The Founders Show #476

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Bite holes and politicians addressed a digit. Dators and magicians us to see the
money, then you don't. There'snothing to feel the holes while then feel
in their pockets, bite holes,the politicians bouncing down the road, everybodsuition,

(00:25):
but no more corruption and dysfunction.It's gonna take divide intervention. We're
just past the sixtieth anniversary of theassassination of John F. Kennedy and New
Orleans' role in the assassination is huge, but actually nobody paid attention to it.
So we're gonna talk a little bitabout that and the ongoing impact of

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that assassination more than six decades later. At first part and second part,
we'll talk a little bit about what'sbeen going on with the idea of the
one stop shop for licensures. TheCantral administration since its beginning has systematically destroyed
it. Pandemic didn't, and sincethe pandemic nothing's improved. All this and
more on this edition of the Foundersand God bless all out there. You

(01:10):
are now listening to the Founders,So the voice of the Founding Fathers,
your Founding Fathers, coming to youdeep within the bowels of those mystic and
cryptic alligator swamps of the Big Easy, that old Crescent City, New Orleans,
Louisiana, and high up on topof that old Liberty Cypress Street,
draped in Spanish moss, and wayout on the Eagles Branch. This is

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none other then you've been Gary Babaof the Republic Chaplain. Hi mckenry,
who if Christopher Tidmore You're roving reporter, resident radical moderate and associate editor of
the Louisiana Weekly newspaper at Louisiana Weeklydot net. And we are joined this
week high by one of our foremosthistorians of New Orleans history, and I
believe one of the top tour guidesin the entire city, in the entire

(01:53):
state and country. I would goso far. But he's also a published
author, an expert in the Kennedyassassination. His book on Lee Harvey Oswald
in New Orleans is one of thedefinitive copies of it. And Jeffrey Holmes,
welcome back to the program. It'salways a privilege to have you on
the air. Yeah, Jeffrey,It's always great to be with you guys.
Last time. I love coming onand chatting with you guys. We

(02:15):
always have good conversations. Last timewe had ye all on, we had
your wife and she was tell usabout the axe murderer on Bourbon Street.
Yeah, oh yes, oh yes, it's New Orleans. Like your intro
said, it's uh, it's it'squite an unusual place. Very well.
Jeffrey and Jane as well, andthe company Strange Two Tours specialize in the

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tours that are of a little sometimesof the of the darker history of New
Orleans, but also the interesting historyand how it led to music and all
this christ that's the bottomless pitch.Yeah, darker history, that's inexhausted.
Yes, we do a little ofeverything. We were all over the place.
We can. We can take careof grandma, we can take care
of your weird uncle. Yeah.We only do private. We only do

(02:58):
private tours so you're not stuck ina big giant group like those giant ghost
tours, and you don't have thirtypeople walking around, which is another issue
we might talk about a little bitlater, and about what's going on in
the mark. For those that knowboth, not only is Jeffrey does,
but both him. I'm a licensedtour guy to teach part of the friends
of the Cabilla class, Heisman,a tour guy. In fact, I

(03:19):
hold one of the original licenses inthis city. God help us all.
But Jeffrey, we've got you onhere is to talk about your area of
historical in which you're a published author, and of course that's the Kennedy assassination.
And I have to say it wasyou who pointed out to me.
He said that we got past thesixtieth anniversary of the assassination and frankly,

(03:39):
not one article nothing about it inNew Orleans, even though we'd had conferences
on it, and so much ofthe story of Lee, Harvey Oswald,
the lead up to the assassination,Jack Ruby, all surrounds New Orleans.
Your thoughts on that, including Lee'sgirlfriend, judath Very Baker. Yes,

(04:00):
Yes, On the fiftieth anniversary,there were several articles and UNLA dot com.
We did have a big tour andeverything where Chris Milligan, the publisher
of Judith's Judith Baker's book, meand Lee and the doctor Mary's Monkey publisher
were down. So that was apretty big hullabaloo. But that was over
ten years ago, and it's it'sjust it seems like it's kind of dropped

(04:25):
off a little bit. I mean, there was a little interest with the
sixtieth anniversary, but I think whatit should be in my opinion, and
what's interesting about this I'm wondering,if you know, with Kennedy's are back
in the news in so many differentways. And my question about this,
Jeffrey is a lot of people tothis day don't realize well they don't realize,

(04:46):
for example, Lee Harvey Oswald wasnot only from New Orleans, he
was in New Orleans a couple weeksbefore the assassination. They don't realize the
bigger parts of the story that gointo things that are questioned. But they
don't realize the connections the Marcella familyhad with Joseph Kennedy, Jack Kennedy's father.
They don't realize how much of thetale of what led to the Kennedy

(05:09):
assassination supposedly, even if you thinkit's a single gunman came out of New
Orleans. Chris. Let's remember hisfamily. Part of his family was mafia.
In fact, his uncle was oneof the mafia lieutenants in this city.
So let's let's back up first.Drat, Yeah, he ran numbers
for Carlos Marcello and and you know, it's kind of funny because we talk

(05:29):
about the assassination. One month beforethe assassination, the guy who put me
on the radio, Ed Butler,happened to see Lee Harvey Oswald. He
was coming out of the Pickwick Clubwith the doctor auctioner. He happened to
see Lee Harvey Oswald passing out hisballads handoff Cuba right in front of Exchange
Alley. But most people realize isExchange Alley was a place Lee Harvey Oswald

(05:51):
didn't just decide to show up,and he had connections going back decades with
it. Can you talk about that? Well, he lived in the alley
way right when twenty six change place, right before he went into the Marines.
It was it was sort of home, his uncle's place. He knew
the neighborhood. He was in NewOrleans boy. His family goes back to
easily to his grandparents on both sidesof his family. So he was a

