February 5, 2025 • 52 mins
Dr. Shawn Jones is an Assistant Professor of Counseling Psychology at Virginia Commonwealth University and a trained Child and Family Cilinical Psychologist.During this episode Dr Jones is addressing four issues:
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- the impact of the pandemic on our mental health and actions we can take to heal
- the exacerbation of racism and race related stress on mental health and our well-being
- healthy patterns of interactions between parent and children, particularly to children exhibitting stress after experiencing or witnessing acts of racism
- recommended healthy routines for adults that would preserve strong mental health
- Anti-Racism: The Conversation Continues
- Resilience: American Psychological Association
- Parenting: Modern Families
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oftentimes level when we feel, we're taught that there are
certain emotions that they're okay to feel and certain emotions
that are less okay to feel. And that is not
you know, as you said healthy, that is that is
not a pathway to help. And so one of the
(00:23):
first things that I want to encourage adults, and this
actually applies to youth as will, but to adults, is
that we again, we're in the midst of a number
of different tragic moments right now in our in our history,
in the history of this nation, of this of this
(00:43):
broader global context. And so if you feel angry, if.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You feel sad, if you feel.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Destrived, if you feel hopeless, helpless, any of those emotions,
all of those things are valid. And so it is
it's important in order to heal we have. We can't
heal what we don't acknowledge, right, and so it's important
to first and foremost recognize and hold space to say, Hey,
you know, I'm angry about this, and that's okay. I'm
(01:15):
really scared because I don't know what's going to happen
outside my door, or I don't know what's gonna happen
even when this country or another country when it opens
back up. I don't know what the new normal is
going to look like. I don't know what I'm scared
about those things. It's important to be able to really
speak truthfully about how we're feeling about things.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hello, and welcome to the Journey, your radio show hosted
by Nevil d Angelou, author of a sound Bite, Life
and Flight of the Fused Monkeys, a PRG Emerging Technologies
Forum keynote speaker and founder of RIO Sports. I am
Joseph Ellison.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
My guest is Doctor Sean Jones, as System Professor Counseling
Psychology at Virginia Commonwealth University. Dr Jones's long list of
publications and awards highlight expertise in Black youth and family
psychosocial well being, racism related stress and coping processes, racial
(02:20):
ethnic protective factors, and couple's therapy. It is hardly lost
in any of us the magnitude and weight of the
traumas with which our globe is currently inflicted. A pandemic
with all of its uncertainties, its impact on health and
(02:40):
well being, on work and economy, on relationships and lifestyle,
The brutality of vandemic racism, and economic inequities, the crazed
callousness of infectious hatred. These all call for more than reflection,
(03:06):
for more than spittoons to capture her old emotions. I'm
advised that they require deep work, and there is a
need for healing. It is towards this latter that I
have invited doctor Sean Jones, and I will place before
him four requests. I must say he is a brave fellow.
(03:34):
We need folks like him.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Along the journey. We stop at intriguing places and meet
fascinating people with novel solutions to some of life's tricky questions,
and we play a few games in track the remarkable
characters of three classic books, A SoundBite, Life, Flat of
the Fused Monk and Illosad A Time to Begin Again,
all of which can be found on Amazon and Barnes
(04:05):
and Op.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
In a moment, we will meet doctor Sean Jones. I
will request of him to address one the impact of
the Pandemonium on our mental health, along with some guidance.
Two the exacerbation of racism and related stress on our
well being. Three patterns of healthy interactions between parents and
(04:35):
children in times like these, And four healthy routines to
boost our mental strength. Well, hello, doctor Jones, I'm glad
(04:59):
to have you on our show. How are you today?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I am doing so very well and Neville, thank you
so much for having me. I'm excited to be able
to have the opportunity to talk today.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, your expertise is something that we value generally and
particularly even now. Can you tell us a little bit
about yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Absolutely? Absolutely so. I am currently an assistant professor of
Counseling psychology at Virginia Kamawath University that's located in Richmond,
Virginia and the United States. I am trained as a
child and family clinical psychologist, and I also have a
(05:42):
background in public health. So that's a little bit about
me in terms of my research. And then if you
have any other follow ups, sleep feel free to ask.
But my research really focuses on looking at the intersection
between racism related stress and mental health and hoping for
(06:02):
black youth and families.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So you are the perfect person for our show today.
We're so glad that you're here. But I'm going to start.
I have four questions for you, and I'm going to start,
of course, with the pandemic. If you don't mind, you know,
it's put our whole globe on the stress, and many
(06:28):
of us, if we are not experiencing it, we are
fearful that it's going to cause have a great impact
on our mental health. So can you give us a
solid understanding of what is mental health and then talk
to us about the impact of the current climate on
(06:50):
our mental health?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sure? Absolutely, So, first of all, you know, that's a
really great question, And before I answer, I just want
to take a moment to send my best to all
of those who have experience they're currently experiencing, are getting over,
getting through, or related to someone who is experienced this
(07:14):
current global pandemic related to COVID nineteen. Certainly, you know
we have learned over these past couple of months about
the impact that that has on one physical health and
one respiratory system. But we also know a couple of
things well. So first of all, we know that there's
(07:34):
a connection between physical illness and mental health. And by
mental health, we're talking about things like our emotional health,
how what kind of emotions we feel? Are we feeling sad?
Are we feeling anxious? Right? We can think about our
cognitive health, so things like our thought life, are we
having constant worries. Are we constantly thinking about whether or
(08:00):
not we're going to catch or get this horrible disease, right,
as well as our behavioral health, right, so the ways
in which we act and the things that we do
or don't do. And so we know that the illness
itself can you know, make folks feel distraught, feel sad.
(08:21):
We know that there can be grief, you know, associated
with those who may have had someone pass away from
the disease. And we also know that the quarantine itself
and these kind of stay at home restrictions that have
been placed throughout the United States and throughout the world frankly,
(08:43):
also become a fertile ground for us to really have
to wrestle with things like being isolated, right, being constantly
exposed to troubling information that can make us anxious. Right.
And so for those of us who may already have
an underlying predisposition to worry, or we previously have battled
(09:08):
being said or being depressed, this time can also be
particularly challenging if we're not able to engage with our
like typical coping skills that we might use if we
were able to go outside and be around everyone, we
wanted to. So there are multiple ways in which mental
health and kind of COVID nineteen really intersects.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Now, do you have any any suggestions as how we
can I know that, for example, the US right now,
things I don't know if it's easing or you know,
whether we've peaked or we've just flattened the curve. But
what can people be doing? Would you say to ease
(09:51):
that the pain?
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely, so, you know, I think that there are number
of things that folks can do. So I think one
of the things noble that happens, this is a stressful time,
and so I think one of the first things that's
important to do is to acknowledge that we you know,
oftentimes the word unprecedented global pandemic. Sometimes it's hard to
(10:20):
really put that into words, but it's important that we
continue to understand that for many of us, right the
least comfortable thing many health experts day on a national
stage was the Spanish you know, influenza in the early
you know, nineteen hundred. So for most people living this
(10:41):
is an unprecedented time. It is a stressful time. So
acknowledging that it is stressful, we can begin to think about, well,
what do I typically do. What are the my typical
go tos, my typical resources for coping when I'm stressed, Right,
So I'll use a personal example for me, right, something
(11:04):
that I really enjoyed to do to help me cope.
I enjoy engaging in some sort of physical activity, some
sort of exercise right there. You know, there are a
lot of great benefits between kind of brain body connection,
which I'm sure you know about in terms of being
able to both kind of release certain stress hormones in
(11:26):
the context of working out, you know, feeling better, right,
kind of having endorphins that that kick up when we're
able to engage in that way. And so yes, we
you know, we previously may have not been able to
go to certain gems, but there are are there still
ways that we could be physically active or fit. And
(11:49):
as the curve flattens and some of these restrictions lift,
obviously will have to do those things safely and following
those guidelines, but not abandoned those hoping skills that we
know tend to help us feel better. Right, So, eating healthy,
working out, socially connecting with folks. Right, I've had I
(12:11):
don't know how many zoom catchups or hangouts or phone calls.
