October 30, 2025 • 32 mins
Mike talks with author Mark Edlitz about his latest deep-dive into superhero history, Look Up in the Sky: The Forgotten Superboy Series. The book uncovers the behind-the-scenes story of the short-lived Superboy TV show (1988–1992) — a fascinating chapter in the Superman legacy that’s often overlooked. Edlitz explores how the series evolved across its four seasons, the creative battles that shaped it, and the actors who brought the Boy of Steel to life. From licensing chaos to Kryptonian lore, this is a must-listen for anyone who loves lost television history and the mythos of the Man of Tomorrow.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh he is boots.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's show tied.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
In the Protection Booth.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Cut it off, ur.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
He looks like any other nineteen year old college students, and.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Once you're doing anything foolish that might tip off where
you really are.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The girls think he's cute.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I really gotta go, but the bad guys think he's
a whim.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
When you do, college boy takes some get tough bills
and that's a mistake.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Now we're going.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Now the superhero of the nineties is here on earth.
Don't mess with Superboy.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
I'm your host, Mike White. It is the return of
Mark Edletsy is the author of many many books. We
talked with him about some of his work around James Bond.
He is back with a new book called Look Up
in the Sky, the Forgotten Superboy series. It is available
on paperback at Finder bookstores everywhere. I had a great
(01:33):
time reading this and a great time talking with Mark,
and I hope you have a nice time listening to
it too. How is your James Bond Scholarship going? Because
we usually talk about Bond, and I know if you've
written so extensive and continue to write about him.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Since we last spoke. I had two Bond books out,
both about the Continuation novels. One was a guide to
an overview of every Continuation novel, spin off novelization written
since sixty seven, and the other one was interviews with
all the living Continuation authors.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Did they ever do any adaptations of those books into
the movies or they just know?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The closest you'll get is a scene Inspector where Bond
is tortured through the ear, which mirror is a similar
scene in Colonel Son, And there's even some dialogue taken
from the book. But that's really as close as it gets.
(02:35):
And if you're a Bond nerd, which I say with affection,
you'll sometimes you go, oh, that there's a scene of
Bond on a train in a Continuation novel, and now
there's a scene of Bond on a train in a movie.
They got that from that. But even when it's even
more specific than that, I think it's generally just parallel thinking.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, Yeah, Bond's been taking trained since from Russia with Love.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, exact exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, we've been really diving into that with the ranking
on Bond Show, and just ran out of the books
so quickly. It's like, all right, I listened to all
of the novels and was comparing those versus the films.
But that happens to fall off pretty darn quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, pretty pretty quickly. Yeah. John Gardner wrote more James
Bond continuation novels than Ian Fleming did.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Does he capture that tone pretty well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
After the first few books? He's not even trying. I mean,
it's interesting because I in one of the books, I
talk about not just the novels, but like the history
of the novels, is the novels and how they came
to be and the purpose and function of them.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I really want to go back and reread the Lost
James Bond and just start to figure out what could
have been with some of those and then talk with
you again about that, just because.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh, sure, sure.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Anytime as I've gotten into this stuff, especially with like
the Dalton years and then getting into the Brass and stuff,
and like, okay, yeah, it seems like they could have
gone so many different ways, and even just hearing about,
you know, the way that the scripts were just about
to record Tomorrow Never Dies, and how that was originally
one thing and then it moved away from it, and
(04:19):
then they said, no, we're coming back to it, and yeah,
just to keep hearing about they wanted to do these
stories about Hong Kong and just never really got there.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It's like, Okay, Tom Anklewitz said that they would keep
sort of scenes or sequences in their draw in the
hopes of repurposing them down the line. And really with
a set piece, you can do that. Like I was
speaking to John Glenn, the director, and when you come
up with a stunt of James Verspyle love me, James
(04:50):
Bond jumping off the skiing off the cliff, you've got
that stunt, and then it's someone else's job almost to
find a reason why James Bond is skiing off the
cliff and it I mean, you come up with a reason,
but it almost it's a MacGuffin. You need to get
Bond running away from something to do it. And so
that's that's why you can take a little bit from call,
(05:13):
you know, from here and there and make a different narrative.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, the amount of skiing scenes are just incredible.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
They wanted to do a skiing with Craig and he said, no,
I can't imagine doing that. That won't look good for me.
You know the Roger Moore green screen of doing this,
But when I first watched them, I didn't see green screen.
I saw Roger Moore skiing down the mountain.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So how do you go from James Bond to Superboy?
Was it the George Lasenbie connection. No, for anyone listening.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
George lazim Vie appears in two episodes of Superboy or
The Avengers of Superboy as Superboy's father Joerel. Let me
explain what this book is and what the series is.
After the Christopher Reeve films in the late eighties early
nineteen nineties, there was a spin off series from those
(06:09):
Christopher Reeve movies called Superboy, later retitled The Adventures of Superboy.
A lot of people are not familiar with this show.
The book is called look Up in This Guy, the
Forgotten Superboy series, and it's forgotten for a couple of reasons,
including that it was not available anymore on DVD or
(06:30):
streaming for a long long time after it went off
the air, and my goal was to I just didn't
get it. I just didn't understand why the series existed.
