TMCP Ep 19: Wilder Returns, Jake Paul's Ranking and More

Jamieson and Classy are back for another fantastic boxing conversation for you to enjoy. The two of them discussed Wilder's return to the ring as well as the official location of Canelo vs Crawford following the official announcement last week. They also went back and forth regarding the recent news about Jake Paul being ranked #14 Cruiserweight by the WBA and a few other topics before this week's Pop Pugilism topic: Tyson, the 2008 documentary on his life and in his words.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
In this corner, standing it six foot five weight class
unknown hailing from Sin City, Las Vegas, Jamison Welch and
in this corner standing it five foot nine, Wayne Towns
with six wins.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Three losses, two arrests, four late.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Payments on student loans, and two total painkruptcies.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
HiT's the classy. I'll go high. Thank you. Welcome back
to another episode of the Mixed Company Podcast. Of course,
on one half of the show Mixed Company Podcast and
is always I'm enjoyed by the classy alcoholic classy. What's
going on? Man?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh, Jamison, I'm feeling good. I mean, I can't say
I'm enjoying the summer heat, but I'm trying to beat
it by going out drinking all night and sleeping all
day with the AC cracked. And it's kind of working,
kind of working.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
That doesn't make No, you can't drink more in the heat.
I don't work.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
That's what I wait a night tell you know, it's
like cool cool.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah. You you in the Midwestern and back heats, your
nights ain't d the nights.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's true. I have in Arizona. So is that what
I've been feeling like garbage for the last like two
months or is it just like But here's the thing.
Not only do I drink all night, I had a
lot of late night tacos, So I don't know, maybe
that kind of balances out man eat for you. Yeah, well,
I think I'm gonna have to talk to I don't know,

(01:31):
a nutritionist or somebody to a mobile IV place to
maybe get myself back on track, because clearly I am
living my life wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
But that's okay, because one thing I am doing right
is with here. I'm here with you today recording episode
nine of our show, and uh, I have been making
it out to the news stand picking up the Boxing Gazette,
America's finest source in boxing news. So let's check out
the headlines. What have we got here? The front page
was Jake Paul of course, but I'm more just in
What's in the back by the crossword puzzle by the

(02:02):
escort ads. Deontay Wilder came back this weekend on against
Tyrrell Herndon. The fight was streamed on BLK Prime, which
I assume has pronounced black Prime, a streaming service that
I only remember spending a lot of money back in
twenty twenty two to host Budd Crawford versus David a
venison of an Ason. Apologies if I got that wrong, jameson,

(02:26):
how do you feel about Deontay's return?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
So here's the thing I don't like. I don't why
when the boxer retires and not retired and plays that game,
I'm not a fan of that. However, it feels like
he's back because of the money. It feels like he's
back because there's there's earning opportunity in the next six
to twelve months. So that's where I kind of feel
indifferent at right, Like are you back because you want

(02:52):
to fight? Or are you back because you want to
make money? Because his flaws have always been his laws? Right?
You know, out of the box, or we know what
watchers can can I do? We know their strens of
weaknesses are. We've known his strengths and weaknesses and the
fact that he's never really approved upon them kind of
tells him tell us the full story about him. So
we know at this age of the game, you don't

(03:13):
necessarily get better or learn new things. You kind of
are who you are. So it looks like he's in
it for a cash grap and I get it, you know,
he started. He was a late kind of a late rumer. Uh.
You know, he made a lot of money at the
same time. If someone's giving you ten plus million a
year to fight or ten plus million for a fight
to fight Joshua in six months, then you kind of

(03:33):
have to do it. So I get it. I'm not
a fan of it, but I understand. I understand why
he's still fighting well and correct me if I'm wrong.
But I don't remember him officially saying he was retiring.
He kind of just disappeared after the Fury fight, but
he didn't make an announcement.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
He just kind of it.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
It felt like we got some i'm done, I'm good
kind of comments, but nothing ever officially. It was always like,
oh I'm good, or I've had enough or I done enough.
But it'll never an officially goodbye. But with all that
being said, in terms of a serious fighter, he's retired.
You know, we don't hang him. He can't be taking seriously.
He cannot.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
That's fair. I mean. Now, I've always liked Deonte, never
the most technically skilled fighter, definitely a tough guy. You know,
to his credit, he's got forty nine fights. Nothing this
needs at you know, I think the more. The thing
I'm most interested in is this Black Prime streaming service.
Do you know much about it? If you heard about it,
or do you remember anything apart from the Crawford Fighter.

(04:33):
It's existence it. I try to look Yeah, I try
to look it up, and it says you know, it's
it's got boxing on it. That's a big draw. It
does say multi multicultural entertainment. I'm assuming it's like a
like a modern bet streaming bet wo price to thirty
three nine nine a month. They seem to focus smaller
name fighters. You know, I'm actually kind of interested to

(04:54):
check it out because I just like fights.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
A couple of weeknds ago, I think I was trying
to find the Abdua A Mason fight on one of
my gray market streaming services. Uh, and I ran across
like two women when Hispanic when British going at it
in a boxingate. No idea who they were. The announcers
were speaking in Spanish. I just said and watched while
I waited for ESPN to get to the next event.
So I know, I there's a match on. I don't

(05:19):
have to follow the fighter, I don't have to care about,
you know, their track record career. So hey, maybe if
Black Prime has ab up and coming names, maybe there's
gonna be somebody that you know, we'll hear about in
a year.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
So we are both the same age, we've both been
around for a long time. We've watched boxing all kinds
of different streams, channels, ille o, cable, you name it, right,
If there's a fight that we want to watch, we
gonna find it, like that's the thing. And if they
are putting on fights consistently, we will know, we will
know more about them. That's how it always goes. If
there's a fight, we will find.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
It, sure, Black Prime. I think I forget the number exactly,
but they paid millions of dollars for the Crawford evan
Asen fight, and uh that when if I remember correctly,
it was pretty boring, pretty stuck too far in Butts favored.
It didn't seem like a like much of a challenge, did.
It seemed very competitive, you know. I didn't know much

(06:14):
about the fighters, still don't know, because I apologize, I'm
not like mispronouncing his name on purpose to be a dick.
I believe it's an Essien David Avnescien. But it was
I struggle to say, I shouldn't say Tomato can, but
that's what it felt like to me what I said.
So Crawford was the draw. But I don't know if

(06:35):
if Black Prime is gonna stay in the boxing game.
You know, either they need to have consistent smaller fighters,
smaller name fighters like I said, uh to get him
out into the the spotlight and and new names. But
I don't think, yeah, Deontay Wilder's return, maybe, isn't it
maybe something a little bit uh more more like mid

(06:56):
tier fighter.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
If that just consistent fights, I've yes, whatever you do
something assistant, people know about you. It's like opening up
a restaurant, right if you're selling burgers and you're open
every day, people will know you for selling burgers, Like
that's what you're known as. So it's not anything else.
Especially why the outlets are now, with the way that
the major outlets are kind of gone away from boxing,
there's gonna be a second tier app or a lesser

(07:19):
known app that wants to take charge. Is there for
the taking?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
In my opinion, yeah, absolutely, And we've said her many
times that boxing has to get creative and where it's
airing or where it's streaming going forward, because yeah, they're
you know, losing HBO Top rank and ESPN party. Ways,
we got to figure out what the next options are.
And hey, you know what, I'll give it a shot.
I'll pay the three ninety nine and see what's on there.

