June 15, 2023 • 37 mins
Michael A. Scotto, national NBA writer for HoopsHype, joined our podcast to discuss the latest offseason rumors surrounding the Houston Rockets and their 2023 draft and free agency plans.
Is general manager Rafael Stone increasingly set on selecting Amen Thompson at No. 4 overall? In a conversation with Ben DuBose and Paulo Alves, Scotto offers fresh insight on that and other draft considerations, including trade possibilities to move up or down in the first-round order and for a veteran player from another team.
The interview then switches gears to free agency, with topics ranging from Houston’s long-rumored pursuit of James Harden to whether restricted free agents such as Brooklyn’s Cam Johnson and Austin Reaves of the Los Angeles Lakers are potentially attainable.
Is general manager Rafael Stone increasingly set on selecting Amen Thompson at No. 4 overall? In a conversation with Ben DuBose and Paulo Alves, Scotto offers fresh insight on that and other draft considerations, including trade possibilities to move up or down in the first-round order and for a veteran player from another team.
The interview then switches gears to free agency, with topics ranging from Houston’s long-rumored pursuit of James Harden to whether restricted free agents such as Brooklyn’s Cam Johnson and Austin Reaves of the Los Angeles Lakers are potentially attainable.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome toThe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety, The lagger Line.
It's proudly served to you by CarboxClutch City lagger It is good. Oh
yeah, Red Nation, get Ready, get Ready, get Ready. The
(00:26):
lagger Line starts now. Welcome onboard. Welcome in to a special interview episode
of the lagger Line, served toyour courtesy of Clutch City lagger of Carback
Brewing. As always, it's hostedby me Ben Dubos along with my good
(00:48):
friend out of Portugal, Palo Alves. In addition to Carbok. I should
also mention that this show is puttogether and promoted with support from our friends
over at USA Today's Rockets Wire,where I'm the editor, along with Sports
Talks seven ninety, official flagship radiostation of your Houston Rockets. If you
check out our Loggerline archives, whichyou can easily do at your listening writer
of choice or by going to thelink tree that's in our Twitter bio at
(01:10):
the Loggerline, I urge you totake a listen if you haven't already,
that is, to our recent episodes, including our just release twenty twenty three
free agency preview. That's where bothPaulo and I spoke at considerable length with
our tidbits, analysis, opinions,you name it, about what may happen
in this pivotal offseason ahead for yourHouston Rockets. So again, if you
(01:32):
want our takes, there's plenty ofthose and the very recent archives. This
episode is going to be a bitdifferent because we've got a special guest here
for an exclusive interview, and wewant this to be about his information and
insight. It's Michael Scotto, nationalNBA writer for Hoops Hype, which is
also a part of the USA Todaysports media group. Michael, thanks for
joining us, and I'll start youwith the most prominent question. The NBA
(01:56):
Draft is just one week away onThursday, June twenty second, what's the
latest you're hearing about the Rockets andwhat they may do at pick number four
in the first round. Well,first of all, my pleasure on joining
you. I would say that rightnow, for Houston, the name that
comes up the most is Amen Thompson, and if they stay at that,
if they stay at their slot rightnow, but they're certainly open to listening
(02:21):
to offers and are gauging the valueof the pick as well for potential win
now players. I think certainly,you know, for Houston, there's been
a lot of speculation about, youknow, whether they can get at James
Harden and other free agents that I'msure we're going to talk about, but
it really starts with this draft pickand for the off season at least,
(02:45):
and you know, the general consensusis that Amen Thompson will be the pick
if they keep it. If not, can they find a player that is
a win now guy that makes sensefor them, that would fit into that
cap space and not necessarily mess upsome potential plans that they have to use
(03:06):
it going forward. Certainly, ifthey are able to land James Harden,
he's going to take up a fairchunk of that money. And then you
know, they've been linked to otherplayers as well that are starting caliber guys.
So I think therein lies a littlebit of the issue. And of
course, you can always draft someonewith the fourth pick, take the best
player available overall, and then flipthe pick down the line, whether it's
(03:30):
you know, on draft night orafter him free agency. So that's that's
the latest right now. They don'thave a specific player that they're eyeing necessarily
with that pick as of now.But if you know one thing about rafel
Stone, he's he's open to hearingand talking about anything, and certainly teams
have cold to inquire on that fourthpick. Yeah. The way it was
(03:53):
described to me when I checked ina few days ago was that the Rockets
wouldn't make a decision based on JamesHarden with the number four pick. In
other words, they view that assetwhen you're talking about someone like Amen Thompson
who's just twenty years old, orkmWhitmore who's just eighteen, if he enters
into the mix, Look, you'retalking about someone that could be a fixture
(04:15):
in your rotation for a generation.And James Harden turns thirty four this summer.
So they're insistent that the pursuit ofHarden is not correlated with who they
would select at that spot. However, there is a world in which if
you find the right guy to tradenumber four four, then to your point,
(04:36):
Michael, they would be more likelyto sign James Harden. In other
words, if you're able to tradepick four for a win now piece,
then all of a sudden it mightmake more sense for them to go the
extra mile to bring in James Hardenin a way that might not if they're
taking another young guy. And itlooks like the timeline as far as when
they can compete for the playoffs andeventually beyond, is pushed back a couple
(04:59):
more years. So it's not somuch that Harden would drive the decision.
It's actually the decision that would driveHarden. The question is who that player
might be. Now the last coupleof days, everyone's been talking about the
Zion Williamson hypothetical. Sham's had earlierin the week that Zion to one of
the teams with the second or thirdoverall pick might be doable. With the
(05:20):
Pelicans eyeing Scoot Henderson. Rafael Barlow, who does locked on NBA Big Board,
mentioned that he had heard Zion asa potential target for the Rockets involving
their four pick. Now, I'massuming the Rockets would have to pay more
of a premium than Charlotte at twoor Portland at three, simply because the
prospect at four likely. I'm andThompson not quite in the same tier,
(05:41):
at least in the eyes of thePelicans as Scoot Henderson. But I have
a really tough time gauging Zion's value. Clearly, when he plays, he's
generational, and now he's locked upfor a five year deal and if he's
right again, absolute superstar. Yethe's also a guy who has had issues
with conditioning, and just in termsof overall durability, he's played in thirty
(06:03):
games or less in three of hisfour seasons. I know you haven't reported
on anything Zion related in terms ofconcrete rumors. I'm just curious your perspective.
Michael is someone that covers the league. What do you think his value
is? Can New Orleans still getvalue close to what it would be if
he was healthy, or are theypotentially forced or willing to take something of
(06:25):
a discount based on the concerns thatthe company, I suppose his medicals.
My perspective on that is that ifyou're first of all, if you're going
to trade Zion and you're in NewOrleans, you're not trying to move him
for necessarily a discount because that youngcore it's still got a chance, it
still has a chance to be reallygood for a long time. Looking ahead
(06:48):
with him in brandon Ingram, Iknow they have CJ. McCollum there,
but ultimately, and he's a littlebit older, but ultimately, you know,
if you were taking a quote unquotediscount, I don't know, maybe
it'd be like ninety percent of hisvalue. Like he's still young, He's
(07:08):
got to get his conditioning right.I think the biggest question is you know
with him, like you said,the help for him, but I don't.
I'll say this, if he wentto an organization like Portland, just
given their injury history in the year'spast with Grego and Brandon Roy oh Man,
I would be crossing my fingers onthat one. Yeah, I'd be
(07:28):
nervous ifive with him. But itsounds like it sounds like from your perspective
that if Houston was to try andmake a bid for him, that it
would take a lot more than justthe four pick. You'd have to do
the four pick and likely some sortof future assset or maybe a member of
your existing young corps. If hestill lives at ninety percent of his value,
then it's likely four plus a prettygood asset on top of that.
(07:49):
Yeah, because most of the league, now you know Houston, I'll tell
you that they don't view I'm inThompson, is that big of a gap
from the other guys, But ultimatelythe rest of the league use this pretty
highly as a three player draft.At the top, like one, Ban
Yama is his own tier, andthen scooton Miller are another tier, and
(08:09):
then after that there's a third tierif you talk to most people. So
with that said, you know,I think that they would have to get
Yeah, they don't have to getmore, but depending on the team,
I don't know what their appetite wouldbe for a guy like you know,
they have a lot of young players, you know, Alpa and Shangoon.
