October 28, 2025 • 44 mins
This is a conversation for every parent navigating change — because when you heal, your kids thrive.
I’m thrilled to welcome Dr. Karalynn Royster@learnwithlittlehouse back for her second conversation with me on the podcast
Dr. Royster is a Child Psychologist, Co-Parenting Expert, and Founder of the Kids First Co-Parenting System. A mom herself, she helps high-achieving, overwhelmed parents feel clear, confident, and empowered — all while putting their kids first.
Our first conversation about co-parenting and boundaries resonated so deeply with listeners. This time, we’re going even further — diving into what it really looks like to raise resilient kids and rediscover yourself as a parent after divorce.
In this episode, we explore:
Follow Dr. Royster:@learnwithlittlehouseKids First Co-Parenting System:Co-Parenting Blog:
I’m thrilled to welcome Dr. Karalynn Royster@learnwithlittlehouse back for her second conversation with me on the podcast
Dr. Royster is a Child Psychologist, Co-Parenting Expert, and Founder of the Kids First Co-Parenting System. A mom herself, she helps high-achieving, overwhelmed parents feel clear, confident, and empowered — all while putting their kids first.
Our first conversation about co-parenting and boundaries resonated so deeply with listeners. This time, we’re going even further — diving into what it really looks like to raise resilient kids and rediscover yourself as a parent after divorce.
In this episode, we explore:
- Supporting kids through divorce, blended families & big transitions
- Why your own healing, self-compassion, and triggers matter
- What to do when co-parenting isn’t collaborative
- Finding your identity outside of parenting & partnership
- Empowerment and confidence in rewriting life after divorce
Follow Dr. Royster:@learnwithlittlehouseKids First Co-Parenting System:Co-Parenting Blog:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to The Rewrite, a podcast about divorce, choice and
new beginnings. I'm your host, Wendy Sloan, former TV producer,
mom of two and one sweet golden retriever. This is
a space for real talk about the moments that break us,
the choices that define us, and the power we have
to begin again. You'll hear personal stories, heartfelt insights, and
(00:22):
honest conversations about healing relationships and reclaiming your life one
choice at a time. I'll be joined by experts in divorce, finance,
mental health, wellness, and more and everything you need to
support your next chapter. The most powerful chapters might be
the ones you write next. Let's begin your rewrite together.
This episode is brought to in part by the Needle
(00:44):
Kuda Law Firm guidance that moves lives forward. Welcome back
to the Rewrite. I'm your host, Wendy Sloan, and I'm
so happy to welcome my guests back. Today, our conversation
on co parenting was so powerful and resonated so deeply,
especially around boundaries, burnout and kids in keeping kids out
of the middle. Today, we're going to be diving much
(01:04):
deeper into that and so much more. Doctor Carolyn Royster
is a highly trained child psychologist, co parenting expert, and
an wavering advocate for families, especially moms and children. She
has also a mom who truly gets it. She's also
the founder of the Kid's First System. We're going to
talk about that too. She helps moms co parent with
confidence and protect their child's well being after separation and
(01:28):
or divorce and always always keeping the well being of
the children at the center, which I love so much
and I adore her. Welcome back to my show, doctor Royster.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thanks so much for having me back, Wendy. I'm excited
to be here again. We had such a good chat
last time. I feel like, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And to talk to those that didn't tune into part one,
please do, because we did talk a lot about, you know,
how you got here, which we're going to touch on
that a tiny bit right now, just to recap a
little bit, but there was a lot of amazing information
and we're going to get deeper today. So you your
(02:06):
parents were divorced when you were very young. You grew
up in two homes that were pretty high conflict. Do
you think that led you to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah? I think that for a long time, I wanted
to pretend as though it didn't that I just happened
to love working with kids, and that I just happened
to love working with kids at the age that I
had a major stressor. Right, But that's not really how
the brain works, and that's not really how life works.
(02:40):
And so it feels like a very full circle moment
when after years of practicing, I kindly kind of just
stepped into this is what I like doing, this is
what I feel called to do, and I'm uniquely positioned
to do it having been someone that experienced it on
(03:00):
so many levels.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I also think, and maybe you've found this to be
true too, I think it's really hard for people to
accept help sometimes if there's not some bit of shared
experience right here. And so as an adult, I'm partnered.
I've been with my husband for many years. I'm very fortunate.
(03:24):
He's like a really I always joke that he's like
a way better person than I am. So sometimes people
say like, well, how do you know what it's like
to go through this if if you're not you know,
you haven't been divorced, And I'm like, well, I actually
do know. From the kid's perspective, and that's my focus.
So you know, yeah, so both my parents, my parents
(03:47):
got divorced when I was young, and then they both
got remarried, and then they both got divorced again, So
lots of divorce.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, you know, I couldn't be hosting this podcast if
I wasn't divorced. Have no right I feel like to
do that, because what would I know?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, And I mean in psychology at least, it's a
little bit of a dangerous idea, right, because you get
a lot of folks in addictions work. We'll talk about
how you know, you have no business helping somebody with
an addiction if you haven't been through that. And I
think that that's a little bit of a different In truth,
(04:25):
that's a little bit of a tricky thing, right, I
don't need to have been addicted to meth to I
don't work with substance use. But to know some of
the things that are going to help people not be addicted,
does that make sense? So, and like there's a bunch
of child psychologists who don't have children who are incredible, right,
and yet people do really resonate with that lived experience
(04:51):
of understanding, especially something as complicated as divorce and remarriage
and children and divorce. Us think if it hasn't touched
your life, you don't really want to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Right, And you know, people, I'm sure people are that
aren't trained in it. That I mean, they are trained
in it, but haven't gone through it. It's fine. I
think personally I would connect with someone more that had
been through the journey.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I think we're trying to say, and the real ways
to help the kids is to help their parents. And
that's what you do. Amazing And I love that because
you're what you said that on the last podcast and
I'm sure you preach that and it's so true. So
let's start with how to raise resilient kids after divorce
(05:42):
and or separation. Support them whether you're alone, whether you're going,
whether it's a blended family, whether it's a big transition,
whether they're moving the school, whatever, whatever it may be.
Because there's so many things. You know, your ex might
not live down the street, your ex my new for
another town, The kids might have to you know, trap,
(06:03):
there's so many things. Yeah, so how do you you know,
where do you start?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah? I think where you start? And you talk a
lot about this on your show. But there's a lot
of power in the mindset, right, and having a mindset
that really focuses on what you can control and what
you can't control. Excuse me two one more. So you
(06:35):
know you can't control, you might think to yourself, oh
my gosh, if my ex moves out of state, that
is going to make my life horrible. That's going to
hurt my kids so much that I just like, that
can't happen. That can't That would be terrible, right, And
so moms come into it thinking about their kids. So
(06:56):
in their view, they're like, I don't care if you
move away. I care how that impacts my children, which
is why I'm having such a big issue with it. Right.
But the truth of the matter is that in your
head you have to recognize that you don't get to
say that, right, That, in an essence, is you trying
(07:17):
to control the other person, and that's not something you
can do. You're gonna drive yourself nuts if you do that.
And so the first step is that mindset work that
is so challenging around. I can't control where he goes,
I can't control if he moves. I can speak my
piece about it and share that I think this is
going to be hard for the kids and hard for me,
(07:39):
But at the end of the day, they're their own person.
