November 11, 2025 • 22 mins
Mike sits down with the sibling filmmaking duo Josh Holden and Nick Holden (a.k.a. the Holden Brothers) to unpack their sharp new dramedy Sell Out, which premiered at the Austin Film Festival. Shot in and around Austin and Louisiana, the film follows novelist Benny Dink as his career stalls, his love life unravels and a too-good-to-pass ghostwriting job forces him into a reckoning with art, ambition and identity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh, gee is boot It should die? People say good
money to see this movie.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want clothed sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Got it off.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
That, Yeah, what's wrong?
Speaker 6 (00:46):
What if my next book is not good or witty
and has no commentary and just kind of repeats itself.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm not inspired. I don't think I have anything funny
to say. It's horrible. I'm a little anxious.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
I've just been in a.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Funk in your gutter.
Speaker 6 (01:00):
No, she's pooping or really, I'm just having trouble writing.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Unless it's obstructing your colon.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
I don't know that I can help.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Oh, you should call me for a beer if you
wanted to ask.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I know.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Ten am New York Times interview. I think coming here
was a terrible idea.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
I mean, when did coffee shops become people's second home.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
This guy's doing me a favor.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
A favor I think said he wanted to do this.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Just don't ramble. One pm.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Drop off Lily at ex wife's and I think you
would agree that it's not my week. Danny, how's the
book coming horrible man, I believe in you won't good.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
I'll see you lave okay bye, We just abs are
not realistic when it managed to give up for abs
like that is not even worth it. Four pm.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Call my sister back. It's a lot to ask me
to come in.
Speaker 7 (01:42):
This is your sister's wedding.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Get your ass here.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Okay, so I I get your first wedding.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
I'm married for love, then sex, and now I'm marrying
for money.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Is there a world in which that's not considered selling out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Any bink one and only?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
What an honor to have you back.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
In our humble little too okay topic I have you
don't know?
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I love you girl.
Speaker 6 (02:08):
It's tooid you think he's a little stressed about the
state of the world.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm pro good, pro good, and it's I won't live
for life.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
You say you want to try?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
It all feels like I'm on a fast moving train
run straight off the tracks.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Sounds like a classic rock song.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
There ain't no nothing.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
I feel like my writing might never be the same again,
you know, And it kind of feels like it's one
of the sacred things I have.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We need more sacred things.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
In this world.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
There no nothing.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
I typically am wonder to ride the waves of the universe,
you know, But sometimes I feel like you just.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Got to say no so you can catch the next
big one. Do you remember my idea about the Old
Man and the.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
Sea, the book The Old Man in the Sea.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No, no, no no, It tips its hat a little
bit to the old man. The Old Man, right, old Man.
It's in English.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
I can't adapt.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I'm just throwing truth bombs, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Whether or not you accept that, that's entirely up to you.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth.
I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking
with Josh and Nick Holden. They are the writers and
directors of the new film Sellout. It is currently making
its way around the festival circuit. I had a great
time talking with the Holden brothers, and I hope you
have a great time listening to this interview. Normally I
would ask a couple of filmmakers that come on to
(03:38):
my show, where you guys know each other from. But
I have a feeling you might have known each other
for a long time.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
Nick got here first on the planet, and then I
came seventeen months later. We were born in Los Angeles.
Our mom was out there studying acting, and then she quit,
gave it up to raise us, and then moved back
to Louisiana, that's where she was from, and then we
grew up there, and then moved to Austin whenever we
were out of high school, and then been in Austin
(04:07):
ever since. I went to film school at ut eventually,
and then Nick went to Saint Ed's. So we've been
together the whole time, working together. We started studying acting
right out of high school and playing in a band
and doing all that, and then we started writing a lot,
and then we've just spent a lot of time writing
scripts and working on that together.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Tell me about that writing process. How do you guys
collaborate on that stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We're used to be in.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
The garage and write every line together.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
We've gotten wiser over the years.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Now we usually like to out try to come up
with a bunch of ideas and then I'll pitch them
all to Josh and which road do we or That's
how we started. Now we have so many scripts we've
done together that we can when we're thinking of something,
we are referencing one of the scripts. So a lot
of times we'll take stuff from scripts in our news scripts.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Now, once we decide on a.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Route, I'll try to do some preliminary work, talk to him,
he'll do some stuff, and then get in a room
and just do note cards and a beach and get
it up on the board, use it first act, second
A and B and third act, and then from there
we get that really work and then we'll do like
an outline for that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Read the outline and the beaching. The alle need to
take about a.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
Month and a half and then it's about a good
month and a half to knock out a draft and
then he reads it and then we sit in the
same room and we just go through it page by page,
rereading stuff out loud.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
So it's a good almost six month process. Yeah, and
that sell out.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
We were still figuring out our process when we wrote that,
But that's basically similar how we did it, but I
feel like it's a little more honed in.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Now, how did the Golden rut come about?
