March 12, 2025 • 60 mins
Passions swirl and reality bends in Love Circle (1969), the intoxicating tale of desire, deception, and dangerous games from writer/director Giuseppe Patroni Griffi. Also known as Metti, Una Sera a Cena (Suppose One Night at Dinner), this stylish drama follows a celebrated writer, Michele (Jean-Louis Trintignant), who concocts intricate fantasies about his wife Nina (Florinda Bolkan) and his best friend Max (Tony Musante). But what if his imaginings aren’t so imaginary?
Mike White, Spencer Parsons, and David A. Heath dissect this sultry, surreal web of passion, joined by Andrei Idu, who requested the film as part of our month of Patreon picks. With a screenplay co-written by Dario Argento and an unforgettable score by Ennio Morricone, Love Circle is a hypnotic blend of psychosexual intrigue and high-art aesthetics.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-projection-booth-podcast--5513239/support.
Become a supporter of The Projection Booth at http://www.patreon.com/projectionbooth
Mike White, Spencer Parsons, and David A. Heath dissect this sultry, surreal web of passion, joined by Andrei Idu, who requested the film as part of our month of Patreon picks. With a screenplay co-written by Dario Argento and an unforgettable score by Ennio Morricone, Love Circle is a hypnotic blend of psychosexual intrigue and high-art aesthetics.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-projection-booth-podcast--5513239/support.
Become a supporter of The Projection Booth at http://www.patreon.com/projectionbooth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh he is Bote.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's showtime.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People pay good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in
the protection booth.
Speaker 5 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Cut it off, turn it.
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Off, Nina m Max no right.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Or let to l le Massy medi now legy Lemassi
the la prima I can't be laid there. Miche gene
gin No.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
Miami Americano, Michael stop lultimasters depas mon Moviemento mondiale almost.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
As well, Ky Michael Stophon philosopher. Yeah, you know, you
know I can understand. Mas Jack.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
The Ves.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host.
Speaker 8 (02:50):
Mike White joined me once again as mister Spencer persons Hello,
also joining us as mister David A.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Heath.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 8 (02:58):
We are continuing a month of Patreon requests with one
from Andre du We recently had him on for our
weekend episode with our nineteen sixty nine film from writer
director Giuseppe Petroni Griffi, who also wrote the play and
was joined by Daria Argento to write the screenplay for
Love Circle, also known as Metti Juna sera accena or
(03:21):
suppose one Night at Dinner. The film stars Jean Luis
Trentigne as Michelle, every known writer who spins elaborate fantasies
about an affair between his wife Nina played by Florinda
Volcan and his best friend, a charismatic bisexual actor Max
played by Tony Mussante. What he doesn't realize is that
their relationship isn't just a figment of his imagination. It's
(03:44):
been a reality for years. But the deception runs even deeper.
The couple also are entangled with a fourth player, actually
a fifth player too, but we'll talk about the fourth
one for now, an enigmatic anarchist poet Jigglow named Rick
Seeleno Capolicio, who resides in a decayed basement and shares
(04:05):
feverish encounters with Bulkan beneath the shadow of a Nazi schwastika.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We will be.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
Spoiling the movie as we go along, so I we
do want anything ruined, please go ahead and turn off
the podcast and come back after you've tracked down the film.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It is out there.
Speaker 8 (04:20):
Spencer, When was the first time you saw Love Circle
and what did you think The.
Speaker 9 (04:24):
First time I saw A Love Circle was last night,
and I really love this movie.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's a crazy one. I guess I'm an easy win.
Speaker 9 (04:33):
Once you get this cinematographer to Nino della Colli going
with Annio Morricone, those images and those sounds come together
and pretty much anything is going to keep me pretty happy.
But I really it's not one that I knew about
at all, and it seems like it's actually pretty hard
to get a hold of. I've seen one other film
by this director, Griefy Identicit, which is also a big
(04:57):
favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I really that's probably my.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
Favorite Elizabeth Taylor movie ever when I first saw Identicate.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The cinematography in that one is also.
Speaker 9 (05:08):
Really beautiful, and it's by Vittorio Serrao and is admittedly
a step up from the cinematography in this movie, but
very similar kinds of strategies where I really think that
Griefi is a visual stylist who works really well with
the best cinematographers in Italy. Deli Coley worked on a
(05:28):
lot of my favorite films, a bunch of Pasolini, Rossollini,
Lin old Vert, Mueller, Boloccio. The list goes on Sergia Leoni,
Fellini really like a legendary kind of figure. The story,
as is the case with a lot of Italian movies
from this period, is sketchier. But I was really surprised
and delighted by it, and I knew nothing.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I really knew nothing going in, which I think is
a good way to see this film.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
And David, how about yourself, I don't have the same feelings.
I feel like this was perverted Barney episode I love her,
she loves him, He loves her, he loves the other hymn.
I will agree, though, that the trimmings were good on
this film. As far as the Maricone music is almost
(06:16):
as good as anything I think I've heard that wasn't
in a Surgery of Leone film. I was very impressed
with the soundtrack, which of course you expected to be
from Marcone, but he was just on fire with this.
The music fit the film perfectly. Unfortunately, I just had
problems with the meat of the film, and I just
(06:38):
felt like the premise of how exciting that this could
possibly be. I felt like it was toned down a lot,
and I don't know, I just wasn't totally followed by
anything except the music and the cinematography is very fantastic.
(07:00):
It's very claustrophobic. I felt like the first fifteen minutes
was actually quite good and setting up for something great. Ultimately,
my favorite part, I'm not gonna lie was Florinda a
Bulkan when she winded herself off of the plural toy
or what are those mets? What do they call those mattresses? Yeah,
(07:22):
when she prailed off of the raft. That was actually
the most exciting moment besides just listening to the Marcone soundtrack.
I do find that the title love Circle definitely fits
because it wasn't a love triangle at all. It was
a circle. And I think that one other highlight would
be the or two other right, it would be the
(07:42):
conversations at dinner. Those were fun, but ultimately I just
felt he was trying to go for something and he
just didn't go near all the way, if any of
that makes sense. I didn't hate it, but I definitely
didn't love it. Those are my initiate takes.
Speaker 8 (08:02):
Yeah, I think I'm somewhere in the middle there. I
definitely found it a little perplexing, but I think part
of that is because I've talked about Franco Arcolli before
the editor of this film, and he does a great
job when it comes to circular storytelling and just the
way that he will play things off of each other.
(08:24):
We've talked about him on the Djengo Kill If You
Live Shoot episode. We talked a little bit about him
and his work on Death Laid an Egg, things like
The Conformists. I think he really helps make The Conformist
the movie that it is because of the nonlinear storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
He worked a.
Speaker 8 (08:42):
Few times with Griffy. A few times he did this
one 'tis a pity, She's a whore. I'm not sure
what else he did with them, but yet it's an
interesting way of cutting it because it's definitely it moves
back and forth, I think in time, but definitely in location.
There's a lot of times where Trenton Ye will be
(09:04):
telling a story and we'll basically transport the audience to
that story, and we're not exactly sure if they're real
stories or if they're lies, if they're just things that
he's making up on the spot. Because it comes out
pretty early in the movie he says, talking to his
best friend.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So I'm writing this news story.
Speaker 8 (09:23):
You wouldn't like it as a comedy and as a
comedy about man whose wife is cheating on him with
his best friend. And then from there he starts to
spin out these stories like say, the man was away
and the wife got very lonely and went to see
the friend at the theater and then boom cut to
the friend Max at the theater and I don't know
(09:46):
if that's Nina that's supposed to be with him, but
I think they meet up later and there's some kind
of horse in around and stuff, and they're just like, Okay,
is this really the way that it happened or is
this just a figment of Michelle Jean Louis Twintinier's imagination.
And I love the way that we'll just slide into
(10:06):
like a character will walk into a fantasy sequence almost
and it's just like, okay, this is interesting. I like
that kind of stuff. I just don't know if I
needed two hours and two minutes of it, because it
just seems to go on for quite a while, and
after after about an hour or so, I was just like,
wait a second, who is this person again? I just
(10:28):
felt like it felt like like Giuseppa gets introduced at
one point, who is another friend of theirs, but then
they I think they were talking about her beforehand. It's just, oh,
you should get you Zeppa pregnant and then leave her.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And it's like, it.
Speaker 8 (10:42):
Strikes you about Max that he should get this woman
pregnant and then abandon her, and it's I don't know
exactly what's going on, but that's one of those dinner
conversations that you're talking about. And the beautiful cinematography, especially
the colors in front of their faces, the way the
camera's kind of zipping around and flipping back and forth
between these people is really elegantly shot and very well
(11:04):
put together. I just don't know if I was as
compelled by the material as I should have been.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
I agree that it's too long, but I am actually
compelled by a lot of what's going on and the
story of the sort of meta levels and the slipperiness
of what might be the writer's imagination versus reality, and
that the movie, especially because it's got this cinematography that's
like constantly moving and circling in an editorial style that
(11:32):
blends together locations, and even some great camera tricks and
staging tricks where a scene will start out with three
characters talking and in the midst of it, two of
them have completely disappeared, and you realize over the course
of a long take that we've gone from a fantasy
into reality.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But it doesn't always give cues for that.
Speaker 9 (11:55):
And I guess I'm an easier win for that kind
of a thing than you guys are. And I think
it also speaks to a lot of very indebted to Pirandello,
and even put some Pirandello right in the movie at
one point. And so this play of reality versus fiction,
the reality of fiction. And then I will say that
(12:18):
just as a character, I felt so bad for Rick
throughout this literally poor but obviously also artistically engaged boy
toy for these rich people.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And he's a compelling sort of character.
Speaker 9 (12:32):
And at one point one of the characters I forget
who says he's the only one of us who is
who he is. And there's something very interesting about that,
given his particular position, because there's also that sort of
sense that the jiggolow the sex worker has to put
on love and is acting and there's fiction going on
(12:53):
while other facts are also happening. The sense that he
could be the most authentic of all of them is interesting.
I'll also say where it ends up. And the philosophical
stuff that they chew on throughout for me is like
anti winter Light. It's as confronted by imminent nuclear holocaust.
(13:14):
Their notion is let's just get together and we're all
gonna fuck. There is something about that time and place
and that kind of response. As much as it's like
a bunch of boogie people, I find to be a
compelling and less expected sort of reaction to things. The
libertinism under the circumstances, I think is a kind of
(13:37):
an interesting social position to examine.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I get all what you're saying, and I think that
you're bringing some solid points to it. I think I'm
like Mike though, or to just like feel like overall
the meat wasn't wasn't enough. And I can also say
that he watched another production by him called The Divine Nymph.
