S3E08 | Christmas and Complex Trauma: Finding Connection, Comfort, and New Traditions - Time with Tim Fletcher

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey everyone, and welcome to this special Christmas Day episode
of Time with Tim. I'm Mandy Carlson, and today's episode
is going to be a little different. We know that
for many people, Christmas doesn't always feel magical. Sometimes it's
a reminder of who isn't here anymore, or of the
loneliness or even the chaos that can come with family gatherings.
So this year, we wanted to create something for you. You'll

(00:33):
hear from several members of Tim's team as they share
what's made this time of year difficult for them and
how they've found ways to create connection, community, and hope
in their lives, sometimes with the families they've chosen along
the way. And later in the episode, there's a special surprise,
a heartfelt message from some familiar voices who mean a
lot to all of us. Wherever you are today, where

(00:55):
you feel a quiet sense of belonging, we hope this
reminds you that you're not alone. There's a place for
you here. To start things off, I wanted to have
a conversation with someone who's been such a steady, thoughtful
voice at our community. Her cheerful, welcoming energy is often
the first thing people experience when they joined Tim's Lift program.

(01:17):
Nicole joining from Canada. Happy holidays and thank you for
being here today.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you Happy holidays, Andy and everybody else.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm well, I love this time of year, excited and
nervous all at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
M Yeah, well, I'm really glad that you're willing to
do this with me today. And I know you've walked
through many seasons of growth and change, and so I
know that holidays can bring up a lot. You know,
there's tender memories and also meaningful moments, and so I
just wanted to start by asking you what losses, whether people, places,

(01:57):
or dreams, have made this season tender for you.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh goodness, well, I remember growing up, Christmases were always
elaborate with seventeen plus people. So I remember, I guess
one of the first losses is because I'm much younger
than my siblings. Is just like that loss of that
big group because of families growing, sister in laws and

(02:23):
extended families needing to separate that Christmas time to not
always you know, being all together all the time. And
then I think I was seventeen when I lost my
grandfather and he was like the cornerstone of Christmas. He
loved Christmas. And then a year later we sold the

(02:44):
farm where Christmas was a big thing at the farm,
and three months after I graduated high school, we had
to move away from the farm. So that was that
loss of like where are we going to have those
fun farm Christmases? And yeah, and then into my recent years,
I guess twenty twenty three years, first Christmas without my father,
So that was a tough Christmas as well because Dad

(03:05):
was huge on family gatherings in Christmas.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
And so there's like kind of like a lot of
change that's happened for you, like a big celebrations, people,
locations are you will you be willing to talk with
us kind of like maybe how the last few years
have been without your father?

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, so the first Christmas was probably, of course the
hardest after you lose a family member. And it was, yeah,
just trying to manage my own grief and the fact
that Dad wasn't there to have you know, those moments
where he made sure we were all you know, had

(03:46):
food and if we're happy and and if everything was okay.
Where my mom was of course struggling with the loss
of her husband, that. Yeah, it was a lot of
having to put almost I would say, like my own
emotions behind myself because I was wanting to make sure
my mom was okay. My It was only I think

(04:09):
the third Christmas with my own new family, my husband
and my stepdaughter. So I didn't want to be an
emotional wreck, which I know I could have been if
I needed to, But I just had those parts in
me that wanted to be strong for everybody else.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Probably m yeah, so I can hear like there's a
lot of grief. Could I ass like as you were
as you were doing that, like what did you do
for kind of like for your own support or your
own wellbeing? Like I heard you say you were you
were strong for everybody else, Like how how did you
say strong for yourself?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I think I would just have my moments of reflections
of just sharing those tender thoughts of the happy times
at Christmas and just it brought up happy emotions but
sad because it was that loss. But to take care
of myself was just talking about it too my own partner,

(05:01):
but also if I needed to reach out to my
support system that I had people that were always there
and available to help me work through those emotions.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
And you know kind of with that, like that loss
is still kind of recent, Like is there How is
that resonating for you this year?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh? I think because this year I'm a new grandmother.
So my stepdaughter had a baby three months ago, so
she just turned three months so to it's tough because
I always wanted to have my both parents see that grandchild, right,
So that's that's a tough part for me this year

(05:40):
is there's a lot of excitement and warmth and a
new little baby in the family, but my dad not
there to see it, and it was always big on
family and grandchildren.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, let me ask you, Nicole, like what kind of
traditions or moments make this time of year meaningfully meaningful
for you now with the life that you are living today?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Oh? Meaningful?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh my goodness. Like December twenty fourth is a new
celebration for me, just the fifth Christmas with my newer family,
right to just have that step mom role where I
get to cook and I get to make sure everyone
else is fed, Like carrying on that tradition from my

(06:28):
own parents, how they always had a wormhousehold at Christmas
and more the merrier, right where even though it's only
like down to like five or six people now when
it's Christmas Eve. But Christmas Day is still that huge celebration.
My brother's with seventeen people because all the extended family
and sister in law's parents get together. And so that's

(06:49):
beautiful because I still get that little girl fixed where
I get to have the big family function and gains
and all of that. And then we do a yearly
tradition with our Canadian weather can be really cold, but
we do a sleigh ride on Boxing Day where we
all get together and go into it. It's called Birds
Hill and they have I'm just gonna say, cows of

(07:11):
courses all the sleigh and it's a beautiful celebration. You
get to have a hot dog grossed after hot chocolate
and warm up.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Mmm. That sounds like such like a beautiful like traditional Christmas,
the sleigh and the hot chocolate, And I like to
you know what I heard you say here kind of
like it sounds that you're now creating this like the cooking, feeding,
creating this warm household that it's coming.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's that you're part of the creation rather than just
a participant in the season.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, Yeah, it's That was huge for me because I
was always the one who was getting fed right and
being the younger, youngest in the family, it's like, go
do something else, you're in the way in the kitchen.
But now, well, I feel like, okay, I can give
back now and happy to be that person that's doing
for others that always got done for me.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, that's really beautiful. Let me ask if there's anything
that you would like to offer our listeners or leave
our listeners something about like maybe like hope or comfort
or how you found comfort or how you've moved into
creating comfort. Is there anything you'd like to share with them.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Just.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
As my own healing journey and especially that inner child work,
Like there's that part of our inner child from a
young age that had some good parts of Christmas to
hold those parts alive, like whether it's like a Christmas song,
So for me, I don't know if you know that

(08:58):
bony Am, but that was a very popular thing in
our household and it's eighties nineties Christmas carols, But just
hearing that one particular song from them just brings that warmth.
So finding those type of traditions just that, Yeah, just
that because it can be tough time for Christmas for
a lot of people going through grief and just maybe

(09:20):
don't have a lot of family that there's always, yeah,
there's connection where we need it the most, that we
just have to find the connection that we need during
those difficult times.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
M And I love that too, like the kind of
checking in with the inner child and finding finding what
this like, you know what what what little Nicole wants
or what little Nicole enjoys. And I don't know, Bony
m off off the top. I'm sure if I heard it,
I might I might recognize it. Is that is that Canadian?

(09:56):
Is that regional? Or was that? Is that something that
I as an American should know?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Well, I don't know, but it's like I think there's
four in the band and it Yeah, I could send
you a video Andy, because it's as soon as you
hear the song, it sticks in your head and then
you don't want to hear it again until next Christmas
season because you know how Christmas carols get overplayed from

(10:20):
right till Christmas Day. But every time I hear that
one song, it just brings you right back to that.
Even the smells come back right because of that memory
of the song.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Even yeah, yeah, well who for you? When when do
you start listening to to Christmas music? Are you? Oh?
You have I forget. Canadians have Thanksgiving about like six
weeks in front of Americans, and so like I think
for us, like things really start to kick into overdrive

(10:49):
after our Thanksgiving at the end of November. What's the
what's the timing for you guys there?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
For me, I know it's everyone's different, but in my
family is always November twelfth on just because Remembrance Day
is November eleventh, So we don't normally decorate or listen
to Christmas carols before November twelfth, and that's when the
celebrations starts and all of that, and yeah, Christmas baking too.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
That's interesting, you know, the more I know about Canadians,
it's like every important holiday, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, you
guys find a way to start celebrating before we do.
And so it sounds like you guys have a little
bit longer runway before Christmas than we do here in
the States.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, we extend our fall celebrations, so all the pumpkin
spice and the pumpkin pie goes right into mid November
for us, and enjoying fall because sometimes we got a
nice fall. Sometimes we have winter too early before it's winter.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah. Yeah, So you've mentioned like a pumpkin pie, pumpkin spice,
hot chocolate. Like, do you have any favorite favorite Christmas foods,
favorite Christmas meals?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Oh well, I grew up in a French family, So
my mom and my Ma Mayor, we always used to
make like it's called tatsia to meat pie and then
meat buns and suka that cram. It's like a soft
fudge and that's a lot of brown sugar and butter.

