The Founders Show #471

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Episode Transcript

(00:07):
Bite holes and politicians addressed to digitdators and magicians choose to see the money,
then you don't. There's nothing tofeel the holes while then filling their
pockets, bide holes, the politiciansbouncing down the route. Everybody'suition to no

(00:30):
moment, corruption and dysfunction's gonna takedivinetervent shun, and God bless all out
there. You are now listening tothe founders. So the voice of the
founding fathers, your founding fathers,coming to you deep within the bowels of
those mystic and cryptic alligator swamps ofthe Big Easy, that old Crescent City,

(00:54):
New Orleans, Louisiana. And highup on top of that old Liberty
Cypress tree way on the Eagles Branch, this is none other than you have
Spenary Bah bah other Republic Japlain highmcgenry, who Christopher Tidmore, European reporter,
resident radical moderate and associate editor ofthe Louisiana Weekly newspaper at Louisiana Weekly
dot net. And I'm while I'min studio here in Historic Magazine Street in

(01:18):
New Orleans. Mister mckenry is inthe Windy City a little further to the
north. How is the view upthere in Chicago High mckenry Well, Christopher,
It's it's amazing. You know,this is an amazing city. I've
been up here many times. Myfirst actually, my first trip up here
was for a sales trip when Iwas a young, young college kid and
I was getting into commercial sales industrialcleaning products and whatnot, and that was

(01:44):
my first time. I was likejust amazed. Then how long it took
us to get into Chicago. Andwe drove for average just trying to get
into the city and suburb up thesuburb, up the suburb. When you
fly out of here, you thinkyou're never going to lose the lights of
the city. This place is huge. We don't understand big in New Orleans
like they have it up here.I mean, it's just huge, hours

(02:06):
and hours and can never and canstill be in the same greater Chicago area.
I've probably been to Chicago thirty seventimes easily. I have never driven
into it. I've flown into it, and I've taken trains from New Orleans
to and from don flights and everythingelse. And but one thing it's always
interesting to me about Chicago is thefact that it's it's somebody who spent a

(02:30):
lot of time in New York growingup. While the two cities arrival each
other, you know Chicago as callsits second city, the fact of the
matter is attitudinally they're very very differentplaces. Chicago is very much a mid
Western town that has become a massivecity. It has a different feel to
it. My father has always putthis out here. He says he can't

(02:51):
stay in New York, even thoughhe would have to go there monthly when
he worked for the big insurance underwriterMarsha mclinnon, he said, and he
hates being there even for a whereashe's spent a week in Chicago and been
perfectly happy and just the great city. It's the architecture there is magnificent,
from from you know, one hundredand fifty years ago, nineteenth century UM,

(03:14):
and then of course the modern architecture, the Trump Towers. I had
no idea how big that thing.That's probably one of the largest hotel anywhere
building the edge of the World's probablyexaggerating, but it's humongas it takes up
two city blocks. Well, andit's right it's right on the curve of
the Chicago River with the canal theriver right. Yeah, Well, if
you what's interesting is right next toTrump Tower, you'll see kind of a

(03:36):
concrete looking building and it used tobe the building where the Chicago Sun Times
was was was printed and it hadno windows, and before that it was
actually one of the big places todo fabrics and because you couldn't have lights,
so there was there were no windows, and they started to put in
windows. It had this exquisite viewand then the Trump Tower was built right
in front of it, so theyhave a view of it, but in

(03:59):
the big when Trump built that WhenTrump built that tower, and this was
originally it was started before September eleventh, two thousand and one, and he
wanted to make it the tallest buildingin the world. And then well the
flights flew into the World Trade Centerand he suddenly decided very quietly not to
make it the tallest tower in theworld because really previously Chicago had had the

(04:20):
tallest building in the world what wasyeah, now called the Aon Tower because
they on insurances in it. Butyeah, but either reason you're in Chicago
is not pleasure or things. You'reactually there at a conference, right,
I'm here for a Bible conference thatwe've come to you every year for years
now. What's it's called the GraceConference. It's held by Quentino Bible Baptist

(04:43):
Church, a very large church inthe Northwest suburbs. That's a big you
know, that's a hot spot togo to if you're gonna if you want
a home in Chicago, and it'sa beautiful, beautiful area. And the
focus is on the biblical concept ofGod's love manifestation through the Biblical word called
grace. And the word grace justplaining simply means gift. And what's God

(05:05):
gives. Because God's a lover,He's a giver, and He's given us
himself, He's given us heaven,He's given us the full payment for our
sins. God's all about given andso this conference is about that and it's
just absolutely wonderful. The theology here, I guess you could call it evangelical
theology, and it's all the speakersare renowned in their various fields. It's

(05:31):
like trying to drink water from afire hydrant. It's just an overwhelming amount
of information that you get here andsay, you really have to go home
and get the recordings of it alland go over it again, and I
wanted to say this. I've beganmy first serious time in Chicago in the
mid eighties with the military when Istarted off with the twelfth Special Forces Group

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and their group headquarters was right ArlingtonHeights, right outside of Chicago, that
I first really got to know Chicago. I'll share a lot doing those about
three year period year and I hopewhile you're there you take one of the
architecture boat tours, maybe make itout to Navy Pier. It's just really
incredible. I've been there many times. Yeah, that's it. It's a

(06:15):
great story. But you know,it's interesting the conference you're at because the
idea of conferences, religious conference.I've been to a lot of them,
not as many as you have,but you know, quite a few over
the years, and enough to seeI like to see, you know,
as Bill Britt used to say,you know, I don't judge, but
I'm a food fruit inspector, soI could see which ones had good fruit
and bad fruit. And the ideaof religious conferences have been in the news

(06:36):
quite a bit lately. There wasa new documentary that came out Amazon Prime
about the Dogger family. It wasIt's called Shiny happy people. Yeah,
yeah, and which I just camefrom a seminar on that. Okay,
and I'm curious and I'm glad letme, let me, let me tell
you because I actually watched all fourhours of it. Wow, And I
didn't intend to. But for thosethat don't know, I haven't advertised this.

