TMCP EP 28: What WIll Dana White Do to the Boxing World?

Luis and Jamieson are back for another fantastic episode this week. The two of them dove into the potential impact of Dana White's continued encroachment upon the boxing world, particularly on the business side of things.

They also discussed Danny Garcia's impressive performance in what was slated to be his "final" fight...perhaps, until he looked so dominant?!?

This week's Pop Pugilism breakdown: Manny (2014) dir. Ryan Moore & Leon Gast

Watch the full episode here:    • The Mixed Company Podcast  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
In this corner, standing at six foot five, weight class unknowns,
but hailing from the city of.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Sam Put your hands together for Jamison.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Row And in this standing at five foot ten, weighing
in at pound and coming to us from his super
secret bunker with no ac in Tucson, Arizona.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Put your hands together for Louis Montemao. Welcome back to
another episode of the Next Company podcast. Of course, on
one half of the show, Jameis and Welsh always drawn
by Louise and Louise. What's going on, man? It's been
an eventful two weeks and change.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
What's going on man, jameson, I am stoked to be
back on the MIC for episode twenty eight, still celebrating
spooky season. I'm a little sleep deprived. I had a
double feature of Texas Chainsawn Masacer at Nightmare on Numb Street,
so I don't think I'm sleeping with the lights off
for the rest of this month. Possibly, are you looking
scars gart movies? No? No, how about this? Not typically,

(00:58):
but you know when you watch a couple in a
row and you turn off the lights and like the
fridge makes a noise, You're like, well, what the hell
is that? So yeah, yeah, yeah, typically not, but you
know it's a how about this. I watch scary movies
all year. They hit different when it's in October.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
So yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Plus plus I live in the ghetto, so there's always
it's always dangerous outside of Asta. Come on, but no, man, Yeah,
really excited to be back on the show here talking
to Boxing News. Let's get into it. But first I
want to thank our sponsored Delightful Smoke Shop in Tucson, Arizona,
for sponsoring the news segment. Check them out at six
twenty second Street and mark your calendars for Saturday, November fifteenth,

(01:39):
because they will be having the third annual Car Show
Extravaganza at five pm on site, so I'll be there
most likely with our producer Jabari Davis as well. So
I'm pretty stoked. So thanks to Delightful Smoke Shop for
the sponsorship and for forgetting his notice on the car show.
But yeah, let's see this past weekend, so we have

(02:01):
been working with a platform called Millions dot Co officials
partner of nineteen Media Group or network, and we've actually
been doing some interviews with some fighters thanks to their help,
and they were behind a pay per view for Danny
Garcia versus Daniel Gonzalez this past Saturday. Danny Garcia this

(02:21):
was supposed to be his big farewell to Brooklyn. Turns
out the fight ended with a Garcia knockout in the
fourth round with a killer hook, and Danny's already saying, well,
I got a probably got another fight in me. You know,
a lot of big talk about retirement, but you know,
you get a taste of success. It's kind of like
what we said about our boy Matt. Sorry you said
about our boy Manipacchio. Competitive fight keeps him fighting, kind

(02:44):
of brings him back into the ring. What is that
feeling of Like it must be that that I said,
that tastes of the success that you just can't you
just can't let go of. Fighters can't let go of.
I don't know what do you think about this this
trend player, Well, big.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Part of it is you guys retire at the end
when it's over, when it's over over. I don't like
the farewell of Brooklyn though Danny's a Philly fighter. I
know he fought a lot of fights in Brooklyn, but
he would have sold out Philly, or at least did
like twelve or thirteen thousand in Philly. I don't know
if the venue was available. I don't know all the
details about that. I know it is basketball and football season,

(03:20):
so it might be a little bit more difficult than normal. However,
with that being said, I would prefer that fight being
in Philly personally, but that's hither there. Fires fight until
they can't. So if a fire feels like he still
has something, he's gonna fight for a lot of reasons. One,
that's what they do. That's what they know. So that's
what you know, and that's what you do. You're gonna

(03:40):
keep doing it till you can't know more. Also, the money,
there's a checkout there, they're gonna get that check. And
he's one of the few guys out there that has
some name recognition. We're off name alone. He can probably
get a half million just to be on someone's card,
maybe a million, just because and those things count, and
especially in an economy that's kind of tough right now.
I don't blame anyone for trying to get that is

(04:00):
they can get it.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
That's fair. You know, he's still obviously got name recognition,
he's still got some some heat on his name, and yeah,
I mean, if you if it went the distance, and
you know, maybe he kind of wont a split decision majority.
I could understand maybe him saying like, well, I'm gonna
stick to it, I'm gonna say my goodbyes, but you
got a fourth round knockout, and you know you got
They play all this stuff over and over in social media.

(04:23):
You know, I can't. I bet you get hyped up
and you're like, yeah, let's do that ship. Get I
can't I carry it. I mean, you know, I've only
ever done sparring with friends, but that that adrenaline rush
is no joke. It is not it's you can't. You
can't deny the Yeah, the the motivation of that adrenaline

(04:45):
rush of of you know, throws some punches, not dying
after getting hit in the face. For me specifically, that's
probably like my biggest the biggest w I tuck is
leaving the gym on my feet when I was doing
this ship But yeah, I mean the only thing about
it is that. But of course what I was doing
had his own level of danger. But getting into a
ring that is also no joke. You know that people

(05:07):
are putting their lives at risk every time they get
on there. So you know, hopefully with our fighters that
are getting up there in age, you know, they're not
putting themselves to that kind of position where, you know, right,
something tragic might happen. Knock on wood, right. But speaking
of Millions, by the way, so they were kind of
enough to set up some interviews for us, well for

(05:29):
me specifically, because there's only one one host at a time,
so I was very grateful for them. I was able
to talk to a couple of guys, one of them
named Johan Ingram, nicknamed the Boogeyman, the other guy named
the Dedication Daniel Bailey Junior. Awesome guys, really cool time
talking to them. It was a lot of fun. So

(05:49):
those interviews actually they're exclusively either on Millions dot co.
Our show is on there, video uploaded every time we
record an episode, or on YouTube we are we have
a playlist on nineteen media groups channel. So I would
encourage you to check those out. Uh, leave it a like,
give it a comment. If there are other questions, because
we do want to keep doing this with fighters. If
there's questions that you think you want to learn from

(06:10):
professional fighters, these are pros, please let us know. Here's
a little a little taste of what my interview with
Daniel Bailey.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Advice, and you learn from it, learn from their mistakes.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Let's say you've got a young kid who is getting
into boxing, a teenager and is really dedicated and loves it.
What steps would that kid I have to take to
go to get something more serious?

