The Breakdown of Dungeon & Dragons (2)

This week hosts Scott Martin & Christopher Spicer dive deep into the 2023 fantasy adventure, 'Dungeon & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves'. We look at the major aspects of the picture and analayze why it wasn't a bigger hit. We also look at the lasting impact of the tabletop game and the legacy of the franchise. Scott also reveals the three movies that Christopher must watch and review for losing the Summer Box Office Challenge.

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
They're coping to get you, Barbara. They're coming for you, Paul.
That comes one of them. Now, Hello, and welcome to this week's
episode of the Movie Breakdown. Thisweek, we're breaking down the twenty twenty

(00:35):
three action comedy adventure film Dungeons andDragons Honor Amongst Thieves. Yes, we're
gonna be going deep into this film. This is easily one of the most
accessible films from the Dungeons and Dragonsfranchise. I can say that having seen
two of the other ones and stillstill having nightmares. I'm Scott Martin and

(01:00):
i am Christopher Spicer, and thisindeed is the Movie Breakdown, and we
indeed are doing Dungeons and Dragons Honoramong Thieves, and we are brought to
you, as always from the wonderfulfolks at Spreaker Prime. Spreaker is a
podcasting company owned by Our Heart Mediaand they have a Spreaker Prime podcast Those

(01:26):
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(01:49):
our pop culture site beyond the Balcony, so you can go there and check
out fresh writings. Go to spreakerto listen to a whole bunch of podcasts,
and you're just set and this episodehere, just set if you want
to hear about Dungeons and Dragons.And I only learned today, Scott that

(02:10):
there was sequels to the first Dungeonsin Dragons movies. So I learned today
that there was a third sequel tothe original Dungeons and Dragons film. I
had seen the sequel not even reallya good movie to get a lot of
laughs out of, as the firstone was. The first one had an

(02:32):
entertainment value of just being a trainwreck. The second film is mostly just
boring, although it does have agreat what are you doing? We can't
kill them, we need answers,and then grab the guy and say we're
gonna kill you if you don't giveus answers. At one point, someone

(02:52):
throws a dodge ram magic signal symbolat somebody. Now, my big question
though about the sequels is it's notthe same actors, right, No.
No, the between the first andthe second one, the tying the connection

(03:13):
between them is is Courtney Solomon,who directed the first film. He produced
the second film. As far asI know, he had nothing to do
with the third film, and whichwas straight to video like the second one
was. I saw the first filmin theaters. But we are going all
in on the latest Dungets Dragon's movies. Dudget Dragons are among thieves coming to

(03:39):
us through Paramount. There are somebattles back and forth I who would be
the one that would get to distributeit, but they eventually got the rights
and it came out this year andjust awarding, especially because it's a newer
movie. We are dedicating the wholeepisode to Dudget Dragons, which means there

(04:00):
is going to be spoilers here.We're going to analyze the whole thing,
and so if you haven't seen ityet, then just be warned. We'll
try to do a brief one rightnow, right here at the beginning,
sort of give you our thoughts,and then from there that we'll delve in
with spoilers and all this Dungeons andDragon's movie. I think it's interesting because

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obviously with like Games of Throne andsome other things in recent years, there
has been a rise in fantasy.But the directors the ones that eventually were
the directors because this is a thisis an idea that's been flown around for
about a decade where it went throughdifferent studios, different screenwriters, different directors

(04:45):
attached and stuff. But by thetime that John Francis Daily and Jonathan Goldstein
came in and these are the onesthat gave us Game Night. They wrote
the scripts to some of the SpiderMan movies, they largely kind of have
ties to comedy. They made itpretty clear early on that their idea was
to be sort of less kind ofa fantasy movie, less one delving really

(05:11):
deep into the lore, like stilltrying to make a movie that would appeal
to dungget dragon fans, but theywanted to mainstream this sucker. They wanted
to kind of bring in casual audiences, and so rather than going deep in
sort of the lingo and the worldof dungeons and dragons, they were making
a heist picture. And it's prettyclear on that they were making sort of
a comedy action movie. And sowhen you sort of get the ideas of

(05:38):
fantasy. This picture, I thinka lot of ways was purposely. It
still has a fancy elements. Imean there's dragons, and there's haflings,
and there's dwarves, and there's there'seven a bird creature. Like there's a
whole bunch of weird things in here. There is fancy, there is magic.
I mean it leans heavy on onsort of magic users. You got

(05:59):
your mages and your sorcerers and yourelves and stuff. But it's pretty clear
that this picture is a bit moreabout sort of the heist, and it
feels a bit more sort of beinga comedy action than maybe what people would
traditionally tie in to sort of yourtypical fantasy picture. That's one of the
big things that kind of stood outwith me, and I think one of

(06:21):
the things where the genius comes withthe casting here when you get someone like
Chris Pine. Because Chris Pine,obviously he's established where I mean, he's
been a Jack Ryan and he's beenin the Star Trek movies and so he's
as Kirk and so he's respected assort of an action guy. But he's

(06:42):
also done a lot of comedies andI think he is someone that can mesh
really well with being a believable actionstar while also being very comedic, and
that's kind of what you wanted inthis lead role. Someone who's kind of
rogueish. I mean, he's athief. He's out here stealing something,
but he's also got a heart ofgold because in this picture he's on the

(07:04):
mission to steal something too. Hewants to get what he believes is a
magical element that's going to resurrect awife that he's lost, and so there
is real kind of steaks there.There is something of value. This is
a guy who's trying to reconnect withhis wife that he's lost, and he
feels that like his daughter fact thatlike she's not getting the life she deserves.

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He's being robbed of having a momso and being a good father,
especially since he feels he's made somemistakes that sort of being that bard who's
also a thief. And then,in perfect Dungeons and Dragons fashion, he
puts a team together. It's yourcampaign, it's it's your party that is
off the classic Dungeons and Dragons.Unfortunately, though, one of the party

(07:48):
members is a Hugh Grant, andso you know right away that he's gonna
betray them, and he's got aevil sorcerer on his side, and so
he gets he gets backstabbed, hegets time frozen, and then eventually has
to try to get his daughter back, who's now essentially been fed lies by
the Hugh Grant character. And sothen they have another campaign, which is

(08:11):
the actual movie, sort of gettingthe elements they need to stop the evil
Sorcerer, to stop Hugh Grant,to win back his daughter, to get
the magic element that's been stolen fromhim that would bring back his wife,
and that's kind of the mission,and they go across the lands and stuff,
and for someone who knows a littlebit, dungeon and dragons, they
actually referenced things they never winter Boulder'sGate. Those are real worlds and dungeons

(08:35):
at dragons, And this is basedoff one of the more popular campaigns of
the Forgotten Realm. That's sort ofthe lands in here, and some of
the creatures in here are based offsort that set of campaigns and games and
such, and so that's sort ofthe movie here is going on that adventure,

(08:56):
and it does have that sense ofadventure. One of the things where
the kind stood up with me though, is that it doesn't quite have that
sweeping element. It does feel abit more, yeah, like a heist
picture or comedy picture. I thinkthat sometimes that sort of takes away the
grand scope here, and its strengthsare probably more of the buddy elements,

(09:18):
because you've got something like a ChrisPine and a Michelle Rodriguez who kind of
get along really well and they playoff each other, and I think they've
got fun elements there. And thenyou have things like Justice Smith, who's
the sorcerer, who's a bit awsoof a thief, and so you've got
these fun, colorful characters and playingoff each other. You also have the