I don't I don't see Houston tryingto move necessarily unless it's something incredibly blockbuster
(08:33):
worthy like Jalen Green or Jabari Smithgiven out high they were drafted. You
know, maybe, you know,if you're getting like a big like Zion,
do you maybe feel better about partingwith a Shangoon and and things along
those lines, you know, becauseeven Zion players essentially power forward even though
(08:54):
they be positionless. There's different waysto look at it. I just think
that ultimately, if you're in NewOrleans, I think it's at least you
know, like John's kind of likehinted at it that it's maybe more possible
than in years past. But Ithink in years past it was an absolute
no. At least now you maybethink about it, and I think that's
(09:16):
a relative point. It needs tobe stated here. I think that makes
a lot of sense. We've we'vebeen hearing throughout, you know, the
off season thus far that the Rocketsare open to treating Pick four. We
heard it last year, we heardthe year before, nobody really bought it.
This is really the first year ofpeople are starting to buy it because
of the kinte in direction. Whenit comes to the reveal, you talked
(09:37):
about treating the pick for effect,I want to address a different angle.
You reported July eighth that wait,yeah, and ad sorry that Orlando was
interested in moving six plus eleven tomove up into the three to five range.
And I'm expecting that the three rangeand the fourth to five ranges are
(09:58):
two different things. But you seefrom the Rockets perspective them doing a move
like that, or if they're movingoff a floor, it's it's it's for
effect or more someone more experienced.I don't think right now there's an there's
I don't think there's an appetite forthat right now, just to go from
four to six and eleven, Ithink that there would have to be you
(10:18):
know, if Orlando was maybe lookingapart with one of their younger players,
then maybe it's a different conversation.But just the draft pick straight up,
I'm not sure that that's enough forthe Rockets to do. They've already got
enough young pieces, you know whatI'm saying. They that's why they're looking
to add a lot of veterans andfree agency and try to improve as a
(10:39):
win now team going into next yearor to well, when I say win
now, I mean to make aleap. You know, they're not going
to necessarily be a title team nextyear, but to be a playoff team
and move forward in that direction.Yeah, I guess one of the interesting
things when you look at Orlando's roster, they're are some young pieces. I
(11:01):
know a couple of years ago itwas reported that the Rockets like Jalen Suggs.
Now, he's still young, buthe's a bit more advanced than the
rookie he's going into year three.Is that the kind of scenario that might
tempt the Rockets if it's maybe sixplus a young player as opposed to six
plus eleven something along those lines.I would imagine it would have to be
a young player, but I thinkit'd have to be more than Jalen Suggs
(11:22):
respective Respectfully, I don't I don'tthink he would be the guy that moves
the needle. You know, ifwhen I look at Orlando and you know,
you look at their core, Powell'snot going anywhere. I doubt Franz
Wagner's going anywhere right now. Whendel carters on an incredible contract and he's
a very productive player, I don'tthink they'd be looking to move him unless
(11:45):
it was a blockbuster move. Idon't know if the fourth pick at that
point is to do that. Ithink it would be more for more Lando's
perspective to get into that top three. You know, if you can get
a guy like Scoot Henderson and hefalls to three, it opens up a
Pandora's box of trade scenarios for theBlazers, who I think, if they
(12:07):
want to keep Damian Lillard happy orhappier, I should say they're gonna get
a guy that's a win now player. And I think that really is where
a lot of dominos could fall.Because if you're Charlotte, sure they're going
to listen to a bunch of things. But if you're Charlotte, you've got
LaMelo, you could You've got LaMeloand Mark Williams. Is essentially you're building
(12:28):
blocks going forward. Right now,You've got a big and you've got a
point guard. Do you go withBrandon Miller and put them at the three?
Can Scoot Henderson and LaMelo co exists? That's that's the question you've got
to ask yourself. If you're Charlotte, obviously Miller would be an easier fit
of the two. But you getrisky at that point when you start going
(12:50):
fit over talent. And I thinkthere are more people in the league that
would say that's Scoot Henderson would bethe number two prospect. And the reason
I'll say that real quick is because, and this gets brought up to me
a decent amount by executives. IfScoot Henderson and Victor weman Yama had that
duel that they did for the twoexhibition games at the end of the year
(13:11):
instead of the beginning of the year, this isn't even a conversation. This
isn't even a conversation. It wouldbe Scoot Henderson. So you know,
Brandon Miller and the tournament was hurtwas dealing with the criminal case and you
know, didn't have a good showingin the tournament. So it's interesting to
(13:31):
me that, you know, Millerkind of leap frog Scoot there. I
think that was again just more fitthan anything and logistics from people trying to
make a determination on that. Sothe other thing is Charlotte could take Scoot
and then hold them and try toflip them for something better because they think
that why not. I think everything'sgot to be on the table, and
(13:54):
we saw last year with Orlando theywaited till the very end and kept the
cars close to their best. Theonly thing you know right now going into
the draft is that victim one Minyama'sgoing on to the San Antonio Spurs after
that. I still don't think thingsare determined going forward as nearly as simplistically
as as people would like. Youknow, absolutely agree with you as far
(14:18):
as and what you've heard from exactlyas far as how good Scoot is,
you know, I think it's sortof following caro esque from last year that
he's following to three and in somany scenarios, my question would be,
and I can't keep myself from fromfrom asking this, even at a personal
level, do you see any waythat the Rockets could be the team that's
(14:39):
moving up to to go and getScoot good? Could the fact that they
say, oh, we don't havethem many different tiers be somewhat posturing that
in a scenario where they do Itry to trade up, they want to,
you know, kind of look likethey don't want it that much.
So if they don't look desperate,I think, And if so, what
do you think the price would belike to to move up? If from
four to three or two together thatI scoot. You know, when Kelly
(15:03):
Eko came on the Hoopside podcast andhe said that they viewed Am and Thompson
closer in that tier with Brandon Millerand Scoot Henderson more so than people elsewhere
outside the league believe it to be. I took that as posturing, because
(15:24):
if the majority of the league viewsit to be a different tier, that's
the consensus ultimately, so I thoughtit was posturing out. I think Houston
has the if you just look froman asset perspective, do they have enough
assets to theoretically tempt Charlotte or Portlandto move up. I think more so
(15:48):
Charlotte than Portland because Portland would belooking for more of a win now player,
and Houston's roster is loaded with youngerguys with upside looking ahead. So
I would think it would be abetter opportunity with Charlotte, and Houston has
a bunch of picks looking ahead.So those Brooklyn assets could be intriguing.
(16:10):
Yeah, but the one thing aboutthe Nets is they're not just going to
tank. True. You know,I not to say that they're not good
asks, but if there's one thingwe've learned about the Nets from the Sean
Marks ever, even dating back towhen he first got there in Brooklyn,
well before Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irvingcame and eventually James Harden, they never
(16:30):
tanked. They put the you know, they weren't good in the beginning,
but they never tanked. So andthey have no incentive to do so.
So what Michail Bridges, who Ithink is an all star caliber guy next
year if he plays the way hedid after coming over from the Nets,
(16:51):
you know, and they have assetstoo where they're going to look to try
to improve this team going forward.But to answer Powell's question, I think
you're Houston and you're trying to moveup to get Scoot Henderson. I think
you've got to target Charlotte more becauseI think that their assets fit with Charlotte's
timeline more and could intrigue them morethan Portland, who's looking to win now
(17:17):
more so with Damian Lillard as theirfranchise piece. I want to switch gears
to free agency. But again,in the case of the Rockets, as
you laid out earlier, Mike,they're very much connected because what the Rockets
do in the draft may impact justhow viable they are as a James Hardens
suitor. And this is coming tofocus a lot more in recent days.
