August 5, 2025 • 20 mins
In this essential episode, we dive deep into the mental health challenges facing today's workforce. From the anxiety that creeps in during Monday morning meetings to the burnout that builds over months of overwhelming demands, workplace stress has become a defining issue of our time.
We speak with Dr. Ethan Levine to explore the psychological toll of return-to-office mandates, examine why work-life balance feels more elusive than ever, and discuss practical strategies for protecting your mental health while advancing your career. Whether you're struggling with impostor syndrome, dealing with toxic workplace dynamics, or simply trying to find breathing room in an always-on culture, this conversation offers both validation and actionable insights.
Join us as we break down the stigma around workplace mental health and empower listeners to prioritize their wellbeing without sacrificing professional success.
We speak with Dr. Ethan Levine to explore the psychological toll of return-to-office mandates, examine why work-life balance feels more elusive than ever, and discuss practical strategies for protecting your mental health while advancing your career. Whether you're struggling with impostor syndrome, dealing with toxic workplace dynamics, or simply trying to find breathing room in an always-on culture, this conversation offers both validation and actionable insights.
Join us as we break down the stigma around workplace mental health and empower listeners to prioritize their wellbeing without sacrificing professional success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
How do we create psychologically safe workspaces where employees truly thrive?
What can we do to recognize the science of workplace
burnout in ourselves and our colleagues? And how can organizations
move forward beyond surface level wellness programs to create lasting change.
These questions are more critical than ever as workplace stress
(00:28):
continues to rise and the majority of working age Americans
say they're experiencing workplace burnout. Today, on the Mental Wealth Podcast,
we're speaking with behavioral psychologist Dr Ethan Levine, whose groundbreaking
research has had a profound effect on individuals and workplaces
across the country. Doctor Levine brings decades of experience bridging
(00:48):
the gap between psychological science and practical workplace solutions. Doctor Levine,
how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm doing great, And Rob and mccorn thank you so
much for having me back.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
The reason why we sort of it came up with
this topic for you. I think it's an important one
that a lot of people are discussing these days. I
read a stat that sixty six percent of the American
working population experiencing workplace burnout. As you know, a lot
of people have a five to nine. After the nine
to five, they're trying to make as much money as
possible in a difficult economy, and I'd like to start
(01:20):
event if I can. I'm just wondering if you could
provide the signs that they should look out for on
an individual basis that may be overextending themselves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'd like to also share you before I answer the question,
my perspective on why it's gotten worse. I think that
COVID did significant damage to employees and employers because all
of a sudden, employees, some people were out of jobs.
(01:50):
Most people were ending up in situations where they couldn't
go in their workplace, so they weren't getting the support.
So it's almost like toxic shock having to go back
to a routine that they had adapted to in some way,
shape or form. And I hear over and over people
are finding this really difficult, and from an employer perspective,
(02:14):
they're finding that people don't want to go back. You know,
they are willing to come in two days, three days
a week, but they want to be home. They want
they have had some degree of that life balance for
a period of time, and you know, the circumstances weren't great,
but they discovered their spouses, their families, their kids, their hobbies,
(02:35):
and now you took it away from me again. So
I think that on some level contributes to the burnout.
You know, as for the signs, we're the last to know.
The people around us will know before we do. As
a person who has experienced burnout was earlier in my career,
some of the things that I saw in me and
(02:57):
I observe in others. I had a job where I
was working partly in the school system, but it was
a contract, so I'd find myself driving there and I'd
drive right past the place, keep going for another fifteen minutes,
and then turn around and come back because I have
a sense of responsibility. People find they're sleeping too much,
(03:18):
not enough. It's disrupted sleep. Interpersonal relations get messed up,
people are on edge. They find they react to things.
What I hear more often than anything else is people
get to the weekend and they can't get themselves to
do the basic chores. I have to clean the house,
(03:39):
well they let that go. I have to get some groceries, Well,
maybe I can make do with what we have.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So the immediate sign is the lack of energy. But
what you're saying is the people around you are more
likely to notice the symptoms and the science before you WI. Yeah,
so it's almost like you've got to have feedback from
that network around you, and then that can be the
impetus to make a change of maybe sort of think
about things a little differently. I'd like to get into
the idea of guilt for employees in the workplace. What
(04:07):
can someone do if they feel guilty for not taking
on extra work? Maybe the employer is asking a lot
of them and they don't want to say no. What
can they do in that kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I can give you several different perspectives on it.