(09:39):
shape shifting druid in Sophie Lillis,who is great in it as a Doric,
playing off of Justin Smith as sortof that will they won't they kind
of romance type thing, and soI think the strengths of the picture sort
of come from the camoderie and thenplay off each other those elements that Obviously,

(10:01):
Hugh Grant is a lot of funas a villain, and so I
think the performance elements are there andthe energies there. I just maybe at
times don't think that all the specialeffects or the big action sequences maybe feel
as sweeping as they could be,But like I said, the focuses of

(10:22):
sort of the characters and the humorand their chemistry definitely sort of makes the
movie work for me. And sothere is this kind of element of maybe
it's not quite the fantasy picture thatyou would want, but it's kind of
like a heist action comedy set ina fantasy world. For me, this
hit all my sweet spots. Ittickled me pink, and I didn't mind

(10:46):
that it wasn't as sweeping. Ikind of like that it's more of a
quest based and I sort of interpretedthat as sort of like, now,
I never played Dungeons and Dragons.Role playing games are my absolute weakness as
far when it comes to video games, and I liked that quest element.
We gotta find this person, We'vegotta do this, we gotta do this,

(11:07):
we gotta do this, sort oftaking them off the boxes. The
comedy and action elements. I thinkwe're done well enough that I quite liked
the package it came in. Andas like a Heights movie set in a
fancy world, I mean it's fun, Like I like the mix of the
practical effects. With the special effects, I mean, they definitely did some

(11:28):
practical with some of the characters andstuff, and I like sort of those
elements of the fun characters that theyhave it here, and I'm always a
big fan of different creatures and stuff. I think that always works. I
did think though, that some ofthe big scale action pieces didn't maybe come

(11:48):
off as grand as they should be, because sometimes of like a joke,
if there's a part of me likeI would have loved just our outright intimidating
dragon, and we don't necessarily reallyget that. You get an overweight dragon,
and then you get a dragon thatcame from a statue, and so
there's small littlements of like that,and I think sometimes some of the special

(12:09):
effects felt a little bit shaky.But I'm gonna put less of the blame
of that on the special effects artistsand just the unfortunate conditions of the industry
where every special effect artists is ona time crunch. Now, every special
effect artists has so many movies nowthat need special effects that they're overworked,

(12:33):
and I think I saw that bit, So I'm left blaming that on any
of the actual artists here and justsaying that's where our industry is at now.
Unfortunately. Yeah, and I cansee, well with this movie,
well, it's got that one hundredand fifty million dollars budget, and I
definitely think that maybe when you're doinga movie dungeons and Dragons, that's shooting

(12:54):
a bit high. I completely agreewith you about the special effects. Sometimes
it looks great and looks fine,and other times you can definitely tell that,
yeah, we're in a we're ina special effect crunch. The sorry,
the reason why I brought up thebudget is because typically for one hundred

(13:15):
and fifty million dollars, normally youwould have pretty good or should have pretty
good special effects. But yeah,like you said, it's sort of a
sign of the state of things,and I don't want to sort of feel
that I'm completely ragged in the moviehere. I do think there is some
great special effects. I did thinkso of the second dragon looked really cool.

(13:37):
Some of the magic stuff that theJustice Smith guy conjures looks really good,
and there's some fun set designs andthe castles look good. And I
like a lot of the dungeons.There's just some there's just some parts of
the picture of the kind of jarredwhere something it's like, Okay, this
looks immersive, this looks like anactual world, and the other times it

(13:58):
did look a bit video gaming,or some of the creatures that they designed
looked a little bit more cartoony,And it was just jarring because that's not
how it looked at other scenes.It was almost like a Stephen Summer's effect
where you have just brilliant special effectsin one sequence and then not in the
next. It like I've seen soI've seen this movie multiple times. Sometimes

(14:24):
movies with bad special effects really stickin my crom more so on multiple viewings.
But on this and I shouldn't saybad special effects, just not up
to the standards of other aspects ofthe film. But it didn't. It
didn't rub me the wrong way onthe repeat viewings. Yeah, I think
I'm using the wrong word. Ishouldn't necessarily say bad special effects. I

(14:48):
just think maybe better as jarring.Just sometimes it doesn't fit with how it
looked in other scenes. It wasjust it was sort of another movie.
I think every special effect in thismovie is better than sort of a scorpion
king or something, or like Mummytoo, like it's above those for sure,
or like, I'm not comparing thisto Van Helsing or something like that

(15:09):
with a mutated Shrek, But whatI'm saying is that there's just sometimes where
it didn't quite fit the same kindof immersion that I was expecting from previous
scenes. And I think it abigger thing, but I felt sometimes some
of the action sequences, some ofthe action geography just seemed a little off

(15:33):
for me. There's times where Iwasn't quite where they're trying to run away
from some creatures. I didn't feelthat maybe it was as well established of
where people were, where certain creatureswere, where certain things where I didn't
follow some of the sequences I knewdo need to touch on the chubby dragon.
I actually really really really loved becausethe build up to the dragon was

(15:58):
something pretty neat. You know,you think this evil, horrible things coming
again. I mean, the dragondid want to have a few snacks.
But when it turned out that themost threatening the dragon would get was when
it was just rolling downhill towards them, I I really got a giggle out
of that. I'm not gonna lie. It didn't take me out of the

(16:19):
moment I was. I was ahuge fan of the chubby Dragon. I
would not say it took me outof the moment. I think the chubby
dragon is very charming and it isshocking, and he's still threatening. And
my son got a great giggle outof the chubby dragon and still saw him

(16:40):
as something that was fearsome. Imean, ever enjoyed the creature because it
was something different. It was itwas not something you're expected, and so
I thought that that was done reallywell. And I think a lot of
like Hugh Hugh Grant going over thetop. That's another thing that I think
is quite fun. When they grabbedthe sort of person the bird to try

(17:03):
to escape from their hearing, especiallywhen they actually were pardoned. I mean
that was fun. I think alot of the jokes do work. I
guess the big thing with me isI do think this movie suffers a bit
from the Marvel effect, where Ithink there's times where I don't know this

(17:25):
movie needed to be a full oncomedy, like they did avoid it being
a parody, which I think isgood and that's not what they're going for.
But I just think that some ofthe dragon things would have hit even
stronger if there weren't so many jokes. See I should. I'll say it
right now. I gave this onefour stars. I watched it, then
I watched it again with my wifeshe loved it, and then I watched

(17:48):
it for the podcast. I alreadymentioned on the show. I do want
to mention it again that I thinkthe acting here, for the tone that
they decided to do, works reallywell. With Chris find as sort of
this humorous but also this character thatdefinitely has a story arc. I think
Michelle Rodriguez works kind of really well, sort of this barbarian that also has
a heart of gold, and sortof how they subtly kind of build that

(18:11):
relationship and sort of the chemistry theyhave. I've enjoyed Justice Smith before.
I think this is one of herhis better performances, because again, he
sort of has an art source,really doesn't believe himself, but slowly grows.
I've always been a big fan ofSophie Lillis, and I think again
they have a nice subtle kind ofit's not really a romance. It's sort

(18:32):
of him trying to court her andshe's not interested. But I think they
play off well. And Hugh Grantalways works well, sort of and over
the top villain and he's not necessarilythe one that was supposed to take seriously
either. And I do have tomention that again where I find it,
there was and sometimes too much humor. I did enjoy quite a bit.

