Love, Power & Vampires: Kat Kingsley on The Serpent’s Bride.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show. Hey everybody,
and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show for our
second interview this week, the second of four, which is
really exciting, and we've got a great guest on for

(00:23):
you tonight. And I'm sure if you know this person,
you'll be really interested in this. And if you don't,
then you've got someone new you can follow and check out. Chris.
How are you doing in the week so far? We're
nearly at Friday, and it's been a long week for
us both. I know that, but how you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, we were talking just before the show. We've both
had various different trials and tribulations this week. Obviously, On
missed Tuesday's interview because I went out after six weeks
of not playing football and I have a torn metcalf
on my acl. I'm not too sure yet, but it
means I am pretty much in a chair for ninety

(01:00):
percent of my day now, which is not fun.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, you know, it's that kind of we'll get into
that middle aged era and strenuous exercise perhaps isn't the
best thing. And I had a blowout on the way
home to add to an already interesting week. So yes, blowout,
meaning my tire popped if you don't know what that means,
and he says, sorry, whoy ouch. Yeah, it does sound

(01:24):
like a painful one, buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah. When when a part of your leg feels like
it bursts and then it just feels like hot jelly,
that's not not fun. So yeah, I think I'll just
stick to reading. It's the best leisure activity you could do.
It requires no pain. I've never had so much as
a paper cut from reading. So I think I'm just

(01:47):
gonna lean into that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think you've put you put it out there now
that might happen. Maybe, Yeah, you have to let us know.
With the two shows tomorrow, we have planned one that
we wanted to get out there in the public live streamed.
Won't be live streamed, unfortunately for you guys. It's a
really good, big guest and we have to wait for

(02:10):
the book release to release the interview, so we'll pre
record that tomorrow. But our show at eight pm with
Adele Parks will also be live like tonight, so you
can tune in for that as well. She's celebrating her
release which is today twenty five years twenty five best
sellers incredible. We've had her on before, ironically the day

(02:30):
after a release last time, when she was a little hungover,
So I'll be interested to see how hungover she is tomorrow.
But yes, we've got some great things going on. We
want to know how your week is going. Have you
been writing and are you reading something new? If you are,
let us know. But yeah, apart from that, anything else,
Chris before we get our guest done.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean I have been doing a little bit
of Briton. I've been doing a bit of poetry.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I got Rubik's Cube because, like I said, I was sad,
sat down and yeah, I tried to master that so
I couldn't do it. I've done about halfway up the
cube and then it just all goes completely wrong. But
I've tried, and anyway, that inspired me to write a
poem about a Rubic's cube. That's what I did today.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
If I was to write about a poem about a
Rubic's cube, the probably fullest waywards. And he says her
week's been busy with school stuff, but I add did
add to my work in progress, So well done for
doing that as well. Yeah, it's good to see people
are getting their work done.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Again, people, the work done. Obviously, we have a book
to talk about today as well, which is fantastic. If
you're into dark vampire romances, you will definitely dig this one.
So yeah, hopefully we're going to have a really good
conversation and maybe pick up a few tips as well.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Chris, Yes, definitely, we would like to know about your week.
But also what you can do in the comments in
the chat is, first of all, speak to each other,
because that's a great thing to do and build a
community like that. But you can ask questions about the
show and we've got a designated section for the questions
at the end. If you're watching this on YouTube, please
hit that like button, subscribe if you haven't, and leave

(04:19):
some comments in there as well, because that'll help like
minded people find the show. And oh, Noel, thank you already,
great buck, brilliant. You should do a Rubik's Cube completion. Mmm,
it's very difficult. There you go, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
About seven hours.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Oh you have done it.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, I've done it once.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
I've never done it. Okay, let me get tonight's guest
on and we'll get into a good conversation everybody. So
we are joined by an author who's been making waves
in fantasy and romance with a darkly addictive stories, and
she has calved out her own space in the world
of romance to see, blending vampires, mythology, and high stakes
romance into unforgettable tales. Her latest book, Chris is Showing

(05:07):
Off the Serpent's Bride, launches today and it kicks off
a powerful new vampire mafia series with evengance, intrigue, and
forbidden love. Cat has already built a loyal following of
readers who can't get enough of a morally gray characters
and page turning twists. Whether you've been a following follower
of Cat's work for a while or you're just discovering

(05:28):
her amazing stories. Tonight, let's give a huge, warm welcome
to Kat and Kingsley. Hello, Hey, everybody, how are you doing.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I'm doing great. I have an Old Fashioned, which is
my favorite. You told me I could drink on this,
so I was not going to say now.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
So yeah, there we go.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
How can we love that? Yeah, it's three in the
afternoon here, so you know it's eight pm somewhere.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's true, but three o'clock is a great time to
start drinking. I think I think the old do you
get the early you want to start, the early you
want to go to bed. I think that's kind of
a rule.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, And it's it's a Friday for my day job.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
So you know, there you go perfect. So it's a
Friday for your day job. You've got a nice drink
in your hand, and it's launched day. How are you
feeling about that?

Speaker 3 (06:16):
I'm so excited. Literally, I've been working on this book
for over a year, and so it's funny because I
had finished this manuscript probably January, so it's surreal to
me that it's coming out now. And like that's sometimes
how slow traditional publishing can work. That you're like, oh,
I finished the proofs of that in January, and everyone

(06:37):
is just now getting into it, and I'm like, oh,
write that book right. Like I'm twenty thousand words into
the third, the final book of the series, and so
sometimes I have to like go back and refresh my
memory about what happens. So it is it is so exciting, though,
because you get so far ahead that sometimes you lose

(06:59):
attached to how exciting these things are. And then when
it comes out, you see everybody get all excited again,
and you it's like a kid at Christmas again. You
get to see all the readers get jacked up about
like reading the book for the first time, and you're like, oh, right, yeah,
that thing I did. That thing I did was.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Pretty cool, right, yeah, very cool, and congratulations. It's great
to start a new series and to get through all
your work and then to start something new like that.
And it's amazing to hear already going through book three
of the series, so that must be very exciting. But
what we want to do just before we do that
is kind of dig into you A little more. Comment

(07:37):
just came up from Noel. I hope you're having a
great published publication day, and thank you for the graveyard
video which I did see. That was very fun.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
It literally me wandering around in a circle for half
an hour just filming bloopers of myself. I'm too old
for selfie videos and so I'm just like, what am
I doing right now?

