In this episode, we tackle two deeply connected topics: the state of healthcare in the United States and the emotional toll it can take on individuals navigating the system. From the complexities of accessing care to the financial and emotional burdens faced by millions, we explore the ways healthcare impacts mental health. We also dive into strategies for dealing with negative emotions, whether they stem from personal struggles, systemic challenges, or daily stressors.
Whether you're a patient, caregiver, or someone seeking emotional balance in tough times, this episode offers insights and support.
www.mentalwealthpod.com
www.pedalmyway.com
DISCLAIMER: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker’s own and do not constitute legal, medical, or other forms of professional advice. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only. The "Mental Wealth Podcast" and "Pedal My Way" names and all forms and abbreviations are the property of its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
Whether you're a patient, caregiver, or someone seeking emotional balance in tough times, this episode offers insights and support.
www.mentalwealthpod.com
www.pedalmyway.com
DISCLAIMER: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker’s own and do not constitute legal, medical, or other forms of professional advice. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only. The "Mental Wealth Podcast" and "Pedal My Way" names and all forms and abbreviations are the property of its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Mental Wealth Podcast.
I am Rob and here with me is McCann. How
are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 4 (00:11):
I love how I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Excellent, man, excellent. It's twenty twenty five. How did that
help to you? It is so great to be speaking
with you again. I'm excited for the year ahead for
ped On My Way and for the Mental Wealth Podcast.
I think we've got a lot of good guests coming up,
but today it's going to be you and me. We
were just actually having a good discussion about the healthcare
(00:36):
systems in general. You had a few questions for me
about CAREDA, and I had several questions mostly about logic
and common sense to you about the American healthcare system,
and so I thought I could off today by sort
of talking about that a little bit. I know it's
been in the news with the killing of Brian Thompson,
the healthcare CEO of from United Healthcare. What do you
(00:57):
think is the major difference that you're seeing right now
in your healthcare that you wouldn't necessarily see in the States,
that I would see in Canada. What do you think
the major difference is from an American perspective, because I
know you had some confusion about how it works in Canada.
How do I get paid? How sorry, how do doctors
get paid? What is the major confusion that people from
(01:18):
the States have about the Canadian system and how it works.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My insurance is tied through my work. For most of
the folks, it's tied to your work. It was a
policy implemented in the sixties seventies. I think in Canada
does not you have a national health system? And I
believe you mentioned you have a health card that is
different from province to province, but overall the plan is
almost the same throughout so here. If something goes wrong,
for example, I go to the doctor, I have what
(01:43):
is called its a cope. I paid the ten fifteen
dollars twenty dollars for that consultation. The doctor gives me whatever,
a prescription for antibiotics or something, and then the doctor
has a rate agreed with the insurance company on how
much the doctor gets paid for that consultation. For example,
I do not have insurance. If I pay out of
(02:03):
pocket my consultation for you for the antibiotics, you might
cost two hundred dollars out of pocket. I have to
pay the doctor. But to get that lower rate, I
pay a monthly premium to the health insurance company through
my work. A younger individual else is much healthier than
older individuals, so the insurance company makes money from the
(02:25):
young people to pay the old people. Right. The older
you are, the more prone you are to get fall,
sick ailments, serious health issues. So the insurance is able
to officert that cost from young people with not that
many hospital wizards, right, running a cost on an ancients company.
So that is how I'm just generalizing it. I'm sure
there's a lot more complicated situations, a lot more rules
(02:49):
and regulations in place, but this is how it generally works.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
But at least.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
From the US perceptive of Canadian system is that it's
tied into the tax you pay. Because of that, your
tax goes up and the healthcare you get is below
the quality of care we get in the US. Again,
it's just an assumption. I've not lived in a in Canada,
so I do not know. I've not experienced this, So
that's what I wanted your input. And also I just
(03:15):
a matter of me making an appointment with my doctor.
It can come as soon as the next day or
in a couple of days. For at least your primary
care physician specialists take a little longer because you know
there's a backup. So this is how it generally works
in the US. So how does it compare to how
Canada work?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, it's interesting, just like that's why I'm asking you
from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's so interesting to hear.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And you see this on the on the news a
lot of the time too, you'll see it sort of
there's sort of a cartoon version of how Canadian healthcare
system works. Right, It's like you go to the you
have to you have to wait six months to because
you've got a headache. Right, But basically what happens is
like like you said, you're right, we have a healthcare
health card.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
You go to the emergency room.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
If you have an emergency, you get prioritized based on
how serious your illness or injury is. So obviously, if
you if you have a more serious if you've had
a stroke or something like that, you'll you'll go in
quicker than someone that's maybe got a nasty cut. So
you're prioritize based on the seriousness of your injury. You
go in, you show your health card, to the admitting team,
(04:22):
then you see your doctor. At no point, really is
there any discussion about finances unless you know you can
pay for extras, like you can pay for a private
room at the hospital if you want to. I think
it's like fifty Like where we are, it's like fifty
or one hundred dollars for a private room.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's not a huge amount, but it's it's like almost
like a budget hotel kind of price if you want
to pay for a private room. There are so there
are additions to that, but basically you get it's it's
based on necessity. If you need something, you will get
it in care. If you need a certain procedure to live,
you will get it, and it's unlikely that you'll pay
for it. There are obviously some people watching this or
(05:01):
be saying to themselves, well, actually I have this medication
that I'm paying for. The pharmaceutical side is slightly different.
I'm lucky in the sense that I don't have to
pay for any medications right now. However, there are certain
out of pocket costs for drugs and things like that
that you might have to pay for at the pharmacy.
If you're given a prescription. It can get quite expensive,
so there are those additional costs to it, but just
(05:23):
the seeing the doctor and getting treatment side of things, surgery,
there's no cost to that in terms of the wait
times you can depending on the procedure. Again, it's on necessity, right,
so if you really need something, you will get it
within a relative short amount of time.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Who de trumins the necessity of it.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's really based on the resources at the hospital, the
resources at your doctor's clinic. Like, basically, it's a medical decision.
It's a medical decision based on I would imagine again
I'm not a doctor and I have no medical training,
but I would imagine it's based on impacts on life,
impacts on day to day life, like how much pain
is this person in? Can can this pain be mitigated
(06:00):
in some sense by whatever procedure we have to do,
and how much time can this person be in that
kind of pain? And if you know, and they have
the resources to do it in a certain amount of time. Yeah,
I think medical necessity is the primary element of Canadian
the Canadian healthcare system additional sort of specialty surgical care.
And you know, if you needed let's say, cancer treatment,
(06:23):
you might go to the States to go to the
top Harvard doctor rather than have it in Careada, where
perhaps you might be working with a specialist, but they
might not be the best in the world. You still
have the option of paying for more by going to
the States because of how close the States is to Careada.