(07:00):
My dad's been in the hospital agreat deal. And when you're sitting
in a hospital room, you don'treally your mental capacity is about there for
doing something totally mindless or watching stupiddocumentaries. And I kind of like the
Dugger early on the Dugger television shows. I kind of found it fascinating.
And what the interesting thing about thatdocumentary, hear me out high because I'm

(07:21):
gonna give you plenty of time tocomment on it. But it's been in
the news so much about it wasthat I didn't come to this document I
didn't know this was about the documentarydocumentaries only tertiarily about the Duggers. They're
sort of the theme of the documentary. The documentary is actually about by a
guy by the name of Bill Gouthard. I know him very well, and

(07:42):
I want to ask I want totalk about this a little bit because I've
got familiar with Bill Gouthard, yearsbefore I ever heard of the Duggers or
anything like that. And no,I mean, let me let me give
you my little background on this.So if just and it don't interrupt when
I'm saying beyond, you know,may comments a plenty of time to comment,
but this is this, This documentaryhas been all over the news,

(08:03):
and I'm curious about the action atthis conference. Is well. For those
that don't know, the Dugger familywere part of a syndicate of associated faith
really of churches, but it's agroup called the Institute of Basic Life Principles.
It was founded by God named calledBill Gothard was in Chicago. That's

(08:24):
He's why I'm bringing this up.It's it's a little further to the north
anyway. Um so um. Ispent and I watched the four hours of
the demok of it, and theygot some things that were very right,
some things that were very wrong,some things that were very confusing. If
you watch the documentary and it's kindof interesting, it's interesting. It has
a perspective and some of the perspectiveson it, I just I knew for

(08:48):
a fact we're wrong, and itcontradicted itself at one point on a very
basic point, it talked about homeschoolingand the fact that Bill Gothard created this
homeschool network is huge. Yeah,but it talked about the negatives what happened
in the most but it also taughtit said, but they didn't encourage anybody
to go to college and all this, And then that's in the first hour.
In the fourth hour, they starttalking about something called the Joshua Project,

(09:11):
where the best and brightest of thehomeschool movement go to Patrick Henry University
or beyond or going to Harvard Lawand are becoming clerks for Supreme Court justices
and members of Congress. Madison Cawthorneis probably the most famous of the ones
to come out of this group.And so, having as someone who has
known quite a few homeschoolers over theyears, and here's one of the things
that I found about the homeschool communitiesin general, including those that have used

(09:35):
BLIP, they actually were very academicallyoriented, which the documentary would say it
wasn't. The reason why I'm bringingup homeschoolers is because that's how I found
out about Bill Gothard. Going backin time a little bit in nineteen ninety
nine, two thousand thereabouts, somewherearound that time frame. And my dear
friends Christopher and Christine Screen, theirtwo daughters, were both homeschooled all the

(09:56):
way through high school. Both ofthem not only were top of their class
at Loyal for undergraduate, both gotgraduate degrees. Both are professional musicians.
Stephanie is one of the most renownedmusicians in New Orleans. Both of them
could speak four languages. They're incrediblyacademically, they were presidential scholars. The
whole works. They're incredibly academically.And so one of the things that happened

(10:18):
was that they invited me to FirstBaptist Church of Genots and Kenner and I
went to the basic seminar, andI heard Gothard, and I went to
one, I went to the wholeweek and and well, I'm going to
tell you, at the time,I had some things I really liked about
what he said, some things Iwas at the time a little ambivalent about.

(10:39):
I didn't really have a strong opinion, and some things I thought were
utter hokum, actually un Christian.One of the things that intrigued me about
Gothard was sort of his reaction againstanything that was contemporary, particularly music,
and his talk about where he kindof got on my case was when he

(11:00):
started talking about all forms of rockand roll are wrong because they're from West
African Satanic traditions, and they includedChristian rock and roll. And I've seen
how Christian rock and roll has broughtpeople to christ and at the and that
that was my first warning sign.But in other things he said about contemporaries
that there's there's some things that getinto the whole argument about the submission question,
but that's another question. But oneof the things that got me in

(11:24):
the whole things about Gothard was hewas talking about, you know, the
umbrellas of authority, and this getsinto a lot of this case. And
and I remember I and I thinkit's total nonsense. M And let me
explain why. At the time,and this is before I knew anything else,
Agnes, I remember going to dinnerwith Christopher's screen afterwards, and Christopher's

(11:46):
just so you know, the manwho invited me here was the lawyer for
the Board of Directors of Energy.He's been a professor at Loyola for the
last twenty five years. After heretired as as an attorney. He is
a walk in. Both of thescreen family, all of them are incredibly
geniuses. And so let me explainthe quality person I was talking. He's
he's a big he's a he knewBill gouthared very well. And you know,

(12:07):
he invited me. They actually paidfor my um that was like a
sixty dollars fee, as I rememberto come, they'd invite me anyway.
Well let me So I went tothat and I said, you know,
one of the essences of the ProtestantReformation. I said that what the way
Gouthard is saying is a hierarchical structuredthat you would find typically more under Catholicism

(12:30):
than Protestantism, much less Baptist Protestantism. And I said, this is this
the whole concept of what he's sayingactually has a problem. And this was
my initial reaction back in two thousandof the Priesthood of all Believers, the
the second tenant of Protestantism. Yes, and then I said, what he's
he's saying about. It's one thingto say a family, you know,

(12:52):
like a husband and wife, haveto be together. You can explain,
there's ways to explain it is,but basically under authorities and all these umbrellas
of authority in the protection. Isaid, honestly, it's not. It's
kind of undermines the idea of ourpersonal relationships with Jesus Christ, the ability
of us to go down. AndI started having and so I started over
the years because I'd see some ofthe positive things that were going on,