(06:12):
New Orleans boy. You know,his grandfather was a streetcarking doctor doesn't get
you know, it's a lot betterthan my New Orleans connections and my death.
Well, you know, so hewas here, he knew it and
his uncle Charles. Even though hisfamily was out of the Wille Melinda,
his family travel and he lived inNew York for a while, living in
Texas for a while, but hisroots were here. His family was here,

(06:35):
yes, exactly. His roots werehere, yep. And he was,
you know, raised without a father, a single mom trying to uh
keep a couple of kids with youknow, food in their bellies in that
day and age of the nineteen thirtiesand nineteen forties especially, And do you
know what his great dream in lifewas from the times a little boy then,
I believe he wanted to be aspy. Yeah, yes, And

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you know what from one of themoviehood book it was a TV show called
The Men with the Man with ThreeLives, Right, that's right, if
you really want to be a spyinghe dreamed for that his whole life.
And then he was recruited out ofthe Marine Corps by the CIA, which
was typical. They're still doing it. Uh yeah, I really think he
was. He was, Well,you're talking a part of the story that

(07:19):
makes the newspapers. The day afterthe Kennedy assassination front page of the State's
Item of which I have a copysitting literally right in front of it us
is Ed Butler having walked up toLee Harvey Oswald thirty days before the Kennedy
assassination takes place and asking him whyare you passing out these hands off Cuba

(07:40):
and inviting him on his radio showand d WD issue and coming on and
ending up taping it. And thereason why I bring up that interview is
the cover of your book, ifI'm not mistaken, Jeffrey Holmes, is
the record Ed Butler puts out.Can you talk about that? Correct?
One of several that was the InformationCouncil of the Americas, which is a

(08:01):
weird little anomaly in this whole thingright wing propaganda machine created in fifty nine
by doctor Oxtioner, financed by ClintMurchison, And when after the assassination they
took that interview into w DSU andstarted producing all of these LPs. There

(08:22):
are seven total that I am awareof and in existence, and the majority
of them were by INCA and EdButler. There's a couple others. There
is one bootleg and a few othersthat were produced by other other, you
know, press companies, and theywere probably just maybe cover names, like

(08:45):
one as truth Records, and Ican't find anything about truth Records. Truth
Records the only LP they were produced. Truth Records was part of what Frawley
James, of the guy who hadwho Ed. Butler worked with his biggest
client put out Yeah and Bishop wastheir chairman. And I sat at board
meetings with Bishop because I was onthe board of ENKA for the last two

(09:09):
years of its existence. It wasjust a good old boys club and all
he did was talking about the olddays that we didn't do really anything,
but it was interesting to hear theold stories. I don't know, because
I went to a couple of thosemeetings. I saw you there. It
was so when I was ED,Butler puts Jeff Carrera and I on the
radio UM in nineteen ninety nine,and it was he brought w t I
X six ninety AM back as atalk station and he hires us and we

(09:33):
basically that he was kind of livingoff of his fame. But Ed and
I spent a lot of nights lateinto the night talking about the Kennedy assassination.
And he had every copy of therecordings he had the true social He
actually often had a film video thatwas converted to video of him sitting in
the same studio and uh and interviewingLee Harvey Oswald. But it was it

(09:56):
was recreation. So you had Oswald'swords and a photograph of him there and
he came outs. That was allof that was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina flooded
out. Yeah, he had,He had great files. We don't know
all that we're in his files,but wouldn't we love to be able to
see them. He was saving themfor posterity, all lost in Katray and
then he died shortly thereafter. Hewas he was he was saving them.

(10:18):
Believes he saw Yeah, Ed hostaOn, the author of Doctor Mary's Monk,
he believes that he saw the leftoverremnants of those in the nineties up
on Yeah. Yeah, listen.Do you think Butler tell me a Bishop
ever figured out. I would havethought he would that Oswald was not the
lone gunman and that he was thatit really was a conspiracy. Did he
ever? I'm in Butler Butler.Did Butler ever figure that out? No?

(10:39):
No, I'll tell you right nowwhat Ed Butler thought, because we
talked about it at length. Yeah, this is the cool question about the
story of the assassination for those thatare just joining high. Mckenry and Christopher
Timore were joined by historian Jeffrey Holmes, one of the experts in the Kennedy
assassination, particularly Lee Harvey Oswald's lifein New Orleans, of which he is
an author of a book, andum Ed and I talked about this at

(11:01):
least a half a dozen times atlength, and Ed, who had looked
at it from every angle, wasconvinced that Lee Harvey Oswald, or so
he told me early. And Iwas about twenty four years old on the
time he told me. He saidOswald was a single shooter. He's he's
a single shooter. Except what's interesting, Jeffrey, and let's and we don't
have to recount the whole story we'vehad ed it has him on. But

(11:24):
there were a lot of people aroundEd Butler that were intimately involved with this.
And while I don't think Ed liedto me, I do wonder at
times if he blinded himself to alot of what was going on around him.
Can you comment on that, hJeffrey, I have a theory on
that, Jeffrey. Well, Ibelieve Ed believed what he wanted to believe.

(11:50):
Yeah, and he looked for factsthat would corroborate what he believed,
and that is so easy to doin any subject. Yeah, you know,
you're just looking for the information thatmakes your story correct, right,
And you know didn't want to seethe great communist fighter. He thought he
had a really dangerous communist on hishands. He didn't want to let that

(12:11):
story go. He hung on toit. That's my theory about Ed Butler
because incidentally, I did the memorialservice on the fifty anniversary for Oswald at
the grave site on that day thathe was buried, and we had the
international media with everybody local, national, international media. All there is a
big crowd, and I remembered himas a great marine and a victim of

(12:33):
a real war, hero of theCoal War. All right. So Ed
Butler's got these things, but he'she's next to somebody when he sees Oswald.
That's uh, doctor Alton Oxtioner,who was a great man in his
own right. But he's yes,but there's a lot of powerful and powerful
man the man founder of Oxer Clinic. And when he's passing out those brochures,

(12:56):
he's Oswald has just come from ajob at the Riley Coffee Come.
But he has just gotten basically lostit and that was involved in this.
So walk us through a little bitas as if we were on your tour,
Jeffrey Holmes, of what's going onat that month before the Kennedy assassination
with me because when I because whenI talk about the INCA and the connections,

(13:16):
because people that were on the boardand that day and age was you
know, Edith Stern of w ADST two, they're the ones at film
Lee and put them on the TVuh doctor auction er um Um, William
Riley of Riley Coffee Company. Youknow, they're all people of power in
the city and and somehow Oswald isunderneath all of them. It's it's that

(13:39):
just just on a logical sense,because what we do is we start off
at five forty four Camp Street andfor people that aren't from New Orleans especially,
just show him how close everything is. Lee's are right there at the
International Trademark passing out to Literature Umbeing filmed and when he was happening first.

