Evaluating the Thompson twins and Houston’s 2023 draft targets

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome tothe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety. The lagger Line.
It's proudly served to you by CarboxClutch City lagger It is good Yeah,

(00:22):
Red Nation, get ready to getready, Get Ready. The lagger Line
starts now. Welcome on board.Welcome in, ladies and gentlemen, to
another episode of the lagger Line,served to you courtesy of Clutch to the

(00:44):
lagger of Carback Brewing. I'm yourhost, Ben Dubos, editor of USA
Today's Rocket Spire and a contributor toSports Talks seven ninety, the official flagship
radio station of your Houston Rockets.Today as we kick off Memorial Day weekends
here in the States, I'm joinedby a couple of guests who are not
in the state, so perhaps theyhave a bit more time to help me
break down the twenty twenty three NBADraft and some of the possibilities for the

(01:04):
Rockets. We've got Paalo Alves,my usual co hosting producer out of Portugal,
and Nathan Fogg, Rockets fan anNBA draft analysts out of England.
You can follow Paulo on Twitter atPaolo Alves, NBA, and Nathan on
there at Nathan Fogg one. Firstthings first, I want to welcome Nathan
to the show for the first time. Nathan, thank you so much for
taking the time. You're excited forsome Rockets draft talk. Always I think

(01:27):
about this. It's the first thingI think I've when I wake up.
I'm the last thing I think ofwhen I got to bed, other than
my girlfriend now fiance. But otherthan it's been draft all the time.
Congratulations on that. By the way, I saw that one like just about
a month or two ago. Yes, yeah, we were in we were
in France, which I will nevergo back to it. Now he's dead
to me, so yes, goodthing, you got it, friends,

(01:53):
and now you're never doing a kid. I've always been in it to the
guy anyway, Screw one Bay,screw the Spurs. The last few days
on Rocket Twitter, there's been alot of debate over whether the James Harden
return scenario is worthwhile because of thisidea that he's ball dominant, and the
question, of course is how thatfits in with the development of the young

(02:14):
core and whether he's the right floorgeneral, the right point guard to bring
in. So with that in mind. I don't want to be too podcast
dominant. This is our second showof the week, so we're gonna do
things a little bit different today.And I'm actually going to hand over the
keys to Paulo and let him askthe first question. So, Paulow,
why don't you start this discussion withNathan and take this wherever you want to

(02:34):
go. Listen. I could beI could be you know, professional and
stuff and start by asking in anintroductory question like what's your top floor draft
board or who do you like itfor? Or something simpler like that.
Well, let's be honest, nobody'shere for that, so I'm just gonna
go with It's not a super complicatedquestion where I think it's it's a little
bit more thought provoking, which is, if Harden does come right as it's

(03:00):
looking as it's looking likely, Istill believe that he's I still think he's
going to do the sixers because Idon't think they're own more. You will
be able to hold the standoff ofnot offering to Snaxi money for four years
for too long because they don't reallyhave any other options. But assuming he
comes right, I think we've debatedto death basically every single length of it

(03:23):
pre lottery, and now that thelottery has come and that we're looking at
what likely will be Amen Thompson orI think I mean, it could be
Asar, but who knows. Ithink it will be Amen or if Scot
falls. I'm going to continue tomanifest that until the end of time,
until we can't do it anymore.Likely a point guard prospect. And the

(03:46):
question rises that, well, ifHarden's coming in, you now have Hardened,
you have kpk who's likely not goingto be a point guard but still
is a ball dominant guard. You'vegot Kiln Green, who was probably the
one that's better because they'll play moreoff ball. Now you have a top
four pick that's gonna need minutes,and if the pad Pad rumors are true,
you might have Pat on the rosteras well. He's gonna want to

(04:10):
play. So I'm going to boilthis down to let's imagine it's just the
only guys that matter are Killing Green, James Harden, and whoever we drafted
for. How do you feel,Nathan about whoever we drafted for coming in
behind James Harden early on? Ordoes the fact that the Rockets landed it
for make you no one James hardenback anymore. So the two point guards

(04:35):
scooting Amau are gonna need time tobed into the NBA. I think that's
a shore, especially a man whoI have been perhaps you know, talking
about this for a while now,could have one of the worst rookie seasons.
But I mean, we just sawJabaris Maith really struggle, so I
don't think it'd be a shocked himout to Houston fans, but you should
really prepare for a very bumpy landing. I mean, he could just be

(04:59):
amazing, obviously, I think youshould sort of expect for worst. Is
kind of how I go about this, because he's been playing in overtime Elite,
which is, you know, analien world compared to the NBA cut
So just throwing him out of arein the way about Houston's been throwing out
prospects over the last three years wouldhave been a recipe for disaster and just
rolling the ball out and saying goand cook, go and play one on

(05:21):
one against NBA defenses. That wouldhave been I think actually male practice in
terms of development. So I'm supportiveof getting upon sorry the podcast at a
point guard to sort of help him, you know, let him play a
little bit of a ball, lethim hit some catch and shoot shots,
let him cut and men, lethim play backup point guard against you know,

(05:45):
bench units. I think that wouldbe actually very helpful for his development
with the aim of him coming oninto a more ball dominant role, maybe
towards the end of the season,maybe next season. But James Harden is
likely signing on a longer than aone year deal. I think we can
all sit here and pretend wouldn't itbe great if he signed in a one
plus one. Maybe that happens,but more than likely it's a longer deal.

(06:05):
And Rman Thompson's twenty years old.By the time of that harding contract,
He's going to be twenty three ortwenty four. That's a long time
to be sat basically towel waving orplaying in a smaller role when you also
need him to get reps and learnNBA defenses and struggle. And the way
about Jayalen has I mean, Jayalenhad really no pick and roll game to
hit to his game, I wouldsay, I think it was a huge

(06:27):
deficiency. But they thrust him,I think, unnecessarily into a hugely on
board role this year where he wasrunning the most. It's like a six
or seventh most pick and role inthe league. But what I will say
is by the end of the season, I think you did see some genuine
playmaking chops from him because he wasthrown into the fire. So I would
like a more sort of balance whereit's kind of halfway, you know,

(06:48):
you let him play kind of likea shading shop, get him some easy
cut teaser dunks, let him getsome media love earlier on in the season,
really simplify his role. But youstill wanted to get plenty of payment
playmaking point guard duties, and Ijust don't see here about how that's possible
with James Harden and with Jalen Greenas well, because it's not going to
be a your ten my Ta andChris Paul offense. So that's what worries

(07:09):
me. Any anything longer than thanone year. I would want to play
a year by year with someone likeChris Paul, Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley,
all the point guards like that,that's on a one year basis where
he can kind of just see howit goes. Whereas James Harden, that's
much more a long term commitment,commitment which is really risky. To me,
would you feel any better about thefit with a Sara Thompson who is

(07:30):
Amand's twin brother, because I feellike you know, on Twitter, a
lot of the discourse just bils downto a Thompson twin, but they do
have even though of course they're twinsand they have similar body types and frames,
they have different games. They ofcourse each played for the Overtime Elite.
But amen, you touched on theplaymaking. He's a bit more of
a pure point guard in terms ofhis vision, but of course there's the

(07:51):
big questions with his job shot.He's a bit more raw. Asar Thompson
might not be quite as explosive andisn't quite the point guard, but there's
a lot more to like with hisshot. He did show some growth there
and so I think with him beinga bit more of a wing having a
bit higher floor when it comes toa shot, and I suppose just overall

(08:13):
he has a slightly higher floor becauseif the jump shot is trustworthy, then
it's much harder to envision a totalbust scenario, especially when you're looking at
a guy who's six to seven andthat type of athlete and fairly versatil can
play a lot of different roles andso on and so forth. So would
you feel any better about a SarThompson in a scenario where maybe you're bringing

(08:35):
Harden back for two or three years. I don't think that you should draft
at that pick based on Harden.I'm on record as saying that before,
and the Rockets have told me largelythe same thing, and I believe them.
But if it's sort of a cornflip, you could go either way,
and you see pros and cons toboth guys. Is a Sar possibly

(08:56):
a better day one fit? Andif he is, does that enter into
your calculus at all when you're lookingat the Rockets and who makes sense for
them at four? So yeah,he is a better fit for sure.
He's an off bawl wing who canplay on ball and I think has some
juice fair but is much more otherconnective kind of passive and almon I think

(09:16):
Asaw has the chance to be,you know, the best connective pastor from
the NBA. I mean he thinkof kJ on steroids, you know,
athletic talk can cut, can getto the room with these, but way
better offer dribble and just you know, I think, I mean, you
can easily watch almen looking at hispoint guard skills and then kind of your

(09:37):
eyes glaze over and you realize you'vebeen looking at us off for the last
five minutes because he does so muchof the same stuff. Really, but
from the wing position, I don'tthink he has the on bold juice,
fat amends. He can't sort ofcreate from the top of the key.
You know, he turns away alot of the free for a line when
was helped defenders come. He justdoesn't have that sort of downhill one on
one pressure about arminders. But interms of the passing of a vision of
a playmaking, it's very high fora for a wing prospect. So I

(10:01):
mean, this is the kind ofplayer that we were wishing hard, hard
and hard for a long time inHouston. Someone who could create his own
shot a little bit, get downhilla little bit, but also you know,
has that athleticism to do something offabound rather than Sandy McConner, but
also make the next pass put pressure. As a cutter I would call shouldn't
be shooting. I think this isone of those things that very quickly it's

(10:24):
true that he's a better shooter BenArman and a better shooter, you know,
a better prospect in that sense,but that shouldn't been mistaken for saying
he's any sort of safe bet.He's still a very poor shooter as a
prospect. You know, he hasmore to work with. Apparently his drills
so far, I guess in theoffseason of shured promise and he's it's a
testament to his work. But Iwould caution the idea that he is just