I didn't understand what happened to it or under what
circumstances it was created and made. And like anybody with
(06:52):
a question like that, I decided to write a book
about it. I found it really fascinating because today we're
very familiar with Marvel and Star Wars taking their their
their their movies and turning them into TV series or
turning TV series into movies, or vice versa, and we're
used to that that connected connectivity, but in the late
(07:15):
eighties early nineties, that was much less common. It existed,
but it was much less common. And what they did
is after those four Superman films with Christopher Reeve ran
their their course, they spun off that that take of
the character in this in this Superboy series, and there
(07:38):
are four seasons. As I said, the first season stars
John Newton, a Superboy and Superboys got a roommate, and
there's Alex Luthor and Lanna Lang. Three of those four
people are let go after the first season, and in
the second season there's a new Superboy, Gerick Christopher and
(08:00):
then there's a new Lex Luthor and there's a new roommate.
The only person who survived that was Latin Lang. In
the third season, they leave their college setting. The premise
of it is Superboy in College, and then those are
for two seasons, and then the third and fourth season
it's almost like The X Files where Lana, Lang and
(08:23):
Clark are interns at the Bureau of Extra Normal Matters,
which is sort of like The X Files before there
was X Files and Bureau of Extra Normal matter is.
It's an acronym for beem or bug Eyed Monster, which
is what comic book writers would say to each other
(08:44):
here right in the beem or the bug Eyed Monster.
So each week there was a different bug Eyed Monster.
It reached four seasons, one hundred episodes, not syndicated. So
I was curious, how does wand decide to take a
successful TV series and then turned it into a TV show,
And it seems like a logical choice after the movies
(09:07):
around their chorus, then maybe you try to do something
like that on TV. Of course, Superman. You know, if
you're at a certain age you've discovered Superman on TV
with the Avengers of George Reives or maybe even the
animated Justice League series or super Friends series of the
nineteen seventies. But one of the cool things about this,
or one of the odd things about this, was that
(09:31):
Ilia and Alexander Salkind, who produced the movies, did not
originate the idea of the series. Instead, it was this
guy named Peter Marino who worked in Chicago. His claim
to fame is he is one of two DJs who
took a recording of Barbara Streissan singing you Don't Bring
(09:54):
Me Flowers and a separate recording of Neil Diamond singing
the same songs and merged them to together. Based on
the popularity of that, those two artists came together and
recorded them again. The reason that they did is because
a couple of DJs took this mashup. So anyway, he
(10:15):
was a Superboy fan, and he said, I think there
should be a Superboy series, and so he got in
touch with iliosol Kind and then his father Alexander met
with them, pitched the idea, and then off to the races.
The show was produced by Viacom and was a syndicated series.
(10:36):
So in the late eighties early nineties, you know there's ABC, NBCCBS,
and you would assume that a big property, a big
international property like Superman Superboy, would be a network show,
but that's not what happened. Instead, it was syndicated, paid
for by Viacom. And what syndication means is that they
(11:00):
had to sell it individually to individual markets across the country,
and that's what they wound up doing. But it was
a you know, sort of knocking on individual doors all
the way through to get market saturation so that it
could appear. And over those four years, while the show
started from the pre prime time slot from seven to
(11:22):
eight pm, it was moved around on the dial over
that course of four seasons, sometimes in the afternoon, sometimes
in the morning, and sometimes you know, two or three
am at night. And one you say that, well, that
hurts the ratings, but also the ratings were hurt otherwise
they wouldn't have done that. The original Superman film and
(11:46):
Superman at least part of Superman two were filmed at
the same time, over like a seventeen or nineteenth month period.
These shows were shot in five days sometimes less, which
I love how they thought that was a good idea
to take this format of you know, a year and
a half to make it a movie and try to
(12:08):
deliver those same thrills for five days or even less.
Sometimes they shot a show in three days. You know,
it's really incredible stuff. What was your history with the show?
What you got you interested in the show? And then
doing this book. I can't remember when I originally discovered
the series. My first book was called How to Be
a Superhero, and that was interviews with actors who have
(12:29):
played superheroes of the past seven decades, and I interviewed
John Newton the season one super Boy, and so I
remember watching all the episodes then, and that was the
first time twenty ten or so that I had seen
all of them. And since that time, I've been toying
with the idea of how do I write about the series?
(12:51):
Should I write about the series? And the book? It's
not a traditional guide book too. It's not an episode
by episode review and plot summary, although that was how
I started writing it, and the book didn't want to
go in that direction. Although there is obviously information about
each episode, it's it's not dense that way. It's not
(13:15):
there's two halves of the book. The first it's sort
of like you're the structure of the thinking about this
of the book is not unlike the structure of your show.
I was listening to to this podcast. I was listening
to either your Airplane two or your The Brave podcast,
and you said something like, and now we're going to
(13:36):
go onto the interview section of the podcast, and I thought, Oh,
that's it's sort of the same approach, where the first
half of this book putting the show and even the
character into some sort of context and tracing the history
of both the show and the character, and then the
second half is interviews. It's interviews with the all the
(13:57):
lead actors, both super Boys, Lana Lang, the shows writers
and producers, Ilia Salkin, and David Nutter, the director of
so Many pilot He is called a pilot whisper because
he has the greatest number of pilot episode shot to
series order like in the history of TV. He's done
(14:19):
Game of Thrones, he's done X Files, and one of
his first jobs is on the show. And I was
a little surprised that he was willing to talk to
me about the show. But he is nothing just given
the prestige of his career, but he hid nothing but
fond memories of it. But one other thing that was
interesting to me that I learned while researching this was
(14:43):
that so Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster created Superman, and
then Siegel almost immediately wanted to do a wanted to
do a Superboy series. He pitched it to d C
DC said no, thank you. Then he pitched it again
two years later, and they didn't even say no thank you.