Speaker 7 (05:37):
We've been writing a lot of scripts, but all of
them would require bigger budgets to make, and we just
got to a point where he said, okay, we need
to make a film. We need to make a feature,
and we need to make something that is a low budget.
It was like thirty grand or so, and then that
we could shoot and pull off and just practice our
craft to see, okay, we want to make all these
(05:59):
big scripts we've written, but.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Can we pull it off?
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Kind of things.
Speaker 7 (06:03):
That was the first one where it was like, all right,
us attempting to make a film really for our friends
and family, in some ways our closest immediate community, and
we learned a lot. We learned so much.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
You're backed up against the wall a little desperate, been
saying we were going to make a film forever. We're like, okay,
it's nice to have some wisdom, to be able to
have some and we're like, who could we give any
advice to because we were like twenty seven twenty oh,
we could tell our twenty year old self what not
to do. Let's make a film about trying to make
it as an actor in dating, and that was.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Where that came from.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, and then we just ended up both acting
in ourselves because we were That's what we found so
far as we've never had really a budget to get
a lead actor for a feature, because all right, we
know both of us will show up every day for
as long as it takes.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
To keep on it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Where did sellout come from? Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think it came from a few ideas at once,
but some of it being in COVID being locked up,
the attention of the country, it felt so just like
it was about to burst.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And also COVID is just the end of the world.
There was time to that, we had little.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Babies, and then being a parent, and then also yeah,
just like our childhood, our friends in Louisiana and being
different on the same such a different page politically, but
that being in the news so much and it being
so amped up, but then when you see each other,
it's not quite as amped up, is maybe it feels
(07:29):
like in the news, So it's like you're not quite
as divided as they make it out to be.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So trying to just come to terms with all.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Of that, And it's a lot, it's a lot of
ideas in the script. It's a lot of different things
we're touching on.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
We were also we had been researching and writing the
feature for the ninety one governor's race in Louisiana when
David Duke beat out the incumbent Buddy Rummer. So we
had been deep in that for about three years, and
we wrote that feature, and that's a much larger feature
to make, and so we made it a pretty meta
(08:01):
where we leaned into us being writers writing that, and
we had been going home to Louisiana, and Nick and
I had been going back doing interviews, talking to people,
and so it just started evolving where this dnny Ding
character was going home and we were we were really
were talking to baristas and everyone for the sellout stuff
(08:23):
of just like the world just shifting so fast and
getting so expensive and all these things. We spent a
lot of time researching all that and filming, and then
we did a test shoot and we fill on some
scenes from the script, and we did a teaser, like
a ten minute teaser, and then once we found that
that helped us, we were like finding our tone there.
And then once we found that, we used that to
(08:45):
go raise money and attach actors and trying to get
the film rolling. That was around what Nick twenty twenty
two into twenty twenty two, perhaps sometimes around the Nick.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm curious as first how you balanced being in front
of the camera so much with being one of the
writer directors, and how do you work with your brother.
It was a lot of prep.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
That's why we did a whole ten minute tone piece
so we could just me and him shooting it, edding it,
cutting it, really figure out exactly what we want to do,
come up with a strategy, and then it's a lot
of lines that I'm saying, So I feel like I
just memorize the lines and then play with the actors
while I'm doing that, but lean on him to do
the overall direction and to lean on the camera. Then
(09:28):
we'll divvy up little things like I do a lot
of the wardrobe. I like to do the wardrobe stuff.
We'll split the locations, we'll split the casting. Just there's
so many things to do and there's so much going on.
It's just kind of and you have to do so
many roles. So it's just like to have someone that
you basically know will answer your call twenty four hours
(09:49):
a day, be there the whole time. I don't know
how you make films without that person. And we have
a lot of another team with two great producers, Morgan
Pollad and Jennifer Kouchai. They gave everything they possibly could
do this film. You can't ask people to give you
their whole lives for no money, but me and him
are putting everything. I'm so grateful for that to have
that kind of partnership and Michael Green who came to
(10:12):
So you get all these people that come and are
there ever production. Maybe they leave for posts, but they
but it's such an indie film, I feel like you
need a.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Partner like that.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
But I think we found Benny together before we started shooting.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I was really nervous to play the role.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
And that's why we did so much test shooting to
where everyone was like, yes, you got to do this,
this is great, this is great. So then it was
we could focus on other stuff. He'll be sat with
the camera. I'll be talking the actors, rehearsing with them,
running lines, making them comfortable, like dividing and stuff.