Speaker 1 (07:59):
I So, yeah. The first thing I tend to ask
people is where where are you coming from? Where do
you live at the moment?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
So this is Hanover, Massachusetts. This home that I'm in
is three hundred years old. Wow, built in seventeen twenty seven.
Tilting the camera up, you can see the cool beams
in the ceiling and the wood walls are all like
eighteen to twenty inch wide wood. I know this Like
you guys are in England, You're like, yes, my garage

(08:30):
was built in fourteen eighty seven. It's a different it's
a different level of old. But for America it's it's
you know, we're it's older than our country to put
it in perspective, so you know, it's really fun. And
so we love this kind of stuff, my husband and I.
You can see the red coat up over our head,

(08:52):
and this fire back here that came with the house
is actually from we think sixteen eighty six. We're a
little bit older than that, so somebody brought this from England.
We believe we're super into history, which uh plays less
into the books that I write than you'd think. Historical
fiction requires so much very specific research, and I know

(09:15):
so many historians that will call me out on my shit,
uh that I'm always afraid to write really accurate historical fiction.
Like my husband is the creative director of the Boston
Tea Party, Ships and Museum. He's like, when are you
going to write a pirate romance and I'm like, literally
never because I will not for the end of it.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
That's brilliant. So in your local area, do you connect
with your readers and you write its locally? It's a
it's like a local community there.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
I it's funny. I know that they're around, I know
that they're here, but it's it's Writing can often be
and this is what I love what you guys do.
Writing can often be such a lonely experience, like we're
kind of afraid to talk to each other and I
don't know why, and so I wish I could find
more of the people in my area that write in
my genre. Like one thing that I just learned that

(10:07):
other writers do. Sometimes my hands go faster than my brain,
so I will repeat words in a manuscript like the
the or he he, and I just don't. I thought
I was having an aneurysm, and I'm like, I must
be the only person who does this, and I recently
found out like, no, that's just normal. The hardware goes
faster than the software. Yeah, And I'm like, oh, I

(10:29):
feel better about this now. And this is why I
feel like more writers really need to just talk to
each other, even if it's just a you know, AA
support group.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Oh, I agree with you on that one. I do
the same, and I've definitely been caught out with that
once or twice. Yes, brilliant. So that's remind the tape
a bit. Where at what point did writing become a
spark in your brain?

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Oh? Since I was young, I always was writing stories,
and I started, like I think a lot of writers
are sometimes afraid to admit that they started in fan fiction,
playing in somebody else's sandbox. And I realized as I
started making more and more excuses for building my own
world inside somebody else's sandbox, it was finally time to

(11:15):
sort of knock the walls off the edges and go
out into my own world. I think my first book
that I published like twelve years ago, that I've unpublished
now because it was terrible, because it was like I
was afraid to write romance like a lot of people are,
because there's such a stigma still around it. It's getting
better as time goes on and then, but it just

(11:41):
even even when I was like, I don't know, fifteen,
sixteen years old, I was always jotting down fiction stories.
I was always, you know, keeping a notepad open and
writing down ideas, telling stories to myself in my head
as I fell asleep, And so it was always something
that I dreamt of doing, and I never really thought
it would be something that I could do full time

(12:03):
or something that I could do even as a side hobby.
And to be able to do it now both as
a day job for a video game and as a
novelist and be able to do both is just wild.
And it's two very different distinct worlds of writing that

(12:25):
both compliment each other and are very different from each
other in the same way.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I'm going to take you back them because obviously you
mentioned about writing romans. I'm playing Elsa's sandbox, so I'm
going to a twofold question whose sandbox were you playing in?
And why did you want to start writing romance?

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Uh, Castlevania is where I started, actually, and it actually
hooks into people ask me why I write villain romance
and specifically villains with a capital V, and why I
call it different than say, like dark romance. And so
all of the stories that I've write feature villains that

(13:08):
are sort of melodramatic and very spectacular in a kind
of way. They all have a real sort of characteristic
about them that is overblown, sort of to a way
that you could say, here's the thing. I coined. A
friend of mine once that my books are for people

(13:29):
who were sexually confused by Freddy Krueger, not Jeffrey Dahmer.
And I'm going to stick to that. They're kind of
horror movies, not true crime. And I figured this out once,
very early in my novel writing career, because as I
was writing a book that featured a As I was

(13:51):
writing a book featuring an undead magician, he had done horrible,
horrible things. He had possessed a kid, made him hang himself.
He had thrown the female character into a body pit
and left her there until she screamed herself unconscious, and
then at the penultimate scene, he reeled back and slapped
the woman. The hate mail I received about the slap

(14:17):
was unreal, and I was like, what is it about
the slap that triggered people where the crazy murder and
unhanged stuff that he had done before then hadn't. And
I realized the fantasy violence was fine because it was
a horror movie. The real life violence that can happen

(14:39):
to people day to day, that kind of abusive stuff. No,
not in my books. And so that's why I call
myself villain romance and not dark romance. So a lot
of the stuff that you can find in your typical
mafia romance or a typical like biker romance that a
lot of dark romance authors can get away with isn't
for my audience and is for my genre. My guys

(15:02):
are much more Dracula. And that's where the Castlevania stuff
comes in. Where the very first time I ever saw
a real villain romance was in Castlevania's Symphony of the
Night for PlayStation, where Dracula is shown to have a
non problematic romantic relationship with a female human woman named Lisa.