You know, a lot has to do with how you're feeling.
If you're feeling this sense of I'm not competent to
do the job in that situation, it's important to whether
it's getting coaching, counseling, if you happen to have a
(04:37):
boss who is supporter, or an employee assistance program or
some way. If you're not feeling competent, that's an internal
to me issue. It becomes perpetuated because you know, the
workplace is overburdened with too much to do, not enough
people to do it. The flip side of it, and
(04:58):
I'm speaking in my own situation. I feel like I'm
really good at what I do, but that doesn't eliminate
the possibility that my boss will come to me with three, four, five,
ten things that they want done. And my personal strategy
has always been to say, you know, I can handle
(05:20):
three things. Here's the ten things you've asked me to do.
Right now, you pick, I'll do any of those three things.
It doesn't matter which ones you choose. Happy to do them,
but I can only do three right now. We can
revisit this when those are done, pick another three. That way,
you assert some control over the situation, yet you still
(05:40):
allow your manager to have the sense that they're directing
you know what's the highest priority, because the truth is
a lot of times we don't know. You know, I
might think just because something's urgent doesn't mean it's most important.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right. How do you handle a situation when your superior
comes and says I need everything done?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, I in that situation, I'd say, of course, I
want to do everything. In fact, I want to exceed
your expectations. I just need a sense of what's the priority,
because clearly neither you nor I can do ten things
at once or certainly do not do them well. So
which is the most important to you to have done
(06:21):
for whatever the reason? Tell me I need direction about
what's most important, and then let's go through it. If
your boss is collegial in that regard, or if you
have an external consultant of somebody whether they're internal to
the company to help with that process. The way you
do prioritization, it's very simple. You say, right, here's two things.
(06:43):
Which one of these is more important? You say, this one, okay,
then let's take thing two and think three, Which are those.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Is most important?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So they picked one of those, and if they picked
the one that was second the first time, then you
know that's more important. But if they pick the other one,
then you go back to the first item and say,
all right, let's look at those two pick one, and
you can gradually, you know, it takes a period of time,
but you can create a list because you've matched two
(07:14):
things against each other and you or your boss can
pick one. Eventually you have the full list of what's
the order in which I should do things.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I like that because you're you're keeping the hierarchy of
the company intact. While maintaining your own personal hierarchy, what
your prioritize, and what your boss wants to prioritize too.
I really like that idea. Keep the structure in place.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, and you're not being confrontational. You're partnering, you know,
with your boss or and with the company to assure
the highest priorities are taken care of first. So everybody wins,
and you know, and the key behind it is burnout
and that sense of you know, I'm a failure. I
can't do it comes from here's ten things I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Do it well. None of us can do ten at one.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Absolutely. There's the idea of the workplace and the stress
that builds up in people. There's a tension there now
in a lot of workplaces, as you said, people that
have been told that they have to come to work
after working from home during COVID and the transition that
takes place. I'm wondering if you could speak to what
an employee can do to better manage that workplace conflict.
(08:23):
Maybe they've got a boss or another fellow employee that
they have issues with, they have communications issue with. Is
there anything that you can tell them in terms of
a tangible approach to dealing with conflict at work and
maybe some things that are mistakes that people often make
and trying to sort of approach the issue head on.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
To me, the simplest thing is you focus on the task.
When you focus on the person, that's where you get
in trouble. It's really that simple. It's just this is
about the task. You know. I know you and I
have different perspectives, but let's talk about how we approach
getting this done. Because you, if it's a fellow employee,
and I both want to please our boss or our bosses,
(09:05):
so it's in both of our best interests to get
the task done. Let's create a plan so that we
get it done. And I'm not being unrealistic in the
sense we all know that some people you get along
with better than others some people you work with. Part
of that is the personal journey. I think it's very
important for people to have self awareness. For me being
(09:28):
completely transparent, and my colleagues know this, I'm not detailer.
I'm very good at future thinking, I'm very good at
big picture. I'm very good at putting together puzzles sometimes
that nobody else sees. But if you give me an
endless series of tasks that involve detail, and you're making
a mistake because I'm not going to be good at it.
