November 10, 2025 • 24 mins
Mike talks with Caleb Alexander Smith and David Krumholtz about Forelock, a dark, biting satire set on the margins of Hollywood. The film follows Caiden, a drifting ex-athlete pulled into the bizarre world of boulevard impersonators and small-time hustlers by Randy, a disillusioned veteran of the trade. Together they chase a missing payout and sink deeper into the city’s surreal underbelly.
Smith and Krumholtz discuss the film’s blend of desperation, performance, and self-mythology—how Forelock captures a Los Angeles where ambition and delusion often look the same.
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Smith and Krumholtz discuss the film’s blend of desperation, performance, and self-mythology—how Forelock captures a Los Angeles where ambition and delusion often look the same.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-projection-booth-podcast--5513239/support.
Become a supporter of The Projection Booth at http://www.patreon.com/projectionbooth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh g is, folks, it's showtime.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
They want clothed soda, pop popcorn in no monsters.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
In the Projection Booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Got it off? Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode
(00:41):
of the Projection Booth. I'm your host Mike White. On
this episode, I'm talking about the movie for Lock. That's
f O R E l O c K. It's not
the fourth in a film series about locks. It is
a brand new movie directed and written by Caleb Alexander Smith,
and it stars David Crumhol as well as mister Smith.
(01:01):
It is all about a naive fitness enthusiast who looks
a lot like a particular superhero who ends up getting
a job over on Hollywood Boulevard and all kinds of
wackiness follows. It is making the rounds at festivals. There
is not really a poster or even a trailer for
(01:22):
this one, and as those rolled out, I will definitely
be updating folks on where they can see Forlock. I
had a lot of fun with this and I was
super happy to talk with mister Smith. And especially mister Crumholtz,
because I've been watching him since he was in Adam's
Family Values, so kind of watched him grow up through
(01:44):
the magic of the movies. Thank you so much for listening,
and I hope you enjoy this interview. Mister Smith, I'm
not that familiar with your work. Can you tell me
a little bit more about how you got involved in
filmmaking and especially how you came to be a writer director.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I moved to Los Angeles after college, where I studied film,
and I was very much my intention to be a
writer and director, and when I landed in LA what
actually got going a little bit more was acting. So
I've acted on a lot of TV stuff, Network TV stuff,
but all the while I was pursuing writing and directing.
(02:18):
I co wrote and directed the micro budget film here
nine years ago that made a little micro splash, but
that did get me representation, and I optioned some scripts,
sold some things, got very close to a few projects
before Forelock. Actually, it does seem like I'm new to
the scene, and I am in a way as a
writer director, but also I've been pursuing it for a
(02:40):
very long time.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And how did you mister Crumholtz meet.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
He was the right person for the role of Randy.
And when the first time we met was over Zoom
after we sent him the script and within the first
five minutes of talking to him about the story in
the project, it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Was obvious that this is the guy.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But despite the fact that he lives in New Jersey
now and I'm from New Jersey, we hadn't actually met
before this project.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
How did Black get going, where did the idea come from,
and how did it actually get made.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
I was in La New to La. Like many people,
I needed a side hustle and a side gig. And
what people kept saying to me, mostly ironic, although some not,
was well, you look just like Superman. You should put
on spandex, go to Hollywood Boulevard and take pictures of
the Taurus and get tips. And that idea stuck in
my crawl for a very long time, and I was
(03:31):
as I was writing other projects and things were some
things were selling, some things weren't. I had this idea
over time that I was holding back a little bit
and I wasn't writing something personal, and I wanted to
do something that was based off of my own experiences.
So that's when I wrote Forelock about this guy who
it's a flip of me where he doesn't want anything
to do with movies. He moves out to be a
(03:52):
personal trainer and he falls into this kind of bizarro
entertainment world.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Started the production company with my wife and we got
very lucky, frankly to have the steam going and the
financing and everything. Fortunately, everyone really connected with the script
and the story.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, but what did you think of the script the
first time we saw it.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
I never read anything like it, and right away I thought,
this is wildly unpredictable. Didn't really know where it was heading,
and that's always a relief. There were no he didn't
tip the nose or tip the hat or any kind
of clue as to where this was heading. And then
all the way till the very very end of the film,
(04:35):
it's oh okay. And I love that the film didn't
satisfy any trope that has been long established with films
like these. Does the mystery get solved or does it deepen?
Or it didn't matter there is this is a comedy, mystery,
romp adventure action thing, and I and it's a high
(05:00):
ybrid thing and it's beautiful. I also just felt the
writing was just super honest and also very informed from
a very relatable place of resent towards Hollywood, towards Los Angeles,
towards big business corporations. I felt it was just very
(05:21):
honest and brutally honest about all that, and so it
was a breath of fresh air. I was charmed by it.
