September 10, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode Tim and Tom sit down with Sean Thomas, Managing Director of EUEM Business at Edge Consulting, to explore how happiness, health, and IT success are all connected.
They dive into the parallels between personal health and IT health, the evolution of proactive and preventative IT, and how organizations can better operationalize digital employee experience (DEX). From vendor partnerships and process investments to the role of AI in shaping the next generation of IT management, Sean offers valuable insights for leaders navigating today’s complex digital workplace.
Get the latest edition of the Gartner Magic Quadrant here (https://nexthink.com/gartner-magic-quadrant-dex)
Book your tickets for Nexthink Experience (Boston or London) here: https://nexthink.com/experience
Check out EDGE here: https://edge-solutions.com/
They dive into the parallels between personal health and IT health, the evolution of proactive and preventative IT, and how organizations can better operationalize digital employee experience (DEX). From vendor partnerships and process investments to the role of AI in shaping the next generation of IT management, Sean offers valuable insights for leaders navigating today’s complex digital workplace.
Get the latest edition of the Gartner Magic Quadrant here (https://nexthink.com/gartner-magic-quadrant-dex)
Book your tickets for Nexthink Experience (Boston or London) here: https://nexthink.com/experience
Check out EDGE here: https://edge-solutions.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome it, change Makers to the deck show with Tim
Flower and Tom McGraw.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hello, change makers, listen. I was just chatting to Tim
Flower here about regular listeners may have heard me mention
that Tim takes an annual mega motorcycle drive of North America. Tim,
how would you go and give us break it down
for us?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Where do you go? Exactly? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
So in two thousand and nine it was a bucket
list trip to get out to South Dakota from the
East coast, so back and forth across the country. It
ends up being about over two weeks, about five thousand miles,
and it's been every year since, so fifteen. I skipped
a couple of COVID years, but it's been fifteen years
back and forth. A great group of guys we ride
with when we get out there, and it's always a blast.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It sounds I completely love your idea of it above.
In fact, I've never driven a motorbike, but you were
just telling me, Tim that you made a really cool
distinction between driving a car and being on a bike.
To tell the this.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It started with you saying how exhausted you were after
driving nine hours up to whales and it's different on
a motorcycle. Yeah, you're you're tired at the end of
the day. But the difference is someone it's not an
original line somebody. I heard this from somebody, But the
difference between doing it in a car and a motorcycle
is in a car, you're sitting in a seat looking
through a screen, and it's like watching a movie. When
(01:25):
you're on a motorcycle, it's you're in the movie. The
smell changes every ten seconds, the temperature changes every ten seconds,
the road changes, and you've got to react to it.
And the drivers some good, some idiots. The scenery changes
all the time and you're part of it. So yeah,
being in the movie all day is a lot different
than just sitting there watching a movie. Okay, can you
(01:46):
imagine watching a movie for nine hours?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Nice on it?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, the example would be on a plane, right like that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's the ultimate passivity.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know, you're just sat there for nine hours. You
know more Sometimes and what do you do? You watch
free movies and it drives you slightly insane, but there's
not you know, it's there's a relationship.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You're trapped in that tube.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, totally totally got to welcome our guests Sean Thomas,
welcome and Sean, you got to help me. I need
an analogy. I was Tim was saying all this cool stuff.
I was like, is there something I can Is there
a way I can tie this to decks?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It's a different experience. It's an individual experience, right, we
can tie it to experience in it.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and you don't have decks. It's passive. You're on
the plane. And if you have decks, you're on the motorbike.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What do you think show? What do you think? Well? Yeah, no,
And I think also it was interesting when you did
talk about the smells and all of that. That's one
of the things you realize. I mean, I do a
lot of biking and you just are walking. You just
kind of you're more involved in it. You do smell
those things and kind of brings you back to when
you're I guess younger and weren't in a car all
the time. You saw those things and smell them. So yeah,
(02:57):
I get that. With the whole overall experience.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We were riding through. I'll give you a quick story.
We were riding through. It was either Iowa or Nebraska.
It was my first year on the trip and we're
riding through. We stopped for gas and I turned to
my buddy Steve, because Steve, I smell pancakes. Is the
weirdest smell out in the middle of nowhere. We're in
cornfields and cattle country, and why do I smell pancakes?
And he looks over at the sila, so tim AT's
(03:20):
corn syrup they're making over there. It was just the
smell of the corn, and the corn syrup smelled just
like pancakes. But it's that kind of thing you don't
really get when you're in the car.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Beautiful, and I can think of some way showing to
tie this into your introduction and welcome you to the show,
because one of villas stood at me when I was
when I researching today's show. It's just really inspired by
by the signature and you in your email, which is
a beautiful, a beautiful kind of motto or sentiment, which
(03:52):
is success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is
the key to success. And it's something we'll touch upon
it a bit. That seems to sort of pervade a
lot of you thinking and work about decks, right, but
you currently with Edge Solutions and consulting managing director of
EU E M Business. I mean, maybe tell us a
bit about EDGE and yourself to begin with Sure.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sure, So you know, first off, thanks for having me
on the podcast. And you know, I love what you
guys do with this and you're just very happy to
be here. So Edge this is a consulting you know.
EDGE for sure. We're a value added reseller, women owned business.
We've been in business for a little over twenty five
years now. And you know it may sound you know,
(04:36):
sales e or trite, but we really do focus we
say value out of reseller. We really do focus on
the v part of that, you know, and that's bringing
value for both our customers and our vendors. And I
think we can do this because our philosophy as a
company is to really closely partner with best of breed
vendors with a key market space and then really and
(04:57):
we build an expertise and process around solutions. You know,
we we live and die with a vendor and their solution.
