TMCP Ep 10: Tank/Roach Locked In, Canelo/Bivol Possible?

Jamieson and Classy are back to discuss the latest news and notes from around the boxing world including:

Recap of Bivol vs Beterbiev 2
Bivol/Benavidez trilogy in the works?
Could we get another Canelo/Bivol fight down the line?
Preview of the all-women's British boxing event in London set for March 7 on Peacock
More streaming news and thoughts
Pop Pugilism breakdown: Cinderella Man

and more!



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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
In this corner standing it six foot five weight class
unknown hailing from Sin City, Las Vegas, Jamison Wells, and
in this corner standing it five foot nine Wayne Town
with six wins, three.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Losses, two arrests, four late.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Payments on student loans, and two total bankruptcies hits the.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Class I'll go holid and welcome back to another episode
of the Mixed Company Podcast. I'm one of the hosts,
Jamison Wells, of course, joined by the classy. I'll cahol it, classy.
What's going on? Man? Oh man?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I am so happy to be back in my home
podcast studio in Tucson, Arizona. Jamison. If y'all haven't listened
to our previous episode, he definitely should because it is
a great one. And I was traveling during that time.
I recorded that episode a shitty hotel in Austin, Texas,
had just visited Galveston Island, which is located on the
Gulf of Mexico. But now I'm happy to be home
and I'm so stoked that this is episode ten of

(01:05):
the Mixed Company Podcast. No Middle, yes, officially double digits.
Haters said it couldn't be done, and by haters, I
mean my shitty WiFi that has been working against me
for years.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, well that meaning said, I'm glad you're back. Glad
you're back at Tucson. How's how's Austin trip?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
It was fun, Don't get me wrong. I had a
lot of fun. But also, man, Texas is just kind
of like, it's a lot, and it was really cool
to go to a lot of cities that I hadn't
been to as an adult. I did, like I said, Galveston, Austin,
San Antonio. So that was a lot of fun. But
you know, I let's just say I missed home, and
Tucson feels very homey to me. And I will say

(01:43):
everywhere I went, really cool people, really friendly bartenders, chatted
up the locals, everybody was super nice. So, you know what,
I'm not gonna say it was a bad trip. It wasn't.
But like I said, I definitely Arizona and Texas they're
both viserably hot and both very racist. But Tucson does
have something about it that's very chill. And I was
happy to be home.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Okay, fair enough, fair enough, I'm glad you back. Hoping
got some barbecue and some some good boss stories and whatnot,
and they have different beers out there and all that
good stuff, So I hope you're able to do Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
No, I I ate my wad and barbecue. You know,
I think I think there was a whiskey shortage in
Austin by the time I left. To be quite honest
with you, I think I made a dent fair enough,
fair enough.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, I mean, since you've been gone and been a
lot of boxing going on out boxing news, a lot
of boxing in general. So where do you want to
start at.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, let's see. This morning, I woke up at the
Krack Carnoon, hung over as hell, walked to the newstand
and I picked up the latest copy of the Boxing Gazette.
So let's leave through that. Most of the articles in
there about the major event that happened last weekend in
Saudi Arabia called it the Last Crescendo. It was the
rematch between Archer Betterbev and Dmitri Bevol, But there were
a lot of other fights on the card, and uh

(02:53):
there they were really fun to watch. It was a
great event all around. So we'll get into some of those,
but just first for some background, Better be Of and
Bevil first fought in October twenty twenty four, better be
I won by Unanum's decision became the undisputed heavyweight champion
of the world. This time around, people narrowly got the
win and was crowned the new undisputed champion. One judge
called it a draw, the other two win in favor

(03:15):
of Bevall. So, Jamison, what did you think of those results?
Did you think bee Will deserved the win? What were
your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I thought it was a good fight, a good overall
fight whenever. So you know, when it comes to boxing,
you know, the first thing we always want to have
is a good scrap. That's the first thing, right, whether
whoever wins, loses, whatever, you just want a competitive fight.
And I think that's the first thing that got marked off, right.
So we got that, which is fine, you know, guy decision.

(03:41):
You know, val or Vall was the winner, which was fine.
I didn't have any problems with it. Very strong, chin like,
very very very strong, chin like, very impressive that when
I like, you know, but no, it was a very
good fight, and I think, you know, to be honest
with you, I think it deserves a trilogy, to be
honest with you, I think I think there's interest in

(04:01):
a trilogy. You know, it's one to one. Now, the fights,
you know, this fight was very competitive. I mean, here's
the thing. If it was judged a different way, I
don't know how many good plants there are. There would
be some. I don't think it would be mass hysteria.
Oh tim I got robbed. I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, that's always the case for the last fight. They said,
you know, Bevall was robbed. This time there are people
commenting saying that better be it was robbed. I think
one thing that I hate about boxing fans, you know,
in the comments on social media, it's it's two things.
I want them to engage in the sport in a
better way. They always either say it's a robbery or
this guy's fighting and nobody and that's it. It's like
a bird sanctuary, just fall of parents. I mean, come

(04:43):
on for me, honestly, the fight was so close that
I wouldn't have been surprised anyway that it went, if
either guy went, or if it was a draw. To
be quite honest with you, you know, but yeah, like I said,
Beebell had a great chin. I think the biggest compliment
you can pay him is that archer better be of
had a one hundred percent knockout rage and all of

(05:03):
his fights up until he fought Bevall, everybody else he
got him out of there never went the distance with
anybody except this guy. So yeah, I think that I
think the win was deserved. But yeah, like I said,
it could have gone either way and I would have
been happy. I just was just happy to see the
two of them, two guys at the top of their
top of their game, you know, really good technical fighters,

(05:24):
really strong fighters, warriors all the way through. I'd love
to see it. Man, It's it's wonderful, Like that's what
I love about the sports, fights like that. So with
that said, you know you said you were thinking of trilogy.
Another thing we talked about last episode is that David
Benaviva is the natural person to challenge bev All. Right, now,

(05:45):
what do you prefer a trilogy or for better VIDs
versus Bevall?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Next, Well, that's a that's trilogy. I think you're you're
mixing up the names there.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (05:54):
No, my bad, ipologiz I was thinking about something totally different. No,
the trilogy is what works for those people want to see, right,
But Navida is a little bit different. It's a different situation.
I think he's waiting for someone totally different. So I
was mixing up we know who, Butnavida is waiting for
so we ain't got to go into that.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
But I don't think so though. I think Benavidez has
basically walked away from the potential Canelo fight, and he's
so I think so. I think I think that he
knows his best bet is sticking with light heavyweight and
challenging one of these two guys better be ever be all,
depending on who you know is. I think I think
he sees the.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Writing on the wall. I don't think you can give
up on the payday that easily. Okay, Okay, you know
what I mean. I think that's another big fight money
and storyline wise, that you can't just give up that easily. Now,
if he gets you know, if it's something where he's
told no, or if Canelo ends up fighting Chance Crawford
multiple times, then I get you. You can't wait forever.