(12:27):
But you would have it either on a piece of toastore. Yeah,
just a fresh piece of baguette, and you'd put this
amazing Cara Milk's only Cara milk sauce on it. And
those are all things that I remember from we'd get
a Christmas time and it would just yeah, amazing memories.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah yeah. Those I can kind of smell it and
taste it as you're describing it. They also they sell
really good. Well, this is really beautiful, Nicole, And I
love how you found, you know, your own ways to
steak connected even in the midst of change and continuing
change in your family and I was wondering if if

(13:09):
there's any any final thing you want to want to
leave with people before before we move on here.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, I just want to wish everyone a happy holiday season.
And I know loneliness can be heavy on a lot
of folks this time of year, and grief if you've
lost loved ones, but you know that you're not alone,
and this beautiful family of you know, Tim Fletcher Company

(13:41):
is always here to be there for us when sometimes
we don't have that connection we need during the holiday season.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
M Well, thank you Nicole for being here with us
today and for sharing this time with us, and your
message is really beautiful and I want to wish you
a peaceful and meaningful holiday as well. And so I
hope you have happy holidays and a merry Christmas and
I'll see you.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Thank you and you too.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Andy.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Next, I'm joined by Sandra, connecting with us from Canada.
Sandra originally grew up in Cuba and she brings such
a warm, grounded presence to everything she does. I've had
the privilege of working closely with her as a facilitator,
and from the beginning I've been struck by her calm
and her clarity. The way she helps people feel safe
enough to be real. Hey, Sandra, it's great to have

(14:33):
you here. Happy holidays.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Oh thank you. Andy.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Likewise is always a pleasure for me to like get
all all the excitement from you and all.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
That energy that you bring to the table.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
So it's like I feel like we just like should
grab a cup of coffee and cut on and our
caucious and start talking. That's the energy that I.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I would love that. I'd love to I'd love to
sit down and chat with you more. I love your sweater.
That's pretty amazing.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Thank you. You want to hear the story about it.
There's always a story about everything I have.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
I would I would love to know the story about
your sweater.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
So this sweater was one of the few things I
was able to bring home from Cuba. And it was
given to my dad by his grandma when he was
ten years old, and he gave it to me when
I was ten years old.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
And still fits.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
I don't know what that says about me, but I
wear it every every Christmas. Is my piece my piece
of like you know, home or vintage or that element
of feeling like the nostalgia that.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Is the word I'm m I like that, the nostalgia.
It looks like you've taken very very good care of
it as well.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yes, because I only wear it Christmas Day.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
True. True, I suppose if it's one day a year.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, I say it for that special Okay, something
I do for myself.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well, would you be willing to chat about, you know,
kind of growing up in like very different worlds, having
grown up in Cuba and now you're living in Canada,
would you share what life was like, what Christmas was
like for you when you were a child growing up.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
I would say Cuba after the exchange to from before
to Communism, that sort of shifted the way we saw
Christmas in Cuba because it's considered religious holiday and we're
not allowed to have in a religion in Cuba, so
Christmas was felt a little on the ground for us,

(16:40):
and it was more recognized sort of as a thanksgiving
level that people would be like, you can have a
family meal and always it fell to me growing up
and this is just my perception as a little kid,
that it was all about addiction. What I there was

(17:01):
fights on the streets, people in neaborated. We we live
in a warm weather, so you feel like the whole
neighborhood is your family. Like it's hard to keep secrets.
One houses right next to the other. So even if
it wasn't in your house, it was next door neighbors

(17:23):
or the ones across the street, or some sort of conflict.
So that was I still feel that expectation of conflict today.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Almost like kind of like the shoe is going to
drop or something's going to happen, sort of.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah, the hypervigilance of like coming with with the holidays,
that somebody could get a little too inebriated and can
take things out of out of control, and.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
It could it could end in anyway.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Half, Yeah, there was a lot of definitely a lot
of by allance with that. But I was kind of
lucky in a way that my sister is eleven years
older than me, and you know, in the complex drama
family dynamic, it's usually that older sisters it becomes sort
of a caregiver in a way, And in our case,

(18:19):
I was lucky that my parents sort of allowed me
to be her daughter and her my mom because she
started she started going to church when she was in
her teens and I was like five years old or something,
and she took me with her in the holidays, and

(18:39):
for me that felt like going to Narnia, like being
able to be And that church was another underground situation
happening in Cuba because of religion. So it was in
someone's backyard and it was more like a barn with
our walls in the really bad back of their yard,

(19:01):
and you would have to go through a fence.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
And a big wooden door and again.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
The whole Narnia thing, and you had to go down
the path and once you got to that backyard, like
there were all the lights and kids having fun and
nobody was inebriated, and there were games and connection and
all of that, and it was.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Like, Okay, this is safe space.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
But again in that complex trauma or always happen in
the back of your head, I'm going to have to
come home eventually. So yeah, I'm not sure if I'm
capturing the feeling that I'm getting from that whole a
large Yeah, obviously polarization of my world's happening at the

(19:47):
same time there.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, that's so interesting. I think that the Narnia reference
is like such a great reference, especially for what you're describing,
you know, like having it be underground, was there any sense,
you know, like a fear of being seen or a
cat or a danger. Was this like done in secret
as well?

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Or like, yeah, you can you can notice, I like
noticing it in my body, just the fact that you
acknowledge that my body feels like, yes, he.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Can understand that. That's totally the case in any ones.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
You were not supposed to know what was happening, so
all the music had to be lower and everyone had
to be in the hush hush, and there was there
was a time that we had to go out in
badges and come in in bashes because if the neighbors
were to complain that there was a church happening, we
would get into trouble. And I don't feel safe and

(20:48):
getting into details of I'm much trouble because my family
is still in Cuba and I feel for their life.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
So it's like that is such of a kind of
like as you said, like polarized or pulllity of kind
of like the the communion and the connection and coming together,
but then also having to to whisper or to to
do it in secret while you were while you were there,
while you were kind of in the in the backyard

(21:17):
and the bushes and the community. Like as a little kid,
did you have that did you kind of feel that
the tension or that danger even then or were you
did you like, were you able to let go. I'm
trying to see how to word this year, but like
were you able to like kind of forget about it
ever or is that just something that was like always there,

(21:38):
like with that celebration as well.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
I would say that sort of depending on the moments. Uh,
if there was a moment when we were engaged in games.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Or we used to do a lot of plays.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
And the kids were involved, ourselves were involved, so I
was I was always acting and in the middle of
the thick of.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
It, to you call it, so that I would be
able to forget.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
But there were there will be quiet times that would
be like especially the moments where they were like almost ending,
or if there was a reminder of like.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
We used to do silly gifts for each.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Shuter and he would be the most random things like
pretend I don't know one old shoe, and like that
would be the gift for the next person and they
will just have fun with it and there will be
a story one I'm giving one old shoe and all
of that and we knew that by the end of

(22:37):
that gift exchange that would happen and there was no
value in the in the gifts, but we knew that
soon after that would be ending the surface and going home.
And I remember waiting from one to the other would
be like, I hope that this never ends, because I
know I'm gonna have to come home to even potentially

(22:59):
my dad and all the unsafety that was there.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, I can just sense kind of like just how
much like joy and value that you got out of that,
just that connection and that community. What would you say,
Maybe maybe you've already shared it already, but like what
would you say is kind of like just the biggest
highlight or if you have like a single biggest memory

(23:22):
from from any one Christmas as a child growing up.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
I remember before the church was even that barn was
just amound, like underneath the tree there among the rocks,
sitting everywhere that they had And this is my child memories.
I'm not sure how clear this is, but there was
there were so many lights in that backyard and I

(23:49):
remember sitting on a rock and.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Just being wow by by the lights. That was my
first time seeing somebody trying to do with the leader
they had. What's not being older than six dandy primal memory?

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, yeah, you know I love that, you know, when
we're kids, that connection to just how close like a
connection to awe and wonder and curiosity is that you know,
sometimes simple things can be so amazing or so powerful

(24:29):
or little like acts of beauty, you know, like somebody
stringing up lights, Like just how we can find that
awe and that wonder and that enjoyment in it?

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Yeah, And I think we can appreciate more when we
truly feel safe and connected. So I think we can
tap into that awe, into our ability to be in
the present and just to be thankful for whatever leader
we have when we're safe. And I think that's why
I remember that, because it'd been one of the first

(25:01):
times that I felt safe.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So let me ask, how how long have you been
in Canada?

Speaker 4 (25:08):
I count the winters.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Those are the time of the year to cout for sure.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
I don't count the years, but is around nine winters
now nine winters?

Speaker 1 (25:22):
And Canada has how many winters per year?

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Maybe just one, but it feels like has three.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
A lists, it feels like a lot. Yeah, yeah, so
kind of thinking about this this dichotomy you talked about
of like growing up in communism and having to practice
like both your faith and celebrate Christmas in an underground way,
Like how was coming to Canada? Like how has that

(25:49):
changed things for you? I know you mentioned earlier there's
still a little bit of that tense trauma of like
the shoe dropping, just from the relationship to the year,
but like what else has changed in your experience?