They're gonna make whatever choices they're gonna make, and my
job is to show up for my kids and to
talk to them about it and to speak the truth
about it to them and help them be okay with
whatever is happening out there. Does that makes sense? Yeah,
So that's the first step. Then there's a lot of
(08:03):
power in providing a safe, secure base in your own
care and in your own home. So again, kind of
controlling what you can control. Control is such a tricky word,
but you know, I know that I can keep routines
consistent in my home. I know that I can decide
on these days what activities are too much and what
(08:24):
activities are not enough. I know that I when my
kids sad, I'm going to say, sucks that you're sad,
Like what's going on? Right? So doing all that you
can in your own place, And then with kids, there's
so much power in just simple validation, especially for these
(08:44):
situations that we can't control. Right, So they're saying, it
really sucks that Dad's moving away. I hate this. When
am I going to see him, and in your head
as a mom, you're like, oh my gosh, this is horrible,
like my heart is breaking them. But outwardly you're saying
things like this is really hard or this is really confusing,
(09:06):
it is hard to understand why this is happening. Right,
And that doesn't break the cardinal rule of divorce, which
is don't talk badly about your co parent, right, because
you're just validating what you're kiddo needs in the moment.
So that was a really long response.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, that was a really great response. M.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I mean that's why I adore you so much, and
that's why I said please please come back again, because
it's not easy. I mean, the kids didn't choose the divorce,
and especially when you're co parenting with someone who's not
cooperative and who's not nice, it's very difficult, right and
right do you not want to put kids in the middle.
(09:56):
That's the last thing we want to do. Yeah, And
it's hard and we have to think about that and
it's hard for them. Like who wants two houses?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Who wants you know?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Who wants that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah? Yeah, it was funny. I was talking with a
therapy patient this week and we were talking about divorce
and how other kids and other adults in your life
always kind of tell you things like, oh, it'll be
so great you get two Christmases, and as a kid,
You're like, I don't care about two Christmas. I want
(10:27):
one Christmas. Like it's cool to get more present, sure,
but I like that's not worth all of this.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You know, everybody else, everybody else we have two Christmases?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yes, yes, yeah, I mean so I have a this
is very personal, but I have a very strict rule
with my own family. We do not travel on Christmas.
We are always home where we celebrate Christmas. And that
came from being raised in a two parent household. Who also,
(11:01):
you know, my parents' parents were divorced, and so we'd
go have Christmas with you know, my dad, and then
my stepmom, and then my stepmom's parents, and then my
dad's parents both of their houses, and so across both Christmases, Christmas,
even Christmas Day, I would have like six or seven
family Christmases to go to time. And that's not joyous.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I mean that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's exhausting, and so to me as an adult, I mean,
you and I will get into this a little bit
about healing parts of ourselves, and for me as an adult,
it's incredibly healing to just have one right, we're just here.
We don't have to go anywhere, we don't have to
see anybody. We're not racing around, you know, just enjoying
(11:46):
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Right, That's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So, and you don't have to go to your partners.
You don't have to go to this one, you don't
have to go to that one. You're just home. Isn't
that anything?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah? Yeah, and say whoever wants to come can come.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It just.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, we're staying home. That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You can't wait for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's the best, it's the best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, So a parent's inner world, yea, How our healing,
our triggers our self compassion for ourselves impact our kids.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah. So this is I think even for parents, or
for moms in particular who haven't gone through a separation
or divorce, women just tend to be really hard on
themselves and really struggle. And I don't want to make
sweeping generalizations, but I think women are raised to be
(12:43):
very self critical in our society and in our culture
and take a lot of things on that that really
aren't for us to hold, right, And so I think
work by work around self compassion is a life's journey.
I think it starts when our girls are very young,
(13:05):
teaching them to love themselves and love their bodies and
how they show up in the world, and it just continues,
you know. And I definitely don't think I have it
all figured out, and I do have an awareness that
that's something that we all need, right, And so I
think of self compassion and self love and self esteem
(13:30):
building as an ongoing practice that you just have to
continue to do. And I think it takes time, right,
Like compassion work is hard and takes a long time.
So there's that piece, and I think the importance of
that work is that kids feel all of that and
(13:52):
they observe all of that, right, and they are noticing
how regulated you are as a parent, how you speak
about yourself, how you speak to yourself, and does that
match what they see you doing?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So, you know, body issues are kind of the classic thing.
If you're saying out loud, like I love my body,
I'm proud of how strong my legs are, or whatever
you're like, red somewhere to speak positively about your body,
which we all should do. But then you're spending all
your time in front of your kid pulling at your
shirt and pulling at your pants because or putting them
(14:29):
on and being like right, your kid notices that they
notice it, right, And so I think this ongoing process
of reflecting on what is still a hurt for you,
reflecting on what your kid is observing, hearing, seeing, picking
(14:52):
up on, and thinking about how we can always be
improving that. Right. Ways to improve that are, I know, right,
Like everybody's like, that's a great idea, Carolyn, But how
do I do that?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The classic meditative practices, meditations, affirmations. I've been really interested
in like manifestation work lately, and so I've oh, yeah,
I just recently have been getting into like Mimie Bouchard's
work and reading her book and it's just really interesting.
(15:26):
She has a great app and so that kind of
stuff yoga got me, prayer, journaling, therapy. I'm a big
fan of therapy, and even just like deep relationships. You know,
the things that my best friend can say to me
are much deeper and more based in reality than like
(15:51):
a coworker. Right, So I like Why do you think
this keeps coming up? Why am I getting so salty
with one of the kids about this?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Oh, I kind of think it might have to do
with this, right, those safe, secure relationships. You know, we're
in Colorado here, we're like outdoor people, so getting outside,
touching grass, as the teenagers say, getting into the mountains,
getting on a ski hill like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah. And also for moms, especially single moms, right, moments
for yourself too, because you're a better parent that way, right.
You know, you're you're constantly running doing going kids, kids on, Like,
take a moment for yourself, like you, you'll be a
(16:38):
better parent too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. And I think even like a micro moment, right.
I was recently talking to somebody about moms are so
quick to guilt ourselves. Right, I shouldn't be at this
coffee shop just sitting here. I have a million things
to do. Right, that's actually shame, because shame is like
I am I am doing I am wrong, not I
(17:03):
am doing something wrong. So mom guilt is a little
bit misplaced because the truth is you're not doing anything wrong.
You're taking time for yourself makes you a better, more
present mom, It helps you here yeah, you're recharging. And
so a microway of giving yourself compassion, right is to say, like, actually,
(17:26):
I'm not doing anything wrong here. I deserve time and
attention and I'm going to enjoy my cup of coffee.
So it's like a small way of flipping the script. Yeah,
another thing or another resource, and I can send this
to you so we can put it in notes for folks.
But a lot of people have been talking lately about
(17:46):
internal family systems work or IFS, which is a lot
about But there's these I'll give you, like a very
short thing. There's a book called No Bad Parts by
Richard Schwartz. He's kind of the fun of IFS, and
that's the book I was mentioning. So it just talks
about how there's different parts of all of us and
(18:07):
these parts get sort of triggered or pulled out, and
a very common part that people talk about as their
inner child, right, and so paying attention to what your
inner child is saying and thinking about the parts of
you that are more protective or the parts that are
more quick to give in whatever kind of They have
(18:30):
all these names and labels for them, but the point
is we're varied people with varied parts of ourselves that
need different attention at different times, right, and so an
inner child part may need a little more attention as
part of your healing journey. And this is therapeutic work
that you do with a change, but even just some
(18:51):
reading about it might be interesting for folks.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think, so yes, please send that. We'll put in
the notes. We're going to take a very quick break.
We'll be back with doctor Royster. We're going to talk
about moving beyond conflict and finding our identity outside of
parenting and partnership, which we can kind of like touched
a little bit on just before. We'll be right back.
