July 2, 2023 • 54 mins
Welcome to The Family Balancing Act! Where restoring the heart and ART of motherhood starts with one conversation at a time. I'm Maureen Huntley, your host, board-certified Integrative holistic and functional medicine health coach, Emotional Freedom Technique practitioner, mom, grandmother, wife, and CEO of my family's home operations.
I absolutely loved my interview with, Tom, Maggie, and Mary (Maggie), as they recount the life of Peg. Listen in, you too will be pulled into a remarkable story, of love, choices, consequences, hope, and forgiveness.
Peg O’Hagan grew up in Ireland before immigrating to America. She was married to
Mick for over fifty years. They had four beautiful children together. After her husband’s passing, she felt comfortable enough to share her story with others. On this episode of The Family Balancing Act we walk Peg’s path, as her remarkable story of her resilient life is revealed to her family and how her first born was not a “secret” she ever wanted to hide. Peg was interviewed for this memoir by her son-in-law, Dr. Tom Gorman. As Peg’s story was retold and recorded, Dr. Gorman transcribed the notes and authored the memoir. Mary, Peg’s daughter who was given up for adoption, was also interviewed and her story was captured in the memoir.
Dr. Tom Gorman, superintendent of schools in a northeast New Jersey school district, has worked in public education for over 25 years. He is married to Maggie, who is a daughter of Peg, and is also in education. They have three children. Mary (Maggie) Boler, now retired from education and has been married to her husband, Tom, for over 40 years. Together they have two children.
Maureen Huntley, MS
https://maureenhuntley.com/ https://www.facebook.com/maureen.huntley?mibextid=LQQJ4d https://www.facebook.com/TheFamilyBalancingAct?mibextid=LQQJ4d https://www.instagram.com/mohuntley/ www.ctrnetwork.com/thefamilybalancingact
VIA Character Strengths *FREE assessment:
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Dr. Tom Gorman, Maggie Gorman, and Mary (Maggie) Boler
https://icalledhermary.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/684221802760341
I absolutely loved my interview with, Tom, Maggie, and Mary (Maggie), as they recount the life of Peg. Listen in, you too will be pulled into a remarkable story, of love, choices, consequences, hope, and forgiveness.
Peg O’Hagan grew up in Ireland before immigrating to America. She was married to
Mick for over fifty years. They had four beautiful children together. After her husband’s passing, she felt comfortable enough to share her story with others. On this episode of The Family Balancing Act we walk Peg’s path, as her remarkable story of her resilient life is revealed to her family and how her first born was not a “secret” she ever wanted to hide. Peg was interviewed for this memoir by her son-in-law, Dr. Tom Gorman. As Peg’s story was retold and recorded, Dr. Gorman transcribed the notes and authored the memoir. Mary, Peg’s daughter who was given up for adoption, was also interviewed and her story was captured in the memoir.
Dr. Tom Gorman, superintendent of schools in a northeast New Jersey school district, has worked in public education for over 25 years. He is married to Maggie, who is a daughter of Peg, and is also in education. They have three children. Mary (Maggie) Boler, now retired from education and has been married to her husband, Tom, for over 40 years. Together they have two children.
Maureen Huntley, MS
https://maureenhuntley.com/ https://www.facebook.com/maureen.huntley?mibextid=LQQJ4d https://www.facebook.com/TheFamilyBalancingAct?mibextid=LQQJ4d https://www.instagram.com/mohuntley/ www.ctrnetwork.com/thefamilybalancingact
VIA Character Strengths *FREE assessment:
http://maureenhuntley.pro.viasurvey.org
http://vitalhealthforlife.pro.viasurvey.org
Dr. Tom Gorman, Maggie Gorman, and Mary (Maggie) Boler
https://icalledhermary.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/684221802760341
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to where the screen door slamsand the coffee mug hits the table.
You're listening to The Family Balancing Actwith me Loureen Huntley, Mom, grandmother
and board certified Holistic and Functional Medicinehealth coach. Each episode will explore the
realities of your day to day familylife in this modern era of NonStop texts,
(00:27):
means and technology. After all,how do we keep ourselves saying,
hand our family healthy? I'll haveamazing guests and thought provoking discussions, and
we'll take a holistic look at familyhealth emotional, physical, mental, and
spiritual. Whether it's a micro perspectiveof family involving healthy snacks, teenagers with
(00:50):
an attitude, stressed out, husband'spartners, adult children, potty training,
eldercare, grandchildren, college breath,or a macro perspective of world events including
blue earthquakes, the brainwashing, media, finances, and oh so much more.
We'll find a way together. Sotake a deep, rapt exhale and
(01:11):
know that you're not alone. Bringon a Family Balancing Act. Welcome to
(01:47):
the Family Balancing Act, where restoringthe heart and art of motherhood starts with
one conversation at a time. I'mMaureen Huntley, your host board certified integrative
Holy Sick and Functional Medicine, healthcoach, emotional freedom technique, practitioner,
mom, grandmother, wife, andCEO of my family's home operations. So
(02:10):
come on in, grab a chair, grab a tea, coffee, green
juice, and let's talk. Somany threads make up all of our choices,
stories, our experiences, joys,loves and struggles, creating the most
(02:31):
magnificent tapestry filled with colors of emotionand textures of happiness and pain. These
sleek and tattered threads that are bothold and new are mine and yours.
We all have this masterpiece of atapestry of experiences showing a life lived.
(02:58):
The fabric of our human entity wisdom, courage, justice and temperance virtues.
Yet, in this human world,we judge ourselves and yes, others,
for the choices of what is right, wrong, good or bad. Really,
it's it's not ours to judge,including our own stuff. It's God's.
(03:23):
So reflect pray for forgiveness and apath forward. In my opinion,
the hardest critic to overcome as ourown, the stuff that we play over
and over in our heads. Ishould have would have could for the story
that happened twenty thirty, forty plusyears ago. Have you ever noticed that
(03:46):
the very thing you've been ruminating aboutshows up from family, friends, neighbors,
and even co workers when they decideto recount a story that involves a
little bit of your story? Arethe shame of your secret that very few
people know about? Maybe nobody knowsabout, but someone recounts the story of
(04:08):
another person that made a similar choiceyou did, and there ensues a conversation
about that being such a poor decision, and you feel it. Women and
their babies. So many stories,so many women all over the world have
(04:30):
given up their babies choices that theydidn't want to make. They gave them
up for adoption, or maybe theyhad an abortion but they didn't want to
do it. And no truer thanthis is in Ireland. In episode one
oh four of The Family Balancing Act, I had a big discussion with author
and birth mother Advocate Ethna Ring regardingthe veil that has finally been lifted through
(04:55):
the work of two SLI Child andFamily Agency. There's also the Mother and
Baby Homes Commission investigation in Ireland thatwas published in January twenty twenty one.
So the movement to clear to havethe names and the mothers and the children
united and reunited is working. Thesupposed church, though guided situations that these
(05:23):
young mothers to be and the mothersand their children what they endured was horrific.
Using God as the reason for damnationfor these women for being just human
was inhumane And somehow the birth ofa baby, a gift from God is
sinful. Yet that twists the mind. For you see, it all needed
(05:48):
to be hidden because when it's hidden, it'll just go away. The shame
and the loss of these birth mothersis a lifetime journey, and I believe
it's generational. Sometimes in life wecome to a fork in the road where
every choice can lead to heartbreak.Occasionally the thorny path we choose ultimately leads
(06:16):
to a happy ending. Thomas Gormanin this episode of The Family Balancing Act,
I am so very very honored tohave the authors of I Called Her
Mary a Memoir, Margaret O'Hagan andThomas Gorman. We are also so very
(06:38):
blessed to have Mary Mary Buhler joiningus here on the Family Balancing Act.
Their story, their mother's story andbirth mother's story and mother in law's story
and memoir is one of faith,hope and love. In I called Her,
(07:02):
Mary, Peg O'Hagan recalls, astold by her son in law Thomas
Gorman, the heart rendering story ofgiving her baby daughter away, only to
be reunited with her. Its reunitedwith her fifty years later, and a
continent away. As an unwed teenin the nineteen fifties Catholic Ireland, Peg
(07:29):
was faced with keeping the daughter sheloved dearly or giving her baby a chance
to escape a life of ridicule andostracism. The story provides inspiration to all
the separated mothers and children searching foreach other. It is also a love
(07:53):
story between Peg and the man whosaved her when she came to America.
PEG's tail of hardship and unconditional lovecarry the reader through to the end.
I absolutely love this book. Youcan feel it in your heart. So
(08:16):
I cannot wait to introduce you toPeg, Thomas and Mary. It is
an absolute honor to have you heretoday, and I just love your story.
I can so relate to it.Thank you, thank you, thank
you. Just on mute yourselves there. That was beautiful, Thank you.
(08:39):
It was beautiful, making me cryalready. Please, I really you're This
book is is amazing on so manylevels. There's so much information and I
absolutely love them. All of theresearch you've done. Also, it's it's
not only the story, but it'sthe backing of the story. There's just
(09:03):
you've done a lot, a lotof work. So why don't we do
a little round table here and everybodytell a little bit about themselves and a
little bit about your background. SoTom, how about I start with you?
So, Tom Gorman, I'm aneducator. I'm now a superintendent of
(09:24):
schools in northeastern New Jersey. Andyou know, this story came out several
years ago and we kept on sittingaround talking about someone should write it down,
someone should write it down, andeverybody's like looking at each other and
nobody's going to do it. ButI had a history background and I enjoyed
this kind of stuff, So Istarted, you know, writing down some
of the notes. But Peg didn'twant to tell the story. Peg just
(09:46):
just didn't want to share the pain. Again. She spent the whole lifetime
trying to forget it, but finally, after her husband Mick passed, she
finally had the courage and finally saidlet's let's do this, let's share it.
And originally it was just for thefamily and we were just going to
do this for as a family legacyso the grandkids and someone can know about
(10:07):
this. But then as friends andneighbors heard about this, they wanted a
copy. We gave him a copy, and then it just grew and grew
and grew, and that's what bringsus today to this podcast. So thank
you for having us Marine so honored, really and truly. So, Maggie,
why don't we go with you nextme Maggie or the other Maggie.
(10:28):
Okay, now, Maggie's all right, I'm Maggie. I'm gonna go with
Maggie, my sisters Mary, We'regonna do that. We'll distinguish it.
I'm Maggie Gorman, and my gorgeoushusband is the one who wrote the book.