Speaker 3 (26:03):
I got to give it this closure first.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
So normally I encounter this. You must be so thankful
m M that you can experience material things in can
And I always say every it doesn't matter if you
live in a third world country or if you live
in a first world country. We all have our different

(26:25):
struggles and our challenges. So first I want to I
want to put out there for everyone listening to this,
don't minimize whatever you're going through up here. At the beginning,
I felt like that little kid again, being a whole
by all the lights and being impressed by all the

(26:48):
the snow and all the culture that it was public
now that you could see all this happening on the streets,
and people could freely decorate and speak up whatever religion
they were practicing and all that freedom to a limit.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
But I experienced that here.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
However, then came in the high expectations of the gifts,
and they did not felt anymore about connecting. They felt
about check marks and being able to have something for someone.
It doesn't matter if that's the love language or not,

(27:28):
or very guilt driven present when certain family members are
trying to appease whatever they were not able to appease
throughout the year through just giving a gift.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
And I marry a man who.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Like family, lives in Canada, so that became now my
family at the beginning, before I had chosen family. But
it felt very much like the same pressure that.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I fear before towards perhaps.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
My dad being liberated or mm hmm, that fear that
I felt outside of my Narnia, that fear had creaked
into my Narnia.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
That was part of that.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Meaning, Yeah, so's there's kind of like one kind of
expectation changed for another in a way. Can I share
with you my favorite thing about kind of Latin or
Spanish speaking cultures is that my first time, well I

(28:36):
was gonna I said, Spanish speaking and now I'm going
to talk my first time it was in Brazil where
I noticed this, but I kind of I kind of
lumped them in with everybody else. Is like it was
the first time that I saw people who their connection
was with people rather than with things. And like growing
up in the States, like people have their connection it's

(28:57):
to their to their perfectly mo lawn, to their car,
to their house, to their clothes, and there's some like
there's a wall between the actual connection to other human beings,
that we prioritize our property over prioritizing people.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
And there are several elements in there, for sure, the
fact that we have to depend on the shehadd to
survive in our country and here that independence comes with
the cost of this connection.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Mm hmmm, mm hmm. I want to I want to
follow on with your story, but I do have kind
of a very Christmas y related question for you, Like
having grown up in Minnesota, Christmas is always about snow,
and we always had snow for Christmas, and so it's
just like my brain it struggles to comprehend the celebration

(29:55):
of Christmas without snow. And when you were in Cuba,
did people like our songs even it's like I'm dreaming
of a white Christmas did people think about snow or
talk about snow? Was there any or is that just
like so far away from from the mental frame at
the time.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Well, actually, all our Christmas songs are about Jesus, okay,
culture wise, so for the first time when I encounter
that Christmas was about Santa Claus was and there was
other elements of Christmas, but in a very southern culture,

(30:37):
and that we say from Mexico down, it is very
oriented to like, okay, what was that original Christmas about?
And then all our songs about angels and the donkey
that brought Jesus down like all this fun.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Like but all religion oriented songs.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
So we have any of that, yeah that you know,
Like the second you said that, it blew my mind
and then it just like the realization dawned on me
because like for me, it was like half half Christian
music and then half pop music. But if it's not
something that's being celebrated in the popular culture, then that

(31:19):
that pop music is gone. So I get why why
it is all the all the Christian music. It's you know,
it's amazing, like the I'll just say my own my
own ignorance, Like there are things that you can't. You
don't necessarily become aware of until you're you're kind of
like somebody just opens it up in front of you.

(31:42):
And so so I appreciate you, uh you sharing that
and helping me to learn something new here.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Today, honestly, And it's just we had different experiences. I
don't think it's necessarily about you know, I was ignorant
of the Conadian and the North American missions.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, yeah, I just I enjoyed being curious, and so
I like learning about how different people live and experience things,
and how you expect things and so like speaking about expectations,
like you know, you kind of talked about kind of
moving here and those the expectations around family and faith

(32:22):
and then some of the guilt and how that shapes
how you feel this time of the year, Like, can
you talk a little bit more about how those expectations
have shaped your experience of the season.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
The first few years, it was a little bit of
what we're talking about before that creeping in that fear.
So it was the first year was sort of everything
was new. I had no idea what was happening, so
I was sort of going with the flow. And from
the second year on, it was that fear of like

(32:56):
I must get the perfect gift, or I must show
up ten minutes before dinner starts, or like certain like
very rigid expectations of how that was supposed to be.
And then I, at one point in my healing journey,
maybe three years ago, I made the decision that this.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Could not happen to me anymore.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
I felt like was happening to me any celebration it
was happening to me. I was expecting somebody to come
and rescue me from it. And when I made the
decision to take agency over how I wanted to do
things and who I wanted together with, and learning my language,

(33:48):
my love language, and my spouse's love language, and my
shows and family, then that are now here with me
and who I spend Christmas with. We don't even do
physical gifts anymore. M we give you shater experiences or
we give you share memories, and that completely has has

(34:09):
become of how I want to experience this. And it
does not have to fit in any box. As a
matter of fact, we're all different, so it's not supposed
to fit in any box. It's supposed to feel like
it doesn't fit anywhere. How I do it because I'm
completely different than anybody else. So that has shifted all

(34:31):
of that and now I can instead of hoping that
somebody can love me, I know I'm loved just because
and I just leave it.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
That's really beautiful. One of my new words this month,
and I think you really expressed it here is non
non conforming and really owning your individuality, your autonomy, your agency,
your uniqueness. And I really hear you. Do you know
we're rather than fitting in and conforming, like you've started

(35:06):
to create something like Christmas is supposed to be. It's
supposed to have supposed to Now I'm putting something on
out in there. It's we see it as this is
this inspiring and magical time and yet you know, maybe
we're around people we may not enjoy or work, and
so I just really love here how you've found a

(35:27):
way to turn Christmas into something that maybe that maybe
that six year old Sundra would would appreciate. Looking at
the lights again.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
And that's my kinds of decorations that I have now
on It's the ones that remind me of like how
it used to be in that moment. If they're not,
they don't even need to be a Christmas tree. They
are right there about the moments of safety and the
moments of connection. So yeah, we don't have to fit

(35:56):
in any box. I would say it is a gift
to your life.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Is a gift, is such an amazing gift.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
And any holiday, honestly, and any chance I can get
to celebrate that, I will.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
You give me.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
We celebrate here, we celebrate Christmas, Hanakhah, all of the
all of the different religion holidays that we can possibly adopt,
just as long as we can keep celebrating.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
I love that. And I think kind of what I'm
taking away from you here is that I don't want
there's a way I want to word it, but I don't.
It's not right. And the first one is like you
are the gift. But I think more deeply is your
bringing the gift of bringing yourself and your full self
and just honoring yourself. And that's that seems to really
be the gift.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Not that I plan this, but when we were talking before,
remember the story about my lipstick.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
M M, yeah, tell me, tell me about your lipstick.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
So if it's very well, it was like, I still
have a hard time I'm meeting my beauty needs.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Growing up in Cuba. You that is just superfluous.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
M m mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
And I have decided for a long time I wanted
a red lipstick for Christmas, and I was honestly asking
God to teach me how to receive and the most
unexpected way from the most unexpected person. When I went
to the store, I asked about this red lipstick and

(37:36):
I was like, if you can sell me some red
lipstick that matches by can you put a little confidence
in there in that bag because I'm gonna need.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
It to wear it.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
And the person that was selling me it had an
amazing makeup on it was it was playful, It had
colors in an area I looked like, maybe like a
little clown makeup. And then on the other side, it
was just so much fun, so much fun in his face.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
And I'm like, can you tell me how to do that?

Speaker 4 (38:14):
I know you can sell me confidence, and he said,
buy it and wear it, And I want to put
it on here because you were alive.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
I love that, Sandra, And that is just because I'm
alive lipstick so now I wear every single day.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I love that. I love this kind of expressing yourself
and discovering and exploring and playing and enjoying your own aliveness.
And I think that's a that's a great place here
to end our conversation today. And so I just really
want to say thank you, Sandra for for showing up

(38:58):
and just bringing the gift, the gift of you, that
that unique, precious spirit that you bring, and thanks for
sharing it with us today.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Thank you, Andy.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
I feel so accepted from you and I really appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
So thank you for being in my life.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Happy holidays as good seeing you.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Likewise, Gode bye.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Next, I'm joined by someone whose heart and voice have
become such an important part of the work we do,
joining us from Idaho. Jonathan's been leading workshops on shame recovery,
and he brings a lot of courage and tenderness to
the way he talks about love, loss, and sovereignty. Hey, Jonathan,
it's really good to see you. Thanks for being with

(39:41):
us today.

Speaker 5 (39:43):
Yeah, good to see you too. Andy, It's it's good
to be here.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
I just, you know, to start off, I was just
wondering if you could maybe tell me a little bit
about like what Christmas has meant to you as a
as a kid growing up like What were some of
your memories of Chris Smiths or foods or things you
like or activities you enjoy doing.

Speaker 6 (40:06):
Yeah, so Christmas for me growing up was a special time.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Definitely.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
We would wake up early to go out to see
what presents we got, and we would then after we
had our breakfast, which my mom would make these candy
canes with like cinnamon and apple and I think maybe
pecans in there, and then like frosting on this.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
Dough candy cane thing what comes to mind.

Speaker 6 (40:34):
We'd eat that with eggs in the morning and then
do presents and then go to my grandma's and uncle's
place in the afternoon. It's been the rest of the
day there opening presents and hanging out with family, eating
a big Christmas lunch dinner. And yeah, I have good
memories of Christmas.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I love hearing people's different things like candy canes which
with cinnamon and apple and then eating it with eggs.
That is a completely new one for me. Is that
Do you know if that's like your family specific or
is that some some part of the region of the
world you grew up in.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
Yeah, maybe it might be like an English I don't know.