A customer wants a different product, we don't. We don't
have a portfolio products that we go to that's in
that same space. You know, We've we've had customers, we've
lost opportunities where customers have liked us but want us
to bring them a different product, maybe a competing product.
(05:21):
So although we may lose this, it builds a strong
vendor partnership, greatly strengthens our relationship with the vendor and
and in reality allows us to helps us get better
pricing and perks for from the vendor for our customers.
So I think it brings value on both sides. And
you know our business model we're not. We're not a
(05:42):
C d W or an s h I where we
can be experts on everything. We can't and we also
can't cultivate this loyalty that we we help helps our customers.
So our overall business at EDGE. You know some of
our key pillars we have mainframe managed services, so we've
(06:04):
we've built a team of top mainframe engineers where IBM
will often outsource to our team. We've built a practice
around the inventors of the converged Infrastructure solution U Tannics,
so we were partnering with them even before people knew
what converged infrastructure was. And then about eight years ago
(06:24):
we formed our partnership and built a practice around the
number one DEX vendor in the market Next Think. You know,
Next Think has the perfect product and it's the perfect
market space for our business because it's it's not a
transactional engagement like maybe a storage array where you sell
and move on. You know, it requires this close partnership
with our customers to help them, you know, get the
(06:46):
value of the products. But that really fits our model.
And you know, edge is sometimes referred to as you know,
a batigue far. I don't know if I'm a fan
of that term because it almost sounds like we kind
of were the small little company that thinkers with these
I T solutions that but we really are a powerhouse
and have an high impact team for the solutions we
(07:06):
do offer. We have proven framework, we deliver results with it,
whether it's made frame or converge infrastructure or in the
desk space.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
That's all great stuff shown many things. And how about
that that that that notion that success, I repeat, is
not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success,
which which I thought of because of you know, Tim's
passion for biking and your passion for biking and real
world pursuits and hobbies and enthusiasms. But I do feel
like it says something about you as an individual professional.
(07:40):
Do you feel that it's reflective of you, of your
approach to two decks you and and how does your
life philosophy guide your work and your leadership.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, I don't know. I guess, you know, maybe it's
a cop out. So if I'm not successful, I can say, well,
at least time I'm happy. But you know, and it's
it's you know, it doesn't mean I would I have son,
I would message to him that, you know, stay in
the basement and play video games, you know, all day
long as long as you're happy. You know, That's not
what I'm saying. But you know, I my background was
(08:10):
product marketing. I don't think I'm naturally a sales person,
And in fact, I think when I first got into sales,
people probably were questioning that for me because by the
nature I'm not I'm more quiet and introvert. But I
do remember, you know, early when I was in my
sales career, you know, maybe maybe I just lost a deal,
(08:33):
but kind of thinking, you know, do I need to
put on an act that was typically common for a
successful sales person, And you know, whether I could do
this was very questionable, But you know, would that make
me more successful at sales and would be happy doing this,
and I I just decided it was probably more out
of inability or laziness to be who I was, you know,
(08:54):
work with the customers that resonated better with me. You know,
maybe I could have sold more if I was more
of a salesperson, but just customers that fit with my personality.
I still don't think I'm a good salesforce. I think
I'm more of a I'm a good account manager, and
that means, you know, supporting the needs of my customers.
(09:14):
And I you know, I think the shows you know,
we're customers I've had for twenty plus years and and
the ones that I'm happy to work with. So I
think that's what success is for me.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And I think that for me, Shawn, that notion of
happiness converting to success resonates a lot. You know, some
of my early success at Nextic was because I was
just happy to be here, happy to be at a
small but really growing company ten years ago, and I
made a similar transition from enterprise it into sales and
(09:51):
marketing role, but it was it was more about being
successful in telling stories, and the happiness behind those stories
comes through so I think it's all that happiness connected
to success. I think makes a ton of sense. The
other thing that you and I have talked a lot
about and that you highlight frequently is the connection between
(10:14):
personal health and IT health. We've socialized it a lot,
especially in the context of proactive IT. Happy and healthy
people are more productive and less of a cost burden
on the healthcare system and likewise for enterprise it t
but unpack your thinking, they are a little bit more
for us sure.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So you know, of course, as I get later in
my life and my career, I'm always attracted to reading
these the articles on such things as you know, how
much money do I need to retire?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
When should I apply for Social Security? These kind of questions,
and often it comes down to health insurance. And you know,
I've I've read multiple times and it's nothing I came
up with. But healthy as well from your thinking about
you as you get older and and trying to be healthy,
and we've you know, you bike, I bike. All these
(11:06):
things that we do that keep us healthy. And you
know it's pretty simple statement. If you keep yourself healthy
and stay on top of it, you know, you can
save yourself a lot of money and medical expenses. You know,
of course we're not going to eliminate getting sick, but
there are things you can do to reduce these ailments.
Find them sooner. They can save you, you know, thousands
(11:27):
hundred thousand dollars in medical bills and prescription drugs. So
you know, I I do my walking or running and
I track these with Strava, and I'm always kind of
looking at that. And one of the stats I saw
was that from the American Heart Association that said that
you know, individuals engage in this regular physical activities and
(11:51):
tract their health. You know, they save on average about
twenty five hundred dollars in healthcare costs. So you know,
not only saving money, but you're feeling better. So you know,
all this about health. This isn't a this is an
immense fitness podcast, but when you start looking at it
in regards to two decks, you know, I was, I
was on one of my morning walks and I started
(12:13):
to think about the parallels with dex Management using next
Think and how companies are looking to use all this
visibility and metrics to help them be preventative and proactive
and supporting their company's health. And you know, of course,
as i'm I think of decks and next thing while
I'm exercising too. But you know, as we're getting sick,
you're not going to eliminate all the issues in your environment.