It was quirky and weird and out there, and I
was also I don't get opportunities to play roles like
this very often bold scheming, lying, cheating guys who are
(05:42):
fun to watch because they're headed for the inevitable crash.
And I really jumped up the chance to play a
role like this, and his voice was so succinct in
what Caleb broke, it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, how was that kind of finding your inner ratz
ol Rizzo to play next to Joe buck here.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
He's always been there. It's been in my grab bag
for a while, and I've brought versions of that out
into other characters where I felt it wasn't egregious to do,
but this one was just like the full on there's nothing.
There was no rules, There are no rules, and that
(06:25):
was the other thing was Caleb as a director was
kind enough to give me a lot of rope to
just play with just how deviant and dvs Randy was.
And it wasn't something that I had to invent, but
it was something I got the chance to really expand
on and it was a lot of fun, A lot
(06:47):
of fun.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I was going to ask, was there a lot of
room for play as far as the characters that you
guys are playing or were you pretty strict to the script?
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think both, wouldn't you say? The movie doesn't have
to be two and a half hours long, though, and
there is a longer edit of this film that has
all those playful things. But ultimately, what you're seeing is
mostly what was written, with the exception of a couple moments.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And obviously you've written, you've produced, You've done a lot
of things. You know, I can't tell you just acting
because again, your career spans decades now, which is wonderful.
But how is that for you playing the role of
both executive producer and one of the stars of the felt.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
I'm so grateful that they said yes when I said, Hey,
I want to produce this thing too. I want to
be hands on, had a sense it might be needed.
I'm at a point. It's the strangest thing. Man, I'm
at a point where I do find myself sometimes being
the most experienced person on a set in terms of filmmaking,
(07:50):
and sometimes by far. I knew this was Caleb's first film.
I knew or first film as a solo director. I
knew that there were a lot of people experiencing their
first go at indie filmmaking, gorilla filmmaking, if you will.
(08:13):
And so I've had experience doing all those things, and
I've seen things go wrong, and I've seen miracles happen,
and I would have been frustrated to not be able
to share that those experiences, share the knowledge that I've
gained from those experiences of the stuff, what to do,
(08:33):
what not to do, And they were kind enough to listen,
and I loved I love producing. Producing is like party planning.
It's like putting together a wedding where you're very concerned
about what your guests are going to think. It's not
so much about what the host wants, it's what ultimately,
it's what the guests are going to walk away with.
And I love that attack. It's a lot of fun
(08:54):
and a natural fit for me, so just grateful to
have had the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
How was it for you? Being the writer, the director
and in front of the camera for what fifty sixty
eighty percent of the time, that must have been a
little difficult.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
It was made more difficult by the spandex. Part of
the joke of the script is keeping this poor guy
in that suit as long as possible. And I was
obviously talking a lot on set. I was losing my
voice sometimes overhydrating, had to go to the bathroom. It
was a whole thing of undoing the zipper, redoing the
mic every single time. So it had its practical difficulties,
(09:32):
but ultimately, anyone who gets the opportunity I did is
extremely fortunate to tell a story that is very personal.
It's not based on me, really, The character is quite
different from me, but it's still it's a very personal
story that no one else was going to make. No
one else was going to write it or direct it.
So I tried to have fun with it. It's not
always fun sometimes, like David said, it's filmmaking, and indie
(09:55):
filmmaking particularly is difficult because of the time constraints. And
we did have a pretty healthy budget actually by indie standards,
but it's still difficult and shooting in LA can be
a little bit of a nightmare, which is extremely sad,
but that is the truth of the matter. Besides for
the tax incentive and all that kind of stuff, there's
a whole other smorty sportive issues around that. We dealt
(10:18):
with some of those and we got through it. David's
leadership was key. We had people like ROBERTA. Schaeffer, who
is our director of photography, who's done everything from all
the Mark Forster movies like Monstrous Ball and Stranger in Fiction.
He's done a James Bond movie, all the Christopher Guest
movies that we love, like Best in Show. He was
also great to have to be able to lean on
(10:39):
him and for him to be able to say, oh, Caleb,
this is a great idea, or Caleb, we can't actually
do this one. It's teamwork. Filmmaking is very collaborative. It
has to be that way, and fortunately I had people
who believed in the vision but were also able to
disagree when the time came, because those times do come.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
One pitched in and I'm really pleased with the result.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Tell me a little bit more about your crew. You
mentioned your DP, and I'm curious how the rest of
your folks came together.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
It's kind of like you hired the department heads and
then let them do their thing. Roberto hired Jim Planette,
who is a very famous scaffer, one of the few
famous scaffers probably gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Jim Planett.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
He's done everything from et to Braveheart to Ocean's eleven.
