Episode Transcript
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This is a studio both and production. Are you truly responsible for killing twenty
one people? And never ever woulddream that you really killed twenty one people?
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There's reasons none of the things thatyou've told me, like to do
with the body at the beach anddropped at the beach and killed inside the
house at your mom and dad's house, and your cousin being involved in it,
none of that adds up. Nowyour cousin's dead, but I haven't
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got nobody at the beach. There'slatitudes and longitudes where they are. You
have the latitudes and longitudes for allyour locations, and why would you keep
it? Why not? Kis arereally a bag of trophies two banks.
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The tricky thing with Kelly cochrane istrying to sort out truth from lies,
and while at first glance, herlist of hers and Jason's thirty two alleged
victims are significantly more forthcoming than Keysever was, at least keys vague confessions
actually led to missing people lend possiblevictims. Kelly's specificity often leads nowhere at
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all. However, when parsed certaindetails from her lists and her statements regarding
the people on those lists, canat best actually be verified and at a
minimum are reflective of actual murders andmissing persons cases. For example, on
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her list of Jason's alleged eleven murders, the chronological first is a middle aged
man named Matt, who Jason supposedlykilled at the King's Motel in Fulton,
Tennessee, on June nineteenth of twothousand and three. And as I discussed
in the previous episode, there arefew things off about Kelly's account of this
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murder. For one, her descriptionof the victim matches Jason Ruder, the
man she likely shot in Hastings,Minnesota. Secondly, there is no King's
Motel, or any motel for thatmatter, in Fulton, Tennessee, but
there is a King's Way Motel inFulton, Kentucky, and Fulton, Kentucky
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is right outside of wing Go,Kentucky, where Jason's cousin lived and where
Kelly was eventually arrested. As faras I can tell, there's only been
one attempted murder at the Kingsway Motel. Oddly, it occurred on the same
day that Chris Regan was murdered,and local law enforcement have a suspect for
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it. So This clearly isn't JasonCochrane, who was preoccupied and eight hundred
miles away that day. The KingswayMotel also made the news when a rapist
and child molester from Pennsylvania was foundand arrested hiding out there in twenty nineteen.
So clearly it's a great place tostay if you happen to be in
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the area, and it would definitelymake sense that the Cochranes would know about
it. Looking at Fulton, Kentuckyitself, there aren't any unsolved disappearances there,
nor do there appear to be anyunsolved homicides there. According to the
Kentucky State Police's Cold case website.There are also no reported unsolved disappearances anywhere
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in the country from June nineteenth,two thousand and three. There are only
two on the eighteenth, and theyare a couple who was lost at sea
near Palm Beach, Florida in thesix surrounding counties in Tennessee. In Kentucky,
there are eighteen unsolved disappearances in total, and not a single one occurred
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in two thousand and three, andonly one occurred in a June that fell
within Jason's adult life. On Junesecond, of twenty thirteen, but that
man is believed to be homeless andnot a victim of foul play. But
here's where Kelly's confession gets weird.A woman's body was discovered on the morning
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of June twentieth of two thousand andthree in the Plaza Motel just fifty miles
southwest of Fulton in Dyersburg, Tennessee, Michelle Quinsola. Kelly's cause of death
has never been made public, butauthorities did report that it was a homicide
and that her legs and arms werebound. When her body was discovered,
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Local law enforcement targeted Michelle's husband,Sean Pierce, almost immediately as a suspect.
It remains unclear why Pierce was theirfirst and only suspect in the case.
Interestingly, though, after he wasnamed a suspect in his wife's murder,
Pierce fled the area and was eventuallyarrested in Fulton, Kentucky. At
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trial in two thousand and four,Pierce pled guilty to the second degree murder
of his wife. So what exactlyare the odds of Kelly randomly writing down
the exact date and approximate place ofa homicide that actually occurred, and what
does this mean for the case ofMichelle Kelly. Did Kelly Cochrane read about
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the murder then commit it to memoryto use it at some unforced in arrest
thirteen years later. Did Kelly andor Jason actually have something to do with
the murder of Michelle Kelly? Thisis the issue with Kelly and her lists.
