May 22, 2025 • 50 mins
Sports bettor and boxing analyst Jamieson Welsh is once again joined by cohost and boxing superfan The Classy Alcoholic for another fun episode of Mixed Company! The duo discussed the updates to Canelo vs Crawford and whether they are a bad sign of things to come; before shifting the focus to rehydration clauses and whether fighters can do themselves a disservice with massive weight fluctuations near fight night. They closed things out in their 'Pop Pugilism' segment with a really engaging breakdown of the 1996 Documentary, Muhammad Ali: When We Were Kings.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In this corner standing it six foot five, weight class
unknown hailing from Sin City, Las Vegas. Jamison Welch and
in this corner standing in five foot nine, Wayne Towns
with six wins, three losses, two arrests, four late.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Payments on student loans.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And two total bankruptcies hits Doug Classy, I'll go home,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome back to another edition of the Mixed Company Podcast.
Of course, I'm one of your hosts, Jamison Welsh. As always,
I enjoyed my v Classy alcoholic Classy.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
What's going on, Jamison? You know what?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I am actually feeling kind of feisty today, and it's
not just because of the chief tequilab and pounding all morning.
There's some updates on the potential fight of the year
that I wanted to talk about. Some people may not
think these changes are a big deal, but I think
they have bigger implications for the state of boxing today
and it's a good follow up to the discussion that
we had.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
In our last episode. So you want to dive in.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Absolutely all right, So the big fight, Canelo Alvarez versus
Bud Crawford was officially announced a few weeks ago by
Saudi boxing promoter Turkey Ella Shake. He said it would
be Friday September twelfth the Allegiant Stadium in Vegas, your
neck of the woods. But just a couple of days
ago he announced on Twitter that oopsie, the fight is
actually now on Saturday, September thirteenth. Why because a Legion
(01:32):
stadium wasn't actually available at that unov is playing Idaho
State and Allegiant on the twelfth, So not only is
the date different, but now there's a chance to fight
won't even be in Vegas the story as it could
be in New York or LA. And you know what,
I'm sorry, but this is bush league shit. You're a
billionaire promoter who supposedly cares so much about saving the
(01:54):
sport of boxing, and I'm sure you have a team
of hundreds of people around you and you can't even
be bothered to check the sign in sheet for the
take you announced, Like I seem, it may not seem
like much, but to me, it's just one more example
of Turkeyela Ship trying to trying to flex his ownership
of the sport. And then the important details like where
when the fight will actually happen, and you know we'll
(02:14):
cross that border when we come to it. That is important,
not as important as making sure I'm front and center
and people know I'm the guy making all these events
happen happening, and it's a it's a little it's a
little disappointing and just kind of bugs me out, for
you know, what the state of boxing is and the
Saudi money that goes into it.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
But what's your take? Am I onto something or am
I just being dramatic?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think, first and the foremost nation have gotten what
unov to move that football game to Friday. That could
have been done. I think if you talk to the
if it goes down properly, there's too much money involved,
Like there's too much money at stake, right, There's ways
to get things taken care of. That's the first thing. Secondly,
most importantly is this. It feels like the monetary value
(02:57):
of things is getting the preferential treatment more than the
boxing itself. We're not talking about boxing actually anymore. We're
just talking about how much money is at stake. And
I think that is not a good sign, only because
at the end of the day, the boxing is still
the boxing and the quality is bad. People will now
you know, all because boxer was making a bunch your money.
(03:18):
That's fine. Never wont to take away from that. However,
if the quality is batter we're just throwing matches together,
throw money at it, then we have a totally different
issue at hand.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Absolutely, And look, I'm not gonna be a hypocrite here.
If you listen to the previous episode when the fight.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Was announced, I was hooting and hollering.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
You know, I was excited. I'm still excited about the fight,
and I said, you know, credit to all the shake
for putting this out there. So I'm not going to
change that and say that you know, I'm no longer
excited that this was bullshit all all along. But you know,
we've had discussions about Saudi money and boxing, Saudi money
and boxing before, and I'm just getting more and more
(03:58):
down on the whole idea. You know, you said that
not all money is good money, and you know, I
worry if the quality of the fights that we had
on Secret Tomia Weekend on side of money is going
to continue.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Where is this going to lead our sport, our favorite
sport in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So it's a gift in the curse because we're getting
matchups like we wanted to get Canal versus Crawford, so
that's a matchup we all want to see. So this
is what it took to get it. We kind of
live with it now. All that being said, how long
does this work? How long does this last? Man? If
they're just trying to put money into a sport to
flex their muscle, then I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If they're serious about making the sport better and making
sure we get the best matchups, that's cool too. I
just don't see the return on the investment. Outside of course,
the Canal and Property fight. That's a totally different thing,
But in general, I don't see the return on investment. However,
they may not be in it for that. They might
be in it for to make their presence known in
American sports. So there's a lot of things here in
(04:57):
play that we don't know the exact I would have
just yet. Things could change and might change going forward,
but as of right now, there's full a lot of
things that are unclear right And.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
The more time that passes, the more I am of
the opinion that you know, they're flexing their muscle in
the boxing world, in the sporting world, et cetera. But
I guess I think it's going to come back to
a bigger issue overall that we have in this country
that anytime a rich guy says jump, you know where
everybody's falling all over themselves. People are treating having a
(05:29):
lot of money as a virtue and an expertise in
all things. And I'm just tired. It's just I think
it needs to stop. I think this guy comes in,
you know, these are turcula she a literal billionaire, mind you.
So he comes in, buys up the ring magazine, sets
up all these fights, and everybody acts like it's the
greatest thing that's ever happened, without asking these questions that
we're asking right now. You know, what is it going
(05:51):
to happen to the sport? What's going to happen if
you know we talked about last time, there is a
saudy monopoly on boxing.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's not quite there, but it's pretty close. And uh,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I think that we're seeing a lot of we're seeing
a lot of unintended consequences or tangential consequences to the
boxing world that it's not making me optimistic.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh well, I will put it this way. If we
get the matchups we want to see. We won't care.
Like that's the thing. At the end of the day.
As long we get the matchups and the fights are good,
we're not going to trip over the business part of it.
I think the only time we'll trip over the business
part is of money doesn't get paid out, or if
there's some funny stuff with the contracts something like that.
(06:39):
But as long as the fights are good and the
money's paid out, I don't think we're gonna have an
issue unless they're trying to force political messages through the sport,
and that's a whole different thing, and I don't think
you can really do that. So, you know, I think
at the end of the day, if the boxing is
of quality, we won't care. What'll we have be actually,
(07:01):
but the back end has to be a lot cleaner,
and we're used to megafights being cleaner when it comes
to location, when it comes to dates, when it comes
to all that stuff. They want to have it in Vegas.
Vegas has a football stadium. If they can't have it
in Vegas on that Saturday, they have other options. They
got Vegas, they have La they got Arizona, they got
(07:23):
New York, they got Houston, every put every big city
in this country, they got Dallas. Every big city in
this country has a football stadium where they can put
seventy thousand people in the stadium to watch two guys
slug it out. So I'm not as concerned in general.
I'm just more intrigued on what's the overall play here,
(07:46):
because we've seen the Saudi money get involved with golf,
We're seeing them being a rumored getting involved in other
professional sports. They're all in and boxing. They're the ones
getting guys paid, which is good and bad. I'm just
trying to see the overall player. Are they trying to
control boxing? Are they trying to like what's the end game?
(08:07):
That's what I'm more concerned about.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Well, and on this kind of same note, you know,
I've been learning some more within the last couple of weeks,
and you know, there's I found out that there's a
lot of Saudi money in Arizona. They're buying farmland to
grow alfalfa to ship off ti Airs, and this is
something I didn't know until recently. They're watering alfalfa, shipping
it off back to the Saudi Arabia, and they're using
(08:30):
a lot of our water here in the desert to
do that, and it's all legal. It's all above board,
nothing shady, nothing, you know, behind the scenes, but it's
concerning you know, the problem that well I shouldn't even
say problem, but the thing that has come up is,
you know, there's some officials that are trying to stop that,
but everyone's saying, like, hey man, they put in legit money,
they put in a legit bid, They're using the water
(08:50):
as per the rules.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
The problem is the rules suck.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
You know, there's no limit to what they can use,
and you know it's it's it's gonna hurt us very
very soon here in Arizona. And they know it's the
Colorado River, which we share with this entire area. So yeah,
this is tangentially related, but I bring it up because
it's it's part of the same basic discussion of you know,
we're where is going to happen to all this when
(09:13):
all of this money and whatever the political issues with
Saudi or a b are. You know, at the end
of the day, the people high up here in this
country will not care as long as the money's right.
You know, although that goes out the window. You know,
human rights abuses you know all that stuff, it will
not matter.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So I just kind of wish that, you know, my.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Favorite sport wasn't part of this whole concerning, you know,
issue that we get off that we've got going on.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
This all started with HBO, when HB got out of
the box, and that was the first sign that there's trouble.
Not saying it was into the world, but I was
the first sign. And then the PBC thing on Fox
and CBS. Once that ended, once the esp and stuff ended,
it's been a slow crawl like, hey man, what's going
on because there's no there was no solution, there was
(10:05):
no set like, hey, we're gonna go to Amazon now
and everything's Amazon. No, not really, So this has been
going on for quite a while now. We Showtime got
out the business, HBO, ESPN, PBC, everyone's from much got
out the business, sept dis owned, and that's really about it.
(10:27):
So there was a need for somebody to come in
with money that can put money toward the sport. So
I don't necessarily fault this audience. I'm just trying to
figure out what the hell is the overall goal of
this thing? Is this a short term play. Is this
how it's gonna be from here on out? Because American
businesses and outlets are not invested money in it, They're
just neither tell you that we don't believe to put
(10:50):
money into this product.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Well, and you said you said it best that as
long as the fights are good, nobody's gonna care.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But here's the what if they continue not being good?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Like everybody everybody was disappointed by Secret to My Weekend
on you know, the Canela fight, the Times Square thing.
You know what's gonna happen if that can that trend
continues and everyone just says, man, we're not gonna watch
these fights. We're not gonna pay for this pay per view,
and the Saudi's aren't making their return on their investment.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
If we get the matchups that we want, I think
will be okay. I think a big part of Single
to My A Weekend was the matchups really weren't that
great outside of like ro League and uh like, it
really wasn't that great matchup wise, right, Like we knew
why Canola was fighting, we knew the reason why. It
wasn't like, oh that's a primetime fight. Naw, it's just
tuned up fight for September. You know, but if you
(11:42):
have like a hyped up Mega weekend, let's say there's
Canela Crawford, and let's say you gotta hypathetically a secure
Boots or something like that or something of that kind
of nature, and it don't go according to plan, then yeah,
that ain't gonna fly. Man, That ain't gonna That ain't
gonna work. You know, you need the premium nights. You
need to have good, good fights with good results and
(12:04):
good action. So that's what I'm kind of curious on
how that works. But I think as long as we
get the matchups we want, we'll live with the results
because we want the matchup. We went so long without
getting matches you wanted to see for whatever reason there was.