(09:50):
So for me in a leadership role, what I'm always
seeking to do is partner with people or hire people
that have what I don't have that they're better at
those things than I am. I always try to hire
people that are better than me, because then I know
the outcome is going to be the best possible for
the individuals and for the company. But really it's very simple.
(10:13):
Make it about the task, not about the person.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I love that advice because it's, like you said, it's
very direct and it's very straightforward. But they can focus.
It sort of gives them a sense of control. They
don't have to think about the external. They can focus
on the internal, and that's really great. There's the other
side of that is sort of maintaining motivation while you're
dealing with that kind of negative influence. Is there a
step that you think that individuals can take to maintain
that internal motivation or is that something they're going to
(10:39):
have to develop individually.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Well, it's both.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Obviously, we have to be honest with ourselves about what
makes us feel good about us and if I'm doing
the things that make me feel good about me, you know,
then I have that internal.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Motivation to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
There's a simple little psychological technique that I know people
about that seems to be effective.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
When the other when that dust around you, you know, all.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
That external stuff, the stimulus is getting your wigh. Take
a minute, and it really doesn't take more than a minute,
and you think about whatever that noise is. Shut your eyes,
imagine the noise as a cloud, and when the wind blows,
just visualize the cloud going away and then come back
to work. And the nice thing it's not pharmaceutical, it's uh,
(11:32):
you know, it's completely something you can do as many
times as you want, and you just recognize when it's
becoming too much background noise and just let it go,
literally let it go. I think I may have said
this to you in a prior podcast that that works
for headaches as well. If you if you get a headache,
you know, visualize it in the cloud. Imagine it floating away.
(11:55):
Your headache will go away if you can try that,
or pain, it'll go away. It's aim with that background
noise at work, you know. Being honest, I mean there's
individuals in my own workplace that I struggle more to
work with, but again, focus on the task, and I
really work hard not to take what they may say
(12:17):
as personal. And I think that's where people get in trouble,
the fact that somebody uses a voice tone they don't
like the fact that somebody doesn't recognize so that I'm
nine months pregnant and might need, you know, a minute
break to step away. You know, it's just if you
personalize it, then you end up more stressed and then
(12:39):
the situation gets worse. So if you need to step out,
I can go outside for a minute, just you know,
the bathroom historically has been a wonderful place for people
to get away from it. You know, you go in
there and people are generally not going to be following
you in with information or work tasks.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Is going for the bathroom to refit a little bit.
To take it from that, What you just said about
how your manage communicates with you brings me to my
next question the management HR side of things for communicating
with employees. Let's say that are going through some sort
of behavioral health issue. Is there signs that managers can
recognize among employees that maybe they need maybe an amor
(13:20):
on the shoulder a little bit more supportant.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
There's a saying that I love and this is my
leadership style. But I didn't get it from me. I
got it from a guy who I admire tremendously says,
people don't care how much you know until they know
how much you care. So it's a constant management style,
which means at the times when people are going through stress,
(13:43):
they're very comfortable coming to you and talking about it.
When as a leader, as a manager, the things I
look for something different, Something changes. They arrive later, they
seem to be staring off into space, they're flushed, their
voice tone is different, the quality of the work is different.
I will always then say come on, let's let's go
(14:06):
have lunch together, or let's go for a walk together.
And you know, there'm I always phrase it as I
might be wrong. You know, I might be wrong because
you don't want to be accusatory in that situation for
a lot of different reasons.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So I might be wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
But here's what I notice, And if you're comfortable, I'd
love to be able to help you if my help.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Would be of value.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's ecally. I love that approach. It's very sort of
open to starting the conversation and then it leaves it
to employee to then say more about what's going on.
It sort of starts the conversation. That's the important pot.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's a well researched technique called appreciative inquiry, and that's
a way. You can google it, you can look it up,
and it's a way to have those kinds of conversations
where you're showing appreciation for the person and you're gently
inquiring to try to get them to tell what whatever
(15:00):
their story is.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I just wanted to get into the idea of an
employee that starts at a new workplace, but they've been
through a stressful event, maybe they were fired and maybe
difficult circumstances from a previous job. Are there any steps
that an employee can take before they start this new
role to allow themselves to have a renewed focus and
renewed take on the workplace that they don't want to
take those old stresses to the new environment.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Well, I can answer that one personally. I lost the
job once, you know, I got let go, and it
was I found out within thirty minutes of finding out
that I was going to be a father for the
first time, So that was a relatively stressful hour, and
it would be really easy to be upset, you know,
in lots of different ways, you know, to be excited
(15:48):
and upset and stressed. My takeaway what I learned from
it is, rather than brushing off what had happened, I
think it's important to not rush into.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What you're about to do. You know, you have practical reasons.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You need income, obviously, but to think about what could
I have done differently? You know, sometimes you did nothing,
or the company hired a new president to change this,
and this and this, and I was in a different
layoff situation. I had to let seventeen people go, including myself,
But that just was strictly because they changed their direction.