I think the data is like quite a few wealthy
people still go to the States. A lot of Canadian
(06:45):
politicians go to the States to get their healthcare because
they can get like the latest procedure right. But the
idea is ninety nine percent of people are covered for
ninety nine percent of the procedures that are necessary for
their general day to day life. So yeah, the coverage
is based on need.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
When can a procedure or treatment to be denied in Canada, I.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Think that there are stipulations. For example, because it's done provincially.
Each province has their own health system, so OHEP, which
is Ontario's health system. There are regulators in place that
determine what is covered and what is not covered under
that system, and these things change. I don't know how
often that they have governing bodies that meet often, so
(07:29):
it can change all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You might not hear about it.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You might find out, for example, if you had cancer
and your doctor said, well, I know about this drug
that could help you. Let me speak to the regulations
that approve these drugs and find out whether we can
get this for you and get it covered under ohip
and so that it would go through your doctor and
then go through the regulators. There's just a different set
(07:54):
of regulations that define what's covered, what is and how.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So I think the main differentiated is the government is
not a for profit organization exactly, but the insurance companies are.
That is the underlying issue that kind of triggered what
happened a few weeks ago. Right, I'm going to claim
ignorance to say that I do not know the specifics
of what happened in terms of what cost the guy
(08:19):
to shoot to the CEO meaning his personal issue or
from what I've heard, it's kind of a bigger issue
in terms of capitalists versus a common man kind of
an approach. But it's the profit making enterprise of a
life saving activity that is kind of the issue with
with everybody. So should anybody go through middleman who plays
(08:41):
god for life saving medication?
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, I've not.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Fortunately, I've not had situations where insurance has denied coverage.
I won't say that will not happen, but I have
heard what I've read from talking to people is that
they have denied coverage, which is kind of on fortunate.
The question or the process that put that in places
flawed because as a for profit enterprise, the more money
(09:08):
you have in your pockets better for you and for shapholders.
How do you get more money by not paying for
a lot of cares that you're supposed to. That is
kind of the sticking point as the throne that is
kind of hurting a lot of people. So law, I mean,
you were asking me why this happened, right, Like why
what triggered it? I think that's the main reason, Like
the power with just a few that determinds the life
(09:31):
and death of a lot more.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I guess my major question when we were talking the
other day about this was like, what do you think
it is? Like why now, Like this healthcare system has
been in place since at least it's gotten the health
insurance industry has grown at least since Reagan was in power, right,
so this is this has been coming for decades, but
this is like the spotlight on the issue that hasn't
been in place for decades, and it seems like there's
(09:56):
been a building up of anger and frustration, and it
sort of gets to the idea of income inequality first
of all, but also you have something that I don't
This guy was a millionaire. He was a CEO of
a healthcare insurance in a company that was using AI
as far as I know, as far as people say,
they were using AI to deny claims to deny, and
(10:19):
the person that allegedly killed him was had some sort
of health issue and his claim had been denied, or
at least he had had connection to something that was
a negative element about the healthcare industry. He was angry
at the healthcare industry, I would imagine. I think that
the latest data is about one hundred million Americans are
in debt because of health care and health insurance. There's
(10:41):
a lot of anger out there. There's a lot of
people that are angry about health costs and health insurance
in general. The reason that I brought it up, what
we were discussing it the other day, is that it
seems strange to me that all of a sudden, this
is a big issue that people are talking about, not
just because this happened, But I think it's also the
fact that there's a separation between very rich and very poor,
(11:02):
and also the use of technology I think is an
element to that too, the idea that I can separate
myself from the decision of who gets care and who
doesn't by using technology to make that decision. Again, I
don't know whether the United Healthcare does that. I can't
say that they do, but that was the There's certainly
nothing to deny the fact that they've been using AI
in some way to decide who gets healthcare and who
(11:24):
does it, which is obviously some sort of like dystopian
nightmare if you have any sort of human sense of
morality or a sense of understanding about empathy and pain,
that you can use a computer.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
To deny someone's right to live.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What is the sense that you get as to why
this happened now, and has that changed any of the
conversations that you're having.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think it's a culmination of a lot of things
that's been happening in the past few years, starting from
four five years ago. The Black Lives Matter, the slow
consolidation of power either economic political within a very few people.
That's affecting the livelihood for a lot. Also, the people
we elected were not up to expectations. That's also a
(12:05):
big thing dividing the country and the economic inequality. So
it's kind of a slow shift towards power with the
very few people affecting everyday life for the vast majority
of us. You said something like two percent three percent
of the people having the power for the rest ninety
eight person of the people. I think it's all culminated
(12:26):
with the CEO being shot because it's kind of a response.
It's like when you're corner, what do you do? You
fight your way back?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The law is not on the common person side, the
economic power is not on the common person side, So
what else are you supposed to do? It has to
explore at some point. It's like overinflating a balloon. It's
going to explore at some point.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so what else is somebody supposed to do? That's
why there's a huge popularity or huge support for Luigi.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I mean, he has yet to be prone guilty, but.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
He's allegedly the guy that's allegedly yes Thompson's sea at least.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, So there's huge support for him. There's not much
support or even a sympathy for the CEO that was killed.
So the reasons I stated was what caused this, At
least from my understanding, I might be wrong. And it's
an interesting time because the new administration is coming into
power with their own issues. This is happening in the side,
So it's going to be an interesting turn of events
in twenty twenty five because this one, I don't know
(13:24):
when it's going to go to trial or whatnot. So yeah,
that's my take on it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, it's an interesting idea of you talk about Brian
Thompson was the CEO that was killed. I always think
about this thought experiment of it's impossible, but it's naive
of me to even suggest it. But even if I
had a conversation with him and said, like, what do
you think the benefit of your job is? Like what
what do you enjoy about your actual I would because
it's just so foreign to me the people in that job.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
For the CEO that was killed, it's more on what
he has to do drive revenue, drive profits to the shadholders.
Maybe his compensation is tied directly to that, which I'm
one hundred percent sure that's how it works. It does
not matter how many claims he denies. But to be fair,
as much as the claim they deny, they also approve
a lot of claims.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm not saying that they are the most evil companies
in the world, but they're not in the best business.
From a model slash ethics point of view, I believe
healthcare should be nonprofit. There are a lot of companies
that are nonprofit. It's better run by the government, like
in Canada or in Europe. Again, it just my feeling
just because of the stigma attached to privatization of very
(14:31):
serious entities like this, like healthcare, sanitation, telecom, those things
people need to survive. Even water systems, right, rivers, everything
has to be kind of nationalized just because the impact
is on huge sorts of people rather than you going
retail shopping for example.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Right. So again, it just my thought.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If I could speak to Brian Thompson, the CEO that
was shot about his job, you must know if you
are in that position that people are dying based on
the decisions that you will make.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So it's kind of like it's not that much different
than being in the military, at least with the military.