(06:49):
So I understand where you're coming from. But I think
we should see a trilogy of this one. I think
we really should. I think one we don't get the
many trilogies anymore anyway for a lot of different reasons.
But that makes boxing great when you see two guys
fight each other, it goes to the card each time.
That's good and it leaves a lot of discussion whenever

(07:10):
it's a close fight, like you said, it can go
either way. That's good for the sport. That's really good.
Instead of oh God, Rob like you said, or oh
this and that. No, no, we need close fights. We
need to be able to discuss and go over Hey,
this is what happened in this fight. This what happened
to that fight. We need to be able to discuss
as boxing fans. So I don't have a problem at all. Plus,

(07:32):
what was the last trilogy that we had? Was it
Wilder and Fuera's last like mainstream trilogy that we had.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, that's the less That's the only one I can
think of that I can remember in recent memories. So yeah,
and we said it before in the show. That was
a huge spectacle, you know everybody. It permeated into the
non boxing fans. You know, normisn't knew about it, So yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
You know, like I said, David Benavidez, he's been waiting
for a shot either with Canelo or for Light have
wait a championship and I love you, David, come on
the show. He's in Phoenix, so I'll drive to you.
I'll bring a microphone so I can apologize to you
in person from my stance because I want to see
Bevo versus the.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Better b of three.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
You know, I David, you can chill a little bit longer.
I know you've been waiting, but please just hang out
for like another year, because yeah, seeing these two guys
in the ring together, it was awesome. I'll take it.
I'll take a quadrilogy based on what run it back.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Later this year, early next year, whatever, whatever works. But
I think there's a demand for the fight, that's the thing.
I think they're an actual demand. And whenever you have that,
you got to hit that demand while it's there, because
it's no guarantee that always be there. So I think
that's that's the thing. But no, it was good to see.
I said. I'm here for good fights. I don't really
care for the results that much. I care about good

(08:44):
competitive fights. If we get good competitive fights, that's better
for the overall sport than anything else.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Right, And Archer better b of is forty, so you
know he's yeah, he's on his way. Bevo is still
thirty four, so he's still got some some guests, something
to take. And not to say that bitter b Of
is like a grampye and you know should be put
out to pass here or it's time for the urn.
But realistically, you know you just can't do this sport
for that long, right. So, speaking of Dmitri Bevall and

(09:09):
our friend here that we just brought up, do you
think Canelo will take a Bevall rematch? Do you think
he'll ever it'll ever happen?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Nah? I mean, Canelo's gonna do what makes financial sense
at this date. I don't think Canal's going to do
anything that the people may want to see if it
doesn't make financial sense. I think past stage of his
career where if he's then get in the ring, it's
gonna be very financial beneficial to him and his family
is camp. I think that's where we are now. So

(09:36):
if that fight makes sense money wise, sure, but if
it doesn't, no shot.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, No, I know, I feel like beav All would
take I don't think Bevoll is uh the person holding
back a rematch there for the two of them, but
I don't know. Yeah, I mean the Bevall fight against
Canelo happened right after Canelo's biggest win against Caleb Plant,
you know, becoming undisputed super mid a weight. I think

(10:01):
it is uh And you know, those guys are good fighters.
Caleb Blad is a good fighter.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's be All just is be All good but also
just bigger. Not to diss him by any means, He's
got the skills, but you know, what's the difference there
between you know, the one weight class and up another.
Does it make that much of a difference to go
up one weight class with a dude who's very good
and also a lot bigger than you.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
I don't know. I think it does, man, because when
you're when you're facing one that's sitting at that weight class,
you're the one moving up. It's it is difficult. It
is difficult whenever your body has to go through the
transformations and you're trying to adjust to how your body reacts.
It is a difference that I do agree with one
hundred percent. I'm definitely there. With that being said, though,
when it comes to a potential Caneli fight, the one

(10:45):
thing I will say about Canelo that I cannot say
about others. Canelo is extremely active, so I think there's
a better chance of a Canelo of your videos fight
in the future than in a normal situation. Can you
fight it's like at least twice a year, sometimes three
times a year, So I can respect that. I understand that.
My only issue is when he fights Chance Crawford in

(11:08):
the September. If that flop fight is remotely close in
any way, shape or form, it is not a blowout
one way or another. If that flight is anywhere close,
we're getting a rematch, and so you got to push
the calendar back in another six months.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
So that'll be my only concern, right Well, you know,
I'm excited to see what happens and excited to see
what happens with the light heavyweight class. You know, I'll
take another bev All better be of trilogy. You know,
I do think they have a ben Avitez deserves a
shot because he's a great fighter who's proven himself that
he's got some excellent skills, and you know, I think
he deserves the lead competition. So let's see what happens. Well,

(11:43):
we'll be tracking it right here on the Mixed Company podcast.
Speaking of that same event, our friend Shakur Stevenson or
sheck Hool as the British we're pronouncing it. It was
never not funny to hear them say shechckhole when they
were talking about him on the commentary.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
He had his.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Opponent drop out due to this. He was supposed to
fight Floyd's Schofield Junior. So the replacement was a British
guy named Josh Padley, who the announcers kept reminding us
is literally an electrician who took the fight on just
a couple of days. Notice he he was a boxer
as well, but he was working, you know, doing an
electrician job a week before dropped. Everything went to the fight.

(12:20):
It ended in around nine Josh Padley's corners throw in
the towel after Shakur knocked Padley down three times with
body shots each time, and of course the haters came
out of the woodwork. My question is, why can't this
kid catch a fucking break like It's not like shake
Kr Stevenson picked his out appointment opponent. He had one
boring fight against Edwin Delo Santo's and so many people
started talking about him like he's the worst fighter in

(12:40):
the world. He's getting criticized for not knocking Padley out
earlier because he's quote nobody, Streaker has never been a
knockout artist or even a big power puncher. You know,
he's a good team fight.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Not but he's talked about as an elite fighter, and
he has elite speed, he has lite hand speed, he
has elite defensive skill, but he doesn't let his hands
go as much. We as boxing fans, like to see
that top tier talent let his hands go more, not
necessarily for knockout power, but just overall on this showcasing

(13:11):
of the elite skill set that he has, we have
not seen Mac consistently enough. So that's where a lot
of the faults come in at with him. That's where
a lot of the claims, ah, he's born. He's that
because offensively, he does not put his skill set to
test as much as we would like for him to see.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Sure, but being a defensive fighter is a thing, and
clearly he has successful with it. I mean, he's got
very good He's one of the best at hitting and
not getting hit. So I don't know, I think his
I don't think the technical skills get the praise they
deserve with this kid, and I think he's just gotten
a He's become an easy target for boxing fans. You know,
if he's gotten the first round knockout against Josh Padley,

(13:54):
what everybody have said, Well, of course he's a nobody,
he's an electrician. He doesn't deserve credit for that. I mean,
I don't know. I think he gets too much ked
he does.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
But at the same time, he does bring upon himself
because he talks reference on social media and he's louder
than he probably should be. You can be a defensive fighter,
that's fine, but even the elite defensive fighters were good
offensive fighters in their youth. While he's still young, right,
He's still young and in the top of his athletic prime,
so we expect a little bit more offense from the guy,

(14:24):
especially for how he talks and portrays himself. Now, at
that being said, there's guys who have not fought him
and don't want to fight him, so I do give
him credit for that, but I would like to see
him somehow fight a top tier guy as well, to
see how his skill set matches up with another top
tier guy as well. And feels like we're never going
to get him in tank in the ring and feels

(14:45):
like that's never happened for a lot of different reasons,
but the biggest issue is we need secure to be
a star, and the way to be a star is
you gotta be able to mix up your defensive skills
with a little bit more offense. And until we get that,
he shouldn't be on anyone else's card. He should be
headlining a card with his talent, and that's probably the

(15:05):
problem that we have.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Also true, yeah, I mean, but although the tiny headline,
the last time I believe the headline is card was
that Edwin dela Centro's fight where everybody just lost their ship.
I mean, you know, he said that his hand was injured,
he wasn't moving around, but again, Edward dela Centros couldn't
get couldn't lay a hand on him either, So I
don't know. I think I'm a little bit more of
a core fan than a lot of folks are, and
I think he gets more hate than he deserves. But