I think we're preconditioned to automatically think doom and gloom
when it comes to that. But I honestly think if
(12:26):
we get the right matchups, we're not gonna worry bout
anything else.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
That's fair And you know, let's be real, neither of us,
you know, we can't tell the future. We know what's
going on, but anything could happen, you know, with the
rest of this year, with the who know, Canelo Crawford
as excited as I have been. We've been talking about
Canelo Crawford since the pilot episode of this show.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's been sort of a through line the entire way.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
So, but what if that fights really really sucks and
it's boring as shit.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It could happen, you never know.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I don't believe so, I don't think Bud is a
boring fighter.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But you never know what could happen, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So it's Canelo's he says that, you know, he's he
fought injured against people, and that's why his performance wasn't
very good. You know, let's say let's just say, let's
let's take him as a word to believe that, what
if Budd is a little messed up and you know,
whether he rolls his eeg a little bit, whatever it is,
He's he's not going to back out of the fight
because there's a huge bag at the end of it.
But what of his performance is disappointing and everyone just
(13:25):
you know, this fight that we've been talking to you
and I have been talking about for a year now,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It's it's a fight though.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The only thing I would say about this one is
a legacy fight to where both guys win a loser draw.
This is a fight that's gonna come up when we
discussed them, especially Bud Right, but has not fought anyone
close to Canelo, like, not even close, Like we can't
the Earl Spence he fought a couple of years ago
is not even close to in the neighborhood of what
Canelo is even now, even Canelo passes Prime or whatever
(13:55):
it might be, not not even close. So this is
a fight that whoever wins or whoever loves Orf, we
have multiple of them, they will mention this opponent first
when it comes to breaking down what happened. That's how
good of a matchup I think it can be. Now,
of course, it could be a dull fight because Crawford's
(14:15):
definitely a CounterPunch guy. He loves around a lot. He
uses his athletic ability to speed and at times he's
the aggressor. Older Canelo is more of a wait and
seek type of guy. He's not as aggressive as he
once was as a younger guy as well, So there's
there's a part of this fight that could be more
of I think it will have his parts where it's
(14:36):
very intriguing for the true boxing fans, I think it's
gonna be dope. I think for the general public that
watches boxing every blue moon, they may be a bit disappointed.
But for us purest I think it's gonna be a
hell of chess match for twelve men rounds. I don't
think anyone's gonna get dropped, but I think it's gonna
be held a chess match, going back and forth and
adjustments and saying who can do what. And I think
we'll have a good fight with moments. I think it
(14:58):
will have good moments in the fight. I don't think
we have one through twelve consistent hell raising rounds. I
don't see that part. No, that these guys are too
old for that. Sure.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, and you know, I recently went back to rewatch
the highlights of Canelo versus Billy Joe Sunders.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
That was in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
One, and it's wild how different Canelo moved back then
compared to now, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Not, even with the I thought that the Berlanga fight
was really exciting, you know not.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Berlang is not a great fighter, and Canelo is definitely better,
but Cano Berlango was big and beefy, and that made
a difference and there were a lot of punches thrown,
and I was I found it a very exciting match.
But just compared to good Canelo now to twenty twenty
one against Sonders, Holy shit, you watch those highlights and
that man was was still a smooth, slick, fast neck moving.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You know, left and right. This time he's just he's
just stiff.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
So but again that's a good that's a good advantage,
you know, being stiff, sturdy, being able to take a
punch and draining your opponent.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
That's fantastic strategy. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Speaking of the details of that fight, there's I read
in an article that supposedly there's no rehydration clause. There's
not gonna be a rehidation clause for for Canelo versus
mud Crawford.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Are you familiar with a rehidition clause and what that means?
Can you teach me them? We've seen them in more
fights over the last I would say five to ten
years than ever before. Usually I don't remember hearing about
them before then, I know it's been a thing lately.
I remember when Floyd Canelo, I believe there was a
high reader hydration clause in that in that fight. Recently,
(16:38):
there's been multiple vot if we win. Tank fought Ryan Arcia,
there was a reiter So there's been it's somewhat common.
Most of the time it's saying, hey, once the way
it happens, you can't come in over this amount, that's
normally what it is. So whether it's five pounds, three pounds,
(16:58):
ten pounds, whatever, now there's clause and you can come
in at the weight and then if you come in
twenty five pounds ever the next day, that's what it is.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Well, then there's if there's no rehidition clause. We know
the Canelo cuts weight. He he says, you know, he's
I think he said he walks around to like one
eighty five or something like that, just normally cuts it
to make to make the weight class he wants to
fight in. But if there's no clause and he can
then you know, go back up, then that's an even
bigger guy.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That Bud has to fight. And I mean, what's that.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It look like, yes, you're bigger, you're slower, but the
weight bullying is a thing, you know, it doesn't matter
how good you are. Some dude is just bigger and
be fier. You know, do you think that that's gonna
be make it even harder for for Bud who's already
going up two weight classes and what is he fighting
a guy that could fit in three weight classes up?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
You know what I mean after the.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Fact, Yeah, I mean it's gonna be fascinating to see, right,
because if Crawford uses it to his advantage, then okay,
you can meet a faster or more busy fighters out
the fight. If he's scored more points throughout the fight,
it worked towards the advantage because their one disadvantage of
not not having clause is yeah, you are okay, that's cool.
(18:14):
But with that being said, if you're slower, if that
wears you down. The other thing that no one ever
talks about as well. So it's very fascinating how these
things could work. But at the end of the day,
these boxes know their bodies, they know what's gonna be
work that works best for them, So I'm gonna trust
what they do in this regard.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well, sure, agreed, yes, but speaking specifically about Canelo, you
know he knows that what weight he's best at. But again,
he's already the bigger guy. The question is what the
hell is Bud gonna do because he's already putting on
weight and we've talked before about is that gonna make
him slower? Is he gonna be as fast on his
feet as he would before? Uh, you know, he's a
(18:55):
very strong guy. People don't never underestimate butts power, never
undrestimate Bud period. But it's still it's just kind of
like I will have a discussion about weight classes here
in a second. But if but already has to move
up and up and up, and Canelo just has to
do what he naturally does, I don't see how.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I don't see advantage.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
But in any way in these in these things again,
if sure, Canela could be slower, but he's already done it.
He already knows his speed and his you know, punching power,
et cetera, at that different at that weight range, you know,
whatever it is, what's seventy six point eight, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So what advantage what chance does Bud have here?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
The advantage is he has He's he knows who kind
of fight he wants to fight. So if he comes
in at the way he wants to, he's able to
move around and do X you plan. He has Now,
with that being said, find any guys twenty pounds are
heavier more than you. It's a tough challenge. However, if
you have the right game plan and if you trust
your abilities, I don't think I don't think it's necessarily
(19:59):
a bad thing because they're assume that Canal is gonna
come in at one eighty five one ninety and try
to use his weight in his bolt as an advantage.
So any good corner, any good camp would prepare their
fighter by hey, this is what he's gonna try to do.
We're gonna counter this and do this. We're gonna try
to be more active. We're gonna try to do this,
this and that. And also, Canelo at thirty five is
(20:19):
a different fighter. He'll be thirty five at the time
of this fight. Canela at thirty five was a different
fighter than he was four or five years ago, just
a different overall fighter. Normally, fighters as they get older,
they're not as active, and when that's the case and
you're fighting an a lead opponent, not being as active
can be a detriment to your plan that night.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Absolutely, do you know, you know a range of like
how how much a fighter loses or how much weight
a fighter cuts before a match, Like, could a guy
cut you know, there have been guys that cut fifteen
twenty I really hope. I really wish we would ask
treating Ochoa when he was here, Uh, like how much
weight somebody can actually cut before they just to know,
pass out, die, you have a stroke, whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So it everyone's different, right, So some boxers walk around
at their weight that they need to. Some guys are
right around, So if you're one forty seven, you walk
around between one fifty seven and you just you're just
always in that range. So when it's fight time, you
do what you do. There are some guys that walk
around at one sixty five and they got to cut
down twenty pounds in training camp. You know, it just
(21:24):
depends on the boxer. Everyone's different for the most part. Though,
if I had to guess from what I've heard and
everything like that, I would say about twenty pounds, between
fifteen and twenty pounds on average, which is not bad
when it's not that difficult. When you're doing what they
do in training camp, you're eating differently, you're training two
a days, you're you know, you're well conditioned, all that stuff,
(21:46):
so it's not that difficult to drop that because you're
constantly moving, you're constantly doing cardio, so that's pretty easy. Overall,
three month timespan, that's not bad at all. But when
you get like the Adrian types that you gotta cut
like forty pounds six weeks, that ain't. Man, ain't gonna work. Man,
That ain't that?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Ain't that sounds horrible?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Well, you know, I read this just It was like
a comment in another article, so don't take this as gospel.
But it did say that christianbek junior, British fighter, had
a rehidition clause that said that he couldn't hydrate after
making weight, he couldn't add on more than five pounds,
you know, and rehidiation, and supposedly his father, Christy Ebank
Senior said, uh, you know, that's that's terrible. You know,
(22:31):
the limiting his ability to hydrate properly could affect his
health and blah blah blah, which to me, I'm sorry, man,
that's not you chose to fight it that weight. But
boxing is a dangerous port. We already said you're putting
your life on the line. I want fighters to be
as safe as possible. But if you're having if your
health is going to be affected by cutting that much weight.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Don't do that shit. I'm sorry. Just fight it on
a higher weight. Find it where you are normally.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Lady pins, right, So if you're taking fire last minute,
it is what it is. You got to reach to
whatever it is. However, if you have any bargaining chips,
if you have any way to get your point across
and have a say in the matter, do what's best
for you. So if a five pound limit's not good,
you need to speak up during the contract, not during
(23:18):
the fight, like that's not gonna work. True. I don't
have any sympathy for that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Good. So that's a question that we can ask in
a professional fighters.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
But I want to see your take is in general,
why would a fighter cut so much weight to hit
a different weight class? I mean there's like I don't remember,
like a dozen more weight classes, like you can slot
into so many places. Why why why are fighters cutting
twenty pounds anyway in the first place?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
You know?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Do you mean?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I mean that's up to the fire in their camp, right,
Because the end of the day, as an athlete, your best,
your your only job is to stay in shape. That's
your main job. I should say is to stay in shape.
You shouldn't be so far gone to where it's going
to take a lot of work to get back to weight.
That should never happen. You should know your body, you
should know what your training camps usually like, and you
(24:04):
should be able to project and forecast what's going to
actually take place. And again, everybody's body is differently late.
So like, for instance, if I was in a boxer's camp,
I would have a nutritionus. I would see, we would
take your blood, we would see what foods work for you,
what foods don't, and what foods don't work for you.