(13:13):
but obviously the negative incomes. TheDugger family, who are who were huge.
I mean, they weren't just supportersof his artists. They were on
the big fundraisers for what was calledThe bel the Bits Superlike And I knew
that when I was watching the show, and the show was the show it
was. If you know anything aboutmaking television, and I've been a television
producer and a documentary filmmaker, Idid documentary two years ago. The I

(13:37):
could see how much of that showwas fake. It was scripted. That
doesn't mean their family or their lovewas fake. The Dugglers, yeah,
I mean they would both be realityTV right and living their lives out in
the real world and nothing you know, and we now know that a lot
of it wasn't, but even evenbasic things were Jill Dugger, who's in

(13:58):
this documentary, would talk about thefact that you know, they would they
would talk to the camera and theywould say, oh, you have to
do that again. You have tobring on the tears. You have to
And a lot of it was itwas that what you were seeing on screen
was not exactly what was going onbehind the cameras. But then again,
you know what, the adventures ofOzzie and Harriet were essentially a scripted version

(14:20):
of a reality show. The Nelsonfamily is a real family. This was
This was Ozzie and Harriet Nelson wereactually married. A couple of these were
actually their kids. It was fantasycompared to the reality of what they really
were. The Duggers were no different. And I always took the Dugger family
from that tradition. And so whenthe things started going on, when you
found about about Josh Dugger's problems fromAshley Madison, so and so forth,

(14:41):
I wasn't shocked. I these twelveor twelve and a half years child pornography.
And but here's one of the thingsI got. I never agreed with
a lot of the this and that. For those of peeps the documentary we're
talking about HI and I are talkingabout highs in Chicago at a Bible conference,
not any thing, not this conference, a different one now we're talking.

(15:01):
But he just came out of thischurch. Yeah, literally exactly.
And that's why that's why I'm asking, because I know you just had the
seminar about this documentary Shiny Happy People. So what I found out about Gothard
was and what he was creating wasnot um. And as I watched over
the years, I sort of trackedit. What he was creating with these

(15:24):
with a lot of his training institutesand a lot of these kids, was
that while they were good stuff hewas doing and I'm not good. This
is where the documents as mostly hewas actually creating a cult of personality that
was beyond himself. He really was, and um. One of the things
that I didn't like about the documentarywas that the thought process that everyone who's
in an evangelito at church is anoccult and it's ridiculous. It didn't say

(15:48):
that, but it was. Itkind of gave that viewpoint. I do
think the idea that you should neverkiss your girlfriend before you were married,
I mean just I think some ofthe stuff that they take is a little
far. But I think being soseparated from the world I mean the whole
ideas of the Institute of Life principles. You heard what I said about about

(16:08):
rock and roll, which I've seenit essentially they were speaking when he was
speaking Gothard himself. One of thethings is is it wasn't amaging. You
can't preach that you should be marriedand have kids when you never got married.
It's one thing if you're married andyou and no one couldn't have kids,
you can't preach that. And inevitably, what is a single man who
has young women around. The manhad had himself many sexual scandals. Oh

(16:33):
yeah, the wife he was well, he I agree, and he had
thirty let's let's be specific. Thisis how the documentary ends. In the
fourth hour. He had thirty fourdesignated lawsuits, about eight of them alleging
direct rape. I mean, thiswas so much so that the Basic Life
Institute threw him out and eventually fellapart concerning that. You should hear my

(16:59):
person, Go ahead, go ahead, because this, this documentary Shiny Happy
People is on the one hand,outfitting that this guy had created a cult.
On the other hand, it's kindof painting evangelicals with one brush.
That's not fair and so I'm curiousto see what they've been talking about.
Since you're at this conference and youjust came from a liter a literal seminar
about this documentary. Go ahead,all right, let me explain, folks

(17:22):
out there. We are all fallen, we belonged to the fallen human race.
We're all human beings, and weall have sent everybody. I don't
care who you are. The greatestof all in the Bible had a lot
of sin, not Jesus, butthe rest of them, So we're sinners.
Jesus talked about that there would betears among the wheat, and he

(17:44):
defines the tears as the devil's seed. The wheat is a church the Christians,
he said there would be wolves andsheep's clothing, not sparing the flock.
And if you study churches or youcan see this repeated over and over
and over again, even to theeven Jesus had a wolf in sheep's clothe
and that was Judas is scary.So they've always been bad people around,
even in God's best plan, they'rebad people get into it. Well,

(18:10):
here's an example of bad people gettingin to God's work. And for and
for those that and for those thatare just joining us. We're talking about
this documentary shiny happy people, aboutthe Dougger family, but it's really about
this guy. Bill goth Hi mckenry, Christopher Titmore High is at a conference
in Chicago, not one of these, but where this subject of this documentary
has been going on and people aretalking about it. Go ahead with even

(18:32):
Tuckle leaders. You saw a pictureof like a twenty It's a lot of
huge family, like I don't know, twenty people or something, and they're
little kids, big kids are youknow, adults. They all are wearing
that happy face and smile, youknow, the yellow smiley face that we
see all the time, to makeit look like they're also happy, but
they're not. And it goes inbehind us show the real problems these people

(18:56):
have in this documentary. All right, this is my experiential Bill Gathering.
I've been following him for years.I went my first Bill Golf the Seminar
mid seventies with my wife's brother,my brother in law. I took him
to it. It was fantastic.It was all week long. It was
an avalanche of like trying to drinkwater but fire hyes of biblical teaching and
Bible, you know, just heavyBible teaching. I loved it, and

(19:22):
I went. I went to everykind of seminar or the guy did.
Although I didn't notice problems, Ijust didn't know how bad it was.
I have since found out he hita lot of it. That's why we
A lot of us didn't know aboutit. But there were things that started
to come out, and then Icouldn't tell us that just slander against the
man, people who were jealous ofthem. He became a super rock star

(19:44):
in the Evangelical church in the seventies, eighties, nineties and into this century.
But I noticed that his work starteddying out. I didn't know why,
but I noticed it's dying out.What happened? Where is it going?
Anyway? When I went went duringthe Golf War, I was given
convalescent leave from Fort Bragg, andI thought, I'm gonna go see So