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We're back with doctor Royster, her co parenting business Learn
with Little House, co parenting coach, child psychologists and founder
of the kid's first co parenting system. Okay, so moving
(20:41):
beyond conflict, finding our identity outside of parenting and partnership. Yeah,
I mean, I Wendy, I'm sure you know some people
as do I, where it kind of feels all consuming, right, Yeah,
it's the only thing they.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Want to talk about is how crappy their X was
and what they did. And then I said this, and
then we did that, and then I sent this text
and do you believe she's doing this online? And like
you know, it can take on such an identity for
people before you know it. Right. So I think again
(21:20):
it's a little bit about mindset, that it's it's an
ending and a beginning, right, there's divorce as an ending.
In a beginning, you get to close the chapter on something,
or you have to. Maybe it's not get to but
that also, you know, opens a window, right yeah, and
the page turns and now you're in a new, fresh start.
(21:43):
And I think that in itself is a really you know,
sometimes that's just a gift. Sometimes that's a gift in
bad paper. Sometimes that's the gift you never asked for, right.
But either way, you're at a new chapter and you
get to make some decisions about how you want to
(22:04):
write that. Right, even amidst you know, very stressful situations,
people that are like really struggling financially or have to
move or you know, now I'm used to seeing my
kids every day and I don't see them every day,
and you know, to try really hard to think about
those things as how do I make this what I want?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You know, how do I hard to do that in
the moment? Right?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah? Yeah, what I mean, I'm curious with all of
your experiences talking to all these people, like, how how
do you find folks do that successfully?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh? I think it's hard to find to do that
because you it's this podcast I'm hoping helps people like
there's like your mission, That's what I'm saying. There is
life after this, there is happy ever after. It's going
to be not easy, but we're going to get to
the other side. And so many people have found their
(23:04):
mission pretty much in making a difference in this divorce world.
You know, it turned out to be healers or coaches
or mindful or manifesting or they you know, therapy, psychologists,
they coaches. They started doing stuff to make a difference.
It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I mean, yeah, back.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Then when I got divorced, there and I don't remember
if I told you this or not. There weren't podcasts,
There weren't really books out there, there weren't people. We
didn't talk about breathing and mindful and manifesting and all
that stuff. I knew one person in my town who
was getting divorced. I didn't even know her, and I
sent her a message. You don't know me, but I
(23:47):
think we have something in common. And that was my
first connection. Because I didn't tell anyone for over a
year that I was seeing. My kids were so little,
so I didn't It was very you know, hush hush,
and town nobody was Now a lot of people. You know,
now it's a big difference, and now it's not like
a stigma or talked about. And yeah, it was hard
(24:09):
because my kids were little. Yeah, and you know, I
was really involved in the school, in the in the town,
so it was difficult. But so I I you know,
I can't speak from then, but I can speak from
now that most people that come on here are doing
something to help other people.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, which is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. I think when I was in the moment, like,
I didn't think about the next in the next chapter.
I just thought of I just lived in the moment,
you know, and it was so busy raising two kids
that I wasn't thinking about like later I was working
about you know that I was just there and that's.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I suppose to. I think there is a difference
in the grief process. And I honestly don't have the
research on this off the top of my head, but
just from my experiences, I think there's a difference to
when how you come about the divorce. Right, if you're
someone that really discerned and thought and thought about this
(25:17):
for months, right, and then you decide together we need
to seprate, or you are the person that initiates, right,
I think that's a different experience than if you're blindsided
and you didn't know right or some you know, you
find out about an affair and you're like I can't
do this and then it's done right, different grief.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
One of my guests, one of my guests that was
just on recently, she talked about how and this is
really fitting for this, like she was she was in it.
Then she stopped working and she was stay at home mom,
and she was like, there was no way I could
be a stay at home mom. Nothing against my kids,
I just didn't want to just be a stay at
home mom. I wanted to be a stay at home
I wanted to be a mom, and I wanted to
(26:00):
have a career. And then she's started doing stuff on
the weekends, and then she realized she was building a
career so she could eventually leave her husband and she
would have this career. And so she was like she
was like wow. I was like blown away, And I
was like wow, because most people are not like that.
They're just they try to they figure it out after
(26:21):
all of this and after all the turmoil, and then
they're like, now what.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And a lot of you know, a lot of the
women that I work with are also coming out of
very toxic relationships, narcissistic abuse and sometimes physical abuse, sexual abuse.
Like there's a lot of And the reason I bring
up emotional abuse and narcissistic abuse is that a lot
(26:48):
of people have the experience of not wanting to leave
those relationships, even though it's very clear it's unhealthy to
everybody on the outside.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Do you think people women especially don't leave these toxic
relations they know they need to break the cycle for
their kids, for themselves, Why don't they leave.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well, it's a it's a very complex and unfortunately pretty
well studied phenomenon, the like cycle of power and control.
And so I think people that I think the simplest
answer is fear. Right, the person there with has done
such a good job, which is a really weird way
(27:32):
to put it, or a screwed up way to put it.
They've done such a good job of putting fear in
that person and debilitating their self esteem to the point
where people really believe, like, no one will love me,
I won't be able to make it on my own,
I'm stupid. I would hurt my kids if we let.
I mean, they like to be.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Scared to be alone too, right, they're scared to be alone.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
They've also usually done in those sorts of dynamics, there's
often a well based fear of I will ruin you,
like I will hurt you, So sometimes people are afraid
of actually being hurt, which does happen. We know that
it's the most dangerous time to leave a domestic violent
(28:16):
situation is when you leave, right, That's the most when
the most crime and most violence happens when you're threatening
to leave. And so you know there but more subtle,
not less toxic, though, are things like I'll tell all
of your friends and family. What you know, you're such
(28:37):
a slut or whatever it is. I control all the money,
You're not going to have anything like. There's these really
narcissistic abuse you sometimes doesn't involve physical abuse, but the
psychological manipulation is so much more potent and toxic that
(28:58):
they're just really afraid. Right, And then there's the kind
of classic cycle of something happens, it's really bad. You're like,
I'm going to get out of here. This is terrible,
and then they go into the apologetic I'll change, I'll
do anything, I'll go to therapy. Here's a diamond necklace,
and then we're kind of right back where we started, right.
(29:21):
I read a stat years and years ago. It's probably
outdated now, but it was something like the average woman
tries to leave a domestic violence relationship seven times before
she successfully does, and that has all to do with
the power and control, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So we can't change somebody. So yeah, if you're fix
trying to fix somebody, it's you're not going to fix
somebody because they can fix themselves that they want to.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And often they often these patterns of relationships come with
a period of really good, like really we call it
love bombing, but like it was so wonderful, this was
the man in my dreams, right, and then they get
married or they have a kid, and like a switch flips,
(30:12):
and then you're in this terrible environment and there's you know,
there's a lot of markers for that, there's a lot
of people that talk about that. But it's so complicated,
you know, and it's so hard. And so the point
that I'm bringing up with that is, depending where you
are on your healing journey, you have to do all
(30:33):
that work first of starting to acknowledge like this was
really wrong this and that takes a long time right
before you can start to grieve and then start that
next chapter of like my post learn how to use yourself? Yes, yes,
(30:53):
so practical strategies when parenting isn't collaborative or is and
for the kids when when the school, when you change schools,
when you haven't when you move, when you're in a
new relationship with someone, like how do you help the
kids with all that?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And I think this segue is really perfectly because you know,
if to those types of relationships we were just talking about,
if you left someone like that and you've you've gone
on the journey of awakening to what that experience actually was.
That that wasn't love that you needed to get out.