We would mess with we would leave alone because we
(24:25):
want to make sure you're in the best possible situation.
So when it's fight time, it's not oh, we got
to lose fifteen pounds in two weeks or else nah,
because you and I you have a drain fighter. You've
seen face offs on Friday afternoon when one guy looks very,
very drained to the point where it looks like he
took everything out of him and they try to give
(24:47):
him to the where you need to get to. It's
not good, man, It's just you're putting your body through
a lot and it's very difficult to succeed that way.
But to be honest with you, a lot of people
just are not responsible there now responsible and they're mature.
And we've seen it happen a lot time. We've seen
guys miss wait and just take the fine. And I'm
not a big fan of that at all.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Well, and I appreciate that response, but I think I
might be splitting hairs. But we're talking about different I'm
talking about a different thing because we're talking about being
in shape and then cutting weight after that. So for example,
so I was I turned into a real fat piece
of shit in twenty twenty during the RONA like and
then I got into I got into boxing, training, sparring,
this and that, and in a year, just from working
(25:30):
out in eating healthy, I lost forty pounds. Like I
was in good shape. Let's not worry about you know
where I'm at now, this is under your business.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
This is your business.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Nobody you know, And I don't.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Have to answer that.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I'm not answering questions about my lawyer at president. But
I lost forty thousand a year just working out, in
eating healthy, not starving myself, you know, just not even
like and honestly, I didn't. I didn't stop drinking, I
didn't stop eating fried food. I just you know, head
cheet days. I definitely drank way less than than I
did before, and honestly, let's do now. So all of
(26:01):
that just the healthy lifestyle. You know, boot forty pounds.
But let's say I wanted to fight a guy that
was twenty pounds later. I'm in shape, but then I
go twenty pounds under that already, That's like that feels
just artificial and dangerous to me, because I feel that
if I then lost twenty pounds after being in shape,
I don't know, I'd feel like I would be just lightheaded,
(26:23):
fall apart health. Some days I don't have the time
to eat lunch, and by the end of the day
I'm lightheaded. So I'm just kind of curious as to
why a fighter would then put into that extra effort
to cut so much more when it could potentially be damaging.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I mean, just just fight it the best shape you're in.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I think that would be the thing, right, You wouldn't.
I don't think you would cut weight as a boxer
if you didn't need to. I think you'd only cut
weights if you have to because every boxer knows they're
desired weight and desired you know, conditioning. So if it
gets to the point where it becomes unhealthy, then they
might have qualified off because it wouldn't make sense. So
(27:01):
I think, whatever the fuck, So let's say it's up
one forty seven is hypothetically speaking, I think they would
if they would get to one forty five, they'd probably
stop doing what they're doing and just keep on whatever
path they need to get to. They're not gonna go
any further down to one forty don't like that. But
if they're at one sixty five and they got to
(27:21):
lose twenty pounds or eighteen pounds to get to a
certain point, I think that's a bit different. But cutting
weight is normally for guys that really need to. So
I'll put it this way. When you go through training camp,
you're going to lose a certain amount of weight just
by being a training camp by itself, just by being
active the amount of you gotta be active, you're gonna
(27:44):
cut weight automatically. So it really depends on body type,
It depends on the time and the boxer because everybody's
metallism is different. Obvious, the younger guys burn stuff off
real fast, so everyone's different. However, you don't want to
get in a situation where you got to cut forty
five pounds in two much. That's just not that's dangerous.
(28:04):
That's something where you've got to be very careful. Now,
cutting weight, if you're at one sixty and you can
give you at one forty seven, cutting thirteen pounds is
not that difficult, Like that's not it ain't.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Okay, Well it's difficult for me just being a fat
guy on the couch.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
But yeah, yeah, with the nutrition is traders, et cetera. No,
I get that. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Part of me feels like there should be a rehydration
clause in every fight, like if you're gonna decide to
if you're gonna cut weight and go all the way
down to fight this guy, stay in that weight class.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You know, it's my personal opinion.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You know, I don't know what justification could be made
to say, now, let's just let everybody just be whatever
weight they want. After the facts, All I'm saying is
that you made the choice you want to go to
that weight class, stick to that. You know, the five
to ten pounds limit that's fine, you know, But just
to completely say you can put on as much weight
as you and just just eat a shit ton of
(29:01):
Popeyes right before the fight and then put on twenty
five pounds, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I don't think that's I just don't think that's fair,
is what I'll say.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's not fair. But also here's the thing too, Like,
if you put it on that much before you fight
is very risky because that may not give the best performance.
You may be sluggish in the rain twelve hours later.
I think everyone's different. Now, if you're gonna slam a
bunch of water and a bunch of fluid, that's different.
(29:33):
But if you're gonna carpload and get your proteins in
all that, that might backfire. At least the liquid will
go come out of you eventually. If you eat a
bunch of food, that might not come out within a
day or so. So it's very fascinating. I said, we
would definitely need a boxer for that. Get more in
detail about that, because again, every boxer is different. Now,
for the most part, I would say eighty percent of
(29:57):
boxers are able to cut weight relatively easy and be
in be in the particular weight that they need to
be in come fight time. I would say that, now,
there are some that just have some difficulties for whatever
might be. Uh sometimes the situation where they might be.
I mean, there's some guys that need to make weight, Zoe.
(30:20):
And sometimes you're going up a weight clouds, so you
may have to make weight. So that's a whole different category.
So it's just I think it really depends. Is definitely
a fascinating thing. But with the rehid race to cause
I'm not a huge fan of them in general, but
I do understand them. I get it. But at the
end of the day, the best fight usually wins with
(30:41):
all the stuff that's out there, if the fighter is
prepared and the fighters out good, the best fire usually wins.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Well, yeah, and if you do cut too much or
then you gain too much, and then you you know,
you either lose a fighter you just barely eke out
a win, or they're probably not gonna do that again,
you know, say, well, let's stick to the weight over under.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
That you know that led me to this l or
to this disappointed performance. So I get that.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Yeah, I know, I'd love to talk more to to
professional boxers without and we'll make sure to get some
on the show and toss those questions at them. For
me personally, you know, everybody says, oh, muscle weighs.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
More than that.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know, if you work out and you get jacked,
of course you're gonna gain weight. But again, if you
when you go from a big fat piece of shit
like I was, to be really active, it was like
just drastic weight loss first, and then even with lifting too.
It's it's like it was so unbalanced that I never
actually really knew. I never never knew what it's like
(31:39):
to put on like, I don't know, three to five
pounds of muscle. I just losses just in a way,
then built some muscle up, but it never went the
other way. You know, nobody puts on ten pounds of
muscle accidentally, just you know, liftingly in the gym.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So but very interesting. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
We'll see what what this means for for Canelo Crawford.
And even though I was talking a little bit of
shit earlier about you know, Saudi money and the way
that they they're doing things right now, I still cannot
wait for this fight. It is still so it feels
like forever from now till September.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
To be honest with you, I just I'm dying to
see what.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It looks like.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, let's move on to our next segment or recurring
segment called Pop Pugilism. Every episode we discuss a movie,
TV show, or documentary about boxing, and today we're going
to be discussing a documentary called When We Were Kings
from nineteen ninety six directed by Leon Gast and this
(32:41):
film is the story of the Rumble in the Jungle,
the historic fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman in
nineteen seventy four and the country then known as Saire.
This movie was two decades in the making, and we've
seen this fight twice before Jamison, you know, in the
Ali movie and then the big George Forman movie. So
(33:01):
it was a very very important fight for both of
these guys in bostht of their lives, and we got
to see it, you know, fictionalized in both movies, and
we got to see a documentary about it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So just want to get your thoughts first, what did
you think about this.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Movie and what did you think about what it was
trying to do in terms of showing you some background
on this fight.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, so, first of all, it was a great film.
The documentary, like just in general, it's been around for
a while. It's one of the well done right. It
was a well crafted documentary, kind of gives you a
breakdown of before the fight. It's in Africa, which is
ironic because the year before we had thro lit Manila,
(33:43):
which is another hot human place in the Philippines. So
it was interesting. Back in those days we had fights
in other places like that, major fights in other places,
and now everything is domestically here for most part. But
it was just fascinating over the background of it. Obviously
the two fires when they were in their careers at
that time. Obviously the whole continent was mine Ali, so
(34:05):
that was fascinating as well. But George, I mean George
was in control of that fight most of the fight.
It just kind of punched himself out and I think
the amidity of the weather as well and just the
overall situation kind of overwhelmed them. But nine times out
of ten, Big George would have won that fight. Like
you know, we have a totally different conversation. But no,
(34:25):
it's uh, it was very fascinating, you know, and also
the Africa, it's it gets forgotten about we have the bad,
negative stereotypes about Africa. We never talked about the good
things about Africa, which is unfortunate. But it was good
to see them get their proper due in a sports
film without it being like, oh, we're talking about athletes
(34:46):
that are you know, this is that, or we're talking
about something else. They were actually able to provide a
premium event and pats fifty years ago. That's yeah, that's
pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, No, I definitely appre shed.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
You know how fights were in different parts of the globe,
you know, now you said they're domestically or they're in
riodd or they're in London. You know, there's British fighters.
Happened to me is that all the fights I see
are in US.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Rion or London.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And the thing I love about boxing is that one
of the many things I love about it is that
it's such a global sport. You know, every country in
the world has a boxer. It's it's poor poor people.
Poor countries can have boxers because you just got to
learn to throw hands. You don't need to buy like,
you know, hockey equipment and pads, you know, and a stick.
They're like, you know, all that stuff, you know, helmets
and any of that shit.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Sure you need gloves and wraps, but the first thing
you learn is technique.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
So I'm just kind of disappointed now that this movie
really put into perspective just how less global boxing seems today.
You know, we still have fighters coming all over the
world to fight here in the US fighting Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
But what about these.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Other countries that you know have their all These places
have football stadiums, soccer stadiums, football soccer stadiums.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You know, why can't we.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Go back to making amazing matchups in places that are
in US aria.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you. So,
every city has a tourism board. So whenever you bring
an event to a tourism place of tourism, you get
a you get a check, you get some funds. Two
Because you're bringing people in, people are flying in, people
are spending money, they're anny hotels, the or any cars. Uh,
(36:29):
they're eating, they're buying stuff, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So the department of tourism or the tourism board gives
the promoters a lot of money to host these events.
So it's the reason why the fights are in certain places.
It's not accident that the fights happened in Vegas, New York, La, Texas, wherever.
You You know, the Mega fights only happened in New
(36:50):
York Vegas, and you could throw in La in there.
But for the most part, it's Vegas or New York.