Speaker 6 (41:11):
Almost my grandma, you know, kind of I think came
from her and she I know, she's English and so
maybe it's some type of some English pastry.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Maybe. Well, Jonathan, you know, I know we've talked about
in the past, like that this season carries a lot
for you and that as a father you can't always
be with your own children during the holidays. Would you
be willing to chat with us about like how an
that ache for your kid shows up? Like what does
it say about what you value as a father?

Speaker 6 (41:41):
That's a great question, And you use the word ache there,
and that's an emotion that as I facilitate some of
the groups in the LIFT program, I often talk about
how ache or pain or grief is the one thing
that we all have in common that brought us to

(42:02):
the Tim Fletcher platform to begin to go into our
complex trauma and to learn how to navigate our emotions
and our feelings. And so to feel that ache of
not being with my kids this Christmas is yeah, that's
it is an ache.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
And the question was.

Speaker 6 (42:21):
About where that value comes in as being a father,
and I would say the ache lets me know I
am not only a father, but human, you know, and
I do have these emotions and feelings, and for me
it comes in waves, and I know, you know, Christmas
is one of those waves because to me, you.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
Want to be near the ones that you love, right,
and we love our.

Speaker 6 (42:43):
Kids, and I think it's just shows the value that
I have, this value of wanting to be intimate with
my kids, to be close to them, for me to
know them and experience them, and then to experience me
and know me.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
And Christmas is one of those days.

Speaker 6 (43:00):
You you definitely can feel the ache of not having
that there because I think, as you know, we're all humans,
we're all brothers.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
I'm a you know, brother, a son, a friend.

Speaker 6 (43:13):
So whatever the circumstance may be for anybody, you know
that that a normal feeling of if you don't have
that that closeness or that that connection there on this day.
And one thing I've learned from Tim, from you Andy,
is that we're not to like shove those emotions down

(43:35):
and just like, all right, I'm not feeling that, Let
me distruct myself and scroll on. You know the gram
or alcohol drinking, you know, you know those numbing agents.
I learned those don't work. So I thought that was
probably a long answer, but Oh no, you know, I

(43:56):
really appreciated, like you can. You can kind of hear
that kind of both that desire for belonging and also
the longing as you speak about it. And I think
really something that comes out as you share here is
just kind of the common humanity, like both recognizing it

(44:18):
in you, but you recognizing it in yourself of you know,
being that father, being a human and recognizing.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
That that we share a grief, so we share loss.
We have these emotions thinking of that, that grief and
the loss, and but also that both that longing and
that belonging, Like how do you hold both of those,
the grief and the love. What do you do to
stay connected to your to your children in spirit even
when you can't be with them physically?

Speaker 5 (44:46):
Man, I don't know if you're ready for this.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
Just to stay connected even when I can't or even
when there's maybe no communication, would be to continue having
the compassion love for myself one and feeling that in
my body, feeling being present with the compassion for myself
and love for myself, but then also just knowing as

(45:13):
I continue to do the work of that self love
and compassion for myself and feeling it. I like to
picture a white, golden orb around me of love and compassion,
and then from this like orb of energy around me,
I like to send chords of white and gold, chords

(45:34):
of love and compassion to my kids in my mind's eye,
and just like and just like see my energy connecting
to them and filling them with compassion and love. And yeah,
I just got to believe that as we do this work,
this internal work for ourselves, that on some kind of
quantum level, spiritual, esoteric, whatever you want to call it,

(45:57):
that I feel like something is happening for our kids,
for our parents, and even the whole world.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
You know, what do you think of that? And it's
kind of out there?

Speaker 1 (46:08):
No, I like that, Like it's it's a powerful image
kind of you know. I see it's like you're bathing
yourself and love and and sending that love outward as well.
And you know, in my in my in my view
of like some of these core emotions of love and respect,
like the place of the unconditional is holding inside of us,

(46:31):
and all we can do is is share it. And
and so the more that we offer it to ourselves
and the more we share it with others, it is
something that can change us and transform us and transform
those those around us. I think that's a really just
a really beautiful imagery. You know, it takes a lot
of courage to to really stay open to love. And

(46:54):
I was wondering if I could ask you, how does
that courage show up for you? Like, is it is
it difficult? What do you do when it's when it's
difficult to have that courage and when it's difficult to
be open to loving yourself and to to sharing it
with others?

Speaker 5 (47:08):
M Oh, yeah, that's a that's a great question.

Speaker 6 (47:11):
Sometimes I have to close my eyes to just find
to connect with my body and to find like just
the most authentic, real answer for that within myself. And
so what kind of is dropping in? Is just the
shame right like aspect of things? You know that and
Tim talks about that and that it's shame is is

(47:33):
more of an identity we take on than something that
we like miss right like whoops? You know like, and
so I think it's a it's a constant reminder, you know,
it's like having that courage as as when shame comes
up our mind, you know that wants to say, hey, you.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Got to be perfect, and this is who you are.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
You know that you know you're not with your kids
on Christmas, and there's you could have done things differently
and maybe you would be with them on Christmas.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
You know, it's like and it's like just taking that.

Speaker 6 (48:03):
Breath, you know, I like to put my hand on
my heart and just just knowing that it's through the
ache and the grieving is the proof that man, I
want the best for my kids. I want the best
for me, and that the shame thought that comes in
that I'm observing is like that that can sometimes be painful,

(48:25):
and we could take that on maybe to some degree,
but then at some point, you know, it's it's about saying, yeah,
you know, like I did the best I could with
the tools I had at the time, and now that
I have more tools, and I am I am, I
am not that same person, you know, I am growing
in self love for myself and gaining the tools to

(48:46):
navigate my relationship with myself with my kids. And then
that's where that the courage to have be the compassion
for yourself, even though and sometimes it feels like you
don't deserve it, right, But I think that we're all
like we come into this world pure beings, you know,
full of love and vulnerability, and because of complex trauma,

(49:08):
that that innocence or purity was kind of taken from us,
you know, and we had to then become adults and
do adult things, but trapped in just a little kid body,
still emotional body that has to just survive. And so
you know, we don't spank kids for trying to walk
and falling, you know, so I just extend that same

(49:30):
compassion for myself, and the Tim Fletcher platform here in
the LIFT program just really helped me do that.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Really here, there's like a lot of kind of that
that self compassion work that you've done, but also this
just kind of recognizing the fact of the past of
like you did the best you could with the tools
that you had at the time. Thinking about other parents
who may be missing their own children this Christmas, we

(49:58):
kind of hope or advice would you offer them to
maybe help them move from that place of despair towards
towards a sense of peace for purpose.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 6 (50:13):
And if I was to give advice to any parents
out there that may be feeling the grief, the ache
of the despair on Christmas.

Speaker 5 (50:23):
Christmas Day here just.

Speaker 6 (50:25):
Going through the holidays without that connection would be to
just take a moment and to step away from any
distractions and just place your hand on your heart and
take in a mindful breath in through the nose and
hold it for a.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
Bit and then exhale slowly and.

Speaker 6 (50:46):
Just do that for just at least three times or
for a few minutes, and in those breaths, just find
gratitude for anything simple. It could be a roof over
your head, a computer to watch this video, or phone
to listen to this video on or this podcast, and

(51:07):
and through that gratitude, just begin to feel that the
gratefulness and to to be grateful for something has really
helped me on my journey and as I have navigated
through despair and grief, and also know as you show
your self compassion and you do take a moment to
be still and to find something to be grateful for,

(51:28):
that that energy of gratefulness the discipline to just kind
of I don't like the word discipline, but like I
guess was another word for discipline, but there's just two.

Speaker 5 (51:40):
I mean, really, discipline is self love.

Speaker 6 (51:43):
In my opinion, you know, like when you when you
take the time for you right that's it.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
That's it. That's a great way to go.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
The word discipline triggers me as well, and I use
the word commitment is the word that I've come on
is like making that commitment to myself and having all
the commitment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just love like
your your advice. I hear it's just kind of grounded
in this compassion, but like really this encouraging of taking
some patience and extending a little bit of grace to

(52:12):
yourself and some of the self nurturing of that that
self touch, and then the breathing practice as well. I
think that was really it was really beautiful and I
just love the tenderness with with what you share. Well, Jonathan,
I wanna I appreciate you stopping by today to to
share some some holiday spirit with me. Do you have

(52:35):
any any final word to say before you leave here
today to our listeners.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Marry Christmas.

Speaker 6 (52:45):
And you know, I'm trying to get a beard coming
in like you, but yeah, no, it's a little short,
but I'm doing my best.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Someday someday, buddy. All right, Well, Jonathan, it was is
such a pleasure connecting with you today. I really hope
you enjoy your Christmas and the holiday season, and take care.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
Man you as well, my brother blessings.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I'm so grateful to everyone who's shared today. As we
wrap up these reflections from the team, we wanted to
spend a little time with some familiar faces who mean
a lot to all of us, the Fletcher family. They've
each offered to share a bit of what this season
means to them and some words of encouragement for those
who might be listening today. Well, let's start with Briann. Hey, Brianne,

(53:35):
thanks for joining me today. Happy holidays, two, how are
you doing today? Good?

