February 4, 2025 • 30 mins
Rui Tang's journey from China to America with an incubating passion provides us a powerful lesson on the peculiarity of choice as well as the importance of intelligent shadowing, a solid conviction, and smart decision-making.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, some people like I say this life is
from B to D, right from birds to death. But
B two D.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
But they said, but I think it's alwast important that
life is from B to C to D. The C
means choice and you have to make a lot of
choice along the way. Yes, And you know, a long
time I got read the lesson. It talks about how
the word decide, you know, like make decision, decide, decide.
You know, the root of the world is very profound
(00:28):
if you think about it. So side means to kill, right,
like a pesticide or homicide or suicide. The side the
basicly means to kill, and which means decide. It means
you actually you literally kill all the other options available
for you. So you have to make it very serious
and so yeah, so I think one should always be
conscious of how they make decisions and the choices because
(00:50):
it matters.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Hello and welcome to the Journey your radio show hosted
by Nevil d Angelou, author of a sound Bite Life
and Flight of the Views Monkeys, a PR Emerging Technologies
Forum keynote speaker and founder of RIO Sports. I am
Joseph Ellison, Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I am Mabel our guest is the delightful and insightful
Ray Tang. I know Ray for several years now, first
as his coach. Equally, he has come to be a
wonderful friend, a deep thinker who's prudent and though I
(01:33):
was privy to his transition from bachelor to husband, and
I'm privileged to enjoy the welcome and company of his
charming wife, doctor Sarah Tang. Both Ray and Sarah are
particularly adept at creating sustainable cross cultural communities with an
(01:55):
inspirational diversity, inclusive across academic and social spectra. So I
get to enjoy lots of wonderful moments in great company
in my practice as well as through engagements and explorations,
(02:16):
many explorations, I get to wrestle with lots of muscular
questions that require action for resolution. And you know the
feeling you get when you find that answer, That aha,
that satisfaction at a resolution, a sense of growth. Yes, yes, yes,
(02:37):
I got it, only to discover weeks later, Oops, there
is so much more. Well, Truly, we don't know what
we don't know? Isn't life exciting? Then there are questions
(02:58):
that surface repeatedly like boomerangs around our globe questions around
passion and calling and education and career, that elusive search
for a one size fits all quick fix, that reverberating
(03:20):
I try that.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What's next?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
In times like these, perhaps it's good to take a
deep breath, look deep within and listen, really listen to
the story. The story what Isabella Allende calls that which
(03:43):
is truer than truth. It is for this reason that
I have invited Ray to share a portion of his story,
his academic journey with us. I'll be right back with
rate ang.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Along the journey, we stop at intriguing places and meet
fascinating people with novel solutions to some of life's tricky questions.
And we play a few games and track the remarkable
characters of three classic books A SoundBite Life, Flight of
the Fused Monkeys, and ill A Set A Time to
Begin Again, all of which can be found on Amazon
(04:27):
and Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Welcome to the journey, Thank you, Nevill, Thank you for
having having me. I really appreciate this opportunity to share here.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But you have a beautiful story, and I think the
audience would love to hear it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Talk to us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Sure, yeah, so, I think one thing I want to
talk about is my academic journey. You know, as Asian
parents are always focusing a lot on their kids' education,
and I think my education journey is not traditional, but
it's definitely unique enough. I think hopefully, I hope can
inspire people of your audience, so as most Chinese students.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So I went to college in.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
China, and at that time, I don't know exactly what
major to pursue. So in China you have decided your
major right after high school, so before entering college, you
really have to declare your major. And for a while,
I was like, hmm, I know, I like science and
I like, you know, figure out mechanisms and puzzles. So
(05:32):
my parents suggest why not you just choose engineering, like
electronic engineering, you know, civil engineering, And I thought engineering
sounds like great deal because it doesn't help, you know,
solve problems.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So I chose engineering.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I listened to their voice, just like I think in
fact a lot of Chinesemen might do that too. Is
sometimes just listen to the parents' suggestions. So I went
to college and then after the first semester, I realized
I really really hate I really hate you check engineering,
and I just realized, even though the science, even though
(06:08):
it's mechanism figure on the mechanism of things, I don't
like it because it doesn't involve any human interaction. And
I realized that's the first time that actually my passion
lies in the human interaction aspect.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And however, in China, changing major is not always an
easy thing.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Unlike here, you can keep changing majors, but in China
you actually have to be the TOPI.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
At least at my university.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
University, you have to the top of five of your
class to change major later, which means you have really
good at your Yes, it'll be really good at your
academic work before you can leave that work, which you
don't make sense, but that's how the policy was. So
as a result, I studied super hard and eventually I
(06:56):
didn't end up in top of five, so I switched
my major. But before switching my major, I was thinking
what major should I switch to. I know I don't
like engineering, but I want to find something that I
truly enjoy. So I started this exploration of finding my
path and finding.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Where my niche is in this world.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And I realized I like medicine, and you know, medical
or knowledge. I also like natural sciences that involved in
human interactions, like I mentioned earlier. So as a result,
I think maybe psychology can work best because medicine, I'm
like a here again. Medical school is also you have
(07:40):
to go to right after high school, so once you're
in college, you actually don't have any chance to switch
to medicine anymore, which is actually real don't want to do.