Speaker 7 (10:40):
And we learned so much on our first feature because
we're both in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I was only living bront of the camera a couple
of days though, which was Niger.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Yeah, and we had a small indie crew and it
was on sticks and you know, it was just moving slow.
And on this one we thought, okay, we found the
tone six or seven days into shooting The Golden Rush,
and we thought, all right, we don't want to do
that again. So we spent the time on this one
shooting that tone piece where we found the tone ahead
(11:08):
of time that we could show the actors everyone knows
coming in generally what we're going for. It ended up
evolving past that tonally, but and then we said, okay,
we're just going to shoot it on these GH six
like two thousand dollars Panasonic cameras with some anamorphic lenses
and just used two or three lights for the shoot
(11:29):
because that'll allow us to continue to shoot and be
able to be free whenever we don't have a crew,
just Nick and I can go around and shoot some
stuff in the b roll or the Louisiana stuff, or
the car scenes or things like that. So that's the
way we set out to make it and establish that
kind of handheld documentary somewhat documentary style tone. And then
(11:51):
we had two really great dp's Tailor Camera and Elephant,
and then they each kind of split up days and
came out for a certain amount of time, and when
they weren't there, I had some other young shooters who
were like Anna and Kyle and they would come and
shoot with us and all that. So it was just
overseeing the tone and all that.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Obviously, you have one of your main actress there all
of the time whenever you need them. But tell me
about the rest of your cast. How did they come together?
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Over the years, we've got in the Austin film scene
and we just have Jimmy Gonza's old friend being in
the scene.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
We've really maintained.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Relationships with people and hung out with them all. So
we were writing a lot of roles for him, and
then when the time came, it was like, hey, do
you all want to do some We send the teachers,
like let's do this. And we didn't know Adrian Plocki,
but our friend did and she was into the project
and she had some free time. So it was really
just a cool and we did take our time and
really waited patiently to cast. We really were like, hey,
let's just wait the perfect person comes.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
And Sarah Dowling. We got Sarah. She's a local casting agent.
For a while, she helped us a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
On my side cast members. We wrote the part with
Stephanie Hunt and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Jimmy and Gabe I had seen the teaser and reached
out and said, word my part. So we were like, oh,
we got a part for you. Bill Wise, we've worked
with a Ton. We had an O series with him
called The gil Webshow where he was like a kind
of belligerent drunk who didn't know who he was interviewing,
and he was interviewing musicians.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And we love working with Bill. He's so funny.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
So we always worked with Bill and our mom. We
casted our mom as the mom and Nick's daughter as
the daughter.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, Nick, your character is neurotic and you are channeling
a little Albert Brooks for me, some of those earlier
Albert Brooks. How do you get yourself in that headspace
of just that continual self doubting, kind of manic state.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Oh, I just picked up the newspaper, watch a little
news for a few minutes, and I read a lot
of political history, Like I'll just I like to read
a lot of times I breakfast, all these different politicals.
So I just tried to get myself in that headspace.
And it's not hard, especially at that particular time.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I imagine even today you could probably get in that
headspace pretty easily.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Now, I feel like right now and all the pressures
of you know, stuff is just easy to spin out.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It's a fun role to play. Actually, that's a fun,
fun character.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
What were some of your biggest challenges making this movie,
because I know making an independent film is not easy.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think they're raising the money was really hard because
when we moved to Austin, we didn't We just started
hanging out with all these really cool artists. They were
all waiting tables and just man, these are the coolest people.
We had come from Louisiana and they're really one as
many artists that we knew. So we're just hanging out
with those people. And then we was like, oh, we
need to raise some money. Oh, we don't really know
very many wealthy people, much less cool wealthy people.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So then we were like, oh, damn, we need to
learn how to raise some money.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
So that's been a long time of trying to build
networks and then finding the really cool people that have
some money that are into the arts.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
That was super hard.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
And then the editing was we didn't have much money
for posts, so we're just juggling so many different jobs,
editing trying to be patient because we were like I
feel like there's this film plays differently a different huh.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
We felt like right after the election, like all.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Last Spring went a really great time to put it out.
So just try to be patient and just trying to
really take our time. There's such a tendency to want
to rush to finish the film for a festival, and
my kind of mentors have said, don't ever do that.