Little kernels of truth pop up throughoutboth weird coincidences that seem just a
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little too coincidental. And since itseems the victims on those two lists seem
to be at minimum influenced by oneanother or at most conflated into a smaller
actual list of victims, let's takea look at those lists contents, starting
with Jason's. Kelly wrote Jason's listin reverse chronological order, starting with Chris
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Regan, who she attributed solely toJason. This is her handwritten list,
verbatim. One Chris Reagan, IronRiver, Caspian, Michigan, shot in
the head, October fourteenth, twentyfourteen. Two Robert or Bob Hobart,
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Indiana, cut up with a hatchetSeptember twentieth, two thousand and twelve.
Remains in Deep River Park. Numberthree initials l L. These were initials
engraved on a locket I found Hobart, Indiana, stabbed with a knife and
a hatchet. June fifth, twothousand eleven. Remains in Deep River Park.
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Number four two men in their thirties, Southern Lafayette area, by Sugar
Creek, where we camped a fewtimes July of two thousand nine. Number
five Noah. Not sure if thisname is correct. May twelfth, two
thousand and eight, remains Robinson LakePark and Hobert. Jason knew him.
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I think, but not sure ofthe affiliation. Number six Anne or Anna
April twenty seventh, two thousand andeight, remains in Indiana Dunes Park before
Mount Baldy, off Route twenty.Number seven Adam September first, two thousand
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and seven remains in Indiana Dunes Park, right off Route twelve before Beverly Shores.
There are steps going up to thebeach from the parking lot, and
this happened at the bottom of thosesteps. Disposed nearby. Number eight two
men, maybe one in twenties,the other in thirties, close to Potato
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Creek. We camped here and theywere giving me a hard time. Jason
said. He waited until I wassleeping at an Amish camp ground approximately two
hours east of Hobert. All oftheir year was still there the following day,
but I never saw them. Numbernine name question mark, not sure
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if this was a woman or man. Happened at Deep River Park in Hobert.
When he took me here, heactually showed me a bone, a
rib, a bone possibly. AndNumber ten Matt middle aged man, over
six feet tall, dark hair.He drove an older model red crown,
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Victoria, Tennessee, Kentucky border,Fulton, Tennessee. Happened at King's Motel
June nineteenth, two thousand and three. I am one hundred percent certain about
these details. Now, there's afew things that I immediately stand out about
this list. For starters, thereare twelve victims on it, and not
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eleven. Secondly, she can't remembermost of their names, but she can
remember the exact dates of almost allof Jason's murders. Murders she claims she
wasn't present for and had nothing todo with, which is weird. But
Kelly is really good with dates andnumbers. Keys usually gave time frames that
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consisted of a specific month, withinone or two years, or a specific
season within a specific year. Kelly, though, almost always says an exact
date and is almost always exactly rightwhen, of course, she's talking about
something that actually happened that can actuallybe verified. For example, when discussing
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Jason's and Chris's murders, every singletime she mentions either murder, she gets
the dates exactly right. The mostnotable thing about this list, though,
is the locations of all the bodies, locations that completely exclude the stomachs of
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their pigs. Kelly has repeatedly goneon and on and on about how Jason
fed his victims to their pigs,but when taxed with accounting for his victims
and they're whereabouts the pigs don't evercome up. Not a theory on that,
But first, let's take a lookat Kelly's list of her twenty one
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alleged victims. Kelly's list and herensuing explanations of it are much more and
forgive this turn of phrase. Fleshedout what began as a handwritten lists similar
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to Jason's, she slowly filled inover time during her conversations with Ogden.
Now, you may recall that Kellytalked about Gary Caldwell being her first murder.
Well, it seems that she forgotabout a murder that took place before
Gary, because Kelly's chronological list andher discussions regarding it placed Gary as her
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second victim. Kelly alleges that herfirst murder took place when she was sixteen.
