February 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Why do children behave the way they do? In this episode of Mental Wealth Podcast, we are joined by Hidayat Shah, who is the Founder & Clinical Director of Eden Behavioral Health. Hidayat helps us dive into the fascinating world of child psychology to uncover the reasons behind common behaviors — from temper tantrums to social withdrawal — and what they reveal about a child’s emotional and cognitive development. We explore how a child’s brain processes emotions, how their environment shapes their reactions, and why certain behaviors may seem irrational but are actually part of their growth. Most importantly, we provide practical, science-backed strategies for parents and caregivers to respond calmly and effectively.Plus, we discuss how to have honest, age-appropriate conversations with kids about what’s happening in the world — helping them feel safe, heard, and supported.
Whether you're a parent, teacher, or simply someone invested in a child’s well-being, this episode offers the tools and insights you need to nurture healthy emotional development.Tune in and take the first step toward deeper understanding and stronger connections with the children in your life.
www.mentalwealthpod.com
www.pedalmyway.com
DISCLAIMER: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker’s own and do not constitute legal, medical, or other forms of professional advice. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only. The "Mental Wealth Podcast" and "Pedal My Way" names and all forms and abbreviations are the property of its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
Whether you're a parent, teacher, or simply someone invested in a child’s well-being, this episode offers the tools and insights you need to nurture healthy emotional development.Tune in and take the first step toward deeper understanding and stronger connections with the children in your life.
www.mentalwealthpod.com
www.pedalmyway.com
DISCLAIMER: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker’s own and do not constitute legal, medical, or other forms of professional advice. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only. The "Mental Wealth Podcast" and "Pedal My Way" names and all forms and abbreviations are the property of its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
It is a question parents continually ask themselves, how can
I instill my children with confidence and support their emotional
well being. To help answer this question and provide parents
with guidance for today's uncertain world, is Kidiat Shah, the
founder and clinical director of EDEN Behavioral Health in Illinois.
We look forward to hearing your thoughts on this wide
(00:26):
ranging and engaging conversation. Kidia, great to meet you. Thank
you so much for making the time for us today.
Could you introduce Eden Health to us and gives a
little bit more about your background.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm a child therapist. I'm licensed in Illinois here in
the United States. I founded Eden Behavioral Health last year
and where our primary goal is to provide tailored solution
focusedcharacter children and adolescents, and we also work with some
young adults. My clinical background began in inpatient pediatric psychiatry
(00:57):
when I was working intensively with young kids who had
acute mental health needs, and after that I've I've specialized
in supporting children with autism, ADHD and intellectual disabilities, and
I've also served in various community mental health settings, so
in Chicago and West Garfield Park working with substance abuse.
(01:17):
That was a lot of the community work that I
did in my own community trying to adjus connect parents
and children to resources, and just the suburban area where
I live. And it's like the combination of these diverse
experiences has helped shape the collaborative approach that I take
in my own practice. It's super family centered that the
work that we do at Eaeden Behavioral Health it's super
(01:40):
solution focused because I want to make sure parents are
confident in the way that they are parenting their special
needs children. Because I always tell parents that special needs
children need special needs parenting, and I try and equip
them the strategies that they need to do that. And
you know, the reason I always take that family centered
approach is because, you know, we believe that when parents
and caregivers are actively involved, children feel more supported and
(02:04):
the therapeutic approach improves just so much more.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's fantastic. I love that the special needs approach. That's
a great way to phrase it. I'm wondering in your
clinical practice, when you meet parents for the first time
and they're coming to you for assistance, is there sort
of a misconception that you see quite often with us
thinking of new parents especially, but parents that have the
second or third child with exceptionalities? Is there a misconception
(02:29):
that you often see with parents?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I think a good way to explain this is the
story that the parents kind of find themselves through and
how that that starts. So when I get a call
from a parent or a parent just trying to schedule
an appointment with any with any child therapist, not just
with me, what's most likely happening is that there's school challenges,
their sensory issues. There's outbursts, tantrums, meltdowns there, they're struggling eating,
(02:59):
They're struggling with thingsnxiety, there's compulsive behaviors, there's impulsivity, and
they've read the books, they've looked at the blogs, but
the tools that they're doing that they've learned from those
resources aren't really working and they need a bit more
specialized care. So that's when they reach out to, you know,
ment health professional and they're like, Okay, let's we need
some help here to understand what's happening with our child
(03:20):
so we can we can best help them with me.
That's where my process is unique compared to a lot
of other mental health professionals, where the first appointment is
always parent only and we are just I'm collect My
goal is to collect as much background information as much
as possible. I want to understand everything that this child
(03:41):
is experiencing. I'm want to go through mental health symptoms.
I'm going to go through executive functioning. We're going to
try to even help label some of the behaviors that
the child is experiencing. And then with the parent, I
create treatment goals that touches on the concerns that they're
that they've come to me with ranges that could range
from a bunch of things. Right, if it's ADHD, which
is an executive functioning disorder, we go through, Okay, what
(04:03):
are the executive functioning deficits that are happening and what
goals can we create to start developing those executive functioning skills.
From then on, the child starts coming to me one
on one. I keep the parents updated, and as soon
as I start to understand the child's behavior within the appointments,
that's when I start giving parents the very step by
step things that they need to be doing at home
(04:25):
to emphasize on the work that we're doing in session.
When you see special needs, what things you see so
you know I've worked in a bunch of different areas now,
So I've worked in Chicago, I've worked in kind of
like the outskirts of the city, and I've worked in
very much suburban areas. So I've gotten to see quite
a mix of kids, and the interesting there is that
(04:48):
they all have their own unique challenges. So when I
was in Forest Park working in patient psychiatry, I was
seeing very high acuity kids, specifically their risk of harm
to others and risk of harm to self, Like there
was there was harm being done there, and that's at
the very high end of mental symptoms, and that's what
(05:09):
gets gets kids admitted into impatient in the first place.
So that's what I was seeing there. But since moving
to these suburbs and I'm in Hinsdale now where I practice,
and I used to practice in Naperville, the challenges that
I see there are different. It's not so much of
the risk of harm to sell for others. It's more
so school challenges. And you know, the risk of harm
(05:30):
to self and others does come with school challenges, but
the parents are more so focused on how do I
reduce kind of these like more mild to moderate behaviors
in a classroom, How do I kind of understand how
my child is thinking? How do I change my own parenting?
So the kids that I see now are I'm able
to help in an outpatient setting and that's usually ADHD
(05:52):
anxiety level one and level two autism. So yeah, that's
what I'm usually seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, the topic of anxiety, the CDE said that about
ten percent of children three to seventeen showing symptoms of
anxiety in a recent study. And I'm wondering, what is
the approach from a sort of tool's point of view
with a child that's experiencing anxiety, whether it's educational anxiety
or societyal anxiety. What is that initial approach or tools
(06:18):
that you would use for a child with anxiety.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I like to break down anxiety in two ways,
or actually we can kind of do it in three ways.