(20:07):
I went drove over Chicago. It'sninety one, nine ninety one, and
I met Bill and I've never methim before. I spent the whole afternoon
talking with him. I had agreat time. He liked so much about
what I was telling him. Heasked me to give the sermon that night,
so I did. He has aSaturday night meeting with two hundred and
fifty of his full times to havepeople, and I was the featured speaker

(20:27):
and gave my talk to God andthe soldier, how God uses the military.
Of all the examples of professions inthe Bible, number one profession God
uses is a military profession because itdeals with obedience, following orders, discipline.
You know, brave, recourage allthat. It doesn't mean God's calling

(20:48):
us to be militant. It doesnot mean that at all spiritually, how
to fight the evil in the world. That's it, all right. So
when it was over with I broughta girlfriend with me, more more of
a friend than than a romantic thing. But we were good friends, great
beautiful guys. She'd been a minutenight, she was, but now she
was at a Bible church, andshe called the Booty Bible Church. And

(21:11):
she's a model, also a fulltime nurse and a model, a beautiful
girl. So she came with meand we're the best time. When it
was over with it, she disappearedand he disappeared. I couldn't find anither
one of him. He'd gotten herinto a room all by her side,
and when I later found him,she was like running from him, and
I wondered if she says he's thestrangest man. He was telling me all

(21:33):
kinds of weird stuff, and hekept telling me, look at my eyes,
look at my eyes. And soit's interesting. It's interesting you say
that because in the documentary, eachof the two of his victims are two
of the narrators who actually went towork for him and were essentially assaulted.
And she said, you know,it's it's like the snake in the Jungle

(21:56):
book, look into my eyes.And they used that exactly. It was
that he had that kind of hehad that kind of place on it,
and and it was this guy wasbasically vigins and that's what all I could
do with it. But you know, maybe he did. Maybe it's really
something more that I don't know aboutthis guy anyway, But that was it.

(22:18):
And I didn't have much money.I raised a homeless family in my
home. All of them went throughwent through the Bill Gothad home school method.
You know, I think his parents, their parents really like Bill Gothor.
Uh, nothing ever bad came ofit. They didn't never Fortunately,
they didn't get totally hooked on it. I know the problems that Bill Gothord.
He's basically created a type of cult. It was it's all about control,

(22:42):
I mean total control and um sothat and that's never healthy. That's
not God's plan for the church.Anyways, this guy went bad. To
say the least, he's got hisministry and all of his died. That's
falling apart. In fact, it'sit's it's literally declared bankruptcy. Um they're
still selling the home school for thosewho are joining us. Him. Mckenry

(23:03):
Christopher Timore were talking about this newdocumentary Shiny Happy People of the Dugger Family,
but it's really about Bill Gothard andthis Institute based life. It's a
fascinating documentary. And Chris, we'rehere in this church. I just finished
a workshop on this topic. Andwhen he was talking about the Dugger family,
he said, this is really notabout the Doggers. It's about It's
a documentary and Bill Gotthard. Itreally is. It should have been called.

(23:25):
But then again, nobody would havewatched a documentary saying Bill Gothard and
Basic Institute of Basic Life Principles.The real story, which is what it
is. The Duggers are the contextand Jill Dugger, I mean, one
of the things you find out aboutthe Doggers, for example, is that
the father stole all the money fromthe kids. I mean that never he

(23:45):
was making a million dollars a yearthat we know of, it hurned fifty
thousand was his base pay plus theresiduals and how works. And that even
after they signed kids, the kidsthey were over eighteen though, Jill Dugger
and Jesse Aduger when they're having theirown show and they ask, can we
get any of the money? Ifthey got nothing, not even minimal wage,
it was you find out a lotabout this family, about what's happened.

(24:08):
And this is one of the pointsI'm making. One of the things
I disliked about it was to basicallythe impression you get if you don't know
other parts of the story, andthey never say it directly. There's agenda
here, which is the agenda isif you're an evangelical Christian, you've got
to be a nutcase. Because theydidn't say if you're a Christian, mind

(24:30):
you, they said if you're ifyou're an evangelical, we're always the number
one target when they're going off tothe evangel Christians are number one target.
They make two very real criticisms andmore than two. Well no, but
I'm not just about they make alot about Bill author, but I mean
they make two criticisms about a perspectivein the evangelical church. They have a

(24:52):
certain degree of this. We gottatake a break in a second high I
gotta take it. But for thosewho showing us, we talked about this
documentary Shiny Happy People with the graThe two criticisms, the first one they
make is that, um, wellthere's three. The first one is that
they start talking about in the homeschooluh curriculum, that they had pictures of

(25:14):
women and you're not supposed to haveeye traps, and they're they're slut shaming
the idea of should you dress modestlyto come through? I mean, there's
a lot of ways approach it.But the two real points that of criticism
that had a point they said,you know, I was constantly afraid of
hell if I thought the wrong way, I thought the wrong and that was
interesting at the conference you're at.The idea of grace is that if you're

(25:34):
a true Christian, you while youalways try to do better, you don't
feel guilt or you should not feelguilt. Everybody feels guilt, but you
should not. That God has reallyhas forgiven you you should and that this
is an entire guilt based that's howyou know it's cult and it's guilt made
for power for power. And thatwas one of the main problems because it

(25:56):
said I was so afraid of everythingI felt liberated. Well, God,
you're right, you were a prisoner. You're a psychological prisoner. If you're
what cults to us. Yeah,they've break you down. And one way
it's a great way to do that. It's with guilt. And according to
the Bible, we're enough to tolerateguilt because we our sins have been paid
for. We are free from theslave market of sin. Guilt has no