Speaker 7 (53:43):
Happy Christmas is my absolute favorite holiday, so I'm feeling
really good.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Hmm, what are can you share? What are some of
the things you enjoy about Christmas?

Speaker 3 (53:53):
I mean lots of things, I suppose.

Speaker 7 (53:56):
Interestingly, I think one of the things I love about
Christmas the most is the anticipation of Christmas. I love
the December build up, like just you know, everything feels
so festive in the air, and everyone's excited, and decorations
go up, lights go up, all of those things and
you get the cozy vibes. So I love the anticipation
leading up to Christmas. But I think Christmas itself. It's

(54:16):
just a beautiful time to come together with family, celebrate,
share gifts with each other, and eat some tasty foods
because who doesn't love that?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
And what are some of the foods that you guys
like to eat or what are some of your favorite foods?

Speaker 7 (54:35):
Well, I might get some haters for this, but I
am a vegetarian, so I do not love the traditional
turkey dinner that most people or a lot of people
in Canada do. But often what we do on sorry
there's a dog popping it's head. Often what we do
on Christmas Eve is we love to do like an
appetizer's night. So we just get like I don't know

(54:56):
ten fifteen different little snacks and we just have this
huge spread and we eat appetizers, we play games, we
watch a Christmas movie kind of in that final anticipation,
and then Christmas Day this morning, for breakfast, we usually
have a nice little spread with some fresh baking eggs.
Some people eat bacon in the household, pancakes, waffles, whatever

(55:17):
it is.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
And then for lunch.

Speaker 7 (55:20):
Every years, different as vegetarians were like, what should we
substitute the turkey for this year? But yeah, it depends.
I don't even think i'll tell you because it sounds
gross to most people. But whatever, I love mashed potatoes.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
If that helps.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I like the little teas and then the we're not
going to share that secrets, Yeah, secrets. Who's the pupper
that's showing up here with you? Who's your guest?

Speaker 6 (55:45):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (55:45):
My guest disappeared.

Speaker 7 (55:47):
But we have three dogs, so when they're awake, they
love to just poke their head in and try and
get some attention.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
But I think that was milo.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Well, let me ask, like, what helps you find hope
and connection this time of year.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
It's a good question.

Speaker 7 (56:04):
Connection I think is created at this time of year
for us, at least, just because there's such intentional, carved
out time where you get to be together without distractions.

Speaker 8 (56:18):
So throughout the year, you know, life gets busy.

Speaker 7 (56:20):
You know, you might get a weekend here and evening here,
which is great and I cherish those moments. But over Christmas,
it's like three solid days where everyone puts everything aside.
There's no work to go to, there's no shopping to do,
there's no errands to run, and we just get to
really expand that space for each other. And even if
that is watching movies together, just laying around and chatting.

(56:44):
Sometimes people go for their naps on Christmas afternoon because
of all the excitement, you know, But whatever it is,
I just love creating that space of connection and real
quality time because quality time is one of my love languages,
and so I love the opportunity for lots of quality time,
not just little snippets of it. And then in terms
of hope, I don't really know how to answer that question,

(57:06):
to be honest with you, but I think just the
energy in the air around Christmas, at least for me,
because I do have positive experiences with Christmas, it just
feels so positive and hopeful and excited, and so it's
just a feeling.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah. I love that I can feel that that energy
and the enthusiasm as you share about the day. And
I just have one more question for you for people
who are listening, what do you hope that they might
feel or remember as they spend their own Christmas Day.
I think you've shared a lot of great things here, like,
is there anything specific you'd like to share with our listeners? Sure?

(57:45):
I think you know.

Speaker 7 (57:46):
I know for many people Christmas is not a happy time.
It can be really a lonely time and just or
a reminder of people that we don't have to celebrate
it with. You know, I think it's really important to
honor that. But I just I hope that people can
find those who do matter in their lives and be
able to create just connection with them, right even if

(58:09):
it's just sending a text or a letter or hopping
on a call with somebody and being able to wish
them a merry Christmas or happy Holidays or whatever it is,
and just take the opportunity to slow down and let
the people that you know in your life, let them
know how much that they do mean to you, because

(58:30):
you know, it is that time where we often do
think of those that we love and we want to
send some wishes to them. So I hope that everyone
is able to do that for others in their life,
but also in turn then receiving love and connection as well.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I really love that, like taking that chance to slow
down and then just like really this encouragement to reach out. Well,
thank you, thanks so much for being here today, Brian,
and thanks for sharing this time with us. I know
you have a busy holiday day, and so I was
wondering if you'd be willing to, uh grab your sister

(59:04):
Brittany and we'll see if she has anything that she
would like to share.

Speaker 7 (59:08):
Absolutely, I'm sure she has a minute, so I.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Will get her.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Thanks Anne, all right, thanks a lot. Brian, Hey Brittany,
how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Are you doing well?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
How are you all doing well? I love your sweater?

Speaker 8 (59:20):
Thank you. I had to dress up for Christmas.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Today, so yeah, I like the I like the poppy
on there. We met. We met a puppy earlier.

Speaker 5 (59:29):
You went met one of ours?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Yeah, yeah, the one I think it was Milo, Brian said,
came and cam and popped his head over. I just saw,
I saw a little black on the corner there.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (59:41):
They like to make themselves known and be part of
all the excitement.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
So let me just ask, like, kind of what are
what are some of the things that you enjoy about Christmas?

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (59:54):
I've been giving it a lot of thought this week.
I know Brian was mentioning too. There's just this kind
of element of connecting and family time and quality time
that is so special that has really meant a lot
to us. But I think for me, as a child
who was very just sad, depressed, most of the time disconnected,

(01:00:18):
lonely and introvert at that too. I think Christmas was
a way for me to just look forward to something
and really just kind of get my mind out of
the darkness to something that I knew would bring me
some joy and connection. And so for me, it was, yeah,

(01:00:42):
this kind of just special time. And with yeah, I
think dad being sick too, it was like watching him
come out and just him be a little kid again
and just be silly and get us excited and then
just find little ways to connect with us. And then
my mom she connected with us in different ways too
that she didn't normally. And then I think because our

(01:01:05):
family was quite our complex, trauma separated us all, so
we were all kind of like our own little islands
in our own pain that Christmas was a time for
us to come together for you know, no other reason
then to just be together. We didn't have extended family
that we spent time with or you know a lot

(01:01:26):
of friends that we brought into that experience. It was
just like an intentional time for us to just be
together and create special memories. So I think that's to me, what, yeah,
why feels so special for me?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
It sounds like there's been kind of a lot of
change for you over the years, moving from maybe more
of the complex trauma lends and your own sadness and loneliness.
How would you say your understanding of what makes meaningful
has changed over the years.

Speaker 8 (01:02:03):
I know for a long time because I also went
into like fantasy a lot as a kid, that Christmas
just became like this fantasy magical experience that became unhealthy
in a lot of ways. It was like all these
expectations of what it should be, of what I needed
it to be to continue getting me out of myself,

(01:02:25):
to fix my problems, et cetera. That's what it kind
of was to some degree growing up. But now it's like, yeah,
I don't know, just learning how to create my own
Christmas that's realistic for me, reality for me, but also
just finding joy in the small moment. So you know,

(01:02:46):
I had to let go of some of the traditions
that I just did because I had to do it,
and it was, you know, what was part of the
magical experience. But once I started getting more honest about it,
it was like, well, this is actually just more stress
and it brings joy anymore. So let's I don't need
to do that anymore. Let's just kind of shift the

(01:03:06):
focus to just doing things or getting things to kind
of what is most meaningful, which is the quality time
connection stuff. So it became a lot less of the
expected traditions or the usual traditions, to just creating our

(01:03:27):
own Christmas, even our own family with our students. What
can we do to make it special for them but
also within our capacity and what we all need.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
That's kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Vague, but that's kind of what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
No, I love that, and I want to There's a
lot of tenderness in what you're sharing. And I was wondering,
as you talk about kind of moving away from expected
traditions to creating your own traditions, would you be willing
to share what one or two of the traditions that
you've you've created that are maybe unique to you and
your family.

Speaker 8 (01:04:04):
Mm hmm, sure, Yeah, I could probably list quite a few.
We've kind of even narrowed down a lot of these.
Still still still simplifying, but you know, we've done like
little activities throughout November and December just to build up
to Christmas. So we do like we go see like

(01:04:25):
a Christmas performance, a dance performance every year, go to
see Christmas lights in a park nearby, and I've just
experienced that in different ways. We you know, have Christmas
Eve every year where we just play games and eat
lots of good food and that's about all we do,

(01:04:47):
and then go to bed early so we can wake
up really early. Our dad used to wake us up
at like four in the morning because his little kid
just came out and wanted to just get us all excited,
and he'd drag us up to bed, and you know,
things like that. We don't get up at four in
the morning anymore, but we get up early to open

(01:05:08):
our stockings and watch movies. We don't do a whole
lot on Christmas, but just eat eat good food and
watch movies and open presents. Even that, we used to
do a lot of presents for our kids, but now
it's like, I don't know, I've just done with the stuff.
So we just get more little meaningful things and then

(01:05:29):
coming up with more creative gift ideas to create experiences,
not just things. And one of my favorite traditions of
Christmas too was my dad always put up the Christmas
tree on November one every year. Part of it was again,
I think, to create that excitement that moving towards something.