They just they didn't respond when he went to the war,
(15:07):
when he went to serve the country or country in war,
they decided to do a Superboy book then, so they
took his original idea and pitch and approach and then
made a Superboy Sorry, and then he found out about
it after the fact, and so he sued. And one
(15:28):
of the funny to me aspects of this is that
the judge had to rule on whether super Boy and
Superman were the same character or distinct entities, because on
some level, the existence of super Boy negates the mythology
(15:49):
of Superman on a basic level of if there was
a Superboy in Smallville, they would quickly, you know, quickly
realized that Clark Kent and Superman were the same. So
but and legally they are separate entities, which I found amusing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Kind of sounds like is Jesus godsn or is he
his own thing? All right, Yeah, I can see the parallel.
I mean, we already have the parallels with Superman and
the whole Moses story.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah. That's how Michael Uselin, who executive produced all the
feature length Batman movies, created the first comic book course
by talking a person at a university who didn't see
why comics were even culturally relevant. And he just made
that same analogy that you did and talked him through
it and was able to get a comic book course going.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
As an aside, it doesn't sound like it was easy
to even track down these episodes to watch.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
The show went off the air in nineteen ninety two.
I want to say after one hundred episodes, which is
the amount of episodes needed for at that time for syndication.
You have one hundred episodes of a show, then you
strip it. And by stripping, I learned it's when you
play it every day at the same time, So from
(17:09):
three to four pm you'd play Superboy like you know
with Batman. That's how it was, you know from But
that's not what happened. They did not syndicate it. The
whole point of doing the show, which they barely squeaked
by making a profit during its initial run, because it
was an expensive show to produce, is to syndicate it,
(17:30):
and that's where you make the big money. But as
soon as that show was done and they reached one
hundred episodes, they did not syndicate it. So from nineteen
ninety two to two thousand and six the show wasn't
really available on TV or home video, and it was
only released in two thousand and six because of Superman
returns and they were trying to draft on the popularity
(17:53):
of it. But that's a long time nineteen ninety two
to two thousand and six for a popular character like
super Boy not to be You know, you have this property,
you have all these shows, you have one hundred episodes
released the thing, but they didn't for that long.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You already touched about George Lasmby. I seem to remember
there being some other really big name guest stars on
this as well, or at least big name for me,
people like Britt Ecklund or Gilbert Gottfried or Michael J. Pollard.
I know they're not you know, common household names, maybe Gilbert,
but I seem to remember that was part of their
whole thing, right. They had these guest star villains.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, as you just correctly said, George Lazenbi and Brett
Ecklin played Superboys Mom and Pa. Gilbert Goffrey played a
toy Man type character. They couldn't say toy Man, so
they called him Nick Knack. And there was even a
comic book spin off of the show that Gilbert Godfried
(18:56):
co wrote his comic book and my Michael J. Pollard
Academy Award nominee for Bonnie and Clyde was mixuplick. And
the show had the first live action Bizarro and I
want to say one more, oh abe the gooda wasn't
it Leif Garrett wasn't it? Yeah? They had some real
(19:18):
fun guest star Greg Allman, of all people, was in it.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It sounds like a very fun show to watch.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
The first season is a little uneven, which may or
may not be a charitable way of expressing that there's
a guy who was in charge of it and it
wasn't his fault. But he came from cop shows and
so you could say, well, the avenge of Superman in
the fifties, he was always fighting corruption, and that's true,
(19:45):
but this didn't feel This show, the first twelve episodes
or so really didn't feel like comic book super Boy stories.
But once they sort of cleared that up and then
chan showrunners, they brought in d C comic writers like
Mike Carlin and Andy Helfer and UH, and Stan Berkowitz
(20:10):
would be became a showrunner on it, and he was
a writer on all these would become a writer and
all these animated superhero DC superhero stories. Stan Berkowitz was
a writer on every DC animated series except for Batman
the animated series, but all the other ones he was
(20:32):
he was a he was a writer on and UH
and Julia Pistor was a producer on this. Anyway, they
they were very careful to do comic book type shows
in the best possible way. Comic book not meaning camp,
but comic book style stories. You know, super Boy looses
(20:52):
his power, there's a there's some really fun episodes. There's
one where Superboy takes over the world. There's one where
Superboy loses his powers. There's one where Superboy loses his
memory and starts living with a woman and her son.
(21:13):
There's one where Superboy and Lex Luthor are trapped in
a cave full of kryptonite. There's one where Superboy has
to relive Lex Luthor's childhood memories. So there's there's a
lot of fun stuff. And this book was written in
mind that you've never heard of the show or never
(21:34):
seen it, So it's not meant to be to serve
only those who have seen it. It's working on the
assumption that that most people haven't heard of the show
or only vaguely remember it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So was this a passion project for you? Or is
this something that somebody asked you to write?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
As you mentioned, I wrote four James Bond, four books
on James Bond, and that's a that is James Bond
is a passion. I wouldn't say super Boy series was
a passion as much more as a puzzle that I
wanted to solve. Watching the episode a one hundred episodes
several times, I did have tre I did learn to
(22:12):
have tremendous respect for you know, the writers, the producers
and the actors who did a lot with the material
they were given and the conditions under which they had
to make it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
How does it compare to Smallville?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well, it's interesting. There's there There is a lot of
discussion on did Smallville take anything from super Boy series.