(26:17):
place in our lives. For aChristian who's really walking with the Lord,
you're gonna sin, believe me.Look at the apostle Paul. All of
a sudden he did, and nowhe owned and grown over his sins.
But he would get right with Godabout it. He was guilt free because
our sins are paid for. BillGothor has a way of doing this where
you'll you'll live in like a lifetimestate of guilt and guess what then he

(26:38):
controlled you and that that was thatwas how this was a cult. And
this is where the fair, thisis where a criticism and real quickly.
But I've also but I've also seenthat. I've seen a lot of the
risers, not you not know,but I've seen a lot of evangelical ministers
so safe you help, I've seenthem too, and they're like real quick.
People wouldn't really get into this.The name of the book is a

(26:59):
matter of base principles. It's Billgoth and the Christian Life. The authors
are Don Vino, Joy Vino andRon Hensel, two Frenchmen. Right there.
The guy who just talked to whattaught the workshop was Don Vino.
There's also a forward by Ron Rhodes. It's about a foreigner page book.
It's exhausted and believe me, theyspent they spent I don't know how many

(27:23):
thousands of hours, hundreds of hourswere searching this guy and also going to
the Bible to compare his teachings withoutthe Bible says they got forty biblical scholars
were searching this and then they wentand spent hours. I'm talking about like
two hours every week with Bill Gothorfor weeks trying to talk some sense into

(27:45):
the guy. They wanted to seethe man come clean and get right and
have a good ministry. But henever did, and then he ended up
and all kinds of crazy. Hewas suing people when he's teaching you can,
so he was suing the christ we'retrying to help. Well, I
mean, when the Bible says you'renot to sue so Christians in a quart
a lot, you know. Uh. And he was he actually his his

(28:07):
actual is his ultimate when um,when they finally forced him out of his
ministry and he'd already covered for hisBrotherhoo had done a couple of rapes.
Was that the others go on?But but he was he was actually suing
his victims eighteen thousand dollars each totry to get him a shut up.
I mean it was. It wasbad. The judge turned on him.
Yeah, he's the one who wentdown and saying the courts yeah, and

(28:27):
and and he is now living alife of solitude. He'd never married.
He should have married, he neverdid. And um, because we know
he had the desire for marriage.So if you had that's the chess boss.
If you meet a woman, thenyou have to get away. Yeah,
well, I mean they have thesexual desire for a woman, then
it's time to get away. It'sthat clear. That's simple. That's that

(28:48):
simple. You know. It's Imean, I rarely like these terms,
but Saint Paul's read it's better thanmarry than burn, um exactly. But
it's that's the that's the other thing. Um. Any great, any great
teacher of the word will tell youthat hell is the separation of all God's
love. It is separation from it. And and basically you had kids running

(29:11):
around thinking I'm going to be apit of fire, I'm gonna be not
a really understanding that this is something. It could be worse than what you're
conceiving, but it's not. Thissomething where you're God will always welcome you
in, no matter how much itis. And that's the ultimate lesson I
think of this documentary. I didsome good things. It really reminded us.
And this is the ultimate last thing. Ultimately, God calls us not

(29:33):
to be out of the world,but to be in the world. That
doesn't mean we engage in every problemthat exists. You know, we don't.
We don't take on every vice.But it means that we're not meant
to separate ourselves and create a separatesociety somewhere right, which is what essentially
Gothard was doing with these families.You couldn't associate, you couldn't you could
never you could never roadge a Disneymovie because Disney was Satanic. I mean,

(29:56):
it was just it was kind ofridiculous. I mean, it was
just it's crazy. The Bible saysto be a Jew to the Jew,
a Greek to the Greek, weekto the week, all things to all
people. That by all means,you might say, some Christopher, you
cannot be a Greek to the Greekunto you know what the Greeks are doing
exactly what. You gotta go totheir movies, you gotta learn about them,
you gotta expose yourself. We're tobe the way I've heard it summarized,

(30:18):
it is the greatest theological summary I'veever heard. Were to be in
the world, but not of theworld. But we're in it, and
we're part of it, and weshould bet in a way that brings gore
to God and blesses the people aroundus them, but blesses them and trials
to bring them to God's love admissionof the church. And so folks,
we gotta take a break wayever dohighs. At this Grace conference, we'll

(30:41):
hear a little bit more about it, but let's talk a little politics when
we come back. But this ifthe documenting Shiny Happy People. It's currently
on Prime Amazon Prime. And asleng ag, you acknowledge that it kind
of makes the implication that all evangelicalsof this this is a cult that was
a very subgroup. But at thesame time it also gives us the warning

(31:02):
that no matter even if somebody sayssomething that you agree with, it seems
like on the surface they've got allthe stuff, be careful, never give
up your critical reasoning, because that'sthe point the essence. Somebody asked me
a question. They said, whatare you? And I said, I
am attitudeinly a Catholic who who wasmugged by the intellectual teachings of Martin Luther.

(31:22):
And what do they say? Whatdoes that mean? It seems like
a contradiction. It says, I'msomebody who believes in the traditions and the
faith and the richness of the Church, but I can't get past the little
statement that I am required by Godto think and have a personal relationship with
Him. And if you trust aminister that says I am your umbrella of
authority, trust me in all things, You're just you're literally trusting in a

(31:48):
fantasy at best and frankly something thatcould be itself somewhat sasanic at worst.
Yeah, very dangerous. All right, we're gonna be back after these important
message We'll do a little bit oflocal politics. It's coming on right up
these important messages. Stay tuned,but more him Henry Christoper tipmar of the
Founder Show right after this. Hey, folks, this is Chaplinhei mckenry,

(32:13):
and I'm here to tell you aboutour ministry, LAMB Ministries. We're an
inter city ministry with an inner cityformula and focus for inner city folks.
Please go to our website lamb no LA dot com lamnola dot com and
check us out. We work withvery, very challenging situations, the inner
city, inner city kids, theurban poor, lots of tragedy, lots

(32:37):
of challenges. We need all thehelp we can get. So if you're
interested in this type of work,please contact us and let us know what
you like to do. We needprayer warriors, we need financial support,
and we need volunteers again. Youcan go to our website LAMB n O
LA dot com or just call meChaplin Hi mckenry at area code five zero