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Learn from everybody when you have a boxer at a gym,
you got guys who've been pro for years. You got
guys who've been through what you're going through. So ask
those guys for advice, and you learn from it. Learn
from their mistakes because they gonna tell you what they
wish they would have done and things that you should
do immediately.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Awesome, what a great and a handsome interviewer that was.
But yeah, I know it was a lot of fun.
And also there's a lot of things I learned as well.
So it's because I don't know. I wouldn't imagine that
some guys in a boxing gym are also pros. Are
like like a gym that I would go to, like,
it wouldn't be in my mind that somebody was pro

(07:11):
at one time and actually fought just sitting there, you know,
in the same gym as I am, you know, hitting
the heavy bag or whatever. But that's a legitimate a thing,
like there's no there's no pro versus like you know,
gym's for regular dudes, right when it comes to boxing,
So no.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Gym is one size fit all. That's the funniest part
when we're talking about boxing, is it's unique unlike anything else. Uh,
there's no there's no rhyme or reason with boxing. It's
just boxing. Yeah, you have the gym is open to
the pros, but also when the pro's not there, you
got everybody training there. That's just how it goes now.

(07:48):
I like how he mentioned you learned from everyone else's mistakes.
That's a good thing we see. I'll give you an example,
Shakur Stevenson and Adrian Browner. You can see or one
guy's learning from someone else's mistakes seeing or one guy's
off the deep bend, and one guy's pretty level headed
and grounded and focused on the boxing as a whole.
You don't hear a lot of things by cur Stevenson

(08:10):
out there in the streets. You don't hear them about
him being outside or causing any problems or any legal issues.
You see Adrian brown like Adrian Brono was all these
guys OG because he came up a while ago. He's
all these guys as OG. He's the guy people looked
up to because at one time he was one of
the faces of the of the sport of the New era,
and we saw how that ended. So I like, how

(08:31):
you want people mistakes. Unfortunately, there's mistakes to learn from,
you know, it happens that way. But yeah, it's fairly
interesting for sure.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, especially since another thing with boxing that you know,
these are sometimes literal children, you know, getting into the
sport and training. You have to be really because it's
that it's a young man's game and if you don't
have somebody to guide you, not just on how to
throw a punch, you know, on how to move your feet.
There's all of these aspects of something we talked about
with both of these fighters that interview too, is like

(09:00):
careers end outside of the ring all the time, kind
of the way you said, people get in trouble, you know,
they get legal trouble, that they're not focused and it's
just it's just crazy. I mean I kind of feel like,
here's the question, because I only ever follow boxing. I've
only ever cared about boxing. Does boxing have like a
history of more notoriously like fighters getting into trouble outside

(09:23):
the ring than NFL or NBA does? I don't know
the different.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
A lot of boxers train here, so when you're training here,
living here, there's a lot of temptation in Vegas, especially
when let's say you train four hours out the day
hypothetically speaking, let's you do your ring stuff, your cardio,
your weightlifting. Let's say that takes four or five hours
out of your day. You got nineteen and twenty hours
still left in Las Vegas. You got pretty women, you

(09:49):
got gambling, you got food, you got drugs. If you partake,
everything is here for you every day. So Terrence Crawford
training in Nebraska, it makes a lot of sense because, hey,
now a lot of distractions are outside of family, not
a whole lot going on out that way, But in Vegas,
which most guys are hanging out at, there's a lot

(10:12):
of distraction here, a lot of temptation, especially for younger
guys that have never been out here like that. When
you move out here from wherever you're from, it's a
huge culture shock. It's a huge you know, basically, somebody
spilling water on you and you have no idea where
it came from. Now you got to try to regroup
and figure out everything's gonna fly. It ain't for everybody.
It don't work out for everybody, but some people it

(10:33):
does because also things like this too. You're out here,
you probably got a little coint on, you probably made
a little money, so you you're able to enjoy the
things you never have where you're from. So that's why
I always ask that question, because it's very hard staying focus,
especially once you got a little bit of money on you.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
That's a really really good point. And I mean, here's
the thing. You can be broken Vegas and just you know,
be only live at the gym because what else are
you gonna do? But yeah, if it's not it's never
been a cheap city, and I'm sure it's way less
cheap now to live in training you know, get around.
So uh yeah, it's kind of I would imagine as
a fighter training in Vegas with its history, and you know,

(11:10):
it's just it's just a super cool thing. It's like
you're kind of like being in the big leagues, you
know what I mean. For for a fighter trading in Vegas,
but but if you are a person who can make
it to the big leagues and you get there, then yeah,
how about this, Hey, there's a there's a reason that,
like I only did a couple a little bit of
boxing for fun because I would would never be dedicated

(11:32):
enough to live in Vegas. I just I can't live
in Vegas. Just now as a thirty nine year old band,
I just who has a decent.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Like, here's the thing. Everybody's camps are different. So back
in the day, people training big Beer. Big Beer was
a big place for a lot of boxers training that
for various reasons, get out the way and everything. But
Vegas is at the time, Vegas was very inexpensive, so
you can rent a house out for a very low price.
Cost living was very low and on the outskirts of
Vegas it's pretty quiet. But now now it's a little

(12:00):
bit different. It's not so inexpensive. A lot of things
have changed, so I get a lot of sides of it.
But yeah, things have definitely changed over the years.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Okay, So, and taking my original question, of course, you
live in Vegas to see a lot of fighters in Vegas,
but as a whole, do you see boxers as being
more boxers getting into trouble versus NBA players or foot players.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
No, because most NBA guys are kind of like socially awkward,
so they do their stuff outside that you don't really
see them outside like that, they'll be ducked off somewhere.
They don't really do a whole lot except boxers, and
even with boxers, like most people of For instance, I'll
give you an example Jay Lean Love, who was on
everybody's under card fight ten years ago, like he was
always on the Floyd under card away BBC, like first

(12:49):
fight of the of the TVs, part of the of
the car even VU before he was after the three
PM fights. But he wasn't so much short of a fight,
but he would be always around like you see see
you know, you see him at Costco, takeout food wherever.
So it was just you didn't see him now, you
didn't really see him out in about partying, but you

(13:10):
saw him out about in general. I think now it's
a lot different because social media and also the younger
people don't necessarily aren't necessarily out and about like that,
Like younger generation is not the same as our generation,
our generation, commember, our duration heard how great Vegas was
from our parents and our people, so it was like

(13:31):
a thing to like, Hey, I can't wait till I
get twenty one, twenty two. I'm gonna go Vegas and
go crazy. This younger generation don't act like that, so
it's kind of different. Now. With that being said, your
temptations are still here no matter if you know whatever,
whatever advice you have, it will get exploited here.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Okay, So are you saying that Vegas is for the
old heads now? Is that where we are? Well?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I mean old heads, I mean over thirty, that's what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Give you and me old heads, I said, I mean.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, I would say the older the over twenty eight
crowd for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
That's so interesting, you know, and again there's a lot
of things that I'm learning about boxing and boxing culture
that I never really learned before the show because I
always said I only care about what happens in the ring,
like when the bell rings, everything else going on, you know, deals,
press confidence, I've never kid about any of that. But
the culture of where you train is so important for fighters.

