David Weiner on what NBA’s new CBA means for the Rockets

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome toThe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety. The lagger Line.
It's proudly served to you by CarboxClutch City lagger It is good. Oh
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lagger Line starts now. Welcome onboard, Welcome in to another new episode of
the logger Line, as always servedto you Kersey Off Clutch, Clagger Off,
car Back Brewing. I'm your host, Ben Dubos, editor of USA

(00:48):
Today's Rocket Squire, a contributor toSports Talks seven ninety, the official flagship
radio station of your Houston Rockets.Joined time a good friend. Co hosting
producer out of Portugal, Paolo AlvesPolow. What's going on, man name,
Everything's good other than apparent rumors ofRocket signing. Dylan Brooks, everything's
going well. We'll get into that. We're going to do a lot more

(01:10):
off season focus today for a fewreasons. First off, there's nothing new
on the Rockets circuit until the Maysixteenth draft lottery. They are bringing in
a few draft prospects, but notreally any of the names that most fans
will recognize. Because most of thebig names Victor wimpan Yama, Scoot Henderson
that tier, they're waiting to scheduletheir workouts until after the draft lottery because

(01:32):
Swiler alert Wemby is not going towork out for a team that's drafting fifth,
they're six. They're waiting to seewho's going to be at the top
of that draft lottery. Hopefully it'sthe Rockets. And so now the Houston
has made its head coaching hard withEmay Udoka, and obviously the Rockets are
not in the playoffs. There otherthan a few draft workouts here or there,
they're largely waiting around like the restof us. There are interviews going

(01:53):
on for Udoka's staff of assistance,but I think Emay is in no particular
rush to fill those. The Rocketsaren't. Are they going to have any
true game activity until closer to thedraft, And of course they're going to
get ready for the Las Vegas SummerLeague, so ema Ujoka will want to
have some of his assistants by then. Typically an assistant coaches the summer league
team, But right now he cango through his interview process for those assistants

(02:15):
and the Rockets can just watch theplayoffs with the rest of us as they
wait for the draft combine in aboutten days, followed by the lottery that
Tuesday night in Chicago. You cancheck out our archives where we just had
a show with Clay Allen, generalcounsel of the Rockets. Who will be
in the room for that night hashtagpray for Victor Anyway to get back to

(02:37):
the offseason focus, Who've got oneof my favorite offseason, big picture Rockets
guys on our show today. Youknow him best as beam Thogue on Twitter.
His real name, of course,David Wiener. You may also know
him as assistant to the journal manager, that being rothfel Stone. David,
thanks for taking the time. Howare you doing great? Ben and Paula?
Thanks for having me. Yeah,and we're gonna be talking to you

(02:58):
today. Well. I always lovetalking to you about offseason topics because this
is your wheelhouse. You are greatat the business of basketball. But we
also have a new collective bargaining agreementwith the MBA to dive into with regards
to specifically the implications for the Rocketsand what it means for team building both
this offseason and beyond. I've beenwanting to do this show for weeks now

(03:19):
because the NBA at the end ofMarch, that's when they officially agreed to
the new CBA. But there's beenso much breaking news with the Rockets,
the season ending, than the coachingsearch, than the higher of emay Udoka,
that we've put it on pause.Now that we're in this brief hiatus
of offseason activity, it's a goodtime to have a bigger picture episode,
and so that's what we're going tobe doing with David Wiener today again.

(03:40):
Bmthog on Twitter, unofficially assistant tothe journal manager of the Houston Rockets,
David. Before we get into theCBA nitty gritty, I want to start
with your thoughts on the process thatled to emay Udoka. Are you pleased
with the way the coaching search went? What are your thoughts heading into this
call off season in which the Rocketsobviously have sixty million dollars give or taken

(04:03):
salary cap room. It's the lastsummer they controlled their draft pick for a
while, so it's a huge pivotpoint for the franchise. They just named
a new coach. Where are youat in sorts of your thirty thousand foot
view of the franchise right now.Well, I mean, this is the
time we've all been waiting for forthe last two and a half years.
We were we were all looking tothe summer of twenty twenty three when we're

(04:23):
going to have the cap room,roster flexibility. And unfortunately Stephen Silas didn't
work out in Houston. But youknow, Emoodoka I think was a terrific
hire that the only question about himobviously was the scandal that ended his tenure
in Boston, and for me fromthe beginning, that was obviously a big

(04:44):
impediment. But if the parties couldget comfortable with everything and have you know,
not necessarily assurances, but but asignificant enough comfort level that that was
not going to create ongoing problems,then Udoka was easily top of the list
for me. So I'm glad everyonegot comfortable. You know, I'm sure
there's work to be done on thatfront going forward, but purely as a

(05:09):
coach, as a leader, asa motivator, as someone that's going to
hold players accountable. Very thrilled withthe Udoka higher. I think one way
the Udoka hire has been even betterthan I imagined going in has been watching
the response around the league. Youcan tell that players other coaches really respect

(05:30):
this higher and he brings a sortof credibility to the Rockets that the last
couple of years it's felt like theylacked. Were the first time head coach
and Steven Silas and a first timeGM and Raphael Stone. Neither one of
them has done it at the highestlevel before in those chairs. So to
have someone who was just in theNBA Finals a year ago and carries that
type of presence and respect, it'sa big deal. And I've actually been

(05:55):
thinking about it a little bit inthe context of free agency, because David,
we had to back and forth onTwitter the day when you were asking
me if I would give James Hardenthe MAX this offseason, not just in
terms of financial money for next season, but in terms of years as well,
basically a four year, two hundredmillion dollars deal, give or take.
And the reason I've largely been insupport of that for months, going

(06:16):
back to really Christmas, which iswhen the rumor mill kicked up in overdrive
regarding Harden and the Rockets in apotential reunion, is this idea that even
if year four and maybe year threeare on overpay, that beyond what Harden
can give you the next couple ofyears as a floor general, the NBA's
assists leader, his basketball values inthe short term, that even if he

(06:39):
ages poorly into his age thirty sixand age thirty seven seasons, it might
be worth it because the Rockets havebeen so bad that the instant credibility you
get from signing James Harden, thatinstant jolt back to relevancy and not having
to worry about being a perpetual rebuildlike the Kings until the last few years
or the Timberwolves the Jimmy Utler year, notwithstanding, have been over the past

(07:02):
decade or so. With the emailUdoka higher, that gives me a much
higher degree of confidence in the floorof this team moving forward. And while
I'm not moving off James Harden,I'm not doing anything crazy, it might
make me a bit more willing todraw a slightly harder line in negotiations in

(07:24):
terms of, yeah, maybe I'llgive you three years at the max,
but that fourth year needs to bea team option because with Udoka, the
value of the hardened credibility angle andthe jolt back to relevancy. I don't
know if you need that quite asmuch as you did before this higher because
it feels like with Emay Udoka,perhaps I'm drinking the kool aid a bit
too much, but it feels likewith the connections he has, the respect

(07:47):
he carries, I'm much more okaywith the floor scenarios of if you don't
get James Harden and if this offseasonis simply adding role players, maybe not,
Dylan Bronks, I know Paulo hason that, but it's made me
a bit more comfortable in no matterwhat, they have a process forward that

(08:07):
can work. David, does thatmakes sense to you, this idea that
now that you've invested heavily and you'vegot a big name coach, maybe it
gives you a bit more flexibility headinginto the offseason. Yeah, no,
I agree with that. Ben,you mentioned the credibility factor that I think
Udoga gives you more credibility than someof the other choices would have. And

(08:28):
yeah, Harden, I'm in favorof hardening a vacuum, not so much
four years full max and I generallyagree with your sentiment that if it gives
you a little more leverage, youmight lose them. But still with the
organization has already gained a significant amountof credibility with the coaching higher. Yeah,
I think about the Adolga stuff,something that I didn't say last Bob,

(08:50):
then when we talked about it,that I that I really feel now
after the Breath conference and in allof the interviews that they gave that they
gave to multiple media output, itreally feels like Raphael Stone and Emayudoka are
a team. It really feels likeUdoka is going to have a big saying
and how the front off is goingto act and what Who knows how much

(09:11):
impact Raphael will have and when whatthe team will do. But every time
they talk, it just seemed tobe in perfect alignment. And they always
talk about it as a partnership,which makes me wonder how much of now
that that's the dynamic, how muchof that was what Stone intended to do
with Stephen Silence that just ended upnot happening, And then all of the

(09:35):
meddling stuff came around and all ofthose news It makes me think that perhaps
this is what Stone wanted with Silence, but it just didn't work out.
And now when they got Udoka,and this is a guy that very much
aligns with Raphaelstone's principles, defense first, versatility, everything like that. And
so when just one of my quickbiggest takeaways from everything we've heard about Udoka

(09:58):
since since our last pot is thatit really feels like this is a team
and that they're then they're going tobuild together and then he's going to be
a big voice in the room inwhatever moves they make. And I like
it because this is one of thetop coaches on the market. He is
still very young. He could bea franchise coach like Papavit is, like
Supposter is if it works out well. He's young enough, he's clearly good

(10:20):
enough. I mean, how oftendoes a coach that was in the finals
a year ago join the team thathas the worst record in the league.
If you can't if you combine thelast three years. So I think it's
an investment. I think it's agood thing and I think it's a good
investment by the franchise on in Udoka, both from what the encore product Cook
Club looks like and how we canhe can influence the team building, the

(10:43):
team building part of it, whichI think he will based on everything we've
her. I also think and Davidcan jump jump in on this angle if
he wants. I think it buysa lot of good will with the fan
base because there's been these whispers formonths. It's rathhaul Stone too enamored with
Kevin Porter Jr. I know Paulo'sgot strong feelings on Dylan Brooks. I

(11:05):
think whatever this roster ends up lookinglike heading into training camp, I'm not
saying that you need to be abig believer personally in everyone that's on the
roster, but I think one thingthat should be good is that it sort
of turns the page on whether therewas dysfunction or not the last couple of
seasons, this idea that something's off, because at this point, email Udoka

(11:30):
had options. There's the Toronto jobthat's opened, Milwaukee just opened up today.
He could have waited around the sameway that Quinn Snyder did last offseason
and getting a pretty good gig inAtlanta midway through this season. He did
not have to take this job.So whatever moves the Rockets make or don't
make, it's going to be prettyclear in my opinion that email Udoka is

(11:52):
at least signing off on the directionof this roster, if not fully endorsing
it or suggesting it himself. Andso I think even if the roster isn't
ideal for what we personally would want, I think it will at least be
a lot better than this past seasonwhen there were so many theories thrown out
about Kevin Porter Junior at point guard, and what is Silas is doing,

(12:13):
what is rathfael Stone's doing, andso on and so forth. You may
not like every player on the roster, you may not agree with every move,
but I think for a guy likeUdoka to pick the Rockets, that
should tell you that he's going tobe on board with whatever marquee moves they
make or don't make this summer,and that should, at least in the

(12:33):
honeymoon stage these first few months,that should provide a bit of peace for
Rockets fans. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest takeaway here is
playtime's over. Udoka's the adult inthe room. And whether or not,
like you said, we don't knowif there really was this function or not.
It's all the losses. You kindof lose the benefit of the doubt.

