Draft reaction as Rockets land Amen Thompson, Cam Whitmore

In a weekend episode, Rockets podcasters Ben DuBose and Paulo Alves offer their initial reactions to Houston landing Amen Thompson (No. 4 pick, Overtime Elite) and Cam Whitmore (No. 20, Villanova) in the first round of the 2023 NBA draft.

After unexpectedly securing two of the draft’s most desirable prospects, Houston is receiving high grades from NBA analysts. As such, the podcast explores what each player can potentially bring to the young and rebuilding Rockets in the 2023-24 season and beyond.

The show also addresses what the well-received draft class says about Rockets general manager Rafael Stone, as well as what the draft haul could mean for 2023 free agency next weekend.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome toThe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety. The lagger Line.
It's proudly served to you by CarboxClutch City lagger It is good. Oh
yeah, Red Nation. Get readyto get ready, Get ready. The

(00:26):
lagger Line starts now. Welcome onboard. One week ago, when we last
recorded a podcast, I'm in Thompsonand Cam Whitmore were believed to be in
close competition to be drafted by theRockets at number four overall in the first

(00:48):
round. Somehow, one week later, Houston ended up with both and they
didn't even have to trade up fromtheir second pick at number twenty to do
it. So how did rockfel Stonepull it off? And what comes next?
That's what we're going to be discussinghere today at the lagger Line,
your source for analysis and commentary ofall things Houston Rockets basketball. As always,
it served to you courtesy off ClutchCity, logger of Carback Brewing,

(01:11):
their beer developed in collaboration with theRockets. I'm your host, Ben Dubos,
editor of USA Today's Rocket Squire andcontributor to Sports Talk seven ninety.
The official flagship radio station of theRockets here in Houston to talk about everything
that's transpired over the last forty eighthours or so. I'm joined by'm a
good friend and co host had aPortugal Paalo Alves. Hello. I know
the Rockets didn't end up with yourboy and Scoot Henderson, but you have

(01:34):
to feel pretty damn good ultimately withhow the twenty twenty three draft turned out,
right, Yeah, I mean islandat Scoot. But Amen's fine,
right is He's still like a greatprospect and there are still scenarios what he's
better than than the Scoop. Ijust think I just thought and think Scoot
is ready right now and it's morelikely that he achieves start superstar status.
That being said, we're not hereto talk about Scoop, to talk about

(01:56):
Amen. Right. The one thingthat I've gotten the field for Simpsy has
been drafted is he just has theright answers for everything, and usually not
only does it signal that that's goodfor the player on the court, it's
signaled that he's a smart person.Because no smart persons were going to give
you the wrong answer on an interview, because they're prepared for interviews and you

(02:17):
know they'll even if they don't wantto give you the right answer, they
will anyways because they're smart enough tocome up with it right. So that
you can see that on the court, in his play in his playmaking,
but off the court, I reallyliked this demeanor in his presence. He
even had before he was drafted toHouston. He had a little a little
witty joke about about him splitting upwith his twin brother and they were splitting

(02:42):
up like their belongings, and hesays something to them to the same meaning
as it's like a bad divorce becausehe gets everything. And I just,
yeah, saw that. It's it'simportant to talk about what they do on
the court, but I also liketo sometimes just show the fans side a
little bit. And for the fanside, it's it's good. It's fun
to see that he's he's a funpersonality and he that he's you know,

(03:04):
smart off the court, especially witheverything that's come along with Zion and Kim
Morand And I think I do thinkthat ultimately because he's a point guard prospect.
Maybe he's not that day one,but eventually, even though he's six
foot seven, he projects as yourpoint guard of the future. Look,
that's the one position on the courtwhere leadership does really matter, and you're

(03:24):
talking about organizing your team on andoff the court. Oftentimes not every time,
but many times, that's the voice. Look at Chris Paul for the
last two decades, that's really organizingthings, making sure that everyone's on the
same page. So at his positionthat type of little thing. Sure you
might say it's from a fan perspective, but I think on some level that

(03:44):
personality matters when it comes to relatingthe teammates too, and that's something that
his role is ultimately going to betasked with, right Yeah, especially especially
like not only so we saw forexample that Jame Startdon was great lead adopt
the court, but then on thecourt doesn't really matter. He didn't hit
them amount to as much as weneeded him to do. But especially on
the court, I think the leadershipis up to the guy that's bringing the

(04:06):
vault the foremost of the like wecan we can, or the guy that
that runs play and for most teamsthat it's the punk cut. I think
the word he said it makes alot of sense. I think the teams
need someone like that. I thinkwe have some two guys that could be
defense, that could be moving forward, more defensive leaders in Inkavarian targy because
of how they hustle, but they'renot the offensive end. UN's not you

(04:28):
know, doesn't speak English, hadhis first is his first language. Right,
Yeah, he's much better than hewas. But it's tough for you
to adapt into that role. Andthen I know you can but it and
Jalen seems it's more of a softspoken guy. He's more of a maybe
a lead by example. He's gonna, you know, take care of himself
and ask people to uphold the samestandards that he upholes himself too. But

(04:49):
Amen strikes to me a little bitmore as that vocal lead than if it's
coming out of the point. Forthe punk cod role, I think it's
even better. But then, justspeaking of him and his game, there's
a lot to be excited about.Obviously, you have the length. Obviously,
if you watch them play, youknow that when he's guarding someone one
on one on one, he's allup in their business. Right. That
signals a willingness to play defense.Right. You can be a good defender

(05:12):
without it, but if you're doingit, it means that you're trying right,
No, no other two ways aboutit. And then he has the
lengthy as the foot speed, haseverything. He can improve his technique a
little bit. Sometimes playing too farupon people can backfire, but so far
it's been fine in that for aguy. And so if we think he
can be a bad guy, Iactually retract a little bit of the theory

(05:35):
that he's a Boom or Bush typeof guy, because I think there's a
middle ground there where he uses hisdefense and he uses his playmaking and he
might not be a twenty five,five and ten guy, but he could
be a seventeen four and seven guy, and that's still with his defense,
still very useful player. But thenand that's, you know, kind of

(05:56):
the middle ground. He talked abouthis shooting. He already knows the shooting
go to his name, so that'sgood to know. It's not a pen
simil situation where he's scared to shoot. It's just he has to work through
it. And we had obviously coopon I think it was the last episode
that we did, and he talkedabout how raw they were coming into into
overtime Elite, and so it makessense wides a little bit further behind the

(06:18):
new expect it's ubsolutely rockets and himto work on that and if he does,
what's there not to like? Youknow, he's a room pressure machine
if you can have the dual threatof him having a jump shot, even
if it's not a three punch out, just a mid rain jumper, because
Rossal Westbrook lived off of the midring jumper and the way up for basically
his entire basically yeah, actually hisentire career, and Amens can do the

(06:44):
same thing, except he's four inchstaller and has a larger wingspet, so
he could be right, he could. I think he has the potential to
be the best player on the championshipteam. And that's far and we've talked
about him right, But as faras as what it means for this team,
I'm I'm really looking forward to howthey handle this playing time. I
can understand playing him as the backupto someone more established that comes in.