He's in his mid eighties, his energy level is off
the charts. He's an incredible resource. And not kidding.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
When I say he had more energy than I did
on our overnight shoots.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He truly did. So we were really spoiled with an
incredible crew. For me, it was just talking to department heads,
making a choice and then letting them do their thing.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Can you talk a little bit about the post process
on this The.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Post process was interesting because I had my first child
in the.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Middle of it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Actually, so I made I had a cut in the movie.
I felt pretty good about it. I stepped away to
be there for the birth of my son and be
there for those first several months, and when I came
back to the movie, it was like I just had
this whole new perspective on cutting, and that's where David
came in and the editing booth helped out try to
show the movie to a lot of different people. We
(12:18):
took our time with it because we didn't have any
external deadline, so we were able to really test it
out over and over. And the response so far has
been pretty positive about the movie, and I think a
big part of that is the fact that we were
able to take some time in post production and really
get it right.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
The jokes are really tight, and I was curious if
you had many test screenings in order to get that
material so tight and so well worked out.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
There were a few, like official kind of things that
we did, but a lot of it.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Was just having new groups of people every weekend to
my house to watch the movie, people who hadn't seen
who knew nothing about it, and just gauging their reaction.
We do that on Saturday, and then in the next
week editing have a different group come in the following
Saturday get their reactions. So it was just a lot
of that, and I think for a comedy it's necessary
(13:09):
because it is so much about the rhythm and about
trying to cut extraneous things when necessary, but also knowing
when to let a moment be a moment.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But there's no such thing.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
As perfection with this kind of thing, but it's an
intuitive led process. And yes, we were thank you to
everyone out there who saw a cut of the movie
and weighed in.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Have you had your premiere?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yep, yep. We premiered in Austin at the Austin Film Fest.
We were opening night and it was a raucous response.
This is probably the best way to describe it. I'm
just very grateful and humbled by the response in the room,
the response afterwards. We're starting to get the early reviews
and that kind of thing, and it's been awesome letterboxing,
(13:49):
the funny quips that people have about the movie. Someone
commented this is a big himbo movie, which I really
liked that comment actually, because it is so Yeah, it's
we had a premiere. We have some more stuff upcoming
as well. That's in the works. Hopefully we'll be able
to announce soon.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What was it like for you guys to see this
with an audience for the first.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
It speaks to the communal experience of theater viewing that
seems to be lost. But the wonderful thing about more
comedies being made, right. We were in this dry spell
of comedies for a very long time. Certainly studios stop
making comedies, and they seem to be making more now
(14:33):
they're reinventing it. And that's kind of the nature of comedy, right,
Like there's some bumps in the road of what's funny,
what works, what doesn't. But I think comedy is you
want to You don't want to laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
In your head.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
If you laugh in your house alone, does anyone and
no one's around.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
To hear you laugh?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Did you really laugh? Whereas in a theater it's this communal,
joyful experience. And so so it's nice to see a
comedy in theaters, and it's nice to be in that
comedy and watch people laugh at my work, and you know,
it's a bit of a party. And so it was great.
(15:12):
It was a great feeling. You worry about these things, right,
they're your little baby. You pour your heart and soul
into a very sort of precious egg, right that you
can't drop, and you got to be really gentle with
and so you worry, like, how is the egg going
to play? And is it going to come out scrambled
(15:36):
or is it still going to be intact, and our
little egg was really beautifully received. Everybody got everything like
no one missed a beat, and everyone was surprised by
the twists and turns, and everyone was very engaged from
the beginning to the end. It's exactly what you want,
(15:57):
So couldn't have gone better.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You're talking about seeing comedies in the theater, which I
completely agree with your feed off of that energy. The
last must see in a theater movie that I saw
also had you in it, which was Oppenheimer. Talk about
a difference of scope and scale between Oppenheimer and Forelock.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But mon and tone.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Yeah, nothing funny about that movie. I'm an eighties kid, right,
So it was two movies a weekend with my dad,
who didn't know what else to do with me. He
had customy custody if me on the weekends, and he would.
He was like, let's see whatever's out. He took me
to some crazy movies, nothing too scary and nothing too violent.
(16:37):
But I saw pretty much every eighties comedy, and I
just that is such a romantic thing and the it
shouldn't be nostalgic. It should still be happening and developing
and evolving now, whether it be because of the pandemic
or for whatever reason, we've sidetracked into home viewing and streaming,
(17:01):
and it isn't the same. It is not the same.
And movies are made to be seen in a movie theater.