(17:40):
We were talking offline a few daysago and both of us thought that while
certainly possible, the Hardened return wasnot nearly as inevitable as some of the
media reports had made it seem likeit would be. Now this week,
you're starting to hear more and morethat, yeah, this is not a
done deal, and stehen A.Smith went out of his way to say
(18:02):
on ESPN's first Sake that he doesn'tthink it's happening that the Rockets are offering
the max at most two years certainlynot a four year and anything close to
the max. And you're hearing abit more rumblings about a potential return in
Philadelphia. We know Kelly Echo reportedon your podcast, Mike that Nick Nurse
had visited Harden a week or soago. So again, while certainly not
(18:25):
impossible, it's not nearly as inevitableas some of the narratives since Christmas had
made it seem. And the draftis such a key variable here, as
we were laying out earlier, becauseif the Rockets are able to get a
veteran piece, then that might makethem more willing to say, hey,
we should invest a bit more inJames Harden, something that would take to
(18:45):
close the deal because we can actuallymake the playoffs next year or a play
in push. So that's how thosetwo are connected, as opposed to,
you know, if you draft AmanThompson, who's something of a project,
then it's not as if you wantto push all your chips in for James
when you're looking at maybe winning thirtyfive ish games, even if you do
(19:06):
bring him in. So all thesethings are connected. So I guess with
that in mind, how much ifthe Rockets aren't able to swing a big
deal and they end up with anAman Thompson type or even if they're able
to get Scoot Henderson either by tradingup or he falls, how much do
you think they would willing to investin terms of years or money? And
(19:30):
is it potentially enough to offset aPhiladelphia team that clearly needs him a lot
more in the here and now.You know, this was an interesting topic
of conversation that Kelly and I hadon the Hoops Type podcast, and we
both agreed that the Houston doesn't wantto give hard in a max contract.
Now in that aspect, you're talkingforty five million dollars or more. I
(19:56):
think for Houston, you know,he's shown an ability to be closer to
the or thirties. Now, ifyou're Houston, do you have to go
more than that? Do you haveto go to like thirty five million to
maybe nudget a little bit more?What's Philadelphia offering? We don't know that
yet. I would just say thattheoretically and logically speaking, Philadelphia would be
(20:18):
more in that ballpark where his previousoffer was. So I don't know if
a few million dollars, you know, extra would make the difference. And
I don't know if it behooves Houstonto go that much higher than that with
all that cap space, because thenhe's taken a huge chunk of it as
opposed to maybe, you know,closer to half, and then you're divvying
(20:41):
it up. I think if JamesHarding goes back to Houston, theoretically it's
more about other dynamics, family dynamics, wanting to be home, the lifestyle
and whatnot. Because clearly, onpaper, you have a chance to play
(21:02):
with the MVP, the reigning MVPand Joe lmbiad and a top four team
on paper in the East and tryto compete in Philadelphia now Houston as a
younger core with upside, but thatdoesn't translate in the immediate future as a
contender in the West. And evenwith you know, the guys that are
(21:23):
available in free agency. You know, Kelly and I, Kelly Echo and
I talked about this on the Hoopsidepodcast. The names that you're hearing in
free agency for Houston range anywhere fromYes, I know that, like you
know, Kyrie Irving and Van Vleekget discussed, but that's more I would
(21:45):
say if Harden doesn't come. Ialso touched on Austin Reaves as a candidate
as well if Harden doesn't come.But if Harden comes to Houston, you're
then looking at filling out the rosterpotentially. You know what they would like
to do. What a guy likebrook Lopez, the defensive guy can stretch
the floor and shoot threes, wouldbe a shorter term contract. Dylan Brooks
(22:06):
has gotten talked about another defensive guy. You know, I don't think Middleton
goes there as of now. Iwould expect Milwaukee to try to lock him
up and keep that trio with AntenaKumpo and Drew Holliday. So you've got
a lot of other names that arealmost like all right after that point,
it's like, well, these arebackup plans and if we can't do X,
(22:30):
we do Y and Z. Sothat's kind of where I'm at there
with as much as far as howthey're gonna budget their money and whatnot.
Like, like Kelly said, ifthey come out of free agency with three
four players, that sounds like theideal scenario. Well, to do that,
you can't have hard in making closerto forty million. The math doesn't
(22:52):
add up, Yeah, because youonly have about sixty million. Yeah,
and you're not gonna get You're notgonna fill out the rest of the caps
based with good players for that it'simpossible. Yeah, I mean you do
have the room exception, But yeah, your point is well taken as far
as the difficulty of the math.And I think you have to hope that
if Harden is interested in Houston,as you were saying, it's for family
(23:12):
reasons, it's for lifestyle, thenultimately, if he wants to be there,
then maybe that makes him more likelyto take the type of friendly deal
that it takes to be friendly tothe Rockets, because again, it's not
exactly a basketball or financial decision ifthat's what would be driving him to Houston,
because he can get more certainly onthe basketball side, and honestly,
there's a greater financial incentive in Philadelphiaas well, and he has to know
(23:34):
that because the Sixers can't easily replacehim at all, as opposed to the
Rockets could do other things with theirmoney. So you have to hope that
maybe some of this. You know, the thing I pointed out on my
most recent podcast is that everyone involved, the Rockets, the Sixers, and
Harden, all of those camps havereason to do some posturing. You have
to make it seem like you're willingto walk away from the table if you're
(23:56):
truly going to get the other sideto concede some things. And so maybe
when push comes to show, Jamesis willing to relent, and some of
the pessimism now it's just you know, both the Rockets and James saying,
hey, we don't have to dothis. We do have other options and
we'll see if they can come toterms. But I agree with you in
terms of the framework, You've gotto have a reasonable amount left over,
even though there is the eight milliondollar room exception. Look, I don't
(24:18):
think you can give them a fortymillion dollar annual value and then do what
you want to do with names likebrook Lopez and Dylan Brooks. To turn
back to the draft focus a bitand the potential link to number four.
Look, we won as far asyou know. If you could hypothetically get
a guy like Zion, maybe thatincentivizes Houston a bit more to say,
yeah, we need to do whatit takes to get James because you can
make a push right now. Isthere anyone else worth monitoring? I mean,
(24:42):
it's a it's such a unique offseason, and that with the new CBA
kicking in, there's situations that maychange around the league, players that come
available that weren't under the old CBAbecause someone needs to cut costs. There's
also, you know, Washington ishaving the leadership change, and there's reports
today that Bradley Beal may be onthe market. Now, I don't think
(25:03):
he's a fit for the Rockets becausehe's twenty nine years old, and unlike
Hardened, doesn't appear likely to well, he's not a free agent, so
he couldn't give them a discount,So I just don't think that's going to
make sense. Is there any otherteam that might be worth watching when it
comes to the Rockets? Maybe,you know you mentioned in your podcast with
Kelly, you know, pairing Hardenedwith another veteran. Is there any other
situation that might be worth monitoring whenit comes to this week leading up to
(25:27):
the draft and the Rockets potentially swingingsomething. Yes, in my opinion,
I think not just for Houston,but the rest of the league has to
look at the Toronto Raptors because you'vegot Fred van Vleet's free agency, You've
got Gary Trent with an option tofigure out what he's going to do in
free agency. Obviously most people thinkhe'll probably decline it and become a free
(25:51):
agent. So then you have ScottieBonds. They've pretty much made untouchable if
they didn't try to trade this guyfor Kevin Durant. I don't see them
trying to move them this off seasoncertainly. So then where does that leave
Pascal Siakam? Where does that leavePascal Siakam? When it comes to teams
that would potentially make sense, like, for example, the Portland Trailblazers,
(26:17):
does it make sense for Houston ifyou think you're going to get hard and
where would that kind of combination putyou. It's something to think about in
ponder. But Ben, I thinkToronto is the team that you gotta keep
an eye on. You had tokeep an eye on them at the deadline.
