Cory Hughes on the Vonu Podcast

https://vonupodcast.com/

https://coryhughes.org

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
And welcome to the Vanni Podcast,the podcast making you and vulnerable to the
corisin of the state and the servilesociety. I'm your host, Shannon,
coming to you from the very tossnote of the fear public of Pasnia.
Today we visit a topic I neverthought we'd cover it all in this FONDS
podcast, at least until TV andOr Mission number fifty three, when I
briefly covered a Kerry Thornley connection toLee rvy Oswald. And despite unknowingly stumbling

(00:23):
across this area, little did Iknow how that little of that note did
I know then how fucking far thisall went on. Not only that,
but this is one conspiracy I gavevery little time too. It was so
long ago, and there's no waythat I that I had the time or
interest to go as deep as isnecessary. I realized that very very early
on in my path. I gota couple of books, JFK books,
and then I realized they're like acouple of thousand out there, and I
had had no idea where to startfrom there. So, um, yeah,

(00:45):
the circa twenty twelve, and Ijust I really didn't think i'd see
an answer in my lifetime at allum, which is uh yeah, until
a couple a couple of weeks agowhen I stumbled across the work of Corey
Hughes on the Rugueways on Rogue Wayswith previous guest Lindsay Sharman. Again,
usually I would never click on apodcast talking about JFK, but I had,
I had little thoughts, you know, I wonder, I wonder if
we'll go into into a Kerry thornletleand uh yeah. Within the span of

(01:07):
like five minutes, I know Iwas honest something significant historically but also in
relevance to this niche of vanuh andself libration that we found ourselves in.
So it introduced it in brief aneditor to innovator in Ocean Freedom Notes,
colleague of RAO, and contributor tothe realm of liberation. Kerry Thornley not
only new Leo Harvey Oswald, butmay have been one of the folks impersonating
him, setting up, setting settinghim up across the country, knowing le
or annoyingly. We can talk aboutthat. But further, Carrie just may

(01:30):
have been involved in the murder ofa police officer at j D Tippets and
uh and just from my perspective seemed. He seemed to be protect be protected
at the highest levels. Even laterin his life, he started to believe
that he may have been set upas another patsy if it was needed,
or that he was a victim ofmkul trim mind control experimentation. Some of
his own words will attest to andsome coming excerpts in terms of conclusions what

(01:53):
this means historically and personally pretending tocarry I'm not so sure, but hopefully
our guest today, Cory Hughes,I'll be able to give us some answers.
I guess just one of the relevantNo. Personally, Uh, this
name has come up in my pathbefore. Um. Some may recall an
old colleague, Gary hunt Well.Gary was accused of being John to number
three I think it was number threein the Oklahoma City bombing by Bill Cooper
actually back in the nineties. Garycleared his name later on, I think

(02:15):
sufficiently relating to hear, I'd justbe curious to find out what a top
notch investigator like Cory'd finding that eventtoo. Kind of seems like the same
modus operating. I just mask confusionand chaos. But anyway, that's for
another time. Without further ado,Corey, Oh, welcome to the Moni
Podcast. Manna, how are youto say? How are you today?
I'm good, thanks for having me, No problem, I don't no problem

(02:35):
at all. So UM yeah,I guess that kind of gives a little
instruction to where where we're coming fromhere. Um and uh yeah, I'm
excited against the JFK and obviously thecarry to only stuff too. But I
guess just to begin, um,since you are a new voice to my
audience, UM, why don't youstart with an introduction? Who are you?
What do you do? And uh? You know what got y'all really
deep into this research? Sure?My name's Corey Hughes. I am a

(02:58):
historian and I have been doing historicalresearch since about twenty fifteen. I do
mostly full time research, although Ido run a podcast publishing company. I
work with Chris Matthews of Forbidden KnowledgeNews. But for the most part,
most of my time for the lastfour or four and a half years has
been on the Kennedy assassination. That'spretty much, in my opinions, the

(03:23):
most important event in American history.It's one of the most important events in
world history, and it was justsick and tired of people kicking the king
down the road. It's been sixtyyears, hundreds of books have been written
on the subject, and not asingle goddamn person has come up with any
answers. And I was just sickof it. I was a cop for
about eight and a half years.I've got thousands of hours of training and