(07:44):
Three ninety nine. I'm probably gonna forget that I subscribe
to it, and they're gonna get at least six months
out of me to be to be very honest, right
all right. Next up on the list, Jake Paul, still
trying to make a name for himself as someone boxing
fans should care about. He thought Julio Chavis Junior over
the weekend. You know, I've looked. I've said Chavis Senior

(08:05):
is my favorite fighter and the reason I got into
boxing when I was a wee little baby. But I
think my man needs to tell his son to find
another career. You know, he's on paper, Chavis Junior has
not had a terrible career sixty three fights, fifty four wins,
seven losses, thirty four KOs, but his career has been
marred by failing to make weight, failing drug tests. But however,

(08:28):
to be fair, one time he was finding suspended for
marijuana's which I think is stupid. That's not a performance
enhancing drug for fighting. That doesn't make you, doesn't affect
your ability to box. Let's start there. What's your take
on marijuana being a drug that gets fighters find or suspended?

Speaker 3 (08:47):
So I don't think of the PD. I think if
it's legal in the state the fight's being held in,
I don't think it would be a problem. I think
that is should go by state rule. So if the
state you're in it says, hey, it's good, it's good.
If it's illegal, then it shouldn't be good. Like I
think that's how it should be. It's not a PD.
If anything makes you reflects its slower. If anything, it

(09:10):
can help ease anxiety before a fight. Maybe, But I
don't see the benefit or the gain of somebody testing
positive for weed and patching a fight. I just don't
see it. Now. Other drugs of course, pds, of course,
but we'd no, I don't. I don't necessarily see that. However,
let's be real, most of this country that's an adult
help some kids do. Most smoke weed in some way,

(09:32):
shape or form, or they they obtain cannabis, whether it's
via gummies, whether it's via edibles, whether it's via smoking
and whatever. How do you want to go about it.
I don't think it's a big deal. I think it's
much to do about nothing. However, once you develop a
an image or a reputation, these are things that happen.

(09:54):
You don't get benefit of doubt when things come up.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right. Yeah, and you know, Chevez Junior has had kind
of like a I guess, a shit show of a career.
I guess that is what I would say, you know,
very nice. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think this biggest claim
to fame was losing to Canelo and kind of helping
him take off and you know, become a bigger name. Yeah.
You know, the fight wasn't really from what I read,

(10:18):
because I'll be honest, I didn't watch it. People were
excited about it, the audience were booing. There wasn't a
lot of funchstone, a lot of holding. So today, actually
just before I got in the air, we got news
that Jake Paul was ranked number fourteen cruiserweight by the WBA,
So he's officially wrecked. The everything is alighting to make
people try to take him seriously. A lot of people

(10:41):
already do. Let's be fair, I'm being a hater.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
But yeah, this is not real. This is this is
a movie, this is this is make pretend.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Man.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
He's not fighting real guys. Man Like, if he's a
real boxer, he fights real guys. He's not gonna find
a real guy. So this is all may believe.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Okay, So you are on my side, you know, I'm
trying to be like.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Here's the thing. He does numbers, So you do numbers.
You can do whatever you want because if it makes money,
people will tune in. So I don't take that away
from at all, not one bit. I trust me, I
am I get the business aspect. Well, let's call it
for what it is. This is w w E. This
is not real boxing. This is not Oh you don't

(11:23):
have real fighters in there that have gone through real training,
real regimen, staying in shape, staying clear minded, etcetera, etcetera.
Even as crazy as Ryan Garcia is, he wouldn't dare
fight Ryan. He wouldn't dare even even think about that
unless it's fixed. There's no way, there's no way.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, you know what, I realized what my issues with
Jake Paul are. And if you'll indulge me for a second,
one of my favorite things in the world is when
actors I kind of like, release shitty music. Do you
remember when Jeremy Renner a few years ago was getting
clown for doing the go t. You remember that?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, I don't ever do that again. I won't.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
But here's the thing. He released the whole album. It
was terrible, and I listened to that hundreds of times.
It's one of those like it's so bad, it's good,
trust me, it's it's a problem, it's a sickness. Vin
Diesel released the song. I listened to that on repeat.
He for Sutherland has terrible country music. I don't even
like country music, and his is particularly bad. But I

(12:25):
end up just because it's a dumb, weird thing that
I am into. I say that to say this, I
do not believe anyone became a fan of Jake Paul
as a boxer by watching him fight. I don't. I
even if you say you did. I just like, I
don't think there's a single country music fan in the
world who stumbled across key first album and became a

(12:46):
fan of his without ever having seen you know, twenty
four or The Lost Boys or whatever you want to say.
Paul's a real fighter. Whatever you want to say he's
good for someone who started boxing late. You want to
say he's good for the sport because he brings in
new fans. Whatever, That's not the point. The point is
that David du Company is a legitimate singer with albums
and shows that people attend and have a great time.

(13:07):
But the conversation has to be different from a musician
who grinded, you know, playing acoustic guitar for years at
dive bars and managed to get a big break of
the music scene, told in obscurity because he wasn't on
the xpouse or twenty years. That's what Paul is to me,
and I'm sorry, that's why I respect him less as
a fighter. He never had to fight at two PM
on a major card to get himself headlined.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
You are correct, there was no before the before the
employees are in, before the ushers are in. There's none
of that when people are still setting up the main
banners and the main chairs, and you know the seat covering.
So in life seat covering, those ain't on there two pm.
Those on there. There's no life seats. It's his regular
seats that's to fight. But yeah, no, yeah, he doesn't

(13:53):
have the traditional upbring of a he didn't have the
traditional upbring of a boxer, and he kind of skipped
the line. And also, we know this is a joke
for him. This isn't a really serious Now, if he
wasn't making money, would he still be boxing. No, that
wouldn't be the case. We know how that goes. So

(14:13):
he's not a real boxer. He's doing this because it's convenient,
not because he loves boxing, and this is in his heart.
So that's why I'm kind of like, eh, I'm indifferent
to it. But he does make money, and I get it.
I understand why. I just don't really support it like that.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Sure, I agreed, and that's probably this is gonna be
the last thing I say about him, you know that
whole rant. And well also another actually one last thing
is that all of his fans, it keeps saying Jake
Paul's the goat. You know, he's a great fighter. He
can knock at Canelo, he can knock out Tank Davis.
I firmly believe that if he got into professional basketball

(14:50):
instead of boxing, those same people would be saying Jake
Paul's to goat. He could smoke Lebron in one on
one he could be the next Kobe Blah blah blah.
I think they say it because they were already fans.
I don't think they were fans because they really believe.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
That. And also, he has a huge following, so there's
a lot of people that gravitate towards him and they'll
support everything he does, whether it's energy drink, whether it's
reality show, whether it's a sport or whatever. So you
got to be mindful that. It kind of reminds me
in some form of other industries where people are fans
of that person, not the industry or the genre. They're

(15:26):
fans of a particular person, so they'll do anything a
person does, but they're not fans of the sport, so
they'll be glued in. They'll go to boxing matches, they're
not fans of boxing, they're fans of a person, so
when that person stops boxing, they're leaving two right.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
And you know, David Dukovany does have his shows, and
I'm sure he has his fans, but the guy traded
a name recognition to create I don't know. I think
it's like not quite it's like country adjacent folk ish
type of music that again is very bad, but I
say that as someone who is listen to a lot
of it, it just can't be the same. We just