So as a result, I think, you know, I would
just switch to psychology clinical psychology, which is great show,
which is a great program where I can still inter
acted with the human beings and I can deal with
(08:03):
those natural sciences and human sciences. So that's how I
started this exploration. However, at my university there's even no
psych major. There's no psychological major. Yes, so it's I
felt very frustrated. I know, this is a very difficult
time for me. When I was a freshman as sophomore,
and the only option is they had a grad school
(08:25):
in psychology, but they are not open to undergrad students,
and they they also it's not something that that I
can easily get into. But I realized fortunately I had
an advisor when I was in the engineering program that she's
very supportive and she always told me that Ray, you
(08:47):
should always pursue what your true passion is, even the
society might tell you, you know, be an engineer, or
be a businessman. Those you know, glamorous majors or those
major man make a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know, put in a comfortable zone.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
But if that's not where your true passion is, you
actually will suffware in a long term. So and so
I met with her regularly, and so she always encouraged me.
And then my decision was, okay, I will change to
English major.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So this is my thought process.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It was something very crazy. So the only option that
is I change to English major. And my advisor actually
through another psychology professor. Even though we don't have a
psycho major, there are a lot of psychology classes, so
talk to several psycho professors too. They told me change
to English major to improve your English because later you
(09:43):
can go to America or UK, you know, those English
speaking countries, study clinical psychology as your grad degree, and
you need a very good English to communicate with patients.
And maybe then through that past you can achieve your dream.
And I think that totally makes sense and it is
very natural path at that time for me. At the
(10:04):
same time, I know it's vervey counterintuitive and not what
my parents expected. So I went back till then my
plan and they think I was just crazy basically because
they're like, who, why did you even change major English?
And you know, being engineering is such an easy and
(10:25):
it's a very profitable job in China.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
But I told it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Then, I said, you know, this is really where my
passion is, and they didn't quite understand me. So they're like, okay,
just well, if you decide to choose this path, you
have to know then you have the also bear the consequence,
which means later you might find yourself unemployed off the graduation,
because what if you cannot go to America or UK
(10:49):
and what if you cannot find a job because as
an English major student it's not easy to find a
job either, because everybody is good at English two different degrees,
so as an English major student alone, you don't have
a unique advantage. However, I still want to persist this path,
so I tried my best. So what I did is
(11:12):
when I was so, I switched because my top GPA
in the engineering field, so I switched maj to English,
and so I started, of course finish my English classes
but at the same time, I started taking all the
psych classes possible. I contact all the professors I know
at my school, psych professors and even other professors at
(11:33):
another school in Chandu where I used to go to college.
And so I shadowed a lot of professors, a lot
of doctors, and I think I will prepare myself and
then start applying for grad school here in America. I
don't know what we know, but a clinical psychology PhD
program is very y, very competitive in America. The admission
(11:57):
rate normally is about five percent, and so I actually
didn't know this much until later when I start preparing
to apply, I realized it's a super competitive program, and
I felt I said, oh my gosh, what if I
cannot go because it is very competitive. I applied to
(12:19):
Let me think this was back in two sevent eleven,
I applied to about a twenty five grad pitched programs
in psychology. By the way, the reason I applied to
PhD direct me is because in order to become a psychologist,
you have to have a PhD degree and hours to
provide a funding, which is great. So so yeah, so
(12:40):
that's my plan. But you know, once I apply and
one letter of rejection off another is very disappointing and
very frustrating. And even yeah, they didn't even offer me
interview one from another and so I only got an
interview from two schools two out of twenty five apply.