(14:25):
That's just wild to me. You know, learning this now
after you know, watching boxing ferbs as long as they're
a live boss.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well, Louise, think of like this, how many times has
a fighter got beat in the press conference? The corner
and the trainer is like, we should have had a
better camp, We should have had a better camp, We
should have took camp more. Seriously, we start a camp
too late. There's too many breaks in camp, too many
distractions of the camp. Happens often like whenever somebody lose
the fight they should lose. It was like the first

(14:51):
excuse they have less or hurt. But oh, our camp
wasn't as great as it should have been, or we
could have had a better camp, and that all all
that is uh intertwine. How however, you can't have a
great camp here in Vegas. You can do your job,
be ready for fight night. Man. That's not an excuse.
It just comes down to the strong will of the
person and also the person that's remain focused.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah. One of my interviews John Ingram, he trained out
of Vegas. Now he actually fights out of Arizona. But
he said he's he's a country boy, so he doesn't
go out like that. He does country things. He likes fishing,
you know, kind of things like that, so kind of
how it keeps his focus and then Daniel Bayle is
from Miami. Kind of the same thing. You know, that's Miami.
I always say, a lot of high flights, a lot
of hot nights. But his take on it was, you

(15:33):
grew up here, you just see like a celebrity. He said,
Lil Wayne is just walking down the street. You're like, oh,
that's a little Wayne. So that kind of was you know,
you see, yeah, beautiful ladies everywhere, but it's just kind
of what your life is. So it's a really really
interesting take from these guys who you know, they I
admire if I in so many ways, but I also

(15:54):
I always wonder for their next interview. I got to
ask somebody like, when you're that focused you live at
the gym, Like, do you feel like you're missing out
on partying on the weekends, you know, having a nice
you know, so a bunch of fried chicken, some steak, whatever,
Because yeah, I when I was.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Because some people are been on sweets. Some people really
crave sweets and like cheesecake and cookies and brownies, et cetera.
Some people are digged to the carbs. Some people love pasta,
Italian food, Chinese.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I was working out like, you know,
six days a week, a couple of hours in the gym,
but I was doing it so I could stuff my
fat face and get hammered on the weekends, you know
what I mean. So, but that's just like it's just
so different in that mindset of I can't really overdo it.
Even one day week chee days are not really that
much of a thing. It's just amazing. It's just like

(16:44):
an amazing mindset the fighters have. They're almost like space
aliens to me. I got without different there. But yeah,
so please yo, a couple of great interviews. I think
about did about twenty twenty five minutes or so with
each guy, so it doesn't take up a lot of
your time. Millions dot co. Find the Mixed Company podcast there,
or go to our YouTube channel sorry our YouTube playlist
on the nineteen media group channel to check those out.

(17:07):
So yeah, and one thing, just another thing that I
just want to mention. We don't have to get into
a whole thing, but tell Fema Lopez and Chris Stevenson
we're supposed to fight, are supposed to fight. At the
beginning of twenty twenty six, the tell Femo saying crap, like, well,
it's still marinating. It's still like we're figuring it out.
This file, this of all the people, this fight Putter

(17:29):
Knucket cancels.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
God damn it him, man, I'm getting tired because he's
the one that can make He's the one that can
make the fight. Sha Curse. Stevenson is taken a lot
of concessions with a lot of guys, and when it
comes to fights recently and negotiations or whatnot. Tired of
hearing this. I'm tired of the whole excuses. Either you
want to fight or you don't. At the end of
the day, let's cut the nonsense out. Let's cut the

(17:52):
posturing out Let's cut the tweets and all that out.
Either you want to fight or you don't. If you
don't want it, it's okay. We need to move on
to people who actually want to fight.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yes, Taylor is the A side, Score is the B side,
So yes, Chaquor. I feel that Shaquur is more serious
about it. I feel I mean, obviously, tail Fe Malopez
is a great fighter. He is a very skilled, talented fighter.
Period the return return new paragraph. You know, I'm not
gonna knock that there, but I feel that he also
doesn't take the sport that seriously. He takes this, you know,

(18:23):
training and fights it, but the sport as a whole
his I guess I could say maybe his responsibility is
one of the stars of the sport, you know, one
of the faces, one of the big names. Like that
means you gotta get your ass out there and get
in the ring with guys like there's no you're there's
no other things that you do as a boxer, like
you do social media and stuff like that to promote
your fights. Right when we talk about another fighter that

(18:45):
a little later that got into the weeds doing all
kinds of other crazy shit, but that's later, this this
in this episode. But yeah, I agree, I'm kidding. I'll
get a little test. Sometimes he's funny. I'm not gonna lie.
Sometimes tail Field makes me laugh, and sometimes I'm like, bro,
shut your goddamn out, shut your mouth to get in
the ring. I just I just hate that the you know,

(19:08):
the dilly dell and get back and forth. Pick a date.
You know, I'm not saying that, you know, coming to
an agreement to a country, because he's another thing I
don't know anything about when it comes to being a
pro fighter, But I it's easy enough. I feel like
they make it harder than that it needs to be.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
It's my ticket exactly, And I'll put it this way.
When it comes to contracts, majority of the frameworkers already
read upon. We're arguing over little things that don't need
to be argued about this point, we want to see
the fight. November is next week. At that point, we
have about sixty ish days left in the year. Once
December tenth or thirteen comes around, the last two weeks

(19:48):
of the year, no one's shut her out in anyway,
So we got about six more weeks in this year,
and then once the first week of January comes, we're
on to a new year. So we need to figure
something out sooner than later. We don't need this drug.
Kids been going off for a whole year. Basically, this
whole tumming pools went off for this whole calendar year.
It's a waste of time. We need fights, we need

(20:08):
anticipation going to the next year. We need that as
a sport. It has to happen. But we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, that's a really good point. You know, it's gonna
be the end of the year like that, we're gonna
be talking, We're gonna be making Christmas plans like that.
So yeah, and this year, well, of course we'll do
in a sort of an end of year review. But
like I feel like this year had just a lot
of dilly delling back and forth about lots of fights.
Like Candella Crawford was kind of sucked the air out

(20:37):
of the room. But if you look back, I mean
it was always stop and start with this tale specifically,
you know, supposedly maybe Ryan blah blah blah, and man,
you know, I don't want to get down on the
sport because I love it so much. But that's kind
of why I've been doing a lot of you know,
checking out different places that have different fights. We talked
about over time boxing recently. You know, I just I

(21:00):
just want to see fights. I want to see talented
people get into the damn ring, and you know, it
kind of relying on you know, the the bigger names
to get off the damn couch and do their jobs.
So anyway, another thing that's a little bit uh maybe
frustrating and uh, you know, kind of disconcerting about the
boxing world. I'm gonna have a bit of a longer

(21:22):
conversation here about Dana White and his his role in
the boxing world. You know, we talked about at about
a little bit. Some things have been going on with
him trying to get into the boxing world, but his
way in the Saudi's way. So let's see, let's start here.
So Dana White has a company called Zoofo Boxing's the
UFFA that's owned by TKO Holdings. TKO also owns UFC

(21:46):
WW and it's backed by the Sadis. So big money,
big like the like. These are serious people. This is
serious money that you know is getting involved in boxing.
But apparently Dana White doesn't just want to jump in
throw his head into the ring. Pun intended his his

(22:07):
plan this this whole I guess which you'll enterprise. His
plan is to do it by changing the safeguards, legal safeguards,
federal safeguards in boxing, specifically under the Muhammad Ali Act
of two thousand. So this is kind to drive me
crazy because I've been reading a lot about this. There's
a lot of back and forth. You know, the Mohammad
le Act, it was created to protect the rights of boxers. Okay,