(15:29):
he's still young, you know, He's he's only he's only
retired and unretired ones, so he's still got a lot
of time left in the tank.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
So to speak absolutely.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
So, yeah, guys retired unretired all the time, so you know,
he's probably got He's probably got a couple more retirements
under his belt before he stops boxing.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
He ain't going nowhere, man, I mean the money is
too good, and that's his skill set. Like he's not
like a person does something else in box on the side,
Like that's not how this goes. Like this is what
he does, this is his this is his career path,
So he ain't going nowhere. I wouldn't worry too much
about it. My biggest thing is this, we want to
see boxers box, right, We want to see guys face
off against elite talent to show where they're at. And

(16:08):
until we see him fight a top tier guy, it's
gonna be the same old, same one. Now, I will
say this, there's guys who have not wanted to fight
him or have you know, said no, I'm cool. So
I understand that. I do get that as well, and
I think there's some blame that is a little unjust.
But for a guy with his skill set and for

(16:29):
how he carries himself, you would think he's the best
fighter in the world, and that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, yeah, you know he's also think about him. Credit
is he doesn't care about the hate at all, Like
it just rolls right off the shoulder. He just boops forward.
And yeah he's got a mouth on him. But you
know he's.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Emotional too because whenever it gets too much he retires
and stuff like. It's always something. But again he's I
like him. I think he's extremely talented. I just want
to see because all right, we're gonna talk about defensive fighters.
Sweet Peet was a defensive fighter, but he was losto
offensive when he needed to. Obviously was a defensive fighter,
but he was offensive when he needed to. We can't

(17:08):
compare Shakur those two guys. If there's not enough offense
being put on, especially at this age, at this age,
you see more.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
That's fair, that's fair. He's still he's got a long
way to go, so you know, I hope, uh, I
hope he takes more league competition and hope we see
more of him in the future. So all right, to
see there's a lot of international news here in the
boxing is that next up? Just something I want to
talk about, uh this coming March seventh in London Brough.
We've gotten old women's books and match at the Royal
albert Hole Natasha Choones and Norm Price. We're facing off

(17:40):
of the women's Will to Wait titles of the World.
With that said, that's it up, I've done, I've done.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
You got you gotta practice that on the show. You
gotta practice that before you come on. You can't just win,
you can't.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
The referees will be Alig Pepper, Pagan Doctor who I've done,
I've done.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
You can't wing that. You gotta practice that.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
That's good for next For next episode, I'll find another. Yeah, look,
we support women's boxing on the show. Every fighter in
this event will be a woman. It'll be broadcast on
Sky Sports in England naturally, but here in the US
it will be broadcast on it be streaming on Peacock,
which is interesting. So we've talked before about how I
think it's a mistake for Top Rank boxing to leave
ESPN and move to a streaming platform. I hate the

(18:26):
idea that boxing will be less accessible for people with
a basic cable package or for sports bars that just
have ESPN on all the time. But if it's gonna happen,
I think more streaming platforms UH should get into the
should get into streaming boxing as much as possible, so
that Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson fight was trash. It
wasn't real boxing. No love to those Paul guys. I
hope they go away forever. But one interesting thing about

(18:49):
it was that it aired on Netflix. So if top
Brank leaves ESPN to go to the zone, which few
normies in the US know went thing about, honestly, uh,
we're gonna lose a lot of potential audiences. So but
if there are more fights on streaming apps, maybe people
might be signed up for the Sorry, more fights on
apps that people are already signed up for, all the better.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, I know the Peacock has done an event
before with I believe these same ladies that I don't
know the history very well. I think they had a
fight before. This is a rematch in Peacock stream.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
But so I don't know.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
What do you think, Like, what's the best way to
get eyeballs on these fights in the era of streaming
potentially streaming.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Only, Well, that's just gonna be the norm. I think
the best thing to do is market right, So if
you're gonna have fights with streaming or on streaming. You
got to cross promote your product, so during podcasts, during
other events, etc. Etc. Like podcasts of the new radio.
YouTube is similar to the mix between radio and like
movies and the news. So you guys crossed promote your

(19:49):
product in a lot of different forms that you normally
wouldn't and then get other people's interests that way. I
think that's the biggest thing, is cross promote your product
and a lot of different forms, not just oh, putting
it up on a twenty second clip at the end
of another sporting event. That ain't gonna work. You gotta
cross promote the product in a lot of different ways,
and there's a lot different avenues to do that. Like
you mentioned, there's so many different streaming services, there's so

(20:13):
many different other sporting events out there where I think
it can be done executed properly. However, this is the
new norm, so get used to it. We're not going
back to regular network TV. That's We're gonna have more
and more streaming than ever before. They want it that way.
It's easier for them to control things that way, it's
cheaper for them to operate that way. So that's what

(20:33):
we're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
I I would be more on board with getting used
to this new model if there was more outreach, more
of a way for people to get into these fights,
to watch these fights easily and honestly, Like, let's be real,
it's interesting that these fights are streaming on Peacock, which
is an NBC affiliate or whatever you call it. It's
like the NBC's streaming. But how many people actually pay

(20:56):
for the peacock be dead? I don't know anybody.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Personally, so I have Peacock, but it's for other I
mean a lot of times things come in a bundle,
so like Peacock, Hulu, whatever, whatever, for like a certain
set price a month. But also live sports is a
premium that is a in general when it comes to
putting on products on air. So that's why you see

(21:20):
Peacock things on there and on Netflix. There's only a
handful of live content that's on TV in general. So
that's why these streaming companies are jumping up to take
boxing because there's not a whole lot of other live
content items on air. It's not what Netflix their model is.
Put something on there and the whole thing's on there
so you can watch it at once. But when that

(21:42):
you run out of You run out of stuff very quickly.
So that's why you're seeing them get into sports. Peacock
is going to be the same thing with a lot
of events going forward, so to do not be surprised.
They have more boxing matches in the future, and it's
not that expensive. You can get the regular version four
nine nine a month.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
I think, okay, YouTube as well. YouTube can do live events,
they can do YouTube boxing. I mean this, this sport
has to get creative. If it's gonna go all streaming,
it has to get creative in the way that it
reaches new fans because you're you're just completely shutting out
all the grampies that don't know how to download a
new app or sit up for you know, I if somebody,
somebody's grand kids don't help them with this, they're gone.

(22:20):
They're not gonna They're not gonna see you know, just
the top right match from now on.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I would love to see Amazon get involved. I think
Amazon does things the best when it comes to sports,
and they sports as an advertisement situation, not necessarily. I
mean they're focused on the event, that's not a problem,
but they use it as a marketing campaign for Amazon
for those three hours, So I like to see Amazon there.
Their stream is always good, the picture is always clear.

(22:46):
You know, they do it well, and it's easy to
find when you go on Amazon app. It's literally the
first thing you see, so you ain't got to fish
around whatever. So I would I would hope if they
do go that route, that's where they go.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean, I'm still I'm still kind of down
on the whole thing because on February fourteenth, when I
was in Austin, you know, I was watching that trying
to find the Keshon Davis versus Dennis baroncheck fight, and
you know, I was bar hopping. So I went to
three different places, you know, to watch a couple of fights,
and then every place I went to had ESPN on.
You know. There's the last place I went to there
was this Mexican restaurant that had a giant TV. It

(23:19):
happened to be on ESPN too. It was kind of dead.
I was like, hey man, you know, can you just
put it on regular ESPN? They said cool, you know,
and that's what I like. You know, if just going
to a regular, regular, regular bar right the team they
have a TV that's not being used, I'm like can
you put the fight on. They're really cool about it.
So that's something that I'm gonna miss, and you know,
we'll just see how what what ended up what ends
up happening with top rank in the future. But yeah,

(23:42):
it's it's it's it seems like kind of a bummer
and I don't know. We'll just see how it goes.
We'll keep you updated on major developments. Okay, speaking of
major fights, the next major fight coming up if you're
listening to this on the if you're listening to the
show on the day comes out, it will be in
a couple of days, Saturday, March first, Gervanta, Tank Davis.