(13:03):
But also, as you know, I also believe in God,
and I think, you know, if this is a path
that I was called to, and then you know, I
know there will be a chance. So such the same time,
you know, in addition to pray, I always wonder like
what else can I do to better prepare myself? And
so I count to a lot of students that I
know in trying to remember this has still in China,
(13:26):
so without without having any resources here, the shadowing the
American doctors. So I signed up for a lot of
newsletters and stuff in China at the time. Whenever there're
the psychologists, American psychologists come to China, can do, I will.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Go admit them.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And so eventually there was one American psychologist came to
my city and quickly winter and I talked with her
and actually later even asked her to writing a letter
of recommendation. But I kind of talk with her and
shadow her because she's doing some clinical practice there so
eventually I got admitted to one school, yes, which is
(14:05):
totally surprised to me because they later told me they
admitted to ten students out of two hundred and fifty students,
and I'm the only international students. In fact, I was
the first international student. And so that's how I ended
up in my first program, which the University of Houston
Clinger Psychology.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So after staying.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
There for a while for first year, my advisor left
the program, so after the first year. So sometimes that's
why later, you know, I want to talk about how
sometimes you can plan everything, but I think life does
not always go the way you wanted, and you have
to be very flexible about it. So so my advisor
left a program, and you know, for PhD programs, the
(14:49):
purpose is to go there for your advisor. If your
advisor leaves the program, then Kendall left, you can look
disoriented and one I'm supposed to hear or the program
was very very understand me, and they were like, how
about you started with a different faculty there whose research
interests might don't match my at all, or I can
(15:13):
just transfer to a different programs. So I thought about
it and prayed about it, and then I just again
consult a lot of people. I think that's another advice
I learned is you should always consult a lot of
people to get the expertise, because when you look at
an issue by yourself, it's very limited, right, But when
(15:33):
you talk to people who have gone through this path,
they are definitely more knowledgeable and then they can.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Point to different directions for you. So that's how I started.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So I talked to my faculty, my other faculty at
the University of Houston, and so most soon suggested maybe
switch a program, because if you want to stay in
this field for a long term, you need some mentor
to guide you. This a long way, not just staying
here without any people giving you directions.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So as a.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Result, I start to have to considering different school to transfer,
and transferring program is also not easy because basically it's
like a great applications you reapply to different school and
I of course this might now sound very easy, but
I was very, very devastated at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I was why I came here, for why my advisor left.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
But again, you know, there are a lot of things
I think happened in my life.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I know that it might not look the way I
want it to be.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But I know that God ls a purpose and I
know that it did not necessarily turn out to be
a bad things. And so as a result, I talked
to my advisor and finally, so I worked in a different
research lab in the meantime, and so I realized that
my PM, my principal investigation, the lab director, she actually
(17:02):
knows a different faculty that she's a good friend with
who works at SMU Southern Message University in Dallas, and
his research interest is much in mind. So I as
all perfect and as at least I can you know,
at least she pointed me to someone, and so so
(17:23):
she pointed me to him, and then I started contacting
him and email him, and.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He showed interest in my research work too.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So I applied to s M and I also applied
to another three or four university because at that time
it's a little bit late already too in the application season.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And it's also.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Limited now because now I have a kind of research
field and I kindot just run them apply to any
programs in the US. So as a result, I applied
to those five programs and interviewed and some of them,
and eventually the faculty the professor at the SMU took me.
So I successfully transferred to SMU and came to Dallas,
(18:11):
and which is a very interesting journey because after coming
to Dallas, you know, I met a lot of people
and made the new friends me and my wife here too.
So so, like I said, it's not a bad thing
when you look backwards, but you when you are in
that period, sometimes you can be very you know, frustrating,
and it can be you can feel very desperate. You
(18:31):
feel like why things don't go the way I want
it to be. So after staying the program for a
while at the pH D, I really enjoyed doing researching
with this faculty. But again, you know, my initial goal
a long time ago one one one was in high school,
is I really want to become medical doctor. And I
feel this passion keepscoring and and I feel like, in fact,
(18:55):
the longer I stay in a psych program, my you know,
this seed over becoming a medical doctor who gets rekindled
and I want to go to the medicine field even more.
And so and then I started talking to my advisor
about it. You know, fortunately he's very understandable. He's like, oh,
(19:18):
you know, I totally understand where you come from.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Of course, even mind look bad.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Innocence to the program because they have students left the program.
And I this is not overnight the decision. And because
I so, I enrolled at the SMU into the fourteen
I left even twenty seventeen. But my desire came along
the way, you know, maybe after first year something like that.
(19:44):
And for puture student, and I guess for any student,
you will feel like it's a failure or you will
leave the program. And I struggled with a lot of this.
When I thought about leaving the program. I discussed with
Sarah and my wife Allah, you know, and I discussed
with the other students, as it am I a failure,
like I cannot complete a PhD program, you know, And
(20:07):
so then after thinking and planning, and I really realized
that it's not.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
This is another thing. How do you judge success versus failure?
Is really not just based on what society tells you.
Because society will tell you, oh, you have to get
to the degrees. Otherwise if you leave, if you're quitting
rather like a quitter, and it's a bad thing. But
you also have to realize why you leave certain things
(20:35):
and it's all because if you're pursuing something you're truly
passionate about and then you have to do it's maybe
sometimes under social pressure. And so as a result, I
decided that I will.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Leave the program.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So I told them my supervisor, my advisor at the
SEME program, and we have long conversation and of course
he understood where I'm from and at the same time
and he I think he might be a little bit
disappointed that he lost a student, right because I left
and I'm his only student. I mean he's a first
(21:11):
student and only student. Oh yes, But I realized how
important to choose things is, like, you know, making a decision,
Making a decision is very important.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They're gonna talk about that too.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So so I left the program at SMU and then
I started my preparation from med school. So from twenty seventeen,
all the way, you know, taking MCAT, taking all the
progrec with the class, shadowing doctors, doing volunteering, and doing
research because going to med school is a different journey.
And you know, eventually this year I got accepted as
(21:50):
a ceremal med school. I haven't decided which one to go,
but yeah, that's my journey. And I think it feels
very good. I tell this, it feels good. It's because
it feels like can eventually go from plan B to PA.
You know, we would go from P, but I can
go back. So a couple of lessons I learned along
the way. And the first one is, so there's an idiom.