(07:08):
I cannot understand playing him behind KPJunless he's really not ready. But I
think that needs to be a priorityin both giving getting him minutes with Kylan
Green because I think that tandem isgoing to be really important for them to
play together and figure it out,as well as him playing with potentially a

(07:29):
four spacing center that they might bringin, which would report that it would
likely be Bruklopez. I think ifhe comes in, I would much rather
would, at least early on thatvalue, trying to mirror his minutes with
Bruklopez than with Alpern Shangun because it'sgoing to make the game a lot easier
for him, and we work withKillen Green. That's so much of your
introduction into the NKA is about confidenceand so and so. A good start

(07:54):
goes a long way. Even ifyou hit the rookie wall, A long
start always goes a long way.So Damon Thompson. Yes, I wanted
Scoot Henderson not gonna lie about it, but it's not like him. Thompson
is any less exciting off a prospectwhen he look at his stealing. So
it's his job and the rockets stalsmakes UoT tease. Look. As far
as the rookie wall, we shouldalso point out that if he's only playing

(08:15):
twenty minutes per game or so rightout of the shoot, then that makes
it all the less likely that he'sultimately going to hit that. It's not
going to be a situation like withJalen or Jabari, where you're throwing these
guys into eighty two game seasons wherethey're playing thirty to thirty five minutes per
night and being in somewhat futured roles. Yeah, at some point when you're
used to playing seasons that max outat thirty or thirty five games prior to

(08:37):
that, then it's going to beproblematic. And then you throw in a
couple of injuries, and yeah,it can snowball in a hurry. Especially
if Aman goes into a somewhat reducedrole right out of the gate, then
it may be easier to manage thatover the course of his rookie season.
Look, the one thing I'll sayabout Aman the player, I do think,
and I made this point on theseven ninety Draft Show last night,
I think sometimes the non shooters andwe hope that this it's just a temporary

(09:00):
thing. Again, the Rockets,they've invested in shooting coaches this offseason in
a way they have not the lastcouple of years. You've got Ben Sullivan
from the Celtics, You've got CamHodges from the Clippers. We heard from
Amen today, who, as youmentioned, Polo has a very level head
on his shoulders. He talks aboutwanting to work with Ben Sullivan all summer.
He's got the drive. He checksall the boxes in terms of his

(09:20):
approach. He works hard. Again, there's no red flags at all.
He lives in the gym, there'sno medical concerns. He has all those
intangibles, and that's part of whatthe Rockets really really like about him.
But even if the worst case happensand the jump shot doesn't come along,
I think sometimes they're going to bea bias against these non shooters simply because
it's so glaring in these extreme caseslike you mentioned in Russell Westbrook and if

(09:45):
someone SAgs off fifteen or so feet, and especially later in Russell's career when
he became less willing of a cutter, then it became even more glaring because
defenders didn't have to respect his willingnessto move when he doesn't have the ball
in his hands. That's another goodthing about and he does seem to be
a very willing cutter. That's somethingthat Coop talked about. But I just
think that because that's so glaring.Of course people talk about it, but

(10:07):
the reality it's everybody has deficiencies.Look, there were a few hours Thursday,
and I know that Amen was theRockets guy, so it probably stressed
him out a little bit when itlooked like the Rockets might get Brandon Miller,
when that report came out that Portlandwas perhaps looking at Aman if Charlotte
ended up taking Scoot. Ultimately,Charlotte took Miller with a very convoluted explanation
after the fact, and then Scootwent to the Blazers. But look,

(10:30):
with Brandon Miller, yeah he canshoot, but there's questions about how well
the rest of his game is goingto come along. Is he ever going
to playmate at a high enough levelto be a true star. Is he's
just going to be an upper tierthree and D type guy. There's questions
with all of these guys. It'sjust the shooting is so glaring that I
think just sometimes superficially fans get fixatedon that. The reality is that if
these guys that can playmake that candefend at multiple positions. I think that's

(10:54):
something that in the Rockets eyes madeDomens stand out relative to Scoot. If
you have that level of elite atloves playmaking, defensive versatility, it's tough
to see a total bust scenario.Look at these bigger guards that come out
just within the past ten years,Mark l faults. Even though it was
a rough start in Philly, he'sturned into a valuable player for the Orlando

(11:15):
Magic. Look at Ben Simmons.Prior to the back injuries and prior to
whatever happened with him mentally from twentytwenty one and earlier, he was a
very good all star level player.I don't think you could win a title
with Ben as the best player onyour team even at his peak, but
he was still very, very valuable. And that's true. Let me just
TObject to say something really quick.I actually think and I'm as much as

(11:37):
a Ben Simmons detracted as anybody else. I really didn't want him und the
Rockets, but I do think itmattered that Ben Simmons came to a team
that already had that guy. AndI think if Ben Simmons comes into a
team by himself and has in hisaffort of the chances ended the priority to
you know, actually just just jackup shots. I don't think that mental

(11:58):
block of him not taking these everhappened. I think he was there.
There's problems. Then there's mental problemsthat are problems with this game. There's
problems with this work ethic. Isay, I think because dates all the
way back to I think it waswith I always forget the name whatever when
he was indulged. The scouting reportsaid that. But I also think that
the Sixes didn't do a good jobdeveloping him because he stayed the same player
from the moment he stepped into theNBA until his fourth floor fifth year.

(12:22):
So I actually and I don't thinkthat the Rockets are ever going to do
aim and not only does aim andnot have the propems I need to do
that, I think the Rockets arenot going never going to allow that to
happen. Yeah. Well, themain point that I was trying to get
to with that is that even inthe flour scenarios, even if you assume
the absolute worst, if you arethat level of athlete with that type of
versatility, then you're at least goingto be a passable player. Well more

(12:45):
than that, quite frankly, becausefalse and Sements at their best were very
good rotation pieces that you don't reallyhave to worry that much about, And
in my opinion, that's a floortype scenario. Are there questions with the
jump shot when it comes to willhe be able to develop into a true
upper echelon all star type point guard. Sure, but again all of these
guys have questions the shooting just simplybecause it's so glaring, and especially in

(13:11):
meme culture, we point to whenyou know Draymond or Russ gets sagged off
by a ridiculous amount, we makea huge deal out of it. But
in reality, again, every prospectat the top of the draft has questions,
including Brandon Miller, who nearly fellto the rockets. It felt like,
at least for a few hours ondraft boarding. It's just we don't

(13:31):
talk about those as much because itisn't glaring. And so I think that's
one thing that I think a lotof fans would feel more comfortable if the
understood that this is just one ofsimply mini risks that can come with the
draft process and quite frankly, anyprospect that isn't wimby and we had to
make our peace with that weeks ago. Look, the last thing I'll say
as far as Aman Thompson and thenI want to get to Cam Whitmore,

(13:52):
which really provided some juice to draftnight for the Rockets. The one thing
I will say about amand he wasthe Rockets guy, and there's some leaf
and simply being able to say thatthe Rockets got who they wanted. I've
reported on this show before. Iwas told before the regular season even ended
that you would not believe how manyteams around the league would end up having

(14:13):
a'm and Thompson at number two ontheir draft boards. Now, I was
not told at the time that theRockets would be one of them, but
since they were the ones talking tome, you know, you can put
two and two together and it's apretty safe bat. And since then,
I've heard nothing but good things.And so many times when a team ends
up at a spot it's likely toresult in a certain player based on the
draft boards. It can be alot of sort of rationalization spin. I

(14:37):
would call it just coming in afterthe fact saying, yeah, we got
who we wanted. Well, inreality, it's just you know, you
took who was the best available atthat spot. Now, the Rockets coming
in at number four in the draftlottery was the coincidental part. They actually
did get who they wanted other thanWemby. Let's not get crazy. They
did not value Aman Thompson over agenerational guy like Wemby. But I do

(14:58):
feel confident and say that for betteror for worse, and you can disagree
with them, Amin was their guyafter Victor wimban Yama, and so from
a Houston perspective, especially after whathappened with Paolo bencro a year ago,
I suspect that if the Rockets hadlanded number two in the draft, and
this would have broken your heart,I think they actually would have taken Amen

(15:18):
there because I don't know if theywould have wanted to take the risk of
trade down or pick or two afterwhat happened with ban Caro exactly one year
ago. And again I understand alot of people will disagree, and that's
fine, but I do think thatfor a relatively young administration with rockfel Stone,
at least now they get their engine, they get their guy, and

(15:41):
we can build around that and seewhat happens. To me, there is
some value in that that they gettheir guy. There's no what ifing this
is who they wanted to build around. I think it's a combination of playmaking
and the defensive versatility and the confidencethat they can get the shot to a
more passable level with their shooting coaches. The bottom line is they trust in
him, and I also think itunderscores that this administration gets it. You
know, there were times the lastcouple of years that people ask the question