(14:00):
Yeah, and that was my firstlittle nugget of this whole thing,
way before Katrina. Yeah, andI'd never you know, it was Michael
Lala. He was the WDSU cameramanand I worked for him in his restaurant,
Old New Orleans Cookery right before Katrinahit and he passed away, and
as I said, he was thew DS two photographer and he told me

(14:20):
he got to work that day thatOswald was passing out to literature and said
he picked up the clipboard and wasscheduled to be at that location at that
time because something was happening. Becausethe whole thing was staged. This is
New Orleans. You're not calling upa TV station and saying, hey,
guys, we got some weirdo outhere in the corner. He might want

(14:41):
to get a camera. There's aweirdo on every corner corner even in the
sixties. You know, it's justnot going to happen unless it was set
up. So that was my veryfirst nugget into this whole thing. And
years later, kind of like anEd Hastlem through his life, little nuggets
kind of started adding up and hestarted questioning things and went, hey,

(15:01):
wait a minute, and that wasso wet. I think part of the
INCA setup. I think he wasset up to do the whole thing.
Yeah, looking for Castros Buies atthe same time simultaneously being cheap dipped as
a communist, right, So thisis the great question that comes in.
Was Lee Harvey Oswald a patsy?And it comes in. Jeffrey Holmes,

(15:24):
historian tour guide, is joining ushere on The Founders Show with Hi mckenry
and Christopher Tidmore. We're just passedthe sixtieth anniversary the Kennedy assassination, and
we're kind of poison the question becauseso many of these people were involved,
if you believe ed Haslam in aproject where Lee Harvey Oswald was providing security,
and the question is, did LeeHarvey Oswald not was he the loan

(15:48):
shooter or was he part of theshooters? Was he actually trying to stop
the shooters and it was blamed onhim. That's one of the questions that
has been posed about this assassination.He was trying to stop it, as
he had done in the to assassinationat three times before, and he wasn't
the shooter. He wasn't even inposition to shoot. We know where you
stand. Let's ask Jeffrey. Jeffrey, you've looked at this and you're very

(16:10):
careful not to make definitive judgments.But you've looked at all. Yeah,
that's well. One. Where exactlywas he when the shots rang out?
That is still debatable. There's belief, you know, very solid evidence that
he was in the break room onthe second floor, not breathing heavy after
running downstairs. Another gentleman believes hewas in the doorway instead of Mormon.

(16:36):
But I don't believe he fired agun. I do believe he's a patsy.
But what I do primarily because thiswhole thing is a spider web,
and you see how easy we're goingoff on tangents, you know, inside
alleys. So I try and focuspretty much on New Orleans and all the
activity that was going on here,all the stuff that was connected to it.
And that's pretty much what my bookis. It's a guidebook. It

(17:00):
doesn't say he did it or hedidn't do it. It's just this location
this happened. So give us ifyou raw your own conclusion, if you
win, Jeffrey Holmes, give usabout five examples of things that were going
on that raised questions with Lee HarveyOswald in the month or two before the
Kennedy assassination. I mean the biggestone of all is passing out that literature.

(17:21):
You know, he's right in frontof the International Trademark where every Latin
American businessman in the city at leastconducts business ad which is only one block
away from the Pickwick Club. Andwho is the Pickwick Club, Clay Shaw,
Riley of Riley Coffee Company, doctorAlton Oxener, Edith Stern. And
from that place on the corner onCanal Street, it was directly across the

(17:45):
street where Lee was passing out hisliterature. When he got arrested a week
later, it was the ninth InternationalTrademark, one week, sixteenth Canal Street.
And it's when you're standing there andI'm pointing at this apt with people
that aren't from New Orleans and explainingthat he was literally a puppet on strings.

(18:06):
No matter where this man went,somebody could look out a window.
It was, you know, theywere sitting there having their cocktails, looking
out the window, watching their mandoing following his orders. And a little
interesting side note side note, becauseof how close to New Orleans is one
of the arresting officers on Canal Streetis the uncle of the saxophone player Clint

(18:30):
magent A Preservation Hall jazz band,and he confessed to IRV Megrey, who
was head of PANO and is nowhead of the Crime Fighters Organization. Erv
has told me the story that onhis deathbed he said he was part of
an arrest and cover up. Andso this is the police officer and the

(18:52):
fact of the matter is there's alot of questions. Was Lee Harvey Oswald
putting on this front of hands offCuba, this sort of pro communist runt
for doing something else? And thatgets into the work of what he was
doing. And we got to takea quick commercial break. But when we
come back here with the Founders Show, we're going to explore the idea that
was Lee Harvey Oswald involved not onlywith the CIA plot, but with the

(19:12):
mafia here locally. You're going tofind out that his connections to the Marcello
crime family went back a long,long way. And for the JFK.
Garrison trial, why was it atforty plus key witnesses all mysteriously disappeared during
the trial and could never make thewitness stand that screams in my ears.
We're talking the sixtieth anniversary the Kennedyassassination with historian Jeffrey Holmes, author of