(22:31):
it was intended to reduce corruption. There's a lot of
things that it does, you know, get in some details,
but it's not perfect. Boxing has never been for Boxing
has basically been probably one of the most corrupt sports ever,
but it's something and some things, whether they're not enforceable,
they're good ideas. Right. Dana White and his you know cohorts,

(22:52):
they're very heavily involved in involved with with politics with
this administration specifically, they're there is a Muhammad Ali Revival
Act which actually tries to gut a lot of these
protections and I'm not very happy about it. There's a
lot of people in the sport not very happy about
it either. To want to get your take before we
get into Louise Jamison of where we stand right now

(23:13):
with this.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
So ironically, I've said often on our show that Floyd
made whether they're ruined boxing, well, he also helped boxing
a lot as well. Mean that fighters are able to
get paid their net, their their fair share, they're able
to make you know, they're able to you know, they're
able to make a profit on their skill set. Some

(23:36):
fighters are not paid more than they probably should have,
but hey, that's what the sport was due to Floyd.
Floyd drove the money up some Oflar, how Tiger Woods
drove up in golf and other athletes and other sports.
That being said, they're trying to ruin that now. They
are trying to tear all that down. Whenever you have
people from outside trying to come in, it's basically like
a private equity firm coming in and trying to take

(24:00):
over get involved. They have no concern for the sport
itself or the boxer itself. They're trying to maximize the
value of each and every fight and whatever happens to
the fighters, if happens. The issue with the UFC, the
reason why we don't know a lot of the stars
because I don't get paid that much. Dana White and
UFC takes a lot of the money. They control all
of the money. Boxing isn't like that. If they're trying

(24:22):
to get boxing to get like UFC, it will not work.
It will not work. That's not what we're here for
and it shouldn't be like that. However, we are trending
that way. Until boxers step up and speak out, I
don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I got some actual stats here for you to get
a reaction from you. In UFC. Specifically, the athletes usually
have about eighteen percent of the revenue share. Okay, boxers
can be as high as eighty percent.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Here's another thing. UFC fighters they cannot have personal sponsorship deals.
They're not allowed. Boxers can, of course they can. You know,
they can put whoever they want and they're on their
boxing trunks and you know, Canelo's out here doing I
saw Canelo doing a corocial for for that Lord of
the Rings TV show for Amazon and Spanish, like I guess,
like the promoted in Mexico or something, which is kind

(25:16):
of ridiculous but makes sense, you know, huge Mexican celebrity.
But yeah, I mean, like you said, it's top down
with UFC. Dana White is at the top of the
chain and most of the money goes there. Here's the thing.
You don't go into boxing and wanting to like impose
your own model. That's in a very different sport, completely

(25:37):
different ways it up here. MMA Mixed Martial arts is
the style of fighting. UFC is the promotional company. Like
people just say UFC because that's that's like, I think
it has ninety percent market share in MMA, right right,
because who the hell else I wouldn't even know any
other protia company for for mixed martial arts. I don't

(25:57):
know if you've ever heard of one. Yeah, so you
know they're the big game and they here's the thing.
I'll even go ahead and be be generous and say,
Daniel White, credit to you for you know, doing this
and setting up the UFC in your in your own
way to benefit you because you're the big guy. You're
the big man on campus. You can't do that shit

(26:17):
at boxing just because you know, you know, you're you're
friendly with whatever administration is currently in power at any
given time. You know what I'm saying, Like, you can't
do it because you're also had connections with the Saudi's
and you want to completely change these these regulations that
here's the thing, boxing is so corrupt the federal government
had to get involved in. Say, we're the fans and
we think this is fucked.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Up, right, right, right, right, Yeah, it's not a good idea,
though it's not there's other ways things can be done that,
ain't it?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Right?

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Do you know what a big, big reason for the
Ali Act was in the nineties, Jameson that we've talked
about before on the show.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Well, a lot of guys that they might took by
the promoters. A lot of guys were in the up
bro Unfortunately it was one of them, but Mike Tyson
had to take Don keying in the quart a couple
of times. You know, there's a lot of boxers that
have complained of foul play from the promoters and the
two Bangs promoter for Don King and Bob Aarrow. So
there you go.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, the one one major thing that I like. Here's
the thing. There's a lot of aspects of the l
E Act that I never knew about. One thing that
I always knew was that it keeps distance between the
promoter and the manager, right, can't be the same guy.
Because that was Don King's issue is that his nephew,
he was a promoter done his nephew was the manager
and they had to sign with both guys. So that

(27:37):
was that was That's how a lot of dudes are
getting their money taken.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
And also for those that are out there who ever
get a little bit of money, never have your manager
and the agent be repped by the same company. It
doesn't work out well, you know, or the the agent
and the finance company be on the same office that nah.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
No, yeah, so that's one very specific thing. And here's
the thing. People who are still try to get away
with that shit, you know, try to do shady deals
of just like you know, oh, I'm your manager, this promoter,
I'm not gonnact that he's just my buddy that I've
known for you know, since we were kids, or here's
my neighbor or whatever. You know, they try to skirt
it already. Even though the ELIAC is a good.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Idea, it's a very good idea, and we don't need
deregulation in terms of sports. We don't need that. We
need we need the rules to say, the rules. There's
no need to loosen them up, no need for change.
Let's yeah, I think we should keep things as they
are and go from there.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Agreed. And here's the problem. I don't think the issues
that the very real issues with the li A because
it's not perfect, is that you know, enforcing is difficult,
et cetera. The way to fix this issue is not
more deregulation, you know, it's to find better ways to
address those problems. I don't think anybody, anybody serious, anybody
who really cares about boxing, the sport, the safety of

(28:58):
the fighters, the welfare and them being taken take advantage of.
I don't think anybody really who really cares about that
has an issue with the provisions in the l E Act.
I think it is all it's the same bullshit that
we hear all the time from you know, the government
of well, this is going to help competition, this is
going to help innovation, this is going to help you know,

(29:18):
it's just helping to help me will make more more money.
Let's be let's call it what it is.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
So that's my biggest issue with it. There's no real
need for it. It's just likely to happen because we've
got the people with the money, with the right connections,
we have the ability to push this through. So now
that the the ALI Revival Act, which is the new
crappy one, it is not currently passed through through Congress.