(12:36):
You know, you can reduce to IT issues and resolve
them before they become very expensive. And you know this
proactiveness and preventative. But in the next thing, platform gives
gives companies the metrics to see these issues and address
them beforehand before they're become major issues. So you know,
carring forward the same logic, better it health translates into
(12:59):
more or wealth for companies. And another stat I saw
where Forrester was saying, I think it was, you know,
companies are investing in these tools are getting an ROI
of about two hundred percent over three years and a
payback period of less than that. So it really does
(13:19):
bring value. And you know, we're willing to invest in
gym memberships and with our own personal money health tracking
device because we know the cost outweigh the benefits all right, sorry,
the benefits outweigh the cost. So you know, for far
less amount per employee per year, these you know, companies
(13:42):
that invest in a dex platform which can diagnose and
automatically resolve in many of these IT issues, you know,
which lead to increased productivity, reduce support costs, lower employee turnover.
It will pays for itself, so IT health does translate
all so into company wealth.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, it's actually an experience I had early on in
my career here at Next Think. And I've told the
story many times, probably get told to hear on the
podcast too. But is it a healthcare facility with our
sales reps early in the sales cycle? And I had
a senior IT leader and a senior finance leader in
the room, and I just started making that parallel to
(14:26):
the finance of healthcare. Happy healthy people, they see their doctor,
they have an apple a day, they exercise, they eat right,
they stay out of the hospital, they're not as sick
as often, and they're less of not only are they
more productive themselves, but the society is more productive as
a whole, and they're all less of a burden on
(14:46):
the healthcare system. And the same thing goes in it.
And we had a really great conversation about those parallels
with those two leaders in the room, and I think
it was really enlightening, not just for me as part
of that conversation, but for them as well, and it
really leads that kind of storytelling I think leads to success.
(15:07):
I'll talk a little bit about proactive It. As many
folks know, I was a customer before coming the next
thing we implemented proactive it. It was over ten years
ago now, and it was through a proactive services team.
We were very deliberate about it. It was specific to
a role, specific for them. They weren't pulled away on
other things. But even just five years ago, proactive it
(15:31):
still felt aspirational for many or a niche idea. But
today it's everywhere. What do you think was the what's
the reason for seeing that shift now and why it's
accelerated so dramatically.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I mean in our early
discussions with customers, you know, it's changed a lot in
the last three to five years. Where you know, initially,
you know, three to five more than three or five
five years ago, we were spending a lot of our
conversations explaining what DEX was and the value of decks. Now,
(16:06):
you know, most people pretty much know what DEX is,
or at least the ones that we're talking with, and
so we spend much time less time educating them and
just talking about the value. And I don't know, I
think that maybe a combination of things it's driving it
from being this niche solution to more mainstream. And you know,
(16:27):
I think initially, you know, long gone are the days
of it just providing you know, this Ethernet port and
an office, employees connecting the desktop PC, whether it's our
client server. You know, today you've got employees connecting VPNs,
Wi Fi devices running different all these different security agents,
SaaS applications, video conferencing, and you know, connecting from anywhere,
(16:52):
remotely anywhere. And employees also expecting no matter what, that
they have to have that same kind of connection if
they're sitting in the office next to the data center
to carry out their jobs. So and you know, these
technologies they didn't just appear in the last three or
five years. But I guess maybe it's a cumulative effect
(17:12):
that have led to this, you know, much more complex it.
So you know that they're all there, all these tools
that they're currently out there to look at the network,
to look at the application. They're really they have been there,
but they're looking at it in isolation, not holistically or
(17:35):
mapping it all together. You know, just because an app
monitoring tool says that, you know, the application working fine,
doesn't translate into that employee being able to use it,
you know, maybe their Wi Fi connections bad or whatever.
So I think companies are really realizing this isolation view
is not strong enough to do what they need to do. So,
(17:57):
you know, they realized they didn't have this comprehends view.
And at the same time that this is going I
think you know, the analysts were also seeing it, which
really has helped move us a law you got Forrester
and Gartner just in the last three to four years
have both come out with multiple reports, you know, magic
quadrants defining the market leaders in the space, which of
(18:20):
course next think has been defined on every one of
these as the top solution. So these I think these
analyst reports also help legitimize the space and make it
become more mainstream of the last few years. And I
think also that they're talking about, you know, really to
get a competitive edge that they're you know, the companies
(18:41):
are looking more at decks. So I don't know, I
think it's a combination of the complexity, people realizing they
need that overall view, and the analysts also legitimizing it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, so you guys are doing a really good job
in that it's still a bit of an evangelism piece
of work, although it is always good to hear. We're
hearing it more and more that it's less so that
now as it is talking about value and operationalizing and
all the kind of the nitty gritty stuff. But even
(19:15):
with all that momentum and the analysts support, there's still
barriers to making a change. Change is difficult, especially when
you've been doing something the same way for thirty years.
So what's your view in terms of the biggest barriers
that get in the way of achieving the aspiration?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, I guess maybe two things come to my first.
Because tax is still new technology. There is not a
lot of industry knowledge out there where you compared to
other solutions, whether it's servers and stores, security, backup. So
these have been out there. While there's a lot of
people in the market space that can help, some companies
(19:58):
aren't exactly sure how to go about implementing and using
a powerful solution like next think you know, and of
course with very little effort, you know, you can plug
in next think and get visibility and start getting some
basic value out of it, but maybe not what the
company is looking for or all that they're looking for.
So to really capitalize on this, companies really need to
(20:20):
invest in the people in the process first. I don't
I don't know if that's anything, you know, great bit
of advice, but I think it's it's key that they
just have to invest in the people in the process
for a strong deck strategy. And unfortunately, sometimes dex is
an afterthought for the it person. That's even you know,
the one person that is looking at decks in the
(20:43):
company and maybe it's their second or third job instead
of their primary job. I have used this analogy before.
