcome and thank
you for joining us today. We're going to be exploring
two interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Subjects, Explaining Evil and Seeking the Sacred, with a prolific
author by the name of doctor J.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Harold Ellens. He's a professor at Echmenical Theological Seminary. He's
authored to contribute over two hundred and seventy books. You
didn't miss, hear me. That's right, over two hundred and
seventy books. Welcome to the cir called doctor Gerald. J.
Harold Ellens.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
That's lovely to be on the two.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Books I referenced earlier. Is Explaining Evil, you can see
it right here. We also have Seeking the Sacred, his
newest book right here. Well, what motivated you to write
this book? Though, we'll talk about the first one explaining
evil and then most recent Seeking the Sacred, But what
motivates you to rights explaining the evil?
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Well, for a long time I've been concerned about the
fact that there is such a preoccupation with evil. People
may wonder about whether they believe in God, but they
certainly believe in evil, and it disturbs me since there
is no such thing as an evil force onto logically
(01:27):
or in terms of actual being out there. The only
thing out there that there really is is a God,
the God of grace and mercy. And for us to
talk about evil as though it exists concretely and tangibly
gives it a kind of.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Ratification.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
It gives it a kind of sense of reality. And
so when the publisher suggested that I explore that and
added a couple of volumes on exploring and Explaining Evil,
I thought it was a great opportunity.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Indeed, do you think it's inherent in human nature to
anthropomorphosize evil?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Well, it may be. It may be a result of
the fact that we're all born scared. We come down
the birth canal bumping and splashing, and when we actually
are in the hit this reality of this present world,
we all feel pretty inadequate and pretty anxious. And it's
(02:41):
an unknown world. It's a world of danger and threaten
in which we have no control, no way of gaining
any kind of traction as infants, And so it's possible
that we from the outset start out with a relatively
high experience of anxiety and the possibility or the reality
(03:10):
of pain and discomfort, and we may interpret that as
an unfortunate thing and eventually give it the name of
evil and try to find ways of explaining that. And
so it may be inherent to humans.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do you also think maybe I'm talking of several thousands.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Of years ago, people maybe created God due to these
unknown fears, which they label fear, and they thought, well,
we're gonna have to have a counter against this fear,
will create God, whether it be one God, monotheism, or polytheism.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Well, I think there is inherent in human nature an
intuitive sense of the presence of that which is beyond us,
something more. The best possible explanation that we can get
of our experience of reality always leaves us with a
(04:14):
feeling that there must be something more, and that sort
of beyond us kind of experience certainly has something to
do with the fashioning of God. But the reality is
that it's probably true that humans project and create God
(04:36):
and God creates humans. That it probably is real that
there is an inherent and intuitive sense in human beings
of the presence of God or of the Divine Spirit everywhere.
Because there's so much you can't explain unless you posit
(04:59):
that hypothesis. On the other hand, the exact way in
which we conceive of God and therefore as the counter
good evil probably depends on our psychology.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Interesting, what would you say, So, what is Satan? That
is Satan real or is it just something we label
as evil?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well, it's not real.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
It's very interesting that in the Hebrew Bible, from which
comes the New Testament and Christianity. In the Hebrew Bible
there is no such thing as devil or evil force or.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
The like.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
In the Book of Job there is reference to Satan.
But in the Book of Job, Satan is God's chief
of staff. It says that he meets with the council
that God consults, and that his prime responsibility is supervising
the planet Earth. That's all that the Book of Job says.
(06:07):
That's all that the Hebrew Bible says. And it is
an identification of Satan as a person that is, a
henchman of God, a positive factor. The notion of devils
(06:28):
and demons and fallen angels and angels themselves came into
the New Testament through the influence of Zoroastrianism upon Judaism
in the time of the exile in Babylon. The exile
caused an encounter between Israel and the and the forces
(06:56):
and ideas of Zoroastrianism. And that's where the concept of
God and a counter good or devil and good and evil,
light and darkness as a kind of philosophical description of
the kingdoms that are in a cosmic war in this world,
(07:21):
and that cosmic war has as its battleground the human
history and the human heart. There is no cosmic war.
We don't need a devil to explain the problem of
evil in the world. We're perfectly capable of creating it ourselves,
(07:43):
and we have done that horribly, and it's unnecessary.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
It's unnecessary.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
It's possible that this world could be fraught with peace
and joy and negotiation instead of all this conflict, and
the result of that would be that the concept of
(08:10):
Satan and evil would possibly evaporate.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
That would be utopia, indeed, it would.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I guess our last.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Minute here on explaining evil before we get to your
other book. So would you define evil more as the
absence of good?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's what Augustine said, and I think he was right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm playing in the big leagues now, huh yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Right.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Welcome to Adelante. This is Adalante's Recovery and my name
is Ebatte Coulan and I'm part of the staff.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
At Alante Recovery Center has helped people dual diagnosis for
five years.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
We accept most PPO insurances and provide luxury accommodations and twenty.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Four hour support to speak with an admissions counselor called
one eight eight eight two four to two four four
five zero.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
A lot of time we don't even know what's wrong
with us, and sometimes we need to get away figure
that out. So if you want to go for a
little retreat out in Corona do Mar, which is a confidential.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Location, we're here to help.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
So we're only home, call away.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
We're going to move on now to Seeking the Sacred,
which is your second book. What is this book all about?