(16:04):
when they kept running Kevin Porter Juniorout at point guard, and I know
some of it was that they didn'treally have another choice. Look, John
Wall at thirty one years old andsuper iso heavy certainly was not the answer.
And we've said on this show beforethat KPJ was a lot more of
just a temporary experiment. You mightas well see what happens. But there
were definitely some when the Rockets clearlydid not have much in the way of

(16:25):
facilitating on court leadership. The questionhow much did the Rockets actually see the
need for a true floor general,someone that, as Aman said in his
post draft interview, wants to seehis teammates get better. He talked today
about wanting to get Javaris with Juniorand Jalen green Way more open threes.
I think this process showed you thatthe Rockets do get it. They still

(16:45):
do see that as a need.There's a reason why basketball has been played
for as long as it has withfloor generals, the traditional types having such
a prominent role. Not saying thatAmin is super traditional because yeah he's jumbo,
Yeah he can dip into a lotof positions, but ultimately on offense,
he wants to be the guy notjust creating for himself, but for
his teammates as well. There weretimes the last couple of years people wondered,

(17:07):
are the Rockets just trying to basicallygo out there and hoop your turn,
my turn? No, this showsyou that they do prioritize it.
Again, we'll see if picking Aminover Scoot. I know they didn't technically,
but I think it's pretty clear nowthat the Rockets didn't try that hard
to move up for Scoot Henderson.They were comfortable at four as long as
Aman was on the board, andso beyond just Alman versus Scoot stuff.
To me, I take a littlebit of a silver lining in that,

(17:30):
based on them prioritizing that position andmaking one of their three core building blocks.
Again out of this rebuild, whichis now transitioning to phase two,
you owe your future draft capital toOkaysey. You ended up with high draft
picks in three straight years twenty twentyone through twenty twenty three. You got
your shooting guard, you got yourbig well combination of a forward slash big
in Jabari, and now you gotyour point guard. So at least we

(17:52):
know that Rathelstone and his basketball operationsteam, they do see that as a
knee. They do know that thisteam needs it, and I think we've
talked about it. I had nauseahim the last couple of years. Now
we just have to wait to seeif Aman's the right guy. But at
least they saw the need, rightthere has to be at least some comfort
level in that. Yeah, Ithink list And I'm not going to say

(18:12):
that I'm that I agree with themhaving I'm a number two. I'm going
to say that if you've played attentionto my timeline, I had the sneaking
suspicion for a long time, whichis why I wasn't confident that they would
even try to trade up. Thatbeing said, hey, if that's your
guy, that's your guy. Imay disagree with it, but you know,
at least you're going down swinging,and you're going down you call on
your sword, right, and there'sa philosophy you can respect exactly. So

(18:36):
I will say what I expect thenif this is their guy, which I
think it is, is that theytruly beat on him right there, and
it might start off the bench,right, but at least halfway through the
season or something that no matter whothey get to be the starting point guard,
a threat then lead or not,which is I know, we'll get
into free agency. And I havea point to make about that as well,

(18:56):
that if he's ready, right orif he's somewhat ready, even he's
not totally ready, that they increasehis responsibilities because he is raw and he
is going to need those reps.And he is already twenty years old,
so he has all the potential inthe world wilding a twenty year old,
which is, you know, notun verbose, but not that not that
common. So beat on him becausehe needs more. He's coming like he's

(19:19):
coming into this reveal two years late. That guys have been here for two
years growing accustomed to each other,and a lot of those habits are going
to be have to be broken becausetevehmselvesdidn't know what to the scot But he's
going to. He's going to.He's a little late to the party,
and also he needs to settle inand settle in quickly because he is the
point guard, said, the leaderon the floor in market sys than not.

(19:40):
And the other thing that I wasdoing to touch on is I don't
even know if he's the traditional funkcud. I think he can't do both.
And I think then Indian view withyou up nowadays is exactly that. I
think, well, just some ofthose skills. But yeah, you're right,
he has enough power both. Yeah, exactly. You want someone who's
able to make the past without breakingthe defensive part because just following just running

(20:02):
a play. And you also wantthe guy that can put the ball on
the four and created athentic to himself. And I think em and Thompson canna
be both of those things. Andto transitioning to Kem Whitmore, I think,
well, I'm not gonna get aheadof myself. I'm just gonna say
first that him falling to twenty isridiculous. Oh yeah, we were.
We were talking about trading up tohim all the way from pick ten,

(20:23):
which was the mass on the spacein real time. He was fault like
the moment he wasn't taking six orseventh, and we started seeing Anthony the
Anthony Blacks and the coolie bodies ofthe world. It was already shocking,
but then that no team from ten, or from six or seven, all
the way to twenty. That thefact that nobody took him, regardless of

(20:45):
what the medical issue is, andI'll get into what the medical issue is,
is insane. And what I thinkhappened was, Hey, pick six
didn't go for him, Pick sevento go for him. It's not it's
not I mean, it's not ahot tache to not go for him.
At these picks, you could haveit be right, it would be,
you know, except to be ifyou did. But then once you get
to ten, and then you getto eleven, which is the Matthew who
have who? Also? I hadto pick at six and I'm guessing he

(21:07):
didn't work out for the thud buthe might have. And and the Thunder
usually work out a lot of peoplebecause they all they are always a threat
to trade up because of all manypicks they have. But then at thirty,
the Robbers, I bet we didn'twork out with them. I bet
we didn't quit work out with thePelicans. I bet so we didn't work
out with the Hawks. And thenhe gets sixty if sixteenths of cast will
also have pick nap, so heprobably worked out with them. The moment

(21:30):
they didn't pick him, I wasI had two takes on my head on
my mind. The first one ishe's going to be there at twenty,
and the second one was it wouldbe so ironic if the Warriors took him
at ninety. Oh yeah, Iwas paranoid of that. When the Warriors
were on the clock, I waslike, dear god, losing on a
corn flip because the Clippers pick couldhave been higher because the Clippers, the

(21:51):
Warriors, and the Heat all finishedwith the same record. Yeah, they
lost out on a corn flip tothe Warriors. Of all teams, Oh
my god, that would have stilleYeah and so but when he falls to
twenty, at that point, we'rejust all ruling for oh my god,
we cannot be another one of theseteams. That's absolutely crazy. We work
them out. We know, youknow about his medicals, we know everything
that is to know. And truthis, they took him at twenty.

(22:12):
It's still insane that for if youasked us two days ago, there were
discussions on whether the Rockets would takecame with more who they took a twenty
or a man Thompson who they tookit four at the four and he felt
twenty. To touch on the medicalissues, according to Givoni that works with

(22:32):
the drought side of ESPN, there'sa lot of completing reports. Well,
one of the things that comes up, it's that it's a it's a cardial
walk on his knee. It's hiscareer. Yeah, yeah, and there
were there were there there were aboutit being the narrative disease which only impacts
you on the Perticavoni only would impactyou on the back half of your career,
which is if that's the problem,all of these teams passing him up

(22:55):
is idiotic because how many players andto compile on to that kem with more
than eighteen years old, how manyplayers are still playing for the team that
drafted them by twenty eight, letalone thirty Album said at the back end
of his career, thirty, it'sreally rare. Even if he's a Max
player, he plays four years untilhe's twenty two, he gets a Super

(23:19):
Max and that's five more years.He's twenty seven, he's still three years
away from being thirty, and youhaving to worry about any of the issues
with his knee, as far asthe as far as the cardinalit issue go,
as far as that issue goes,So that makes no sense. If
the problem is as m Raphael Barrowellreported that he's a quiet kid, that's

(23:40):
not a problem for me at all. Even worse, that's even worse.
And if it's that he was unimpressiveand workout, I mean, then it
makes sense that that he fell tothe rockets, because we know the Rockets
don't really care. It's nineteen ninepercent tape and one percent workouts. There's
two more rumors that are on itaddress people within draft draft circles say that

(24:00):
Vilanova was spreading like just terrible Vilanovacoaches were spreading terrible reviews of it,
which is more of an inductment ofthe coaches than it is on the player,
because what coaching staff does that Ifyou're not wild to your players,
what are you doing in that?I wonder how the recruiting efforts are going
to go moving forward with that area lot to be true, and some
of that's just the natural tension withone and done. I mean, that's