(15:25):
She has not been turned into a vampire. She's not evil.
She just wanted to be a doctor. She was going
about her merry old business, living in a castle with
a bunch of monsters who are all killing people doing
their thing, and she died because of a bunch of
actions of a human like the humans in town. And
I'm like, where's that love story? Where's that novel? What's

(15:46):
their deal? How did that happen? Like where's there? Why
is there no fiction about that? And I went looking
for those books, and those books didn't exist. So I
was like, huh, okay, I guess I'm gonna have to
it's my own. And so I set out trying to
make villain romance the whole genre where it was truly

(16:08):
where villains stay villains, where the bad guy gets the
girl and stay is the bad guy, but they are
bad guys in a really mellow drama kind of horror
movie kind of way that you would see from you know,
the movies of the eighties or from typical like gothic

(16:29):
romance type of stuff. They're all very fun and it's
it's horror and it's overblown, but it's like in one
of my Dracula duets, he cuts off a guy's hand
and like makes the guy eat it, and it's like, yeah,
it's gross and it's horrifying and it's scary, but it's
not something you would read about in the Sunday newspaper
about some guy like maybe in extremely rare cases, but

(16:53):
it's meant to sort of be fantasy and for fun.
So that is that's sort of like the line that
I sort of draw between the two, and I think
when I stray too far into realism. It really sort
of puts off my audience.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
So what I find interest in there is when people
tend to write something that's not out there already, it's
quite hard to build up that following. And like you have, so,
did you find it a difficult thing to try and
build that author base and profile with a new kind
of area of writing.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
I have a smaller audience, but they are a dedicated audience.
So I have like a small group of very loyal readers,
and then I have series that will either pop off
or not. And so I have books that will be
very successful because they hit at a time or they don't.
But I have a core group of people that like

(17:50):
live on my discord with me, that will be there
with me till I, like, you know, throw in the towel.
And so I have a very loyal, very small group
of followers that are slowly building as time goes on.
But you know, someone came in and screamed in all caps,
like Simon is my favorite person, Like that's one of

(18:10):
the main villains that guy. Yep, thank you, Minaar. Simon
is one of the main characters from one of my
most popular series and raziel And NAUGHTI are the ones
that are in you know, this, this book that just
came out today. So people tend to find me from
one book and then just demolish my backlog, which is.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
The beauty of having a catalog and a new series
as well, because that can happen.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah. So it's it's tough being like your little niche,
being like the island of like I'm my own genre.
Every once in a while, I look at the people
that are just like I write cowboy romance, and it's
like just what they do, and I'm just like, I
wish I made seven figures a year churning out cowboy romance,
but that's just not That's not what I write. And

(19:02):
I just I can't fake.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
It in me.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
This is not in me.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah. So you mentioned as well with this series being
a trilogy. Was that always the plan or did you
just write one book and then think, oh, this has
got legs to go elsewhere.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
It was always the intention to make it a trilogy.
I'm not very good at standalones. Even when I'm like
I'm gonna write a standalone whoops, They're all connected. Like
I try so hard, I just I can't do it.
And I found that, like, especially with my audience, they're
always expecting a connected universe and no, no cowboy romance.

(19:41):
But what about Western? Can we do? Can we dark Western? Noel?
How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1 (19:48):
We can do dark anything? I think I love when
there's darkness involved in that sort of element that takes
you away from the real reality and puts you into
an escape. Use escapism.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
No dark Wester damn it.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
But yeah, I think so why not?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah the pirate aspect. To be honest, I know you
dis bad pirates, but I was like.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
I do I do love me? I do love me
a pirate? I just uh, I just laughed because my
husband's gonna have to be sitting there like taking notes,
being like that's not a yard arm, that's a spar Like,
oh no, you're.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Right though, because there is that pressure. You look at
Andy Weir and doing all the stuff he does in
the space world and the accuracy he's got with that work.
It must be an enormous pressure if you haven't got
that scientific or research kind of ability to try and
produce something that you think people will be happy with.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
I mean, the other benefit is I have the guy
who like is the resident expert on like just the
clipper Ship Traders for like, so I could just go
ask him be like so what's the difference between this
and that? But you know.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's on its way.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, And I love it when the villains get the girl.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
It it's fun too, because like if you go out
and you get a normal like bad guy gets the girl,
it's like, oh, the first time that they get together,
he's suddenly now like redeemed and is suddenly because it's
always hard to keep them the bad guy, and that
is something that is hard to maintain. Like I have
a problem of like over reliance on dream sequences because like, yeah,

(21:34):
it's really hard to keep the guy threatening and also
have them hang out for romance. So there's always like, well,
I guess, I guess he's gonna have to stay evil
and we're gonna have to have psychic dream sequences because
otherwise she's gonna get stabbed. And so there's a lot
of there's a lot of reliance on like weird tropes
to try and keep them dangerous but also romantic. So

(21:57):
there's a lot of like weird gothic roma man's like
fantasy tropiness things that I have to keep doing like
and insert another dream sequence.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
So what have you got for someone who wants to
write in that kind of world? Then, where they're trying
to write a character, the niece to try and stay
the villain without making them too nice, because that does
obviously ruin the whole premise.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
The trick is making sure that you stay true to
their motivations, because villains are a villain for a reason,
Like they have a motivation in their head. But here's
the other thing. They don't think they're a villain. Like
they've maybe accepted the fact that everybody around them hates them,
or maybe they haven't accepted that, and that's part of

(22:40):
their thing. But they don't wake up every morning being
like I'm the asshole. Like they don't. That's not how
they think about themselves, or if they do, maybe they
wear that as a badge of pride. But they they
wake up and they feel like they need to be
who they are, or they feel like they need to

(23:01):
do the things that they're doing for a reason, or
they feel justified in their actions, or like nobody wakes
up the villain of their own life story is the
quote that I that I use. So it's like, how
did this person become like this, what is their motivation
and stay true to that and understand that that motivation
isn't going to change one hundred percent instantaneously the moment

(23:25):
they have sex. And it's like Darcy, yes, one hundred
percent things can become different when they fall in love,
but it's going to be a compromise. It has to
be a meet in the middle situation. It's not like
they're going to be like, well, I'm in love. I
guess I don't want to destroy the world anymore, even

(23:45):
though I've spent thousands of years with that being my
sole motivation in the world. Heay. And it's like that's
when it really starts to feel kind of cheap, and
it feels kind of like, oh well, the power of love,
and its just starts to feel a little like, okay,
so this is a parable and it's not. It starts

(24:06):
to defeat that character's whole purpose and like modus oper Randy,
it's like, you want to stay true to them. How
do you meet in the middle with that female character.
It's like, how do you or vice versa, if your
if your villain's a female or male male or female female,
But like, how do you slowly rotate the tables, show

(24:32):
their story from their point of view, and get the
audience to go, oh, no, why is he why are
they making sense?