(24:02):
We're fighting Lamont roach in Brooklyn. Now I'm gonna say something,
but I'm sure I promise you was gonna come back
to the fight.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
So.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I love going to see movies in the theater, Jamison.
I know you're not much of a theater guy, but
I love. One of my favorite things is going in
the movies. But for those of us who do, there's
a particular experience we have to deal with. Sometimes it's
occasionally there's a major movie coming out and we have
to see the exact same trailer over and over like
sometimes six months before the damn movie even opens, and

(24:29):
when that happens, I'm just dying for the movie to
finally come out so I don't have to hear about
it again. That's kind of where I am with this fight.
To be honest, I'm happy that it's here because I'm
kind of sick of hearing about it talking about it. It
was supposed to happen in December and Houston, but got delayed,
And it's a little hard to be excited about because, yeah,
Lamont Roach is a talented fighter, but this isn't something
like taking Garcia or better.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Ba I no, no, I want to see this fight, man.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I was trying to be nice about it.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
This fight we know, as great as Tank is and
as gray as his record is and his performances is
a big and we want to see him fight certain
fighters we don't want to see. This is a hand picked,
you know, easy fight to get by and to figure
out what's next or guess he's retiring after this fight whatever.
Anybody trying to see this fight, man, I'm sorry, we're
not here for that.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
This isn't something yeah, like if you tell me that,
I don't know. Yeah, we're we're talking about Canelo versus
Bud Crawford now, which could happen in September, and I'm
stoked about it, Like I can't wait. This fight has
just been dragged on and on and there's like the
drama with tank sing it was canceled and blah blah blah.
And I'm sure that when I'm sitting in front of

(25:34):
my TV, you know, watching the matches, I'm gonna get
hyped up. But right now it's it's very hard to
get excited. So we want to see Tank Fish occur.
Anything outside of that, we're not really excited about. What
about I'm not trying to not trying to see anything else.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
We know the fight we want as boxing fans, and
this is the thing that drew a lot of people
away during excuse the Floyd era, because people want to
he fights that they want to see. We don't want
to get. We don't want side orders. Like if I
go to restaurant, I want the main thing. I want
the main entree. I'm not here for the mass potatoes.

(26:11):
I'm not here for the Brussels sprouts. I'm not here
for the French fries. I'm here if I go to
out there, go out for entree, and unfortunately when it
comes to Tank, it's been interesting because the promotion's been different. Uh,
you know, the Lerb thing and the Floyd thing is
always something that goes on in the background. It's never
a smooth moment. Then of course himself, he's you know,

(26:33):
he's his own outside of the ring issues. Also, I
just want to see him fight someone that's on his
similar talent level, that's all, and whatever happens when that happens.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, I wouldn't be as down on this fight if
Tank was a guy that fou twice a here. If
you thought, okay, well yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like sure,
take take a tun a fight, take whatever.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I like, I just enjoy watching fights, and I enjoy
watching Tank. So if we thought that maybe he was
gonna fight at least one time this year, I wouldn't
be as like about it. So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, it can't be one of the faces of
the sport and fight as sparingly as he does and
then hand pick guys while doing it. Now, if you
just told me, hey, he was fighting Secure in two weeks, okay, cool,
all right, cool whatever, do whatever you want to do
after that, because that's a that's a big name fight.
People want to see it. You know, people know about
you guys, the whole nine. That's fine, but man nah

(27:29):
and then the hole ill will retire and my mental
health and blah blah blah. All right, I understand mental
health is a very important thing. I am not here
down play that. However, However, we can't come back four
months from now talking about the best in the world.
Blah blah blah. I don't fight fighting. It can't be that.
So we got to figure out what do we want

(27:50):
to do and go from there.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
What about a Tank Rangersier rematch, that's something you'd be
excited about.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
No, but that's gonna probably be the case because it
makes a lot of money. Yea Ryan has a huge
fan base and Tank is Tank, so yeah, that would
be well. But even then, like we know who's gonna
win that fight with all due respect, like Tank's a
better boxer and he you know, Ryan's Ryan, so even
and if Ryan is not on anything he would he

(28:19):
shouldn't be. Yeah, I would favorite Tank, and Tank probably
gets them out of there again. But with all that
being said, we want to see our guys fight the
competition they're supposed to fight. Man, at the end of
the day, we don't want to see ducky and dodging.
And I think that's a big issue that has driven
a lot of casual fans away because how many times

(28:40):
do you spend seventy eighty nine dollars in a pay
per view for a fight you don't want to see.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
That's wild, that is yeah, that's absolutely wild. I think
the thing that's gonna continue killing boxing, especially in the
era of streaming, is really expensive pay per views.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, like pay per views and just ram subscriptions that
you really don't want, Like Tank is a guy that
cancel a pay per view, But we gotta have a
better matchup, man, Like I'm not excited about Yeah. I
like seeing Tank fight. It's probably gonna win, probably went
within the first seven rounds, that's great, But I ain't
really here for that, Like I want to see our fighters.

(29:14):
When we think of great fighters, we think about the
guys they fought. They didn't get to fifty wins because
they fought forever. They nah, they fought guys, they had
battles with really good other Hall of Fame caliber fighters
and we've gotten away from that.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, like when was this fight announced for Like, like I said,
it was supposed to happen in December. Did we start
talking about in October? I think so now, Yeah, it's
we had a whole last New Year. We had you know,
we had a whole last Halloween, Christmas and everything. So yeah, well, yeah,
if you could pick his tanks next three upon hus
because he says he's gonna retire probably at the end
of twenty twenty five or twenty six, and well yeah,

(29:53):
let's let's start. Let's start here, who would you pick
for his next three? You know, he said chakor for
sure who else he got?

Speaker 3 (29:58):
You know, even if you throw a Ryan are seeing there.
I wouldn't be opposed to it. I get it, Like
I understand why that would happen, right, well, I would
understand it. But also like Devin Hanne.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Has been quiet, Den has been quiet, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Like real quiet. Still a name, a lot going on
on that side, But I wouldn't be opposed to it.
Don't think it would ever happen, but I wouldn't be opposed. Also,
it's a fight that Devin Haity would need to win
or fight really well into for us really care about
him again, but he's a guy that does have a
skill set that you know, we allegedly should take seriously.