(16:29):
So there's nothing much to learn there. But if it
is associated in some way with your own behavior, the
best approach is to say, what is it? What could
I do differently so that that kind of thing would
not have happened. And in that particular situation where I
found out I was being a dad, I actually uncovered
something about my own behavior that has proven invaluable and
(16:54):
future jobs. Because I'm a different person, I handle the
exact same kind of situation very differently because I was Look,
we all screw up. Sometimes, we all do things that Gee,
I wish I could have done that differently. Well, you
can't in the future. You can't in the past. To
just give yourself a break and figure out what it
(17:16):
is and then do something different for the future.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That's the best advice for me.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I can't even imagine that the stress of that situation
finding out you're a father. From that, that must have
been and you seem to have come out with it
with the right attitude from it, so it seems to
have worked out for the best. But I can't even
imagine how much stress that must have.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I'll share one other detail there, which you might
find interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I don't know why, but I had the peace of
mind to.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Say, well, what's the issue right now, And the issue
is I'm going to be a dad. I need a job,
and I could focus on the thing that I'm upset about.
But I gave myself permission to be upset once I
got my next job, and within thirty days I had
one of the most intriguing jobs I've ever had in
(18:04):
my life. I got hired by a culinary institute to
design a training program to teach chefs how to manage people.
Chefs and I how to cook. Chefs don't know how
to manage people. And that was thirty days after I
had lost that other job. I applied to you laugh.
I applied to five hundred jobs the next week after
(18:25):
it happened, because I needed a job. Now, if i'd
gotten multiple opportunities, I could select what's the best fit,
what's most interesting, but the bottom lines, I needed a job.
So at the point where I got that other one,
I said, you know what, didn't matter. It happened, I learned,
I'm moving on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That is an an unbelievable approach to it. And again
I can't imagine that stressful situation, but it seems like
it worked out really well. This concludes our initial conversation
with doctor Levine. Thank you so much for listening. Your
time and support means so much to our entire team.
In our next recording, we're introducing a new addition to
(19:05):
our podcast, Questions from You the listener, listening as Doctor
Levine answers your workplace mental health questions
How do we create psychologically safe workspaces where employees truly thrive?
What can we do to recognize the science of workplace
burnout in ourselves and our colleagues? And how can organizations
move forward beyond surface level wellness programs to create lasting change.
These questions are more critical than ever as workplace stress
(00:28):
continues to rise and the majority of working age Americans
say they're experiencing workplace burnout. Today, on the Mental Wealth Podcast,
we're speaking with behavioral psychologist Dr Ethan Levine, whose groundbreaking
research has had a profound effect on individuals and workplaces
across the country. Doctor Levine brings decades of experience bridging
(00:48):
the gap between psychological science and practical workplace solutions. Doctor Levine,
how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm doing great, And Rob and mccorn thank you so
much for having me back.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
The reason why we sort of it came up with
this topic for you. I think it's an important one
that a lot of people are discussing these days. I
read a stat that sixty six percent of the American
working population experiencing workplace burnout. As you know, a lot
of people have a five to nine. After the nine
to five, they're trying to make as much money as
possible in a difficult economy, and I'd like to start
(01:20):
event if I can. I'm just wondering if you could
provide the signs that they should look out for on
an individual basis that may be overextending themselves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'd like to also share you before I answer the question,
my perspective on why it's gotten worse. I think that
COVID did significant damage to employees and employers because all
of a sudden, employees, some people were out of jobs.
(01:50):
Most people were ending up in situations where they couldn't
go in their workplace, so they weren't getting the support.