(12:56):
But whether or not there is foolishness, that's over. It's time to
focus and then just the general GMcoach dynamic. Usually the GM is thinking
for the next five to seven yearsand the coach is really thinking about that
season. And you know, Ireally feel for Stephen Silas he thought he

(13:18):
was coaching a contending team with JamesHarden and Russell Westbrook and what he got
was a complete teardown and rebuild.And during those types of phases in an
organization, the coach is not goingto get the players he wants. The
GM is going to be looking longerterm for the rebuild. And what we
have now is we've entered phase two, even as Tilman Fertida has labeled it,

(13:41):
where the team is not ready towin again, and there's going to
probably be more alignment between the GMand the coach. Like you said,
Udoka is definitely going to have asignificant input on player personnel moves, and
I think that's more appropriate now thanit was a couple of years ago.
Yeah. Absolutely, it really lookslike and and correct me if I'm wrong,

(14:03):
but it really strikes me as thesame thing that's happening with the Texans
where you can and I think it'smore common in the NFL, but it
really seemed like the Miko Ryans hada lot of input in how the draft
went and just and to to toadapt that to the rockets. I mean,
at all, they always seemed likeit was it disconnect between what they
from Rofice wanted to two and whatSileas wanted to do. I mean,

(14:26):
you don't go out and spend twofor strong pigs on a branch ling goon
and then he gets the treatment thathe did for two years running as far
as how he was used, andone and one one last comment that I
wanted to get in to kind ofjustify how why I think that Stone might
have tried to do the same thingwith Silas early on and just ended up
not working out. And then atthat point you're not going to fire go

(14:48):
a year into a reveal at twoyears into a reveal. Do you guys
remember early on, right after thehardened trade? Am I the only person
that remembers the report that the reasonwe went after Victoria Ladip or a part
of it was because Steven Silas wasa really big fan of him. Am
I the only person that that remembersthis. I don't remember the specific report,
but certainly the impetus for picking Oladipowas that he was more of a

(15:15):
win now player. You're higher risk, higher reward, but you were getting
a recent All Star. So it'svery possible that Silas had, you know,
some say in that and maybe thatinfluenced why we went for him.
And I do think he had moreplaymaking potential if he was healthy than Karis
Lavert. We've talked the last coupleof years about not having the hardened slash

(15:37):
Luca type option to really make Silas'soffense work in I suppose the parallel to
what he did with Luca in Dallas. Not that Oladipo in his prime was
that, but Oladipo in his prime, if you could have gotten anywhere near
that, was a lot closer thanKiris Lavert. So yeah, it wouldn't
surprise me if if Silas was onboard with that and that and he wanted

(15:58):
that more than say a high floorbut low ceiling Charis Lavert. And from
Rafel standpoint, it's it's kind ofgives you more flexibility because if he hits
great, If not, he hasan expiring contract instead of Lavert, who
had three years on his deal atthe time. All right, let's transition
to this offseason. Enough about twentytwenty one. We've got much better things

(16:22):
to focus on when it comes tothe current Houston Rockets. And actually,
David, before we start you outwith the specific question, this new CBA
that was agreed to in late Marchand the term sheet just went out,
does it go into effect this offseason? Just explain from a timeline perspective how

(16:42):
this works moving forward. Sure,So, the deal was agreed to in
principle in March. It took quitea while, and for good reason,
to get even a term sheet.While I do not have a copy of
the term sheet, I am itis widely reported that the term sheet,
not the agreement, just the termsheet was ninety one pages long, so

(17:04):
it took some time to put thattogether. The new CBA is still not
technically in place. I believe theside the sides have ratified it in principle,
but the actual language the lawyers stillneed to bang that out. I'm
sure they're working feverishly to get thatdone before the end of June. You

(17:26):
know, I do have a redlineCBA of the twenty seventeen changes and U
that you know in that CBA,aside from introducing the concept of two way
contracts. Not a whole lot changedin this CBA. They are changing a
lot of stuff, so it maytake some time. I'm sure they'll get

(17:48):
it done by by the end ofJune, but it's going to take them
a little while longer to get itbanged out. And as far as when
it goes into effect, so manyof the aspects will go into effect immediately,
And because this is such a radicalchange in so many areas, they
have built into at least the perthe term sheet, they've built in some
phase in on a lot of thesethings that we'll be talking about. Several

(18:11):
of the new concepts are either goingto be phased in or will not be
introduced until twenty four, twenty five, and in some cases twenty five twenty
six. So at a super highlevel when it comes to team building,
I think the summations that I've seencharacterize it as a win for the smaller
market franchises think the Charlotte Horniche UtahJazz, and a bit of a hit

(18:37):
to the big spending, huge marketteams like the Warriors, the Clippers,
the Nets, because, unlike theprevious CBA, when the primary penalty for
going well into luxury tax territory,especially for repeated years, was financial and
a very rich owner could simply say, well, deal with it. I'm

(18:59):
going to spend and by their wayinto consistent contention, the new CBA actually
puts some team building penalties into playin terms of if you're over the tax
by a certain amount for a certainamount of years, then it constrains how
you can actually build your roster movingforward. And that's different because an owner

(19:19):
can't just say, look, here'sa blank checkbook, deal with it.
No, his GM is going tohave to actually balance what spending at that
level would do versus the hit thatit would give to the organization from the
standpoint of how they can fill outtheir roster and the tools they had at
their disposal. So, in termsof how this impacts the rockets, which

(19:40):
is of course what we cover atthe logger line, the rockets, I
would say are somewhere between six andtwelve. That's the range that I've thrown
out in the past for I wouldsay economic health and spending power of the
franchise. They're not at the levelof the Warriors or Lakers or Clippers.

(20:00):
Let's not get crazy and tilman forTida. While a good owner, he
has not shown us that he iswilling to be Steve Balmer. Let's not
get carried away. However, They'realso not the Charlotte Hornets or the Utah
Jazz by any stretch of the imaginationeither. This is a good market,
Tillman Fortida has shown a willingness tospend on a number of things in recent
years, including the new practice facilitiesseventy million dollars. As Tilman let the

(20:23):
secret out at the EMA Ujoka pressconference last week, this is an upper
middle class as suppose you could saylower upper class, but that sounds funky,
so let's go with upper middle classmarket. So David, generally speaking,
for a team like the Rockets that'sin probably the upper half of the
league, but not the very tiptop in terms of their willingness to spend,

(20:48):
is this CBA good, neutral,or bad relative to where they would
have stood under the previous CBA.I think this CBA is very good the
Rockets for all the reasons you explained. And I don't know how granular you
want to go, because this couldgo on for five hours. But jen

(21:11):
more big picture, this CBA isgoing to benefit most the teams that have
relatively cleaner cap sheets don't go abovethe current first apron you know, the
apron level, and it rewards theteams that are a little more judicious with

(21:33):
their roster building and their team salaries, and even rewards teams that go a
little bit into the tax. Theydon't. They're trying to reduce some of
the deterrence from going into the tax. I think teams are still going to
want to avoid it, but thepenalties for being a little bit in the

(21:53):
tax are going to go down inthe new CBA. Okay, So it's
basically easy or to go a littlebit into the tax and spend a bit
more relative to what the Rockets havedone. Of course, we're speaking proportionally
here. Over I suppose their lastcontending window going back to the late twenty
tens and the end of the JamesHarden era, at the beginning of the

(22:14):
Tilben Fautida ownership era, it's abit easier to go a little over the
tax. It's just harder to spendat the Warriors Clippers insane level. That's
basically what you're saying, correct,And I'll just knock this one out that
the moderate taxpayers. They're going toreceive some benefits in this in a couple

(22:37):
of ways. Number one, they'regoing to have more flexibility on salary matching
in trades. It used to beonce you were a dollar over the tax,
the restriction's got a whole lot tighter. If you're above the tax,
below the apron, you can maketrades like you were below the tax.
In the coming years, the lowertax brackets for the luxury tax are actually

(23:00):
going to go down to reward teamswilling to the Union, I think did
a good job negotiating this to rewardteams that are willing to spend, not
go crazy, but willing to spend. Those are really the biggest things that
more flexibility in trades and lower taxbrackets. But the biggest attorn is still

(23:22):
going to be there that you goa dollar into the tax, you don't
get luxury tax distributions, So thatthat's going to be a still a big
impediment, which is why I thinkmost teams are still going to try to
duct the tax. But you know, if you end up three million in
the tax, it's not as badas it would have been under the prior
CYBA. It's very interesting just aquick follow up, those teams that are

(23:45):
a dollar over the tax, arethey still prohibited from doing sigmon traits because
I think that's really irrelevant to everythingwe're going to do. So the way
the current CBA is and that's notchanging in the new one, is if
you were over attacks, but underthe apron, which it will now be
called the first Apron, you canstill do sign and trades. You can
still use the non taxpayer mid level, you can still use Ben's favorite biannual

(24:10):
exception um but Les, Yeah,I think it's gonna stroll me that anyway.
I think the last the last timethey used it was on Tarik Black.
Wow direct Black is the last bayof the Rockets. Jesus, that's
going to be a play. Butso to to to kind of take a

(24:33):
take a grander look out, Sothat was just for the teams in that
that packs line to first apron,the first Apron against for those who are
too familiar with it, it's approximatelyseven million above the tax, and that's
going to change. All of thesethresholds are gonna start growing with the cap,