(03:46):
experience and actual investigations, and sowhen I approach to Kennedy assassination, I
did it with a background and actuallyknowing what I'm what I was doing as
far as researching and putting together acriminal case. And I think that's one
of the big problems with most ofthe Kennedy researchers out there, is they
don't have any kind of real trainingor background in investigations. Because I look
at some cases or some incidents withinthe Kennedy assassination where they, you know,

(04:09):
looking at it from the respective ofa cop, the evidence is clear
that it points at at one particularperson. But you know, the Kennedy
research community will debate and bicker backand forth for fifty years. Told the
waters are so muddy, nobody hasany idea what they're talking about in the
first place. And then that Ihave no doubts as part of some co
intel pro infiltration. I mean,I know this is to be the case

(04:29):
because I've been banned from every JFKforum, Facebook group, you name it.
I cannot participate in any of thosebecause as soon as I start talking
about who was really behind the assassination, and as soon as I start correcting
people who think they knew what theywere talking about, who've been doing this
for forty years, they didn't reallyappreciate that. And so yeah, I
don't get a warm welcome in anyof the JFK or historical research groups.

(04:53):
Yeah. Yeah, that's uh Iguess, certainly, Yeah, certainly.
Uh yeah, I guess it iswhat it is. But uh um,
we're glad to have you here toto talk about it, So I guess,
uh um, Yeah, it's goahead and get into it and your
seven hour amazing JFK presentation, whichI've I've probably watched a few times a
few times by now, um inthe past that we can do the whole
thing, yeah, multiple times.Yeah. I wonder people, I wonder

(05:14):
if people can never make it throughthe whole thing now, not in one
sitting, obviously, it's a longwatch. Yeah, I mean it took
me over the course of like probablythree days to we'll go through it three
times. But um, but yeah, um yeah, it was great,
pretty And I went through a coupleof other ones too, right that you
have one on your channel. I'mnot sure if the ones that you did,
but they're ones that are up thereat least. But uh um,
I mean yeah, in that inthat documentary on JFK, you you harp
on a couple necessary points of understandingwhich I think are important for I guess

(05:36):
our background here. Um. Oneis that World War One and World War
Two are necessary prerequisites ton are stayingin the JFK assassination and really even our
world today, and alongside that andunderstanding of psychological warfare and it's use over
the twentieth century. Um. Now. The other is that when it comes
to JFK, looking at connections betweenindividuals is the key. Not looking at
like, you know, all theI guess, all the evidence per se,

(05:58):
but just looking at the connections.Right. I guess that's those are
kind of some important important things Ithink we should I guess. So,
yeah, if you could just kindof lay out there and give us a
little framework for understanding here. Yeah, I know, you just picked out
some like incredible points that I alwayswonder if people will catch that you picked
out some of the definitely some ofthose important things that relationships between people is
everything. If you don't understand therelationships, you will not be able to

(06:20):
interpret the evidence. Like particularly withKerry Thornley. There's a lot of obfuscation
around New Orleans and Kerry Thornley betweennineteen sixty and nineteen sixty three because he
does travel a bit in that timeprint period, but he is mostly based
out of New Orleans, and theywent to great lengths to hide the relationship
that he had with Clay Shaw andDavid Ferry. But you know, between

(06:44):
sixty one and sixty three, himand David Ferry had been roommates for a
time and they Kerry Thornley had beenliving with David Ferry in the early part
of nineteen sixty three, which connectsus back to like the party with Perry
Russo where he claims to have metOswald going under the alias Leon Oswald,
but he claimed that Oswald had whiskersand that when he had met him previously

(07:06):
he had a big, bushy beard. Right he was a bearded Beatnick is
how he described him. And sowhen you come to understand the relationships between
the people down in New Orleans,it's obvious there's only one bearded beat Nick
in the cast of characters, andthat's Kerry Thornley. And he was Ferry's
roommate for a time. So twowas two, week was four. And
this really isn't rocket science. Itreally just takes, you know, common

