18. Both/And

The finale.

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.

Episode Transcript

(00:09):
This is a studio both And production. If you'd like to support this show
and get ad free episodes for aslittle as two dollars a month, go
to patreon dot com slash studio bothand. What's a typewritten note during this
investigation that you claim from Jason wasfrom Jason. But it was not from

(00:32):
Jason. It was fictitious and generatedby you. You want to know how
I know that? Come on,answer yes or no? Yes or no?
Yes or no? Yes? Yes? You generated a little letter I

(01:00):
had. Animal wise, you can'twrite that. He didn't write that.
It's not even his terrology, it'syours. This is that UM like a
nightmare. Um, I really had. I had some strong feelings for Chris.
I mean I can't even explain that, or do I even want to?
Um, that house will always beit's painted to me. I mean

(01:25):
I could never live there, right, Um, if it would help with
the expenses, I would just signit over to UM for whatever, to
I guess for Iron River to finishthe rest of the case. Oh well
that's really going, you know,really going out there on a limb and

(01:45):
uh, I appreciate what you're tryingto do in a I really appreciate that.
UM to me, UM, Idon't understand you know why I can't
find things that you're telling me tofind, And it's I've been frying.
I want you to know that.I again, like I said, I've
been out there all day. Infact, I kind of went over our

(02:06):
last conversation. You know where you'regiving me. You know this road that
you guys went down that went tothe cabins, went to the water,
the big curve. You know you'retelling me there's you know, a center
point between the Big Curve and UStwo. And I'm even trying to get
more cadaver dogs up here. Butmy problem is, I mean, I've

(02:27):
walked that on foot so many timesthat I feel my gut tells me that
you know, because I know you'resmart enough to know, and I my
gut tells me you know exactly whereI need to go. And I just
feel like you're not telling me exactlyyou know, because I do. I

(02:49):
think that everything else you've told methat checks out, and you're so good
at knowing all the details. Ifeel like I know she can tell me
this. I know that I'm smartenough to know what she's telling me.
And be able to find what she'stelling me. Do you know what I'm
saying? Right? Was hard toPeople are complicated. If there's a single

(03:19):
through line for this entire podcast,it's that rather than judging people and their
actions through some binary and either or, more often than not, people exist
as both and Israel Keys was botha prolific and calculating serial killer with no
respect for human life and a caringfather, boyfriend, and community member.

(03:46):
Kelly Cochrane's story is complicated. Kellyherself is complicated. Keys was so organized,
so meticulous, that even in death, it's a lot easier to navigate
them he left behind. Kelly,on the other hand, runs in chaos.
She lies over and over again,and I believe she does it just

(04:11):
to muddy the water. She's bothcrazy and calculated, and how she leverages
her perceived craziness. Kelly is botha victim and someone who pretends to be
a victim. Kelly was both abusedand an abuser. As the trite but
true saying, goes hurt people hurtpeople, and Kelly took her childhood hurt

(04:36):
out into the world and caused chaosand pain everywhere she went. There's a
lot to be said about how bothKelly and Jason's relationships have shaped them.
Jason was raised in a pretty typicalMidwestern household that had fairly typical expectations of
men play sports, shoot guns,have kids, build a career, support

(05:02):
your family, be a man.But Jason was dealt a pretty bad hand.
He had chronic health problems ranging fromsciatica to cancer. He had severe
mental health challenges. His wife wasinfertile, and Jason at least felt like

(05:23):
he was incapable of working and supportinghis family. Not to mention, he
had a domineering wife who worked hard, supported the entire house, and belittled,
abused, and cheated on him.Oh and she was a serial killer
too, who may have been killingpeople throughout their entire marriage. Jason didn't

(05:46):
live up to the standards or expectationsset upon him as a man, and
so he overcompensated. He told friendsand family about wanting to kill people or
having killed people, about wanting topoison water supplies, about wanting to murder
entire families. And yet, despiteKelly's crimes and his participation in them,

(06:10):
which no one's denying, there's noevidence Jason actually killed anyone, let alone
poisoned an entire city. It seemsas though he was exerting power and control
in a world where he felt hehad neither. If Kelly lies to muddy
the waters of her crimes and tomanipulate people, Jason lied so that he

(06:31):
could briefly be the man he feltlike he was supposed to be, intimidating,
threatening, big, and Kelly,as she always does, exploited that
in two ways. One she couldmake Jason complicit and participatory in her actual