So it's almost like toxic shock having to go back
to a routine that they had adapted to in some way,
shape or form. And I hear over and over people
are finding this really difficult, and from an employer perspective,
(02:14):
they're finding that people don't want to go back. You know,
they are willing to come in two days, three days
a week, but they want to be home. They want
they have had some degree of that life balance for
a period of time, and you know, the circumstances weren't great,
but they discovered their spouses, their families, their kids, their hobbies,
(02:35):
and now you took it away from me again. So
I think that on some level contributes to the burnout.
You know, as for the signs, we're the last to know.
The people around us will know before we do. As
a person who has experienced burnout was earlier in my career,
some of the things that I saw in me and
(02:57):
I observe in others. I had a job where I
was working partly in the school system, but it was
a contract, so I'd find myself driving there and I'd
drive right past the place, keep going for another fifteen minutes,
and then turn around and come back because I have
a sense of responsibility. People find they're sleeping too much,
(03:18):
not enough. It's disrupted sleep. Interpersonal relations get messed up,
people are on edge. They find they react to things.
What I hear more often than anything else is people
get to the weekend and they can't get themselves to
do the basic chores. I have to clean the house,
(03:39):
well they let that go. I have to get some groceries, Well,
maybe I can make do with what we have.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So the immediate sign is the lack of energy. But
what you're saying is the people around you are more
likely to notice the symptoms and the science before you WI. Yeah,
so it's almost like you've got to have feedback from
that network around you, and then that can be the
impetus to make a change of maybe sort of think
about things a little differently. I'd like to get into
the idea of guilt for employees in the workplace. What
(04:07):
can someone do if they feel guilty for not taking
on extra work? Maybe the employer is asking a lot
of them and they don't want to say no. What
can they do in that kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I can give you several different perspectives on it.
You know, a lot has to do with how you're feeling.
If you're feeling this sense of I'm not competent to
do the job in that situation, it's important to whether
it's getting coaching, counseling, if you happen to have a
(04:37):
boss who is supporter, or an employee assistance program or
some way. If you're not feeling competent, that's an internal
to me issue. It becomes perpetuated because you know, the
workplace is overburdened with too much to do, not enough
people to do it. The flip side of it, and
(04:58):
I'm speaking in my own situation. I feel like I'm
really good at what I do, but that doesn't eliminate
the possibility that my boss will come to me with three, four, five,
ten things that they want done. And my personal strategy
has always been to say, you know, I can handle
(05:20):
three things. Here's the ten things you've asked me to do.
Right now, you pick, I'll do any of those three things.
It doesn't matter which ones you choose. Happy to do them,
but I can only do three right now. We can
revisit this when those are done, pick another three. That way,
you assert some control over the situation, yet you still
(05:40):
allow your manager to have the sense that they're directing
you know what's the highest priority, because the truth is
a lot of times we don't know. You know, I
might think just because something's urgent doesn't mean it's most important.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right. How do you handle a situation when your superior
comes and says I need everything done?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, I in that situation, I'd say, of course, I
want to do everything. In fact, I want to exceed
your expectations. I just need a sense of what's the priority,
because clearly neither you nor I can do ten things
at once or certainly do not do them well. So
which is the most important to you to have done
(06:21):
for whatever the reason? Tell me I need direction about
what's most important, and then let's go through it. If
your boss is collegial in that regard, or if you
have an external consultant of somebody whether they're internal to
the company to help with that process. The way you
do prioritization, it's very simple. You say, right, here's two things.
(06:43):
Which one of these is more important? You say, this one, okay,
then let's take thing two and think three, Which are those.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Is most important?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So they picked one of those, and if they picked
the one that was second the first time, then you
know that's more important. But if they pick the other one,
then you go back to the first item and say,
all right, let's look at those two pick one, and
you can gradually, you know, it takes a period of time,
but you can create a list because you've matched two
(07:14):
things against each other and you or your boss can
pick one. Eventually you have the full list of what's
the order in which I should do things.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I like that because you're you're keeping the hierarchy of
the company intact. While maintaining your own personal hierarchy, what
your prioritize, and what your boss wants to prioritize too.