(16:03):
can't treat you know. It'd be like if you are
a real fan of a lot of different kinds of music,
like a lot of different kinds of genres, and then
I tell you my favorite musician is jereedmy Redner, You're
gonna tell me to get the hell out of your face.
It's just not the same. And that's and that's how
I feel about Paul. And you know, I do hope

(16:24):
that he kind of changes his mind and wants to
do something else with his career so I don't have
to keep hearing about it and keep having to see
the social media plug it and the comments saying, you know,
he's the goat, he's the face of boxing, blah blah blahs.
It gets pretty exhausted. Next up in the news, Devin
Haney is moving up weight to one hundred and forty

(16:45):
seven pounds to the welterweight division to fight Brian Norman Jr.
Again with the Saudi's for another rea season match later
this year. Now, we both said we're both off hany
you know, we're not really excited about anything he's got
coming up. But this did surprise me because he lust
against Garcia, struggled against Loma, and now he's gonna fight
an even bigger guy.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I no, no. Also, here's the thing, man, here's the thing.
We also realize when boxers don't progress forever reason all
bets are off, whether their power doesn't translate, whether they're
not hungry anymore, whether they were over ready to begin with,
when you see the signs. We give too many guys

(17:28):
the benefit of the doubt. I think that's our biggest
issue is boxing fans, especially if we like the person
or they're undefeated, or the media tells us something, we'll
give a box or the benefit of the doubt before
we are pessimistic about it or pessimist about it. But
with that being said, there's been too many lackluster fights
by him to give him the benefit of the doubt.

(17:48):
There has not been enough positive things for me to
be like, oh yeah, I think it's no, I'm doubting
until for the notice that's fair.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I am definitely on with you. I'm very curious what
would it take for the Saudis to kind of cut
their losses on him, or even not doing just him
any other guys that kind of aren't, you know, showing
up up to muster.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's a it's a name thing. It's not necessarily a
performance thing. They're into names. That's why Wilder Josh was
going to be made next, next jot or next year.
So it's not necessarily a performance thing at the moment. Anyway.
They might change, but as of right now, it's about names.
We're We're blessed to be able to get Canela Crawford

(18:35):
because their two biggest names are also two really good fighters.
They want the show. They don't necessarily care about the
They want to the big marketing. They want the big
pre fight dollar. They're not always turned out the product itself,
as we've seen in other cards. The product hasn't been
great in some of the cards. They're more concerned about, Hey,

(18:57):
we got this together, we made this work. That's how.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, but how long could that last? I mean if
people are just not tuning in? You know, the Devin
Haiti got flamed over that performance in Times Square.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Are you aware of the money that they have and
what they do?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
And you know, I'm speaking about viewership though, I'm speaking
out fans and viewership who.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Just don't know people. As long as people have a name,
people will watch. I think that's the thing that even
when guy's overrated, right, so people will watch as long
as guys have a name and they are somewhat relevant.
Now I'm not saying relevant in a bad good way,
but if their name is out there, for whatever reason,

(19:41):
people will watch. You got deva Handy's dad out there
always talking to other fighters and trying to get other
fights made. That's keeping his son relevant and that happens
every time. But when he fights, that's just how it goes. Hell,
his dad might be tougher than him the way things
have seen, don't be I mean, you know what I mean.
His dad has had more bark then Devin at times.
So guys like that will be relevant. They'll be able

(20:04):
to fight and people know their name. It would have
like a four fight loss street for then the back
up and find somebody else. But until then, as long
as he's competitive and he's not losing fights, he's gonna
be on card for a while. And they're they're fighting
more frequently, they're planning to anyway, which is a good thing.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, I can appreciate that, and I appreciate the that
perspective because it just kind of clicks in my head.
You know. I people hate watch things. People would want
to watch Devi and Haiti to make fun of him
online for being bad even if he wins on the scorecards.
That is a driving force.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Hell.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I watched hate watch like two or three seasons of Dexter,
and I was like, when I say hate watched, I
hated every second of it, but I stuck there even
I'm not immune to it, so I can see. You know,
the I'll say this about Haiti. I'll defend him on
one point. You know, the thing that he keeps getting
called on social media's pillow hands, pillow hens. David Haiti

(20:59):
doesn't have any power. I don't like that because not
everybody is a knockout artist. Okay, you know, whatever you
want to say about his latest performances. That performance against
George Camboso's in Australia was fantastic, and that mean Devin
Hittey just completely demolished that man on points, on jabs
with great defense. So I mean he doesn't have to

(21:22):
have a knockout every fight. If you want to say that,
then who else's pillow heads? Everybody's favorite Rusky Dmitri Beval
who goes to the distance most of his fights.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
So here's the thing. The pillow hands thing is funny
first of all, but I think it's more of his
fights aren't exciting. So if you're not knocking guys out
and you're not very technical, your fights become boring, and
if you're not really looking good at those fights, it's
even worse. So I think that's more the criticism that
not only is he not knocking guys out, but his

(21:55):
fights are very lackluster, and even when he's winning, it's
not convincing a great performance. So that's where the name
calling comes in. When you don't knock guys out, but
you're dominating fights, we call you different things. We have
a different turn for that. So I think that's the
difference in terms of being able to put on a
show even while not knocking somebody out, but looking dominant

(22:16):
in the in the twelve rounds of the ten rounds
or however long it took to do. So, I think
that's the difference. That's the main switch between looking good
without dropping somebody or without you know, making somebody hurt
or make being lackluster and looking like hey, man, what's
going on? Because as a fight goes on and you
have a big name fighter in there and he's not

(22:37):
really taking care of business and it just don't look right,
then you start to doubt. Then you start to be like, yeah,
the power ain't there, did the power? Did the power
not move up with them? All kinds of questions start.
So I get it, but I think it's more of
how the fight goes I think that's a bigger question
than anything.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I can see that. I just have never loved the
thing where fans say like, well we just want to
see KOs, you want to see chaos. Go watch a
YouTube compilation of chaos if that's what you really care about,
because again it does. You know, Haney, for all of
his issues lately, used to be a skilled technical fighter
and moved well, I don't know what happened. Maybe the

(23:14):
Garcia fighter is a lot of people speculated kind of
threw them off his game. But again I've definished of
course Stevenson. You know, he had one boring fight and
then everybody just said this guy's no good. Not even
like this guy is a boring fighter. They said, this
guy just sucks and the skills are there.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
I'm glad you brought that fight up. Please hold I
have a message from that fight from someone that is
close to the situation. I don't know if I've showed
you this in the past, but I have a message
from someone.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Is this Is this a Mixed Company podcast exclusive? Jameson?