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Taking the Sacred is a two volume work which I
have edited. It's about the use of psychedelic drugs and
what are now known as antheogoon in the field of
psychological research. It's all about psychological research and the way
(10:09):
in which some of these medications are tremendously useful in
the treatment of such things as depression and PTSD. Very
important development has taken place in the field of combat
(10:31):
veterans with PTSD. Certain drugs that used to be considered
street drugs and horrible things are now through medical research,
being used to treat PTSD and to treat cancer patients
(10:56):
terminal terminally ill and reduce their anxiety. Psilocybin is a
very important drug in that regard, and LSD used in
control prescribed doses is very helpful. And this book, Seeking
(11:19):
the Sacred with Psychoactive Substances, of which the subtitle is
Chemical Paths to Spirituality and to God, is a two
volume work in which what we've done is taken the
(11:40):
medical experiments, the medical research, and the psychological research that
has developed out of these drugs is medicine and tried
to describe the way in which this not only enhance
(12:00):
is the treatment of various diseases, but also causes people
to have experiences that are mind expanding. Actually, they give
people a tremendously increased sense of psychological and spiritual scope
(12:27):
in life. And this is the emphasis of the title
upon spirituality.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is this similar to I'm not sure if you're familiar
with the neuroscience now that has targeted the inferior temporal lobe.
If they activate that area, people start seeing visions of
God or hearing God. Is that similar to that concept?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It is, it's related to it.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Right now, I am in the process of studying that
side of things, strictly neurological aspects that produce the same
kind of effect. And the incredible thing about it is
that this expands a person's capacity to appreciate the nature
(13:20):
and the quality or the experience the relationship with God.
We don't quite understand all of it yet, but we
know it's there, and that's the important thing that drives
us to do this kind of research.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
This is fantastic work, doctor Ellens. This sounds more like
a more of a sophisticated scientific research than aldu Huxley
did in his book Doors of Perception.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Oh yeah, it's very sophisticated. First of all, the.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Process is much more responsible in terms of the control measures,
the dose levels, the understanding of the research and the
realities behind this, and also in the neurological area, the
stim brain stimulation, brainwave registration.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And so forth.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Today we have the machinery that makes it possible to
do that non invasively, and we can do it without
any kind of trauma or discomfort to the patient. And
so the result is that we can carry out this
(14:49):
brand new kind of research knowing in advance what the controls.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Have to be and what the outcome can be.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
And so it's a marvelous, marvelous world to be working in.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It really does sound like it. Do you think here
we got about three or four minutes left. Do you
think this spot that you discovered, we discovered the neuroscience
and the part of the brain the effects of these
psychedelic products. Do you think this is God's way of
showing us a little secret of how to get more
in touch with Him.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I'm a strong believer in the pervasive presence of the
spirit in all things in creation. I think that the
spirit is everywhere, and the spirit is operating everywhere, and
when we refer to our own spirits, what we're referring
to is the presence of God's spirit in us.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
And I think this is true.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
In the leaves of the tree and the flowers that grow.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
I think God's.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Spirit is expressed itself. And it may very well be
that we could say that it's God's spirit that expresses
itself in the energy that keeps the the electrons in
orbit and a rock. It may well be that the
God's spirit is that pervasive, and if it is, it
means that in these kinds of new research, employing what
(16:26):
are God's products for new insight and revelation to us
is being in touch with the spirit.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
This is great stuff, doctor Allens. I can't wait to
see that new book. If you haven't read the books,
suggest highly that you do. Explaining evil. Right here we
have Seeking the Sacred right here. You must get these
two books, doctor Ellens. I know a lot of people
are going to want to know more about you and
find out how to get some of your other books
as well. Where do they go?
Speaker 5 (16:59):
They can that by going to my website www dot
Jharrold Ellens dot com. My book Seeking the Sacred is
so new that it may not be on there yet,
but you can go to my website. You can hit
(17:22):
the button called books, and that will take you to
my recent publications. And when you hit the button of
a specific book, it will take you right.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
To Amazon and you can buy it.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Or you can go to Amazon directly and punch up
my name as an author, and there's an author page
and it will have all of my books that Amazon
is carrying.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Right there in front of you.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Wonderful. Thank you so much doctor Ellens for joining the
Circle today.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Very very pleasant and dad.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Thank you everyone. I hope you enjoyed the show as
much as I did. Remember wherever their psychology evolved, even
the world of evil, We're there. See you next time.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Also catch our web TV show Circle of Inside on
therapygable dot com.
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