David Nutter directed the Smallville pirate pilot, and he directed
more episodes of super Boy than anyone else. I think,
like twenty six. I'm off the top of my head.
(22:48):
I think that's accurate. I might be slightly and you
could say broadly they cover similar territory. There is an
episode of Smallville which is where super and Lex are
trapped in a mine together. But I don't think that
Smallville drew on this series. But they did draw on
(23:11):
the idea of a young Clark Kent growing up in
Smallville and what would that be like, and so as such,
there there is some overlap. But I just I just
posted something and read it in this Smallville discussion. How
many of you know of the Avengers of Superboy and.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And a lot of people did not, you know, the
whole idea of them being trapped in a mine. I
think back to so many shows where people are trapped
in an elevator together, or even the Planet of the
Apes TV show where they fall into a former subway
station and they're trapped down there. So you always got
to trap two characters together.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yes, yeah, I mean, that's you come up with an
excuse for that, and that's that's great drama. And that
also really was meant to be a bottle episode. So
some of the best app and yours will know that
a bottle episode largely takes place on one set, and
the idea is to save money. You know, you can
only go on location so many times, and then when
(24:12):
the producers look at the budget and go, no, we're
losing track of the budget. We've spent more money than
we intended to. At this point in the season, it's
time for a bottle episode and to get everyone caught up.
And as you're saying, that's really what the purpose of
it is is just to keep two people together smashing.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Is there a place where people can actually see these episodes?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Since two thousand and six, it has been finding there
are now ways to see it. You can go on
Amazon Prime to rent or buy episodes. I think it's
on YouTube as well as Apple. When Superboy Superman Returns
came out, they put out as a luxe season one
(24:57):
DVD and that is the weakest of the season. So
people did buy it, but they're like, eh, so they
they stopped, and so seasons two, three, and four for
years were not available until Warner Archive does a print
on demand feed, which is you know, and they basically
burn a DVD for you, but that's not really you know.
(25:18):
So it is available and it's no longer a piece
of lost media. But for a while it was a
piece of lost media, which is which again is striking
for a character as worldwide famous as Superman.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean we're still talking these days, well, especially
because it just won't go away. We're talking about Lois
and Clark still. I mean, we have the new movie,
we've had the animated films. I mean, it's just it's
amazing that there is a Superboy that's out there. We're
not talking about him. I wasn't really even familiar with
the show until gosh, I can't remember. There was a
(25:52):
book about mostly focusing on the lost you know, the
return of Superman and all all the attempts to get
that made. I know there was that movie as well,
the Death of Superman Lives What Happened or whatever that
was called, and I read about Superboy in that. But yeah,
(26:14):
before that, I had a vague memory of it, and
I think it was mostly Michael J. Pollard as mister
Mitchelplick and that was about it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
How many episodes do you think you've seen?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Oh, maybe two, three max. But reading your book though,
I'm just like, oh, I want to check this out now.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
One of the things that sort of the legacy of
the show is the the people behind the scenes and
the creators have all gone on to much but bigger things,
like David Nutter being the most the biggest example, but
it is to see this young talented team just sort
(26:53):
of finding their their voice and their and launching their
careers through this series, which which I think is kind
of which is kind of lovely.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I think where's the best place for people to buy
the book?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, you could get it everywhere, but Amazon's a
great place. And it's always helpful to me and to
any writer to give a five star review. It's really
one of the most generous things that a reader can do,
is even if it's even if you think it's a
three or four star book, is to give a five
(27:25):
star review. I mean, you're always saying this to your listeners,
is you know, more than anything else, just give us
a review on Apple, you know, so a five star
review on Amazon. In addition to reading the book goes
a long, long, long.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Way, and you are one of the most busy people
I know. What are you working on now?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Next? I'm working on a book on Orson Welles that
I think will fill a hole in Orson Wells literature
that is surprisingly lacking, given that Orson Wells, Hitchcock, and
Kubrick are probably the most well covered filmmakers of all time.
(28:06):
And so I found this little sliver of history or
maybe big sliver of history that has been unexplored, and
I've got a book and I'm really I'm really happy.
I'm very excited about that project.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, no matter what it is, I'm excited to read
it because I always love the work that you put
into this stuff and I love reading well stuff. So yeah,
we're going to have to talk again very soon.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That'd be amazing. And let me refer your listeners to
your Wells related podcasts, some of which are are hours
and hours long. And I also want to say while
we're recording, how generous and it is of you to
allow me to be on your show and talk about
(28:57):
my little book. That's very generous of you, and I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I dig your work, man. You do great work. So
thank you so much and thank you for your time.
Mark it is I was great catching up with you.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Thank you for having me the adventures of Superboy.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Exciting stories of Superman when he was a boy who,
even as an infant, demonstrated powers and abilities far beyond
the capabilities of earthlings. Superboy who was Clark Kent, my
old manned foster son of Martin and Jonathan Kent, preserves
the secret of his true identity and devotes his superpowers
to the prevention of crime, the preservation of peace, and
(29:34):
the pursuit of truth.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I can't wait to get you the scenery. Welcome Superboy
A bottle with the training under still love the Street.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
By No.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
You know you can't be last and thinking solid long
bas and you've got the chat Superb Summer Boy, So
my bad Superb Summer by Superpore Superb superbar I know
(30:45):
you love about a bad Superboy.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Look at them they wos a.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Stream pies no problem not the bottom of the ocean
hasn't known.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
On the ys guys.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Supermod lobs a classes by such a fast ul spot
to speak all bye and your son know you about
the man? And my mom said, I start my song, Shine,
(31:22):
super mid, super Boy, supermar Shine A supermall.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
S my boy, Shine, super.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So, my my so, my mother. That's some bad some
(32:18):
some of the ball Shine, some B.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Some my b.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
B, some my mother and some of boll Show, some
the BCA, some of my mother's on the mo
Oh he is boots.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's show tied.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
In the Protection Booth.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Cut it off, ur.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
He looks like any other nineteen year old college students, and.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Once you're doing anything foolish that might tip off where
you really are.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The girls think he's cute.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I really gotta go, but the bad guys think he's
a whim.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
When you do, college boy takes some get tough bills
and that's a mistake.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Now we're going.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Now the superhero of the nineties is here on earth.