(18:53):
The Paladin sort of takes a Draxroute of taking everything literally. Yeah,
I really liked that. I thatI viewed this as a comedy primarily with
like action sequences in it, andso I definitely was more on I put
more weight on the comedy and wasjust sort of surprised, like, oh,

(19:14):
there's good action sequences. Chris Pineand Michelle Rodriguez, They've just got
this wonderful chemistry here. They arebasically like the characters that are specked out
in a video game where Michelle Rodriguez, you're playing the Barbarian, you're playing
the melee class. You're not puttingany points into intelligence. You're just going

(19:37):
full on vitality and strength. Shethrows out these lines every now and then
that are just like when she wantsthey need to get across a chasm with
Lavin in it, She's going totie a rope to her axe and throw
her axe at the rocks so itsticks to it. On the other side,
all I can picture is just thestat sheet for her character and you

(20:00):
know, zero intelligence, or whenthey're trying to escape execution and got their
hands tied together, she's beating upeveryone in sight and Edgarton played by Chris
Pine, is spending the whole timejust trying to get his hands free while
cheering and saying, oh yeah,we got him now, and all I

(20:22):
can see is his statuet with everythinginto chrisma and nothing into strength. So
for me, I loved these charactersthat were just like really pigeonholed the way
they would be in. Like Isaid, I never played Dungeons and Dragons
the game, but role playing gamevideo games characters clearly having sort of their

(20:42):
stats and their strengths and how theyhave to work together to solve different problems.
There is a definite idea that eventhough I think this movie was being
crafted to to be for a broader, more casual audience and to sort of
try not tess they focused too muchon the dungeon dragon elements, there is

(21:03):
those aspects in there. There isthat idea of sort of working as a
party and definitely working as sort ofstats and how each one would try a
different thing than a Dungeons and Dragonschallenge? How would they overcome this issue
in each of trying to use theirstrengths. There is a clear idea that
these the directors here were playing towardsaffection of Dungeons and Dragons, Like it

(21:26):
was definitely using elements of what makesDudgeons and Dragon's fun. Yeah, And
I think that's what they really reallylanded with. Well here is is how
they played around with that, becausethis is a very accessible film, sort
of the one so one of thereasons why maybe I wasn't connecting as much

(21:51):
to sort of the humor as youit's just the idea that I feel that
is sort of where the blockbust theirscene is right now. It seems like
the mcuization of things, Like Ifelt like they tried almost like MCU Dungeons
of Dragons here, and it doeswork. I'm recommending it. I had
a lot of fun. This isa movie with fun energy, and obviously

(22:15):
it's done with a lot of affection, and you've got these actors are clearly
throwing themselves into this and it isa fun adventure for sure. But I
think we're just at this spot nowwhere every big blockbuster seems like we gotta
do the MCU, we gotta dohumor, and I think sometimes that takes

(22:36):
away the dramatic elements and it takesaway the stakes. And in regards to
this movie, I think they handleit fairly well. I do think that
Pine brings in a lot of emotionand this idea want to try to reconnect
with his daughter, and there issome emotional elements here and such, but
I think there's just an aspect ofone of the things that made start top

(22:56):
Gun Maverick an avatar way of thewater refreshing. Those are pictures that are
so earnest and so sincere, andthey don't have to undercut things with jokes.
Yeah, I still felt all theemotions. I feel like I needed
to, because at the end there'ssomething pretty predictable that's going to happen,

(23:18):
a choice that the character has gotto make that felt predictable, and yet
it's still sort of hit me whenspoilers were for far enough in here to
be comfortable with spoiler territory where theyhave this tablet of reawakening which will raise
someone from the dead, and insteadof using it on his dead wife,

(23:41):
Chris Pine decides to use it onhis friend Holga, which I mean it's
it's telegraphed. For me, it'sstill worked. When that happens, I'm
still kind of like, oh that'ssweet. Yeah, definitely, it definitely
works. I'm not going to tryto counter that at all. It worked

(24:03):
for me. I felt the emotionsand there was almost onions in the room
watching that scene. No, it'swell done, especially when rape before she
dies, she does that thing oflike, you know, take care of
our take care of our girl,will you, and that idea that what
he's been longing for throughout this picture, and he even says that earlier is

(24:26):
a wife and forgetting that what hisdaughter needed was a mother, and she's
had a mother all along. That'swhat this character has been the whole movie
is the mother that hit his daughterneeded. His daughter was never robbed of
a mother. And so I thinkthat is a really powerful moment. And
I think it hit me because againI always man being a parent, those

(24:49):
kind of things are they're easy.It's an easy way to get me.
And I did think that was made. It was done really well, and
they craft out really well. Andso that's why I am saying that sometimes
I feel there's often too many thesejokes in these kind of movies, but
the jokes largely are fun here,and the most powerful moment they did still

(25:11):
stick the lending. It still doeswork because they did take the time in
making those characters matter. My nippickwith the scene is one with this picture,
even those over two hours. Ithink there is some issues that they
made with what they decided to bein the picture, what they took out.
Because I do think Chloe Coleman,as great as she is as the

(25:36):
daughter, as much as I likeher, she was also in My Spy,
and I think she is very talented, I don't think there was enough
of her in here. I thinkshe comes off as more of a plot
thing than a character, and soI would have liked her character to get
flushed out a bit more, andI think it would have made the end
even more powerful. Also, whenI talked about action geography, the big

(25:59):
thing that really stood out with mewas that where they are battling the evil
Red Sorcerer, they're battling this evilbatty and it just seemed like Michelle Rodriguez
just walked off the screen at theend, and next thing, you know,
she stabbed. I guess part ofit was a shock of like,
oh, you know, the daggercame in. But it just was kind

(26:22):
of weirdly constructed for me. Ohnot just for you, not just for
you. Uh. Like I said, I've seen it three times, and
each time I'm saying, oh,yeah, she got stabbed. When when
did that happen? It just sortof off screen. She's never it's just
hey, now she's she's stabbed.Oh, like did she do this herself?

(26:47):
Yeah? No, It's still there'slike there's there's aspects of this movie
that I'm kind of throwing, youknow, sideways at. Like I love
how they get away from the dragon, they come up with a in the
plane starts to happen, and thencut to them in safety and again,

(27:07):
like I need to reiterate so manytimes because I'm kind of be the nagive
persone. I did enjoy this movieand it's a lot of fun. Everett
loved it. He's begging that there'sgoing to be a sequel. He really
hopes there will be, and Ikind of have to worry him about economics
have a reason for sequels. Butanother thing too, just again sort of
I think sometimes when it comes tosort of like a geography or the crafting

(27:33):
of a story. I get theidea that, Okay, they got to
get the helmet and they're trying tobreak into this secret, locked room,
and I get that they wanted todo a twist. But I'm left wondering
with what was the point of puttinga curse on that room if nothing was
in there? The well, stuffwas in there before the heist, so
I figured the curse was there toprotect stuff before Hugh Grant did his dastard

(27:57):
leaded as well as the curse onthe room was to ensure the rich people
that it was safe. I fuddlea little bit sort of flat for the
purpose for the twist, But Imean it's not a massive criticism. I
think again, it's just sometimes somuch amount of filmmaker and it's like,

(28:18):
oh, we do a twist tothe point of sometimes it takes away the
power of the story. And I'mdefinitely, with my four stars not gonna
argue for this being, you know, without without its flaws in the storytelling
it. And I think part ofpart of this might be the amount of
hands that went on it, becauseoriginally I just found this out today.