(10:46):
compared to armand he's a good shooter, but compared to every everybody else,
he's still a bad chooter. Sothat is a poor fitnex to Harden because
he's somebody who's going to be helpedoff easily. But you know that means
he can do what PGA Tooker couldn'tdo or Robert Coventon could day, which
is coats and you know, getthe ball and finish it him or past
to the next guy. He's he'sgoing to be a very good fit off

(11:09):
off ball. Make him our nextdecision. It's so weird because I was
I was ready to say that thateven though there he's still a bad sure
that he was shooting nearly eighty percentfrom the freedom line, but that was
early in the season that completely felloff. He finished down to sixty seven.
It's so sad. I think sometimesI'm listening to people talk about Amen

(11:33):
versus Allstar, and it's it's theweirdest thing because it kind of strikes me
as as if, I mean,they're twins. They were born on the
same day, right, But itsometimes kind of strikes you as like Astar
is like a year older or somethinglike that, just from the type of
point that he is. Does anybodyget that feeling when when you hear other

(11:54):
people talk about him, I think, just the way about he's talked about,
Yeah, it's very much more likea player. Um so that kind
of fits into that age narrative.I guess where you think of Arman,
is this incredibly role prospect when youknow, easy to forget about his twenty
in that would be an old prospectscoming in. You know, that's Brandon
Miller's age basically, So I meanthat's he's old of a jam Borrow Smith

(12:15):
I believe by a year. So, um yeah, just the the what
they tried to do, I don'tthink, I sorry is better right now
as a player of an arm And. I think Arman is a better player
on day one, but his role, likely because he is the point guard,
is tougher. So you're you're don'tbuy into any of the arguments that
they should draft a star at fourinstead of aim. You think it's a

(12:37):
wash to to everyone set Yeah.Yeah, I think everyone who goes through
the tape and watches them game bygame will have seen the mock drafts of
the big boards knowing about Armon iscontentiously above. You know, I think
it's closing because it's always movement aroundthis time of via, but for most
of the season has been a coupleof slots ahead of him. And then
do what I did, Sorry,go ahead, I was gonna say,

(12:58):
there's a couple of people Madison moreand I think the guy's a draft deeper
that have a SAR at four.But for the most part, it's arm
And at four and Almonds. Youknow, I do these much draft round
dubs for Rockets, Wire and Amanat this point in the cycle is pretty
much ninety percent to the Rockets,whereas a SAR is a clear outlier,
and a lot of times sometimes that'sjust people trying to make their draft stand
out. I don't think that's thecase with Madison or Draft Deeper. I

(13:20):
know they do their homework, butfor the most part, I think Aman
is the consensus front runner at leastamongst those two right now. Yeah,
And I think Madison is going througha similar journey and I tweeted at him
and he kind of agreed that thatI went through, and so I wouldn't
be surprised if he eventually has armand ahead of this ARB. But basically
what happens is I think so manytimes you watch him expecting Gomen to be
so much higher, and then andthis is what I did. You think,

(13:43):
Wow, this is actually pretty amazing. And he makes a lot of
the same passes just as you're watching, and he's still very athletic. And
I wonder if it'sar is actually abetter twin, because that's always the thing
that's going to come into anybody's mind. It's not a hot take to wonder
whether the twin who is only twospots at It's not like he's firty spots
below him on mock Rats. AndI think eventually, as you keep watching
and as you keep digging deep,and as you really get into the granular

(14:05):
details of which I like to do. You know, with a handful of
prospects each year, I can't dowith them, all of them. I
think as you keep watching, mostpeople will agree at Lmon just has way
more on ball, you know,upside as a creator, because, like
I say, you watch us AWwhen Almon's off the court, and there's

(14:26):
just so many times where he justgets turned away with the freefroll and he
doesn't commit to his drives, andI just worry that breaking a defense down
is something that naither of these guyshave necessarily proven that we can do yet
because of the way vot is played, because there's so much transition. But
you feel so much better about Armond'sbeing able to do that. And if
the Saw I can't do him that, that quite quickly puts him into more

(14:46):
of a role player off ballbox.Yeah, the way that Madison put it.
And that's Madman Leaks on Twitter.We've had him on this spot before.
I think he said that Almond ismuch more of an East west guy.
He's got the shift see this onhis drives, whereas a Star is
much more north south. He's abit more rigid, which theoretically limits his
playmaking upside because he's just not ascomfortable doing different things with his body and

(15:09):
making more complex reads. Is thatif your assessment, yeah, I liked
the way that thread the difference inmayor athleticism. Almen is a better athlete,
but it's you know, I sorry, still incredible athlete Almen has.
It's not just his first step,which is up there with Jalen's and will
be ninety percent of defenders, youknow, just off off that one first
step. It's his you know hehas a hand drib but he can He

(15:31):
has so many fakes with the ball, like whether it's faking off a pass,
you know, a fake wrap aroundpass at Schenger likes to do as
well and then pass it to somebodyelse, or whether it's just so many
times a pick and roll defender isshading you left or ed, but then
they are ready to flip right ifyou think he's going to be a crossover,
and then he'll kind of fake abehind the back and then move forwards.
So it's not a hangover where it'sjust a hesitations and really reading what

(15:52):
the defender is doing and and fakingthe defender out of his position to then
you know he's not just relying onhis athleticism um, and then you know
once he gets medal, he hasan absolutely beautiful year or step um.
You know he has a spin aroundmove back to the move that most likely
gets some in trouble right now witha turn out because he just has to
tighten up that the handle, buthe know he has way more. His

(16:14):
handle is very early, I wouldsay for a for a guard prospect,
which is not something that us arehas to that same level in terms of
on board creation. So keeping outkeeping under the theme of comparing the two
um defensively right, because I thinkI think a lot of people just look
at look at the boat and putthem in the same categories, and a
lot of people expect Amain specific tobe, you know, a point of

(16:37):
attack defender and a good one atthat. From day one and just watching
them, I just I cannot besold on it. I can see a
lot of upside playing the passing waynesthat they do gam a little bit on
steels. I can see the offbolt defense being there and using his athleticism
and specific I haven't blot out startedas much, so I'll lean on you
to invite inviting us on that.But how can you rate, especially on

(17:02):
ball, both of their defenses,because if they if they're especially if lam
Sudan's coming in, I think theRockets will be looking for a guy they
can throw one ball and other thanentireres and I don't I don't think they
have anybody that could be trusted intheir role right now, How do you
rate their defenses on ball and whatthey project to be able. I'm guessing
they project to be awesome, butI'll ask anyways, Yeah, I think

(17:25):
Assar is a better room ball defenderfor now. You know, I think
he was pretty incredible in that league. He has, you know, it's
funny to talk about enough South sortof athleticism. He kind of has it
in his own body. He flipsup and down very very like quickly.
He has this interesting um stands wherehe gets low and then as soon as
the guard drives on him, heimmediately goes up right and kind of blocks

(17:48):
their path without using his arms abouttrying to foul, and he just kind
of because he's so much toller thanmost of his guardens, so much bigger.
He has this kind of like hipflexibility, but it's up and down
rather than side to side flipping thathips. He just shoots upright and just
blocks the path and it's very muchlike an ushering you towards to help ushering
you away from a paint. Andhe's very good at that armand instead is

(18:10):
a way way more off ball defenderfor the team. He basically just free
styles and roams around and just jumpsin passing wins. He will just double
any opportunity. You know, theyput two to the ball a lot in
the pick and roll, and hebasically just they say arm and you run
around and go and grab a ball, and he does it a lot,

(18:30):
and then he leaks out and getsdunks. And that's clearly not going to
be something he's going to be askedto do whatever. In the NBA,
nobody plays like that. I thinkhe could absolutely trap. And I think
you know, a prospect of tryingto run a two one series, which
is what most NBA offenses have intheir playbook, right. It's that corner
wing pick and roll start action whereyou run into a handoff and you know
you've got the baseline as a defender, and if you add a six foot

(18:51):
seven point guard with a six footnine tr use and a six foot eleven
jborrow Smith on the wings, that'swhere you will deceive that that wingspan and
about length just being an incredible deterrenceto sort of keep the guard in front
of you. But in terms oflike just putting away measurements for now and
just one on one defense, Ithink Almond is a bit lazy in the

(19:12):
league, which is kind of understandableand I think you have to accept as
part of what happens when you're upthirty every you know, every second quarter.
But when he locks in, helooks very good. And what I'm
particularly impressed about him from a pointof attack standpoint is someone you want to
guard want is his screen navigation Ithink is very good, and you know,

(19:32):
getting skinny getting around screens and thengetting on a guard's shoulder and forcing
him away from a pain I thinkis also good too. So I think
that's something that he will be exposedin. But with a coach like Indiadoka
getting him disciplined very quickly, Ithink he will very quickly be a good
defender at the point of attack.In terms of comparisons, when we look

(19:52):
at the twenty twenty three a halfcompared to a year ago. Both of
the Tops and Twines are going togo in the same range as Jade Nivey
year ago, who went fifth tothe Pistons. I know, Nathan,
you were super high on Jaden.You made the argument that he could go
as high as two or three overall. Where'd he coming on your board?
Two? Two? Okay? Yeah, yeah, I knew you were a
big Jade Nivy fan, and hehad a pretty encouraging rookie year. I

(20:14):
mean, the efficiency overall was law, but that's fairly expected for rookies in
the NBA. Overall average over sixteenpoints five assists per game, shot better
than thirty four percent from three allon the Detroit team where he had almost
nothing around him. Kade missed theentire season, so I think a lot
of people are encouraged by what theysaw from Jade Nivey. I think that
was definitely a hit on your part. Any wit at fifth in the draft

(20:36):
could have gone forth. And that'sthe same range that the Thompson twins are
projected at this year. Both ofthem six foot seven athletes, a bit
taller than Jade Nivy, but theydo share some characteristics. How would you
Compare those two this year to Ivy, who I know was one of your
guys a year ago, and specificallywith Amon, who I know profiles to
play a somewhat similar role in theNBA. Where are you are on the