(06:53):
crimes. Two, she could makeJason look like the killer in the family.
As much as Kelly exploited the wayswomen are underestimated, she also exploited
the ways in which men are overestimated. Because of Kelly's lies, which are

(07:20):
likely both compulsive and organized chaos,we may never know who exactly she murdered,
but based on her two lists,emerging patterns, and her behavior,
we can start to make sense ofwhen she murdered people, which of her
stories have the most weight, andwhat exactly her m was. And So

(07:44):
I made a list of mayown wellseveral lists, starting with Kelly's known victims.
On February twentieth of twenty sixteen,I believe if Kelly took her last
life when she smothered Jason to deathwith a pillow. And on October fourteenth

(08:07):
of twenty fourteen, Kelly lured ChrisRegan to her home in Caspian, Michigan,
and where I believe she and shealone shot him in the back of
the head. Jason helped her cleanup and dismember and dispose of Regan's body.
And yes, I do believe,based on the repetition of the story

(08:28):
and lack of recovered remains, thatthe Cochranes likely fed Chris's remains to their
neighbors. The second list is ofthe two victims I believe were very likely
murdered by Kelly, both with helpfrom Jason. I believe that Kelly and

(08:48):
Jason very likely murdered Jason Ruder.Kelly told investigators she killed a father of
two named Jason in Hasting, Minnesotain twenty fourteen. Jason Ruter, a
father of two, was shot inthe back of the head, like Chris
Regan, on June twenty second oftwenty fourteen, in Hasting, Minnesota.

(09:11):
Kelly also told investigators that she buriedevidence from at least one of her murders
in Ottawa Park. Kelly and Jasoncamped in Ottawa Park the weekend following Ruter's
murder. I'm even more certain thatKelly and Jason murdered Andrew Fugate at the
Pietech Meat Plant on November fourth oftwenty thirteen. Andrew was shot in the

(09:33):
back of the head by the sameoff brand Ammo used to shoot Chris Regan
in the back of the head.The Cochranes were known to work with local
meat plants, and Pietech Meets wasless than five miles from their home.
Just two months after fugates murder andseveral weeks after the release of video footage
showing two people exiting a white suvand entering Pietech Meets. At the time

(09:58):
of the murder, the Cochrane's abruptlyleft Indiana for the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Additionally, there are two missing personscases that actually match up with a
lot of the stories Kelly has toldabout her victims and Jason's and full disclosure.
I wasn't able to get the casefiles on either, so these hypotheses

(10:22):
are based on what's available online andin the media, and an interpretation of
the lies Kelly's told in the timesand ways in which She's told these lies.
The first of those two missing peopleis Jared Hannah. Jared was a
twenty eight year old single father oftwo when he disappeared on either July second

(10:46):
or third of twenty eleven. Atthe time of his disappearance, Jared was
living in Jerseyville, Illinois, andthe last confirmed sighting of Jared was by
his sister at around noon on Julysecond, at the home they shared in
Jerseyville. About thirty minutes later,his phone pinged at a tower located twenty
miles away in East Alton, Illinois, and then there's no activity on his

(11:11):
phone until nine thirty, Over ninehours after the East Alton ping. At
nine thirty, Jared called the motherof his two daughters, whom he was
supposed to pick up. He toldher that he'd run out of gas and
was trying to get to a gasstation. That call pinged off a tower
seventy five miles away from East Haltonand from where his daughters lived with their

(11:35):
mother and a rural area just northof Centralia, Illinois, and that was
the last confirmed contact with Jared.On July fifth, Jared's car was found
parked and out of gas along JolifeBridge Road, about three miles north of
Centralia in a rural farming area,and when local law enforcement started looking into

(11:58):
his disappearance, two fairly credible tipscame in. One from a motorist who
said he saw a man fitting Jared'sdescription walking along Jolife Bridge Road at around
midnight between July second and third.A second tip came in from a couple
who lived on Jolife Bridge Road.They stated that a man matching Jared's description

(12:22):
knocked on their door at around eightam on July third, asking for a
drink of water and directions to thenearest gas station. According to Jared's sister,
when Jared left their house on themorning of the second, he had
his fishing gear with him and toldher he was going to look at a
car that was for sale. Hisfishing gear was never recovered, and law