(07:28):
sense analysis of the facts. Andsee, this is one point that has
been still debated for the last sixtyyears. It drives me up a goddamn
wall. It was pretty easy todetermine that was Kerry Thornley. And once
you understand that Kerry Thornley and DavidFerry are very tight, you can start
to plug in some of the Oswaldsightings around New Orleans as Kerry Thornley,
particularly because of locations, there werecertain Oswald sightings at certain bars that Kerry

(07:51):
Thornley was known to frequent, right, So, but yeah, they knew
each other. Kerry Thornley knew Marina, and the fact that he knew Marine
and it was very familiar with bothof them kind of connected some of the
Oswald sightings in Dallas. That didn'tmake sense to be Oswald. Some of
the sightings involving Marina and a childwhere Oswald was driving, even a couple

(08:13):
incidents where he was seen like outnext to a freeway shooting a rifle at
bales of hay right uh, witha with a woman and a child.
So you know that it's not Oswald. And so when you start to understand
the relationships and the connections, itbecomes obvious who was where and what's what
I mean. I don't want tosay it's obvious, because it took me

(08:33):
years to be able to put allthis stuff together, But once you actually
see it, it's like, wow, how can everybody not see it?
You know? Yeah? Yeah,definitely, And I guess I can.
I mentioned to you before we startedthat I had ordered, Um there's a
book called Cotton the Crossfire carry ThrineyLee, Oswald and the Garrison Investigation by

(08:54):
Adam go Rightley. And for me, whenever I whenever I look into a
subject like Vonnie or anything, Ilike took back to the original source material
because the best place to start,and this book has like original letter I
guess letters from Kerry throughout um.You know, throughout I guess twenty or
thirty years and um, there's onesection here. I guess this is because
he was Um, he pretty muchwent nuts by the end of all this
um, which I which I guessif you read this book, it kind
of it makes sense. But hewrote a letter to the types of psycho

(09:16):
psychiatry. I guess the hospital anduh, this is just one part um
and uh and again it confirmed someof the stuff that you some of the
stuff that you've I guess that youpoint out in your research. But he
says, quote I point out todoctor m now with no effort on my
part at all. I've an unusuallylarge number of accused JFK assassins. I
was a college fraternity pledge, brotherof Gordon Novel, a suspect in the

(09:37):
Garrison probe. I was in theMarines of Lee rvy Oswald in New Orleans.
I'm separating and apparently unconnected occasions.I met god Banister, David Ferry,
and Clay Shaw, Garrison's three mainsuspects before the assassination. A few
weeks before the assassination, I discussedkilling Kennedy with David Chandler, a stringer
for life magazine, who was alsoon garrison suspect list after the assassination.

(09:58):
Nineteen sixty eight, I met JimGarrison and as a result of that,
spent some time in the same roomwith Marine Oswald, both accused by various
critics of covering up the assassination conspiracy. Later that year the next in New
Orleans, I jumped in a taxicab driven by Garrison star witness Perry Raymond
Russo in nineteen We're Not Done Yethold On. In nineteen sixty six,
in connection with my duties as editorof Libertarian newsletter, I met Warren Carroll,

(10:18):
accused by May Brussell of an involvementin the Kennedy assassination and the Nazi
connection to the John F. Kennedyassassination. Roll was hl Hunt's propaganda writer,
and his leaflets were found in JackRube's car, among other considerations mentioned
That same year, in a panof any of these meetings, I met
Mafia Dawn Johnny ROSSELLI accusing a skeletonkey to the Gemstone files by Stephanie Kruna

(10:39):
of firing the fatal shot from thegrass Knoll that actually killed the presidents.
If I believe that I've met eightaccused assassins. That three that in three
accused accessories after the fact by coincidence, that now would be crazy. And
I can find myself to the officiallyaccused. At least four others I have
met have been accused in private conversationswith people who seem to know what they
were talking about in quotes. Soway like and we can get more into

(11:01):
Erry Thornley, but it's just likejust that like that quick like Yeah,
there's a lot of connections with KerryThornley. Um, automatically just right off
the right, off the front.So, um, I guess, uh,
let's let's um, I guess anythoughts on that before I guess before
I kind of take us forward.Yeah, that's that's that's killer. Um,
I'm gonna need to pick that bookup. Um. That's uh,
that's some good stuff right there.See. So Kenary Thornley, I don't