And the amazing woman is my mother, Peg O'Hagan. So I know
there's a lot of pegs and Margaret'sand Mary's and stuff. So my mom
(10:52):
is the Margaret O'Hagan on the bookwith my husband. I am Margaret Gorman
now, but Margaret O'Hagan Gorman andum, it's just an honor to talk
to you. And we're so gratefulfor your beautiful introduction. And anytime we
get to talk about my parents isis an honor and a blessing because they
(11:15):
were the greatest and and I'm justprivileged to be a part of all of
it, and privileged to be theirdaughter, and and and the more we
talk about it, you know,there was more pride and love because of
her journey and and uh, andI'm just I'm just amazed that this is
(11:35):
this is a thing because she justlived her life every day like that and
not even knowing that she was ahero every day and then for everybody to
experience it. I always said thatin my life that the more people my
mother knew, the better this worldwould be. So she's still spreading her
(11:56):
her magic. And I'm just honoredto be here. So thank you,
Maggan. Thank you so much forsharing that I marry Mary Mary one might
be lived and follow all those people. Oh my gosh, my name is
Mary Boehler. I am the Maryin the book. I was. I'm
(12:18):
a retired teacher now, but andI taught in Catholic schools all my life.
When this all occurred. It's justa miracle to me. I mean,
it's like a story. You know. I get around in my daily
life and I'm doing my thing,and then I sit down and I go,
Holy moly, this really happened tous. And it's a very rare
(12:39):
story, I believe, and it'sall because of my mother and finding her
fifties fifty years later after my mompassed. Dorothy after she had passed,
found some paperwork and the rest ishistory. And it's unbelievable how I have
been accepted into this family. Ialways say I fell into a real pot
(13:01):
of gold when I found these guys. So I it's just a miracle,
and Tag and Rick are just Ifeel blessed and honored that I got to
connect with them at the time wedid. And this family is unbelievable.
So always always willing to tell thisbeautiful story. And as always I think
(13:22):
my brother in law he took itand ran and he just did a fabulous
job. So glad to be withyou Maureen today. Well, So honored
truly, And this story is onethat has been told in many different versions,
as we chatted about briefly before wewent to record, But so many
(13:45):
times women have their children out ofwedlock, and the shame and the blame
and the the horrific situation around notbeing good enough, being at the part
of the throwaway that society not onlyis the mother but the child even when
they're detached. But now today inIreland there's so many organizations trying to pull
(14:15):
together these women to meet with theirchildren. And sometimes it works out,
and sometimes it doesn't, and sometimesit works out for a little while and
it doesn't, and then sometimes itdoesn't work out in the beginning at all,
and then it works out beautifully inthe end and we're all just humans
(14:35):
banging into each other. But it'sgreat to have a resolve and the result.
Your resolve is beautiful. I knowmy resolve is beautiful, Ethna rings
resolve is beautiful. So in writingthis story in really you really grabbed everything
(15:00):
peg Hat said every you know herlanguaging, her, swearing, her,
you know her being real irish,I was like, I totally related.
I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. What was it
like to sit opposite this amazing womanget her to keep to finally when she
agreed to it, to like,get her going so you know, she
(15:20):
you know, when you look backat your life, you know, you
don't think about it was anything thatwas that amazing. You know, you
just do it. You know,she was just like you just lived.
You just move on. Everything justkeeps moving forward. So when we actually
sat and you had to ask thequestions, you know, she starts to
remember. And we sat in ourliving room, we built a fire and
we would talk and and just havea casual conversation with a cup of tea.
(15:41):
But the cup, yeah, wedid. We had the tea and
everything absolutely and uh. And itjust occurred over many many months, you
know, and then I would askher the same question over time, just
make sure there was consistency so shewould remember everything correctly. And she was,
you know, as straight as anythingwith her stories and remembering. So
the stories started coming out, andyou know, I had to probe different
(16:02):
ways to get different different stories andfigure out the best. And then I
would go out to Chicago and Iwould interview Mary, or when Mary was
out here and I would interview herand then I would get her story a
little bit, and you know,you start putting together and I transcribed the
story and then it all just startedcoming together. But as for the language,
yes, I had to cut outsome of the swears too. There
(16:23):
was just too many with the wayshe talks. But I love it.
But the difficult part was also youknow, I had two voices, so
you had Mary's voice and PEG's voice, and me being the writer. My
voice would slip in there and Ihad to be very conscious of that and
try to pull it out. Andthere was many times I would say no,
(16:44):
that's what I would say, andI had to extract that and then
make sure I was being true tothe two people that were telling the story.
Wow, I could see where thatwould be hard, but I really
felt that she was in the roomwith me and Mary, you were there.
You know, as I read throughit, I was bawling my eyeballs
out at times, just not evenseparated from my own story. This just
(17:11):
the path she walked was really hard, and God bless her. She really
um came out strong and you hadan amazing father, Maggie. You know
I did. Um. You knowwe we' well, you know, all
of our families, we all haveour stuff, right, everybody has our
(17:33):
stuff, But you know, mydad is and was my hero as long
as also with my mom, andyou know, we look back to as
as adults, as wives and husbandsand you know, mothers, and there's
just such another appreciation for all thatthey went through, and then you have
(17:56):
to appreciate the time that it wasall happening too. We can all be
very critical of how life has evolvednow, but when you're talking about the
nineteen fifties and then getting married innineteen sixty and those circumstances that we may
look at a little bit like easiernow to do, even though there's still
(18:17):
a stigma to it at that time, for my dad to accept it and
my mom to trust him to takethat story, you know, again,
all those different choices, you know, for my grandmother in Ireland to tell
my mom, you know, trustthem, don't start you don't start your
life on a lie. And asecret is beyond beyond wise, because that
(18:41):
that's the game changer, that's thegame changer of our whole destiny, of
our whole life, and the foundationof my parents marriage too, that he
protected her and she trusted him withthat and it was never thrown back in
her face. And my dad wouldalways say, you know, so I'm
gonna be that's all right, noworries. I'm a teacher in a basement.
(19:03):
Is the only quiet place in thetimer goes. Also, I apologize,
so every ten minutes I'm going tobe doing that. But my father
and mother were amazing, And likeI said, as a mother now and
as a wife, you see thatrespect and that honor of that and the
protection that he always had of her. And you know, I always knew
(19:27):
my mom had a hole in herheart before she even told me about my
sister. You know, there wasalways that that place for my sister that
never went away, rightfully. Soso to get this gift to have my
sister in our life literally filled mymom's heart, made a whole and nobody
(19:51):
deserved it more than her. Youknow, Maureen, you talk about choices.
You said before about the thorny youknow, fork in the road,
and we all come to those.So you know, when Peg made the
choice to come to America, herparents chose to accept her. She meets
Mick. Mick chooses to accept herand start their life together. You know,
you moved down the road. Andthen Mary chooses to go and try
(20:12):
and find her birth more there.So these are all choices. Any one
of them could have just totally destroyedthe story and it would have stopped with
the dead end. But these areall conscious choices that people made, and
they were very brave choices. Sothat's what makes the story so beautiful and
really meant to be just totally meantto be totally just as you say,
(20:34):
the bravery just step into it andto just go with it is remarkable.
So Mary, what was it thatmade you step into that that path to
(20:55):
really trust? Right? It wasI knew that, you know, the
whole thing, because we know inthe book, I knew I was adopted.
Um, a lot of things camealong in my life. I was
getting married, so I needed mybirth certificate. Didn't have that. So
we've got you know, I'm goingup to my parents asking for some documentation
of some sort. And as wewent on, my my my dad was,
(21:17):
you know, he goes, we'rerelated because you know I have a
I have a you know, anuncle from Ireland, so we've got to
be related my adopted dad, youknow, And so I go, Dad,
were related somehow, that's you know, And that mom was more tentative.
She was like, Uh, whydo you want to I just would
ask questions, you know, mom, do you have any more about my
(21:37):
you know, my adoption? Andshe does, why do you want to
know? You know, and Igo, you or my mom? I
had to always, you know,bill verify that with her. She was
I think she was scared, youknow, probably scared that all of a
sudden I'm going to go off andand I never ever had that intention.
It was just a child interest,you know. And then all of a
sudden she passed, and all beat. My brother comes up, Harry comes
(22:00):
up with me with I found thisand Dad's you know, writing, and
it was all my documentation except formy first certificate, and like, oh
my gosh, there was my passportand then my you know, my as
started ticket ticking and thinking and andall of a sudden my husband comes up.
He goes, why don't we arrangea trip to Ireland with the kids,
my two children, and let's justgo stay see if we can find
(22:22):
out maybe she's still there. AndI'm going, okay, you know,
absolutely, let's go. And youknow, went to went in went in
July of oh eight and didn't knowthese little guys were there in March of
o eight. You know, allis a family going to see Moms where
she lived, and at that timeher brother was alive living in the same
(22:44):
house, and so we ended upgoing there. And that's sister Mary helped
us. You know, I can'tI can't run from it, and so
she helped us just beautifully. Wefound out a little bit more information um
and then went back. Never foundher in Ireland. They tried. Sister
called me and uh said, uh, you know, we did find her.
(23:06):
But and sister contacted the English,you know, the England in England,
her brother in England, and thenI started getting excited. I go,
while this isn't you know, gonnago anywhere. But I was in
her homeland. I went back toIreland with my kids. So it was
wonderful. So anyway, in Novemberis I think yet November? All of
a sudden I get a STIX inthe morning pop from Sister Mary and she
(23:30):
goes hello, and I go,Sister Mary like that, She goes,
I think I found your mom,you know SI the morning I had had
coffee or anything, you know,told me did a drink then, and
she said she got ahold of mymom and asked her if it was okay
(23:52):
to give me her number, andshe said yes, and I guess she
asked peg. She goes, uh, do you know why I'm calling me?
She goes, is my Mary lookingfor me? So I was like,
you know, I think Mary's lookingfor me, you know, and
she said, yes she is,and Mom gave her permission to give me
the number. Of course, theyhad to go to work. So I'm
(24:14):
like, all day I'm screaming atschool. I'm telling my eighth graders I
think I'm insane, you know,you know, and they're like, okay,
okay, you know, eighth graders. And so I went home that
night and I called her, andyou run all the interrogation I went through
with Mick, which was awesome.You know, he did the right thing,
he really did. He was pheonedin and just clearing you so that
(24:37):
you're not a nutc absolutely creeper comingin, you know. And then she's
on the phone with her. Shegoes, I'll let me talk to her,
you know, And then the journeyfrom there was unbelievable. I said,
I wanted I just wanted to knowwhat you did was right. I'm
good, I'm fine, you know, you have two new grand and she's
(24:59):
crying, she goes, I meanyear this thing, and then I said,
I'd love to meet you, andshe was at one, I want
to see you again. And herewe go and beg my daughter just had
to be turning forty in January.How does that sound? You know?
