S2E2 | Embracing Gratitude and Failure with MMA Coach Ed Lofts - Time with Tim Fletcher

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My mom phoned me one day.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
She's walking down the road and she said, something's different,
and I don't know what it is, but I think
I'm understanding. And she said, I walked past a person
and they made eye contact, and normally she would just
look directly at the floor, and she said that I
walked past this person and I made eye contact. And

(00:22):
it's the first time in my life that I've walked
down the street and not felt ashamed of myself.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Welcome. I'm Andy Carlson and you're listening to the Time
with Tim podcast. Each episode, we explore the impact of
complex trauma through the personal journeys of our guests. Along
the way, we'll connect with experts and individuals who share
their unique perspectives in says and practical tools to help
you on your healing journey. Let's take this time to

(00:52):
learn together. Welcome Today, I'm joined by Ed Lah. His
story is as inspiring as it is intense. With seven
world kickboxing titles and over two decades in martial arts,
Ed has dedicated his life to helping others break through
their barriers, both in sport and in life. His work

(01:16):
spans from coaching children to training elite athletes, all with
a focus on mental resilience and self awareness. Having also
gone through Tim's LYFT program, Ed brings a unique perspective
on trauma, recovery and personal growth. Welcome, Ed. It's good
to see you today and I'm really looking forward to
dive into your journey with you.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's nice to see again, Andy.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I thought that we could start off with a couple
of lighthearted questions, and so my first question for you,
Ed is is there something what's something that's brought you
joy in the past days or weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I spoke about this with somebody else they would
they There was a moment a couple of days ago where
somebody who's very dear to me, they asked me if
I practice gratitude And I kind of said not in
the way that everybody else that is professing it on
Facebook and Instagram and all these different posts about being

(02:16):
grateful all the time. Like practicing gratitude, it should be
something that when something comes along that you should be
grateful for. Is not something that you would practice. It's
an experience that you have to be grateful. Like jumping
in a swimming pool, you get wet whilst you're swimming,
and that it's an experience, and then when you get out,

(02:39):
you slowly dry off and the gratitude disappears.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
And it was a moment.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I was actually riding a motorcycle at quite high speed
down a very nice English country lane and the sun
was shining behind me, and it was shining directly through
a blossom tree, and then there was a gust wind
that blew this very pretty pink blossom off the tree

(03:08):
and everything just went into slow motion and the blossom
flew across the road, the carve on the motorcycle, everything
just connected all at one point and there was contentment,
there was joy, there was relaxation, and it all culminated
in just in a single moment that felt like it

(03:30):
was an entire lifetime and that it was. It was
a really poignant moment and it made me, actually it
made me say, like, that's what gratitude is. It is
the experience. But yeah, that's I hope that answers that question.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, yeah, no, I like that as you're describing that
I can go through that experience like I'm feeling that
that sense. I'm going along with you, and so yeah,
I hear what you're saying in a little bit. A
lot of times we can. It's like we put in
the reps on gratitude where we were sitting down in
a room and maybe just saying it and trying to
feel it. But what you're saying like being in an

(04:10):
experience that you're in and just really kind of I'm
trying to think of the word like recording that memory,
recording that instant being with, not recording, but like just
really being with that instant in gratitude. Yeah. Yeah, So
this this question I have, I'm really excited to hear
your answer for it. If if you could have any

(04:31):
fictional or historical character as your sparring partner for a day,
who would you choose?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
And why are we talking physical sparring or intellectual sparring or.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Oh you know, I was I was thinking I was
thinking physical. But if I'll let you since I didn't
delineate that you can, I'll let you answer the question
however you prefer, I.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Would have to say, Charlie Chaplin, mm hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
But just.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
So I think so, first of all, we need to
define sparring because I have this big thing where beating
the crap out of each other isn't sparring. So sparring
is the motions or movements of combat, depending what type
of combat, whether it be fencing, boxing, kickboxing, jiu jitsu.

(05:30):
So it would be the the motions or movements of
combat without so without heavy blows, so that the motion
of the thing you're doing minus the heavy blows. Therefore
it should be like a conversation.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It should go back.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's like I talk about it like playing catch with
a kid. You wouldn't throw the ball full full power
at a child unless you've got some serious issues. But
people do that in sparring quite often, and they it
means that they're not really sparring. They're either bullying someone
or they're being bullied, or they're in a fight and
they don't even know. So sparring should be play and

(06:13):
it should be akin to play and catch or a conversation.
And yeah, so I would like that with Charlie Chaplin.
The other person that just popped into my head was
Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Maybe interesting, Interesting why Charlie Chaplin and Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
So Charlie Chaplin particularly because of how he could convey.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Information and what I would class as attention.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
So it's all the data without words, and sparring is
a conversation without words. So I'm pretty sure that from
that interaction with possibly trying chaplain, I would learn something valuable. Yeah,
maybe about how to fake people better or position yourself

(07:08):
or posh posture in a way that can give off
a signal.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah. He was a master of his ability to.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Convey a message without words, and I think that's that's big.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, and kind of what you said earlier about play
as well. When I think of Charlie Chaplin, like he's
he's conveying that, but I always get the sense of
him just playing and really exploring and enjoying his environment.
And so I think it really fits with with how
you're defining spiring. Yeah. Yeah, and so that was that

(07:46):
was actually really inspect unexpected for me to hear. I'm glad.
I'm really glad that that you went in that direction.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Have you had like, what's a strange or unexpected advice,
I bit of advice that you've ever received in your journey.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
I've talked about this one before, I say, because I
always have to think about how to phrase it. I
got I once had it pointed out to me by
a very very close coach of mine that I had
dropped my ethics on the floor. Imagine like if you
dropped your wallet and somebody said, oh, you've dropped your wallet.

(08:30):
M They just turned around to me and said, he
gave you a lesson in ethics, and then I was
looking on the floor for my ethics. I was like,
I've dropped them. Where have they gone? And I went
I apologized immediately because I realized that I didn't understand
what they meant. I knew they were correct that in

(08:55):
the very instant there was.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
The trigger of.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
So the person in question is called Ido Porto, and
he's an absolute amazing human being. It was what he
would call limbic friction, which is being triggered.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
So this, this.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Urge came up with inside me, an emotional charge that
wanted to make me try to defend why I hadn't
dropped my ethics. But I knew I had, so there
was there was no argument to be had. It was
I was learning a lesson and I needed to accept
the lesson, and if I fought against it by justifying

(09:39):
it and reasoning with it, then I wouldn't have learned
a lesson.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
So I apologize immediately.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I went away for the rest of the like we
were still interacting throughout the day. But then I thought
I was going for all these different things. Was he
mad at me as he done it? And he wasn't
mad at me, He wasn't annoyed with me. He was
just giving me a very valuable lesson. And I've mentioned
it to him several times since that. It was a
really valuable lesson because I thought I knew about morals

(10:05):
and ethics, and I thought I used them all the time,
But then that day I realized that just because you
know about them isn't practicing them, And then it's all
it's all part of the practice.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah. Yeah, when you when you're talking about these moral
and ethics, it sounds kind of like you're, yeah, your
internal boundaries, your internal morals. Yeah, and yeah, with that
Olympic friction, how how did you resolve that? So it
sounds like you outwardly kind of immediately understood and went

(10:37):
in this direction, but like internally, like how did you
resolve that Olympic friction? The trigger that was going on
inside of you?