(24:23):
part of why you're seeing the overtimeelite type leagues and the G League ignite
model take off some coaches and theyshould be used to it by now,
But yeah, there is a littlebit at tension when the guys obviously one
and done and you're blending it withguys that are there for you know,
three or four years, and you'retrying to build a program, so to
speak. And of course it's notthe player's fault. That's the system,

(24:44):
but yeah, there is a littlebit. It shouldn't happen, but it
has happened before. Sometimes you dohave these coaches that take it a little
bit personally when in reality it's thesystem. And that's why guys like Comin
Thompson and Jalen Green go the otherroute. They just say, you know
what, it's not worth dealing withall of that. And perhaps Cam whatmore
is another guy who you know againsort of getting singled out and scapegoaded for
something that's just sort of like,well, this is the system and you

(25:06):
got to deal with it. AndVillanova, you know, they did lose
Jay right a couple of years ago, so you know, there's just somewhat
new administration in place. Maybe that'swhat happened. I don't know for sure,
but it's at least plausible, it'shappened before. Yeah, and and
the transitions didn't mean to my lastpoint about him, which well, first
of all, the last thing thatpeople talk about is that he is that

(25:26):
he didn't work out, didn't doesn'twork really hard in workouts, which is
tough to believe considering he is arip two thirty five sixty seven. Yeah,
but but even not considering that he'salso eighteen years old, and who
knows what you were doing when youwere eighteen years old with the pressure of
the world on your fielders, you'reabout to be a millionaire, and so
even like, the talent is veryclearly there, and even if he were

(25:48):
to fall, falling all the wayto twenty is ridiculous. And we know
we know that Ralpha Elstone was tryingto trade up. It was reported there
were two teams reportedly trying to tradeup. And yeah, the Rockets,
who are described by Gavonia as oneof the most conservative people when it comes
to medicals, which means if that'sif something were wrong, they would have
found out and if it was worthnot drafting him, they wouldn't know.

(26:11):
And the other teams, the Pacers, the team that you know just recently
famously totally the Rockets for Carol Sklifford. Their medicals were so and then their
tests were so in depth that theyfound they found out that Carol Skofford had
something related to cancer that he hadto go address before he played at the
Pacers that held up the trade.That I'm sure everybody remembers this. So
if these are the two teams thatwere looking to trade up and both of

(26:33):
them got to work with him outand test him and look at his medicals,
that I'm perfectly fine with this scenario. And it really it really makes
you think that the Rockets tanked forthree years. And I don't think there's
anybody out there that would argue thatin twenty twenty one, Killing Green was
a top ten talent and now brenchEngland is a top ten talent out of

(26:56):
that draft. Ye that last yearTargason is easily top ten thound and that
Kibari in reraft would still go topten sure, and in this year nobody
would argue because you can go backand look at the mock drafts going into
the draft, no one will willargue that I'm in Thompson is a top
ten talent coming out of the draftand nobody will argue that it was or
in the same surprise that kem withMoore didn't go top ten. So yeah,

(27:18):
you've got chart top ten guys inthree straight years. And you did
so now like the Magic who hadpick six and pick eleven and then had
pick four and pick eight the yearbefore or two years ago. It happened
with one top five pick and onepick outside the water room, and you
converted that into top two top tenthousand and eight drafts. So that's in
three years, six top ten worthyplayers. There are teams that are rebuilding

(27:41):
that get one top ten pick ayear and it's not even a top one.
I mean, the gazz got pickednine. The Washington Wizards haven't got
into the top pick in a while. It's always eight or seven or nine
or something like that. And soto get that type of town, it's
really in that in an indictment,under non indictment, it's it's a opposite
of an indictment. It speaks welland how they manage assets and they're scouting,

(28:07):
and it also makes me happy thatthey found the talent. And this
was a problem earlier on, butnow it's kind of fixed. They found
the talent spread out across multiple positions. They have a Men Thompson that's clearly
a point guard. They have toit's clearly a shooting guard. They have
Darvison who's a three or four,Jabari Smith who's a three or four.
They have a center in Albranchengun Andand they have Kem Whitmore who is a

(28:30):
two or three and might be ableto play the four because he's really bulky,
but he's six seven. It's it'sit's not guaranteed there and so he's
moving forward. What else do youreally want? And I know it's probably
because he couldn't, but it endedup really paying off waiting for him at

(28:51):
twenty and that has to be somethingfishy going on that there's always someone to
fall through the rockets in there.In there, like just outside the lot
three things look just a couple ofthings on the medicals. I do think
we've seen some evidence in recent years, and there were some draft analysts I
follow on Twitter making the same pointthat teams do overcompensate, especially I think

(29:12):
sometimes what happens you had gms thatdon't want a complete bust. If it
goes wrong, then ultimately an ownermay be angry and say, why did
you take this guy when he can'teven play? And so some of them
just have sort of an aversion torisk, and they'll go for a guy
who may not have the ceiling ofa camp wit More or anything close,
but has a higher floor because thereis going to be availability. And we've

(29:34):
seen this again. You can goback to twenty eighteen with Michael Porter Jr.
Who just started for the Nuggets.There were the back concerns and he
has had a back surgery since goinginto the NBA, but clearly the talent
was worth it. We'll see howmuch he holds up long term, but
regardless, the Nuggets already have achampionship out of it. I think spending
the number fourteen pick was worthwhile.We saw last year, you know,
even if we exclude rockets examples.Talking specifically to medicals, we saw aj

(29:56):
Griffin fall to the Hawks at sixteen, and he shot nearly forty percent on
threes as a rookie and showed alot of promise. Again, I think
it's a combination of once a guystarts falling and the NBA has a very
limited time on the clock. We'retalking just five minutes. There's a lot
of sort of being skinnish, andyou combine that with gms who don't want

(30:18):
to be held responsible everybody sort ofthings. And as you mentioned Polo,
it's not like in many cases becausethe guy is falling out of his projected
range, he hasn't worked out ormet with these teams, so they don't
really know him that well. Anda GM doesn't want to be responsible if
things go terribly and you know,ultimately an owner a few years down the
line says other teams didn't draft himbecause of X reason? Why did you?

(30:38):
Why did we waste to pick ona guy who doesn't play? Even
if it's a scenario it's probably notgoing to happen again. There's sort of
an aversion to risk. And thenthe final point that I would make,
once you get into the teams,typically, and I think this was definitely
the case this year, you finda lot of teams that are drafting for
more high floor guys. You lookat the Pelicans with Jordan Hawkins, if

(30:59):
they're going to keep things together withBrandon Ingram and Zion Williamson, and it
looks like they're going to run itback again when the Rockets, by the
way, to close the loop onnumber four, and they were talking about
potentially you had some reports a weekor so ago the Rockets looking to move
up. I don't think it wasbecause they wanted to prospect other Noman Thompson.
No, it was that, asI mentioned at the time, they
wanted to at least understand what theprice would be for Zion and say what

(31:21):
you will about the risk. Whenhe's right, he can be the best
player on a championship team. Ifirmly believe that. I think the Rockets
do as well, and so it'sat least worth the phone call to understand.
Even if ultimately the risk reward balancejust isn't quite in alignment, you
should at least find out. Butas far as this draft, look,
if the Pelicans are going to runit back with Zion and Brandon Ingram,
then yeah, a high floor guylike Jordan Hawkins may make sense. And

(31:42):
then you look at teams right infront of the Rockets, Miami, Golden
State, the Lakers. These areteams that are trying to make a run
in the very near future, andso they may not want an eighteen year
old that has a bit more ofa learning curves. Sure, he's higher
ceiling, but not one, especiallywith some of the tunnel vision concerns that
may be a big difference maker atleast in terms of contributing to winning year