Certainly with Caleb with making this film, writing this script,
having Roberto Schaeffer and Jim Plannett shoot and light this thing,
this was meant to be seen in a movie theater,
and it plays beautifully at home. Sure, movies are meant
(17:23):
to be seen on a large screen with people around you.
The movie's funnier if you can if you're not laughing alone.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
When you're talking about nostalgia, and there are elements of
forelocks that really speak to me as far as screwball comedy.
So much of the scene in the house, that big
set piece of the house. He's upstairs, you're downstairs, you're outside,
he's up all those different things so remind me of
some of our better screwballs that we have back in
the thirties and forties. So again I applaud that so much.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Thank you for picking up on that. That is something
a lot of people understand them Cowboy jumping off point
and the sting is in there, and some things from
the seventies. But I love Lubitsch. I love Billy Wilder,
especially my dog is named Billy Wilder. I love the
energy of Screwball. I think that it is it, you know.
(18:18):
I know the Cohens have some of that in there
in especially the first half of their career, and I
love it. I love the idea of just being mad
cap and raising up the hilarity and the absurdity all
the way as high as you can in the scale
and just then letting it fly. I didn't want to
(18:39):
be too cool for school with this movie and hold back.
I just wanted to let it be zany. And I
think that's reflected in the colors and like the bold
saturation and these primary red blues and yellows, and I
think it's reflected in the setups and the payoffs and
in the performances too. And one of the funniest lines
(19:00):
in the movie is in the bathroom of that house,
and it's a line with Randy in the bathroom. He
has some activity in there, and I'm not going to
spoil it, but it's something that Dave just came up
with on the spot. And there's another moment leading into
the chase scene that it was something that just before
we rolled cameras.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It was a line I gave to Dave, and.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I think we had a lot of it is built
into the script. But when you're in that spirit of play,
I think you open yourself up to hopefully mining the
material to even greater depths. So yes, I love the
films of the thirties and forties, and if there's just
a little bit of that energy, and for Lock, I'm
very proud.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
No, you can't be wilder.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
And I think Lubitsch is a lot of his stuff
is less seen, but Nanatchka and all these things where
it's about I like mix up humor.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's a really silly thing, but when it's pulled.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Off so satisfying that if they think you're supposed to
be acting, there actually why people get their wires crossed
and there's confusion and it's silly stuff, but hopefully it
does get our shared humanity and we're all a part
of this human struggle together.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We kind of pick up on David's egg metaphor from before.
I know, the chicken is hatched, but now you have
to nurture it. Now you have to get this movie
out there, get more people seeing it. You talked about
getting it out to different festival, different events and things.
But past that, do you have your next idea? Do
you know where you're going to go after this one?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm always writing and I have something that I'm zeroing
in on.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I can't say too much about it because it's just
at such a nascent stage, but yeah, we'll We're happy
to be promoting Forelock. I think we're probably looking at
some more festivals and doing it that way because we
do love the audience ground swell and building this buzz.
And then we would hope for it to be released
next year, maybe next spring or so. We'll see about
(20:51):
the details on that and then, yeah, the idea is
to just get the band back together and make another one.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
David, how about yourself? I know you are always working.
Where are you going to be up next?
Speaker 6 (21:02):
I'm in that Supergirl movie coming out June twenty sixth,
twenty twenty six, six six six. That's going to be
very exciting. I've never been in a superhero film before.
I've only been this is not a superhero film, but
it's just following me the whole Superman thing, and so now, yeah,
I play Supergirl's father. I'm Zorel, brother of Joorrel. Bradley
(21:27):
Cooper's brother has been established in the Superman film, which
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's very exciting.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
I got a couple other things, hopefully a horror film
I made last year in eight twenty four Horror from
cler will find its way to theaters, and a couple
couple other things in the works. So it's plugging along
as I've done for a long time, and I'm just
super grateful to still be alive.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Frankly, I'm glad you are as well. Gentlemen, thank you
so much for your time today. This was so great
talking with you. I'm very honored to make your acquaintance.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Thank you, Mike, Thank you, Mike, thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
Fast a little speed, and Mollie, you're able to eat
the tallest.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
People in a little single wound. A poor fool little
local motive.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I'm here, I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
There, I'm ever awhell, I'm always around. Well, Hell me
your Superman, getting your super on, little but ess out
of tail, helpbody your Superman.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
On, my super cat.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Take you long. I am wait, Jesus, uncle, step me
go super Man.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
No damsel in the stress. Now shut the phone booth.
And I will change for you.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But he's like you dimple in the dress.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Now he'll say it.
Speaker 7 (23:17):
But my name super Man, give a swer under the tail,
super MANA take aver my super hair, take your hand,
a hand Ma trees on a super.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Wow that speed burn.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Where you have to leave me able to leave my
times coning on im A b that look, I'm here,
I'm there, I'm getting way going.