(28:41):
Originally, Courtney Solomon, who directedthe first film produced the second film,
was was attached to this when itwas just an idea stage right in the
early early days. I'm so gladhe didn't stay involved, because, holy
crap, Look I'm a Canadian andI'm to bash another Canadian. He's not

(29:02):
that great at his job. Saidit. Sorry, Courtney, It's just
you're not You're not terrific at whatyou do. So I think one area
that we obviously are kind of indisagreement of is you definitely believe that it
was the right call to kind ofget comedy directors here, and that you

(29:22):
do like the fact that this iskind of a comedy movie. Yeah,
comedy first action, second, alright, action more so third, I would
say, uh, and and Iliked it. And for me, the
action sequence, especially the ones withHolga with her beating up a room full
of guys, I always enjoyed that. I loved the scene that Druid after

(29:44):
Sophia Lillis's character character Doric, hadbeen spying and she had to make a
getaway. I loved the fun andthe energy in her fleeing. I love
that she ultimately turned into a deerand escaped by being a deer, because
that just that was a win forMichelle Rodriguez's character. And I do enjoy

(30:07):
all those little elements. I reallydo, and I think still feel a
littlest and that a whole sequence offorgett escape. I thought that was a
sign of good directing. That wasright there where he could see the game
night guys there. I thought thatwas really well done, of seeing all
her transformations and her escaping like that, there's some elements that look really good
and that one does work. Ithink again, part of it just comes

(30:32):
from the fact that I feel thisis where I've seen ten Poles going,
is that we just have to keepon putting in all this humor. And
it would have been kind of coolfor me of seeing kind of a sweeping
fantasy adventure because there isn't a lotof those. I just felt it sometimes
that this was going to go wastrying to go so much the other way
of like, well, we reallywant to sort of downplay the fancy elements

(30:55):
and really make it more of aOceans eleven but with fantasy creatures type things,
and in that because that's what theydecide to do. It's really well
done. It's just I would haveliked maybe a little bit more of a
lore and a little bit more oftrying to be that fancy picture while still
making it broad appealing. But forwhat it was trying to make, I

(31:19):
think they do do. They doa good job. I do think that
sometimes throughout the movie, like Isaid, I think there was a few
pacing issues. I think that thepicture is this weird thing. I I
felt like it didn't tell enough ofcertain characters being a little too long,
Like is that weird kind of issue. I think that's just sort of how

(31:41):
what scenes they decided to focus on. And I think sometimes just the comedy
slowed down the picture a little bit. But I also see where you're coming
from from liking it because you've gotguys who've done Game Night and this is
now Game and the Night to thenext level because there's even more action here.
Yeah, And I like for mesitting down to watch it. And

(32:02):
this comes down to expectations, AndI think this is why, this is
why it's impossible to have any kindof absolute consensus on anything, because everyone
sits down with their own experiences andtheir own expectations. My expectation was just
pure comedy, no action at allbecause of who directed it. And then

(32:22):
so when there was action, Iwas like, oh, there's competent action
in this. So it was anadd on. So but I see where
you're coming from. You were sortof expecting something or expecting and hoping for
something a little different. Now,neither you or I ever played Dungeons and
Dragons in high school. I believethat if I had been introduced to it,

(32:45):
I probably would have played it.I believe because it's up my alley.
It's up the geeky part of myalley. This is one of the
big baffling things that I have baitedback and forth with my wife for years
and years, because it's I'm awriter. I love fantasy. I've written

(33:09):
about fantasy. I am someone wholoves playing imagination games with my kids.
Will go in the pool, We'llpretend we're in this magical world. I'll
be a creature. I have nofear of that. I've always enjoyed Star
Wars. The simple fact is I'vealways been a big giant geek, and

(33:30):
I always sort of was like,why did it take me so long to
do something that is so custom madefor me? Like the idea where I
have an excuse to play. Iget to play fantasy. I get to
come up with a character and usemy imagination. I mean, Dungeons and
Dragon's role playing is so custom madefor my personality. But I didn't do

(33:52):
it at all in high school.There is a part of me the things
that came from that. There wastime sort of like Dungeons and Dragons and
that type of thing might be alittle bit geeky, which I don't understand
where I was coming from because Ijust had to own to the fact.
But you're a geek man. SoI was never the cool kid in high

(34:12):
school. That was not going tohurt my rap It would have just increased
it. But I also think it'ssort of what you mentioned too. It's
none of my people my crowd playedDungeons and Drakes. I knew people who
played Dungeons and Drakes, but Ididn't really get along with them, and
so I think that was also sortof the part is that the people that
I was friends with, I thinka lot of them doo Duchess of drake
its now, but for whatever reason, they didn't do it in high school.

(34:36):
So that was a part of it. But I also think a big
part of it too was the factthat I came from a Christian background.
I came from a conservative Christian background. My parents weren't necessarily as reactionary,
but there was a lot of peoplein my church because like I know,

(34:58):
a lot of people, a lotof my friends, they could even play
Heman Masters of the Universe, andmy mom had no problems with that.
I mean, I had hemane andThe Master of Universe magazines. As a
kid, I was in a Hemanclub. I recorded it, I had
all the toys, and so Iwas all into that type of stuff.
But I do think that a lotof my friends the idea was that Dungeons

(35:21):
and Dragons when it's rides, whenit became really popular, when it became
a hit sort of table top gamein the eighties. That was also during
the rise of a Satanic panic,which became a big thing, and a
lot of big, mainstream kind ofministers targeted. Dungeons and Dragons is one
of the evil things, and therewas these myths that certain kids were killed

(35:45):
because they went too far in theworld of Dungeons and Dragons. A lot
of that turned out to be rubbishand lies, but it left a mark.
And I do think there was apart of me, at some subconscious
level that felt, ooh, dungeonsand dragons might be dangerous, it may
not be be good. And soI think that was partly a thing that
also stopped to me was during itsrise. Anything that it almost becomes popular,

(36:09):
you then have to have Unfortunately,some conservative groups at targeted because Pokemon
then got targeted as evil like inthe nineties, and and just I was
growing up to the dungeons at dragon'sage, and I was told it was
dangerous. And so I think youadd sort of being raising during a period
when it became so popular that thengot targeted, along with probably just not

(36:30):
having the right friends. It tookme forty years to finally, you know,
realize this is totally my jam.It's funny what gets attacked because like
nice and what are you playing MurrioKart? Oh, what's the objective?
Well, I'm trying to win arace, but I'm not as good as
other people at driving, so I'mtrying to murder my opponents with turtle shells.

(36:52):
Oh, have fun, good luckwith the murdering. Yeah, but
I guess because it's in a cartoonpackage, and exactly that's the thing.
It's it's so random, what getswhat gets chosen as being wrong? Yeah,
Dungeons and Dragons, Well, Dungeonsof Dragons was a big, massive

(37:15):
hit in the nineteen eighties, Likethat's definitely sort of its peak, and
it was a major thing that evenhad a Saturday morning cartoon series. And
so it's a big, massive headedwho knows if they jumped on it quicker
and made the movie then if itwould have been more successful. And it
is a trusting, wondering sort ofwhat harmed this Dungeons of Dragons. I

(37:38):
think part of it is the factthat because it came off as an action
comedy, it may have alienated somepeople that would have liked Dungeons of Dragons
and some people that wanted a fantasymovie and realize it, oh, but
this is more of a comedy alienatessome people. There's a long standy belief
that you don't put a big,massive budget into a comedy pick. You've

(38:00):
got exceptions, like Ghostbusters, butthere was a belief for decades that a
big budget special effects comedy is goingto be a flop. And again I
realized there's exceptions, but that's beena rule, and I think there's a
reason for that. I think sometimesyou were alienating people that like that genre,
and so I think in some waysof focusing on the comedy, that

(38:22):
may have alienated some of the Dungeonsand Dragon's fans. And I also think
another thing that could have heard it, maybe not the same level, but
I think another they could have heardit is that during that period, so
essentially Dungeons and Dragons, it wasoriginally TSR that it was bought by Whichard

(38:45):
of the Coast, which was thenbought by Hasbro. And this year,
for the first time, Hasbro wasessentially stopping a lot of For years and
years, other companies were able todo their own campaigns and they're able to
do their own stuff within the Dudgeonsof Dragons universe, and it's gonna be
a wealth and this they started tryingto buckle down on that and stopping that.