Get the film right, and so there is that tendency
of oh, we should get it out as soon as
we can. Also, we need jobs, so the quicker we
get to film in the festival, maybe we could get
(15:25):
some other jobs.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So there is that teb is like just being patient.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Lear need to just stay real patient and get the
film right because it lives on forever.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I think that was the hardest part. Yeah, I think
fundraising is the hardest part.
Speaker 7 (15:36):
It's challenging in that we were raising money as we
were shooting, and as we're locking in cast, we didn't
have a solid crew or all over our locatients to
me and Jennifer and Morgan and Nick were in Jennifer's
kitchen trying to schedule all the actors traveling and the locations,
and we didn't even have the budget fully raised yet
(16:00):
couple days in shooting, so it was scary, but it
was also one of those things where it was like, man,
if we wouldn't have done that and we didn't just
put the pedal to the metal, it would have never
gotten made.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And it ended up working out.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Were you shooting this piece meal weekends, evenings, that kind
of stuff, where did you actually have a full block
of shooting time.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
We were doing a lot of piece mealing, and we
would shoot some days we just do two hours of shooting,
and it's just because sometimes it was just two people
crew or something, and then other days, once things started
to roll and once we raised more of the money
to shoot the film, then we started scheduling and did
certainly maybe I don't know how many days we did,
but then we scheduled some proper days shot along And did.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You guys edit this yourself or did you have somebody helping?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
We have an editor with us, Michael Green, and Michael
was there from the beginning. Nick and I created the
tone and the pacing, and then we divvied up scenes
with Michael and created an assembly together which was about
a three hour assembly. Yeah, and we said, no one
wants to watch to three hour comedy concluding me. So
we went through and then it took us maybe six
(17:05):
months or so to cut that down to two hours,
and then we brought on in front of ours Tony Costello,
and he helped us trim another ten minutes out, which
was really helpful because once you get onto that like
one forty five and we were trying to get to
ninety minutes, we're just so close to it was so hard.
And then we spent another couple of months just chipping
(17:26):
away at it, screening it, watching it with audiences and
seeing test screenings and seeing what's working and what's not.
And then it took us.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
A good probably two years to.
Speaker 7 (17:36):
Do because also because we were doing the music with
our friend Mario Mattioli, and we would do that at
my house here every like Wednesday night because he is
a job so I filled two hours every Wednesday night
we'd work on the music, and we were just had
to chip away as because we were also doing production
work and jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And stuff like that and have kids.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And so yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I was going to ask if you guys had seen
this with then audience, but it sounds like that was
a really valuable part to cut this down and really
hone that to what we end up seeing today.
Speaker 6 (18:07):
We did a couple of test screenings really helped because
there was a lot to whittle down.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
And I find too with test screenings it's so helpful
to watch with an audience because you just get your
blinders on after a while and you don't even need feedback.
You just watch it with them and you're like, Okay,
I can see where this is dragging, where that's not working.
Have you just feeling in the room with them. It
helps so much.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
When did you guys have your premiere or is that
yet to come?
Speaker 6 (18:32):
We had the premiere Thursday, October twenty third, terrific screening,
terrific audience. People really loved it, and then we'll have
a screening October thirtieth at the Galaxy seventh I think.
Then next we'll play Lone Star November fifth at six
pm in Fort Worth and then we'll play Lafay at
Louisiana November fifteenth at two thirty pm.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So those are the next two screens we have coming up.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Audience Austin definitely really seemed to love the film, so
it'll be nice to interesting to play in some other places.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Too. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'll be nice going back to the hometown.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
Yeah, I see what people think. They're all messaging, they're
all excited. And then we're gonna try to get a
New York screen. We're talking to some vessels in New
York and LA and talking to some sales agents and
hopefully distributed next spring.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Is there a good place for people to keep up
with you guys in the movie on Instagram?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
We're at Sellout movie and then also the brothers holding,
so brothers with an S and then holding that's a
pretty good place for us. We usually keeping at least
definitely someone's keeping the sellout page going, and then we'll
try to repost as much as we can.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Nick and Josh, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
This was great, Mike, thanks for doing that.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Thanks great.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well. Then a use be yours come from my own back.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Show me boy.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
We men around so many years. I'm good and give
them above.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Losch.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'm going this well, my wa John, something I can
big song. Look at my dollar ju I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
To say, look at.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
My shufing up?
Speaker 5 (20:44):
So why is so.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well given to my share?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Why is so well?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Mean?