(11:24):
know. I'm not, by anymeans an expert on Kerry Thornley. All
of my research on him is basedwith an information in the FBI or Garrison
or Harold Wiseberg files, right,so all of my knowledge of him is
directly Kennedy specific. But a lotof the stuff with Garrison, the investigations,
you know, even past the clayShaw trial, it continued on into

(11:46):
the seventies, right, so umlater on Garrison had picked up a lot
of Kerry Thornley's other work and kindof documented it in his own notes.
So even though it's years past Kennedy, it did fall into the Garrison files
of his Kennedy research, so it'dsaved me some time. But Terry Thornley

(12:07):
is uh, when you read theGarrison files on Thornley, that freaking guy.
I mean, he wouldn't know thetruth if it was choking him to
death, true stage. Yeah,he contradicts himself like every other word he
is. He obviously has intelligence counterinterrogation training, you know, when you

(12:30):
follow him back into the Marines infifty nine. It seems as though as
early as fifty nine he was shadowingOswald in the Marines. He was in
the same location as Oswald at leastthree times. They had to have known
each other. I have evidence that, and this is in the Garrison files,
so it's not really anything secret orhidden. But he was using the

(12:52):
alias of Rick Thornley in at Sugi, posing as a Photograh referring reporter that
was keeping tabs on Oswald's particular unitout there, So there was he was
definitely he was not doing this ofhis own volition, right, So he's
obviously connected to intelligence going back tofifty nine. And that's another distinction I

(13:13):
need to make here about some ofthese cast of characters in New Orleans,
right, so you can kind ofsee the hierarchy of how these operatives worked
together. Claishaw and David Ferry hadboth been CIA since forty seven and both
probably were involved with the OSS priorto that. So they were, but
they were recruited independently, right.They wasn't like Claisha recruited David Ferry.

(13:35):
And so it's the same thing withKerry Thornley. Kerry Thornley was independently recruited.
He wasn't recruited by David Ferry tobe in his little group. Right.
But then you can look at allthe other guys who were surrounding David
Ferry, and most of them wereones that he had recruited from the Civil
Air Patrol and you know, justguys kids he hung around with in New
Orleans who weren't really CIKE agents.But you know, working with him,

(13:58):
and he was most certainly working withthe CIA. So but yeah, Kerry
Thornley, like I said, therelationships between him and David Ferry is paramount,
and they went to great length tohide that relationship because you don't really
find much indicating that they knew eachother. Were statements that they were roommates,
but you have to kind of takethe statements that were picked up later

(14:22):
in retrospect to kind of make thoseconnections. So proving that Kerry Thornley and
David Ferry were roommates is comes fromanecdotal evidence. But of course if it's
a timeline and it becomes obvious whenthere's gaps of obvious information, that those
pieces of information were intentionally hidden.So yeah, yeah, that's that's certainly

(14:43):
it's so I guess one question thatcomes to that. I guess one question
that comes up, and this isthe first time I have I guess the
only reason it's kind of it wasmore kind of entertainment kind of angle.
I looked at it a year ago, but Kerry Thornley thought that he might
have been Um, I guess anmL MK ulture subject and this author Adam
go Rightley point so pooked by Peter. I guess Peter, Peter Uh,
I guess uh. Peter Varenda Vanenda'ssome some researcher I've heard of before.

(15:05):
I've I haven't really looked much intohis work. Peter Levende's Yeah, Peter
Levenda. But basically that um thetwo the two basses overseas in Japan,
I think they were at Sue Gainone other one where they did the I
guess Alex Lst experimentation were actually thetwo bases that they were at UM.
So I guess he makes that connectiontoo. And if you look at UM
and yeah again would I would definitelyrecommend it because um my, I I

(15:26):
but before I knew about any ofthis with Kerry Thorne, I had been
reading him from like libertarian publications,and he was like one hundred percent anti
coercion, um like he would likehe so like, I don't think he
would knowingly like that just from readingit. And I feel like i've I'm
a pretty good judge of like beingable to read people's authenticity. Um,
And maybe I'm not, but anyway, that's how that's that's kind of how
I how I feel. And itdidn't seem like Um, it didn't seem