(29:44):
It has to be past House Senate, be signed by
the President. Okay, that has not happened. I don't see
that happening probably this year with you know, we don't
have it. We don't even have a government right now
as of this recording. As if this show in October
at twenty twenty five, at the moment, we don't have one.
So but here's the thing. You know, there's plenty of time,
and it's I feel like it's just a matter of
time if more and more fighters don't speak out, more

(30:08):
people involved. Hell, there was a time in twenty sixteen
when a Mark way Mullen, I don't remember if he
was a senator. I don't remember. He's a senator or
a representative, but he's a former actual former MMA fighter.
He tried to apply the lact not just to boxing
the UFC, and UFC lost their goddamn minds, right. They
threw at Randy Couture, an MMA star was trying to

(30:32):
speak up against it. In UFC are like, we're we
don't want this guy involved in any of the talks
because they know that he's he's for the fighters, because
the former fighter himself. Right, So this is just this
is a shit show. I mean, they're trying to spin
this as like now, I will say, the way that
they're trying to package this is that it's good for
the fighters and give some freedom to choose, you know,

(30:54):
where and how they compete. They actually have I got
this here, a minimum pay of one hundred and fifty
dollars per round, which some states have less, some things
don't even have. So okay, like that's cool, and you
know that's that's a that's a good idea on paper.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, but it can't.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Come with all of these other you know, gutting of
the of the l EXL.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
But that doesn't help the guys we know. That only
helps the guys that fight in the small fights in
small towns. That doesn't help anyone fight that's fighting on
TV or fighting on stream. One fifty round doesn't know.
It doesn't help anything.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
And here's the thing. You can always just make that change.
You can always just make a you know, specific change
to the minimum pay per round. That's perfectly fine. There's
nothing that.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
You don't want a minimum pay around. Because what happened
is guys will the guy that's beating up the guys
just trying to hang around. Now you have fights that
are born, there should still be a flat fee. If
someone's giving you twenty grand for the fight, then that
show that show that sho cut. You get one hundred
grand for the fight, then that show cut. Once you
start having a minimum going around, tricky things get weird.

(32:02):
Now we start overanalyzed and things. We've been just fine
without that. We don't that we don't need it.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
That's fair, you know, I've I've never I've never had
an issue with minim wage period for anything. But I
can I can see your side of it. I think
also what we can, what people can do, is innovate.
We talked a few episodes ago about overtime sports. They
have things like knockout bonuses, and then they have knockout
bonuses for the first and the last round, so fights
start exciting and then end exciting.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
You know, I think you have knock out bonus in general,
just have that as a part of the pot. I
think that would meant for a lot more interesting fights.
But also, like, here's the thing too, If if you
knock somebody out within the first four rounds, your bonus
is higher. So let's say the bonus is twenty grand,
we knock somebody out the first four rounds, it's fifty grand,

(32:52):
you know what I mean. I think the old are
things where we can we can enhance excitement. But honestly, Louise,
you just want to see good fights. I think they
we want to see good fights that don't have any
bs to that. That's all I think that's all really want.
Whatever it takes to get there, we'll deal with. We
just don't want to know shanigans. I think that's the
biggest thing out of everything.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Sure, And like I said earlier, yeah, I love this
sport more than most things in the world. And I
don't believe that Dana White has the integrity of the
sport in mind. You know, you say what you will
about the Saudi's, you know, coming in with money and
you know, trying to uh getting into to a lot
of different thing sports and concerts and comedy shows to
kind of offset their human rights abuses. But what Turkeylo

(33:35):
Shake did is he was putting together big fights and
he was giving people, you know, putting people together. It
took a lot of extra money. I believe he did
say that Canela Crawford had a knockout bonus as well,
not that even though those dudes need the damn money,
especially you know, even after the actual payment they were
going to get from the fight. But things can be
done to make better this. This is not it, you know,

(33:58):
i't me give you some more. Get your thoughts on
another specific thing that this new act is trying to do.
So they're trying to create what's called UBOs unified boxing organizations,
so they're alternative from the sanctioning bodies, so they have
their own rankings, their own belt and there's not as
many regulations. Now we've all already talked about the sanctioning bodies,
the commissions. WOWBC, they have their issues. But is this

(34:23):
really like going to be a benefit to have a
completely separate, little linear, top down organization.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
No, no, it won't. Like the more people you have
in the kitchen, the worse it gets. We need a
boxing commissioner that oversees everything that get people on the
same page, or at least get some sort of organization.
Right now, every federation has its own rules. Everybody's kind
of flying by the seat of their pants. Everything is
a freestyle. I'm not a big fan of that. I

(34:50):
think that the sport deserves more organization. I think that
there's too much money involved for it to be this scatter. However,
some of the money might not be on up and up,
so maybe we're opening up a can of worms we
don't even open up. I don't know, but it feels
like boxing is a so unorganized and it the the
overall direction of it just no one knows because there's

(35:10):
no set plan, there's no set direction, So it just
feels like we're all just kind of waiting to see
what the next announcement. Instead of oh, okay, it's November,
we know this, this and that's happening. It's it's a
really worse spot right now.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, And if you go back to a couple episodes ago,
right before the Canelo Crawford fight, you know, we spoke
to legendary sports commentator Al Bernstein. He was talking about
how it's the way he described as how boxing is.
If you have the United States States without a federal
government with any rules, that's kind of how boxing is.

(35:44):
Everybody's kind of doing their own thing this and that.
But like, I think this would be worse because now
you're not just kind of trying to regulate it in
terms of you know, fighter protection, whatever fairness, et cetera.
You're just kind of like setting up one dude at
the top to do whatever the hell he wants with
no real like oversight and just make their own rules

(36:04):
and have the money flow however they want it. And
I think that's like that's part of the actual problem
that the problems that we have now in boxing, that's
more of that problem, just in a different way.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I think, Man, you don't want at the end of
the day, boxers for what they do to their bodies
and for what they do to put on a show.
Whenever they perform. They should be in control of where
the money goes, what goes on with the money, et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Right, And here's the thing. I we talked about Randy
Catuur being you know, a big, a big star in
MMA and UFC. You know, kind of broke out of that.
But for somebody who did did not follow UFC, Like
I learned who he was because he was in that
first Expendables movie as one of the dudes. It was
like they had a slice the loan and like adult
luneleriness and then Randy Catuur. I'm like, oh, I guess

(36:58):
he must be a big deal in UFC. But that's
like he None of these guys, like you said, are
able to go mainstream. The other guy I know is
uh Frands is the Ghano because he actually beat uh
Tyson Fury in a fight and got robbed by that decision.
Just justice for Frands is the goddamn but anyway, Yeah,

(37:20):
I mean this is uh sorry, I don't mean to
be kind of rambling, but there's just so many ins
and outs of this, uh you know, this attempt to
get this act that it's not going to be good.
We can we can say this, I can say this,
and in a more concise way, is that gutting the Muhammallik,
the the the Ali Revival Act would be bad for
the sport. Having Dana White take his UFC model and

(37:43):
apply it to boxing would be bad for the sport.
Now I know that there are a boxes out there
with who would love to have an opportunity. Dana what
is a name? He's uh we talked before how how
much we had like seven billion dollars for UFC on
Paramount plus they also tossed a few bucks to ZUFA Boxing,
so we will have fights on there as well. That's cool.