Speaker 8 (24:09):
I'm the same my name Superman. I go shop ut
fucking now chance I care no Superman, Dad, take one.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Of my Superman call a super wait your man wake
Caesars go, I'm no Superman.
Speaker 7 (24:43):
Transport. That was being a boy. Cheer my name
Oh g is, folks, it's showtime.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
They want clothed soda, pop popcorn in no monsters.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
In the Projection Booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Got it off? Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode
(00:41):
of the Projection Booth. I'm your host Mike White. On
this episode, I'm talking about the movie for Lock. That's
f O R E l O c K. It's not
the fourth in a film series about locks. It is
a brand new movie directed and written by Caleb Alexander Smith,
and it stars David Crumhol as well as mister Smith.
(01:01):
It is all about a naive fitness enthusiast who looks
a lot like a particular superhero who ends up getting
a job over on Hollywood Boulevard and all kinds of
wackiness follows. It is making the rounds at festivals. There
is not really a poster or even a trailer for
(01:22):
this one, and as those rolled out, I will definitely
be updating folks on where they can see Forlock. I
had a lot of fun with this and I was
super happy to talk with mister Smith. And especially mister Crumholtz,
because I've been watching him since he was in Adam's
Family Values, so kind of watched him grow up through
(01:44):
the magic of the movies. Thank you so much for listening,
and I hope you enjoy this interview. Mister Smith, I'm
not that familiar with your work. Can you tell me
a little bit more about how you got involved in
filmmaking and especially how you came to be a writer director.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I moved to Los Angeles after college, where I studied film,
and I was very much my intention to be a
writer and director, and when I landed in LA what
actually got going a little bit more was acting. So
I've acted on a lot of TV stuff, Network TV stuff,
but all the while I was pursuing writing and directing.
(02:18):
I co wrote and directed the micro budget film here
nine years ago that made a little micro splash, but
that did get me representation, and I optioned some scripts,
sold some things, got very close to a few projects
before Forelock. Actually, it does seem like I'm new to
the scene, and I am in a way as a
writer director, but also I've been pursuing it for a
(02:40):
very long time.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And how did you mister Crumholtz meet.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
He was the right person for the role of Randy.
And when the first time we met was over Zoom
after we sent him the script and within the first
five minutes of talking to him about the story in
the project, it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Was obvious that this is the guy.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But despite the fact that he lives in New Jersey
now and I'm from New Jersey, we hadn't actually met
before this project.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
How did Black get going, where did the idea come from,
and how did it actually get made.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
I was in La New to La. Like many people,
I needed a side hustle and a side gig. And
what people kept saying to me, mostly ironic, although some not,
was well, you look just like Superman. You should put
on spandex, go to Hollywood Boulevard and take pictures of
the Taurus and get tips. And that idea stuck in
my crawl for a very long time, and I was
(03:31):
as I was writing other projects and things were some
things were selling, some things weren't. I had this idea
over time that I was holding back a little bit
and I wasn't writing something personal, and I wanted to
do something that was based off of my own experiences.
So that's when I wrote Forelock about this guy who
it's a flip of me where he doesn't want anything
to do with movies. He moves out to be a
(03:52):
personal trainer and he falls into this kind of bizarro
entertainment world.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Started the production company with my wife and we got
very lucky, frankly to have the steam going and the
financing and everything. Fortunately, everyone really connected with the script
and the story.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, but what did you think of the script the
first time we saw it.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
I never read anything like it, and right away I thought,
this is wildly unpredictable. Didn't really know where it was heading,
and that's always a relief. There were no he didn't
tip the nose or tip the hat or any kind
of clue as to where this was heading. And then
all the way till the very very end of the film,
(04:35):
it's oh okay. And I love that the film didn't
satisfy any trope that has been long established with films
like these. Does the mystery get solved or does it deepen?
Or it didn't matter there is this is a comedy, mystery,
romp adventure action thing, and I and it's a high
(05:00):
ybrid thing and it's beautiful. I also just felt the
writing was just super honest and also very informed from
a very relatable place of resent towards Hollywood, towards Los Angeles,
towards big business corporations. I felt it was just very
(05:21):
honest and brutally honest about all that, and so it
was a breath of fresh air. I was charmed by it.
It was quirky and weird and out there, and I
was also I don't get opportunities to play roles like
this very often bold scheming, lying, cheating guys who are
(05:42):
fun to watch because they're headed for the inevitable crash.