(19:37):
Oswald in New Orleans, and We'llbe back after these important messages. Stay
tuned more on the founders show herein w R and O and WSLA Rescue,
Recovery, re engagement. These arenot just words. These are the
action steps we at the New OrleansMission take to make a positive impact on

(19:57):
the homeless problem facing the greater NewOrleans area. Did you know in twenty
twenty, homelessness in our community increasedby over forty percent. We are committed
to meet this need through the workbeing done at the New Orleans Mission.
We begin to rescue process by goingout to the community every day to bring

(20:19):
food, pray, and share thelove of Jesus with the hopeless and hurting
in our community. Through the processof recovery, these individuals have the opportunity
to take time out, assess theirlife, and begin to make new decisions
to live out their God given purpose. After the healing process has begun and

(20:41):
lives are back on tracked, wewalk each individual as they re engage back
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No one is meant to live undera bridge. No one should endure
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(21:07):
and purpose. Partner with us todaygo to www dot New Orleans Mission dot
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we're back with the Founders Show hereon w R and O and WSLA.
Remember you can always hear this programevery Sunday from eight to nine a m.

(21:32):
On WRNO. That's ninety nine pointfive on your FM doll every Monday,
Wednesday and Friday Friday, Monday andWednesday on ninety three point nine FM
fifteen sixty AM WSLA, and ontwenty four seven three sixty five on the
iHeartMedia app. And of course alwaysat the Founders Show dot com. As
always, I'm Christopher Tidmore and Chopolinheimckenry. And for me, the big
question here is, I don't doubtthat this was a conspiracy, and it

(21:56):
was a very dangerous one and withtremendous amount of government connections. But what
concerns me is if they did thatback then and got away with it,
what are they doing today? We'rejoined by Jeffrey Holmes, historian author of
Oswald in New Orleans. And Ihad to tell you, Jeffrey, you
and I both heard a story.I thought, after you and I both

(22:18):
commented on this assassination for years,you've written a book on it. You've
had me and introduced me to CBSNews. We've done this. I thought
I had heard it all. Andthen you had a guy on one of
your tours who was researching it thatyou sent to me, and he told
a story about a car that hadbelonged to one Jack Ruby, and it
was actually hid in a garage ina suburban memory for a year after the

(22:44):
assassination. And he was the kid, the child of the owners of that
house. And it was because theparson who ordered that it be hid was
a very close associate of one CarlosMarcello. What is the Marcello family's connection
with all this? Because it weavesin and out of the whole story of
Lee Harry Oswald, Jack Ruby andthe Kennedy assassination. Carlos marcel started with

(23:07):
him being illegally deported to Guatemala whenRFK became Attorney General and he was filling
out his immigration paperwork, as hedid every six months his entire life,
and he was literally ambushed in theimmigration office in New Orleans, handcuffed,
on a plane and airborne in thirtyminutes. And he's four eternal vengeance.
And that's from one of the topmafia dons in the country. What do

(23:30):
you think that at that time,at that time, one of the most
powerful monsters in the United States period? Right? It is? It is
worth knowing that Carlos Marcello was inGuatemala for I think it was about twenty
four hours until he bribed a fishermanto drive to take him to Grand Dollar
for ten thousand dollars, which wasreal money in those days. And he
ended up staying in his house inGrand Dial for the next six months.

(23:52):
So it wasn't a long exile.But the fits. Yeah, I've heard
stories that it was David Ferry whowent picked him up in an airplane and
brought him back. Yes, allright, but then that's a whole another
wild card in this whole thing.Oh geez. So let's let's let's here's
what we know. I mean,we talk about the speculation at Haslem has

(24:14):
a speculation about doctor Mary Sherman andthe research. There's a lot of speculation,
but every single theory on the assassinationof jeffk comes back to Carlos Marcello
in some connection, most notably whowas Jack Ruby after all? Explain it
to us the guy who killed JackRubinstein, Uh, you know, mafioso

(24:37):
and he caught his club, yeah, out of Chicago, and he was
in Dallas with his club. Andit was because he had a aged the
mafia's business and money was entertainment bars. We didn't have credit cards back then.
Cash business is easy to skim money. And burlesque and all these girls,

(24:59):
these burlesque dancer, these were contractplayers. So they'd have a contract
in New Orleans for three months,then a contract in Dallas for a month,
and they're in Miami, then they'rein Havana. They're all in them
offfia spots, New York, Philly, in Arkansas. So Jack Ruby worked
under Carlos. He was here allthe time picking up dancers and taking them

(25:19):
back to Dallas. And um,because you have Jada Conforto, a few
of others Sharemi Rose, sharemy that'sanother very bizarre situation. You know,
it's basically she was telling her doctorsa day or two before the assassination exactly

(25:42):
what was going to happen, interviewedby the FBI. But she was a
drug addict, she was a prostitute. It's very to dismiss somebody like that.
Yeah, what I what I sayis regardless of lifestyle choices, that
is one heck of a psychic.I mean, if you believe Jude,

(26:04):
if you believe Judi Varry Baker,who you both know very well, who
has written a book, and sheattests that she was Lee Harvey Oswald's girlfriend,
that she was worn two days beforethe assassination. But there's so many
even if you don't believe that,there's so many fundamental questions. The best
one, of course, is itHASLM makes reference to it. A lot

(26:25):
of people make reference to it.The fact that clay Shaw in his time
was the head of the BIT.I mean, he was head of the
international trademark. He was the epitome, the literally apex of society. That
he would know. David Ferry isnot like he's predicts in the JFK movie.
He was sort of an operative,but he was around that they would

(26:47):
they would associate with Lee Harvey Oswald, who is this failed Marinas would be
absurd except the fact that it's notjust Nigel Rafferty, who was the person
who's question, who was the lawschool roommate of Jim Garrison, who also
happens to be my wife's grandfather,who's looking at all of this. The
fact is that we know for weknow that there was a drive that was