Speaker 2 (10:46):
So I used the analogy to think through it of
how they make a samurai sort they heat the metal
and then they fold it one hundred or a thousand times,
and the more folds, the sharper the sword can become.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So what I allowed myself to do was to be
heated up.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
And what normally happens with most people is the limbic
friction builds up and it causes anger and they take
it out. They snap at the other person in defense.
Today I was riding a motorcycle and there was a
road shut. The road I was on was fine to
go down, and somebody was turning into the road I

(11:32):
was on and they were in the wrong. They literally
could have killed me. As they cut across the front.
I had to skid the bike. And then they jumped
to They jumped to their own defense, and I had
to say to the person, you're in the wrong, you're
driving dangerously. But nothing was going in because they jumped
to anger that they knew they were wrong. They were embarrassed,

(11:55):
they were their shame was triggered and they started screaming
and shouting, and I just had to say to them, look,
I'm having a great day.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
I'm riding my motorbike.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
You're having a bad day and you're in the wrong,
so go away and have the rest of your bad
day whilst I enjoy my day.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
And this is it.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's taking that initial anger, this emotional response that is.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
It will heat you up. Like when people are angry.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
They physically get hotter, they start to sweat, you perspire.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
The anger is.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
An emotion is filled with adrenaline sometimes and the courts
of us both. So that heat's got to go somewhere.
And what's it for. Do we turn it into vicious
words that can burn somebody else's in a piece of way,
or do we take it and we fold it into
something new that can be wielded whenever we need it.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
And that's what I did. I sat and I.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Researched ethics. I wrote about them. I reread what I'd
written about. I understood what I've done wrong, so I
reflected on the actual instance to not let that same
thing happen again, because then you're learning from your mistake
and uh, And it helped me develop in a in
a different direction that I wouldn't have gone in without

(13:16):
without that lesson.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
It sounds like you put a lot of our time
and effort into developing that ethics, developing like a moral
a moral will, and learning how to how to stick
with it, and then how to how to look at
yourself when you have lapses.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Like with this, people kind of go you you work
so hard on yourself and you put yourself through all
these different things and you kind of go into things
full on, and I'm like, well, that's why I'm happy.
Mm hmm, like that I'm not doing it for in
an altruistic fashion. Like if you concentrate on working on yourself,

(14:05):
you will develop skills that you're proud of. You'll develop
a person that you're comfortable to be inside with kind
of thing internally and externally. And it's not like people say, oh,
love yourself, and it's like, okay, well some of us
aren't people that deserve to be loved in terms of

(14:27):
our actions and our behaviors. So everybody, we all started
off the same way. But when I do things to
myself that are detrimental to me, then it's like chopping
myself down. I'm bringing myself down a peg or two.
And it could be the inner critic. It could be
berating ourselves internally in a fashion that if somebody else

(14:52):
overheard us doing it, they would say that it's abusive.
If it was a partner or a friend, it would
be classed as coercive control and abuse, but because we're
doing it to ourselves, it's like, oh, he's just tough
on himself or she's tough on herself kind of thing.
So I think if you start to really go okay, well,
how do you make yourself happier? Especially if you're a parent.

(15:14):
I suppose with kids around and stuff, If you're happier,
those kids will be happier themselves because you're not going
to give them a hard time and they're going to
see the modeling from their parent that they are living
a happier life. So it's very selfish of me to
be working on myself all the time, I think in
a positive way.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
You know, I really like this line, and so I
want to want to detour by staying by staying in it,
so because I think this is an area that a
lot of people with complex trauma run into difficulty with
and just kind of that that inner ethics, the inner
moral and so it's you know, I don't want to

(15:56):
eat that kind of ice cream, but I do. I
don't want to have that year, but I do. I
don't want to sleep with that person, but I do.
I want to run three miles, but I don't. And
so can you talk about, like, was there a time
in your life when you struggled with these inner ethics,

(16:18):
and like how do you get to that point where
you can kind of recognize the benefits on the other
end of it, such that you that you do stick
with the ethics and such that you do follow through
to get to the point where you've come to today.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, So your question, I think is based in instant
gratification versus procrastination and when to make yourself do the
thing you don't want to be doing. So what I
always say is, if somebody is seeking instoa gratification all

(17:01):
the time, the donut, the ice cream, the promiscuity, the
sleeping with people that you shouldn't sleep with, doing all
these things, they're doing it because of how they feel.
And if you knew somebody was frightened of a spider

(17:23):
and you take a spider to that person, you are
abusive because they have an internal fear, so their physical
body is frightened of the spider and you're forcing them
to go near it. Whereas if somebody has the same
reaction to their own emotion, so they don't like to

(17:45):
feel the stress of paying all the bills and doing
the paperwork at home, or even putting the bins out
or tidy in their bedroom. When somebody forces them to
do the thing that scares them, that's abusive. But then
it's saying to them, Okay, do they need to be

(18:05):
abused in order to get it done or is there
any easy and nicer way of doing it? And I
think that's that's the underline of that question. It's like, Okay,
I made myself run a marathon with no formal marathon
training like most people trained for sort of eighteen weeks
or even longer building.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Up to it.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Unfortunately, I had the flu. I couldn't do the training
for it at all. I was in bed, like completely
incapacitated for a couple of weeks. I did one run
of twenty miles and then ran the marathon. And it's like,
I can make myself do that. But then for a
year I suffered for it. I depleted my energy systems,

(18:51):
my legs didn't recover for a very long time. And
then that is is a form of self sabotage, and
it's a form of abuse to yourself. But our society
we celebrate people that can do that type of thing
like it if somebody like that, the David Goggins of societies,

(19:13):
like he's running himself into the ground, his knees are
shot to pieces. What happens if he stops? How does
he actually feel when he doesn't do all of those
crazy things all the time and he just sits still.
Because that's when the emotions come up and the things
that we're scared of, and then when to avoid those emotions,
then we run towards the instant gratification of the donut

(19:37):
or the relationship with people. And it's it's avoiding being
in the present. And that's that's where I got to
with it. It's kind of let's let's see how do
we really feel right now if we're being honest with ourselves,
which then leads you back to the other question about
if you've worked on yourself, then being in at present

(20:00):
is a nice place to be.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
I like the clarity that you bring with that kind
of both that there's a lot that society expects that's abusive,
but also that that inner critic, the way we abuse ourselves,
and that that course of control, as you said, who
if the inner critic is all. You know, where do

(20:25):
you find that that firm kind of guiding strength of
this is this is a healthy thing I want to
be doing and and moving towards that that healthy thing
rather than U utilizing the inner critic.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
If they.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
So, I think, so, I think. The question that I
have with that is, you know, when we have that
inner critic, and you've talked about it being like abusive
and course of control, Uh, how do we find or
build the voice inside of us that may be a calmer, gentler,
but still firm voice or an unyielding voice to meet

(21:08):
those that that ethics, that internal ethics, the morals such
that we you know, so that we do go and
run train for even a five k if not a marathon,
that we go out and do the things that are
healthy for us that may have long term benefits. But
in this instant gratification world, so different, so difficult to

(21:29):
do something for a long term benefit versus versus going
for that indulgence.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
So I would start with identification. So if we have
an inner critic, first of all, when's it being vocal
and what is it being vocal around or about?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
And then we would say.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, well, let's use our skills of observation to actually observe.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Is it correct?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
And if it isn't correct, then why do we listen
to it in the first place. That is basically that's
the process I would go through, and if you started there,
we would say, okay, well, every time I go to

(22:28):
do something, I'll give you an example.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Every time we go to do something.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
That I have a chance at failing and there's a
possibility I might fail. Instead of failing, I mess around,
so I don't take it seriously. Even though it's something
I want to achieve, I'm going to mess around instead
of taking it seriously. And if I mess around and
I fail, it's because I was messing around and I
didn't really care.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But what if we.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Fully engage in something and say, okay, this means something
to me, So I'm going to achieve whether I fail
or not. I'm going to put my all in and
I'm going to achieve what I achieve. And then you
make a mistake and then suddenly you hear I'm stupid,
I'm dumb.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Why do I always fail? What's the point of even trying?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
And it just goes round around in a circle in
our heads and then we say, okay, well, who told me?
Who was it that told me that failing is bad?
Because like I personally have failed, I've failed physically on
things tasks before, I've I've dropped motorcycles and smashed them

(23:37):
to pieces. I've crashed cars by accident. I've stubbed my
toe by not paying attention. I've bitten my tongue. Like
all of these things are simple things where it's a
failure physically, like a reaction wasn't quick enough and I
was actually I was a Kickboxing World Championships once my

(23:59):
instructors daughter was a toddler and she tripped over and
I've dived to try to capture before she tripped, but
I missed.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
I didn't get there quick enough.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
She hit her head and she she's now got a scar,
which she's like twenty years old now, but she's got
a little scar. And I remember the day she got it,
and I felt awful. I felt like I was a
failure as a human being because I didn't save this
kid from hitting their head. But all of these things
are just bits of evidence, and if we examine them

(24:30):
and we say, okay, well, why is it bad to fail?
Like human beings? We always say about nobody's perfect. I
absolutely hate the saying when nobody's perch. It's like, maybe
we were designed to fail, but maybe we were designed
to keep trying after we failed, and maybe as long

(24:51):
as we were existing, we are perfect. It's perfection is
not something that we're going to get in terms of
our life is going to be ideal. But if we're
in a situation and we can keep moving forwards and
we build the resilience, there is a design which allows

(25:12):
us to keep moving forwards and understand ourselves better. And
I think it all starts back with what we just
said about so identifying it, listening to it, articulate it
to ourselves, learn to explain it to other.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
People, talk about it.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
And if we can go through that process, we start
to become familiar. So I identification of the inner critic,
become familiar with it. When's it talking to me? What's
it saying? Has a person in my past said those
same things to me? And I taken them on board