Even if I can't physically hang out with my family
and friends, I know it's important for me to still
have that social connection so I don't feel isolated, right
And so making sure thinking about we might have to
use a little bit of creativity, but making sure that
we continue to access our tool get of coping resources
(12:34):
is something I think would be a big help for
us now and as we hopefully ease into kind of
returning to and I guess the new normal.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Really, it will be a new normal. Okay, we will
be right back with Dr Jones with a question about racism.
We'll be right back. You are on the Journey. The
(13:16):
Journey's platform is the Journey dot Rio sports dot com.
The Journey is one word, and Ryo Sports is spelled
r y O s p O r t s dot
com The Journey dot Rio sports dot com. There you
will find resources readiably available free to you. You're welcome
(13:37):
to check out our shows and select the segment Mental
and Emotional well Being The Journey dot Rio sports dot com.
I am back with doctor Sean Joe. Doctor Racism is
(14:02):
an open wound in the US, of course, and of
course not only in the US. It's We're not the
only nation that is inflicted by this. Talk to us
please about the exacerbation of racism and race related stress
and mental health and our well being.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So, you know, you know, I think
I was watching the news program the other evening and
I was struck by.
Speaker 7 (14:36):
One of the the headlines that read on the screen,
which is which stated that the United States is facing
two great pandemics COVID nineteen and racism.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
And seeing that, I thought, wow, that is so so
poignant and so very very real because in in the
midst of what we talked about during you know, our
first segment together, all of these we're dealing with this
unprecedented and unknown virus pandemic, UH, this stabilitating disease, and unfortunately,
(15:18):
in the United States and this country, we are also
dealing with a virus in a disease that we are
all too familiar with but have not been able in
four hundred years plus to eradicate. And that is racism
in its many forms. And so, you know, as a
scholar who studies you know, racism, racial discrimination, race based
(15:44):
traumatic stress, we know that those experiences run rough shot.
They completely have the propensity to debilitate, to exhaust our resources.
Talks before about stress and coping, right, So if we
think about racism as this chronic, chronic stressor that operates
(16:09):
on so many levels, it taxes in any individual's opportunity
or ability to cope, right, And so you know, suddenly
the jog is not enough, The healthy meal might not
be enough, the laughter with friends might not be enough.
Their prayer may not be enough. Right, All of these
things are very important. But if we're unundated constantly with
(16:34):
images and experiences and microaggressions and slights and racial epipets, right,
and seeing individuals' lives taken away on camera, right, all
of these things, that's at our our feelings of being hopeful. Right,
(16:55):
So we talk about hopelessness that emerges, hopelessness that emerge,
We talk about righteous anger that emerges. A lot of
the emotional health that I talked about initially comes to
minds when we're thinking about the ways in which racism
can impact our mental health. So it can impact us internally, right,
(17:18):
in terms of how we feel about ourselves. It can
cause us to manifest that stress in an external way, right,
So it may lead us to throw a brick through
a window or yell at our neighbor or coworker for
calling us a name, or for saying that we found
a certain way right, and we also you didn't ask
(17:41):
me about this, But we also know that that racism
gets into the skin, as some scholars I talked about,
it gets into our bodies and also is associated with
a number of negative physical health ailments. So it's kind
of this three sixty double edged sworders work to speak
when we're talking about racism.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, well, all right, now you put a number of
things in perspective for me when you put it. You
you mentioned this very pround impact on the mind and
the body. I never had looked at it that way.
Obviously experience all the stuff that you're talking about. Uh
(18:24):
do you I know this is not a fair question,
but I'll put it to you anyway. What can we do?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Oh my gosh, So I am mindful and the the
that moment of what I just did, that sign that
exhalation is not actually lost on me in this moment level.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Because we have many individuals in the fifty states that
represent the United States of America and across the world
who are currently as the recording of this right in
the throes of protests, because many of them witness, they
heard about, or saw with their own eyes that for
(19:11):
nearly nine minutes, the ability to do what I just did,
to take a breath, was literally taken away from a
black man by the name of George Floyd. So when
the first thing that comes to mind, besides wow, what
a by pass is to breathe, To breathe is an
(19:34):
active resistance. It is a big thing that we can do, right,
is to first remember, for those of us who are
directly directly in our due to the color of our skin,
our ethnicity, directly dealing with this racism, we have to
remember to breathe. Right, That's the one that's one thing
(19:58):
that first comes to mind. Right, the second thing that
comes to mind, Honestly, since you ask a big question,
I'm going to try to give you a big answer
and not be too hard on year return. But you know,
the question of what do we do? My response to
that is who are the we as we're referring to?
(20:21):
Because the depending on depending on you know, what we
know and what we see. Unfortunately, throughout the writing of
this country's history is that part of part of the
system of racism comes from you know, we're talking about we,
(20:41):
but a lot, a lot of what we're seeing comes
from this, this outering, this us versus them, this lack
of seeing a common humanity. And so when I think
about what we can do, it behooves those of us who,
either through our own direct and I don't mean this
in a religious way, but through our own direct sin
(21:04):
or through the sins of our forefathers, have not consistently
seen everyone in this country as human. We have to
do the work to admit that we have played a
part in that. We have to do the work to
change that narrative of seeing other people as less thin,
(21:25):
as inferior, as not human. Right again, calling back to
the incident with brother Floyd in Minneapolis. Only to me, right,
the only way that I can justify what I saw
with my eyes because I did watch it, is wow.
This individual these individuals must not have viewed this person
(21:49):
as a fool person, because if you did view that
person in that way, then you would not snuff out
their life. Right. And so that's a big thing. We
have to be able to recognize and see the humanity
in each person. And when we are doing that, we
(22:11):
also have to be careful that we don't erase the
individual things that make folks special in that humanity, right,
And so what am I speaking to there? I'm speaking
to Sometimes there is a desire to want to see
kumbaya and have a what is referred to as a
color blind ideology, a notion that we are all just
(22:34):
the same. And the reality again that bears out in
the history of this world and specifically in the United States,
is that it is very clear that we are not
We are all human, but we are not all the same. Right,
So we want equity, We want equality, but the idea
that we don't see race or don't see color also
(22:58):
is problematic. So we have to open up our eyes
to those differences and learn to respect those differences. And
for the folks under the sound of my voice, I
am an African American psychologist, so the folks under the
sound of my voices share that identity and other communities
of color. We have to continue to resist in all
(23:23):
the ways and also to make sure that we are
prioritizing both our mental, mental and physical well being. Right,
So we have to continue to reach for and engage
across our coping mechanisms. We have to continue to take
care of our physical bodies. When we know that are
(23:48):
the value of our bodies is sometimes less than our peer,
it seems right we have to continue to do that
work as well. So it's a big question because the
answer to that question depends on who is defined as
we right. Yes, so hopefully that was at least a
partially satisfactory answer.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
No, that's more satisfactory. I recognize, of course, that this
is a very big topic that we are all in
the middle of, and there's no way in a few
minutes we could have But I appreciate at least that
you're putting you were able to impactfully state the issue
as it is, as we are seeking to resolution. I
(24:32):
know not everyone wants a resolution to it, but certainly
I want to. I know people, let me let me
do one more follow up question, if you don't mind
on this very thing. We all know that awareness is
an issue. I'm just hesitating myself to make sure that
(24:55):
so communication is absolutely necessary. I know that we that
that is a part of in my mind, a very
small part, necessary, essential part of it. But how much
in danger are we of just talking, just talking and
(25:17):
leaving it there.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, yeah, that's that's a really really good that's a
really really good question. And I'm reminded, and I'm going
to paraphrase a bit, but I'm reminded of a quote
from Malcolm X. And I know that Malcolm X was
a for many folks, perhaps a controversial figure, but there
(25:42):
is a quote associated with Malcolm X wherein he talks
about this notion that if you stick a knife in
my back right six inches and you only pull it
out three that's not progress. And so when I think
about the notion of talking right and stopping there, that
(26:05):
is the image that often comes to my mind, because
it is not it is not ultimately sufficient right. And
so I appreciate you asking this follow up question because
unless I be misconstrewd, I do think that it's important
for us, or for those of us who have certain privileges,
(26:26):
are afforded certain privilege benefit from a system of oppression
perhaps that disportionately affects marginized communities, people of color, that
we that we recognize that privilege, but then what do
(26:46):
we do with that? And so that's why in our
current hour, you are seeing or hopefully seeing, and if
you haven't, I invite you to search and look up
this notion of anti racism, right. It is because anti
racism says it is not enough to say nakoopa, It
is not enough to say, oh, my goodness, this is
(27:09):
so terrible. But the next step to true reconciliation and
healing for a broken and thick nation, when we get
back to that notion of these two viruses, is we
also have to take the proper anti racist action to repair.