It's sort of like the idea is you're serving your country.
You know, you might have to kill somebody, but you
are doing something in theory a greater good. You believe
in something right in the healthcare industry, for me, it's
sort of like there's no greater good.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
The end of the day.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, you get a paycheck, which is great, and they
they make tons of money. There's nothing wrong with making
tons of money. That's fine. It's the idea of, like,
you're getting to decide whether this kid gets leukemia medication,
and you know, you might put it, like I said,
you might say, oh, well, the technology decided that. It's like, well,
come on, like if you're in a role where you
(15:40):
can influence that. Of course, we spoke with Ethan right.
Ethan's a doctor about the development process for drugs and
we had an interesting discussion about that. It's very similar
to that. It's the idea of like, Okay, I understand
these things have costs. You got to research the drug,
you got to figure out what works and what doesn't.
People have got to go through the testing process. I'm
(16:00):
not naive enough to believe that there's not a process
that you have to undertake it's the idea of the
people that are in the health insurance. Surely they must
know that the fair function has very limited value as
from a moral point of view.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm sure he does.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's a job at the end of the day for him,
at least, I'm assuming again, I'm just this all conjecture
and assumption, denying the claims and not do anything. I
don't think it comes to him for every case.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's not the individual that's making the decisions. There's an
organization and.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You know, but they're getting paid the big box because
they're responsible for the organization. So the CEO is responsible
for the company, and that's why he was targeted, imagining
it can be taken both ways. Hey, we're also helping people.
But the negativity, as in anything, the negativity stands out
rather than the positives of anything. You number that more.
(16:50):
It affects you mentally more. That's why it's better to
have more positive experience than negative, because the negatives stay
with you longer. It affects you emotionally.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, it's the journalism saying if it bleeds, it leads, right,
It's like the big story is.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Always exactly Yeah, if it bleeds, it leaves.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, you're You're right.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I'm just giving example.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Another person might have his or her heart surgery approad,
for example, surgery is done there, back to recuperation, therapy,
and now back leading.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
So the family did.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Not lose anybody, you know, maybe a few months of
hardships and then back to normal. But somebody who lost
a lowed family member because of insurance not paying out
for a treatment, that's going to stay with them much longer.
So that's going to impact you more. That's going to
have a negative feelings.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Like a terrible existence.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It seems like you'd be at least from a Laurel standpoint,
you know, I would have a hard time sleeping.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
That's why that way.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, I lost my mom to leukemia years ago. It
has nothing to do with the insurance or anything. It's
just that the treatment didn't.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Work for her.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm saying from a lost point of view, so it
stays with you for a long time. Of course, if
it had been something else and she's alive, I would
not have life would not have been asked drastically changed
as it was for us. So I'm talking from a
lost point of view, not from an insurance point of view.
But the end result is the same losing somebody in
a car accident or to denial. Denial, it hurts more
(18:11):
because there's something of control.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We're talking about pain, right, pain is the is the
major and it triggers something I think in people, no
pun intended, but there's a there's some sort of as
you said, it lingers with you, that kind of negativity.
That kind of pain rather than joy, sort of is
momentary and fleeting. Right, there's a sort of a permanent
permanence to that kind of pain, and I think there's
(18:35):
something to be said for the loved one through someone
else's actions. But do you think there's a greater amount
of pain or anger in society in general these days
than there was maybe five, ten, fifteen years ago? Because
you and I both enough these I feel like in
my teaes, I don't feel like there was this level
of discord, disagreement and difference between people. Even in Canada,
(18:56):
where we are between right and left politically each issue
you there seems to be such animosity on both in
terms of adult sides.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it's the proliferation of social media. Anybody can
be an expert in something behind a keyboard, but if
the same person were in front of people, they'd be
quite as a mouse. So I think that amplification is
more because of social media. In the nineties, when there
was literally the number or even early two thousands. When
I was in college, it was I don't know if
(19:24):
you used the Aol instant messenger, I did not experience
the level of hatred animosity as I do now. And
then also the instant gratification of high speed internet, the smartphones,
the various channels, the NonStop bed of information, notifications, whatnot.
It just makes it just overwhelms your senses. And also
(19:45):
it just amplifies everything. The person who would have not
talked much about their feelings even a decade ago, would
be the loudest person in the room now behind their screen.
I think that matters a lot because we cannot talk
about this exposure without social media, the various platforms to
you to be the Twitter or ex whatever you call it,
(20:07):
a TikTok. In the past ten years, these have just
expanded like nothing. I think that that plays a major
role in this.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And these platforms give It's a double edged sword, right,
because these platforms give the woman who didn't have a
voice in countries like Saudi Arabia and some other countries
in the Middleast. It's given the women's rights movement more volume,
more amplification, and you know there are strides being made
to improve individual lives around the world because of social media.
(20:37):
And then you have this other side of the coin
where there seems to be a widening gap, just like
we talked about with the income gap, right there seems
to be a widening thought gap where everybody goes to
their various sort of internet silos and has their own
opinion and you find a like minded group and it
sort of separates everyone based on the way you think
(20:58):
and feel. Like I'm a Manchester United fans, so I
go to Manchester United like the subreddits on Reddit, I
read about them.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
But it's the same thing with politics.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It's like you only go to the right wing if
you if you're on the right, you only go to
the left wing if you're on the left.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And it almost seems like these things snowball.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And with the idea of as you were saying, the
more extremist ideas get more attention. They're trying to sort
of make a name for themselves, whether it's good or bad.
If anything. I want to blend in more. I want
to de influence people. I want to say, hey, think
for yourself. I don't want to influence you. Think for yourself.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
There's nothing wrong with being average.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, exactly, be average. I'd be a great motivational speaker.
Be average.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Everybody, No average, perform your average best before six?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
What's wrong with sixty percent? Just yeah, nobody likes an
overachieve either, cea student. It's easier, easier, life, better for everybody.
So yeah, the idea basically that there seems to be
that weird separation now between a lot of different groups, politically,
every sort of sphere you can think of, and I think,
like as we were just mentioning, it's also to do
(22:05):
with income. It's also the income separation of the last
twenty fifteen, twenty years, all these movements that you and
I were just talking offline before about what year Occupy
Wall Street was, and you told me at twenty eleven.
I was surprised it was twenty eleven. I thought it
was like right after the financial crisis, which I think
was two thousand and nine. But I think these things
sort of take a little while to get going right.