(39:08):
And so at the beginning of theyear that was causing a lot of
uproar among Dudgeons and Dragons fans ofwhat Hasbro was trying to do, and
so there was a big campaign ofboycotting this movie among Dudgets of Dragon's fans,
So the very people you're trying toappeal to, they were pushing back
because of what Hasbro was doing thisyear. And I do think there's probably

(39:29):
some harm in that, is thatthe controversy that was going on within the
Dungeons of Dragon's community probably harmed themovie. I also, again, I
think the marketing was not strong withthis movie. I don't think they did
the best market campaign. It didn'tnecessarily exactly what the movie was, and

(39:50):
I do think the comedy elements probablyharmed it some. I was shocked when
I saw that its one hundred fiftymillion dollars film. I don't think it
ever should have been. And thebig thing is just that that comedies.
It's like, if you did onehundred and fifty million dollar horror movie,
what the heck are you thinking ifyou're doing a film with that budget.

(40:13):
I do agree that this should havebeen full on fantasy, that this should
have been a fantasy sweeping epic.If you want the Dungeons and Dragons fans,
it's got to be a fantasy sweepingepic. And this is where the
film I think failed in its performance, is that who was it really for

(40:35):
because I'm sort of that middle groundperson of I like the role playing aspect
of games. I never played Dungeonsand Dragons, so I wanted something that
was accessible. I wanted something thathad the same kind of comedy as Game
Night. I was shocked when thereis as much action as it was,
because I thought it was just gonnabe a comedy. But there's a reason

(40:55):
why there's not a lot of fantasycomedies out there. Here's the thing that
I think gets forgotten so much aboutthat studios forget a lot is you look
at something that is you look ata best selling book, this book was
super super popular, or you'll lookat Dudget Dragon as a game that is
it's still super super popular amongst certainpeople. Or you'll look at a video

(41:20):
game like Assassin's Creed super super popular, a big selling game. But here's
the thing that I think gets forgotten. I think studios think if I adapted
Dungeons and Dragons, all the peoplewho like Dungeons and Dragons will see that
movie, and then if we makeit casual, then you'll get the casual
fans. I think they get thisidea that every fan will come see it,

(41:40):
and then casual fans will get tosee it, and I think that
is such a missnomer. I thinkthat is such a mistake on the part
of studios because I think of somethinglike Stephen King. I love Stephen King
books, but not every adaption appealsto me. I look at that The
Boogieman and I wasn't like, oh, I gotta see that because that's spaced

(42:01):
out Steve King, because I readthe short story and I felt like,
how does that work as a movie? I got what I need of the
Boogeyman from the short story. Idon't need to see a movie version of
it. And I do think there'sa lot of people who don't necessarily want
movie versions of this thing they like. I like the video game, I
don't need to see a movie versionof it. I like Dungeons the Dragons,

(42:22):
but I don't want to see thiscomedy version of this thing that I
play every Friday night. And soit's this weird thing where I think sometimes
studios believe just if we make anadaption of it, that's going to then
get so many people because it's popular. Something being popular doesn't mean it's gonna
be a popular movie. Well,and this is the interesting thing because many

(42:43):
a video game has a forum fullof this. Do you make your product
for the casual player? Do youmake it accessible or do you honor the
people who put you there in thefirst place. And while I gave Dungeons
and Dragons honor amongst these a fourstar, it lay ended in an area
where it please people like me,people with curiosity that wanted it to be

(43:06):
accessible. The fact that it wasaccessible and comedy focus is gonna alienate the
hardcorees. It's gonna alienate the fans, And I do think that's one of
so because this is kind of thechallenge. So we're talking sort of about
how just picking something popular does notmean people are going to come out,
and you do have to have thatmix of making something casual but still appealing

(43:30):
to the fans. And I dothink one of the things that this movie
does right is one sort of thatplayfulness and that banter and that commoter materie
and the friendship that's happening between theparty. That's very much of like a
Night of Dungeons and Dragons. You'restaying around and you are joking and you
are trying to try out some crazythings. Well, I want my character

(43:52):
to try to do this or Iwant to see my character trying to do
this. And so there is thataspect that this movie I think nailed that.
I believe the directors must play itbecause I feel like they were adding
in probably things that they did intheir campaigns and having that fun. And
I do think another asthet is,like he said with a pallet coming in
and being all powered up and himjust coming up for a bit and leaving

(44:13):
that to be felt very Dungeons ofDrake because it felt like the expert guy,
like he said, he came,he played for one campaign, he
went home, he works a lot, he can't come all the time,
and so he came that time andyou kind of like it, but you
kind of don't because he's so muchbetter than the rest of you. Eddie
accomplishes everything. You're like, doeshe have to come because he's the one
who's going to beat the dragon andI want to beat the dragons. So

(44:37):
there is that aspect that I thinkthey captured really well. And that is
where I would say that Dungeons Dragonsis kind of is a successful adaptations.
It does feel a bit like whatit would be like seeing around the table
playing a game of Dungeons at Dragons, and even some of the characters represent
the type of player a person couldbe like, and so I do think

(44:58):
that is an area that they evenif it's maybe missing aspects of the lore
or the adventure, that they wouldwant. The crazy thing about Dungeons and
Dragons is now, so we don'thave a Dungeons of Dragons movie that you
could say was a hit, LikeI know, this picture did get a
really strong critical reception, and Ido think this is one of those movies

(45:21):
that's going to age really well andit's going to grow fans on streaming.
I think it's actually quite pop onstreaming right now. So I do think
this Dungeons and Dragons it's going tohave a decent legacy. And the studio
head is even said they'd be opento doing a sequel with a smaller budget.
They basically said, we'd have tocut the budget down, but we'd
be open to doing a sequel.So I do think this one is going

(45:44):
to have a more lasting impact.But my point is it's interesting that we
don't necessarily have a big box officehit Dungeons and Dragons movie, yet you
could say that Dungeons and Dragons isprobably one of the most influential forms of
entertainment for the fantasy genre and evenfor some other genres, Like I think

(46:08):
it's had this huge lasting impact onthe entertainment industry, despite maybe itself hasn't
had like that big hit movie,which I think is sort of really interesting,
and Dudgeon and Dragon so or DudgetDragons, I guess initially kind of

(46:28):
came from is there was this thingcalled wargaming that sort of existed in the
fifties where you would have people whowould reenact battles with miniatures, so there'd
be a set type of rules andhow you would win sort of these war
games. And then you'd have somethinglike diplomacy, which was sort of the

(46:49):
next level of kind of blending sortof board games with sort of the war
gaming. And there was there wasa guy named Dave Artison who his fa
favorite part about the war gaming wasthe storytelling component. He was more interested
in the story than the mechanics,and he sometimes felt that some of the