And this is why Neville, this is so beautiful with
(27:31):
a parallel right now in the year twenty twenty of
COVID nineteen, because doctor Anthony Frausci and the other folks
who talk to us about COVID nineteen, they are not
just getting us to acknowledge that there is this virus
that attacks the respiratory system. But no, after we understand
that this thing exists, then we put on our masks,
(27:55):
we wash our hands, we social distance, we do the
things that we must do you to eradicate to Platt
and to eliminate ultimately the curve. And so if it
is good enough for COVID nineteen, it is more than
good enough for racism.
Speaker 8 (28:12):
I am so glad, and I'm so glad you recognize
that parallel yep. Absolutely. All I'll say to that is
a man. I will be right back with doctor Shawn Jones.
(28:34):
You are on the journey. My guest is doctor Sean Jones.
He is the second year Assistant Professor in the Counseling
Program in the Psychology Department at Virginia Commonwealth University. He
also holds a Master of Health Science in Mental Health
(28:55):
from John Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health and
a Bachelor of Science and Psychology from Duke University. Doctor
Jones endeavors impact the psychosocial well being of Black youth
and their families by a exploring mechanisms on the girding
(29:18):
culturally relevant, protective and promoter factors. B Translating basic research
into interventions that harness the unique strengths of the Black experience,
and c disseminating this research to be consumed, critique, and
(29:40):
enhanced by the communities the work intends to serve.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Clinically. He is committed to the provision of culturally informed child,
couple and family therapy and assessment, and he is passionate
about eliminating racial health dispat particularly those related to mental
health services, which he sees is obtainable through stigma reduction
(30:12):
and mental health literacy interventions. To that end, he with
his colleague doctor Rianna Anderson, has created a video series
and podcast entitled Our Mental Health Minute. In his kindness
(30:32):
and with that expretness, Dr Jones is on the journey,
attending to mental health and healing in a time such
as this. You're on the journey. The journey's platform is
the Journey dot ryosports dot com. You will find information
(30:53):
there on anti racism and actions you can take to
engage in working through such issues. On the Journey, the
conversation continues. Click on the conversation continues, and you will
find pastors having an uncomfortable conversation dealing with these issues.
(31:18):
You will find doctor Robin DeAngelo explaining in clear detail
the issue of privilege in racism. You will find brilliant
youths showing their resolve and light of their experiences. You
will find spiritual leaders from around the world grappling together
(31:41):
with the issue straight on, an honest, and much more.
Visit the Conversation continues on the Journey dot Rio sports
dot com. I'm back with doctor Sean Jones. Uh, Doctor,
(32:15):
I want to go to the kids. Now, what would
be a pattern of healthy interactions between a parent and
a child if that child is showing extreme stress or
just stress period after experiencing or witnessing acts of racism.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, no, well sorry, I appreciate that question as well.
And so this is definitely something that is near and
dear to my heart as someone who sees myself as
a child and family psychologist. And I think about this
often because it is one of the very sad reality
(32:56):
and harsh realities of this thing around racism. Right, And so.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It is not enough that we have to or that
individuals have to experience or be exposed to racism as adults.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
But now we have to decide how do we talk
to children, or how do we shield children, or can
we even shield children from the nefariousness of racism that
they might experience, How do we help to to protect
them in that incidence? And so I am someone who
(33:38):
is an intermediate social media user, and this morning, as
I was getting ready for my day, I thought about
a poem by Langston Hughes which is titled mother to Son,
And that particular poem comes a common referen that I
(34:00):
alday's heard a lot growing up. This idea that you
know it's a mother's say. Sun life for me ain't
been no crystal stare. There's been a lot of harshness
and nails and places where the rug is pulled up.
And I keep climbing, and I keep running, and I
keep reaching. But sometimes it's dark and sometimes it's light.
(34:22):
And that poem to me, which I share today, was
really emblematic of part of the work that we are
asking parents to do for children is that how do
we explain to children that, hey, because of something you
(34:43):
can't control the color of your skin, the kink in
your hair, there may be folks who look at you
as less than you may get called names. You may
have people think that the color of your skin is
actually mud, and then you just take a shower, which
sometimes gets when they're first coming across understanding skin tone differences,
(35:07):
might say innocently enough, right, But how do we begin
to help our children understand right and protect them in
advance that they may experience these things? And So, for me,
what a healthy interaction or a healthy exchange looks like
is it looks like parents using developmentally appropriate language to
(35:35):
talk to their children about the realities of what's going on.
One of my best friends lives in Chicago, and they
walked past some of the protests, and I was so
proud to hear how that exchange went, because you know,
it wasn't a discussion of trying to explain fully all
(35:58):
of the tenants of certain movements or certain groups that
were out there, but it said, hey, there are folks
who are upset because you know, something bad happened to
people that wasn't right, and it happened to people because
of the color of their skin, and so these folks
are really passionate or they really want to make sure
that the next time the right things are done right.
(36:20):
That is, it maybe sounds simple to us, but can
be so powerful to equipping children with starting to have
an appreciation and understanding for the things that are going
on around them. And the reason why that's so vital.
And then I'll take a break to see if there's
a follow up to this that you might have. Is
(36:41):
that we know, right, we know that at early ages
children began to recognize and look more at faces that
look different, knowing meaning that they can understand very early
on the difference between different skin tones. Right, they begin
(37:02):
to buy my kindergarten folks are being able to have
a notion of us in them, right, Folks are able
to little children aren't able to understand their role and
what does it mean to be black or to be white,
or be to be latinx right? And so what that
means is that silence is certainly never going to be
(37:26):
the answer, because children, being curious by nature, are already
seeing these differences, and as they are beginning to be
increasingly able to, are going after experiences to better understand
and make sense of them. So I always try to
empower parents that even if it feels like you don't
know all the right things to say, it's better to
even say that than to just be silent about the issues,
(37:49):
because children actually notice a lot and they can carry
a lot of that, again without maybe necessarily having all
of the coping resources that as adults may have been
able to gather over the years.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
So, Doc, I'm gonna, yeah, you give me the permission.
I'm going to present to you a real case that's
really of course, I'm aware that happened. So what does
a parent do? So an eight year old comes to
a parent in tears with just one simple question, why
was I born black? How do you respond, Wow, that's
(38:29):
that's deep.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
So you said eight.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Years old right yesterday exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Okay, So eight year old comes to their parents and
then asked the question of why was I born black? Wow?