(25:51):
and now it's my voice, but they're living through me
like a mouthpiece. And it's so identification familiarity, and once
we've become familiar with it, we can catch it, and
the more times we catch it, the more chances we've
got of making a change to it. And know it's
a big, long explanation.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, No, I like that. I think there's there's a
piece of that that I really resonate with. I think
you stated in a different way than I normally do.
But coming to that place that life is about learning, Uh,
you know when when life, if life is about being
perfect and being perfect the first time, we take away
all opportunity to to learn and to actually grow into change,

(26:38):
and it makes it a lot harder to try new things.
But if life is about failure and then getting up again,
and then failure and then getting up again, if that
becomes a big part of the goal, then there's nothing
there's almost there's nothing to lose if your goal is
to to fail over and over again, and you're essentially
on that same path as having relearned how to huddle

(27:01):
learn again. I appreciate I really appreciate the the explanation
and the example you give there.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
I think the one bit that I'd add to it
as well is if we fail ten times and then
we succeed on the eleventh, succeeding means more to us,
whereas if you go to do something even if you
even if it's very difficult what you've done, but you
achieve it on the first try, it has less value,

(27:31):
and that the value comes in the meaning that the lessons.
So if we can do things many times and fail
but safely, like normally when we do when we fail
reaching a goal, setting a goal, getting up and cleaning
our teeth in the morning. Anytime there's these type of failures,

(27:52):
we be that's where the inner critic comes in. And
where I personally think the inner critics should come in
is the opposite side. So it's when I succeed that
in a critic should then defend us. It should say like, Okay,
you've succeeded. Now I'm gonna allow you some time to party, celebrate,

(28:15):
find some joy, experience the gratitude that we talked about earlier.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
But then it should then.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Get us back online, like there's I know some people
have massive celebrations about the tiniest little things, but then
they get stuck there and then it's like they're they're
not that they're not pushing forwards anymore because you don't
have to push for like you can just be in
a space by yourself not doing anything. But it's about

(28:43):
how you feel. And I know people some people sit
still and feel awful and that's my my thing that
I try to help you is to feel better just
existing and that Tim's definitely done that I think as
well for people.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
But yeah, the the.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
The more times we fail, when we finally succeed, then
it really has some meaning.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
I think. I think there's there's a little bit that
that's coming out in what you're saying as well, And
you know, it's it's been helpful in my own journey
kind of shifting from an achievement model, a destination model,
to a to a journey model, and to to you know,

(29:28):
embracing the action, embracing the effort and being able to
accept and find that joy in this moment. And it
sounds like that's there's there's something coming out in what
you're saying that that really resonates with that. I was
wondering if you could speak about that more, maybe shifting
from a.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, it's quite poignant, excuse me, the cat is going crazy.
I'll put him out of Basically, it's it's playing as
an explorer, so I see myself as an explorer on
a treasure hunt. And I hate it when people say

(30:08):
you need to live outside your comfort zone. You definitely
don't want to live outside your comfort zone. Being outside
your comfort zone is being in your sympathetic nervous system.
It's like you're triggered, you're aware of everything, and you
are in danger if you're not in your comfort zone. Obviously,
once you investigate and you can identify and become familiar

(30:32):
with those things outside your.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Comfort zone, your comfort zone can grow as well.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
So I'm not saying stay in your comfort zone. But
like Indiana Jones Films as an example, he's an explorer
that everybody knows. The film always starts off at the
university or at his home in the office, and then
he goes out in the world, saves some type of
artifact or the world, and then at the end of

(30:58):
the film he brings the true measures that he's found
back to a safe space. And this is something that
we do on a daily basis. We go out in
the world and then we come back in and we
do that.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Even our attention does it doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
So we can be internally focused listening to the inner critic,
worrying about how we feel on the inside, and then
suddenly our attention goes outside to an external target, being
a person or a subject, and it goes between the two.
But it's really about our thoughts and the story we're

(31:37):
telling ourselves internally, and that is definitely affected by the
external environment. And I think a lot of the time
people forget as an explorer, so we could explore the world,
we can create maps, but who's got the maps for
exploring internally? And have they even mapped the territory?

Speaker 3 (32:00):
You know? With with speaking about exploring, kind of what
comes up for me and then all all sorts of
exploring is like a four to a six year old
and how a child is engaging with the world where
they're they're in the present, They're not thinking about the future.

(32:24):
They may not be worried about the result of getting
the perfect stack of bricks or whatever they're doing, but
they're they're touching it, they're feeling it, they're stacking it up,
knocking it over, stacking up, knocking it over. But like that,
that attitude seems one that I see a lot in

(32:45):
five year olds, but not as much that there's there's
some point in our life where we lose that exploration
mindset and then moved to maybe this more goal oriented mindset.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Do you think that maybe the.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Position where we lose it and we change to a
goal orientated mindset is when we find out we couldn't
be the astronaut or the firefighter and it I would investigate.
I'm not saying this is what it is or what
it isn't, but I would investigate, Okay, did we get
did we get pressed into a mold by our parents

(33:29):
or by the people around us in our environment that
wasn't The mold wasn't even bigg enough for us to
even grow in, so we were already bigger than that.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
We were thinking.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Astronaut like climbing a tree just to get as high
as possible in the tree, and the parents says, don't
do that, it's not safe. You're like, but the parents
worried that you're going to fall, and they push these
limitations on us, not realizing that the child doesn't have

(34:01):
the same limitations as the parent. And there's kids at
school that don't have the same limitations.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
As the teacher.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
But the teacher thinks that that child needs to learn English,
whereas that child could be the best electrician in the world.
And cope with the minimal amount of English to get
through the course. Like I've got friends that run very
big businesses that have got no GCSE results from school

(34:29):
and things like that.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
So there's that.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
If we were going to explore but we got pushed
into this tiny little mold that we were already too
big for, then we're going to be all bent out
of shape trying to fit in the mold. And that's
where I think then it's like we've learned that we
shouldn't even try to be the thing we wanted to
because we could fail. And we've learned that because we

(34:56):
could fail, it might embarrass our parents, and there's no
point doing that because if they get embarrassed, the consequences
will be dire.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Mm hmm hmm. Yeah. And there's I think there's a
full circle in what you're saying as well too, going
back to talking about that inner critic, uh, and the
development of that inner critic is all of a sudden,
Now we're focused on our limitations and we're being bent
out of shape. And you know, what you just described

(35:25):
to me sounds is one of the places where that
inner critic starts to develop, and where we focus on
those limitations. Yeah, I don't. I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed this
this direction. I want to I want to shift directions
with you here, just to get a little bit of
maybe some of your history. And so I remember we

(35:46):
spent two or three weeks together in the Lift program. Yeah,
and your your life story has always sounded uh. I
felt like I was in a car chase while listening
to you, and your store is always sound like they
came out of an action movie. And so I was
wondering if you could take us back to maybe one

(36:07):
or two defining childhood moments that shaped who you are today.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
So whenever I talk to people about my life, I
feel like they believe I'm lying about it, like because
of all the different strange things that have happened to
me and the people that I've bumped into along the way,
Like it just doesn't sound real, and for me that

(36:37):
it shows me how surreal it feels to me. So
I quite often pull other people in when I'm telling
a story, I pull someone else into confirm that it
is a real story. I'm not saying I don't exaggerate sometimes,
but I think any good story needs a bit of
an emphasis on certain occasions.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
So a good one, just.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Again from the complex trauma perspective, with a story that
was pretty bad and I didn't realize how much it
had affected me till probably just a couple of years back.
But so we were not very well off when we
were kids and our family. My dad had left and

(37:25):
so it's my mum's single mum and there was my
older brother, myself and my younger sister all lived in
the house with my Mom's quite a big house but
with a bottom flat like apartment.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I think it's the term that you guys would do.
So it's the.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Flat the bottom level of a big house and there's
two other apartments above us, and that it used to
be a big house that was connected and somebody renovated
it into split it into sections. So we we had
an electricity key. So instead of paying monthly if you
missed monthly payments in England, they give you a key
that you would go and charge up. So you can

(38:04):
take money to a shop where they can charge the
key and you basically give them money.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
So my mum said to me, can.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
You go and get the electricity and she gave me
the key and she gave me six pound coins.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I've got my BMX. I was probably.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Eight or nine years old, and I've ridden from where
we lived, probably two miles into the town center. But
I went onto the seafront and I went past the
Hastings Pier, which is sticks out into the sea. There's
some arcades there, there's like rides and things, and as

(38:44):
I was riding past, it connects to the other story.
So there's people that say don't talk to strangers. But
I had a pushbike that got stolen, and as I
was riding along the seafront, there was a man on
the same pushbike that I had. Obviously I had the