First is how can we can the anxiety be redirected.
If the anxiety can be redirected, I help the parent
label the behavior, and then we kind of redirect the
child to a coping skill and then with enough prompting,
the child can learn to emotionally regulate. The other way
(06:42):
we can do it is we take a look at
the parenting side, what are the unhelpful accommodations that the
parents are doing? And oftentimes kids are more aware of
the accommodations that their parents are doing, more so than
the parents even are. And I see that clearly when
I'm working with them, because when I do an accommodation removal plan,
I'm taking a look at the parenting behaviors that need
(07:04):
to be stopped or reduced to help the child start
to deal with this anxiety. And I always ask the kid.
I was like, hey, like, what do you feel like
your parents are doing in this certain situation? And they
give me such a longer list than compared to the
list that their parents sent me. And then there's the
other side of it where and this kind of go
gets into the obsessive compulsive disorder territory. Oh CD there,
(07:27):
and you know there's anxiety attached to that. It's a
unique type of anxiety characterized by obsessions and compulsions. Right,
Compulsions are just behaviors that we can't stop doing, and
it reduces the distress that's caused by the obsessive thought.
But with that, what we're going to do is we're
going to expose a child to higher and higher levels
(07:48):
of anxiety that's related to their obsessive thought, so that
they can start, you know, realizing that the response that
I have, which is this compulsive behavior is causing me
short term relief. And if I can understand that my
brain is causing noise in a situation that is not dangerous,
I can just like sit with that anxiety a little
(08:08):
bit longer, change my response and understand that I don't
listen to noise and I should be listening to signals,
which is my brain is telling me danger when there
is real danger, and not to noise, which is my
brain is saying danger when there is no danger.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
How does that when you see a child come in
with that level of anxiety, It must be interesting from
a step by step point of view to see them
from one appointment to the next when you're sort of,
as you said, you're sort of separating the anxiety, explaining
to them a little bit about what's causing that anxiety,
and then they get to realize that tangible relief. Is
there something that you would notice from one appointment to
(08:46):
the next. Is it sort of a six month twelve
month process?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Like?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
How does that work in terms of like a timeframe
for treating something like anxiety or something more complex like ADHD,
which obviously has interactive compos.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Well, every child is so so unique. If a child
comes in and they're on the very much the mild
side of things and their symptoms aren't really challenging them
on a day to day basis, I can teach the
parents some basic prompting and redirecting skills and usually in
six to eight months, the child is living a life
(09:22):
where they can regulate themselves a lot more. But if
a child is coming in and there are just tantrums
and meltdowns happening all the time at school and at home,
we need a more thorough plan at that point. We
need especially if things are happening at school, we need
to provide school resources, which usually come from an IP
or A five or four, which are just school resources
(09:44):
like extra time on a test or going to a
different room when they're feeling overwhelmed. Just resources to help
the kid at school. And when it comes to things
on the more severe side, where prompting isn't going to
help the child, that's when I see lasting into the year. Plus,
there's kids I'm that I've been seeing from the very
first day that I've started practicing. It's been probably close
(10:05):
to four years now, and they're kids that I've been
seeing for a good chunk of that time. The whole
goal here in that time is giving parents the foundation
so that when they are done with me working with
a child, they're able to handle all of the challenges
that comes with anxiety or ADHD without having to come
(10:28):
back to me. And of course, you know, they can
always come back to me, but I want them to
feel confident in what they can do and generalize the
skills across a variety of situations where they know they're
just confident in their own parenting abilities. So one of
the first things that I always start with, and this
is where a lot of my strategies start from, is
(10:49):
how do we label a child's behavior? And child's behaviors
usually fall into one of four categories, and that's access
to an item or the way something is done, so
process access behavior, So there's access. There's attention, which is
to a person or a group of people. That's access
as attention. Then there's sensory, so sensory behaviors, and the
(11:12):
common one with ASD or autism is the one that
people might often see as like the hand flapping. The
other sensory behaviors that kids might see is rubbing things
or pulling things, or appropriate sctive input, which is pressure.
And this could be avoidant behavior, or this could be
seeking behavior in terms of I like this sensory input,
(11:34):
and there's other behaviors that are I don't like the
sensory input. Then there's escape, which is the removal from
a task or situation. Let's put that in context of ADHD.
So let's say a child is in the classroom and
he keeps getting up from his desk to walk around.
Now a teacher is going to look at that child
and say, this child is defiant, He's not doing any
(11:57):
of the homework that I'm telling him to do. And
then the parents are going to look at it, well,
like are you teaching him properly? Like what's going? Is
he hungry? Like what? And then at the school is
just going to be sending emails and emails to the
parents and saying, hey, your kid keeps getting up from
the desk, can you can you please feed him? Can
you please let him give him some Outlet teach him
(12:19):
some regulation skills? But none of that is going to work.
If we don't know why the behavior is happening, Let's
go one by one. The child could be getting up
from his desk because of access. Maybe he's trying to
get something from his backpack that he needs. Maybe it's
even something to regulate him so he can complete the task,
but he ends up getting in trouble for it, and
then he never ends up getting the thing from his
(12:40):
bag in the first place. So that's access, right, And
if it's access, we wanted to provide a healthier way
of receiving his wants or needs. And that's what I
mean by redirecting behaviors, just giving the child a healthier
way of receiving their wants or needs. And then there's attention.
If is the child getting up from his desk because
(13:01):
he's trying to make people laugh. If that's the case,
then we should move his seat, don't let him sit
in the area where his friends are, have him sit
closer to the board, have him sit closer to the teacher.
That way, there's less behaviors related to the attention seeking.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Just just on that on that know is there is
there a sort of a risk that say you move
a child when the you know with their friends and
you moved into another place. Do you then do you
then risk the child saying becoming more oppositional for example,
do you do you then risk that? And then how
do you deal with that if the child? Do you
then explain to the child with doing this for this reason?
And how does that process evolve?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of telling the child what
we're doing. Okay, if the child is aware, that's just
so much better with what's happening. And I also asked, like,
why shouldn't a child be aware also in the in
the in the case of removing accommodations, if the child
doesn't know that the parent is to stop doing certain things,
(14:02):
the behavior is obviously going to increase. But to your
point though, of to your point though of is there
going to be some negative things happening because of this
resource that or intervention that we're putting on the child.
So there's this thing that happens where during any transition
period or when the external environment is changing, usually I
(14:25):
say six to eight weeks, it's sold an extinction burst.