It was almost a replica of this one with Terrence Stamp,
(14:04):
and it is so annoying because it's Terence Stamp. What's
not Arren Stampswice. That drove me crazy. But anyway, The
Divine Nymph was actually probably less meaty this one, and
I do think one of the interesting things about it
is there's an underlying concept here of be careful when
(14:26):
your feelings get involved. I feel like the film is
a bit of a cautionary tale, Like Bob and Carrold
Ted and Alice spoiler alert. At the end, they're like,
is this really what we should be doing?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I don't feel right about this. There's something about when
you have all this circling like that's going on, somebody's
bound to have some hurt feeling. And I think there
is an underlying concept there. And if you watch The
Divine Nymph, which I would suggest for you, Spencer, because
if you love this, you'll at least like the Divine nim. Yeah,
I think that there's a somewhat of a cautionary tale
(14:59):
in there, a little bit of morality. What looks on
the service to be a completely depraved film.
Speaker 9 (15:06):
Well, there's a really nice line in the last scene
that works in two ways that they talk about the
table and the round table, and even before this scene
there's a reference to King Arthur, and of course, given
the intertwined natures, you can't help but think of Arthur
and Lancelot and Gwenevere. But Michelle Jean Jean Tritagnan. He
(15:30):
man my French teacher's mad at me right now. He
at one point says, it's not a table, it's a raft.
And I think this plays in a couple of ways.
One this idea that really develops of the course of
that particular scene, that this is a life raft in
a world where they are perceiving, whether they're correct or not,
apocalyptic forebodings, that they're taking this as a life raft.
(15:51):
But it also visually takes me back to that incredible
scene of Florinda Bocan on the raft, which is so
beautifully shot. I do think it's also worth talking about
the eroticism in the film, because it isn't just a
matter that these folks are hooking up.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And I think there's.
Speaker 9 (16:08):
Some interesting careful qualities about this because there's the eroticism.
There's maybe less skin in this than other Italian movies
and especially like Italian exploitation movies of the period, But
the way that the sex is photographed and dramatized by
following hands, for instance.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Is incredibly hot.
Speaker 9 (16:30):
It's a much hotter movie than it should be, considering
even like mores of the time. And I do wonder
if one of the reasons for that is because it
was perceived at the time as scandalous enough. It says
that these dudes do have sex at pivot point in
the film, the menage atois, but it really dances around
it very carefully, and I think actually remains pretty hot
(16:54):
while doing that. I'm actually impressed how much it works
at that point in the film. Also in that I
really think Tony Mussante's performance I don't quite buy him
as fully bisexual.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
His performance and the way that things have staged for him,
and this I think actually works within the film.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
But I find this anapsis of the film really funny
when it describes him as bisexual, because I think, I
don't know, his sexuality seems a lot more like he's
maybe there to watch or something. He does not feel
fully comfortable, And I don't think that's necessarily bad. I
think that's actually like interesting in the mix, but maybe
not totally intentional. But I do think that the movie
(17:34):
holds back just a little bit in order to get
away with its big you know, the big guns of
its provocation, which at the time were difficult and even
now like in the Year of Challengers, which I found
to be pretty chaste. Actually, I was very surprised at that,
and it is so I think even now there's a
bit of a third rail that certainly back at the
(17:56):
time that this was made, is in play.
Speaker 8 (17:59):
What's funny because Griffy's previous film that he wrote from
sixty two wrote and directed, because he wrote quite a bit.
I mentioned before, he's a playwright as well, so he
had a bunch of stuff that was changed from plays
to movies. The one that he directed before this was
from sixty two. It is called El Mar and there's
(18:20):
a bisexual relationship in that one as well. And I
agree with you that really I don't feel that Max
is that bisexual, but yeah, he definitely seems to be
down to watch what's going on. It reminded me a
little bit of Radley Metzger and Radley Metzger's score with
the whole bisexuality and these multiple couples and stuff, because really,
(18:40):
at the end of the day, you've got like the
five people, and you talked about there's really the one
outsider with Rick who doesn't match that when it comes
to their social standing or any of that stuff. I
kept thinking that Rick was going to go on some
sort of rampage at the end of this and chill everyone,
just because he seems so unhinged. I's got Oh I'm
(19:01):
so cold in this apartment. Oh here, take this Nazi
flag and wrap yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
In it and I'll keep you war.
Speaker 8 (19:08):
Could we get more provocative than a Nazi flag for
you to wrap yourself in.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's very strong imagery.
Speaker 8 (19:14):
His whole apartment set is very interesting, especially we've got
him firing that gun that I guess it's a picture of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Her in the opening scene.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yes, oh yeah, and yeah, the.
Speaker 8 (19:25):
Whole thing of her try and find the apartment or
going to the apartment. You've got the more conic score
going during the credits and everything. It was really striking,
and there are many moments in this film that are
equally striking to this. And yeah, it's interesting too because
when you're seeing them together, you're like, is this the future?
Is this the past? Because they're cutting away from that
(19:46):
and cutting to her, and then they'll cut back to it,
and we're getting more information about the relationships than they're
even talking about. We obviously start to see the whole
setup of the lover's triangle, but then we start seeing
oh no, there's a fourth point. Oh no, there's actually
a fifth point to this, and like you said, it's
much more of a rounded thing. And I think the
(20:07):
whole idea of them going to a boxing match where
you've got the squared circle is pretty telling as well.
And I'd like these metaphors that are going on. I'm
always curious when it comes to plays that have been
turned into movies, do they lose the play feel to it.
There are certain movies where you're just like, oh my god,
this was such a play, like Six Degrees of Separation.
(20:28):
You're just like, all the actors are talking to the
back row, and you're just like, this is a movie.
You can do a little bit smaller than this. And
then there are other movies, even with big performances like
Jack Nicholson, like A Few Good Men, where you're like.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh no, this was a movie.
Speaker 8 (20:43):
Yes, it was based on a play, obviously a courtroom drama,
but I really feel like they did a good job
taking it out of the theater and putting it into
the movie theater.
Speaker 9 (20:53):
Yeah, And that's where the style of cinematography I think
is really key, because the performances are off kind of
screechy in the film, but they fit together with this
kind of florid camera work that keeps moving around them
and dancing with them, so that in particular, Bolkhan is
she's beautiful, just like throwing her hair around all over
(21:17):
this movie as the camera follows her through a room
and she's got to.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yell at people.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
But yeah, so there is there's like a there's a
certain theatricality that stays, but the cinematic form and all
the beautiful locations and the intense arc direction and everything
also really contribute to a feeling of it's the heightened
quality is more cinematic than theatrical.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
I definitely was seen that during that boxing match scene
where they do a really good job of making the
crowd around them seem much bigger than it needed to be,
because generally when you do, oh, here's the people at
the boxing match, and obviously they weren't at the boxing match.
But with that, it's like you see her stand up
and leave and you're like, oh, that actually looks like
(22:03):
the actress is leaving. You can see that they were
actually in the location at some point, and then when
they come back to them, they're having their conversation. During
this fight, they have a lot of people behind them.
It's not just like two three people or just the knees.
You get the stands and everything, so you can barely
see the people that are behind them.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
But it's oh no, this.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
Is actually like a pretty good crowd around them, and
the crowd is doing some really good acting as far
as reacting to that fight, and I'm like, oh, okay,
this actually seems very legit.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
I forget whether it was Max or Mikkel. I feel
like I'm gonna be wrong whichever one I commit to.
Walks out of the scene, and the camera follows them
through a lot of space out of the arena and
then also down the hall and everything.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
The way that.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
It's conceiving of the space constantly keeps giving us a
lot of atmosphere and psychological quality. As I'm seeing this
guy walk out and around and when I can't remember
which of the characters it was, it's partly because of
the I think, a semi deliberate confusion. Maybe it's not
(23:07):
all deliberate confusion, but as semi deliberate confusion that's being
created that sort of conflates these people into each other.
But the yeah, the act of following opens up a
kind of psychological space for the character and the relationships,
and that comes at a cost when you're doing a
big crowd scene. That's, I got to say, pretty expensive
(23:29):
shot for a movie that's based on a play that
basically has five main characters who end up all around
a dinner table at the end.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But yeah, I gotta say hooray for cinema.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
This is one of those movies that reminds you not
everything has to be Hollywood. Will you watch it? Then?
I my own podcast, I talk about movies of all kinds,
and sometimes when I go out and left field that
people don't listen to the show what to leave you
when they hear a movie all I've seen that movie
a hundred times, all of some of that. But this
(24:01):
is one of those films though that like I said,
I think everything that Spencer is saying I agree with.
I almost want to watch it again now after banning it.
But all of that is true what you say, Spencer.
The shots in this film are really good. I think
if the script was buttoned up a little bit, and
(24:22):
I think it had less fat on the bone, I would.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Have enjoyed it a lot more.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I truly did.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well.
Speaker 9 (24:28):
You mentioned this script, and this leads to Dario Argento's
participation in the movie. He worked on adapting the script
from a play into a screenplay, and I don't want
to overdo it in terms of maybe this was just
a I was not able to determine how much of
an exciting project this was for Argento, but some there
(24:52):
are some real connections to argento work that I found
in this, So it seems like at the least, if
it was just a job of work, he was right
guy for the job, because there are a lot of
interesting jallo and horror kind of elements that don't pay
off in that particular way. And the premise is actually
similar to some Argento premises, particularly Tenebre, where you've got
(25:17):
the author of a book full of these murders that
then the murders start to occur in real life. That
kind of reality and fiction and art and life a
kind of mixture coming in. So I think Argento is
definitely vibing on that kind of material. And then also
I think the director, as far as briefly, as far
as I could find out, I think he's either gay
(25:39):
or bisexual and definitely wrote a lot of important kind
of queer stuff but there's also a lot of queerness
in argento films under the surface, and again back to Tenebre,
that's one where there's some real sexual fantasies that are
I don't even know if homo erotic is quite right,
but definitely queer and touching on the home erotic. And
(26:00):
Argento often has gay characters in the background in a
lot of interesting ways.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So I guess there's two prongs.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
There's the Argento connection and then did you guys get
anything out of the sense of connection with the queer
side of Argento's work at all.
Speaker 8 (26:17):
I don't know Argento's work as well as I would like.
I am fascinated by these movies that he was writing
before he became a director, and obviously I'm a huge
fan of Once upon a Time in the West, But
then things even like Cemetery without Crosses or five man Army,
and so this is very interesting because he was more
of a He's very similar to your Gradar, your Truffaus.