Speaker 3 (23:50):
It is? It is? It was a while ago, but
it was from someone. It was from a boxer I
can't name because I can't give me one moment here
and pulling it up even if you gotta not even
you gotta pause it real quick or not an aunt
of times so we can edit it. But give me
a few moments here. I gotta find it. But I
have a.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Well, why while you're looking it up? This is the
fight between, like I said, Shaker Stevenson and Edward Delo Santos,
which is number six three.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yep, hold on one moment because I have someone that
is an ex world champion that texts my guy something
and whatld on me let me find it. But yes,
I'm glad you brought that fight up. To That fight
is very important and it's the difference between the casual

(24:41):
fan and everyone else because a lot of people don't
quite understand that sometimes it's best just to survive. It's
not best to go in there going crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Wait, and I do remember that Chaquur said after the
fact that baby his hand was injured or something like that,
and he wasn't maybe he wasn't throwing the right at all.
I can't remember exactly what that was, but I do
remember that being part of the at least Chakour's take
on it. His defense, I guess you'd say on the
lackluster fight. And here's the thing. I agreed it was

(25:16):
a lackluster fight. He was also very clearly dominating on
the number of jabs against Delasento's. He was there using
a lot of defense, and you know, people are saying
he was running in the ring. I'll agree with that,
But at the end of the day, he got the
win solely on number of punches landed and Edwin Delsento's

(25:39):
couldn't really get in there, couldn't really get inside thanks
to Chakur's Chugar's defense. So I'm not saying that people
are wrong about it being a boring fight. I just
think he got too much guff for being, you know,
a bad fighter, and you know, people are flaming him online.
They're saying, Oh, the worst fight I've ever seen, blah
blah blah. He's completely over rated, So I just want

(26:02):
to see what I still think the kid has it
and has some really good skills, but I don't know.
Let's just see what your what your man's take on
there is.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, so it's very ironic that you bring that fight up.
There was a former world champ, a multi time world champ,
send a message to the group chat and it's basically like, hey, security,
we had to do he didn't take a lot of
chances he was safe because there's no real incentive on

(26:32):
in this fight taking a lot of risks. He can
win the fight basically fight the way he likes to fight.
And the CAVI fan doesn't want to hear that. But
from a boxer standpoint, especially how boxing is done, you're
not gonna take any unnecessary risks that you don't have to. Also,
there's bigger fights for him going forward, so there's no
need to risk trying to be hero or trying to

(26:53):
show people something that wasn't necessary in order to be
ultra aggressive potentially get caught with something. So it was
more like, hey, from a boxing standpoint, cancel the noise.
This is what he needs to do. He did, we
had to do to survive. And I think fight fans
don't want to hear or see that because they're trying
to see an action packed fight. They're trying to see blood,

(27:13):
they're trying to see people to the toe. Boxers understand that, hey,
fight by fight, let's survive in advance to get to
the next situation. And that's that was the difference of
the thinking. So it would opened my eyes a lot
when that came across the group chat.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
So was it because Edwin della sentence just they didn't
think he was much of a challenge at all? Or
what was that? What was the reason that Shakurd just
didn't feel like or didn't feel the need to put
up that much of an effort.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
The fight before. The power that he showed was dangerous
and they were very cautious of they're probably two cautionus
of it. I forgot who exactly we fought the fight before,
but de Losandeles showed a lot of power. I may
even drop the fighter before, And they were very cautious
of that, and they were saying, hey, this is what
he's capable of, so be careful make sure you don't

(28:02):
get caught with this, because here's the thing. We all know,
you're one punch away from changing a career.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Now.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
We know, once a guy gets dropped in an embarrassing fashion,
a lot of times they never recover. So it's one
of those things to where you know, hey, you've gotta
be safe than sorry.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Okay, So that now I'm getting it. So Chakorus camp
knew that Edwin's power was dangerous, Dela Center's power was dangerous,
but also that he could not handle Chakor's style of
sticking and moving, sticking and moving and defense. Okay, So
that so I mean, you know, realistically speaking, that is

(28:44):
what boxing is is. You know, you find the guy's
weakness and you use your style against it. You get
matched with somebody or you are just your style to
you know this guy's weak at the body, you're gonna
stick a lot to the body. You know this guy's
uh can't fight as well on the inside. So I
don't know, it sounds to me like that's just art boxing.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
It is, but y'all look at like this. Most fans
want to see a brawl right, most casfectly on ESPN
when fights on ESPN. They don't want to see sticking
and moving and points. They want to see knockdowns. They
want to see knockouts. They want to see people fighting
middle of the ring.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Hey, you know what if you're if you get the win,
you get the win. And at the end of the day,
to Chris Stevenson did, I don't know how much that
really affected his his career trajectory. You know, a lot
of fans talk a lot of their ship, but at
the end of the day, if he's still getting fights,
if he's still getting paid, I don't think he's gonna care.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
He's gotten this far, he's gotten this far doing it
his way. He has no he has no reason to
do it any other way. Now, with that being said,
I don't know if his style works for other fighters,
guys that are more talented or just as talented as
he is. I'm not sure if power wise, if he
gets caught with a good shot by an above average

(29:58):
or a better fighter, I don't what happens, because to
this point he had only got caught with a lot
of big shots. He's been able to be out athletic,
outslit his opponent a lot of times. He is able
to fight someone with legit power and that legit athlete,
I'm curious see what happens. I am a big proponent
of the boxer beating the brawler. I'm a very big
proponent of that in a lot of cases. I would

(30:20):
like to see it because I do think your core's
skill set travels. I think it translates. I think it
does very well. However, one, I like to see him
be a little more aggressive going forward IFECI versus worthy opponents.
And secondly, I want to see him in a fight
where he's not running away with it. Can he dig
deep in a fight where he can't use his athleticism
and his quickness to just outpoint guys where he has

(30:44):
to throw shots in order to win a fight like
those are things I want to see. That's what makes
fighter's great. When they got to dig deep and go
to their C and D level plan because A and
B just didn't work for whatever reason they got neutralized
or just the bat matchup. Those are things I want
to see, and we'll see what happened. That looks like
he's being more active and he's more into things going forward,

(31:05):
so we'll see. But my biggest thing is with him,
what happens when it's round eight in the fight's four
to three either way, and he's not able to speed's
not working or he's not able to land because for
whatever reason, the person is just as athletic as he is,
then what happens. And that's why I want to see them.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
It's a really good take, and I do appreciate that.
I do remember Oscar Valdez actually said that he hurts Courses.
Sorry that Shaquur said that he was hurt by Oscar
Valdez with a body shot, and then Oscar Valdez said
he didn't even realize it, you know, to cour admit it,
like he got me. It hurt. It kind of affected
my game plan a little bit, but he rolled with it.