It's for the most part, especially out here, the of
tourism gives whoever's thrown to the event a lot of
money and perks to do so. So whenever a fight
winds up in a weird place, that means that city, state,
(37:10):
or tourism board has given them promoters something that they
normally wouldn't have done, or they've outbidden other places. That's
normally how it goes. Way back, when there's a fight
between Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander at the Silver Dome
in Detroit, and at the time, I was wondering, why
the hell is at the Silver Dome, which has been
making for years. It made no sense. Neither guys from Detroit. No,
(37:34):
it didn't make any sense at all. But I'm thinking
these are the kind of fights that somebody in the
state of Michigan gave an extra bag to somebody is
to put the event on, and those are things that
take place. So the reason why we don't give fights
in other countries like that anymore is because they're not
spending out. They're not outspending the people here and also
(37:55):
the other perks as off involved in the back end
that we will never know about.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
That's fair, and part of me thinks that, like, if
you build it, they will come, and also it'll get
more attention, you know that Just goddamn, it's been you know,
exact fifty years. We still remember the title thriller in Manila.
We still remember Rumble in the Jungle. I think if
we went back to it and gave some other places
a chance to set this up, you know, with a
(38:22):
well promoted event, flashy name, you know, bike, a big deal,
people will show up, not just like fans in the
venue there, but like people will watch. I think it's
I think it's a mistake to just be so centralized.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Even in US cities.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
You know, people have state of use that people have
football stadiums in different cities. Why not put a damn
you know, important boxing match in Wisconsin or wherever the
hell because people.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Will show up.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
You gotta have people to go. And you remember, most
of the places we have fights at it's easy to
get to. So you can't put a fight at Wisconsin
because it's not easy to get to Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
That's fair, that's our fine. Okay, you know there should
be there should be a major fight time in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
You know, I'm just yeah, I'm just saying someplace that's
not the typical till place you had mentioned earlier than
you know, there's a lot of places to put canal
overis with sorry Canelo Crawford with football stadiums and you said,
you know, oh, Dallas, maybe Arizona.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
We're not getting it in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
But yeah, no, no, that was my mess up and
much I'll here's the thing, people, they would sell out
the Cardinal Stadium. That wouldn't be an get the full
seventy thousand or whatever. Old so, but it's just not
the kind of draw and you're looking at probably La
or Texas if it doesn't happen here. But I think
(39:39):
they'll figure out a way to happen in Vegas. It's
just too much money involved, too many people that want
to come here. And yeah, it's I think it gets done. Sure.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Well back to the back to the movie. You know, uh,
it's not actually a lot of boxing in it. So
if you're somebody that's like not a sports fan, not
a boxing fan, most of it it's probably what spends
I don't know, ten minutes on the actual.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Fight, yeah, if that, if that.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, everything else is you know, the setup getting there
and the really interesting things I took about it took
out of it was Ali being shown as a as
a politically minded person.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know, we we remember the catchphrases.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
You know, felt like a butterfly, sting like a be
you know, we remember the rhymes, the poems.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Of course he's very clever, but it was very fast
and very funny and charming.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
But you know, let's not forget that man defighted the
US government because he did not want to fight in
Vietnam because he said the viet Cong never did anything
to me, they never called me.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
The N word, I will not fight them. And that
was a huge deal.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
And the movie made a good point, made a point
to say he was hated in the US, but people
in Africa loved.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Him for it, right, right, And that's the thing, especially
back then with everything going on. Yeah, they was gonna
have his back, especially with the religion stuff and the
political stuff. He was always don't have. He was gonna
be the household favorite there. However, the one thing I
wish they would have went deeper into is I wish
it would have been more evenly with the coverage, because
(41:10):
George was a big deal himself, and it felt like,
even though they did a really good job, they could
have gave George more spotlight. It felt like we focus
on George the fighter, not George the person, and I
think they focus on Ali the person and the fighter
on the other side. Just that's just me personally.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
No, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
They definitely made George for like he was an afters.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, yeah, this was the last show. And also this
guy's here, I guess whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, and that guy should have won the fight. I mean,
go back and watch it. Look at it. I mean
he was in control, he was he just gassed out.
But yeah, like that guy was damn good in his
own right. So this is kind of weird how that
pro program went, but that's how it goes. We get
out it is product, I understand.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And also very interesting is that there were some of
the talking heads in the movie said, everybody thought, you know,
on like the press and the American press thought Ali
was gonna lose, like Africa. The people in Africa were
on inside one hundred percent, but like people around Ali,
they're like, oh man, this guy's going down. So that
was very interesting to see because of course Ali is
(42:24):
very confident, you know, he's talking to shit. And then
one of the I forget, which I might have been
Norman Mayler, who said, like, honestly, we thought he was worried.
We thought Ali was actually scared beneath the bluster and everything.
So I was really I really appreciated that. It really
gave a different perspective. Another thing I really liked. Spike
Lee actually said at the time there was a division
(42:46):
between you know, black people in America and Africans, where
if you called a black guy African, there there would.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Be a fight. You know.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
That was surprising to me, and it reminded me of
the difference with Mexican culture, Mexican American culture. Oscar Deloya
was made fun of by a lot of people, including
my own mother, for being not Mexican enough. You know,
he didn't speak Spanish, you know, he played golf, He
was kind of a like. I guess the term that
I would use to to sanitize what my mother says
(43:14):
he was a pansy. He wasn't a real Mexican. You
know that there's a difference of like you. It would
be he would be better thought of if he was
more Mexican than not. You know what I'm saying it right,
which is which is fascinating. So and you know, I
love I love my mother to death, and she's definitely
come a long way and over the years and being
(43:34):
more more woke. But man, she she will talk bad
shit about Oscar Deloya to this day. It weighs in
ways and I'm like, Mom, you can't say this twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
You can't say that shit. It's Spanish or English, right
right right?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I love you?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
But yeah, So Jameson, if people who don't care about
bossing and don't care about sports, I think they can
get something out of this way. What do you think
people will get out of So how would you convince
somebody to watch this movie if they say, I don't
give a shit about boxing at all.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So I think it's better off of you didn't know
about boxing, because it's done well, we're boxing fans, so
we want more action or whatever. But that was a
regular movie watcher or a documentary watcher covering the event.
Th way they did was very good. There's a lot
of things they covered very well. So from the average person,
it's probably best off if you didn't know about boxing.
(44:25):
That's how well it was done.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Oh, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
And I don't know if you know this, but the
director actually went to Zaire to make a documentary about
the music festival that was happening alongside the fight. The
president of Mabutu then made so proceeds from the music festival,
we're supposed to find the documentary, but Macha said, you
know what, this this music fest is now free. So
(44:50):
the director was kind of like, oh shit, what am
I going to do here? You know, I can't make
a movie without funding. Then when George Foreman got injured
and the fight got delayed and people stuck aroun out
It's air, then it kind of switched the the focus
of the film to the boxers and the set up
to the fight. But there's still a lot of really
cool footage of musical performances in the movie Pepper throughout
(45:13):
because there they so it's very dynamic, so there's not
that much you know, talking heads.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
There's a there's a few interviewees.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
There's a lot of footage of you know, Ali preparing
for the fight. There's training footage. There's a lot of
music in it. Kind of reminded me of Sinners actually,
because they took musical breaks here and there, just simly
enough shout out to Sinners.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Amazing movie. Go see that if you haven't already.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
But yeah, and there's just a little bit of everything,
and it's like a dynamic and it's it's a strong
recommend Oh and I can't neglect that near the end,
probably less than ten minutes left to go, there was
a montage with footage and pictures. And this is how
I know I'm washed because it was said to a banger.
(45:56):
Nineties R and B song by Brian mcnight and Diana
came banger, and it made me nostalgic for that like
specific style of nineties R and B. Uh, to the
point that I went back and put on that, uh,
that big Brian McKnight's song today that you don't where
he's like, what you let a.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Dream come true?
Speaker 4 (46:16):
You remember that from when we were kids, put that
on today, I was like, fuck, that was, Like I said,
I became nostalgic because now I've watched as Hell. So
definitely shout out to the movie for ending on a
on a banger song. Uh so here, you know, we
rate movies out of four gloves. It's always kind of
(46:36):
difficult for me to rate documentaries.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
But this one, this one, this one is.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Very stylish, you know it. It is specifically made to
be cinematic. So yeah, you know, what are your thoughts?
Out of four gloves, what would you give this movie?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's a three point five. It does the job very
well for showcase from the event, Like it puts the
event and it gets you prepare for the event. It
gives you a great breakdown of the event if you're
a person that had no knowledge of boxing, no knowledge
of the gentlemen that we're fighting. It did a very
good job of showcasing the actual event. So I think
it did its job. I just felt that they can
(47:11):
have more boxing in it. Whether it talked about the
previous fights that guys had with other opponents, bestally Joe Fraser,
who was a common opponent above for theirs. You know,
those are things I could have get a little bit
more lead on, but in general, for the event itself,
it held a job.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the same. I'm a
little higher on it. I would go three point seven
to five.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I just you know, we talked so much about boxing,
and I love and I love talking about the fights
and this and that the history that this was so
much skewed in the other direction that it was refreshing
and it.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Was really nice to see. You know, there's a reason
we still, you know, remember Muhammad.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Ali finally today, and you know it's not only because
of his personality and just the way he was quick
on his feet, both in the ring and also mentally,
but also you know, like I said, I really like
the political aspect they brought in.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
You can't deny that that part of him and why
he was so so beloved because of that as well.
So I really appreciated it.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
I think that it's definitely worth a watch, and if
you were into physical media as I am. This is
available on Blu ray and DVD from the Criterion collection
Spine number nine ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
I wrote that down, so check it out.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
It's very short. I think it's like the ninety minutes
or something like that, or maybe a little lessan ninety minutes. Yeah,
so worth your time, your in and out, You're going
to learn something. At the very least, you're going to
learn something about Africa that you know maybe not a
lot of people, not only people know a lot about that,
(48:43):
but that continent. So I took an African politics class
in college. That was very interesting, but that was a
long time ago and that shit is long gone that
I drank all that knowledge away. So it was really
nice to just to learn something. So check it out,
y'all recommend Let's get here, Let's get out here Jamison.
Where can people find you on social media and on
(49:06):
Twitter at view Jamison.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
I'm on there for all the fights. Always good to
interact with people's going to watch the fights, all that
good stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Hell yeah, you can follow me at the Classy Alcoholic
on Instagram and Blue Sky. A quick shout out to
my buddies who hosts a Star Wars podcast called Han
Took Shots First. They were kind enough to invite me
on to discuss the second and final season of the
show and or It's an excellent show.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
I had a lot of fun discussing it and joking
around with my guys Derek and Jack.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
So check out Han Took Shots First on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you follow
our show on Twitter at mixed co Podcast. Subscribe to
us on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Amazon Music.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Please leave us a five star review.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
It only takes a minute and it helps us helps
us out way more than you can possibly know. And
we have a show email address. If you have any
questions for the mailbag fun stories about watching boxing and
Mixed Company. If you have hate mail, any quesquestions about
you know, the boxing, training, boxing business, send it all
to letters at mixedco podcast dot com. That's letters at
mixedco podcast dot com. And don't forget we drop new
(50:12):
episodes every other Thursday. So please join us again June
fifth for more news and more spicy takes from the
boxing world.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Thank you so much for listening. We have been the
Mixed Company Podcast salut
In this corner standing it six foot five, weight class
unknown hailing from Sin City, Las Vegas. Jamison Welch and
in this corner standing in five foot nine, Wayne Towns
with six wins, three losses, two arrests, four late.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Payments on student loans.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And two total bankruptcies hits Doug Classy, I'll go home,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome back to another edition of the Mixed Company Podcast.