The deadline was more about Oganna Noby. But I think there are more
(26:37):
variables now because you've either got toyou gotta make decisions if you're Toronto because
eventually you're gonna have to extend Ogeand Pascal. You're willing to do that
for the money, and you knowyou touched on Washington and you've got Bill
and Kuzum is going to be afree agent porzingish you don't know for sure
(27:00):
yet. It's an interesting dynamic,you know. I think put it this
way, I don't think the BradleyBeal stuff gets out that they'd be working
with his agent, Mark bartlestein apriority sports if there wasn't a possibility that
they were looking to potentially move him. And if you're looking to move Bradley
Beal, that would signal a rebuild, which would then signal that Kyle Kuzuma
(27:26):
could potentially be assigned in trade candidatefor teams. It would signal that,
depending on what happens with poor zingisthe same thing. If you're gonna go
a full rebuild, a lot ofDomino is still a fall. But Toronto's
first team I'm looking at. Andthen as you touched on, Washington also
equally a potential mover and a shaker, And I guess there's also some three
(27:49):
team potential scenarios like Miami was thrownout by Schaums. I believe it's a
potential suitor for Beal where well,let's say that you know they include Lowry
for the purpose of matching salary,but Lowry doesn't really make sense in a
rebuild. He might actually make sensefor the Rockets as something of a veteran
floor general, especially if it's anon hardened scenario and you're looking down the
(28:12):
list for somebody that can be aleader a facilitator, then even if it's
not directly someone from Washington, maybethere's a three team opportunity this out there
for a veteran simply because of howmuch money Boston or not Boston Washington excuse
me, would have to be takingback due to the size of Bradley Beale's
deal. Yeah, and I meanKyle would be a stop gap guy,
right And also you know, Femay, you don't goa to get a veteran
(28:36):
floor general. And I think onething, you know that these things always
matter to me. Kyle Lowry's aMark Bartlestein client as well, so something
to keep an eye on, youknow how those relationships work in those dynamics
for sure. Yeah. So revertingback a little bit to the free agency
side of things, you guys ElanKelly talked about potentially giving an offer to
(28:59):
Boston Reeves if Hartman doesn't come.You mentioned kem Johnson. Is it a
foregone conclusion that the Lakers match eventhe max offered to Reeves because and just
as a psa to the audience fora team that offers him the contract,
the deal is like every doubt andit comes out to twenty five million years.
If it's the Lakers, it's eleveneleven forty something forty something. I
(29:22):
think it's thirty six thirty six,but yeah, yeah, sure, so
something close to that. So it'sa lot of money on the back end,
even even if it's keep on onthe front end. Do you think
the Lakers just Matt whatever? Andwith Kem Johnston as him being obviously one
of the key parts of the KDtrade, will Brooklyn also Matt not anything
but up to you know, numbersthat other teams wouldn't offer. What do
you have any idea on what wouldbe necessary to kind of scare Brooklyn away
(29:47):
from matching ad Overcam. I mean, I think, first off, with
Austin Reeves and the Lakers, youknow, the scenario like getting thrown out
there is that they don't want torepeated the Alice Caruso scenario, but they
lose a guy for nothing. ButI also would say that some around the
league almost would want to see wouldthey really go that high on us the
(30:10):
Leaves. Do they believe that muchin him, because that's a significant amount
of money if you're talking, like, you know, for for a hundred
or something like that, to reallypush it as far as like he can
get. I think for the Lakers, given their cap space, you would
think that they would try to matchanything for him. But that's definitely a
(30:33):
way to call their bluff. Iwould say number one, and to get
a player that's an a phishing player. This is a guy that at one
point during the year was fifty fortyninety shooting splits and is a playmaker as
a hard nosed defender. You talkto any coach on the Lakers, they
love them, they'd love to havea roster full of guys like that.
And then when you mentioned Cam Johnson, you know, the range I've heard
(30:59):
from talking executives and I reported thison hoop site is around four years,
ninety million dollars people think that hecan get. So I don't think that's
something astronomical that Brooklyn wouldn't match.I think certainly him as part of the
Kevin Durant trade they go to apretty high number. I don't know what
the number would be that they don'tmatch him. I just almost feel like
(31:22):
in any of these scenarios, mosttimes were restricted free agent no matter what
the number is, is matched,so the team retains the asset and then
could always flip it down the line. Even years ago, Palo, you
gotta remember, like the next tryto make these high priced offer sheets to
the Wizards for Otto Porter and thePortland Trailblazers for Alan krab At the time,
(31:48):
both were matched and then ultimately wereretained his assets and you know their
value decline mind after that, butthat was the thinking. You rarely see
a team let a player that's arestricted free agent walk for nothing. So
(32:09):
the last question I've got for you, Michael, So you talked in your
Hoopside podcast with Killy Echo about twointernal guys for the Rockets with uncertain futures,
Jashon Tate and kJ Martin. Ithink Jay Shawn again, there is
a little bit of an overlap positionwise with Jabari Smith Junior and Chari Eason,
two promising first run rookies from ayear ago. And also, you
(32:30):
know we mentioned they have about sixtyone million dollars in cap room. There's
an easy way to increase that tothe upper sixties if you were to offload
Jay Shawn Tate, who's done apretty reasonable deal to a team with cap
room. So if you need abit more, then Jay Shawn strikes me
as a guy that could move.He also talked about kJ Martin, who's
got a non guaranteed salary for nextseason, and there's two ways the Rockets
(32:51):
could play it. If you declinehis salary, he becomes a restricted free
agent this summer. If you guaranteea salary, he's eligible for unrestricted free
agency in the summer of twenty twentyfour. I talked to some people with
the Rockets. I was told theywere certainly considering at one point making him
a restricted free agent, which wouldmake it probably easier to get a long
term deal because you'd be given itto him a year early, and so
you'd have a bit more leverage inyour talks. He'd also be restricted.
(33:14):
I don't think that's going to happen. I think they feel good enough about
the guys they can get in freeagency this year, and basically the fact
that they'll need that cap room thatthey're going to make him unrestricted. They're
going to make him wait until twentytwenty four so that they can have him
on that lower figure. With thatsaid, if he's on the lower figure,
inevitably that throws his long term futureinto a bit more flux because you're
(33:36):
not sure if you're going to beable to keep him, especially if he
hits unrestricted free agency a year fromnow and then he has the same position
overlap as well with guys like JabariAtari they were just talking about. So
with both Tate and kJ what doyou think their markets are? Are those
guys that potentially make sense for theRockets to move over the next week or
two in certain scenarios, I thinkI'll Starward. I think with Jay Shawn
(33:59):
Tate, he's a guy that youcan plug essentially on twenty nine other teams
in the NBA. He's a greatlocker room guy, he's a great role
player. He's efficient, and he'snot going to cause a star about his
role or minutes or anything like that. The consomm and pro and one of
the venomom leaders on Houston. That'sone of the reasons why they had extended
(34:22):
him. I think the extension hehad was good for him at the time.
It gave him a lot more moneyin a shorter time, but also
made him an even more attractive tradepiece if you're going to move him.
I certainly think contenders would value JayShon tad In particularly, And when you
look at kJ Martin, my thoughtis somewhat similar to you Ben in the
(34:46):
sense that if you are going toget three or four free agents, you
need the cap space. Now.Yes, does it open up that kJ
would become unrestricted the following year,Yes, However you still would have bird
rights number one, offer him alot of money, which again he's not
gonna get a max. Let's let'snot get crazy. But at the same
time, you can still retain him, go over the cap and things of
(35:08):
that nature. Number one number twowith kJ, you could always then do
a sign and trade a year fromnow if you feel, as you pointed
out, that there is a bitof a log jam. So to me,
there's ways around that, and Ijust think that that's not the priority
(35:30):
at the moment. Yeah, Soto you, it sounds like Tate is
more reasonable to move this offseason thankJ. From a Rockets prospective, Well,
that's that's a good question. Iwould think the logistics of moving Tate
would be easier because he's already undercontract. You know, you were gonna
move kJ they didn't have to bea sign and trade, and they need
(35:51):
to be more dominos to fall,So logistically, I'll go with J J
Shan Tate. And I do thinkJay Shawn is going to have more value
broaderly across the league given his contract, given the type of player he is
and his and his role right now. And there's a greater incentive for Houston
(36:13):
to move him too because they couldclear that cap figure. Yeah, it's
a higher number than Cage at theat present, Yes, you know,
and the other thing. And I'mnot I don't really want to go down
a rabbit hole here, but youknow, you gotta also see you never
know what they could do. KevinPorter Junior's contract is uniquely structured as well.