(38:03):
At the end of the day, credible credits due. Let's
have more fights available people to watch, more fights for
young fighters like the dudes I interviewed millions to you know,
get their names out there. I'm sure being told you're
going to sign with this guy who's the biggest deal
in the world in combat sports, and he's going to
get you on, you know, in a ring on on

(38:23):
a TV like that's exciting. I wouldn't fault anybody for
thinking that it's a good idea to sign the Data White.
Let's be very clear about that, right. But Yeah, one
of the final things I want to say on this
is see I got a quote here. Look Thomas co
host of the show Morning Combat. He said, what does
it say about a law's ability to prevent monopoly if

(38:46):
a monopoly from another industry won't enter the space until
they can get the rules helping to prevent the monopoly
over And that's what it is. I mean, you want
to get into boxing, data cool, join join the group here.
Don't say I'm gonna I have to do it my
way because that's the only way I'm gonna gonna invest
in the sport. I think that's to be honest, right,

(39:07):
what's your take on that? And whether how about this?
If Data Wait cannot get this act revoked or at
least cut it or whatever it is, can we expect
to still see him in the boxing world.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
He's gonna hang around because he deals with Turkey. Uh Turkey,
So he's gonna hang around. But he's gonna try every
which way to make money off the fight, and it's
only gonna be the big fights. It's not gonna be
the small ones. It's gonna be the big, big fights.
He ain't gonna be on the ones that are only
on his own only ain't gonna happen. He's not here
for that. He's not, so he's gonna be around. I

(39:43):
just don't think it's gonna get done. I think boxers
have been too satisfied in the ways that they've made
and they don't want to go away from that. I
don't think they want to go away from that. And
things are already weird now with how many times they
fight a year. So yeah, I don't see anything changing.
But yeah, I don't see Dana White being able to
bully himself in the boxing. I don't see it, okay.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Uh And yeah, you know, the a lot of the
people in boxing like the way it is, and Oscar
Deloye has spoken out against Dana White, but Oscar is
not fighting anymore. Like we're talking about young guys who
want to make a name for themselves and they, you know,
Dana White is is a known property. You know, I'm
more kind of worried about that is that you're kind
of taking the uh the guys who have a lot

(40:27):
of a lot of going for them, get them into
the system where they're signing these contracts that are going
to screw them over, not going to make the money
that they that they should be making. And we already
have a problem not just with people fighting as often
or not are infrequently, we also have a problem with
young guys trying to make a name for themselves and
getting out there. You know, we talked about how social

(40:49):
media is essential to I think it's essential as a
pair of boxing gloves for young guys these days because
there's so many names out there and it's hard to
break through. So are we going to have you know,
a bunch of Dana White uh uh boxers that are
like UFC guys that nobody's heard of, that the general
you know, public doesn't know by name. That sucks, don't

(41:12):
think so? No, I think that's the worry, and that's
what I really hope, you know. Just I have no
problem with Dana putting getting his mits into into professional
box That's not what I'm saying here, But to do
it with all of this baggage and all of the
Saudi money trying to do this specifically to this act.

(41:32):
I think that's beast for the sport and I really
think that they should not be passing UH through covers.
So that's my take. Anyway, any other thoughts on this
before we uh?

Speaker 4 (41:45):
Good?

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, that's uh. That's that's Luis's rant for the day.
All right, let's move on to uh. Speaking of people
fighters that have made their name in the mainstream that
are well known by most people, and even they don't
follow box. Let's get into many Pakiao. We are going
to talk about our recurring segment Pop Pugilism, in which

(42:08):
we discuss a movie or TV show about boxing. And
as always, this segment is sponsored by our friends at
the Bad Movies, Worse People podcast, and they actually sent
us another custom ad here from my buddy Jack See
what do you got for us?

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Jack Beck?

Speaker 5 (42:24):
A confession to the people. I've been on a Bad
Movies podcast too long. I have now started enjoy things
like Steal and Catwoman and have no time for things
like Superman from nineteen seventy eight, often not as a masterpiece.
And here I am looking forward to watching Daredevil someday,
maybe even god willing Electra, and I'd like to just

(42:45):
say sorry for my behavior. Thank you Bad Movies Worse
People dot Com.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Thanks Jack, Bad Movies Worse People dot Com. Check them
out wherever you get your podcast. So today we're talking
about a documentary from fourteen called Many about of course,
none other than Mini Paccio, one of the greatest fighters
of all time, my bad, one of the greatest fighters
of all time, Jamison, What did you think of this documentary.

(43:13):
Let's get some initial thoughts from you before we get
into I.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Forgot how big a starr he actually was, like watching
the whole thing. Obviously I knew he how big he was,
but he was an actual superstar in this country. And
it's very rare for a non American to be a
superstar in this country. It's very rare. It's not possible,
but it's very rare. And his prime, he was must
watch TV. He was loved by a lot of fans,

(43:38):
casual and fanatics. He was different. He was different, hell
of a prime, hell of a run. Yeah, and I
maybe go back. I remember Funk Morales a few times
in like the mid two thousands. It was like a big,
big fight, like a big, big deal. And I also

(43:59):
didn't realize that obviously he's Filipino. Whenever a boxer from
a country like that, the whole country gravitateds for that boxer.
And yeah, man pak Yaw was for the stoop star
he had in this country. He was much bigger overseas
as well, and he was good. But on the show
a lot of times it's interesting that people gravitated towards him.

(44:24):
Because Floyd would go the distance in his fights, pack
Yew would get people out of here quick. So you
think of how he fought Oscar basically got Oscar out
of here. Floyd didn't fought Riggy Hatton. He got rig
ated Riggy Hatton out of here quickly. Floyd didn't, you know,
so a lot around that time it was known why Hey,
pack Ow's the much easier watch per se, but it

(44:48):
was all all it was really good, really really really good.
H doc.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, I definitely like the PAQW. Mayweather eras like the
time that I can last you remember is when a
boxer kind of broke out of just being known by
boxing fans. You know, I feel like, because like everybody
knew who the hell both of these guys were right
and I feel like they knew it, even though even
if they have never seen a match. I think that's
kind of the last time that I don't know. I

(45:15):
don't know that a lot of people know Canelo if
they even if they've never seen a boxing match, A
lot of Mexican outside maybe outside of Mexicans. I don't
know what you think.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
People have heard his name for so long that they
know of him, but it's not the same superstar feel people.
Pacquiao felt like a superstar. Canl is one, but it
don't feel that way, if that makes sense, not in
the same way pak Yao was. Pak Yao was a

(45:43):
superstar and it felt that I mean, hell pa, a
Nike deal, all kinds of Yeah, he was. It was different.
It was way way different.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, and got to give credit to him. You know,
I'm I'm Mexican American, but you know that Manny Pacia
was the mexicane or one guy after another, you know,
he uh Mexican Mexican boxing star. I got knocked down,
knocked out, beaten by Manny. And And here's the thing,
Mexicans like the two. They still too did to watch
their favorites get you know, get pubbled fighting style.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
They love this fighting style. However, we know what happened.
We know what happened the one Mexican he could not
get by.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, but that's it took to the fourth fight because
I don't think it.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Did have a lot of questionable things that happened a
lot of questionable decisions and whatnot when you go back
and watch those fights, a lot of questionable things that's
in place, but neither here nor there.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, if I remember correctly, and they did mention in
the document But you know, my brain is Mushie's mushly
by the But I think he I think many won
all three fights, but definitely least one was a very
very controversial decision. Maybe the third one it was like
it was one of those like, hey, are we looking
at the same thing here? You know, you could say, well,