Of course, I'm one of your hosts, Jamison Welsh. As always,
I enjoyed my v Classy alcoholic Classy.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
What's going on, Jamison? You know what?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I am actually feeling kind of feisty today, and it's
not just because of the chief tequilab and pounding all morning.
There's some updates on the potential fight of the year
that I wanted to talk about. Some people may not
think these changes are a big deal, but I think
they have bigger implications for the state of boxing today
and it's a good follow up to the discussion that
we had.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
In our last episode. So you want to dive in.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Absolutely all right, So the big fight, Canelo Alvarez versus
Bud Crawford was officially announced a few weeks ago by
Saudi boxing promoter Turkey Ella Shake. He said it would
be Friday September twelfth the Allegiant Stadium in Vegas, your
neck of the woods. But just a couple of days
ago he announced on Twitter that oopsie, the fight is
actually now on Saturday, September thirteenth. Why because a Legion
(01:32):
stadium wasn't actually available at that unov is playing Idaho
State and Allegiant on the twelfth, So not only is
the date different, but now there's a chance to fight
won't even be in Vegas the story as it could
be in New York or LA. And you know what,
I'm sorry, but this is bush league shit. You're a
billionaire promoter who supposedly cares so much about saving the
(01:54):
sport of boxing, and I'm sure you have a team
of hundreds of people around you and you can't even
be bothered to check the sign in sheet for the
take you announced, Like I seem, it may not seem
like much, but to me, it's just one more example
of Turkeyela Ship trying to trying to flex his ownership
of the sport. And then the important details like where
when the fight will actually happen, and you know we'll
(02:14):
cross that border when we come to it. That is important,
not as important as making sure I'm front and center
and people know I'm the guy making all these events
happen happening, and it's a it's a little it's a
little disappointing and just kind of bugs me out, for
you know, what the state of boxing is and the
Saudi money that goes into it.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
But what's your take? Am I onto something or am
I just being dramatic?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think, first and the foremost nation have gotten what
unov to move that football game to Friday. That could
have been done. I think if you talk to the
if it goes down properly, there's too much money involved,
Like there's too much money at stake, right, There's ways
to get things taken care of. That's the first thing. Secondly,
most importantly is this. It feels like the monetary value
(02:57):
of things is getting the preferential treatment more than the
boxing itself. We're not talking about boxing actually anymore. We're
just talking about how much money is at stake. And
I think that is not a good sign, only because
at the end of the day, the boxing is still
the boxing and the quality is bad. People will now
you know, all because boxer was making a bunch your money.
(03:18):
That's fine. Never wont to take away from that. However,
if the quality is batter we're just throwing matches together,
throw money at it, then we have a totally different
issue at hand.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Absolutely, And look, I'm not gonna be a hypocrite here.
If you listen to the previous episode when the fight.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Was announced, I was hooting and hollering.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
You know, I was excited. I'm still excited about the fight,
and I said, you know, credit to all the shake
for putting this out there. So I'm not going to
change that and say that you know, I'm no longer
excited that this was bullshit all all along. But you know,
we've had discussions about Saudi money and boxing, Saudi money
and boxing before, and I'm just getting more and more
(03:58):
down on the whole idea. You know, you said that
not all money is good money, and you know, I
worry if the quality of the fights that we had
on Secret Tomia Weekend on side of money is going
to continue.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Where is this going to lead our sport, our favorite
sport in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So it's a gift in the curse because we're getting
matchups like we wanted to get Canal versus Crawford, so
that's a matchup we all want to see. So this
is what it took to get it. We kind of
live with it now. All that being said, how long
does this work? How long does this last? Man? If
they're just trying to put money into a sport to
flex their muscle, then I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If they're serious about making the sport better and making
sure we get the best matchups, that's cool too. I
just don't see the return on the investment. Outside of course,
the Canal and Property fight. That's a totally different thing,
But in general, I don't see the return on investment. However,
they may not be in it for that. They might
be in it for to make their presence known in
American sports. So there's a lot of things here in
(04:57):
play that we don't know the exact I would have
just yet. Things could change and might change going forward,
but as of right now, there's full a lot of
things that are unclear right And.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
The more time that passes, the more I am of
the opinion that you know, they're flexing their muscle in
the boxing world, in the sporting world, et cetera. But
I guess I think it's going to come back to
a bigger issue overall that we have in this country
that anytime a rich guy says jump, you know where
everybody's falling all over themselves. People are treating having a
(05:29):
lot of money as a virtue and an expertise in
all things. And I'm just tired. It's just I think
it needs to stop. I think this guy comes in,
you know, these are turcula she a literal billionaire, mind you.
So he comes in, buys up the ring magazine, sets
up all these fights, and everybody acts like it's the
greatest thing that's ever happened, without asking these questions that
we're asking right now. You know, what is it going
(05:51):
to happen to the sport? What's going to happen if
you know we talked about last time, there is a
saudy monopoly on boxing.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's not quite there, but it's pretty close. And uh,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I think that we're seeing a lot of we're seeing
a lot of unintended consequences or tangential consequences to the
boxing world that it's not making me optimistic.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh well, I will put it this way. If we
get the matchups we want to see. We won't care.
Like that's the thing. At the end of the day.
As long we get the matchups and the fights are good,
we're not going to trip over the business part of it.
I think the only time we'll trip over the business
part is of money doesn't get paid out, or if
there's some funny stuff with the contracts something like that.
(06:39):
But as long as the fights are good and the
money's paid out, I don't think we're gonna have an
issue unless they're trying to force political messages through the sport,
and that's a whole different thing, and I don't think
you can really do that. So, you know, I think
at the end of the day, if the boxing is
of quality, we won't care. What'll we have be actually,
(07:01):
but the back end has to be a lot cleaner,
and we're used to megafights being cleaner when it comes
to location, when it comes to dates, when it comes
to all that stuff. They want to have it in Vegas.
Vegas has a football stadium. If they can't have it
in Vegas on that Saturday, they have other options. They
got Vegas, they have La they got Arizona, they got
(07:23):
New York, they got Houston, every put every big city
in this country, they got Dallas. Every big city in
this country has a football stadium where they can put
seventy thousand people in the stadium to watch two guys
slug it out. So I'm not as concerned in general.
I'm just more intrigued on what's the overall play here,
(07:46):
because we've seen the Saudi money get involved with golf,
We're seeing them being a rumored getting involved in other
professional sports. They're all in and boxing. They're the ones
getting guys paid, which is good and bad. I'm just
trying to see the overall player. Are they trying to
control boxing? Are they trying to like what's the end game?
(08:07):
That's what I'm more concerned about.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Well, and on this kind of same note, you know,
I've been learning some more within the last couple of weeks,
and you know, there's I found out that there's a
lot of Saudi money in Arizona. They're buying farmland to
grow alfalfa to ship off ti Airs, and this is
something I didn't know until recently. They're watering alfalfa, shipping
it off back to the Saudi Arabia, and they're using
(08:30):
a lot of our water here in the desert to
do that, and it's all legal. It's all above board,
nothing shady, nothing, you know, behind the scenes, but it's
concerning you know, the problem that well I shouldn't even
say problem, but the thing that has come up is,
you know, there's some officials that are trying to stop that,
but everyone's saying, like, hey man, they put in legit money,
they put in a legit bid, They're using the water
(08:50):
as per the rules.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
The problem is the rules suck.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
You know, there's no limit to what they can use,
and you know it's it's it's gonna hurt us very
very soon here in Arizona. And they know it's the
Colorado River, which we share with this entire area. So yeah,
this is tangentially related, but I bring it up because
it's it's part of the same basic discussion of you know,
we're where is going to happen to all this when
(09:13):
all of this money and whatever the political issues with
Saudi or a b are. You know, at the end
of the day, the people high up here in this
country will not care as long as the money's right.
You know, although that goes out the window. You know,
human rights abuses you know all that stuff, it will
not matter.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So I just kind of wish that, you know, my.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Favorite sport wasn't part of this whole concerning, you know,
issue that we get off that we've got going on.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
This all started with HBO, when HB got out of
the box, and that was the first sign that there's trouble.
Not saying it was into the world, but I was
the first sign. And then the PBC thing on Fox
and CBS. Once that ended, once the esp and stuff ended,
it's been a slow crawl like, hey man, what's going
on because there's no there was no solution, there was
(10:05):
no set like, hey, we're gonna go to Amazon now
and everything's Amazon. No, not really, So this has been
going on for quite a while now. We Showtime got
out the business, HBO, ESPN, PBC, everyone's from much got
out the business, sept dis owned, and that's really about it.
(10:27):
So there was a need for somebody to come in
with money that can put money toward the sport. So
I don't necessarily fault this audience. I'm just trying to
figure out what the hell is the overall goal of
this thing? Is this a short term play. Is this
how it's gonna be from here on out? Because American
businesses and outlets are not invested money in it, They're
just neither tell you that we don't believe to put
(10:50):
money into this product.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Well, and you said you said it best that as
long as the fights are good, nobody's gonna care.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But here's the what if they continue not being good?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Like everybody everybody was disappointed by Secret to My Weekend
on you know, the Canela fight, the Times Square thing.
You know what's gonna happen if that can that trend
continues and everyone just says, man, we're not gonna watch
these fights. We're not gonna pay for this pay per view,
and the Saudi's aren't making their return on their investment.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
If we get the matchups that we want, I think
will be okay. I think a big part of Single
to My A Weekend was the matchups really weren't that
great outside of like ro League and uh like, it
really wasn't that great matchup wise, right, Like we knew
why Canola was fighting, we knew the reason why. It
wasn't like, oh that's a primetime fight. Naw, it's just
tuned up fight for September. You know, but if you
(11:42):
have like a hyped up Mega weekend, let's say there's
Canela Crawford, and let's say you gotta hypathetically a secure
Boots or something like that or something of that kind
of nature, and it don't go according to plan, then yeah,
that ain't gonna fly. Man, That ain't gonna That ain't
gonna work. You know, you need the premium nights. You
need to have good, good fights with good results and
(12:04):
good action. So that's what I'm kind of curious on
how that works. But I think as long as we
get the matchups we want, we'll live with the results
because we want the matchup. We went so long without
getting matches you wanted to see for whatever reason there was.