(26:40):
As far as I know, he was a film critic
first and I moved into screenwriting and then eventually becomes
a director's writer director. But yeah, I'm just I've only
seen a handful of Argento, probably the ones that we've
covered on the show, which is maybe three or four,
so not a ton.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
I have a lot of experience with those either. But
I will say that I felt like this film spent
the entire time except at the dinner table, maybe on
the perimeter of subjects, and didn't actually open the door
and walk in. That's something that I did feel. The
dinner table scenes were pretty great. Ultimately, I just think
if this film were hour and twenty seven minutes, I
(27:22):
probably would have loved it. But it was just an
awful lot to get to those really good, needy scenes,
And to be fair, that's the way almost every film
today is made with the thirty minutes too long.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
This is one where I really wish I could see
it on a big screen. I have suspicions that obviously,
and I'll fess up. The audio visual quality of just
pictures and sounds going together is like my primary a
source of pleasure in the movie. I really wonder if
maybe it would still be too long, but it might
(27:57):
not be quite as much too long were I seeing
this in a theater and was really able to be
a watch in it. We also watched on a pretty
I will say low grade transfer. And this is really
making me if any boutique labels out there are listening
right now, I think this would really be an excellent
title to restore and give a proper transfer if there
(28:21):
are in fact decent elements still out there. When I
looked around, I found and have already bought a DVD,
but this one really seems to me like a worthy
project for a proper restoration and transfer. So I don't know,
Vinegar Syndrome or somebody, if you're listening to check this out.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
Was that the Raal video version, and I think that
might be the source of what we watched.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't know, it seemed to be well.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
I found a few different versions of this one with
hard coded Spanish subs, which I thank you yea, which
really challenged my Spanish. Am I Italian because I took
both of those. I took Spanish in high school and
Italian in college, so that was interesting and also to
see because I found English subtitles, so the English subtitles
would run over the Spanish ones, but then I'm like, oh,
(29:14):
they just said bourgeois, but then they're saying middle class
and the English subtitle anyway, there was a different version
that I also watched, which every couple reels it would
go to color bars and that horrible noise that was
going and I'm like, oh, this is rough, and then
(29:34):
it would go back to it. But thank goodness, whoever
put the subtitles on that had it timed correctly so
that after that break it would come back into sync.
I did find one that's fairly decent with burned in
English subtitles, which is the one that I've got going
right now while we're talking about this, But still the
quality isn't as good as I would like.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I agree with you.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
If there was a beautiful print of this, I could
really see myself starting to like this a lot more.
And yeah, had I seen this at the theater, because
that's the one thing I've always said on the show too,
where it's I can handle longer movies when I'm at
a movie theater than I can at home, just because
there's so many temptations of getting distracted at home, versus
when you're in a movie theater, you're locked in. I'm
(30:19):
here for this. I'm here for this only, and other
than the occasional Terrence Malick.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Film, I don't get bored with longer films.
Speaker 9 (30:28):
I think with a movie like this, the social part
of it could be pretty interesting as well. How are
people reacting as this goes on, even if it's dated.
It's sort of libertine, a kind of quality of the
characters and the storytelling. The way the characters think of
each other, think of marriage, think of sex is still abrasive,
(30:51):
and I hope we'll always be abrasive because these are
not necessarily very likable people, and what they're on about
is somebody is going to get hurt, and they seem
not to care enough about how someone will get hurt.
And in particular Rick, the lower class Jigglow, he's the
one who consistently gets the most hurt, even if he
(31:13):
also wraps himself up in the cold with this whole
Nazi flag. That's also something about the film that I
find interesting. I wonder about reactions in a crowd. I
don't know that I can ever clock what that Nazi
flag is really supposed to quote unquote mean.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But I'd be interested to be.
Speaker 9 (31:32):
In an audience where we all have to feel our
way through that, because I don't know that it necessarily
has a meaning.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
If he saw it at the movie theater. Your parents
were probably alive during World War Two. That's just jarring
to me in the opening scene. Yeah, I just it's
just jarring. Where did that come from and why is
it here? I don't understand.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
Yeah, I don't know if it's supposed to be that
he's some sort of edge lord or something, or what
his deal is, because I think describe me as an anarchist.
At one point, I'm like, let's you wouldn't add and
adhere to Nazi belis if you're an anarchist. But maybe
it was just some sort of big misunderstanding. Maybe it
was supposed to be some sort of symbol of love
that got horribly mistranslated by the miss mainstream media.
Speaker 9 (32:16):
I take his possession of the object as ironic and
in that way, maybe a little bit edge lordy. But
I'm not so I can follow what it's supposed to
mean with the character. But in the world of the film,
this is a group of such nihilistic people. No, I
don't think it's saying that they're Nazis. That does not
seem to be what the movie is about. But at
(32:38):
the same time, it's an obvious, big loaded symbol that
comes up repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It gets used dramatically in the scene I love.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
This is my favorite scene in the movie, probably the
scene where he hangs himself on the set of the
play that they're part of, and bo Khan she has
to go in and get him down before he dies.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And the way that it revealed who it is and.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
What's going on is we see his feet hanging and
then the flag, the red of the flag drops into
the frame.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So it's being used in these really interesting ways.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
And then that scene, I have to say, as much
as I really don't, I like Rick, but I don't
like these other characters very much, and I like Rick.
The Nazi flag notwithstanding, this is a gross thing for
him around to have around, but he's a more likable character.
But as he takes a breath and kind of comes
back to life, it's this nice little bit of traditional melodrama,
(33:32):
really wanting for him not to die and to see
what's going to happen between him and Nina over the
rest of the film.
Speaker 8 (33:39):
Yeah, you talk about how they're unpleasant people, and they
are this whole It's like they talk about each other
like they're pieces of meat or game pieces, and it's
just like, oh, you should be with Guzeppa, No it
should be you, or no you should do this, and
like throwing people at each other and just yeah, it
feels very much like they're I like that the boor
(34:00):
upper class kind of thing, where it's just how can
we spice this up? I'm gonna start this affair. I'm
going to have this happen, or you should start an affair.
You should, like I said before, you should get this
woman pregnant and then abandon ear. It's what the hell
are you guys on about? And they just seem to
just be so up their own asses so much, and yeah,
Rick seems to be the only genuine character. And then
(34:22):
I was talking before about how confusing sometimes this is
because we are going back and forth and we're jumping locations,
and it's just we're at this dinner table and now boom,
we're in a car, and now we're over here, and
now we're over there. Then you come to the play
section of the movie, like you're talking about with the
last part, and then it suddenly becomes wait are we
watching the play? Are we watching the real thing? What's
(34:42):
happening here? Reminded me a little bit of some of
the Cassavetti's works that I guess Opening Night where it's
just is this the movie that they're shooting? Is this
the play that they're in? What part of this world
am I looking at? Opening Night has that kind of
horror overtone to it, And there were times where I
was just like, I wonder, what's going to happen here?
Because I just, like I said, I kept feeling like
(35:03):
something bad was going to happen, or like we're committing
suicide is a bad thing, but here I thought he
was just going to go nuts and kill all these people.
But as far as I know, he does not do that,
and it just makes it mix. It very tense through
the whole thing, which I feel that the maintains throughout
this whole movie.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I would definitely agree that tension is pretty high. And
then Rick is again.
Speaker 9 (35:27):
It's interesting, there's that sense that he could kill off everybody.
This is actually interesting because in recent years we've had
our own run of let's make fun of the bourgeoisie
movies like Triangle of Sadness and The Menu and these
that kind of have this eat the rich ethos. That
is fun to begin with, But I've got to say that,
(35:48):
especially as I see more and more of these movies,
like one of them, I can go, oh, yeah, a hah, funny,
But after I see a whole bunch of them, do
you not want.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
A better world? Do you just want to bring other
people down?
Speaker 9 (36:00):
Are we settling for tormenting and murdering our tormentors and murderers?
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Is that really the best that we can expect?
Speaker 9 (36:07):
And there's something about this movie that does similar kind
of stuff and playing around with ideas of the bourgeois,
and that's not uncommon for art movies of this period,
but I feel like there's something a lot more interesting
going on to make us fit with them, and to
whatever degree can we empathize or sympathize, and then to
(36:28):
what degree can we observe and draw a larger philosophical
sense of how the world works from their behavior.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
And it's interesting too that this was nineteen sixty nine
that this movie came out, and I did a whole
series a couple of years ago of just movies from
nineteen sixty nine and how the world was in such turmoil,
and this movie also seems to plug into it. It's
looking at something that's a little different than student riots
(36:57):
and things. But I could see Rick joining those riots.
I could see Rick eventually maybe I should join the
Red Brigade. I'm not exactly sure here what should I do.
But this is endemic of those things that were going
on in the rest of the world and just oh yeah, no,
this is how this upper strata of Italian society is
(37:17):
working and operating. And these people are assholes, and yeah,
it's okay to make fun of them. But to your point,
I agree about those kind of more recent wave of
let's talk about influencers and let's talk about how vapid
they are and it's okay, yeah, that's like a couple jokes,
but we're gonna have it out for ninety five minutes.
I enjoyed the menu. I think I enjoyed that more
(37:40):
than Triangle of Sadness. I think, but I guess I
take that back because I didn't realize that there was
the second half of Triangle of Sadness when I was
watching it. I thought it was all going to be
on the boat. Once they get off the boat, that's
when I found it interesting.
Speaker 9 (37:55):
And thinking about those current movies that are about bringing
the rich down to the level of the people who
they're tormenting. This has a kind of provocative question of
what is it for Rick to get to sit at
the table with them.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
That's a very good point. Yeah, and Rick is basically
yeah he did. Yeah, he just feels left out in
the cold. And I think one of the things, going
to one of Spencer's points is that often in these
type of films it's a female that is in that
position and not a man. Often it happens that way.
(38:33):
But I wanted to bring up one of the things
I didn't want to forget. As impressive as this score is,
I think equally as impressive are the silent moments. There
are moments where the film just dead silence for where
you can just cut an eye through it, and I
wanted to make sure to bring that up. I know
that kind of gear shifts us away from what we
(38:55):
were talking about, but I wanted to bring that up
because I just felt like that is an aspect of
this film that utilize that that start and stop music
so effectively.
Speaker 8 (39:05):
It's not just a men's story. It's not just Griffy
saying oh yeah, I'm the Trintonnier character and look at
how important I am, or something like that it feels
very much like the Giuseppe seems a little like I said,
she doesn't even come in until almost a half an
hour into the movie, so they talk about her beforehand,
(39:26):
and then she eventually shows up. It always feels like
she's on the outs as well, even though she seems
to travel in the same circles. But I would have
to say that the wife is just as important as
the two men. She really has agency. It's not just
these two men are struggling and eventually there's a third
man that comes in kind of thing. No, it's very
much the three main people, and then like Giuseppa and Rick,
(39:51):
especially Rick on the outside.
Speaker 9 (39:52):
For me, David, your point about the sound in the
way that the music comes in and out is not
off from the topic really, because the music is really
used in a formal fashion to help sell these moments
of connection and disconnection between the people and the moments
of silence between them can be pregnant and thrilling and exciting.