So yeah, let's put it thisway, Houston has plenty of ways
(36:37):
to find them money and even moreof it for sure. That's a good
place to leave it, folks.He is Michael Scotto, national NBA writer
for Hoops Hype. You can followhim on Twitter at Mike A. Scotto.
As for myself and Pollo follow meon there at Ben Dubo's Polo at
Polo ALVE's NBA, and the showthe logger Line Simply at the logger Line.
If you go there, you canhit up our link tree and you
(36:58):
can find content from all of ourfriends, sponsors and partners as well.
Shout out as always to Clutch tothe logger of Carback Brewing. With that,
we'll put a bow on this episodefor Mike and Paolo. I'm Ben,
Thanks for always for listening, andplease get back soon for another new
episode of the logger Line.
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome toThe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
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It's proudly served to you by CarboxClutch City lagger It is good. Oh
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lagger Line starts now. Welcome onboard. Welcome in to a special interview episode
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(00:48):
friend out of Portugal, Palo Alves. In addition to Carbok. I should
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Talks seven ninety, official flagship radiostation of your Houston Rockets. If you
check out our Loggerline archives, whichyou can easily do at your listening writer
of choice or by going to thelink tree that's in our Twitter bio at
(01:10):
the Loggerline, I urge you totake a listen if you haven't already,
that is, to our recent episodes, including our just release twenty twenty three
free agency preview. That's where bothPaulo and I spoke at considerable length with
our tidbits, analysis, opinions,you name it, about what may happen
in this pivotal offseason ahead for yourHouston Rockets. So again, if you
(01:32):
want our takes, there's plenty ofthose and the very recent archives. This
episode is going to be a bitdifferent because we've got a special guest here
for an exclusive interview, and wewant this to be about his information and
insight. It's Michael Scotto, nationalNBA writer for Hoops Hype, which is
also a part of the USA Todaysports media group. Michael, thanks for
joining us, and I'll start youwith the most prominent question. The NBA
(01:56):
Draft is just one week away onThursday, June twenty second, what's the
latest you're hearing about the Rockets andwhat they may do at pick number four
in the first round. Well,first of all, my pleasure on joining
you. I would say that rightnow, for Houston, the name that
comes up the most is Amen Thompson, and if they stay at that,
if they stay at their slot rightnow, but they're certainly open to listening
(02:21):
to offers and are gauging the valueof the pick as well for potential win
now players. I think certainly,you know, for Houston, there's been
a lot of speculation about, youknow, whether they can get at James
Harden and other free agents that I'msure we're going to talk about, but
it really starts with this draft pickand for the off season at least,
(02:45):
and you know, the general consensusis that Amen Thompson will be the pick
if they keep it. If not, can they find a player that is
a win now guy that makes sensefor them, that would fit into that
cap space and not necessarily mess upsome potential plans that they have to use
(03:06):
it going forward. Certainly, ifthey are able to land James Harden,
he's going to take up a fairchunk of that money. And then you
know, they've been linked to otherplayers as well that are starting caliber guys.
So I think therein lies a littlebit of the issue. And of
course, you can always draft someonewith the fourth pick, take the best
player available overall, and then flipthe pick down the line, whether it's
(03:30):
you know, on draft night orafter him free agency. So that's that's
the latest right now. They don'thave a specific player that they're eyeing necessarily
with that pick as of now.But if you know one thing about rafel
Stone, he's he's open to hearingand talking about anything, and certainly teams
have cold to inquire on that fourthpick. Yeah. The way it was
(03:53):
described to me when I checked ina few days ago was that the Rockets
wouldn't make a decision based on JamesHarden with the number four pick. In
other words, they view that assetwhen you're talking about someone like Amen Thompson
who's just twenty years old, orkmWhitmore who's just eighteen, if he enters
into the mix, Look, you'retalking about someone that could be a fixture
(04:15):
in your rotation for a generation.And James Harden turns thirty four this summer.
So they're insistent that the pursuit ofHarden is not correlated with who they
would select at that spot. However, there is a world in which if
you find the right guy to tradenumber four four, then to your point,
(04:36):
Michael, they would be more likelyto sign James Harden. In other
words, if you're able to tradepick four for a win now piece,
then all of a sudden it mightmake more sense for them to go the
extra mile to bring in James Hardenin a way that might not if they're
taking another young guy. And itlooks like the timeline as far as when
they can compete for the playoffs andeventually beyond, is pushed back a couple
(04:59):
more years. So it's not somuch that Harden would drive the decision.
It's actually the decision that would driveHarden. The question is who that player
might be. Now the last coupleof days, everyone's been talking about the
Zion Williamson hypothetical. Sham's had earlierin the week that Zion to one of
the teams with the second or thirdoverall pick might be doable. With the
(05:20):
Pelicans eyeing Scoot Henderson. Rafael Barlow, who does locked on NBA Big Board,
mentioned that he had heard Zion asa potential target for the Rockets involving
their four pick. Now, I'massuming the Rockets would have to pay more
of a premium than Charlotte at twoor Portland at three, simply because the
prospect at four likely. I'm andThompson not quite in the same tier,
(05:41):
at least in the eyes of thePelicans as Scoot Henderson. But I have
a really tough time gauging Zion's value. Clearly, when he plays, he's
generational, and now he's locked upfor a five year deal and if he's
right again, absolute superstar. Yethe's also a guy who has had issues
with conditioning, and just in termsof overall durability, he's played in thirty
(06:03):
games or less in three of hisfour seasons. I know you haven't reported
on anything Zion related in terms ofconcrete rumors. I'm just curious your perspective.
Michael is someone that covers the league. What do you think his value
is? Can New Orleans still getvalue close to what it would be if
he was healthy, or are theypotentially forced or willing to take something of
(06:25):
a discount based on the concerns thatthe company, I suppose his medicals.
My perspective on that is that ifyou're first of all, if you're going
to trade Zion and you're in NewOrleans, you're not trying to move him
for necessarily a discount because that youngcore it's still got a chance, it
still has a chance to be reallygood for a long time. Looking ahead
(06:48):
with him in brandon Ingram, Iknow they have CJ. McCollum there,
but ultimately, and he's a littlebit older, but ultimately, you know,
if you were taking a quote unquotediscount, I don't know, maybe
it'd be like ninety percent of hisvalue. Like he's still young, He's
(07:08):
got to get his conditioning right.I think the biggest question is you know
with him, like you said,the help for him, but I don't.
I'll say this, if he wentto an organization like Portland, just
given their injury history in the year'spast with Grego and Brandon Roy oh Man,
I would be crossing my fingers onthat one. Yeah, I'd be
(07:28):
nervous ifive with him. But itsounds like it sounds like from your perspective
that if Houston was to try andmake a bid for him, that it
would take a lot more than justthe four pick. You'd have to do
the four pick and likely some sortof future assset or maybe a member of
your existing young corps. If hestill lives at ninety percent of his value,
then it's likely four plus a prettygood asset on top of that.
(07:49):
Yeah, because most of the league, now you know Houston, I'll tell
you that they don't view I'm inThompson, is that big of a gap
from the other guys, But ultimatelythe rest of the league use this pretty
highly as a three player draft.At the top, like one, Ban
Yama is his own tier, andthen scooton Miller are another tier, and
(08:09):
then after that there's a third tierif you talk to most people. So
with that said, you know,I think that they would have to get
Yeah, they don't have to getmore, but depending on the team,
I don't know what their appetite wouldbe for a guy like you know,
they have a lot of young players, you know, Alpa and Shangoon.
I don't I don't see Houston tryingto move necessarily unless it's something incredibly blockbuster
(08:33):
worthy like Jalen Green or Jabari Smithgiven out high they were drafted. You
know, maybe, you know,if you're getting like a big like Zion,
do you maybe feel better about partingwith a Shangoon and and things along
those lines, you know, becauseeven Zion players essentially power forward even though
(08:54):
they be positionless. There's different waysto look at it. I just think
that ultimately, if you're in NewOrleans, I think it's at least you
know, like John's kind of likehinted at it that it's maybe more possible
than in years past. But Ithink in years past it was an absolute
no. At least now you maybethink about it, and I think that's
(09:16):
a relative point. It needs tobe stated here. I think that makes
a lot of sense. We've we'vebeen hearing throughout, you know, the
off season thus far that the Rocketsare open to treating Pick four. We
heard it last year, we heardthe year before, nobody really bought it.