It's a wild story that, likeher story about Matt and the King's
Motel, has some truth to it, but also a ton of inconsistencies.
Kelly claims she met Dylan Austin,a twenty three year old man from Rensselaer,
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Indiana, through her friend Tim Kay. The two were casually dating when
she alleges she murdered him at herparents house in Hobert during an argument about
sex. In later interviews, shewould say that the argument was about meth.
She'd also claim to have killed Dylanin a friend's car near Lake Station,
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Indiana. Those inconsistencies, as weirdas they may be, aren't what
makes this story so strange, though. Kelly claims that she actually convinced her
eleven year old cousin to stab Dylan. That he stabbed Dylan under durest from
Kelly, and then she got ridof the body and cleaned up the mess.
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Kelly went on to tell investigators thattwo years later, that cousin died
by suicide, that his actions andtheir secret led him into a deep depression
that ended with him hanging himself inthe family garage. And the thing is
that actually did happen. Kelly's youngercousin, whom she named, did die
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by suicide in two thousand and one, approximately two years after this alleged event
took place, and Ogden was evenable to track down Tim Kay and interviewed
him regarding Kelly and Dylan. TimKay told Ogden that he spent the oughts
doing a lot of drugs, andhis memory of people and events that decade
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weren't great, but he couldn't recallever knowing or being friends with someone named
Dylan Austen. He also couldn't recallever knowing or being friends with someone named
Kelly Cochrane. Ogden was able tofind six different Dylan Austens in the state
of Indiana, all of whom arestill alive. Kelly claims she dumped Dylan
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Austen's remains along a small creek atSilver Beach on Lake Michigan, a beach
in a highly trafficked area which hasno small creek anywhere near it. So
again we have a tenuous claim atbest, which includes some strange coincidences and
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actual truths. Tim Kay doesn't havea common last name at all, so
it seems Kelly was at least awareof him and his existence. Kelly's cousin
did tragically die by suicide in twothousand and one, and we know Kelly
has a history of manipulating others todo her dirty work. So did she
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convince this poor kid to do somethingawful or is she just exploiting his death
for her own gain, whatever thatgain may be. Now, there are
two unsolved disappearances that occurred in Indianawhen Kelly was sixteen, the first of
which occurred in Indianapolis and is believedto have been a suicide. The second,
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however, happened within walking distance ofKelly's house. John lenn Taylor was
last seen on May twenty first ofnineteen ninety nine on the thirty nine hundred
block of Adams Street in Gary,Indiana, almost exactly five miles from Kelly's
parents' house on Mississippi Street, andjust days before Kelly's seventeenth birthday. John
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was forty eight when he disappeared followingan argument with an unnamed person at his
girlfriend's house. Almost a year priorto his disappearance, John was shot from
behind and left for dead in thesame area he disappeared from. The shooter
was never identified, and it's unclearwhether the shooting and his disappearance are related.
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Interestingly, in March of twenty twelve, just three miles north from where
Taylor went missing, a human skullwas found along a small creek bed.
Gary Police have never publicly identified whothe school belongs to, but have said
it was likely human remains that they'dbeen looking for for a very long time.
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The skull was recovered just six mileswest along the same highway from Lake
Station, Indiana. And here isthe trouble with Kelly's lists. The details
often line up with actual homicides,it's just the names that don't. Next
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up on Kelly's list is the infamousGary Caldwell, who Kelly claims she killed
when she was thirteen or fourteen,or some time around her seventeenth birthday,
depending on when you ask her.According to Kelly, Gary was from Calumet
City, Illinois, served in themilitary, was twenty four and lived with
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his mother and sister. She saidhis remains were never recovered, and she
vaguely remembered there being several searches forhim, but ultimately she deemed Gary as
someone who would not be missed.And again, there is no such missing
person. No one went missing fromCalumet City in the years she listed,
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and there are not any unsolved disappearancesfor anyone named Gary Caldwell. Ever,
the name Gary Caldwell is interesting though. Gary is the closest major city to
Meryllville, less than five miles away. Caldwell is a division of nearby Peoria,
Illinois, and there is one unsolveddisappearance in Caldwell, which occurred a
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week after Kelly's seventeenth birthday. MichaelStephen Bocot disappeared from the East Peoria neighborhood
following a hospital visit. The fortyseven year old was hospitalized after a fight
at a party. He left thehospital on foot, still in his hospital
gown, and was never seen again. Michael had no military record to speak
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of, but he does have acriminal record. Bocot has multiple arrests,
including battery and disorderly conduct, andMichael was living with his mother and sister
at the time of his disappearance,and even weirder, he was originally from
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Mattoon, Illinois. And I don'teven know what to make of this.