(32:58):
four seven two three nine three sixnine, and thank you so very very
much. Folks. We always tellyou to give the gifts of flowers by
going to Villarius Florists at one eighthundred Villery or checking out one of their
locations on the South Shore of theNorth Shore. But what we've never told
you to do, you should doright now. If you love candles,
they Villarius Florist is taken upon themselvesto have the ones of the widest selection

(33:22):
of handmade candles in the entire regionat their location on Highway one nineteen Covington
and a Martin Burman right off Veteransright near the Orleans Parish line. It
is incredible cornucopia of specialty candles forthose who want the scents and those who
want the special experience. Check themout, go into their locations. Wonderful
also carry out Rose Deal special offerif you tell them you heard it on

(33:45):
the Founder Show. But go checkout their candles and their gift basket.
It's there Incredible Highway one nineteen Covingtonor on right off Martin Burman on Veterans
RLF Duran's Boulevard right near the OlageParish Line. Telephone number for more information
one eight hundred Villara Villaris floorst dotcom on the web. And welcome back

(34:08):
to the Founders Show. Folks.Remember you can always hear High mckenry and
Christopher Tidmore every Sunday from eight tonine am and ninety nine five w r
n O every Monday, Wednesday andFriday from eight to nine am on WSLA
ninety three point nine FM fifteen sixtyam twenty four seven three sixty five at
the Foundershow dot com or at theiHeartMedia app. In fact, that's what

(34:28):
we encourage people to do. Downloadthe iHeartMedia app. Type in the Founder
Show press follow you'll be able toget high at my shows, all every
updated every week, straight to yourphone. And of course we love the
fact that we're also on Rattle StakeRadio way out in the high desert of
Arizona as well with Harry Hoiler inthe Gang as always here in the program
and Christopher Tidmore and jacquelinheih mcginry andI want you know christoh and I was

(34:52):
working so very hard to bring youthe truth, the whole truth, and
another but the truth. So helpus God, and Christopher, I know
you've got some good political news.Well, i'll say good interesting. We
may not like what we hear,but it's still going to be interesting.
Well, and I think what's goingon is right now the governor is trying
to decide. For those that haven'tbeen following sort of Louisiana news, a

(35:14):
couple of things have been going on. The governor signed a lot of bills
into law, including an extension ofthe movie tax credits, the five hundred
dollar credit to secure Gotten Home,a whole bunch of operational things that were
over one hundred and forty seven billsthat had nothing to do with finance in
this fiscal only session. I lovehow we call fiscal only, except everybody
can file four or five bills themselves. But the budget situation remains something that

(35:37):
the governor is completely perturbed about,particularly a cut of one hundred million dollars.
And we kind of talked about thislast week. One of the things
the governor has pledged to veto,but as of the time we're recording this
program has not is they don't saygay bills. There are actually three bills
no transgender medical treatments under the ageof eighteen. Gender you cannot basically gender

(36:01):
titles and cannot be used in schools. It's essentially a variation on the Florida
Bill and a couple of lgb Qbills that are through. He's vowed to
veto all of them. The challengeis what happens if that is over If
the legislature votes to have an overridesession requires a majority of each house.

(36:22):
It's very likely because frankly, bothhouses voted two thirds majority to pass it.
It was a party line vote.Republicans sold two thirds of the seats
in both houses. However, thegovernor has the power at that point.
He has the power to do thisregardless, but he has the power of
that point to say, Okay,I'm calling a special session, and the

(36:42):
governor then can determine what the specialsession is, and the special session would
be the hundred million dollars in healthcuts. One hundred million dollars in health
cuts that were cut will cost thestate. According to the latest estimates seven
hundred million dollars. That's real moneyin a state where the entire budget thirty
billion. And the reason is wepay ten percent of medical costs and the

(37:05):
government and the federal government tends topay ninety percent when it comes to Medicare
and when it comes to Medicaid andthe surrounded areas. So he's playing a
game at chicken right now with legislature, which is, if I veto these
bills, you can do nothing.But if you do this, I will
call a special session and I willreverse these charges and I'll get more spending
than you want. However, ifyou veto it and you don't do it,

(37:29):
make it an issue this fall JeffLandry becomes governor, you can pass
these things again. You don't haveto deal with me. It's sort of
one of those. It's a Mexicanstandoff going on in Baton Rouge where social
conservatism meets fiscal spending. Frankly,and this is politically and correct. Well,
I'm sure John Bell Edwards doesn't personallylike these bills. He is,

(37:49):
I don't think he cares all thatmuch. I think he cares a lot
about cuts and healthcare funding, becausewhat is his legacy high. He's the
man who expanded Medicaid. He's theman who got eighty nine percent of Louisianians
with health insurance. So cutting thatis kind of a personal thing to the
guy who actually instituted it. Youcan see when this comes down. Well
yeah, so anyway, a lotof that is going on in Baton Rouge

(38:15):
is everything, you know, wekeep talking about it. The funny thing
I'm finding about is I'm seeing signsgo up for the governor's race. Jeff
Landry's got his signs up. JohnSchroeder's got his signs up, Sharon Hewett's
got his signs. Even Richard Nelsonfrom Mandeville's got his signs up. I
haven't seen any Sean Wilson signs.I'm charl they're coming as the loan Democrat.
But frankly, he doesn't have toput up any signs. He's going

(38:35):
to get into run off. Thequestion is what happens in a r off.
But what I'm not seeing is anyreal organization on the down tickets.
I'm not seeing any real signs ofwe have an open insurance commissioner's race where
Tim Temple is who got forty sevenpercent of the vote is spending nine million
dollars again to run for it.We are not seeing a Secretary of States