I said, sounds great. Soand then it started and there was Mick,
remember that big I turned the cornerand he's got these flours for him
(25:22):
and you know, just gave mea big hug and he was very emotional
emotional from there like mag he said, it just it just went crazy.
I mean they were all sitting Ilooked like her, walk like her.
You know, they were all makingfun of me. So it was good.
It was awesome. It's like I'dalways been there, so I was
wonderful. That is just so beautifuland I am I love that. I
(25:49):
know. The first time that mymother met her birth daughter, oh,
her daughter was like just as hewas a you know, are emotional.
And my father only found out abouttwenty four hours in advance, and it
was my mom. She was sheonly she lived like another three months.
(26:12):
But it was one of those thingsthat the story had to move forward,
we had to make this happen andmy father was just as gracious as your
dad, which was just beautiful becauseit you know, he was like my
(26:32):
mother was always afraid of telling himbecause and this is where for us,
the big secret was that, youknow, she never told him, so
she carted the stuff around all thetime, whereas you know, Peg didn't
do that. She actually stood inher truth and knew she could lose the
man of her dreams. But shestayed true to herself and true to God
(26:52):
and true to who she needed,you know who she was, and she
she did that, whereas my mother'sstayed true to herself. But her truth
was that everybody leaves me, they'llbe pulled away from me. He'll leave
me. And that was the lastthing that man would ever do with that.
(27:14):
That sorry, that innerals are there, Maggie. When you found out
your sister's name Mary, but wasn'tMary. That wasn't her name through childhood,
what were your thoughts around that?I thought it was hysterical. I
thought, you can't make this up. There's five names in Ireland that everybody
(27:37):
uses and that's it, and Ijust thought it was crazy because the reality
of it, though, Maureen,is that her name was Maggie and her
husband's name is Tom, and shewas a teacher. And I'm like,
and that's the first thing my momtells me on the phone, because after
she got off the phone with mysister, I called old her. I
(28:00):
said, how to go, howto go? And she my mom was
kind of not really digesting everything,but that's what she said. She's like,
well, her name is Maggie,her husband's name is Tom, and
she's a teacher. And I'm waslike, Mom, are you kidding me
right now? And she's like,well, I go Tom, Maggie and
a teacher. And she's like,oh my god. She starts screaming,
(28:22):
Maga, did you understand that?Like it was? You just can't make
it up. It's a bad movie. It's a bad movie. It's an
irony movie. Yes it is,you know, but it was you know,
it's it's funny, but it makessense. And my sister's just so
gracious that my mom did ask her, like, is it okay if we
call you Mary like that? That'swhat I named you. And we already
(28:42):
have a Maggie, we already havea Margaret like and just make and you
know, it just makes things easierThat's basically what it was. You know,
there was no real sentiment to it. It was just like, it
makes things easier if we can callyou Mary, if that's okay. It's
business business, right, So thisis so to be honest with you,
(29:03):
there has been no jealousy or anythingI've been. I told you that was
going to happen, no worries,just keep talking. My husband is cringing,
by the way, my husband iscringing that this is happening. Something
tells me he's dealt with things likethis before a little bit, a little
bit. But now it's public,Maureen, So now everybody knows. But
(29:27):
you know, here exactly, there'sjust where there hasn't been any jealousy.
And it's just not my nature too. I've always just been very grateful and
again I stemming from my parents.There's no need to be jealous of anything.
You'd be grateful for what you haveand you'd be happy for others.
(29:48):
And what a gift. I mean, one, I have a sister,
and two she filled my mother's heartlike she literally made my mother his heart
whole. And she's beyond amazing,my sister, beyond And when people say
that we're alike and we are.It's the biggest compliment to me because you
(30:11):
could just watch her and she justshe's amazing. She's amazing, and there's
nothing but beauty coming out of her. And she's just like our mom.
She's just like our mom. Solike you can't deny any of them,
and that we were meant to betogether and that our journeys were supposed to
(30:33):
be this way, because I wouldsay to my mom because as you know
through the book, my mom didshare that story with me when I was
going through some twenty year old stuff, and my mom shared that story with
me to kind of put me inmy place in a positive way. As
you know, my mom sayings oflike, you know, if everybody put
their problems in a pile, you'dgrab yours and run. And when I
(30:57):
was going through my stuff, sheshared that with me, and it kind
of put me in my place like, Okay, now I gotta Now I'm
going to take care of my mom, like my stuff is here, and
she's helping me to heal by sharingthat. And and then we just had
that twenty year relationship of talking aboutmy sister. Do you want to find
(31:18):
your mom? What do we do? And how do you feel? And
and it was I'm sure it wasa great outlet for her to have between
us, just yet another bond becauseshe was literally my best friend, my
best best best friend in the world, and we were able to share those
good and bad and hard times.And the story just kind of reaffirms everything
(31:40):
that I that she shared with meover that time frame of opening up to
me. So there's no room foranything but joy and gratitude. There's just
no room for it. And andthat's that's my little love fest for my
sister. And did we up?Did you want? Did you ever ask
(32:01):
your mom for a sister? Didyou? I mean, probably, you
know, probably I was just likesuch a tomboy because I was the youngest
and my three brothers and I justwanted to do everything that they did and
wanted to be everywhere that they were. And I was such a pain in
the But I always say to them, I don't know how they love me
as much as they do because Iwas a nightmare as I just was relentless,
(32:24):
relentless, relentless. But of courseI would say, you know,
like why am I the only girl? Or you know what I mean,
just kind of stuff like that,but not it wasn't prominent because again it's
like, this is our life becausemy mom had miscarriages too. My mom
had five miscarriages. Yeah, soI knew also like to be grateful that
(32:45):
I was even alive because it wasam I to be like, who the
hell am I? To be like, well, where's another baby? Because
my mom almost died having the otherbabies. So again, it was never
like I wish, but of courseyou wonder. Of course you always like
imagine and wonder, and then whenit happened and then I get her,
it's like are you crazy? Right? Well, and I feel bad time
(33:07):
I'm leaving out one more question fromMary. Mary, did you want a
sister growing up? Did you everthink about how you wanted a sister?
Absolutely? Absolutely, because I hadmy brother and there was there's a thirteen
year difference between me and my brotherone, you know, so then I
(33:30):
absolutely wanted a sister. So,you know, God helped the women that
were in my life that you know, like my friends and stuff, like
you're like through the me, Iwas a nerd. I was terrible going
right back at Margaret and I endup waiting the way it was well worth
it well worth it. This woman, her heart and her soul is with
(33:52):
everybody that knows her. She's unbelievable. When I first came in, I
have never heard this is my sister, even from my brothers. It just
didn't happen. The weekend I camein, they went by, you know,
they're scratching my head and they're kissingme and they're they're going, I
love you. That's my sister.She's from Chicago. You just see everyone
(34:13):
in the room. But you know, sister sisters, they're never happy,
you know. And Mom was ariot because she loved playing with people's minds.
After we stopped were established, andI'd come in and because we'd be
at breakfast, you know, someonecome up and Mom and goes, it's
my daughter, Maggie. Yes,she's from Chicago. All of them know
this Maggie. You know, I'mgoing, oh, no, she's gonna
(34:35):
stay. She's gonna say it allof a sudden, Yeah, she's all
legitimate. She'd say it at thebreakfast table and I would be like,
yes, it's so different. Imean, she would just freak them out
because they knew Maggie. They knewMaggie, and they go bust Meg,
and I go, it's the otherone. She was so proud and she
wanted to tell everybody, well it'syeah. She was just you know,
(34:57):
after which she went through her journey, saw you in Ireland where the Irish
are amazing and so heart and lovefilth. But if you you know,
in those days, you stepped outa line and forget it. The emotional
and verbal abuse was like so sheher she was using that power of her
(35:22):
voice and that was that was yourpride in the situation and correcting it.
She was correcting it with humor.So that's perfect, Maureen. That's a
great point. Like she was donewith the shame. Yeah, she was.
She was done with the shame thatshe had carried for so long,
(35:42):
and then knowing that what she didwas the right thing to do. And
like I said earlier, we wouldsay that to my mom, Like you
know, I would say, I'mlike, Mom, if you didn't do
what you did, as painful asit was, you wouldn't have come here,
you wouldn't have met Dad, andyou wouldn't have had us, and
like that was your destiny. Igo. Now, I'm not trying to
(36:05):
sound corny, but literally it waslike. God was like, I know
this is going to stink, buttrust it because you're going to be led
to the greatest man in the worldthat's going to love you, and then
you're going to have four more childrenthat will worship the ground you walk on
and and do whatever you need todo, and then leave this imprint on
(36:27):
the world that she has. Um, it's just it's just you know,
I know it sounds like it's soinflated, but it really it's not.
They were my parents were larger thanlife. It's the adustry. It really
is history. I use that allthe time as a visual because and it
doesn't even mean that it's like atapestry of rolling hills and beautiful trees and
(36:52):
sets and there. It's just colorsof how we move in and out of
life. And and some of thosethreads are there because that's what's meant to
be, that's our destiny. Andyou can change how the other colors work
around it, but it's what usTom. Yeah, no, just no,
Just to tie it in a word. So when we were writing the
(37:15):
story, you know, I originallystarted writing the story I was going to
do each chapter was going to beone chapter about Peg, one chapter about
Mary and just have them juxtaposed tomove throughout. And then after a couple
of chapters, Mary's life, unfortunatelywas pretty boring. You know, it's
right. There was nothing really excitingthat was going to counter you know,
so she had a normal childhood,she said, So said, okay,
(37:37):
that's not going to work. Sothen we told PEG's story and then and
the whole thing about stories, andthis is what this whole thing is about,
is you had Peg telling me herstory, and then when I interviewed
Mary, Mary told me her story. But then there were certain parts that
were not lining up and sinking upcorrectly. And this was coming out over
months and years when Mary and Pegwould have a drink at Shortway's barn and
(38:00):
they would get together and sit inthe back porch and they would share because
if you think about it, whenyou're growing up and you have all the
Christmas holidays and family gatherings, youshare stories and everybody corrects everybody, No,
it didn't happen that way. Itdidn't happen that way. Well,
Peg didn't have anybody to correct orto verify her version of the story for
fifty years, so she went intotrauma and shock and did whatever she had
(38:22):
to do to survive. As shetold herself, this narrative, Mary has
a different narrative from where she grewup. And then when I got the
actual documents, and that's where thehistorian I mean comes out. The documents
weren't lining up with either of theirstories. So he said, this truth
always has three sides, and sothat's when we consciously decided to tell all
(38:42):
three sides. Mary's version, PEG'sversion, and then where the documents were
saying. And that's what you know. The truth is somewhere in between all
of that, and that's how thestory, you know, takes you through
the second half of the book.Yeah, as I started with earlier,
the amount of research and all ofthose paper I was thinking, how did
you find this stuff? I knowhow that happens, and you have to
(39:05):
read the book, but it's reallyphenomenal. Not everybody gets that opportunity to
have that much information show up.Now. We were very lucky, and
in fact it was I remember itwas August and I was struggling with like
this, something's missing, you know, and then the file pops up and
I have all these documents and Iremember laying them all out on the kitchen
table and going over and over andthen sharing with my wife. I'm like,
(39:29):
something's not right here, something's thatI'm writing. I had to write
it all down chronologically. Away asecond, I go, oh, we
got a whole other version of truthhere, and that's what comes out,
you know. Yeah, it's reallyfabulous. What would you recommend for anybody
who wants to write their memoir?Because I know you started this, as
you said, as a family project. This is something for guys to pass
(39:51):
down through the years so that there'sa line through history showing what happened.