(47:10):
wargaming harmed kind of creativity because hehad to be a bit more structured.
And then also in the late nineteensixties there's a little book that's becoming a
big, massive cultural phenomenon called Lordof the Rings. As you know,
the hippies are getting into a Tolkiis a big thing, and so he's
getting into Tolkien and he's like,well, what if we do like wargaming

(47:31):
but with a fantasy element. Andso he started trying to incorporate that with
some of his friends and make ita bit more sort of this fantasy thing.
And then they came across this wargaming booklet written by Gary guy GaX
called chain Mail, and so theystarted using the rules of chain Mail to

(47:52):
do sort of their war gaming.And eventually Dave Arniston and guy GaX get
together and the idea sort of hisartisan with his imagination and his big picture
kind of thinking, combined with guyGaX, who's more sort of oriented,
like detail oriented, a more rulebase, they created Dungeons and Dragons,

(48:12):
and obviously they tried to shop itaround and no one was interested. So
they started their own company, TacticalStudies Rules, which is a horrible name
TSAR, and that's sort of wherethey built up Dungeon the Dragons through the
nineteen seventies. And then obviously,like we've already mentioned on this show.
It had his major nineteen eighties boomto the point where it had an animated
series and it was a really hoteyem. I mean, it's mentioned et

(48:37):
at the Begave Et. They're playingDungeons and Dragons, so it's getting into
pop culture. It's a major thing. And then I think, just with
mismanagement and I'm sort of this ideaof not adapting, Tastar hit some hard
times and so they sold to Wizardof the Coast, which and of course
eventually was sold to Hasbro, whichnow owns Dudget the Dragons and Dunget Dragons

(48:59):
that had his up and down.I think again it's now sort of at
a period where it's becoming sort ofhot again. I've also learned Dudget Dragons
there's people who are more into thestory element of it, and then there's
more people that are into sort ofthe stat based elements. So there's depending
on how you want to play thegame. For me, I definitely more
of the role playing and the storytellingand sort of that creative creativity element.

(49:22):
I think that's what made Dudget draggesttake off is depending your Dudgeon Master,
you could basically have any kind ofgame you want, You can almost do
whatever you want as long as you'resort of I think there's an unwritten rule
don't do things to spoil the gamefor others, so you sort of try
to do things to still work asa team. But my point is what's
interesting there's Dudgeons and Dragons I thinkhad such a massive influence. Like obviously

(49:45):
you've got Lord of the Rings,and Lord of the Rings heavily influenced the
Dudgets of Dragons to the point wherelike halflings are Hobbits and they originally the
original book has hobbits, but thenthe Tolkien the States sued them, so
they chased up the halflings. Obviously, like I would definitely see Dudgeon Dragons
has been heavily influenced by Lord ofthe Rings. But I think Lord of
the Rings that was kind of likethe high fantasy it Dungeons and Dragons sort

(50:07):
of was a lot of sort ofthe adventure and the thrill, and I
think it really heavily. When yougo into the nineteen eighties, you've got
Star Wars, and then I thinkthe popular of Dudgeons and Dragons did a
lot to sort of people being awareof Codan again because Codan was something that
was it was book, it waspulp books from like the forties, and

(50:31):
Codan all of a sudden becomes abrand name again in the nineteen eighties.
And I think part of that isn'taided to the fact that you've got Dungeons
and Dragons. If fantasy is becomingsort of a big thing, and I
think Dungeons and Dragons has a verylasting impact on sort of fantasy in the
film space. They didn't make aDudgeon of Dragon movie, but I think

(50:52):
all of these other movies that gotgreenlit was because of sort of the excitement
of dragons and the fantasy world.And another area where I'd say Dungeons of
Dragons is massively influential, to thepoint where I'll say it is the reason
there's those RPGs you say, youlike they exist because it Dungeons and Dragons.
Because Dungget and Dragons was being playedby geeks who are also hackers in

(51:15):
the nineteen seventies, and that's whowe're making games, and people were like,
how do we transport this Dungeons andDragons thing I can't get enough of
into game form? How do webring it to computers, And so I
think almost any initial RPG game,an RPG game from the nineteen eighties and
even like the nineties, even Diabolo, they are heavily inspired by Dungeons and

(51:38):
Dragons. And so it's kind ofinteresting where even with some of the people
who think that Dungeon and Dragons isgeeky, or people who have not really
had much experience with it, theyare probably engaging with material that exists because
it dungeonted dragons, which I findfascinating. Well, the thing is,
in video games, the influences ofDungeons and Dragons translates into a lot of

(52:06):
games that people play now, whetherwhether or not it's fantasy. If you
have a character that levels up,if you're putting skill points into things.
So I got to another level,You're okay, So Star Wars bat Battlefront
two, I'm making my character.Oh I want to use get the sniper
rifle. Well, I've got tolevel this up to get the sniper rifle.

(52:29):
There you go. It has ingraineditself in so many genres what Dungeons
and Dragons did and how it's it'sinfluenced games, it's it's gone past anything
that people would really recognize. Imean, if you've got a sports game
where you're leveling up your players,this comes from Dungeons and Dragon That's where

(52:52):
the idea came from. The gameI Love playing Borderlands was the first,
or one of the first, butas the influential first person shooter to take
the idea of looting, take theidea of leveling skill points and put it
in a first person shooter. Thenyou get third person ones and you know,

(53:13):
to all the people out there andplayed the game Ghosts of Tushima,
guess what all your skill points thatyou're putting into things, you can thank
that. Yeah, you look coolas a samurai slashing things. Hey I
build the bear with a katana andthat made my day. But all that
comes from Dungeons and Dragons. Theimpact is insane, and not only in

(53:37):
those hidden ways of those influences,because it influenced this, which influenced this,
which influenced this. There's a gameright out right now. So when
Zelda tears the No not wherever,the latest Zelda game that came out in
May was that everyone was saying thisis the game of the year, Like
there's nothing's gonna beat it because it'sa once in a generation game and now

(54:02):
there's a there's Bald's Gate three outright now, and people are saying,
wait a minute, this game isso good that it could beat Zelda,
like all of a sudden, there'scompetition. And not only is Father's Gate
isn't influenced by stuff that was influencedby Dungeons and Dragons, Balthers Gate is
based off of Dungeons and Dragons directlyto the point where it is a turn

(54:25):
based first person or not first person, it's a turn based role playing game.
Well, it's interesting because we mentionedRBG, and we mentioned the idea
of like building up characters like theturn based element, and obviously building up
your stats is very Dungeons Dragons.But I would even say like a genre,
I really like a video games.The adventure game basically owes its credit

(54:47):
to Dudgets and Dragons as well,because the original game, which was called
Colossal Cave Adventure, which it wasbasically influenced by Dudgeons and dre you're donning
caves, you're exploring, and you'recoming across so the whole like graphic adventure
genre, which is all about exploringand interact with different characters and interact with

(55:10):
different NPCs, and it exploring worlds. That's all dudget dragon based, and
I would say or influenced at least. And the whole idea of any open
world game, and that idea ofopen world trying different things and exploring different
areas, that's all heavily influenced byDungeons and Dragons. Yeah. So,
I mean, all of a suddenpretty much, so many different genres of

(55:34):
video games are being checked off thelist of being influenced by Dungeons and Dragons
and just quickly on the Balder's Gatething. Because if you're listening to this
and think, well, that's stillniche guess what the people who made Balder's
Gate, they were sort of thinking, like, as far as their servers
went, if we let's let's planto peek out at one hundred thousand concurrent