(22:12):
There's an idiot called a saibon Schma in Chinese.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It's basically about the.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Story is an Asian story where a guy he so
he bought a horse. Okay, he bought a horse. And
so he bought a horse, and the first day after
he got it, the horse disappeared, like got lost. And
his neighbors are like, oh, it's so unlucky.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It's unfortunately. You just got this a horse and you
lost it. He said, who.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Knows whether it's a good thing or bad thing? Right,
even though everybody thinks a bad thing, he said, we
don't know. And several days later, this a horse brought
more horses, baby horses back and the so you know,
it turns out to be a good thing. And so
all the neighbors came and said, oh, you know, is
such a good thing that even though he lost his horse,
(23:02):
but they brought more new horses, and he said, who
knows good or bad?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And so serve.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Days later, his son was riding one horse and then
he failed from the horse and he broke his leg
because those young horses are kind of hard to control.
And again all the neighbors came to, oh, we're so
sorry that you know, your son is riding the horse
and broke his leg. And he said, who knows it's
good or bad? You know, even though it looks.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Bad, broke the leg right and SERVI.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Days later, the government is recruiting, you know, soldiers and
enlist in people. But because some had broken leg, he
cannot go to the army and he was not enlisted.
And later they found out, you know, most of the
people who were enlisted died at the at the war.
So the moral story is to say, like, sometimes we
(23:57):
might perceive things that is not good, but it's really
not necessarily if you look at the things in the
long term.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
That's the first lesson learned.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And second thing learned is is making a conscious choice
and making decisions is very important. You know, some people
like to say this life is from B to D
right from burst D B twod but but that, but
but I think it's alwast important that life is from
B to C to D. C means choice and you
(24:29):
have to make a lot of choice along the way. Yes,
and you know, I know, I make a choice to
come to America for study psychology. I made a choice
to leave SMU, leave uage and then made a choice
to pursue medicool. And you know, a long time ago
read the lesson. It talks about how the word decide,
(24:50):
you know, like make decision, decide, decide. You know, the
root of the world is very profound if you think
about it. So side means to kill, right like past
the side or homicide or suicide the side the base
means to kill and which means deciding means you actually
you literally kill all the other options available for you.
So you have to make it very serious. And so yeah,
(25:13):
so I think why should always be conscious of how
they make decisions and the choices, because it matters. And
you have to be flexible. Sometimes you cannot reach you
go overnight, but if you're persistent and if you are flexible,
and I think eventually you can get it there.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Love it, love it, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Life may be short, but it is deep and it
is wide. Sometimes, in a desperation to cut a straight
path from A to B, we stall. Then we missed
the breath and the depth of what life has to offer.
What about you? What do you do when life gets
(26:03):
in the way of plans? You are on the journey
and my guest is rating.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I'm back with Ray.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
So Ray, how do you make decisions?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
That's a good question. Decision making is an every easy thing.
So what I normally do is, well, this is my
one of my habits.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I like to keep journaling.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So I do journaling almost a couple times a week,
and normally it's very short. It doesn't have been like
a long diaries. But I normally write down what mistakes
I made throughout this week, or what lessons I learned,
And of course sometimes I even write down, oh, I
observed somebody did something very good, and I said, you
(26:55):
know what, I should do that in the future too.
So I think, because there again there are the Chinese
saying is since the best memory is worse than the
worst pencil, I mean, so the best memory is worse
than the worst pencil. MENI you have to always write
(27:15):
things down, Burulam beto. Yeah, that's what a Chinese saying,
because you know, we did to forget things all the time.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You know, I was looking at my day with the
other day.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I started this process back in when I was in
college to some intent to some ni ish and whoa,
I didn't know I would do things like that, you
know or this, But now I realized how much I've changed.
So you will know your weakness and your strength by
documenting by writing down things. And another happy to have,
(27:47):
which is a similar along the lines, is you know
people like to make New year resolutions, right, but I
don't make a new versions.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I tend to make end of a year reflections.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
So I would go back and look at what I
have accomplished or haven't accomplished throughout this year and at
the end of a year to reflect. Now back to
the question by mechanizations, So I think a step one
is you have to, like the you know the old
Greek saying, know thyself, right, you have to really know
who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You have to know why you're doing certain things.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Sometimes I think we do certain things because of social pressure,
because of peer pressure, because parental pressure, and if you
do things out of those pressure, sometimes maybe it's inevitable
but you really have to realize that what can you
do to change that? Nobody can live under that pressure permanently.
(28:43):
Eventually you want to give up. So makingization is know
first one, and the second one is you have to
really comes out other people.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
The Journey is available free on iTunes, blog talk radio,
REO Sports Radio, and several of your internet platforms, downloading,
bed and share, why, any of the social media you.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Love well, Ray, as you know, it's a joy having
you on the Journey.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm glad that you were able to share your journey
with us.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
Is there if anyone wants to get in touch with you?
How can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
And people can reach me through my email address. My
email is artists twenty six at a gmail dot com
and misspelled as its r T, which is short for
my initial rt I s T. So it's artist twenty
six at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Ray and I are off to play a number of
our games. You're welcome to join us on the Journey's platform.
That web address is the Journey dot ryosports dot com.