So if I were in that particular position Byron, in
that scenario, I would say for that parent, you know,
(38:55):
to speak to the reality. Right, So, people, all sorts
of people right across this world are born in you know,
different colors, different skin tones, different racial groups, which eight
year old may or may not fully get the full
(39:17):
hand of that, right, But the idea being right that
your skin tone, your hair, your nose, your facial features,
all of these things are wonderful. They're beautiful of really affirming,
really pouring positivity into the notion of being black. Because
(39:43):
to me, Neville, the question why was I born black?
And tears with that question, to me, would signify that already, right,
And this is why this is so important. Already we
see a child who they have already begun to internalize
(40:04):
some sort of notion of blackness as being a bad thing,
as being an ugly thing, as being a less than thing.
And so it is so vital that parents counter that
ugly and misinformed narrative to affirm the beauty, the wholeness
(40:27):
that you know, not the superiority, but the just as
good as nature of blackness and of one one's blackness.
So I would encourage an individual to kind of share
that notion that there are people who is just along
a number of different racial color spectrums. You know, for
(40:49):
whatever reason, your parents are this, and so you're also good.
That's how that works. And also just talking about all
of the wonderful things that it made me to be
born black or to be black, that would be my
techny kind of answer to that.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Now, no parents who have these kinds of things. Is
there a particular place that could go for resources to
learn or or it's just a do you have any
inputs about that? Parents who are suddenly caught with questions
like that, or even aware that there will be one
day trapped with questions like that, is there a place
that they could go to edify themselves.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Sure. Absolutely, that's a great question. So thankfully, you know,
if you were asking me this ten years ago, I
might struggle a little bit more with answering your question.
But there has been a really good boom and resources
that help parents and importantly all parents under the sound
of my voice, even if you are not black or
(41:56):
a person of color, there are a lot of resources
on how to have these stations with their children. And
let me just before I finished answering your question, that will,
let me just say doctor Jones's opinion is that it's
important that all parents talk to their children about race
and racial differences and mistreatment because it is not sufficient.
(42:22):
Right Again, if we think about this as a disease,
right we think about notions of herd immunity. We need
a sufficient number of individuals right to be immunized in
order for it to make a difference. And so if
it's only the marginalized or the black and brown parents
and children who are having these conversations, and none of
(42:47):
our white parents or parents of other backgrounds are having
conversations with their children, then this notion of racism is
also not going to move along. So I want to
say that in regards to specific tangible ways to do that,
one great resource that I had an opportunity to be
a part of is through the American Psychological Association. They
(43:10):
have something known as the res It's called resilience, so
it's spelled like the word resilience. So if you type
in APA resilience on any sort of Internet search platform,
you can find a host of books, of webinars, videos
(43:32):
that parents and it's broken down by developmental age so
that parents can say, Okay, if I have a six
year old or a sixty year old, here are some
books that we can read together. Here are some videos
or cartoons that we can watch together to broke these topics.
And so I would suggest that as just being a
really good landing page for a bunch of resources that
(43:53):
parents can really kit through and think, hey, does this
work for my family, for my household.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
And then use those awesome awesome. We'd be right back
again with doctor Sean Jones with one more question. You
are on the journey. My guest is doctor Sean Jones.
(44:20):
The journey's platform is the Journey dot ryosports dot com.
Ryo Sports is spelt r yo s p O r
t S the Journey dot ryosports dot com. We will
place a link to the American Psychological Associations Building your Resistance.
(44:44):
We will provide that link of the segment entitled the
Conversation Continues, as well as on the segment entitled Modern Families.
You're certainly always welcome to join us on the journey.
The journey dot ryo sports dot com. I am back
(45:11):
with doctor Sean Jones dot Do you have any recommended
healthy routines for adults that would preserve or make us
more mentally strong?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Mm hmm yeah. And then so if that just generally
speaking or in in in in light of kind of current,
the current happening, I want to make sure I'm answering that.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
Yeah, in light of the current happenings. Uh, right right now.
You actually made me think, you know, what we should
be doing all the time, but what we're facing now
is not going to go with tomorrow in my mindset.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Now for sure. Yeah, So you know I would think,
I think in response to that, I would say a
couple of things. So one thing, you know, and I've
talked with countless number of folks over the last couple
of weeks about this, is that oftentimes, Neville, when we feel,
(46:14):
we're taught that there are certain emotions that they're okay
to feel and certain emotions that are less okay to feel.
And that is not you know, as you said, healthy,
That is that is not a pathway to help. And
so one of the first things that I want to
encourage adults, and this actually applies to use its will,
(46:37):
but to adults, is that we again, we're in the
midst of a number of different tragic moments right now
in our in our history, in the history of this nation,
of this of this broader global context. And so if
you feel angry, if you feel said, if you feel destrived,
(47:03):
if you feel hopeless, helpless, any of those emotions, all
of those things are valid, and so it is important
in order to heal we have. We can't heal what
we don't acknowledge, right, and so it's important to first
and foremost recognize and hold space to say, Hey, you know,
I'm angry about this, and that's okay. I'm really scared
(47:25):
because I don't know what's going to happen outside my door,
or I don't know what's going to happen even when
this country or another country when it opens back up.
I don't know what the new normal is going to
look like. I don't know what I'm scared about those things.
It's important to be able to really speak truthfully about
how we're feeling about things. I think that's one one
(47:48):
thing that's really important. I said this again, you know
I said this before, and so I'll say it again, right,
which is making sure that we have I always like
to tell talk about this and this may you know,
resonate because I work with kiddos a lot, but I
often talk about a knapsack or a backpack or toolkits
(48:08):
or whatever appropriate of coping, right, and so sometimes in
the same way. Right, these are very complicated times that
we're living through, and so they require us having a
repertoire or multiple ways in which we get released get
(48:28):
stressed off of us, right. And so it's you know,
some of us run into trouble when we have a
limited number of coping resources, and then when we're not
able to activate those, we're not able to do that
one thing that we always go to, then we find
ourselves distressed or distraught. And so I would encourage folks
(48:49):
to continue to build up a number of healthy coping
skills right, try out new new coping fills. I literally
have this thing on my wall in my office that
says like fifty ways to cope, fifty ways to take
a break. And the reason why I have that up
there is also a reminder to myself that there are
(49:10):
whether it's a belly lack, or yoga or watching a
funny TV series or coloring like there are or baking
bread right, whatever is there are so many different ways
that we can try new things to alleviate the stressors
and strengths that we may be feeling. So again, acknowledge
(49:31):
our emotions right, have a variety of coping skills at
our disposal. The other thing that I will say is
this is particularly I think relevant in this day. Name
is knowing when to unplug and I mean that literally right.
One of the things that we unfortunately don't have. We
(49:56):
have some understanding of in the psychological literature, but there's
feel more to be done. It's really understanding the impact
of this new age of social media in twenty four
hour news cycles and this idea that we are constantly
able to consume information, but not all of that information
serves our mental health. Well, some of it really arouses
(50:19):
fear and again further angers us and further makes us anxious.
And so one thing that I would encourage adults out
there is to kind of check in, have a good
stance of self monitoring as we call it, or being
kind of your own barometer for saying, hey, you know,
what I know this when I sit on Instagram or
(50:41):
I'm scrolling on Twitter all day, I feel really heavy
and it's hard for me to go to sleep and
I don't get up in Do you know that jaw
exercise right, and noticing that there are thing well we
may need to step away for our own mental well
(51:04):
being and not continue to expose ourselves incessantly. So those
would be three of the things that I would suggest
for kind of healthier well being with regard to mental health.
Speaker 4 (51:16):
During this time, and I think they're awesome. And making
notes as you speak, doctor, I am so glad that
you were willing to come onto our show. I know
that we called you at the very last minute and
you made yourself available to us, and I wanted the
audience to know that. Thank you so very very much.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Absolutely, it is absolutely my honor. I'm so grateful that
you have this platform and that you elevate the source
of topics. So I also want to spend my gratitude
to you and support you to keep doing what you're doing.