Don't mess with Superboy.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
I'm your host, Mike White. It is the return of
Mark Edletsy is the author of many many books. We
talked with him about some of his work around James Bond.
He is back with a new book called Look Up
in the Sky, the Forgotten Superboy series. It is available
on paperback at Finder bookstores everywhere. I had a great
(01:33):
time reading this and a great time talking with Mark,
and I hope you have a nice time listening to
it too. How is your James Bond Scholarship going? Because
we usually talk about Bond, and I know if you've
written so extensive and continue to write about him.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Since we last spoke. I had two Bond books out,
both about the Continuation novels. One was a guide to
an overview of every Continuation novel, spin off novelization written
since sixty seven, and the other one was interviews with
all the living Continuation authors.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Did they ever do any adaptations of those books into
the movies or they just know?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The closest you'll get is a scene Inspector where Bond
is tortured through the ear, which mirror is a similar
scene in Colonel Son, And there's even some dialogue taken
from the book. But that's really as close as it gets.
(02:35):
And if you're a Bond nerd, which I say with affection,
you'll sometimes you go, oh, that there's a scene of
Bond on a train in a Continuation novel, and now
there's a scene of Bond on a train in a movie.
They got that from that. But even when it's even
more specific than that, I think it's generally just parallel thinking.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, Yeah, Bond's been taking trained since from Russia with Love.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, exact exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, we've been really diving into that with the ranking
on Bond Show, and just ran out of the books
so quickly. It's like, all right, I listened to all
of the novels and was comparing those versus the films.
But that happens to fall off pretty darn quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, pretty pretty quickly. Yeah. John Gardner wrote more James
Bond continuation novels than Ian Fleming did.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Does he capture that tone pretty well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
After the first few books? He's not even trying. I mean,
it's interesting because I in one of the books, I
talk about not just the novels, but like the history
of the novels, is the novels and how they came
to be and the purpose and function of them.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I really want to go back and reread the Lost
James Bond and just start to figure out what could
have been with some of those and then talk with
you again about that, just because.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh, sure, sure.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Anytime as I've gotten into this stuff, especially with like
the Dalton years and then getting into the Brass and stuff,
and like, okay, yeah, it seems like they could have
gone so many different ways, and even just hearing about,
you know, the way that the scripts were just about
to record Tomorrow Never Dies, and how that was originally
one thing and then it moved away from it, and
(04:19):
then they said, no, we're coming back to it, and yeah,
just to keep hearing about they wanted to do these
stories about Hong Kong and just never really got there.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It's like, Okay, Tom Anklewitz said that they would keep
sort of scenes or sequences in their draw in the
hopes of repurposing them down the line. And really with
a set piece, you can do that. Like I was
speaking to John Glenn, the director, and when you come
up with a stunt of James Verspyle love me, James
(04:50):
Bond jumping off the skiing off the cliff, you've got
that stunt, and then it's someone else's job almost to
find a reason why James Bond is skiing off the
cliff and it I mean, you come up with a reason,
but it almost it's a MacGuffin. You need to get
Bond running away from something to do it. And so
that's that's why you can take a little bit from call,
(05:13):
you know, from here and there and make a different narrative.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, the amount of skiing scenes are just incredible.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
They wanted to do a skiing with Craig and he said, no,
I can't imagine doing that. That won't look good for me.
You know the Roger Moore green screen of doing this,
But when I first watched them, I didn't see green screen.
I saw Roger Moore skiing down the mountain.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So how do you go from James Bond to Superboy?
Was it the George Lasenbie connection. No, for anyone listening.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
George lazim Vie appears in two episodes of Superboy or
The Avengers of Superboy as Superboy's father Joerel. Let me
explain what this book is and what the series is.
After the Christopher Reeve films in the late eighties early
nineteen nineties, there was a spin off series from those
(06:09):
Christopher Reeve movies called Superboy, later retitled The Adventures of Superboy.
A lot of people are not familiar with this show.
The book is called look Up in This Guy, the
Forgotten Superboy series, and it's forgotten for a couple of reasons,
including that it was not available anymore on DVD or
(06:30):
streaming for a long long time after it went off
the air, and my goal was to I just didn't
get it. I just didn't understand why the series existed.
I didn't understand what happened to it or under what
circumstances it was created and made. And like anybody with
(06:52):
a question like that, I decided to write a book
about it. I found it really fascinating because today we're
very familiar with Marvel and Star Wars taking their their
their their movies and turning them into TV series or
turning TV series into movies, or vice versa, and we're
used to that that connected connectivity, but in the late
(07:15):
eighties early nineties, that was much less common. It existed,
but it was much less common. And what they did
is after those four Superman films with Christopher Reeve ran
their their course, they spun off that that take of
the character in this in this Superboy series, and there
(07:38):
are four seasons. As I said, the first season stars
John Newton, a Superboy and Superboys got a roommate, and
there's Alex Luthor and Lanna Lang. Three of those four
people are let go after the first season, and in
the second season there's a new Superboy, Gerick Christopher and
(08:00):
then there's a new Lex Luthor and there's a new roommate.