(24:55):
so as the cat goes up,these threshold amounts are going to grow.
So in you know, five yearsfrom now, that seven million dollar
gap is going to be you know, ten to eleven million um. But
so so the biggest restrictions the PALOkind of indicated there no sign and you
can't acquire a player via sign andtrade. You can't use the non tax
pyramid level, you can't use thebiannual exception. Those are really the only

(25:18):
three things if you were in,if you were above the first apron,
those are the only three things youcouldn't do. Under the new CBA,
They're going to add more things youcan't do. That's that's very interesting.
Yeah, So I want to Iwant to eventually make my way to some
of the more specific obvious because I'mreally intrigued about whatever's knew about about incentive
compensation and special instructs they have somewith cap space, still be in a

(25:41):
position to make use of that,but but starting a little bit smaller.
What are some of the changes whenit comes to the exceptions, the tps,
you know, the one the rocketsare going to have access to the
room MLLE, What change is aboutthose compared to what it was before.
Sure, so salary cap exceptions aregoing to change pretty dramatically, in the

(26:03):
new CBA, the non taxpayer midlevel, which is this past year was
about ten point five million. That'sgoing to jump up to about twelve point
two next year. Which that's thebiggest salary cap exception, you know,
general salary cap exception there is,and that's that's taken a little jump this

(26:26):
year. The exception taking the biggestjump is the room exception, the room
mid level exception. This directly impactsthe Rockets this summer because they're gonna have
caprin. The room mid level exceptionis for teams that are below the cap
want to use their cap room,and this is something they can use in
addition to caproom, rewarding the teamfor managing its cap. That room exception,

(26:48):
which was about five point four millionthis past season, is going to
jump all the way up to sevenpoint six million. It's a huge jump.
And so for the Rockets, theycan use their whole sixty million in
cap and you can't combine it withcaprin, but they can use their whole
sixty million in cap go all theway to the cap, and then on

(27:10):
top of that sign another player upto seven point six million. And then
conversely, so it used to bethe room exception was only for two years,
so it wasn't as good an exceptionas, for instance, the taxpayermid
level, which last year was aboutsix and a half million, and you
could sign a player for three years. So the tax teams actually got rewarded

(27:33):
more than the teams that manage theircap well. So the new CBA flips
the script there, I think,and I agree with this change. They
want to They don't want to punishteams that manage their cap better, they
want to reward them. So basically, the room exception and the taxpayermid level
are going to switch places. Sowhile the room exception went way up and
moved from two years to three years, the tax mid level exception is going

(27:59):
down to five million dollars flat.It'll grow with the CAT, but for
next year five million flat. Andyou can't sign three year deals anymore.
You can only sign two year deals. So they're gonna punish. They're gonna
punish these teams that spend. Sothe player of the Rockets get if fifty
sign them for three years, ofcourse, but they could they could actually

(28:22):
get someone with the room mL andthen at the end of that contract have
bird rights on them to retain them, which was something that they couldn't do
with the old one. Well,because it was just two years, that's
a pretty big deal. I think, Yeah, no, that you're right,
follow it is. I mean,you'd have early bird rights, and
in most cases, anyone you couldget with the room exception, you could
probably afford to get with early bird, but who knows. If the person

(28:44):
just blows up and becomes a star, you wouldn't have full bird rights.
But yeah, you're right, followNow, you'd have full bird rights on
a three year deal. And theyput in perspective in terms that I think
a lot of Rockets fans that aren'tsalary cap nerds like David you know you
are? You call it like yousee it, bet, Yeah, to
put it in terms that fans whoaren't as cap inclined would understand that higher

(29:10):
room exception going to nearly eight milliondollars as a starting salary, you could
theoretically use your sixty million dollars ontwo players like I don't know, hypothetically,
James Harden and Dylan Brooks. Let'sjust throw those out there. I
know the name Dylan Brooks is goingto make hollow recoil. But the Rockets
do need wing defense. He doeshave talent in that regard. He's an

(29:32):
okay shooter if you could somehow improvehis shots selection. Let's just go with
this. I think most Rockets standswould be more okay with Dylan if it
came alongside Hard. You could theoreticallysign both of those guys with your sixty
million dollars, and then with theroom exception, get someone else, like
say a Seth Curry, who isn'tgoing to be cheap enough to sign anywhere
nearer the minimum, but all ofa sudden, a qualified vet like that,

(29:56):
if you could get nearly eight milliondollars, it's a starting salary.
You could be in the ball gamefor now. I'm not necessarily endorsing that
plan because that's three perimeter players.There's no front court guys added to that
mix at all. In reality,the Rockets might want to sign one point
guard, one wing, and onebig ideally and sort of spread the wealth.
But just as examples that come tomind, Seth Curry is a classic

(30:18):
example of someone that you might notcould have gotten without dipping into your salary
cap room before, but with theroom exception, all of a sudden,
he becomes a realistic target, rightabsolutely, And he's one of those guys
I would look the target and theydon't necessarily have to use all of it.
They could split it up and useit on two more players. You
know, Let's say they could getlet's say they could get Curry for six

(30:41):
million. Well then or I shouldn'tsay six Let's say we could get him
for five. Then you could offertwo point six million to somebody else for
three years, where you know,that's more than the minimum you might be
able to get somebody else. ButI mean, Curry's the kind of player
I would be looking at with thatroom exception. Yeah, it's very interesting
because I mean I don't even lookat him as a as a guard versus

(31:03):
a wing verse. I think it'sjust I like him as a different options.
He has. The type of fieldingthat he has and the type of
shots that he can get up issomething that we don't really have on the
roster. And that it's kind ofthe rule that Harrison Matthis used to play
and that our Money Brooks used toplay. That can my fairy well with
Changun. That provides a lot ofwhat Imai Uduka said, like not not
all of your Fleers net Peter inthe wings. It gives you flexibility to

(31:26):
run different types of play, differenttypes of basketball because he is one of
those He is elitea what he does, but he is one of those unique
art types. I mean, Ilove that idea. But moving back to
the cap stuff, because I'm notnot the same extent, but I'm also
a little bit of a capner.Then I'm really interested about Now that we've
talked about the tps and all ofthe exceptions, I want to ask about

(31:51):
what is different when it comes toincentives. And I would guess that he's
outside tied with each other about extensionrules because the rockets that are about to
get in the next few years,they're going to need to do a lot
of extensions. We hope if guyswork out sure so on incentives. And
I need to put a general caveathere that even salary cap nerds much more

(32:14):
knowledgeable than I am, aren't onehundred percent sure how some of these more
complex provisions are going to actually beimplemented. So if I say something that
turns out to be not one hundredpercent correct, please don't hold it against
me. We're going off the bestinterpretations we have based on the ninety one
page term sheet. So one majorchange on incentives is I think they're going

(32:36):
to now cap total compensation or totalincentive compensation at twenty percent of based compensation.
And I know that's a lot ofcomplicated words for most of the listeners,
but basically what that means is nomore KPJ contracts. You can't do
these deals that have heavy, heavyincentive components to them. Most of the

(32:58):
deal needs to be guaranteed and onlytwenty percent total likely and unlikely can be
incentive base. Another thing. Anotherthing is and again it's the I'm gonna
be very interested to see how thelawyers were this in the actual CBA.
They basically made Anna rule. Asyou recall, a couple of years ago,

(33:21):
the Rockets attempted to sign a nayto a beautifully inventive contract that had
heavy incentive compensation issues that if hemade a certain amount this and he counted
for x amounting trade, but thesecond he was traded, he'd go drop
down significantly and what he'd be guaranteed. And it was a beautifully inventive contract.

(33:46):
But the league, and my apologiesto Raffel who I know was behind
was probably heavily behind that contract.I think the league got it right when
they said, look wrong the leadabout this before, Yeah, that you
can't allow this contract because then everyteam's gonna do it on all their contracts

(34:07):
and it's gonna make a complete mockeryof the deals. Now Ben they did,
I won't go to in of theweeks. They did do something very
similar about a year later with DanteExum, and that one passed the muster,
and that one I thought was good. I think even that one may
not be allowed in the new CBA, but I think they learned from their
mistake on the then A one withthe Dante Exum contract. But anyway,

(34:31):
the league basically said Rockets were notgoing to interpret this the way you want
us to interpret it. You're basicallyshut down from getting the advantage you wanted
to get here. And then Ithink they're they're the new CBA is now
going to have a rule put intoit to address the THENA situation. So
you talked about the incentives and themonly being able to be twenty percent.

(34:55):
Does non guarant like does parts ofthe concert like guaranteed dates? Does it
also work for that or yeah,yeah, I'm sorry, I misspoke when
I said it has to be guaranteed. It doesn't have nothing has to be
guaranteed. It's just about incentive basedguarantees. So you can sell non guarantee
yeah, you can sell non guaranteedeals. Yeah. And then then to

(35:15):
answer your question, follow on extensionsthe league. While they haven't completely eliminated
the unintended consequences of uh, youknow, guys that vastly outperform their contract
being able to sign extensions with theirteam versus hitting free agency, they largely
fix the problem by increasing the amountyou can extend for from one hundred to

(35:37):
one hundred twenty percent of your salaryto one hundred and forty percent, and
it's the greater of your prior salaryor the estimated average player salary, So
figure one hundred and forty percent ofthe mid level at least even if you're
making a small salary. They alsorelax some of the extended trade rules.
It used to be you could almostnever do an extended trade because you could

(35:59):
own get a five percent raise.Now they've increased that. You can get
a twenty percent raise and do anextended trade. So that should grease the
skids on maybe a few more extendedtrades over the next few years. And
then, most importantly to the Rockets, they changed extension rules for rookie Scale
players first round pick contracts. Itused to be if you wanted to extend

(36:22):
someone for more than four years,you had to give them the max.
Well, now you can extend anyrookie scale contract for up to five years.
And that's a huge deal for theRockets, especially if Jalen or Jabari
or Tari Easton or Alperty Shangoon isa great player, maybe not quite Max,

(36:45):
but a guy that the franchise wantsto build around long term. This
gives the Rockets the ability to lockthose guys up an extra year. I'm
surprised that that wasn't in place anywhereor already. Yeah. No, it
was just for just for designated designatedMax extensions. Oh simp you mentioned that

(37:07):
is the rule still there that youcan only have I think two of them
on your team. Yeah, itused to be you couldn't have more than
two Rose Rule guys, which arethe Rookie Skille Extension, Matt Supermax Extensions,
plus two Designated Veteran extensions, whichare like the Hart in westbrook John
Wall supermax veteran extensions. They havegotten rid of that. There were too

(37:29):
many unintended consequences. We were alllaughing at Brooklyn last year when they were
looking at Durant trades and they literallycouldn't make half of the good deals out
there because Ben Simmons was on theirroster. That's gone away. No more
limit, no more limit on those. You can have as many as you
want. Now if you end upwith a bunch of them, you're going
to be a second Apron team andyou're gonna get royally screwed. To close

(37:52):
the loop on everything with Nanet andthe Dante exam contracts, David the sense
I got. I know there's somedifferences in those deals, but I think
the biggest area the Rockets learned fromwith that first experience. I don't know,
we're going down a rabbit hole abit here, but I think the
NBA really didn't like that the Rocketsdid not loop them in on the process.