This is great.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
The Journey is available free on iTunes, Blog Talk Radio, Rio,
Sports Radio, and several of your favorite internet platforms, download event,
and share by any of the social media you love.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Ah, what a magnificent example. In the light of it all.
You are so strong, you are so resilient. You are
a masterpiece. See you next week.
Oftentimes level when we feel, we're taught that there are
certain emotions that they're okay to feel and certain emotions
that are less okay to feel. And that is not
you know, as you said healthy, that is that is
not a pathway to help. And so one of the
(00:23):
first things that I want to encourage adults, and this
actually applies to youth as will, but to adults, is
that we again, we're in the midst of a number
of different tragic moments right now in our in our history,
in the history of this nation, of this of this
(00:43):
broader global context. And so if you feel angry, if.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You feel sad, if you feel.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Destrived, if you feel hopeless, helpless, any of those emotions,
all of those things are valid. And so it is
it's important in order to heal we have. We can't
heal what we don't acknowledge, right, and so it's important
to first and foremost recognize and hold space to say, Hey,
you know, I'm angry about this, and that's okay. I'm
(01:15):
really scared because I don't know what's going to happen
outside my door, or I don't know what's gonna happen
even when this country or another country when it opens
back up. I don't know what the new normal is
going to look like. I don't know what I'm scared
about those things. It's important to be able to really
speak truthfully about how we're feeling about things.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hello, and welcome to the Journey, your radio show hosted
by Nevil d Angelou, author of a sound Bite, Life
and Flight of the Fused Monkeys, a PRG Emerging Technologies
Forum keynote speaker and founder of RIO Sports. I am
Joseph Ellison.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
My guest is Doctor Sean Jones, as System Professor Counseling
Psychology at Virginia Commonwealth University. Dr Jones's long list of
publications and awards highlight expertise in Black youth and family
psychosocial well being, racism related stress and coping processes, racial
(02:20):
ethnic protective factors, and couple's therapy. It is hardly lost
in any of us the magnitude and weight of the
traumas with which our globe is currently inflicted. A pandemic
with all of its uncertainties, its impact on health and
(02:40):
well being, on work and economy, on relationships and lifestyle,
The brutality of vandemic racism, and economic inequities, the crazed
callousness of infectious hatred. These all call for more than reflection,
(03:06):
for more than spittoons to capture her old emotions. I'm
advised that they require deep work, and there is a
need for healing. It is towards this latter that I
have invited doctor Sean Jones, and I will place before
him four requests. I must say he is a brave fellow.
(03:34):
We need folks like him.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Along the journey. We stop at intriguing places and meet
fascinating people with novel solutions to some of life's tricky questions,
and we play a few games in track the remarkable
characters of three classic books, A SoundBite, Life, Flat of
the Fused Monk and Illosad A Time to Begin Again,
all of which can be found on Amazon and Barnes
(04:05):
and Op.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
In a moment, we will meet doctor Sean Jones. I
will request of him to address one the impact of
the Pandemonium on our mental health, along with some guidance.
Two the exacerbation of racism and related stress on our
well being. Three patterns of healthy interactions between parents and
(04:35):
children in times like these, And four healthy routines to
boost our mental strength. Well, hello, doctor Jones, I'm glad
(04:59):
to have you on our show. How are you today?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I am doing so very well and Neville, thank you
so much for having me. I'm excited to be able
to have the opportunity to talk today.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, your expertise is something that we value generally and
particularly even now. Can you tell us a little bit
about yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Absolutely? Absolutely so. I am currently an assistant professor of
Counseling psychology at Virginia Kamawath University that's located in Richmond,
Virginia and the United States. I am trained as a
child and family clinical psychologist, and I also have a
(05:42):
background in public health. So that's a little bit about
me in terms of my research. And then if you
have any other follow ups, sleep feel free to ask.
But my research really focuses on looking at the intersection
between racism related stress and mental health and hoping for
(06:02):
black youth and families.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So you are the perfect person for our show today.
We're so glad that you're here. But I'm going to start.
I have four questions for you, and I'm going to start,
of course, with the pandemic. If you don't mind, you know,
it's put our whole globe on the stress, and many
(06:28):
of us, if we are not experiencing it, we are
fearful that it's going to cause have a great impact
on our mental health. So can you give us a
solid understanding of what is mental health and then talk
to us about the impact of the current climate on
(06:50):
our mental health?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sure? Absolutely, So, first of all, you know, that's a
really great question, And before I answer, I just want
to take a moment to send my best to all
of those who have experience they're currently experiencing, are getting over,
getting through, or related to someone who is experienced this
(07:14):
current global pandemic related to COVID nineteen. Certainly, you know
we have learned over these past couple of months about
the impact that that has on one physical health and
one respiratory system. But we also know a couple of
things well. So first of all, we know that there's
(07:34):
a connection between physical illness and mental health. And by
mental health, we're talking about things like our emotional health,
how what kind of emotions we feel? Are we feeling sad?
Are we feeling anxious? Right? We can think about our
cognitive health, so things like our thought life, are we
having constant worries. Are we constantly thinking about whether or
(08:00):
not we're going to catch or get this horrible disease, right,
as well as our behavioral health, right, so the ways
in which we act and the things that we do
or don't do. And so we know that the illness
itself can you know, make folks feel distraught, feel sad.
(08:21):
We know that there can be grief, you know, associated
with those who may have had someone pass away from
the disease. And we also know that the quarantine itself
and these kind of stay at home restrictions that have
been placed throughout the United States and throughout the world frankly,
(08:43):
also become a fertile ground for us to really have
to wrestle with things like being isolated, right, being constantly
exposed to troubling information that can make us anxious. Right.
And so for those of us who may already have
an underlying predisposition to worry, or we previously have battled
(09:08):
being said or being depressed, this time can also be
particularly challenging if we're not able to engage with our
like typical coping skills that we might use if we
were able to go outside and be around everyone, we
wanted to. So there are multiple ways in which mental
health and kind of COVID nineteen really intersects.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Now, do you have any any suggestions as how we
can I know that, for example, the US right now,
things I don't know if it's easing or you know,
whether we've peaked or we've just flattened the curve. But
what can people be doing? Would you say to ease
(09:51):
that the pain?
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely, so, you know, I think that there are number
of things that folks can do. So I think one
of the things noble that happens, this is a stressful time,
and so I think one of the first things that's
important to do is to acknowledge that we you know,
oftentimes the word unprecedented global pandemic. Sometimes it's hard to
(10:20):
really put that into words, but it's important that we
continue to understand that for many of us, right the
least comfortable thing many health experts day on a national
stage was the Spanish you know, influenza in the early
you know, nineteen hundred. So for most people living this
(10:41):
is an unprecedented time. It is a stressful time. So
acknowledging that it is stressful, we can begin to think about, well,
what do I typically do. What are the my typical
go tos, my typical resources for coping when I'm stressed, Right,
So I'll use a personal example for me, right, something
(11:04):
that I really enjoyed to do to help me cope.
I enjoy engaging in some sort of physical activity, some
sort of exercise right there. You know, there are a
lot of great benefits between kind of brain body connection,
which I'm sure you know about in terms of being
able to both kind of release certain stress hormones in
(11:26):
the context of working out, you know, feeling better, right,
kind of having endorphins that that kick up when we're
able to engage in that way. And so yes, we
you know, we previously may have not been able to
go to certain gems, but there are are there still
ways that we could be physically active or fit. And
(11:49):
as the curve flattens and some of these restrictions lift,
obviously will have to do those things safely and following
those guidelines, but not abandoned those hoping skills that we
know tend to help us feel better. Right, So, eating healthy,
working out, socially connecting with folks. Right, I've had I
(12:11):
don't know how many zoom catchups or hangouts or phone calls.