(21:00):
Thompson Twins and they're upside compared toJade n Ivy, who I know you
really believed in and still do fromlast year's class. Yeah, So I
think it's this is one of thosetimes where if I had both Armon and
Ivy in front of me, Iwould just defer to the high competition of
college as this kind of tiebreaker.But if you just asked me to look

(21:22):
at the tape and just say whatskill set do you believe in most,
I think I believed most in Ivy's. I thought he could add a mid
range game and a floater and anin between game, which he really already
he started to show him a secondhalf of the season, Whereas it's much
more hopeful about arm and I thinkneeds to get back and I think he's
got the footwork on a balance ina post adeaways of it, he just
didn't have a touch yet, WhereasI think Ivy kind of it was always

(21:45):
a case of him just learning howto slow down and get to that shot.
But I believe are in the touch. So that's why IVY maybe slightly
ahead. But as you know,as I one of these sort of listeners
to hear, and as I'm gladyou pointed out, I was exceptionally high
in Ivy, And you know,I think Arman Thompson is a far far
better prospect than Jaborra Smith was lastyear's draft. And just think of how
excited people were when we got thethird pick. Obviously, I know a

(22:08):
lot of people wanted Pala Bankeira,but a lot of people also wanted Jabari,
and we're still very high in him. So you know, I I
know maybe people aren't familiar with Thompsons, they don't want to watch out.
It's have a most accessible league.I think almen is a is a way
higher prospect, way better prospects thanJabari. So we should be excited about
the prospects of game. And Ithink a Sari is you know, I
think again, Sara Jabari, I'llgo with it, Sar Jabari. I'll

(22:32):
go with a tie breaker of thecollege game in that sense. Um,
So I'm sorry, he's probably thelowest of all these guys, but I
think it would go Ivy and thenclosely followed by Amen. But I would
say Alman has just as high asa ceiling as Ivy, if not even
higher. It's just the question marksare a little bit more questionable because of
the competition. And he was Ithink it was slightly old, as Ivy

(22:55):
was a second year, so maybewe were the same age. But yeah,
yeah, he went through two yearsof college, right yeah? Is
is Alsar fifth when their board justfor our key guy city, Yes,
I had um, so Wemby Ski, Amen, Um, Brandon Miller come
wait more and then a Sar andthen Jaris So yes Sar I was six,
Yes, okay, so you stillhave Keim with more ahead of him.

(23:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean wecan talk about com if you want.
Let me transition to that by askingabout it in the context of a
trade, because I think if theRockets stay at four and the top three
goes is as everybody expects with Wembyand then Scoot and Brandon Miller in some
order, Almond's clearly the best playeravailable at that point, right, yes,

(23:41):
yeah, And I'm guessing you see, like a lot of people,
a pretty severe drop off after four. So if Amen jumps to two or
three, then whichever of Scoot Hendersonor Brandon Miller is on the board would
then clearly be best player available.Right Well, I think Brandon is much
closer to come for me, Iwould want to, okay, go back
and watch that type. So amendclear three, Amen, Brown in common
fall five in Somata. Okay,Well, the reason I wanted to ask

(24:03):
you about that. So of courseif they stay it four Am and Thompson
is a pretty good bet, assuminghe's on the board. There's a reason
why he's mocked to the Rockets inso many projections, and there have been
reports come out this week and theRockets are comfortable with him. I don't
think Jayalen Green would have name droppedhim on the podcast with Paul George if
he didn't have at least a littlebit of an inkling that that's an okay

(24:25):
scenario for the Rockets. And again, even though they didn't get Wimby,
they did have some good fortune inthe lottery. Four it's a lot better
than six. It puts you ina higher tier with that set. In
one of these scenarios where for onereason or another, maybe Aman's not there.
Maybe they're worried about the floor scenario, which is a bit lower for
the reasons that Nathan outlined earlier thanyou would like with a prospect of his

(24:48):
upside. There are some other interestingguys in the top ten you look at,
certainly Cam Whitmore, Juris Walker,Anthony Black, There's some other considerations
of play, obviously his twin brotheras well. And when you look at
the Rockets at four, it's hardfor me to imagine that they would draft
someone ahead of Alman Thompson considering thevalue that he has. I think if

(25:17):
Alman wasn't your guy, you couldlook to trade down, especially because there
are reports that teams like the Pacersand the Magic are potentially looking to move
up. So I guess my questionfor you is, and you mentioned earlier,
if if Brandon Miller's on the boardat four, you don't see that
much of a delta between Brandon andCam. I guess my big question for

(25:41):
you is if a scenario presents itself. You know, I'm not even that
interested in talking about trade up scenariosat that point. It's just, you
know, can you trade up totwo or three to get Scoot Henderson.
It just depends on is he higheron the Rockets board, and nobody's going
to know that other than the Rocketsthemselves as they go through the process the
next few weeks. In terms of, you know, could you trade down?
I don't think they want to tradedown a lot because they already have

(26:03):
a fairly deep rotation and we've beentalking about the need for consolidation moves for
months now. It's not a situationat all with the Rockets where I think
you want to trade a dollar forfour quarters. But conceivably, if you
see a small delta between whoever you'relooking at it four and who you might
could get at like six or seven, then yeah, maybe you do consider
moving down if you can get likea future first out of the deal to

(26:25):
sort of build up your war chestof assets for a blockbuster trade down the
line. If you see the marginas that slim, it's something you should
consider. So, Nathan, wheredo you see the delta when we're talking
about, you know, the guysin the two through four range, Scoot,
Brandon and amend versus the guys wehaven't talked about yet, Cam Whitmore,

(26:45):
Jariss Walker, Anthony Black those thatare sort of in the five through
eight range along with the Sara Thompson. How much is that gap and what
scenarios are you thinking about if you'rethe Rockets potentially moving down, if one
of those teams around say six orseven, is inquiring about moving up.
Yeah, I think the problem withmy tier is I have Brandon and Can

(27:06):
basically in a tier together, andthose are two very different timeline kind of
players, even though they're still firstround draft picks. You know, Houston
wants to win games. They wanta rookie presumably who can sort of fit
in more fluidly early on. That'sBrandon. Like, you can just play
Brandon of the three next to Jabari, have him play off Harden or Shengoon.

(27:27):
He's going to hit shots, he'sgonna try some self creation stuff.
He's going to be a capable defender, I think, especially in the wing
rotation with Tar and Jabari, andI think his landing would be a lot
smoother, whereas Can Whitmore is goingto be eighteen and draft night. He's
had a very stunted season so farin Villanova where everything kind of went wrong,
and he's going to be exceptionally rawand it just depends if Houston really

(27:52):
feels they have the luxury of draftingsomebody who is two years younger and two
years behind potentially Brandon Miller's production.You know, can they sit and watch
Brandon Miller play for Orlando, let'ssay, next to Paula Bankeiro and next
to Franz Wagner and varying replying inthe playoffs maybe and they're getting overplaud it's
and Houston has come with more,averaging eight points off a bench and looking

(28:15):
kind of shake it can can canRathfelstone stomach that? Can he even survived?
That? That's the big risk.I think even if Cam ends up
in three years before superior player,I like Cam playing you know, a
very simplified role, very simplified.Make it as easy as possible for him,
because that is somebody who really needsto learn the game. Having standing
mcow and having baseline, have himtry and work on his freeze. I

(28:37):
mean, I think he'd be incredibleoff Shengu because his pressure on a rim
and his athleticism as a cutter wouldbe fantastic off a post a big Blackshengu.
But the fit is I think abit more intentional towards we're going to
play this way. We're going toplay Chen Hube, We're going to sort
of really use of you in thisspecific role, whereas Brandon Miller is way
more versatile, and if you're tryingto win games now, you prefer versatility,

(28:59):
I think, especially when you havea new coach who doesn't have a
players and he's going to try andfigure some stuff out. So that is
just I don't see as potentially avery likely prospect to Houston, especially if
they have him similarly on the boards. So I just I just don't see.
I mean, Detroit doesn't have anythingto offer us because there picks a
tied up, Orlando is an extone, or Indiana, I mean Indiana.
Um, I just don't. Iknow, we like talking about these

(29:23):
trade ups and trades down, tradedowns, but I just don't see what
are they offering, you know,I don't think I don't think we would
want to give it Miles Turner oranything like that. Um So I just
don't know. I mean, I'mthinking maybe a protected future for something along
those lines. Nothing that's especially sexy, but if you see the prospects,
it's very similar in value. Maybeit's something to consider. We should know

(29:44):
that Kim Whitmore was in Houston thisweek. How will you put that on
your Twitter? You captured that fromhis Instagram, right, Nah? I
stole it from from the Clutch Cityzeal Rockets account. I gave credit.
I gave credit. Don't don't blameme, Okay, but he did work
out with the Rockets. But mypoint, Nathan, to follow up when
you were talking about, what more, having a longer development cycle at least

(30:06):
in terms of his trajectory to eventuallybecoming a starter or more than that in
the NBA, if we're talking aboutscenario where let's say the Rockets do have
James Harden and Pat Beverley coming inand there's no big consolidation trade and so
the rotation is fairly deep. Isthat not maybe a scenario where you think,
hey, I can bring him alonga bit more slowly. I know

(30:26):
it's not ideal, and you mentioned, you know, R Felstone wanting to
win games potentially for a number ofreasons. But if it's a scenario where
they feel like they have all theseveterans coming in and of course they've got
you know, seven rotation players already, before we even talk about these draft
picks. Does maybe the fact thatyou can sort of bring him along more
slowly as opposed to you know,we let off talking about Aman Thompson and

(30:47):
James Harden and do you need togive a certain amount of minutes early on
to develop a certain amount of notjust minutes, but touches as well.
Does the fact that maybe you canbring Cam along more slowly perhaps become part
of the appeal to him in certainscenarios, I mean, yeah, in
a vacuum, yes, I thinkhe would benefit enormously by playing off hard.