Ryo Sports is spelt r y O s p O
r t s dot com. Click on games we play
(30:08):
they will be back with us next week to share
transformative wisdom from his journey. See you next week.
You know, some people like I say this life is
from B to D, right from birds to death. But
B two D.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
But they said, but I think it's alwast important that
life is from B to C to D. The C
means choice and you have to make a lot of
choice along the way. Yes, And you know, a long
time I got read the lesson. It talks about how
the word decide, you know, like make decision, decide, decide.
You know, the root of the world is very profound
(00:28):
if you think about it. So side means to kill, right,
like a pesticide or homicide or suicide. The side the
basicly means to kill, and which means decide. It means
you actually you literally kill all the other options available
for you. So you have to make it very serious
and so yeah, so I think one should always be
conscious of how they make decisions and the choices because
(00:50):
it matters.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Hello and welcome to the Journey your radio show hosted
by Nevil d Angelou, author of a sound Bite Life
and Flight of the Views Monkeys, a PR Emerging Technologies
Forum keynote speaker and founder of RIO Sports. I am
Joseph Ellison, Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I am Mabel our guest is the delightful and insightful
Ray Tang. I know Ray for several years now, first
as his coach. Equally, he has come to be a
wonderful friend, a deep thinker who's prudent and though I
(01:33):
was privy to his transition from bachelor to husband, and
I'm privileged to enjoy the welcome and company of his
charming wife, doctor Sarah Tang. Both Ray and Sarah are
particularly adept at creating sustainable cross cultural communities with an
(01:55):
inspirational diversity, inclusive across academic and social spectra. So I
get to enjoy lots of wonderful moments in great company
in my practice as well as through engagements and explorations,
(02:16):
many explorations, I get to wrestle with lots of muscular
questions that require action for resolution. And you know the
feeling you get when you find that answer, That aha,
that satisfaction at a resolution, a sense of growth. Yes, yes, yes,
(02:37):
I got it, only to discover weeks later, Oops, there
is so much more. Well, Truly, we don't know what
we don't know? Isn't life exciting? Then there are questions
(02:58):
that surface repeatedly like boomerangs around our globe questions around
passion and calling and education and career, that elusive search
for a one size fits all quick fix, that reverberating
(03:20):
I try that.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What's next?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
In times like these, perhaps it's good to take a
deep breath, look deep within and listen, really listen to
the story. The story what Isabella Allende calls that which
(03:43):
is truer than truth. It is for this reason that
I have invited Ray to share a portion of his story,
his academic journey with us. I'll be right back with
rate ang.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Along the journey, we stop at intriguing places and meet
fascinating people with novel solutions to some of life's tricky questions.
And we play a few games and track the remarkable
characters of three classic books A SoundBite Life, Flight of
the Fused Monkeys, and ill A Set A Time to
Begin Again, all of which can be found on Amazon
(04:27):
and Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Welcome to the journey, Thank you, Nevill, Thank you for
having having me. I really appreciate this opportunity to share here.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But you have a beautiful story, and I think the
audience would love to hear it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Talk to us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Sure, yeah, so, I think one thing I want to
talk about is my academic journey. You know, as Asian
parents are always focusing a lot on their kids' education,
and I think my education journey is not traditional, but
it's definitely unique enough. I think hopefully, I hope can
inspire people of your audience, so as most Chinese students.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So I went to college in.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
China, and at that time, I don't know exactly what
major to pursue. So in China you have decided your
major right after high school, so before entering college, you
really have to declare your major. And for a while,
I was like, hmm, I know, I like science and
I like, you know, figure out mechanisms and puzzles. So
(05:32):
my parents suggest why not you just choose engineering, like
electronic engineering, you know, civil engineering, And I thought engineering
sounds like great deal because it doesn't help, you know,
solve problems.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So I chose engineering.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I listened to their voice, just like I think in
fact a lot of Chinesemen might do that too. Is
sometimes just listen to the parents' suggestions. So I went
to college and then after the first semester, I realized
I really really hate I really hate you check engineering,
and I just realized, even though the science, even though
(06:08):
it's mechanism figure on the mechanism of things, I don't
like it because it doesn't involve any human interaction. And
I realized that's the first time that actually my passion
lies in the human interaction aspect.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And however, in China, changing major is not always an
easy thing.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Unlike here, you can keep changing majors, but in China
you actually have to be the TOPI.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
At least at my university.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
University, you have to the top of five of your
class to change major later, which means you have really
good at your Yes, it'll be really good at your
academic work before you can leave that work, which you
don't make sense, but that's how the policy was. So
as a result, I studied super hard and eventually I
(06:56):
didn't end up in top of five, so I switched
my major. But before switching my major, I was thinking
what major should I switch to. I know I don't
like engineering, but I want to find something that I
truly enjoy. So I started this exploration of finding my
path and finding.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Where my niche is in this world.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And I realized I like medicine, and you know, medical
or knowledge. I also like natural sciences that involved in
human interactions, like I mentioned earlier. So as a result,
I think maybe psychology can work best because medicine, I'm
like a here again. Medical school is also you have
(07:40):
to go to right after high school, so once you're
in college, you actually don't have any chance to switch
to medicine anymore, which is actually real don't want to do.