It seems like a stretch to connectKelly to his disappearance simply based on the
name Gary Caldwell, but the coincidencesbetween his disappearance and Kelly's list are strange
and strong anyhow, Moving on.Number three on Kelly's list is Chris Adams,
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who she claimed to have killed intwo thousand and three and merely stated
that he was neither from nor killedin Indiana. Then there's Michael Marcus,
whom and later reviews she calls MichaelVargas from East Chicago. Kelly says she
stabbed Michael to death and his remainshave never been recovered. The details in
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both of these claims are too vagueand common to yield anything. However,
East Chicago will come up a lotin Kelly's claims. Next up is the
two thousand and six stabbing of DanielVedamos from East Chicago. Kelly claims she
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dumped his body in Robinson Lake inHobert. In addition to East Chicago,
Robinson Lake will also come up alot in Kelly's lists. Now, there
are no unsolved disappearances of anyone namedDaniel Vedomos or even anyone with the last
name Vedamos. I'm sure you're shocked. There are four unsolved disappearances from Chicago
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in two thousand and six, thoughthree of whom are men. One of
those three men is strongly believed tobe in Mexico, so that leaves us
with Ted Pulka and Jesse Warren Ross. If you're a rapid true crime consumer,
you're probably familiar with Jesse Ross's case. Jesse disappeared in the early morning
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hours on November twenty first while ata model un conference with the University of
Missouri Kansas City. He was nineteenat the time, and he doesn't really
match Kelly's claims nor her known victimology. Ted Pauca, on the other hand,
does Ted was forty two when hedisappeared. He was unemployed and a
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heavy drinker and drug user who wasknown to live somewhat on the periphery in
East Chicago. Kelly claims she metDaniel Vedamos in East Chicago through her friend
who will call Tanya, who Kellyreferred to as a druggy slut. She
claimed they were either buying or usingdrugs when she met Daniel. I've reached
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out to Tanya, but as ofthis recording, haven't heard back from her.
Like East Chicago and Robinson Lake,Tanya comes up several times in Kelly's
lists. Number six is forty somethingCharles Price, who Kelly claims she killed
outside of a bar in East Chicago. She says she knew him very well,
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which is funny considering it took herover an hour to remember his last
name. Kelly claims that she stabbedhim in the neck, then took his
body to Cedar Lake, Indiana,where she poured acid on him. She
says that she accidentally burned herself withthe acid, pointing out a clear burn
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scar on her stomach. Again,no missing Charles Prices anywhere in the United
States. Number seven is a damnmess and it's one you're familiar with.