(31:08):
He can tell him where to stand, when to cut, when to
space the floor, when when toset a screen. You know, went
to roll, went to just popfor free. Those are all the things
he needs to learn in an NBAoffense. But I think the problem is
Houston doesn't want to just add JamesHarden and then have the rest of the
roster the way it was. Ithink they're also looking for grades. Yeah,

(31:32):
so where does that come from.Let's say, if you add Cam
Whitmore, you're probably either looking atanother wing kind of like a Cam Johnson
or another sort of you know,a rim protecting center and that's just when
the minutes gets squeezed. I mean, you know, if you're looking at
Cam as this kind of I mean, you already have Jabari and Tari,
and then if you add like aCam John Turner or another wing player who's

(31:55):
gonna play twenty plus minutes tonight,you already have kJ And even if you've
got rid of them, that's justwhere a guy who isn't ready to contribute.
We can say it would be nicein theory, but how quickly does
it get squeezed out of a rotationof a team that's really trying to win
games? Now? Whereas Brandon issomeone who I actually think could compete with
Ja. But I mean I wouldn'tbe surprised if Brandon is a better player

(32:15):
of engine Bar next year. Sothat is clearly much more competition in my
eyes than can So I would justbe worried. I mean, I'm worried
about tight tie get in minutes.So you know, I really like tight
tie Washington, So you know,we have unfortunately, we have a roster
squeeze. So I think this issomething you have to really carefully take into
consideration when you're when you're looking atyou know, how many because you know,
we have what twelve thirteen players whotheoretically have some good upside, but

(32:38):
you might want to give minutes toboth players are not organ with on the
rosta next year. But there's notmany roster spaces to add two or three
four veteran players. You have tobe very deliberate with this. I think
you know what, I like.It might be unrealistic, right the scenario
where you're trade, where you're tributetheir mind the way for a Windell loves
same Man Thumbler for some reason.I mean, they don't need a card

(33:00):
unless they're all in unfolds. Sucksdoesn't seem to be it. You could
have a situation similar to what orwhen they themselves had two years ago with
Sucks and France, where at leastfrom an optics perspective that you brought up
the case where you did take orStone took came with more ahead of when
the miller and when the miller's lookinggreat on some other team that's making the

(33:22):
playoffs. Andre and Cam's a littlebit further behind as his natural disuse eight
as scenario where you do draft cameat six because you need picks if you
if you did trade, Let mejust set set recordstrate then four and twenty
four, six and eleven both magicpicks. If this were on the table,
for example, you could have ascenario where and depending on how the

(33:45):
rest of the top ten takes out, you could have a scenario where your
draft him with more at six becausehe's not going to be there at eleven,
But then at eleven you draft aguy like I don't know, like
Rady Dick for example, who's goingto be likely be able to tribute from
day one, and like we feela lot of that's employed. The Rockets
still need tuning, right, Yeah, I mean I would do that.

(34:07):
I would do that, and youknow, draft Case and Wallace at eleven.
He could be a perfect long termfit next to jayalen Um. You
know, we we all know whatthe front office is going to do.
We go. You know, it'sa very high chance to be so like
James Harden, But as long ashe's not here, we can talk about
what we would do. And Ithink we should be totally comfortable being bad
next year. But having come Whitmoreand Kayson Wallace or Graddy Dick or Taylor

(34:29):
Hendrix or whoever, as as prospectsare. You know, I would be
completely comfortable with that. I think, you know, you could put a
line up out there, which isyou know, Case and Jail and Can
Whitmore, jabbora Smith around Hengoon andit's cutting, its passing, its movement,
three point shooting. You know,we win twenty five games, but
we you know, obviously you hopethey're a bit a little bit better than
Matt and you hope back Jayalen takesa stall heap, and you know,

(34:51):
I do think we need some veteransa point guard to help Jaalen and those
guys. But I'm comfortable with alldirections. And you know I said earlier,
you're not going to bring just Jamesin. You know, in theory,
I would love to just bring Jamesand and it all be young guys.
And now James you have to setall these guys up. But you
know obviously that's not how it's gonnawork. He's gonna want help. So
um, yes, if you're askingme, would I trade you know,

(35:12):
four for six and eleven and twenty, you know, yes, I definitely
would, because that's that's too youknow, that's Cam Whitmore who for me?
I mean First of all, Iwould pick Arm if Arman's arm in
a terrible but if it was betweenBrandon and Cam at eleven, I would
pick Cam and eleven. Interesting,you may even be in a position where
at six, I mean you clearlyhave Cam ahead, but you could still
get all sorry at six. That'sanother scenario that could happen. It's it's

(35:37):
definitely interesting. I So let mebring up a different scenario then. So
we've talked about a little bit ofthe guys right bulow where the rockets are
picking. What about a scenario whereyou just straight out of four completely,
but you do it something like fourtwelve, which is okay, c spec

(36:00):
this year and future assets. AndI know this is going to rubel out
of people the wrong way because peoplewant an immediate reward for a terrible season
that we've just had and looking atpick twelves and it's not it's not as
shiny as pick four or or gaylike a man Thompson um. But I
think there could be merit to doingsomething like that if you're not in love

(36:22):
with the guy at four. AndI'm not even saying that you that you
have to get from OKAC or pickspackwhich is I know, the popular um,
I think that people want back fromOKAYC. I would actually do it
for twelve. I was talking withwith a Thunder fan that interacts love with
the Rockets Twitter. He has aSteven Adams picker. Yeah, yeah,

(36:47):
yeah, he's really fun. Umand uh and and I proposed, uh,
this was pick three at that it'sjust pretty well free. But I
don't think pick people would change thatmuch. I pro post twelve pick four
or pick three, but for twelve, but instead of the Rockets picks,
which I actually don't value them muchbecause I think there's a lot of Duman

(37:08):
gloom scenarios, but I don't putthem at value. In pick six through
twelve. If if that's what weend up giving up, we still would
have a decent chance of jumping intothe top four, in which case we
would keep the pick. So thetrade was four for twelve this year for
the twenty twenty six Clippers pick,which is a high upside pick. I

(37:31):
think the Clippers are on the firstyear of falling apart. If not this
year, I think until twenty twentysix, it will happen in twenty twenty
seven Nuggets pick, which I believeis top three protected from when it was
traded. And he said, youcan just pick any other first round pick,
and I went with twenty twenty eightthunder top fight protective this because even

(37:52):
though the Thunder ever right outlook,who knows what happens in five years?
Right, this is an alternative there. And I am not even sure.
I think I may not like apendon this strait, but I would even
do it with one less pick,right, I would do it with just
twelve LAC and then respect. Butthe concept is that you are not that

(38:14):
high on the guy that's concluded atfor you for some reason, either they
don't think that you're going to havethe reps to develop them, or just
not a hand them as a prospect, or you and I sailed to reveal
whatever it is. So you takea gay at twelve who might who might
still get a case and Wallace ora great Etick or a Tailor Hendricks or
a guy of that you know,upper tier that could easily go top ten,
but it's going to fall because youcan only take ten guys top ten.

(38:37):
And at the same time, youget picks for the future. Start
trade to get and we've talked aboutthis on the plot before. It's a
common in this conception that the Rocketshave this huge amount of picks because of
the next strait after this year,after pick twenty, the Rockets have one
pick per year, just like anyother franchise in the NBA that hasn't traded

(38:59):
other picks alway, So they're notahead of anyone when it comes to a
star trade. Unless we're back toa spot where, unlest the star specifically
wants to come to Houston, you'relikely not going to have that competitive an
of an offer unless you include prospects, if you already have any roster with
withold Hurts, all of the fansto think of that. So I actually

(39:20):
think that this is a fairly validscenario. How do you feel about just
not after a season like this,just not taking a guy in the top
tip? I mean, I lovethat trade. Look, I'm I've still
got sixty years left in me.I think of life. It's a long
time to watch basketball. I'm notas impatient as some, even though I
can completely understand it. After alosing season, that's a slam dunk trade.

(39:43):
I mean, the West is ablood bath, not necessarily because there's
five six teams to a row winningfifty five games. But because the sort
of radfifth talent throughout it. Imean, I've been trying to tell people
Houston could win ten more games nextyear and still be blashed in the West.
If San Antonio takes a big leap, that would probably put Houston fifteen
even winning photo games, which wouldbe a big improvement by any measure.

(40:04):
So it doesn't take much for youto fall to twelve, thirteen, fourteen
f Even if you have some levelof you know, even sniffing five hundred,
you could still be a very highlottery pick. So the Clippers are
absolute shambles, and I think Paul, George and Quire going to leave,
and that leaves normal power on thebooks in twenty twenty six, which is
that pick you suggested. So yes, I am one into that tread.

(40:24):
I think Steve should be a fundof GM and I we should be the
Rockets gem and we should lot quitein right now, well before before you
go on it. Then, uh, it's it's a Kelly Echo versus Steve,
as Kelly would be asking us togive, you know, the rights
to Tello, to center the rightsof an ex NHL franchise that's coming to

(40:44):
Houston, my first Bondson, we'llsee. I was going to bring up
Kelly at a slightly different context.Look, I'm fully in agreement with you
all on that hypothetical. I wouldabsolutely be interested in treating down slash out
if you're getting significant future draft capital, because the liquidity of that is significant.