(30:40):
So I'm just saying, when it comes to these type
of fighters, guys that have a Hall of Fame type
of trajectory, we should be seeing them fight each other.
I don't want to see any more tune up fights.
I don't want somebody fighting someone too young or at
the end of the road. We need to see guys
fighting while they're in the peak of their powers until

(31:02):
we get that. I'm not really cool with it. Like,
I don't want to hear anyone talking about the best
in the world, the best in this and that, because honestly,
we're not seeing you fight the best guys in the world.
So how can you call yourself the best in the
world of top for top or powder pound number one
if you're not fighting the best guys, I don't want
to hear it.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, Tank has been sticking to a story about retirement,
So here's here's one for you. What are the better odds?
What's more likely that Lamont Roach wins or the Tank
stays retired? What were you bet on? Ah? Well, look here,
I don't think we're expecting alamant roach upset boxers.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Boxers are threatened to retire and come back so quickly.
It's all about money man for the most part. Unfortunately,
the money part of boxing is what drives guys, right,
So when the money runs low, guys come back to fighting.
That's how that's how it goes. Not necessarily cool about it,
but that's just the nature of the beast. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well, at the end of the day, Tank is probably
gonna have my favorite moment in recent boxing history. Do
you remember when he Romero I think that was a
couple of years ago in the middle of the fight,
in the middle of around Rollie's corner, shouts in and says,
Fox and Roly you can out box Tank, and Tank,
while moving, turns his head at the corner and says,
shut your pitch ass up and keeps fighting. That was hilarious.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
I'm a fan. I love, but I'm tired of giving
these guys passes because at the end of the day,
the guys we grew up watching like aust Valeha gets
a lot of ship from a lot of people for
a lot of reasons, but he fought everyone like every
He didn't duck anyone like. He had a lot of
things you can go and say about him, and there's

(32:38):
a hole of things we don't need to get into
today because that's not the time or to play. However,
he fought everyone. You go to his Wikipedia. He fought everyone,
all right, Floyd for the most part, fought everyone. Even
though Timmy may not have been right, he fought everyone.
These new school guys, I'm not really rolling with it,

(32:59):
and I get it. Some of it is Floyd's issue
because he pick and choose who to fight with time
to fight. These guys don't fighting people in general. They
just saying no cool, So I don't I don't know, man,
I'm not really happy about this right now.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
We you know, we we talked. We talked about the
sport because we love it and we want it to
be better. You know, we're not We're not boxing haters.
You know, we're here saying like we want the sport
to grow and be you know, wait, man, I just
realized we're officially watched this hell and be like in
our day, back in our day.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
It's two though.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
It's true.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Though it was very true, like dale Ya fought multiple
times a year and fought big names almost every time,
like looking back from like ninety three on to like,
oh he fought Packing on like oh six or oh SnO,
he fought Floyd O seven. I think he fought packing
on eight. So for a fifteen year time span, he

(33:54):
fought any and everybody multiple times a year. I gotta
respect that. Like I said, I'm I'm not the biggest
Dea fan per se, but as a boxer and for
what you're supposed to be as a boxer, I have
I have to respect that.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Sure, Yeah, he fought me with her oh seven Pacio
eight and just looked it up.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
So yeah, well he's bought everybody and that was going
out the door. So in his prime, there's no one
he turned down. There's no one he said. No, I'm
cool but that But that's how, that's how, that's what
boxing fans are used to. So when you give them
something different, they don't necessarily know how to react in
a in a good manner.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Jue, Well, you know, uh, we got a lot of
issues with the sport as it stands, and like I said,
we're here to try to make it better. We want
boxing to be and it's prime like it used to be.
And uh, you know, the sport that I love with
all my heart, the only spart I've ever truly cared about. So, guys,
let's get more, more fights, more fights.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
More often.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
That's what we really need. I think that's the starting point.
That's bare minimum is have guys fight at least once
a year twice its possible. But anyway, so cool. No,
that's a good discussion. Let's move on to something different,
you know, right. Next up is our pop Pugilism segment,
in which we discussed a movie, TV show or documentary
about boxing. Today, we're going back to the world of

(35:13):
period pieces, the world of biopics, because we're discussing Cinderella
Man from two thousand and five, directed by Ron Howard,
starring Russell Crowe, Rene Zellweger, Paul Giamatti, Craig Bierco. The
movie made one hundred and eight million worldwide on a
budget of eighty eight million. And this Russell Crowe plays
Jim Braddock, an Irish boxer who fought during the Great Depression,

(35:33):
and he's best known for a major improbable comeback after
giving up boxing, having to work as a long shortman,
defeat his family, and then getting the chance to fight
Max Bear for the heavyweight championship in nineteen thirty five,
which he won. So we'll get into the details of
the movie and a little bit of history from the era.
But first, Jamison, what did you think about this film?

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Right? Movie? You could tell the movie had a big
budget because it was filmed like it shot like you
you know, that was the main thing. It puts you
back on those times, like the Great Depression times unfortunately,
which was like basically about one hundred years ago. In
a sense, it puts you back and there whenever a
movie can do that, it's doing something right. The filling,
the settings, the line they had basically a line of

(36:18):
people wanting to work and they only picked like five
or seven people to actually work. It puts you and
you know, it puts you in the heart of that,
and that's really good to capture something like that from
that from that period of time. So I thought that
was really done well. Thought the boxing seems were pretty good,
especially four capturing how boxing was back then. So no,
I think overall a really good movie, a really really

(36:40):
good film.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's got really good production values. Yeah, I mean the
Great Depression, you know, they showed the breadlines, you know,
having to go into the government welfare office just to
make you know, get a couple of bucks to get
you through, to pay the light bill, to pay for milk,
all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I've never seen the movie. I was in no rush
to see it. I never get excited about Ron Howard movies.
I like Apollo thirteen, that's pretty good, but anything else
I've never He's a great filmmaker, you know, he's had
an excellent career. He's an award winner. So no hate,
you know, no disrespect. But I don't know. I just
never rush out to the theater to see the new
Ron Howard joint. But I do. I appreciate getting to

(37:16):
watch this one. And I actually love this segment in
the for the podcast because it introduces me to new
movies that I haven't seen yet. So yeah, I liked.
I liked that it took place in the Great Depression,
that it showed a little bit of life in that era.
I liked that the story picked up right when Jim
Braddock was on his way out, so we didn't have
to deal with like old ass Russell Crowe playing a

(37:38):
nineteen year old version of himself with a backwards baseball cap.
To indicate that he was young. Right, So yeah, there's
that period when you know, a lot of the movie
is him struggling to make ends meet. So a lot
of boxing movies that we've talked about could be formulaic.
You know, you see the rise, you see the fall,
you see the comeback. So I appreciate any kind of

(37:59):
little little dv from the formula.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
So that would also like dog fighting on empty stomach
sounds crazy.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
That's something I never Okay, this movie. And also what else, Oh,
the Clarissa Shields movie where when she was a kid,
you know, she grew up in Flint, poor as hell
and was training and eating like, I don't know, scraps
at home like Kansa do. I have no clue how
somebody can get into fighting, fighting shape without eating like protein,

(38:30):
you know, veggies and all that stuff. Like I'll never
understand that. Like I was, I was, I was training,
going to the gym and sparring. You know, I was
eating you know, my counting, my macros. I was eating protein.
I was eating lentils, beans, brown rice and everything, and
even so sometimes I was lightheaded after after staring.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, I can't imagine
boxing and not eating or haven't eaten a day, or
I can't. I can imagine. However, if you ask, your
body's used to and that's which boys used to, and
you kind of just go the f flow. Plus you're
fighting for basically food, you're basically fighting for survival. So
I I understand it. I think it's messed up, but

(39:10):
I definitely understand it.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Sure, But how the hell do you build muscle? What
do you build it out of?