I think we're preconditioned to automatically think doom and gloom
when it comes to that. But I honestly think if
(12:26):
we get the right matchups, we're not gonna worry bout
anything else.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
That's fair And you know, let's be real, neither of us,
you know, we can't tell the future. We know what's
going on, but anything could happen, you know, with the
rest of this year, with the who know, Canelo Crawford
as excited as I have been. We've been talking about
Canelo Crawford since the pilot episode of this show.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's been sort of a through line the entire way.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
So, but what if that fights really really sucks and
it's boring as shit.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It could happen, you never know.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I don't believe so, I don't think Bud is a
boring fighter.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But you never know what could happen, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So it's Canelo's he says that, you know, he's he
fought injured against people, and that's why his performance wasn't
very good. You know, let's say let's just say, let's
let's take him as a word to believe that, what
if Budd is a little messed up and you know,
whether he rolls his eeg a little bit, whatever it is,
He's he's not going to back out of the fight
because there's a huge bag at the end of it.
But what of his performance is disappointing and everyone just
(13:25):
you know, this fight that we've been talking to you
and I have been talking about for a year now,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It's it's a fight though.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The only thing I would say about this one is
a legacy fight to where both guys win a loser draw.
This is a fight that's gonna come up when we
discussed them, especially Bud Right, but has not fought anyone
close to Canelo, like, not even close, Like we can't
the Earl Spence he fought a couple of years ago
is not even close to in the neighborhood of what
Canelo is even now, even Canelo passes Prime or whatever
(13:55):
it might be, not not even close. So this is
a fight that whoever wins or whoever loves Orf, we
have multiple of them, they will mention this opponent first
when it comes to breaking down what happened. That's how
good of a matchup I think it can be. Now,
of course, it could be a dull fight because Crawford's
(14:15):
definitely a CounterPunch guy. He loves around a lot. He
uses his athletic ability to speed and at times he's
the aggressor. Older Canelo is more of a wait and
seek type of guy. He's not as aggressive as he
once was as a younger guy as well, So there's
there's a part of this fight that could be more
of I think it will have his parts where it's
(14:36):
very intriguing for the true boxing fans, I think it's
gonna be dope. I think for the general public that
watches boxing every blue moon, they may be a bit disappointed.
But for us purest I think it's gonna be a
hell of chess match for twelve men rounds. I don't
think anyone's gonna get dropped, but I think it's gonna
be held a chess match, going back and forth and
adjustments and saying who can do what. And I think
we'll have a good fight with moments. I think it
(14:58):
will have good moments in the fight. I don't think
we have one through twelve consistent hell raising rounds. I
don't see that part. No, that these guys are too
old for that. Sure.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, and you know, I recently went back to rewatch
the highlights of Canelo versus Billy Joe Sunders.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
That was in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
One, and it's wild how different Canelo moved back then
compared to now, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Not, even with the I thought that the Berlanga fight
was really exciting, you know not.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Berlang is not a great fighter, and Canelo is definitely better,
but Cano Berlango was big and beefy, and that made
a difference and there were a lot of punches thrown,
and I was I found it a very exciting match.
But just compared to good Canelo now to twenty twenty
one against Sonders, Holy shit, you watch those highlights and
that man was was still a smooth, slick, fast neck moving.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You know, left and right. This time he's just he's
just stiff.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
So but again that's a good that's a good advantage,
you know, being stiff, sturdy, being able to take a
punch and draining your opponent.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
That's fantastic strategy. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Speaking of the details of that fight, there's I read
in an article that supposedly there's no rehydration clause. There's
not gonna be a rehidation clause for for Canelo versus
mud Crawford.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Are you familiar with a rehidition clause and what that means?
Can you teach me them? We've seen them in more
fights over the last I would say five to ten
years than ever before. Usually I don't remember hearing about
them before then, I know it's been a thing lately.
I remember when Floyd Canelo, I believe there was a
high reader hydration clause in that in that fight. Recently,
(16:38):
there's been multiple vot if we win. Tank fought Ryan Arcia,
there was a reiter So there's been it's somewhat common.
Most of the time it's saying, hey, once the way
it happens, you can't come in over this amount, that's
normally what it is. So whether it's five pounds, three pounds,
(16:58):
ten pounds, whatever, now there's clause and you can come
in at the weight and then if you come in
twenty five pounds ever the next day, that's what it is.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Well, then there's if there's no rehidition clause. We know
the Canelo cuts weight. He he says, you know, he's
I think he said he walks around to like one
eighty five or something like that, just normally cuts it
to make to make the weight class he wants to
fight in. But if there's no clause and he can
then you know, go back up, then that's an even
bigger guy.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That Bud has to fight. And I mean, what's that.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It look like, yes, you're bigger, you're slower, but the
weight bullying is a thing, you know, it doesn't matter
how good you are. Some dude is just bigger and
be fier. You know, do you think that that's gonna
be make it even harder for for Bud who's already
going up two weight classes and what is he fighting
a guy that could fit in three weight classes up?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
You know what I mean after the.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Fact, Yeah, I mean it's gonna be fascinating to see, right,
because if Crawford uses it to his advantage, then okay,
you can meet a faster or more busy fighters out
the fight. If he's scored more points throughout the fight,
it worked towards the advantage because their one disadvantage of
not not having clause is yeah, you are okay, that's cool.
(18:14):
But with that being said, if you're slower, if that
wears you down. The other thing that no one ever
talks about as well. So it's very fascinating how these
things could work. But at the end of the day,
these boxes know their bodies, they know what's gonna be
work that works best for them, So I'm gonna trust
what they do in this regard.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well, sure, agreed, yes, but speaking specifically about Canelo, you
know he knows that what weight he's best at. But again,
he's already the bigger guy. The question is what the
hell is Bud gonna do because he's already putting on
weight and we've talked before about is that gonna make
him slower? Is he gonna be as fast on his
feet as he would before? Uh, you know, he's a
(18:55):
very strong guy. People don't never underestimate butts power, never
undrestimate Bud period. But it's still it's just kind of
like I will have a discussion about weight classes here
in a second. But if but already has to move
up and up and up, and Canelo just has to
do what he naturally does, I don't see how.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I don't see advantage.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
But in any way in these in these things again,
if sure, Canela could be slower, but he's already done it.
He already knows his speed and his you know, punching power,
et cetera, at that different at that weight range, you know,
whatever it is, what's seventy six point eight, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So what advantage what chance does Bud have here?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
The advantage is he has He's he knows who kind
of fight he wants to fight. So if he comes
in at the way he wants to, he's able to
move around and do X you plan. He has Now,
with that being said, find any guys twenty pounds are
heavier more than you. It's a tough challenge. However, if
you have the right game plan and if you trust
your abilities, I don't think I don't think it's necessarily
(19:59):
a bad thing because they're assume that Canal is gonna
come in at one eighty five one ninety and try
to use his weight in his bolt as an advantage.
So any good corner, any good camp would prepare their
fighter by hey, this is what he's gonna try to do.
We're gonna counter this and do this. We're gonna try
to be more active. We're gonna try to do this,
this and that. And also, Canelo at thirty five is
(20:19):
a different fighter. He'll be thirty five at the time
of this fight. Canela at thirty five was a different
fighter than he was four or five years ago, just
a different overall fighter. Normally, fighters as they get older,
they're not as active, and when that's the case and
you're fighting an a lead opponent, not being as active
can be a detriment to your plan that night.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Absolutely, do you know, you know a range of like
how how much a fighter loses or how much weight
a fighter cuts before a match, Like, could a guy
cut you know, there have been guys that cut fifteen
twenty I really hope. I really wish we would ask
treating Ochoa when he was here, Uh, like how much
weight somebody can actually cut before they just to know,
pass out, die, you have a stroke, whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So it everyone's different, right, So some boxers walk around
at their weight that they need to. Some guys are
right around, So if you're one forty seven, you walk
around between one fifty seven and you just you're just
always in that range. So when it's fight time, you
do what you do. There are some guys that walk
around at one sixty five and they got to cut
down twenty pounds in training camp. You know, it just
(21:24):
depends on the boxer. Everyone's different for the most part. Though,
if I had to guess from what I've heard and
everything like that, I would say about twenty pounds, between
fifteen and twenty pounds on average, which is not bad
when it's not that difficult. When you're doing what they
do in training camp, you're eating differently, you're training two
a days, you're you know, you're well conditioned, all that stuff,
(21:46):
so it's not that difficult to drop that because you're
constantly moving, you're constantly doing cardio, so that's pretty easy. Overall,
three month timespan, that's not bad at all. But when
you get like the Adrian types that you gotta cut
like forty pounds six weeks, that ain't. Man, ain't gonna work. Man,
That ain't that?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Ain't that sounds horrible?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Well, you know, I read this just It was like
a comment in another article, so don't take this as gospel.
But it did say that christianbek junior, British fighter, had
a rehidition clause that said that he couldn't hydrate after
making weight, he couldn't add on more than five pounds,
you know, and rehidiation, and supposedly his father, Christy Ebank
Senior said, uh, you know, that's that's terrible. You know,
(22:31):
the limiting his ability to hydrate properly could affect his
health and blah blah blah, which to me, I'm sorry, man,
that's not you chose to fight it that weight. But
boxing is a dangerous port. We already said you're putting
your life on the line. I want fighters to be
as safe as possible. But if you're having if your
health is going to be affected by cutting that much weight.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Don't do that shit. I'm sorry. Just fight it on
a higher weight. Find it where you are normally.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Lady pins, right, So if you're taking fire last minute,
it is what it is. You got to reach to
whatever it is. However, if you have any bargaining chips,
if you have any way to get your point across
and have a say in the matter, do what's best
for you. So if a five pound limit's not good,
you need to speak up during the contract, not during
(23:18):
the fight, like that's not gonna work. True. I don't
have any sympathy for that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Good. So that's a question that we can ask in
a professional fighters.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
But I want to see your take is in general,
why would a fighter cut so much weight to hit
a different weight class? I mean there's like I don't remember,
like a dozen more weight classes, like you can slot
into so many places. Why why why are fighters cutting
twenty pounds anyway in the first place?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
You know?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Do you mean?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I mean that's up to the fire in their camp, right,
Because the end of the day, as an athlete, your best,
your your only job is to stay in shape. That's
your main job. I should say is to stay in shape.
You shouldn't be so far gone to where it's going
to take a lot of work to get back to weight.
That should never happen. You should know your body, you
should know what your training camps usually like, and you
(24:04):
should be able to project and forecast what's going to
actually take place. And again, everybody's body is differently late.
So like, for instance, if I was in a boxer's camp,
I would have a nutritionus. I would see, we would
take your blood, we would see what foods work for you,
what foods don't, and what foods don't work for you.
We would mess with we would leave alone because we
(24:25):
want to make sure you're in the best possible situation.