Something happened and you and you did it, and we're
(31:31):
so proud of you. Right, you know that's not really
somebody that it's a good idea for you to be
collaboratively co parenting with. Right, I'm not going to tell
you to like go have a picnic lunch on the
side of your kid's soccer field with this guy that
abused you, Right, Like, that's not okay. And so in
(31:53):
those dynamics, like I guess this is a person you
wouldn't normally have a relationship with, but because there are
kids involved, you have to. And so what do we
recommend in those situations. We recommend something called parallel parenting.
This is not my term parallel parenting. You can think
(32:13):
of it like you're on two train tracks or two
sides of the interstate and you don't cross. Right, you
have your time, I have my time. Our rules don't overlap,
Our punishments don't overlap. If we're grounded at one house,
doesn't mean you're grounded there. Our screening rule like nothing overlaps,
and a lot of these families do not communicate aside
(32:36):
from through formal channels, So they communicate on an app
or through their attorneys, and that's it. There is no
phone call, there is no we're not texting, if we're emailing,
there's like very specific structure around it. And that can
you kind of bring it full circle. That can help
with the healing, That can help with your mindset, and
(32:59):
that can help you protect your kids because you're just
controlling what happens in your lane as best as you can.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So what if it isn't what if it isn't mental
or physical abuse or anything like that, you're just you're
getting divorced, and you know obviously there's going to be
hurt on both sides no matter what. Probably, would you recommend,
like having dinner with your ex and the kids? Would
you recommend doing things together? Would How do you feel
about that?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, actually that's a great point, Wendy, because there's.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
A kid, the kids false hope also like when you
do that, kids do better.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
The less conflict there is, full stop, Like that's it.
That's what the research shows. And so presuming that you
can have time together and be friendly and it not
end in conflict and I'm including conflict that's sort of
felt maybe not said, or if behind the scene, like
(33:58):
you get back in the car and you're like, oh
like that like that a lot, right, then I think
that's what that is. What's best for kids to have
a united front, to have that sort of uh we're
going for business like or friendly, right, That is hands
(34:19):
down what's best for kids. What's important to know about that, though,
is that anybody who has achieved that in their co
parenting dynamic will tell you this took time and a
lot of work, because it does. And what we know
from the literature is that it takes about two years
for kids and everybody to sort of level out post divorce.
(34:42):
And during those initial year to two years, it's pretty
common to move to start in parallel parenting as you heal,
and then over time get more friendly and collegial. Right.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And what about if there's a move or there's a
new relationship, you're bringing a new relationship in and all
that stuff, do you how do you?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, relationships? I mean that's like a whole nother episode.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
That's a whole other episode. Okay, let's table that is.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
What I will say is that you can expect a
whole other layer of grief to be opened up for
everyone when a partner is introduced. It is helpful if
both people have an agreement about how long we're going
to date somebody and what the protocol is for introducing
them to each other and the kids. Right, my kids
(35:41):
spending the night somewhere, I'm going to want to know
who the adults are in the house and you here
right right, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
If it's my it's a babysitter or a partner.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So for me, it would be really important to meet
that person, and I would articulate that right. A lot
of families put that into their parenting plan around, like
they date for at least a certain period of time,
usually six months, then they meet the co parent, then
they introduce to the kids that like, there's steps that
(36:14):
you can do to help kids. You could do those
steps perfectly, and the kids and you as adults are
going to find new pockets of grief when that happens.
Even if you don't want to get back together with
that person, it just means it's really done right. It's
usually the.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Last that's a whole other episode we're going to dive
into next time with Yeah, what is it truly this
I want to talk about briefly. Your kids first system
is six months, talk about that and also your co
parenting businesses learn with Little House. But I want to
ask you what does it truly mean to rewrite life
(36:51):
as a parent after divorce? Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I love that me too. I think that what I
would say to that, Wendy is that parents and children
and their kids are not defined by this one event, right,
It's not. It doesn't have to be your whole personality.
It doesn't have to be their whole personality, right, And
(37:19):
kids do do okay right, Like look at me, I
have a doctorate, I'm doing okay right, not just but
like you know, have a really happy family, and you know,
like all the other measures as well. I would say,
maybe I don't know that feels brady, But the point
is you're not defined by it. Like kids can and
(37:42):
do do okay and come out to be happy, well
adjusted adults.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
They do.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
You haven't ruined them, okay, And you also can as
a mom. You're not defined by it, you know. That's
what I would.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Say that because I was so well said, and that
will be a sound bite because I want mom's dads
is you know, young adults. I want them all to
hear that.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, I want to like shake moms sometimes and be like,
oh my gosh, you didn't ruin your kid. You didn't, right,
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So yeah, we have choices in this life and we
get to choose, and.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Just being worried about some of those things means that
you're being intentional. Right, If you're worried that your kid
is really affected by it, then you're the type of
mom that's being really active in supporting them and finding
them resources and connecting with people and working on it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I worry about the parents that aren't asking me that question, yeah,
more than the ones that do. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
What you do is so amazing. Kids must be so
rewarding for you too.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Well, sorry, there's a siren hopefully.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Oh god, so I don't even hear it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
It's okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Well, you know this is just like the podcast world, right,
what happens happened? Sometimes there's a dog barking, sometimes there's
someone at the door.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It is really what.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
An amazing episode. This was just like a lot of fun.
So your kids first system, Yeah, yeah, that briefly and
then gosh, please come back again and again and again.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I just love it. I love talking to you, Wendy.
You have a real gift of getting people to open up.
So the Kids First System is the way that I
have developed to help moms as they move their kids
through these stages.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
A lot of the program talks about the difference between
collaborative co parenting versus parallel parenting. A lot of women
in it are dealing with really high conflict co parents.
I wouldn't say they are high conflict. I would say
that most of them are like, please stop, Like I
would love for this to stop. They're having to respond
(40:10):
to a lot of litigation and toxicity towards the kids, etc.
So what it is is there's a whole bunch of
learning curriculum things that you can work through. Lessons on
various topics like transitions and how to talk to kids
about divorce and what to do when your kids in
(40:31):
the middle, and how to manage all of these things.
The BIFF response which isn't mine, but like, we teach
these strategies and other strategies as well. And then the
most powerful part of it is every week moms hop
on a call, they have the option to hop on
a call with me as a group, and we talk
(40:51):
through whatever they need in that moment, and sometimes there's
really specific things. This week, we just had a mom
come on and she's like, I just need moral support, right,
I just need a little encouragement. I just need you
to tell me it's going to be okay and that
I'm not alone with saying kind of what you were
talking about, being able to have somebody to bounce ideas
(41:12):
off of, to talk through and be in the hard
parts with you. And then a lot of support for kids.
So we troubleshoot a lot of things, like we had
a lovey issue this week of the love is not
coming home from preschool because of the way the schedule is,
and how do we troubleshoot that logistically? But more importantly
(41:36):
talk to the kiddo about where their beloved stuff. He
is like, what's the words we use?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, so stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Really, I would like to listen in on that call,
just to listen in because wow, what amazed. That's an
amazing support system.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
It's incredible. I mean the women, I feel like I
know the women and their kids going to say you
must so well, yeah, it's a real gift to me
as well as to them. So that's that's our kind
of big program. We have some we offer free master
classes every month. We have one that runs all the time.
I have my own podcast, the Kids fir To Congratulations,
(42:18):
Thank You, Thank You, Kids First, co Parenting, and that's
on you know all Apple, Spotify everywhere, And that's a
way for me to get information to people to just
start to get to know me and learn some some
starting steps right and get invited into this world because
(42:38):
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
There's a lot to learn. There's learn I mean I learned.