There's these movements that happen, and Occupy Wall Street as
(22:27):
a movement sort of petered out after a while for
whatever reason. But it's and you mentioned Black Lives Matter too,
and other societal movement that happened, so you know, these
things can sort of grow and fall quite quickly. It
seems like they're growing in scale as the years go by.
It seems like they're becoming bigger and bigger, and so
like Occupy Wall Street was relatively small, black Lives Matter
(22:48):
was quite a big thing, and it's still ongoing obviously,
and it's an important issue. However, there's gonna be another
movement now where it seems to be people are moving
towards getting a little bit heated now. It's getting a
greater level of animosity, right do you do you get
that sense to being in the States?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Is there a lot of anger there right now?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Because obviously, what is it, We're like three four days
out from some inauguration now, so it seems like.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
It seems like we're a perfect boiling point for the US.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, it's not a sudden rise of this hater animosity.
I think it's a lot of frustration with how things
are not moving we have an administration coming in that
majority of the people don't want, so it's going to
be chaos the first few months. And also the majority
in Congress not sure much will be passed. Again, it's
(23:35):
not a good situation to be in with no clear direction.
And this goes back to anxiety that we talked about
at least on every episode, right because this unknowns nobody knows,
and people get anxious. People get scared of the unknowns.
So coming towards that, how do you think people can
hope with this?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This is sort of like the big question of So
we talked about the fact that there is a level
of anger out there about what's going on about the
income quality that has been rising over a period of
you know, at least fifteen twenty thirty years at least.
There was a period in the eighteen seventies that Mark
Twain called the Gilded Age where there was a great
separation between the rich and the poor in the States,
(24:14):
and a lot of the US labor laws such as
they are, were built around that time of rebellion because
people recognize that, you know, they weren't they didn't have
any a lot of rights, they didn't have a lot
of money, and they were like, hey, you guys seem
to have a lot, let's let's share some of this.
And I think that's you know, the idea is it's
got to happen politically first, and that's the best way
(24:35):
to do it. I'm a big fan of like passive
resistance rather than violence in any way. I don't think
violence really accomplishes anything other than to sort of don't
get me wrong, Like there have been violent groups that
have accomplished their goals.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just disagree with most of their methods.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Violence.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I'm not saying it's better or good, but just a
different way of getting the same thing. So the end
results should be what the majority want the method. It
all depends on the situation. Like I said, right, how
much can the balloon expand without bursting? How much can
you be pressed onto a connor it's human emotions, how
much can you push somebody? So, I mean, I'm not
(25:12):
sinking balance is the answer, but what else is the answer?
If none of the other things work, if there are
other options, then this will not have happened. The incient
situation was not new. It's not something that came up.
But like Unit discussed, it's been happening for the past
so many decades, so there has to be a turning
point and if not now, then when is it right?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And that's the thing is that it isn't just the
fact that there was a shooting and someone die, which
is horrible.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's the idea of why it happened. Why Why now?
Why now? Is the big thing for me.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Unless the fundamental has change, it's.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
The structure underneath that's the problem. And this brings us
back to the healthcare system, right it's the structure that's
the problem, not Brian Thompson United Healthcare like he's just
a guy that goes to school, gets a great job,
becomes a millionaire. Good for him, but he's part of
a ructure in a system. To change the structure with
violence is very difficult. So let's say, in terms of solutions,
(26:06):
I know for sure there are companies and organizations throughout
the US that will help you with healthcare costs. There
are charities out there that will pay for for example,
if you've been in the military in the US or
you are a single parent, they will help you with
your healthcare cost You can find them online. I don't
know the names right now, but maybe we can do
another spotlight on those companies. There are many great organizations
(26:30):
that help people with their healthcare casts. That's one element
to it is understanding that there are resources that can
help you. And also there are, as I said, there
are ways to organize thought and organize ideas and structures
that you can use to sort of counteract this. Find
people that have these ideas and build on something, build
on something with a community, and organize around finding your
(26:53):
network and people that can counteract these sort of structures
that allowing billionaires to make all this money. Like it's
not It's not an easy process and it takes time.
I don't think that. I don't think you can give
up on the idea of a national health service. In
(27:13):
the US, you guys have the Affordable Care Act, you
have Obamacare. Obama tried to do something. He wasn't perfect, obviously,
but he tried to put something in place where the
majority would have some sort of healthcare. As far as
I understand that there was outside of the insurance industry
to pur view there.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
There's a lot of consciences where we don't have tangible
solutions right because this is unlike our anxiety and uncertainty
episodes that we did. This is not something that's intrinsic
to the individual. It is something external. You can identify
other problems, but the solution is not with the neoclass.
I'm talking about the problem, not an individual problem exactly.
(27:51):
So from a solutions point, what we can at least
suggest is kind of a support group. Like you said,
your group's been in your state, in a local area,
in your towns and cities for the support that you need.
If you've lost all lout one you don't know how
to get through a particular problem, there's no other way
out of it than to seek a therapeutic outlet like
(28:15):
talking to somebody, talking to a close friend, to family
members or like minded people going through a similar situation
in their lives. We as social beings need that connection,
especially while going through a negative life event that will
always be there. You'll always face life events that need support.
And think of your family friends who have not talked
to with a long time. Maybe they're going through something,
(28:37):
so reach out if it is something medical you are facing,
or sincere wishes that you get out of it soon.
We don't have a solution further, unfortunately, because it's not
something you can control. So hopefully whatever you can do,
we'll try to put some resources help you out. But
there's one of the instances where Rob, I don't think
our regular solutions will work.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Right. It's much more bigger than that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
There are as you said, there's no there's no clear
and definable solution to the problem of the American healthcare system.
If there was fast, fast matter, people than me would
have come up with it. I empathize with people that
are really struggling with this. Reach out to people and say,
you know, what do you think about this? How can
I get through this and have more conversations about how
(29:19):
you feel about important issues, Arm yourself with the nation,
and then you can arm others with information, and that's
how you can improve things around you and how you
can take some sort of ownership and power from what
is a relatively isolating and powerless situation.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Your closest friends are your support group, closer friends and family.
And I think we can end on that note drop
and maybe we'll have a follow on in a couple
of months just to see where things are. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
We I think it's going to be about taking the
temperature of society and seeing what happens over the next
few months, and sort of I don't imagine that any
solutions are going to happen in the next six months
or so, but I think there's certainly going to be more.
We're going to see more a let's go landscape that
is certainly going to be interesting to talk about, and
there's going to be things that both on the right
(30:05):
and the left are going to happen, and we're going
to be able to have more discussions about these kind
of things. That these are sort of a never ending
cycle of bad news stories, right, But it's really not.