(01:05:51):
But the other fun part was pushing my mum's buttons
because she hated Christmas stuff up in November because it
just got dusty and dirty and her oasty deal would
come out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
But so she's dying that I'm saying that.

Speaker 8 (01:06:08):
But part of my dad and I's connection and humor
was pushing her buttons and just out of love and laughter,
but just finding little things like that to connect with
and get excited about. So things like that and cinnamon
buns on Christmas morning just one of our favorite breakfast things.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
And yeah, I.

Speaker 8 (01:06:33):
Don't know, there's nothing really special or stand outy, but
it's just like these little experiences or together.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah, that's really what I'm hearing, is like a lot
of just creating a lot of little like I don't
want to use the word little in a diminutive way,
but like meaningful, meaningful experiences and really really celebrating the
experience together. Well, I really appreciate that, Brittany, and I
really appreciate you sharing that. Would you do you have

(01:07:05):
any maybe final words, anything you'd want to offer or
share to our community and our listeners here for the holidays.

Speaker 8 (01:07:15):
I know that many people don't have what we have
with family and connection, and I think, to me, even
you know, stuff that we've gone through, I think one
of the things that I like to hold on to
hope in and offer hope to others is that kind

(01:07:36):
of creating your own family can bring just as much
joy and connection even creating, Yeah, the family that we
have with our students and our adopted kids, it's like, yeah,
it's it's not blood, but it's just the people that
you invite into your life that create that hope for safety,

(01:07:58):
for connection, for a safe place to come home to.
And I know that a lot of people still struggle
with where do you find those safe people? Which is
always the struggle, But I do believe that more and
more people are getting there and working on themselves, and
that there is hope for that for people, and just

(01:08:20):
for people to find kind of the healing and connection
in those communities because it's so important. And I hope
that people will continue to keep finding the right people
that they can experience those connection points with.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yeah, I love that, And thanks for sharing. Thanks for
sharing that message with us, Brittany, and I want to
just wish you a merry Christmas and happy holiday and
the happy new Year here. And I appreciate you you
coming on with us today. And I know, I know
she's probably biting at the bit, especially if she could
hear you there. And so if you want to grab uh,

(01:08:57):
I want to grab Kim and put her on the
hot seat for a minute. We'd love to have her.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
Thanks, Andy, Merry Christmas to YouTube, Merry Christmas, see you.
I'm absolutely terrified, are you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Hey, Kim?

Speaker 8 (01:09:10):
Don't you have any nice filters on this to get
rid of my wrinkles?

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
No, we just we just get to appreciate the full,
the full you.

Speaker 8 (01:09:18):
Yeah, I'd prefer without wrinkles, but okay, I'll just do
that on my zoom calls.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Yeah, well, Mary, Merry Christmas, KiB It's nice to see
you here today.

Speaker 8 (01:09:29):
Nice to see you too, Andy. Did you have a
merry Christmas so far?

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
It's been a really good day so far. Well, it's
a good connection with people, excellent. Yeah, So I have
stuff like I want to have our own conversation, but
I want to give you a chance to respond to
the to the dusty comment at all?

Speaker 8 (01:09:50):
Can you believe she's I kept telling her it can't
go up November one, I will not dust Christmas ornaments,
and when it's up for seven weeks, I dust Dismas ornaments.
So yeah, that's been a bone of contention.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Mmmm mm hmmm. So so, given given how contentious the
lead up to Christmas could be for you, uh, what
are some some ways some things that help you stay
grounded or connected through it?

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:10:19):
I do a lot of self care, so I know
when the girls, so those who don't know, we act
tim and I live in the basement of a girl's house,
so when they're when there ever going shopping, I tag.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Along and we do our thing.

Speaker 8 (01:10:32):
But I also know that I need a lot of downtime,
so I need to be home by a certain time
so I can sit on my couch and do whatever.
But we also have a sauna in our basement, so
lots of saunas, lots of relaxation, lots of breathing. They
have really lowered my expectations of what happens at Christmas time.
So if I can jump into what Christmas is like

(01:10:54):
was like for me growing up, it was all about perfection,
it was all about everything.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Everybody was together.

Speaker 8 (01:11:01):
There was just massive events going on so as much
as my family of origin can't have a deep conversation,
and they're fairly we just talk about very superficial things.
We were always together at Christmas, like big events like
we're talking twenty people Grandmas and Grandpa's and cousins and whatever,
and it was always and so I love that as
a kid because it was festive and lots going on.

(01:11:24):
I saw in hindsight, of course, I saw my mom
so stressed for three weeks beforehand. So when Tim and
I moved out to Winnipeg, so we were in southern Ontario,
we moved out to Winnipeg, we didn't have any family,
like zero family for Christmas times, and so I took
it upon myself to put this perfect, beautiful events on

(01:11:46):
and the turkey had to be perfect, and the you know,
the festivities were great. However, I couldn't do it to
the extent that the whole big family did because it
was always just a huge exciting So I tried to
put on Christmas and I usually spent Christmas Day crying
because it's like all the expectations and you heard from

(01:12:08):
one of the girls, Tim would wake them up at
four or five in the morning open presence, big excitement
for an hour and then it was a normal day
like every other other than me cooking all day and
I cried all day because I was like, this is
so boring, this is lonely. I'm so desperately lonely without family. Now,
every three years we tried to take the track. We
drived to Florida, where our family spent Christmas, and it

(01:12:31):
was thirty three hour drive. But the two of the
three years that we stayed at home, it was depressing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
It was very, very sad.

Speaker 8 (01:12:39):
But it was because of my own perfectionism and everything
had to be big and I just couldn't make it
big at all?

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Could you? I think that's like so so just interesting
to note. I love I love your use of the
term of like just lowering expectations talking about the perfectionism
and the stress and how like just kind of lowering
your expatients kind of how does the season change for you?
How does the day change for you?

Speaker 8 (01:13:06):
Like in terms of physical stuff that I actually lowered
the expectations.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Well, no, from the emotional from spending the day crying
and in stress, Like, how has that changed? Like what's
the dynamic for you now as you're not so in
the perfectionist world right right.

Speaker 8 (01:13:23):
So that took me many years to figure out what
was going on. Remember, I was still only doing my
healing journey in my forties, so I cried for twenty years,
well fifteen years. So when I started to do my
healing journey, just everything changed in terms of paying attention
to what was going on. Before I was just this

(01:13:43):
control freak and bossing everybody around. When I started to
sit back and start noticing what was going on and
recognizing that somebody didn't want to do what I was
demanding everybody do again, I went through another grief cycle.
What do you mean you don't want to spend the
whole day eight hours playing games and running around and
doing fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
What do you mean you don't want to?

Speaker 8 (01:14:05):
So I married an introvert, Tim's inn introvert, but a
couple of my kids just didn't want to do that.
So that was again a grief of the loss of
what I thought Christmas would look like. So then fast
forward to moving here like five years ago, four years ago,
I can't remember now, it was all of a sudden, Okay,
things are different now. I was able to sit back

(01:14:25):
and let Brittany and brand do the Christmas because they
had the bigger house and we had Tim and I
lived in their little, weak condo, so it was now
passing over the baton to them. So they did the
decorations and I didn't want to have a say in
it anymore. So there was this huge shift in me
where I didn't have to control everything and make everything big.

(01:14:47):
I would sit back and let them do it, and
I actually had fun just observing what was going on,
and it's like, so they like that. I never would
have thought, so I let them do it. Not that
I had any choice about letting them do it, but
they just did it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
So it was really.

Speaker 8 (01:15:03):
Exciting to actually see I didn't have to do it all,
and they were at that point, they were in their thirties,
so I got to sit back and just really enjoy.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
The day, and I did.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
I love that, Like, I think there's two things I
just want to pull out of that that I really
loved hearing you say. And one is kind of like
not having to be the hero and take care of
everybody else. And then also just that like letting go,
loosening up on control a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
That was hard to do, but I'm glad I did it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that you've been able
to do that, and I want to I want to
ask you about one other like special thing. I know
that on you know that you throughout the year sometimes
but also today and on Christmas Day you'll do reading
children's books to members of the of the lift community.

(01:15:55):
And I know that I've taken advantage of that. Some
of my past Christmas is not having, you know, people
to be with or a place to go. And so
I just want to I'd like to know kind of
like what what brought that about for you, kind of
what you're hoping to impart through doing that. What does

(01:16:16):
that mean to you?

Speaker 8 (01:16:17):
Well, I'm going to try not to get emotional, because
I already feel the emotions rise a little bit around
that question.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
I'm an early.

Speaker 8 (01:16:25):
Childhood educator as well, so I loved reading stories to kids.
I loved their eyes lighting up and the excitement and
the imagination. Then I started hearing when I started doing
lift and react and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
I started to people.

Speaker 8 (01:16:38):
I would read a story and people would say wow,
in my entire life, I've never had a story read
to me, and that that broke something in me. It's like, really,
that was just a huge part of not just my
growing up, but the kid, my kid's growing up. So
I started to do some reading stories to So I
started to do it throughout the year, and then at
Christmas came around and I went, I want to do that.