(12:45):
enforcement haven't been able to find anyinformation on the car Jared was supposedly going
to see. About two and ahalf months after his disappearance, Jared's black
Duffel bag was found under a deerstand five miles worth of where his car
was found. Because it was coveredin rainwater and mud, no prince could
be lifted. There have been nosigns of Jared's since the sighting on the

(13:11):
morning of July third. So whyKelly, you ask? Well, I've
long suspected that Kelly's lists of victimsare a mix of outright lies and a
scattering of details, And with thedisappearance of Jared Hannah, there's a mix
of circumstantial evidence and details that matchsome of Kelly's lists. For starters,

(13:35):
Incident three on her list of Jason'svictims, and comments she made about an
Illinois murder conflated actually matched the date, location, and details of Jared's disappearance.
Incident number three on Jason's list allegesthat on June fifth of two thousand
and eleven, Jason murdered someone inDeep River Park near Hobert. Kelly claims

(14:01):
that Jason took a locket with theinitials l L from this victim. Jared
disappeared some time between July second andJuly fourth of two thousand eleven. I'm
sure you'll recall that Kelly claimed tohave killed a truck driver at a motel
six and Mattune, Illinois, severaldays before her arrest, and while she

(14:22):
could be placed at the Motel sixand was seen with a trucker while she
was there, there were no missingtruck drivers reported in the area at that
time, nor was there any evidencethat any crime had been committed in the
motel. But before financial records indicatedKelly stayed in Mattune, she told investigators

(14:43):
that this murder took place near Effingham, Illinois. Jared's car was found about
fifty miles southwest of Effingham, ohAnd Jared he was a truck driver.
Kelly also told invest stigators that Minnesota, Jason was a single father to two

(15:03):
young girls. Jason rud was afather to two young boys, but Jared
Hannah was a single father to twoyoung girls. And then there's the piece
of jewelry that went missing with Jared. On the day Jared went missing,
he was reportedly wearing a necklace witha silver cross on it. That necklace

(15:24):
was never found. In Kelly's listof trophies, she includes a necklace with
a silver cross. Most notably,though, is the location. In twenty
eleven, Kelly was enrolled in herforensics course at Purdue University Calumet, and

(15:45):
she was taking multiple trips to theTennessee Body Farm, the inspiration behind her
butterfly obsession. It's about an eighthour drive from Maryville to the Body Farm,
so according to Kelly and Jason cousin, she frequently drove there through Wingo,
Kentucky, where she'd stay the night, and route Interstate fifty seven takes

(16:07):
you directly from Merylville to Wingo.Jared's car was found just five miles off
Interstate fifty seven. The second disappearancethat coincides with many of Kelly's statements is

(16:27):
that of Stephen Kraft, whose nameyou may recognize as one of Israel Key's
name is forty four. As youmight recall, Kelly told investigators about what
was allegedly her first murder sometimes secondmurder, the murder of Dylan Austen,

(16:48):
according to Kelly, which should probablyhave been the title for this entire season.
She met Dylan Austen, a twentythree year old man from Rensselaire,
Indiana, through her friend Tim Kelly. The two were casually dating when she
alleges she murdered him at her parents'house in Hobert during an argument about sex.

(17:08):
In later interviews, she would changeher story to say that the murder
had to do with meth, andin that confession, she claimed to have
killed Dylan in a friend's car nearLake Station, Indiana. What was consistent
in both of her stories about DylanAusten was that her eleven year old cousin
participated in the murder, a cousinwho would die by suicide two years following

(17:33):
the alleged events, and that Dylan'sbody was dumped along a small creek at
Silver Beach in Saint Joseph, Michigan. And you'll remember from episode thirteen that
Silver Beach has no small creek inor near it. Additionally, Ogden looked
into this and confined no one matchingDylan's name or description. He even spoke

(17:57):
to Tim Kay, who wouldn't rememberanyone by that name, nor any one
by Kelly's name. According to Kelly, this murder took place when she was
around sixteen or seventeen. Stephen Craftwas twelve when he disappeared while playing in
his neighborhood less than five miles fromSilver Beach on February fifteenth, two thousand

(18:22):
and one. At some time betweenseven and eight pm. Kelly would have
been eighteen at the time when Stephenwent missing. He was with his family's
two dogs. One of those dogsreturned home alone the night of the disappearance,
and it led Stephen's parents to anearby pond. The second dog,