(38:16):
They didn't run it by them before, and so I think it made
them more likely to step in becausethey felt like the Rockets were trying to
slip something by them. And mypersonal opinion, and I've shared this with
you before. I think that's somethingyou need to handle in collective bargaining,
which, to their credit, theyhave this time. I think you learned

(38:36):
from it and adapt for the nexttime, and if you need to do
something sooner than let's talk about itas a league and negotiate it as opposed
to acting unilaterally. But I dothink clearly the CBA gives Adam Silver in
the League office that power. Itis what it is, and I think
part of the reason that they choseto exercise it in that instance was the

(38:57):
fact that they felt a bit blindsidedas opposed to the Dante exam situation.
I know it's not a perfect applesto apples, but I think the reporting
sense is indicated that the Rockets workedwith the League office, they looped them
in on the process, and soif they're not feeling blindsided, they're probably
much more likely to give you thebenefit of the doubt. Is that a
fair characterization. I think you're rightin that that heavily weighed on the league's

(39:22):
decision. I still as the underlyingsubstance, I think there are substance differences
between then an a contract and theexon contract that made the latter more palatable
under the CBA than the former.And also the CBA has a non circumvention
clause, so it's it's there fora reason and in my personal trust me

(39:44):
as someone who I love this stuff. Then then a contract. I was
over the moon of how creative itwas. I'm probably one of like twenty
people in the world that like fullyunderstood how awesome it was. But at
the same time, if other teamsdid it, it was just a slippery
slow. It was a bridge toofar. I think, Okay, fair

(40:05):
enough. I will admit that Iam not nearly the nerd that you are
on this particular subject. You're everybit the nerd I am. You're just
a different kind of nerds. Yesexactly, I'm a nerd different things.
So yeah, I'm just not theCBA nerd. And so I will fully
admit that I do not fully understandthe layers, and I suppose the slippery

(40:27):
slow in terms of what that decisioncould potentially lead to before the league could
address it in the next round ofnegotiations, which they of course did earlier
this year when they were getting outthis new CBA. I think another topic
I want to approach because a lotof Rockets fans watching this current Sixer Celtics
series are sort of intrigued either way. If the Sixers lose, of course,

(40:52):
there's a potential James Harden pursuit thisoffseason, and that's been talked about
for months. If the Sixers somehowupset the Celtics and it's tied at one,
there's a lot of people that arewondering about Jaylen Brown, who will
be one year out from potentially becominga free agent. And of course,
the pursuit of Brown and whether ornot he actually gets closer to free agency

(41:14):
is tied in large part to theNBA's awards voting, because if he's considered
an All NBA player on the first, second, or even third team i
e. Top fifteen in the leaguebecause each of them have five players,
then it heavily and syentivizes him financially, or at least it did under the
old CBA to sign a deal wherehe is now. Of course, we've

(41:37):
seen in the past guys can signthose deals and then ask out a year
later. It's certainly not without precedent, but it at least stalls the timeline
just a bit so in terms ofa Jaylen Brown pursuit, what does the
new CBA mean for those awards categoriesand the financial tie Yeah, so the

(42:00):
for for Jalen specifically, he's notgoing to be impacted immediately by the new
CBA because that's not going to kickin until after all NBA has been announced
for the season. But for forfor his situation, if he makes an
All NBA team, he's going tobe eligible for a designated Veteran player extension,
one of the supermax contracts, anduh, you know, we'll see

(42:22):
if Boston gives it to him,and if they do, I think he'd
be crazy not to take it.As you mentioned, he could maybe ask
out a year later. They wouldhave to be a minimum of one year.
Once you sign a Supermax, youcannot be traded for one full year.
So uh, you know, anyany visions of the of the Rockets

(42:45):
getting him anytime soon would go outthe window. But if he doesn't get
that conscient if he doesn't make AllNBA or he doesn't get offered the Supermax
by Boston, you know he's verymuch in play for the Rockets in twenty
twenty four or might want to hto work his way out of town and
go play for his former head coachEmudoka. But you know what, that
will definitely be something to watch.Ben talked about the Celtics half of it.

(43:09):
One of the one of the littlequirkie things that we that at least
Twitter found out about throughout the seasonafter the harder than rumors was that,
contrary to what usually happens, theSixers actually can't offer harder than more money
than the Rockets can because of theover thirty six rules. Do you know
if anything cames about that, it'sactually the over thirty eight rule. Now,

(43:31):
there used to be the over thirtysix rus. It used to be
the over thirty five rule, thenit was the over thirty six rule,
and then in the last CBA coincidentally, union president Chris Paul and union Vice
president Lebron James, we're both goingto be subject to the over thirty six
rules. So they decided to changeit to the over thirty eight rule,

(43:52):
which basically prevents you from giving longerthan a three year contract to anyone who
would turn thirty eight during during thecontract. So, so what that ends
up doing because of Harden's current age, the Philly can't give him a five
year deal, so the over thirtyeight rule prevents the fifth year. They

(44:13):
can only offer him a four yeardeal, which is basically the most that
any other team can offer in years, meaning that the amount that Philly can
can offer Harden is only going tobe slightly more than what Houston can offer
because they can give higher raises.But when you factor in no state income
tax in Texas, it's probably atoss up if you know, I don't.

(44:34):
I don't know. The actual calculationscould be Houston he nets more at
the end of the day post taxes, but it would basically be an apples
to apples comparison versus Philly being ableto wildly outbid any other team. Interesting,
So they change the rule, butit's just not enough to change to
hud Little love It. No,they did not change the rule, the
over thirty eight rule that was inthe twenty seventeen CBO. I think unless

(44:58):
unless there was something not in thememo that I wasn't shared, wasn't shared
with me, I'm pretty sure overthirty eight rules staying in the new CBA,
so nothing changes there. I don'tthink. Okay, perfect um My
next one is actually a lot ofa lot of people want and this is
this is a question that I'm sureit will get a lot a lot of
people want Kem Johnson and a lotof the good players seem free agency that

(45:22):
are on the under side a restrictedfree agents. What changed as far as
if they're office were to pursue KemJohnson, for example, what changed with
the new system versus would have beenwith the last one. Sure so on
restricted free agency, qualifying offers havegone up because you know, basically a
qualifying offer for those who don't know, is the one year contract amount that

(45:46):
you have to offer a restricted freeagent to make them restricted. And for
a lot of these guys, it'snot a lot of money, so they
usually end up in limbo for muchof the summer hoping someone signed them to
an offer sheet because they don't wantto just take the qualifying offer. Those
are going up by ten percent,which isn't going to solve that problem,

(46:07):
but maybe for a few players ayear, it'll make that qualifying offer a
little more palatable. If they can'tfind a good deal they like, just
accept the qualifying offer. Also,the offer sheet period is going to go
down. This sounds better than itis. It used to be. You
had the matching team had forty eighthours after the offer sheet to match it,

(46:31):
and that's going down depending on whattime of day you sign the offer
sheet, it's going down. Iknow it's good. It's literally like if
you sign it before noon, it'sthis much, and if you sign it
after noon, it's that much.But basically one day a day and a
half the team has to match.The reason it's not a big deal is

(46:52):
that time period always under the oldCBA, and I believe under the new
CBA the time period didn't start untilthe end of the July moratorium, so
you could sign an offer sheet onJuly one, but the forty eight thirty
six hour period, whatever it's gonnabe, didn't start until July six.
Yeah, so it's not really gonnahelp them, but it's gonna be a

(47:15):
little bit better. But it's like, if they really want to solve the
problem, they would have just saidit's it's thirty six hours period, even
if it's during the moratorium, butthey didn't do that. That's sad.
I didn't even realize that that youhad played for the full moratorium, so
it really just makes the change notmatter unless it sunds to be a restricted

(47:35):
free agent. Yeah, unless you'relike call them sex and then you wait
all the way until I think Augustor whatever it was. My next one
actually is not really that relevant tothe Rockets, but I know something King
because he told us something King,And I wonder what think what thinks about
the threat rule with for people whodon't know, it's when you when you

(47:57):
waive someone and they have multiple yearson their deal or even one year on
the delete can stretch the deadcap hitthroughout multiple years. I think Rockets,
I think they finally get off TroyWilliams or whatever his name is. This
year they have Williams. They havea tiny they've had a tiny Troy Williams
cap hit, dead cap hit.I'm actually planning on having a ceremony on

(48:19):
June thirtieth to uh say, buyonce and for all for the Troy Williams
dead cap hit. Isn't like themost random amount ever. It's just like
one hundred and twenty two thousand somethinglike that. Yeah, that's that's approximately
that much. Yeah, pretty much. And it's been on the books since,
you know, before Russell Westbrook Waybefore Russell West Williams was Yeah,

(48:43):
a couple of years before that,at least, I'm looking up to see
exactly what it was. Yes,I did it according to hoops Hype one
hundred and twenty two thousand, sevenhundred and forty one dollars. It's finally
off the books. Well, it'snot June thirtieth yet, Ben, let's
get ahead of Okay, so it'sa it's a thirtieth party along with the
opening up free agency. Yes,So seriously, I need like a Boys