And what that means is a child's negative behaviors will
increase during this transition period. But that's a temporary thing
that happens. It usually normalizes once the child is like, Okay,
the transition period is over. They've kind of been accustomed
(14:45):
to the new thing. And that's that's the one thing
that I've seen that really holds parents back is I
changed my behavior for it for the good, but my
child is getting worse. But we have to remember that
there's an extinction burst that is most likely going to happen,
and that we have to stay consistent with the parenting
behaviors so we can see the behaviors normalize.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Again.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I really appreciate you explaining that because from a child's
point of view, trying to understand the logic of these
sort of actions, it must be interesting for them to
sort of go through that process. And then, as you said,
the parents is saying, well, hang on a second, my
child is not improving. They're getting worse from this behavioral standpoint.
So I really appreciate you explaining the science behind the process.
And that's really an interesting way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, you know, a lot of the work with kids
is educating them. The majority of the work during sessions
is with the child, but I also have to remember
that the parents are my patient. It's just as much
as the child is at the end of the day.
The parents are the one who are going to be
making the changes that they need for the child. Going
back to that child who's getting up from his desk.
(15:52):
If the child is getting up from his desk to
fulfill some sensory need in his legs because of hyperactivity,
I'm going to teach the parents, Hey, when he's at home,
give him some stretches or some activity that he can
do so he can get this energy out of his
leg so that when he's in school he's able to
focus a bit more. Or if it's escape behavior from
(16:12):
a task, and you know, is he struggling with reading
or writing, does he have dysgraphia or dyslexia, Does he
have issues with his hands, does like fine motor issues?
What is leading to that escape behavior? And the parents
are the ones who are going to be practicing, you know,
do they need to do some occupational therapy at home
to improve the fine motor skills so that the child
(16:34):
can finally sit down and not escape the task that
the teacher is giving. So, you know, the parents are
the ones who are implementing the interventions that I'm telling
them to do.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I was also wondering. We speak a lot on this
podcast about the role of technology and society in general.
I'm just wondering whether the role of cell phones and
sort of distractions from technology, whether that has any impact
on a child psychology. And what you've noticed just from
your general day to day experiences with your clinical practice.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, across the board, when screens are reduced or removed,
there is improvement in a child's behavior. And you know,
there's this other question that I get to is do
screens cause something like ADHD? And that is that is
very much not the case. I like put it in
context of senses, your sense like a sensory based person.
(17:22):
We're all sensory based humans, right, We're just like just
naturally occurring sensory beings. So when it comes to screens,
that is a large sensory experience that a child is having, right,
Like there's sounds, there's lights, there's a lot of movement happening.
They might be eating something, so that's adding oral input
(17:42):
into their visual experience. So when a child who has
sensory needs and is having this overstimulation happening, there's going
to be dysregulation and that dysregulation doesn't necessarily mean it's ADHD.
So what I like to tell parents is is screens
(18:03):
don't cause ADHD. Screens can make behaviors look like it's
ADHD when it's really not, especially when it's the case
of my child suddenly became like one hundred percent better
when the screen was removed. Obviously the child is going
to be better because you're removing a sensory input that
was causing overwhelmed there's obviously going to be improvement there.
(18:26):
And especially if that's the case, then you know, good
on you. You learn that your child is getting overwhelmed
by this, and now you can parent a little bit better.
But your question of how are screens impacting a child,
I would say that it's overwhelming them. It's I also
see the case of parents are busy. You know, they're working,
they're just doing like life's stuff, right, and a lot
(18:51):
of times they'll resort to the screen because how else
are they going to keep the child busy? And that's
no fault of them, right, They're all so trying to
get through their day to day, and then what else
are kids going to do? Kids are already in a
ton of activities, how many activities are you going to
put them in? Right, there's going to be like an
(19:12):
hour a day where they're just going to be completely
bored out of their minds. And that's why limits are
good screen time limits. But I think the better way
to be describing that is how do you get a
child to listen to the screen time limit? And what
I always tell parents is practice giving up the item.
(19:34):
So again, let's go back to our back to our access, attention,
sensory escape. Right when you pull the iPad away from
your child, the behavior that they're most likely going to
engage in is access behavior. They're going to tantrum, outbursts
and yell because they want access to the iPad again.
So tell the child when am I going to get
the IPEd again? Show them visually that, hey, look at
(19:56):
the calendar, this is when you're going to get the
iPad again. Add in a visual time for them to
see the countdown of when they get the iPad again.
That's helping them meet their need in a healthier way.
Instead of tantruming and screaming. They can look at the
visual timer and say, oh, I'll get my iPad again
here at this at this time. So practicing, and that's
also an example of redirection too, so practicing giving them
(20:18):
away and adding a way for them to receive their
need in a healthier way.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So I read one of the posts on your website
about the use of toys and the kids that have
a bunch of toys and you take away a few,
you can help with a child's I might I might
have misunderstood the actual the scientific logic behind it because
I don't quite understand it, But the idea of having
a child with a lot of toys, if you take
some of them away and limit their use of toys,
(20:45):
you can actually help them with that creativity and sort
of creative thinking. I was interested in that idea of Obviously,
we live in a society where consumption is a huge thing.
Children have basically every as we talked about technology, they
have access to all all these different options in terms
of toys and different stimuli. Could you speak to a
little bit about childhood creativity and the role of parents
(21:08):
in encouraging that and what they could tools and steps
they can use sort of encourage the child's creativity.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
My office is filled with toys and it's kind of
overloaded at times. So when kids come in, they're usually
bouncing around my office. I have a phone pit, I
have a basketball hoop, I have art stuff, I have
board games. It's a lot of options for kids, and
they're just like transitioning so fast before they really let
(21:35):
themselves experience onun toy or item in the first place.
So what I started doing was rotating out the toys
that I had. So I would keep a few away,
and I would keep a few there, and then once
I see children get a little bit tired of the
toys that I have, I'll switch them out and it
sparks some new joy again. But the idea is that
when children have fewer toys, they're more likely to engage
(21:58):
in imaginative play. You know, we want to create narratives,
we want experiment with different roles and using everyday objects
in inventive ways or not even objects, just like different
toys in different ways. Is how we get their brain working.
And this speaks also to the point of kids engaging
and imaginative play if we want them to develop the
(22:22):
skills that the parents want their child to have. Is
it also forces us to join and play with them.
Because when we join and play with their child, we
automatically add a layer of imagination that they're not used to,
and that's when the real magic happens. They start to
develop the ideas that my parents, that my parents has.