(01:17:01):
And I'll tell you the bond that I feel now.
I've heard from some people they just love that Christmas
Morning story time. I'll be dynamic and exciting, but it's
just sitting down with people that I love and care
about and we get just to get to spend an
hour together. Now, it really is one of the highlights
of my day. Yeah, we have all our family stuff
and it's great, but sitting down with the people that

(01:17:24):
I consider my family because my parents have died in
the last year, so my sister is still doing all
this stuff, but I have no interest in really going
there because I love our traditions and I love being
with people who are healing and growing and being part
of our family of lift and just spending that hour

(01:17:45):
with them, I get very I'm very touched by it.
I'm very moved by it. So yeah, see I didn't cry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
No, and I just you know I appreciate it too,
and I'm so glad that you've done that and that
you just that you give that gift to people as
somebody's who's benefited from that space. Just kind of the
warmth and the comfort that you and the care that
you give to others during the holidays. It's been so
important and so beautiful.

Speaker 8 (01:18:14):
Thanks Andy. I wanted to share something that I'm doing
with my kids because again, we live in the basement,
so we're all just kind of working together and spending
time together. This year, for the first year, I'm actually
doing the Twelve Days of Christmas with my girls. So
the night before and again I'm doing it January first

(01:18:34):
to the twelfth just because sorry, December first to the twelfth,
because it just gets too crazy around Christmas time. So
every morning I'm going to be leaving a little gift
for them. Now they have two students with what they
live with right now, so there's the four or the
five girls. We actually have five girls right now, and
we're going to be I'm going to be leaving little
gifts in tune with the Twelve Days of Christmas. So

(01:18:56):
pair smell smelling candles and golden rings. The Golden Donuts
and you know French, you know. So I'm doing that
and I am so pumped for it. I can hardly
sleep at night thinking about this exciting event that we're
going to do for them. And I know it's going
to be meaningful because for my girls, for Brittany and Brian,
it's more about the thought going into the gift. I mean,

(01:19:19):
none of them really have the love language of gifts,
but it's the thought that goes into it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
And I've always been really bad at that.

Speaker 8 (01:19:25):
When I go shopping, I pick up things that are
on sound, go oh, this will go well in there,
stocking in this, but it doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
It's not a thoughtful gift.

Speaker 8 (01:19:32):
So this is going to be that event where I've
spent weeks and weeks preparing, and I wrote little poems
for each of the mornings, and it's going to be
a surprise, and we all love surprises in our family,
So I just wanted to share that it's going to
be very exciting. So by the time they hear this
on the actual Christmas Day, it'll be all passed, so it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
Won't be a surprise. But I didn't want them here
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Yeah, that sounds really sweet, and I can see your
your excitement as you think about that too, And so
my question for you is, you know, just if you
have any final words for our listeners, for our community,
and maybe especially if there is somebody who's kind of
still in that, maybe that perfectionistic performance mindset, what words

(01:20:20):
would you offer for them for Christmas?

Speaker 8 (01:20:23):
Well, because I've been there, I can honestly say nobody
cares if it's perfect, and it just sets us up
for failure. And again, like I talked about how hard
that was for me, there's no way you can get
it perfect. I mean, the you know Hallmark commercials and
the you know movies and stuff they say that is doable.
It's not, and nobody cares. So lower your expectations make

(01:20:46):
your life easier. Just be present with your kids, Just
be present with whoever is there, and that will mean
more than having this perfect, glamorous event.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
I love that, and I love the resonance of the
word present with present and one of the greatest gifts
you can give on Christmas and in the holidays and
ever is your presence to somebody else. That's really beautiful. Well,
thank you, thank you for being here with me. Today, Kim,
it was really nice chatting with you. Thank you and

(01:21:15):
Merry Christmas. I hope your day goes great. Thank you.
If you wouldn't mind, if you could grab Tim and
we'll chest right over here. Okay, excellent, here we go,
Tim mud I love I love the red shirt.

Speaker 9 (01:21:29):
Well I figured it had to be a Christmas Eve shirt,
so's it's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Thanks for Thanks for taking a few minutes to close
this out here. Hopefully it's gone well yeah, yeah, I
really appreciate it talking to all the women in your
life and getting some of that authenticity and some of
the vulnerability, but also some really meaningful conversation. And let

(01:21:55):
me let me ask you, if we spend a few
minutes here together, you walk so many people through healing
and hope, what does this season bring up for you?

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
Now?

Speaker 9 (01:22:04):
I would look at it like just historically two perspectives,
So me as a kid and me as a dad,
and I think me as a kid, it was Christmas
was always lots of activities, lots of family stuff, not
tons of tradition, but meaningful traditions, and so it was
very positive. It was when we got together with extended

(01:22:27):
family and we lived in a part of Canada where
we only saw them once a year and it was
usually Christmas, so it was you know, big family get together,
lots of very positive memories. So to me, Christmas was
always a very positive thing. But I have a very
vivid memory in my teens where I think what began

(01:22:49):
to happen was in my teens, I started having some
depression that I wasn't even aware of, and so there
was an element of Christmas. There was a fantasy that
it was going to be this over the top, positive, warm,
made me feel good experience. And I remember the first
time walking away from a Christmas and feeling quite empty.

(01:23:11):
It hadn't filled all the pots, it hadn't satisfied, and
it was just realizing don't. Thankfully I was able to
process it was don't expect that event to be a
magic fix to your life. It's only a small piece
to it. But what was interesting to me, even as

(01:23:32):
a teen was hearing other people when I mentioned it, said,
oh yeah, they've gone through that too, and it's like
your heart is longing for that perfect, almost heaven garden
of Eden paradise experience, and we kind of equate it
with Christmas because of all of the kind of Hollywood

(01:23:54):
versions of it that we think it's going to be
that and then it's not. And it's what I what
I began to realize, and I didn't have the words
for it back then, but what I began to realize
is that the Christmases that were the most meaningful were
the ones where there was the most connection. It wasn't
the rituals, it wasn't all of that, it was whether
there was really meaningful connection. So when I became a dad,

(01:24:17):
like Kim came out of, we got it like tons
of you got to do it this way. You have
these traditions. I got a tradition means nothing to me.
I don't want that tradition. So we had our conflict
around that, but it was like, I want to create
traditions for my kids and us as a family that
means something to us and enable us to connect. And

(01:24:39):
I think if you talk to our son and Briton Brian,
it's the times where to me, they felt positive emotions
and connection that made Christmas meaningful. Everything else they didn't
care about. It didn't matter to them. Is there connection,
Is there something positive as far as producing positive emotions?

(01:25:00):
And so that really became I think, kind of a
guide for me in wanting to create not just stressful, endless,
meaningless rituals, but opportunities for true connection. And so I
was thinking outside of the box but finding things that
and it was different for each kid. So I remember

(01:25:22):
Brittany as a little kid, she loved music. So Christmas Eve,
I would turn off all the lights, there just be
the Christmas tree. Then we put on a whole bunch
of candles, so it'd be this very warm and kind
of ambiance in the room, and then we would sing.
And so we'd start with having music playing and then
I'd turn the music off and then we'd sing some

(01:25:44):
Christmas Girls together, and so you could just see her
responding to that. And then Brianne loved just warm, emotional
stories and watching a movie together and then it would
be a really a heartwarming movie that really moved you,
and then she wanted to talk about it and snuggle.

(01:26:05):
And my son liked he liked reading Calvin and Hobbes,
so he'd Recvin and Hobbs and watch some silly movies
and laugh, and that was very special. So it was
just finding what worked for each kid individually, and then
what we could do as a family that created that
sense of connection.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
I love that. And what I'm hearing from you is
it's not just connection, but there's really this very attuned
aspect of that connection. And I think especially what your
daughter said that's like really come out, is that's that
quality time, that connection that really makes the season for them.

Speaker 9 (01:26:43):
Yeah, And I think what I saw with that is
so connection with my kids, and I think it's pretty
much across the board. There were really two key elements.
There needed to be lots of fun, lots of laughter,
and so I had to act silly. I had to
Kelvin and Hobbes and different things movies that were funny.
But there needed also to be real emotional warmth that

(01:27:05):
came with the connection too, And so fun and warmth,
emotional connection warmth to me became those really two guiding
lights in what we did together.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
And I was wondering, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay this
really broadly, and I know you can handle that for
people who are who are listening, who are maybe maybe
they're going through grief or loneliness, struggling with this connection
or just maybe struggling with kind of their their mental
health or hurting in some way. Kind of what kind

(01:27:39):
of hope or encouragement would you want to share with
those who are listening today.

Speaker 9 (01:27:44):
Well, I think like to me, what was really helpful
to me coming out of very much the Hollywood romanticized
version of Christmas was being a pastor in those younger
days and having to preach Christmas on the Christmas story.
But I had to go back and study the Christmas

(01:28:04):
story within the culture what was happening, and what I
found out was there wasn't a whole lot of fun
and happiness in that. That was one of the most stressful, difficult,
hard times in the lives of Mary and Joseph, and
it was a really, really tough time and so that
to me was very validating. It took a lot of

(01:28:25):
that fantasy out of it and just said, Christmas isn't
about creating a fantasy in external circumstances. Christmas is about
being where you are and doing what's right and connecting
with others in love. And yeah, you may not have
unicorns and rainbows, but you might have a joy that

(01:28:48):
you would not have. And I think that's what I
learned as a kid, is you could have this romanticized Christmas.
But if you didn't have connection, there was an emptiness.
And so it's really kind of inverting what her society
has done by focusing on the externals and really focusing
on the relational element is really the priority of what

(01:29:11):
makes Christmas?