(18:45):
a puppy, was located the nextday at Blue Creek, a small creek
just a mile and a half northof Stephen's house. The pond was searched
extensively. There's no media reports indicatingthat Blue Creek, however, was ever
searched. So Stephen's location and dateof disappearance line up almost exactly with Kelly's

(19:11):
story about Dylan Austen. It's justthe details of the victim that are different.
And as Kelly told Ogden, everythingI've told you is true, just
not the details. Additionally, betweenthe limited available records and interviews with Kelly
and her mother, Kelly was essentiallyunder full time supervision at New Beginnings,

(19:37):
the facility for Troubled Girls, fromshortly following her sixteenth birthday until just before
her eighteenth birthday in June of twothousand, meaning if she is to be
even partially believed, her alleged murderof Dylan Austen could have only occurred in
nineteen ninety eight or following her releasefrom New Beginning. Stephen Craft disappeared seven

(20:02):
months after Kelly's release, and ifKelly did in fact coerce her young cousin
into participating in such a murder,he would have been the exact same age
as Stephen. And if the allegeddil In Austin murder is actually the murder
of Stephen Kraft, Kelly's cousin wouldhave died by suicide just several months after

(20:23):
Stephen disappeared. My final list isone of time frames, specifically windows surrounding
stays Jason and or Kelly had withmental health facilities. As we've discussed throughout
the season, Kelly had a patternof either admitting herself or convincing Jason to

(20:48):
admit himself to psychiatric facilities, eitherbefore or after, or sometimes both before
and after their commissions of murders,and Kelly has two that can't be closely
linked to any of her known orlikely homicides, one in April of two
thousand and seven and one in Marchof two thousand and eight. And there

(21:11):
disappearances and unsolved homicides that could matchKelly's m O and murder map for each
of those visits, and it shouldalso be noted that the camping trip Colton
took with the Cochranes where he waslikely drugged, occurred in either the spring
of two thousand and seven or twothousand and eight, which also coincides with

(21:33):
these psychiatric stays. Of those twocheckens, the March two thousand and eight
one is of most interest to mebecause there are two unsolved cases that occurred
surrounding that visit that strongly resemble bothKelly's m O and some of her claims.
The first of which is the disappearanceof Rachel Conger, who was very

(21:57):
likely the victim of a murder suicide. She and her estranged and abusive husband,
Paul, disappeared on the same day. Several days later, Paul was
found in the woods near Rachel's home, dead by what appeared to be a
self inflicted gunshot. The only reasonsthis case stuck out to me were that

(22:18):
the couple lived and disappeared from Como, Tennessee, which is less than thirty
miles from Fulton, Kentucky, whereKelly claims Jason killed his first victim sort
of. You may recall that shesaid it was Fulton, Tennessee, but
named a motel that's actually located inFulton, Kentucky, which is on the
Tennessee border. You'll also recall thatKelly said she had victims in Tennessee.

(22:45):
Rachel also had one tattoo that saidLennia Lane, which sounds a lot like
the lockett that Jason supposedly took froma victim with the initials l L engraved
in it. More coincidental, however, is that Rachel had multiple butterfly tattoos.
There are some other eerie coincidences whichactually make me wonder if this was

(23:08):
perhaps a case that Kelly committed tomemory. For more information on the disappearance
of Rachel, I highly recommend checkingout The Vanished Podcasts episode two sixteen.
The second and more relevant case isthe disappearance of Michael Anthony Womack, a

(23:29):
twenty five year old black man whodisappeared from Alton, Illinois, on March
thirty first of two thousand and eight, just a week and a half after
Kelly was released from the psychiatric facility. Little is known about the events precipitating
Michael's disappearance. He was the lastseen at one thirty pm on the day
he went missing. His last outgoingcall on his cell phone pinned six miles

(23:55):
north of his home in Godfrey,Illinois. The police haven't released the time
nor the details of that phone call. Two weeks following his disappearance, Michael's
car was discovered abandoned in a ruralindustrial area of Kahokia, Illinois. Michael's
friends and family can think of noreason he'd be in that town, which

(24:17):
just thirty five miles south of Alton. There was no evidence of foul play
found in or around his vehicle,except that it appeared to have been wiped
completely clean. There wasn't any DNAnor any fingerprints anywhere in his truck.