(27:11):
taken with the three of them fromNew Orleans to Angola. And the reason
we know it is they stopped inDonaldsonville, Louisiana, And there's a piece
of evidence that kind of throws thisall into this. Do you know,
can you recount that story Jeffrey Holmes, historian on the Kennedy a little bit
where he allegedly got out, gotline and registered to vote, right there

(27:33):
was for those Yeah, it wasthe middle of the it was the middle
of the voting rights thing, andLee Harvey Oswald was support of civil rights,
and so it got up and hejoined the line to registered votes.
So we know that that Lee hOswald registered to vote on that day in
Donaldsonville. He left a paper traillike that all around this country giving clues

(27:55):
to the Secret Service about what wasgoing on. It wasn't one military personnel
do that. He even he evenflew up to the Manhattan the Museum up
there in Tennessee and entered out.He put his name there and with something
about JFK. So they would startpicking it up. Lee hard so,
Lee Harvey Oswald, who had beenin a marine corps. It raises a

(28:17):
lot of questions. You know,he's supposed to lent defects to the Soviets,
but he then is able to comestraight out of the country without a
problem and restores America. Yeah,that that that doesn't fly with me.
I mean, I've looked at I'velooked at he wasn't the only he wasn't
the only person who defected. Andif you looked at other defectors from the
United States to their or to NorthKorea to around the time, they were

(28:40):
never allowed back. They were theywere stripped to the American citizenship. Lee
Harvey Oswald just something. He decides, Hey, I want to go home,
and he has a wife, andhe takes him home and there's no
paperwork, there's no problems, nonothing. Back to the States. They
lent the State Department lent him fourhundred and thirty five dollars to buy his
plane tickets and come back to US. Yeah, he listen to this.

(29:00):
He gets emergency leave because his motherhas the flu. They'll never give you
emergency leave for that, I know, I don't background. But he gets
to come back to New Orleans andthe next thing you know, he's on
his ship to Russia. He getsto Russia, he first goes to the
US embassy, guarded by marines.He's walking right into his arrest for being
a wall and they don't he said, for four days, they don't touch
him. We don't know what wenton, but something went on in that

(29:22):
in the embassy, and then heleaves, and then he becomes quote a
defector and he and the Russians don'ttrust him though, because it's both sides
were doing it to one another,and they knew a lot of the quote
defectors for our agents being trying tofor US trying to plan him. And
he had a crypto current had toclassify Uh Clarence. He had crypto,
so that impressed him, but stillthey didn't really trust him. So they

(29:42):
watched him very closely. And partof the way they watched him, they
forced him to marry h kg Bee'sdaughter, that's his wife, Marina,
and um so to really keep aneye on him. And when he realized
he wasn't going anywhere and he wasand he couldn't get anything done, they
kept him in a factory. Hedecided it's over, and I'm sure his
handler said, hey, let's getyou out here. You're no use.

(30:03):
Yeah, So they sent him backto the US, where then he continued
the thing as a communist operator,you know, fanatic starting up trouble and
as his cover here in New Orleans. He was the right man at the
right place at the wrong time,right right. One of the things that
he knew that he actually knew it. One of the things that gets me
about the questions around as we lookback in the sixtieth anniversary of the Kennedy

(30:27):
assassination, one of the things thathas always intrigued me was, there's so
many red flags about this story.And it's not just the specter defense that
of what lone gunmen and the andthe and the bullet turns around in mid
air and ricochets off and does allthis different stuff. Yeah, it's the
fact that if you're and I've beenan investigative journalist my career, when you

(30:47):
start having three or four different thingsthat don't make sense, there's some part
of the story that doesn't make sense. Here's the thing that I've always questioned.
Though we're sixty years in, Iunderstand the real government well enough to
know that it is a most inefficientorganization in the history of time. So
if this was a conspiracy, howdoes this stay secret for sixty years?

(31:12):
Remember the Freedom of Information Act isseventy years, you know, where they
can't conceal anything whatsoever period at allby law. The government also has a
very good ability of having fires andcomputer crashes and information being lost forever.

(31:32):
I'm sure yea as well, Yeah, oh yeah, there's always She's trying
to get her some of her militaryrecords and everything right now. And apparently
the wing of that building how tofire back in the mid two thousands,
and so she's having trouble getting benefits. But it's Disinformation is an art form.

(31:56):
Yeah, I'm producing it and destroyingit. I was training that in
my back ground with you as akind of intelligence agent with US Army Special
Forces with a top secret clearines.So I know all about it and all
the tricks they play, and thetricks are all over that story all over.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it'sa playbook. Just follow the playbook,
follow the plans, and just gothrough. Don't ask questions, follow

(32:17):
orders and carry on. You know, it's interesting. I think everything that's
ever happened just about is stored ata N S A. And I mean
everything, and all you have todo is go there and you can find
at all. Have you noticed theynever tap into that? Of course,
I realize it's top secret, varioustop secret stuff, and probably there's all

(32:38):
kinds of protections where nobody can lookat anything, but all Hillary and emails
are there, you know, alleverything about JFK said, it's all there
right now. At the end ofthe day, truth is bad for business,
right what matter what it is?Historian historian Jeffrey Holmes, the author
of the Oswald New Orleans, isjoining him Kenry and Christopher Tidmore here in

(33:00):
the Founders Show we talk about thesixtieth anniversary of the Kennedy assassination. We're
just pasted it and we're talking aboutsome of the implications of this. And
I always, I always basically say, okay, what did the family believe,
and I'll tell you a story whichI don't know has ever been told
on the air. So, asboth of you know, one night there

(33:23):
were as both of you know thatI'm friends. I do a podcast called
Hunter Gatherers as the Hunter s.Thompson Stories. I spent a lot of
time with people who knew Hunter.And one night at al Farm there was
an argument of what day of theweek the Kennedy was shot. Now,
this is the early nineties, sothis is before Google. You just can't