I learned just from some of my guests. Come on,
and you know so much from you, and God, there
needs to be like a hundred more of you.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I mean, Wendy, the world is not ready for even
one more Carolyn.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Trust but you know, listen, learn with Little House, your
co parenting business and your Kids First system. That's like
amazing that you built that. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I'm really proud of it. I am, and I
think it's really helpful. I think it helps moms and
that's really my mission. It is your mission to help
kids through their moms.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You know, yep, that's right. The real way to help
kids is to help their parents.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It is. Yeah, yeah, So that's that's it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
That's where we are, all right, doctor, So you will
be back again. Thank you so much for this, for everything,
and I appreciate you, Wendy, thanks so much. Nito Kuda
Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut and New
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(43:52):
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(44:13):
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five seven nine five zero zero
Welcome to The Rewrite, a podcast about divorce, choice and
new beginnings. I'm your host, Wendy Sloan, former TV producer,
mom of two and one sweet golden retriever. This is
a space for real talk about the moments that break us,
the choices that define us, and the power we have
to begin again. You'll hear personal stories, heartfelt insights, and
(00:22):
honest conversations about healing relationships and reclaiming your life one
choice at a time. I'll be joined by experts in divorce, finance,
mental health, wellness, and more and everything you need to
support your next chapter. The most powerful chapters might be
the ones you write next. Let's begin your rewrite together.
This episode is brought to in part by the Needle
(00:44):
Kuda Law Firm guidance that moves lives forward. Welcome back
to the Rewrite. I'm your host, Wendy Sloan, and I'm
so happy to welcome my guests back. Today, our conversation
on co parenting was so powerful and resonated so deeply,
especially around boundaries, burnout and kids in keeping kids out
of the middle. Today, we're going to be diving much
(01:04):
deeper into that and so much more. Doctor Carolyn Royster
is a highly trained child psychologist, co parenting expert, and
an wavering advocate for families, especially moms and children. She
has also a mom who truly gets it. She's also
the founder of the Kid's First System. We're going to
talk about that too. She helps moms co parent with
confidence and protect their child's well being after separation and
(01:28):
or divorce and always always keeping the well being of
the children at the center, which I love so much
and I adore her. Welcome back to my show, doctor Royster.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thanks so much for having me back, Wendy. I'm excited
to be here again. We had such a good chat
last time. I feel like, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And to talk to those that didn't tune into part one,
please do, because we did talk a lot about, you know,
how you got here, which we're going to touch on
that a tiny bit right now, just to recap a
little bit, but there was a lot of amazing information
and we're going to get deeper today. So you your
(02:06):
parents were divorced when you were very young. You grew
up in two homes that were pretty high conflict. Do
you think that led you to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah? I think that for a long time, I wanted
to pretend as though it didn't that I just happened
to love working with kids, and that I just happened
to love working with kids at the age that I
had a major stressor. Right, But that's not really how
the brain works, and that's not really how life works.
(02:40):
And so it feels like a very full circle moment
when after years of practicing, I kindly kind of just
stepped into this is what I like doing, this is
what I feel called to do, and I'm uniquely positioned
to do it having been someone that experienced it on
(03:00):
so many levels.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I also think, and maybe you've found this to be
true too, I think it's really hard for people to
accept help sometimes if there's not some bit of shared
experience right here. And so as an adult, I'm partnered.
I've been with my husband for many years. I'm very fortunate.
(03:24):
He's like a really I always joke that he's like
a way better person than I am. So sometimes people
say like, well, how do you know what it's like
to go through this if if you're not you know,
you haven't been divorced, And I'm like, well, I actually
do know. From the kid's perspective, and that's my focus.
So you know, yeah, so both my parents, my parents
(03:47):
got divorced when I was young, and then they both
got remarried, and then they both got divorced again, So
lots of divorce.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, you know, I couldn't be hosting this podcast if
I wasn't divorced. Have no right I feel like to
do that, because what would I know?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, And I mean in psychology at least, it's a
little bit of a dangerous idea, right, because you get
a lot of folks in addictions work. We'll talk about
how you know, you have no business helping somebody with
an addiction if you haven't been through that. And I
think that that's a little bit of a different In truth,
(04:25):
that's a little bit of a tricky thing, right, I
don't need to have been addicted to meth to I
don't work with substance use. But to know some of
the things that are going to help people not be addicted,
does that make sense? So, and like there's a bunch
of child psychologists who don't have children who are incredible, right,
and yet people do really resonate with that lived experience
(04:51):
of understanding, especially something as complicated as divorce and remarriage
and children and divorce. Us think if it hasn't touched
your life, you don't really want to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Right, And you know, people, I'm sure people are that
aren't trained in it. That I mean, they are trained
in it, but haven't gone through it. It's fine. I
think personally I would connect with someone more that had
been through the journey.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I think we're trying to say, and the real ways
to help the kids is to help their parents. And
that's what you do. Amazing And I love that because
you're what you said that on the last podcast and
I'm sure you preach that and it's so true. So
let's start with how to raise resilient kids after divorce
(05:42):
and or separation. Support them whether you're alone, whether you're going,
whether it's a blended family, whether it's a big transition,
whether they're moving the school, whatever, whatever it may be.
Because there's so many things. You know, your ex might
not live down the street, your ex my new for
another town, The kids might have to you know, trap,
(06:03):
there's so many things. Yeah, so how do you you know,
where do you start?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah? I think where you start? And you talk a
lot about this on your show. But there's a lot
of power in the mindset, right, and having a mindset
that really focuses on what you can control and what
you can't control. Excuse me two one more. So you
(06:35):
know you can't control, you might think to yourself, oh
my gosh, if my ex moves out of state, that
is going to make my life horrible. That's going to
hurt my kids so much that I just like, that
can't happen. That can't That would be terrible, right, And
so moms come into it thinking about their kids. So
(06:56):
in their view, they're like, I don't care if you
move away. I care how that impacts my children, which
is why I'm having such a big issue with it. Right.
But the truth of the matter is that in your
head you have to recognize that you don't get to
say that, right, That, in an essence, is you trying
(07:17):
to control the other person, and that's not something you
can do. You're gonna drive yourself nuts if you do that.
And so the first step is that mindset work that
is so challenging around. I can't control where he goes,
I can't control if he moves. I can speak my
piece about it and share that I think this is
going to be hard for the kids and hard for me,
(07:39):
But at the end of the day, they're their own person.
They're gonna make whatever choices they're gonna make, and my
job is to show up for my kids and to
talk to them about it and to speak the truth
about it to them and help them be okay with
whatever is happening out there. Does that makes sense? Yeah,
So that's the first step. Then there's a lot of
(08:03):
power in providing a safe, secure base in your own
care and in your own home. So again, kind of
controlling what you can control. Control is such a tricky word,
but you know, I know that I can keep routines
consistent in my home. I know that I can decide
on these days what activities are too much and what
(08:24):
activities are not enough. I know that I when my
kids sad, I'm going to say, sucks that you're sad,
Like what's going on? Right? So doing all that you
can in your own place, And then with kids, there's
so much power in just simple validation, especially for these
(08:44):
situations that we can't control. Right, So they're saying, it
really sucks that Dad's moving away. I hate this. When
am I going to see him, and in your head
as a mom, you're like, oh my gosh, this is horrible,
like my heart is breaking them. But outwardly you're saying
things like this is really hard or this is really confusing,
(09:06):
it is hard to understand why this is happening. Right,
And that doesn't break the cardinal rule of divorce, which
is don't talk badly about your co parent, right, because
you're just validating what you're kiddo needs in the moment.
So that was a really long response.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, that was a really great response. M.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I mean that's why I adore you so much, and
that's why I said please please come back again, because
it's not easy. I mean, the kids didn't choose the divorce,
and especially when you're co parenting with someone who's not
cooperative and who's not nice, it's very difficult, right and
right do you not want to put kids in the middle.