Speaker 5 (21:26):
Simply what you like.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I don't know, man, I'm aware sin.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Now where it's not out of.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Your coffee door is open? Now, what will say somewhere
why it's so well well mean time you get to
myself like a so, why it's so Where we'll pay
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah,
Oh, gee is boot It should die? People say good
money to see this movie.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want clothed sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Got it off.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
That, Yeah, what's wrong?
Speaker 6 (00:46):
What if my next book is not good or witty
and has no commentary and just kind of repeats itself.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm not inspired. I don't think I have anything funny
to say. It's horrible. I'm a little anxious.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
I've just been in a.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Funk in your gutter.
Speaker 6 (01:00):
No, she's pooping or really, I'm just having trouble writing.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Unless it's obstructing your colon.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
I don't know that I can help.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Oh, you should call me for a beer if you
wanted to ask.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I know.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Ten am New York Times interview. I think coming here
was a terrible idea.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
I mean, when did coffee shops become people's second home.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
This guy's doing me a favor.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
A favor I think said he wanted to do this.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Just don't ramble. One pm.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Drop off Lily at ex wife's and I think you
would agree that it's not my week. Danny, how's the
book coming horrible man, I believe in you won't good.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
I'll see you lave okay bye, We just abs are
not realistic when it managed to give up for abs
like that is not even worth it. Four pm.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Call my sister back. It's a lot to ask me
to come in.
Speaker 7 (01:42):
This is your sister's wedding.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Get your ass here.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Okay, so I I get your first wedding.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
I'm married for love, then sex, and now I'm marrying
for money.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Is there a world in which that's not considered selling out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Any bink one and only?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
What an honor to have you back.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
In our humble little too okay topic I have you
don't know?
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I love you girl.
Speaker 6 (02:08):
It's tooid you think he's a little stressed about the
state of the world.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm pro good, pro good, and it's I won't live
for life.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
You say you want to try?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
It all feels like I'm on a fast moving train
run straight off the tracks.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Sounds like a classic rock song.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
There ain't no nothing.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
I feel like my writing might never be the same again,
you know, And it kind of feels like it's one
of the sacred things I have.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We need more sacred things.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
In this world.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
There no nothing.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
I typically am wonder to ride the waves of the universe,
you know, But sometimes I feel like you just.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Got to say no so you can catch the next
big one. Do you remember my idea about the Old
Man and the.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
Sea, the book The Old Man in the Sea.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No, no, no no, It tips its hat a little
bit to the old man. The Old Man, right, old Man.
It's in English.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
I can't adapt.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I'm just throwing truth bombs, all right.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Whether or not you accept that, that's entirely up to you.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth.
I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking
with Josh and Nick Holden. They are the writers and
directors of the new film Sellout. It is currently making
its way around the festival circuit. I had a great
time talking with the Holden brothers, and I hope you
have a great time listening to this interview. Normally I
would ask a couple of filmmakers that come on to
(03:38):
my show, where you guys know each other from. But
I have a feeling you might have known each other
for a long time.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
Nick got here first on the planet, and then I
came seventeen months later. We were born in Los Angeles.
Our mom was out there studying acting, and then she quit,
gave it up to raise us, and then moved back
to Louisiana, that's where she was from, and then we
grew up there, and then moved to Austin whenever we
were out of high school, and then been in Austin
(04:07):
ever since. I went to film school at ut eventually,
and then Nick went to Saint Ed's. So we've been
together the whole time, working together. We started studying acting
right out of high school and playing in a band
and doing all that, and then we started writing a lot,
and then we've just spent a lot of time writing
scripts and working on that together.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Tell me about that writing process. How do you guys
collaborate on that stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We're used to be in.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
The garage and write every line together.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
We've gotten wiser over the years.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Now we usually like to out try to come up
with a bunch of ideas and then I'll pitch them
all to Josh and which road do we or That's
how we started. Now we have so many scripts we've
done together that we can when we're thinking of something,
we are referencing one of the scripts. So a lot
of times we'll take stuff from scripts in our news scripts.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Now, once we decide on a.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Route, I'll try to do some preliminary work, talk to him,
he'll do some stuff, and then get in a room
and just do note cards and a beach and get
it up on the board, use it first act, second
A and B and third act, and then from there
we get that really work and then we'll do like
an outline for that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Read the outline and the beaching. The alle need to
take about a.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
Month and a half and then it's about a good
month and a half to knock out a draft and
then he reads it and then we sit in the
same room and we just go through it page by page,
rereading stuff out loud.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
So it's a good almost six month process. Yeah, and
that sell out.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
We were still figuring out our process when we wrote that,
But that's basically similar how we did it, but I
feel like it's a little more honed in.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Now, how did the Golden rut come about?