The only person who survived that was Latin Lang. In
the third season, they leave their college setting. The premise
of it is Superboy in College, and then those are
for two seasons, and then the third and fourth season
it's almost like The X Files where Lana, Lang and
(08:23):
Clark are interns at the Bureau of Extra Normal Matters,
which is sort of like The X Files before there
was X Files and Bureau of Extra Normal matter is.
It's an acronym for beem or bug Eyed Monster, which
is what comic book writers would say to each other
(08:44):
here right in the beem or the bug Eyed Monster.
So each week there was a different bug Eyed Monster.
It reached four seasons, one hundred episodes, not syndicated. So
I was curious, how does wand decide to take a
successful TV series and then turned it into a TV show,
And it seems like a logical choice after the movies
(09:07):
around their chorus, then maybe you try to do something
like that on TV. Of course, Superman. You know, if
you're at a certain age you've discovered Superman on TV
with the Avengers of George Reives or maybe even the
animated Justice League series or super Friends series of the
nineteen seventies. But one of the cool things about this,
or one of the odd things about this, was that
(09:31):
Ilia and Alexander Salkind, who produced the movies, did not
originate the idea of the series. Instead, it was this
guy named Peter Marino who worked in Chicago. His claim
to fame is he is one of two DJs who
took a recording of Barbara Streissan singing you Don't Bring
(09:54):
Me Flowers and a separate recording of Neil Diamond singing
the same songs and merged them to together. Based on
the popularity of that, those two artists came together and
recorded them again. The reason that they did is because
a couple of DJs took this mashup. So anyway, he
(10:15):
was a Superboy fan, and he said, I think there
should be a Superboy series, and so he got in
touch with iliosol Kind and then his father Alexander met
with them, pitched the idea, and then off to the races.
The show was produced by Viacom and was a syndicated series.
(10:36):
So in the late eighties early nineties, you know there's ABC, NBCCBS,
and you would assume that a big property, a big
international property like Superman Superboy, would be a network show,
but that's not what happened. Instead, it was syndicated, paid
for by Viacom. And what syndication means is that they
(11:00):
had to sell it individually to individual markets across the country,
and that's what they wound up doing. But it was
a you know, sort of knocking on individual doors all
the way through to get market saturation so that it
could appear. And over those four years, while the show
started from the pre prime time slot from seven to
(11:22):
eight pm, it was moved around on the dial over
that course of four seasons, sometimes in the afternoon, sometimes
in the morning, and sometimes you know, two or three
am at night. And one you say that, well, that
hurts the ratings, but also the ratings were hurt otherwise
they wouldn't have done that. The original Superman film and
(11:46):
Superman at least part of Superman two were filmed at
the same time, over like a seventeen or nineteenth month period.
These shows were shot in five days sometimes less, which
I love how they thought that was a good idea
to take this format of you know, a year and
a half to make it a movie and try to
(12:08):
deliver those same thrills for five days or even less.
Sometimes they shot a show in three days. You know,
it's really incredible stuff. What was your history with the show?
What you got you interested in the show? And then
doing this book. I can't remember when I originally discovered
the series. My first book was called How to Be
a Superhero, and that was interviews with actors who have
(12:29):
played superheroes of the past seven decades, and I interviewed
John Newton the season one super Boy, and so I
remember watching all the episodes then, and that was the
first time twenty ten or so that I had seen
all of them. And since that time, I've been toying
with the idea of how do I write about the series?
(12:51):
Should I write about the series? And the book? It's
not a traditional guide book too. It's not an episode
by episode review and plot summary, although that was how
I started writing it, and the book didn't want to
go in that direction. Although there is obviously information about
each episode, it's it's not dense that way. It's not
(13:15):
there's two halves of the book. The first it's sort
of like you're the structure of the thinking about this
of the book is not unlike the structure of your show.
I was listening to to this podcast. I was listening
to either your Airplane two or your The Brave podcast,
and you said something like, and now we're going to
(13:36):
go onto the interview section of the podcast, and I thought, Oh,
that's it's sort of the same approach, where the first
half of this book putting the show and even the
character into some sort of context and tracing the history
of both the show and the character, and then the
second half is interviews. It's interviews with the all the
(13:57):
lead actors, both super Boys, Lana Lang, the shows writers
and producers, Ilia Salkin, and David Nutter, the director of
so Many pilot He is called a pilot whisper because
he has the greatest number of pilot episode shot to
series order like in the history of TV. He's done
(14:19):
Game of Thrones, he's done X Files, and one of
his first jobs is on the show. And I was
a little surprised that he was willing to talk to
me about the show. But he is nothing just given
the prestige of his career, but he hid nothing but
fond memories of it. But one other thing that was
interesting to me that I learned while researching this was
(14:43):
that so Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster created Superman, and
then Siegel almost immediately wanted to do a wanted to
do a Superboy series. He pitched it to d C
DC said no, thank you. Then he pitched it again
two years later, and they didn't even say no thank you.