You know, how how'd you allend up here with? Yeah? But
as you say, this just turnedinto something that actually is very poignant and
timely in not only how in Irelandobviously, but throughout the world and certainly
(40:15):
in the United States, Like alot of this is all bubbling up,
a lot of people are searching fortheir families. But would how do you
begin? Yeah? I mean you'vegot to begin with just the truth as
you know it, and you haveto start writing it down for what you
know, and then you start lookingfor how do you branch off? You
(40:36):
know, who could I talk toso then I started talking to aunts and
uncles and then I actually we stillstay in touch with some of our my
wife's cousins in England, and theywere telling me other stories. And then
you just keep on putting the storiestogether, and then you try to bounce
the stories off of different people toget their versions of that, and you
just keep on writing, writing,writing, and it's a it's a long
process. You know, I hada full time job and of course a
(40:59):
family and every thing, and youknow, it took five years to put
this whole thing together. It wasmore of a labor of love. But
you know, you have to justkeep on asking the questions, keep on
going back to the questions and justtrying to get to the hard truth,
and sometimes you run into a lotof dead ends and then you just got
to leave it. Like the onepart that you know, I regret.
I wish I had mixed version ofthe story. But he passed before we
(41:21):
started writing this, so I knewsome things that he had told me privately
and other times that I was ableto weave some of that stuff in,
but he never got, you know, the whole story from him and his
perspective, which you know is apiece that's missing, but you do the
best you can. So that wouldbe the whole thing is, you know,
try and do as much research onthe topic and then try to put
(41:42):
all the family stuff together, andthen you got to follow the timeline,
so you know. So then Istarted doing that research, and I started
finding out about all the other babies, the mother you know, daughter commission,
the uh, the the Magdalen laundriieswhich I didn't know about, you
know, all these other avenues thatwomen and how to go through. So
it's it's really sad time of Irishhistory, but you do have these beautiful
(42:07):
stories that do emerge from it.And that's why we told the story to
give people hope. You know,not every story definitely has a dead end,
but it hopefully gives some people somehope that they can find their their
family story. Because everybody's got them. Everybody has them, and everybody's got
skeletons in the closet. So it'sa matter of just you know, you
know, binding them out and tryingto put them all together and open that
closet that's right clear out. It'strue, it's so important to really do
(42:32):
the work because when we do thework certainly for if we don't want to
look at our own skeletons, maybelooking at our parents or grandparents, starting
to try to just get some clarityaround that, because it will end up
clearing our skeletons. Also, thereare reasons we make choices. For myself,
the reason why I made a choicewhen I got pregnant prior to marriage,
(42:54):
who is different from the choice mymother made, And if I had
known maybe her choice, maybe I'mto have done that. But I agree
with you, and I think that'swhat history is all about. If you
learn from others, whether it betheir triumphs, their mistakes, their their
stories. I think that empowers,you know, the future generations. It
(43:14):
empowers our children to share the storiesand share the truth. The prior generations
kept everything secret. You keep themin the closet and you don't want to,
you know, the shame or whatever. But I think that does more
harm because it doesn't teach the nextgeneration of what they can do and how
they learn grow from that. AndI think this openness that we have now
with the Internet, social media,with books, people telling your podcast is
(43:37):
wonderful. With all these people sharingthese stories is a way to get it
out, and I think it justarms people for the future and strengthens them.
Thank you. That's that's a profoundstatement on many levels, not only
for this story, but for allstories that we have, and how getting
back to basics, getting back toyou know, to learning from our elders,
(44:00):
even if they're not here, isso very important. So as we
start to wrap up, what wasyour favorite part, and I'm gonna start
with whomever wants to, I won'tdo that to you. Your favorite part
of this, favorite moment in thisjourney, the big moment. What was
(44:22):
that big moment? I think Ihave an idea what it was, but
you know, I'll just start thefavorite moment I guess was the well we
went to Shoreway's barn and we hadwe had a podcast and we had a
film crew and it hit the newspapersand there was a line out the door
in a snowy weather and people werecoming in march. We had bagpipers and
(44:45):
everything. We got to tell thestory. There were pints of guinness flowing
and it was just a culmination ofeverything. And it was a celebration of
Mick and PEG's lives, who wasa celebration of Mary and Maggie and everybody
coming together. The story is outthere. There's no more shame, there's
anything like that. And to seeso much love and support and we were
(45:06):
just joking, like since one doesa sports bar have a book signing and
it has his biggest crowd ever.But it just shows you that these stories
really tug at the heartstrings of somany people, and these stories resonate with
so many people. That was likea really proud, great moment because it
really is a celebration. And Ithink we have to celebrate these family stories
and not hide them away. AndI think we have to learn from them
(45:29):
and grow and just share the lovewhile you have this short amount of time
on earth. So that is wonderful. Well, well that's why I love
him exactly. That's why I lovehim. And you know, I agree
with my husband because to be honest, you know, like when he talks
about and not to be negative inany way, Like I don't know if
(45:51):
my dad would have shared this story. I don't. I don't think he
would have. I don't just likemy mom kind of waited for him to
pass, like I said, respectingthat time frame. You know, it's
easier, it is better for us, Like in our children are more accepting
of it, because my mom,when this came out, she was petrified
that we would all think of herdifferently. She was petrified that the grandchildren
(46:15):
would think she's what everybody called herin Ireland. So we have to respect
that process. But truly we haveto embrace our right and wrong decisions and
because they are making us who weare, and they do put us on
(46:36):
the path that we may not seethe joys or the benefits of it till
later on in life. But wehave to forgive ourselves one hundred percent as
we move and learn and teach andand and try to be better. And
that's what this book is. Becauseit is hard for me. It was
hard for me to work on thisbook. It was hard for me to
(46:57):
read it. My husband was onit and I did say to him,
I go, I know this isyour book, but it's about my mother.
And I felt very, very veryprotective of her because I knew how
hard it was for her. Butat the same time, the the reception
and everyone's love for it has beenoverwhelming, and that day in short ways,
was beyond a tribute to my parentsand obviously my husband for putting this
(47:21):
out there, and I'm so sograteful for everything that he does. But
that prideful moment was just overwhelmed.That's all I kept saying, is like,
what is happening? Oh my god. Every time I'm talking this goes
out. I think it's my mothertalking to us too. Yeah, but
(47:42):
it's that that moment at short Waysand Flavio Romeo, who put us on
the podcast and initiated that whole thing, initiated the book signing um, you
know, and then having over fivehundred people come to just embrace this story
again, It's it's overwhelming. It'soverwhelming and humbling every time. And it's
(48:05):
this and it is part of yourum giving back to the world by taking
your mother's story and being of servicebecause that's what we're here for us to
be of service. So this isyour service, your mits for whatever you
want to call it. Mary.My favorite part was when I turned the
(48:29):
corner. If I can get thisout, When I turned the corner,
it sorr, you know, Ias a mob, as a mom,
I thought, oh my gosh,she hasn't seen me at fifty years,
and I was like, what wouldI feel? My pocket was eighteen months,
and I thought giving him away forbetter, I said, I don't
(48:51):
know what I would have done.And they'll look her face and I just
watched her face and it was ohmy god, and not not eagles centric
way, it was like, ohmy god, she's here, you know.
And I was like, it wasunbelievable, and then basically selfish a
little bit. But to see herrelaxed into her just burden just left from
(49:14):
her shoulder was unbelievable. And I'llalways remember. And then the twenty two
people that were standing there that actuallycame out, it was it was overwhelming.
And my brother Patrick holding the purse, that was great. But um,
that was my moment. And ofcourse short ways was unbelievable. And
(49:36):
the people that my family knows outhere, they are family, and they've
got a thousands or forty thousand peoplethat are family to them. But when
I saw her, uh, thatwas it. That was it. That
was the moment I knew it was. I knew it was going to be
okay for her and so and andthe acceptance, like you said, Mags,
(49:58):
like the acceptance of all of ourkids. It's too like there was
never never a skip of like wellwho is that. It was like,
oh, that's Jaran Mary. They'relike oh okay, Like it was literally
that progressive, that smooth. Likemy kids being the younger ones, they
don't remember life without her, theydon't know life without her when I grew
(50:20):
up with her kids. Yeah,so and all of them. But just
the automatic acceptance and me being inmy niece's wedding, her daughter's wedding,
and my mom being walking down theaisle of her children's wedding like it's it's
it's a miracle. It's a miracle. Here my kids, I got more
(50:43):
cousins. It just was crazy.It's started there. It's the ping they
were, the ping ping, thepebble in the water. Yeah, that
you are the ripple, and theripple is large and is meant to help
so many and so many women whoare sitting there even with the decision to
(51:08):
shall I even have this baby ornot because of the judgment and the shame
and the celebration of not having it, because that's what's celebrated in society.
Now that's every body's own path decision. But um, you know, in
(51:32):
honoring your mother, Um, youryou know, your your mother and your
your mother in law, my motherfor um for stepping in it and and
and standing strong and following their path. Um because now as I look at
my my kids have four other cousins, because my kids had no other no
(51:55):
cousins, and they have they have. My sister has four kids. I
have four kids. You know,it's it's a it's an awesome, awesome
thing. And I just will throwin that my Maggie Win. My kids
found out. Um. You knowwhen I went in and I trying to
tell my kids, and I toldmy eldest, who had just started college,
(52:20):
UM, I said I have totell you. I just and I
started crying. I said, Idon't know who to talk to because nobody's
home right now, and I needto tell you that Grandma had Grandma had
of a baby out of wedlock,and actually a right prior to that.