So as a result, I think, you know, I would
just switch to psychology clinical psychology, which is great show,
which is a great program where I can still inter
acted with the human beings and I can deal with
(08:03):
those natural sciences and human sciences. So that's how I
started this exploration. However, at my university there's even no
psych major. There's no psychological major. Yes, so it's I
felt very frustrated. I know, this is a very difficult
time for me. When I was a freshman as sophomore,
and the only option is they had a grad school
(08:25):
in psychology, but they are not open to undergrad students,
and they they also it's not something that that I
can easily get into. But I realized fortunately I had
an advisor when I was in the engineering program that she's
very supportive and she always told me that Ray, you
(08:47):
should always pursue what your true passion is, even the
society might tell you, you know, be an engineer, or
be a businessman. Those you know, glamorous majors or those
major man make a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know, put in a comfortable zone.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
But if that's not where your true passion is, you
actually will suffware in a long term. So and so
I met with her regularly, and so she always encouraged me.
And then my decision was, okay, I will change to
English major.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So this is my thought process.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It was something very crazy. So the only option that
is I change to English major. And my advisor actually
through another psychology professor. Even though we don't have a
psycho major, there are a lot of psychology classes, so
talk to several psycho professors too. They told me change
to English major to improve your English because later you
(09:43):
can go to America or UK, you know, those English
speaking countries, study clinical psychology as your grad degree, and
you need a very good English to communicate with patients.
And maybe then through that past you can achieve your dream.
And I think that totally makes sense and it is
very natural path at that time for me. At the
(10:04):
same time, I know it's vervey counterintuitive and not what
my parents expected. So I went back till then my
plan and they think I was just crazy basically because
they're like, who, why did you even change major English?
And you know, being engineering is such an easy and
(10:25):
it's a very profitable job in China.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
But I told it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Then, I said, you know, this is really where my
passion is, and they didn't quite understand me. So they're like, okay,
just well, if you decide to choose this path, you
have to know then you have the also bear the consequence,
which means later you might find yourself unemployed off the graduation,
because what if you cannot go to America or UK
(10:49):
and what if you cannot find a job because as
an English major student it's not easy to find a
job either, because everybody is good at English two different degrees,
so as an English major student alone, you don't have
a unique advantage. However, I still want to persist this path,
so I tried my best. So what I did is
(11:12):
when I was so, I switched because my top GPA
in the engineering field, so I switched maj to English,
and so I started, of course finish my English classes
but at the same time, I started taking all the
psych classes possible. I contact all the professors I know
at my school, psych professors and even other professors at
(11:33):
another school in Chandu where I used to go to college.
And so I shadowed a lot of professors, a lot
of doctors, and I think I will prepare myself and
then start applying for grad school here in America. I
don't know what we know, but a clinical psychology PhD
program is very y, very competitive in America. The admission
(11:57):
rate normally is about five percent, and so I actually
didn't know this much until later when I start preparing
to apply, I realized it's a super competitive program, and
I felt I said, oh my gosh, what if I
cannot go because it is very competitive. I applied to
(12:19):
Let me think this was back in two sevent eleven,
I applied to about a twenty five grad pitched programs
in psychology. By the way, the reason I applied to
PhD direct me is because in order to become a psychologist,
you have to have a PhD degree and hours to
provide a funding, which is great. So so yeah, so
(12:40):
that's my plan. But you know, once I apply and
one letter of rejection off another is very disappointing and
very frustrating. And even yeah, they didn't even offer me
interview one from another and so I only got an
interview from two schools two out of twenty five apply.