(40:15):
But then also any almricone will come in. The music
is very edited here, it's not there's a certain amount
that feels scored to the movie.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But I will say from my own experience in the
editing room. I love this kind of use of music.
Speaker 9 (40:28):
There's a lot of scoring that gets used in a
very editorial way where it's will suddenly be bringing it
in and then we'll cut you off just as we
feel like we're getting going with the score again. That
is I think really beautifully done. And there's also like
a kind of circular pattern to the way that it's
(40:49):
composed that really brings us back. It's funny that the
original title is not love circle at all, but that
round table is suggesting things for as well in creating
this kind of circular pattern that's a little bit like
a Ballero sort of thing. The characters in their attractions,
have you.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
Guys seined the Maricone documentary that was released years ago,
A few years ago, No, I need to Well, it's
so worth it. He was eighty years old before he
realized how loved he was. When he received an honorary
Academy award, his dad beating down pretty bad verbally with well,
(41:29):
you're not making earal music. This is just commercial stuff.
And he really he didn't go to his grave thankfully
believing that. But he was a very old man by
the time he realized that he was beloved, and I
don't think anyone can discount what he did for the
film industry because he was unique. And it's a terrible
word to use most of the time, because unique means
(41:51):
there's only one or only one of a kind, and
he is unique. John Williams is not unique. There are
other people that can do John Williams type stuff. But
then you know, Maracone is one of a kind and
we never had anyone that was like him. And I
think that my initial takeaway from the first few moments.
(42:13):
I was really into this film for the first few
months because of the cluster phobic feeling that I was giving,
and then that wonderful music, and I think I actually
turned it on before I really before I looked at
the Wikipedia or whatever to see who did the music.
I said, that's really good. That sounds Maracone, and sure,
(42:33):
uh as Maracone. And usually I'm five minutes deep in
a movie before I start doing any research in it.
But I love the music. I can appreciate the fact
that it was probably was heavily edited, but I also
like those the stoppages of the music, and all of
a sudden, one thing from these people in the film.
You see a lot of acting with eyes, and when
(42:56):
people act with their eyes, that's really that's powerful stuff,
and not everybody can do that. And do you watch
your average oh, I don't know, Family Disney Live action production.
You're gonna see people mailing in performances well that kind
of thing, but you don't see people really into what
(43:17):
they're doing. And these people acting in this film were
really into what they were doing, and that's something that
I can deeply appreciate.
Speaker 8 (43:25):
Speaking of the score, I like when Morcone employees whistling.
I think that was always something that I liked when
he would do, especially during the spaghetti westerns, but there's
some good whistling in this one as well. And I
think he worked with the same whistler very often because
they got along and then whistler could keep up with them.
Going back to the whole circular thing too, I think
(43:45):
the camera work really emphasizes that whenever they are around
that table, because the camera, like I said before, was
whipping between the people. But there's a lot of movement
going around those tables. There's some really good camera moves.
I remember there was one shot of you Sepa where
the camera just backs away from her and it's just
the camera. Sometimes it's towards the end, I think it's
(44:07):
very here's a close up, here's a close up.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Here's a close up.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
But until maybe ninety minutes into the film, whenever they're
at a table, you really get that sense of motion
and going around. Like the opening scene of Roseanne, that's
what I heard inspired Tarantino with the camera work around
the table at reservoir Dogs. Yes, yes, oh that's crazy.
I could a godar but he said Roseannes.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
Tarantino thing to say, wherever you get it from.
Speaker 9 (44:33):
Yeah, but I could wax rhapsodic about this camera work
all night. I do really think that the sense uneasy,
constant movement. It's funny because plot wise, one of the
things is this guy is laying out his plot as
a comedy, and of course this movie that's outside of
the play within the play, doesn't have to be a comedy.
(44:53):
But it's really far from being a comedy in that
it's far more built for unease and worry and whatnot.
The camera prowls and it zooms. They're actually a couple
of really masterful zoom outs in the movie to reveal
something that's going on that are in the zip code
of those beautiful Barry Linden zoom outs that reveal more
(45:16):
and more.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
This is very different from Barry Linden.
Speaker 9 (45:18):
It's revealing more plot and character, skullduggery and whatnot, whereas
Barry Linden is constantly revealing more the larger, corrupt world.
But yeah, just really beautiful control. In relationship to the
Maricone music, a lot of Italian film score music has
become available and pops up online now repeated experience, because
(45:42):
I love the Italian film scores of the sixties and seventies.
It's really become some of my favorite music, not just
film score music, and I've become familiar with a lot
of these films before I can ever track them down.
I've actually heard this particular Maricone score before because it's
been out there.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
But Moricone and the kind of scene.
Speaker 9 (46:03):
Around him is also he was quite a mentor to
a lot of other great composers. So if you're hearing
this and you can't track down the movie, do track
down the music. It's out there and it's great, just
fantastic to listen to.
Speaker 8 (46:17):
Going back to what you were talking about with our gento,
I'm guessing maybe Argento was on the set at some
point because Tony Messante would end up showing up in
Berwick Crystal Plumage, which came out the next year.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (46:30):
He's absolutely fantastic in that I wanted to. I was
talking about my Italian teacher, possibly before we began, but
I didn't realize that I had seen Lino Cappolicio before,
because my teacher showed us the Garden of Fitzencotinas all
those years ago. He's one of the main characters. And
(46:52):
I didn't realize that we had talked about the lady
that played Giuseppa Annie Giredo. She is the incredible mother
from The Piano Teacher. Holy shit, is she amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
In that I did not Oh, man, I did not
know that.
Speaker 9 (47:09):
Rate.
Speaker 8 (47:09):
Yeah, she was also in Hidden or Cachet, the other
Hannicke film, but yeah, the long, long career, and yeah,
I did not recognize her. And she just, oh, she's
so good, just such a wonderful villain in The Piano Teacher.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Man, this movie is really stacked.
Speaker 9 (47:29):
That also, I don't know you can have movies that
are stacked that get lost. I do find the way
that this one is really not very available to be
so strange given all the different figures involved. God, I
hope that the negative still exists, or that there's a
decent innernegative or interpositive or something out there to restore
(47:53):
from any kind of decent print or prints, because it
could be really beautiful on a blu ray or four K.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I would put it on in a theater in a
second if I could.
Speaker 8 (48:04):
This is one of those movies where I feel like,
now after having had this discussion, I feel a lot
more connected with it, and I'm just really glad we
had this conversation because as of the first time I
watch it, I was just like, oh my god, what
a slog this thing was.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
But even though I still feel it's.
Speaker 8 (48:22):
A little long in the tooth, I really do appreciate
what this was going for. And I'm really glad that
Andrea picked this one because I was a little hesitant.
I mentioned that he had picked out Weekend. I was
really dreading talking about Weekend, but had a great conversation
and then same thing here with you guys talking about
this movie. I'm just like, Okay, yeah, now I feel
much more at ease with this film, And to your point,
(48:45):
I think I would definitely check this out again. I
feel now that I really want to see more of
the films that were directed by this gentleman, and then
maybe even some of the films that he wrote but
didn't direct.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I know he did.
Speaker 8 (48:59):
Was it Anama Nira? The Russellini film was also based
on one of his plays. I'm just like, okay, yeah,
let's check that out as well.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
Yes, Spener, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it a lot,
because I enjoy it a little bit more having heard
you gush about it.
Speaker 9 (49:16):
I'm glad then that's good to hear your opinions also
totally valid. You don't have to tell me I'm right,
but yeah, I guess. I just also find this era
of filmmaking always rewarding. There was just incredible weird shit
going on in every country in nineteen sixty eight to
seventy two through in particular, where it's let's throw down
(49:39):
all this philosophy and stuff. But in the context of
some Schnitzler had done this, I did read that this
was partly inspired by Schnitzler's Laurande again to the Circle
and whatnot. I'm interested to see if that really would
bear out. It seemed different, but I buy it the
way in which this was a time where creating a
(50:00):
kind of sensory overload with picture and sound and also
really putting the characters into all these sort of fascinating
and corrupt sexual situations in order to tease out philosophical
ideas about how are we to live.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
In this particular time?
Speaker 9 (50:20):
And I have to say, for our own times, it
seems quite inspiring.
Speaker 8 (50:25):
All right, We're going to take a break and play
a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
I call it do say content oky, but sino choi.
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So sula Richard with.
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All de manda, the melopo comfer Marigo Meloan.
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Ferma to day, the man on army.
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Save on quando temnt.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
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Is that about the amounty transit? And humi gino calash.
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Bet or no restant.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Looks like you're a.
Speaker 10 (52:11):
Don't macause so ok to say, the daughter Journey, the
time she stem at a case.
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Came regal ses degree clappy.
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Sativo commissaries, dominic atonym is parda non.
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Free, the resonam branches at telape.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
Caldero ora Qui.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (53:44):
We'll be back next week with another Patreon pick Blood
and Diamonds. Until then, one thing, my co host Spencer
and David.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
So, Spencer, what's the latest.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
With you, Sir?
Speaker 9 (53:53):
I'm hunger down in post production and teaching like crazy,
and yeah, hopefully I'll have something to show for it soon.
And I'm writing a new project that might be unfilmable,
so that's super exciting.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
And David, what's going on in your world?
Speaker 4 (54:10):
Sir?
Speaker 5 (54:11):
I host the podcast as well, called Cinema Chat, and
you have to type in Cinema Chat with David Heath then,
because if you just type in cinema Chat, there's a
few podcasts on there that show up. I named my podcast,
and then six months later I realized why did I
name it that? So I added my name to it.
That way, no one can take it away from me.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
We talk about movies from every era.
Speaker 5 (54:34):
We go all the way back to the Silent Era.
We've covered movies in the eighteen nineties, and we'll cover
movies from today and everything in between, just about every genre.
We drop a new episode every Sunday. Lots of fun guests,
on there. But I am with somebody that was actually
influenced by Mike White, because I think you are the reason,
(54:54):
Mike why I.
Speaker 8 (54:55):
Said, if this schmuck can do it, anybody can do it.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I didn't say that, but I I will say that
you go back to what.
Speaker 8 (55:02):
Twenty fourteen, twenty eleven, actually Tony eleven.
Speaker 5 (55:05):
Okay, Yeah, I remember saying to somebody, I said, I'm
never going to be bored again because this is good stuff,
and they're two and three hours long sometimes. And remember
what you had almost a five hour Conan the Barbarian episode.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
That was a monster.
Speaker 5 (55:19):
I think it took me three days to actually get
through it because I just had to posit so many times.
Speaker 9 (55:25):
I'm gonna have to look for that. I have not
heard the Grek Conan episode yet. Well, it's fantastic, and
that's probably five six years ago. You also go to
my Facebook page. It's just send them a chat on Facebook.