(31:48):
So I don't know. Maybe the kid can take some
power punch as well. Oscar Valdes not known for like
super power puncher, but he's he's always had some game.
You know, he could definitely, you can definitely throw a
really good punch with the best of them if he
needs to. So I don't know, maybe that's an indication
that Chakor is sturdier than he looks. And yeah, that

(32:10):
that fight was just like a kind of it was
a blowout. Was he was dominating both at speed and
in points, so and I find that a very exciting match.
So just some food for thought. Yeah, I'm wanting to
see more from him from Shaquor not Oscar Oscar, love
you man, but like maybe it's time to hang up
the gloves, right, But yeah, come to I don't know

(32:30):
events here in Tucson because I mentioned before he's from Nogali, Sonora,
which is like an hour south of us. So hometown
hero but great career. But yeah, Shugar Stevens in your
career should just be taking off. So I want to
see him fight more, want to see him challenge and yeah,
I want to see him really have his skills put
to the test. Great, Well, thank you for that. Inside

(32:51):
jameson from Your Guy Who Knows a Guy Mixed Company
Podcast Exclusive. Now we're going to move on to a
segment that I think it's gonna make for good conversation.
Is called pop Pugilism, a recurring segment in which was
gossay a movie, TV show or documentary about boxing, and
today we're talking about the latter. The movie today is
called Tyson from two thousand and eight, directed by renowned

(33:15):
sex pest James Toback. Usually I do a recap in
the film, but this is one that doesn't need much because, hey,
it's about Mike Tyson, one of the most known, most feared,
most revered, most notorious figures in boxing history. The movie
doesn't have any interviews or talking heads. It's just Mike
telling his own story to camera, GI giving us some

(33:35):
insights into some of the most crucial moments in his life.
Before I give my thoughts, Jamison, give me a little
insight on what you thought about this movie.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
So we've seen several Mike Tyson films, documentaries, programming, etc. Etc.
With that being said, we've all seen them in the
way that attack him or make him like a joke,
or make him look like a demon or or a monster.
This one was the rare one that humanized him, which

(34:04):
is very very rare for someone to do because most
people aren't into that. Most people want to sell and
want to make exploit someone. So it was very good
to see a different angle of Mike Tyson's life because
all we've seen from all the boxing stuff, all the
other stuff is Oh he's a monster, Oh he's this,
he's that, and he might be. He very well may be,

(34:28):
but we all know as people, we all have different
sides of this. We all have our good side, our
bad side, with the human side, we have our roofless side.
It was finally good to see his people side, his
human side. He showcased for the masses for change. It
was a refreshing view because if you was to the
media and by that time, unfortunately he had a sexual

(34:52):
assault situation, he went to jail, he had the earbying,
there were so many things that had happened to that
point to where, yeah, you think he's some person that
should be out with civilians, so you would think that
he's a person that probably should not be outside. However,
this paints him many a different lens. And I'm not
saying Mike is perfect. I'm definitely not saying that that

(35:14):
would be disingenuous. However, I think it's an interesting part
to where we have a situation where someone took the
time to really make him look like a human, a
regular human, despite the things and ideas that have been
spread across for it at that point, like what fifteen years,
twenty years, twenty plus years, So it was good to

(35:36):
see a change of pace.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Sure. Now we're thirty nine. You know, Mike Tyson has
been a figure in pulp culture pretty much as long
as we've been alive. We're old enough to remember watching
Mike fight, but maybe not old enough for peak peak
Mike years. And you know, we saw everything, the controversies
and everything that happened afterwards. I'm curious, did you actually
learn anything that you didn't already know about Mike is

(36:00):
especially everybody knows who he is, but especially boxing fans.
I feel like we just were inundated with everything about
this guy for decades.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Mike Tyson sells. That's the one that I've learned over
the years. You put Mike's name next to anything, it
sells hell right now, he's selling weed and gummies ironically, uh,
you know, and mushrooms. He sell mushrooms, I believe as well.
So anything next to his name is gonna have people's interests,
and that interests ain't always genuine, but his name sells

(36:28):
things sell. So with that being said, a lot of
these docks and movies were cash brabs because they they
exploited the ship that people want to see that sells,
not the stuff that makes him a human or a
you know, regular person that has feelings and emotions, But
it was more like, hey, look at the craziness he's done,

(36:49):
or hey, this guy guy's face his face tatted, look
at the look at the freak show, you know what
I mean? Like those are things that were selling. So
anytime you have a Tyson doc or Tyson move or
anything of that nature, it would always sell so vast.
The biggest issue when it came to him.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Right, And I think my question was more like, did
you learn anything about his life and his history that
you didn't know? Because there was a lot of things
that I saw, the things he talked about. He gave
some insights, some behind the scenes on you know, how
pissed he was at Hollyfield during the year, buddy, thing,
this and that, but I don't really feel like it
filled in too many pieces of the puzzle for me.
You know, it was definitely, you know, informative, but I

(37:30):
don't know. Again, like I said, this guy has just
been so permeated POLP culture so much that there was
nothing really that surprised me, that shocked me, that meant,
holy crap, you know, I didn't know about this or
that I think I did. I'm not taking anything away
from him telling a story and giving the insights that
were valuable. But I don't know. I feel like other

(37:51):
documentaries we've talked through, even other narrative films that are
based on real fighters, there's been more things that I go, oh,
that happened really? So yeah, what's That's my question to you?
Is anything about his life that you didn't really know
that came out in this movie?

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yes, No, there's really nothing. I mean, I've pretty much
watched every Mike Tyson movie interview, even the two movies,
you know what I mean, I've watched it all man
like Mike's Mike, and it's one of those things to
where to be honest with you. Yeah, I don't think
there's anything I learned differently down. Plus, I have family

(38:28):
from Brooklyn, so I know, like I know no about mine.
I know no more about him than the average person, so
I didn't necessarily learn more things. Plus ironically, he went
to one of his kids went to a school that
my friend was coaching at. So yeah, I've the scene known,
I've Yeah, I definitely not much I don't know about
Mike Tyson. There was more of a situation where the

(38:51):
way he's covered. I think we treat Mike differently now
than ever before. And this was back in O eight,
so this was different, but noways we treat Mike like
a person. We still get crazy with him at times,
and we also know that, hey, he can still be
crazy at times. But for the most part, the biggest

(39:12):
thing of that was more of just humanizing him and
not looking at him as an object but human. He
was the biggest takeaway, and that's something that I think
we still try to do at times, because yeah, he
will get emotional interviews. Yeah he'll break down and cry.
Yeah he'll break down and want to fight you if
you come out him the wrong way. Why you know.
So it's still those things, but there's not really anything
I learned. It was just more of like I had

(39:34):
never seen a piece that was pro Mike Tyson instead
of pro Dollar if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, I and I remember, maybe not super vividly, but
I remember the I don't know what would you call it,
just not uproar, but just how people wouldn't shut up
about his facetat and how you know crazy that was
and what And I still remember being like, I don't know,
what's the big deal. I mean, maybe it's because Mexican
and you know, so many people with neck tattoos that

(40:02):
I grew up seeing, you know, with their kids' names
in old English, with a little crown dotting the eye.
That base tattoo wasn't that big of a deal. I've
got friends now that have like that tat sleeves, you know,
all over the back and legs and stuff, and even
back then, it didn't seem like that much of a thing.
What's your take on that? Why was that such a
crazy thing?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Because it was out of random. It wasn't like something
that he had worked on. It wasn't like it was
a small one that turned into a bigger one. It
was literally the whole half of his face. And that's
not normal, especially fifteen years almost twenty years ago. That
wasn't the norm back then. That was way we looked
at this way. We looked at people differently if they

(40:45):
had a face or a neck tattoo back then than
we do today. Like our thoughts and opinions about people
with tattoos are even different today than they were back then.
And you couple that with it being Mike Tyson, all bets.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Are off, okay, And I can see that for maybe
the general public that would make sense. I'm just saying,
and it didn't really strike me as anything too crazy
or outlandish. But that's just me. Also, you know, I
don't know, I do weird shit. I hang around weird people.
Maybe that's just because how I live my life.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Drinks and it's over one hundred degrees and wonder why
I'm tired?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, exactly, wonder why I'm tired?