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, I think that's We mentioned Romeo and Juliet in
one of the shows the other week about the ending,
and I think that's why it had to end the
way it did, because once they were together, the motivations
and the desperation and everything like that would be out
the window. So I think the whole shift of the
story would be completely different and it wouldn't kind of
work after that.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
That makes sense, Yeah, exactly, It's it's honestly, most of
the time, the story is how far is the female
character in my books willing to bend their morals to
meet in the middle, and how far is the guy
willing to bend the physics of his goals to be like, Okay,

(25:23):
I'm happy, but but I didn't quite get what I wanted.
But I think I'm okay. Like sometimes there's a there's
a little bit of like a stretch where they have
to kind of like my most popular series, The Uncily Prince,
which is the Maze of Shadows series. His whole goal

(25:45):
is to destroy Earth and he ends up locked in
and just eternal conflict with the female female character. That's
their happy ending, and it's like by the end of yeah,
but by the end of the series, you're kind of like, oh, yeah, no,
is this perfectly works out for them. They just have
a complicated relationship that's the whole and everyone's like, I

(26:08):
ship it because you've spent four books being like, yeah,
this is just how fay logic works. Okay, anyway, moving on.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, well on that, then, what tips have you got
for writers that are looking to try and bring characters
together but keep them very much on their individual paths
as well, in terms of, you know, they don't lose
themselves in that connection. How do you do that? As
a writer?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
You have to follow the characters, like, you have to
listen to them. Like, I'm very much much a panser
not a plotter, so and I find that when people
say they're a pans not a plotter, it means they're
following the characters, not the story. And so the characters
are generally leading the action when you're a panther, and

(26:54):
so you're not following so much that the and then
Jimmy does this and Sally does that, you're following your
characters around with an incident report and just following your
people and going, hey, moron, what are you doing and why?
And occasionally you wind up going in circles going who
packed the plot? Oh, nobody? Great? Cool, And then you
have to go home because nobody packed the plot. That

(27:16):
has happened to me many times. And so when you
ever try to force your characters to do something, or
you say, well, I have to have this ending, so
I'm going to make a character do something that they
don't want to do or I don't feel as legitimate

(27:37):
to them. Like if you have to listen to your
characters and pay attention to what feels right for them,
and if you don't know your characters, at least your
main characters on that intrinsic level, it isn't going to
feel right when they make those kinds of choices. So,
to me, a pantser versus a plotter is just the

(28:00):
difference between who is taking the like what part of
your story is taking the lead? Is it your characters
or is it your storyline? And for me, it's the
characters that are taking the storylines because they are so
intricate and they have to be leading the dance because
they have such an intricate like interplay by the time

(28:22):
they get to the ending, and if I let the
story lead the dance, it starts to feel a little artificial.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I got question I've never asked before, but I feel
like I can't skit because of the nature of the book.
As a writer, what's the difference between how you build
romance and write romance and then the sex scene element
as well? How do you do that? So me and

(28:52):
Chris have talked about how awkward it is for a
writer sometimes to write a scene a certain nature, and
we've we've both tried it and probably failed miserably. So
you know, it sounds that me saying, what's the difference
between romans and sex? But on the stage, what are
you trying to do that's different?

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Now?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
So, honestly, like a good example of this is uh So,
working with Second Sky, I have to I have to
be a little bit of a plotter. I have to
come up with an outline and a synopsis because otherwise
books get recycled and that can be frustrating. And so
what will often end up happening is I will send

(29:30):
an outline off and be like and there will be
sex scenes in here, and they will happen when they
naturally happen, And that is just how it flows for me,
because again, I'm a pancer, and the character moments happen
when the character moments happen. So for me, it's sort
of like and then suddenly, well, okay, and now they're
just going to and now this all right, And so

(29:52):
it's very much natural in the way that two human
beings are just gonna, you know, when they're getting romantic,
are just gonna you know. And so that's just sort
of how it happens in the book. When I'm writing it,
I don't think about, like, ah, I have not met
my quota of precisely two points seven scenes in this book. Occasionally,

(30:16):
in retrospect I will look at it and be like, well,
there's like five in the first book and zero in
the second book. I should probably read her expectations and all.
But so I will sit there and be like, should
I is this an editing thing? Should I maybe go
back and polish this? No pun intended?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Uh? Here? Yes, well done to.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Welcome to being a romance writer. Everything on everything, everything,
my poor, my poor day job. Coworkers I'm just like,
everything is that is that? That's what she says. She says, joke,
I'm always making them die laughing in meetings all the way, always, yes, always,

(31:01):
and so anyway, So I try to just let things
happen naturally like that, because also, if you're trying to
again while talking innuendo, if you're trying to shoeharn things
in there again, it feels authentic and it's not going
to be an enjoyable experience for either me as the
writer or for the people reading it, because it's going

(31:22):
to be like, well, oh okay, why and it won't
flow naturally for anyone. I'm just going to leave that
there before I get myself in trouble.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
You won't want this show, trust this, we'll find Yeah,
how do you know where the cut off point is?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Because like, I've read novels where they close the door
and that's it, and then I've read ones where they
go into a little tiny bit of detail but then
they start, and then I've read others where I'm like, wow,
this is like a whole chapter of a sex scene here.
So again, as from a writer's point of view, what
you're trying to do in terms of like the craft
of that. And when I said before about the romance,
I'm just going to bring it back to that. How

(32:00):
do you soltly develop a romance over the course of
a series.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
It depends on the characters. The characters again, I let
them sort of drive the show more often than I should,
and the characters are often setting the pace and the tone.
And I think sometimes even as an author, I think
sometimes I can't pick a lane because the characters are
driving so much. Raziel and Naddy are so stabby and

(32:32):
so after each other that this book is a lot
steamier than some of my other books because of just
the dynamic between these two and the way that they
went after each other. If you were to pick up
a book like the Iron Crystal series, those characters are
a little bit more standoffish in the beginning because of
just their characters and the way that they're They're much