He's glued in front of the Yankeegame and this and and and there was
like probably basis load or whatever,and I'm like, and he's looking back
at me, he's looking at theTV. Looking back. I mean he
(52:42):
goes, oh, he goes,shuts the TV off. That never would
happen, but I guess I reallyhad that energy. Coming. He sits
down, he goes, what's up, Mom? I go, you canna
agree? You your grandmother had hada baby out of wedlock. And then
he goes, really, oh,Grandma's so cool. Eactly, And that
(53:05):
was the energy I took for therest of the time. Then ran with
it and ran with it because ourchildren are not as judgmental. Absolutely no,
absolutely, just so beautiful and youguys are so beautiful. And I
just love this conversation. I couldtalk for another three hours me to think
about this. It's like really abig well, do a sequel. We'll
(53:29):
do a sequel. We'll do asequel. I'll bring Ethna in because that'll
with this. So where can wherecan everybody find your book? Where can
do you have a website? Wehave a website I called her Mary dot
com no spaces, and then onAmazon you can find I called her Mary.
A memoir is on Amazon as well, fabulous and that can be purchased
(53:52):
in overseas in other counts everywhere.Yeah, we have. We have sales
in six different countries from Australia tothe United Kingdom, England, Canada and
Europe. So it's it's doing prettywell. It's a little over a year
now that's been out there. We'rejust so happy that so many people are
enjoying this book and sharing their storieswith us after they read the book.
(54:15):
It's empowering, it's very empowering,and it's very moving. And again,
thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you for this opportunity much.
Oh you're so welcome, and soto our listeners, this is how
I kind of end. The endour show is just if everybody could just
take a moment, close your eyesand take a deep breath in and hold
(54:38):
it and let it go and knowthat you're not alone here on the Family
Balancing Act.
Welcome to where the screen door slamsand the coffee mug hits the table.
You're listening to The Family Balancing Actwith me Loureen Huntley, Mom, grandmother
and board certified Holistic and Functional Medicinehealth coach. Each episode will explore the
realities of your day to day familylife in this modern era of NonStop texts,
(00:27):
means and technology. After all,how do we keep ourselves saying,
hand our family healthy? I'll haveamazing guests and thought provoking discussions, and
we'll take a holistic look at familyhealth emotional, physical, mental, and
spiritual. Whether it's a micro perspectiveof family involving healthy snacks, teenagers with
(00:50):
an attitude, stressed out, husband'spartners, adult children, potty training,
eldercare, grandchildren, college breath,or a macro perspective of world events including
blue earthquakes, the brainwashing, media, finances, and oh so much more.
We'll find a way together. Sotake a deep, rapt exhale and
(01:11):
know that you're not alone. Bringon a Family Balancing Act. Welcome to
(01:47):
the Family Balancing Act, where restoringthe heart and art of motherhood starts with
one conversation at a time. I'mMaureen Huntley, your host board certified integrative
Holy Sick and Functional Medicine, healthcoach, emotional freedom technique, practitioner,
mom, grandmother, wife, andCEO of my family's home operations. So
(02:10):
come on in, grab a chair, grab a tea, coffee, green
juice, and let's talk. Somany threads make up all of our choices,
stories, our experiences, joys,loves and struggles, creating the most
(02:31):
magnificent tapestry filled with colors of emotionand textures of happiness and pain. These
sleek and tattered threads that are bothold and new are mine and yours.
We all have this masterpiece of atapestry of experiences showing a life lived.
(02:58):
The fabric of our human entity wisdom, courage, justice and temperance virtues.
Yet, in this human world,we judge ourselves and yes, others,
for the choices of what is right, wrong, good or bad. Really,
it's it's not ours to judge,including our own stuff. It's God's.
(03:23):
So reflect pray for forgiveness and apath forward. In my opinion,
the hardest critic to overcome as ourown, the stuff that we play over
and over in our heads. Ishould have would have could for the story
that happened twenty thirty, forty plusyears ago. Have you ever noticed that
(03:46):
the very thing you've been ruminating aboutshows up from family, friends, neighbors,
and even co workers when they decideto recount a story that involves a
little bit of your story? Arethe shame of your secret that very few
people know about? Maybe nobody knowsabout, but someone recounts the story of
(04:08):
another person that made a similar choiceyou did, and there ensues a conversation
about that being such a poor decision, and you feel it. Women and
their babies. So many stories,so many women all over the world have
(04:30):
given up their babies choices that theydidn't want to make. They gave them
up for adoption, or maybe theyhad an abortion but they didn't want to
do it. And no truer thanthis is in Ireland. In episode one
oh four of The Family Balancing Act, I had a big discussion with author
and birth mother Advocate Ethna Ring regardingthe veil that has finally been lifted through
(04:55):
the work of two SLI Child andFamily Agency. There's also the Mother and
Baby Homes Commission investigation in Ireland thatwas published in January twenty twenty one.
So the movement to clear to havethe names and the mothers and the children
united and reunited is working. Thesupposed church, though guided situations that these
(05:23):
young mothers to be and the mothersand their children what they endured was horrific.
Using God as the reason for damnationfor these women for being just human
was inhumane And somehow the birth ofa baby, a gift from God is
sinful. Yet that twists the mind. For you see, it all needed
(05:48):
to be hidden because when it's hidden, it'll just go away. The shame
and the loss of these birth mothersis a lifetime journey, and I believe
it's generational. Sometimes in life wecome to a fork in the road where
every choice can lead to heartbreak.Occasionally the thorny path we choose ultimately leads
(06:16):
to a happy ending. Thomas Gormanin this episode of The Family Balancing Act,
I am so very very honored tohave the authors of I Called Her
Mary a Memoir, Margaret O'Hagan andThomas Gorman. We are also so very
(06:38):
blessed to have Mary Mary Buhler joiningus here on the Family Balancing Act.
Their story, their mother's story andbirth mother's story and mother in law's story
and memoir is one of faith,hope and love. In I called Her,
(07:02):
Mary, Peg O'Hagan recalls, astold by her son in law Thomas
Gorman, the heart rendering story ofgiving her baby daughter away, only to
be reunited with her. Its reunitedwith her fifty years later, and a
continent away. As an unwed teenin the nineteen fifties Catholic Ireland, Peg
(07:29):
was faced with keeping the daughter sheloved dearly or giving her baby a chance
to escape a life of ridicule andostracism. The story provides inspiration to all
the separated mothers and children searching foreach other. It is also a love
(07:53):
story between Peg and the man whosaved her when she came to America.
PEG's tail of hardship and unconditional lovecarry the reader through to the end.
I absolutely love this book. Youcan feel it in your heart. So
(08:16):
I cannot wait to introduce you toPeg, Thomas and Mary. It is
an absolute honor to have you heretoday, and I just love your story.
I can so relate to it.Thank you, thank you, thank
you. Just on mute yourselves there. That was beautiful, Thank you.
(08:39):
It was beautiful, making me cryalready. Please, I really you're This
book is is amazing on so manylevels. There's so much information and I
absolutely love them. All of theresearch you've done. Also, it's it's
not only the story, but it'sthe backing of the story. There's just
(09:03):
you've done a lot, a lotof work. So why don't we do
a little round table here and everybodytell a little bit about themselves and a
little bit about your background. SoTom, how about I start with you?
So, Tom Gorman, I'm aneducator. I'm now a superintendent of
(09:24):
schools in northeastern New Jersey. Andyou know, this story came out several
years ago and we kept on sittingaround talking about someone should write it down,
someone should write it down, andeverybody's like looking at each other and
nobody's going to do it. ButI had a history background and I enjoyed
this kind of stuff, So Istarted, you know, writing down some
of the notes. But Peg didn'twant to tell the story. Peg just
(09:46):
just didn't want to share the pain. Again. She spent the whole lifetime
trying to forget it, but finally, after her husband Mick passed, she
finally had the courage and finally saidlet's let's do this, let's share it.
And originally it was just for thefamily and we were just going to
do this for as a family legacyso the grandkids and someone can know about
(10:07):
this. But then as friends andneighbors heard about this, they wanted a
copy. We gave him a copy, and then it just grew and grew
and grew, and that's what bringsus today to this podcast. So thank
you for having us Marine so honored, really and truly. So, Maggie,
why don't we go with you nextme Maggie or the other Maggie.
(10:28):
Okay, now, Maggie's all right, I'm Maggie. I'm gonna go with
Maggie, my sisters Mary, We'regonna do that. We'll distinguish it.
I'm Maggie Gorman, and my gorgeoushusband is the one who wrote the book.
And the amazing woman is my mother, Peg O'Hagan. So I know
there's a lot of pegs and Margaret'sand Mary's and stuff. So my mom
(10:52):
is the Margaret O'Hagan on the bookwith my husband. I am Margaret Gorman
now, but Margaret O'Hagan Gorman andum, it's just an honor to talk
to you. And we're so gratefulfor your beautiful introduction. And anytime we
get to talk about my parents isis an honor and a blessing because they
(11:15):
were the greatest and and I'm justprivileged to be a part of all of
it, and privileged to be theirdaughter, and and and the more we
talk about it, you know,there was more pride and love because of
her journey and and uh, andI'm just I'm just amazed that this is
(11:35):
this is a thing because she justlived her life every day like that and
not even knowing that she was ahero every day and then for everybody to
experience it. I always said thatin my life that the more people my
mother knew, the better this worldwould be. So she's still spreading her
(11:56):
her magic. And I'm just honoredto be here. So thank you,
Maggan. Thank you so much forsharing that I marry Mary Mary one might
be lived and follow all those people. Oh my gosh, my name is
Mary Boehler. I am the Maryin the book. I was. I'm
(12:18):
a retired teacher now, but andI taught in Catholic schools all my life.
When this all occurred. It's justa miracle to me. I mean,
it's like a story. You know. I get around in my daily
life and I'm doing my thing,and then I sit down and I go,
Holy moly, this really happened tous. And it's a very rare
(12:39):
story, I believe, and it'sall because of my mother and finding her
fifties fifty years later after my mompassed. Dorothy after she had passed,
found some paperwork and the rest ishistory. And it's unbelievable how I have
been accepted into this family. Ialways say I fell into a real pot
(13:01):
of gold when I found these guys. So I it's just a miracle,
and Tag and Rick are just Ifeel blessed and honored that I got to
connect with them at the time wedid. And this family is unbelievable.