(39:04):
kids version, but this older man had had the adults
version of the bike. And as I drove past, I
literally turned around to him and I said, nice bike.
Not it was just a fleeting thing, but it was
because I got triggered, like that was my bike and
my brother borrowed it with his friends and it got stolen,
and it was like my best thing in the world

(39:25):
at the time. So I'd got this crappy old BMX
and I was driving along and the guy that I
said nice bike too, then started following me, and I
didn't think anything of it. When I said it, I
didn't really even say it to him. I just sort
of said out loud, nice bike. But he started following me,
and then he was propositioning me, saying like like, oh,

(39:46):
you can come to the house and you can earn
money and this type of thing.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
He was obviously a pedophile, There's no two ways about it.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
He followed me for about a mile into the town center,
and then when he saw that we he didn't have
much money and I was putting the key in the
meet and paying the pound coins, he basically started to
double down to say like, oh, I've got these odd
jobs at my house. You can come and help and
I'll pay you some money. And I was just like
my mum had prepped us for this, because she was

(40:15):
pretty good at this. I think I just told him
to leave me alone, go away, but he persisted all
the way back again, back to the same spot. And
then luckily there was a gentleman there from what we
would call like sea cadets, which is like he's like
army training but for the navy kind of thing. We

(40:36):
just did it now and again as kids, and luckily
that there was an adult there just stood near that
I knew, so I sort of said to him, can
you get rid of this guy? He's following me? And
he went and had a word with him, and the
guy cleared off. But then once the guy had left,
I just remember being I was I had to ride

(40:56):
about another mile back home, and I remember being absolutely
petrified because I was like looking over my shoulder is
he still following me?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Is he still following me? And I got home. I
was completely safe.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Got home and I told my mum and the police
came around the house.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
My mom found the police.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Plice came around the house and they had like this
big folder and they said, okay, is the guy in
the book?

Speaker 1 (41:20):
And I found him in the book. I said, that's
the man there.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
And the police said, like, at any one time, there's
up at the This was like nineteen ninety or something,
I think, and the police said, at any one time
there was like up to ten or fifteen pedophiles all
waiting on the pier for somebody to get lost from
their parents and this type of thing. Whether that's true

(41:46):
or not, I don't know. That's what the policeman said
at the time. And then a few months after that,
we saw the same guy quite often. He was like
round the area he used to park his bike up
and I recognized the bike, and my mum confronted him
one day and started shouting at him and calling the place.
And but what that then did later on was so
I didn't connect the two. But say, if I was

(42:09):
driving in my car and somebody gets too close and
they're towelgating, I would get this furious anger.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
I would be like that, somebody's right on my shoulder.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
And it then occurred to me one day that the
reason I get so annoyed is because this guy was
on my shoulder and he was following me for miles
and miles and miles, and it's disgusting, like where was
anybody to help properly, Like God knows what could have
happened if I hadn't been prepped by my mum to

(42:43):
sort of do the right thing at the right time
and stuff. But then also, it's my parents fault because
an eight year old child shouldn't be having those responsibilities.
So it's my dad's fault, it's my mum's fault that
I was in that situation in the first place, and
it's had rep cushions. Now I still get like if

(43:03):
I hadn't identified it, and somebody had tailgated me so
close in my car that one day I got out
and had road.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Rage at them and things.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
There's if you don't have the awareness of where that
feeling comes from. And so what was happening is anytime
somebody was following me in a car or behind me,
possibly I was getting an emotional flashback of the exact
same emotions that had that day and I hadn't connected
the two. So I was having a feeling emotionally of

(43:35):
fear and anger and sort of hatred and disgust for
this type of behavior, and it was being projected onto
anybody that was coming up behind me kind of thing,
and it literally could have ended up with me jumping
out of my car and caving someone else's car in

(43:57):
or blowing up if I hadn't connected the two.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
So that that's a very very big.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Traumatic event that happened to me as a kid, that
could blow over to be an adult kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
That the other one that fits with it. So I
said about the bike that I had that got stolen.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Mark, So that bike a kid, I don't know as
a kid, if you ever had a bike and it's
kind of like it's your mode of transport, it's your
freedom technically around the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we love our bikes.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
And at the time, I'd had about three or four
bikes stolen, so it didn't matter what I did, whether
the bike was safe in the garden, someone came in
the garden and stole it, whether my brother's friend borrowed
my bike they locked it up at the swimming pool
and it got stolen. Then I another day, my mom says,

(44:51):
can you go to the shop and get some milk.
I've gone to the shop, put my bike outside the
shop where everybody puts their bikes, and I'm a kid.
I walked back out the shop and someone's riding off
on my bike and I'm screaming stop that guy.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
And the greengrocer at the time, he's a really nice man.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
He owned a local grocery store, and he's a huge
look like a farm he's a really big guy. And
that he just let the person ride past on my bike.
And all these adults were petrified of stopping these people.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
And putting their foot down.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
With pedophiles and thieves, it's like that they're things that
are not nice and they are in our environment, so
we need people to educate and protect on this and
where were they when I was growing up because I
didn't see any.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
So then.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
What then happens? Now?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Any time I lose something, like if I put something
down and I come back to it and it's not there,
I get a feeling and emotional flashback that it's been stolen.
And there is like a moment where I have to
tell myself, hold on, nobody's broken into your house and
moved your keys. You've put them somewhere, and there's this

(46:06):
This is where the inner critic bit can can kick
in quite a bit because if you catch yourself and
you go, okay, I know where this comes. This this
emotional feeling of it's been stolen. It comes from the
amount of things I had that got taken off me
as a kid that were stolen. So then it means
that in the environment, things can be stolen. So you

(46:28):
do have to look after things. But when it's happening
with your cup of tea that you've just put down
and then you've moved it on the other side and
you look look one side and it's over there, but
you still get this emotional feeling if it's been stolen,
then there's definitely work to be done. And those two
things have affected me massively as an adult. But because

(46:50):
now I understand them, so I can identify them and
I'm familiar with them, it's actually now funny. It's become
It's come to the point where if I put something
down and I think, hold on, it's been stolen, I
go to myself, haha, someone stolen it, because I know
that they haven't, And then I can go and find
it wherever I've left it.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, they're two big stories for me.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, so you've done a lot of work. That's that's
rewritten kind of not just that I was going to
say that the script, but it's like, you know, we
have that trauma stored in our body, so it just
kind of burst out again. Who So it sounds like
that you grew up in an pretty unsafe and a
scary area if there's a lot of theft and pedophiles

(47:38):
and just kind of like dangerous people around.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah. It's really interesting though because the area I go
it wasn't very affluent. Hastings is Hastings, England, East SUSEX.
It's not a very nice place in terms of opportunities
and things like this. But there are some really nice people,
but they're mixed in with people who have been traumatized.

(48:02):
You've had horrible things to happen to them. And I
thought it was okay, Is it just Hastings where this
has happened. But I've been to places that are rich
and the same things are happening, and it's the differences.
In Hastings. The bad people will tell you they're bad people,
the good people will kind of just look after you

(48:26):
a bit, and there's everything in between. But it's a
very small, concentrated place. So like growing up, I saw
two policemen have to fight somebody of a knife.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
I've seen.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Like car accidents, like seen people get hit by cars,
just general fights.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
There was.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
I can't remember what the kids have got a term
for it now, where they basically set up getting somebody
to go to a location and then they fight them
as a gang where it's like five on one.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
That type of thing was happening. There was.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Robberies, like yeah, all sorts of stuff. So it's not
but I think it's everywhere now. I don't think anywhere
is any different. I just think I was very aware
of it. At the time.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you've become very aware of
some of the different traumas and able to place it
back to where you know, where you got it from.
And so a lot of us, you know, we carry
this unspoken trauma or maybe unaware that we're reacting. But
so I was wondering, kind of segueing a little bit here.

(49:45):
So was it these experiences that led to you into
martial arts. Was it a form of like a coping mechanism,
an escape, or what brought you into martial arts?