Speaker 5 (55:37):
I appreciate anything. Anybody that listens there goes to the page.
And I'm really glad that I've been able to come
on the show with you.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Mike.
Speaker 8 (55:45):
Thank you again, guys for being on the show. Thanks
everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of
me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the
other shows that I work on. They're all available at
weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. If
you want to join the community, visit patreon dot.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Com Projection Booth.
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Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over
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Speaker 7 (56:15):
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You proving.
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Speaker 7 (59:01):
And cha good lord pasad persons not ess.
Speaker 4 (59:07):
Not no man, no money on the money side.
Speaker 6 (59:16):
Say.
Speaker 4 (59:20):
Go you say.
Speaker 6 (59:29):
Child no so no
Speaker 7 (59:39):
London man
Oh he is Bote.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's showtime.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People pay good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in
the protection booth.
Speaker 5 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Cut it off, turn it.
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Off, Nina m Max no right.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Or let to l le Massy medi now legy Lemassi
the la prima I can't be laid there. Miche gene
gin No.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
Miami Americano, Michael stop lultimasters depas mon Moviemento mondiale almost.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
As well, Ky Michael Stophon philosopher. Yeah, you know, you
know I can understand. Mas Jack.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
The Ves.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host.
Speaker 8 (02:50):
Mike White joined me once again as mister Spencer persons Hello,
also joining us as mister David A.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Heath.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 8 (02:58):
We are continuing a month of Patreon requests with one
from Andre du We recently had him on for our
weekend episode with our nineteen sixty nine film from writer
director Giuseppe Petroni Griffi, who also wrote the play and
was joined by Daria Argento to write the screenplay for
Love Circle, also known as Metti Juna sera accena or
(03:21):
suppose one Night at Dinner. The film stars Jean Luis
Trentigne as Michelle, every known writer who spins elaborate fantasies
about an affair between his wife Nina played by Florinda
Volcan and his best friend, a charismatic bisexual actor Max
played by Tony Mussante. What he doesn't realize is that
their relationship isn't just a figment of his imagination. It's
(03:44):
been a reality for years. But the deception runs even deeper.
The couple also are entangled with a fourth player, actually
a fifth player too, but we'll talk about the fourth
one for now, an enigmatic anarchist poet Jigglow named Rick
Seeleno Capolicio, who resides in a decayed basement and shares
(04:05):
feverish encounters with Bulkan beneath the shadow of a Nazi schwastika.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We will be.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
Spoiling the movie as we go along, so I we
do want anything ruined, please go ahead and turn off
the podcast and come back after you've tracked down the film.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It is out there.
Speaker 8 (04:20):
Spencer, When was the first time you saw Love Circle
and what did you think The.
Speaker 9 (04:24):
First time I saw A Love Circle was last night,
and I really love this movie.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's a crazy one. I guess I'm an easy win.
Speaker 9 (04:33):
Once you get this cinematographer to Nino della Colli going
with Annio Morricone, those images and those sounds come together
and pretty much anything is going to keep me pretty happy.
But I really it's not one that I knew about
at all, and it seems like it's actually pretty hard
to get a hold of. I've seen one other film
by this director, Griefy Identicit, which is also a big
(04:57):
favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I really that's probably my.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
Favorite Elizabeth Taylor movie ever when I first saw Identicate.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The cinematography in that one is also.
Speaker 9 (05:08):
Really beautiful, and it's by Vittorio Serrao and is admittedly
a step up from the cinematography in this movie, but
very similar kinds of strategies where I really think that
Griefi is a visual stylist who works really well with
the best cinematographers in Italy. Deli Coley worked on a
(05:28):
lot of my favorite films, a bunch of Pasolini, Rossollini,
Lin old Vert, Mueller, Boloccio. The list goes on Sergia Leoni,
Fellini really like a legendary kind of figure. The story,
as is the case with a lot of Italian movies
from this period, is sketchier. But I was really surprised
and delighted by it, and I knew nothing.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I really knew nothing going in, which I think is
a good way to see this film.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
And David, how about yourself, I don't have the same feelings.
I feel like this was perverted Barney episode I love her,
she loves him, He loves her, he loves the other hymn.
I will agree, though, that the trimmings were good on
this film. As far as the Maricone music is almost
(06:16):
as good as anything I think I've heard that wasn't
in a Surgery of Leone film. I was very impressed
with the soundtrack, which of course you expected to be
from Marcone, but he was just on fire with this.
The music fit the film perfectly. Unfortunately, I just had
problems with the meat of the film, and I just
(06:38):
felt like the premise of how exciting that this could
possibly be. I felt like it was toned down a lot,
and I don't know, I just wasn't totally followed by
anything except the music and the cinematography is very fantastic.
(07:00):
It's very claustrophobic. I felt like the first fifteen minutes
was actually quite good and setting up for something great. Ultimately,
my favorite part, I'm not gonna lie was Florinda a
Bulkan when she winded herself off of the plural toy
or what are those mets? What do they call those mattresses? Yeah,
(07:22):
when she prailed off of the raft. That was actually
the most exciting moment besides just listening to the Marcone soundtrack.
I do find that the title love Circle definitely fits
because it wasn't a love triangle at all. It was
a circle. And I think that one other highlight would
be the or two other right, it would be the
(07:42):
conversations at dinner. Those were fun, but ultimately I just
felt he was trying to go for something and he
just didn't go near all the way, if any of
that makes sense. I didn't hate it, but I definitely
didn't love it. Those are my initiate takes.
Speaker 8 (08:02):
Yeah, I think I'm somewhere in the middle there. I
definitely found it a little perplexing, but I think part
of that is because I've talked about Franco Arcolli before
the editor of this film, and he does a great
job when it comes to circular storytelling and just the
way that he will play things off of each other.
(08:24):
We've talked about him on the Djengo Kill If You
Live Shoot episode. We talked a little bit about him
and his work on Death Laid an Egg, things like
The Conformists. I think he really helps make The Conformist
the movie that it is because of the nonlinear storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
He worked a.
Speaker 8 (08:42):
Few times with Griffy. A few times he did this
one 'tis a pity, She's a whore. I'm not sure
what else he did with them, but yet it's an
interesting way of cutting it because it's definitely it moves
back and forth, I think in time, but definitely in location.
There's a lot of times where Trenton Ye will be
(09:04):
telling a story and we'll basically transport the audience to
that story, and we're not exactly sure if they're real
stories or if they're lies, if they're just things that
he's making up on the spot. Because it comes out
pretty early in the movie he says, talking to his
best friend.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So I'm writing this news story.
Speaker 8 (09:23):
You wouldn't like it as a comedy and as a
comedy about man whose wife is cheating on him with
his best friend. And then from there he starts to
spin out these stories like say, the man was away
and the wife got very lonely and went to see
the friend at the theater and then boom cut to
the friend Max at the theater and I don't know
(09:46):
if that's Nina that's supposed to be with him, but
I think they meet up later and there's some kind
of horse in around and stuff, and they're just like, Okay,
is this really the way that it happened or is
this just a figment of Michelle Jean Louis Twintinier's imagination.
And I love the way that we'll just slide into
(10:06):
like a character will walk into a fantasy sequence almost
and it's just like, okay, this is interesting. I like
that kind of stuff. I just don't know if I
needed two hours and two minutes of it, because it
just seems to go on for quite a while, and
after after about an hour or so, I was just like,
wait a second, who is this person again? I just
(10:28):
felt like it felt like like Giuseppa gets introduced at
one point, who is another friend of theirs, but then
they I think they were talking about her beforehand. It's just, oh,
you should get you Zeppa pregnant and then leave her.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And it's like, it.
Speaker 8 (10:42):
Strikes you about Max that he should get this woman
pregnant and then abandon her, and it's I don't know
exactly what's going on, but that's one of those dinner
conversations that you're talking about. And the beautiful cinematography, especially
the colors in front of their faces, the way the
camera's kind of zipping around and flipping back and forth
between these people is really elegantly shot and very well
(11:04):
put together. I just don't know if I was as
compelled by the material as I should have been.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
I agree that it's too long, but I am actually
compelled by a lot of what's going on and the
story of the sort of meta levels and the slipperiness
of what might be the writer's imagination versus reality, and
that the movie, especially because it's got this cinematography that's
like constantly moving and circling in an editorial style that
(11:32):
blends together locations, and even some great camera tricks and
staging tricks where a scene will start out with three
characters talking and in the midst of it, two of
them have completely disappeared, and you realize over the course
of a long take that we've gone from a fantasy
into reality.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But it doesn't always give cues for that.
Speaker 9 (11:55):
And I guess I'm an easier win for that kind
of a thing than you guys are. And I think
it also speaks to a lot of very indebted to Pirandello,
and even put some Pirandello right in the movie at
one point. And so this play of reality versus fiction,
the reality of fiction. And then I will say that
(12:18):
just as a character, I felt so bad for Rick
throughout this literally poor but obviously also artistically engaged boy
toy for these rich people.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And he's a compelling sort of character.
Speaker 9 (12:32):
And at one point one of the characters I forget
who says he's the only one of us who is
who he is. And there's something very interesting about that,
given his particular position, because there's also that sort of
sense that the jiggolow the sex worker has to put
on love and is acting and there's fiction going on
(12:53):
while other facts are also happening. The sense that he
could be the most authentic of all of them is interesting.
I'll also say where it ends up. And the philosophical
stuff that they chew on throughout for me is like
anti winter Light. It's as confronted by imminent nuclear holocaust.
(13:14):
Their notion is let's just get together and we're all
gonna fuck. There is something about that time and place
and that kind of response. As much as it's like
a bunch of boogie people, I find to be a
compelling and less expected sort of reaction to things. The
libertinism under the circumstances, I think is a kind of
(13:37):
an interesting social position to examine.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I get all what you're saying, and I think that
you're bringing some solid points to it. I think I'm
like Mike though, or to just like feel like overall
the meat wasn't wasn't enough. And I can also say
that he watched another production by him called The Divine Nymph.
It was almost a replica of this one with Terrence Stamp,
(14:04):
and it is so annoying because it's Terence Stamp. What's
not Arren Stampswice. That drove me crazy. But anyway, The
Divine Nymph was actually probably less meaty this one, and
I do think one of the interesting things about it
is there's an underlying concept here of be careful when
(14:26):
your feelings get involved. I feel like the film is
a bit of a cautionary tale, Like Bob and Carrold
Ted and Alice spoiler alert. At the end, they're like,
is this really what we should be doing?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I don't feel right about this. There's something about when
you have all this circling like that's going on, somebody's
bound to have some hurt feeling. And I think there
is an underlying concept there. And if you watch The
Divine Nymph, which I would suggest for you, Spencer, because
if you love this, you'll at least like the Divine nim. Yeah,
I think that there's a somewhat of a cautionary tale
(14:59):
in there, a little bit of morality. What looks on
the service to be a completely depraved film.