(22:42):
They start we start to model better, we can role
play better to teach these skills. And it's always surprises
me that you know, there's companies like Love every where
where they send those lay kids to to you know,
I'm sure you guys have heard of them, the mail
delivery kids, but and their marketing as this this developmental
(23:02):
tool for kids. But the real developmental tool is literally
parents playing with their kids. That's all it is. The
more the more toy, the more toys you have, the
more distraction that's there. But when you reduce that toy,
you can engage a little bit better. And that's that
idea there. There's also it's also studies that show that
(23:24):
open ended play like using blocks or art supplies fosters
things like cognitive flexibility and problem solving curiativity. So having
fewer toys also encourages children to explore their environment a
little bit more deeply, which is, you know, to that
point of I see kids moving around way too fast
and just develop a stronger attention span for the toys they.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Do have and changing gears a bit, right, Just a
question on how parents can address issues happening around them.
What I'm asking is especially impressionable when they turn twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
when they are slowly getting into the young adult phase.
(24:06):
How can parents explain what's happening, especially in today's political, economic,
social environment. Have you had any questions related to that?
And how good parents address that issue?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh? Wait, so I want to make sure I'm understanding
the question. Can you say that again? I want to
make sure I'm understanding.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yes, So, just how can parents explain situations like the
political landscape or social landscape that's happening currently in the US.
How can they translate that into something that kids can understand.
They're not one hundred person plugged into what adults are
going through. Plus at the same time, they're not kids anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah. Usually the big topics that parents ask me is like,
how do I talk about war with my child? How
do I talk about death and funerals? And how do
I talk about internet safety from predators? How I talk
about those things? And I tell parents to watch child
based content with your child? Like related to those topics.
(25:09):
And there's actually a really great resource on this. There's
a there's a company it's called a Kid's Book About.
They also have a podcast, it's called a Kid's Book
About Podcast. And what they do is they take these
big topics that parents don't know how to talk about.
And that's everything from environmental challenges and space and death
(25:33):
and healthy internet behaviors and strangers and you know, all
these like crazy and wild topics that we don't know
how to tell a child, but it's important for them
to know. I tell parents just go through their list
of resources and you know, just absorb the content with
your child. A ton of kids, a ton of kids
(25:56):
love reading. And if it's not that specific book or potsost,
I'll send books related to the themes that they want
to talk to their about their child. And then parents
will in their nighttime routine. What they're doing already is
they'll just read a book that touches on the themes,
and in that way, they're not addressing it explicitly, but
they are telling a story to help a child understand it,
(26:19):
and the way that is best for them, because if
you're going to just tell them one on one, like hey,
there's a new president coming in this and this is happening.
There's war going on, Like child is going to be like,
I don't know what that means, but if you put
it into their world, if you enter a child's world
through friendly child content that is already geared towards those
(26:41):
themes that you want to talk to your child about,
that's how you want to start giving that information.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, relevant, and it's relevant to them. So this gives
that association.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I was thinking about the context of the communication tools
that you've talked about, and it feels like making that
connection between the parent and a child and speaking to
the child in a way that they understand it at
the age group that they're at and the level they
understand it. That seems to be a crucial element of
what we're talking about. It seems to be giving the
context that the child understands helps them then grow from
(27:12):
that sort of standpoint. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah? And parents, you know, like parents are always learning,
Like that's the one thing that I just have seen,
like they're open to learn, they're willing to learn. I
have never had a parent that doesn't take my feedback
and I try and always give it in a healthy way,
and I'm saying like it's always in benefit for them.
And the other big point that I bring to parents
(27:36):
is when you can enter your child's world, you'll get
get much less friction. So if I'm telling a child
to put away all their toys, I'm immediately asking the
child to enter my adult world. But if I the
child is painting and there's blocks over there that I
need them to clean up, if I join in in
the me joining in on their world is just showing
(27:58):
my interest in what they're doing. I can ask them like,
what are you drawing? Or I can speak towards the
effort that they're engaging in, or I can provide information
to some action that they're engaging in, And that's me
entering their world. And just by doing five seconds of
showing my interest, I'm enter their world and now I
can say, hey, can you clean up those blocks? So
(28:19):
instead of thinking it in terms of acknowledging feelings, think
of it in terms of enter your child's world. And
now suddenly instead of saying, oh, I see you're having
a good time right now, which I know a lot
of parents don't. They just don't want to find themselves
repeatedly saying the same phrases. Think of it in terms
of enter your child's world, show interest, and then state
the task, and now suddenly you've built an emotional connection
(28:41):
without having to say, Hey, I see you're having a
good time right now, and now they're a lot more
likely to complete the task.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's a fascinating way of looking at it. You're flipping
the scripts a little bit in terms of rather than
being didactic and telling the child exactly what's to do,
you're sort of engaging with them within the context of
their own mind and what what they're engaged with. And
that's a great way to sort of phrase things. I
really appreciate that insight. So this has been a very
fight ranging conversation. I know we've touched on a bunch
(29:10):
of different topics right now. I'm just wondering if we
could sort of sum up the tools that we've talked
about today and some of the lessons learned. Do you
sort of give maybe like five or ten main points
that parents could take home from this conversation, Well, how
can they better engage with their young child and some
of the things that their child's experiencing.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, the biggest thing that you can start doing is
have some foundation to your parenting. And the foundation is
a really good way of doing that is start or
labeling your child's behavior. Is it attention, is it escape?
Is it sensory ac is it access behavior? So what
(29:51):
is that that's access, attention, sensory escape? Start labeling it
because if your child is engaging in sensory behavior and
you're tending to it on access, you're not going to
go anywhere. So just by the simple fact of labeling
the behavior, you're going to tend to it differently. These
labels are not only for negative behaviors, they're for positive
behaviors also, So that's one point if you want to
(30:14):
better understand your child, to start labeling the behaviors because
it's automatically going to change the way that you pair it.
The other thing is, if you're busy in showing that
one to two hours of constrat effort that it to
have that emotional connection with your child, just enter their world,
show interest what they're doing. Do that ten to fifty
times a day. You know it takes three seconds. Just
(30:36):
make a comment on what they're doing, seeing, hearing, wearing, eating,
point to something, and that's entering their world. And it
takes literally three seconds. The other thing is this is
more so on the on the parenting side rather than
really super child focus, and it's the accommodations. If you
feel like you're doing something that bothers you, you know,
talk about it with your partner and see how you
(30:59):
can start redoing, using, or removing that. But before that's done,
tell your child, hey, I see that your mom and
I have been doing this thing that hasn't really been
helping you. We know that we can do better, and
we know that you can do better too. And because
of that, every Saturday or Sunday, we're going to start
(31:19):
adding things to a calendar so that way on weekends
when you ask us what we're going to do today,
we're going to talk about the calendar. So you know,
it's we never have to jump into anything, but we
can start to add systems that remove and reduce the
unhelpful accommodations that we feel like we are doing. So
the labeling the behavior, showing the interest, and if something
(31:42):
bothers you, you can be systematic about removing or reducing it.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's fantastic. We really appreciate your time today. This has
been so enlightening.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
For me.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I've learned so much in just a short time talking
with you. We'd love to have another wide rangey episode
with you on different topics, and we always appreciate someone
with your expertise coming on and sharing the tools and
take comes with us. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, of course, thank you for having Thank you for
having me. I love talking about that. I can keep
going in forever. If parents do want their own questions answered,
I do have a newsletter on my website. It's completely free.