They just they didn't respond when he went to the war,
(15:07):
when he went to serve the country or country in war,
they decided to do a Superboy book then, so they
took his original idea and pitch and approach and then
made a Superboy Sorry, and then he found out about
it after the fact, and so he sued. And one
(15:28):
of the funny to me aspects of this is that
the judge had to rule on whether super Boy and
Superman were the same character or distinct entities, because on
some level, the existence of super Boy negates the mythology
(15:49):
of Superman on a basic level of if there was
a Superboy in Smallville, they would quickly, you know, quickly
realized that Clark Kent and Superman were the same. So
but and legally they are separate entities, which I found amusing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Kind of sounds like is Jesus godsn or is he
his own thing? All right, Yeah, I can see the parallel.
I mean, we already have the parallels with Superman and
the whole Moses story.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah. That's how Michael Uselin, who executive produced all the
feature length Batman movies, created the first comic book course
by talking a person at a university who didn't see
why comics were even culturally relevant. And he just made
that same analogy that you did and talked him through
it and was able to get a comic book course going.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
As an aside, it doesn't sound like it was easy
to even track down these episodes to watch.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
The show went off the air in nineteen ninety two.
I want to say after one hundred episodes, which is
the amount of episodes needed for at that time for syndication.
You have one hundred episodes of a show, then you
strip it. And by stripping, I learned it's when you
play it every day at the same time, So from
(17:09):
three to four pm you'd play Superboy like you know
with Batman. That's how it was, you know from But
that's not what happened. They did not syndicate it. The
whole point of doing the show, which they barely squeaked
by making a profit during its initial run, because it
was an expensive show to produce, is to syndicate it,
(17:30):
and that's where you make the big money. But as
soon as that show was done and they reached one
hundred episodes, they did not syndicate it. So from nineteen
ninety two to two thousand and six the show wasn't
really available on TV or home video, and it was
only released in two thousand and six because of Superman
returns and they were trying to draft on the popularity
(17:53):
of it. But that's a long time nineteen ninety two
to two thousand and six for a popular character like
super Boy not to be You know, you have this property,
you have all these shows, you have one hundred episodes
released the thing, but they didn't for that long.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You already touched about George Lasmby. I seem to remember
there being some other really big name guest stars on
this as well, or at least big name for me,
people like Britt Ecklund or Gilbert Gottfried or Michael J. Pollard.
I know they're not you know, common household names, maybe Gilbert,
but I seem to remember that was part of their
whole thing, right. They had these guest star villains.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, as you just correctly said, George Lazenbi and Brett
Ecklin played Superboys Mom and Pa. Gilbert Goffrey played a
toy Man type character. They couldn't say toy Man, so
they called him Nick Knack. And there was even a
comic book spin off of the show that Gilbert Godfried
(18:56):
co wrote his comic book and my Michael J. Pollard
Academy Award nominee for Bonnie and Clyde was mixuplick. And
the show had the first live action Bizarro and I
want to say one more, oh abe the gooda wasn't
it Leif Garrett wasn't it? Yeah? They had some real
(19:18):
fun guest star Greg Allman, of all people, was in it.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It sounds like a very fun show to watch.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
The first season is a little uneven, which may or
may not be a charitable way of expressing that there's
a guy who was in charge of it and it
wasn't his fault. But he came from cop shows and
so you could say, well, the avenge of Superman in
the fifties, he was always fighting corruption, and that's true,
(19:45):
but this didn't feel This show, the first twelve episodes
or so really didn't feel like comic book super Boy stories.
But once they sort of cleared that up and then
chan showrunners, they brought in d C comic writers like
Mike Carlin and Andy Helfer and UH, and Stan Berkowitz
(20:10):
would be became a showrunner on it, and he was
a writer on all these would become a writer and
all these animated superhero DC superhero stories. Stan Berkowitz was
a writer on every DC animated series except for Batman
the animated series, but all the other ones he was
(20:32):
he was a he was a writer on and UH
and Julia Pistor was a producer on this. Anyway, they
they were very careful to do comic book type shows
in the best possible way. Comic book not meaning camp,
but comic book style stories. You know, super Boy looses
(20:52):
his power, there's a there's some really fun episodes. There's
one where Superboy takes over the world. There's one where
Superboy loses his powers. There's one where Superboy loses his
memory and starts living with a woman and her son.
(21:13):
There's one where Superboy and Lex Luthor are trapped in
a cave full of kryptonite. There's one where Superboy has
to relive Lex Luthor's childhood memories. So there's there's a
lot of fun stuff. And this book was written in
mind that you've never heard of the show or never
(21:34):
seen it, So it's not meant to be to serve
only those who have seen it. It's working on the
assumption that that most people haven't heard of the show
or only vaguely remember it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So was this a passion project for you? Or is
this something that somebody asked you to write?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
As you mentioned, I wrote four James Bond, four books
on James Bond, and that's a that is James Bond
is a passion. I wouldn't say super Boy series was
a passion as much more as a puzzle that I
wanted to solve. Watching the episode a one hundred episodes
several times, I did have tre I did learn to
(22:12):
have tremendous respect for you know, the writers, the producers
and the actors who did a lot with the material
they were given and the conditions under which they had
to make it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
How does it compare to Smallville?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well, it's interesting. There's there There is a lot of
discussion on did Smallville take anything from super Boy series.
David Nutter directed the Smallville pirate pilot, and he directed
more episodes of super Boy than anyone else. I think,
like twenty six. I'm off the top of my head.