(41:06):
What I didn't like about Kelly's constructionsbesides the obvious, those were terrible
proposals, let's be honest. Besidesthe fact that the value wasn't there,
it's also especially in a world whereyou're getting James Harden, I don't see
why you would give up the longterm club control of an asset like the
fourth overall pick and someone like amanThompson for these veterans like Oganaobe, Deontay

(41:34):
Murray, all of these veterans whofor the most part have only one or
two years left on their deals.That's part of why they're theoretically attainable.
And of course, one reason whyyou don't see that many deals involving top
five picks from a team just totallymoving out is that a team that's that
bad typically going for a win.Now veteran that doesn't have long term club

(41:54):
control. There's not that much valueto it for a team drafting the top
five anyway, because it's not likethey're ready to contend the next season.
Now, in this case, thecalculus is a little bit different because,
of course, we know the Rocketshave their future draft obligations coming due to
Oklahoma City starting next year with topfour protections, we know the incentives to
try and win. Now we knowthey've been linked to James Harden and so

(42:15):
on and so forth. We talkedabout that ad nauseum. But here's the
converse of that. If James Hardenis coming in and we feel pretty good
about the floor rising, I thinkyou know a lot of people have talked
about Harden as the ultimate floor racer, and that's what he is, assuming
health. Then to me, whatis the incentive to trade out for a

(42:38):
veteran other than if Harden is askingfor it. But if Harden's asking for
it, in my opinion, andI've said this before, I just would
turn the page on Hardened and thenstart looking at guys like Chris Paul,
might Conley go down a tier interms of the veteran point guards to bring
in. If Harden is open tocoming in without a veteran co star,
then why are you trading asset likeAman Thompson, who you would have four

(43:02):
years of ridiculously cheap labor from followedby his second contract Unless he looks like
a star. And if he doeslook like a star, then great,
that's a good problem to have.If not, you're probably going to get
a friendly second contract as well becauseof his status as a restricted free agent,
Why would you give up all ofthat club control for years, all
of those low to mid twenties production, which is at such a premium in

(43:25):
the NBA for a veteran in ayear that you're not really trying to win
at a high level anyway. It'snot like you can contend for a title.
So for me, part of theappeal to James Harden is that if
you feel good about getting him,then to me, that is your floor
raiser. So if he's open tocoming without making a deal for you know,

(43:49):
the types of guys that were mentionedin Kelly's article, let's say the
Anobi, the Murray, the HeldenJohnson types, then as I see it,
there's not much a you also movingout of the draft for that type
of asset. If James is okaybasically being a lone star in Houston,
then to me, all of asudden, I see a lot more value

(44:09):
just saying pat and reaping the rewardsof another top five draft pick. Am
I missing anything there? Yes,I suppose you're double dipping in a sense
if you try to do that fora little return. You know, it's
kind of a self filtering thing whereif you signed James Harden, in my
opinion, is signing him with theunderstanding that he's not coming here to be

(44:31):
a contender. He's coming here becausehe wants to be back in Houston for
whatever reason. So, and whatI will say is that something that I
think goes underdiscussed is, you know, unfortunately hard and might be a sixty
game player right now. So let'ssay we are on course for thirty two
wins by you know, of atrade deadline, and then it becomes pretty

(44:52):
clear you know, we're probably notgoing to get the play, and I
think we'll still be meriting going forit because of the habits and everything.
You know of the benefits it couldbe there. But you know, if
James has got to kill his sonus, if he's got hamstring sore on
us, that could be the timeto sit him and play armand Thompson.
I think that's not even a tankingmove. That's a very realistic proposition.
James had that exact same scenario thisseason. The only reason he was playing

(45:14):
was because they were still a titlecontender. So if you're looking at,
you know, fighting for a thirdteam seed, then that's I think it's
it's very realistic to suggest that we'reactually only signing card And for three quarters
of a season, and then andthen you let Almond take over after three
quarters of a season where he's beenable to watch and learn and have the
you know, shading sharp this seasonafter Damian Lillard went down, just started

(45:34):
averaging twenty six points a game becausehe'd beded in. And obviously, you
know, it's it's a little easierat the end of the season because you're
playing a lot of tag of teams, But I would love that scenario.
And then guess what, you know, you've got a forty percent chance of
a top four pick if you're afifth or sixth seed, which could still
be a ten, twelve, thirteen, maybe even higher win improvement, which
would be a fantastic season. Iwould love a season like Orlando had,

(45:55):
wouldn't you. I mean, that'sthat would be like the three. I
think one of the things that thatgoes under about James is even though he's
playing less games a season, heis still or for the six Ers,
He's still played thirty eight minutes anight, So he's not getting the minutes
that he should as someone with theinjury issues that he's had over the last

(46:17):
few seasons. Coming into a lowerpressure environment here, you should theoretically be
able to bump thirty seven down tothirty two thirty three if you can get
him to agree with it. Wenever know. With James, he's the
one that's actually wanting to play orwhatever it is. You can probably extend
how many games he can play ifyou play him less per game, because

(46:37):
I mean with Philly, with Mbeedalso being an injury prom superstar, it's
it's tough to get there. Andone most thing that I wanted to just
circle back to my proposal earlier withthe Thunder. There's other things that you
can that you could do this with, but I like the Thunder because first
of all, we have precedent ofthem doing something like this they did last

(46:57):
year for uzmam Jang, where theytraded I think the three or four first
round picks directly for persons twelve.There's also a working relationship between the Rockets
and Thunder, going back to theshin Gun trade. Yeah, and there
so the position we are in wherewe have a lot of prospects that we
can't play them all and we're lookingfor a consolidation trade, the Thunder are
going to need that, but insteadof it being with prospects, because I

(47:22):
think they trusted just a lot ofsecond round picks so far, or compared
to us at least, they aregoing to be in a position where they
are going to want to consolidate someof the first round picks that they have,
which is a lot, I think. If it's not the most in
the league anymore, I don't think. Because the Jazz exists now and they're
revealing, but they're looking, they'regoing to look to consolidate. And when

(47:46):
you're trading down, when you havethe one big asset and you're breaking it
down into pennies in the NBA,I think you're always negotiating from a position
of strength because everybody's looking to dothe opposite. Everybody's looking to a lot
of pens into a dollar. Soif you're trying to do if you're obviously
on the other on the other sideof that, you're going to have a

(48:07):
lot Hoever, then you may beable to get a better deal than you'd
expect for the circumstances. To clarifymy point, and then, Paulo,
I want to ask you the samequestion I asked Nathan, just to make
sure that I'm not missing anything whenyou talk about these trades of dealing out,
and again, this is dealing outfor a veteran. Dealing out for
the type of scenario that Paolo outlinedis entirely different. I'm in agreement that

(48:30):
that should be a consideration because ofthe liquidity of those assets moving forward and
what you can do with them,whether it's making those picture yourself or using
them on the trade market. Thereason I look at Kelly's article and I'm
turned off besides the value not reallybeing there. If we're talking about James
Harden already being in Houston and youalready having that higher floor, then again,

(48:54):
raising the floor is sort of theonly rationale my opinion, for a
top five type team in terms ofone of the league's worst to trade for
a good but not great veteran likeyou know, we talked about an anobe
Cam Johnson. Who else did hethrowing that article? Miles Turner, Yeah,

(49:17):
Like to me, you know,when you make that trade, you're
going older, You're getting far lesscontractual control. It's not in age alignment
with your young core. There's alot of things that aren't perfect, but
it's just to sacrifice the team thinksit needs to make for the short term

(49:39):
benefit of being in a much morecompetitive environment and winning games, because you
know, as we saw this pastseason, there are limits to just sacking
young prospects because if you're losing sixtyplus games every season, there's going to
be bad habits and that takes atoll on the ultimate long term outcome of
your development of these young guys.But if you feel good about bring in

(50:00):
James Harden and he is open todoing it without a costar, which is
the hypothetical that I keep going backto, and Nathan, I think you
have a fair point mentioning that youknow Harden has to be open to that
on some level. Just by talkingabout Houston in the first place, because
it's not like there's anyone even closeto his age on the roster right now,
and other trades are far from agiven. So if theoretically you already

(50:23):
have hardened as the floor raiser,then why are you giving up both age
and contractual control for a more whennow veteran to benefit you in a couple
of seasons That it's not like you'regoing to contend for a title anyway.
For me, if you don't keepthe pick, and I would probably just

(50:45):
be inclined to make the pick myselfand take whoever's left of Scoot Brandon or
amand Thompson. That's my personal preference. But if we're talking about potentially trading
back or out for value, thento me that has a lot more appeal
the training for a veteran, becauseI just don't really see the point in
paying the premium for one of thosetypes of vets that Kelly mentioned. If

(51:07):
you already have hardened on the wayto accomplish the same purpose, you may
as well take the greater long termliquidity which comes from drafting a top prospect
or getting more draft picks that youcan sort of, you know, restock
your coppers. If you will whenit comes to you know your war chest
for future trades. Does that makesense to you? Powel, Yeah,
it does. I think I findvery few scenarios where it makes sense to

(51:30):
trade out but for a just afete or a young star. I think
I think the only few that couldmake sense. And I'm not even including
Kilvin Brown in this because well,now he's eligible for a Supermax and I
don't know if he's worth a supermassivefacting for the Celtics, he is because
they don't have any alternatives, Butfrom a pure Valley standpoint, I'm not

(51:52):
clarity if he is a superman.I know he's a Max player. I
don't know if he's a Supermax typeplayer. But the only scenario I could
see it maybe making sense is ifyou are trading for someone in the situation
that the Rockets traded before Games Harden, when they did the first time around.
It's a guy coming off as rookiedeal that you feel really confident or

(52:15):
that your staff feels really confident willbe a star. And and and in
that case, if you are maxinghim, you're going to get five years
of team control from it um andso in that situation, it could make
sense if it's if it's a guythat's you know, you really believe he's
going to be that guy, butthe team that currently has him is not

(52:37):
that confident about maxing him, Icould see. I don't think it will
happen. I don't think it makessense for the Sixers anyways. I could
see Maxie being a guy that rightnow might not look like a straight up
Max guy. But if you're ifyour staff and you're scouting things, that
he's going to be someone who wentput in a bigger role, kind of

(52:59):
like Game Startdan was is going toassent to superstardom, then it could make
sense. Right I'm talking about MaxMore and the More in the not Maxi
specifically, but a guy in hissituation that was behind a couple of stars
and that is now going to getpaid. And I mean it's a six
or Sky Pardon and Sue and Maximfor four years. That gets to be

(53:23):
a really expensive team. Although Inote by a sar is coming off this
contract next year. But yeah,basically just a very small subset of players.
And that's why, you know,I didn't go too deep into the
discussion in the Kelly article today.It's not just the value in how those
trades are constructed. It's those typesof names, and you can even throw
a Pascal Siakam and maybe even JalenBrown into the mix as well. To