(46:58):
you know, maybe he should have won this run one
of that. I believe the vibe around number three was
Benny did not win that fight. That was a gift
to say.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
So quickly.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yes, yeah, and what's this documentary starts with the famous knockout,
which is wild, and it ends, it starts and ends
and book it's bookended by that fight. So it's also
hilarious that near the end this isn't a spoiler because
it's the man's life, but right at the very end,
you know, they they they close out the documentary with

(47:28):
the Marquez four fight and the you know, classic punch
that gets Manny on the chin plays and they play
some you know, some little footage here when he was younger,
that shot boom plays again, bra go to the Brah.
But I think like four times I got I'm sorry,
I was cackling. I was like, man, this is this
is Manny's documentary. Why are you ending with him getting

(47:50):
slept for like four times in a row. But that
was fun. But yeah, there's another crazy thing that it
didn't really again we're worldheads were washed, and you know,
you think back at all this time that we all
the things that we know and learn about boxing so far,
this documentary is from twenty fourteen and the Mayweather back

(48:13):
and forth. You know, is this fight going to happen?
The fights in the media, you know, the arguments in
the media, that's a part of it, But the fight
itself happened in twenty fifteen, so it's not a part
of this documentary. So it was wild to see this
because we just think back. I'm like, yeah, they fought
like around this time, you know where this was at.
But no, we're seeing a picture of what it was
like before that, and it ran me like that was

(48:35):
it took forever to make that fight. There was some
you know, back and forth about this, this is not
doing the drug test, it's cheating here, blah blah blah.
You you sit down and watch this in theaters at
the time, you still might not know if that fight
is happening. You know, I don't know exactly when it
was announced. So that was wild to me because it's
just the thing that we just know, like Mayweather, I'm
packing up fought and that's that, you know what I mean,

(48:56):
right right right.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
It's like it was so the first j m In
fight was a draw. So it was a draw, two
questionable decisions, and then the infamous knockout. So that's what
made it. That's what you got four. If you beat
God three times in earl, you're not getting fourth to one.
That's not happening. But the lot the middle too, were
so highly contested they had to fight again.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
That's a that's a really good point as well. Yeah,
I uh, it's wild that number. You never see so
and so, you know the fourth so and so over
and so and so in the fourth fight. Like it's
all trilogies. Everybody's trilogy is obsessed. I blame Lord of
the Rings, that blame Star Wars. Even with movies, everybody
has to make a trilogy. You can just make two
or four things. That's fine, right, I bought a box
seat with like seven Nightmare on Elm Streets, Like, don't

(49:42):
worry about a trilogy. But whatever. But that's that is.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Bradley did not win that fight, by the way, Timothy
Bradley did not beat him.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
I remember at due time. I remember in real time,
Timothy Bradley not win that fight.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yes, that's in here as well. That and they did
bring up the fact that Timothy Bradley won by decision.
I think, oh split decison, yeah, not unanimous, but still yeah. Yeah.
So you know, Manny is as great as he was,
you know, he was not. It's always it's never not
been a thing where somebody can look at a fight
and go robbery. You know, I don't know enough to say,

(50:16):
you know why it was or what happened or what's
going on behind the scenes, but it is just the
thing that that's always going to be the thing boxing. You know,
there was a remember when there was some hubbub that
we even talked about in the show. I don't know
if it was early this year, last year when they
were talking about AI judges because that was going to
fix boxing. Yeah, that's that's a terrible idea. Never use

(50:37):
AI judges. That's so stupid. But it feels like now
like what happened, Like people were like, wouldn't shut up
about ah Ai scoring AI judges. Maybe there's one fight
with that's actually going to be uh, have the AI
judges be like binding? And now no, just went out
the window. I guess everybody realized that people just wanted
AI for porn and that kind of went everything was

(51:00):
one out the window. Hey man, let's be real. That's
one of these guys talking about you know, they got
AI girlfriends now and they talk to the to the
robot like their their boyfriends or girlfriends. That's what it's
all about. It is very scary, yes, but at the
end of the day, I'd rather people use it for that,
which is what they really wanted, then to bring it
into all these other places like.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I mean with boxing, you need the human element in there.
You need someone to be able to dictate how a
fight is scored and judged. So yeah, we can. We
can't take that away.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah, But heading back to bringing back to Manufacure, one
another thing that I learned about him is just how
he had his fingers and all these other pies. I
guess he'd say he was a politician in the Philippines.
That I know about him, but I didn't know that
he attempted a singing career, that he was in terrible
action movies, I talk a lot about how fighters get

(51:53):
high on their own supply and they're trying to, you know,
do all this other stuff and they get a little
taste of fame. Because another thing they show is that
just how he grew up in like like poverty, Like
that man grew up hungry as a child. Like So
you become a superstar and make a lot of money,
you think, well, I can do absolutely anything, and when
you have enough money, there's not enough people around you

(52:14):
to tell you, no, don't do that.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
That's correct.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
So that was that was wild to me kind of
seeing all the other stuff we did apart from being
I knew boxing and politician and that's all I knew
that he was involved. But yeah, he's he was doing
like music videos like it was him, actual footage of
him in the recording studio trying to say, like I
can't sing for crap, and I can say many.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
You played trying to play basketball.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
That's right. They didn't bring in a movie, but I
remember this scene.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
That reason why, it's reason why, it's the reason why
they didn't bring that up.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Okay, So.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
That's why.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, So I don't follow basketball, you're the box of
basketball fan. Then I need to know how far did
this get? Like what what.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Actually started his own league out there okay, or his
own team in the league whatever, But yeah, he physically
participated in basketball professional league out there in Philippines. Okay,
And like you said, since he was a powerful Norman'll
say nothing.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
And so did that like did he just fizzle out?
Did he actually like.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Tried yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Obviously he probably lost a ship out of money on it.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
And then just yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
No, I completely forgot about that. But I didn't know
that that he I just didn't know what it looked like.
Or you know, yeah, I mean the man for all
of his faults and for all of his uh mismanaging
his career and money. You know, like I said, it
was a super star. It was. It's amazing just seeing
footage of the people in the Philippines and when he fought.

(53:42):
Like another thing I knew was that like that whole
place stopped, Like the Philippines just shut down during a
Manu Pacio fight. Yeah, it was really cool seeing like
footage of people watching the fights. You know, there's conflict
there with like separatists and the military, blah blah blah.
Like there they said there is a cease fire during
Manny Pachil fights. People are not shooting, right, So just amazing.