It's really not about the actual story itself. It's about
why these things happen. So it's always good to sort
of find out the backstory as to what's actually going
on in general society that leads to the actual.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Story, what the reason behind these things exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
That's that's what we're talking about, and I'm sure we'll
have more more conversations about that kind of thing in
the future, and it's just about trying to figure these
things out as best we can.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
So thanks for your time today. This is a very
good topic, very relevant, really current. We'll talk to you
on the next one.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You two great speaking with you man
Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Mental Wealth Podcast.
I am Rob and here with me is McCann. How
are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 4 (00:11):
I love how I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Excellent, man, excellent. It's twenty twenty five. How did that
help to you? It is so great to be speaking
with you again. I'm excited for the year ahead for
ped On My Way and for the Mental Wealth Podcast.
I think we've got a lot of good guests coming up,
but today it's going to be you and me. We
were just actually having a good discussion about the healthcare
(00:36):
systems in general. You had a few questions for me
about CAREDA, and I had several questions mostly about logic
and common sense to you about the American healthcare system,
and so I thought I could off today by sort
of talking about that a little bit. I know it's
been in the news with the killing of Brian Thompson,
the healthcare CEO of from United Healthcare. What do you
(00:57):
think is the major difference that you're seeing right now
in your healthcare that you wouldn't necessarily see in the States,
that I would see in Canada. What do you think
the major difference is from an American perspective, because I
know you had some confusion about how it works in Canada.
How do I get paid? How sorry, how do doctors
get paid? What is the major confusion that people from
(01:18):
the States have about the Canadian system and how it works.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My insurance is tied through my work. For most of
the folks, it's tied to your work. It was a
policy implemented in the sixties seventies. I think in Canada
does not you have a national health system? And I
believe you mentioned you have a health card that is
different from province to province, but overall the plan is
almost the same throughout so here. If something goes wrong,
for example, I go to the doctor, I have what
(01:43):
is called its a cope. I paid the ten fifteen
dollars twenty dollars for that consultation. The doctor gives me whatever,
a prescription for antibiotics or something, and then the doctor
has a rate agreed with the insurance company on how
much the doctor gets paid for that consultation. For example,
I do not have insurance. If I pay out of
(02:03):
pocket my consultation for you for the antibiotics, you might
cost two hundred dollars out of pocket. I have to
pay the doctor. But to get that lower rate, I
pay a monthly premium to the health insurance company through
my work. A younger individual else is much healthier than
older individuals, so the insurance company makes money from the
(02:25):
young people to pay the old people. Right. The older
you are, the more prone you are to get fall,
sick ailments, serious health issues. So the insurance is able
to officert that cost from young people with not that
many hospital wizards, right, running a cost on an ancients company.
So that is how I'm just generalizing it. I'm sure
there's a lot more complicated situations, a lot more rules
(02:49):
and regulations in place, but this is how it generally works.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
But at least.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
From the US perceptive of Canadian system is that it's
tied into the tax you pay. Because of that, your
tax goes up and the healthcare you get is below
the quality of care we get in the US. Again,
it's just an assumption. I've not lived in a in Canada,
so I do not know. I've not experienced this, So
that's what I wanted your input. And also I just
(03:15):
a matter of me making an appointment with my doctor.
It can come as soon as the next day or
in a couple of days. For at least your primary
care physician specialists take a little longer because you know
there's a backup. So this is how it generally works
in the US. So how does it compare to how
Canada work?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, it's interesting, just like that's why I'm asking you
from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's so interesting to hear.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And you see this on the on the news a
lot of the time too, you'll see it sort of
there's sort of a cartoon version of how Canadian healthcare
system works. Right, It's like you go to the you
have to you have to wait six months to because
you've got a headache. Right, But basically what happens is
like like you said, you're right, we have a healthcare
health card.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
You go to the emergency room.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
If you have an emergency, you get prioritized based on
how serious your illness or injury is. So obviously, if
you if you have a more serious if you've had
a stroke or something like that, you'll you'll go in
quicker than someone that's maybe got a nasty cut. So
you're prioritize based on the seriousness of your injury. You
go in, you show your health card, to the admitting team,
(04:22):
then you see your doctor. At no point, really is
there any discussion about finances unless you know you can
pay for extras, like you can pay for a private
room at the hospital if you want to. I think
it's like fifty Like where we are, it's like fifty
or one hundred dollars for a private room.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's not a huge amount, but it's it's like almost
like a budget hotel kind of price if you want
to pay for a private room. There are so there
are additions to that, but basically you get it's it's
based on necessity. If you need something, you will get
it in care. If you need a certain procedure to live,
you will get it, and it's unlikely that you'll pay
for it. There are obviously some people watching this or
(05:01):
be saying to themselves, well, actually I have this medication
that I'm paying for. The pharmaceutical side is slightly different.
I'm lucky in the sense that I don't have to
pay for any medications right now. However, there are certain
out of pocket costs for drugs and things like that
that you might have to pay for at the pharmacy.
If you're given a prescription. It can get quite expensive,
so there are those additional costs to it, but just
(05:23):
the seeing the doctor and getting treatment side of things, surgery,
there's no cost to that in terms of the wait
times you can depending on the procedure. Again, it's on necessity, right,
so if you really need something, you will get it
within a relative short amount of time.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Who de trumins the necessity of it.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's really based on the resources at the hospital, the
resources at your doctor's clinic. Like, basically, it's a medical decision.
It's a medical decision based on I would imagine again
I'm not a doctor and I have no medical training,
but I would imagine it's based on impacts on life,
impacts on day to day life, like how much pain
is this person in? Can can this pain be mitigated
(06:00):
in some sense by whatever procedure we have to do,
and how much time can this person be in that
kind of pain? And if you know, and they have
the resources to do it in a certain amount of time. Yeah,
I think medical necessity is the primary element of Canadian
the Canadian healthcare system additional sort of specialty surgical care.
And you know, if you needed let's say, cancer treatment,
(06:23):
you might go to the States to go to the
top Harvard doctor rather than have it in Careada, where
perhaps you might be working with a specialist, but they
might not be the best in the world. You still
have the option of paying for more by going to
the States because of how close the States is to Careada.
I think the data is like quite a few wealthy
people still go to the States. A lot of Canadian
(06:45):
politicians go to the States to get their healthcare because
they can get like the latest procedure right. But the
idea is ninety nine percent of people are covered for
ninety nine percent of the procedures that are necessary for
their general day to day life. So yeah, the coverage
is based on need.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
When can a procedure or treatment to be denied in Canada, I.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Think that there are stipulations. For example, because it's done provincially.