(49:13):
to Men track or something to like. It's so hard to say goodbye Yesterday
playing in the background as we saygoodbye to Troy Williams. Um. But
to answer Paula's question, one wrinklethey're adding. So it used to be
you want to wave and stretch someone. When you wave them, you gotta
make your decision right then, theway it usually works, with some very

(49:36):
small exceptions, if you wave andstretch someone, their their payment is stretched
over twice the years plus one.So if the guy had two years left,
you stretch the payment obligation over fiveyears. But as to the cap
hit, you could make a decisiondo I want to stretch the cap hit?
The same way, or do Iwant to just take my lumps now

(49:58):
and the team has the choice todo what they want there. But the
new CBA is giving teams that stretchguys with multiple years left on their contract
the ability to go back and changetheir cap hit stretch election in subsequent years.
So I'll let me use Josh Smithas an example. Josh Smith signed

(50:19):
a monster contract with the Detroit Pistonsseveral years ago and ended up getting waived
with like three years left on hisdeal, and they waived and they stretched
him over like seven years or somethingcrazy. Under the new CB, if
he had been stretched while this newCBA were in effect, the team could

(50:40):
go back, like a year ortwo later and say, you know what,
I don't like that he stretched overfive more years. I'm going to
take the rest of the cap hitnow. Or if they took the rest
of his capit over three years andthen a year later they're like, ah,
this is a big habit. I'mtrying to open up cap room.
I want to stretch the last yearof this cap it over the next three

(51:00):
years. So that's going to bethat's going to be an interesting wrinkle to
the stretch to the stretch rule.Now, you can't do it for like
Troy Williams. Let's say last summerthe Rockets want to do it with Troy
Williams. You couldn't have don inthat situation. You can only do it
for so long as the contract wouldhave been in effect. Yeah, So
once you get to the out yearsof the stretch, you can't do it,

(51:22):
but you can do it in theearly years of the stretch. So
basically it matters if you all ofa sudden changed from a contending team to
a rebuilding team, or if youall of a sudden are a rebuilding team
and you make a huge leap andyou've got you want to invest now that
it basically allows you to change itand not be stuck with the O decisions
from the past, as long asthe contract would still be running. Yeah,

(51:44):
pretty much. I've got a questionI want to throw in before we
move on from restricted free agency.One of the debates that the Rockets are
going to have to have in thecoming weeks is how to handle kJ Barton,
because they could make him restricted thisoff season and perhaps utilize all that
salary cap space they have to gethim on friendlier terms. The same way

(52:07):
they did well, they then thesalary cap space. But it's the same
principle with what they did with JaySeon Tate a year ago. And because
you're giving him a new deal ayear early, he's incentivized to give you
slightly friendlier terms. You could perhapsfrontload it just a bit since you do
have all that salary cap space thissummer, and that makes it even more
plausible. On the other hand,if you want to use your salary cap

(52:29):
space on external editions, like wementioned James Harden and Dylan Brooks as one
of a number of potential targets,we just happen to throw them out earlier.
Then if you want to make fulluse of your sixty million dollars externally,
then perhaps you just wait until kJis unrestricted a year from now,
as opposed to turning down his teamoption and making him restricted this offseason.

(52:51):
David does the new CBA change atall the calculus for what you do with
kJ in terms of whether it's beneficialfinancially to let him into restricted free agency
a year early or the case forjust playing it out letting him become unrestricted
in twenty twenty four. No,no CBA is going to change the kJ
Martin situation. It is an interestingI mean, it is an interesting calculus

(53:14):
for the Rockets. You know,I think you laid it out really well,
but nothing in the new CBA isgoing to change that calculus. Do
you have any insight or perspective onwhat you would do with kJ? It
really is a tough call. Somuch depends on what they think they can
do in free agency. Yeah,if they think they're going to add some

(53:34):
veterans that play similar positions, youknow, the three four and especially because
you I mean Jabari Smith and TarryEason are two surefire building blocks that play
the same position as him pretty much, and you got Jay shown Tate that
there's overlap. I'm inclined to saypick up the option because then it's easier

(53:57):
to trade him. Agree, Butyou know, he really Martin really made
grew by leaps and bounds last year. I think he's a terrific player.
But if you're gonna find I mean, you got your Barry, you got
Tari, And if you're adding aveteran who overlaps too much with him,
I think it's got too many decentplayers playing the same roles. I say,

(54:20):
maybe move them for a future asset, which which means pick up the
option, which would make it easierto trade them. Yeah, yeah,
I agree. It's just I thinka lot of people don't realize. And
I actually just supposed to. Iposted before the podcast a trade on Twitter
that I had, you know,as combining Christopher and Titian and Nat.
I think a lot of people don'treally realize that. Make here, you're

(54:42):
not running anything more than a ninemaximum tenment rotation. And just between KPJ
Jalen Shane gun Clabari, tari orpicked this year and KPK if he stays
that's already seven players, you havesixteen million caps which you're going to bring
in vets like even even even keepingall of the guys that I just named,
which are the ones people value themost, it's going to cause a

(55:07):
lot of issues because even if itis a nine went rotation or a tennament
rotation, there's going to be guysthat are only playing fifteen, eighteen minutes
a night that you you'd want themto play more. So, I imagine
what happens to guys like k LLeashante, Josh Christopher Tye, Tygaruba,
like these guys are not going tothe flour for a lot for a really
long time unless there's injuries, sothat their values are going to tank.

(55:28):
But I'm not going to get intothat. I got a different question.
Let's talk about the in season tournaments. What it is and when does it
kick in? Do we get weget to raise our in season tournament banners
next year or when does it startit is supposed to start next season that

(55:49):
they want to go full more intoit. It is, there's so much
logistically that needs to go into it. The term she has like agreement to
agree language, which as a lawyerI hate, which basically basically they're saying
we got most of it figured out. We don't have one hundred percent of
it figured out. The sides.The sides will get it done. The
sides will get it done. Butthey're looking to put it in next year.

(56:14):
And you know, it's very creativehow they're doing it. They really
set out the process how it's gonnawork. God bless the schedule makers because
this is gonna be a monster forthem to deal with. But how I
don't know how much you want meto go into how it's gonna work,
but it is going to go in. Basically, there'll be a group stage

(56:36):
where everyone's divided it up into randomgroups and whoever has the best records from
those groups and a couple of wildcards are gonna play at eighteen single elimination
tournament. The final four is goingto be in a neutral location, and
then basically the teams from the playerson each of the eight finalists the quarterfinalists

(56:58):
are gonna get bonuses. So it'sthere's some financial reward there to the players
and no, no non financial reward, like you don't get a draft pick,
you don't get an automatic playoff birth. But you know, it looks
interesting and I think, much likewith soccer and European basketball, I think

(57:21):
the hope is this because this kindof build momentum and over the years kind
of becomes the thing that everybody looksforward to. And most importantly, it's
one more thing for the NBA tomonetize with its TV partners when negotiating the
new TV deal, which means moremoney for everybody. Yeah, and you
potentially need to offset reduce money giventhe whole regional sports stat work model collapsing.

(57:45):
As we've discussed in recent episodes,What the implications are there. Thankfully,
the Rockets have a bit of aband aid. The current contracts with
Direct TV and AT and T andthe other distributors run through twenty thirty two.
But yeah, with that landscape changingand cord cutting taking away the traditional
cable bundle, there is going tobe a hit to not just the Rockets,

(58:06):
to revenue streams all around the league. That's coming, and so any
new ideas to generate revenue like anINN season tournament should definitely be welcome to
help offset that. The one thingI will say, though, David,
while I would love to see theRockets win that before we put up a
banner for a new N season tournament, can we get a banner for the
Bubble Rockets? Have you noticed thatthere is still no where the hell is

(58:27):
their division champions? Yeah? Whyto put twenty nineteen dash twenty? I
still they can't do Russell Westbrook likethis. I know the disrespect to the
Bubble Rockets. My god, anyway, so I think Daniel Houses base on
it. Oh God, can wemake like little bevil horns on on on

(58:50):
top of it as well so wecan say it Sharni House. Our listons
are now on the toilet are goingto go down. Yeah, all right,
So one more salary cap question fromeach of us, our new CBA
question, I should say, becauseit goes more than just the salary cap.
Before we can try and wind thisthing down. The one that I've

(59:13):
got that I want to make surewe address is the changes to the draft
process, because while it's not goingto impact this year, one thing that
I've read about that really interests meand I think this is a good move
is this new policy that requires thesharing of medicals. Because in the past,
it's been so easy for a player, a prospect that is, and

(59:36):
or his agent to try and steertheir way to a certain destination, which
of course can really work to thedetriment of smaller markets that aren't that desirable
by simply not providing medicals, bynot working out. And then of course
it's riskier for the team's draft thatplayers since they don't have the full picture
of where he's at physically, andso it makes it a lot easier the

(01:00:00):
way it's been for a prospect tosort of bully his way to a given
destination, as opposed to this newCBA seeks to address that by standardizing the
medical process and everything that goes onat the combine to where it's available to
everyone, and so with that it'sgoing to be a bit harder. Certainly,
you can still Eli Manning style leakthat a prospect isn't interested in a

(01:00:24):
given destination, and I suppose there'ssome pressure there, But honestly, with
the contract being locked in, atsome point, a team has just got
to do what they've got to doand go with the best talent available.
Now that you're reducing the medical riskby making that information widely available. In
fact, it was reported last yearthat chet Holmgren didn't fully share his medicals

(01:00:47):
with all the teams in the lottery, and perhaps that played a role in
him going to Oklahoma City. Nowyou're gonna I don't think it's this draft
cycle. I believe it's next draftcycle, because of course the combine is
just about ten days away. Butto me, that's a really positive development
when we talk about overall fairness andpurity, David, is that the way

(01:01:07):
that you've read that component of it. Yeah, I mean it's actually much
broader than that. I think themedical sharing of medical information is the single
biggest takeaway from the changes in theCBA. But basically, draft prospects are
going to have to almost fully participatein the combine. They're going to have

(01:01:29):
to do drills, measurements, medicals, team interviews, media availability, everything
except five on five scrimmages. Andif you don't do it, you're not
draft eligible. And so it usedto be the combine. You're lucky if
if a few first rounders showed upto take a couple of measurements and do