And I really jumped up the chance to play a
role like this, and his voice was so succinct in
what Caleb broke, it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, how was that kind of finding your inner ratz
ol Rizzo to play next to Joe buck here.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
He's always been there. It's been in my grab bag
for a while, and I've brought versions of that out
into other characters where I felt it wasn't egregious to do,
but this one was just like the full on there's nothing.
There was no rules, There are no rules, and that
(06:25):
was the other thing was Caleb as a director was
kind enough to give me a lot of rope to
just play with just how deviant and dvs Randy was.
And it wasn't something that I had to invent, but
it was something I got the chance to really expand
on and it was a lot of fun, A lot
(06:47):
of fun.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I was going to ask, was there a lot of
room for play as far as the characters that you
guys are playing or were you pretty strict to the script?
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think both, wouldn't you say? The movie doesn't have
to be two and a half hours long, though, and
there is a longer edit of this film that has
all those playful things. But ultimately, what you're seeing is
mostly what was written, with the exception of a couple moments.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And obviously you've written, you've produced, You've done a lot
of things. You know, I can't tell you just acting
because again, your career spans decades now, which is wonderful.
But how is that for you playing the role of
both executive producer and one of the stars of the felt.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
I'm so grateful that they said yes when I said, Hey,
I want to produce this thing too. I want to
be hands on, had a sense it might be needed.
I'm at a point. It's the strangest thing. Man, I'm
at a point where I do find myself sometimes being
the most experienced person on a set in terms of filmmaking,
(07:50):
and sometimes by far. I knew this was Caleb's first film.
I knew or first film as a solo director. I
knew that there were a lot of people experiencing their
first go at indie filmmaking, gorilla filmmaking, if you will.
(08:13):
And so I've had experience doing all those things, and
I've seen things go wrong, and I've seen miracles happen,
and I would have been frustrated to not be able
to share that those experiences, share the knowledge that I've
gained from those experiences of the stuff, what to do,
(08:33):
what not to do, And they were kind enough to listen,
and I loved I love producing. Producing is like party planning.
It's like putting together a wedding where you're very concerned
about what your guests are going to think. It's not
so much about what the host wants, it's what ultimately,
it's what the guests are going to walk away with.
And I love that attack. It's a lot of fun
(08:54):
and a natural fit for me, so just grateful to
have had the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
How was it for you? Being the writer, the director
and in front of the camera for what fifty sixty
eighty percent of the time, that must have been a
little difficult.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
It was made more difficult by the spandex. Part of
the joke of the script is keeping this poor guy
in that suit as long as possible. And I was
obviously talking a lot on set. I was losing my
voice sometimes overhydrating, had to go to the bathroom. It
was a whole thing of undoing the zipper, redoing the
mic every single time. So it had its practical difficulties,
(09:32):
but ultimately, anyone who gets the opportunity I did is
extremely fortunate to tell a story that is very personal.
It's not based on me, really, The character is quite
different from me, but it's still it's a very personal
story that no one else was going to make. No
one else was going to write it or direct it.
So I tried to have fun with it. It's not
always fun sometimes, like David said, it's filmmaking, and indie
(09:55):
filmmaking particularly is difficult because of the time constraints. And
we did have a pretty healthy budget actually by indie standards,
but it's still difficult and shooting in LA can be
a little bit of a nightmare, which is extremely sad,
but that is the truth of the matter. Besides for
the tax incentive and all that kind of stuff, there's
a whole other smorty sportive issues around that. We dealt
(10:18):
with some of those and we got through it. David's
leadership was key. We had people like ROBERTA. Schaeffer, who
is our director of photography, who's done everything from all
the Mark Forster movies like Monstrous Ball and Stranger in Fiction.
He's done a James Bond movie, all the Christopher Guest
movies that we love, like Best in Show. He was
also great to have to be able to lean on
(10:39):
him and for him to be able to say, oh, Caleb,
this is a great idea, or Caleb, we can't actually
do this one. It's teamwork. Filmmaking is very collaborative. It
has to be that way, and fortunately I had people
who believed in the vision but were also able to
disagree when the time came, because those times do come.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
One pitched in and I'm really pleased with the result.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Tell me a little bit more about your crew. You
mentioned your DP, and I'm curious how the rest of
your folks came together.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
It's kind of like you hired the department heads and
then let them do their thing. Roberto hired Jim Planette,
who is a very famous scaffer, one of the few
famous scaffers probably gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Jim Planett.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
He's done everything from et to Braveheart to Ocean's eleven.
He's in his mid eighties, his energy level is off
the charts. He's an incredible resource. And not kidding.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
When I say he had more energy than I did
on our overnight shoots.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He truly did. So we were really spoiled with an
incredible crew. For me, it was just talking to department heads,
making a choice and then letting them do their thing.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Can you talk a little bit about the post process
on this The.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Post process was interesting because I had my first child
in the.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Middle of it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Actually, so I made I had a cut in the movie.