(54:05):
I want to ask you this because my man has
been you know, famous for I guess a couple of decades.
You know, he's coming. He came back recently in the
news and you know, the goal is to get as
many young fans into boxing. I don't know, there's probably
a lot of people that know Manny's name, maybe reputation,
but if they've never actually saw some fight, maybe they
heard that this old man is back this year to

(54:26):
the body of fight. Do you think this documentary gives
a good picture for somebody that does not know this
man is just getting into boxing.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Oh absolutely no, I think it does a very good
job of that. I think it broke down everything the
way it needed to be. It's something that if you
showed a non fight fan, if you showed them, that'd
be very interesting. And they do more research on him.
That's how good it was. It's just it lacks some
context though. I wish it had a couple other parties
to kind of dissect a little bit of some things

(54:55):
that happened. But most part it did pretty well.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
I agree. Did There was a jump scare in here
when Marky Mark was one of the interviewees, like, I
know he's a boxing fan and him and Jeremy Piven,
I was like, wow, again.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
That's how popular man he was in mid two thousands.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
That's fair. I mean, I here's the thing. I I
kind of get why they did it. They got Markey
Mark and Jeremy Piven, one racist and one sex best allegedly,
But yeah, we don't need that. We don't need them
in this. We need more.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
You got to remember he wasn't Anti Mayweather. He was
the guy, so you didn't like Floyd. You like Pack.
So if you're not a Floyd Mayweather fan, you were
a Pack fan and then you got more exciting fights
and you know, more knockouts and blah blah blah. So
you know, gravitating towards Pack, you out for various reasons.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Okay, so what's and what's the reason for that? You
know again, I just I love fights. I love watching
the reason why I okay, that's fair. We can we
can make it a little explicit in say of people
don't want to follow black fighter. That's fine. Yeah, uh,
I was wondering if there was more to it than that.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
I guess you know, you know what it is.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I get a razor, is something that works.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
That's when Floyd went from pre boy Floyd to money
to money Mayweather. And when that change happened, that pissed
off a lot of white people or a lot of
people in general, but especially a lot white people. They
didn't like that. Everything he talked about was money, Mohney,
he had, how much money was getting that That turned
a lot of people off, and they went toward Pakiao,
who was getting taking advantage of by Bob Aaron all

(56:29):
those years. So yeah, but many.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Wasn't white either, So like, what what was the reason?
I guess white? The reason you hold black people so much?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
You know, the reason a black guy that's dominant and
bragging about how dominant is while making the most money
athletes can make it a year every year for like
a five year stretch. Yeah, yeah, people are gonna feel
some kind of way that's fair.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, you know, And I'm not arguing the point obviously,
Like I know that there's a lot of racism, initiative
race in the sport and an infend that's a lot
of what this Why were the Mixed Company podcast? I
was just wondering if there was just other aspects to
it that maybe I missed out on. Okay, Alkham's razors.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best one, gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 5 (57:15):
No?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I mean, hey, look these both both these guys are
are amazing fighters, and both you know, diserre respect whatever.
And again, whatever Floyd talked about or did outside the ring,
I never gave a shit, Like I never that just
never really like entered into my mindset. I was like,
before that bell rings, nothing matters to me. That's the
kind of fight fan I've always been honestly, And that's what, Uh,

(57:37):
that's part of why I love doing the show, is
just learning so much about the culture around it, you know,
the the audience reaction around it. But yeah, it was
kind of wild. Like, I Floyd comes up in the less,
I kin don't know twenty minutes of this, he just
pops up and I was like, oh, dam, it's like
a special guest star in this thing. Like because again,
you know, this was before that fight. I didn't realize

(57:58):
that it was going to be. Uh, they're going to
bring it into They're gonna factor it into this documentary.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
They weren't tied to each other for basically a decade,
from the mid two thousands to when they fought, and
even beyond, they were tied to each other. I would
say from seven to fifteen. You couldn't hear wowing out
the other's name being mentioned.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, and you mentioned before that that fight was ten
years ago, now that it was late then, so you know,
Brian Pachez was twenty.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Years And the weirdest, the weirdest thing is this, they
both fought the same guys. Both both fought Bosley, both
fight Codo. If I'm not mistaken, both fought Hattan, so
it's like, yeah, that's why it was. The ring around
the Rosie thing was so weird because they all end
up fighting the same guys as some random wort one

(58:50):
way or another.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
So yeah, yeah, I guess that was it was inevitable
kas Yeah, yeah, they did be my kids.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember Floyd's came back from retirement
to fight Marquez and pitched the shutout. That's how good
he was in that fight.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
So yeah, yep, I do remember that. So yeah, yeah,
I don't know. You know, we're uh, this era of
boxing is very fascinating. It's amazing. You know, you got
two big superstars, two faces of the sport again, two
people that completely transcended just boxing, like it wasn't just
sports fans, and it doesn't. You're right, it doesn't feel

(59:29):
the same today, And I gotta wonder, like, who are
we going to ever see that again? You know, somebody
that just.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
There's no one the possibility because star can be born
every day, any day, but we whoever that person is,
they're not currently boxing, if that makes sense. That person
is not yet established in the sport. I don't think
you have a current guy become the guy like that.
It had to be somebody coming out of nowhere becoming
a guy carrying that on and going from there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
That's fair.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
I think Budd was ten years younger. If Bud was
twenty thirty eight, toy different discussion. If Earl Spence didn't,
you know, have alcohol and driving issues, maybe we have
a different conversation. But yeah, nah no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yeah, that's that's very that's very fairy thing to say.
I guess I'll end off on something that's completely ridiculous
in a while that you know, we're we're about thirty nine,
and if we if we had seen we lived through
this era, and you know, this documentary could be a
way to introduce if we had our children, our own
children to this, we're old enough to get into boxing

(01:00:39):
and learn about this, because I mean, I don't know
I'm old enough to have an eighteen year old if
I really, I don't have.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
I have friends that have kids going to college or
the same age. So you do the math.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I'm thirty nine, I'm just
the kids though, Why would I have another kid myself?

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Maybe eighteen if you got a kid, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
That's well. So anyway, So for those of you all
that are watched like Being Jamison, you know this is
you want to introduce your kids to Manypacao. This documentary
from twenty fourteen, and we should mention directed by Ryan
Moore and Leon Gast and Leon Guest has been on
the show before because he directed the When We Were
Kings documentary about Muhammed Ali that we've talked about on
the show. Also an amazing, amazing the documentary that's available

(01:01:25):
in the Criterion collection. But yeah, this this one, this
many one available for free on tub with ads so
you don't have to pay for it. And it's definitely
recommend if you're interested in an era of boxing that's
just about this ner boxing that might come again someday
but definitely is not today. In the last let's say
like ten years, this era of boxing, it's there's been

(01:01:48):
nothing like it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Uh So on the show we rate any films that
we talked about at a four gloves Jamison, how would
you rate this document.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
That's a four by the film itself, So it was
done well, it was playing well. Uh it would age
will also some when I was done ten plus years ago.
I'll go to full four just by all the things
that took place. It fit the if, fit the need
for what it was. If that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Yep, No, absolutely, there'sn't there. Actually I realized after I
picked this one, there's another documentary. I think it's called
Manipety Unstop Before. I'm just gonna watch it for fun,
just to see. I mean the sure, there's probably a
lot of stuff that's gonna be repeated, but yeah, it's
just it makes me, uh, just makes you want to
learn even more about this guy that you know, we
all know a lot about. So I'm gonna go I'm

(01:02:35):
gonna go three point seventy five because I cannot get
over the Markie Mark jump jump scare in this movie
and the Jeremy Piven h jump scare with like fake
hair that because we know that man was bald until
he figured that out upstairs with the with the with
the hair plugins. But so three point seven to five,
but very good documentary, just fast forward thing, Markey Marcus talking,

(01:02:57):
You'll be fine, all right, Jamison bricking. People find you
on so.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Media at Twitter, on at V Jamison Excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
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(01:03:25):
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(01:03:47):
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