Even if I can't physically hang out with my family
and friends, I know it's important for me to still
have that social connection so I don't feel isolated, right
And so making sure thinking about we might have to
use a little bit of creativity, but making sure that
we continue to access our tool get of coping resources
(12:34):
is something I think would be a big help for
us now and as we hopefully ease into kind of
returning to and I guess the new normal.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Really, it will be a new normal. Okay, we will
be right back with Dr Jones with a question about racism.
We'll be right back. You are on the Journey. The
(13:16):
Journey's platform is the Journey dot Rio sports dot com.
The Journey is one word, and Ryo Sports is spelled
r y O s p O r t s dot
com The Journey dot Rio sports dot com. There you
will find resources readiably available free to you. You're welcome
(13:37):
to check out our shows and select the segment Mental
and Emotional well Being The Journey dot Rio sports dot com.
I am back with doctor Sean Joe. Doctor Racism is
(14:02):
an open wound in the US, of course, and of
course not only in the US. It's We're not the
only nation that is inflicted by this. Talk to us
please about the exacerbation of racism and race related stress
and mental health and our well being.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So, you know, you know, I think
I was watching the news program the other evening and
I was struck by.
Speaker 7 (14:36):
One of the the headlines that read on the screen,
which is which stated that the United States is facing
two great pandemics COVID nineteen and racism.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
And seeing that, I thought, wow, that is so so
poignant and so very very real because in in the
midst of what we talked about during you know, our
first segment together, all of these we're dealing with this
unprecedented and unknown virus pandemic, UH, this stabilitating disease, and unfortunately,
(15:18):
in the United States and this country, we are also
dealing with a virus in a disease that we are
all too familiar with but have not been able in
four hundred years plus to eradicate. And that is racism
in its many forms. And so, you know, as a
scholar who studies you know, racism, racial discrimination, race based
(15:44):
traumatic stress, we know that those experiences run rough shot.
They completely have the propensity to debilitate, to exhaust our resources.
Talks before about stress and coping, right, So if we
think about racism as this chronic, chronic stressor that operates
(16:09):
on so many levels, it taxes in any individual's opportunity
or ability to cope, right, And so you know, suddenly
the jog is not enough, The healthy meal might not
be enough, the laughter with friends might not be enough.
Their prayer may not be enough. Right, All of these
things are very important. But if we're unundated constantly with
(16:34):
images and experiences and microaggressions and slights and racial epipets, right,
and seeing individuals' lives taken away on camera, right, all
of these things, that's at our our feelings of being hopeful. Right,
(16:55):
So we talk about hopelessness that emerges, hopelessness that emerge,
We talk about righteous anger that emerges. A lot of
the emotional health that I talked about initially comes to
minds when we're thinking about the ways in which racism
can impact our mental health. So it can impact us internally, right,
(17:18):
in terms of how we feel about ourselves. It can
cause us to manifest that stress in an external way, right,
So it may lead us to throw a brick through
a window or yell at our neighbor or coworker for
calling us a name, or for saying that we found
a certain way right, and we also you didn't ask
(17:41):
me about this, But we also know that that racism
gets into the skin, as some scholars I talked about,
it gets into our bodies and also is associated with
a number of negative physical health ailments. So it's kind
of this three sixty double edged sworders work to speak
when we're talking about racism.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, well, all right, now you put a number of
things in perspective for me when you put it. You
you mentioned this very pround impact on the mind and
the body. I never had looked at it that way.
Obviously experience all the stuff that you're talking about. Uh
(18:24):
do you I know this is not a fair question,
but I'll put it to you anyway. What can we do?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Oh my gosh, So I am mindful and the the
that moment of what I just did, that sign that
exhalation is not actually lost on me in this moment level.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Because we have many individuals in the fifty states that
represent the United States of America and across the world
who are currently as the recording of this right in
the throes of protests, because many of them witness, they
heard about, or saw with their own eyes that for
(19:11):
nearly nine minutes, the ability to do what I just did,
to take a breath, was literally taken away from a
black man by the name of George Floyd. So when
the first thing that comes to mind, besides wow, what
a by pass is to breathe, To breathe is an
(19:34):
active resistance. It is a big thing that we can do, right,
is to first remember, for those of us who are
directly directly in our due to the color of our skin,
our ethnicity, directly dealing with this racism, we have to
remember to breathe. Right, That's the one that's one thing
(19:58):
that first comes to mind. Right, the second thing that
comes to mind, Honestly, since you ask a big question,
I'm going to try to give you a big answer
and not be too hard on year return. But you know,
the question of what do we do? My response to
that is who are the we as we're referring to?
(20:21):
Because the depending on depending on you know, what we
know and what we see. Unfortunately, throughout the writing of
this country's history is that part of part of the
system of racism comes from you know, we're talking about we,
(20:41):
but a lot, a lot of what we're seeing comes
from this, this outering, this us versus them, this lack
of seeing a common humanity. And so when I think
about what we can do, it behooves those of us who,
either through our own direct and I don't mean this
in a religious way, but through our own direct sin
(21:04):
or through the sins of our forefathers, have not consistently
seen everyone in this country as human. We have to
do the work to admit that we have played a
part in that. We have to do the work to
change that narrative of seeing other people as less thin,
(21:25):
as inferior, as not human. Right again, calling back to
the incident with brother Floyd in Minneapolis. Only to me, right,
the only way that I can justify what I saw
with my eyes because I did watch it, is wow.
This individual these individuals must not have viewed this person
(21:49):
as a fool person, because if you did view that
person in that way, then you would not snuff out
their life. Right. And so that's a big thing. We
have to be able to recognize and see the humanity
in each person. And when we are doing that, we
(22:11):
also have to be careful that we don't erase the
individual things that make folks special in that humanity, right,
And so what am I speaking to there? I'm speaking
to Sometimes there is a desire to want to see
kumbaya and have a what is referred to as a
color blind ideology, a notion that we are all just
(22:34):
the same. And the reality again that bears out in
the history of this world and specifically in the United States,
is that it is very clear that we are not
We are all human, but we are not all the same. Right,
So we want equity, We want equality, but the idea
that we don't see race or don't see color also
(22:58):
is problematic. So we have to open up our eyes
to those differences and learn to respect those differences. And
for the folks under the sound of my voice, I
am an African American psychologist, so the folks under the
sound of my voices share that identity and other communities
of color. We have to continue to resist in all
(23:23):
the ways and also to make sure that we are
prioritizing both our mental, mental and physical well being. Right,
So we have to continue to reach for and engage
across our coping mechanisms. We have to continue to take
care of our physical bodies. When we know that are
(23:48):
the value of our bodies is sometimes less than our peer,
it seems right we have to continue to do that
work as well. So it's a big question because the
answer to that question depends on who is defined as
we right. Yes, so hopefully that was at least a
partially satisfactory answer.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
No, that's more satisfactory. I recognize, of course, that this
is a very big topic that we are all in
the middle of, and there's no way in a few
minutes we could have But I appreciate at least that
you're putting you were able to impactfully state the issue
as it is, as we are seeking to resolution. I
(24:32):
know not everyone wants a resolution to it, but certainly
I want to. I know people, let me let me
do one more follow up question, if you don't mind
on this very thing. We all know that awareness is
an issue. I'm just hesitating myself to make sure that
(24:55):
so communication is absolutely necessary. I know that we that
that is a part of in my mind, a very
small part, necessary, essential part of it. But how much
in danger are we of just talking, just talking and
(25:17):
leaving it there.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, yeah, that's that's a really really good that's a
really really good question. And I'm reminded, and I'm going
to paraphrase a bit, but I'm reminded of a quote
from Malcolm X. And I know that Malcolm X was
a for many folks, perhaps a controversial figure, but there
(25:42):
is a quote associated with Malcolm X wherein he talks
about this notion that if you stick a knife in
my back right six inches and you only pull it
out three that's not progress. And so when I think
about the notion of talking right and stopping there, that
(26:05):
is the image that often comes to my mind, because
it is not it is not ultimately sufficient right. And
so I appreciate you asking this follow up question because
unless I be misconstrewd, I do think that it's important
for us, or for those of us who have certain privileges,
(26:26):
are afforded certain privilege benefit from a system of oppression
perhaps that disportionately affects marginized communities, people of color, that
we that we recognize that privilege, but then what do
(26:46):
we do with that? And so that's why in our
current hour, you are seeing or hopefully seeing, and if
you haven't, I invite you to search and look up
this notion of anti racism, right. It is because anti
racism says it is not enough to say nakoopa, It
is not enough to say, oh, my goodness, this is
(27:09):
so terrible. But the next step to true reconciliation and
healing for a broken and thick nation, when we get
back to that notion of these two viruses, is we
also have to take the proper anti racist action to repair.