Each province has their own health system, so OHEP, which
is Ontario's health system. There are regulators in place that
determine what is covered and what is not covered under
that system, and these things change. I don't know how
often that they have governing bodies that meet often, so
(07:29):
it can change all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You might not hear about it.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You might find out, for example, if you had cancer
and your doctor said, well, I know about this drug
that could help you. Let me speak to the regulations
that approve these drugs and find out whether we can
get this for you and get it covered under ohip
and so that it would go through your doctor and
then go through the regulators. There's just a different set
(07:54):
of regulations that define what's covered, what is and how.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So I think the main differentiated is the government is
not a for profit organization exactly, but the insurance companies are.
That is the underlying issue that kind of triggered what
happened a few weeks ago. Right, I'm going to claim
ignorance to say that I do not know the specifics
of what happened in terms of what cost the guy
(08:19):
to shoot to the CEO meaning his personal issue or
from what I've heard, it's kind of a bigger issue
in terms of capitalists versus a common man kind of
an approach. But it's the profit making enterprise of a
life saving activity that is kind of the issue with
with everybody. So should anybody go through middleman who plays
(08:41):
god for life saving medication?
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, I've not.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Fortunately, I've not had situations where insurance has denied coverage.
I won't say that will not happen, but I have
heard what I've read from talking to people is that
they have denied coverage, which is kind of on fortunate.
The question or the process that put that in places
flawed because as a for profit enterprise, the more money
(09:08):
you have in your pockets better for you and for shapholders.
How do you get more money by not paying for
a lot of cares that you're supposed to. That is
kind of the sticking point as the throne that is
kind of hurting a lot of people. So law, I mean,
you were asking me why this happened, right, Like why
what triggered it? I think that's the main reason, Like
the power with just a few that determinds the life
(09:31):
and death of a lot more.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I guess my major question when we were talking the
other day about this was like, what do you think
it is? Like why now, Like this healthcare system has
been in place since at least it's gotten the health
insurance industry has grown at least since Reagan was in power, right,
so this is this has been coming for decades, but
this is like the spotlight on the issue that hasn't
been in place for decades, and it seems like there's
(09:56):
been a building up of anger and frustration, and it
sort of gets to the idea of income inequality first
of all, but also you have something that I don't
This guy was a millionaire. He was a CEO of
a healthcare insurance in a company that was using AI
as far as I know, as far as people say,
they were using AI to deny claims to deny, and
(10:19):
the person that allegedly killed him was had some sort
of health issue and his claim had been denied, or
at least he had had connection to something that was
a negative element about the healthcare industry. He was angry
at the healthcare industry, I would imagine. I think that
the latest data is about one hundred million Americans are
in debt because of health care and health insurance. There's
(10:41):
a lot of anger out there. There's a lot of
people that are angry about health costs and health insurance
in general. The reason that I brought it up, what
we were discussing it the other day, is that it
seems strange to me that all of a sudden, this
is a big issue that people are talking about, not
just because this happened, But I think it's also the
fact that there's a separation between very rich and very poor,
(11:02):
and also the use of technology I think is an
element to that too, the idea that I can separate
myself from the decision of who gets care and who
doesn't by using technology to make that decision. Again, I
don't know whether the United Healthcare does that. I can't
say that they do, but that was the There's certainly
nothing to deny the fact that they've been using AI
in some way to decide who gets healthcare and who
(11:24):
does it, which is obviously some sort of like dystopian
nightmare if you have any sort of human sense of
morality or a sense of understanding about empathy and pain,
that you can use a computer.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
To deny someone's right to live.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What is the sense that you get as to why
this happened now, and has that changed any of the
conversations that you're having.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think it's a culmination of a lot of things
that's been happening in the past few years, starting from
four five years ago. The Black Lives Matter, the slow
consolidation of power either economic political within a very few people.
That's affecting the livelihood for a lot. Also, the people
we elected were not up to expectations. That's also a
(12:05):
big thing dividing the country and the economic inequality. So
it's kind of a slow shift towards power with the
very few people affecting everyday life for the vast majority
of us. You said something like two percent three percent
of the people having the power for the rest ninety
eight person of the people. I think it's all culminated
(12:26):
with the CEO being shot because it's kind of a response.
It's like when you're corner, what do you do? You
fight your way back?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The law is not on the common person side, the
economic power is not on the common person side, So
what else are you supposed to do? It has to
explore at some point. It's like overinflating a balloon. It's
going to explore at some point.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so what else is somebody supposed to do? That's
why there's a huge popularity or huge support for Luigi.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I mean, he has yet to be prone guilty, but.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
He's allegedly the guy that's allegedly yes Thompson's sea at least.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, So there's huge support for him. There's not much
support or even a sympathy for the CEO that was killed.
So the reasons I stated was what caused this, At
least from my understanding, I might be wrong. And it's
an interesting time because the new administration is coming into
power with their own issues. This is happening in the side,
So it's going to be an interesting turn of events
in twenty twenty five because this one, I don't know
(13:24):
when it's going to go to trial or whatnot. So yeah,
that's my take on it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, it's an interesting idea of you talk about Brian
Thompson was the CEO that was killed. I always think
about this thought experiment of it's impossible, but it's naive
of me to even suggest it. But even if I
had a conversation with him and said, like, what do
you think the benefit of your job is? Like what
what do you enjoy about your actual I would because
it's just so foreign to me the people in that job.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
For the CEO that was killed, it's more on what
he has to do drive revenue, drive profits to the shadholders.
Maybe his compensation is tied directly to that, which I'm
one hundred percent sure that's how it works. It does
not matter how many claims he denies. But to be fair,
as much as the claim they deny, they also approve
a lot of claims.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm not saying that they are the most evil companies
in the world, but they're not in the best business.
From a model slash ethics point of view, I believe
healthcare should be nonprofit. There are a lot of companies
that are nonprofit. It's better run by the government, like
in Canada or in Europe. Again, it just my feeling
just because of the stigma attached to privatization of very
(14:31):
serious entities like this, like healthcare, sanitation, telecom, those things
people need to survive. Even water systems, right, rivers, everything
has to be kind of nationalized just because the impact
is on huge sorts of people rather than you going
retail shopping for example.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Right. So again, it just my thought.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If I could speak to Brian Thompson, the CEO that
was shot about his job, you must know if you
are in that position that people are dying based on
the decisions that you will make.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So it's kind of like it's not that much different
than being in the military, at least with the military.
It's sort of like the idea is you're serving your country.