This is really the first year ofpeople are starting to buy it because
of the kinte in direction. Whenit comes to the reveal, you talked
(09:37):
about treating the pick for effect,I want to address a different angle.
You reported July eighth that wait,yeah, and ad sorry that Orlando was
interested in moving six plus eleven tomove up into the three to five range.
And I'm expecting that the three rangeand the fourth to five ranges are
(09:58):
two different things. But you seefrom the Rockets perspective them doing a move
like that, or if they're movingoff a floor, it's it's it's for
effect or more someone more experienced.I don't think right now there's an there's
I don't think there's an appetite forthat right now, just to go from
four to six and eleven, Ithink that there would have to be you
(10:18):
know, if Orlando was maybe lookingapart with one of their younger players,
then maybe it's a different conversation.But just the draft pick straight up,
I'm not sure that that's enough forthe Rockets to do. They've already got
enough young pieces, you know whatI'm saying. They that's why they're looking
to add a lot of veterans andfree agency and try to improve as a
(10:39):
win now team going into next yearor to well, when I say win
now, I mean to make aleap. You know, they're not going
to necessarily be a title team nextyear, but to be a playoff team
and move forward in that direction.Yeah, I guess one of the interesting
things when you look at Orlando's roster, they're are some young pieces. I
(11:01):
know a couple of years ago itwas reported that the Rockets like Jalen Suggs.
Now, he's still young, buthe's a bit more advanced than the
rookie he's going into year three.Is that the kind of scenario that might
tempt the Rockets if it's maybe sixplus a young player as opposed to six
plus eleven something along those lines.I would imagine it would have to be
a young player, but I thinkit'd have to be more than Jalen Suggs
(11:22):
respective Respectfully, I don't I don'tthink he would be the guy that moves
the needle. You know, ifwhen I look at Orlando and you know,
you look at their core, Powell'snot going anywhere. I doubt Franz
Wagner's going anywhere right now. Whendel carters on an incredible contract and he's
a very productive player, I don'tthink they'd be looking to move him unless
(11:45):
it was a blockbuster move. Idon't know if the fourth pick at that
point is to do that. Ithink it would be more for more Lando's
perspective to get into that top three. You know, if you can get
a guy like Scoot Henderson and hefalls to three, it opens up a
Pandora's box of trade scenarios for theBlazers, who I think, if they
(12:07):
want to keep Damian Lillard happy orhappier, I should say they're gonna get
a guy that's a win now player. And I think that really is where
a lot of dominos could fall.Because if you're Charlotte, sure they're going
to listen to a bunch of things. But if you're Charlotte, you've got
LaMelo, you could You've got LaMeloand Mark Williams. Is essentially you're building
(12:28):
blocks going forward. Right now,You've got a big and you've got a
point guard. Do you go withBrandon Miller and put them at the three?
Can Scoot Henderson and LaMelo co exists? That's that's the question you've got
to ask yourself. If you're Charlotte, obviously Miller would be an easier fit
of the two. But you getrisky at that point when you start going
(12:50):
fit over talent. And I thinkthere are more people in the league that
would say that's Scoot Henderson would bethe number two prospect. And the reason
I'll say that real quick is because, and this gets brought up to me
a decent amount by executives. IfScoot Henderson and Victor weman Yama had that
duel that they did for the twoexhibition games at the end of the year
(13:11):
instead of the beginning of the year, this isn't even a conversation. This
isn't even a conversation. It wouldbe Scoot Henderson. So you know,
Brandon Miller and the tournament was hurtwas dealing with the criminal case and you
know, didn't have a good showingin the tournament. So it's interesting to
(13:31):
me that, you know, Millerkind of leap frog Scoot there. I
think that was again just more fitthan anything and logistics from people trying to
make a determination on that. Sothe other thing is Charlotte could take Scoot
and then hold them and try toflip them for something better because they think
that why not. I think everything'sgot to be on the table, and
(13:54):
we saw last year with Orlando theywaited till the very end and kept the
cars close to their best. Theonly thing you know right now going into
the draft is that victim one Minyama'sgoing on to the San Antonio Spurs after
that. I still don't think thingsare determined going forward as nearly as simplistically
as as people would like. Youknow, absolutely agree with you as far
(14:18):
as and what you've heard from exactlyas far as how good Scoot is,
you know, I think it's sortof following caro esque from last year that
he's following to three and in somany scenarios, my question would be,
and I can't keep myself from fromfrom asking this, even at a personal
level, do you see any waythat the Rockets could be the team that's
(14:39):
moving up to to go and getScoot good? Could the fact that they
say, oh, we don't havethem many different tiers be somewhat posturing that
in a scenario where they do Itry to trade up, they want to,
you know, kind of look likethey don't want it that much.
So if they don't look desperate,I think, And if so, what
do you think the price would belike to to move up? If from
four to three or two together thatI scoot. You know, when Kelly
(15:03):
Eko came on the Hoopside podcast andhe said that they viewed Am and Thompson
closer in that tier with Brandon Millerand Scoot Henderson more so than people elsewhere
outside the league believe it to be. I took that as posturing, because
(15:24):
if the majority of the league viewsit to be a different tier, that's
the consensus ultimately, so I thoughtit was posturing out. I think Houston
has the if you just look froman asset perspective, do they have enough
assets to theoretically tempt Charlotte or Portlandto move up. I think more so
(15:48):
Charlotte than Portland because Portland would belooking for more of a win now player,
and Houston's roster is loaded with youngerguys with upside looking ahead. So
I would think it would be abetter opportunity with Charlotte, and Houston has
a bunch of picks looking ahead.So those Brooklyn assets could be intriguing.
(16:10):
Yeah, but the one thing aboutthe Nets is they're not just going to
tank. True. You know,I not to say that they're not good
asks, but if there's one thingwe've learned about the Nets from the Sean
Marks ever, even dating back towhen he first got there in Brooklyn,
well before Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irvingcame and eventually James Harden, they never
(16:30):
tanked. They put the you know, they weren't good in the beginning,
but they never tanked. So andthey have no incentive to do so.
So what Michail Bridges, who Ithink is an all star caliber guy next
year if he plays the way hedid after coming over from the Nets,
(16:51):
you know, and they have assetstoo where they're going to look to try
to improve this team going forward.But to answer Powell's question, I think
you're Houston and you're trying to moveup to get Scoot Henderson. I think
you've got to target Charlotte more becauseI think that their assets fit with Charlotte's
timeline more and could intrigue them morethan Portland, who's looking to win now
(17:17):
more so with Damian Lillard as theirfranchise piece. I want to switch gears
to free agency. But again,in the case of the Rockets, as
you laid out earlier, Mike,they're very much connected because what the Rockets
do in the draft may impact justhow viable they are as a James Hardens
suitor. And this is coming tofocus a lot more in recent days.
(17:40):
We were talking offline a few daysago and both of us thought that while
certainly possible, the Hardened return wasnot nearly as inevitable as some of the
media reports had made it seem likeit would be. Now this week,
you're starting to hear more and morethat, yeah, this is not a
done deal, and stehen A.Smith went out of his way to say
(18:02):
on ESPN's first Sake that he doesn'tthink it's happening that the Rockets are offering
the max at most two years certainlynot a four year and anything close to
the max. And you're hearing abit more rumblings about a potential return in
Philadelphia. We know Kelly Echo reportedon your podcast, Mike that Nick Nurse
had visited Harden a week or soago. So again, while certainly not
(18:25):
impossible, it's not nearly as inevitableas some of the narratives since Christmas had
made it seem. And the draftis such a key variable here, as
we were laying out earlier, becauseif the Rockets are able to get a
veteran piece, then that might makethem more willing to say, hey,
we should invest a bit more inJames Harden, something that would take to
(18:45):
close the deal because we can actuallymake the playoffs next year or a play
in push. So that's how thosetwo are connected, as opposed to,
you know, if you draft AmanThompson, who's something of a project,
then it's not as if you wantto push all your chips in for James
when you're looking at maybe winning thirtyfive ish games, even if you do
(19:06):
bring him in. So all thesethings are connected. So I guess with
that in mind, how much ifthe Rockets aren't able to swing a big
deal and they end up with anAman Thompson type or even if they're able
to get Scoot Henderson either by tradingup or he falls, how much do
you think they would willing to investin terms of years or money? And
(19:30):
is it potentially enough to offset aPhiladelphia team that clearly needs him a lot
more in the here and now.You know, this was an interesting topic
of conversation that Kelly and I hadon the Hoops Type podcast, and we
both agreed that the Houston doesn't wantto give hard in a max contract.