(55:59):
players when like opening weekend came around, and now that was best case scenario
to them, one hundred thousand concurrentplayers. That that's the pot of gold
at the end of the rainbow,and that's what they prepared for. Long
shot, it'll never happen first weekendfor bathers Gate three over eight hundred thousand
concurrent players on Steam alone. Imean that shows that and once again,

(56:22):
this isn't just influenced by something thatwas influenced by Dungeons and Dragons. This
is based off of Dungeons and Dragons, and that's that's what is a hit.
It is really really difficult to saythe scale and the extent of the
influence of Dungeons and Dragons and popculture. It's it's impossible by this point

(56:46):
to fully wrap your head around it. So why do you think, and
well, we did a little alittle bit like the stigma of geekness.
But I just wonder, I wonderif you think if there's any other reasons,
maybe it's just a fancy genre itselfhas a cap But why do you
think dudget Dragos. It's clearly asa massive fan base and the certain things

(57:07):
can be massively popular, like likeas a video game form, massive Massive
hit the tabletop game obviously massive isa billion dollar industry. Why do you
think they have not been able tomake a movie of the scale of like
a Barbie? Why, like somethingthat clearly has a massive fan base,

(57:27):
why can't its movies be such bighits. I think it's possible, It
absolutely is. I think it comesdown to tone and marketing, and I
think that's a challenge when you attacha brand. What we're saying is just
making something of what people like isnot enough. They have to be like,
well, is this worthwhile spending mytime? Is this? Is this

(57:49):
going to give me the same joythat the thing is adapting gives me?
And because like I said, Idon't go see every Stephen Kaye movie,
this mighte I love his book,because most of them, I'm like,
this is not going to provide witha book game me. And yeah,
I think I think the movie landedin this this weird, weird middle ground
where it should have been cheaper.They shouldn't have spent They never should have
spent that much money on it,not on a comedy. That's way too

(58:12):
much. If we're calling this acomedy, yeah, which which I hope
we do. It made me titter, it made me giggle. So so
a few little things I want tokind of mention with this picture. One
of the easter eggs that I reallyappreciated is at the end of the movie,
they come across some characters that arein a cage that have been trapped.

(58:36):
They're basically like, oh, webetter not go in here. This
is a trap, this is outThey ende we should be in the cage.
The characters in that cage are ourheroes from the Dungeons and Dragons animated
series. If you look at theway they're dressed up, they are exactly
in the costumes of the So theDudget Dragons series, a bunch of kids

(58:57):
go on a ride and then endsup in a trap and there's a curson.
They get transported to the world ofDungeoned Dragons and they each are given
powers and then they have their differentcostumes. Those kids from planet Earth are
out duet the dragon land they gotin the movie. That's terrific. I
didn't see the Stinger, but I'mgonna have to check it out, and
I need to say surprise cameo inhere. Bradley Cooper is terrific as Marlmon,

(59:23):
who is basically a house husband toomuch much larger women than he.
He does a great job. Apparentlyhe didn't shoot the scene physically in the
same room as Michelle Rodriguez. Itwas shot at a different point in time.
But what a great job he didas this very quiet, tiny man.

(59:47):
It was perfect, so awesomely aboutthat cameo is one the marquet didn't
spoil it, and no one seemedto really spoil it, so I wasn't
even aware of it. After allthese months has been out. Two did
such a good job. At firstwhat I was watching it, I was
like, that guy looks like BradleyCooper. Me too. I was like,
he kind of he looks familiar.He looks familiar, but he's so

(01:00:10):
like he's speaking so softly. Yes, and it's just like that, is
that actually Bradley Cooper? Yes,it is. And what I'll say just
for the stinger is there is agig in a cemetery. It gets extended.
Loved that somebody's still waiting for aquestion for question. That the way

(01:00:37):
that started going. But if youthink about it, if you go to
a cemetery from after a medieval battleand you start waking people up, a
lot of them are gonna have,well, they died during the battle.
They don't know what happened, theydon't know the outcome. And I love
how the movie plays with that.Now, Chris, are you ready for
your picks? Are you ready forme? To tell you what your punishments

(01:01:00):
will be for having lost the boxOffice challenge. Yeah, so for those
that have not been paying attention,the streak is over. I got so
used to winning every year, tothe point that my kids were like,
what movie do we get to pickfor Scott this year? That it just
became a family outing. They're they'restill reeled away. They said, Dad,

(01:01:22):
how did you how did you doit? How'd you screw up?
And I was like, well,I didn't screw up, just the other
person was better. But so we'reon a spot where, yeah, I
finally lost. Scott's won. Thisis a weird situation for me where I
now have to have to read mypunishment. I really looked. I tried

(01:01:43):
to find some ou A Bowl movies, which, if you know who who
a Bowl is, never really caredabout a budget or be quality. He
made his movies. I respect thefact that he's unapologetic about what he made.
Thankfully, for you, there wasno vabable movies. I did seek

(01:02:06):
out a few films that I thoughtyou would actually like that I wanted you
to see and spaced off your busylife. I didn't think you'd get a
chance to Number one, the latestSlumber Party masker for film. I'd tried
to see if that was on astreaming service you have, it's not.
And the latest Sniper movie, whichturned out to be like, not an

(01:02:30):
ironic I enjoyed it, but anactual Holy crap, I enjoyed it.
Neither of those, So you're stuckwith what I'm going to give you right
now. Number one, I don'tthink these are the worst in the world.
I could have done worst, butI didn't, though it's that's perspective.

(01:02:51):
Number one Overcomer. This is onNetflix. Overcomer is a faith based
film, and hey, there's beensome not too bad faith based films.
However, there's one team in generalthat has made some not so good.
At least I didn't. I don'tfind good. This is written and directed

(01:03:14):
by the Kendrick brothers. Or Sorry, written by the Kendrick brothers, directed
by Alex Kendrick, and you havemade me watch I believe two Alex Kendrick
films. So this is happening.This is it. You're you're gonna have
to watch it. Sorry to tellyou. It doesn't even have it doesn't

(01:03:38):
even have the respect for me tobe like under ninety minutes. No,
here's the thing, though, thisis all you. You did this to
yourself. If you hit my knee, my foot's coming up. You put
these films on me. Even thoughI did try. Like I said,
I tried to find films that youwould actually enjoy, that you would otherwise

(01:03:59):
never see. This movie was alwayson the list if it is a movie
I otherwise would never have seen.That's true. That's true. Now the
next film is just an This isjust an audible. This could be one
of the hardest ones, or overcomermight be the hardest one for you.