Speaker 3 (41:21):
What a saying like how much water you are you
having per hour per day and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Well, you know, like they watered down those drinks at
the dive bars. They're not making it all alcohol.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
That ain't it? That? Ain't it all?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Right? Well, you know what, there's hydration and whiskey. Right,
it's liquid, so it's got to be helping somewhere or another.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Right, No, No, that's cool, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
How about this. When I wake up at like two PM,
I do chuck a shit ton of Gatorade, the small ones,
but like a bunch of those.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
It's not bad. But you want to stay away from
gatoray because it has a lot of sodium in it,
so it keeps me hot, righting. So I'm just give
your heads up that's all. Okay, Well, drink a who
whole lot water is the best bet water, coconut water,
and pedia.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Like, okay, okay, maybe if I started putting more water
in my dat I can make it to like forty
eight instead of like forty two.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yeah, it's a few man, he's made it forty, say
more than two years.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Our producer Jurmi just added and said, the icing your
drink doesn't count. That's your body fighting off a stroke.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
So I want to keep the conversation about Mike Tyson
going overall, but I do want to pop in with
something about the movie specifically. It had a lot of
like artsy tricks that try to keep it interesting. I
didn't love it. So it had several clips of Mike
Tyson talking over himself like it's a Robert Altman movie
or something, and it would be different panels with different

(42:49):
shots like a comic book. There was shots of Mike
on the beach while he was reciting poems, you know
in voiceover that part. I was following the fuck asleep,
like when they cut to him, I don't know what
he was reading or what he was getting at, or
what James Tobac was getting at I could not give
a shit. I wanted to get back to the stories,
you know, to his insights. It actually reminded me of

(43:11):
when I was in college. I made a stab at
trying to make documentary films with a crappy little handheld camcorder,
and I had a lot of these things made me
think of what I had in my head, like shots
at weird angles while people are talking, kind of arty things.
I would have people interview and like stand over here
and I'd try to put the sun behind their back

(43:32):
or something like that. But then I realized that I
didn't really know how to shoot, light or edit any
of that night. So I had the ambition, but I
didn't have the tools or the talent. But seeing it now,
I'm like, well, that's when my things would have turned
into maybe it's for the best that I kind of
you know, my filmmaking years were very short. But yeah,

(43:57):
but I did appreciate not just the insight, but a
lot of the footage about the fights that Mike was
talking about. Of course, you know, they head his early
years when he would knock out dudes, and like, what
a minute and a half I think I read that
there was like first twelve out of it. Twelve of
his first eighteen fights were first round knockouts in a
minute and a half. What's the we know that people

(44:20):
want to see? KOs I always appreciate a late ko
like ten eleven or twelve round because you have an
exciting fight, competitive fight, and then it's like a twist ending.
Do people really love watch sitting down and anticipating a
ninety second fight? I mean, what, what's what was.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
The casual fan? That was for the casual That wasn't
for us, that was for America and the people across
the world because it became a phenomenon. But real boxers
like saying one dominant boxer, wear down the opponent and
closing the show late ten to eleven, twelve round because
you've dominated, you've hit the body, wore down the body,

(45:00):
you've timed everything up, and you've delivered the blow or
the blows to end the show. I think that's what
most boxing fans like to see. If God gets dropped
in the first second round, well shit, we got dressed
up and do all this for a two round fight
that ain't really hit b Like nah, I want to
see a back and forth. I personally like watching boxers

(45:21):
adjustment fight. I'm a big fan of adjusting, changing up
game plans, making the other fighting fight er think. I
like those Excuse me, I like those things more than
anything because you don't learn much from a quick knockout.
You just don't like you don't. Because here's the thing.

(45:41):
I love Tank Davis, but I learned more about him
in his last fight than I did in any other others,
like having to actually go the distance, have a questionable
result that could have went either weigh in some cases,
and you know, he kind of had to dig deep.
He has some niversity in the fight. Some could argue,
you guys should have lost the fight. Those are things

(46:03):
that I personally enjoy more than him drop somebody around him,
dropping somebody around where he doesn't make my like, all right,
it's cool, but it doesn't make me to covete different sure, and.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Bringing up tanks specifically, he has been typically like six
seven eight round knockout artists, which that I do appreciate
because I like when fighters tid to take their time
downloading information, learning about the other guy, then adjusting around them,
kind of hitting in the middle. So Tank is kind
of like ideal. You don't want to go lower than
that I remember, but also it can be very exciting

(46:37):
watching uh Keishawn Davis. I believe it was Valentine's Day,
fourth round knockout against.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
That name was banned until money back.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
That's true, that's fair.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
You know, he can't bring him up. He's unfucked on
a lot of people, and a lot of people are
upset with him, and he robbed some performance in his hometown.
We we can't, okay, I'm.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Okay with this studying that rule this the podcast could
have excommunicados like it's John Wick or some ship. You
know what, let's do key Shawn ex Community cut it
from the podcast. Jake Paul Excamuty cut it from the
podcast as well. Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean, the
the most interesting thing was seeing the the losses. Mike's losses,

(47:25):
first one to Buster Douglas is still one of the
biggest upsets in sports history. Yeah, what what I saw
and actually we talked about it and last episode that
you know, Mike is terrified. Mike will get on the inside.
He'll hit you, hit the body, hit you with a number.
Cut the sentence, dudes of the fucking phantom zone. Yep,
but Buster Douglas and Vander Holyfield did, kept them at

(47:47):
a distance, stopped him from moving forward. He couldn't fight
off the back foot, and they made Mike fight their fight.
And that's that was the key, you know, not that
it's an easy thing to do with something like that,
but that was that was the trick.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
I wonder if Buster Douglas doesn't survive that uppercut in
round seven of that fight, I want or what I
don't go off top? I think, I wonder what happens
because then there's no blueprint on beating Mic. Then there's
no hey, do this this and that. You know that,
you know you can follow because if he drops him

(48:23):
around seven or eight, it's just another victim on the lips,
it's just another guy he beats and the show goes on.
But once you lose, there's a blueprint on how to
how to give my problems, how to beat someone. So
that's like one of those what happened what ifs, one
of the great what ifs. If that fight goes different.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, obviously
he was going to be unbeatable. I think at some
point if it wasn't Buster Douglas, like maybe somebody would
have cracked the code, but but I don't know. Maybe
he's they maybe somebody had to see Buster Douglas, who,
by the way, won the championship and I think immediately
lost it to somebody else, so he never really became

(49:03):
like a huge name or the biggest star in boxing.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
I think it was actually, yeah, right, we're trying to
make Tyson holyyfood back in ninety one, but that we
know obviously went left.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
And yeah, yep, just confirmed by our producer it was
holy Field. Yeah, you know, I don't know. The holy
Field clips are very interesting, you know because the first
fight there was really bad headbutt, like buckled Mike's legs.
I think he got a really bad cut. So I
actually rewound the clip on the documentary several times. It

(49:36):
didn't look intentional in that first one. It did look
like just two killers going forward with violent intention. And
another thing, you know, if that hadn't happened, could holy
Field have really kept it up and won that fight?
But again, that coupled with strategy of keeping Mike outside
keep him from getting, you know, into the kitchen. I

(49:58):
don't know, the strategy obviously worked, but yeah, the second fight,
you know Mike was saying those headbutts were intentional because
there were several that's what pissed them off, to bite
the ear off, et cetera. I go back and forth.
I could see where that was a little bit more aimed,
But Mike said, what was Evander Holyfield's head doing behind mine?