(38:58):
race. I wrote a column,and one of the things I wrote about
it's in Louisiana Weekly this week,was about the fact we brought this up
before Clay Scheck Sniner, the Speakerof the House. He's being reviled on
conservative talk radio. Our buddy MongerFawn has basically made his personal mission in
life to make sure Clay check Snydernever become Secretary of State because of this
budget deal and the way the cutsoccurred on the people who voted against it,

(39:25):
and because of all that high he'syou know, I basically said the
column. I said, if you'reKlai Schecksniner, you want to get better
with fiscal conservatives, you probably shoulddo what Susie Tarrell did when she ran
for Elections Commissioner back in two thousand, which is simply say, look,
I'm gonna if I run for thisoffice, I'm gonna abolish it. I'm
gonna take all its functions, andi'm gonna merge him into the Lieutenant governor's

(39:45):
office. It's like Susie Tarrell tookElections Department emerged him in the Secretary of
State. And the reason for allof that is, you've got a problem
where fiscal conservatives hate you and theyare going to be gunning for you.
And it doesn't matter if you've gotnine hundred thousand dollars to run for secretary
of State. Mike Francis, theformer CEO of Francis Drilling Fluids, has
about nine million that he could dofor an office nobody can raise money for.

(40:07):
So it's one of those downsides thatit's happening in these races I'm watching.
I'm wanting most of the Louisiana racistIt's amazing for such so many competitive
races that frankly, are so belowthe radar right now, and I think
it's because nobody knows what the finaldynamics of any of these races will be.

(40:28):
Nobody knows, For example, JohnShorder keep saying he's running governor.
What if he decides to run fortreasure again his parent post. Nobody really
knows what's going to happen. Yourthoughts high Christopher. It sounds like you've
heard of a word salad. Soundslike this is a political salad. That's
true. Up in the air andbeing tossed around and around around. However

(40:49):
may followed, I don't know.It's very That's one of the things I
wish were true. And this isa thing. It is truly insane that
qualifying this year it's between August eighthand tenth. And supposedly, you know
that that's because we have a primaryelection in the second week of October.

(41:10):
Here's the problem, because we haveearly voting over two weeks out, you
know, two and a half weeksout. Basically, you only get a
final knowledge of who the candidates areroughly less than two months from the election,
the first time a person cast aballot, and that's stupid. Most
states, yeah, do qualifying foran office six months out, so at

(41:35):
least the field is locked. Youdon't have to make last minute changes.
And this is one of those situationswhere you know, Louisiana keeps doing this
over and over because politicians can jockeyat the last minute. I've seen I've
stood in qualifying in the Secretary ofState's office or at local registr voters,
and I've seen people with filled outPaperWorks and a cashier's check to pay to

(41:57):
qualify for this office and they're standingthere there and it is Friday at four
fifty five, and they got tofive o'clock and everything they can turn it
in, and at four fifty fivethey step back and say, I'm not
doing anything. I mean I've seenit time and time again. Wow.
And because you know, you're justwaiting to the last minute to see how
race will be four months. TheFrench had a lot of problems of corruption

(42:21):
in their country in voting, sothey fixed it all paper ballots and the
election day is election day. Ifyou didn't get your voting by then,
tough luck. Now they're having greatelections. That's the way we used to
do elections. And they were great. They were hard to steal, they
were hard to core up. Nowwe've got all this, all kinds of
crazy stuff going on where they waitfor months, I mean weeks to count
the votes. And they that's earlymail in voting and early voting and balance

(42:45):
stuff. And you'll notice, you'llnotice always, you know, everything else.
You notice, we've got to getrid of we got to end this,
sup. Well, you you noticein Louisiana High You'll notice in Louisiana,
we never we don't have those problems, and because we don't, I
mean, you know who won anelection typically by the next morning, at
the very latest. And part ofthat is because the way it is,

(43:07):
a lot of the states they havethose problems do have paper ballots. So
the paper ballots are not a panacea. I do believe that our electronic voting
machines we every time you vote,you should have like a receipt printed out
that you can look at and thenput into bed. I'm a firm believer
that there ought to be a papertrail for every vote you make. But
but I don't. I don't thinkthey're just having a paper ballot. As

(43:29):
for early voting, that doesn't justbecause you have early voting doesn't mean you
get delayed on the results. What'shappening in a lot of these states.
You know what the main difference betweenLouisiana, which look Louisiana the folks with
a state where you know, whowas it that said, you know,
I think it's early long I wantto be buried at a certain cemetery and
sat Bernard so I could continue participatingin the political process long after I'm dead.

(43:52):
It's because we centralized our voting processesin this state, there's one rule
for the whole state. In moststates, every county has different rules,
and that's Pennsylvania is a great exampleof this. That's why it takes so
long, because everybody it's this,it's this mess and you can't It's one

(44:12):
thing not to have federal rules,it's it's another quite another when a state
doesn't vote the same way. Andthat's anybody talks about talking about deadlines for
voting. What is our deadline onthis show right now? Well, we're
right, it's a I think it'sa deadline to go into the next life.
I'm better known as Uh. We'regonna go to the patriotic moment right
after these important messages. Stay tuned. Hi, thank you for joining us

(44:34):
for Chicago. We'll see on theother side of breaks, y'all. Rescue,
recovery, re engagement. These arenot just words. These are the
action steps we at the New OrleansMission take to make a positive impact on

(44:55):
the homeless problem facing the greater NewOrleans area. Did you know in twenty
twenty, homelessness in our community increasedby over forty percent. We are committed
to meet this need through the workbeing done at the New Orleans Mission.
We begin to rescue process by goingout into the community every day to bring

(45:17):
food, pray, and share thelove of Jesus with the hopeless and hurting
in our community. Through the processof recovery, these individuals have the opportunity
to take time out, assess theirlife, and begin to make new decisions
to live out their God given purpose. After the healing process has begun and

(45:38):
lives are back on track, wewalk each individual as they re engage back
into the community to be healthy,thriving, and living a life of purpose.
No one is meant to live undera bridge. No one should endure
abuse, No one should be stuckin addiction. The New Orleans Mission is