Speaker 7 (05:37):
We've been writing a lot of scripts, but all of
them would require bigger budgets to make, and we just
got to a point where he said, okay, we need
to make a film. We need to make a feature,
and we need to make something that is a low budget.
It was like thirty grand or so, and then that
we could shoot and pull off and just practice our
craft to see, okay, we want to make all these
(05:59):
big scripts we've written, but.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Can we pull it off?
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Kind of things.
Speaker 7 (06:03):
That was the first one where it was like, all right,
us attempting to make a film really for our friends
and family, in some ways our closest immediate community, and
we learned a lot. We learned so much.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
You're backed up against the wall a little desperate, been
saying we were going to make a film forever. We're like, okay,
it's nice to have some wisdom, to be able to
have some and we're like, who could we give any
advice to because we were like twenty seven twenty oh,
we could tell our twenty year old self what not
to do. Let's make a film about trying to make
it as an actor in dating, and that was.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Where that came from.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, and then we just ended up both acting
in ourselves because we were That's what we found so
far as we've never had really a budget to get
a lead actor for a feature, because all right, we
know both of us will show up every day for
as long as it takes.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
To keep on it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Where did sellout come from? Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think it came from a few ideas at once,
but some of it being in COVID being locked up,
the attention of the country, it felt so just like
it was about to burst.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And also COVID is just the end of the world.
There was time to that, we had little.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Babies, and then being a parent, and then also yeah,
just like our childhood, our friends in Louisiana and being
different on the same such a different page politically, but
that being in the news so much and it being
so amped up, but then when you see each other,
it's not quite as amped up, is maybe it feels
(07:29):
like in the news, So it's like you're not quite
as divided as they make it out to be.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So trying to just come to terms with all.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Of that, And it's a lot, it's a lot of
ideas in the script. It's a lot of different things
we're touching on.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
We were also we had been researching and writing the
feature for the ninety one governor's race in Louisiana when
David Duke beat out the incumbent Buddy Rummer. So we
had been deep in that for about three years, and
we wrote that feature, and that's a much larger feature
to make, and so we made it a pretty meta
(08:01):
where we leaned into us being writers writing that, and
we had been going home to Louisiana, and Nick and
I had been going back doing interviews, talking to people,
and so it just started evolving where this dnny Ding
character was going home and we were we were really
were talking to baristas and everyone for the sellout stuff
(08:23):
of just like the world just shifting so fast and
getting so expensive and all these things. We spent a
lot of time researching all that and filming, and then
we did a test shoot and we fill on some
scenes from the script, and we did a teaser, like
a ten minute teaser, and then once we found that
that helped us, we were like finding our tone there.
And then once we found that, we used that to
(08:45):
go raise money and attach actors and trying to get
the film rolling. That was around what Nick twenty twenty
two into twenty twenty two, perhaps sometimes around the Nick.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm curious as first how you balanced being in front
of the camera so much with being one of the
writer directors, and how do you work with your brother.
It was a lot of prep.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
That's why we did a whole ten minute tone piece
so we could just me and him shooting it, edding it,
cutting it, really figure out exactly what we want to do,
come up with a strategy, and then it's a lot
of lines that I'm saying, So I feel like I
just memorize the lines and then play with the actors
while I'm doing that, but lean on him to do
the overall direction and to lean on the camera. Then
(09:28):
we'll divvy up little things like I do a lot
of the wardrobe. I like to do the wardrobe stuff.
We'll split the locations, we'll split the casting. Just there's
so many things to do and there's so much going on.
It's just kind of and you have to do so
many roles. So it's just like to have someone that
you basically know will answer your call twenty four hours
(09:49):
a day, be there the whole time. I don't know
how you make films without that person. And we have
a lot of another team with two great producers, Morgan
Pollad and Jennifer Kouchai. They gave everything they possibly could
do this film. You can't ask people to give you
their whole lives for no money, but me and him
are putting everything. I'm so grateful for that to have
that kind of partnership and Michael Green who came to
(10:12):
So you get all these people that come and are
there ever production. Maybe they leave for posts, but they
but it's such an indie film, I feel like you
need a.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Partner like that.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
But I think we found Benny together before we started shooting.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I was really nervous to play the role.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
And that's why we did so much test shooting to
where everyone was like, yes, you got to do this,
this is great, this is great. So then it was
we could focus on other stuff. He'll be sat with
the camera. I'll be talking the actors, rehearsing with them,
running lines, making them comfortable, like dividing and stuff.