(32:56):
more of a true slow burn. They take a lot
longer to sort of get into each other again, that's
what she said, And like, it's just it's about what
feels authentic to the characters, their situation, their personalities, and
it's not just like okay now, Kish, and it's like

(33:18):
it takes exactly seventy eight pages, and it's like, you
have to figure out how long it's going to take
these characters to do it again naturally because of how
the innuendo. Again, I don't know how to talk about
this without literally just going for it.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Then we could do this all day. I mean yeah, And.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
That's literally what I do. So the dynamics between different characters,
when you're building the romance, You've built them into a situation.
You've hopefully set them up with enough conflict that I
basically what I try to do is I have my
characters that I've built up, I've put them in a
cardboard box, and then I've shaken the cardboard box and

(34:05):
I've basically got two feral cats in there, and I'm
just like and I'm just like, Okay, now what are
they gonna do? And I'm just writing that incident report,
And so what those two cats in that cardboard box,
which is all the world building I've done, is going
to be different depending on the series, depending on their situation,
depending on all of the side characters I've given them,

(34:28):
and it's just going to be nuts depending on how
it all goes and how it all evolves.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
So.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
It is different for every single series, every single character
set Roadinger's Naughty Cats, Yes, exactly Schrodinger's Naughty Cats. And
I think that's what's so much fun about starting a
new series is like, Okay, so what are these two
psychopaths gonna do to me this time? Like how crazy

(34:58):
are these people going to be? And that's that's what's
also fun about villains is because they can be so
unpredictable and they can go anywhere, do anything, and will
do anything. They will burn the world down, they will
burn somebody else's world down. They will kill people, they
have killed people. They will do literally anything. And so
because of that, like I had Simon, the character from

(35:20):
Harrow Fair. I was in the second book and the
female character had just become immortal and she hadn't quite
accepted it yet, and so I had like four chapters
planned where the other characters were going to gently step
her through the process of I'm so sorry, you're stuck
in this circus forever and you can't ever leave and

(35:41):
you can't die. And then I realized the psychopath still
had the gun she brought and so he was like
I'm bored and shot her in the chest and I
was like, well, there goes four chapters of work, because
I was like, that's an authentic thing he would do,
and I have to follow the character, and so you
just have to let them drive. And it's like and

(36:04):
she broke his nose with a frying pan at one point,
and yet they still got together, but not until book three.
And it's like, it's just a slow burn. So sometimes
they get it on in book one, sometimes it takes
them till book three, and it's gotta let it happen
in the court natural course of action.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yes we do. Now we're going to talk all about
the brand new book that was released today, very exciting,
The Serpent's Bride. Can you let everybody know what that's
all about? Please?

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Oh you've asked an author what their book is about.
That's like author kryptonite, especially when you're.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
On book three.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
So the book is about So it is a dark
vampire mafia romantasy. It is like word salad if you
try to describe all the genres, it touches. So Raziel
Nostrum is a dark vampire mafia lord and he's got
mind control powers. He's a lot of fun and then
he offset by Nadi, who is a fay shape shifter

(37:04):
who she's held bent to kill him in his entire
family because he ruined her life. So she finds out
that he's set to marry a woman he's never met,
so she arranges to take her place, and so she
basically bribes the woman to like run away, and she

(37:24):
takes her face and her identity and infiltrates the Nostrum
family and murderous stabby Shenanigans ensue from there. And they
are way more fun than they had any right to
be to to to go into because I was like, okay,
phase shape shifting assassin, vampire, mafia lord, dark romanticy word salad,

(37:47):
what is this? I was like, okay, whatever, Oh why
are they this much fun?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (37:52):
No? And they just they are just way too entertaining together,
And in particular, usually I have to give my female
characters like a sidekick to talk to because they need
like a squishable or a hug, like a huggle like something,
because they're like up against some sort of dark lord

(38:14):
of the universe and they're just like, I'm a normal person,
what is happening? So they need like someone to talk to,
and she doesn't she's just like, nah, nah, I just
need to stab it. I just need to stab it
to death. And so she's just her inner monologue is
just fun.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
So's it's a very unique blend, like you mentioned with
Vampire Mafia, Forbidden Love, Vengeance, all the big cauldron of excitement.
So was it purely based on the fact that you
said your pensting that it just the characters led you
into this whole sort of world of chaos.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, No, it was. Okay, So you've got these characters,
here's the situation, and I didn't have anybody else for
her to talk to, so who would she be? And
it's sort of like here are the building blocks, now
go yeah, And so I just sat there and I
was like, all right, So she's been working as an

(39:09):
assassin in this weird pseudo art new Art deco metropolis,
like layer upon layer of this like pseudo It's like
this weird dystopian city built upon this island that is

(39:29):
like trying to hold back this encroaching like wild of
just nature that's trying to consume it, that's being ruled
by humans and vampires and the Fay are like this
like weird race of like creatures that are being relegated
to the underground and like being forced into the outside
of the city. So like there's this whole wall that

(39:50):
they can't go outside of in the metropolis, and so nobody,
like the Fey are not allowed like above ground. And
so she's always masquerading as a human. So she's been
running around the city for eighty years as an assassin,
so this is all old hat for her. And so
she's been studying these people. She knows him, she's been
following him like a shadow, and so I'm just like, oh,

(40:13):
she is jaded af like this is going to be great.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
And so how much of your characters It sounds like
quite a lot, But how much of your characters do
you need to know before before you actually start to
get words on the page.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
I do a lot of world building. I do a lot, so,
like I said, I sort of like have my characters
and then I build their cardboard box. So I do
a lot of structure building for the world, even if
I don't do a lot of structure building for the
story itself. So I build their like stage right, like,
so I have to have a really solid set for

(40:48):
them to play on, because even if nobody else sees it, like,
even if it never makes it onto the page, I
need to know the world rules because otherwise I might
end up content addicting myself. And even if it's like
this is why I always like to write a book
ahead of publication, especially as a pancer, because this has