I felt pretty good about it. I stepped away to
be there for the birth of my son and be
there for those first several months, and when I came
back to the movie, it was like I just had
this whole new perspective on cutting, and that's where David
came in and the editing booth helped out try to
show the movie to a lot of different people. We
(12:18):
took our time with it because we didn't have any
external deadline, so we were able to really test it
out over and over. And the response so far has
been pretty positive about the movie, and I think a
big part of that is the fact that we were
able to take some time in post production and really
get it right.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
The jokes are really tight, and I was curious if
you had many test screenings in order to get that
material so tight and so well worked out.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
There were a few, like official kind of things that
we did, but a lot of it.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Was just having new groups of people every weekend to
my house to watch the movie, people who hadn't seen
who knew nothing about it, and just gauging their reaction.
We do that on Saturday, and then in the next
week editing have a different group come in the following
Saturday get their reactions. So it was just a lot
of that, and I think for a comedy it's necessary
(13:09):
because it is so much about the rhythm and about
trying to cut extraneous things when necessary, but also knowing
when to let a moment be a moment.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But there's no such thing.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
As perfection with this kind of thing, but it's an
intuitive led process. And yes, we were thank you to
everyone out there who saw a cut of the movie
and weighed in.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Have you had your premiere?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yep, yep. We premiered in Austin at the Austin Film Fest.
We were opening night and it was a raucous response.
This is probably the best way to describe it. I'm
just very grateful and humbled by the response in the room,
the response afterwards. We're starting to get the early reviews
and that kind of thing, and it's been awesome letterboxing,
(13:49):
the funny quips that people have about the movie. Someone
commented this is a big himbo movie, which I really
liked that comment actually, because it is so Yeah, it's
we had a premiere. We have some more stuff upcoming
as well. That's in the works. Hopefully we'll be able
to announce soon.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What was it like for you guys to see this
with an audience for the first.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
It speaks to the communal experience of theater viewing that
seems to be lost. But the wonderful thing about more
comedies being made, right. We were in this dry spell
of comedies for a very long time. Certainly studios stop
making comedies, and they seem to be making more now
(14:33):
they're reinventing it. And that's kind of the nature of comedy, right,
Like there's some bumps in the road of what's funny,
what works, what doesn't. But I think comedy is you
want to You don't want to laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
In your head.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
If you laugh in your house alone, does anyone and
no one's around.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
To hear you laugh?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Did you really laugh? Whereas in a theater it's this communal,
joyful experience. And so so it's nice to see a
comedy in theaters, and it's nice to be in that
comedy and watch people laugh at my work, and you know,
it's a bit of a party. And so it was great.
(15:12):
It was a great feeling. You worry about these things, right,
they're your little baby. You pour your heart and soul
into a very sort of precious egg, right that you
can't drop, and you got to be really gentle with
and so you worry, like, how is the egg going
to play? And is it going to come out scrambled
(15:36):
or is it still going to be intact, and our
little egg was really beautifully received. Everybody got everything like
no one missed a beat, and everyone was surprised by
the twists and turns, and everyone was very engaged from
the beginning to the end. It's exactly what you want,
(15:57):
So couldn't have gone better.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You're talking about seeing comedies in the theater, which I
completely agree with your feed off of that energy. The
last must see in a theater movie that I saw
also had you in it, which was Oppenheimer. Talk about
a difference of scope and scale between Oppenheimer and Forelock.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But mon and tone.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Yeah, nothing funny about that movie. I'm an eighties kid, right,
So it was two movies a weekend with my dad,
who didn't know what else to do with me. He
had customy custody if me on the weekends, and he would.
He was like, let's see whatever's out. He took me
to some crazy movies, nothing too scary and nothing too violent.
(16:37):
But I saw pretty much every eighties comedy, and I
just that is such a romantic thing and the it
shouldn't be nostalgic. It should still be happening and developing
and evolving now, whether it be because of the pandemic
or for whatever reason, we've sidetracked into home viewing and streaming,
(17:01):
and it isn't the same. It is not the same.
And movies are made to be seen in a movie theater.
Certainly with Caleb with making this film, writing this script,
having Roberto Schaeffer and Jim Plannett shoot and light this thing,
this was meant to be seen in a movie theater,
and it plays beautifully at home. Sure, movies are meant
(17:23):
to be seen on a large screen with people around you.
The movie's funnier if you can if you're not laughing alone.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
When you're talking about nostalgia, and there are elements of
forelocks that really speak to me as far as screwball comedy.