(50:21):
He's taller than me, okay, but like he's trying to
keep you from getting inside. He's trying to keep you
from you know, he's trying to get low to neutralize
that you would get in really fast and really strong
and just you know, upper cut the shit out of him.
So I go back and forth on that one. Now,
question few do we think? Do you think Mike is

(50:42):
like the most unique heavinweight fighter? Just if you ask
me any fighter, any heavyweight that's under six feet tall,
Off the top of my head, he's the only one
I can think of. His speed, his strength and speed
is something that really I can't think off the top
of my head, who else I've seen with that combination.
He said that he always like watching the little guys,

(51:04):
which I appreciate because I was a little guy growing
up and that's the fighters that I gravitated toward. Maybe
he watched who list of tennis that would have been dope.
But yeah, I mean who else had that combination of speed,
strength and that much of a height differential.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
He's definitely the most unique one we've ever seen, for sure.
I don't think that's the question. Mostly weight chances we've
had have either been bigger guys, taller guys, athletic guys,
especially that in that division heavyweight. Yeah, he's the guy
that forgot hunder six foot for the power he had,
for the quick twitch muscles he had, especially like eighties,

(51:44):
mic is different, different, different, different. If if he could
have stayed focused like he did early on later you know,
going forward, I think we have a different situation. Also,
if he didn't have to go to jail, I think
things are different as well. But you know, things happened
and that's what it is. But just in general, Mike

(52:05):
and his prime is probably the most unique boxer we've
ever had. Because we don't have short heavyweight fighters. That
doesn't matter. Even nowadays, there's no short heavyweight that doesn't
go just doesn't like. He's an anomaly and he got
the most out of what he can do during his
peak of his powers. It just sucks. At his peak

(52:25):
was from like eighty six to ninety. It sucks. Only
we have like an eight to ten year peak. We
had four three and a half four. That's the thing
that sucks. So we didn't get to see him fight
Holyfield ninety one when he was in his peak. He
fought five years later, four or five years later, when
you know, it wasn't his peak.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
So yeah, right, And just to clarify, Mike is according
to the enerne's five to ten. So he's not a
little guy by any means.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
For every weight he is though, but yeah, his feet,
they have longer arms, they're bigger guy in general. Why
health Tyson Fury now was six', nine you know whatever he.
Is you, Know wilder is six.' seven well he's, not
big but six seven, two thirty which. Is, crazy yeah
he's most of the heat with his. Bigger.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Guys, Yeah yeah and THAT'S what i was. Getting at
it's like compared to the, other heavyweights, you know definitely.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
An.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Anomaly yeah first, Of all, I'LL say i don't know
that we'll see a fighter like.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
That.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Ever again, you know he was lightning in. A bottle
i don't. Believe that now with, that said there was
a Period like i'd say early is two THOUSANDS when
i started moving away, from boxing from watching boxing or.
FOLLOWING it i doing the show has been so cool
because it's like reconnecting with an old Friend and, i'm
like why did we ever stop talking? Professional boxing? You

(53:49):
know where was the time when the heavyweight division started
moving Away from americans and Mostly? Black americans because now
and there's, been people, you know Coming After tyson fury
fights who have straight up sat on. Multiple, occasions oh
the era of the black heavyweight fighter. Is over with
a little too, much glee, like okay.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
At the End Of lynx, lewis's run in the beginning
Of The, clitch goes that's when. Everything changed so they
went From The clitch goes to basically what we. See
now so that's why even Though with wilder and to a,
Certain extent joshua you know is basically, you know that's,

(54:30):
Basically YEAH like i, would say the End Of lynox
lewis is when. Everything changed and he's Not. An american He's,
making british so that's a whole. Different thing even though
he's a cool dude, in person really actually really dope
person is off to but, but yeah that's kind of when.
Things changed the clitch goes, changed everything.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Got, it yeah that's that's about a little a little
Era where I'm where i'm fuzzy and, you know the
kind of name run together and the air run together
and just a. Little nebulous, You know i've kind of
dipped in and out of boxing fandom most of. My
life but that's really interesting to learn because it's so.
Vastly different, you know that was that, was clear so

(55:15):
very clearly dominated in. The nineties, you know the black,
Heavyweight fighter american. Heavyweight fighters but, you know. WHO knows
i don't know who could be Another? Black american are
just black fighter who could be a. Heavyweight CHAMPION but
i don't see a lot. OF prospects i don't see
a lot of potential. Out there, You Know, deontay was

(55:36):
it's good To have deonta in, the mix but we
already said he's not going To be he's nobody's.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Champion. Anymore, right also people don't find. No more white
kids don't fight. No more so it's hard to get
a guy that's six, foot three two hundred and. Fifty
pounds that person's, playing football so it's. Just, hard like
it's not we don't raise boxers more. Like that if
we do, their young their smaller guys or. Not heavyweights

(56:03):
if a guy's athletic and he's, a heavyweight he's probably playing.
Basketball football that's a really.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Good point and again that's Something that i've always, connected
To and i've never really connected as much with the
heavyweight division Because like i'm, five NINE and i, WAS
like i, don't know like one hundred and thirty pounds,
in college So now i'm way more. Than that but
that's we don't have to worry. About that that's. Nobody's,
Business alcohol.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
That's that's what.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
You get, Hold on, HOLD ON i i drink a
lot of booze AND then i eat a lot of late,
night tacos AND then i pee and poop, a lot like,
for hours, And, That okay I'm getting i'm shedding that Weight,
right like that's how. It works it goes right. Through
me so it's basically like a. Net zero, come, On,
right okay.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Fair enough?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Fair enough, oh anyway so last Question on MIKE that
i have for for the. Group here, you know how
do you see? His legacy, you know after the after
the time and after that really rough period when, you
know they showed that clip of Him against OH like
i don't remember in two thousand, and two and he

(57:09):
just said he got. Knocked down he looked like an, old,
man said my heart's not. IN it i just needed
to pay. The bills who?

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Was that do? You remember not until though? Too, right
no it was.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
After that it was the one where he was, just
like because he haven't he couldn't get a boxing license for.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
A while THAT'S why i was an Entheus Because new
York nor vegas would give a. Boxing license so that's
why he was At the Pyramid. In, Memphis uh, KEVIN
McBride i think is what you.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Referred, to, yes yes THAT'S what. I think and he
he just said straight UP like i didn't really want.
TO fight i just got bills. To pay he had.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
A lot of, TAX issues a lot of.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Tax. Issues yeah but then we got a comeback in
pop culture because Of the. HANGOVER movie i might have
been in the, sequels too had an adult, swim Cartoon The. Tyson.
Mysteries yeah now. SELLING weed i didn't know he. SOLD
mushrooms i know he. Sold, weed uh he's didn't he
sell edibles with The vander holyfield and they were shaped

(58:08):
like in. The, air yeah the. Ear edibles, So yeah
mike is, you know, he's back but he's been through
some up and. Down periods what's what's your take on?
His legacy, after all that didn't. Tarnish anything so.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
This country does a good job of building, you up
to tear you down and then build you back up
again when they feel. Like IT and i think he
was a prime example because he didn't have no one in.
This corner there was no one that had his best interest.
At heart along the way After customer, will died everyone
was there to make money off of him and profit,
off him besides seeing his actual best interest. At Heart