(15:46):
like didn't seem like that. Butum at the same time, you you
look through his progression and like allthose like in that letter he wrote to
thee of the psychic psychiatry hospital orwhatever psychiatric hospital. Um, he was
going nuts throughout the It's even hisclosest friends. Like, yeah, he
was, he was going he was, he was losing it. Um.
So like it's I guess it's doyou think that's a possibility from anything you've

(16:07):
anything you've dug up that definitely,So um, I would doubt it.
But you know, there's there's definitelya certain aspect of of mk ultra ish
stuff in the Kennedy assassination. Imean David Ferry and Bill Damar, and
like there's at least two other guysinvolved in the cast of characters who were
like hypnotists, And I mean DavidFerry was using hypnotism on guy other than

(16:30):
the kids in the Civil Air Patrolto do things, uh, sexual things,
and so there's an aspect there.Bill Damar was also using a hypnosis
to blackmail cops with Jack Ruby andthe Carousel Club, right, So there's
like that aspect to it. Butwhen it comes to people like Kerry Thornley,
I am more of the opinion thatKerry Thornley was a completely willing participant

(16:52):
in everything. Uh, young kidexcited to join the military. But he
has these you know, um idalisticperhaps views. All the stuff they came
out in the Discordians and all theweird shit later that might have been like
a something within him that he allowedto was allowed to be developed in the
CIA. I mean, they dopersonality tests on these people when they were

(17:14):
crue to you, so they knewwhat kind of person he was, and
they knew what he would be goodfor, right because obviously he gets into
being a propagandist. Garrison had foundthat he had been writing political publications as
far back as sixty sixty one.I didn't really get much attention, and
he definitely went off the deep endwith the Discordian stuff. But I'm you'll

(17:37):
never convince me otherwise that Robert AntonWilson and Kerry Thornley had just maintained CIA
after they after the Kennedy assassination.All that bullshit they did was it was
just so out there that was there'sno chance that that wasn't intelligence connected.
And when you got two guys likeRobert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley, it's
like it's a big CIA op,you know. And it's that all kind

(17:59):
of connects to um, like thepsychedelics and the hippie movement and all that
stuff. You know, because likethe first time that The Grateful Dead played,
uh one of those big farms upin New York, the ten thousand
people, the CIA provided the LSD, you know, so like all this
stuff has an overlap with this weirdpop culture stuff and um, maybe a
little bit, a little bit ofit gets out of hand, right like

(18:21):
they create the creation gets away fromthem. But um, a lot of
it, I think the stuff withparticularly with Thornley, that was all like
CIA app stuff for sure. Yeahand yeah, but and the connections are
pretty undeniable. Um, they reallyare. And that's why it's that's why
it's kind of hard for me to, I guess, to reckon with it
all because even this author who isfriends with and trying to like vindicate Thornley,
m Adam go Rightley, he hasa chapter chapter in this book,

(18:42):
was it Discordy in Front or DiscordianSociety SCIA Front and there's some interesting connections
there too, So like it's it'sreally hard to it's really hard to escape
it. And I guess my,my, my, um my, like
initial inclination was just using a dumband naive but like maybe that's like maybe
that's just like maybe that's like amajor major you know, uh benefit,
Like if you if you can playdown an actum you gotta think like,

(19:04):
um, they have someone like KerryThormly who goes out and does the Discordian
stuff, and what does it do. It attracts a whole bunch of weirdos.
And so what they can do fromthat is that they can use that
as a recruiting pool, right,maybe use them as some experimentation with LSD
and stuff like that. Um,you know, outside the confines of like
an mk ultra laboratory with people gettingstrapped down and stuff. Right, so

(19:26):
they create these little subculture groups anexperiment within them. Um. You know,
I would I would think that thatwould connect to like something like Charles
Manson and all the activities that hewas doing out there, because he was
definitely MK ultra. So you know, there's a fine line between mk ultra
and um just cia doing what theCIA does, you know, right,