So when it's fight time, it's not oh, we got
to lose fifteen pounds in two weeks or else nah,
because you and I you have a drain fighter. You've
seen face offs on Friday afternoon when one guy looks very,
very drained to the point where it looks like he
took everything out of him and they try to give
(24:47):
him to the where you need to get to. It's
not good, man, It's just you're putting your body through
a lot and it's very difficult to succeed that way.
But to be honest with you, a lot of people
just are not responsible there now responsible and they're mature.
And we've seen it happen a lot time. We've seen
guys miss wait and just take the fine. And I'm
not a big fan of that at all.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Well, and I appreciate that response, but I think I
might be splitting hairs. But we're talking about different I'm
talking about a different thing because we're talking about being
in shape and then cutting weight after that. So for example,
so I was I turned into a real fat piece
of shit in twenty twenty during the RONA like and
then I got into I got into boxing, training, sparring,
this and that, and in a year, just from working
(25:30):
out in eating healthy, I lost forty pounds. Like I
was in good shape. Let's not worry about you know
where I'm at now, this is under your business.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
This is your business.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Nobody you know, And I don't.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Have to answer that.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I'm not answering questions about my lawyer at president. But
I lost forty thousand a year just working out, in
eating healthy, not starving myself, you know, just not even
like and honestly, I didn't. I didn't stop drinking, I
didn't stop eating fried food. I just you know, head
cheet days. I definitely drank way less than than I
did before, and honestly, let's do now. So all of
(26:01):
that just the healthy lifestyle. You know, boot forty pounds.
But let's say I wanted to fight a guy that
was twenty pounds later. I'm in shape, but then I
go twenty pounds under that already, That's like that feels
just artificial and dangerous to me, because I feel that
if I then lost twenty pounds after being in shape,
I don't know, I'd feel like I would be just lightheaded,
(26:23):
fall apart health. Some days I don't have the time
to eat lunch, and by the end of the day
I'm lightheaded. So I'm just kind of curious as to
why a fighter would then put into that extra effort
to cut so much more when it could potentially be damaging.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I mean, just just fight it the best shape you're in.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I think that would be the thing, right, You wouldn't.
I don't think you would cut weight as a boxer
if you didn't need to. I think you'd only cut
weights if you have to because every boxer knows they're
desired weight and desired you know, conditioning. So if it
gets to the point where it becomes unhealthy, then they
might have qualified off because it wouldn't make sense. So
(27:01):
I think, whatever the fuck, So let's say it's up
one forty seven is hypothetically speaking, I think they would
if they would get to one forty five, they'd probably
stop doing what they're doing and just keep on whatever
path they need to get to. They're not gonna go
any further down to one forty don't like that. But
if they're at one sixty five and they got to
(27:21):
lose twenty pounds or eighteen pounds to get to a
certain point, I think that's a bit different. But cutting
weight is normally for guys that really need to. So
I'll put it this way. When you go through training camp,
you're going to lose a certain amount of weight just
by being a training camp by itself, just by being
active the amount of you gotta be active, you're gonna
(27:44):
cut weight automatically. So it really depends on body type,
It depends on the time and the boxer because everybody's
metallism is different. Obvious, the younger guys burn stuff off
real fast, so everyone's different. However, you don't want to
get in a situation where you got to cut forty
five pounds in two much. That's just not that's dangerous.
(28:04):
That's something where you've got to be very careful. Now,
cutting weight, if you're at one sixty and you can
give you at one forty seven, cutting thirteen pounds is
not that difficult, Like that's not it ain't.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Okay, Well it's difficult for me just being a fat
guy on the couch.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
But yeah, yeah, with the nutrition is traders, et cetera. No,
I get that. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Part of me feels like there should be a rehydration
clause in every fight, like if you're gonna decide to
if you're gonna cut weight and go all the way
down to fight this guy, stay in that weight class.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You know, it's my personal opinion.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You know, I don't know what justification could be made
to say, now, let's just let everybody just be whatever
weight they want. After the facts, All I'm saying is
that you made the choice you want to go to
that weight class, stick to that. You know, the five
to ten pounds limit that's fine, you know, But just
to completely say you can put on as much weight
as you and just just eat a shit ton of
(29:01):
Popeyes right before the fight and then put on twenty
five pounds, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I don't think that's I just don't think that's fair,
is what I'll say.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's not fair. But also here's the thing too, Like,
if you put it on that much before you fight
is very risky because that may not give the best performance.
You may be sluggish in the rain twelve hours later.
I think everyone's different. Now, if you're gonna slam a
bunch of water and a bunch of fluid, that's different.
(29:33):
But if you're gonna carpload and get your proteins in
all that, that might backfire. At least the liquid will
go come out of you eventually. If you eat a
bunch of food, that might not come out within a
day or so. So it's very fascinating. I said, we
would definitely need a boxer for that. Get more in
detail about that, because again, every boxer is different. Now,
for the most part, I would say eighty percent of
(29:57):
boxers are able to cut weight relatively easy and be
in be in the particular weight that they need to
be in come fight time. I would say that, now,
there are some that just have some difficulties for whatever
might be. Uh sometimes the situation where they might be.
I mean, there's some guys that need to make weight, Zoe.
(30:20):
And sometimes you're going up a weight clouds, so you
may have to make weight. So that's a whole different category.
So it's just I think it really depends. Is definitely
a fascinating thing. But with the rehid race to cause
I'm not a huge fan of them in general, but
I do understand them. I get it. But at the
end of the day, the best fight usually wins with
(30:41):
all the stuff that's out there, if the fighter is
prepared and the fighters out good, the best fire usually wins.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Well, yeah, and if you do cut too much or
then you gain too much, and then you you know,
you either lose a fighter you just barely eke out
a win, or they're probably not gonna do that again,
you know, say, well, let's stick to the weight over under.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
That you know that led me to this l or
to this disappointed performance. So I get that.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Yeah, I know, I'd love to talk more to to
professional boxers without and we'll make sure to get some
on the show and toss those questions at them. For
me personally, you know, everybody says, oh, muscle weighs.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
More than that.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know, if you work out and you get jacked,
of course you're gonna gain weight. But again, if you
when you go from a big fat piece of shit
like I was, to be really active, it was like
just drastic weight loss first, and then even with lifting too.
It's it's like it was so unbalanced that I never
actually really knew. I never never knew what it's like
(31:39):
to put on like, I don't know, three to five
pounds of muscle. I just losses just in a way,
then built some muscle up, but it never went the
other way. You know, nobody puts on ten pounds of
muscle accidentally, just you know, liftingly in the gym.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So but very interesting. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
We'll see what what this means for for Canelo Crawford.
And even though I was talking a little bit of
shit earlier about you know, Saudi money and the way
that they they're doing things right now, I still cannot
wait for this fight. It is still so it feels
like forever from now till September.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
To be honest with you, I just I'm dying to
see what.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It looks like.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, let's move on to our next segment or recurring
segment called Pop Pugilism. Every episode we discuss a movie,
TV show, or documentary about boxing, and today we're going
to be discussing a documentary called When We Were Kings
from nineteen ninety six directed by Leon Gast and this
(32:41):
film is the story of the Rumble in the Jungle,
the historic fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman in
nineteen seventy four and the country then known as Saire.
This movie was two decades in the making, and we've
seen this fight twice before Jamison, you know, in the
Ali movie and then the big George Forman movie. So
(33:01):
it was a very very important fight for both of
these guys in bostht of their lives, and we got
to see it, you know, fictionalized in both movies, and
we got to see a documentary about it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So just want to get your thoughts first, what did
you think about this.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Movie and what did you think about what it was
trying to do in terms of showing you some background
on this fight.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, so, first of all, it was a great film.
The documentary, like just in general, it's been around for
a while. It's one of the well done right. It
was a well crafted documentary, kind of gives you a
breakdown of before the fight. It's in Africa, which is
ironic because the year before we had thro lit Manila,
(33:43):
which is another hot human place in the Philippines. So
it was interesting. Back in those days we had fights
in other places like that, major fights in other places,
and now everything is domestically here for most part. But
it was just fascinating over the background of it. Obviously
the two fires when they were in their careers at
that time. Obviously the whole continent was mine Ali, so
(34:05):
that was fascinating as well. But George, I mean George
was in control of that fight most of the fight.
It just kind of punched himself out and I think
the amidity of the weather as well and just the
overall situation kind of overwhelmed them. But nine times out
of ten, Big George would have won that fight. Like
you know, we have a totally different conversation. But no,
(34:25):
it's uh, it was very fascinating, you know, and also
the Africa, it's it gets forgotten about we have the bad,
negative stereotypes about Africa. We never talked about the good
things about Africa, which is unfortunate. But it was good
to see them get their proper due in a sports
film without it being like, oh, we're talking about athletes
(34:46):
that are you know, this is that, or we're talking
about something else. They were actually able to provide a
premium event and pats fifty years ago. That's yeah, that's
pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, No, I definitely appre shed.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
You know how fights were in different parts of the globe,
you know, now you said they're domestically or they're in
riodd or they're in London. You know, there's British fighters.
Happened to me is that all the fights I see
are in US.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Rion or London.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And the thing I love about boxing is that one
of the many things I love about it is that
it's such a global sport. You know, every country in
the world has a boxer. It's it's poor poor people.
Poor countries can have boxers because you just got to
learn to throw hands. You don't need to buy like,
you know, hockey equipment and pads, you know, and a stick.
They're like, you know, all that stuff, you know, helmets
and any of that shit.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Sure you need gloves and wraps, but the first thing
you learn is technique.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
So I'm just kind of disappointed now that this movie
really put into perspective just how less global boxing seems today.
You know, we still have fighters coming all over the
world to fight here in the US fighting Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
But what about these.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Other countries that you know have their all These places
have football stadiums, soccer stadiums, football soccer stadiums.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
You know, why can't we.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Go back to making amazing matchups in places that are
in US aria.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you. So,
every city has a tourism board. So whenever you bring
an event to a tourism place of tourism, you get
a you get a check, you get some funds. Two
Because you're bringing people in, people are flying in, people
are spending money, they're anny hotels, the or any cars. Uh,
(36:29):
they're eating, they're buying stuff, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So the department of tourism or the tourism board gives
the promoters a lot of money to host these events.
So it's the reason why the fights are in certain places.
It's not accident that the fights happened in Vegas, New York, La, Texas, wherever.
You You know, the Mega fights only happened in New
(36:50):
York Vegas, and you could throw in La in there.
But for the most part, it's Vegas or New York.
It's for the most part, especially out here, the of
tourism gives whoever's thrown to the event a lot of
money and perks to do so. So whenever a fight
winds up in a weird place, that means that city, state,
(37:10):
or tourism board has given them promoters something that they
normally wouldn't have done, or they've outbidden other places. That's
normally how it goes. Way back, when there's a fight
between Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander at the Silver Dome
in Detroit, and at the time, I was wondering, why
the hell is at the Silver Dome, which has been
making for years. It made no sense. Neither guys from Detroit. No,
(37:34):
it didn't make any sense at all. But I'm thinking
these are the kind of fights that somebody in the
state of Michigan gave an extra bag to somebody is
to put the event on, and those are things that
take place. So the reason why we don't give fights
in other countries like that anymore is because they're not
spending out. They're not outspending the people here and also
(37:55):
the other perks as off involved in the back end
that we will never know about.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
That's fair, and part of me thinks that, like, if
you build it, they will come, and also it'll get
more attention, you know that Just goddamn, it's been you know,
exact fifty years. We still remember the title thriller in Manila.