You know, you might have to kill somebody, but you
are doing something in theory a greater good. You believe
in something right in the healthcare industry, for me, it's
sort of like there's no greater good.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
The end of the day.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, you get a paycheck, which is great, and they
they make tons of money. There's nothing wrong with making
tons of money. That's fine. It's the idea of, like,
you're getting to decide whether this kid gets leukemia medication,
and you know, you might put it, like I said,
you might say, oh, well, the technology decided that. It's like, well,
come on, like if you're in a role where you
(15:40):
can influence that. Of course, we spoke with Ethan right.
Ethan's a doctor about the development process for drugs and
we had an interesting discussion about that. It's very similar
to that. It's the idea of like, Okay, I understand
these things have costs. You got to research the drug,
you got to figure out what works and what doesn't.
People have got to go through the testing process. I'm
(16:00):
not naive enough to believe that there's not a process
that you have to undertake it's the idea of the
people that are in the health insurance. Surely they must
know that the fair function has very limited value as
from a moral point of view.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm sure he does.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's a job at the end of the day for him,
at least, I'm assuming again, I'm just this all conjecture
and assumption, denying the claims and not do anything. I
don't think it comes to him for every case.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's not the individual that's making the decisions. There's an
organization and.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You know, but they're getting paid the big box because
they're responsible for the organization. So the CEO is responsible
for the company, and that's why he was targeted, imagining
it can be taken both ways. Hey, we're also helping people.
But the negativity, as in anything, the negativity stands out
rather than the positives of anything. You number that more.
(16:50):
It affects you mentally more. That's why it's better to
have more positive experience than negative, because the negatives stay
with you longer. It affects you emotionally.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, it's the journalism saying if it bleeds, it leads, right,
It's like the big story is.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Always exactly Yeah, if it bleeds, it leaves.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, you're You're right.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I'm just giving example.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Another person might have his or her heart surgery approad,
for example, surgery is done there, back to recuperation, therapy,
and now back leading.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
So the family did.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Not lose anybody, you know, maybe a few months of
hardships and then back to normal. But somebody who lost
a lowed family member because of insurance not paying out
for a treatment, that's going to stay with them much longer.
So that's going to impact you more. That's going to
have a negative feelings.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Like a terrible existence.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It seems like you'd be at least from a Laurel standpoint,
you know, I would have a hard time sleeping.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
That's why that way.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, I lost my mom to leukemia years ago. It
has nothing to do with the insurance or anything. It's
just that the treatment didn't.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Work for her.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm saying from a lost point of view, so it
stays with you for a long time. Of course, if
it had been something else and she's alive, I would
not have life would not have been asked drastically changed
as it was for us. So I'm talking from a
lost point of view, not from an insurance point of view.
But the end result is the same losing somebody in
a car accident or to denial. Denial, it hurts more
(18:11):
because there's something of control.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We're talking about pain, right, pain is the is the
major and it triggers something I think in people, no
pun intended, but there's a there's some sort of as
you said, it lingers with you, that kind of negativity.
That kind of pain rather than joy, sort of is
momentary and fleeting. Right, there's a sort of a permanent
permanence to that kind of pain, and I think there's
(18:35):
something to be said for the loved one through someone
else's actions. But do you think there's a greater amount
of pain or anger in society in general these days
than there was maybe five, ten, fifteen years ago? Because
you and I both enough these I feel like in
my teaes, I don't feel like there was this level
of discord, disagreement and difference between people. Even in Canada,
(18:56):
where we are between right and left politically each issue
you there seems to be such animosity on both in
terms of adult sides.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it's the proliferation of social media. Anybody can
be an expert in something behind a keyboard, but if
the same person were in front of people, they'd be
quite as a mouse. So I think that amplification is
more because of social media. In the nineties, when there
was literally the number or even early two thousands. When
I was in college, it was I don't know if
(19:24):
you used the Aol instant messenger, I did not experience
the level of hatred animosity as I do now. And
then also the instant gratification of high speed internet, the smartphones,
the various channels, the NonStop bed of information, notifications, whatnot.
It just makes it just overwhelms your senses. And also
(19:45):
it just amplifies everything. The person who would have not
talked much about their feelings even a decade ago, would
be the loudest person in the room now behind their screen.
I think that matters a lot because we cannot talk
about this exposure without social media, the various platforms to
you to be the Twitter or ex whatever you call it,
(20:07):
a TikTok. In the past ten years, these have just
expanded like nothing. I think that that plays a major
role in this.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And these platforms give It's a double edged sword, right,
because these platforms give the woman who didn't have a
voice in countries like Saudi Arabia and some other countries
in the Middleast. It's given the women's rights movement more volume,
more amplification, and you know there are strides being made
to improve individual lives around the world because of social media.
(20:37):
And then you have this other side of the coin
where there seems to be a widening gap, just like
we talked about with the income gap, right there seems
to be a widening thought gap where everybody goes to
their various sort of internet silos and has their own
opinion and you find a like minded group and it
sort of separates everyone based on the way you think
(20:58):
and feel. Like I'm a Manchester United fans, so I
go to Manchester United like the subreddits on Reddit, I
read about them.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
But it's the same thing with politics.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It's like you only go to the right wing if
you if you're on the right, you only go to
the left wing if you're on the left.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And it almost seems like these things snowball.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And with the idea of as you were saying, the
more extremist ideas get more attention. They're trying to sort
of make a name for themselves, whether it's good or bad.
If anything. I want to blend in more. I want
to de influence people. I want to say, hey, think
for yourself. I don't want to influence you. Think for yourself.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
There's nothing wrong with being average.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, exactly, be average. I'd be a great motivational speaker.
Be average.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Everybody, No average, perform your average best before six?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
What's wrong with sixty percent? Just yeah, nobody likes an
overachieve either, cea student. It's easier, easier, life, better for everybody.
So yeah, the idea basically that there seems to be
that weird separation now between a lot of different groups, politically,
every sort of sphere you can think of, and I think,
like as we were just mentioning, it's also to do
(22:05):
with income. It's also the income separation of the last
twenty fifteen, twenty years, all these movements that you and
I were just talking offline before about what year Occupy
Wall Street was, and you told me at twenty eleven.
I was surprised it was twenty eleven. I thought it
was like right after the financial crisis, which I think
was two thousand and nine. But I think these things
sort of take a little while to get going right.
There's these movements that happen, and Occupy Wall Street as
(22:27):
a movement sort of petered out after a while for
whatever reason. But it's and you mentioned Black Lives Matter too,
and other societal movement that happened, so you know, these
things can sort of grow and fall quite quickly. It
seems like they're growing in scale as the years go by.