So always always willing to tell thisbeautiful story. And as always I think
(13:22):
my brother in law he took itand ran and he just did a fabulous
job. So glad to be withyou Maureen today. Well, So honored
truly, And this story is onethat has been told in many different versions,
as we chatted about briefly before wewent to record, But so many
(13:45):
times women have their children out ofwedlock, and the shame and the blame
and the the horrific situation around notbeing good enough, being at the part
of the throwaway that society not onlyis the mother but the child even when
they're detached. But now today inIreland there's so many organizations trying to pull
(14:15):
together these women to meet with theirchildren. And sometimes it works out,
and sometimes it doesn't, and sometimesit works out for a little while and
it doesn't, and then sometimes itdoesn't work out in the beginning at all,
and then it works out beautifully inthe end and we're all just humans
(14:35):
banging into each other. But it'sgreat to have a resolve and the result.
Your resolve is beautiful. I knowmy resolve is beautiful, Ethna rings
resolve is beautiful. So in writingthis story in really you really grabbed everything
(15:00):
peg Hat said every you know herlanguaging, her, swearing, her,
you know her being real irish,I was like, I totally related.
I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. What was it
like to sit opposite this amazing womanget her to keep to finally when she
agreed to it, to like,get her going so you know, she
(15:20):
you know, when you look backat your life, you know, you
don't think about it was anything thatwas that amazing. You know, you
just do it. You know,she was just like you just lived.
You just move on. Everything justkeeps moving forward. So when we actually
sat and you had to ask thequestions, you know, she starts to
remember. And we sat in ourliving room, we built a fire and
we would talk and and just havea casual conversation with a cup of tea.
(15:41):
But the cup, yeah, wedid. We had the tea and
everything absolutely and uh. And itjust occurred over many many months, you
know, and then I would askher the same question over time, just
make sure there was consistency so shewould remember everything correctly. And she was,
you know, as straight as anythingwith her stories and remembering. So
the stories started coming out, andyou know, I had to probe different
(16:02):
ways to get different different stories andfigure out the best. And then I
would go out to Chicago and Iwould interview Mary, or when Mary was
out here and I would interview herand then I would get her story a
little bit, and you know,you start putting together and I transcribed the
story and then it all just startedcoming together. But as for the language,
yes, I had to cut outsome of the swears too. There
(16:23):
was just too many with the wayshe talks. But I love it.
But the difficult part was also youknow, I had two voices, so
you had Mary's voice and PEG's voice, and me being the writer. My
voice would slip in there and Ihad to be very conscious of that and
try to pull it out. Andthere was many times I would say no,
(16:44):
that's what I would say, andI had to extract that and then
make sure I was being true tothe two people that were telling the story.
Wow, I could see where thatwould be hard, but I really
felt that she was in the roomwith me and Mary, you were there.
You know, as I read throughit, I was bawling my eyeballs
out at times, just not evenseparated from my own story. This just
(17:11):
the path she walked was really hard, and God bless her. She really
um came out strong and you hadan amazing father, Maggie. You know
I did. Um. You knowwe we' well, you know, all
of our families, we all haveour stuff, right, everybody has our
(17:33):
stuff, But you know, mydad is and was my hero as long
as also with my mom, andyou know, we look back to as
as adults, as wives and husbandsand you know, mothers, and there's
just such another appreciation for all thatthey went through, and then you have
(17:56):
to appreciate the time that it wasall happening too. We can all be
very critical of how life has evolvednow, but when you're talking about the
nineteen fifties and then getting married innineteen sixty and those circumstances that we may
look at a little bit like easiernow to do, even though there's still
(18:17):
a stigma to it at that time, for my dad to accept it and
my mom to trust him to takethat story, you know, again,
all those different choices, you know, for my grandmother in Ireland to tell
my mom, you know, trustthem, don't start you don't start your
life on a lie. And asecret is beyond beyond wise, because that
(18:41):
that's the game changer, that's thegame changer of our whole destiny, of
our whole life, and the foundationof my parents marriage too, that he
protected her and she trusted him withthat and it was never thrown back in
her face. And my dad wouldalways say, you know, so I'm
gonna be that's all right, noworries. I'm a teacher in a basement.
(19:03):
Is the only quiet place in thetimer goes. Also, I apologize,
so every ten minutes I'm going tobe doing that. But my father
and mother were amazing, And likeI said, as a mother now and
as a wife, you see thatrespect and that honor of that and the
protection that he always had of her. And you know, I always knew
(19:27):
my mom had a hole in herheart before she even told me about my
sister. You know, there wasalways that that place for my sister that
never went away, rightfully. Soso to get this gift to have my
sister in our life literally filled mymom's heart, made a whole and nobody
(19:51):
deserved it more than her. Youknow, Maureen, you talk about choices.
You said before about the thorny youknow, fork in the road,
and we all come to those.So you know, when Peg made the
choice to come to America, herparents chose to accept her. She meets
Mick. Mick chooses to accept herand start their life together. You know,
you moved down the road. Andthen Mary chooses to go and try
(20:12):
and find her birth more there.So these are all choices. Any one
of them could have just totally destroyedthe story and it would have stopped with
the dead end. But these areall conscious choices that people made, and
they were very brave choices. Sothat's what makes the story so beautiful and
really meant to be just totally meantto be totally just as you say,
(20:34):
the bravery just step into it andto just go with it is remarkable.
So Mary, what was it thatmade you step into that that path to
(20:55):
really trust? Right? It wasI knew that, you know, the
whole thing, because we know inthe book, I knew I was adopted.
Um, a lot of things camealong in my life. I was
getting married, so I needed mybirth certificate. Didn't have that. So
we've got you know, I'm goingup to my parents asking for some documentation
of some sort. And as wewent on, my my my dad was,
(21:17):
you know, he goes, we'rerelated because you know I have a
I have a you know, anuncle from Ireland, so we've got to
be related my adopted dad, youknow, And so I go, Dad,
were related somehow, that's you know, And that mom was more tentative.
She was like, Uh, whydo you want to I just would
ask questions, you know, mom, do you have any more about my
(21:37):
you know, my adoption? Andshe does, why do you want to
know? You know, and Igo, you or my mom? I
had to always, you know,bill verify that with her. She was
I think she was scared, youknow, probably scared that all of a
sudden I'm going to go off andand I never ever had that intention.
It was just a child interest,you know. And then all of a
sudden she passed, and all beat. My brother comes up, Harry comes
(22:00):
up with me with I found thisand Dad's you know, writing, and
it was all my documentation except formy first certificate, and like, oh
my gosh, there was my passportand then my you know, my as
started ticket ticking and thinking and andall of a sudden my husband comes up.
He goes, why don't we arrangea trip to Ireland with the kids,
my two children, and let's justgo stay see if we can find
(22:22):
out maybe she's still there. AndI'm going, okay, you know,
absolutely, let's go. And youknow, went to went in went in
July of oh eight and didn't knowthese little guys were there in March of
o eight. You know, allis a family going to see Moms where
she lived, and at that timeher brother was alive living in the same
(22:44):
house, and so we ended upgoing there. And that's sister Mary helped
us. You know, I can'tI can't run from it, and so
she helped us just beautifully. Wefound out a little bit more information um
and then went back. Never foundher in Ireland. They tried. Sister
called me and uh said, uh, you know, we did find her.
(23:06):
But and sister contacted the English,you know, the England in England,
her brother in England, and thenI started getting excited. I go,
while this isn't you know, gonnago anywhere. But I was in
her homeland. I went back toIreland with my kids. So it was
wonderful. So anyway, in Novemberis I think yet November? All of
a sudden I get a STIX inthe morning pop from Sister Mary and she
(23:30):
goes hello, and I go,Sister Mary like that, She goes,
I think I found your mom,you know SI the morning I had had
coffee or anything, you know,told me did a drink then, and
she said she got ahold of mymom and asked her if it was okay
(23:52):
to give me her number, andshe said yes, and I guess she
asked peg. She goes, uh, do you know why I'm calling me?
She goes, is my Mary lookingfor me? So I was like,
you know, I think Mary's lookingfor me, you know, and
she said, yes she is,and Mom gave her permission to give me
the number. Of course, theyhad to go to work. So I'm
(24:14):
like, all day I'm screaming atschool. I'm telling my eighth graders I
think I'm insane, you know,you know, and they're like, okay,
okay, you know, eighth graders. And so I went home that
night and I called her, andyou run all the interrogation I went through
with Mick, which was awesome.You know, he did the right thing,
he really did. He was pheonedin and just clearing you so that
(24:37):
you're not a nutc absolutely creeper comingin, you know. And then she's
on the phone with her. Shegoes, I'll let me talk to her,
you know, And then the journeyfrom there was unbelievable. I said,
I wanted I just wanted to knowwhat you did was right. I'm
good, I'm fine, you know, you have two new grand and she's
(24:59):
crying, she goes, I meanyear this thing, and then I said,
I'd love to meet you, andshe was at one, I want
to see you again. And herewe go and beg my daughter just had
to be turning forty in January.How does that sound? You know?
I said, sounds great. Soand then it started and there was Mick,
remember that big I turned the cornerand he's got these flours for him
(25:22):
and you know, just gave mea big hug and he was very emotional
emotional from there like mag he said, it just it just went crazy.
I mean they were all sitting Ilooked like her, walk like her.
You know, they were all makingfun of me. So it was good.
It was awesome. It's like I'dalways been there, so I was
wonderful. That is just so beautifuland I am I love that. I
(25:49):
know. The first time that mymother met her birth daughter, oh,
her daughter was like just as hewas a you know, are emotional.
And my father only found out abouttwenty four hours in advance, and it
was my mom. She was sheonly she lived like another three months.
(26:12):
But it was one of those thingsthat the story had to move forward,
we had to make this happen andmy father was just as gracious as your
dad, which was just beautiful becauseit you know, he was like my
(26:32):
mother was always afraid of telling himbecause and this is where for us,
the big secret was that, youknow, she never told him, so
she carted the stuff around all thetime, whereas you know, Peg didn't
do that. She actually stood inher truth and knew she could lose the
man of her dreams. But shestayed true to herself and true to God
(26:52):
and true to who she needed,you know who she was, and she
she did that, whereas my mother'sstayed true to herself. But her truth
was that everybody leaves me, they'llbe pulled away from me. He'll leave
me. And that was the lastthing that man would ever do with that.