We still remember Rumble in the Jungle. I think if
we went back to it and gave some other places
a chance to set this up, you know, with a
(38:22):
well promoted event, flashy name, you know, bike, a big deal,
people will show up, not just like fans in the
venue there, but like people will watch. I think it's
I think it's a mistake to just be so centralized.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Even in US cities.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
You know, people have state of use that people have
football stadiums in different cities. Why not put a damn
you know, important boxing match in Wisconsin or wherever the
hell because people.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Will show up.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
You gotta have people to go. And you remember, most
of the places we have fights at it's easy to
get to. So you can't put a fight at Wisconsin
because it's not easy to get to Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
That's fair, that's our fine. Okay, you know there should
be there should be a major fight time in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
You know, I'm just yeah, I'm just saying someplace that's
not the typical till place you had mentioned earlier than
you know, there's a lot of places to put canal
overis with sorry Canelo Crawford with football stadiums and you said,
you know, oh, Dallas, maybe Arizona.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
We're not getting it in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
But yeah, no, no, that was my mess up and
much I'll here's the thing, people, they would sell out
the Cardinal Stadium. That wouldn't be an get the full
seventy thousand or whatever. Old so, but it's just not
the kind of draw and you're looking at probably La
or Texas if it doesn't happen here. But I think
(39:39):
they'll figure out a way to happen in Vegas. It's
just too much money involved, too many people that want
to come here. And yeah, it's I think it gets done. Sure.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Well back to the back to the movie. You know, uh,
it's not actually a lot of boxing in it. So
if you're somebody that's like not a sports fan, not
a boxing fan, most of it it's probably what spends
I don't know, ten minutes on the actual.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Fight, yeah, if that, if that.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, everything else is you know, the setup getting there
and the really interesting things I took about it took
out of it was Ali being shown as a as
a politically minded person.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know, we we remember the catchphrases.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
You know, felt like a butterfly, sting like a be
you know, we remember the rhymes, the poems.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Of course he's very clever, but it was very fast
and very funny and charming.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
But you know, let's not forget that man defighted the
US government because he did not want to fight in
Vietnam because he said the viet Cong never did anything
to me, they never called me.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
The N word, I will not fight them. And that
was a huge deal.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
And the movie made a good point, made a point
to say he was hated in the US, but people
in Africa loved.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Him for it, right, right, And that's the thing, especially
back then with everything going on. Yeah, they was gonna
have his back, especially with the religion stuff and the
political stuff. He was always don't have. He was gonna
be the household favorite there. However, the one thing I
wish they would have went deeper into is I wish
it would have been more evenly with the coverage, because
(41:10):
George was a big deal himself, and it felt like,
even though they did a really good job, they could
have gave George more spotlight. It felt like we focus
on George the fighter, not George the person, and I
think they focus on Ali the person and the fighter
on the other side. Just that's just me personally.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
No, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
They definitely made George for like he was an afters.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, yeah, this was the last show. And also this
guy's here, I guess whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, and that guy should have won the fight. I mean,
go back and watch it. Look at it. I mean
he was in control, he was he just gassed out.
But yeah, like that guy was damn good in his
own right. So this is kind of weird how that
pro program went, but that's how it goes. We get
out it is product, I understand.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And also very interesting is that there were some of
the talking heads in the movie said, everybody thought, you know,
on like the press and the American press thought Ali
was gonna lose, like Africa. The people in Africa were
on inside one hundred percent, but like people around Ali,
they're like, oh man, this guy's going down. So that
was very interesting to see because of course Ali is
(42:24):
very confident, you know, he's talking to shit. And then
one of the I forget, which I might have been
Norman Mayler, who said, like, honestly, we thought he was worried.
We thought Ali was actually scared beneath the bluster and everything.
So I was really I really appreciated that. It really
gave a different perspective. Another thing I really liked. Spike
Lee actually said at the time there was a division
(42:46):
between you know, black people in America and Africans, where
if you called a black guy African, there there would.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Be a fight. You know.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
That was surprising to me, and it reminded me of
the difference with Mexican culture, Mexican American culture. Oscar Deloya
was made fun of by a lot of people, including
my own mother, for being not Mexican enough. You know,
he didn't speak Spanish, you know, he played golf, He
was kind of a like. I guess the term that
I would use to to sanitize what my mother says
(43:14):
he was a pansy. He wasn't a real Mexican. You
know that there's a difference of like you. It would
be he would be better thought of if he was
more Mexican than not. You know what I'm saying it right,
which is which is fascinating. So and you know, I
love I love my mother to death, and she's definitely
come a long way and over the years and being
(43:34):
more more woke. But man, she she will talk bad
shit about Oscar Deloya to this day. It weighs in
ways and I'm like, Mom, you can't say this twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
You can't say that shit. It's Spanish or English, right
right right?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I love you?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
But yeah, So Jameson, if people who don't care about
bossing and don't care about sports, I think they can
get something out of this way. What do you think
people will get out of So how would you convince
somebody to watch this movie if they say, I don't
give a shit about boxing at all.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So I think it's better off of you didn't know
about boxing, because it's done well, we're boxing fans, so
we want more action or whatever. But that was a
regular movie watcher or a documentary watcher covering the event.
Th way they did was very good. There's a lot
of things they covered very well. So from the average person,
it's probably best off if you didn't know about boxing.
(44:25):
That's how well it was done.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Oh, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
And I don't know if you know this, but the
director actually went to Zaire to make a documentary about
the music festival that was happening alongside the fight. The
president of Mabutu then made so proceeds from the music festival,
we're supposed to find the documentary, but Macha said, you
know what, this this music fest is now free. So
(44:50):
the director was kind of like, oh shit, what am
I going to do here? You know, I can't make
a movie without funding. Then when George Foreman got injured
and the fight got delayed and people stuck aroun out
It's air, then it kind of switched the the focus
of the film to the boxers and the set up
to the fight. But there's still a lot of really
cool footage of musical performances in the movie Pepper throughout
(45:13):
because there they so it's very dynamic, so there's not
that much you know, talking heads.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
There's a there's a few interviewees.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
There's a lot of footage of you know, Ali preparing
for the fight. There's training footage. There's a lot of
music in it. Kind of reminded me of Sinners actually,
because they took musical breaks here and there, just simly
enough shout out to Sinners.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Amazing movie. Go see that if you haven't already.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
But yeah, and there's just a little bit of everything,
and it's like a dynamic and it's it's a strong
recommend Oh and I can't neglect that near the end,
probably less than ten minutes left to go, there was
a montage with footage and pictures. And this is how
I know I'm washed because it was said to a banger.
(45:56):
Nineties R and B song by Brian mcnight and Diana
came banger, and it made me nostalgic for that like
specific style of nineties R and B. Uh, to the
point that I went back and put on that, uh,
that big Brian McKnight's song today that you don't where
he's like, what you let a.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Dream come true?
Speaker 4 (46:16):
You remember that from when we were kids, put that
on today, I was like, fuck, that was, Like I said,
I became nostalgic because now I've watched as Hell. So
definitely shout out to the movie for ending on a
on a banger song. Uh so here, you know, we
rate movies out of four gloves. It's always kind of
(46:36):
difficult for me to rate documentaries.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
But this one, this one, this one is.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Very stylish, you know it. It is specifically made to
be cinematic. So yeah, you know, what are your thoughts?
Out of four gloves, what would you give this movie?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's a three point five. It does the job very
well for showcase from the event, Like it puts the
event and it gets you prepare for the event. It
gives you a great breakdown of the event if you're
a person that had no knowledge of boxing, no knowledge
of the gentlemen that we're fighting. It did a very
good job of showcasing the actual event. So I think
it did its job. I just felt that they can
(47:11):
have more boxing in it. Whether it talked about the
previous fights that guys had with other opponents, bestally Joe Fraser,
who was a common opponent above for theirs. You know,
those are things I could have get a little bit
more lead on, but in general, for the event itself,
it held a job.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the same. I'm a
little higher on it. I would go three point seven
to five.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
I just you know, we talked so much about boxing,
and I love and I love talking about the fights
and this and that the history that this was so
much skewed in the other direction that it was refreshing
and it.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Was really nice to see. You know, there's a reason
we still, you know, remember Muhammad.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Ali finally today, and you know it's not only because
of his personality and just the way he was quick
on his feet, both in the ring and also mentally,
but also you know, like I said, I really like
the political aspect they brought in.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
You can't deny that that part of him and why
he was so so beloved because of that as well.
So I really appreciated it.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
I think that it's definitely worth a watch, and if
you were into physical media as I am. This is
available on Blu ray and DVD from the Criterion collection
Spine number nine ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
I wrote that down, so check it out.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
It's very short. I think it's like the ninety minutes
or something like that, or maybe a little lessan ninety minutes. Yeah,
so worth your time, your in and out, You're going
to learn something. At the very least, you're going to
learn something about Africa that you know maybe not a
lot of people, not only people know a lot about that,
(48:43):
but that continent. So I took an African politics class
in college. That was very interesting, but that was a
long time ago and that shit is long gone that
I drank all that knowledge away. So it was really
nice to just to learn something. So check it out,
y'all recommend Let's get here, Let's get out here Jamison.
Where can people find you on social media and on
(49:06):
Twitter at view Jamison.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
I'm on there for all the fights. Always good to
interact with people's going to watch the fights, all that
good stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Hell yeah, you can follow me at the Classy Alcoholic
on Instagram and Blue Sky. A quick shout out to
my buddies who hosts a Star Wars podcast called Han
Took Shots First. They were kind enough to invite me
on to discuss the second and final season of the
show and or It's an excellent show.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
I had a lot of fun discussing it and joking
around with my guys Derek and Jack.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
So check out Han Took Shots First on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you follow
our show on Twitter at mixed co Podcast. Subscribe to
us on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Amazon Music.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Please leave us a five star review.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
It only takes a minute and it helps us helps
us out way more than you can possibly know. And
we have a show email address. If you have any
questions for the mailbag fun stories about watching boxing and
Mixed Company. If you have hate mail, any quesquestions about
you know, the boxing, training, boxing business, send it all
to letters at mixedco podcast dot com. That's letters at
mixedco podcast dot com. And don't forget we drop new
(50:12):
episodes every other Thursday. So please join us again June
fifth for more news and more spicy takes from the
boxing world.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Thank you so much for listening. We have been the
Mixed Company Podcast salut
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