It's maybe it's a little too simplistic, but I sometimes
think of Microsoft people, customers ask me, so how many
people that you on this? Well, if you really want
to get value it, that will translate by how many
(21:05):
how much effort you put into it. And I think
of you know, Microsoft Excel. You know most of us
can use it. You use it for creating lists, use
it for some basic adding and subtracting a spreadsheets, but
we know the program is so much more powerful. It
could be so much more value with you know, with
formulas and visual basic and it really depends on how
(21:27):
much effort a person invests in using the application or
getting you know, real strong value. You've probably you know,
seen these people that you have this real multiple tabs,
it's real complex, and they plug in one number and
automatically updates everything because they've they've kind of put in
the work up front. You know, maybe it took some
(21:48):
time up front, but the value is quickly seen and
it's also recurring once they put that work in. So
if companies can take the time up front with next
think the value is large and recurring. I think the
second barrier is really the speed to get things done
with decks is you know, our networks are our solution
(22:10):
engineers at Edge are constantly telling me that when I
talked to them about putting in a use case, you know,
we can build and implement this really quickly and get
it all done, but inevitably the rollout of it with
the customers delay to some kind of company approval process.
And I'm not suggesting that you remove these safeguards, but
(22:31):
by adopting and developing processes around decks, it can really
speed up this time to value so I think those
are kind of at least the two things I can
come up off hand as affecting the quickly coming to
see value.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
It's actually a good segue because we've spent quite a
bit of time recently developing this operating model called dexops.
I'm still looking for the ways to potentially take this
to the next level in terms of maybe even an
ITIL type of framework, but it addresses these operational questions
(23:12):
the people process, technology value communication. But when we look
specifically sewn at the technology piece, what should leaders be
thinking about when it comes to technology selection. You as
a vendor have obviously done your own selection process and
who you want to affiliate yourself with, But what is
(23:33):
that for a customer or a prospective customer looking to
get into decks? Is it all about features and functions
that give you the right outcomes? Or conversely, do those
features and functions not matter because it's a bigger picture.
What are your thoughts, just kind of high level about
technology selection?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think you've mentioned you know, I think
you realize that, of course, I'm biased towards the Next
Thing platform, and you know, I think Next Thing is
one of the very few companies that design their solution
from day one to be a DEXs management tool. It's
not like next thing. Build A had a network monitoring
(24:14):
tool or an application monitoring tool, and before you know,
DEX was mainstream, and then once that became more popular,
they just added a few functionalities and marketing words to
jump into the space. Their product was always defined as
a deck solution and looking at from the end user's
point of view. So the foundation everything it does is
(24:38):
looking at it from the employees side, whether it's you know,
getting the the metrics of their capability to use the
IT service provider, whether it's getting their feedback, whether it's
automating things prevented. It's all looking at it from the
employee's point of view, which is I think, you know,
very important to to the desk stop side. And I think,
(25:04):
you know, on the tech technology that's I think that's
kind of my thought on that. If you're you know,
if you're also looking at how to do the processes
or the team around it. You know, as far as
personnel for desktop, I don't I know there was any
fast hard rules. I you know, if I were starting
(25:26):
my DEX team or drafting my fantasy dex team. I
think my first pick would really be somebody that's well
routed and a strong I generalist from end to end,
you know, infrastructure. I think that's kind of what I would, uh,
I would pick and it you know, it doesn't mean
I don't think a network or an applications to me
would would not be good as well. But I think
(25:49):
it has to have that somebody that understands that end
to end point of view that to really, you know,
help kind of get this implement and understands all the
different pieces involved.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
So lastly, Sean, obviously proactive it plays a big part
in the aspiration of everything we're talking about. But what
about the next stage. You know, some people are going
to get preventative. It interested in hearing what this looks
like to you what the what the evolution of proactive
it looks like in the next couple of years, and
(26:27):
the role AI plays in that development.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, you know, I can't count, you know how many
times you know, I've had a new next Thing customers
say something like, you know, we love how next Thing
provides us, you know, all this user data and how
it shows us you know, alerts and issues and that's great,
But you know, how can I use next Thing to
tell us exactly why we have these issues and and
(26:56):
tell us exactly what we need to do to fix it.
And in our answer in the past has always been
Next Thing still requires some IT skills with some you know,
deductive reasoning to take you know, take this next Thing
data and be proactive and and even preventative and dressing
these issues. But you know, if you've been following the
(27:16):
space and next Think, our responses have been involving on this.
As the next Thing product has evolved and as it
adds more AI capabilities into it, we've started to be
able to answer this with a little bit I think
maybe more customer friendly. You know, first you got you know,
(27:36):
experienced central dashboard. It shows you know what items are
affecting the DEX score negatively now and provides guidance on
how to address that, which is what our customers are
looking for to be more proactive and preventative. You know,
next Think assists Model, which is the l M tool
(27:58):
built right into the Next Thing toy. Now you can
have it just type in natural language using specific questions
again to be guided on where to go. And you know,
we're always talking with the Next Thing product managers and
following to see what's next, And it does seem like
there's a lot more powerful new AA capabilities that are
(28:19):
going to be rolled out in the next month six months,
and I think more of this is pushing towards helping
provide end users not just with the data, but what
to do with that data, and helping them be more
proactive and preventative with the powerful next thing data. So, yeah,
(28:41):
that's the stuff that we're looking and it's pretty excited
about seeing that and showing that to our customers.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That's awesome, Sean, and I've always been funded personally of
that analogy between proactive approach to health or prevention, you know,
as being better than the cure, and the proactive approach
to the digital workplace. Really enjoyed your unpacking that thoroughly
and properly. If anybody wants to reach out to you.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To EDGE, where should they go? Yeah, they can go
to our EDGE website, Edge Solutionsconsulting dot com. Yeah, that's
I guess, so it's a good place to start.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yes, sorry links in the show notes, my friend, So
thank you so much for Conan. I did hear this
was your This was your podcast debut, so I think
you did extremely well. And Joe, thanks for making us
your your your first show.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Thank you very much. Appreciate the time.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
A mane To make sure that you never miss an episode.
Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your
favorite podcast player, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts,
make sure to leave a rating of the show. Just
have the number of stars you think the podcast deserves.
If you'd love to learn more about how next Thing
can help me improve your digital employe experience, head over
(30:01):
to Nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time, m HM.
Welcome it, change Makers to the deck show with Tim
Flower and Tom McGraw.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hello, change makers, listen. I was just chatting to Tim
Flower here about regular listeners may have heard me mention
that Tim takes an annual mega motorcycle drive of North America. Tim,
how would you go and give us break it down
for us?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Where do you go? Exactly? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
So in two thousand and nine it was a bucket
list trip to get out to South Dakota from the
East coast, so back and forth across the country. It
ends up being about over two weeks, about five thousand miles,
and it's been every year since, so fifteen. I skipped
a couple of COVID years, but it's been fifteen years
back and forth. A great group of guys we ride
with when we get out there, and it's always a blast.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It sounds I completely love your idea of it above.
In fact, I've never driven a motorbike, but you were
just telling me, Tim that you made a really cool
distinction between driving a car and being on a bike.
To tell the this.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It started with you saying how exhausted you were after
driving nine hours up to whales and it's different on
a motorcycle. Yeah, you're you're tired at the end of
the day. But the difference is someone it's not an
original line somebody. I heard this from somebody, But the
difference between doing it in a car and a motorcycle
is in a car, you're sitting in a seat looking
through a screen, and it's like watching a movie. When
(01:25):
you're on a motorcycle, it's you're in the movie. The
smell changes every ten seconds, the temperature changes every ten seconds,
the road changes, and you've got to react to it.
And the drivers some good, some idiots. The scenery changes
all the time and you're part of it. So yeah,
being in the movie all day is a lot different
than just sitting there watching a movie. Okay, can you
(01:46):
imagine watching a movie for nine hours?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Nice on it?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, the example would be on a plane, right like that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's the ultimate passivity.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know, you're just sat there for nine hours. You
know more Sometimes and what do you do? You watch
free movies and it drives you slightly insane, but there's
not you know, it's there's a relationship.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You're trapped in that tube.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, totally totally got to welcome our guests Sean Thomas,
welcome and Sean, you got to help me. I need
an analogy. I was Tim was saying all this cool stuff.
I was like, is there something I can Is there
a way I can tie this to decks?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It's a different experience. It's an individual experience, right, we
can tie it to experience in it.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and you don't have decks. It's passive. You're on
the plane. And if you have decks, you're on the motorbike.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
What do you think show? What do you think? Well? Yeah, no,
And I think also it was interesting when you did
talk about the smells and all of that. That's one
of the things you realize. I mean, I do a
lot of biking and you just are walking. You just
kind of you're more involved in it. You do smell
those things and kind of brings you back to when
you're I guess younger and weren't in a car all
the time. You saw those things and smell them. So yeah,
(02:57):
I get that. With the whole overall experience.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We were riding through. I'll give you a quick story.
We were riding through. It was either Iowa or Nebraska.
It was my first year on the trip and we're
riding through. We stopped for gas and I turned to
my buddy Steve, because Steve, I smell pancakes. Is the
weirdest smell out in the middle of nowhere. We're in
cornfields and cattle country, and why do I smell pancakes?
And he looks over at the sila, so tim AT's
(03:20):
corn syrup they're making over there. It was just the
smell of the corn, and the corn syrup smelled just
like pancakes. But it's that kind of thing you don't
really get when you're in the car.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Beautiful, and I can think of some way showing to
tie this into your introduction and welcome you to the show,
because one of villas stood at me when I was
when I researching today's show. It's just really inspired by
by the signature and you in your email, which is
a beautiful, a beautiful kind of motto or sentiment, which
(03:52):
is success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is
the key to success. And it's something we'll touch upon
it a bit. That seems to sort of pervade a
lot of you thinking and work about decks, right, but
you currently with Edge Solutions and consulting managing director of
EU E M Business. I mean, maybe tell us a
bit about EDGE and yourself to begin with Sure.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sure, So you know, first off, thanks for having me
on the podcast. And you know, I love what you
guys do with this and you're just very happy to
be here. So Edge this is a consulting you know.
EDGE for sure. We're a value added reseller, women owned business.
We've been in business for a little over twenty five
years now. And you know it may sound you know,
(04:36):
sales e or trite, but we really do focus we
say value out of reseller. We really do focus on
the v part of that, you know, and that's bringing
value for both our customers and our vendors. And I
think we can do this because our philosophy as a
company is to really closely partner with best of breed
vendors with a key market space and then really and
(04:57):
we build an expertise and process around solutions. You know,
we we live and die with a vendor and their solution.
A customer wants a different product, we don't. We don't
have a portfolio products that we go to that's in
that same space. You know, We've we've had customers, we've
lost opportunities where customers have liked us but want us
to bring them a different product, maybe a competing product.
(05:21):
So although we may lose this, it builds a strong
vendor partnership, greatly strengthens our relationship with the vendor and
and in reality allows us to helps us get better
pricing and perks for from the vendor for our customers.
So I think it brings value on both sides. And
you know our business model we're not. We're not a
(05:42):
C d W or an s h I where we
can be experts on everything. We can't and we also
can't cultivate this loyalty that we we help helps our customers.