(33:45):
google what's going on. This islike the very beginning pre it's Internet exists,
but it's not really that. Andthey're all sitting around. It's two
o'clock in the morning, two o'clockin the morning, they're all drinking,
and they're trying to figure out notthat the date, but what day was
it a Wednesday or Tuesday? Soand so forth, And so out of
no Hunter decides he'd just called JohnJohn in New York, which, of
course it's four o'clock in the morningand just and so he just dials John

(34:09):
John's apartment in New York. Andof course John John was the editor of
George magazine and wanted Hunter write forhim. So he's been he'd been wooing
Hunter to do this. But alsoHunter Thompson was very close to the Kennedy's.
They would come regularly, all ofthe different ones to al Farm.
So it calls up John John andhe says, um, you know,
John John, when the mafia killedyour father, do you remember what day

(34:31):
of a week it was? Andhere's the thing, John John actually remembered.
It was a Wednesday, and hewas a kid. Obviously we all
know that the picture. But thepoint of the whole thing was the Kennedy's
didn't debate the issue that the mobtook out it. They never believed They

(34:52):
themselves have never believed the single shooterat things, the stuff that um,
you know in the midst of thepast, the presidential race where RF Kate
Junior was saying all this different stuff. Honestly, he's just saying what the
Kennedy's believed for all of those years. It's nothing. It's and that's the
part I find astonishing. You maynot believe this whole thing, but usually

(35:15):
when the family believes something, youmight give it a little credence. They
just don't talk about it. Andremember, the mafia knows what's going on
inside of the mafia better than anybody. And who was in the mafia JFK's
father. It was Uncle Joe,I mean Papa Joe. They not precisely.
He he got them their alcohol fromoverseas. So yeah, he was

(35:37):
for He was a big time partof it. All the Scotts drank in
America came through his operations. Andof course he did it with the mafia.
He was part of the Irish mafia, if you will, and the
Irish mafia in the Italian mafia manytimes work I was just saying, business
is business. Who's getting their cut? Are you paying a permit or paying
somebody up the line, And it'sall connected. There are so many connections

(35:58):
in the Kennedy assassination. We couldspend hours talking about this. But I
do think you bring a major point, Jeffrey Holmes, and the fact that
no one's really talking sixty years,the sixtieth anniversary, and this is something
here in New Orleans that we reallyshould be talking about. If for no
other reason they forget the historical truth. It's actually is a good business for
us. And the fact is,oh it is, Yeah, you do

(36:20):
that with strange true tours. Theidea of cultural tourism and history, contemporary
history plays a role, and wedon't do enough with actually telling that story
doing in New Orleans. No,we don't. Everybody comes here and they
want a ghost tour and it's thesame. There's a hundred of these companies
and they're all regurgitating the same script, and it's somebody who's not a historian.

(36:43):
There's no passion. And there's somuch to this city. Mafia history,
the Oswald, there's our Bourbon Street, a Boult history, to Battle
of New Orleans, which I knowyou've been very involved in, Christopher,
to everything in between. Pick asubject. There's no city like this and

(37:04):
the planet Native America and fascinating here. Yeah, it is all our street
names and everything else. It's it'sa true multi ethnic gumbo. And I
would you know, go ahead,I've had I've had people from Siberia come
to New Orleans and take our tours. Siberia. Wow, everybody in the
planet knows New Orleans. And whenour biggest commercial draw is Bourbon streets and

(37:31):
those beads and boobies and um,you know, just getting drunk and taking
a ghost tour, it's not usanymore. And have you've been through the
French Quarter lately, it's not.We now have a no and we're starting
to get national chains in. There'sa something Dave's Last Resort, which is

(37:53):
a chain, a burger and chickensandwich chain. We got this Voodoo Donuts,
which is a hipster shop out ofPortland. I avoided as much as
possible the French Quarter, but that'sthe heart of our culture and we really
don't and I've experienced it because I'veoverseen as a part of the Louisiana State

(38:14):
Museum Board, the Lower Pintabla andthe Change want to rent all the places
and we said, we try tokeep it away from it. But I
think part of the problem we haveis that we have a system derived to
be a tour guide or to bean ambassador for our city that discourages people
from wanting to do it. Andone of the things I will I want

(38:34):
to end on one political note ifI could, the success of the Mitch
Landry administration. A lot of peopledisagree with him, but I'm gonna give
him credit on something, and that'sthe fact he created a true one stop
shop and that was for every kindof permit you could get. You could
show up at the at the topfloor of City Hall. You could walk
in, you could get it.And that was true of tour guides,

(38:54):
where you could walk in, applyfor your license, to go across the
street, take your background and beout in an hour. Now it's a
little bit different, isn't it.Jeffrey Holmes's it was the only shining moment
of efficiency I've ever seen in NewOrleans. And you go down and you
do your background check at the endof Canal Street or middle of Canal Street,

(39:16):
and by the time you got tothe taxi bureau, your background check
it already cleared. They have theemail. You walk in, you get
your number, and twenty minutes lateryou walk out with your license. It
took an hour hour and a half, depending on if you were driving or
taking a street car. And itwas brilliant. It was it was easy,
it was simple, even made gettingthe federal background check, which is

(39:37):
something that Mitch Landry required every twoyears, even made it bearable because you
were just crossing the street, soit wasn't it didn't take that long.
And it's a pain in the butt, but it does keep out some riff
raff, you know, I meanit's it's the French Quarter. It was
a safety measure, and so youwant to do things properly. Well,
what has happened since the pandemic andparticularly the Cantrol administration, is that you

(39:59):
saw all of the permitting for multipledepartments thrown all over the city. And
what has worried me is it's madepeople who are historians who want to give
back, who want to tell thestory, who aren't seeking necessarily to make
a full living at this or evensomething that are and it is basically discouraging
them because you have to be apolitical master to be able to renew a

(40:21):
license to walk around and talk abouthistory in New Orleans. Can you tell
you and I went through this,and you're going through you've gone through this,
and you and your wife's gone throughit. Go ahead, yeah,
my wife and three days in arow called the taxi bureau, talk to
three different people, and not asingle person knew how to get the paperwork