(32:06):
one. So they go with someof these specialists, guys that are a
bit more plug in play, especiallyearly on in their careers. We know
the new CBA is forcing teams tobasically replenish their role players from the end,
like we saw with Christian Brown andthe Nuggets this past season when they
won the championship, and we sawthe Nuggets getting more late first round slash
high second round picks to get readyfor losing guys like Bruce Brown to free

(32:30):
agency and so on and so forth, And so I think it's just sort
of the perfect storm. There's arisk aversion. People don't know what's happening.
The clock moves pretty fast. Thisis not the NFL where you have
fifteen minutes between picks and you canactually try to make phone calls and figure
out what is and isn't accurate,and so I think there can be a
little bit of a panic in realtime. Thankfully, the Rockets had done

(32:51):
their homework. And again with theRockets, being a rebuilding team. It
also made it all the easier forthe Rockets to take that bigger swing because
there's not those year one expectations.You can bring him along a bit more
slowly. It's not going to phasethe Rockets that much. That he's eighteen
years old. Now. I didthink that was a slight drawback when it
came to comparing and contrasting Aman Thompsonto Whitmore at number four. I think
I'm in almost being twenty one andCam being eighteen. That was a bit

(33:13):
of a drawback for a Rockets teamthat's so young already. You needed also
the court vision and the broader skills, the playmaking of Aman versus another guy
in Whitmore who certainly could be specialas an athlete and a scorer. But
it isn't that different than some ofthe guys you already have. But if
we're talking about again at pick twenty, being able to bring him along slowly,

(33:35):
then that's a completely different ball game. If you can, and you
may have to move a Jason Tador kJ Martin to free up some additional
playing time. We'll talk about thatmore next week. By the way,
we'll have a pre free agency episodegoing into what they may do with signing
veterans, trading guys off the currentteam, and so on and so forth.
But as far as just the overallCam Whitmore pick, if you can
take him in the middle too latefirst round, that's a home run for

(33:58):
the Rockets, especially with limited expectatiansday one, and that made it all
the easier for the Rockets to takethe risk in a way that other teams
might not have. The last pointI'll make on the injuries, I mentioned
a couple of comps in Michael PorterJr. And AJ Griffin, guys that
fell to about the same approximate rangea lot more than they should have in
hindsight, the absolute worst case scenarioif we want to talk specifically about knee

(34:20):
cartilage in sort of a degenerative kneeissue. Rockets fans will be very familiar
with Chandler Parsons, who had hiscareer fall apart in the middle of the
twenty ten shortly after leaving Houston andsigning big deals with the Dallas Mavericks and
then the Memphis Grizzlies. Parsons wasa very very good NBA player until twenty
sixteen. That was the turning pointat the start of that season, he

(34:43):
was twenty eight years old. CamWhitmore is eighteen. Even if the absolute
worst case scenario happens, if thisis something we're talking about, that's tenish
years away. Again, as youmentioned, what are the odds that he's
even going to be here anyway?That's another reason why it's so silly,
And saw some draft analysts on Twittermaking the same point. Why are you
so worried about the medicals for aguy who's unlikely to be with one organization

(35:08):
for that long in the first place. So to me, again, when
you combine the timeliness the recent injuryhistory, there's a lot of guys who
have been passed over with similar profileswho to this point have turned out just
fine. And then his skills asa player, yet another athlete, creative
scorer, someone that could potentially stretchthe floor, defend at a high level,
a lot of length, seems tohave a great attitude. To me,

(35:30):
that's an A plus pick. Notthat Aman wasn't, but at least
that's what you would expect at numberfour. To get someone like Kim Whitmore
at pick twenty, that's an Aplus plus to me, yeah, and
speak to the Tenderlor Parsons example,he was the thirty eighth pick, so
he was a second round pick.He didn't get the same attention as a
guy like Kem Whitmore is going toget, especially now that the problems is

(35:52):
already you know, no no back, so he's going to get all the
care in the world to macure.They play around. It got too and
and the came with more discussion bysaying, I don't think we've seen I
don't I ever since I've been anNBA fan, I've never seen something like
this, Like it's hard to putinto perspective what a guy that you were
going to take it for fall intotwenty means because the NBA, like it's

(36:16):
it's hard to be even put upan MLB or on an NFL comparison,
because the NB only has two rounds. He felt basically like one fourth of
the entire draft in the first round. He felt like fifteen spots on what
he was protected to be. Thefirst round probably has thirty spots, and
that's only sixty spots in total.I can't remember a single example of someone

(36:37):
who's protecting to go top five fallingthat much and don't tell me it's the
same thing as bullball, because aguy that's supposed to go end of the
lottery to fall to the second roundcan happen. Usually guys not mock top
five unless he's a pretty surified thing. So it's to me it's it's an
A plus. It's what it's like, a once in a decade thing that

(36:58):
happened, and the Rockets have totake conventative yep. And I think it's
important to underscore what a win thisis for rathfael Stone, who we did
about six months ago when some ofthe heat really started getting turned up on
Raffel leading up to the trade deadlinethis year, there were reports about him
intervening too much at practice, andof course I think some of that can

(37:19):
be explained by the fact that theyobviously did not trust Stephen Silas, but
for various reasons that we've discussed inthe past, they didn't want to make
an end season change. Regardless,he went out this offseason. Well,
I guess before that he made theGordon trade, which we'll touch on in
a minute, that was instrumental ingetting you Cam Whitmore this great pick and
getting you to where you are today. He also nailed the head coaching search
with emay Udoka, and so tome, beyond just the talented players the

(37:45):
Rockets have brought in, and youlook at the bigger picture, it's such
an exciting time to be a fanof Houston Rockets basketball because this offseason and
really the last six months has broughtin so much trust, equity, or
at least it should have. Yousaw Rafaelstone nail this draft, he nailed
the coaching search. We'll see whathappens with free agency in a week,

(38:06):
but this is a string of winsfor him that should be celebrated. And
again I understand, you know,if you go back six months, I
understand some of the skepticism. Notall the reporting was great, and you
had the John Wall interview as well. And again, Rafael Stone didn't have
a long track record in terms ofdecisions that could be conclusively tied to him
prior to being GM of the Rockets. Who's basically just Gerald Morey's number two

(38:29):
for a couple of years. Itwas tough to say exactly what he had
proven before. And even though thecontext of rebuilding was obvious, look,
some of the things did not gowell, heath the GM. The buck
stops with him, and so I'mnot necessarily saying that anyone was wrong to
raise questions. Again, it's fairto be skeptical. So I'm not necessarily
trying to dunk on anyone that wasskeptical of Rafel six months ago. No,

(38:52):
it's completely reasonable to have questions.But I do think that we should
celebrate the fact that some of thesequestions are being answered in a more positive
way. And to go back sixmonths, that's all we were arguing.
It's not so much that either ofus were saying that Roffel was the world's
greatest GM. No, it's thathe had shown enough positives to give him
a bit more rope to see someof these transactions through and to see what

(39:14):
the ultimate outcome is. Because lookthe moves a GM makes, it typically
takes years to truly understand who wonand lost a transaction. Many times there's
draft assets, and it may takeeven ten fifteen years to see what happens
with all these guys and how theydevelop. There's so many variables at play,
there's so many things that can change. There's a class half full case,

(39:35):
there's a class half empty case forpretty much everybody, and so it
can take a while for so manydecisions that a GM makes to truly be
judge. Raffell made the point andhe got ratio to oblivion on Twitter,
but he was right that as faras judging the hardened trade, which was
largely draft equity, to fully dothat you would need to come back in
ten years. And people were like, Oh, you're going to around in

(40:00):
ten years, And I don't thinkhe was saying that. No, he
understands that there's some level of practicalityinto this business. From an ownership perspective,
Tillman Fertida's not going to give himan unlimited leash. At some point
the team has got to show something. But in terms of actually judging the
transaction in just a strict access andoth sense, how did this work out

(40:20):
on the basketball floor? How manywins did it give you? How many
wins did it cost you. Look, it takes a lot of time to
see how these picks develop. Andthat's true of anything or most trades,
especially in today's NBA where draft equityis becoming more and more important, where
that ties in with the Cam Whitmoreselection. You don't make that pick without
the pick swap obtained for Eric Gordonat the trade deadline, which was clearly