(58:44):
now i'm not saying he, was perfect because. He wasn't
he ate a lot of self. Destructive, things however there
was never a person, that Said hey, Mike Chill hey.
Mike focused everybody was there for the. Gravy train the
money was, going well, the money, the liquor, the drugs
and everything was. Going well and we're all out here
when you see the when you see him go back
to that locker Room in tokyo, and ninety it's a

(59:05):
different thing and that never never really recovered. From that
myself and the producer always joke About, the tyson, you
Know the, tyson uppercut because sometimes people, don't recover, and
unfortunately he didn't have the support staff. To recover he
didn't have the infrastructure from within to get, over. That

(59:27):
unfortunately and that's just. What happened is one of those
things to where it sucked because back then we didn't
view things like we. Do now we don't think about
the full picture as we. Do now back things like,
oh shit, he lost he must be, a loser, he's terrible,
blah blah and now we actually do a deeper diving
the thing of why do, he lose, what happened how
could this? Been avoided, et cetera. Et cetera so this

(59:49):
country build it up to him to be some superhero angry.
Man too then the sexual assault, thing happens he goes,
to jail and then he comes out, of jail he
fights and He bites. Vanner's ear so now all this
craziness happens within, a decade and then the, next thing,
you know you basically have to fight until, you can't

(01:00:11):
and then he becomes a sympathetic figure because he's broke
and he's, worn down you KNOW what. I mean so
now we look at him. Way differently the we're not
gonna think of him as the unruly black man like
you would have thirty. Years ago there's way more sympathetic two.
Things now but still He Trees. Mike tyson. He's crazy
the first thing you Think Of mike tyson and. He's,

(01:00:32):
crazy unfortunately that's how it's going. To be i'm not saying,
it's right but you think of crazy when you Bring Up.
Mike tyson whether it's fair. OR not i don't make,
the rules but that's the first thing you think of,
is like, oh shits something crazy must.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Have Happened, right well in, THESE days, i mean he
is more of just like a, clownish figure not even
the way, he behaves the way people. See, him again
he's got, a cartoon he's. Selling weed it's just kind
of more of a. Silly guy and he's he's definitely
become less of a of, a terrifying, feared figure though

(01:01:05):
we still probably should. Be here here's the thing too about.
THE uh, i know We Excommunicado, Jake paul so we're
gonna excommunicado His brother Logan. Pu yeah, oh, wait sorry
MY mad i was gonna Say That Tyson, Logan palfi
but that's not what happened. At, all no that's HOW
little i care. About, that, no, no yeah that last

(01:01:26):
thing that bummed, Me OUT and I remember i talked
about on the show because that was like our. Second
episode maybe when. That happened there friends of mine who are, just, like,
NO man i gotta go Back see mike in. THE
ring i gotta. Watch it, but honestly do you let?

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Shit?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Go, man sometimes just let. Shit go Let let mike
be the. Weed guy let, him be, you know the
the comedy, movie guy and just stop stop trying to
reach for. The past we can't go. Back again, you
know we're all of our our knees probably aren't gonna
start unhurting the. Older weekend so let's let Let the
mike's legacy live where. It was go back and watch

(01:02:02):
those fights and you know there everything's on. YouTube nowadays
i appreciate where, he was and then, also appreciate, you
know We wouldn't we learned more from our losses than from.
Our wins appreciate what it took to bring that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Bad down and he. Multiple losses so here's. The thing
YOU and i have, private losses go to. Regular people
so our losses are within they very readily. Get shared
all his loss all his most embarrassing moments came in the.
Public Eye the tokyo thing happened in front of thousands,
of people millions across. The world the earbodying thing happened

(01:02:34):
ON live tv thirty, years ago damn near and. Everybody's
watching and then if you, weren't watching you instantly got
a phone call or page, Talking, about hey did you
see or hear what? Just happened and it was all over,
every newspaper every new every news channel in this world
was showing the. Earbody incident and there's a famous picture

(01:02:57):
that you see on the ring that Basically. Divides tyson
there's a bunch, of Cops L metro pd cops and
holy feel because he had just bet that man's either, and,
yeah man It, Was yeah i'll never that's that's one
of those EVENTS where, I knew i KNOW where, I
was i KNOW where i watched the, FIGHT that i
KNOW who i, WAS with i. Knew everything i'll never forget.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
That Night never i'd remember. That WELL but i did
watch it live with my family with the black cable
box that my dad had back in. The, day yeah.
You're right it Was everywhere Late, that letterman, you know
all those GUYS.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
In, Cnsbc fox it was everywhere that had an outlook
that all people were. Talking about and it was a
pay per view fight back in the day when you
had to actually either have a legal cable or you
bought the pay per.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
View and you had to, call, in right he had
to call in and give a code for.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
THE day i remember. That online you had to call
in his weight and, then, yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Man We, watched, YEAH no I mean i, really appreciated,
you know, the movie kind Of letting mike speak. FOR
himself i always, think, that oh just a couple couple
of class quick things on the movie before we.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Head.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
OUT uh i wish he talked more About, don king
because we did a talked about A don king movie,
last time AND he, i WROTE and i wrote some.
Things down he called a wretched, a reptilian said he
would kill his mother for. A, dollar despicable, you know
he went on a rent and then just it didn't
come back, to, It HONESTLY and i kind of wanted

(01:04:28):
more from his his side of it in, that movie
people don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Reliving Trauma don king brings a lot of Trauma To mike.
Tyson's life he's trying to take him. A Court don
king has done a lot of. Boxers wrong it's the
reason Why That don king doesn't have any fighters Today
And bob. Aaron does i'm Not saying Bob aarm is
is any Better Than don king's. Probably, worse however it
shows how things have gone over. The years usually when

(01:04:53):
you do, people wrong eventually that work gets out and
you know it is what it. Is, Now again i'm
not OUVKAY from i think he's. Terrible too they're all. The,
same however it's it definitely means Something that doc he don't,
have nobody he don't have a single boxer and top
rank is still. Top ranked kind of tells the full
story right there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Well as always jameson, excellent conversation really. Fun episode let's
get out of here and where can people find you on?

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Social media I'm on twitter At. YOU jamison i always
love watching the fights. With y'all we haven't had a
big fight night as a group in. A while that might.
Change soon, but, uh man as long as there's, Fights on,
i'm happy Just very i'm counting down to the. Main,
Event man we've got a main event here In a,
legion stadium, you know in a couple. OF months i.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
CAN'T wait i can't. Wait either and we're gonna be talking.
Way more if you if you get sick of Hearing About,
cadello crawford then, You know i'm so sorry because that's
gonna come up more and more as he.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Is closer that's that's the biggest event in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
The, sport, yeah absolutely, so well Definitely follow Jamison, on
twitter follow me At The classy alcoholic On, his ptagram And.
Blue sky the podcast has Its own twitter And blue.
Sky account they're Both At. Mixed copodcast subscribe to our Show, On, Apple,
spotify iHeartRadio And. Amazon music leave us a five star
review that only takes a minute and it helps us

(01:06:13):
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(01:06:36):
new episodes Every, other thursday so please join us Again
on july SEVENTEENTH For ms Fuego And moss conversation From The.
Boxing world thank you so much, for listening and salute
yow yeah