(09:56):
That's the last thing we want to do. Yeah, And
it's hard and we have to think about that and
it's hard for them. Like who wants two houses?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Who wants you know?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Who wants that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah? Yeah, it was funny. I was talking with a
therapy patient this week and we were talking about divorce
and how other kids and other adults in your life
always kind of tell you things like, oh, it'll be
so great you get two Christmases, and as a kid,
You're like, I don't care about two Christmas. I want
(10:27):
one Christmas. Like it's cool to get more present, sure,
but I like that's not worth all of this.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You know, everybody else, everybody else we have two Christmases?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yes, yes, yeah, I mean so I have a this
is very personal, but I have a very strict rule
with my own family. We do not travel on Christmas.
We are always home where we celebrate Christmas. And that
came from being raised in a two parent household. Who also,
(11:01):
you know, my parents' parents were divorced, and so we'd
go have Christmas with you know, my dad, and then
my stepmom, and then my stepmom's parents, and then my
dad's parents both of their houses, and so across both Christmases, Christmas,
even Christmas Day, I would have like six or seven
family Christmases to go to time. And that's not joyous.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I mean that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's exhausting, and so to me as an adult, I mean,
you and I will get into this a little bit
about healing parts of ourselves, and for me as an adult,
it's incredibly healing to just have one right, we're just here.
We don't have to go anywhere, we don't have to
see anybody. We're not racing around, you know, just enjoying
(11:46):
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Right, That's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So, and you don't have to go to your partners.
You don't have to go to this one, you don't
have to go to that one. You're just home. Isn't
that anything?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah? Yeah, and say whoever wants to come can come.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It just.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, we're staying home. That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You can't wait for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's the best, it's the best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, So a parent's inner world, yea, How our healing,
our triggers our self compassion for ourselves impact our kids.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah. So this is I think even for parents, or
for moms in particular who haven't gone through a separation
or divorce, women just tend to be really hard on
themselves and really struggle. And I don't want to make
sweeping generalizations, but I think women are raised to be
(12:43):
very self critical in our society and in our culture
and take a lot of things on that that really
aren't for us to hold, right, And so I think
work by work around self compassion is a life's journey.
I think it starts when our girls are very young,
(13:05):
teaching them to love themselves and love their bodies and
how they show up in the world, and it just continues,
you know. And I definitely don't think I have it
all figured out, and I do have an awareness that
that's something that we all need, right, And so I
think of self compassion and self love and self esteem
(13:30):
building as an ongoing practice that you just have to
continue to do. And I think it takes time, right,
Like compassion work is hard and takes a long time.
So there's that piece, and I think the importance of
that work is that kids feel all of that and
(13:52):
they observe all of that, right, and they are noticing
how regulated you are as a parent, how you speak
about yourself, how you speak to yourself, and does that
match what they see you doing?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So, you know, body issues are kind of the classic thing.
If you're saying out loud, like I love my body,
I'm proud of how strong my legs are, or whatever
you're like, red somewhere to speak positively about your body,
which we all should do. But then you're spending all
your time in front of your kid pulling at your
shirt and pulling at your pants because or putting them
(14:29):
on and being like right, your kid notices that they
notice it, right, And so I think this ongoing process
of reflecting on what is still a hurt for you,
reflecting on what your kid is observing, hearing, seeing, picking
(14:52):
up on, and thinking about how we can always be
improving that. Right. Ways to improve that are, I know, right,
Like everybody's like, that's a great idea, Carolyn, But how
do I do that?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The classic meditative practices, meditations, affirmations. I've been really interested
in like manifestation work lately, and so I've oh, yeah,
I just recently have been getting into like Mimie Bouchard's
work and reading her book and it's just really interesting.
(15:26):
She has a great app and so that kind of
stuff yoga got me, prayer, journaling, therapy. I'm a big
fan of therapy, and even just like deep relationships. You know,
the things that my best friend can say to me
are much deeper and more based in reality than like
(15:51):
a coworker. Right, So I like Why do you think
this keeps coming up? Why am I getting so salty
with one of the kids about this?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Oh, I kind of think it might have to do
with this, right, those safe, secure relationships. You know, we're
in Colorado here, we're like outdoor people, so getting outside,
touching grass, as the teenagers say, getting into the mountains,
getting on a ski hill like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah. And also for moms, especially single moms, right, moments
for yourself too, because you're a better parent that way, right.
You know, you're you're constantly running doing going kids, kids on, Like,
take a moment for yourself, like you, you'll be a
(16:38):
better parent too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. And I think even like a micro moment, right.
I was recently talking to somebody about moms are so
quick to guilt ourselves. Right, I shouldn't be at this
coffee shop just sitting here. I have a million things
to do. Right, that's actually shame, because shame is like
I am I am doing I am wrong, not I
(17:03):
am doing something wrong. So mom guilt is a little
bit misplaced because the truth is you're not doing anything wrong.
You're taking time for yourself makes you a better, more
present mom, It helps you here yeah, you're recharging. And
so a microway of giving yourself compassion, right is to say, like, actually,
(17:26):
I'm not doing anything wrong here. I deserve time and
attention and I'm going to enjoy my cup of coffee.
So it's like a small way of flipping the script. Yeah,
another thing or another resource, and I can send this
to you so we can put it in notes for folks.
But a lot of people have been talking lately about
(17:46):
internal family systems work or IFS, which is a lot
about But there's these I'll give you, like a very
short thing. There's a book called No Bad Parts by
Richard Schwartz. He's kind of the fun of IFS, and
that's the book I was mentioning. So it just talks
about how there's different parts of all of us and
(18:07):
these parts get sort of triggered or pulled out, and
a very common part that people talk about as their
inner child, right, and so paying attention to what your
inner child is saying and thinking about the parts of
you that are more protective or the parts that are
more quick to give in whatever kind of They have
(18:30):
all these names and labels for them, but the point
is we're varied people with varied parts of ourselves that
need different attention at different times, right, and so an
inner child part may need a little more attention as
part of your healing journey. And this is therapeutic work
that you do with a change, but even just some
(18:51):
reading about it might be interesting for folks.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think, so yes, please send that. We'll put in
the notes. We're going to take a very quick break.
We'll be back with doctor Royster. We're going to talk
about moving beyond conflict and finding our identity outside of
parenting and partnership, which we can kind of like touched
a little bit on just before. We'll be right back.
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We're back with doctor Royster, her co parenting business Learn
with Little House, co parenting coach, child psychologists and founder
of the kid's first co parenting system. Okay, so moving
(20:41):
beyond conflict, finding our identity outside of parenting and partnership. Yeah,
I mean, I Wendy, I'm sure you know some people
as do I, where it kind of feels all consuming, right, Yeah,
it's the only thing they.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Want to talk about is how crappy their X was
and what they did. And then I said this, and
then we did that, and then I sent this text
and do you believe she's doing this online? And like
you know, it can take on such an identity for
people before you know it. Right. So I think again
(21:20):
it's a little bit about mindset, that it's it's an
ending and a beginning, right, there's divorce as an ending.
In a beginning, you get to close the chapter on something,
or you have to. Maybe it's not get to but
that also, you know, opens a window, right yeah, and
the page turns and now you're in a new, fresh start.
(21:43):
And I think that in itself is a really you know,
sometimes that's just a gift. Sometimes that's a gift in
bad paper. Sometimes that's the gift you never asked for, right.