(53:45):
me, that's just not worth it. Especially you're talking about guys that you
can't extend for four or five yearsanyway, and potentially you could just sign
them yourself and a year or so, or pursue them on the open market
by trying to sign and trade forthem a year from now. Anyway,
I don't see point and paying apremium right now, especially if you already
have Hardened coming in as your floorraiser in this scenario than to me,

(54:07):
you know, it's not just aboutthe value of the way Kelly constructed it
being off. It's more I justdon't see the point overall in that scenario,
and I'm just much more inclined atthat point to think long term,
be it making the draft pick yourselfthis year, which is probably what I
would do, or maybe trading back, as Powlo said, for more draft
assets and restock your future war chestif you will. I don't really see

(54:30):
a point to adding another sort ofwin now veteran to maybe take you from
you know, the load to thirtiesin terms of wins that you'd probably have
adding Harden and Pat Beverley and maybea Bruce Brown type to maybe if you
add another one of those guys,maybe you can really talk about winning low
forties and being in the play inmix. I just don't really see the

(54:52):
point and what that does for youin the grand scheme to where that's worthwhile,
right, Yeah, I think theideally a two timeline thing would work
great, where you bring in James, you know, a couple of other
great players, and you pretend tobe a contender and you have a fun
couple of years and you supplement themwith the youth that will take over,
and you don't mind giving away along future assets in terms of picks,

(55:15):
because you have your future assets alreadyon a team. The problem with that
scenario is if Ji Borrow Smith doesn'tlearn how to shoot or relearn how to
shoot, he's not going to belong as a starter in the NBA.
If Taro doesn't learn how to finishat the rim and you know, get
a little bit smarter as an offensiveplayer, I think you know, in
terms of play call and things likethat. He's going to struggle to be
a long term starter. Sheng Goonneeds to get better defensively, Jilly needs

(55:37):
to get bet You know, thequestions about all of our young players where
we don't have the sure fire,and I feel very good. I feel
I'm very high on our young players, but there are too many questions where
you can lock that young core inand say, if this is the young
care now let's give the old courtand we'll do eve them both together.
I think you still need to keepbuying lottery tickets, which is what Almen
is and which is why I havehim, you know, high even most

(55:59):
of a guy for Houston, becausehe is the ultimate lot to take away.
He I think has a highest seating. Ben Jolan, did you know
you're asking about ivy Elia just ayou know cycle is back in and around
by way, I think Gman isa bad prospect than Joalen was, So
you know about a very high lucktricin my opinion, absolutely, And by
the way, we've we haven't talkedmuch about other top ten guys. When
you look at Jeris Walker, AnthonyBlack, Taylor, Hendrix, to me,

(56:23):
you know it's not that it's unfathomable, but they're just lesser versions of
other guys that are likely to beon the board for the Rockets, assuming
they stay in the top ten.Blacks a solid prospect, but the Thompson
twins to me, are better andplay similar roles. When we talk about
Walker and Hendricks, it's tougher forme to see a clear fit with the
Rockets, given Jabari, given Tari, given Shangoon, given the investment you've

(56:45):
already put in the front court.To me, it's more likely that you
go with a guy who's going tohave a cleaner route to immediate playing time
and more of a fit long termin terms of how the current core you
have fits together. So it's notso much of those aren't good prospects.
It's just to me because they're slightlybehind, and you know, we should

(57:07):
throw a whit more in the mixas well. When we're talking about the
wings, it's more that those guysjust aren't great fits with the roster the
Rockets currently have. That's sort ofhow I see it. Am I missing
anything there? No? I completelyagree. I didn't really do much scouting
on Keyonte George and Antony Black,just from what I saw of them,
and you know, hearing trusted peopleas well, they just never seem to

(57:29):
be a top five pick, youknow, where they candidate. So I
watched a little bit, but Ididn't really dig that much deep because I
just didn't see them as ever beingon Houston's radar. And I think I've
heard I've seen has changed that.I think Jaris is the only one of
those guys that you know, shouldbe at least on my radar. But
I think, you know, Ijust don't think he, like I said,
he's not a lot to a ticket. You know, there are some

(57:50):
people who think he could give anX Raymond. I think that's absolutely wild.
I do not agree. But Istill think he's a good prospect.
But you know, this could potentiallybe Houston's last top five, six seven
picks. So yet another high potentialguy because you need to keep keep trying
to get that star. I thinkwe just need to keep trying to get

(58:12):
hits. It's quick, I thinka lot of it. It's positional as
well. It's the fact that you'relikely getting a guy that's going to fight
for minutes with Darias and the partySmith and likely whoever they bring in whether
it is a Bruce Brown or someonelike that. And so I'm not I'm
not going to confidently say that I'drather have clear us walk at the entire
reason for example, and them.That may be a hot take, but

(58:35):
it's close enough to the point ofwriting not really considering them with our top
pick, would rather one of thesnares that we've listened to before. So
do you mean you'd rather have TarioJaris? Yes, yeah, I see
what you mean. Yeah, tome, it's cured of that. You
have to at least take it intoconsideration. Yeah, I mean it's the
same for you know, if wehad a censer on the draft board,

(58:55):
like I'm high enough on Shengoon toto want to not cost you that of
the same with Tari as well.So I think it's definitely reasonable to think
about it. I mean, youknow, the NBA has proven to be
a league where you can't have toomany wings, but you can't have too
many wings as well at the sametime. Okay, So as we wind

(59:15):
down our discussion, I want totalk a bit about pick twenty, the
second that the Rockets have in thefirst round, and before we go into
any particulars, I want to talkabout sort of the value of that pick,
because for the Rockets, they alreadyhave a deep roster they're going to
add in free agency, they're goingto have a higher pick in the first
round. So this is a pickwhere you need to go best player available

(59:37):
or best asset available. If you'rethe Rockets, and maybe the in depth
trading out altogether, it could makesense to try and get a future first
that has more liquidity on the trademarket. There's no guarantee that the Rockets
stick there, but for purposes ofour discussion, let's pretend they do keep
another pick in the first round,either stay at twenty, or perhaps move
up or down a few slots.One thing that's interesting, and I've seen

(59:58):
this idea gained some traction on Twitterthe last few days, is potentially moving
up a few slots with the inclusionof Jay Shawn Tate. One hypothetical I
saw was maybe trying to move upto seventeen with the Lakers. I believe
if you don't execute the deal untilJuly, you actually could do twenty and
Tate for seventeen because the Lakers willhave cap room. They won't on Draft

(01:00:22):
night, but they will once youget to July, assuming you stagger the
moves correctly, because they have somany guys rolling off the books, even
with the cap holds, you wouldbe able to Offloadate and Tate. You
know, it's not that he's abad player, he's just not quite an
age alignment with the corps in Houston, and he's a bit redundant when you
look at the front Coork guys theyalready had like Jabari and Tari and kJ
Martin and so on and so forth. David Wiener b Methogue had a proposal

(01:00:45):
today I saw of maybe offering Tatetwenty and some second run picks to Dallas
for number ten and Reggie Bullock,which would basically be a cash saving move
clear their books a little bit atthat point. The incidents are if you're
moving up to seventeen, then youknow, you get Tate off your books
entirely, and that gives the Rocketseven more salary cap room heading into July.

(01:01:07):
The proposal that David put together sortof the opposite. It's using some
of your salary cap room to absorba slightly blow a deal from another team
in that case, to move upten spots. But I think conceptually,
because Tate feels a little bit redundanthere, and he's not in perfect age
alignment, and he does fit forteams that are trying to win now,
which generally a lot of the teamsand the teams are attempting to do.

(01:01:30):
Then it's not all that unfathomable tosee a scenario where the Rockets explore what
twenty and Tate could do for them, or maybe even twenty and KPJ,
although I think that's less likely fora number of reasons, both this contract
and his fit and whether there's thisclear of a need takes a lot more
plug and play. He can fitout a lot of rosters. Everybody wants

(01:01:50):
a guy like Jayshawn Tate that's tryingto win now. So with that in
mind, how much of a teargap do you see between like twenty in
say the Lakers at seventeen, orif we're talking about you know, twenty
and a team like Dallas at ten. I agree that that's probably a bit
extreme. Most people thought that themass would decline that again, maybe you

(01:02:13):
can sweeten the pot with a fewseconds, as David tossed out in his
hypothetical, but just talk if youcould Nathan about like sort of the tears
and just how much of a depththere is between I guess you know,
the ten through fifteen range, thefifteen through twenty range, and whether you
think it's worth it in your eyesfor the Rockets to potentially try and move

(01:02:34):
up with that with that pick aspart of a consolidation move. Yeah,
I think it's kind of interesting actually, because I think those tears are already
well defined and very even numbers.I think you know, ten through fifteen,
you've got you know, Grady DickKeantejo Casing well as well as kind
of players. And then in thelatter teams, that's where Heaton should really
be looking at Whitehead Lively, maybeLeonard Miller has some funds and Sentivac has

(01:02:58):
had his fans all season. Andthen I think after that once twenties where
I think it drops off into youreally looking like I mean, Houston could
very much value someone like Chris Murerjust to come in and play. As
you know, I think it'll betwenty four next season, but you're not
really necessarily at that point. Youmight just think we would rather have a
player who we know as an NBAplayer right now so I think it just
does drop off air and you're sortof thinking, you know, should we

(01:03:20):
start looking at draft and stash guyswill cooler? Bally would Nagi and Barcelona
potentially play in a G league orstay abroad. But if you're looking at
kind of like my favorite prospects,and this is not a hot take,
I think most people are interested inmiss white Head or Lively, and I
think they're getting so much love rightnow. I mean, white it's kind
of going to be away because ofthe injury, but especially Lively just seems
to be shooting up boards. Buttrading take to just to move up and

(01:03:45):
get the guy. Houston has beenaggressive in getting a guys like Shingoon.
The obviously trade it too, picksfour Tories, and I think they felt
pretty good by He's going to doctorhim at seventeen, but they kind of
targeted him. So I think bythe draft will have a fairly good idea
of who they like, and thisconversation might be a bit easier to have.
But I would target while I headin Lively and I think getting rid