(45:58):
a stepping stone out of that lifeof destruction and into a life of hope
and purpose. Partner with us todaygo to www dot New Orleans Mission dot
org or make a difference by textingto seven seven ninety eight. Well,

(46:27):
folks were back and it's chaplain highMcHenry and you are listening to the Founders
Show, and it's not time forus to go into our chaplain blah blah,
patriotic moment. Would just take abrief moment to give you a little
history lesson on the biblical foundations ofour country, our Judeo Christian jurisprudence.
And you know, we gathered eventspeople mainly people and their thoughts, their

(46:49):
quotes, their ideas, and wepresent them to you as an evidence of
the solid biblical foundations of our country. We usually have Americans, usually founding
fathers, but we do pre colonialfolks, we do even current people,
people today that are adding to thebiblical foundations, proving up that we have
a Judeo Christian jurisprudence. Well,today we're going to talk about Victor Hugo,

(47:13):
who was a Frenchman, not fromAmerica, but he had remarkable insights
into life and culture and politics.He was very involved in his own political
world and France was run out ofFrance because he opposed Napoleon. He was
really an amazing man and considered tobe maybe the greatest literary figure of all
of Europe, certainly one of them. For his funeral they had over a

(47:37):
million people that came, which wasa huge crowd back in those days,
to give him his farewell, finalfarewell. He's the author of The Hunchback
of Notre Dame. Les Contemplations,Les Miseraele, The Legend of the Centuries,
and numerous other great works. Hewas deeply involved in politics and was

(48:00):
exile, like I said earlier,a number of times from France. He
said several things that should bear greattestimony as to the biblical foundations of our
culture. Remember, we came fromEngland. We're a product of England.
So an enormous amount of law andpolitical philosophy is directly from England. And
this is what he said. Englandhas two books, the Bible and Shakespeare.

(48:23):
England made Shakespeare, but the Biblemade England. He went on to
say, courage for the great sorrowsof life, and patience for the small
ones. And when you have laboriouslyaccomplished your daily task, go to sleep
in peace. God is still awakelooking after us folks. So we can

(48:45):
see clearly here that Victor Hugo,who is a very political person, understood
the importance of God in government.And he pointed out that enormous place had
God had in English culture and Englandpolitics. English law, if you will
inflect Blackstone, who wrote the twogreat legal books for several centuries, was

(49:08):
all lawyers studied. Blackstones Dictionary andBlackstones Commentaries. Was a devout Christian and
included enormous amounts of Biblical thought andBiblical phrases in his work. Another insight
to this could come from Webster's Dictionary. Noah Webster, when Congress in the
first ten years of that Congress sat, they decided they needed a dictionary.

(49:30):
Dictionaries were coming out for the firsttime, we had dictionaries standardizing the English
language, also encyclopedias, and theywanted a dictionary that would clearly give us
correct spelling and correct definitions for thewords that lawyers would use, that lawmakers
would need to have so they couldbe technically accurate in their lawmaking. And

(49:52):
you know they chose. They choseNoah Webster, you know why. And
they made it very clear because theNoah Webster's original dictionary, every word had
a Biblical quote. Now, pleasedon't tell me they were trying to kick
God out of government. Think ofthat, folks, and in a lot
of this week in trace to ourEnglish heritage. Well, folks, I
don't know about you, but Isure know about me, and I'm glad

(50:15):
for it. You could be thegreatest patriot, biblical patriot that ever lived,
But what good would it do ifyou died and went to hell?
No good? So what I wantto do right now as we go into
our chaplain blah blah gospel, moomen, just take a short moment to show
you how you can know for sureyou're going to Heaven. You're saved from
a burning hell. You know,God really loves you, the Bible says.

(50:37):
He says it loves you with aneverlasting love. He created you,
He created you in his image.He created you to have fellowship and great
joy and friendship with Him forever.Yet we blew it, we chose sin,
we chose rebellion. But you knowthat didn't stop God's love. He
still kept loving us. So hecame up with a plan how to fix
our problem, our two problems,our sin problem and our death problem that

(51:00):
resulted from our original rebellion from God. And this is what it is.
He decided he'd become a man.He wanted to be at that up close
and personal and intimate with his creation. That man's name is the Lord Jesus
Christ. He's all the way Godand all the way Man, perfect God
and perfect Man. He came tothis earth to die for our sins and

(51:20):
then fix our death problem when hedied for our sins. The Bible says,
his blood washed him all the wayfrom the day you were born to
the day you die, your tiniestto your greatest sins. He paid for
him all right there on the cross. That took care of the first problem
and send problem. The next problemis your death problem, your second death.
He took care of that when hedied on the cross and rose from

(51:42):
the dead. His resurrection fixed yourdeath problem, your second death problem.
So the second death means hell,which means you would never know the deathlike
state of everybody in hell walking aroundale zombies, the walking dead. You
would instead be in heaven with hisresurrection, ever last in life. Now,
how do you get it? Godmade it very simple, He said,

(52:05):
believe two things. First, believeyou cannot save yourself. You're not
good enough, holy enough, righteousenough, or anything enough to earn heaven.
So forget it, give up onit. And when you believe that
you're hopeless and help us without Goda sin or damn to hell, and
you know that you've just repented.And then the next step is to believe
that only He can that he did, and that He will save you from

(52:27):
a burning hell because He died forall your sins and rose from the dead.
When you believe this with childlike faith, God guarantees you heaven. God
guarantees you salvation from a burning hell. If you've never done it before,
do it now. The Bible says, now today is a day of salvation.
And like the old country preacher said, don't wait till it's too late.
So believe right now with all yourheart that Jesus died for your sins

(52:49):
and rose from the dead, andyou're guaranteed heaven. Thank you so very
much. God bless you, andwe'll see you on the next show called
Oh goodbye, please pink. We'rejust wasting our time. Put a minute
of three sit by, say lovelythis time for a Creo goodbye. We

(53:47):
call it Creo goodbye, please pink. We're just wasting our time.