It's called a Parents Club and you parents can register
for it at edenbehavioralhealth dot com. It's just at the
(32:26):
bottom of the web page and every month we send
we answer parent questions and we send insights, actionable things
that parents can do and very relevant things.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Eadenbehavioral Health dot com.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, we have. We will include it in our in
the podcast episode link.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, we'll put a link right there so people can
click on it and learn more about eat and behavioral health.
Thank you so much again. This has been fantastic and
it's been really enlightening for us, So thank you again.
I can have
It is a question parents continually ask themselves, how can
I instill my children with confidence and support their emotional
well being. To help answer this question and provide parents
with guidance for today's uncertain world, is Kidiat Shah, the
founder and clinical director of EDEN Behavioral Health in Illinois.
We look forward to hearing your thoughts on this wide
(00:26):
ranging and engaging conversation. Kidia, great to meet you. Thank
you so much for making the time for us today.
Could you introduce Eden Health to us and gives a
little bit more about your background.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm a child therapist. I'm licensed in Illinois here in
the United States. I founded Eden Behavioral Health last year
and where our primary goal is to provide tailored solution
focusedcharacter children and adolescents, and we also work with some
young adults. My clinical background began in inpatient pediatric psychiatry
(00:57):
when I was working intensively with young kids who had
acute mental health needs, and after that I've I've specialized
in supporting children with autism, ADHD and intellectual disabilities, and
I've also served in various community mental health settings, so
in Chicago and West Garfield Park working with substance abuse.
(01:17):
That was a lot of the community work that I
did in my own community trying to adjus connect parents
and children to resources, and just the suburban area where
I live. And it's like the combination of these diverse
experiences has helped shape the collaborative approach that I take
in my own practice. It's super family centered that the
work that we do at Eaeden Behavioral Health it's super
(01:40):
solution focused because I want to make sure parents are
confident in the way that they are parenting their special
needs children. Because I always tell parents that special needs
children need special needs parenting, and I try and equip
them the strategies that they need to do that. And
you know, the reason I always take that family centered
approach is because, you know, we believe that when parents
and caregivers are actively involved, children feel more supported and
(02:04):
the therapeutic approach improves just so much more.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's fantastic. I love that the special needs approach. That's
a great way to phrase it. I'm wondering in your
clinical practice, when you meet parents for the first time
and they're coming to you for assistance, is there sort
of a misconception that you see quite often with us
thinking of new parents especially, but parents that have the
second or third child with exceptionalities? Is there a misconception
(02:29):
that you often see with parents?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I think a good way to explain this is the
story that the parents kind of find themselves through and
how that that starts. So when I get a call
from a parent or a parent just trying to schedule
an appointment with any with any child therapist, not just
with me, what's most likely happening is that there's school challenges,
their sensory issues. There's outbursts, tantrums, meltdowns there, they're struggling eating,
(02:59):
They're struggling with thingsnxiety, there's compulsive behaviors, there's impulsivity, and
they've read the books, they've looked at the blogs, but
the tools that they're doing that they've learned from those
resources aren't really working and they need a bit more
specialized care. So that's when they reach out to, you know,
ment health professional and they're like, Okay, let's we need
some help here to understand what's happening with our child
(03:20):
so we can we can best help them with me.
That's where my process is unique compared to a lot
of other mental health professionals, where the first appointment is
always parent only and we are just I'm collect My
goal is to collect as much background information as much
as possible. I want to understand everything that this child
(03:41):
is experiencing. I'm want to go through mental health symptoms.
I'm going to go through executive functioning. We're going to
try to even help label some of the behaviors that
the child is experiencing. And then with the parent, I
create treatment goals that touches on the concerns that they're
that they've come to me with ranges that could range
from a bunch of things. Right, if it's ADHD, which
is an executive functioning disorder, we go through, Okay, what
(04:03):
are the executive functioning deficits that are happening and what
goals can we create to start developing those executive functioning skills.
From then on, the child starts coming to me one
on one. I keep the parents updated, and as soon
as I start to understand the child's behavior within the appointments,
that's when I start giving parents the very step by
step things that they need to be doing at home
(04:25):
to emphasize on the work that we're doing in session.
When you see special needs, what things you see so
you know I've worked in a bunch of different areas now,
So I've worked in Chicago, I've worked in kind of
like the outskirts of the city, and I've worked in
very much suburban areas. So I've gotten to see quite
a mix of kids, and the interesting there is that
(04:48):
they all have their own unique challenges. So when I
was in Forest Park working in patient psychiatry, I was
seeing very high acuity kids, specifically their risk of harm
to others and risk of harm to self, Like there
was there was harm being done there, and that's at
the very high end of mental symptoms, and that's what
(05:09):
gets gets kids admitted into impatient in the first place.
So that's what I was seeing there. But since moving
to these suburbs and I'm in Hinsdale now where I practice,
and I used to practice in Naperville, the challenges that
I see there are different. It's not so much of
the risk of harm to sell for others. It's more
so school challenges. And you know, the risk of harm
(05:30):
to self and others does come with school challenges, but
the parents are more so focused on how do I
reduce kind of these like more mild to moderate behaviors
in a classroom, How do I kind of understand how
my child is thinking? How do I change my own parenting?
So the kids that I see now are I'm able
to help in an outpatient setting and that's usually ADHD
(05:52):
anxiety level one and level two autism. So yeah, that's
what I'm usually seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, the topic of anxiety, the CDE said that about
ten percent of children three to seventeen showing symptoms of
anxiety in a recent study. And I'm wondering, what is
the approach from a sort of tool's point of view
with a child that's experiencing anxiety, whether it's educational anxiety
or societyal anxiety. What is that initial approach or tools
(06:18):
that you would use for a child with anxiety.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I like to break down anxiety in two ways,
or actually we can kind of do it in three ways.
First is how can we can the anxiety be redirected.
If the anxiety can be redirected, I help the parent
label the behavior, and then we kind of redirect the
child to a coping skill and then with enough prompting,
the child can learn to emotionally regulate. The other way
(06:42):
we can do it is we take a look at
the parenting side, what are the unhelpful accommodations that the
parents are doing? And oftentimes kids are more aware of
the accommodations that their parents are doing, more so than
the parents even are. And I see that clearly when
I'm working with them, because when I do an accommodation removal plan,
I'm taking a look at the parenting behaviors that need
(07:04):
to be stopped or reduced to help the child start
to deal with this anxiety. And I always ask the kid.