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It was it was kind of an accident.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
So I was always interested in China, like the shooling monks,
this type of thing. I remember asking my mum one
day to buy me green tea bags of jasmine in
because that's what the monks drunk at the time, apparently,
So this is quite an unusual thing for a child

(50:20):
to be asking their parents to buy I suppose. But
the story of getting into my starts was there was
a club that opened up in the local area and
they just they were giving out flyers and we went there.
But I was more interested in enlightenment and what that
even was.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
So there was.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
There wasn't a place you could go to learn about it,
and it was it David Kardine in the Kung Fu
TV show back in the day.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
It was that type of.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Eastern philosophy should come hand in hand with the martial arts.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
So it was kind of.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, John Claude Van Dam and the
physical side with learning to control the body that was
that interested me. And then later on, much later on,
I stumbled across.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Edo Portal who guided me on.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Exactly what I was actually trying to achieve because it
seemed like he was doing a very similar thing at
a much more advanced level.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
How do you you know? So kind of with the
physicality and the controlling your body, but also you mentioned
the enlightenment factor the art of controlling your mind. How
has the martial arts journey influenced your your trauma journey? Know,

(52:00):
that wouldn't have been a straight path, Like what were
some of your biggest turning points in that journey?

Speaker 2 (52:07):
So feeling safe was a big part of it. And
as much as you'd like to say, well after becoming
seven times Weld kickboxing champion, you would feel physically safe
because of your ability to defend yourself The safety didn't
come from that. The safety came from the relationships I

(52:27):
built along the way with my mentors and my coaches
and the team of people that had around me that
made me feel like it didn't matter how far I fell,
they would catch me.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
And that was one of the big turning points.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
That's where the physical body started to progress because of
the feeling of safety, which is also false, but it's
a nice feeling to have sometimes.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
M H. There also has to are you familiar with
the term wind like window of tolerance?

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah? Could you like, there must be some huge benefits
to doing martial arts and I'm having that safe environment
and expanding your window of tolerance. Could you maybe talk
about how how you how you view window of tolerance,
how you view your window of tolerance, and maybe how

(53:28):
that's changed over time.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
It would be more for me. The resilience.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
So I don't mind if I'm too hot, and I
don't mind if I'm too cold. I don't mind if
I'm tired, Like if I've got to run five miles
to make weight for something, but I'm tired, I'm still
going to run it. I'm just going to do it
slower and not beat myself up. So I think the
I think what you mean by the window of tolerance

(53:56):
with my understand of it is alastatic loads. It's the
amount of stress we can take on at any one
point before the limbic friction puts us into our sympathetic
nervous system and we become triggered. So physical pain wouldn't
trigger me into a limbic response. I could still think

(54:21):
very rationally and have all my all my small amount
of intellect available whilst under physical pain. And that came
through the stretching process. So anybody that's become flexible that
wasn't like some people are naturally flexible, so they haven't
been through the same process. But if you've been through

(54:43):
the stretching process done in my starts the correct way,
you've learned how to regulate your nervous system under pain
or during pain. And then you've got obviously regulation of
the breath. Can you keep your breathing calm and slow
your right out under a stressful situation or in a
stressful environment, So all of these things would come under

(55:06):
the window of tolerance is and that's what we're talking
about about expanding our comfort zone and building resilience to
being outside our comfort zone. So these things can grow,
but it's where we start with it. It's if you
tell somebody who is suffering from anxiety and who has
got obsessive compulsive disorder that they've got to go out

(55:28):
and dig in the dig in the dirt with their
hands and they're frightened of germs, you're going to drive
that is abusive. You're going to drive that person away.
But maybe encouraging them to hold a small amount of
dirt for a certain amount of time and then wash
their hands is the right amount of exposure.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Maybe. But yeah, that's that's I don't know if that
answered your question with.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
The Yeah, I find it interesting. I like, I like
to that where you went with was this stretching, because
in a way, through that stretching, you're what you're doing
is you're stretching your limits and you're moving moment, you know,
inch by inch, moment by moment in that but like

(56:15):
also just really needing to be there and to feel
it and to experience it. And so you mentioned the
pain that comes with the stretching. Yeah, I have a
slight detour like my own window of tolerance almost I
think almost exactly a year ago, I was helping raise
a baby monkey and he would bite and scratch at

(56:36):
my nose and my ears. And when he was first
doing that, like my brain would freak out, Like my
brain would go to a place of like this is
not safe. And after a few times, what I realized
is like he was just playing. He was just having
a good time, and so I did. It's a little
bit of what you describe a little bit as doing
that identifying what's going on and then kind of talking

(56:58):
to yourself about it. What I realized is like my
brain freaked out and it was like it was like
too much, too much, you know, it's like a ten
out of a ten. Yeah, But when I was outside
of it and thinking about it, I was like, you know,
this is it's really like a two or three out
of ten, and I can handle a tour or three
out of ten. And so it was something that over

(57:20):
over time with like this this little monkey. So I
didn't do stretching, but uh, but this monkey helped me
expand my own my own window of tolerance, especially with pain.
So you mentioned with that like that for you, like
physical pain doesn't bring you into your Olympic brain at all,

(57:41):
And that's something I don't I don't think that would
be true for somebody who's not in martial arts, Like
how like how long did that take you to get
to a place where that physical pain wasn't something that
that would drive you and take your olympic brain.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
So when I say physical pain, what I don't mean
like I'm about to eat a hot coal and be
able to stay in zen kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
What I mean is.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
In an instant, I'm not going to hurt myself like
accidentally and then go into a panic situation, or I'm
not going to react in a negative fashion with anger
when I've hurt myself, like you know when people stub
their tone and they kick the dog, that type of thing.

(58:34):
So it's past that, But it doesn't mean you're not
subject to illnesses and long pain, like if you if
you've got an ache and it's there for a certain
amount of day, even if it's not a big ache
or a bruise, or you've had an accident, that can

(58:54):
wear you down very very quickly over a few days.
So you can still become irritable because of physical pain.
But it means that I have the ability to lean
into doing something which is going to be painful. It
doesn't mean that that's beneficial. It doesn't mean it's good
for you. It means having the ability provides a certain

(59:16):
amount of freedom.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
So I would be less likely to.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Seek instant gratification to avoid it than to actually go, Okay,
I've got to do something which is potentially could hurt,
but I'm going to do it anyway. That obviously comes
in quite handy when you're a professional fighter, but you
don't want to be doing that. And also, if you

(59:41):
are going to be doing it, are you being paid
adequately for the negative effect that's going to have on
you later in life? So, yeah, there's a few a
few aspects to take into consideration.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
There have there. I didn't. I didn't realize we'd go
in this in this kind of this window of tolerance direction.
Are there are there other lessons you've learned on your
martial arts journey that would have given you either attitudes
or behaviors or beliefs that that now from a trauma

(01:00:17):
and firmed perspective, have have helped you with with trauma
along the trauma healing path.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, so the the approach that I used is an
on Tim's course on the Lift Program, I I tackled
it and approached it with the same strategy I would
use from from anything now, which I love from martial arts.
So it's like it's attention, focus, concentration, self discipline and

(01:00:46):
what that does well. So attention focused, concentration, distraction and
self discipline. And if we understand that as a process,
we can apply it to absolutely anything we do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
And I believe it got me a certain set of results.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
From the Lift program from Tim versus Lift prone because
because of the information on Tim's course. But in terms
of the martial arts, I think there's a lot of
things in life which are therapeutic, but we can't get
them mixed up with therapy. So just because somebody sits

(01:01:21):
and talks to a friend, it might be therapeutic, but
it's not the same as achieving homeostasis through therapy. And
then it's then it's we have to be discriminative between
types of therapy because there's a lot of therapists out

(01:01:41):
there which are trying to rip people off. Is like,
you need a weekly session, one a week, And I
always use the analogy life is literally shoveling you. I'm
going to swear a shitload, so a shovel load of
shit every week, and the therapy that you pay eighty

(01:02:02):
pounds or eighty dollars to see once a week is
basically taking a tea spoon and sifting out one teaspoon
a week, and it's just not enough, like if you
actually wanted to deep dive and sort it out properly.
So not only do you feel better, you think clearer,

(01:02:23):
you can relax within your body, and you become happy
within your environment again. Then I think you need to
do a substantial amount with somebody who has it organized
and has a track record of recovery, and regardless of
whether people think they're traumatized or not. What Tim's courses

(01:02:46):
do is they give you a step by step guide
on how to do it. Because there's so many influencers,
there's so many self help books, there's so many therapists.
Now that they tell you what you need to do.
They can help you find out what it is that

(01:03:06):
you need to do by investigating, but then they don't
give you the map that we talked about earlier. So
they will help you explore it and then they'll go,
well that's it. Now you've explored it, and it's like, Okay,
what I've just found out is that on my map
that I've just explored, there's a cave that I don't
know what lives there, there's a monster under the bridge,

(01:03:30):
and there's a mine that needs to be excavated.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
But they don't tell you how.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I'll give you the tools. And what Tim's course did
for me was it gave me a set of missing
tools that I had to deal with the emotional state
and the emotional turmoil that was spinning around somewhere with
inside me. So the martial arts gave me physical and