Speaker 9 (15:06):
Well, there's a really nice line in the last scene
that works in two ways that they talk about the
table and the round table, and even before this scene
there's a reference to King Arthur, and of course, given
the intertwined natures, you can't help but think of Arthur
and Lancelot and Gwenevere. But Michelle Jean Jean Tritagnan. He
(15:30):
man my French teacher's mad at me right now. He
at one point says, it's not a table, it's a raft.
And I think this plays in a couple of ways.
One this idea that really develops of the course of
that particular scene, that this is a life raft in
a world where they are perceiving, whether they're correct or not,
apocalyptic forebodings, that they're taking this as a life raft.
(15:51):
But it also visually takes me back to that incredible
scene of Florinda Bocan on the raft, which is so
beautifully shot. I do think it's also worth talking about
the eroticism in the film, because it isn't just a
matter that these folks are hooking up.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And I think there's.
Speaker 9 (16:08):
Some interesting careful qualities about this because there's the eroticism.
There's maybe less skin in this than other Italian movies
and especially like Italian exploitation movies of the period, But
the way that the sex is photographed and dramatized by
following hands, for instance.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Is incredibly hot.
Speaker 9 (16:30):
It's a much hotter movie than it should be, considering
even like mores of the time. And I do wonder
if one of the reasons for that is because it
was perceived at the time as scandalous enough. It says
that these dudes do have sex at pivot point in
the film, the menage atois, but it really dances around
it very carefully, and I think actually remains pretty hot
(16:54):
while doing that. I'm actually impressed how much it works
at that point in the film. Also in that I
really think Tony Mussante's performance I don't quite buy him
as fully bisexual.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
His performance and the way that things have staged for him,
and this I think actually works within the film.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
But I find this anapsis of the film really funny
when it describes him as bisexual, because I think, I
don't know, his sexuality seems a lot more like he's
maybe there to watch or something. He does not feel
fully comfortable, And I don't think that's necessarily bad. I
think that's actually like interesting in the mix, but maybe
not totally intentional. But I do think that the movie
(17:34):
holds back just a little bit in order to get
away with its big you know, the big guns of
its provocation, which at the time were difficult and even
now like in the Year of Challengers, which I found
to be pretty chaste. Actually, I was very surprised at that,
and it is so I think even now there's a
bit of a third rail that certainly back at the
(17:56):
time that this was made, is in play.
Speaker 8 (17:59):
What's funny because Griffy's previous film that he wrote from
sixty two wrote and directed, because he wrote quite a bit.
I mentioned before, he's a playwright as well, so he
had a bunch of stuff that was changed from plays
to movies. The one that he directed before this was
from sixty two. It is called El Mar and there's
(18:20):
a bisexual relationship in that one as well. And I
agree with you that really I don't feel that Max
is that bisexual, but yeah, he definitely seems to be
down to watch what's going on. It reminded me a
little bit of Radley Metzger and Radley Metzger's score with
the whole bisexuality and these multiple couples and stuff, because really,
(18:40):
at the end of the day, you've got like the
five people, and you talked about there's really the one
outsider with Rick who doesn't match that when it comes
to their social standing or any of that stuff. I
kept thinking that Rick was going to go on some
sort of rampage at the end of this and chill everyone,
just because he seems so unhinged. I's got Oh I'm
(19:01):
so cold in this apartment. Oh here, take this Nazi
flag and wrap yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
In it and I'll keep you war.
Speaker 8 (19:08):
Could we get more provocative than a Nazi flag for
you to wrap yourself in.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's very strong imagery.
Speaker 8 (19:14):
His whole apartment set is very interesting, especially we've got
him firing that gun that I guess it's a picture of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Her in the opening scene.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yes, oh yeah, and yeah, the.
Speaker 8 (19:25):
Whole thing of her try and find the apartment or
going to the apartment. You've got the more conic score
going during the credits and everything. It was really striking,
and there are many moments in this film that are
equally striking to this. And yeah, it's interesting too because
when you're seeing them together, you're like, is this the future?
Is this the past? Because they're cutting away from that
(19:46):
and cutting to her, and then they'll cut back to it,
and we're getting more information about the relationships than they're
even talking about. We obviously start to see the whole
setup of the lover's triangle, but then we start seeing
oh no, there's a fourth point. Oh no, there's actually
a fifth point to this, and like you said, it's
much more of a rounded thing. And I think the
(20:07):
whole idea of them going to a boxing match where
you've got the squared circle is pretty telling as well.
And I'd like these metaphors that are going on. I'm
always curious when it comes to plays that have been
turned into movies, do they lose the play feel to it.
There are certain movies where you're just like, oh my god,
this was such a play, like Six Degrees of Separation.
(20:28):
You're just like, all the actors are talking to the
back row, and you're just like, this is a movie.
You can do a little bit smaller than this. And
then there are other movies, even with big performances like
Jack Nicholson, like A Few Good Men, where you're like.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh no, this was a movie.
Speaker 8 (20:43):
Yes, it was based on a play, obviously a courtroom drama,
but I really feel like they did a good job
taking it out of the theater and putting it into
the movie theater.
Speaker 9 (20:53):
Yeah, And that's where the style of cinematography I think
is really key, because the performances are off kind of
screechy in the film, but they fit together with this
kind of florid camera work that keeps moving around them
and dancing with them, so that in particular, Bolkhan is
she's beautiful, just like throwing her hair around all over
(21:17):
this movie as the camera follows her through a room
and she's got to.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yell at people.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
But yeah, so there is there's like a there's a
certain theatricality that stays, but the cinematic form and all
the beautiful locations and the intense arc direction and everything
also really contribute to a feeling of it's the heightened
quality is more cinematic than theatrical.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
I definitely was seen that during that boxing match scene
where they do a really good job of making the
crowd around them seem much bigger than it needed to be,
because generally when you do, oh, here's the people at
the boxing match, and obviously they weren't at the boxing match.
But with that, it's like you see her stand up
and leave and you're like, oh, that actually looks like
(22:03):
the actress is leaving. You can see that they were
actually in the location at some point, and then when
they come back to them, they're having their conversation. During
this fight, they have a lot of people behind them.
It's not just like two three people or just the knees.
You get the stands and everything, so you can barely
see the people that are behind them.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
But it's oh no, this.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
Is actually like a pretty good crowd around them, and
the crowd is doing some really good acting as far
as reacting to that fight, and I'm like, oh, okay,
this actually seems very legit.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
I forget whether it was Max or Mikkel. I feel
like I'm gonna be wrong whichever one I commit to.
Walks out of the scene, and the camera follows them
through a lot of space out of the arena and
then also down the hall and everything.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
The way that.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
It's conceiving of the space constantly keeps giving us a
lot of atmosphere and psychological quality. As I'm seeing this
guy walk out and around and when I can't remember
which of the characters it was, it's partly because of
the I think, a semi deliberate confusion. Maybe it's not
(23:07):
all deliberate confusion, but as semi deliberate confusion that's being
created that sort of conflates these people into each other.
But the yeah, the act of following opens up a
kind of psychological space for the character and the relationships,
and that comes at a cost when you're doing a
big crowd scene. That's, I got to say, pretty expensive
(23:29):
shot for a movie that's based on a play that
basically has five main characters who end up all around
a dinner table at the end.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But yeah, I gotta say hooray for cinema.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
This is one of those movies that reminds you not
everything has to be Hollywood. Will you watch it? Then?
I my own podcast, I talk about movies of all kinds,
and sometimes when I go out and left field that
people don't listen to the show what to leave you
when they hear a movie all I've seen that movie
a hundred times, all of some of that. But this
(24:01):
is one of those films though that like I said,
I think everything that Spencer is saying I agree with.
I almost want to watch it again now after banning it.
But all of that is true what you say, Spencer.
The shots in this film are really good. I think
if the script was buttoned up a little bit, and
(24:22):
I think it had less fat on the bone, I would.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Have enjoyed it a lot more.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I truly did.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well.
Speaker 9 (24:28):
You mentioned this script, and this leads to Dario Argento's
participation in the movie. He worked on adapting the script
from a play into a screenplay, and I don't want
to overdo it in terms of maybe this was just
a I was not able to determine how much of
an exciting project this was for Argento, but some there
(24:52):
are some real connections to argento work that I found
in this, So it seems like at the least, if
it was just a job of work, he was right
guy for the job, because there are a lot of
interesting jallo and horror kind of elements that don't pay
off in that particular way. And the premise is actually
similar to some Argento premises, particularly Tenebre, where you've got
(25:17):
the author of a book full of these murders that
then the murders start to occur in real life. That
kind of reality and fiction and art and life a
kind of mixture coming in. So I think Argento is
definitely vibing on that kind of material. And then also
I think the director, as far as briefly, as far
as I could find out, I think he's either gay
(25:39):
or bisexual and definitely wrote a lot of important kind
of queer stuff but there's also a lot of queerness
in argento films under the surface, and again back to Tenebre,
that's one where there's some real sexual fantasies that are
I don't even know if homo erotic is quite right,
but definitely queer and touching on the home erotic. And
(26:00):
Argento often has gay characters in the background in a
lot of interesting ways.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So I guess there's two prongs.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
There's the Argento connection and then did you guys get
anything out of the sense of connection with the queer
side of Argento's work at all.
Speaker 8 (26:17):
I don't know Argento's work as well as I would like.
I am fascinated by these movies that he was writing
before he became a director, and obviously I'm a huge
fan of Once upon a Time in the West, But
then things even like Cemetery without Crosses or five man Army,
and so this is very interesting because he was more
of a He's very similar to your Gradar, your Truffaus.
(26:40):
As far as I know, he was a film critic
first and I moved into screenwriting and then eventually becomes
a director's writer director. But yeah, I'm just I've only
seen a handful of Argento, probably the ones that we've
covered on the show, which is maybe three or four,
so not a ton.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
I have a lot of experience with those either. But
I will say that I felt like this film spent
the entire time except at the dinner table, maybe on
the perimeter of subjects, and didn't actually open the door
and walk in. That's something that I did feel. The
dinner table scenes were pretty great. Ultimately, I just think
if this film were hour and twenty seven minutes, I
(27:22):
probably would have loved it. But it was just an
awful lot to get to those really good, needy scenes,
And to be fair, that's the way almost every film
today is made with the thirty minutes too long.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
This is one where I really wish I could see
it on a big screen. I have suspicions that obviously,
and I'll fess up. The audio visual quality of just
pictures and sounds going together is like my primary a
source of pleasure in the movie. I really wonder if
maybe it would still be too long, but it might
(27:57):
not be quite as much too long were I seeing
this in a theater and was really able to be
a watch in it. We also watched on a pretty
I will say low grade transfer. And this is really
making me if any boutique labels out there are listening
right now, I think this would really be an excellent
title to restore and give a proper transfer if there
(28:21):
are in fact decent elements still out there. When I
looked around, I found and have already bought a DVD,
but this one really seems to me like a worthy
project for a proper restoration and transfer. So I don't know,
Vinegar Syndrome or somebody, if you're listening to check this out.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
Was that the Raal video version, and I think that
might be the source of what we watched.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't know, it seemed to be well.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
I found a few different versions of this one with
hard coded Spanish subs, which I thank you yea, which
really challenged my Spanish. Am I Italian because I took
both of those. I took Spanish in high school and
Italian in college, so that was interesting and also to
see because I found English subtitles, so the English subtitles
would run over the Spanish ones, but then I'm like, oh,
(29:14):
they just said bourgeois, but then they're saying middle class
and the English subtitle anyway, there was a different version
that I also watched, which every couple reels it would
go to color bars and that horrible noise that was
going and I'm like, oh, this is rough, and then
(29:34):
it would go back to it. But thank goodness, whoever
put the subtitles on that had it timed correctly so
that after that break it would come back into sync.