(41:08):
happened to me, where I've written something that has changed
something a book prior and gone, whoops, I've just read
cons an entire book and I've had to go back
and like made sure that I haven't screwed anything up.
And one of the other things I try to do
is as a pancer is always make sure you know
your ending. Yeah, and if you ever lose your ending,

(41:33):
hit the emergency stop button, immediately stop writing, re establish
your ending, and then keep going like do not keep like,
don't be like, I'll figure it out what I get there.
I was two books into a Dracula, my Dracula Duet.
I thought it was going to be a trilogy. I
got two books through it realized I had no ending anymore,

(41:54):
had to recycle two books, start at the very beginning. Yeah,
it's like, do not if you are a panther, for
the love of God, always make sure you have your ending.
I don't care if you don't know how you're getting there,
but make sure your ending is still solid.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
I'm with writing a book if you ever read that
point where you got the ending in mind, but your
characters are taking you into such a strange direction that
you're like, oh, how do I even get back to
that point?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I just follow them. I'm like, okay, guys, I'm like,
I still think that if you still think the ending
is viable, if you still think it's like, yeah, we're
going left, but I still think we can get to
the ending somehow, But I don't know how we're going
to get there. Just follow them, see where they're going.
It might be magic if at some point they get
to somewhere where it completely invalidates the ending. Stop come

(42:48):
up with a new ending, because where they're leading you
is better than where you thought you were going.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
N Obviously, being published and knowing that the publisher's going
to want maybe a certain length or a certain word count,
does that have a play into mine because I can.
Let's say there was one hundred thousand words and you
were seventy thousand words in, and then you've only got
thirty thousand words left. To get to that point that
you're after. Does that have a like go into the

(43:18):
process where you have to then go back, maybe switch
a few things around shot and bits so you can
have that word count, or do you still follow the
characters to the end in knowing that you've got that
thirty thousand words or whatever.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
I've really tried to stay true to the book as
much as possible, even if that means I have to
go to the editor and be like, hey, Hi, sorry
about this, or even if I have to be like,
I don't think this is going to be three books.
I think it's four, or I don't think it's four,
I think it's going to be three. And oftentimes they
will work with you because they understand like a lot

(43:52):
of these people have been through it, or they're writers themselves,
or they get it, or they will be like, cool,
let's see how we can make that work, and they
will negotiate. Like publishers are not evil, they will they
are human beings, and they will sit down and they
will work with you, and they might be able to
see things that you don't like. A lot of the

(44:13):
stuff that came out in the series that is genius
came from my editor because I could not see the
forest for the trees because I'm in it, literally wandering
in circles with my characters, being like, I don't know
it's coming on. And my editor was like, have you
noticed that there's an exit? And I'm like, oh, thanks, Jack,
and I just like it's just right there. So it's

(44:34):
always good to have someone that's there to just help you. Yeah,
and that's something that an editor can do that an
author can't because you're just so in it, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, we get a lot of people watching the show
that a writers as well. How does that process work
in terms of like, you know, when you're writing a
book and you get into that point are you You
pitch the book first and the ideas, and then you
get to a certain point and send it to your editor, Like,
how does that process work?

Speaker 3 (45:00):
It depends. It depends. Sometimes I'll have a story and
I very much want it my way, and if the
editor doesn't want it, I will self publish it. If
it's a story and I go, hey, I think this
is something we could work on together, we'll workshop it
together because it's something they think they believe in. Other times,
I'll go to my editor and go what do you

(45:22):
guys want that I think I can write and we'll
workshop something together. That's very much how Serpent's Bride went,
and they were like, we think we could do something
with this, and I'm like, that sounds weird. I'm into weird,
and so that's where this story came.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Yeah, no, it was. I'm always up for trying new things,
and so it's just it's fun to sort of see
the different ways the processes work.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
I just wanted to ask that you mentioned that this
book is a little bit saucier than your previous ones.
How is that being received by your readers.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
I don't know yet. I think good. I always keep
my sex scenes kind of on the tasteful side, you
asked earlier, Holy because CJ and other Chris, because you're
both Chris. So there's like tasteful closed door, like you know,
will someone think of the children? And then there's like

(46:18):
full after two am, like to TV adverts. I try
to keep it HBO, Like if you can watch HBO,
you can probably you know it's not gonna be anything
that's fully shocking to people. I am getting more and
more into Monster Romance by benefit of the people whose

(46:41):
books I read. So it's getting a little bit friskier
as time goes on. But I try to keep the
language that I use at least tasteful because there are
certain crass words that will get thrown in as far
as descriptors goes. That always just like ripped me right
out of the fiction that I'm just like, you know,
you can't allude to what it is and we all

(47:02):
get what you're saying here. You don't need to drop
like all of the four letter words in there that
we all know, because it's like it's just it's not
in keeping with the rest of the fiction and is like, well,
now I'm just giggling because I'm a twelve year old boy.
So I just I'm just laughing because you said tit

(47:25):
in the middle of this thing, and I just I'm
laughing now. So I just try to keep it, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Just a quick look at the reviews on there already,
and one of them states how amazing the narration is
on the audiobook. Did you have much input to that.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
I like to let other artists have fun with ye,
like the thing that I try to do the most,
and I work with a lot of voice actors in
the day job as well, is like once somebody gets
something to then put their brushstroke on, be free.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
And so once an audiobook narrator has been chosen, I'm
out of the process as far as I'm concerned. Pronounce
the names however you think they sound.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Bade, definitely.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Definite. Second by I'm back. Desiree is brilliant and I
have listened to it and it's all fantastic.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
And a lot of audiobook narrators bring their own flavor
to the characters. They bring their own accents, and it's like,
if you get the right audiobook narrator, just let them
run free. Just cut them loose and let them go.
They're their own artists, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Absolutely. All right, guys, we've got just under ten minutes left,
which is flying by, So we're going to ask us
staple questions. But if you do have questions, please send
them in now and we'll try and ask them. But Chris,
do you want to start us off with us staple questions?

Speaker 2 (48:59):
So one of the staple questions that we have is
if you could take any character from fiction and make
that character your own, which character would you choose them?
What would you do with them?