Speaker 7 (10:40):
And we learned so much on our first feature because
we're both in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I was only living bront of the camera a couple
of days though, which was Niger.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Yeah, and we had a small indie crew and it
was on sticks and you know, it was just moving slow.
And on this one we thought, okay, we found the
tone six or seven days into shooting The Golden Rush,
and we thought, all right, we don't want to do
that again. So we spent the time on this one
shooting that tone piece where we found the tone ahead
(11:08):
of time that we could show the actors everyone knows
coming in generally what we're going for. It ended up
evolving past that tonally, but and then we said, okay,
we're just going to shoot it on these GH six
like two thousand dollars Panasonic cameras with some anamorphic lenses
and just used two or three lights for the shoot
(11:29):
because that'll allow us to continue to shoot and be
able to be free whenever we don't have a crew,
just Nick and I can go around and shoot some
stuff in the b roll or the Louisiana stuff, or
the car scenes or things like that. So that's the
way we set out to make it and establish that
kind of handheld documentary somewhat documentary style tone. And then
(11:51):
we had two really great dp's Tailor Camera and Elephant,
and then they each kind of split up days and
came out for a certain amount of time, and when
they weren't there, I had some other young shooters who
were like Anna and Kyle and they would come and
shoot with us and all that. So it was just
overseeing the tone and all that.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Obviously, you have one of your main actress there all
of the time whenever you need them. But tell me
about the rest of your cast. How did they come together?
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Over the years, we've got in the Austin film scene
and we just have Jimmy Gonza's old friend being in
the scene.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
We've really maintained.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Relationships with people and hung out with them all. So
we were writing a lot of roles for him, and
then when the time came, it was like, hey, do
you all want to do some We send the teachers,
like let's do this. And we didn't know Adrian Plocki,
but our friend did and she was into the project
and she had some free time. So it was really
just a cool and we did take our time and
really waited patiently to cast. We really were like, hey,
let's just wait the perfect person comes.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
And Sarah Dowling. We got Sarah. She's a local casting agent.
For a while, she helped us a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
On my side cast members. We wrote the part with
Stephanie Hunt and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Jimmy and Gabe I had seen the teaser and reached
out and said, word my part. So we were like, oh,
we got a part for you. Bill Wise, we've worked
with a Ton. We had an O series with him
called The gil Webshow where he was like a kind
of belligerent drunk who didn't know who he was interviewing,
and he was interviewing musicians.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And we love working with Bill. He's so funny.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
So we always worked with Bill and our mom. We
casted our mom as the mom and Nick's daughter as
the daughter.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, Nick, your character is neurotic and you are channeling
a little Albert Brooks for me, some of those earlier
Albert Brooks. How do you get yourself in that headspace
of just that continual self doubting, kind of manic state.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Oh, I just picked up the newspaper, watch a little
news for a few minutes, and I read a lot
of political history, Like I'll just I like to read
a lot of times I breakfast, all these different politicals.
So I just tried to get myself in that headspace.
And it's not hard, especially at that particular time.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I imagine even today you could probably get in that
headspace pretty easily.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Now, I feel like right now and all the pressures
of you know, stuff is just easy to spin out.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It's a fun role to play. Actually, that's a fun,
fun character.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
What were some of your biggest challenges making this movie,
because I know making an independent film is not easy.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think they're raising the money was really hard because
when we moved to Austin, we didn't We just started
hanging out with all these really cool artists. They were
all waiting tables and just man, these are the coolest people.
We had come from Louisiana and they're really one as
many artists that we knew. So we're just hanging out
with those people. And then we was like, oh, we
need to raise some money. Oh, we don't really know
very many wealthy people, much less cool wealthy people.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So then we were like, oh, damn, we need to
learn how to raise some money.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
So that's been a long time of trying to build
networks and then finding the really cool people that have
some money that are into the arts.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
That was super hard.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
And then the editing was we didn't have much money
for posts, so we're just juggling so many different jobs,
editing trying to be patient because we were like I
feel like there's this film plays differently a different huh.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
We felt like right after the election, like all.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Last Spring went a really great time to put it out.
So just try to be patient and just trying to
really take our time. There's such a tendency to want
to rush to finish the film for a festival, and
my kind of mentors have said, don't ever do that.
Get the film right, and so there is that tendency
of oh, we should get it out as soon as
we can. Also, we need jobs, so the quicker we
get to film in the festival, maybe we could get
(15:25):
some other jobs.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So there is that teb is like just being patient.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Lear need to just stay real patient and get the
film right because it lives on forever.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I think that was the hardest part. Yeah, I think
fundraising is the hardest part.