Now in that aspect, you're talkingforty five million dollars or more. I
(19:56):
think for Houston, you know,he's shown an ability to be closer to
the or thirties. Now, ifyou're Houston, do you have to go
more than that? Do you haveto go to like thirty five million to
maybe nudget a little bit more?What's Philadelphia offering? We don't know that
yet. I would just say thattheoretically and logically speaking, Philadelphia would be
(20:18):
more in that ballpark where his previousoffer was. So I don't know if
a few million dollars, you know, extra would make the difference. And
I don't know if it behooves Houstonto go that much higher than that with
all that cap space, because thenhe's taken a huge chunk of it as
opposed to maybe, you know,closer to half, and then you're divvying
(20:41):
it up. I think if JamesHarding goes back to Houston, theoretically it's
more about other dynamics, family dynamics, wanting to be home, the lifestyle
and whatnot. Because clearly, onpaper, you have a chance to play
(21:02):
with the MVP, the reigning MVPand Joe lmbiad and a top four team
on paper in the East and tryto compete in Philadelphia now Houston as a
younger core with upside, but thatdoesn't translate in the immediate future as a
contender in the West. And evenwith you know, the guys that are
(21:23):
available in free agency. You know, Kelly and I, Kelly Echo and
I talked about this on the Hoopsidepodcast. The names that you're hearing in
free agency for Houston range anywhere fromYes, I know that, like you
know, Kyrie Irving and Van Vleekget discussed, but that's more I would
(21:45):
say if Harden doesn't come. Ialso touched on Austin Reaves as a candidate
as well if Harden doesn't come.But if Harden comes to Houston, you're
then looking at filling out the rosterpotentially. You know what they would like
to do. What a guy likebrook Lopez, the defensive guy can stretch
the floor and shoot threes, wouldbe a shorter term contract. Dylan Brooks
(22:06):
has gotten talked about another defensive guy. You know, I don't think Middleton
goes there as of now. Iwould expect Milwaukee to try to lock him
up and keep that trio with AntenaKumpo and Drew Holliday. So you've got
a lot of other names that arealmost like all right after that point,
it's like, well, these arebackup plans and if we can't do X,
(22:30):
we do Y and Z. Sothat's kind of where I'm at there
with as much as far as howthey're gonna budget their money and whatnot.
Like, like Kelly said, ifthey come out of free agency with three
four players, that sounds like theideal scenario. Well, to do that,
you can't have hard in making closerto forty million. The math doesn't
(22:52):
add up, Yeah, because youonly have about sixty million. Yeah,
and you're not gonna get You're notgonna fill out the rest of the caps
based with good players for that it'simpossible. Yeah, I mean you do
have the room exception, But yeah, your point is well taken as far
as the difficulty of the math.And I think you have to hope that
if Harden is interested in Houston,as you were saying, it's for family
(23:12):
reasons, it's for lifestyle, thenultimately, if he wants to be there,
then maybe that makes him more likelyto take the type of friendly deal
that it takes to be friendly tothe Rockets, because again, it's not
exactly a basketball or financial decision ifthat's what would be driving him to Houston,
because he can get more certainly onthe basketball side, and honestly,
there's a greater financial incentive in Philadelphiaas well, and he has to know
(23:34):
that because the Sixers can't easily replacehim at all, as opposed to the
Rockets could do other things with theirmoney. So you have to hope that
maybe some of this. You know, the thing I pointed out on my
most recent podcast is that everyone involved, the Rockets, the Sixers, and
Harden, all of those camps havereason to do some posturing. You have
to make it seem like you're willingto walk away from the table if you're
(23:56):
truly going to get the other sideto concede some things. And so maybe
when push comes to show, Jamesis willing to relent, and some of
the pessimism now it's just you know, both the Rockets and James saying,
hey, we don't have to dothis. We do have other options and
we'll see if they can come toterms. But I agree with you in
terms of the framework, You've gotto have a reasonable amount left over,
even though there is the eight milliondollar room exception. Look, I don't
(24:18):
think you can give them a fortymillion dollar annual value and then do what
you want to do with names likebrook Lopez and Dylan Brooks. To turn
back to the draft focus a bitand the potential link to number four.
Look, we won as far asyou know. If you could hypothetically get
a guy like Zion, maybe thatincentivizes Houston a bit more to say,
yeah, we need to do whatit takes to get James because you can
make a push right now. Isthere anyone else worth monitoring? I mean,
(24:42):
it's a it's such a unique offseason, and that with the new CBA
kicking in, there's situations that maychange around the league, players that come
available that weren't under the old CBAbecause someone needs to cut costs. There's
also, you know, Washington ishaving the leadership change, and there's reports
today that Bradley Beal may be onthe market. Now, I don't think
(25:03):
he's a fit for the Rockets becausehe's twenty nine years old, and unlike
Hardened, doesn't appear likely to well, he's not a free agent, so
he couldn't give them a discount,So I just don't think that's going to
make sense. Is there any otherteam that might be worth watching when it
comes to the Rockets? Maybe,you know you mentioned in your podcast with
Kelly, you know, pairing Hardenedwith another veteran. Is there any other
situation that might be worth monitoring whenit comes to this week leading up to
(25:27):
the draft and the Rockets potentially swingingsomething. Yes, in my opinion,
I think not just for Houston,but the rest of the league has to
look at the Toronto Raptors because you'vegot Fred van Vleet's free agency, You've
got Gary Trent with an option tofigure out what he's going to do in
free agency. Obviously most people thinkhe'll probably decline it and become a free
(25:51):
agent. So then you have ScottieBonds. They've pretty much made untouchable if
they didn't try to trade this guyfor Kevin Durant. I don't see them
trying to move them this off seasoncertainly. So then where does that leave
Pascal Siakam? Where does that leavePascal Siakam? When it comes to teams
that would potentially make sense, like, for example, the Portland Trailblazers,
(26:17):
does it make sense for Houston ifyou think you're going to get hard and
where would that kind of combination putyou. It's something to think about in
ponder. But Ben, I thinkToronto is the team that you gotta keep
an eye on. You had tokeep an eye on them at the deadline.
The deadline was more about Oganna Noby. But I think there are more
(26:37):
variables now because you've either got toyou gotta make decisions if you're Toronto because
eventually you're gonna have to extend Ogeand Pascal. You're willing to do that
for the money, and you knowyou touched on Washington and you've got Bill
and Kuzum is going to be afree agent porzingish you don't know for sure
(27:00):
yet. It's an interesting dynamic,you know. I think put it this
way, I don't think the BradleyBeal stuff gets out that they'd be working
with his agent, Mark bartlestein apriority sports if there wasn't a possibility that
they were looking to potentially move him. And if you're looking to move Bradley
Beal, that would signal a rebuild, which would then signal that Kyle Kuzuma
(27:26):
could potentially be assigned in trade candidatefor teams. It would signal that,
depending on what happens with poor zingisthe same thing. If you're gonna go
a full rebuild, a lot ofDomino is still a fall. But Toronto's
first team I'm looking at. Andthen as you touched on, Washington also
equally a potential mover and a shaker, And I guess there's also some three
(27:49):
team potential scenarios like Miami was thrownout by Schaums. I believe it's a
potential suitor for Beal where well,let's say that you know they include Lowry
for the purpose of matching salary,but Lowry doesn't really make sense in a
rebuild. He might actually make sensefor the Rockets as something of a veteran
floor general, especially if it's anon hardened scenario and you're looking down the
(28:12):
list for somebody that can be aleader a facilitator, then even if it's
not directly someone from Washington, maybethere's a three team opportunity this out there
for a veteran simply because of howmuch money Boston or not Boston Washington excuse
me, would have to be takingback due to the size of Bradley Beale's
deal. Yeah, and I meanKyle would be a stop gap guy,
right And also you know, Femay, you don't goa to get a veteran
(28:36):
floor general. And I think onething, you know that these things always
matter to me. Kyle Lowry's aMark Bartlestein client as well, so something
to keep an eye on, youknow how those relationships work in those dynamics
for sure. Yeah. So revertingback a little bit to the free agency
side of things, you guys ElanKelly talked about potentially giving an offer to
(28:59):
Boston Reeves if Hartman doesn't come.You mentioned kem Johnson. Is it a
foregone conclusion that the Lakers match eventhe max offered to Reeves because and just
as a psa to the audience fora team that offers him the contract,
the deal is like every doubt andit comes out to twenty five million years.