(24:37):
Michael was engaged with five children andone on the way, and by all
accounts, he lived a normal andhappy life. He was looking forward to
the birth of his first son,a Berth, which occurred less than two
weeks after Michael went missing. Strangely, Michael lived just blocks from the air

(25:00):
Ria. Jared Hannah's phone pinned inAlton on the day of his disappearance.
As for relation to Kelly beyond hisdisappearance, coinciding with a psychiatric stay.
Kelly's list of victims included a NathanHolder, who she allegedly killed in twenty
fifteen. Nathan Holder was from andsupposedly murdered in Belleville, Illinois. Belleville,

(25:26):
Illinois is approximately seven miles from whereMichael's car was abandoned. Kelly claimed
to have taken Holder's baseball cap andwallet as trophies. Michael was wearing a
brown baseball cap on the day ofhis disappearance. Neither it nor his wallet
were ever recovered. It should benoted that, while Kelly claims that the

(25:48):
Cochranes destroyed every car that was everinvolved in any of their crimes, Chris
Reagan's car was found abandoned at apark and ride in a rural area about
six miles from their home. Regan'scar had also been wiped. In addition
to these disappearances, I cannot ruleout the disappearance of John lenn Taylor,

(26:12):
which was detailed in episode thirteen andalso strongly matched various stories from Kelly.
Shortly after Kelly's sentencing, Jeremy Ogdenwent back to being a street cop.

(26:37):
No one pursued this case or itsmany leads more doggedly than Jeremy Ogden and
Laura Frizzo, and both were relievedof their duties during or immediately following the
case, and since local law enforcementdoesn't appear to have done anything to continue
looking into Kelly's crimes or other potentialvictims, despite a broad consensus that Kelly

(27:06):
is most definitely responsible for additional murders. However, while Laura and Jeremy have
both moved on in their careers,they continue to visit Kelly and continue to
push for her to provide more informationregarding her crimes. They've made little progress,

(27:27):
but persist, and Kelly continues tosend them letters, original artwork,
and requests for more visits. Kellynever did respond to my letter, but
three days ago I sent her afollow up. It was short and simple

(27:48):
and to the point, Kelly,I'd love to hear from you. Let's
discuss Andrew Fugate, Jason Ruter,Jared Hannah, and Stephen Kraft. And
while Kelly may not be writing tome, she is a prolific letter writer
these days. She's even sent someoriginal artwork and letters to one listener of

(28:11):
this podcast, and she has twoongoing sexually explicit jail male relationships, one
with a man who seems to haveknown Kelly before her arrest, and another
with an inmate at a different Michiganfacility. Those letters are available on Patreon,

(28:32):
and I would include snippets were theynot so deeply and uncomfortably graphic.
But amid all the sexual talk,Kelly always finds time to ask each of
her suitors for money. Since thisseason of the show began, I received

(28:52):
hundreds of files from various law enforcementagencies, including Iron County, and one
of those files had nothing whatsoever todo with Kelly Cochrane or any of her
victims, so I was surprised itwas included. It was a file on
Laura Frizzo. I've gone back andforth on whether to mention this file because

(29:15):
it doesn't provide any additional insight intoKelly Cochrane or the investigation into her.
However, it does provide insight intothe relationship between Iron River City Manager David
Thayre and Laura Frizzo, and inan effort to provide fair and balanced reporting,
I'll summarize it. It's a fortyseven page collection of correctional records and

(29:41):
statements from people in Iron River allegingvarious incidents involving Laura, from drinking and
driving to bullying, to assault,bathroom brawls, and domestic violence. And
while I'm sure this file was includedin my FOYA response with some intention,

(30:03):
it does provide further insight into thecontention between Frizzo and David and her eventual
firing. Speaking of which, severalmonths ago, David Thayer finally stepped down
as Iron River City manager. Andthis file doesn't negate Thayer's well documented problematic
history nor the excellent work Laura didon the Cochran case. It's a both

(30:32):
and situation. Laura both had aproblematic past and became an excellent investigator.
Thayer was both sexist and abused hispowers, and had a chief of police
who was challenging and challenged his problematicways of working. I like Laura.

(30:55):
She's smart, she's tenacious, she'sstrong, cares. Those are the qualities
I want to see in law enforcement. Those are the qualities that got Kelly
arrested. The qualities exhibited in thefile are not qualities I want to see
in my law enforcement. No oneis singular, no one is all good

(31:21):
or all bad, it's all both, and people are complicated and sexism is
pervasive. It shaped Laura and Kellyin so many ways. Laura had to
constantly fight against it and Kelly Kellyexploited it. Nothing m