I was like, hey, like, what do you feel like
your parents are doing in this certain situation? And they
give me such a longer list than compared to the
list that their parents sent me. And then there's the
other side of it where and this kind of go
gets into the obsessive compulsive disorder territory. Oh CD there,
(07:27):
and you know there's anxiety attached to that. It's a
unique type of anxiety characterized by obsessions and compulsions. Right,
Compulsions are just behaviors that we can't stop doing, and
it reduces the distress that's caused by the obsessive thought.
But with that, what we're going to do is we're
going to expose a child to higher and higher levels
(07:48):
of anxiety that's related to their obsessive thought, so that
they can start, you know, realizing that the response that
I have, which is this compulsive behavior is causing me
short term relief. And if I can understand that my
brain is causing noise in a situation that is not dangerous,
I can just like sit with that anxiety a little
(08:08):
bit longer, change my response and understand that I don't
listen to noise and I should be listening to signals,
which is my brain is telling me danger when there
is real danger, and not to noise, which is my
brain is saying danger when there is no danger.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
How does that when you see a child come in
with that level of anxiety, It must be interesting from
a step by step point of view to see them
from one appointment to the next when you're sort of,
as you said, you're sort of separating the anxiety, explaining
to them a little bit about what's causing that anxiety,
and then they get to realize that tangible relief. Is
there something that you would notice from one appointment to
(08:46):
the next. Is it sort of a six month twelve
month process?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Like?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
How does that work in terms of like a timeframe
for treating something like anxiety or something more complex like ADHD,
which obviously has interactive compos.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Well, every child is so so unique. If a child
comes in and they're on the very much the mild
side of things and their symptoms aren't really challenging them
on a day to day basis, I can teach the
parents some basic prompting and redirecting skills and usually in
six to eight months, the child is living a life
(09:22):
where they can regulate themselves a lot more. But if
a child is coming in and there are just tantrums
and meltdowns happening all the time at school and at home,
we need a more thorough plan at that point. We
need especially if things are happening at school, we need
to provide school resources, which usually come from an IP
or A five or four, which are just school resources
(09:44):
like extra time on a test or going to a
different room when they're feeling overwhelmed. Just resources to help
the kid at school. And when it comes to things
on the more severe side, where prompting isn't going to
help the child, that's when I see lasting into the year. Plus,
there's kids I'm that I've been seeing from the very
first day that I've started practicing. It's been probably close
(10:05):
to four years now, and they're kids that I've been
seeing for a good chunk of that time. The whole
goal here in that time is giving parents the foundation
so that when they are done with me working with
a child, they're able to handle all of the challenges
that comes with anxiety or ADHD without having to come
(10:28):
back to me. And of course, you know, they can
always come back to me, but I want them to
feel confident in what they can do and generalize the
skills across a variety of situations where they know they're
just confident in their own parenting abilities. So one of
the first things that I always start with, and this
is where a lot of my strategies start from, is
(10:49):
how do we label a child's behavior? And child's behaviors
usually fall into one of four categories, and that's access
to an item or the way something is done, so
process access behavior, So there's access. There's attention, which is
to a person or a group of people. That's access
as attention. Then there's sensory, so sensory behaviors, and the
(11:12):
common one with ASD or autism is the one that
people might often see as like the hand flapping. The
other sensory behaviors that kids might see is rubbing things
or pulling things, or appropriate sctive input, which is pressure.
And this could be avoidant behavior, or this could be
seeking behavior in terms of I like this sensory input,
(11:34):
and there's other behaviors that are I don't like the
sensory input. Then there's escape, which is the removal from
a task or situation. Let's put that in context of ADHD.
So let's say a child is in the classroom and
he keeps getting up from his desk to walk around.
Now a teacher is going to look at that child
and say, this child is defiant, He's not doing any
(11:57):
of the homework that I'm telling him to do. And
then the parents are going to look at it, well,
like are you teaching him properly? Like what's going? Is
he hungry? Like what? And then at the school is
just going to be sending emails and emails to the
parents and saying, hey, your kid keeps getting up from
the desk, can you can you please feed him? Can
you please let him give him some Outlet teach him
(12:19):
some regulation skills? But none of that is going to work.
If we don't know why the behavior is happening, Let's
go one by one. The child could be getting up
from his desk because of access. Maybe he's trying to
get something from his backpack that he needs. Maybe it's
even something to regulate him so he can complete the task,
but he ends up getting in trouble for it, and
then he never ends up getting the thing from his
(12:40):
bag in the first place. So that's access, right, And
if it's access, we wanted to provide a healthier way
of receiving his wants or needs. And that's what I
mean by redirecting behaviors, just giving the child a healthier
way of receiving their wants or needs. And then there's attention.
If is the child getting up from his desk because
(13:01):
he's trying to make people laugh. If that's the case,
then we should move his seat, don't let him sit
in the area where his friends are, have him sit
closer to the board, have him sit closer to the teacher.
That way, there's less behaviors related to the attention seeking.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Just just on that on that know is there is
there a sort of a risk that say you move
a child when the you know with their friends and
you moved into another place. Do you then do you
then risk the child saying becoming more oppositional for example,
do you do you then risk that? And then how
do you deal with that if the child? Do you
then explain to the child with doing this for this reason?
And how does that process evolve?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of telling the child what
we're doing. Okay, if the child is aware, that's just
so much better with what's happening. And I also asked, like,
why shouldn't a child be aware also in the in
the in the case of removing accommodations, if the child
doesn't know that the parent is to stop doing certain things,
(14:02):
the behavior is obviously going to increase. But to your
point though, of to your point though of is there
going to be some negative things happening because of this
resource that or intervention that we're putting on the child.
So there's this thing that happens where during any transition
period or when the external environment is changing, usually I
(14:25):
say six to eight weeks, it's sold an extinction burst.
And what that means is a child's negative behaviors will
increase during this transition period. But that's a temporary thing
that happens. It usually normalizes once the child is like, Okay,
the transition period is over. They've kind of been accustomed
(14:45):
to the new thing. And that's that's the one thing
that I've seen that really holds parents back is I
changed my behavior for it for the good, but my
child is getting worse. But we have to remember that
there's an extinction burst that is most likely going to happen,
and that we have to stay consistent with the parenting
behaviors so we can see the behaviors normalize.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Again.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I really appreciate you explaining that because from a child's
point of view, trying to understand the logic of these
sort of actions, it must be interesting for them to
sort of go through that process. And then, as you said,
the parents is saying, well, hang on a second, my
child is not improving. They're getting worse from this behavioral standpoint.
So I really appreciate you explaining the science behind the process.
And that's really an interesting way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, you know, a lot of the work with kids
is educating them. The majority of the work during sessions
is with the child, but I also have to remember
that the parents are my patient. It's just as much
as the child is at the end of the day.