When first written, it was JasonBoden or Jason Salmon Tico from Hasting,
Minnesota. However, after meeting withHasting police, as we discussed in episode
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twelve, Kelly made some changes toher story. During her interview she said
Jason was from Saint Cloud and notHasting, and after her interview, she
told Ogden that her victim wasn't JasonBoden or Samon Tico, but Jason Olsen,
who was a friend of Jason Bodenslash Jason Salmon Tico. It should
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be noted that this name change occurredafter Kelly's meeting with the Hasting investigator,
whose name is Jason Olsen. Numbereight on Kelly's list is simply Dan from
Hobert, who Kelly claims was athirty something man who she met through Tania
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and eventually forced to drink acid.She later dissolved his remaining remains in acid
and dumped that plastic tub at theHobert dump. Next up is Tony Miller,
a man from Merrylville she claims shehad an ongoing sexual relationship with in
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two thousand nine and two thousand ten. Kelly says she stabbed Tony in the
neck while he was in his ChryslerSea Bring. Then she drove the car
back to her house on Mississippi Street, where Jason somehow inexplicably destroyed it on
their property without anyone knowing. Tony'sbody was allegedly dumped in a marsh in
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Highland, Indiana. When further pressedabout the car, Kelly claimed that she
and Jason destroyed every car that wasever involved in their homicides. They usually
set them on fire, but theyhad also cut several up. Number ten
was Adam Russell. You may noticethat most of these men have very common
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names. Kelly claims that she metAdam at a friend's house in two thousand
and nine, and that he wasin town on vacation. She says he
was twenty eight and that she stabbedhim to death at this friend's house.
And then, and you'll love this, she stole a boat. Somehow got
his bloody body from her friend's houseonto the stolen boat without anyone being the
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wiser, then sailed the stolen boatinto a nearby lake and sank his body.
According to Kelly, she never sawany reporting on Adam being missing,
but she did cease several stories aboutthe missing boat. Now, thankfully,
there's a pretty comprehensive list of watercraftthat's been reported stolen, and according to
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that list, in two thousand andnine, the closest stolen boat to Merrillville
was over one hundred miles away inFox Lake, Illinois. Number eleven is
Brandon Baker, who is definitely nota real person. According to Kelly,
they grew up together. She killedhim in two thousand and nine in the
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woods behind his parents' house in Demot, Indiana, when they were both twenty
five or twenty six. She didn'tbury him, but she did cover up
his body with nearby dirt and debris. And no, there's no missing Brandon
Baker from Demot or Hobert or Merrillvilleor anywhere. And yes, it's wildly
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unrealistic that a man could be deadin his own parents' backyard for over a
decade without ever being recovered. Andno, no one in Kelly's family knows
anyone with this name or a similarname. But Kelly also told investigators that
she still knew Brandon's phone number byheart, which obviously I won't share on
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the podcast. Kelly stated during thisconfession that numbers are very important to her,
which is why she's so good atremembering them, specifically dates and phone
numbers. Anyway, that phone numbercan be traced back to someone rather interesting,
a man with no visible connections toKelly or her family, who worked
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in Calumet City in the mining andmanufacturing industry, and he lived all over
the Hobert area. A man whois very much alive. And we'll circle
back to that man in just afew minutes. Next is Sean Stoker.
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Yes, Kelly has a thing foralliteration. Sean was a twenty six year
old man from Hebrew, Indiana,who Kelly alleges to have stabbed multiple times
at a campground in nearby White Countyin twenty twelve. Kelly says his remains
can be found intact in an abandonedmining pit in north Crawfordsville, Indiana.
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She also says the number fourteen isvery important in this case. Yes,
about halfway through her confessions, Kellysuddenly became a numerologist. Nobodies have ever
been recovered from any abandoned mines inCrawfordsville, So, presuming this is a
real person, he's still missing.There are only four men who went missing
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in Indiana in twenty twelve whose casesare still open, and none of them
are from Hebron or Crawfordsville, oreven White County. None of them went
missing while camping. And yes,I did look, and the number fourteen
doesn't come up in any of thosecases. Speaking of numbers, number thirteen
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on Kelly's list is James Walker fromthe East Side of Chicago. Kelly says
she took a mini filet knife fromhim as a trophy. Number fourteen is
simply Mike. Mike was either fromHebron or Noblesville, two towns with no
reported missing persons cases. Kelly injectedpoor Mike with speed before stabbing him in
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the neck. While recounting this murder, she anecdotally told Ogden that it takes
exactly six minutes for a man tobleed out from a next stabbing. So
there's that. Mike was murdered intwenty thirteen and sunk in a lake somewhere
in Indiana. Around the same timeas Mike, Kelly also killed Doug.