And this is why Neville, this is so beautiful with
(27:31):
a parallel right now in the year twenty twenty of
COVID nineteen, because doctor Anthony Frausci and the other folks
who talk to us about COVID nineteen, they are not
just getting us to acknowledge that there is this virus
that attacks the respiratory system. But no, after we understand
that this thing exists, then we put on our masks,
(27:55):
we wash our hands, we social distance, we do the
things that we must do you to eradicate to Platt
and to eliminate ultimately the curve. And so if it
is good enough for COVID nineteen, it is more than
good enough for racism.
Speaker 8 (28:12):
I am so glad, and I'm so glad you recognize
that parallel yep. Absolutely. All I'll say to that is
a man. I will be right back with doctor Shawn Jones.
(28:34):
You are on the journey. My guest is doctor Sean Jones.
He is the second year Assistant Professor in the Counseling
Program in the Psychology Department at Virginia Commonwealth University. He
also holds a Master of Health Science in Mental Health
(28:55):
from John Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health and
a Bachelor of Science and Psychology from Duke University. Doctor
Jones endeavors impact the psychosocial well being of Black youth
and their families by a exploring mechanisms on the girding
(29:18):
culturally relevant, protective and promoter factors. B Translating basic research
into interventions that harness the unique strengths of the Black experience,
and c disseminating this research to be consumed, critique, and
(29:40):
enhanced by the communities the work intends to serve.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Clinically. He is committed to the provision of culturally informed child,
couple and family therapy and assessment, and he is passionate
about eliminating racial health dispat particularly those related to mental
health services, which he sees is obtainable through stigma reduction
(30:12):
and mental health literacy interventions. To that end, he with
his colleague doctor Rianna Anderson, has created a video series
and podcast entitled Our Mental Health Minute. In his kindness
(30:32):
and with that expretness, Dr Jones is on the journey,
attending to mental health and healing in a time such
as this. You're on the journey. The journey's platform is
the Journey dot ryosports dot com. You will find information
(30:53):
there on anti racism and actions you can take to
engage in working through such issues. On the Journey, the
conversation continues. Click on the conversation continues, and you will
find pastors having an uncomfortable conversation dealing with these issues.
(31:18):
You will find doctor Robin DeAngelo explaining in clear detail
the issue of privilege in racism. You will find brilliant
youths showing their resolve and light of their experiences. You
will find spiritual leaders from around the world grappling together
(31:41):
with the issue straight on, an honest, and much more.
Visit the Conversation continues on the Journey dot Rio sports
dot com. I'm back with doctor Sean Jones. Uh, Doctor,
(32:15):
I want to go to the kids. Now, what would
be a pattern of healthy interactions between a parent and
a child if that child is showing extreme stress or
just stress period after experiencing or witnessing acts of racism.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, no, well sorry, I appreciate that question as well.
And so this is definitely something that is near and
dear to my heart as someone who sees myself as
a child and family psychologist. And I think about this
often because it is one of the very sad reality
(32:56):
and harsh realities of this thing around racism. Right, And so.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It is not enough that we have to or that
individuals have to experience or be exposed to racism as adults.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
But now we have to decide how do we talk
to children, or how do we shield children, or can
we even shield children from the nefariousness of racism that
they might experience, How do we help to to protect
them in that incidence? And so I am someone who
(33:38):
is an intermediate social media user, and this morning, as
I was getting ready for my day, I thought about
a poem by Langston Hughes which is titled mother to Son,
And that particular poem comes a common referen that I
(34:00):
alday's heard a lot growing up. This idea that you
know it's a mother's say. Sun life for me ain't
been no crystal stare. There's been a lot of harshness
and nails and places where the rug is pulled up.
And I keep climbing, and I keep running, and I
keep reaching. But sometimes it's dark and sometimes it's light.
(34:22):
And that poem to me, which I share today, was
really emblematic of part of the work that we are
asking parents to do for children is that how do
we explain to children that, hey, because of something you
(34:43):
can't control the color of your skin, the kink in
your hair, there may be folks who look at you
as less than you may get called names. You may
have people think that the color of your skin is
actually mud, and then you just take a shower, which
sometimes gets when they're first coming across understanding skin tone differences,
(35:07):
might say innocently enough, right, But how do we begin
to help our children understand right and protect them in
advance that they may experience these things? And So, for me,
what a healthy interaction or a healthy exchange looks like
is it looks like parents using developmentally appropriate language to
(35:35):
talk to their children about the realities of what's going on.
One of my best friends lives in Chicago, and they
walked past some of the protests, and I was so
proud to hear how that exchange went, because you know,
it wasn't a discussion of trying to explain fully all
(35:58):
of the tenants of certain movements or certain groups that
were out there, but it said, hey, there are folks
who are upset because you know, something bad happened to
people that wasn't right, and it happened to people because
of the color of their skin, and so these folks
are really passionate or they really want to make sure
that the next time the right things are done right.
(36:20):
That is, it maybe sounds simple to us, but can
be so powerful to equipping children with starting to have
an appreciation and understanding for the things that are going
on around them. And the reason why that's so vital.
And then I'll take a break to see if there's
a follow up to this that you might have. Is
(36:41):
that we know, right, we know that at early ages
children began to recognize and look more at faces that
look different, knowing meaning that they can understand very early
on the difference between different skin tones. Right, they begin
(37:02):
to buy my kindergarten folks are being able to have
a notion of us in them, right, Folks are able
to little children aren't able to understand their role and
what does it mean to be black or to be white,
or be to be latinx right? And so what that
means is that silence is certainly never going to be
(37:26):
the answer, because children, being curious by nature, are already
seeing these differences, and as they are beginning to be
increasingly able to, are going after experiences to better understand
and make sense of them. So I always try to
empower parents that even if it feels like you don't
know all the right things to say, it's better to
even say that than to just be silent about the issues,
(37:49):
because children actually notice a lot and they can carry
a lot of that, again without maybe necessarily having all
of the coping resources that as adults may have been
able to gather over the years.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
So, Doc, I'm gonna, yeah, you give me the permission.
I'm going to present to you a real case that's
really of course, I'm aware that happened. So what does
a parent do? So an eight year old comes to
a parent in tears with just one simple question, why
was I born black? How do you respond, Wow, that's
(38:29):
that's deep.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
So you said eight.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Years old right yesterday exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Okay, So eight year old comes to their parents and
then asked the question of why was I born black? Wow?
So if I were in that particular position Byron, in
that scenario, I would say for that parent, you know,
(38:55):
to speak to the reality. Right, So, people, all sorts
of people right across this world are born in you know,
different colors, different skin tones, different racial groups, which eight
year old may or may not fully get the full
(39:17):
hand of that, right, But the idea being right that
your skin tone, your hair, your nose, your facial features,
all of these things are wonderful. They're beautiful of really affirming,
really pouring positivity into the notion of being black. Because
(39:43):
to me, Neville, the question why was I born black?