Speaker 3 (49:07):
I feel like it's cheating to say Dracula because he's
you know, public domain and I've done that, but like
I want, I want, I want him to just be mine,
like just give me, gimme. Yeah, I'm gonna have to
stick with Dracula. He's just he's just too good. He's
just too good, and he's just too much fun. Oh

(49:30):
that's that's so flattered, Thank you, Noel.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, I mean, why not stick with him?

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Phantom of the Opera is another one that I would
steal and run away with. I think he is most
people's introduction to villain romance, even though he's just more
angsty romance than he is villain romance. But he's most
people's like, you know, starter for that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was going to say with that,
do you know what you write about when you're writing, like,
not just this book, but lots of like all you're writing.
We've asked that a few times. It's quite a tricky
question in terms of, like, you know, you've obviously got
this appeal in a very niche area of writing, So

(50:20):
is there something under the surface that you, on reflection
of a few books, you think, oh, I'm actually writing about.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
This There are times that I'm including themes on purpose.
Other times there are themes that I look back and
I go, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, that is an allegory
for this that I completely utterly missed. Other times, what
I tend to include accidentally a lot is inclusion for disabilities,

(50:50):
both myself, because I have disabilities and I have friends
who are disabled. I tend to include them just by
default because I'm like, well, everybody's broken, right, So I'm
just like, and this person has this problem because we
all are broken, and everyone's like, you're so inclusive, and
I'm like, I am just I just take it for

(51:11):
granted that a lot of people don't have random physical
ailments that clog their day up. So that is something
that I just tend to de facto include. But I
don't generally go in trying to make a statement because
I find then I'm trying too hard. I let the

(51:32):
statements be made, and I let people draw those conclusions
where they may.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Nice, Okay. If you could take the ending of anything
in the world of fiction, be a TV show, a movie,
or a book, and change the ending, are you going
to change your why?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Okay, I'm gonna have to go with law of recency.
We just rewatched, for researcher's sake, the entire Deadwood series
on HBO. I don't know if you're a fan. I
got really upset because the ending of Deadwood season three
was kind of crappy because they got canceled unexpectedly, and
then they got a chance to do a movie, and

(52:12):
then they did the whole movie, which was basically just
the ending of season three again, because when you watched
them back to back and because there was like a
decade in between them, and so most people were like, Yay,
it's been a decade, we get to see our favorite
characters again. They didn't. Most people watching it probably didn't
realize that they just redid all of the plot points

(52:33):
from the end of season three again in the movie
and then didn't resolve anything that they didn't resolve in
season three. So it just redid the whole problems over again.
And I was like, what what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Why? Why?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, it was a giant recap that went nowhere, and
then all they succeeded was kill one character, and I
was like, why, why? Why did we just say And
it was nice to see all the characters aged that's nice, thank.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
You, And he says she was so upset about that
as well.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Yeah, And I was just like, wait a minute, So
this character is still in this situation. This character is
still in this situation. They've rebuilt, they've reset this, they've
reset that, and now this guy's dead. Great, awesome, Why
do we just watch this for an hour and a half.
So I would take that and, you know, maybe write
some plot that happened anything, maybe because the characters in

(53:27):
that show were so good. Talk about a show that
existed on vibes only and amazing characters. Nothing happens for
that last season, amazing show, zero plot.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Action, excellent. All right, we got a couple of questions
in there. We'll ask those quickly. If you could take
a righteous retreat anywhere, where would it be?

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Honestly? I was recently in England and it's it's just
I loved London. I would probably go back to London
for a writer's retreat. I think there's so many cool
places to go, cool old things to see, great food.
I would go back to London for a writer's retreat.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
I think there's just stuff that's like food for thought.
Because I'm a people watcher. Yeah, and I'm not like
a go on a retreat on like a distant shore
where there's no people. I may I need to go
see things, get input and then go right kind of person.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah, thanks the question, Nan, Yeah she said Edinburgh is
also awesome. Oh yeah, for similar reasons. And Noel, thank you.
She says. If you could write in any of the genre,
what would it be? An added not cowboy romance?

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Oh no, well, you're gonna be so sad. Although I
think that series is going to be self published, so
I think I think you're safe there. So I think
I'm going to hell. But I think it's going to
be a sneaky Western, so I think you're going to
be safe. I don't know what a sneaky Western is,
but it's one that creeps up on you. If I

(55:05):
could write in any other genre, I feel like sci
fi is cheating because that is my day job. You
know what I think I wish I could do like
straight up like murder mysteries, like straight up good murder
mysteries like Knives out style, really good who Done. It's

(55:29):
like those are so much fun and I love that
kind of stuff. I just I just don't think I
got it in me, But that would be a lot
of fun to write. It's just also not my genre,
and it's also probably a very crowded genre. I wouldn't
know where to start, but that that.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Maybe putting your own spin on it in terms of
having the same sort of context of like knives Out,
but you know, adding the monster element in there and
having you know, I'm thinking, think, can Mary Shelley went
to retreat that type of style? Oh yeah, it's a
month thrown in might work quite nicely.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
That would be fun. The ghost story that I told
the slappening, that's the name that I called the thing
that happened with the guy who I actually took the
slap out of that story. I went back and edited
the series because I have no problem triggering people, but
I want to make it on purpose and I didn't
mean to, so I went back and took that out.
So I call that the slappening that actually kind of

(56:31):
was a mystery because it was like she was trying
to uncover what was going on, and I had a
lot of fun with that. So I'm doing more mystery
elements in a story I think would be kind of fun,
but they're hard to write because you have to know
the answer. It has to be a legit mystery that
you are drip feeding to the audience. So they have

(56:56):
to be solvable mysteries, but you have to be feeding
them to the audience in such a way that like,
they can't solve it until the end, but they could
have solved it if they were smart enough, which means
that some people will solve it immediately, and some people
will get to the ending and be like, I still
don't get it, and so there's like a bell curve
of people that like, that's why mysteries are hard. It's

(57:18):
like designing an escape room. It's like some people will
never get it and some people will get it in
seven seconds. So it's like, how do you design? Sorry,
the game designer in me is coming out.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah, so we might have a couple more questions. But
before we go, where can people stalk you on all
social media? Where can they buy your books and things
like that?