So our overall business at EDGE. You know some of
our key pillars we have mainframe managed services, so we've
(06:04):
we've built a team of top mainframe engineers where IBM
will often outsource to our team. We've built a practice
around the inventors of the converged Infrastructure solution U Tannics,
so we were partnering with them even before people knew
what converged infrastructure was. And then about eight years ago
(06:24):
we formed our partnership and built a practice around the
number one DEX vendor in the market Next Think. You know,
Next Think has the perfect product and it's the perfect
market space for our business because it's it's not a
transactional engagement like maybe a storage array where you sell
and move on. You know, it requires this close partnership
with our customers to help them, you know, get the
(06:46):
value of the products. But that really fits our model.
And you know, edge is sometimes referred to as you know,
a batigue far. I don't know if I'm a fan
of that term because it almost sounds like we kind
of were the small little company that thinkers with these
I T solutions that but we really are a powerhouse
and have an high impact team for the solutions we
(07:06):
do offer. We have proven framework, we deliver results with it,
whether it's made frame or converge infrastructure or in the
desk space.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
That's all great stuff shown many things. And how about
that that that that notion that success, I repeat, is
not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success,
which which I thought of because of you know, Tim's
passion for biking and your passion for biking and real
world pursuits and hobbies and enthusiasms. But I do feel
like it says something about you as an individual professional.
(07:40):
Do you feel that it's reflective of you, of your
approach to two decks you and and how does your
life philosophy guide your work and your leadership.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, I don't know. I guess, you know, maybe it's
a cop out. So if I'm not successful, I can say, well,
at least time I'm happy. But you know, and it's
it's you know, it doesn't mean I would I have son,
I would message to him that, you know, stay in
the basement and play video games, you know, all day
long as long as you're happy. You know, That's not
what I'm saying. But you know, I my background was
(08:10):
product marketing. I don't think I'm naturally a sales person,
And in fact, I think when I first got into sales,
people probably were questioning that for me because by the
nature I'm not I'm more quiet and introvert. But I
do remember, you know, early when I was in my
sales career, you know, maybe maybe I just lost a deal,
(08:33):
but kind of thinking, you know, do I need to
put on an act that was typically common for a
successful sales person, And you know, whether I could do
this was very questionable, But you know, would that make
me more successful at sales and would be happy doing this,
and I I just decided it was probably more out
of inability or laziness to be who I was, you know,
(08:54):
work with the customers that resonated better with me. You know,
maybe I could have sold more if I was more
of a salesperson, but just customers that fit with my personality.
I still don't think I'm a good salesforce. I think
I'm more of a I'm a good account manager, and
that means, you know, supporting the needs of my customers.
(09:14):
And I you know, I think the shows you know,
we're customers I've had for twenty plus years and and
the ones that I'm happy to work with. So I
think that's what success is for me.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And I think that for me, Shawn, that notion of
happiness converting to success resonates a lot. You know, some
of my early success at Nextic was because I was
just happy to be here, happy to be at a
small but really growing company ten years ago, and I
made a similar transition from enterprise it into sales and
(09:51):
marketing role, but it was it was more about being
successful in telling stories, and the happiness behind those stories
comes through so I think it's all that happiness connected
to success. I think makes a ton of sense. The
other thing that you and I have talked a lot
about and that you highlight frequently is the connection between
(10:14):
personal health and IT health. We've socialized it a lot,
especially in the context of proactive IT. Happy and healthy
people are more productive and less of a cost burden
on the healthcare system and likewise for enterprise it t
but unpack your thinking, they are a little bit more
for us sure.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So you know, of course, as I get later in
my life and my career, I'm always attracted to reading
these the articles on such things as you know, how
much money do I need to retire?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
When should I apply for Social Security? These kind of questions,
and often it comes down to health insurance. And you know,
I've I've read multiple times and it's nothing I came
up with. But healthy as well from your thinking about
you as you get older and and trying to be healthy,
and we've you know, you bike, I bike. All these
(11:06):
things that we do that keep us healthy. And you
know it's pretty simple statement. If you keep yourself healthy
and stay on top of it, you know, you can
save yourself a lot of money and medical expenses. You know,
of course we're not going to eliminate getting sick, but
there are things you can do to reduce these ailments.
Find them sooner. They can save you, you know, thousands
(11:27):
hundred thousand dollars in medical bills and prescription drugs. So
you know, I I do my walking or running and
I track these with Strava, and I'm always kind of
looking at that. And one of the stats I saw
was that from the American Heart Association that said that
you know, individuals engage in this regular physical activities and
(11:51):
tract their health. You know, they save on average about
twenty five hundred dollars in healthcare costs. So you know,
not only saving money, but you're feeling better. So you know,
all this about health. This isn't a this is an
immense fitness podcast, but when you start looking at it
in regards to two decks, you know, I was, I
was on one of my morning walks and I started
(12:13):
to think about the parallels with dex Management using next
Think and how companies are looking to use all this
visibility and metrics to help them be preventative and proactive
and supporting their company's health. And you know, of course,
as i'm I think of decks and next thing while
I'm exercising too. But you know, as we're getting sick,
you're not going to eliminate all the issues in your environment.
(12:36):
You know, you can reduce to IT issues and resolve
them before they become very expensive. And you know this
proactiveness and preventative. But in the next thing, platform gives
gives companies the metrics to see these issues and address
them beforehand before they're become major issues. So you know,
carring forward the same logic, better it health translates into
(12:59):
more or wealth for companies. And another stat I saw
where Forrester was saying, I think it was, you know,
companies are investing in these tools are getting an ROI
of about two hundred percent over three years and a
payback period of less than that. So it really does
(13:19):
bring value. And you know, we're willing to invest in
gym memberships and with our own personal money health tracking
device because we know the cost outweigh the benefits all right, sorry,
the benefits outweigh the cost. So you know, for far
less amount per employee per year, these you know, companies
(13:42):
that invest in a dex platform which can diagnose and
automatically resolve in many of these IT issues, you know,
which lead to increased productivity, reduce support costs, lower employee turnover.