(01:03:58):
mental tools, and those tools came in handy when it
came to tackling the emotional side, which I would cast
Tim as a mentor for me now as well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Yeah. I think I hope that was a good enough
explanation for that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah, Yeah, I like that analogy too. And I think
one of the key things that you said, I mean,
there are a couple of key things is really getting
the right tools and following that map and exploring it.
But then also that that one time a week is
when we live in this world of you know, shame
or flashbacks or trauma and false beliefs. I think one

(01:04:37):
one hour a week of new ideas isn't going to
shift you. And so working three or five days a
week doing like work work for yourself and on yourself
outside of that is really needed to kind of counter
all of that the inner critic beliefs, or to begin
to recognize the flashbacks. I'm glad to hear that it

(01:05:01):
that it that it had that impact on you, and
also that like kind of fitting this emotional piece is
there is there anything specific maybe that you'd be willing
to share or able to share about some of the
things that you learned with within that emotional world for yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
What happened for me was Tim's course gave me permission
two articulate my emotions in a way that other people
could understand, so that I had some complete, complete gaps

(01:05:45):
in the same way that Edo gave me the lesson
on ethics that day, and then I had to sit
down and go, hold on, I need to rethink this,
and then that led me down a better path, a
better direction, the nearest direction at the time, by following
the bread crumb that he left me. Tim's course did

(01:06:07):
the same for the emotions, and it's quite interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
So see those books there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
That shelf of books is a shelf of scientology books,
and I know they've had is it Myskovich on journals?
That's it so recently. So I had some experience with
scientology years ago. I was never a scientologist at all.

(01:06:37):
I read the books because I found it quite interesting.
And where I was I was always looking. This was
many many years back. I was looking at emotions and
how it worked and triggers and different things, and there's
a lot of information there. One of the things the
first stages of before before I found Tim's cause, it

(01:07:02):
was basically understanding that there is an ability in the
human body to be confused about emotions. Just because we
have them doesn't mean we can identify them. And if
we can't identify them accurately, they can be mislabeled. And
I think the scientologists department they would say somebody is

(01:07:26):
being mis emotional, and that would be like, we can
go on a whole another direction with the sciential I'm
not agreeing or disagreeing with any of their information. What
I'm saying is if we understand that we might need
to question our emotions and why do they come up,

(01:07:49):
then it opens up a doorway in the same way
that Edo opened up a way of me thinking a little.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Bit further about ethics.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
As soon as we think we know something, we shut
the door, whereas if we go, okay, well, we could
be mis emotional. So mis emotional would be I'm feeling
something now, but it's not accurate for the circumstance I'm in.
So somebody might say just something that you disagree with

(01:08:19):
and you erupt with anger. And then I was like, okay, well,
what is erupting with anger? And it's when you've been
triggered and a fuel has been lit, So anger erupts.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
What's anger even for?

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
And then obviously, on Tim's course, we learn, okay, it's
actually okay to be angry when injustice has happened and
somebody's overstepped a boundary. Anger is for putting your foot
down and saying, hold on, there's a boundary there. But
in my family we were told that that was assertiveness,

(01:08:56):
and there was all these different things about oh, we
need to be more assertive or or don't be rude
to somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
But if you looked what was going on behind.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
The scenes, I now see it. So we talked about
this internal map. It's like your emotions travel somewhere. So
it's ill try and see emotions like a liquid traveling
through tubes and they're meant to get somewhere. But the
way I got brought up, all the tubes have been

(01:09:26):
switched into the wrong places. So what I had to
do is that to go through and have to reroute
them all into the correct places. So first you have
to identify which tubes are which color and where is
it meant to be going. But what happens when two
of the tubes mixed together, if we mix the green
emotion with the red emotion, what comes out of it?

(01:09:49):
And it was it was one day I think you
might have been on the course of the week when
we covered shame and I basically I could not get
my head around what shame was as an emotion. So
I knew intellectually, I understood what it was in terms
of a core belief about ourselves that we're not good enough,

(01:10:12):
or that we're not worth the time or the effort
or the energy. And it's a set of core beliefs
about ourselves that are detrimental to us, that we have
about ourselves. So I was like, okay, but I don't
feel that. So I sat there and I meditated. And
when I say meditate, I don't mean meditate in the

(01:10:32):
way that other people do, where you sit and ponder existence.
I meditated on that emotion. What when do I feel shame?
How does it feel? And what happened was I went
through some shitty things that I've done in my life
and I remembered it. I allowed it to come up,

(01:10:53):
things that I shouldn't have done that weren't very nice
and did affect other people in a negative fashion. And
then suddenly, along with it, I felt the shame. And
then I was like, okay, well, whilst I'm feeling this
shame and now I know what it feels like, do I?
This is where it links in mis emotionally. When have

(01:11:15):
I felt this emotion of being ashamed of my actions?
But when I haven't done anything wrong? So when I
was in the right and I became angry because of
an injustice, and I still felt or ended up feeling
ashamed for being angry, or a shame for putting my

(01:11:36):
foot down, or a shamed for having a boundary, and
this emotional feeling of shame irrupted and I literally cried
for three hours. I sat there, and I didn't avoid
it because of the martial arts practice. I don't mind
feeling uncomfortable, so I sat sometimes my eyes open, most

(01:12:02):
of the time, I tried to keep them shut and
stay with it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
And it was as.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
If a fuel a fuel source had been lit or
was being used like a petrol tank until it had gone.
And because people said, I've had it quite a bit
now where people say, oh, but I'm going to start
crying and I'm never going to stop. That's what it
feels like. But once it's gone, it's gone. And it

(01:12:29):
doesn't mean that shame can't be retriggered, but it means
the shame you feel for yourself, the internal belief that
you aren't good enough, will disappear if you can go
into the shame. And I've explained it to a few
people how disgusting it felt, and so discussed. In that case,

(01:12:52):
it was a transformative emotion. So it changed shame into pride.
And I felt disgusted. I felt disgusted of the things
I'd done. I felt disgusted in the way that I'd
been treated, and then suddenly I realized I didn't deserve

(01:13:16):
to be treated like that. And the things that I'd
done that were detrimental to other people were my responsibility.
So my actions in that were my responsibility, but there
was a justification of those actions. I knew why I'd
made those choices, and it was to do with instant gratification.

(01:13:39):
I had to do certain things in my life to
feel better because I'd had some horrible stuff happen to me.
And it doesn't excuse it doesn't excuse what I did
in terms of the negative behaviors. I'm not going to
give you an examples. It will just make sense. But
if you go around hurting people, it's your responsibility and

(01:14:01):
you need to stop doing it because it's inadvertently also
hurting you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
But why are you doing it?

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
And if it's to do with instant gratification and you
can sit there and eventually build up enough tolerance and
resilience and yeah, like a window for tolerance, then the
shame was the answer for me. And once that had gone,
not only did extra tension in my body disappear, but

(01:14:34):
I was kind of like, Okay, I now need to
go out and live my life to see if there
are triggers that will bring that feeling back up and
it's been about two years, I think now roughly, yeah,
around about two years, I believe. And I've worked with Tim,

(01:14:55):
and I've lived my life. I've got into relationships with
people very pleasant, I've been in awkward situations and this
the feeling of that shame hasn't come back up. And
for me, I've now been able to help other people

(01:15:15):
feel the same and that that's that's thanks to Tim
and it it I don't know if I'm even articulating
it well enough, but it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
Yeah. So so for me, like I I followed that
and I think that's a it's like a beautiful story.
And it sounds in a very fortunate way that martial
arts training in the back to allow you to face
the pain, because I don't know a lot of people
who will be able to really sit with, be with

(01:15:48):
and then face a deep amount of shame for for
three hours. And so I'm really glad to hear that
that you had that experience. And and it sounds too
that there's there's a second layer of it too, where
kind of going back to the the explorer, is that
you know, once you you kind of faced it, to

(01:16:11):
have this explorer exposure at it attitude towards it as
well to to try to see it again and try
to find it in these different areas. Uh, that's that's
really powerful. I love and I love I really, I
really like the way you talk. There's a very kind
of visual Uh. I can't think of what the word

(01:16:32):
is uhetic. There's a kinetic visual, kinetic energy to to
how you describe things that that I can really resonate with.
And so you you transitioned into this at at the
end here, But you know, so now a lot of
the work that you do is is helping people break
through their mental areas and rather than just focusing on techniques.