(40:44):
worth a future first runt pick.We know this because Indiana has said that
they were trying to move up forCam Whitmore and couldn't. The Rockets were
as well those teams, and theteams really valued their picks. It wasn't
like you saw other people that werehaving an easy time moving up into that
range. While on some level theRockets might have gotten a bit lucky or

(41:05):
at least just in the right situation, right place, right time, with
Whitmore falling to twenty and some ofthe teams in front of them being a
bit more risk averse for various reasons. I think for starters you have to
be prepared to take advantage of thatluck. The teams in front of the
Rockets were not, and maybe theylook silly in a few years. On
some level, you know luckets wherea preparation meets opportunity. There is some
truth, and that's saying, butbeyond that, look the reason they were

(41:28):
there. Objectively, they traded EricGordon for the right to move from the
Bucks pick at number thirty to theClippers pick that was at number twenty and
that was one of the most micromanageddecisions of rockfall Stones entire Rockets tenure,
which at three seasons is still relativelyyoung, basically just two and a half
years. Because of the COVID timetable. They didn't take Overndle very late twenty

(41:50):
twenty. People wondered did he holdon to Eric Gordon too long? Should
they have traded him in twenty twentytwo when he was having his best season
at least from an efficiency standpoint along time. He set a price on
what Gordon was worth a legitimate firstround asset, and that's what it would
have taken to move up from thirtyto where the Rockets picked with more twenty.
In fact, it might have takenmore than that, based on the

(42:12):
fact that we know teams tried tomove up and couldn't. He got what
it took. He did the dealat the right time. He was able
to get in the range of thedraft to strike. Is there a little
bit of luck involved, for sure, But at the end of the day,
look a GM, as we talkedabout with you know where Fell's common
about the hardened trade and come backin ten years. Some of the way

(42:32):
GMS are judged is based on luck. That's always the way it's going to
be in a business where if youwanted to be truly fair, you would
wait ten to fifteen years and someof these mega trades to really evaluate.
We all know that owners and fansdon't have that kind of time. It's
a business that's going to reward andsometimes punish short term results. So yeah,

(42:53):
there is some luck to it,but that's how the industry works,
That's how it's always worked. Thebottom line is that this is one of
the first I would say, highprofile decisions of Rothael Stone's tenure that we
can judge through its entirety, throughthe entire cycle. And I feel pretty
confident in saying that they got themost out of the Eric Gordon asset to

(43:15):
get Cam whitmore out of Eric Gordon. That's or Eric Gordon and the bucks
pick. That's really really good GMing. And even if you want to tie
it all the way back to howthey got that rockets pick which or how
they got that bucks pick, excuseme, it goes all the way back
to the offshoot of the James Hardentrade where they ditched Jared Allen to the
Cavaliers and they get a twenty totwenty two Bucks pick. Eventually they flip

(43:37):
that into a twenty twenty three topush it back a year. Look,
I would rather have Cam Whitmore forevery building situation like the Rockets. I
would rather a stud prospect like CamWhitmore at eighteen than Jared Allen at twenty
million dollars a year and Eric Gordon, because again, you can find guys
like Jared Allen the Rockets maybe aboutto sign Brook Lopez for about the same

(44:00):
cost, you can't find high upsideprospects like Cam Whitpore. So to me,
even if you want to tie itall the way back to how the
Rockets got that Bucks pick in thefirst place and try and include Jared Allen
in it, I still think it'sa clear win for the Rockets in the
context of their rebuild, and soit should build a lot of trust equity

(44:20):
in Raffaelstone. A lot of themoves he's made, it's going to take
a lot more time to see howthey work out. And the same can
be said for his draft picks.How does Jalen Green develop? How does
your develop? How to shouldn't goand develop? How does I'm and Thompson
develop and so on and so forth. That's going to take time. But
with this Eric Gordon situation, andI would argue, even going back to
the Jared Allen situation, we canobjectively say now that those are wins for

(44:42):
Rofelstone and that should build him sometrust equity with the fan base, and
overall, I think it should makefans a bit more confident in the rebuild
moving forward. Yeah, you'd donework right, and then the people that
don't like raf Elston will surely tellyou, oh, he got lucky.
Well, the Golden State Warriors atnineteen got lucky, and the Miami Hit
at eighteen gold lucky, and theLakers at seventeen also gotwucky. In the

(45:04):
Jazz at sixteen also gotwacky. Youknow the point I'm making. They could
have all drafted him, but nobodydid. So there is that an element
of work that he felt, yes, but there's always there's also an element
of he took advantage of it,and nineteen other teams before him didn't.
So that's the first thing that Iwant to get out of the way.
The second thing that it shows itcommanded and came with more. But the

(45:25):
process that we got that we wentthrough to get there is not a process
that many teams in the NBA rightnow would have achieved because it's a lot
of little advantagies that we gained thatturned into this. For example, the
first one is taking advantage of aswap sometimes depending on how it pays off,

(45:45):
being worth more than an outright forshrount pick. If we're talking this
way into the drive, because theBucks pick, which is the orison No
pick we had was thirty, andthis was twenty, And if the Pacers
are the twenty and the Rockets wereat thirty, or if the Clippers were
at twenty and the Rocket to athirty, they would not accept too late
for shround picks, which is whatthey had for any recorded earlier. They

(46:06):
would not accept that for pick twenty, especially with Ken with Moore being dead,
so Hugh. They basically what theydid is they got for shrounp pick
value, but it got the extravalue of actually getting the other team automatically
to say yes to a trade upbefore the draft even started, because that's
basically what a swap is. It'sa trade up before the draft stump starts,
and usually teams don't do trades withdraft picks before the draft starts.

(46:29):
Why because they never know if whenit came, with most situations going to
happen. So extracting value out ofa swap rather than getting an outright for
shround pick takes vision that a lotof an office lt tept don't have the
PK. Sucker trade or before that, Garrett Allen and Torrian Primps were traded
for the Cliff to the Equiland Cavaliersfor the first round pick from the Bucks.

(46:51):
That was last year, and thenwhen the Rockets had to trade PJ.
Tucker once again, they could haveseek the first round pick, but
instead what they did they get theyget They got a trade up in that
same year in twenty twenty one fromthe top of the second round to the
late first round and what else didthey get, which also shows a lot
of foresight and and I'm not surehow many I've never heard of front office

(47:13):
doing this before. They pushed backthe Bucks pick by one year, which
means that last year, when theRockets had three first round picks, they
would have had four had they hadthey not made that move, and they
were already trying to get rid ofone of their three personround picks last year.
The imagine what would have happened ifthey had four instead. It would
be even harder the market, themarketplace would be even more crowded. They

(47:35):
regarded an even worse return for it. So pushing the pick from twenty twenty
two to twenty twenty three might havewent under a lot of people's radars,
but it proved key to get income with more this year. And so
it's the combination of a lot ofmoves that a bathroom office would not make
and a lot of small edges thatcompounded that compounder compounded into a home run.