I really like that idea. Keep the structure in place.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, and you're not being confrontational. You're partnering, you know,
with your boss or and with the company to assure
the highest priorities are taken care of first. So everybody wins,
and you know, and the key behind it is burnout
and that sense of you know, I'm a failure. I
can't do it comes from here's ten things I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Do it well. None of us can do ten at one.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Absolutely. There's the idea of the workplace and the stress
that builds up in people. There's a tension there now
in a lot of workplaces, as you said, people that
have been told that they have to come to work
after working from home during COVID and the transition that
takes place. I'm wondering if you could speak to what
an employee can do to better manage that workplace conflict.
(08:23):
Maybe they've got a boss or another fellow employee that
they have issues with, they have communications issue with. Is
there anything that you can tell them in terms of
a tangible approach to dealing with conflict at work and
maybe some things that are mistakes that people often make
and trying to sort of approach the issue head on.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
To me, the simplest thing is you focus on the task.
When you focus on the person, that's where you get
in trouble. It's really that simple. It's just this is
about the task. You know. I know you and I
have different perspectives, but let's talk about how we approach
getting this done. Because you, if it's a fellow employee,
and I both want to please our boss or our bosses,
(09:05):
so it's in both of our best interests to get
the task done. Let's create a plan so that we
get it done. And I'm not being unrealistic in the
sense we all know that some people you get along
with better than others some people you work with. Part
of that is the personal journey. I think it's very
important for people to have self awareness. For me being
(09:28):
completely transparent, and my colleagues know this, I'm not detailer.
I'm very good at future thinking, I'm very good at
big picture. I'm very good at putting together puzzles sometimes
that nobody else sees. But if you give me an
endless series of tasks that involve detail, and you're making
a mistake because I'm not going to be good at it.
(09:50):
So for me in a leadership role, what I'm always
seeking to do is partner with people or hire people
that have what I don't have that they're better at
those things than I am. I always try to hire
people that are better than me, because then I know
the outcome is going to be the best possible for
the individuals and for the company. But really it's very simple.
(10:13):
Make it about the task, not about the person.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I love that advice because it's, like you said, it's
very direct and it's very straightforward. But they can focus.
It sort of gives them a sense of control. They
don't have to think about the external. They can focus
on the internal, and that's really great. There's the other
side of that is sort of maintaining motivation while you're
dealing with that kind of negative influence. Is there a
step that you think that individuals can take to maintain
that internal motivation or is that something they're going to
(10:39):
have to develop individually.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Well, it's both.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Obviously, we have to be honest with ourselves about what
makes us feel good about us and if I'm doing
the things that make me feel good about me, you know,
then I have that internal.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Motivation to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
There's a simple little psychological technique that I know people
about that seems to be effective.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
When the other when that dust around you, you know, all.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
That external stuff, the stimulus is getting your wigh. Take
a minute, and it really doesn't take more than a minute,
and you think about whatever that noise is. Shut your eyes,
imagine the noise as a cloud, and when the wind blows,
just visualize the cloud going away and then come back
to work. And the nice thing it's not pharmaceutical, it's uh,
(11:32):
you know, it's completely something you can do as many
times as you want, and you just recognize when it's
becoming too much background noise and just let it go,
literally let it go. I think I may have said
this to you in a prior podcast that that works
for headaches as well. If you if you get a headache,
you know, visualize it in the cloud. Imagine it floating away.
(11:55):
Your headache will go away if you can try that,
or pain, it'll go away. It's aim with that background
noise at work, you know. Being honest, I mean there's
individuals in my own workplace that I struggle more to
work with, but again, focus on the task, and I
really work hard not to take what they may say
(12:17):
as personal. And I think that's where people get in trouble,
the fact that somebody uses a voice tone they don't
like the fact that somebody doesn't recognize so that I'm
nine months pregnant and might need, you know, a minute
break to step away. You know, it's just if you
personalize it, then you end up more stressed and then
(12:39):
the situation gets worse. So if you need to step out,
I can go outside for a minute, just you know,
the bathroom historically has been a wonderful place for people
to get away from it. You know, you go in
there and people are generally not going to be following
you in with information or work tasks.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Is going for the bathroom to refit a little bit.
To take it from that, What you just said about
how your manage communicates with you brings me to my
next question the management HR side of things for communicating
with employees. Let's say that are going through some sort
of behavioral health issue. Is there signs that managers can
recognize among employees that maybe they need maybe an amor
(13:20):
on the shoulder a little bit more supportant.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
There's a saying that I love and this is my
leadership style. But I didn't get it from me. I
got it from a guy who I admire tremendously says,
people don't care how much you know until they know
how much you care. So it's a constant management style,
which means at the times when people are going through stress,
(13:43):
they're very comfortable coming to you and talking about it.