(01:04:08):
of tape, that's six point fivemillion just cleared off a cap space right
there to the price of an extrafive hundred grand of the draft cop cap
hold. So that could be thedifference between getting Cam Johnson and not getting
Cam Johnson, or forcing Brooklyn tomatch a high offer and getting Seph Curry
to shake loose or Rossa Neil toshake loose. So just the cap space
clearance of tape, I think isis an interesting one. It's not exactly

(01:04:30):
my highest priority because I would befine of him on the ROSTA next year.
But if you don't think he's goingto be cracking a rotation, which
I think he would in a Kudokarotation, But if you don't think that
just even just a cap clearing movethat opens up, I mean that gets
you to seventeen million in cap space. That's that's that's pretty high. Yeah,
So I can I have a theoryon this, and I get to
that a little bit later on.But I think that at twenty and I

(01:04:57):
think the rocketet guard up and fairlywork you with their late bis or where
they've went with exception of twenty fourand twenty three and two years ago.
I think at twenty you're right atthe end of a tier, which means
if you want to spend it positively, which means you're com guaranteed to get
like a guy like Jet Howard ora guy maybe Jordan Hawkins fault his feet,
nobody falls in love with him.Maybe you're able to get Kui Valley

(01:05:20):
there or Kiki Jackson there right,one of the guys that you can send
to the Quille in Heaven there becausethey're going to mean those development tripes.
The bonus with what Ben is sayingis that instead of being what we've been
so far, which is the teamthat gets you know, that's just inside
a tier, and so they're goingto get someone from that year, but
they won't really get to choose.You get to choose, and it might

(01:05:43):
be the difference between getting what's leftover and getting and my guys would be
the same guys as Nathan's, DerecWively or the requite Head, which to
me are at the top of thatsame tier. So I think there's definitely
valued there. I'm also kind ofdesperate to move a lot of the lower
end assets on this roster, whetherthat be Katie Martin, whether that be

(01:06:04):
khanate Um. Christopher I don't thinkhas value at all, but if someone
values him either Washington or I'm missingsomeone Ruba because I think coming into next
year, I don't think any ofthese if they if they shape the roster
of the way I expect them toweek, I think would be James hard
than plus a couple of other effects, one with the romaining Caps plays,

(01:06:27):
one with their room mid level exception. These guys are not gonna play,
and it's gonna be tough because ifthey don't play for a full year and
and no winsuries happened. But I'mnot even thought they'll be ready to play
for the for the full year.As as far as raft pick, because
can I make an appeal? ButTy Washington tie has been forgotten. You

(01:06:48):
know, I completely agree Josh isnot long for the NBA. I don't
think. I think Garuba, youknow, has some potential, but I
don't think he will be long forhis team. Thy Washington is going to
be a very solid, very goodback upon guard for a long time.
I believe in this league. Youknow, he's with Cinema, low turn
overs, a smart play. Ithink he's going to be a good defender
as he puts on weight, He'sgot a really long wingspan. He's a

(01:07:09):
very good chaser. Off ball.I think he could guard two guards.
You know you're you're shooting guard.The guy who runs around screens and gets
open and that floor is nasty.In between game, he calms everyone down.
Everyone's been begging for Tyree Jones,that kind of player. T Tie
Washington, I really hope gets achance to play a solid forteen minutes a
night every night going forward. AndI would really hope that Houston doesn't give

(01:07:32):
up on him. See I don'teven disagree with you, but of the
guys I listed, is the guyam highest star. Yeah, yeah,
I just struggled to see realistically they'regoing to run a nine or then when
road I think at eight or ninemen roads, and I think at the
minerals it may even be a strength. And I just struggle to see these
guys getting any playing time at all. And if you're going to if they're

(01:07:53):
going to go to the T League, or they're going to see at the
end of the bench, they're justgoing to sit there depreciating in value,
Which is why I feel hard pressedto make moves like what Bench just said,
even if it's just a slight tradeup and trade might look great on
another team and you might look fullwidfor trading for that heat. The truth
is the alternative is likely letting themrun on the bench, and so it's

(01:08:16):
kind of just a mismanagement of assets. It's not huge because the I don't
think these guys have much vality.You might be able to get a first
round pick for kJ Martin just becauseto a contender, a guy on that
can contribute like he can on atwo million dollars a year salary can move
the needle for him for some teamsthat are really struggling with flexibility. But
other than that, I think theseare mostly guys are going to be that

(01:08:40):
half second round pick type value ora slight trade up type of value.
And so I would love to dosomething that like what Bend just said.
If you're in a position just likelast year where at seventeen the Rockets at
Tari, but at sixteen I wasvery confident because they had either Sari or
a J. Griffin. If youif you see that I don't know,
the Lakers or the Hawks or thePelican or something or some team like that.

(01:09:06):
If you feel like there's only oneguy left of the guys that que
valuable of it here, that you'reon. I think it would be smart
to make them move, and ifthey don't make them move, I think
it would be smart to just tradethese guys out, even if it's for
seconds, because I'm setting it intothe bend. If it's five of them,
it's just the ways you could keeptwo, three of them, you

(01:09:26):
can send them to a queer,the younger ones. I think it's just
tough. And then my theory isthat it just seemed really weird black here
that Tarison just fell to the rockets, considering Babe that he has ties to
Stone, they're both from Seattle.The entire draft cycle for tar Reason was

(01:09:47):
not the time draft cycle, theentire post lottery draft cycle Tarison, all
of a sudden was always seventeen seventeen. He was like, everybody knew that
this guy was going to seventeen.And I kind of feel like, and
this is not so, it's just, as I said, a conspiracy theory.
I feel like there was some manipulationthere to get our reason to fall
to seventeen. And I get thefeeling that something similar might happen this year

(01:10:12):
with Jet Howard, and all ofa sudden, worst we're not seeing Jet
Howard in the top twenty as muchthe guy that was marked too. The
entire Seton was very quietly and he'she's karacting apports. I have word seeing
Jet Howard as much as high aswe used to. He worked out with
the Rockets very early on. Heseems to be the type of I think

(01:10:33):
he's the type of player that's donewith value. He is a Rockets fan
since he was little. He's alwaysbeen a Rockets fan, and I just
feel like it might be one ofthose situations where the conspiracy theories in me
comes to the top and I thinkthere may be some handshake thing there with

(01:10:54):
a Jet may fall to twenty.I do like that, But I think
we slight issue with is I thinkHeaston will be very fluid and opening open
to trading that pick right up untilthe moment they make it. So I
don't know if that necessarily works asa kind of promise, because I think
they'll still be taking calls on iton Draft night. What don't they?
Yeah, I think so it makessense. Yeah, you can't exactly promise

(01:11:15):
a guy in that scenario. I'mgonna ask the same question to both of
you. You're much more draft nerdsthan I am. I've been focused for
Rockets wire on the bigger picture stuff, obviously, the hardened pursuit and free
agency and what's going to happen withpick four. I know both of you
have studied the crop of guys potentiallyavailable at pick twenty a lot more than
I have, So same question toeach of you. Tell me five guys

(01:11:40):
at the top of your list whenit comes to reasonable targets at pick twenty,
or let's say, I mean thesame could be maybe they move up
a pick or two. Let's sayfive guys in that general range that you
think are plausible for the Rockets,assuming they stay somewhere in the vicinity of
pick twenty. Nathan, you cango first, okay. So I have
Lively Whitehead and Bryce Senter back asmy three main guys, who are all

(01:12:05):
very reasonable. I think Ryan RupairRyan Rupert, I would have said a
few months ago, I have cooledon him slightly, so I would sort
of like to go back and reviewa tape on him. And then my
last guy is kind of it wouldbe cooler Bally from Matta Partons, although
I have now sowe off all Frenchplayers forever, so you know we can

(01:12:27):
trade him immediately. But if youwould have asked me a month ago,
I would have said him, waitjust before I give my top I real
quick. This may be just aneat thing, but does the fact this
is the weirdest question I'm ever goingto ask him a podcast. That's the
fact that he's friend and he's reallyyoung, not bring out of you some
sort of soft spot forum that hasthat is something And I think this is

(01:12:51):
with me. This is some sortof something that's happening that has some ties
to European football because the French wonderkids always pan out and this guy just
just looks like a friend that measurementsare all there. He's I don't know,
although I will say for me,I hate all of France now after

(01:13:11):
everything had happened with the draft lotterynight and Wemby sort of middle fingering the
rockets and his reaction, Yeah,I hate all of France now. Is
that's teammates? So is that notrelated? Are you sure that's not related
to the performance West people fun atjust Head? Oh god, you know
Franz. It's a double below forme because Franz just you know, be

(01:13:33):
England of a World Cup in thowe played him off the park, so
they used to always beat us.But we want our yours against them,
so they get they get a passfor me. Okay, I'll get into
on their home court, on theirhome stadium as well. Um, so
I'll get into my top five.I think the top the first guy is
Eric Wively, the second guy isthe the requite head as well, and

(01:13:56):
then I'll go get Howard. Myunrealistic pick will be Jonathan Hawkins and went
to stay still clear of Guli Valleybecause of that bias that I just talked
about. And I'm gonna throw abone at Marcus Sasser because I think at
least through this rebuild we've got toget one U of it. But yeah,
I think that would be something thatTillman supports as well. I know

(01:14:18):
what probably killed him when they didn'tget Quinton Grimes, especially when Josh Christopher
to this point doesn't look like he'sgot a hit. I'm sure behind closed
doors, Tillman FTIDA has to bewondering, damn, why couldn't we have
taken Quinton Grimes with that last firstround pick in twenty twenty one and at
least have had the U of Hfactor to sort of draw it a few
more people to Toyota Center during thesebasement years, can I can I throw

(01:14:41):
in one wild card guy as anearly second if we moved back. I
was like him Hacks junior from UCLAwho's played him in college for three fo
years now, but very capable roleplayer, but would be my early second
round guy if that's why we endup Nathan Trainless. I don't think this
guy is a fit for the Rocketsbecause simply they already have depth. We've

(01:15:04):
talked about eating to consolidate several times, but I've convinced Madison to put Kobe
Brown into the top thirty. Whatdo you think about him? And even
if not for the Rockets, doyou see a path for him contributing somewhere.
I have to be honest, I'mnot familiar enough with his game.
Okay, look, okay, that'syour assignment, man. Yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah, he's only positivethings. Yeah he's a verstal forward.