Speaker 3 (39:15):
You build muscle, you already have the muscle. You're just
fighting on reserves basically.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I guess that's true. I guess that's yeah, I guess
I guess that's a good point. He's he's not like
in fighting camp, you know, every day and you know,
eating eight hundred calories. I guess he's already in shape
and just kind of it's like when you don't really
you don't really start to death if you don't eat
for three days, right, your body just kind of feeds
off itself. But yeah, that's just something I'll I'll never understand.
It's it's wild and uh yeah, like I said, some

(39:41):
days I would have a full breakfast, but it just
wasn't enough and I'm at the gym just kind of
like woo a little a little woozy. So yeah, and
to get into the this is just going to the
gym to get into an actual ring. Holy shit, that's
that's wild. So uh, but yeah, Crow has is an
excellent performance. You know, well if we forget, because he's

(40:01):
been kind of coasting doing like direct to direct to video,
kind of secret movies as they called things he didn't
even know or they fly under the radar you see
him pop up on streaming on two B or whatever.
But the man is a great actor and he's got
a you know, he shines in this movie. There's one
scene where he goes to like a social club full
of boxing promoters and basically begs for money to make

(40:24):
ends meet. That didn't actually happen in real life, but
he's very affecting. You know, I'm not made of stone. Okay,
my liver is, but I'm not. You know, I was,
it got me, I was.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
I was.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
It was an emotional scene and I think it works
because of his acting skills.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
So uh.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Speaking of acting, Giamatti plays his manager Joe Gould, always excellent, skinny, clean, shaven,
the baby faced Giamatti. It was a lot of fun
to watch. Got nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor,
lost to George Clooney and Siriana. But I'm not sure
if what how fair that is. That was the year
when Crash won Best Picture, so that year was just

(40:58):
a mess.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
They won't win Overcrash, So yeah, that was gonna work,
but still a good film, roll though likes still a
good film. A big part of it when it comes
to boxing films is being able to capture the era
without the air being overpowering. Right, So we knew it
was in the nineteen twenties nineteen thirties timeframe, but we
weren't reminded every scene of that why they set the

(41:22):
scene and they kind of let it go. They didn't
have to remind us every scene, which was which was
really cool.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Sure, sure, none that you bring up the era, though,
I was thinking, and you know, this movie aside, since
we're in this era twenty twenty five years earlier, we
could have made an excellent Jack Johnson movie. You know,
if you listen to episode seven of our podcast, we
talked about the legend of Jack Johnson. Didn't we just
make boxing history but American history, and I think that

(41:47):
there's more stories about different boxers should be should be made.
And Jack Johnson has a hell of a story. Why
don't we have a Jack Johnson boxing period piece, prestige,
oscar bait, you know, drama? What are we missing?

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Well, he's black, okay y. When it comes to boxing movies,
it feels like the ones that do well, you know,
focus on the white boxers. I mean, put it this way.
Rocky has been a series for since the late seventies
and it's still going on to this day in some way,

(42:23):
shape or form. And they put up a statue of
him in Philly before Joe Fraser. Let you know about
what to demand and what is not. Also, here's the thing,
this is very financial based. So putting up fifty million,
one hundred million four a project, I don't know if
you can get the people who signed those checks to

(42:46):
do that for Jack Johnson. Hell, I don't know if
you get somebody do that for Tyson, you know. So
this is one of those things where it all comes
back to money. It all comes back to who's putting
up the money and how's that going to go? Now?
Jack Johnson's story is very interesting I don't know. I ver
get eighty eight million behind it. I just don't see it.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Sure, And just the point, just to jump off the
point you made first off, Philly, I love you. You're
an amazing city, but that rocky statue is dumb. Please
take it down and put one up with Joe Frascher now.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
But it took a long time, Like.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Sure, well, I get what you're saying. Yeah, you know
you're not gonna get eighty eight million for a Jack
Johnson story. But I don't know. I think, first of all,
that's a lot of money for even a movie, especially
back then it was oscar bait, so those that was
a time when studios were a little bit more willing
to prop up movies that were could be award winners.
Maybe they'll make a huge profit, but I don't know.

(43:40):
With less of a with a smaller budget and a
film about Jack Johnson's story, there's a lot of drama there.
But also, yeah, you're right, there's a lot of racial
and racism drama in it that a lot of people
don't just don't want to hear. You know, this is
a feel good story. The Great Depression. People were starving,
and you know, he worked his way up, pulled himself

(44:00):
up by his bootstraps, so to speak. That sells. But
do movies about black and black black and brown boxers
not sell because there's not an audience or is there
not an audience because they're not being made. You know,
studios take more monks on those.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
There's not an audience. Unfortunately, there's not an audience because
what happens is this, if there was people who wanted
to say a movie, they would figure it out. There's
not audience, and they know what sells. Right, A white
boxer overcoming the odds is going to do very well
because you're gonna get different people goes to the movie.

(44:36):
A black boxer doing that, you're probably gonna get black
people in a handful of boxing fans.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, I guess, I guess that's true. I just kind
of maybe part of the thing that we do here
is encourage people to seek out more stories for you know,
black and brown fighters. They're just even black and brown characters.
You know, filmmakers, screenwriters, et cetera. You know, it's if
it doesn't make as much money, then you could make
something good on a small budget. Speaking of Jim Braddick,

(45:03):
you know, Something that that I think is very interesting
about his history is actually his decision to fight Joe
Lewis after he won the heavyweight title from Max Bear.
So at the time, the next contender was a German
guy named Max Schmelling. He was propped up by Nazi
Germany as like the perfect example of white supremacy. But

(45:25):
Braddock's team didn't really like the idea of a representative
for the Nazis getting a shot at the title. So
at the same time, Joe Lewis, who's a black man
from Alabama, he knew that if Schmelling won the title
from Jim Braddock, there's no way in hell the Nazis
would allow black man to fight for right. So Bradick
and Joe Lewis agreed to this, agreed to a fight.

(45:46):
They had to defy the New York Athletic Commission because
New York said, we're not even sanctioning in this fight.
If you don't fight Max Schmelling, we're not going to
make this fight legit. So they went to Chicago. They
still had to fight the Illinois Athletic Commission. So and
the fact that Joe Lewis then won the heavyweight title
from Braddock made him, you know, made him a name,

(46:07):
made him famous. He then became the guy that was
propped up by the United States to beat Schmelling, to
defeat the Nazis. Joe Louis met FDR. You know, he
had a lot writing on him. So I think that's
a really interesting story that could also use a movie.
You know, a lot of drama there that could be
a milk from But cud of, I don't know what
would you be interested in the Joe Louis movie.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I mean, there should be several of them because of
all the things that have gone on around his situation
and around that timeframe and just in general. However, again,
it's not necessarily us like we're gonna watch regardless. Whenever
you have these big films, you gotta appeal to the masses.
You need every demographic, not necessarily going to your movie,

(46:46):
but talking about your movie, like, oh, you know, I've
been about seeing that movie, And it's just hard to
do that when we don't have some sort of storyline
with the movie outside of someone's autobiography. Yeah, I mean
that's the thing that's tough. Man. Remember now that the
studios are only making money, that are only making films
that sell. They're not just taking a law. They're not

(47:06):
going into a film taking a loss on it. It
might take a loss, but they're not going into that
saying all right, we're gonna put twenty into it. If
we get it back in two years, so be it. Nah,
that's out that there's no way. So unfortunately it's just
the funds. I don't see who signs off on the
funds part of this situation.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
That is unfortunate and something that is very true nowadays
with movies that maybe they don't make all their money
back in theatric or run, but they used to make
that money back in DVD sales, you know, flurry sales.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Definitely make their money back. A lot of its international money,
right Also that well, they make a lot of money
in international, So a lot of the movies end up
being okay. But they have a certain expectation of how
much money they're gonna make, so they don't meet that marker.
Business does not go on as it's supposed to be.
That's the thing I think people should take, you know,
take a look at not necessarily how much it makes,