(40:43):
to the taxi bureau, just nota clue. And they took a department
and where did all these people go? By the way, where did they
go? Everybody needs a job,and you know, it's not like gets
shut down during COVID that these peopleare in offices, and so there's you
can't get your license right now,It's taken two to five months for a

(41:05):
tour guide to get a license.A tour company will not hire you unless
you have a license, so you'reprevented from actually working. And then the
other factor is there is just absolutelyno enforcement, none whatsoever. Oversized groups,
noise, amplification, and it doesn'tmake for a good experience. Well
if there's no enforcements and Jeffrey,yeah, yeah, and you get into

(41:30):
it because for all the regulations,it comes down. We make it very
difficult to get a license. Butyou hope that would produce good tour guides.
But there's no enforcement and your yourcompany and reputable tour guides keeps it
under six to twelve people. You'vegot some companies that are breaking every law
and rule and having thirty in thecity does nothing. And we're not surprised.

(41:52):
Oh yeah, I see it ona regular basis. So I'm out
on the French Quarter on a regularbasis, and it's and everybody thinks they're
getting over over their competitor. WellI got thirty people, so I'm making
my money today. When you goout there and create bad experiences, it's
detrimental to our tourism overall. Andwe saw when we shut down for COVID.

(42:14):
We live and die by our tourism. Yeah, and why are you
going to come here and go toBourbon Street when there's no police on Bourbon
Street. There's people holding up bagsof weed in the middle of the street.
And it's just that there needs tobe decorum. It's not Disney World,
and it doesn't have to be.But you can go to Frenchton Street
and feel safe and comfortable and havea good time for why you know.

(42:37):
Jeffrey Holmes, the author of OswaldNew Orleans, is joining us as books
available on Amazon, and we're tryingto get some more copies for the Garden
District bookshop, but we'll have thatas well. Jeffrey willing to thank you.
Just keep hounding me, keep houndingme. We want to thank you
for joining us, and at leastif no one else is, we're looking
back with the questions at the sixtiethanniversary of the Kennedy assassination having passed,

(42:58):
Jeffrey, you are right great toour God. I appreciate your work here.
Nuance. I know you're not originallyfrom Nwalance, but you are a
blessing to this city. I mean, I love what I do and when
I've got people like you, youguys that I can actually talk to and
we do these subjects. And Christopher, you and I have worked together on
numerous occasions. What do we dothree days with the Founders and Patriots of

(43:22):
America? And it's just and thereis that knowledge here. We have these
people who are these experts. Butas you just said, Christopher, it's
if it's too difficult to do yourjob, why bother. And it's our
guests to our city that are theones who are losing. And Jeff,
as the president of the Founders show, I now proclaim you an honorary native,

(43:45):
so you never have to make apologies. I wasn't born here. You
are now an honorary Okay, Igot that claim with my post Katrina recovery
work. Someday, will sit downand I'll show you that stuff. Yeah,
I'd love to see folks will beback with the Patriotic movement after these
important messages. Stay tuned more ofthe Founder show up to well, folks.

(44:09):
This is chapenhih McHenry and I'm hereto tell you about our ministry,
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(44:30):
have lots of issues that create tremendousdrama and trauma that we deal with which
we deal we need all the helpwe can get, so if you're interested,
please contact us. We need volunteers, we need financial support, and
we need prayer warriors. So rememberyou can get us at LAMB NOLA dot

(44:51):
com. It's lamb NLA dot comand thank you so very very much.
Check out the summer flower specials atVilleri's Florist, Great our Baskets, flower
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(45:13):
or vildis floors dot Com on theweb and tell them you heard it here
in the Founders show. Well,folks were back and this was chaplain High
mcginry, and you are listening tothe Founders, so the voice of the
Founding fathers. And it is nota time for us to go into our
chaplain blah blah patriotic moment. Wejust take a brief moment to remind you
of the biblical foundations of our country, our Judeo Christian jurisprudence. And today

(45:36):
we want to talk about none otherthan Abraham Lincoln, a man, a
great man, who was also assassinated, just as JFK was. Folks,
this Lincoln thought about God and government. In regards to this great book,
the Bible, I have but tosay it is the best gift God has
given to man. All the goodthe Savior gave to the world was communicated

(46:00):
through this book. But for itwe could not know right from wrong.
All things most desirable for man's welfarehere and in the hereafter are found portrayed
in it. Folks. I thinkAbraham Lincoln believed we need to keep God
in government. You know, hewas pretty much of an irreligious person for
much of his life, even thoughas a young man he loved the Bible.

(46:22):
He learned to read and write onthe Bible, and his mother had
a great influence on him as faras spiritual things went. But when he
became a young man and in hiscareer, he kind of forgot it all
and drifted away. But then atthe near the end of his life,
through the works of Father Chennekee,Sojourner Truth, Dwight Moody, and a
couple of others, they had ahuge impact on his life. And it

(46:44):
is believed at Gettysburg Lincoln had aconversion and became a devout evangelical Christian.
And it was seen by the factthat for the first time in his life
he would literally find people to praywith in the White House. He would
go down in the kitchen and hewould pray with a SER's in the kitchen,
the black servants who were very spiritual. So obviously Abraham Lincoln became a

(47:06):
very very strong Christian and he wantedto keep God in government. He says
that the Bible was the way toknow how to get to the hereafter,
the good hereafter. If you will, folks it is now time for us
to go into our chop and blahblah gospel moment where we show you how
you can know that you know that, you know where you're going in the
hereafter the good side, if youwill heaven. And it goes like this,

(47:29):
God loves you with an everlasting love. You see, this is all
about love. The whole story isa love story. It's just that simple.
And God created you so he couldlove you forever and had that love
relationship with you forever. But weturned on God and we became his enemy.
So now God's got a problem.But you know, God can handle
any problem, and this is howhe handled it. He knew we would
never be good enough, smart enough, righteous enough, religious enough, or