(01:01:52):
some interviews and then left, andyou know, you get almost no first
rounders doing the scrimmages. Like whileI wasn't a huge rand of the Josh
Christopher pick on draft night, Idid respect the hell out of him.
He was one of the few guysthat rated in the top forty who actually
did the five on five at thecombine, and I respected the hell out
of that. New CBA is notgoing to change that most most of the

(01:02:15):
top guys are not going to dofive on five, but they got to
do everything else. And even ifthey have a legit excuse, there's very
limited excuses. Like if you're playingfeebaball overseas, you still got to come
and make up the stuff, oryou're not draft eligible. So and then
then when it comes to the medicals, the medicals are not going to be

(01:02:37):
shared with every team for the topprospects. They're only going to be shared
with teams that are generally within thedraft range that they're expected to go,
and the teams will come up withthe listle here are the top ten guys,
and these are the one like foryou're right, this is not going
to apply to this coming draft thatcan start in twenty twenty four. But

(01:02:58):
if it was in place for twentytwo three, they wouldn't release Victor wemben
Yama's medicals to every team. Theyonly do it to teams drafting like in
the top ten and and and it'skind of cascades, so on and so
forth with that. But but yeah, Paulo, it's it's it's really going
to increase the viability of the combineand make it. I mean it literally
is a necessity if you want toget drafted. Yeah, I think I

(01:03:21):
think they they could even do it. I mean I could think. I
can think off the top of myhead of two ways they could do it.
I'm not sure if if those arethe ways, but you could do
it the same way or by thesame process that they do the the invites
to the to the green I thinkit's called the green room during draft during
draft night, teams end out invitesor it could even be a hey,

(01:03:42):
each team gets ten, you know, requests to make bur pick that they
have for example, and so Imay maybe that doesn't work with the range
part of it. You might beright, Paulo. I'm not one hundred
percent sure how they're gonna do.They do have vague language that the teams
will be old to see who theyhave rated high, but it may be

(01:04:02):
a very similar process is how theydetermine who the top ten guys are expected
to be. Okay, So Imean I had a question. Ben kind
of stole it, but I stillhave some angles of it of it left
the first one and I'll set theburden into two just still related to or
still relate to the draft comment butnot really a question is I hope they

(01:04:24):
do it like the NFL and weactually get to see it, because that
would be exciting. Like I wishI remember back during the last two drafts
that I wish I could have watchedmore of the comment, like the actual
measurements and stuff. I wish.I wish we could. They should monetize
it because you show I think theyshow a good chunk of it on NBA
TV. I think it's not everything, and I remember we kind of hear

(01:04:46):
a lot of measurements through Twitter.It's it's weird. But the actual question
is The first one is so wecan put to bed the rumors that there
were earlier on of a double draft. So just so everybody listening, can
you know, take that out oftheir minds. There's not going to be
a double draft anytime soon, orthey're they're not getting rid of one and

(01:05:06):
done. Yeah, okay, that'sone of them that I want to just
put to put out that as atBSA. And the other one was what
are the changes to the minimum teamsalary? Sure? So, uh that
there I think it was. Ifit wasn't twenty seventeen, there was the
one prior established a minimum team salary. Every team had to spend up to

(01:05:27):
ninety percent of the salary cap,and if you didn't, at the end
of the year, you basically haveto write a check to the union for
the difference between what your salary wasand ninety percent of the cap, and
that money would get distributed to thatteam's players. So, for instance,
two years ago, Oklahoma City Thunderdid not reach the floor the minimum team

(01:05:48):
salary and had to cut a bigcheck, and some guys on the Thunder
made more from the check they gotbecause the Thunder didn't hit the floor.
Then they then their actual salary.And last year the Spurs and the Pacers
went into the season below the floor. Pacers went above it by doing the

(01:06:09):
Miles Turner renegotiation and extension. Spursstay below the floor, Spurs, you're
gonna have to cut a check toother players. Under the new CBA,
you cannot bring you cannot be belowthe floor below the minimum team salary by
the star of the regular season.If you are, you immediately lose that

(01:06:30):
cap room and you have to immediatelyright effect to the union. So you'd
still be ten percent below the cap, but all the benefits of being below
the minimum salary go right out thewindow. And to further discourage teams,
well, it's okay if you goin next year, there's not going to
this penalty isn't going to kick untilthe second year of the new CBA.

(01:06:50):
If you don't spend the minimum teamsalary, that season, you don't get
a luxury tax distribution, so somuch of the benefit of not paying your
players is completely gone. So teamsno more so. And this does affect
the Rockets, Like, let's saythey don't find any free agents they like.

(01:07:10):
They're not going to just say,well, we'll carry the sixty million
into the season. You can't dothat. You gotta spend it, or
at least most of it. Youcan spend it on one year deals and
you'll have kapern the next year,but you gotta spend it or you're gonna
lose it. That's very interesting.I have actually have one last question that
I got just once you ask yourquestion, I'm going to chastise both of
you for not asking me about themost important parts. Go ahead, paul

(01:07:35):
Okay, So I'm guessing that themost important parts are going to be the
Hinky special now being now not beingspecial anymore. And that wasn't what I
was going to chastise for you.But you know me well, Paula.
My last question was there was alot of talk about the teams that are
and we didn't talk a lot aboutthe second the punishments for the being over

(01:07:57):
the second aprom because well, Idon't think any of us believe that Rockets
will will ever be in that position. But yeah, but I'll tell you
that that that was what I wasgoing to chat to ask you for not
bringing it up because it affects theRockets direct competition. Yeah, And the
other thing I was actually going totalk about that might affect the Rockets is
so we know one of the punishmentsis draft picks, the team's own draft

(01:08:18):
picks being shifted from whatever they wouldbe to the end of the first round.
My question is if someone owns thatteam's pick, to dig it,
but it's for that team being overthe second apron because I mean the Clipper's
pick right now, if we werefollowing the current rules, would actually not
be twenty, it would be twentieth. But you're not punishing the Clippery,

(01:08:40):
the team that traded for the pick. So to answer that question, I
want to take a step back andjust quickly run through the restrictions because you
name probably one of the most severeones. But it's it's it's highly conditional
that it comes to that. Sowe talked earlier in the first apron no
non text pyramid level no biannual noacquiring players via sign and trade. Under

(01:09:01):
the new CBA, there's going tobe more restrictions on first apron team,
which again is inclusive of second apronteams. You cannot bring ta tpees into
the off season. If you makea trade you generate a five million dollars
TPE that you want to use anoffseason, Nope, you're gonna lose in
non season. You cannot sign buyoutplayers. So now what a buyout player

(01:09:24):
means, it's kind of a definedterm. If a guy is making more
than the non taxpayermid level amount andgets cut and waived, you cannot sign
them in free agency. So thatusually that'll that'll take away most of the
buyout market for you. And thenalso your salary matching and trades are going
to go down significantly. Now Itold you earlier that that salary matching rules

(01:09:45):
are gonna be easier for teams thatgo a little into the tax. But
now if you go above the apron, it's going to be worse than it
was under the tax player under underthe twenty seventeen CBA, where there's they're
gonna phase it into the gonna makeit a little worse next year. But
the year after, you cannot takeback more salary than you trade out.
You have to trade equal or moresalary out than you take in. So

(01:10:10):
you can't build up your payroll thatway. For second apron. And again
this in my opinion, is themost significant change in the CBA is the
second apron, which is about seventeenand a half million over the tax.
Again, that's going to grow,but figure seventeen and a half million over
the tax this year. You goabove that, you cannot use the tax

(01:10:32):
payramid level done. You only minimumsellers. In Starting in twenty twenty four,
you cannot aggregate salaries in trades.If you have two ten million dollar
players and you want to trade fora twenty million dollar player, Nope,
can't do it. In Starting intwenty twenty four, you cannot use cash

(01:10:53):
in trades. You can't buy asecond round pick, you can't throw some
money into grease the skids on atrade. No cash. Also, starting
in twenty four, there's a BobbyBarks and I have been going back and
forth on what this actually means.Either you cannot use a TPE that's generated
from a sign of trade, orif someone is signed and traded you can

(01:11:15):
never acquire them while they're on thatcontract. It's one or the other.
Bobby and I have the reputations.Yeah, damn, I think I'm right
in that. I think, like, so, look at what the Warriors
did when Kevin Durant wanted to goto Brooklyn where they basically they signed and
traded him and used that TPE tobring in D'Angelo Russell. My reading of

(01:11:39):
this is that you can't do thatanymore, that you couldn't bring in a
D'Angelo Russell from the Kevin Durant tpe. But we'll see that may or may
not be the truth. But thento your one, Paula is draft related.
So starting in twenty four twenty five, if you are a second Apron
team, your seventh first round pickout which I think is either going to

(01:12:02):
be the thirty one pick or thetwenty thirty one or twenty thirty two pick
in the first year here, willbecome a what's called a frozen pick.
That pick you cannot trade it.If you're a second Apron team, it
freezes. You cannot trade that pick. It's not an asset for you anymore.
You still can pick it, youcan use it on a player you

(01:12:23):
cannot trade it. And then thething you were talking about, Polo,
if you are a repeat offender inthe second Apron and you are in the
second Apron three out of five years, so the Golden States, the La
Clippers of the world that are perennialhuge spenders. Once you've gone three times
in five years, that frozen pickmoves to the end of the first round.

(01:12:45):
So you could be a big spenderin one year, be a repeated
violator, become a repeat second Apronteam, and by the time that pick
comes around, you may be ina rebuilding phase. That could be the
number one pick of the draft,but nope, it's the thirtieth pick of
the draft. And to answer yourspecific question, Paulo, there, I

(01:13:05):
believe the situation you brought up,where what if another team owns it?
I don't. I think the wayit's set up is because it's a frozen
pick, another team could not ownit, and because it's not starting until
such a far out year, noneof those picks have been traded yet.
Yeah, that's probably why it's sofar out. It's to make sure that
the pick hasn't been traded yet.And also I think I figured out the

(01:13:29):
last thing you're going to I can'tsay the wood you said, because well
I was. I was also goingto say, I told you luxury tax
rates are going down for small taxpayers. If you're a big taxplayer, the
rates are going We thought they werehuge before, they're all going up.
The the if you get above tenmillion over the tax obscenely high rates.