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She stabbed Doug two, then sheburned his finger tips with acid and knocked
out all of his teeth with achisel and hammer. His remains are somewhere
in Lake Michigan near Whiting, Indiana. Doug was twenty nine years old,
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and sometime between Doug and Kelly's movedIron River. In January of twenty fourteen,
she killed Aaron Justice, a personwho doesn't seem to exist. Aaron
was from you guessed it, EastChicago. She stabbed him to death in
Chestertown, Indiana, then buried himin a shallow grave near a pond.
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Maybe coincidentally. Richard Justice disappeared fromFort Wayne, Indiana on December first of
two thousand and six. Fort Wayneis a two and a half hour drive
from Merrillville. There are very fewdetails available regarding Richard. All we know
is he was fifty at the timeof his disappearance. The alleged murders of
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Mike doug and mister Justice all wouldhave occurred around the time Andrew Fugate was
murdered in Merrillville. Number seventeen ism Turner from Michigan City. Kelly killed
him in the summer of twenty fifteen, after she returned to Indiana from the
Upper Peninsula. Apparently twenty fourteen andtwenty fifteen were very busy years for Kelly.
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She claims mister Turner's remains can befound in a farmer's pond in either
Wamata or Mawata, neither of whichare places that seem to exist. Now.
There are three unsolved disappearance from MichiganCity, Indiana, and only one
of them is a man, FranciscoHuizar. Francisco was last seen leaving his
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home at around two fifty pm onMarch seventeenth of two thousand. He was
on his way to work the nightshift at his job at the press department
at PSW Incorporated, less than amile and a half from his home.
He was never seen again. However, Francisco's car was found on April third
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in a nature preserve in Gary,Indiana. It had been burned beyond recognition
and could only be identified by itsthen. And here's the weird thing.
Remember that phone number that Kelly recitedto police. The phone number she claimed
belonged to Brandon Baker, while itbelonged to a man who worked in the
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building adjacent to where Francisco's car wasfound. Shortly after murdering m Turner in
twenty fifteen, Kelly claims to havestabbed twenty two year old Nathan Holder.
Nathan Holder is allegedly from Belleville,Illinois. Kelly says she took his wallet
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and hat as trophies, and claimsthe coordinates to his house can be found
on her trucks. GPS spoiler alert, they weren't. The only unsolved disappearance
out of Belleville is that of DonnaMezzo, who disappeared when Kelly was nine.
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There's a missing Monterio holder from Indianapolis, but he went missing when Kelly
was eleven. Now, both cochringshave connections to Saint Louis, which is
just across the river from Bellevue,and we'll be getting into those in a
future episode. And finally, onKelly's list are Jason and the Mattoon truck
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driver. If you're keeping track andrealize there are only twenty victims, yeah,
I caught it too. So sheclaimed Jason killed eleven people but listed
twelve, and she claimed that shekilled twenty one people but listed twenty.
So I guess in the end itstill adds up to thirty two. You'll
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also note that Kelly has repeatedly toldfamily and investigators that she has a victim
in Tennessee, and yet the onlymention of Tennessee is Jason's alleged murder at
the Kingsway Motel on the Kentucky Tennesseeborder. Kelly closed her lengthy confession with
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this very charming quote. Everything I'vetold you is true, just not all
the details. In all of myresearch and investigation into Israel Keys, I
never once thought this thing I'm aboutto write or say is totally unreasonable and
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borders on crazy. With my investigationinto Kelly, I feel that constantly,
and I can't help but wonder ifmaybe that's the point, to give us
just enough misleading information that every roadwe go down makes us feel like lunatics,
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and rather than questioning her, westart to question ourselves. I mean,
if Kelly has proven to be anything, it's terrifyingly good at gaslighting people.
So what's the utility to all ofthese lies? And what exactly is
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she lying about? Is it thedetails and not the names like she claims,
or is it the names and notthe details, because most of the
details on her lists point sometimes eerilyto actual murders and actual missing people.
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And we've only just begun exploring theeerie connections between what the Cochranes have written
and crimes that have actually occurred.