(47:50):
whatever enough to ever be good enoughfor heaven. So he decided he would
do it for us, and thisis how he did it. He became
a man to be that intimate withus, so he literally became his own
creation. His name is God,the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
He came to this earth to takecare of our two great love problems,
to fix it once and for all. First love problem, sin, which

(48:13):
cuts us off from God. Anythingyou do, say, or think that's
wrong. It's sin. We allknow it's sin is. Folks. Come
on, you know how you knowthe golden rule doing to others as you
would have them do un to you. Well, guess what when somebody does
you dirty, all of a suddenyou know just what sin is, don't
you. You might say'll think yousin till you get nailed. Then all
of a sudden you're brilliant on theissue of sin. So we all know

(48:35):
what sin is. And Jesus cameto take care of that terrible problem we
have, and it manifests itself inso many ways, folks. He took
it all. The Bible says thathe that knew no sin. That's the
Lord Jesus Christ was made sin.All of our your dirty, rotten sins,
from the day you're born and theday you die, your tinies to
your greatest sins. They didn't justcome on Jesus and as blood washed him

(48:57):
away. He did do that,but they also went into Jesus and he
was turned into all of our sins, all of your sins. Folks.
If that didn't get an up closeand personal I don't know what it is.
He became sin because he loved youthat much. The Bible says that
he's long suffering, not willing thatany should perish, but that all should
come to repentance. He did thatbecause he loved you that much. Folks.
He was turning the sin. Hetook all your sin and gave you

(49:21):
all his righteousness. Because you getall his good and he got all your
bad. I mean, can youget a better deal? And that you
can't. That takes care of yoursin problem. You got another problem.
It's called death, and the deaththey're talking about here in the Bible is
called the second death. That meanswhen you die, you go to hell
in the second death because you nevergot the second birth. If you get

(49:43):
the second birth, it trumps thesecond death and you can never know the
second death. The second birth iswhen you're your inner being, your soul,
your spirit are born again. Youget a new birth. It's also
called the new birth in the Bible. That new birth means that you're dead
and Dion's it has now become fullyalive. You have a new birth.
God wants you to have that,and you need that to go to heaven.

(50:06):
Jesus provided that for you when hedied on the cross for all your
sins and rose from the dead.When he rose from the dead, he
took care of your death problem bywinning for you his free gift of resurrection,
everlasting life. It's all yours inone great package. The moment,
with childlike faith, you believe thatthat is really true for you, and
you believe with all your heart.How do you believe with all your heart?
You gotta repent, folks. Repentance, it is vital. Repentance is

(50:29):
when you believe with all your heart. You're fully convinced that you're just not
good enough. You're so dirty androtten. There's no way you can ever
figure out how to get to heaven. There's no way you can figure out
how to pay for your sins orovercome hell. It's just no way.
You're just not that good. Whenyou really come clean and you really see
that as truth, because it istruth for you, you just repented.
It is not an action. It'snot saying some kind of prayers or flagellating

(50:52):
yourself, are turning from your sins, or repenting of your sins. All
these things that do not accurately describerepentance. The word Greek word plain and
simply means change. Your mind.The word is methanoia. Change your mind.
But you gotta know what do Ichange your mind about what I just
said before? You believe maybe therewas something good on you, maybe you
could help God out. No youcan't, so forget it. Forget it.

(51:12):
The greatest sinners in Jesus and Stategot that, and they were the
best followers he had, the greatreligious crowd. The Bible thumpers were the
ones who never got it. Theyturned on him. They're the ones who
murdered him. Eventually, though theydid. There was a great revival among
that religious crowd. But the firstgreat followers really were the great centers of
Jesus's day. They knew they wouldnever be good enough. Well, folks,
have you've never done this before?Do it now? You know?

(51:35):
The Bible says now today is aday of salvation. You may not get
tomorrow. Like the old country preachersaid, don't wait till it's too late.
Well, folks, it is nottime for us to go into our
chaplain ba bah watchman on the wall, where we just take a brief moment
to remind you about Jesus coming back, because he's coming back soon, I
mean really soon, folks, todaywe're going to talk about ghosts and spirits

(51:58):
and devils because it's one of thepredictions that there would be a great increase
in demonic activity. And I believethat's the source of our ghost stories.
Devils that come to that are onthis earth, are come to this earth.
Many of them are actually in heaven. The Bible says, our battle
is in the heavenlies, in thehigh places. Satan's up there fighting with
God right now, but in theend, God's going to kick him out

(52:20):
for good, and he'll never beable to go back to heaven. He
doesn't go, I don't think hegoes into the heaven, you know,
into the gates. But he's rightit there on the ramparts, slugging it
out with God, and they meetand they have talks and everything else.
Read the Book of Job you'll seeit. And so he's finally kicked out
for good. And the Bible sayshe comes to this earth with great wrath
because he knows his time, andcharity falls like a lightning bolt. Folks,

(52:43):
aren't we seeing those kind of signsin the heavenlies right now? Let
me tell you, folks, it'sclose. It's so close. If you're
not ready, you better get ready. You need a bunker, you need
a place to hide because it's gonnaget bad on this earth. And I'm
gonna tell you right now, thegreatest bunker you can ever get is manufactured
by none other than Jesus Christ ManuAction Company. So go to Jesus.
Let him be your bunker, Lethim be your safe house, and no

(53:05):
matter what happens on this earth,you're gonna be okay. Trust him with
all your heart right now. Ifyou've never done it before, to do
it right now. We'll focus thetime for us to close. As we
close with a mind sat Martin singinga creol goodbye and God bless you all
out there. Does this have tobe the end of the night? I

(53:25):
love you. In the paymal land, I can see across the billion stars.
Let you we can fall see it'sthe song time. I suppose you

(53:50):
can call it a crap if wetake just leave it alone.