(13:03):
But also, as you know, I also believe in God,
and I think, you know, if this is a path
that I was called to, and then you know, I
know there will be a chance. So such the same time,
you know, in addition to pray, I always wonder like
what else can I do to better prepare myself? And
so I count to a lot of students that I
know in trying to remember this has still in China,
(13:26):
so without without having any resources here, the shadowing the
American doctors. So I signed up for a lot of
newsletters and stuff in China at the time. Whenever there're
the psychologists, American psychologists come to China, can do, I will.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Go admit them.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And so eventually there was one American psychologist came to
my city and quickly winter and I talked with her
and actually later even asked her to writing a letter
of recommendation. But I kind of talk with her and
shadow her because she's doing some clinical practice there so
eventually I got admitted to one school, yes, which is
(14:05):
totally surprised to me because they later told me they
admitted to ten students out of two hundred and fifty students,
and I'm the only international students. In fact, I was
the first international student. And so that's how I ended
up in my first program, which the University of Houston
Clinger Psychology.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So after staying.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
There for a while for first year, my advisor left
the program, so after the first year. So sometimes that's
why later, you know, I want to talk about how
sometimes you can plan everything, but I think life does
not always go the way you wanted, and you have
to be very flexible about it. So so my advisor
left a program, and you know, for PhD programs, the
(14:49):
purpose is to go there for your advisor. If your
advisor leaves the program, then Kendall left, you can look
disoriented and one I'm supposed to hear or the program
was very very understand me, and they were like, how
about you started with a different faculty there whose research
interests might don't match my at all, or I can
(15:13):
just transfer to a different programs. So I thought about
it and prayed about it, and then I just again
consult a lot of people. I think that's another advice
I learned is you should always consult a lot of
people to get the expertise, because when you look at
an issue by yourself, it's very limited, right, But when
(15:33):
you talk to people who have gone through this path,
they are definitely more knowledgeable and then they can.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Point to different directions for you. So that's how I started.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So I talked to my faculty, my other faculty at
the University of Houston, and so most soon suggested maybe
switch a program, because if you want to stay in
this field for a long term, you need some mentor
to guide you. This a long way, not just staying
here without any people giving you directions.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So as a.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Result, I start to have to considering different school to transfer,
and transferring program is also not easy because basically it's
like a great applications you reapply to different school and
I of course this might now sound very easy, but
I was very, very devastated at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I was why I came here, for why my advisor left.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
But again, you know, there are a lot of things
I think happened in my life.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I know that it might not look the way I
want it to be.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But I know that God ls a purpose and I
know that it did not necessarily turn out to be
a bad things. And so as a result, I talked
to my advisor and finally, so I worked in a different
research lab in the meantime, and so I realized that
my PM, my principal investigation, the lab director, she actually
(17:02):
knows a different faculty that she's a good friend with
who works at SMU Southern Message University in Dallas, and
his research interest is much in mind. So I as
all perfect and as at least I can you know,
at least she pointed me to someone, and so so
(17:23):
she pointed me to him, and then I started contacting
him and email him, and.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He showed interest in my research work too.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So I applied to s M and I also applied
to another three or four university because at that time
it's a little bit late already too in the application season.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And it's also.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Limited now because now I have a kind of research
field and I kindot just run them apply to any
programs in the US. So as a result, I applied
to those five programs and interviewed and some of them,
and eventually the faculty the professor at the SMU took me.
So I successfully transferred to SMU and came to Dallas,
(18:11):
and which is a very interesting journey because after coming
to Dallas, you know, I met a lot of people
and made the new friends me and my wife here too.
So so, like I said, it's not a bad thing
when you look backwards, but you when you are in
that period, sometimes you can be very you know, frustrating,
and it can be you can feel very desperate. You
(18:31):
feel like why things don't go the way I want
it to be. So after staying the program for a
while at the pH D, I really enjoyed doing researching
with this faculty. But again, you know, my initial goal
a long time ago one one one was in high school,
is I really want to become medical doctor. And I
feel this passion keepscoring and and I feel like, in fact,
(18:55):
the longer I stay in a psych program, my you know,
this seed over becoming a medical doctor who gets rekindled
and I want to go to the medicine field even more.
And so and then I started talking to my advisor
about it. You know, fortunately he's very understandable. He's like, oh,
(19:18):
you know, I totally understand where you come from.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Of course, even mind look bad.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Innocence to the program because they have students left the program.
And I this is not overnight the decision. And because
I so, I enrolled at the SMU into the fourteen
I left even twenty seventeen. But my desire came along
the way, you know, maybe after first year something like that.
(19:44):
And for puture student, and I guess for any student,
you will feel like it's a failure or you will
leave the program. And I struggled with a lot of this.
When I thought about leaving the program. I discussed with
Sarah and my wife Allah, you know, and I discussed
with the other students, as it am I a failure,
like I cannot complete a PhD program, you know, And
(20:07):
so then after thinking and planning, and I really realized
that it's not.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
This is another thing. How do you judge success versus failure?
Is really not just based on what society tells you.
Because society will tell you, oh, you have to get
to the degrees. Otherwise if you leave, if you're quitting
rather like a quitter, and it's a bad thing. But
you also have to realize why you leave certain things
(20:35):
and it's all because if you're pursuing something you're truly
passionate about and then you have to do it's maybe
sometimes under social pressure. And so as a result, I
decided that I will.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Leave the program.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So I told them my supervisor, my advisor at the
SEME program, and we have long conversation and of course
he understood where I'm from and at the same time
and he I think he might be a little bit
disappointed that he lost a student, right because I left
and I'm his only student. I mean he's a first
(21:11):
student and only student. Oh yes, But I realized how
important to choose things is, like, you know, making a decision,
Making a decision is very important.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They're gonna talk about that too.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So so I left the program at SMU and then
I started my preparation from med school. So from twenty seventeen,
all the way, you know, taking MCAT, taking all the
progrec with the class, shadowing doctors, doing volunteering, and doing
research because going to med school is a different journey.
And you know, eventually this year I got accepted as
(21:50):
a ceremal med school. I haven't decided which one to go,
but yeah, that's my journey. And I think it feels
very good. I tell this, it feels good. It's because
it feels like can eventually go from plan B to PA.
You know, we would go from P, but I can
go back. So a couple of lessons I learned along
the way. And the first one is, so there's an idiom.