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
You're sharing about kind of moving from this the fantasy
Hollywood version, and would you be willing to talk just
like a little bit more kind of I think one
for one of the things that people healing is we
expect and we want a life that's a life of comfort.
We expect a life of comfort and ease. And Christmas

(01:29:32):
is one of those holidays where we kind of hundred
x that. And what I heard you saying is, you know,
and especially talking about like the original Christmas story, that
it's something that's like uncomfortable, And could you maybe talk
just a little bit about like the relationship with discomfort
or an ability to face or accept painful or uncomfortable experiences.

Speaker 9 (01:29:55):
Yeah, I think that to me, there's two things. So
society is really basically made joy all about external circumstances.
So if you get the right external circumstances, you'll be happy.
And I go, yeah, you'll have pleasure, But that doesn't
make happiness. Happiness must have connection as the main ingredient,

(01:30:15):
and then it doesn't matter a whole lot what the
external circumstances are, because I think we're made for connection
as the source of joy or happiness. Of the problem
with complex trauma is people have never experienced secure attachment,
so they've never experienced that emotion of that joy they

(01:30:37):
and so you look for it in externals. It's really
beginning to connect with yourself, connecting with one or two
safe people, and you begin to experience, Wow, this is
an amazing feeling of just that two vulnerable people being
open and connecting and not judging and having empathy for

(01:30:57):
each other is an amazing thing. But this second thing
I think is the complex trauma child mind is it's
all or nothing. So if I'm not experienced one hundred
percent joy, then life sucks. And it's realizing that I
can have grief, I can have pain, I can have frustration,
but I can still have joy mixed in with that.

(01:31:20):
And so it's really learning that it's very, very very
seldom that you get pure joy and no other emotion.
We call that ecstasy or euphoria, and that happens very rarely.
Most of the time we experience joy in the midst
of other emotions that are negative, and so it's learning
to find that joy, focus on the joy, not focus

(01:31:40):
on all the negative emotions, which we tend to do,
but say, yeah, I'm dealing with the loss here, I'm
dealing with the frustration here, I can sit in that.
It's not going to kill me. I'm managing it. Well,
I'm just going to enjoy joy in the midst of
all of that. And so it's just beginning to realize
that joy is always part of a mix of emotions

(01:32:03):
as the norm. And so for people think going into
Christmas is validate all the negative emotions that you're feeling.
Be honest about it. Yeah, life sucks right now. I
can hardly pay my bills, my kids are rebelling, my
relationship sucks. Life isn't good. But I've found a couple
connections that are very meaningful and I'm going to celebrate that.

(01:32:27):
I'm going to focus on that and be thankful for that.
And that to me is Okay, you got a taste
of joy. You got some joy in the midst of life,
and that's reality. Reality is not euphoria constantly that's again
that's a fantasy that's given to us by Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Yeah, I love that, and I think that's a little
bit of a refrain that I've heard through the rest
of your family is moving from that fantasy, the fantasy
of what joy is, the euphoria version, and then coming
into more of a grounded reality and hear what I
hear from you is that it can be complex, but
we can also be very intentional about how we think

(01:33:10):
about things that approach things, especially this time of year.
Let me let me ask you before before we invite
the rest of your family back for a final, final
goodbye and final greeting, there is there any final words
that you would like to share to our listeners or
our community as they're celebrating the holiday today.

Speaker 9 (01:33:30):
What I think is part of being realistic about Christmas
is be realistic that I may not end up having
this year a perfect Christmas or I have all the
hundred things I'd love to include as part of my
Christmas as part of it, but I can add one
or two things this year that add meaning connection, where
I learn to use new tools, where I learn to

(01:33:53):
create a surrogate family that that might not seem like
a whole lot in light of the hundred things I do,
But do that, celebrate that, and next year you can
add a couple more, and then a couple more. And
so if you see that your experience of Christmas is
going to be a progression of developing greater and greater

(01:34:14):
capacity for meaningful Christmases, then you're not going to be
disappointed or down on yourself. I didn't do as good
a job as I should have, et cetera. So kind
of accept where you're at and accept that this is
a gradual progression of growing into adding things that make
it even more and more meaningful. And then I think

(01:34:35):
that the other piece to me is so many people
coming a complex trauma. There's a codependency that says I
need to make Christmas. I need to do what you
want to do. So I need to do your traditions.
I need to go and visit all these people because
they want me to. And you burn yourself out, you
go broke buying gifts for everybody, and you're afraid to

(01:34:58):
set boundaries because then people would be upset or annoyed
at you. But make this about you and your your
family and say the purpose of boundaries is to protect
us that we can have the space and the money
and the time to do meaningful stuff together. And if

(01:35:19):
I offend a few people and they have hurt feelings,
you know what, I'm sorry, but that's on them. That's
not my priority. My priority is creating boundaries that enable
us to have the space to grow and to heal
and to really develop and progress in meaningful Christmases. And
I think, you know, the first year, you're going to
feel quite awkward and insecure, and shame might come up.

(01:35:44):
But after a couple of years you start you're going
to start feeling comfortable that hey, this is really working
and it's making a difference. And I'm glad that I
set some boundaries those sort of things that I think
are really important for people. And the early days.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
You know, to there's there's you you cover this in
a way where there's like there's the part of me
that still gets so frustrated. It's it's like but today,
but now, And this is one of the things that
I really appreciate about you as well as like you're
not going to blow smoke at somebody, but to have
a sense of reality and groundedness of you know, over time,

(01:36:26):
working on your acceptance, over time, working on your agency,
but really over time, and this time could be years
learning how to take more care of yourself and love
yourself better. This is what I heard you say.

Speaker 9 (01:36:41):
Yeah, and just one very practical, like I remember when
we were first married, and then it's like, okay, now
we got Kim's family, we got my family, got our family,
we got we're living in Winnipeg's we got people there,
and so it was like we could be running ragged
trying to please everybody. So Kim and I just said,
you know what, we got to decide what we need

(01:37:03):
and we want and that's the priority here, and we're
not going to be able to please everybody. It's impossible.
And I just think if people can start with that,
what are my needs, what are my kids needs? That's
my priority and so let's just really make that the focus.
And so we went to my parents and Kim's parents

(01:37:25):
and said we're going to come Christmas Eve to Kim's
parents and Christmas morning, and then we're going to go
Boxing day to my parents, and then we're going to
best basically spend the rest of the time with just
Kim and the kids and I. But we set very
reasonable but clear boundaries. This is how we're going to
make Christmas happen to It's not going to be kind

(01:37:46):
of what you would expect or have wanted from the past,
but that's the way it's going to be because of
kind of the conditions that we have to live with.
And we're so.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Glad we did that.

Speaker 9 (01:37:57):
I don't know what these parents said behind our back
after we left, but we had set that boundary and
it wasn't being cruel. It was just this is the
reality we have to work with, and here's how we're
trying to make it work.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
And so glad we did it. So yeah, I like
that that last little bit too, of setting a boundary.
You know, it's there's a I forget where this came from,
but it's like I'm acting for me, not against you,
and really being able to do that active self care. Well,
thank you so much, Tim for for everything you do
for this community, for your organization, and for all of

(01:38:35):
our listeners. Such a really grounding reminder of what really
matters this time of year. And before we wrap up,
would you be willing to bring everybody back in just
for a final greeting way to get there? Well, let
me go round them up. Well, I just want to
thank you all for sharing with us today, wish you

(01:38:58):
a merry Christmas and just give you you guys, an
opportunity to just give a Christmas Christmas wave of Christmas
greeting to everybody who's listening to everybody in the community,
and so I want to thank you all. I appreciate
you being here.

Speaker 9 (01:39:12):
Just from all of the Fletchers, we want to wish everybody, uh,
Merry Christmas. We're just very grateful to be part of
lift and to see just all the people and the
lives that are changed. And we know this can be
a difficult time for many people, but we just hope
that this year you'll maybe for the first time, experience

(01:39:35):
some real connection and joy that makes a big difference
in your life this Christmas. Merry Christmas, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
Merry Christmas, y'all. Thank you everybody for joining us today
and wherever you are today, may you feel a sense
of belonging. We hope that this time has reminded you
that you're not alone. There's a place for you here
from all of us at time with tim Merry Christmas,
unhappy holidays. Thank you for joining us on the Time

(01:40:13):
with Tim podcast. If you'd like to share your own
experiences or have questions, feel free to email us at
podcasts at Tim Fletcher dot caa want to learn more
about complex trauma, subscribe to Tim Fletcher's YouTube channel for
past lectures and is Friday Night Tim Talks. You can

(01:40:33):
also connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok.
Looking for more support, we offer programs and courses to
help with healing complex trauma and recovering from addictions. Visit
Tim Fletcher dot ca to learn more or send us
an inquiry. We're here to support you until we meet again.

(01:40:53):
Take care and thank you for letting us be a
part of your healing journey.

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S3E08 | Christmas and Complex Trauma: Finding Connection, Comfort, and New Traditions

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S3E08 | Christmas and Complex Trauma: Finding Connection, Comfort, and New Traditions