I did find one that's fairly decent with burned in
English subtitles, which is the one that I've got going
right now while we're talking about this, But still the
quality isn't as good as I would like.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I agree with you.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
If there was a beautiful print of this, I could
really see myself starting to like this a lot more.
And yeah, had I seen this at the theater, because
that's the one thing I've always said on the show too,
where it's I can handle longer movies when I'm at
a movie theater than I can at home, just because
there's so many temptations of getting distracted at home, versus
when you're in a movie theater, you're locked in. I'm
(30:19):
here for this. I'm here for this only, and other
than the occasional Terrence Malick.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Film, I don't get bored with longer films.
Speaker 9 (30:28):
I think with a movie like this, the social part
of it could be pretty interesting as well. How are
people reacting as this goes on, even if it's dated.
It's sort of libertine, a kind of quality of the
characters and the storytelling. The way the characters think of
each other, think of marriage, think of sex is still abrasive,
(30:51):
and I hope we'll always be abrasive because these are
not necessarily very likable people, and what they're on about
is somebody is going to get hurt, and they seem
not to care enough about how someone will get hurt.
And in particular Rick, the lower class Jigglow, he's the
one who consistently gets the most hurt, even if he
(31:13):
also wraps himself up in the cold with this whole
Nazi flag. That's also something about the film that I
find interesting. I wonder about reactions in a crowd. I
don't know that I can ever clock what that Nazi
flag is really supposed to quote unquote mean.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But I'd be interested to be.
Speaker 9 (31:32):
In an audience where we all have to feel our
way through that, because I don't know that it necessarily
has a meaning.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
If he saw it at the movie theater. Your parents
were probably alive during World War Two. That's just jarring
to me in the opening scene. Yeah, I just it's
just jarring. Where did that come from and why is
it here? I don't understand.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
Yeah, I don't know if it's supposed to be that
he's some sort of edge lord or something, or what
his deal is, because I think describe me as an anarchist.
At one point, I'm like, let's you wouldn't add and
adhere to Nazi belis if you're an anarchist. But maybe
it was just some sort of big misunderstanding. Maybe it
was supposed to be some sort of symbol of love
that got horribly mistranslated by the miss mainstream media.
Speaker 9 (32:16):
I take his possession of the object as ironic and
in that way, maybe a little bit edge lordy. But
I'm not so I can follow what it's supposed to
mean with the character. But in the world of the film,
this is a group of such nihilistic people. No, I
don't think it's saying that they're Nazis. That does not
seem to be what the movie is about. But at
(32:38):
the same time, it's an obvious, big loaded symbol that
comes up repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It gets used dramatically in the scene I love.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
This is my favorite scene in the movie, probably the
scene where he hangs himself on the set of the
play that they're part of, and bo Khan she has
to go in and get him down before he dies.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And the way that it revealed who it is and.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
What's going on is we see his feet hanging and
then the flag, the red of the flag drops into
the frame.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So it's being used in these really interesting ways.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
And then that scene, I have to say, as much
as I really don't, I like Rick, but I don't
like these other characters very much, and I like Rick.
The Nazi flag notwithstanding, this is a gross thing for
him around to have around, but he's a more likable character.
But as he takes a breath and kind of comes
back to life, it's this nice little bit of traditional melodrama,
(33:32):
really wanting for him not to die and to see
what's going to happen between him and Nina over the
rest of the film.
Speaker 8 (33:39):
Yeah, you talk about how they're unpleasant people, and they
are this whole It's like they talk about each other
like they're pieces of meat or game pieces, and it's
just like, oh, you should be with Guzeppa, No it
should be you, or no you should do this, and
like throwing people at each other and just yeah, it
feels very much like they're I like that the boor
(34:00):
upper class kind of thing, where it's just how can
we spice this up? I'm gonna start this affair. I'm
going to have this happen, or you should start an affair.
You should, like I said before, you should get this
woman pregnant and then abandon ear. It's what the hell
are you guys on about? And they just seem to
just be so up their own asses so much, and yeah,
Rick seems to be the only genuine character. And then
(34:22):
I was talking before about how confusing sometimes this is
because we are going back and forth and we're jumping locations,
and it's just we're at this dinner table and now boom,
we're in a car, and now we're over here, and
now we're over there. Then you come to the play
section of the movie, like you're talking about with the
last part, and then it suddenly becomes wait are we
watching the play? Are we watching the real thing? What's
(34:42):
happening here? Reminded me a little bit of some of
the Cassavetti's works that I guess Opening Night where it's
just is this the movie that they're shooting? Is this
the play that they're in? What part of this world
am I looking at? Opening Night has that kind of
horror overtone to it, And there were times where I
was just like, I wonder, what's going to happen here?
Because I just, like I said, I kept feeling like
(35:03):
something bad was going to happen, or like we're committing
suicide is a bad thing, but here I thought he
was just going to go nuts and kill all these people.
But as far as I know, he does not do that,
and it just makes it mix. It very tense through
the whole thing, which I feel that the maintains throughout
this whole movie.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I would definitely agree that tension is pretty high. And
then Rick is again.
Speaker 9 (35:27):
It's interesting, there's that sense that he could kill off everybody.
This is actually interesting because in recent years we've had
our own run of let's make fun of the bourgeoisie
movies like Triangle of Sadness and The Menu and these
that kind of have this eat the rich ethos. That
is fun to begin with, But I've got to say that,
(35:48):
especially as I see more and more of these movies,
like one of them, I can go, oh, yeah, a hah, funny,
But after I see a whole bunch of them, do
you not want.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
A better world? Do you just want to bring other
people down?
Speaker 9 (36:00):
Are we settling for tormenting and murdering our tormentors and murderers?
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Is that really the best that we can expect?
Speaker 9 (36:07):
And there's something about this movie that does similar kind
of stuff and playing around with ideas of the bourgeois,
and that's not uncommon for art movies of this period,
but I feel like there's something a lot more interesting
going on to make us fit with them, and to
whatever degree can we empathize or sympathize, and then to
(36:28):
what degree can we observe and draw a larger philosophical
sense of how the world works from their behavior.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
And it's interesting too that this was nineteen sixty nine
that this movie came out, and I did a whole
series a couple of years ago of just movies from
nineteen sixty nine and how the world was in such turmoil,
and this movie also seems to plug into it. It's
looking at something that's a little different than student riots
(36:57):
and things. But I could see Rick joining those riots.
I could see Rick eventually maybe I should join the
Red Brigade. I'm not exactly sure here what should I do.
But this is endemic of those things that were going
on in the rest of the world and just oh yeah, no,
this is how this upper strata of Italian society is
(37:17):
working and operating. And these people are assholes, and yeah,
it's okay to make fun of them. But to your point,
I agree about those kind of more recent wave of
let's talk about influencers and let's talk about how vapid
they are and it's okay, yeah, that's like a couple jokes,
but we're gonna have it out for ninety five minutes.
I enjoyed the menu. I think I enjoyed that more
(37:40):
than Triangle of Sadness. I think, but I guess I
take that back because I didn't realize that there was
the second half of Triangle of Sadness when I was
watching it. I thought it was all going to be
on the boat. Once they get off the boat, that's
when I found it interesting.
Speaker 9 (37:55):
And thinking about those current movies that are about bringing
the rich down to the level of the people who
they're tormenting. This has a kind of provocative question of
what is it for Rick to get to sit at
the table with them.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
That's a very good point. Yeah, and Rick is basically
yeah he did. Yeah, he just feels left out in
the cold. And I think one of the things, going
to one of Spencer's points is that often in these
type of films it's a female that is in that
position and not a man. Often it happens that way.
(38:33):
But I wanted to bring up one of the things
I didn't want to forget. As impressive as this score is,
I think equally as impressive are the silent moments. There
are moments where the film just dead silence for where
you can just cut an eye through it, and I
wanted to make sure to bring that up. I know
that kind of gear shifts us away from what we
(38:55):
were talking about, but I wanted to bring that up
because I just felt like that is an aspect of
this film that utilize that that start and stop music
so effectively.
Speaker 8 (39:05):
It's not just a men's story. It's not just Griffy
saying oh yeah, I'm the Trintonnier character and look at
how important I am, or something like that it feels
very much like the Giuseppe seems a little like I said,
she doesn't even come in until almost a half an
hour into the movie, so they talk about her beforehand,
(39:26):
and then she eventually shows up. It always feels like
she's on the outs as well, even though she seems
to travel in the same circles. But I would have
to say that the wife is just as important as
the two men. She really has agency. It's not just
these two men are struggling and eventually there's a third
man that comes in kind of thing. No, it's very
much the three main people, and then like Giuseppa and Rick,
(39:51):
especially Rick on the outside.
Speaker 9 (39:52):
For me, David, your point about the sound in the
way that the music comes in and out is not
off from the topic really, because the music is really
used in a formal fashion to help sell these moments
of connection and disconnection between the people and the moments
of silence between them can be pregnant and thrilling and exciting.
(40:15):
But then also any almricone will come in. The music
is very edited here, it's not there's a certain amount
that feels scored to the movie.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But I will say from my own experience in the
editing room. I love this kind of use of music.
Speaker 9 (40:28):
There's a lot of scoring that gets used in a
very editorial way where it's will suddenly be bringing it
in and then we'll cut you off just as we
feel like we're getting going with the score again. That
is I think really beautifully done. And there's also like
a kind of circular pattern to the way that it's
(40:49):
composed that really brings us back. It's funny that the
original title is not love circle at all, but that
round table is suggesting things for as well in creating
this kind of circular pattern that's a little bit like
a Ballero sort of thing. The characters in their attractions,
have you.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
Guys seined the Maricone documentary that was released years ago,
A few years ago, No, I need to Well, it's
so worth it. He was eighty years old before he
realized how loved he was. When he received an honorary
Academy award, his dad beating down pretty bad verbally with well,
(41:29):
you're not making earal music. This is just commercial stuff.