It will pays for itself, so IT health does translate
all so into company wealth.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, it's actually an experience I had early on in
my career here at Next Think. And I've told the
story many times, probably get told to hear on the
podcast too. But is it a healthcare facility with our
sales reps early in the sales cycle? And I had
a senior IT leader and a senior finance leader in
the room, and I just started making that parallel to
(14:26):
the finance of healthcare. Happy healthy people, they see their doctor,
they have an apple a day, they exercise, they eat right,
they stay out of the hospital, they're not as sick
as often, and they're less of not only are they
more productive themselves, but the society is more productive as
a whole, and they're all less of a burden on
(14:46):
the healthcare system. And the same thing goes in it.
And we had a really great conversation about those parallels
with those two leaders in the room, and I think
it was really enlightening, not just for me as part
of that conversation, but for them as well, and it
really leads that kind of storytelling I think leads to success.
(15:07):
I'll talk a little bit about proactive It. As many
folks know, I was a customer before coming the next
thing we implemented proactive it. It was over ten years
ago now, and it was through a proactive services team.
We were very deliberate about it. It was specific to
a role, specific for them. They weren't pulled away on
other things. But even just five years ago, proactive it
(15:31):
still felt aspirational for many or a niche idea. But
today it's everywhere. What do you think was the what's
the reason for seeing that shift now and why it's
accelerated so dramatically.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I mean in our early
discussions with customers, you know, it's changed a lot in
the last three to five years. Where you know, initially,
you know, three to five more than three or five
five years ago, we were spending a lot of our
conversations explaining what DEX was and the value of decks. Now,
(16:06):
you know, most people pretty much know what DEX is,
or at least the ones that we're talking with, and
so we spend much time less time educating them and
just talking about the value. And I don't know, I
think that maybe a combination of things it's driving it
from being this niche solution to more mainstream. And you know,
(16:27):
I think initially, you know, long gone are the days
of it just providing you know, this Ethernet port and
an office, employees connecting the desktop PC, whether it's our
client server. You know, today you've got employees connecting VPNs,
Wi Fi devices running different all these different security agents,
SaaS applications, video conferencing, and you know, connecting from anywhere,
(16:52):
remotely anywhere. And employees also expecting no matter what, that
they have to have that same kind of connection if
they're sitting in the office next to the data center
to carry out their jobs. So and you know, these
technologies they didn't just appear in the last three or
five years. But I guess maybe it's a cumulative effect
(17:12):
that have led to this, you know, much more complex it.
So you know that they're all there, all these tools
that they're currently out there to look at the network,
to look at the application. They're really they have been there,
but they're looking at it in isolation, not holistically or
(17:35):
mapping it all together. You know, just because an app
monitoring tool says that, you know, the application working fine,
doesn't translate into that employee being able to use it,
you know, maybe their Wi Fi connections bad or whatever.
So I think companies are really realizing this isolation view
is not strong enough to do what they need to do. So,
(17:57):
you know, they realized they didn't have this comprehends view.
And at the same time that this is going I
think you know, the analysts were also seeing it, which
really has helped move us a law you got Forrester
and Gartner just in the last three to four years
have both come out with multiple reports, you know, magic
quadrants defining the market leaders in the space, which of
(18:20):
course next think has been defined on every one of
these as the top solution. So these I think these
analyst reports also help legitimize the space and make it
become more mainstream of the last few years. And I
think also that they're talking about, you know, really to
get a competitive edge that they're you know, the companies
(18:41):
are looking more at decks. So I don't know, I
think it's a combination of the complexity, people realizing they
need that overall view, and the analysts also legitimizing it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, so you guys are doing a really good job
in that it's still a bit of an evangelism piece
of work, although it is always good to hear. We're
hearing it more and more that it's less so that
now as it is talking about value and operationalizing and
all the kind of the nitty gritty stuff. But even
(19:15):
with all that momentum and the analysts support, there's still
barriers to making a change. Change is difficult, especially when
you've been doing something the same way for thirty years.
So what's your view in terms of the biggest barriers
that get in the way of achieving the aspiration?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, I guess maybe two things come to my first.
Because tax is still new technology. There is not a
lot of industry knowledge out there where you compared to
other solutions, whether it's servers and stores, security, backup. So
these have been out there. While there's a lot of
people in the market space that can help, some companies
(19:58):
aren't exactly sure how to go about implementing and using
a powerful solution like next think you know, and of
course with very little effort, you know, you can plug
in next think and get visibility and start getting some
basic value out of it, but maybe not what the
company is looking for or all that they're looking for.
So to really capitalize on this, companies really need to
(20:20):
invest in the people in the process first. I don't
I don't know if that's anything, you know, great bit
of advice, but I think it's it's key that they
just have to invest in the people in the process
for a strong deck strategy. And unfortunately, sometimes dex is
an afterthought for the it person. That's even you know,
the one person that is looking at decks in the
(20:43):
company and maybe it's their second or third job instead
of their primary job. I have used this analogy before.
It's maybe it's a little too simplistic, but I sometimes
think of Microsoft people, customers ask me, so how many
people that you on this? Well, if you really want
to get value it, that will translate by how many
(21:05):
how much effort you put into it. And I think
of you know, Microsoft Excel. You know most of us
can use it. You use it for creating lists, use
it for some basic adding and subtracting a spreadsheets, but
we know the program is so much more powerful. It
could be so much more value with you know, with
formulas and visual basic and it really depends on how
(21:27):
much effort a person invests in using the application or
getting you know, real strong value. You've probably you know,
seen these people that you have this real multiple tabs,
it's real complex, and they plug in one number and
automatically updates everything because they've they've kind of put in
the work up front. You know, maybe it took some
(21:48):
time up front, but the value is quickly seen and
it's also recurring once they put that work in. So
if companies can take the time up front with next
think the value is large and recurring. I think the
second barrier is really the speed to get things done
with decks is you know, our networks are our solution
(22:10):
engineers at Edge are constantly telling me that when I
talked to them about putting in a use case, you know,
we can build and implement this really quickly and get
it all done, but inevitably the rollout of it with
the customers delay to some kind of company approval process.