(47:58):
And I think that cannot be understate it because you may mismis evaluate
talent, but knowing all of thetools to at your disposal as at them
is key. And as much asthat is expected in today's NBA, there's
a reason for an office like theRockets was able to make all of these
moves that most people don't even understand, and you basically never see other fron

(48:20):
officers to take that same thing.All right, So let's wind down the
podcast by talking about what's up nextfor Rothfelstone, which is free agency.
Now, I know from his perspective, it's sort of concurrent because we all
know in June a lot of thesedeals are getting negotiated all around the NBA.
It's just about the player finally makinga decision as far as which offer
he's going to take, seeing ifanother team is going to offer war at

(48:40):
the last minute, or perhaps hehas a change of heart. But the
bottom line is the terms are beingput in place right now, and then
ultimately as we get close to nextFriday, June thirtieth, when free agency
agreements can officially be reached, Ibelieve starting at five pm Central time,
we'll see what actually happens. Buta lot of the con trucks are being
put together right now. So it'ssomething that Rafel probably as we speak,

(49:04):
is working on with his team,Eli White's as well. He's Houston's contract
guru, and they put together somevery creative contracts in recent years. But
look to this point in the offseason, they nailed the coach and search,
they nailed the draft. Free agencyis up next, and I think,
as I just mentioned a few minutesago, Raffel has built up a lot
of trust equity. However, there'salso a new complication when you bring in

(49:25):
not just one but two stud prospects, two of the upper echelon guys and
Ahmand Thompson and Cam Whitmore, allof a sudden there is a bit of
a log jam with the roster.We already talked about needing to move at
least one of kJ Martin and jSchounteth the overlap at the forward spots.
You already Havebari Smith Junior and LarryEson too, promising rookies from last year.
Now you add in Whitmore as well. I think you definitely need to

(49:47):
move at least one of those guys, and you can make a case for
both honestly if you wanted to.This is a roster that's getting very,
very deep, and you also haveto worry about clearing starters minutes, maybe
not immediately, at least have theoptionality if a guy that's a huge part
of your future, like Amon Thompson, like Kim Whitmore, proves ready sooner
than you think, then, asyou mentioned earlier, Palo, those guys

(50:08):
are going to be given the tiebreakers. If it's even close. You're going
to err on the side of aprospect that's so important to your long term
future and ultimately, but what youhope is your championship puzzle in a few
years. So based on adding anotherreally important upper echelon asset, I mean,
I think you can throw Kim Whitmoreright into the mix with you know,
we thought the Rockets were adding justone to their I would say top

(50:30):
tier of the young core, thetop tier I considered going into the offseason,
Jalen Green, Jabari Smith, Junior, All pren Shingoon, Chari Eason.
You agree with me on that,yeah, I would say something,
yeah, those are your four Andeveryone thought going into the offseason you would
add one more blue chip in termsof the draft, that being whoever you
take it for that was Amon Thompson, and then the rust would be free

(50:52):
agency. When now all of asudden, you added two blue chips.
Maybe Whitmore at eighteen is a bitmore raw. And again, as I've
reported in the past, you're notguaranteeing any of the rookies this year the
thirty minutes per game that you gaveto Jalen and Jabari, because you're actually
trying to win. It's not tanking. Ujoka really wants to put a priority
on winning in the short term promotingcompetition. That's why you could see brook

(51:14):
Lopez brought in even though the Rocketshave all perin Shungoon. I think they
want these guys to compete with oneanother. And if shangoon and is at
being better than brook Lopez, thenthat's a good problem to have. But
he's going to have to earn thoseminutes. The same goes for everybody else.
But look, if you've got sixyoung guys that you're trying to develop,
it's not so much that the Rocketswould ball get bringing in anyone for
this coming season, because the oddsare pretty convincing that at least one of

(51:39):
your true rookies and perhaps both,aren't going to be ready for major minutes
next season. That's just the reality. Most rookies do not contribute to winning
that much in year one, andthe Rockets would be lucky have one of
those two between Dominen cam Is letalone both. But I do think that,
you know, you have to beopen minded to the fact that by
next season or the year after that, and when I say next season,
I mean twenty twenty four, twentyfive, or twenty two to twenty six,

(52:00):
that yeah, you may have toopen up playing time for those guys
as they grow ready of making theleap. And if that's the case the
guys you signed this offseason, Idon't want to sign that you sign a
bunch of guys to one year dealsbecause quite frankly, I don't see the
point. You don't even have birdrights on them at the end of that.
But I do think that, youknow, two years might be the

(52:22):
sweet spot because in twenty twenty fiveyou would have early bird rights if you
want to keep those guys. However, would also give you optionality and that
if you need to move one ofthose guys because Kem Whitmore, Roman Thompson
is ready sooner than you think,then on a two year deal, those
guys, worst case, should bemovable as expiring contracts in that twenty twenty
four to twenty twenty five season.I think that's very foreseeable and something the

(52:42):
Rockets have to keep in mind.You know. Let's look, that's you,
the Brook Lopez and all prins Shingoon. Everyone is throwing out this debate
on Twitter, saying what happens,Well, here's the deal. If Shungoon
is as good as you think andproves worthy of being like a thirty to
thirty five minutes per game hub atrue star in the making. If he
really is your version of Nicola Yokich, then you can move for Klopez a

(53:05):
year from now. If he's onsay a two year, forty million dollars
deal, which is sort of theframework that I've heard and seen tossed about
on social media, that's a movabledeal, and I think that's something that
may keep the Rockets out of themarket for the true top tier guys.
It's why they're not going to offera four year max to James Harden or
Kyrie Irving. I don't think theywould to Fred van Fleet either, even
though I do think they like himat least in an abstract sense as far

(53:28):
as the fit he could provide defensivelyand you know, he's a point guard
without being super ball Domin. Thenhe can shoot the Rockets. Believe the
percentages are a bit deflated based onthe shot quality and some of the things
he had to do in Toronto.But look, I think they have to
draw a firm line and talks becauseif bomb and Thompson proves worthy of more
reps by a year or so fromnow, and Fred Van fleets on a
three or four year deal, thenyou may have a tough time moving him.

(53:50):
And so I think, you know, two year deals in particular,
that's sort of the sweet spot tome, because worst case, those guys
are going to be expiring contracts ayear from now, you can easily move
them at the young guys proof worthyof more minutes. Maybe you consider a
three year if you feel really goodabout the contract value. But the bottom
line is be a positive trade valuefrom the contract or simply they're expiring,
and so they're movable. Because ofthat, the Rockets do need better and

(54:13):
help. They do want to promotecompetition. They know these rookies aren't going
to be that good next season.But I do think it sort of underscores
even more this idea that you're goingto have to be responsible and how you
give out that money, because youdo have to prepare for the fact that,
you know, a year from now, two years from now, whenever
it may be, you may needto move some of these guys to open
up a bigger role for the youngguys. And so that's the balance that
Raphael Stone has to strike as hegoes out and you know, probably spends

(54:37):
sixty million dollars plus the room exception. The rockets have all these financial tools
at their disposal, but you haveto balance that against the flexibility to move
on and turn the page completely tothe young guys when they're ready. That's
how I'm looking at it. Isthere anything I'm missing in that calculus?
Yeah? I think you'll make thebiggest point, which is you want you
do want to bring in vets kindof place a glass ceiling on the young

(54:59):
place that you have that at ourready to win now yet, but you
want the glass ceiling to be madeof breakaway glass. So if they are
good enough, you're able to moveon. And that comes from giving them
to your deals even if they're inflated. If you need to pay a ten
percent premium to get a guy ora fifteen percent premium to get a guy
to sign for last years, thenI would say you do it because you're

(55:20):
going to struggle to spend the castplays you have on quality players. So
you don't want to bring a lotof quantity. You want to bring in
quality because you have so many playersthat in rotation spots. And so I
think brook Lopez makes makes all ofthe sense in the world. I know
people hate the idea, and Iknow people usually tie me lacking the idea
with me. No, Atin Shingohas nothing to do with it. We
know they are going to bring ina guy that that that brings something that

(55:43):
opercod doesn't have, and brook Lopezdoes the exact opposite of what He's places
the floor and he's a terrific ringprotector. He will second in the differensive
Point of the Year vote this year, So he brings a completely different dimension
to your team while the Rocks aretrying to figure out who they are,
having different options makes sense from atrying to win standpoint. Having diffferent opistms

(56:06):
makes sense because it's just more flexible. And we've I mean, everybody knows
flexibility is key. And if you'reit's considering you're going after someone of a
different arch type. So you couldargue that Nasi it's an option. Well,
Nazi is going to be looking tomake as much money as he can
for as long as he can becausethis is the first contract affort rookie here
and normally that as I said,Nasbid is going to be a lot cheaper.