(01:15:27):
He got forty six percent for three. But that's yes. But that's the
question because up until this year heactually was not a good shooter. So
it's a relatively small it's an relativelysmall sample. Now. In his defense,
he is twenty three years old.Missoo's coaching until this year was very
arcade, and basically they had abig jump last off season, going from

(01:15:47):
just very much running like nineties andtwo thousand sets to under Jenna Skate's like
pretty progressive New age offense and hereally benefited from that. And so to
me, that strikes me something thatbeyond just a small sample might indicate what
he can do more in the NBA. So, even though he's twenty three,
again, the circumstances of his development, I think he was artificially held
back a little bit by sort ofthe archaic system they hadn't placed his first

(01:16:10):
four years. But yeah, betweenhis age, he's an older prospect,
which inherently means a bit less upsideand the fact the rockets already stocked at
the forward spots between Jabari tar Aj Sean kJ so on and so forth.
Yeah, I don't think he's reallya fit here, but I would
love to see him hit somewhere,and Madison has him in the top thirty
now. So Nathan, that's myassignment for you. Check out some Kobe
Brown footage whenever you have some time, and we'll go from there. Wait

(01:16:32):
a minute, Wait a minute.This dude was born January first, two
thousand, Yes, absolutely hilarious.Yes, January first, two thousand,
Yes, that's crazy. Yeah.If he a prospects bone to phone nine
eleven is quiet, think and quieta bit. I mean that's wow.
Yeah, I mean the nine elevencut off. Yeah yeah, yeah,
I mean he says a Y twok cut off. Yeah, Well he

(01:16:54):
made it. Anyway, Well,we've checked off everything on my list.
Any parting shot that either of youwant to throw out before we close down,
no, I just I'm very excited. I know it's a gutting blow
to not get wemb scoot, ButArman Thompson I think is a better prospect
than Jayleen was aways very close.I think it's a better prospects Benja Bari

(01:17:15):
was. And those are two highdraft picks. So be very excited because
we've got potential to draft. Youknow, he's got questions, big problems,
but also a very very high future, so very tantalizingly high prospect.
So you go with Alman Thompson asthe blue chip of all blue chips as
far as the Houston rebuild. Ifthey get it, well, I mean
Jaalen, I think has shown mesome most stuff. You know, we've

(01:17:35):
got two years of him playing inthe NBA now and doing well. I
think so, I think Jayleen,you know, two years in, you
know, I think I think he'sgoing to be a very good you know,
very quickly. Just look at hisfree frod rowing, that's my big
thing. Look at his foul erroon tw end of the season, and
some playmaking. But going into thedraft, I would have said, I'm
most excited about Armin and I alsolike Jayleen and Jabari. Yeah, so

(01:17:57):
that's a good position to be andI think, yeah, my parting shot
is that, um, in whata month now, we'll look back on
this podcast and see that eighty percentof our conversation was actually useless because Scoot
fell to four and we drafted therequirefully. Hello, I'm so proud of
you for going to early this wholepodcast without talking about Scoot. And we're

(01:18:18):
training for Polo as well. Ohwow. Yeah, although we'll get who
is the guy, but the Pelicansdrafted Paolo Oh, Kira Lewis, Kayler
Lewis, we'll get him back.Yeah, and and and while we're added
from that draft, we'll also getjab Smith and he's going to beat Capello
with a three point shot. Byback then, I didn't know, did

(01:18:38):
not know anything about the draft,and that was my COMFIM. So yeah,
twenty five and fifty seven record.Although I will say when we're talking
about proud about twenty five points ofthat team, if we're talking about prospects
from this draft, I'm gonna predictthat five years from now, the most
obvious NBA storyline, if the ThompsonTwins hit in the late twenty twenties or
twenty thirty range, we're gonna betalking about how the Thompson Twins play together

(01:19:00):
and how they manipulate the system toget on the same team. To me,
that's the most obvious, like fiveto seven years storyline. And I
don't know, maybe if you getone of those guys, and let's say
you get Amen and he turns outto be you know, as you've been
saying, Nathan, a stud anda star is more of a high end
role player, then obviously makes moresense for the role player to follow the
star than the other way around.So who knows, maybe there's a path

(01:19:21):
waiting on the line that you canadd a star to him, of course,
club control, rookie deals, that'sa long way off. But to
me, if we're talking like superlong term, come on, is that
not the most obvious storyline for likefive to seven years from now? And
I got a more obvious one.I got a more obvious one. In
five to seven years, the Sonicsare going to come back, and we're

(01:19:42):
going to witness a repeat of theshack going getting out of Orlando. Orlando's
gonna get cold feet about paying Maxto what seems like a frenchlis player for
some reason, and they're all goingto go to the Sonics and KPT is
going to join them there, andTarison's going to join them there, and
it's going to be the both ofthem bring So yeah, think that's my
old guys, and they'll they'll boatFelstone as well. Well, that's why

(01:20:05):
I was gonna say. Houston hasso many Seattle connections now between Murfell and
KPJ. And Ochar's a Seattle guytoo, isn't he. Yeah, yes,
yeah, yeah. So hopefully theHouston roster and organization has turned over
enough by then that that's not asmuch of a factor, because right now,
boy, there could be a lotof poaching from the Seattle area as

(01:20:26):
well. Last year at the draft, Heuston definitely wanted him and he's here,
right, You're right, yeah,great point. All right, well
we will put a bow on thisright here. Guys, thank you so
much for doing this and hopefully,as far as our listeners, this can
help you get through Memorial Day weekend. We typically don't do two episodes in
a week, but we may dothat a bit more over the next month
because we know there's a lot ofinterest when it comes to the Houston Rockets

(01:20:47):
and the NBA Draft and we wantto be a source of good content for
you guys, So check out ourarchives for more because we may be putting
out some additional episodes. This beingthe first two episode week. We had
Brian Kolbrowski of USA Today in theepisode that dropped on Wednesday with all sorts
of fun draft tidbits and nuggets.If you've not checked it out again,

(01:21:08):
hit up our logger line archives whereveryou're listening to this Apple, Google,
Spotify, just hit up our linktree at the logger line on Twitter and
you can find your distributor of choice, Paulo Nathan. Thanks so much,
is there anything else? One lastthing, One last thing when when they
ask you where you were when whenthe Celtics won game to you in the

(01:21:29):
en route to the first come backfrom a three year deficit, You're going
to say that you were recording aboutpast with two guys from Europe. They're
up there? Did there? Theywere up twenty to five? Wow?
Yeah, like that seconds ago.It's tent and the absence of Gabe Vincent,
by the way, that's pretty significant. I mean, crazier things have
happened. And if it gets toGame seven, that's going to get interesting

(01:21:53):
in a hurry. And it shouldbe noted. I've got to do this
as an Astros fan. But didy'all notice how in Game four and Miami,
somehow both Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeterrecord side And of course, Alex
Rodriguez and Direk Jeter are the starsof the two thousand and four Yankees team
that became the first MLB team everto blow a three nothing lead two of
all teams Boston when it was theRed Sox coming back from down three zero,

(01:22:15):
and somehow Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter. I don't know why the heat
didn't just kick them off the courtat that point, being like, dude,
that's the most obvious bad homent ever, those two guys on the court
with a three o lead. Yeah, if that happens, Yeah, like,
that's gonna be an all time meme. The shot of a Rod and
Derek Jeter court side in Miami withthe heat blowing at the three nothing edge.
It's just anyad that it just said. That's that's gonna make Bill Simmons

(01:22:38):
happy to be great toe, youknow, as a storyline. But we
can have that for Bill Simmons ifthis happens for him, I need the
Red Sox to get some by Jarmanand took her for at least ten more
years. Hey, now, BillSimmons was the one and only Jabari Smith
Junior First Team voter out of ahundred so generation. You know, all

(01:23:00):
right, Well I was gonna ask. I'm assuming Twitter is the best place
for both of you guys, Pauloat Paulo Alves NBA and Nathan at Nathan
Fogg one. As far as content, Yeah, I'm going to do a
big, really long video on min thumps and breaking down his hell season.
So I also have a YouTube channelcalled t on Rockets for obvious reasons,
which you can probably guess. Androckets that whole that's you know,
probably be an awa long. I'mnot sure how long I'll run see,

(01:23:23):
but that will be very in detail. Yeah, and you've got that YouTube
channel linked to your Twitter page atNathan Fogg one correct, yes, thank
you, yes, perfect. AndPaulo it's Paolo Alves NBA. Unlike Paolo
Bankiro, it's p a U.L O. For those who are not
following Paulo already. Yeah, peoplefollow me for the poultry nowadays. Yeah,

(01:23:43):
and well and people follow you forastros obviously. All right, Well,
this is where we will finally adjournfor Paulo and Nathan. I'm Ben.
If you're not already following me onTwitter, you can do so at
Ben Dubos mentioned the show the loggerline. You can do so at the
logger line, and then our sponsorsand partner just check out that link tree
at the logger line and that's whereyou can find links to Sports Talk seven

(01:24:04):
ninety Rockets, wire Carback Brewing.Of course, this show served you courtesy
of Klutch to the lagger the beerof Carback Brewing developed in collaboration with the
Houston Rockets. You can find allof their content and their websites. All
that information is available through the linktree, which you can find at the
logger Line on Twitter. With thatcomplete, we will adjourn for Paulo and

(01:24:26):
Nathan. I'm Ben. Thanks asalways for listening. Enjoy your Memorial Day
weekend, and please come back soonfor another new episode of the logger Line.

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