(01:16:56):
So could you I think you've been We've been covering
a lot of it through this conversation. I'm sure a
lot of the different things that you bring, but could
you maybe walk us through how you help someone identify
and remove their own limiting beliefs.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
So, one way I would describe it is finding your edges.
So when you say finding the edges, finding the edges
when you're in a box is you're pressing against something.
But that's very different from finding your edge or finding
the edge. If you're stood on the edge of a

(01:17:32):
cliff because there's safety in a box, but you've got
to push against the wall, so there's less freedom. Not
enough freedom is damaging. And with any type of trauma,
what normally happens with people is they box themselves in

(01:17:55):
in terms of their environment.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
They shrink their environment.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
They go to the same shop, they stay in the
same room, they see the same friends, and less and
less and less until eventually they isolate completely. And that
that's the box. But then on the other flip side
of that, too much freedom, like you could never be

(01:18:17):
as free as you would be if you jumped off
a cliff. You're going to be soaring through the sky,
but eventually you're going to hit the floor. So too
much freedom is also damaging. And then that's where you've
got like if you think of that physically, mentally, emotionally,
and financially. So physically are you limited in a box

(01:18:41):
by being stuck somewhere? So people have a shoulder that
doesn't move, it's stuck in a box.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
They have a neck that can't move properly.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
And there's different compartments of our body where we end
up saying, well, this is my bad knee and this
is my good knee or that's my bad shoulder. There's
a box we're in, and then it's okay, Well, too
much freedom, Like if I had a bad accident on
my motorbike at high speed, my arm or legs coming
off and it's two free, it should still be attached.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
So somewhere in between.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
And this is where Tim's course comes in with twelve
human needs. So we all have a need to move,
but there are some kids out there that need to
move ten times more than other kids. There are some
kids out there that need to sit still. They actually
enjoy sitting still, reading a book or drawing something. So

(01:19:41):
it's physical expression and how do we do it. Do
we need to express ourselves in a box or do
we need to express ourselves freely? And where is the edges?
And then you could do the same thing mentally. Some
people only need to explore discussions on the weather, whereas
other people need to explore intellectually deep philosophy about the

(01:20:07):
human existence of consciousness and these type of things. Then
if you then say, well, emotionally, most people nowadays, if
you say how are you, they say fine? But is
it really meeting our need for freedom emotionally or are
we too much in the box, and then it then

(01:20:29):
goes through with your culture, like in England it's stiff
up a lip. If anybody says what's the matter, you
say nothing and you just carry on. And it's got
to the point in England now where you can't even
drive down the road I've got. I've got a car
and a van set outside my house, both with punctures
because the roads are in a mess and the potholes

(01:20:52):
have caused punctures on a regular basis. But in England,
because we don't complain, we just carry on, I'll get
it fixed. We won't complain to the council. And that's
where it's got to. And then the same thing financially,
like if we're in a box financially and we don't

(01:21:14):
even have enough money to live on, then we're isolated.
We're stuck because now the amount of money you have
dictates how free you are really in today's society.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Across those four platforms physical, mental, emotional, and financial, we
need to find our edges. And the edge might be
something that limits you, but the edge almost always could
be something that sets you free as well.

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
But then how much freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Do you need or how much security in the box
do you need? And that comes down to your twelve
human needs that Tim talks about.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
On his course.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
There's like this kind of a tension between too close
and two far, yeah, and finding like the healthier place
in the middle. Let me ask you know you started
talking with the physical and about movement. A lot of
people with complex trauma will either have very quick go

(01:22:17):
into a freeze response. And then many people also struggle
with dissociation and so maybe they may not be connected
to their body, or they may be meandering off into
fantasy or the future or somewhere else. And so how
do you work how would you work with people on this,

(01:22:39):
especially for people who are disconnected from their bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
So there's a couple of ways of doing it. You'd
want to set yourself a certain amount of time on
a regular basis to start to finish off a process
which you started as a child. So the body he
works on feedback. So you've seen a baby sitting in

(01:23:06):
a push in a chair highchair being fed. They they
get to a point where the baby wants to start
to feed itself and it will dig the spoon into
the yogurt and it will just put the yogurt on
its head, and then it goes for a process where
it goes, that's not my mouth, because it knows that

(01:23:26):
the yogurt wants to go in its mouth m hm,
because it's tasted it, so it has a desire or
a need to eat. So then it does it again,
and it gets a bit closer, and it eventually the
mind coordinates the body through through motor neuron patterns, and
then it knows where its mouth is.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
And we all do that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
We like, I don't remember the last time I stuck
an ice cream on my head by accident. So we
got to a certain point where we can feed ourselves.
Then it was okay, well I'm going to start crawling
and then I'm going to start walking. But there's people
in the world that can move precisely at an extraordinary level,

(01:24:16):
and there's people that only just scratch the surface of Well,
now I can eat, and now I can walk, but
they don't even run, or if they stumble at all,
they fall over. And again it is about exploring our
relationship with our physical body. But people with trauma, normally
what happens is when they start to move, the physical

(01:24:40):
pang of moving because they're so hard on themselves and
they push themselves so much they'll tend to go okay
instead of doing it in baby steps, like I'm going
to go here with the ice cream, then here, then here.
That's the mistakes, and they want to get it right
first time, so they beat themselves up, or they'll set
them so of a goal of Okay, I'm going to

(01:25:02):
run ten k every day for a whole week instead
of go today, I'm just going to go for a walk.
Or what about standing still and practicing moving our weight
from one foot to the other foot. What about what
about learning how to control our fingers in a fashion

(01:25:22):
that that works. So it's it's it's a physical connection
within the brain to the nervous system to learn what
our body does and then how it actually feels whilst
it's happening. And there's there's a set of processes and
a set of very simple steps that me and Tim

(01:25:44):
were talking about actually on maybe a platform that can
help people do this in a really simple fashion. And
it's it's through games and playing basically. That's that's how
I think it needs to be explored.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, you're really going back to
that exploration. There's a lot of this experiential piece to it,
and I like that one of the very first things
you said there about like the body works on feedback
and then you're taking just this really gentle and patient

(01:26:22):
approach with that feedback in an experiential world, allowing yourself
to explore.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Yeah, and that what that does it It then poses
this other problem of lots of people will tell you
what you need to do, like like we've just done,
We've just literally said a very slow approach, carefully gently
in increments. But what do those gentle increments look like?

(01:26:50):
How do you explore it? And that's where it really
takes somebody with a background that can coach you through it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
But it's there's there's too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Many people out there telling us what we need to
do without delivering the how. So I think it's really
important to understand how as well.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
Yeah, yeah, that having having a valued mentor is so important.
And I think too even on the kind of on
more of the flashback Olympic side of things as well,
it's so valuable to have somebody who's in their cortex.
It's always nice to have one cortex that's fully online,
somebody who can be adult and grounded in the present. Uh,

(01:27:31):
to witness and be with you as you're going into
your Olympic brain or into your flashback. I wanna, I
want to shift with you a little bit here and
so I know you're involved. Uh, there's a I don't
know everything that you're in right now. You're training athletes,
hosting podcasts, You're doing so much more. Could you talk
about some of the different projects that you're doing right

(01:27:52):
now and what excites you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
Yeah, So I'm I'm actually having an app built at
the moment which is going to have some of those
courses on there, so it will have a step by
step guide on what to do and how to do it.
In terms of finishing off this journey that we started
as a child about reconnecting with our body, I think
the best way of explaining it will be most people

(01:28:19):
are familiar with the Tibetan term reincarnation. So we leave
our body and then we revisit a new body and
start another life. But forget, forget that bit for now.
What about incarnating just in this one? So we started
a process. Whether I was in another body before, I

(01:28:42):
have no idea, But what I do know is that
I'm currently in charge of this one and the connection
between the me that thinks to move my thumb and
the thumb moving.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
I'm in charge of that, and.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
That that can be explored through incarnation, finishing off the
process of us actually getting into our body and what
does it feel like to really be in there. For me,
that's something that's really beneficial because the more present you
are within the body, the more in tune you are

(01:29:18):
to the environment. And we're not a tree, so if
we need to change environments, we can move.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
And I think it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
Like I said, it's not therapy, but it's very therapeutic
sometimes and it can really help you ground yourself and
get back.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
Into the.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Prefrontal cortex that we need to be in order to
live a comfortable life. Yeah, so that the app I
also write for a magazine which is called FMA Magazine
that with the next article about that is actually going
to be to do with trauma and polyvagal theory and

(01:29:58):
how to regulate the nervous system under stress as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
So that's that's a big project.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
But the main thing is trying to bring Tim's courses
over to England and we're building a gym from Scratch,
which is going to be it's a community center based
but with it so it's a full gym. We will
deliver martial arts courses, but we'll also deliver Tim's Lift
program from that center as well, which is going to

(01:30:25):
be it's going to be great that one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
So, yeah, that would be so valuable to be able
to do, to get the physical, the mental, the emotional
all in one, all in their location. Yeah. Let me
let me ask if you could, you know, knowing kind
of going through everything that you've gone through and knowing

(01:30:51):
what you know that today, if you could go back
and talk to to little ed, to your younger self. Ah,
maybe that that eight or nine year old version of you,
what would you what would you say to him or
what would you encourage him to do?