(22:12):
There's an idiot called a saibon Schma in Chinese.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It's basically about the.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Story is an Asian story where a guy he so
he bought a horse. Okay, he bought a horse. And
so he bought a horse, and the first day after
he got it, the horse disappeared, like got lost. And
his neighbors are like, oh, it's so unlucky.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It's unfortunately. You just got this a horse and you
lost it. He said, who.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Knows whether it's a good thing or bad thing? Right,
even though everybody thinks a bad thing, he said, we
don't know. And several days later, this a horse brought
more horses, baby horses back and the so you know,
it turns out to be a good thing. And so
all the neighbors came and said, oh, you know, is
such a good thing that even though he lost his horse,
(23:02):
but they brought more new horses, and he said, who
knows good or bad?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And so serve.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Days later, his son was riding one horse and then
he failed from the horse and he broke his leg
because those young horses are kind of hard to control.
And again all the neighbors came to, oh, we're so
sorry that you know, your son is riding the horse
and broke his leg. And he said, who knows it's
good or bad? You know, even though it looks.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Bad, broke the leg right and SERVI.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Days later, the government is recruiting, you know, soldiers and
enlist in people. But because some had broken leg, he
cannot go to the army and he was not enlisted.
And later they found out, you know, most of the
people who were enlisted died at the at the war.
So the moral story is to say, like, sometimes we
(23:57):
might perceive things that is not good, but it's really
not necessarily if you look at the things in the
long term.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
That's the first lesson learned.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And second thing learned is is making a conscious choice
and making decisions is very important. You know, some people
like to say this life is from B to D
right from burst D B twod but but that, but
but I think it's alwast important that life is from
B to C to D. C means choice and you
(24:29):
have to make a lot of choice along the way. Yes,
and you know, I know, I make a choice to
come to America for study psychology. I made a choice
to leave SMU, leave uage and then made a choice
to pursue medicool. And you know, a long time ago
read the lesson. It talks about how the word decide,
(24:50):
you know, like make decision, decide, decide. You know, the
root of the world is very profound if you think
about it. So side means to kill, right like past
the side or homicide or suicide the side the base
means to kill and which means deciding means you actually
you literally kill all the other options available for you.
So you have to make it very serious. And so yeah,
(25:13):
so I think why should always be conscious of how
they make decisions and the choices, because it matters. And
you have to be flexible. Sometimes you cannot reach you
go overnight, but if you're persistent and if you are flexible,
and I think eventually you can get it there.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Love it, love it, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Life may be short, but it is deep and it
is wide. Sometimes, in a desperation to cut a straight
path from A to B, we stall. Then we missed
the breath and the depth of what life has to offer.
What about you? What do you do when life gets
(26:03):
in the way of plans? You are on the journey
and my guest is rating.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I'm back with Ray.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
So Ray, how do you make decisions?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
That's a good question. Decision making is an every easy thing.
So what I normally do is, well, this is my
one of my habits.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I like to keep journaling.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So I do journaling almost a couple times a week,
and normally it's very short. It doesn't have been like
a long diaries. But I normally write down what mistakes
I made throughout this week, or what lessons I learned,
And of course sometimes I even write down, oh, I
observed somebody did something very good, and I said, you
(26:55):
know what, I should do that in the future too.
So I think, because there again there are the Chinese
saying is since the best memory is worse than the
worst pencil, I mean, so the best memory is worse
than the worst pencil. MENI you have to always write
(27:15):
things down, Burulam beto. Yeah, that's what a Chinese saying,
because you know, we did to forget things all the time.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You know, I was looking at my day with the
other day.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I started this process back in when I was in
college to some intent to some ni ish and whoa,
I didn't know I would do things like that, you
know or this, But now I realized how much I've changed.
So you will know your weakness and your strength by
documenting by writing down things. And another happy to have,
(27:47):
which is a similar along the lines, is you know
people like to make New year resolutions, right, but I
don't make a new versions.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I tend to make end of a year reflections.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
So I would go back and look at what I
have accomplished or haven't accomplished throughout this year and at
the end of a year to reflect. Now back to
the question by mechanizations, So I think a step one
is you have to, like the you know the old
Greek saying, know thyself, right, you have to really know
who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You have to know why you're doing certain things.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Sometimes I think we do certain things because of social pressure,
because of peer pressure, because parental pressure, and if you
do things out of those pressure, sometimes maybe it's inevitable
but you really have to realize that what can you
do to change that? Nobody can live under that pressure permanently.
(28:43):
Eventually you want to give up. So makingization is know
first one, and the second one is you have to
really comes out other people.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
The Journey is available free on iTunes, blog talk radio,
REO Sports Radio, and several of your internet platforms, downloading,
bed and share, why, any of the social media you.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Love well, Ray, as you know, it's a joy having
you on the Journey.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm glad that you were able to share your journey
with us.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
Is there if anyone wants to get in touch with you?
How can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
And people can reach me through my email address. My
email is artists twenty six at a gmail dot com
and misspelled as its r T, which is short for
my initial rt I s T. So it's artist twenty
six at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Ray and I are off to play a number of
our games. You're welcome to join us on the Journey's platform.
That web address is the Journey dot ryosports dot com.
Ryo Sports is spelt r y O s p O
r t s dot com. Click on games we play
(30:08):
they will be back with us next week to share
transformative wisdom from his journey. See you next week.
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