When as a leader, as a manager, the things I
look for something different, Something changes. They arrive later, they
seem to be staring off into space, they're flushed, their
voice tone is different, the quality of the work is different.
I will always then say come on, let's let's go
(14:06):
have lunch together, or let's go for a walk together.
And you know, there'm I always phrase it as I
might be wrong. You know, I might be wrong because
you don't want to be accusatory in that situation for
a lot of different reasons.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So I might be wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
But here's what I notice, And if you're comfortable, I'd
love to be able to help you if my help.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Would be of value.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's ecally. I love that approach. It's very sort of
open to starting the conversation and then it leaves it
to employee to then say more about what's going on.
It sort of starts the conversation. That's the important pot.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's a well researched technique called appreciative inquiry, and that's
a way. You can google it, you can look it up,
and it's a way to have those kinds of conversations
where you're showing appreciation for the person and you're gently
inquiring to try to get them to tell what whatever
(15:00):
their story is.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I just wanted to get into the idea of an
employee that starts at a new workplace, but they've been
through a stressful event, maybe they were fired and maybe
difficult circumstances from a previous job. Are there any steps
that an employee can take before they start this new
role to allow themselves to have a renewed focus and
renewed take on the workplace that they don't want to
take those old stresses to the new environment.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Well, I can answer that one personally. I lost the
job once, you know, I got let go, and it
was I found out within thirty minutes of finding out
that I was going to be a father for the
first time, So that was a relatively stressful hour, and
it would be really easy to be upset, you know,
in lots of different ways, you know, to be excited
(15:48):
and upset and stressed. My takeaway what I learned from
it is, rather than brushing off what had happened, I
think it's important to not rush into.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What you're about to do. You know, you have practical reasons.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You need income, obviously, but to think about what could
I have done differently? You know, sometimes you did nothing,
or the company hired a new president to change this,
and this and this, and I was in a different
layoff situation. I had to let seventeen people go, including myself,
But that just was strictly because they changed their direction.
(16:29):
So there's nothing much to learn there. But if it
is associated in some way with your own behavior, the
best approach is to say, what is it? What could
I do differently so that that kind of thing would
not have happened. And in that particular situation where I
found out I was being a dad, I actually uncovered
something about my own behavior that has proven invaluable and
(16:54):
future jobs. Because I'm a different person, I handle the
exact same kind of situation very differently because I was Look,
we all screw up. Sometimes, we all do things that Gee,
I wish I could have done that differently. Well, you
can't in the future. You can't in the past. To
just give yourself a break and figure out what it
(17:16):
is and then do something different for the future.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
That's the best advice for me.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I can't even imagine that the stress of that situation
finding out you're a father. From that, that must have
been and you seem to have come out with it
with the right attitude from it, so it seems to
have worked out for the best. But I can't even
imagine how much stress that must have.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I'll share one other detail there, which you might
find interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I don't know why, but I had the peace of
mind to.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Say, well, what's the issue right now, And the issue
is I'm going to be a dad. I need a job,
and I could focus on the thing that I'm upset about.
But I gave myself permission to be upset once I
got my next job, and within thirty days I had
one of the most intriguing jobs I've ever had in
(18:04):
my life. I got hired by a culinary institute to
design a training program to teach chefs how to manage people.
Chefs and I how to cook. Chefs don't know how
to manage people. And that was thirty days after I
had lost that other job. I applied to you laugh.
I applied to five hundred jobs the next week after
(18:25):
it happened, because I needed a job. Now, if i'd
gotten multiple opportunities, I could select what's the best fit,
what's most interesting, but the bottom lines, I needed a job.
So at the point where I got that other one,
I said, you know what, didn't matter. It happened, I learned,
I'm moving on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That is an an unbelievable approach to it. And again
I can't imagine that stressful situation, but it seems like
it worked out really well. This concludes our initial conversation
with doctor Levine. Thank you so much for listening. Your
time and support means so much to our entire team.
In our next recording, we're introducing a new addition to
(19:05):
our podcast, Questions from You the listener, listening as Doctor
Levine answers your workplace mental health questions
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