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
So it would the advice would just be be brave
enough not to listen to anybody else mm hmm. Be
brave enough to not listen to anybody's Because so all
of my mentors that have had a big impact on
anything I've done. The main reason what they did was

(01:31:34):
so impactful was it already it reconfirmed the direction I
was already traveling in. So it was like, imagine, imagine
a child when the child's been dropped off at the
playpark and the child stumbles into the playpark and before

(01:31:56):
they get three or four steps away from the parent,
they turn around to look back at the parent, and
the child does that to see the parent's facial expression
whether the parent is giving the child permission to go ahead.
And if the parent can convey permission, the child will
go ahead. But when the parent is concerned and apprehensive

(01:32:22):
and is in fear themselves, is my child going to
get hurt or are they going to come back safe,
then the child will coregulate off of the parent and
they're going to be anxious as well. And with me,
all of the mentors that I've had that were very impactful,
and you could change the word mentor for teacher vice versa.

(01:32:46):
What they did was they gave me permission. And because
I trusted them and I trusted their judgment, I knew
I was going in the direction with that permission.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
I love that because there's a I love the way
you worded it in a different way. It's like, trust
your gut, trust your own intuition, and you know, we're
such marvelous organisms. There's like so much in us that
it's just kind of like it's built to live and

(01:33:18):
to explore naturally that if we can trust our gut
and follow our own God, our own heart, her own intuition. Yeah,
I think that's that's that's beautiful advice. Let me ask
them too. So for for any listeners who might be
struggling with self doubt, limiting beliefs, or even their own
healing journey, what's a piece of advice that you'd leave

(01:33:42):
with them?

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
So I'm a firm believer in fifteen tries. So what
I don't mean is get yourself in fifteen bad relationships
to work out that that's not the right relationship to
be in. But set yourself a goal of trying to
recognize something fifteen times.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
Because the prefrontal.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
Cortex, the executive function of the prefrontal cortex is pattern recognition.
But we need to in order to spot a pattern,
especially when we're trying to convince our limbic system to
change its wiring, the sympathetic nervous system. We're convincing it

(01:34:31):
through evidence and something that I've found with my coaching
of fighters. But also I wouldn't call it. I don't
like the term life coaching. I just prefer like mentoring.
It's if you can get fifteen pieces of evidence together,
that's normally enough for you to start changing those beliefs.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
But you've really got to gather the evidence.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
So along with the explorer, there's the hat of the
detective or the investigator, And so you have to think
that there's a part of me that's trying to trick me.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
And keep me safe.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
It's there for a purpose, but it's not serving me anymore.
These protectors, I suppose you could call them, are internal
things that were coping mechanisms at one point, but they've
become maladaptive. They're not good for me anymore. And if

(01:35:35):
I can present myself with fifteen pieces of evidence of
when I did something well, or fifteen pieces of evidence
that I've noticed something fifteen times, like every time I
wake up in the morning, I go for a coffee,
and if I wanted to quit coffee fifteen times, I

(01:35:56):
need to write that down, or today I've had a coffee.
By the time you get to twelve or thirteen or fourteen,
you start to think yourself, I really should not do
this today.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
But it might take that many times because there's.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
Only a very small window for us to make a
decision to change in action.

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of like specificity and clarity
in the in how I see you kind of treating yourself,
and in the in the advice that you give, and
just for the kind of the reality testing, Yeah it does.
And see how powerful that would be and being able

(01:36:39):
to either build that impetus to change or to see
what is really going on. Yeah yeah yeah. Let me
ask before we wrap up here, is there anything that
maybe that we didn't cover that you would you'd like
to say, or anything any other thoughts or words.

Speaker 1 (01:37:01):
It's worth mentioning.

Speaker 2 (01:37:02):
So once I'd finished during the course, so I jumped
on the LIFT program and I like to live from
the ethos of I won't ask anybody to do anything
I'm not willing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
Myself others it's really hypocritical.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
So my mum has been suffering with mental health issues
her entire life. She spent lots of money on counseling,
she was given free counseling. She had I think it
was an eighty three degree curvature of her spine, so
her spine was literally in s shape. She suffered massively

(01:37:42):
through her parents and some horrible things they did during
her life, but she's always tried. The thing that she
was trying to do was she couldn't find the right fit,
the right therapist that understood what she was talking about.
And as soon she understood what trauma was, and with

(01:38:05):
the tools that Tim's course the LIFT course gave me,
I was able to get her to go through the course.
So my mum and one of my ex girlfriends, who's
an amazing lady, that they both went through the course
together with a few students from my gym as well.

(01:38:27):
The people, the change in those people and the people
that they've become were the people that I could always see.

Speaker 1 (01:38:36):
What happened was the things.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
That they thought were their ADHD or possibly their autism,
and the mislabeled parts of themselves that they were worried about.
What would they be like if they dropped away? They
dropped away, and now these people, they are the nicest,

(01:39:00):
kindest people that you've ever met, the most understanding. They're
building huge amounts of resilience. And after the course, my
mum phoned me one day, she's walking down the road
and she said, something's different and I don't know what
it is, but I think I'm understanding. And she said,

(01:39:23):
I walked past a person and they made eye contact,
and normally she would just look directly at the floor,
and she said that I walked past this person and
I made eye contact. And it's the first time in
my life that I've walked down the street and not
felt ashamed of myself. And for me, like if anybody

(01:39:44):
understood the huge amount of hours and hours once a
week she spent counseling. We're talking grief therapy, gestalk therapy, psychotherapy,
all these different types of therapies and it never worked.
And I told her as she was doing them, they're
not working. They won't work for you because it's not

(01:40:06):
addressing the actual cause of the issue. And once she
did Tim's course, the shame's gone. Obviously, triggers can still
come up, but now she's equipped with the tools to
deal with them. But to have my mom smiling and
laughing and joking and not feeling ashamed was a God said.

(01:40:29):
Then what happened was over Christmas this year. My mom
gets really upset during Christmas times because my sister's birthday
was the fourteenth of December and my sister passed away
about thirteen fourteen years ago now she died of cancer. Unfortunately,
my younger sister. My mom would get close to Christmas,

(01:40:53):
she would always get upset. She would then panic over
Christmas and have panic attacks and need to get kind
of value from the doctors and different things. This Christmas,
she made it through Christmas and actually had a nice Christmas.
And that's the first Christmas in a very very long
time that she's been able to do that. And I honestly,

(01:41:15):
there's not many people that I would say could change
the world if people listen to them. One of those
people is Tim, and that yourselves and the people that
have put these courses together, and I'm really trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
Push it out there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
If people actually listen and are willing to go through
the process, it will literally make the world a better place.
So I'd like to say thanks to Tim from literally
from the bottom of my heart, because it's made a
massive change for my family.

Speaker 3 (01:41:47):
It's beautiful, you know, not just for them and their
own healing, put in kind of just seeing your community
grow and their own and their own healing and resilience.
But thank you, thank you so much. Ed. I think
this has been a really powerful conversation there's so much.

(01:42:09):
I really appreciate your action bias, your movement bias, and
then also the embodiment and really just that attitude of
exploration and moving into that attitude of exploration. I think
there's so much, so many wonderful things that you've shared
with us today. And for those listening, if Ed's insights

(01:42:34):
resonated with you, be sure to check out his work
and follow his journey online as well. And so that's
it for today's conversation. Until next time, take care and Ed,
thank you so much for spending this time with us. Yeah,
thanks for the opplegunion Saints correct, thank you for joining

(01:42:55):
us on the Time with Tim podcast. If you'd like
to share your own experiences or have questions, feel free
to email us at podcasts at Tim Fletcher dot caa
want to learn more about complex trauma, subscribe to Tim
Fletcher's YouTube channel for past lectures and is Friday Night
Tim Talks. You can also connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,

(01:43:19):
and TikTok. Looking for more support, we offer programs and
courses to help with healing complex trauma and recovering from addictions.
Visit Tim Fletcher dot ca to learn more or send
us an inquiry. We're here to support you until we
meet again. Take care and thank you for letting us
be a part of your healing journey.

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S2E2 | Embracing Gratitude and Failure with MMA Coach Ed Lofts

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S2E2 | Embracing Gratitude and Failure with MMA Coach Ed Lofts