And I'm not suggesting that you remove these safeguards, but
(22:31):
by adopting and developing processes around decks, it can really
speed up this time to value so I think those
are kind of at least the two things I can
come up off hand as affecting the quickly coming to
see value.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
It's actually a good segue because we've spent quite a
bit of time recently developing this operating model called dexops.
I'm still looking for the ways to potentially take this
to the next level in terms of maybe even an
ITIL type of framework, but it addresses these operational questions
(23:12):
the people process, technology value communication. But when we look
specifically sewn at the technology piece, what should leaders be
thinking about when it comes to technology selection. You as
a vendor have obviously done your own selection process and
who you want to affiliate yourself with, But what is
(23:33):
that for a customer or a prospective customer looking to
get into decks? Is it all about features and functions
that give you the right outcomes? Or conversely, do those
features and functions not matter because it's a bigger picture.
What are your thoughts, just kind of high level about
technology selection?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think you've mentioned you know, I think
you realize that, of course, I'm biased towards the Next
Thing platform, and you know, I think Next Thing is
one of the very few companies that design their solution
from day one to be a DEXs management tool. It's
not like next thing. Build A had a network monitoring
(24:14):
tool or an application monitoring tool, and before you know,
DEX was mainstream, and then once that became more popular,
they just added a few functionalities and marketing words to
jump into the space. Their product was always defined as
a deck solution and looking at from the end user's
point of view. So the foundation everything it does is
(24:38):
looking at it from the employees side, whether it's you know,
getting the the metrics of their capability to use the
IT service provider, whether it's getting their feedback, whether it's
automating things prevented. It's all looking at it from the
employee's point of view, which is I think, you know,
very important to to the desk stop side. And I think,
(25:04):
you know, on the tech technology that's I think that's
kind of my thought on that. If you're you know,
if you're also looking at how to do the processes
or the team around it. You know, as far as
personnel for desktop, I don't I know there was any
fast hard rules. I you know, if I were starting
(25:26):
my DEX team or drafting my fantasy dex team. I
think my first pick would really be somebody that's well
routed and a strong I generalist from end to end,
you know, infrastructure. I think that's kind of what I would, uh,
I would pick and it you know, it doesn't mean
I don't think a network or an applications to me
would would not be good as well. But I think
(25:49):
it has to have that somebody that understands that end
to end point of view that to really, you know,
help kind of get this implement and understands all the
different pieces involved.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
So lastly, Sean, obviously proactive it plays a big part
in the aspiration of everything we're talking about. But what
about the next stage. You know, some people are going
to get preventative. It interested in hearing what this looks
like to you what the what the evolution of proactive
it looks like in the next couple of years, and
(26:27):
the role AI plays in that development.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, you know, I can't count, you know how many
times you know, I've had a new next Thing customers
say something like, you know, we love how next Thing
provides us, you know, all this user data and how
it shows us you know, alerts and issues and that's great,
But you know, how can I use next Thing to
tell us exactly why we have these issues and and
(26:56):
tell us exactly what we need to do to fix it.
And in our answer in the past has always been
Next Thing still requires some IT skills with some you know,
deductive reasoning to take you know, take this next Thing
data and be proactive and and even preventative and dressing
these issues. But you know, if you've been following the
(27:16):
space and next Think, our responses have been involving on this.
As the next Thing product has evolved and as it
adds more AI capabilities into it, we've started to be
able to answer this with a little bit I think
maybe more customer friendly. You know, first you got you know,
(27:36):
experienced central dashboard. It shows you know what items are
affecting the DEX score negatively now and provides guidance on
how to address that, which is what our customers are
looking for to be more proactive and preventative. You know,
next Think assists Model, which is the l M tool
(27:58):
built right into the Next Thing toy. Now you can
have it just type in natural language using specific questions
again to be guided on where to go. And you know,
we're always talking with the Next Thing product managers and
following to see what's next, And it does seem like
there's a lot more powerful new AA capabilities that are
(28:19):
going to be rolled out in the next month six months,
and I think more of this is pushing towards helping
provide end users not just with the data, but what
to do with that data, and helping them be more
proactive and preventative with the powerful next thing data. So, yeah,
(28:41):
that's the stuff that we're looking and it's pretty excited
about seeing that and showing that to our customers.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That's awesome, Sean, and I've always been funded personally of
that analogy between proactive approach to health or prevention, you know,
as being better than the cure, and the proactive approach
to the digital workplace. Really enjoyed your unpacking that thoroughly
and properly. If anybody wants to reach out to you.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To EDGE, where should they go? Yeah, they can go
to our EDGE website, Edge Solutionsconsulting dot com. Yeah, that's
I guess, so it's a good place to start.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yes, sorry links in the show notes, my friend, So
thank you so much for Conan. I did hear this
was your This was your podcast debut, so I think
you did extremely well. And Joe, thanks for making us
your your your first show.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Thank you very much. Appreciate the time.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
A mane To make sure that you never miss an episode.
Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your
favorite podcast player, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts,
make sure to leave a rating of the show. Just
have the number of stars you think the podcast deserves.
If you'd love to learn more about how next Thing
can help me improve your digital employe experience, head over
(30:01):
to Nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time, m HM.
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