(47:57):
how much it didn't make. It is ever internal marker
they set for themselves and keep the ball rolling. That's
the thing. And that's where when it doesn't need to
projecting him ount, that's when it gets tricky.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Sure, But then does that mean what are we never
going to get a movie about a black fighter ever again?
Because the George for.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Which you know exactly. So here's the thing. If you
put money in pub behind that and that doesn't work,
then go look for everybody else. You can't really do
a movie about Floyd. That doesn't work. It just doesn't
like we've supposed. Also, we've seen Floyd, like, we've seen
the behind the scenes, we've seen social media, so that

(48:39):
that doesn't work. I just don't see another person. Now
here's the thing. I think Oscar de Laoia, if done well,
would be a very good movie.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I don't know how.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
I'm not the director to do it, that's not my job,
but I think that would have an opportunity to be
a very good one because he has a lot of
fighting stuff, you have a lot of business stuff, you
have a lot of personal stuff, and at the point
in time, he was the face of boxing once upon time.
So I think that, yeah, that's someone if I were
to invest money into a boxing film, it would be

(49:11):
his because I think you would have enough there to
captivate all demographics to seeing what's going on.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
It might be a good movie for Robert Rodriguez actually
because he's he's a Mexican American. He's from Texas, so
you know, then Oscar deloya Is fame was always with
like we're Mexican born or sorry, American born Mexicans, like
more American Mexicans. Yeah, yeah, but I don't know, I mean,
I think I agree that would make great story. I
think in general, you know, these kinds of period pieces,

(49:40):
it worked better the farther removed we are so from.
For a fighter that has to either be really old
or really dead, I think a period sorry about Jack
Johnson and jo Lewis would be more likely to hit
the Defloyd movie or Deloya movie. I think personally, just
because there's that much time removed, you know, there's you're
able to do a little bit more research on the history.

(50:00):
And but you know, yeah, like you said, these days
you're seeing a movie about a guy that we watched
on TV when we were kids. Like, I don't know,
I personally find that a little bit that's interesting. I
sure you don't want to. You know, when you go
to the movies to learn things, that's what documentaries are for.
But it is cool to come out with a little
bit of knowledge didn't have before.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
So that's why I think Dala Hoy would probably be
the best one, because there's so much there, and it
was before social media. It was a lot of us
really before the peak of the internet, really like for
two thousands, hey me, his career up to that point
was very fascinating, but from two thousand and now it's
been a whole different career. So I think there's a
lot of meat on the bone there. I think a
lot that it could be done, and it would be

(50:39):
interesting to see if, if who can captivate that. But
also he'd have to be open to sharing his life
with someone to do the movie. I don't know that's
something he's willing to do.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I don't know, Maybe not now, maybe when he's ninety.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yeah, it could, but that would be unfortunate because most
of us, you know, we wouldn't be one of movies
at that point. We probably be uh streaming it or
you know, our phones by then. But it's just one
of those things. I don't I think there's a time
for it. I don't know when that time is, but
there's definitely a time for it. He means a lot

(51:13):
of boxing because you can argue about how good or
battle promoter he was or is or whatever. There's pros
and cons to how he does business, but you can't
not mention him from fighting to promoting and the overall
business of boxing. He's one of the most important people
in the sport, that's that the sports ever had. So

(51:35):
it would be very interesting to see if a movie
could be done about him. It would be calculating if possible.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Tery Bill. And here's another angle on this is that, yeah,
it'd be cool to learn about the insight story of
someone like De la Hoya, who a lot of the
people who are even casual boxing fans have heard that name.
But who the hell knew about jib Reddick before cindroll
Man like he was? Was he a popular figure? I'd
never heard of him. It's like these movies are would
bring people out.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
So with him, with Braddick, the people so supposing a
lot of people want a lot of money that day
when he when he had upset, a lot of people
want a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
And back then you knew who control the money and
how that goes. So those stories always tend to come
down generation duration. Oh yeah, your uncle or your father
or your grandfather, your great great grandfather won this amount,
this amount, this amount. It's like an old wi like
an old wives tell you know. Okay, you know, so
you combine that with the overall story and everything, and

(52:31):
now you got a two and a half hour film.
And then you mentioned Joe Lewis and you mentioned some
other things. You mentioned the depression, So you mentioned all
those things like, ah, got it, I see where I
see where it comes in at. But you are correct,
The average, viable, average boxing fan would have no idea
what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Well, you know, it's funny. I'm glad that you mentioned
that specifically about the you know, the stories passed down
through generations, because I just it just clicked the Remember
I read that Ron Howard, he's he's a NEPO baby.
His dad, Rance Howard was in Hollywood for years and
and Howard said that his dad remembered listening to the
Braddick Versus Verified on the radio, so he always talked
about it growing up. So that's kind of a personal

(53:09):
story for Rad in a way. So that actually makes
perfect sense. It's a really good perspective on that.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
You know, think about how we think about Tyson, right,
Think about we're in our late thirties, think about what
we saw. Think about what our parents and relatives saw,
and how that information has been passed down to our
generationw we passed information down to our you know, younger siblings,
younger people, so they like that and we have a

(53:36):
lot more information than they did back then. So trying
to picture like that and then picture how we view Tyson. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Now that's you know, another side of that coin. So
you know, we were both born after Muhammad Ali was
no longer active, right, but you know, as growing up
a boxing fan, you know, I knew of him as
the legend. You know, this is larger than life legend.
And here's the story I've never mentioned to you. When
I was in college, I went to go see David Copperfield,
the Magician, perform in Phoenix. Right close to the end

(54:05):
of the the end of the show, he's like, thank
you everybody for coming. I just want to give a
you know, special shout out to my great friend. When
the best friends of the world, the champ mister Muhammad Ali.
And then Muhammad Ali himself stands up and I was like,
is this gonna be like a bit like, is this
part of his act is going to be a guy?
Like that's gonna he's gonna turn into doves or turtles
or something. And it was actually hit me. Turned around.

(54:26):
I was like maybe like five or six rows away
from Muhammad Ali again, never saw him fight myself, but
still just being in the room, it was like a wild,
like electric feeling, and everybody couldn't believe it. They were
just like, wait, what did he say? Who?

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Holy shit? Right?

Speaker 2 (54:41):
So yeah, I know I felt that like being in
the room with the legend himself, you know, I it
was amazing. This is you know, when he was older.
I didn't know at the time as well that he
had that he retired in Phoenix, he had a home
out there, so I was totally blindsided. Yeah, so so
I get that, you know, I I guess I just
keep going back to you know, there's so many stories
to tell, so many our more amazing films that could

(55:03):
be made with you know, great writers, great directors. You
know Barry Jenkins, Jack Johnson movie. You know that that
would fucking crush it that maybe wouldn't make a lot
of money, but it would probably win all the awards
in the world.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
And that's the thing right now. If a movie is
not gonna make money, yeah, no chance, like you have
no you need you need to have like a popular
athlete to get behind it from the get go for
to have any action. And even then it's gonna be problems.
Like it's just so much politics and so much finances,
financial stuff that it's really difficult.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Well, I guess even to be fair, and you know,
my thoughts are my opinions and thoughts are evolving during
this conversation that's happening in real time. But I guess
the movies like Cinderella Man wouldn't even be made as
much today, you know, that big of a budget for
a movie that's not like a superhero movie, you know,
or a CGI action fest that kind of thing. It
at best, if if a studio trying to make Cinderella