The parents are the one who are going to be
making the changes that they need for the child. Going
back to that child who's getting up from his desk.
(15:52):
If the child is getting up from his desk to
fulfill some sensory need in his legs because of hyperactivity,
I'm going to teach the parents, Hey, when he's at home,
give him some stretches or some activity that he can
do so he can get this energy out of his
leg so that when he's in school he's able to
focus a bit more. Or if it's escape behavior from
(16:12):
a task, and you know, is he struggling with reading
or writing, does he have dysgraphia or dyslexia, Does he
have issues with his hands, does like fine motor issues?
What is leading to that escape behavior? And the parents
are the ones who are going to be practicing, you know,
do they need to do some occupational therapy at home
to improve the fine motor skills so that the child
(16:34):
can finally sit down and not escape the task that
the teacher is giving. So, you know, the parents are
the ones who are implementing the interventions that I'm telling
them to do.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I was also wondering. We speak a lot on this
podcast about the role of technology and society in general.
I'm just wondering whether the role of cell phones and
sort of distractions from technology, whether that has any impact
on a child psychology. And what you've noticed just from
your general day to day experiences with your clinical practice.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, across the board, when screens are reduced or removed,
there is improvement in a child's behavior. And you know,
there's this other question that I get to is do
screens cause something like ADHD? And that is that is
very much not the case. I like put it in
context of senses, your sense like a sensory based person.
(17:22):
We're all sensory based humans, right, We're just like just
naturally occurring sensory beings. So when it comes to screens,
that is a large sensory experience that a child is having, right,
Like there's sounds, there's lights, there's a lot of movement happening.
They might be eating something, so that's adding oral input
(17:42):
into their visual experience. So when a child who has
sensory needs and is having this overstimulation happening, there's going
to be dysregulation and that dysregulation doesn't necessarily mean it's ADHD.
So what I like to tell parents is is screens
(18:03):
don't cause ADHD. Screens can make behaviors look like it's
ADHD when it's really not, especially when it's the case
of my child suddenly became like one hundred percent better
when the screen was removed. Obviously the child is going
to be better because you're removing a sensory input that
was causing overwhelmed there's obviously going to be improvement there.
(18:26):
And especially if that's the case, then you know, good
on you. You learn that your child is getting overwhelmed
by this, and now you can parent a little bit better.
But your question of how are screens impacting a child,
I would say that it's overwhelming them. It's I also
see the case of parents are busy. You know, they're working,
they're just doing like life's stuff, right, and a lot
(18:51):
of times they'll resort to the screen because how else
are they going to keep the child busy? And that's
no fault of them, right, They're all so trying to
get through their day to day, and then what else
are kids going to do? Kids are already in a
ton of activities, how many activities are you going to
put them in? Right, there's going to be like an
(19:12):
hour a day where they're just going to be completely
bored out of their minds. And that's why limits are
good screen time limits. But I think the better way
to be describing that is how do you get a
child to listen to the screen time limit? And what
I always tell parents is practice giving up the item.
(19:34):
So again, let's go back to our back to our access, attention,
sensory escape. Right when you pull the iPad away from
your child, the behavior that they're most likely going to
engage in is access behavior. They're going to tantrum, outbursts
and yell because they want access to the iPad again.
So tell the child when am I going to get
the IPEd again? Show them visually that, hey, look at
(19:56):
the calendar, this is when you're going to get the
iPad again. Add in a visual time for them to
see the countdown of when they get the iPad again.
That's helping them meet their need in a healthier way.
Instead of tantruming and screaming. They can look at the
visual timer and say, oh, I'll get my iPad again
here at this at this time. So practicing, and that's
also an example of redirection too, so practicing giving them
(20:18):
away and adding a way for them to receive their
need in a healthier way.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So I read one of the posts on your website
about the use of toys and the kids that have
a bunch of toys and you take away a few,
you can help with a child's I might I might
have misunderstood the actual the scientific logic behind it because
I don't quite understand it, But the idea of having
a child with a lot of toys, if you take
some of them away and limit their use of toys,
(20:45):
you can actually help them with that creativity and sort
of creative thinking. I was interested in that idea of Obviously,
we live in a society where consumption is a huge thing.
Children have basically every as we talked about technology, they
have access to all all these different options in terms
of toys and different stimuli. Could you speak to a
little bit about childhood creativity and the role of parents
(21:08):
in encouraging that and what they could tools and steps
they can use sort of encourage the child's creativity.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
My office is filled with toys and it's kind of
overloaded at times. So when kids come in, they're usually
bouncing around my office. I have a phone pit, I
have a basketball hoop, I have art stuff, I have
board games. It's a lot of options for kids, and
they're just like transitioning so fast before they really let
(21:35):
themselves experience onun toy or item in the first place.
So what I started doing was rotating out the toys
that I had. So I would keep a few away,
and I would keep a few there, and then once
I see children get a little bit tired of the
toys that I have, I'll switch them out and it
sparks some new joy again. But the idea is that
when children have fewer toys, they're more likely to engage
(21:58):
in imaginative play. You know, we want to create narratives,
we want experiment with different roles and using everyday objects
in inventive ways or not even objects, just like different
toys in different ways. Is how we get their brain working.
And this speaks also to the point of kids engaging
and imaginative play if we want them to develop the
(22:22):
skills that the parents want their child to have. Is
it also forces us to join and play with them.
Because when we join and play with their child, we
automatically add a layer of imagination that they're not used to,
and that's when the real magic happens. They start to
develop the ideas that my parents, that my parents has.
(22:42):
They start we start to model better, we can role
play better to teach these skills. And it's always surprises
me that you know, there's companies like Love every where
where they send those lay kids to to you know,
I'm sure you guys have heard of them, the mail
delivery kids, but and their marketing as this this developmental
(23:02):
tool for kids. But the real developmental tool is literally
parents playing with their kids. That's all it is. The
more the more toy, the more toys you have, the
more distraction that's there. But when you reduce that toy,
you can engage a little bit better. And that's that
idea there. There's also it's also studies that show that
(23:24):
open ended play like using blocks or art supplies fosters
things like cognitive flexibility and problem solving curiativity. So having
fewer toys also encourages children to explore their environment a
little bit more deeply, which is, you know, to that
point of I see kids moving around way too fast
and just develop a stronger attention span for the toys they.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Do have and changing gears a bit, right, Just a
question on how parents can address issues happening around them.
What I'm asking is especially impressionable when they turn twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
when they are slowly getting into the young adult phase.
(24:06):
How can parents explain what's happening, especially in today's political, economic,
social environment. Have you had any questions related to that?