(27:14):
That sorry, that innerals are there, Maggie. When you found out
your sister's name Mary, but wasn'tMary. That wasn't her name through childhood,
what were your thoughts around that?I thought it was hysterical. I
thought, you can't make this up. There's five names in Ireland that everybody
(27:37):
uses and that's it, and Ijust thought it was crazy because the reality
of it, though, Maureen,is that her name was Maggie and her
husband's name is Tom, and shewas a teacher. And I'm like,
and that's the first thing my momtells me on the phone, because after
she got off the phone with mysister, I called old her. I
(28:00):
said, how to go, howto go? And she my mom was
kind of not really digesting everything,but that's what she said. She's like,
well, her name is Maggie,her husband's name is Tom, and
she's a teacher. And I'm waslike, Mom, are you kidding me
right now? And she's like,well, I go Tom, Maggie and
a teacher. And she's like,oh my god. She starts screaming,
(28:22):
Maga, did you understand that?Like it was? You just can't make
it up. It's a bad movie. It's a bad movie. It's an
irony movie. Yes it is,you know, but it was you know,
it's it's funny, but it makessense. And my sister's just so
gracious that my mom did ask her, like, is it okay if we
call you Mary like that? That'swhat I named you. And we already
(28:42):
have a Maggie, we already havea Margaret like and just make and you
know, it just makes things easierThat's basically what it was. You know,
there was no real sentiment to it. It was just like, it
makes things easier if we can callyou Mary, if that's okay. It's
business business, right, So thisis so to be honest with you,
(29:03):
there has been no jealousy or anythingI've been. I told you that was
going to happen, no worries,just keep talking. My husband is cringing,
by the way, my husband iscringing that this is happening. Something
tells me he's dealt with things likethis before a little bit, a little
bit. But now it's public,Maureen, So now everybody knows. But
(29:27):
you know, here exactly, there'sjust where there hasn't been any jealousy.
And it's just not my nature too. I've always just been very grateful and
again I stemming from my parents.There's no need to be jealous of anything.
You'd be grateful for what you haveand you'd be happy for others.
(29:48):
And what a gift. I mean, one, I have a sister,
and two she filled my mother's heartlike she literally made my mother his heart
whole. And she's beyond amazing,my sister, beyond And when people say
that we're alike and we are.It's the biggest compliment to me because you
(30:11):
could just watch her and she justshe's amazing. She's amazing, and there's
nothing but beauty coming out of her. And she's just like our mom.
She's just like our mom. Solike you can't deny any of them,
and that we were meant to betogether and that our journeys were supposed to
(30:33):
be this way, because I wouldsay to my mom because as you know
through the book, my mom didshare that story with me when I was
going through some twenty year old stuff, and my mom shared that story with
me to kind of put me inmy place in a positive way. As
you know, my mom sayings oflike, you know, if everybody put
their problems in a pile, you'dgrab yours and run. And when I
(30:57):
was going through my stuff, sheshared that with me, and it kind
of put me in my place like, Okay, now I gotta Now I'm
going to take care of my mom, like my stuff is here, and
she's helping me to heal by sharingthat. And and then we just had
that twenty year relationship of talking aboutmy sister. Do you want to find
(31:18):
your mom? What do we do? And how do you feel? And
and it was I'm sure it wasa great outlet for her to have between
us, just yet another bond becauseshe was literally my best friend, my
best best best friend in the world, and we were able to share those
good and bad and hard times.And the story just kind of reaffirms everything
(31:40):
that I that she shared with meover that time frame of opening up to
me. So there's no room foranything but joy and gratitude. There's just
no room for it. And andthat's that's my little love fest for my
sister. And did we up?Did you want? Did you ever ask
(32:01):
your mom for a sister? Didyou? I mean, probably, you
know, probably I was just likesuch a tomboy because I was the youngest
and my three brothers and I justwanted to do everything that they did and
wanted to be everywhere that they were. And I was such a pain in
the But I always say to them, I don't know how they love me
as much as they do because Iwas a nightmare as I just was relentless,
(32:24):
relentless, relentless. But of courseI would say, you know,
like why am I the only girl? Or you know what I mean,
just kind of stuff like that,but not it wasn't prominent because again it's
like, this is our life becausemy mom had miscarriages too. My mom
had five miscarriages. Yeah, soI knew also like to be grateful that
(32:45):
I was even alive because it wasam I to be like, who the
hell am I? To be like, well, where's another baby? Because
my mom almost died having the otherbabies. So again, it was never
like I wish, but of courseyou wonder. Of course you always like
imagine and wonder, and then whenit happened and then I get her,
it's like are you crazy? Right? Well, and I feel bad time
(33:07):
I'm leaving out one more question fromMary. Mary, did you want a
sister growing up? Did you everthink about how you wanted a sister?
Absolutely? Absolutely, because I hadmy brother and there was there's a thirteen
year difference between me and my brotherone, you know, so then I
(33:30):
absolutely wanted a sister. So,you know, God helped the women that
were in my life that you know, like my friends and stuff, like
you're like through the me, Iwas a nerd. I was terrible going
right back at Margaret and I endup waiting the way it was well worth
it well worth it. This woman, her heart and her soul is with
(33:52):
everybody that knows her. She's unbelievable. When I first came in, I
have never heard this is my sister, even from my brothers. It just
didn't happen. The weekend I camein, they went by, you know,
they're scratching my head and they're kissingme and they're they're going, I
love you. That's my sister.She's from Chicago. You just see everyone
(34:13):
in the room. But you know, sister sisters, they're never happy,
you know. And Mom was ariot because she loved playing with people's minds.
After we stopped were established, andI'd come in and because we'd be
at breakfast, you know, someonecome up and Mom and goes, it's
my daughter, Maggie. Yes,she's from Chicago. All of them know
this Maggie. You know, I'mgoing, oh, no, she's gonna
(34:35):
stay. She's gonna say it allof a sudden, Yeah, she's all
legitimate. She'd say it at thebreakfast table and I would be like,
yes, it's so different. Imean, she would just freak them out
because they knew Maggie. They knewMaggie, and they go bust Meg,
and I go, it's the otherone. She was so proud and she
wanted to tell everybody, well it'syeah. She was just you know,
(34:57):
after which she went through her journey, saw you in Ireland where the Irish
are amazing and so heart and lovefilth. But if you you know,
in those days, you stepped outa line and forget it. The emotional
and verbal abuse was like so sheher she was using that power of her
(35:22):
voice and that was that was yourpride in the situation and correcting it.
She was correcting it with humor.So that's perfect, Maureen. That's a
great point. Like she was donewith the shame. Yeah, she was.
She was done with the shame thatshe had carried for so long,
(35:42):
and then knowing that what she didwas the right thing to do. And
like I said earlier, we wouldsay that to my mom, Like you
know, I would say, I'mlike, Mom, if you didn't do
what you did, as painful asit was, you wouldn't have come here,
you wouldn't have met Dad, andyou wouldn't have had us, and
like that was your destiny. Igo. Now, I'm not trying to
(36:05):
sound corny, but literally it waslike. God was like, I know
this is going to stink, buttrust it because you're going to be led
to the greatest man in the worldthat's going to love you, and then
you're going to have four more childrenthat will worship the ground you walk on
and and do whatever you need todo, and then leave this imprint on
(36:27):
the world that she has. Um, it's just it's just you know,
I know it sounds like it's soinflated, but it really it's not.
They were my parents were larger thanlife. It's the adustry. It really
is history. I use that allthe time as a visual because and it
doesn't even mean that it's like atapestry of rolling hills and beautiful trees and
(36:52):
sets and there. It's just colorsof how we move in and out of
life. And and some of thosethreads are there because that's what's meant to
be, that's our destiny. Andyou can change how the other colors work
around it, but it's what usTom. Yeah, no, just no,
Just to tie it in a word. So when we were writing the
(37:15):
story, you know, I originallystarted writing the story I was going to
do each chapter was going to beone chapter about Peg, one chapter about
Mary and just have them juxtaposed tomove throughout. And then after a couple
of chapters, Mary's life, unfortunatelywas pretty boring. You know, it's
right. There was nothing really excitingthat was going to counter you know,
so she had a normal childhood,she said, So said, okay,
(37:37):
that's not going to work. Sothen we told PEG's story and then and
the whole thing about stories, andthis is what this whole thing is about,
is you had Peg telling me herstory, and then when I interviewed
Mary, Mary told me her story. But then there were certain parts that
were not lining up and sinking upcorrectly. And this was coming out over
months and years when Mary and Pegwould have a drink at Shortway's barn and
(38:00):
they would get together and sit inthe back porch and they would share because
if you think about it, whenyou're growing up and you have all the
Christmas holidays and family gatherings, youshare stories and everybody corrects everybody, No,
it didn't happen that way. Itdidn't happen that way. Well,
Peg didn't have anybody to correct orto verify her version of the story for
fifty years, so she went intotrauma and shock and did whatever she had
(38:22):
to do to survive. As shetold herself, this narrative, Mary has
a different narrative from where she grewup. And then when I got the
actual documents, and that's where thehistorian I mean comes out. The documents
weren't lining up with either of theirstories. So he said, this truth
always has three sides, and sothat's when we consciously decided to tell all
(38:42):
three sides. Mary's version, PEG'sversion, and then where the documents were
saying. And that's what you know. The truth is somewhere in between all
of that, and that's how thestory, you know, takes you through
the second half of the book.Yeah, as I started with earlier,
the amount of research and all ofthose paper I was thinking, how did
you find this stuff? I knowhow that happens, and you have to
(39:05):
read the book, but it's reallyphenomenal. Not everybody gets that opportunity to
have that much information show up.Now. We were very lucky, and
in fact it was I remember itwas August and I was struggling with like
this, something's missing, you know, and then the file pops up and
I have all these documents and Iremember laying them all out on the kitchen
table and going over and over andthen sharing with my wife. I'm like,
(39:29):
something's not right here, something's thatI'm writing. I had to write
it all down chronologically. Away asecond, I go, oh, we
got a whole other version of truthhere, and that's what comes out,
you know. Yeah, it's reallyfabulous. What would you recommend for anybody
who wants to write their memoir?Because I know you started this, as
you said, as a family project. This is something for guys to pass
(39:51):
down through the years so that there'sa line through history showing what happened.
You know, how how'd you allend up here with? Yeah? But
as you say, this just turnedinto something that actually is very poignant and
timely in not only how in Irelandobviously, but throughout the world and certainly
(40:15):
in the United States, Like alot of this is all bubbling up,
a lot of people are searching fortheir families. But would how do you
begin? Yeah? I mean you'vegot to begin with just the truth as
you know it, and you haveto start writing it down for what you
know, and then you start lookingfor how do you branch off? You
(40:36):
know, who could I talk toso then I started talking to aunts and
uncles and then I actually we stillstay in touch with some of our my
wife's cousins in England, and theywere telling me other stories. And then
you just keep on putting the storiestogether, and then you try to bounce
the stories off of different people toget their versions of that, and you
just keep on writing, writing,writing, and it's a it's a long
process. You know, I hada full time job and of course a
(40:59):
family and every thing, and youknow, it took five years to put
this whole thing together. It wasmore of a labor of love. But
you know, you have to justkeep on asking the questions, keep on
going back to the questions and justtrying to get to the hard truth,
and sometimes you run into a lotof dead ends and then you just got
to leave it. Like the onepart that you know, I regret.