Speaker 7 (15:36):
It's challenging in that we were raising money as we
were shooting, and as we're locking in cast, we didn't
have a solid crew or all over our locatients to
me and Jennifer and Morgan and Nick were in Jennifer's
kitchen trying to schedule all the actors traveling and the locations,
and we didn't even have the budget fully raised yet
(16:00):
couple days in shooting, so it was scary, but it
was also one of those things where it was like, man,
if we wouldn't have done that and we didn't just
put the pedal to the metal, it would have never
gotten made.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And it ended up working out.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Were you shooting this piece meal weekends, evenings, that kind
of stuff, where did you actually have a full block
of shooting time.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
We were doing a lot of piece mealing, and we
would shoot some days we just do two hours of shooting,
and it's just because sometimes it was just two people
crew or something, and then other days, once things started
to roll and once we raised more of the money
to shoot the film, then we started scheduling and did
certainly maybe I don't know how many days we did,
but then we scheduled some proper days shot along And did.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You guys edit this yourself or did you have somebody helping?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
We have an editor with us, Michael Green, and Michael
was there from the beginning. Nick and I created the
tone and the pacing, and then we divvied up scenes
with Michael and created an assembly together which was about
a three hour assembly. Yeah, and we said, no one
wants to watch to three hour comedy concluding me. So
we went through and then it took us maybe six
(17:05):
months or so to cut that down to two hours,
and then we brought on in front of ours Tony Costello,
and he helped us trim another ten minutes out, which
was really helpful because once you get onto that like
one forty five and we were trying to get to
ninety minutes, we're just so close to it was so hard.
And then we spent another couple of months just chipping
(17:26):
away at it, screening it, watching it with audiences and
seeing test screenings and seeing what's working and what's not.
And then it took us.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
A good probably two years to.
Speaker 7 (17:36):
Do because also because we were doing the music with
our friend Mario Mattioli, and we would do that at
my house here every like Wednesday night because he is
a job so I filled two hours every Wednesday night
we'd work on the music, and we were just had
to chip away as because we were also doing production
work and jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And stuff like that and have kids.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And so yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I was going to ask if you guys had seen
this with then audience, but it sounds like that was
a really valuable part to cut this down and really
hone that to what we end up seeing today.
Speaker 6 (18:07):
We did a couple of test screenings really helped because
there was a lot to whittle down.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
And I find too with test screenings it's so helpful
to watch with an audience because you just get your
blinders on after a while and you don't even need feedback.
You just watch it with them and you're like, Okay,
I can see where this is dragging, where that's not working.
Have you just feeling in the room with them. It
helps so much.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
When did you guys have your premiere or is that
yet to come?
Speaker 6 (18:32):
We had the premiere Thursday, October twenty third, terrific screening,
terrific audience. People really loved it, and then we'll have
a screening October thirtieth at the Galaxy seventh I think.
Then next we'll play Lone Star November fifth at six
pm in Fort Worth and then we'll play Lafay at
Louisiana November fifteenth at two thirty pm.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So those are the next two screens we have coming up.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Audience Austin definitely really seemed to love the film, so
it'll be nice to interesting to play in some other places.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Too. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'll be nice going back to the hometown.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
Yeah, I see what people think. They're all messaging, they're
all excited. And then we're gonna try to get a
New York screen. We're talking to some vessels in New
York and LA and talking to some sales agents and
hopefully distributed next spring.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Is there a good place for people to keep up
with you guys in the movie on Instagram?
Speaker 6 (19:20):
We're at Sellout movie and then also the brothers holding,
so brothers with an S and then holding that's a
pretty good place for us. We usually keeping at least
definitely someone's keeping the sellout page going, and then we'll
try to repost as much as we can.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Nick and Josh, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
This was great, Mike, thanks for doing that.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Thanks great.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well. Then a use be yours come from my own back.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Show me boy.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
We men around so many years. I'm good and give
them above.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Losch.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'm going this well, my wa John, something I can
big song. Look at my dollar ju I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
To say, look at.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
My shufing up?
Speaker 5 (20:44):
So why is so.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well given to my share?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Why is so well?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Mean?
Speaker 5 (21:26):
Simply what you like.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I don't know, man, I'm aware sin.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Now where it's not out of.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Your coffee door is open? Now, what will say somewhere
why it's so well well mean time you get to
myself like a so, why it's so Where we'll pay
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah,
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