(01:13:54):
Obscene. But I'll go ahead becauseI think you know what you I think
I know what you're going to guess. Now. It just can't be a
double luxury tax team anymore. It'sthe punishments are just so happy. Even
if it were to bring in astar the way we know SuperTeams fail like
the Nets failed, Like I don'tthink it's worth it to give up all

(01:14:15):
of that just to make a superteamor or one of those really high level
super teams. But okay, ifyou have to be a team like the
Warriors that drafted very well and justkeeps all your guys, and you know
the Warriors would the Warriors would generallybe fine. Curry, Clay Draymond Kevon

(01:14:38):
Looney, Jordan Pool, all thoseguys would be fine. But you wouldn't
have any Andrew Whiggis and that's massivefor them, Moman, we'll get the
difference on their record since since hewas gone, he is massive for that
team. And then they pay himI think near MAXI money. I don't
think. I don't know how muchthe extension is. But they're only able
to keep out of these guys becausethey don't they don't worry about it.

(01:14:59):
And then Duggins is one of them. My guess is I did not ask
you about the fact that the mLcan be used as a TPE, now,
is that that is? That's oneof Yeah, that's one of my
favorite starting it's not next year,I think the year after. If you
don't use your mL or your biannualand this is non taxpayer mid level room

(01:15:26):
mid level or biannual, not thetaxpayer mid level, they're not going to
reward the tax paying teams with this. But the other three mid level,
the other three exceptions, if youdon't use them during the season, they
become trade exceptions. You can usethem not just to sign a free agent,
but to acquire a player via tradethat fits into that exception. So
they but it happens the year afteryou go without using them, right,

(01:15:49):
So the no, no, no, it doesn't matter if you use them
the prior year. It's just thatthat that little nugget of the CBA is
not going to go into effect untiltwenty twenty five season. Okay, but
so if you if I don't spendlet's let's say it would be next year
if I don't. If the Rocketsthey don't spend their EMIL next year during

(01:16:11):
that season, they could use itto trade for someone. Um no,
I mean you got to use itin the season. You can't carry it
over. But yeah, yeah,exactly, it's doing the actual season.
So so let's say they use alltheir KATHERINE but don't use the room exception.
They can carry that. Well,sorry, it won't apply this year.
Let's say next year the Rockets don'tuse their non tax Payramid level during

(01:16:32):
the summer of twenty twenty four,they go unto the twenty four twenty five
season without using it. Trade deadlinecomes up. There's a thirteen million dollars
player they really like. They couldthey can trade for him using the non
tax PAYAMID level as a trade exception. Didn't we got I don't know how
many yearsually without using your mL.When Hardan was here and we wouldn't have

(01:16:55):
used it on trades anyways, butit would have been useful. But what
it is, I mean, themost notable use of it was PJ.
Tucker Um and then and then sincePJ Tucker, it's mostly been using bits
and pieces of it. And thiswill segue into one of my other favorites.
You kind of indicated it earlier,Paulo is a lot of times player
teams don't use their full mid levelbecause they want to save a little sliver

(01:17:17):
of it to sign their second roundpicks. Well, guess what new CBA
has a new trade, a newsalary cap exception for second round picks.
You can if you have a secondround pick, you can sign them for
to a three or four year dealfor a higher minimum salary than the rookie
minimum. And it's not going tocount against your it won't count against any

(01:17:38):
of your other exceptions. So youcan use your full mid level and give
your second round pick a little morethan the rookie minimum. And you can
do both of those things. Secondround pick guy is lit. I am
so lit about this. It's onelast one, one last one, and
the on that exception, do thethird the opt out on the or the

(01:18:00):
year be restricted aft out in thepick up the fourth year b and restricts
still apply. The exception specifically allowsher team options. Yeah, but so
it would work the same way kJ Martin does. Exactly. You could
sign kJ Martin's contracts under this exception. They wouldn't have had to use a

(01:18:21):
sliver of the mid level like kJMartin, m Armandy Brooks, Garrison Matthews,
all these guys signed with slivers ofthe of the non taxpayer mid level.
Now you could well, maybe notGarrison Matthews, but now for guys
like kJ Martin or one of themany second round picks they had those types

(01:18:43):
of contracts, You can sign thetypes of contracts using the second round pick
exception. The Armandi Butcher wasn't agood example. That's the same contract structure,
but he wasn't the second round pick. But you understand what I'm talking
about those types of deals. Ifyou take a player in the second round,
you have this exception available to you. One more reason to value second
round picks. Yeah. But butmy question was actually on the on the

(01:19:03):
back end of it, like howthe the free agency part of it works.
When the contract ends, are theyrestricted at the third year and then
understricted on the fourth like Kayles.That's not going to change. Restricted free
agency for non first round picks isnot going to change the first three years,
restricted, fourth year, and beyondunderstricted. All right, And be

(01:19:25):
one thing I'll add I'll toss inhere because I didn't want it to go
without without saying it is that youknow, we said how difficult team building
is going to be for teams inthe apron levels. If you're not in
the apron level. All of thetrade matching, the salary matching rules,
the one hundred and seventy five percent, the five million dollar gap, the

(01:19:45):
one hundred thousand dollars trade allowance,all of those are getting more lenient,
and salary matching is going to getbetter for all the teams below the first
apron. So you're going to seemaybe more trades than you did for because
it's gonna be easier to make tradesthan it wasn't of the prior CYBA.
They want everyone to get to thefirst apron basically, and they're doing to

(01:20:06):
make get it as easiest as possibleto get them. Well, I don't
think they want teams in the firstapron. But they're gonna make it easy
for you as long as you're belowit. Yeah, they want you to
get right up against it. Ithink, well, I'm sure Tillman would
like every other team to get rightup against the first paper so he can
get all the luxury tax revenue.And I keep I keep, I keep

(01:20:28):
needing, I keep saying the namewrong. I didn't mean the apron.
I meant the tax line, thefirst tax level they wanted to get,
like all the way up to thefirst tax level. Yeah, I mean,
I think all on all the thiswas a pretty good combination of punishing
the high the high payroll teams,rewarding the non high payroll teams. And

(01:20:48):
there's a whole bunch of stuff forthe players, but we don't need to
get into that today. But Ithought I thought it was a pretty good
CBA. Yeah. For anybody whowants to nag David more about this stuff,
you can do it at beam athug on Twitter. Before we leave
off, I think a good wayto put a bow on this and tie
a few of these themes together,David, what you were getting at a
few minutes ago, was that beyondthe benefits for Houston directly, it can

(01:21:15):
also be beneficial and that several ofyour super high spending rivals, and then
the Western Conference that's teams like theClippers, the Warriors, the Lakers can
be in that tier. It's goingto be much more prohibitive for them to
go above and beyond the way theyhave under previous cbas So both for the
Rockets themselves and some of their competitionin the West, the really markey markets

(01:21:36):
and flagship franchises. It should helpthe Rockets on multiple levels. And I
think a good way to illustrate thatwith this offseason. We've mentioned Dylan Brooks
in passing a few times and weknow the issues. Obviously, He's a
talented young wing that can defend,but issues with a shot selection and be
some of the antics. Hollow isnot a fan, David. It's a

(01:21:57):
fairness that you're at least not overthe moon about Dylan Brooks. I think
that's a fair assessment. Okay,Yeah, the awards are very real.
Yeah, So what are the pushbacksto that that I've seen from not necessarily
his supporters, the people that areopen to Dylan Brooks is that if not
Dylan who and it becomes sort oftricky once you get past the top tier,

(01:22:19):
the James Harden, Kyrie Irving levelguys. Once you go down a
little bit into that, let's say, starting salary in the twenties, that
tier, all of a sudden,it's a bit trickier to see where the
alternatives are, especially because there's alot of other guys that it remains to
be seen. Do they opt out, do their current teams want them back?

(01:22:40):
How here's their playoff running. There'sa lot of uncertainty where I think
this CBA could be useful. I'mjust gonna give one example, but it
could play out elsewhere. Let's lookat some of these restricted free agents,
and I know a lot of peopleare reluctant to truly look at some of
the restricted options because they're afraid thatthe original team could just match. That's
certainly the case with Cam as wetalked about earlier with Brooklyn. Let's look

(01:23:02):
at Austin Reeves. That's someone thatI think there's skepticism by many that the
Lakers will let him go. Butall of a sudden, if you're the
Lakers and you have Anthony Davis onthe book's long term, I know Lebron
is thirty eight, but I thinkthey want to keep him as long as
he can play, even though it'snot as if the new CBA takes effect

(01:23:26):
overnight matching on a young guy likeReeves. That's something that a big market
team like the Lakers, even withtheir revenue streams, would have to think
long and hard about in regards togiving them a significant bump in their annual
salary next year because of what therestrictions could be like two three years down

(01:23:48):
the road. I'm not necessarily endorsingAustin Reeves, but David, is it
fair to say that that's a qualityexample of a guy who might be slightly
more gettable based on the enhanced restrictionsof the new CBA and what that makes
a team like the Lakers have tothink about slightly Yes, the Lakers.

(01:24:09):
It just so happens we're catching theLakers in the summer when they actually have
some flexibility, because remember before theymade the Russell Westbrook trade, he was
he was going to be coming offthe books, and D'Angelo Russell's coming off
the books for them. If theywant to bring everybody back, well,
then yeah, they're gonna have somesome tough decisions to make. But unless

(01:24:30):
you know, you could put togethera really nasty offer sheet for Austin Reeves
that makes the Lakers think twice.But I think it, you know,
and I think Rafel's probably indicated thathe probably doesn't want to put out a
bunch of offer sheets that are justgod awfully bad contracts just so the other
team won't match it, because thenwe're struck with a god awful contract.