So much of the scene in the house, that big
set piece of the house. He's upstairs, you're downstairs, you're outside,
he's up all those different things so remind me of
some of our better screwballs that we have back in
the thirties and forties. So again I applaud that so much.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Thank you for picking up on that. That is something
a lot of people understand them Cowboy jumping off point
and the sting is in there, and some things from
the seventies. But I love Lubitsch. I love Billy Wilder,
especially my dog is named Billy Wilder. I love the
energy of Screwball. I think that it is it, you know.
(18:18):
I know the Cohens have some of that in there
in especially the first half of their career, and I
love it. I love the idea of just being mad
cap and raising up the hilarity and the absurdity all
the way as high as you can in the scale
and just then letting it fly. I didn't want to
(18:39):
be too cool for school with this movie and hold back.
I just wanted to let it be zany. And I
think that's reflected in the colors and like the bold
saturation and these primary red blues and yellows, and I
think it's reflected in the setups and the payoffs and
in the performances too. And one of the funniest lines
(19:00):
in the movie is in the bathroom of that house,
and it's a line with Randy in the bathroom. He
has some activity in there, and I'm not going to
spoil it, but it's something that Dave just came up
with on the spot. And there's another moment leading into
the chase scene that it was something that just before
we rolled cameras.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It was a line I gave to Dave, and.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I think we had a lot of it is built
into the script. But when you're in that spirit of play,
I think you open yourself up to hopefully mining the
material to even greater depths. So yes, I love the
films of the thirties and forties, and if there's just
a little bit of that energy, and for Lock, I'm
very proud.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
No, you can't be wilder.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
And I think Lubitsch is a lot of his stuff
is less seen, but Nanatchka and all these things where
it's about I like mix up humor.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's a really silly thing, but when it's pulled.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Off so satisfying that if they think you're supposed to
be acting, there actually why people get their wires crossed
and there's confusion and it's silly stuff, but hopefully it
does get our shared humanity and we're all a part
of this human struggle together.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We kind of pick up on David's egg metaphor from before.
I know, the chicken is hatched, but now you have
to nurture it. Now you have to get this movie
out there, get more people seeing it. You talked about
getting it out to different festival, different events and things.
But past that, do you have your next idea? Do
you know where you're going to go after this one?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm always writing and I have something that I'm zeroing
in on.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I can't say too much about it because it's just
at such a nascent stage, but yeah, we'll We're happy
to be promoting Forelock. I think we're probably looking at
some more festivals and doing it that way because we
do love the audience ground swell and building this buzz.
And then we would hope for it to be released
next year, maybe next spring or so. We'll see about
(20:51):
the details on that and then, yeah, the idea is
to just get the band back together and make another one.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
David, how about yourself? I know you are always working.
Where are you going to be up next?
Speaker 6 (21:02):
I'm in that Supergirl movie coming out June twenty sixth,
twenty twenty six, six six six. That's going to be
very exciting. I've never been in a superhero film before.
I've only been this is not a superhero film, but
it's just following me the whole Superman thing, and so now, yeah,
I play Supergirl's father. I'm Zorel, brother of Joorrel. Bradley
(21:27):
Cooper's brother has been established in the Superman film, which
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's very exciting.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
I got a couple other things, hopefully a horror film
I made last year in eight twenty four Horror from
cler will find its way to theaters, and a couple
couple other things in the works. So it's plugging along
as I've done for a long time, and I'm just
super grateful to still be alive.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Frankly, I'm glad you are as well. Gentlemen, thank you
so much for your time today. This was so great
talking with you. I'm very honored to make your acquaintance.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Thank you, Mike, Thank you, Mike, thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
Fast a little speed, and Mollie, you're able to eat
the tallest.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
People in a little single wound. A poor fool little
local motive.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I'm here, I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
There, I'm ever awhell, I'm always around. Well, Hell me
your Superman, getting your super on, little but ess out
of tail, helpbody your Superman.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
On, my super cat.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Take you long. I am wait, Jesus, uncle, step me
go super Man.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
No damsel in the stress. Now shut the phone booth.
And I will change for you.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But he's like you dimple in the dress.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Now he'll say it.
Speaker 7 (23:17):
But my name super Man, give a swer under the tail,
super MANA take aver my super hair, take your hand,
a hand Ma trees on a super.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Wow that speed burn.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Where you have to leave me able to leave my
times coning on im A b that look, I'm here,
I'm there, I'm getting way going.
Speaker 8 (24:09):
I'm the same my name Superman. I go shop ut
fucking now chance I care no Superman, Dad, take one.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Of my Superman call a super wait your man wake
Caesars go, I'm no Superman.
Speaker 7 (24:43):
Transport. That was being a boy. Cheer my name
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