(55:57):
Man today, it might be like a Net Netflix original
series or.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Something correct would hit the spring these days, exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, they're right, there's so many movies that aren't being made,
you know, the old legal thrillers, you know, mid budget
legal thrillers.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Shout out for a three season situation exactly, a three
season show or four season show on Netflix or Amazon
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
That wouldn't get promoted and nobody would hear about it.
We would hear about it in his mouth.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Hey you see this? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
No, that's why I mean, yeah, we're we're kind of
we're losing out on potential stories because of the way
that hollywoods running these days. And I just said, you know,
I don't want to be like the old washed son
of a bitches like back in my day, but you know,
we need a little bit more throwbacks, you know, throwbacks,
more movies like Cinderella Man again, good movie. I just
can't help but think about what are the stories we're

(56:48):
missing out there, And you know, the stories of like
Joe Lewis meeting FDR and being the hope of the
nation to fight the Nazis, that's a lot more interesting
to me. No disrespect to to Ron Howard, uh but anyway, Yeah, here,
we rate movies out of four gloves, So how would
you rate Cinderella Man.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Or a boxing movie? Is three point seven five? Because
that was really good, the acting, the extel, the budget
played out the way it was supposed to everything was,
Everything went how it was supposed to go, So I
would say three point seven five.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
It's a three point five. The final boxing match is amazing.
It really well choreographed for the well shot, really exciting, thrilling.
Sometimes these movies kind of rush through the matches themselves,
which I get. You know, it can get boring if
you're I always struggled the reason I don't watch a
lot of boxing movies because I watched real boxing, so
it just doesn't really Yeah, it makes it a little

(57:42):
less exciting. So you got to really really do an
excellent job at filming choreographing a match to make it
interesting for me. And I think this movie did it.
You know that the very first actual match we see
in Creed, directed by Ryan Coogler, all one shot, phenomenal.
I love what that. I watched just that that scene

(58:03):
alone anytime, and I'm thrilled, and I think this movie
stood the test. I think that's I think that's part
of what also makes a good boxing movie is if
you're a boxing fan, can you still watch the fight
and be hooked, intrigued and you know, not bored. Because
it's obviously not not the same. I think this movie
pulled that off. So yeah, you know, check out Cinderella Man,

(58:25):
and you know, let us know what you think in
the comments, send us an email. Give you the email
address at the end of the show. But before we bail,
we've got a mail back question from a listener. Are
you ready for this one?

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Sure? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (58:37):
This one is from a listener named Michelle B. And
her question is what is the most outrageous excuse you've
heard for a loss? In the ring.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Man? I said, the most outrageous one. I don't like that.
I hear often is the hometown one. Someone found their hometown.
It wasn't focused, it wasn't right mentally and got dropped,
or I'd be the last one. I just a light.
I'm not a fan of it. It happens too often.
You know, it hasn't happened as much anymore, but you
step it a lot. I remember that Judah fighting in

(59:11):
the garden and him getting knocked up. I believe that's
where the crazy walk or dance happened. I'm not mistaken.
You know he got to hit so bad that you
know he was basically crip walking in the ring. You know,
I remember Corey Spinks fighting in Saint Louis after he
wont to belt. I remember him, you know, getting dry eye,
but remember him losing as well. So yeah, I mean

(59:33):
there's there are several little instances, but that's the one
to me. That is like the oh I was fighting
at home, wasn't focus blah blah blah. Like nah, man,
if anything, you're at home, you want to focus more
because you want to put in a show in front
of your people.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Yeah, the people from high school are going to be there.
You don't want to embarrass yourself in front of everybody from.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
High school, friends, enemies, the women. If that's what you
do everything. You know, some guys there. I don't know,
but I know I was boxing and I wanted to
push one of my hometown and I knew all the
woman was out there, I'd be trying to close the show.
I'd be trying everyone out. So yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
All the all the girls in high school that I
was gonna say, thought I was a nerd. No, I
was a fucking nerd. Back then. Girls didn't look at
me once, much less twice. If I went back to Houston,
the box all hell though, I'd be like tip top
shaved trading twenty four hours a day, right for six months? Yeah, no,
I get that. So that's a good one. I have
a very specific one person, one event one excuse uh

(01:00:31):
Deontay Wilder in his rematch with Tyson Fury. Do you
remember that one?

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Unfortunately I do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
So Deonta came out in like this actually really awesome
looking costume for his ringwalk. It looked amazing. It was
like like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
A Black Knight costume and all that shit. Yeah, it
was like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Half half Master Shredder, half a Saluron, half Gundom. That's
like three halves. But it looked great. But then he
said after he lost that rematch, he said, oh, you
know that the costume was too heavy. It was like
forty pounds. My legs gave out. I was too tired.
I couldn't, you know, pull it out during the match.
But like, if that's the case, don't wear that shit, man, right,

(01:01:07):
what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
The thing about boxing is that it's not very visually dynamic,
you know, especially when you're just wearing gloves, shorts and shoes.
So I personally appreciate when you know, a fighter breaks
out like a cool outfit, or you know when they
have like tassels on their shorts. I think something like that.
It's cool some brightly colored shoes or designs on them.
I love that stuff. But you can just have like

(01:01:31):
a I don't know, make your row, a design on
your robe or something, or something that's some kind of hat.
Don't wear a goddamn forty pound suit of armor if
it's going to be that big a deal. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
No, I'm with you. I'm with you. But also, here's
the thing too that you got to make sense of
is why you control that. No one told you to
do that. That's on you. Why even you got paid
a bunch of money to do it, that's still on you.
You're not getting paid more than what you get paid
to fight. That's a new decision. That's not something that
you're forced to do. That's the thing that you did.

(01:02:05):
So I have no no sympathy at all.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yeah, I got you. I mean, hey, you know what,
he looked great his his outfits. He Deonta is usually
known for wearing outlandish costumes. Just google like Deontay Wilder
costume and you see a few of them. They look awesome,
But hey, man. Yeah, nobody asked you to wear that shit, right,
So all right, that'll do it. For episode ten, Jamison,
where can people find you on social media?

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
What is the best spot at the Jamison? I'm on
there usually whenever there's a big fight on or fight
on general music, tuning in, making a couple of comments
here or there. Just want to keep it, you know,
just keep it, you know, flowing. You know, you never
know who you run into. Like I said, one day,
I was Sweeten and Al Bernstein you know, tweeted back.
And for those that don't know, he's the one back

(01:02:49):
on ESPN at boxing. He was the guy based on
the face of ESPN Boxing, so it was good to
you know, ironically interviewed him a few times and whenever
it's final or wherever box is the topic, he'll chime in.
So it's always good. Good for that, you know, interaction.
That's great.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Now, shout out to Al bernsteing the shout out to
all of the amazing illustrious sports commentators like him and
like Jamison Welsh and the Classic Alcoholics. So follow me
at the Classy Alcoholic on Instagram and Blue Sky. The
podcast has its own Twitter account at Mixed Co Podcast.
Subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Amazon Music.
Please leave us a five star review. It only takes

(01:03:30):
you a minute and it helps more than you can
possibly know. We have an official show email address. If
you have any questions for the mailbag, fun stories about
watching boxing and Mixed Company, or hate mail, send it
all to letters at mixedcopodcast dot com. That email address
is letters at mixedcopodcast dot com and then'll do it
for us. Episode ten officially Double Digits. Don't forget that

(01:03:50):
the Mixed Company podcast drops every other Thursday, so join
us on March thirteenth for another round of boxing news
and fuego takes. Thanks so much for listening and it