But either way, you're at a new chapter and you
get to make some decisions about how you want to
(22:04):
write that. Right, even amidst you know, very stressful situations,
people that are like really struggling financially or have to
move or you know, now I'm used to seeing my
kids every day and I don't see them every day,
and you know, to try really hard to think about
those things as how do I make this what I want?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You know, how do I hard to do that in
the moment? Right?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah? Yeah, what I mean, I'm curious with all of
your experiences talking to all these people, like, how how
do you find folks do that successfully?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh? I think it's hard to find to do that
because you it's this podcast I'm hoping helps people like
there's like your mission, That's what I'm saying. There is
life after this, there is happy ever after. It's going
to be not easy, but we're going to get to
the other side. And so many people have found their
(23:04):
mission pretty much in making a difference in this divorce world.
You know, it turned out to be healers or coaches
or mindful or manifesting or they you know, therapy, psychologists,
they coaches. They started doing stuff to make a difference.
It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I mean, yeah, back.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Then when I got divorced, there and I don't remember
if I told you this or not. There weren't podcasts,
There weren't really books out there, there weren't people. We
didn't talk about breathing and mindful and manifesting and all
that stuff. I knew one person in my town who
was getting divorced. I didn't even know her, and I
sent her a message. You don't know me, but I
(23:47):
think we have something in common. And that was my
first connection. Because I didn't tell anyone for over a
year that I was seeing. My kids were so little,
so I didn't It was very you know, hush hush,
and town nobody was Now a lot of people. You know,
now it's a big difference, and now it's not like
a stigma or talked about. And yeah, it was hard
(24:09):
because my kids were little. Yeah, and you know, I
was really involved in the school, in the in the town,
so it was difficult. But so I I you know,
I can't speak from then, but I can speak from
now that most people that come on here are doing
something to help other people.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, which is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. I think when I was in the moment, like,
I didn't think about the next in the next chapter.
I just thought of I just lived in the moment,
you know, and it was so busy raising two kids
that I wasn't thinking about like later I was working
about you know that I was just there and that's.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I suppose to. I think there is a difference
in the grief process. And I honestly don't have the
research on this off the top of my head, but
just from my experiences, I think there's a difference to
when how you come about the divorce. Right, if you're
someone that really discerned and thought and thought about this
(25:17):
for months, right, and then you decide together we need
to seprate, or you are the person that initiates, right,
I think that's a different experience than if you're blindsided
and you didn't know right or some you know, you
find out about an affair and you're like I can't
do this and then it's done right, different grief.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
One of my guests, one of my guests that was
just on recently, she talked about how and this is
really fitting for this, like she was she was in it.
Then she stopped working and she was stay at home mom,
and she was like, there was no way I could
be a stay at home mom. Nothing against my kids,
I just didn't want to just be a stay at
home mom. I wanted to be a stay at home
I wanted to be a mom, and I wanted to
(26:00):
have a career. And then she's started doing stuff on
the weekends, and then she realized she was building a
career so she could eventually leave her husband and she
would have this career. And so she was like she
was like wow. I was like blown away, And I
was like wow, because most people are not like that.
They're just they try to they figure it out after
(26:21):
all of this and after all the turmoil, and then
they're like, now what.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And a lot of you know, a lot of the
women that I work with are also coming out of
very toxic relationships, narcissistic abuse and sometimes physical abuse, sexual abuse.
Like there's a lot of And the reason I bring
up emotional abuse and narcissistic abuse is that a lot
(26:48):
of people have the experience of not wanting to leave
those relationships, even though it's very clear it's unhealthy to
everybody on the outside.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Do you think people women especially don't leave these toxic
relations they know they need to break the cycle for
their kids, for themselves, Why don't they leave.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well, it's a it's a very complex and unfortunately pretty
well studied phenomenon, the like cycle of power and control.
And so I think people that I think the simplest
answer is fear. Right, the person there with has done
such a good job, which is a really weird way
(27:32):
to put it, or a screwed up way to put it.
They've done such a good job of putting fear in
that person and debilitating their self esteem to the point
where people really believe, like, no one will love me,
I won't be able to make it on my own,
I'm stupid. I would hurt my kids if we let.
I mean, they like to be.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Scared to be alone too, right, they're scared to be alone.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
They've also usually done in those sorts of dynamics, there's
often a well based fear of I will ruin you,
like I will hurt you, So sometimes people are afraid
of actually being hurt, which does happen. We know that
it's the most dangerous time to leave a domestic violent
(28:16):
situation is when you leave, right, That's the most when
the most crime and most violence happens when you're threatening
to leave. And so you know there but more subtle,
not less toxic, though, are things like I'll tell all
of your friends and family. What you know, you're such
(28:37):
a slut or whatever it is. I control all the money,
You're not going to have anything like. There's these really
narcissistic abuse you sometimes doesn't involve physical abuse, but the
psychological manipulation is so much more potent and toxic that
(28:58):
they're just really afraid. Right, And then there's the kind
of classic cycle of something happens, it's really bad. You're like,
I'm going to get out of here. This is terrible,
and then they go into the apologetic I'll change, I'll
do anything, I'll go to therapy. Here's a diamond necklace,
and then we're kind of right back where we started, right.
(29:21):
I read a stat years and years ago. It's probably
outdated now, but it was something like the average woman
tries to leave a domestic violence relationship seven times before
she successfully does, and that has all to do with
the power and control, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So we can't change somebody. So yeah, if you're fix
trying to fix somebody, it's you're not going to fix
somebody because they can fix themselves that they want to.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And often they often these patterns of relationships come with
a period of really good, like really we call it
love bombing, but like it was so wonderful, this was
the man in my dreams, right, and then they get
married or they have a kid, and like a switch flips,
(30:12):
and then you're in this terrible environment and there's you know,
there's a lot of markers for that, there's a lot
of people that talk about that. But it's so complicated,
you know, and it's so hard. And so the point
that I'm bringing up with that is, depending where you
are on your healing journey, you have to do all
(30:33):
that work first of starting to acknowledge like this was
really wrong this and that takes a long time right
before you can start to grieve and then start that
next chapter of like my post learn how to use yourself? Yes, yes,
(30:53):
so practical strategies when parenting isn't collaborative or is and
for the kids when when the school, when you change schools,
when you haven't when you move, when you're in a
new relationship with someone, like how do you help the
kids with all that?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And I think this segue is really perfectly because you know,
if to those types of relationships we were just talking about,
if you left someone like that and you've you've gone
on the journey of awakening to what that experience actually was.
That that wasn't love that you needed to get out.
Something happened and you and you did it, and we're
(31:31):
so proud of you. Right, you know that's not really
somebody that it's a good idea for you to be
collaboratively co parenting with. Right, I'm not going to tell
you to like go have a picnic lunch on the
side of your kid's soccer field with this guy that
abused you, Right, Like, that's not okay. And so in
(31:53):
those dynamics, like I guess this is a person you
wouldn't normally have a relationship with, but because there are
kids involved, you have to. And so what do we
recommend in those situations. We recommend something called parallel parenting.
This is not my term parallel parenting. You can think
(32:13):
of it like you're on two train tracks or two
sides of the interstate and you don't cross. Right, you
have your time, I have my time. Our rules don't overlap,
Our punishments don't overlap. If we're grounded at one house,
doesn't mean you're grounded there. Our screening rule like nothing overlaps,
and a lot of these families do not communicate aside
(32:36):
from through formal channels, So they communicate on an app
or through their attorneys, and that's it. There is no
phone call, there is no we're not texting, if we're emailing,
there's like very specific structure around it. And that can
you kind of bring it full circle. That can help
with the healing, That can help with your mindset, and
(32:59):
that can help you protect your kids because you're just
controlling what happens in your lane as best as you can.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So what if it isn't what if it isn't mental
or physical abuse or anything like that, you're just you're
getting divorced, and you know obviously there's going to be
hurt on both sides no matter what. Probably, would you recommend,
like having dinner with your ex and the kids? Would
you recommend doing things together? Would How do you feel
about that?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, actually that's a great point, Wendy, because there's.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
A kid, the kids false hope also like when you
do that, kids do better.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
The less conflict there is, full stop, Like that's it.