(01:24:53):
But no, I'm not suggesting awful. I'm just saying a reasonable contract that
if the Lakers hypothetically resigned the JeloRussell, because it's not like they could
easily replace him on the open market, especially if they look like and they
do right now, looks like areally good team, then all of a
sudden, even a moderate contract toa guy like Reeves. And again,
I'm not necessarily endorsing him specifically,just using him as an example that might

(01:25:15):
be something that the original team hasto think about a bit more. Yeah,
Although, and again conceptually you're right, Ben as to the specific example,
I think the Lakers benefited a lotfrom the Westbrook trade because not only
did they get Russell, but theygot Malik Beasley, who has a team
option. If they really love Reevesand want to pay up for him,
they can decline the option on Beasleyand pick Reeves over Beasley. They got

(01:25:39):
Jared Vanderbilt on a really cheap teamoption that they'd be foolish not to pick
up, so you know, theycould basically consider this as, Okay,
we're gonna pay up for Reeves,but we're gonna basically swap him out for
Beasley. So as to the specificReeves example, I think I would be
surprised if he isn't the Laker nextyear, but they But if someone offers

(01:26:01):
a lot of money to him,this new CBA is going to make the
Lakers think a little bit longer anda little bit harder about it. Okay,
let me give you an example thatmight work a little bit better.
And I am definitely not endorsing this, But if you hypothetically were to get
James Harden and he wanted to bereunited with let's say, his good buddy
Eric Gordon, that's someone that theClippers might have a slightly tougher time justifying

(01:26:28):
keeping around given all the massive figuresthey already have on their books. It's
not as if the Clippers could justsplurge for Gordon and give him a new
deal without consideration for anything else,the way Steeve Balmer has in recent years.
Yes, that, as we allknow, Eric Gordon has a twenty
million dollar non guaranteed salary next yearthat will become guaranteed at the end of

(01:26:50):
June, and the Clippers have avery hard decision to make. Do they
want to waive him and shed twentyin a payroll or do they want to
keep him, which means they're goingto be paying many times over twenty million
in luxury attacks and suffer some ofthe consequences of the apron. Now,

(01:27:13):
in that situation, it's only onemore year. But are you talking more
about an extension for him? Yeah, either scenario, because for one more
year it's you're just talking money.Yeah, But if it's an extensions,
might prefer to give back that yearand get an extension at a slightly lower
aav for the sake of more money, I suppose guaranteed. So if there's

(01:27:38):
a hypothetical extension all of a sudden, that might be a consideration for the
Clippers. Absolutely, and and andSteve Bomber is going to have to decide
is you know, he's certainly shoundthe willingness to spend with no limit on
his roster, but is he willingto suffer the consequences of all the restrictions
on roster building that he's going toface, And it's gonna be that's gonna

(01:27:59):
be a tough call. There wego. Yeah, I just wanted to
provide a concrete example of an optionthat the new CBA could conceivably help put
into play. That might be anoption in the let's say, non Dylan
Brooks tier of guys that might comeavailable for a starting salary fifteen to thirty
million, somewhere in that range.There's initial aav figure not quite the max,

(01:28:20):
but definitely well above the mid level. Someone in that upper middle class
tier, and so Reeves Gordon.Those are a couple of guys that I
look at from those those teams atthe very top of the income bracket when
we're talking about or the Spenders,I should say, the Warriors, the
Clippers, the Lakers, those typesof franchises. And yeah, I just
wanted to illustrate how the new CBAmight give you a few more options if

(01:28:43):
you're looking at the market and say, and I'm not crazy about Dylan Brooks.
Given the exenuning circumstances, then maybethere's even more options than the guys
we're looking at. Anyway, we'vebeen going for an hour and a half.
I think we've covered enough. Again. If you want to get it
David even more, nag him atthemouthogue on Twitter. Last thing we do
before we close out, I'm gonnaget an answer from each of you guys
very quickly. I'm going to doa tankathon spin and then we're all going
to draft for the Rockets based onwhere they are in this spin. And

(01:29:06):
of course we're just going to beprojecting who's going to be on the board
at that point. So I'm goingto sim this and hopefully they're at one
and so we don't have to evengo through this exercise. But I think
since this is one of our lastshows for the draft lottery, let's have
some fun. Three two one,sim oh man, this is actually the

(01:29:27):
toughest one. So Utad jumped allthe way up to number one. Charlotte
is at number two, Detroit isnumber three, the Rockets are at four.
What do you do if you're atfour? David, Well, I'm
assuming Victor's one and two and threein some combination to Scute and Brandon Miller.
Yes, gun to my head atfour, I'm probably taking Almond Thompson.

(01:29:53):
Yeah, I think I am too. I think even though the overtime
e lead concerns are valid, Ijust think he has a gear, he
has a level of upside that ishigh or that anyone else you could talk
me into, Juris Walker. ButI do think there's a little bit of
an overlap with Shabari Smith and RyEaston, two defensive minded forwards that are
already on your roster in terms ofhow exactly he fits in your puzzle.

(01:30:13):
So I think I would gamble onthe upside of I'm in Thompson in that
scenario. Hello, you man.So basically, I'll say, first,
my ideal scenario in this case isto trade the pickaway for some for some
for some sort of some sort ofa high tier player or whatever it might
be that actually or is already inthe league. Because I'm not buying either

(01:30:33):
of the Thompson twins, my secondvalue isn't there, and you just have
to make the most of the pick. Yeah. Secondly, that's a really
interesting scenario because one's going to bewempy. But both Charlotte and Detroit have
a point guard m good point.So who knows. Maybe he scold post
the phone. He's not because hejust trade for him. You basically have

(01:30:57):
to say, okay, four twentyplus us, what gets me scowed?
Yeah, listen, listen. Ifit's to jump up from four to getting
scooed, I'll give them everything Iown. I don't get it. I'm
dead, by the way, Paulo. By the way, Paulo, excellent
job completely avoiding the question. Listen, I'm I'm learning with Raphael Stone.
Okay, I'm just following the footsteps. Um. Now, there's no trade

(01:31:23):
option. If there's no trade option, and I can't talk the question again
by saying I'm going with the meanpick and taking crazy Dick, I'm going
to take I don't think you can. I do have Jedis Walker higher on
my board than Amon Thompson, Ithink at this point, but or the
Rocket, I don't think it makessense. I'm going with with him and
Thompson. Yeah, side, Now, how much would it suck if the

(01:31:45):
freaking Utah Jazz end up with Mubby. It's a twist. It's better than
if it were the Mavericks. I'malready resigned to him either being a Spur
or a Jazz. I've but LBTand I have both said, oh,
he's gonna be on one of thosetwo teams. I just I just know
it. Okay, Well, let'sconsider this the reverse jinks. Now that
you've put it out there, it'sdefinitely that's exactly my intent. That's exactly

(01:32:09):
in these sins. The difference betweenUtah at nine and Dallas at at ten
is one point five percent outs,which is a lot considering that Ballas is
three percent in Utahs four point fivepercent. But as much as I hate
the Spurs and as much as Ihate the Jazz, the one thing I

(01:32:30):
would lock in, please don't happens. Please don't give him to Dallas to
Oh I've already told. I've alreadytold that. They see that we're gonna
have to get a divorce if thathappens. Oh God, it's just so
unfair. If they tank their wayinto Wimby, that's going to be disgraceful
for those who don't know. Mywife is a math, she's from Dallas,
and it's a mask fan. Yeah, I've already threatened divorce. Imagine
the reaction at them too would haveafter the entire thing that they made about

(01:32:55):
them intentionaling is in the playoffs.Yeah, Like, if there was one
thing that they would ring the lotsfor, it would probably be for the
MAVs not to get it after everythingthat went through them with them intantony thinking
over the planet. I know,I just did a podcast with Clay Allen
talking about how difficult it would beto fix the lottery logistically these days.
Since there's no more envelopes, youcould conceivably freeze the four digit number of

(01:33:17):
combinations. That would be pretty difficultwith the accounting firm, everyone else in
the room to have any shenanigans with. With all that said, my God,
the NBA would need to somehow havea conspiracy to keep Wimby out of
Dallas after everything had happened. Ifnothing else, Adam Silber has to earn
his paycheck by finding a way notto let to Dallas. Otherwise, God,

(01:33:40):
that would make a mockery of theentire system. Wait, and last
thing's marriage one while thing before weclose that just happened, or at least
I just noticed that it happened.I don't know if draft. Workouts are
already going on. But yet Howardhas a picture on this Instagram of him
in the Rockets workout tea. SoI don't know if you if you worked

(01:34:01):
out if it just owns one forsome reason, but that's your first a
little bit of draft or of draftslop as a workouts are going on.
Yeah, workouts have already started.And oh man, that'd be a nice
nice I love them, Yeah itwould be. And yeah, workouts are
going on. They brought in afew guys already. It's just the true

(01:34:25):
top tier. Of course, they'rewaiting to see the lottery results because they
don't want to waste their time.But yeah, you are seeing, I
would say, the guys that aren'tpotentially in play for the very very top,
they're starting to do their their circuit, guys that are not going to
be affected by the lottery. Andso the Rockets already looking at some of
those guys and a few of themeither coming into twitters and or maybe there's
a group workout somewhere else. Butyeah, that process is under way.

(01:34:46):
So that reminds me with Rockets alreadyjust put together my annual workout tracker list
to sort of have a one stopshop or where all of these guys are
going, and specifically those that havestopped by or visited with the Rockets and
own capacity. Anyway, we've goneon long enough for one show. We'll
save that for a future episode,perhaps next week, if we get more
tidbits about who those players are thatthe Rockets are already bringing in or looking

(01:35:10):
at. For one day, Ithink we've gone on for long enough.
So for David and Paolo, I'mBen. I want to thank everyone for
listening to us ramble about CBA andNERD basketball stuff for an hour and a
half. If you've made it throughthis extended podcast, we really really thank
you and hopefully you learn something fromthis. Hopefully we've provided some value for
you. Anyway, if you wanteven more beyond what we have discussed over

(01:35:32):
the last ninety plus minutes, thebest place to get it, as I
mentioned earlier, is on Twitter.David is on there at Beam a Thug,
Paulo's on there at Paulo Alves NBA, and I'm on there at Dan
Dubos. Besides the three of us, you should also follow the show the
logger line on Twitter, because notonly can you get our episodes right when
they come out. We've got alink tree that's super helpful. You can

(01:35:53):
just hit up that link tree andcertainly you can find their distributors Apple,
Google, Spotify and find our episodesthat way. But you can also so
find our links to Carback Brewing,Sports Talk, seven ninety Rockets, whilere
all of our sponsors, friends andpartners. You can access their content and
show some love to them as well. With those plugs complete, we will
adjourn again for David and Paulo.I'm Ben. Thanks always for listening,

(01:36:15):
and please come back soon for anothernew episode of the Logger Line.

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