And tears with that question, to me, would signify that already, right,
And this is why this is so important. Already we
see a child who they have already begun to internalize
(40:04):
some sort of notion of blackness as being a bad thing,
as being an ugly thing, as being a less than thing.
And so it is so vital that parents counter that
ugly and misinformed narrative to affirm the beauty, the wholeness
(40:27):
that you know, not the superiority, but the just as
good as nature of blackness and of one one's blackness.
So I would encourage an individual to kind of share
that notion that there are people who is just along
a number of different racial color spectrums. You know, for
(40:49):
whatever reason, your parents are this, and so you're also good.
That's how that works. And also just talking about all
of the wonderful things that it made me to be
born black or to be black, that would be my
techny kind of answer to that.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Now, no parents who have these kinds of things. Is
there a particular place that could go for resources to
learn or or it's just a do you have any
inputs about that? Parents who are suddenly caught with questions
like that, or even aware that there will be one
day trapped with questions like that, is there a place
that they could go to edify themselves.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Sure. Absolutely, that's a great question. So thankfully, you know,
if you were asking me this ten years ago, I
might struggle a little bit more with answering your question.
But there has been a really good boom and resources
that help parents and importantly all parents under the sound
of my voice, even if you are not black or
(41:56):
a person of color, there are a lot of resources
on how to have these stations with their children. And
let me just before I finished answering your question, that will,
let me just say doctor Jones's opinion is that it's
important that all parents talk to their children about race
and racial differences and mistreatment because it is not sufficient.
(42:22):
Right Again, if we think about this as a disease,
right we think about notions of herd immunity. We need
a sufficient number of individuals right to be immunized in
order for it to make a difference. And so if
it's only the marginalized or the black and brown parents
and children who are having these conversations, and none of
(42:47):
our white parents or parents of other backgrounds are having
conversations with their children, then this notion of racism is
also not going to move along. So I want to
say that in regards to specific tangible ways to do that,
one great resource that I had an opportunity to be
a part of is through the American Psychological Association. They
(43:10):
have something known as the res It's called resilience, so
it's spelled like the word resilience. So if you type
in APA resilience on any sort of Internet search platform,
you can find a host of books, of webinars, videos
(43:32):
that parents and it's broken down by developmental age so
that parents can say, Okay, if I have a six
year old or a sixty year old, here are some
books that we can read together. Here are some videos
or cartoons that we can watch together to broke these topics.
And so I would suggest that as just being a
really good landing page for a bunch of resources that
(43:53):
parents can really kit through and think, hey, does this
work for my family, for my household.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
And then use those awesome awesome. We'd be right back
again with doctor Sean Jones with one more question. You
are on the journey. My guest is doctor Sean Jones.
(44:20):
The journey's platform is the Journey dot ryosports dot com.
Ryo Sports is spelt r yo s p O r
t S the Journey dot ryosports dot com. We will
place a link to the American Psychological Associations Building your Resistance.
(44:44):
We will provide that link of the segment entitled the
Conversation Continues, as well as on the segment entitled Modern Families.
You're certainly always welcome to join us on the journey.
The journey dot ryo sports dot com. I am back
(45:11):
with doctor Sean Jones dot Do you have any recommended
healthy routines for adults that would preserve or make us
more mentally strong?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Mm hmm yeah. And then so if that just generally
speaking or in in in in light of kind of current,
the current happening, I want to make sure I'm answering that.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
Yeah, in light of the current happenings. Uh, right right now.
You actually made me think, you know, what we should
be doing all the time, but what we're facing now
is not going to go with tomorrow in my mindset.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Now for sure. Yeah, So you know I would think,
I think in response to that, I would say a
couple of things. So one thing, you know, and I've
talked with countless number of folks over the last couple
of weeks about this, is that oftentimes, Neville, when we feel,
(46:14):
we're taught that there are certain emotions that they're okay
to feel and certain emotions that are less okay to feel.
And that is not you know, as you said, healthy,
That is that is not a pathway to help. And
so one of the first things that I want to
encourage adults, and this actually applies to use its will,
(46:37):
but to adults, is that we again, we're in the
midst of a number of different tragic moments right now
in our in our history, in the history of this nation,
of this of this broader global context. And so if
you feel angry, if you feel said, if you feel destrived,
(47:03):
if you feel hopeless, helpless, any of those emotions, all
of those things are valid, and so it is important
in order to heal we have. We can't heal what
we don't acknowledge, right, and so it's important to first
and foremost recognize and hold space to say, Hey, you know,
I'm angry about this, and that's okay. I'm really scared
(47:25):
because I don't know what's going to happen outside my door,
or I don't know what's going to happen even when
this country or another country when it opens back up.
I don't know what the new normal is going to
look like. I don't know what I'm scared about those things.
It's important to be able to really speak truthfully about
how we're feeling about things. I think that's one one
(47:48):
thing that's really important. I said this again, you know
I said this before, and so I'll say it again, right,
which is making sure that we have I always like
to tell talk about this and this may you know,
resonate because I work with kiddos a lot, but I
often talk about a knapsack or a backpack or toolkits
(48:08):
or whatever appropriate of coping, right, and so sometimes in
the same way. Right, these are very complicated times that
we're living through, and so they require us having a
repertoire or multiple ways in which we get released get
(48:28):
stressed off of us, right. And so it's you know,
some of us run into trouble when we have a
limited number of coping resources, and then when we're not
able to activate those, we're not able to do that
one thing that we always go to, then we find
ourselves distressed or distraught. And so I would encourage folks
(48:49):
to continue to build up a number of healthy coping
skills right, try out new new coping fills. I literally
have this thing on my wall in my office that
says like fifty ways to cope, fifty ways to take
a break. And the reason why I have that up
there is also a reminder to myself that there are
(49:10):
whether it's a belly lack, or yoga or watching a
funny TV series or coloring like there are or baking
bread right, whatever is there are so many different ways
that we can try new things to alleviate the stressors
and strengths that we may be feeling. So again, acknowledge
(49:31):
our emotions right, have a variety of coping skills at
our disposal. The other thing that I will say is
this is particularly I think relevant in this day. Name
is knowing when to unplug and I mean that literally right.
One of the things that we unfortunately don't have. We
(49:56):
have some understanding of in the psychological literature, but there's
feel more to be done. It's really understanding the impact
of this new age of social media in twenty four
hour news cycles and this idea that we are constantly
able to consume information, but not all of that information
serves our mental health. Well, some of it really arouses
(50:19):
fear and again further angers us and further makes us anxious.
And so one thing that I would encourage adults out
there is to kind of check in, have a good
stance of self monitoring as we call it, or being
kind of your own barometer for saying, hey, you know,
what I know this when I sit on Instagram or
(50:41):
I'm scrolling on Twitter all day, I feel really heavy
and it's hard for me to go to sleep and
I don't get up in Do you know that jaw
exercise right, and noticing that there are thing well we
may need to step away for our own mental well
(51:04):
being and not continue to expose ourselves incessantly. So those
would be three of the things that I would suggest
for kind of healthier well being with regard to mental health.
Speaker 4 (51:16):
During this time, and I think they're awesome. And making
notes as you speak, doctor, I am so glad that
you were willing to come onto our show. I know
that we called you at the very last minute and
you made yourself available to us, and I wanted the
audience to know that. Thank you so very very much.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Absolutely, it is absolutely my honor. I'm so grateful that
you have this platform and that you elevate the source
of topics. So I also want to spend my gratitude
to you and support you to keep doing what you're doing.
This is great.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
The Journey is available free on iTunes, Blog Talk Radio, Rio,
Sports Radio, and several of your favorite internet platforms, download event,
and share by any of the social media you love.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Ah, what a magnificent example. In the light of it all.
You are so strong, you are so resilient. You are
a masterpiece. See you next week.
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