And he really he didn't go to his grave thankfully
believing that. But he was a very old man by
the time he realized that he was beloved, and I
don't think anyone can discount what he did for the
film industry because he was unique. And it's a terrible
word to use most of the time, because unique means
(41:51):
there's only one or only one of a kind, and
he is unique. John Williams is not unique. There are
other people that can do John Williams type stuff. But
then you know, Maracone is one of a kind and
we never had anyone that was like him. And I
think that my initial takeaway from the first few moments.
(42:13):
I was really into this film for the first few
months because of the cluster phobic feeling that I was giving,
and then that wonderful music, and I think I actually
turned it on before I really before I looked at
the Wikipedia or whatever to see who did the music.
I said, that's really good. That sounds Maracone, and sure,
(42:33):
uh as Maracone. And usually I'm five minutes deep in
a movie before I start doing any research in it.
But I love the music. I can appreciate the fact
that it was probably was heavily edited, but I also
like those the stoppages of the music, and all of
a sudden, one thing from these people in the film.
You see a lot of acting with eyes, and when
(42:56):
people act with their eyes, that's really that's powerful stuff,
and not everybody can do that. And do you watch
your average oh, I don't know, Family Disney Live action production.
You're gonna see people mailing in performances well that kind
of thing, but you don't see people really into what
(43:17):
they're doing. And these people acting in this film were
really into what they were doing, and that's something that
I can deeply appreciate.
Speaker 8 (43:25):
Speaking of the score, I like when Morcone employees whistling.
I think that was always something that I liked when
he would do, especially during the spaghetti westerns, but there's
some good whistling in this one as well. And I
think he worked with the same whistler very often because
they got along and then whistler could keep up with them.
Going back to the whole circular thing too, I think
(43:45):
the camera work really emphasizes that whenever they are around
that table, because the camera, like I said before, was
whipping between the people. But there's a lot of movement
going around those tables. There's some really good camera moves.
I remember there was one shot of you Sepa where
the camera just backs away from her and it's just
the camera. Sometimes it's towards the end, I think it's
(44:07):
very here's a close up, here's a close up.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Here's a close up.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
But until maybe ninety minutes into the film, whenever they're
at a table, you really get that sense of motion
and going around. Like the opening scene of Roseanne, that's
what I heard inspired Tarantino with the camera work around
the table at reservoir Dogs. Yes, yes, oh that's crazy.
I could a godar but he said Roseannes.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
Tarantino thing to say, wherever you get it from.
Speaker 9 (44:33):
Yeah, but I could wax rhapsodic about this camera work
all night. I do really think that the sense uneasy,
constant movement. It's funny because plot wise, one of the
things is this guy is laying out his plot as
a comedy, and of course this movie that's outside of
the play within the play, doesn't have to be a comedy.
(44:53):
But it's really far from being a comedy in that
it's far more built for unease and worry and whatnot.
The camera prowls and it zooms. They're actually a couple
of really masterful zoom outs in the movie to reveal
something that's going on that are in the zip code
of those beautiful Barry Linden zoom outs that reveal more
(45:16):
and more.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
This is very different from Barry Linden.
Speaker 9 (45:18):
It's revealing more plot and character, skullduggery and whatnot, whereas
Barry Linden is constantly revealing more the larger, corrupt world.
But yeah, just really beautiful control. In relationship to the
Maricone music, a lot of Italian film score music has
become available and pops up online now repeated experience, because
(45:42):
I love the Italian film scores of the sixties and seventies.
It's really become some of my favorite music, not just
film score music, and I've become familiar with a lot
of these films before I can ever track them down.
I've actually heard this particular Maricone score before because it's
been out there.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
But Moricone and the kind of scene.
Speaker 9 (46:03):
Around him is also he was quite a mentor to
a lot of other great composers. So if you're hearing
this and you can't track down the movie, do track
down the music. It's out there and it's great, just
fantastic to listen to.
Speaker 8 (46:17):
Going back to what you were talking about with our gento,
I'm guessing maybe Argento was on the set at some
point because Tony Messante would end up showing up in
Berwick Crystal Plumage, which came out the next year.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (46:30):
He's absolutely fantastic in that I wanted to. I was
talking about my Italian teacher, possibly before we began, but
I didn't realize that I had seen Lino Cappolicio before,
because my teacher showed us the Garden of Fitzencotinas all
those years ago. He's one of the main characters. And
(46:52):
I didn't realize that we had talked about the lady
that played Giuseppa Annie Giredo. She is the incredible mother
from The Piano Teacher. Holy shit, is she amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
In that I did not Oh, man, I did not
know that.
Speaker 9 (47:09):
Rate.
Speaker 8 (47:09):
Yeah, she was also in Hidden or Cachet, the other
Hannicke film, but yeah, the long, long career, and yeah,
I did not recognize her. And she just, oh, she's
so good, just such a wonderful villain in The Piano Teacher.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Man, this movie is really stacked.
Speaker 9 (47:29):
That also, I don't know you can have movies that
are stacked that get lost. I do find the way
that this one is really not very available to be
so strange given all the different figures involved. God, I
hope that the negative still exists, or that there's a
decent innernegative or interpositive or something out there to restore
(47:53):
from any kind of decent print or prints, because it
could be really beautiful on a blu ray or four K.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I would put it on in a theater in a
second if I could.
Speaker 8 (48:04):
This is one of those movies where I feel like,
now after having had this discussion, I feel a lot
more connected with it, and I'm just really glad we
had this conversation because as of the first time I
watch it, I was just like, oh my god, what
a slog this thing was.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
But even though I still feel it's.
Speaker 8 (48:22):
A little long in the tooth, I really do appreciate
what this was going for. And I'm really glad that
Andrea picked this one because I was a little hesitant.
I mentioned that he had picked out Weekend. I was
really dreading talking about Weekend, but had a great conversation
and then same thing here with you guys talking about
this movie. I'm just like, Okay, yeah, now I feel
much more at ease with this film, And to your point,
(48:45):
I think I would definitely check this out again. I
feel now that I really want to see more of
the films that were directed by this gentleman, and then
maybe even some of the films that he wrote but
didn't direct.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I know he did.
Speaker 8 (48:59):
Was it Anama Nira? The Russellini film was also based
on one of his plays. I'm just like, okay, yeah,
let's check that out as well.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
Yes, Spener, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it a lot,
because I enjoy it a little bit more having heard
you gush about it.
Speaker 9 (49:16):
I'm glad then that's good to hear your opinions also
totally valid. You don't have to tell me I'm right,
but yeah, I guess. I just also find this era
of filmmaking always rewarding. There was just incredible weird shit
going on in every country in nineteen sixty eight to
seventy two through in particular, where it's let's throw down
(49:39):
all this philosophy and stuff. But in the context of
some Schnitzler had done this, I did read that this
was partly inspired by Schnitzler's Laurande again to the Circle
and whatnot. I'm interested to see if that really would
bear out. It seemed different, but I buy it the
way in which this was a time where creating a
(50:00):
kind of sensory overload with picture and sound and also
really putting the characters into all these sort of fascinating
and corrupt sexual situations in order to tease out philosophical
ideas about how are we to live.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
In this particular time?
Speaker 9 (50:20):
And I have to say, for our own times, it
seems quite inspiring.
Speaker 8 (50:25):
All right, We're going to take a break and play
a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
I call it do say content oky, but sino choi.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
So sula Richard with.
Speaker 10 (51:13):
All de manda, the melopo comfer Marigo Meloan.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Ferma to day, the man on army.
Speaker 11 (51:25):
Save on quando temnt.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Partia no domanicoloside a party called let me don't.
Speaker 6 (51:37):
Sh sh.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Sh sh shut?
Speaker 11 (51:50):
Is that about the amounty transit? And humi gino calash.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Bet or no restant.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Looks like you're a.
Speaker 10 (52:11):
Don't macause so ok to say, the daughter Journey, the
time she stem at a case.
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Came regal ses degree clappy.
Speaker 10 (52:26):
Sativo commissaries, dominic atonym is parda non.
Speaker 11 (52:43):
Free, the resonam branches at telape.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
Caldero ora Qui.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (53:44):
We'll be back next week with another Patreon pick Blood
and Diamonds. Until then, one thing, my co host Spencer
and David.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
So, Spencer, what's the latest.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
With you, Sir?
Speaker 9 (53:53):
I'm hunger down in post production and teaching like crazy,
and yeah, hopefully I'll have something to show for it soon.
And I'm writing a new project that might be unfilmable,
so that's super exciting.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
And David, what's going on in your world?
Speaker 4 (54:10):
Sir?
Speaker 5 (54:11):
I host the podcast as well, called Cinema Chat, and
you have to type in Cinema Chat with David Heath then,
because if you just type in cinema Chat, there's a
few podcasts on there that show up. I named my podcast,
and then six months later I realized why did I
name it that? So I added my name to it.
That way, no one can take it away from me.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
We talk about movies from every era.
Speaker 5 (54:34):
We go all the way back to the Silent Era.
We've covered movies in the eighteen nineties, and we'll cover
movies from today and everything in between, just about every genre.
We drop a new episode every Sunday. Lots of fun guests,
on there. But I am with somebody that was actually
influenced by Mike White, because I think you are the reason,
(54:54):
Mike why I.
Speaker 8 (54:55):
Said, if this schmuck can do it, anybody can do it.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I didn't say that, but I I will say that
you go back to what.
Speaker 8 (55:02):
Twenty fourteen, twenty eleven, actually Tony eleven.
Speaker 5 (55:05):
Okay, Yeah, I remember saying to somebody, I said, I'm
never going to be bored again because this is good stuff,
and they're two and three hours long sometimes. And remember
what you had almost a five hour Conan the Barbarian episode.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
That was a monster.
Speaker 5 (55:19):
I think it took me three days to actually get
through it because I just had to posit so many times.
Speaker 9 (55:25):
I'm gonna have to look for that. I have not
heard the Grek Conan episode yet. Well, it's fantastic, and
that's probably five six years ago. You also go to
my Facebook page. It's just send them a chat on Facebook.
Speaker 5 (55:37):
I appreciate anything. Anybody that listens there goes to the page.
And I'm really glad that I've been able to come
on the show with you.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Mike.
Speaker 8 (55:45):
Thank you again, guys for being on the show. Thanks
everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of
me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the
other shows that I work on. They're all available at
weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. If
you want to join the community, visit patreon dot.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Com Projection Booth.
Speaker 8 (56:01):
Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over
the world.
Speaker 7 (56:15):
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You proving.
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Child no so no
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London man
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