And how good parents address that issue?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh? Wait, so I want to make sure I'm understanding
the question. Can you say that again? I want to
make sure I'm understanding.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yes, So, just how can parents explain situations like the
political landscape or social landscape that's happening currently in the US.
How can they translate that into something that kids can understand.
They're not one hundred person plugged into what adults are
going through. Plus at the same time, they're not kids anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah. Usually the big topics that parents ask me is like,
how do I talk about war with my child? How
do I talk about death and funerals? And how do
I talk about internet safety from predators? How I talk
about those things? And I tell parents to watch child
based content with your child? Like related to those topics.
(25:09):
And there's actually a really great resource on this. There's
a there's a company it's called a Kid's Book About.
They also have a podcast, it's called a Kid's Book
About Podcast. And what they do is they take these
big topics that parents don't know how to talk about.
And that's everything from environmental challenges and space and death
(25:33):
and healthy internet behaviors and strangers and you know, all
these like crazy and wild topics that we don't know
how to tell a child, but it's important for them
to know. I tell parents just go through their list
of resources and you know, just absorb the content with
your child. A ton of kids, a ton of kids
(25:56):
love reading. And if it's not that specific book or potsost,
I'll send books related to the themes that they want
to talk to their about their child. And then parents
will in their nighttime routine. What they're doing already is
they'll just read a book that touches on the themes,
and in that way, they're not addressing it explicitly, but
they are telling a story to help a child understand it,
(26:19):
and the way that is best for them, because if
you're going to just tell them one on one, like hey,
there's a new president coming in this and this is happening.
There's war going on, Like child is going to be like,
I don't know what that means, but if you put
it into their world, if you enter a child's world
through friendly child content that is already geared towards those
(26:41):
themes that you want to talk to your child about,
that's how you want to start giving that information.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, relevant, and it's relevant to them. So this gives
that association.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I was thinking about the context of the communication tools
that you've talked about, and it feels like making that
connection between the parent and a child and speaking to
the child in a way that they understand it at
the age group that they're at and the level they
understand it. That seems to be a crucial element of
what we're talking about. It seems to be giving the
context that the child understands helps them then grow from
(27:12):
that sort of standpoint. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah? And parents, you know, like parents are always learning,
Like that's the one thing that I just have seen,
like they're open to learn, they're willing to learn. I
have never had a parent that doesn't take my feedback
and I try and always give it in a healthy way,
and I'm saying like it's always in benefit for them.
And the other big point that I bring to parents
(27:36):
is when you can enter your child's world, you'll get
get much less friction. So if I'm telling a child
to put away all their toys, I'm immediately asking the
child to enter my adult world. But if I the
child is painting and there's blocks over there that I
need them to clean up, if I join in in
the me joining in on their world is just showing
(27:58):
my interest in what they're doing. I can ask them like,
what are you drawing? Or I can speak towards the
effort that they're engaging in, or I can provide information
to some action that they're engaging in, And that's me
entering their world. And just by doing five seconds of
showing my interest, I'm enter their world and now I
can say, hey, can you clean up those blocks? So
(28:19):
instead of thinking it in terms of acknowledging feelings, think
of it in terms of enter your child's world. And
now suddenly instead of saying, oh, I see you're having
a good time right now, which I know a lot
of parents don't. They just don't want to find themselves
repeatedly saying the same phrases. Think of it in terms
of enter your child's world, show interest, and then state
the task, and now suddenly you've built an emotional connection
(28:41):
without having to say, Hey, I see you're having a
good time right now, and now they're a lot more
likely to complete the task.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's a fascinating way of looking at it. You're flipping
the scripts a little bit in terms of rather than
being didactic and telling the child exactly what's to do,
you're sort of engaging with them within the context of
their own mind and what what they're engaged with. And
that's a great way to sort of phrase things. I
really appreciate that insight. So this has been a very
fight ranging conversation. I know we've touched on a bunch
(29:10):
of different topics right now. I'm just wondering if we
could sort of sum up the tools that we've talked
about today and some of the lessons learned. Do you
sort of give maybe like five or ten main points
that parents could take home from this conversation, Well, how
can they better engage with their young child and some
of the things that their child's experiencing.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, the biggest thing that you can start doing is
have some foundation to your parenting. And the foundation is
a really good way of doing that is start or
labeling your child's behavior. Is it attention, is it escape?
Is it sensory ac is it access behavior? So what
(29:51):
is that that's access, attention, sensory escape? Start labeling it
because if your child is engaging in sensory behavior and
you're tending to it on access, you're not going to
go anywhere. So just by the simple fact of labeling
the behavior, you're going to tend to it differently. These
labels are not only for negative behaviors, they're for positive
behaviors also, So that's one point if you want to
(30:14):
better understand your child, to start labeling the behaviors because
it's automatically going to change the way that you pair it.
The other thing is, if you're busy in showing that
one to two hours of constrat effort that it to
have that emotional connection with your child, just enter their world,
show interest what they're doing. Do that ten to fifty
times a day. You know it takes three seconds. Just
(30:36):
make a comment on what they're doing, seeing, hearing, wearing, eating,
point to something, and that's entering their world. And it
takes literally three seconds. The other thing is this is
more so on the on the parenting side rather than
really super child focus, and it's the accommodations. If you
feel like you're doing something that bothers you, you know,
talk about it with your partner and see how you
(30:59):
can start redoing, using, or removing that. But before that's done,
tell your child, hey, I see that your mom and
I have been doing this thing that hasn't really been
helping you. We know that we can do better, and
we know that you can do better too. And because
of that, every Saturday or Sunday, we're going to start
(31:19):
adding things to a calendar so that way on weekends
when you ask us what we're going to do today,
we're going to talk about the calendar. So you know,
it's we never have to jump into anything, but we
can start to add systems that remove and reduce the
unhelpful accommodations that we feel like we are doing. So
the labeling the behavior, showing the interest, and if something
(31:42):
bothers you, you can be systematic about removing or reducing it.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's fantastic. We really appreciate your time today. This has
been so enlightening.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
For me.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I've learned so much in just a short time talking
with you. We'd love to have another wide rangey episode
with you on different topics, and we always appreciate someone
with your expertise coming on and sharing the tools and
take comes with us. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, of course, thank you for having Thank you for
having me. I love talking about that. I can keep
going in forever. If parents do want their own questions answered,
I do have a newsletter on my website. It's completely free.
It's called a Parents Club and you parents can register
for it at edenbehavioralhealth dot com. It's just at the
(32:26):
bottom of the web page and every month we send
we answer parent questions and we send insights, actionable things
that parents can do and very relevant things.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Eadenbehavioral Health dot com.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, we have. We will include it in our in
the podcast episode link.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, we'll put a link right there so people can
click on it and learn more about eat and behavioral health.
Thank you so much again. This has been fantastic and
it's been really enlightening for us, So thank you again.
I can have
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