It seems like they're becoming bigger and bigger, and so
like Occupy Wall Street was relatively small, black Lives Matter
(22:48):
was quite a big thing, and it's still ongoing obviously,
and it's an important issue. However, there's gonna be another
movement now where it seems to be people are moving
towards getting a little bit heated now. It's getting a
greater level of animosity, right do you do you get
that sense to being in the States?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Is there a lot of anger there right now?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Because obviously, what is it, We're like three four days
out from some inauguration now, so it seems like.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
It seems like we're a perfect boiling point for the US.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, it's not a sudden rise of this hater animosity.
I think it's a lot of frustration with how things
are not moving we have an administration coming in that
majority of the people don't want, so it's going to
be chaos the first few months. And also the majority
in Congress not sure much will be passed. Again, it's
(23:35):
not a good situation to be in with no clear direction.
And this goes back to anxiety that we talked about
at least on every episode, right because this unknowns nobody knows,
and people get anxious. People get scared of the unknowns.
So coming towards that, how do you think people can
hope with this?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This is sort of like the big question of So
we talked about the fact that there is a level
of anger out there about what's going on about the
income quality that has been rising over a period of
you know, at least fifteen twenty thirty years at least.
There was a period in the eighteen seventies that Mark
Twain called the Gilded Age where there was a great
separation between the rich and the poor in the States,
(24:14):
and a lot of the US labor laws such as
they are, were built around that time of rebellion because
people recognize that, you know, they weren't they didn't have
any a lot of rights, they didn't have a lot
of money, and they were like, hey, you guys seem
to have a lot, let's let's share some of this.
And I think that's you know, the idea is it's
got to happen politically first, and that's the best way
(24:35):
to do it. I'm a big fan of like passive
resistance rather than violence in any way. I don't think
violence really accomplishes anything other than to sort of don't
get me wrong, Like there have been violent groups that
have accomplished their goals.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just disagree with most of their methods.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Violence.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I'm not saying it's better or good, but just a
different way of getting the same thing. So the end
results should be what the majority want the method. It
all depends on the situation. Like I said, right, how
much can the balloon expand without bursting? How much can
you be pressed onto a connor it's human emotions, how
much can you push somebody? So, I mean, I'm not
(25:12):
sinking balance is the answer, but what else is the answer?
If none of the other things work, if there are
other options, then this will not have happened. The incient
situation was not new. It's not something that came up.
But like Unit discussed, it's been happening for the past
so many decades, so there has to be a turning
point and if not now, then when is it right?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And that's the thing is that it isn't just the
fact that there was a shooting and someone die, which
is horrible.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's the idea of why it happened. Why Why now?
Why now? Is the big thing for me.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Unless the fundamental has change, it's.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
The structure underneath that's the problem. And this brings us
back to the healthcare system, right it's the structure that's
the problem, not Brian Thompson United Healthcare like he's just
a guy that goes to school, gets a great job,
becomes a millionaire. Good for him, but he's part of
a ructure in a system. To change the structure with
violence is very difficult. So let's say, in terms of solutions,
(26:06):
I know for sure there are companies and organizations throughout
the US that will help you with healthcare costs. There
are charities out there that will pay for for example,
if you've been in the military in the US or
you are a single parent, they will help you with
your healthcare cost You can find them online. I don't
know the names right now, but maybe we can do
another spotlight on those companies. There are many great organizations
(26:30):
that help people with their healthcare casts. That's one element
to it is understanding that there are resources that can
help you. And also there are, as I said, there
are ways to organize thought and organize ideas and structures
that you can use to sort of counteract this. Find
people that have these ideas and build on something, build
on something with a community, and organize around finding your
(26:53):
network and people that can counteract these sort of structures
that allowing billionaires to make all this money. Like it's
not It's not an easy process and it takes time.
I don't think that. I don't think you can give
up on the idea of a national health service. In
(27:13):
the US, you guys have the Affordable Care Act, you
have Obamacare. Obama tried to do something. He wasn't perfect, obviously,
but he tried to put something in place where the
majority would have some sort of healthcare. As far as
I understand that there was outside of the insurance industry
to pur view there.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
There's a lot of consciences where we don't have tangible
solutions right because this is unlike our anxiety and uncertainty
episodes that we did. This is not something that's intrinsic
to the individual. It is something external. You can identify
other problems, but the solution is not with the neoclass.
I'm talking about the problem, not an individual problem exactly.
(27:51):
So from a solutions point, what we can at least
suggest is kind of a support group. Like you said,
your group's been in your state, in a local area,
in your towns and cities for the support that you need.
If you've lost all lout one you don't know how
to get through a particular problem, there's no other way
out of it than to seek a therapeutic outlet like
(28:15):
talking to somebody, talking to a close friend, to family
members or like minded people going through a similar situation
in their lives. We as social beings need that connection,
especially while going through a negative life event that will
always be there. You'll always face life events that need support.
And think of your family friends who have not talked
to with a long time. Maybe they're going through something,
(28:37):
so reach out if it is something medical you are facing,
or sincere wishes that you get out of it soon.
We don't have a solution further, unfortunately, because it's not
something you can control. So hopefully whatever you can do,
we'll try to put some resources help you out. But
there's one of the instances where Rob, I don't think
our regular solutions will work.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Right. It's much more bigger than that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
There are as you said, there's no there's no clear
and definable solution to the problem of the American healthcare system.
If there was fast, fast matter, people than me would
have come up with it. I empathize with people that
are really struggling with this. Reach out to people and say,
you know, what do you think about this? How can
I get through this and have more conversations about how
(29:19):
you feel about important issues, Arm yourself with the nation,
and then you can arm others with information, and that's
how you can improve things around you and how you
can take some sort of ownership and power from what
is a relatively isolating and powerless situation.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Your closest friends are your support group, closer friends and family.
And I think we can end on that note drop
and maybe we'll have a follow on in a couple
of months just to see where things are. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
We I think it's going to be about taking the
temperature of society and seeing what happens over the next
few months, and sort of I don't imagine that any
solutions are going to happen in the next six months
or so, but I think there's certainly going to be more.
We're going to see more a let's go landscape that
is certainly going to be interesting to talk about, and
there's going to be things that both on the right
(30:05):
and the left are going to happen, and we're going
to be able to have more discussions about these kind
of things. That these are sort of a never ending
cycle of bad news stories, right, But it's really not.
It's really not about the actual story itself. It's about
why these things happen. So it's always good to sort
of find out the backstory as to what's actually going
on in general society that leads to the actual.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Story, what the reason behind these things exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
That's that's what we're talking about, and I'm sure we'll
have more more conversations about that kind of thing in
the future, and it's just about trying to figure these
things out as best we can.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
So thanks for your time today. This is a very
good topic, very relevant, really current. We'll talk to you
on the next one.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You two great speaking with you man
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