(22:48):
I think that's accurate. I might be slightly and you
could say broadly they cover similar territory. There is an
episode of Smallville which is where super and Lex are
trapped in a mine together. But I don't think that
Smallville drew on this series. But they did draw on
(23:11):
the idea of a young Clark Kent growing up in
Smallville and what would that be like, and so as such,
there there is some overlap. But I just I just
posted something and read it in this Smallville discussion. How
many of you know of the Avengers of Superboy and.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And a lot of people did not, you know, the
whole idea of them being trapped in a mine. I
think back to so many shows where people are trapped
in an elevator together, or even the Planet of the
Apes TV show where they fall into a former subway
station and they're trapped down there. So you always got
to trap two characters together.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yes, yeah, I mean, that's you come up with an
excuse for that, and that's that's great drama. And that
also really was meant to be a bottle episode. So
some of the best app and yours will know that
a bottle episode largely takes place on one set, and
the idea is to save money. You know, you can
only go on location so many times, and then when
(24:12):
the producers look at the budget and go, no, we're
losing track of the budget. We've spent more money than
we intended to. At this point in the season, it's
time for a bottle episode and to get everyone caught up.
And as you're saying, that's really what the purpose of
it is is just to keep two people together smashing.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Is there a place where people can actually see these episodes?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Since two thousand and six, it has been finding there
are now ways to see it. You can go on
Amazon Prime to rent or buy episodes. I think it's
on YouTube as well as Apple. When Superboy Superman Returns
came out, they put out as a luxe season one
(24:57):
DVD and that is the weakest of the season. So
people did buy it, but they're like, eh, so they
they stopped, and so seasons two, three, and four for
years were not available until Warner Archive does a print
on demand feed, which is you know, and they basically
burn a DVD for you, but that's not really you know.
(25:18):
So it is available and it's no longer a piece
of lost media. But for a while it was a
piece of lost media, which is which again is striking
for a character as worldwide famous as Superman.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean we're still talking these days, well, especially
because it just won't go away. We're talking about Lois
and Clark still. I mean, we have the new movie,
we've had the animated films. I mean, it's just it's
amazing that there is a Superboy that's out there. We're
not talking about him. I wasn't really even familiar with
the show until gosh, I can't remember. There was a
(25:52):
book about mostly focusing on the lost you know, the
return of Superman and all all the attempts to get
that made. I know there was that movie as well,
the Death of Superman Lives What Happened or whatever that
was called, and I read about Superboy in that. But yeah,
(26:14):
before that, I had a vague memory of it, and
I think it was mostly Michael J. Pollard as mister
Mitchelplick and that was about it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
How many episodes do you think you've seen?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Oh, maybe two, three max. But reading your book though,
I'm just like, oh, I want to check this out now.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
One of the things that sort of the legacy of
the show is the the people behind the scenes and
the creators have all gone on to much but bigger things,
like David Nutter being the most the biggest example, but
it is to see this young talented team just sort
(26:53):
of finding their their voice and their and launching their
careers through this series, which which I think is kind
of which is kind of lovely.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I think where's the best place for people to buy
the book?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, you could get it everywhere, but Amazon's a
great place. And it's always helpful to me and to
any writer to give a five star review. It's really
one of the most generous things that a reader can do,
is even if it's even if you think it's a
three or four star book, is to give a five
(27:25):
star review. I mean, you're always saying this to your listeners,
is you know, more than anything else, just give us
a review on Apple, you know, so a five star
review on Amazon. In addition to reading the book goes
a long, long, long.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Way, and you are one of the most busy people
I know. What are you working on now?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Next? I'm working on a book on Orson Welles that
I think will fill a hole in Orson Wells literature
that is surprisingly lacking, given that Orson Wells, Hitchcock, and
Kubrick are probably the most well covered filmmakers of all time.
(28:06):
And so I found this little sliver of history or
maybe big sliver of history that has been unexplored, and
I've got a book and I'm really I'm really happy.
I'm very excited about that project.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, no matter what it is, I'm excited to read
it because I always love the work that you put
into this stuff and I love reading well stuff. So yeah,
we're going to have to talk again very soon.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That'd be amazing. And let me refer your listeners to
your Wells related podcasts, some of which are are hours
and hours long. And I also want to say while
we're recording, how generous and it is of you to
allow me to be on your show and talk about
(28:57):
my little book. That's very generous of you, and I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I dig your work, man. You do great work. So
thank you so much and thank you for your time.
Mark it is I was great catching up with you.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Thank you for having me the adventures of Superboy.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Exciting stories of Superman when he was a boy who,
even as an infant, demonstrated powers and abilities far beyond
the capabilities of earthlings. Superboy who was Clark Kent, my
old manned foster son of Martin and Jonathan Kent, preserves
the secret of his true identity and devotes his superpowers
to the prevention of crime, the preservation of peace, and
(29:34):
the pursuit of truth.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I can't wait to get you the scenery. Welcome Superboy
A bottle with the training under still love the Street.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
By No.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
You know you can't be last and thinking solid long
bas and you've got the chat Superb Summer Boy, So
my bad Superb Summer by Superpore Superb superbar I know
(30:45):
you love about a bad Superboy.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Look at them they wos a.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Stream pies no problem not the bottom of the ocean
hasn't known.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
On the ys guys.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Supermod lobs a classes by such a fast ul spot
to speak all bye and your son know you about
the man? And my mom said, I start my song, Shine,
(31:22):
super mid, super Boy, supermar Shine A supermall.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
S my boy, Shine, super.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So, my my so, my mother. That's some bad some
(32:18):
some of the ball Shine, some B.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Some my b.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
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