If it's the Lakers, it's eleveneleven forty something forty something. I
(29:22):
think it's thirty six thirty six,but yeah, yeah, sure, so
something close to that. So it'sa lot of money on the back end,
even even if it's keep on onthe front end. Do you think
the Lakers just Matt whatever? Andwith Kem Johnston as him being obviously one
of the key parts of the KDtrade, will Brooklyn also Matt not anything
but up to you know, numbersthat other teams wouldn't offer. What do
you have any idea on what wouldbe necessary to kind of scare Brooklyn away
(29:47):
from matching ad Overcam. I mean, I think, first off, with
Austin Reeves and the Lakers, youknow, the scenario like getting thrown out
there is that they don't want torepeated the Alice Caruso scenario, but they
lose a guy for nothing. ButI also would say that some around the
league almost would want to see wouldthey really go that high on us the
(30:10):
Leaves. Do they believe that muchin him, because that's a significant amount
of money if you're talking, like, you know, for for a hundred
or something like that, to reallypush it as far as like he can
get. I think for the Lakers, given their cap space, you would
think that they would try to matchanything for him. But that's definitely a
(30:33):
way to call their bluff. Iwould say number one, and to get
a player that's an a phishing player. This is a guy that at one
point during the year was fifty fortyninety shooting splits and is a playmaker as
a hard nosed defender. You talkto any coach on the Lakers, they
love them, they'd love to havea roster full of guys like that.
And then when you mentioned Cam Johnson, you know, the range I've heard
(30:59):
from talking executives and I reported thison hoop site is around four years,
ninety million dollars people think that hecan get. So I don't think that's
something astronomical that Brooklyn wouldn't match.I think certainly him as part of the
Kevin Durant trade they go to apretty high number. I don't know what
the number would be that they don'tmatch him. I just almost feel like
(31:22):
in any of these scenarios, mosttimes were restricted free agent no matter what
the number is, is matched,so the team retains the asset and then
could always flip it down the line. Even years ago, Palo, you
gotta remember, like the next tryto make these high priced offer sheets to
the Wizards for Otto Porter and thePortland Trailblazers for Alan krab At the time,
(31:48):
both were matched and then ultimately wereretained his assets and you know their
value decline mind after that, butthat was the thinking. You rarely see
a team let a player that's arestricted free agent walk for nothing. So
(32:09):
the last question I've got for you, Michael, So you talked in your
Hoopside podcast with Killy Echo about twointernal guys for the Rockets with uncertain futures,
Jashon Tate and kJ Martin. Ithink Jay Shawn again, there is
a little bit of an overlap positionwise with Jabari Smith Junior and Chari Eason,
two promising first run rookies from ayear ago. And also, you
(32:30):
know we mentioned they have about sixtyone million dollars in cap room. There's
an easy way to increase that tothe upper sixties if you were to offload
Jay Shawn Tate, who's done apretty reasonable deal to a team with cap
room. So if you need abit more, then Jay Shawn strikes me
as a guy that could move.He also talked about kJ Martin, who's
got a non guaranteed salary for nextseason, and there's two ways the Rockets
(32:51):
could play it. If you declinehis salary, he becomes a restricted free
agent this summer. If you guaranteea salary, he's eligible for unrestricted free
agency in the summer of twenty twentyfour. I talked to some people with
the Rockets. I was told theywere certainly considering at one point making him
a restricted free agent, which wouldmake it probably easier to get a long
term deal because you'd be given itto him a year early, and so
you'd have a bit more leverage inyour talks. He'd also be restricted.
(33:14):
I don't think that's going to happen. I think they feel good enough about
the guys they can get in freeagency this year, and basically the fact
that they'll need that cap room thatthey're going to make him unrestricted. They're
going to make him wait until twentytwenty four so that they can have him
on that lower figure. With thatsaid, if he's on the lower figure,
inevitably that throws his long term futureinto a bit more flux because you're
(33:36):
not sure if you're going to beable to keep him, especially if he
hits unrestricted free agency a year fromnow and then he has the same position
overlap as well with guys like JabariAtari they were just talking about. So
with both Tate and kJ what doyou think their markets are? Are those
guys that potentially make sense for theRockets to move over the next week or
two in certain scenarios, I thinkI'll Starward. I think with Jay Shawn
(33:59):
Tate, he's a guy that youcan plug essentially on twenty nine other teams
in the NBA. He's a greatlocker room guy, he's a great role
player. He's efficient, and he'snot going to cause a star about his
role or minutes or anything like that. The consomm and pro and one of
the venomom leaders on Houston. That'sone of the reasons why they had extended
(34:22):
him. I think the extension hehad was good for him at the time.
It gave him a lot more moneyin a shorter time, but also
made him an even more attractive tradepiece if you're going to move him.
I certainly think contenders would value JayShon tad In particularly, And when you
look at kJ Martin, my thoughtis somewhat similar to you Ben in the
(34:46):
sense that if you are going toget three or four free agents, you
need the cap space. Now.Yes, does it open up that kJ
would become unrestricted the following year,Yes, However you still would have bird
rights number one, offer him alot of money, which again he's not
gonna get a max. Let's let'snot get crazy. But at the same
time, you can still retain him, go over the cap and things of
(35:08):
that nature. Number one number twowith kJ, you could always then do
a sign and trade a year fromnow if you feel, as you pointed
out, that there is a bitof a log jam. So to me,
there's ways around that, and Ijust think that that's not the priority
(35:30):
at the moment. Yeah, Soto you, it sounds like Tate is
more reasonable to move this offseason thankJ. From a Rockets prospective, Well,
that's that's a good question. Iwould think the logistics of moving Tate
would be easier because he's already undercontract. You know, you were gonna
move kJ they didn't have to bea sign and trade, and they need
(35:51):
to be more dominos to fall,So logistically, I'll go with J J
Shan Tate. And I do thinkJay Shawn is going to have more value
broaderly across the league given his contract, given the type of player he is
and his and his role right now. And there's a greater incentive for Houston
(36:13):
to move him too because they couldclear that cap figure. Yeah, it's
a higher number than Cage at theat present, Yes, you know,
and the other thing. And I'mnot I don't really want to go down
a rabbit hole here, but youknow, you gotta also see you never
know what they could do. KevinPorter Junior's contract is uniquely structured as well.
So yeah, let's put it thisway, Houston has plenty of ways
(36:37):
to find them money and even moreof it for sure. That's a good
place to leave it, folks.He is Michael Scotto, national NBA writer
for Hoops Hype. You can followhim on Twitter at Mike A. Scotto.
As for myself and Pollo follow meon there at Ben Dubo's Polo at
Polo ALVE's NBA, and the showthe logger Line Simply at the logger Line.
If you go there, you canhit up our link tree and you
(36:58):
can find content from all of ourfriends, sponsors and partners as well.
Shout out as always to Clutch tothe logger of Carback Brewing. With that,
we'll put a bow on this episodefor Mike and Paolo. I'm Ben,
Thanks for always for listening, andplease get back soon for another new
episode of the logger Line.
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