I wish I had mixed version ofthe story. But he passed before we
(41:21):
started writing this, so I knewsome things that he had told me privately
and other times that I was ableto weave some of that stuff in,
but he never got, you know, the whole story from him and his
perspective, which you know is apiece that's missing, but you do the
best you can. So that wouldbe the whole thing is, you know,
try and do as much research onthe topic and then try to put
(41:42):
all the family stuff together, andthen you got to follow the timeline,
so you know. So then Istarted doing that research, and I started
finding out about all the other babies, the mother you know, daughter commission,
the uh, the the Magdalen laundriieswhich I didn't know about, you
know, all these other avenues thatwomen and how to go through. So
it's it's really sad time of Irishhistory, but you do have these beautiful
(42:07):
stories that do emerge from it.And that's why we told the story to
give people hope. You know,not every story definitely has a dead end,
but it hopefully gives some people somehope that they can find their their
family story. Because everybody's got them. Everybody has them, and everybody's got
skeletons in the closet. So it'sa matter of just you know, you
know, binding them out and tryingto put them all together and open that
closet that's right clear out. It'strue, it's so important to really do
(42:32):
the work because when we do thework certainly for if we don't want to
look at our own skeletons, maybelooking at our parents or grandparents, starting
to try to just get some clarityaround that, because it will end up
clearing our skeletons. Also, thereare reasons we make choices. For myself,
the reason why I made a choicewhen I got pregnant prior to marriage,
(42:54):
who is different from the choice mymother made, And if I had
known maybe her choice, maybe I'mto have done that. But I agree
with you, and I think that'swhat history is all about. If you
learn from others, whether it betheir triumphs, their mistakes, their their
stories. I think that empowers,you know, the future generations. It
(43:14):
empowers our children to share the storiesand share the truth. The prior generations
kept everything secret. You keep themin the closet and you don't want to,
you know, the shame or whatever. But I think that does more
harm because it doesn't teach the nextgeneration of what they can do and how
they learn grow from that. AndI think this openness that we have now
with the Internet, social media,with books, people telling your podcast is
(43:37):
wonderful. With all these people sharingthese stories is a way to get it
out, and I think it justarms people for the future and strengthens them.
Thank you. That's that's a profoundstatement on many levels, not only
for this story, but for allstories that we have, and how getting
back to basics, getting back toyou know, to learning from our elders,
(44:00):
even if they're not here, isso very important. So as we
start to wrap up, what wasyour favorite part, and I'm gonna start
with whomever wants to, I won'tdo that to you. Your favorite part
of this, favorite moment in thisjourney, the big moment. What was
(44:22):
that big moment? I think Ihave an idea what it was, but
you know, I'll just start thefavorite moment I guess was the well we
went to Shoreway's barn and we hadwe had a podcast and we had a
film crew and it hit the newspapersand there was a line out the door
in a snowy weather and people werecoming in march. We had bagpipers and
(44:45):
everything. We got to tell thestory. There were pints of guinness flowing
and it was just a culmination ofeverything. And it was a celebration of
Mick and PEG's lives, who wasa celebration of Mary and Maggie and everybody
coming together. The story is outthere. There's no more shame, there's
anything like that. And to seeso much love and support and we were
(45:06):
just joking, like since one doesa sports bar have a book signing and
it has his biggest crowd ever.But it just shows you that these stories
really tug at the heartstrings of somany people, and these stories resonate with
so many people. That was likea really proud, great moment because it
really is a celebration. And Ithink we have to celebrate these family stories
and not hide them away. AndI think we have to learn from them
(45:29):
and grow and just share the lovewhile you have this short amount of time
on earth. So that is wonderful. Well, well that's why I love
him exactly. That's why I lovehim. And you know, I agree
with my husband because to be honest, you know, like when he talks
about and not to be negative inany way, Like I don't know if
(45:51):
my dad would have shared this story. I don't. I don't think he
would have. I don't just likemy mom kind of waited for him to
pass, like I said, respectingthat time frame. You know, it's
easier, it is better for us, Like in our children are more accepting
of it, because my mom,when this came out, she was petrified
that we would all think of herdifferently. She was petrified that the grandchildren
(46:15):
would think she's what everybody called herin Ireland. So we have to respect
that process. But truly we haveto embrace our right and wrong decisions and
because they are making us who weare, and they do put us on
(46:36):
the path that we may not seethe joys or the benefits of it till
later on in life. But wehave to forgive ourselves one hundred percent as
we move and learn and teach andand and try to be better. And
that's what this book is. Becauseit is hard for me. It was
hard for me to work on thisbook. It was hard for me to
(46:57):
read it. My husband was onit and I did say to him,
I go, I know this isyour book, but it's about my mother.
And I felt very, very veryprotective of her because I knew how
hard it was for her. Butat the same time, the the reception
and everyone's love for it has beenoverwhelming, and that day in short ways,
was beyond a tribute to my parentsand obviously my husband for putting this
(47:21):
out there, and I'm so sograteful for everything that he does. But
that prideful moment was just overwhelmed.That's all I kept saying, is like,
what is happening? Oh my god. Every time I'm talking this goes
out. I think it's my mothertalking to us too. Yeah, but
(47:42):
it's that that moment at short Waysand Flavio Romeo, who put us on
the podcast and initiated that whole thing, initiated the book signing um, you
know, and then having over fivehundred people come to just embrace this story
again, It's it's overwhelming. It'soverwhelming and humbling every time. And it's
(48:05):
this and it is part of yourum giving back to the world by taking
your mother's story and being of servicebecause that's what we're here for us to
be of service. So this isyour service, your mits for whatever you
want to call it. Mary.My favorite part was when I turned the
(48:29):
corner. If I can get thisout, When I turned the corner,
it sorr, you know, Ias a mob, as a mom,
I thought, oh my gosh,she hasn't seen me at fifty years,
and I was like, what wouldI feel? My pocket was eighteen months,
and I thought giving him away forbetter, I said, I don't
(48:51):
know what I would have done.And they'll look her face and I just
watched her face and it was ohmy god, and not not eagles centric
way, it was like, ohmy god, she's here, you know.
And I was like, it wasunbelievable, and then basically selfish a
little bit. But to see herrelaxed into her just burden just left from
(49:14):
her shoulder was unbelievable. And I'llalways remember. And then the twenty two
people that were standing there that actuallycame out, it was it was overwhelming.
And my brother Patrick holding the purse, that was great. But um,
that was my moment. And ofcourse short ways was unbelievable. And
(49:36):
the people that my family knows outhere, they are family, and they've
got a thousands or forty thousand peoplethat are family to them. But when
I saw her, uh, thatwas it. That was it. That
was the moment I knew it was. I knew it was going to be
okay for her and so and andthe acceptance, like you said, Mags,
(49:58):
like the acceptance of all of ourkids. It's too like there was
never never a skip of like wellwho is that. It was like,
oh, that's Jaran Mary. They'relike oh okay, Like it was literally
that progressive, that smooth. Likemy kids being the younger ones, they
don't remember life without her, theydon't know life without her when I grew
(50:20):
up with her kids. Yeah,so and all of them. But just
the automatic acceptance and me being inmy niece's wedding, her daughter's wedding,
and my mom being walking down theaisle of her children's wedding like it's it's
it's a miracle. It's a miracle. Here my kids, I got more
(50:43):
cousins. It just was crazy.It's started there. It's the ping they
were, the ping ping, thepebble in the water. Yeah, that
you are the ripple, and theripple is large and is meant to help
so many and so many women whoare sitting there even with the decision to
(51:08):
shall I even have this baby ornot because of the judgment and the shame
and the celebration of not having it, because that's what's celebrated in society.
Now that's every body's own path decision. But um, you know, in
(51:32):
honoring your mother, Um, youryou know, your your mother and your
your mother in law, my motherfor um for stepping in it and and
and standing strong and following their path. Um because now as I look at
my my kids have four other cousins, because my kids had no other no
(51:55):
cousins, and they have they have. My sister has four kids. I
have four kids. You know,it's it's a it's an awesome, awesome
thing. And I just will throwin that my Maggie Win. My kids
found out. Um. You knowwhen I went in and I trying to
tell my kids, and I toldmy eldest, who had just started college,
(52:20):
UM, I said I have totell you. I just and I
started crying. I said, Idon't know who to talk to because nobody's
home right now, and I needto tell you that Grandma had Grandma had
of a baby out of wedlock,and actually a right prior to that.
He's glued in front of the Yankeegame and this and and and there was
like probably basis load or whatever,and I'm like, and he's looking back
at me, he's looking at theTV. Looking back. I mean he
(52:42):
goes, oh, he goes,shuts the TV off. That never would
happen, but I guess I reallyhad that energy. Coming. He sits
down, he goes, what's up, Mom? I go, you canna
agree? You your grandmother had hada baby out of wedlock. And then
he goes, really, oh,Grandma's so cool. Eactly, And that
(53:05):
was the energy I took for therest of the time. Then ran with
it and ran with it because ourchildren are not as judgmental. Absolutely no,
absolutely, just so beautiful and youguys are so beautiful. And I
just love this conversation. I couldtalk for another three hours me to think
about this. It's like really abig well, do a sequel. We'll
(53:29):
do a sequel. We'll do asequel. I'll bring Ethna in because that'll
with this. So where can wherecan everybody find your book? Where can
do you have a website? Wehave a website I called her Mary dot
com no spaces, and then onAmazon you can find I called her Mary.
A memoir is on Amazon as well, fabulous and that can be purchased
(53:52):
in overseas in other counts everywhere.Yeah, we have. We have sales
in six different countries from Australia tothe United Kingdom, England, Canada and
Europe. So it's it's doing prettywell. It's a little over a year
now that's been out there. We'rejust so happy that so many people are
enjoying this book and sharing their storieswith us after they read the book.
(54:15):
It's empowering, it's very empowering,and it's very moving. And again,
thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you for this opportunity much.
Oh you're so welcome, and soto our listeners, this is how
I kind of end. The endour show is just if everybody could just
take a moment, close your eyesand take a deep breath in and hold
(54:38):
it and let it go and knowthat you're not alone here on the Family
Balancing Act.
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