(56:29):
But that doesn't really matter to us, because we're not going to bring
in more than three or four guys, and you're going to struggle to spend
sixty million caps basically just two inhistory or four guys if you were if
you were going to play ten milliona year, you to bring in six
guys and that's just not feasible.So I think PROCOPEUS likes a lot of
sense. But then especially with Cam, with more coming now, and with

(56:51):
having kJ Martin and we having Kishanta, it strengthens my argument that from before
the draft that the own Brooks tome makes even less saw. And part
of the reason why I only wanttwo year deals is because unless you're sure
that it's a home run or thatit's a guy that's going to fit into
any team, in which case youcould go for a four year deal and

(57:13):
a guy like Bruce Brown or CamJohnson. If you're going after a guy
like the Eland Brooks, you wantthem to be first. You want him
to be aware that he only hastwo years on his deal, and if
he is too antagonistic or if herefuses to play the role that you ask
him too, well, he's goingto be a free agent again and you're
not, and you're not going tohave the glowing review from his previous team.
You want to be able to getoff of if need peek, and

(57:34):
I know the Oland Brooks is likelyto come. But I would rather target
guys that can shoot because we haveand that is the priority compared to defense,
because we have pointy of guys thatcan play defense, but their shouts
are questionable. I think I thinkthis roster's built with them. I mean
that Reason is one of them.Cleipart Smith is one of them. Kayla
Martin's one of them. Can withMarshman to be one of them, even
though I think he was a Hewas a great year out of high school,

(57:58):
but then it almost about thirty fivepercent, which is not terrible,
but not great in college. SoI don't love the idea of the one
Brooks, but I'm okay with itif it's if it's a two year deal,
because well it's not franchise dooming.It's not a big deal. If
it goes wrong, it goes wrong, it doesn't have a huge cost for
you to get out of, andso you take a shot. Maybe maybe

(58:22):
he cleans up the shot selection andhe's a terrific player, And in that
case even if someone one of theyoung guys is good enough to take those
minutes, well, you made anasset, and so that's the best,
the best of both worlds. They'reyoung guys good The guy who have is
also good who can trade the oneBrooks for an asset, But then you
are making an asset. That's that'san important point. Again, I've said

(58:42):
a number of times in most situations, I don't think a one year deal
is worth it. Number one,I don't think you're going to be in
the class of players that you needto materially improve your chances of winning next
season. Most guys that are differencemakers have the leverage to get multi year
deals, and then if you geta two year deal, to me,
that's a sweet spot. You don'thave any long term commitment there, but
you do have early bird rights,which gives you the optionality to keep him

(59:05):
if he turned out to be atrue difference maker, and it also should
bolster that player being an asset.You mentioned flipping Dylan Brooks later on.
If you know he's not a longterm guy, then if the team acquiring
him has his early bird rights,if he's playing well, he's on the
straight and narrow. Then if theteam acquiring him has early bird rights,
then that makes him, you know, more of an asset to them because
they think they can keep him,which would not be the case if it's
on a one year So I thinkto me, two years is the sweet

(59:28):
spot when you consider all of thosedynamics, which happens, especially for those
who don't know how bird rights work. It works especially well if you're going
to slightly overpay for for someone becausethey'll still be an asset, won't be
as good of an asset, They'llstill be an asset. And the way
bird rights work is not bird rights, early bird rights, which is what
you get after two years. Right, you're able to offer the average salary

(59:51):
at the position, or you're ableto offer the highest of the average salary
at the position, and I thinkone hundred and five percent or one hundred
in ten percent of that previous sellur. You can also offer less. So
if you're slightly overpaying them, it'snot like a Bruce Brown situation where you're
not going to be where you're notgoing to be able to retain them because

(01:00:13):
he just overperformed this contract by nomore than likely he's not going to perform
the contract, then it's going tobe able to bring them any but if
it's at a lower price than hiscurrent contract. And then the last point
I'll make really quick is don't bescared to spend your cap Space taking on
an asset if that asset can contributeto your team. And I'm talking about
the Kyle Larries of the world.No longer Chris Paul because well I'm not

(01:00:36):
going to talk about it on thispodcast because it's it's sacrilegious. Why is
he a Warrior now? But whatever, if it's fredent Lee, I'm not
the biggest fan. As I said, Ideally, want a guy that's going
to be okay, going to thebent levam and sometimes too good, too
early. But if it's him andit's a two year deal, once again,
no ore no foul. Ideally,a go after a guy like Tias

(01:00:57):
Jones or Monte Marris who aren't theWizards, who going to rebuild and I
basically holding a fire sale. Youcan take them into cap Space and they
are that type of guy that youcan start them and they're good enough to
start and be a caretaker. Butif him and Thompson is showing signs that
he's ready to start. You cansign them to the bents and you're you're
not making them angry at their rolebecause that's the role that they have played
at an above above the level eventplayer. But they've played on the event

(01:01:22):
because they had starts ahead of them. So that makes sense to me as
well. And multiple went this moreon our free agency pod next week.
But some of these situations, youmay be able to take on a so
called bad contract to help somebody outwith their financial situation and get an asset
to give you a future draft consideration. We saw how much it paid off
when they moved Ic Gordon this yearand got the pick swap that moved them

(01:01:43):
up in position to get Kim Whitmore. Maybe you get a similar pick swap
in a future year that can helpyou out for taking on somebody's bad contract.
Because one thing the Rockets have,they have a lot of needs.
They certainly need a big although wehope that's Proklopez. They need shooting up
and down the roster. You canput so much rim pressure right now between
Jalen Green, I'm and Thompson andCam what more. You've got all these
athletic slashers, so you need guysthat can space the four shooting basically everywhere.

(01:02:05):
You need more defensive toughness, Ineed the four general. So between
all those needs, you might beable to find a guy who's a pretty
good player but just isn't a financialfit where he is, and maybe you
get an asset for taking them on. Yeah, I think that that makes
a lot of sense. As Isaid, as long as they're not making
long term commitments with players that hamstringyour ability to be flexible in yours construction,

(01:02:27):
then it's going to be fine becauseeven if it doesn't work out,
you can need to trade them.It's kind of the same thing. It's
just a wasted opportunity, right,rather than rather than an actual mistake.
It's like the Daniel Thigh steal.Right, steel was not the end of
the world. Right, he didn'tturn out to be a good player,
and you lost three that played exceptionfor it, which is not much.

(01:02:50):
Usually they don't amount to nothing.But at the same time, he didn't
cost you anything to move, andso that that's just there's just no problem
with it. Just move along andyou're not team a franchise. So with
free agency, people usually expect ateam to both of themselves and to become
a lot better, but a lotof the it's not just a zero and
upward scenario. There's the negatives aswell, and you could hamstring yourself with

(01:03:13):
a contract that that's a very realisticpossibility that you don't want to have on
your team. And the Rockets stillthat firsthand with the Rann Interscent contract.
So yeah, all right, Well, we will put a bow on this
episode right here, because we're goingto be back in the middle to early
portion of next week with a bitmore free agency analysis. We touched on
a few possibilities this episode, butwe'll go more into depth on that front

(01:03:36):
in a few days. I thinkwe can spend the weekend trying to rust
up a bit after the draft andthen look through the possibilities. As far
as we know, the headliners FedVan Fleet, Dylan Brooks, brook Lopez,
we talked about them for a fewweeks. Perhaps James Hardens still in
the mix, but there's definitely alot of other possibilities, both in the
free agency market and trades. Perhapsthe Rockets can take a slightly overpaid contract
unto their books for an asset.As I was just describing lots of possibilities,

(01:03:59):
and so we'll talk we're about thatin the coming week as we gear
up for the opening of free agencynegotiations, which will be next Friday night,
June thirtieth. With that, wewill adjourn here for Paulo I'm Ben.
If you want more content from usbefore our next episode, the best
place to get it is on Twitter. You can follow me at Den Dubos,
Paulo at Paulo ALVE's NBA, andthe show the logger Line simply at

(01:04:19):
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With the plugs complete, we willwrap up for Paulo I'm Ben. Thanks

(01:04:41):
as always for listening, and pleasecome back soon for another new episode of
the Logger Line.