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah? So, I you can find me on obviously on
Amazon if you just search for Katherine and Kingsley. You
can find me at Katherine Kingsley dot com. You can
find me at Instagram at slash Katherine and Kingsley. I
have a discord where I'm there all time, and so
you can find that link on my website and so

(58:03):
if you want to come ask me weird questions, you
can come do that at any point. I'm always there. Yeah,
so hit me up on my website that has all
of my socials in a contact form. Yeah. So by
my book. Okay, thanks.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
In the Shadows of Discord all day and night.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Yes, And obviously we mentioned briefly Second Sky, so I'm
just going to say it again. Well, if you had
to recommend an author from Second Sky that your readership
might enjoy, who would you recommend them?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Why?

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Uh? The author who wrote Phantasma, Kaylie Smith. Her book
is fantastic And I'm sure most of the people who
are going to pick up my stuff are going to
pick up their stuff. So her book is fantastic. It's
about a necromancer basically in the ghost that are like.
It's it's fantastic, and it's very very much in the
same paranormal vibe, and it's it's just taken off. It's

(59:04):
a New York Times bestseller, so again it's gonna lap
me many times over. So again it will be a
reverse feed. But that stuff is just is just always up.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
A good recommendation. Yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Yeah. What I'd like to say then, finally before we
do wrap this up, is massive congratulations to you from
this release today. And like a lot of people do
they breeze through you know, they wont book three and
they haven't celebrated. Have you celebrated this book?

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Not yet. We had free sushi yesterday. It is also,
uh Saturday is my tenth wedding anniversary with my husband,
so we're going to pseudo We're going to celebrate that
tomorrow night, so it'll be like a joint celebration.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
But yeah, yeah, so happy anniversary and congratulations on your release. Yeah,
do enjoy and celebrate the little milestones, everybody, not little.
This is a big milestone. But yeah, I'm to I
know you're working on book three. When can your readers
expect book two?

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Book two I believe launches in January. It's already up
for pre order, so I think the date will be
up there now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
So yeah, So if you're new to the Catherine Today
and you want to check this series out, book one,
go buy it today, help the release the launch and
pre order Book two already do that. Thank you, and again,
thank you everyone in the chat for your comments and
your questions. But okay, that's not nice.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Oh that's they've lapped the house.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
I have I have been watching them behind your head.
It's been great.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Yeah, ize.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
At all, it's been fantastic, and yeah, thank you comments.
Actually at this question, it's been bugging me, Chris, but
we've got to ask it. It's the it's the looking
back question, and you're the expert of that question, Chris,
So can you ask that one before we finish up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, so I'll just reiterate some of the things that
people have said. A great interview, really sounds really interesting.
Congratulations on the release. Happy anniversary Fantasma is excellent. Spoiler
alert from Noel there as well. Lots of congratulations and yeah,
we're going to bring it back to a bit of
a morbid element, which is you're on your deathbed, you're

(01:01:22):
looking back at your writing career. What would you be
happy with? What is success to you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
I'm waiting for the guy who's slowly it's like it's
like he's started over there and he's slowly making his
way that way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
What's interestingly is they left ten minutes ago.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
I used to be a tour guide. Don't get me started.
I could go on about the Winchester Mystery House San
Jose and I didn't even work there. So if you
asked me when I started publishing in twenty nineteen, success
looked like and you showed me a picture of now

(01:02:04):
it would be success. If you asked me, now, am
I successful? I would go Eh. That's the thing that's tricky,
isn't it is? Because success always feels relative, and I
think I have a I have a critical case of
like like Endy's my sin right, Like I'm always looking

(01:02:26):
at somebody else and I was comparing myself to somebody
else's success, and I don't feel successful, even though I
know authors would look at me and go, I wish
I was successful as cat. And I look at other
people and I go, oh, look at how well they're
book sold and how many reviews they have and how
well that did I wish I had that? And it's all.

(01:02:50):
It's all. Sometimes it just comes down to luck, and
it just comes down to the day your book launched,
and did it get marketed right on that right day?
And did it were the did the stars aligne and
did someone post your thing on TikTok randomly, like my
first book that went viral went viral because some random
lady in Malaysia did some dub over video and then

(01:03:12):
it went to eighteen on TikTok. And now because of that,
I have a job working in video games, writing for
a living. Like it was just chance. It was just
chance that did it. And it's like it's like you
spend your entire life building lightning rods for success, and
every time you write a book, you're building a lightning rod,

(01:03:33):
and so I feel successful because I haven't given up
building lightning rods yet, and the I'm getting better at
building those lightning rounds, so I can understand the fact that,
like I'm comparing myself to other people. So that's why
I don't necessarily feel as successful as I feel like

(01:03:54):
I should. I think, though, the fact that over the
past couple of years I've been able to become a
full time writer in my day job and also continue
to write novels is something that I never dreamed I
would be able to do. And I don't know if

(01:04:18):
you could call that anything but success, even if it
isn't even if it isn't to the degree that I'm like, yes,
I have a Netflix special, you know what I mean?
Like whatever, everything is relative.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, brilliant. No, it's a very profound response. And we've
never had the sort of lightning rod scenario, but I
definitely agree with that in terms of, you know, you're
putting them out there, each one. You never know what
the longevity is going to be with those lightning rods.
So yeah, keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Brilliant Again, thank you everybody for tuning in. Again, if
you can hit the like button, leave a comment and subscribe,
other like minded people will find the show that they'll
suppor us, they'll support our authors, and that will help
grow the community. So please, can you do that? We
would much appreciate that. But all we can say is, Catherine,

(01:05:09):
you've been absolutely wonderful, brilliant conversation. The fact that you
said you're a tour guide and the video games aspect.
I'm sure there's another conversation in there, especially Halloween creeping up.
We can get you back on, I'm sure. But thank
you so much. You've being a wonderful guest. I love
your story, I love what you're doing, so all the
best for me. Thank you, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, thank you guys, and don't forget to join us
tomorrow because we have another live show with Adell Parks
and yeah, we'd love to see your faces again before
the weekend is finished. So yeah, enjoy Friday.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
Thank you everybody,

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