(01:04:23):
The next one is a movie thatI saw and I hate it. I
watched it because why not. It'son Netflix. It's a romantic comedy.
It's got Ellie Kemper and it andnot I like Dali Kemper from Kemi Schmidt.
It's called Happiness for Beginners. Idespised this film. The lead So

(01:04:46):
the lead Mail is played by LukeGrimes. Okay, it may may as
well have been Scott Eastwood, itmay as well have been Trevor Gretzky,
because this is the most bland leadin a romantic comedy that you can get

(01:05:06):
and see. The thing as romanticcomedies, as great as they can be,
they can be awful when you don'tlike the people in it. No,
they are awful, but you don'tlike romantic companies need you to like
the leads. And here's the thing. Everything you do, everything that Ellie
Kemper realizes about Jake, like,oh he was there all along, These

(01:05:30):
are all things that a legit stalkerdoes. Nothing he does that you realize
he did is romantic. All ofit is stalker adjacent. Here's the thing
you mentioned as an Ellie Kemper movies. So I'm like, ha, Turk's
on Scott. I really enjoy EllieKemper. And then my brain said,

(01:05:50):
I'm Home Alone. Oh I forgotYeah, notes he's been in a movie
you've hated. Oh yes, yes, yes, Home Home, Sweet Home
Alone. She was in that andshe is in this film. And just
as you're watching, you just rememberstalker adjacent. And I know you hate

(01:06:12):
drab leads. I know you likethe Sam Worthington's I know that there's a
certain type of male lead that drivesyou nuts. Guess what Bucala Luke Grimes
is coming your way. I alsohate romantic comedies. Where the guy is
horrible but we're supposed to think he'sawesome, and Happiness for Beginners wouldn't have

(01:06:35):
been on the list if I couldhave found one of the other films I
wanted, one of the good filmsthat I wanted you to see. Who
Chris is Your What? What isyour favorite action movie of all time?
Not sci fi? Just straight up? What's your favorite action film? Diehard?

(01:06:56):
Okay, how would you like tosee it lead in a film that's
that's obviously gonna be good? Right, you want to see it the Diehard
lead in a film not after twentyten? Okay? Then you are you
strap strap up because you are infor it without of death. Yes,

(01:07:21):
you're gonna be watching Out of Death, which starts Bruce Willis cause I ask
a death please? No, we'reall out. We are all out of
death. So does that mean henkill anyone because they're out of death?
If they were really out of death, then maybe the movie would have been

(01:07:42):
better. It's not good. It'snot a good film. Are all of
Bruce Willis's scenes in a coffee shopwhere he could have been by himself?
I forget this one because this wasduring my I'm gonna watch all of Bruce
Willis's movies. Face. I gavethis one serio point five stars. Oh

(01:08:02):
I remember, Okay, okay,and you've probably heard me say this before
on the podcast about a few ofhis movies where people try to head fake
a bullet. I think that thisis one of the movies where someone tries
to head fake a bullet. Soyou will at least have one tiny possible
moment where you'll laugh. But that'sit. That's all. I'm really scared

(01:08:28):
because I think I just realized something. What's that. There was a really
bad Bruce Willis movie. I can'tremember what's called, but it maybe either
my worst movie of the year Imade my number two. He like has
a space suit or something and hedoes spacings. Okay, so it was
really really bad, really really bad. And my memory says, you'd like

(01:08:49):
this movie Out of Death less thanthat movie. Yes, And I could
barely handle that movie. Oh,apex is a superior your film. Just
so you know, heads up,Apexis is a superior movie. Oh No,
all I have to say is youdidn't put Nick Swarston in here.

(01:09:11):
Oh. I tried, even tothe point where I checked out the price
of a movie with Nick Schwartzon init, and because I was thinking about
buying it for you, so Ilooked into that route. If this is
the Bruce Willis film, I recall, I believe there's even points here where
a lot of this stuff with himis shot from behind. So they didn't

(01:09:34):
because I think it's this film.He was supposed to be there for multiple
days. He showed up and hisrepresentative told the director he's here for one
day, and so a bunch ofstuff had to change. And I think
this is the director that said,this is the last time I ever worked

(01:09:54):
with Bruce Willis. The only pausitivenow is I get to trying to write
funder reviews like you did with moviesthat broke your soul? Sorry? I
said that Apex Art was the BruceWillis movie. You saw it was Cosmic
Sin. The name doesn't matter.It was horrible. It does because Apex

(01:10:15):
was better than Cosmic Sin. Buthere's the thing. Apex was better than
Cosmic Sin, but they both stillsit at zero point five. There's Lady
Ducks zero point fives, and thenthere's good zero point five's. Apex was
a good zero point five bays ofwhat you've said, it sounds like that's
what I'm aiming out of these movies. Zero point five's I hope, so

(01:10:38):
because I gave zero point five toHappiness for Beginners, So well, that's
okay because I haven't seen a horribletwenty twenty three movie yet. So there
it gives me something, So thankyou for that. The other two I
don't get to put on the list. I just get to suffer. Yeah.
Yeah, So I hope these aregood. I hope I did well.

(01:10:59):
I already think they did, becauseyou've already now caused me anxiety and
be questioning, so why why dowe do this contest? Yeah, and
which I've asked that question. Howmany years in a row? Is it
really worth it? Is this reallya thing we wanted to do? What
it is? This here? Itis? Congratulations Scott, you you you

(01:11:26):
won. My kids are asking somany times how did this happen? And
my answer was, Barbie, Barbieis how this happened? He got as
a fifth pick. That's right.We chose eight movies before we chose the
highest opening weekend of the summer.That's never happened. Eight films. I
had four goes at it. Chrishad four goes at it and we left

(01:11:48):
it on the table. There waslike it was a proper shocker that it
did that. Well. Uh,if you want to write in and your
condolences to Chris on films he hasto watch, you can do so by
get sending us an email the MovieBreakdown at gmail dot com. Or if
you have films that you'd like usto chat about at a later date,

(01:12:09):
you can do that as well.You can reach out to us on Twitter
at Movie Breakdown one. On FacebookWe're at the Movie Breakdown as well.
Please do subscribe to us and rateus on Spreaker, Spotify, cast,
Box, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, or wherever it is that you listen
to your podcasts, and please wealways appreciate being shared on the social media.

(01:12:29):
And do swing by Beyond the Balconyfor writings and you can go to
that by head going to Beyond Balconydot com. Yes, please check it
out. There will be some morestuff on their all week reviews thoughts,
all that fun stuff and so that'llbe great and then come back here next
week because I might have to sufferthrough some bad movies, but we aren't

(01:12:54):
going to be talking about bad movies. Next week, No, no,
no, we are doing the breakdownof the best coming of age movies of
the past ten years, because youknow what, my kids are going back
to school, my wife's going backto school. It's time to think about
school again. And so we willbe picking high school movies or maybe even
elementary school movies, or maybe thesummertime. But essentially it's those teen movies.

(01:13:18):
It's those movies of the kids whogo on an adventure and they learn
about themselves coming of age movies,which is a soft spot for me and
Scott. I have always been ahuge fan of John Hughes. I love
John Hughes movies. I love lotsof movies from the nineties. But I
thought, you know what, wealways talked about John Hughes movies, or
we always talk about some great stufffrom the nineties like Clueless or whatever.

(01:13:41):
But there's been really great coming ofmovies from the last ten years, but
they really get talked about. Sofor next week, we get to spotlight
some modern classics that probably don't getdiscussed too much. Yeah, one of
them mine, I can guarantee,has Merlin the Magician in a Led Zeppelin
T shirt. What it's a thing. And oh, I wanted to ask

(01:14:01):
this question. I know that thatEverett tried to do magic after seeing the
kid who was king? Did hetry doing the fresh cut grass trick?
After watching Dungeons and Dragons? Didhe did he go around saying fresh cut
grass? I don't think he triedthat, but he he did bring out
his magic box to start trying todo magic again. Okay, that's good.

(01:14:25):
I want him to tell him that. I want him to nail the
fresh cut grass trick. I thinkI could pull that off after I mow
the lawn. Awesome. Oh,thank you to all those who listened to
this episode. We're grateful for yoursupport. Yes, I'm Christopher Spitzer and
I'm Scott Merchant. Take care ofeveryone. Have a great week at the

(01:14:48):
movies. Ummm