That's what the research shows. And so presuming that you
can have time together and be friendly and it not
end in conflict and I'm including conflict that's sort of
felt maybe not said, or if behind the scene, like
(33:58):
you get back in the car and you're like, oh
like that like that a lot, right, then I think
that's what that is. What's best for kids to have
a united front, to have that sort of uh we're
going for business like or friendly, right, That is hands
(34:19):
down what's best for kids. What's important to know about that, though,
is that anybody who has achieved that in their co
parenting dynamic will tell you this took time and a
lot of work, because it does. And what we know
from the literature is that it takes about two years
for kids and everybody to sort of level out post divorce.
(34:42):
And during those initial year to two years, it's pretty
common to move to start in parallel parenting as you heal,
and then over time get more friendly and collegial. Right.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And what about if there's a move or there's a
new relationship, you're bringing a new relationship in and all
that stuff, do you how do you?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, relationships? I mean that's like a whole nother episode.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
That's a whole other episode. Okay, let's table that is.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
What I will say is that you can expect a
whole other layer of grief to be opened up for
everyone when a partner is introduced. It is helpful if
both people have an agreement about how long we're going
to date somebody and what the protocol is for introducing
them to each other and the kids. Right, my kids
(35:41):
spending the night somewhere, I'm going to want to know
who the adults are in the house and you here
right right, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
If it's my it's a babysitter or a partner.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So for me, it would be really important to meet
that person, and I would articulate that right. A lot
of families put that into their parenting plan around, like
they date for at least a certain period of time,
usually six months, then they meet the co parent, then
they introduce to the kids that like, there's steps that
(36:14):
you can do to help kids. You could do those
steps perfectly, and the kids and you as adults are
going to find new pockets of grief when that happens.
Even if you don't want to get back together with
that person, it just means it's really done right. It's
usually the.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Last that's a whole other episode we're going to dive
into next time with Yeah, what is it truly this
I want to talk about briefly. Your kids first system
is six months, talk about that and also your co
parenting businesses learn with Little House. But I want to
ask you what does it truly mean to rewrite life
(36:51):
as a parent after divorce? Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I love that me too. I think that what I
would say to that, Wendy is that parents and children
and their kids are not defined by this one event, right,
It's not. It doesn't have to be your whole personality.
It doesn't have to be their whole personality, right, And
(37:19):
kids do do okay right, Like look at me, I
have a doctorate, I'm doing okay right, not just but
like you know, have a really happy family, and you know,
like all the other measures as well. I would say,
maybe I don't know that feels brady, But the point
is you're not defined by it. Like kids can and
(37:42):
do do okay and come out to be happy, well
adjusted adults.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
They do.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
You haven't ruined them, okay, And you also can as
a mom. You're not defined by it, you know. That's
what I would.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Say that because I was so well said, and that
will be a sound bite because I want mom's dads
is you know, young adults. I want them all to
hear that.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, I want to like shake moms sometimes and be like,
oh my gosh, you didn't ruin your kid. You didn't, right,
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So yeah, we have choices in this life and we
get to choose, and.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Just being worried about some of those things means that
you're being intentional. Right, If you're worried that your kid
is really affected by it, then you're the type of
mom that's being really active in supporting them and finding
them resources and connecting with people and working on it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I worry about the parents that aren't asking me that question, yeah,
more than the ones that do. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
What you do is so amazing. Kids must be so
rewarding for you too.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Well, sorry, there's a siren hopefully.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Oh god, so I don't even hear it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
It's okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Well, you know this is just like the podcast world, right,
what happens happened? Sometimes there's a dog barking, sometimes there's
someone at the door.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It is really what.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
An amazing episode. This was just like a lot of fun.
So your kids first system, Yeah, yeah, that briefly and
then gosh, please come back again and again and again.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I just love it. I love talking to you, Wendy.
You have a real gift of getting people to open up.
So the Kids First System is the way that I
have developed to help moms as they move their kids
through these stages.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
A lot of the program talks about the difference between
collaborative co parenting versus parallel parenting. A lot of women
in it are dealing with really high conflict co parents.
I wouldn't say they are high conflict. I would say
that most of them are like, please stop, Like I
would love for this to stop. They're having to respond
(40:10):
to a lot of litigation and toxicity towards the kids, etc.
So what it is is there's a whole bunch of
learning curriculum things that you can work through. Lessons on
various topics like transitions and how to talk to kids
about divorce and what to do when your kids in
(40:31):
the middle, and how to manage all of these things.
The BIFF response which isn't mine, but like, we teach
these strategies and other strategies as well. And then the
most powerful part of it is every week moms hop
on a call, they have the option to hop on
a call with me as a group, and we talk
(40:51):
through whatever they need in that moment, and sometimes there's
really specific things. This week, we just had a mom
come on and she's like, I just need moral support, right,
I just need a little encouragement. I just need you
to tell me it's going to be okay and that
I'm not alone with saying kind of what you were
talking about, being able to have somebody to bounce ideas
(41:12):
off of, to talk through and be in the hard
parts with you. And then a lot of support for kids.
So we troubleshoot a lot of things, like we had
a lovey issue this week of the love is not
coming home from preschool because of the way the schedule is,
and how do we troubleshoot that logistically? But more importantly
(41:36):
talk to the kiddo about where their beloved stuff. He
is like, what's the words we use?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, so stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Really, I would like to listen in on that call,
just to listen in because wow, what amazed. That's an
amazing support system.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
It's incredible. I mean the women, I feel like I
know the women and their kids going to say you
must so well, yeah, it's a real gift to me
as well as to them. So that's that's our kind
of big program. We have some we offer free master
classes every month. We have one that runs all the time.
I have my own podcast, the Kids fir To Congratulations,
(42:18):
Thank You, Thank You, Kids First, co Parenting, and that's
on you know all Apple, Spotify everywhere, And that's a
way for me to get information to people to just
start to get to know me and learn some some
starting steps right and get invited into this world because
(42:38):
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
There's a lot to learn. There's learn I mean I learned.
I learned just from some of my guests. Come on,
and you know so much from you, and God, there
needs to be like a hundred more of you.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I mean, Wendy, the world is not ready for even
one more Carolyn.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Trust but you know, listen, learn with Little House, your
co parenting business and your Kids First system. That's like
amazing that you built that. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I'm really proud of it. I am, and I
think it's really helpful. I think it helps moms and
that's really my mission. It is your mission to help
kids through their moms.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
You know, yep, that's right. The real way to help
kids is to help their parents.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It is. Yeah, yeah, So that's that's it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
That's where we are, all right, doctor, So you will
be back again. Thank you so much for this, for everything,
and I appreciate you, Wendy, thanks so much. Nito Kuda
Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut and New
York families through complex divorce actions, contested child custody, and
alimony disputes for over thirty years. Their Connecticut and New
(43:52):
York attorneys have extensive experience in family matters involving substance abuse,
domestic violence, mental illness, and many other factors that can
complicate a divorce. Their attorneys adeptly manage privacy and reputation
concerns inherit to public divorce proceedings and the related exposure
for their ultra high net worth clients. Find your new
(44:13):
path forward, define your post divorce family, and secure an
enforceable agreement to protect your future with Needlecuda Act Now
put the strength of their team behind you. Visit them
at Needlecuda dot com or call two O three five
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.