(19:48):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that'sthat's uh, that's definitely a good point.
That's definitely a good point. SoUM, now, obviously I will
get back back into carry, butI want to go ahead and kind of
pick up the pick up the threadhere with UM, I suppose with um
with I guess the jfkn kind ofthat back again kind of the Yeah,
I guess I suppose I kind ofwanted to to because I appreciated this,

(20:08):
and again I want to point peoplein direction to be your seminary documentation.
We're not going to get through allthe necessary information today, but um,
you talk a little bit about,like I guess, the nature of the
CIA and the OSS back then,and how all of this could have actually
gone down with you know, havingmultiple Patsy's, multiple ads, waltz um,
you know, sending someone over toRussia you know as a as a
you know, as an infiltrator,could kind of give us an idea of
like the political climate what um,I guess the CI and previously the OSS

(20:32):
we're kind of up to at thattime. I guess you can kind of
get into that. Yeah, Well, the my assess is their main role
is psychological warfare UM, and theypretty much developed all of the tactics that
they still use to this very day. And see the mind um. You
know, psychologists have really kind ofthey understand how the mind works in as
far as how it absorbs information.So the CIA, or prior to the

(20:52):
oss UM, took psychologists who knewhow people absorbed information, and based on
that they designed systems of propaganda thatreally work, you know, and though
they have a playbook. I mean, there's a document called the Doctrine regarding
Rumors. It's one of my favoritedocuments of the oss stash back from World
War Two, and it goes intohow to construct a rumor and like one

(21:17):
are the best one of the thingsto include in a rumor? And give
some examples of rumor design. Andso they are masters at this stuff.
They've had over a hundred they've hadabout one hundred years of practice or eighty
years of practice at this point intwenty twenty two. But the Central Intelligence
Agency initially was just an intelligence agencyand they were in charge of propaganda and
all that stuff. But really itbecame it became way more militant. Today,

(21:38):
it's it's far more militarized in themodern era than it was back then.
Like back then, they weren't callingin the CIA couldn't call in drone
strikes in nineteen sixty three, right, but they can do that today when
its really should be a military function. They didn't really have that option.
But yeah, So the the CIAlike their job is to lie to you,

(22:00):
like that's the whole fucking point ofpsychological warfare and that's their number one
priority. So that's where the mediacomes in and and you know, shaping
the narrative and all that stuff.So right, yeah, yeah, and
I'll mention, so I mentioned theJFK DOT your jfk DO community a number
of time, but there's also oneof psychological warfare that's that's really really a
really great So I'll point the listenersin the direction of that. But yeah,

(22:22):
let's go ahead and pick up withum, you know what you go.
We got Oswald and thorn Oswald andThornley and the Marines. Um Oswald
or I guess Thornley writes starts writingthis book, you know, uh,
starts writing this book Idle Warriors.Before you know, the assassination happened with
the political defection all that um anduh so, yeah, it just me
so pick us up wherever wherever youthink we should start with here, and
I guess let's let's let's get intoit. So there's the It's the big

(22:45):
thing about Oswald and Thornley. Theywere definitely friends in the Marines. They
definitely knew each other in eighteen monthsthat Oswald was back from the Soviet Union.
Although Kerry Thornley denies it, Thornley'sgirlfriend at the time, I can't
recall her name off hand, shehad seen them together multiple times. A
neighbor of Oswald's had seen Thornley attheir place so often that she wasn't sure

(23:08):
which one Marina was married too.That's how often that Thornley was over at
Oswald's place. So the relationship wasthere, it was solid, and it
was I guarantee you it was asetup from day one on the behalf on
the part of Thornley, because Imean, if we go into like the
fair Play for Cubic Committee stuff,you know that's a CI front founded by

(23:30):
two CIA shills, Robert Tabor RichardGibson. And so that being the case,
knowing that Oswald is associated allegedly witha fair Play for Cuba Committee and
it being a CIA front. Itwas definitely not a real communist organization.
It was more co intel pro tryingto determine who the communists were in the
country, who who people who wouldvolunteer to be part of that organization,

(23:52):
and then they would have a listof the communists who got involved, right.
So, but at the same timethey went out recruiting, so it
was, you know, kind oflike how the FBI sets people up to
same kind of thing. So,but the flyers that were printed were not
printed by Oswald. The flyers forfair Play for QB. Kimmitie that had
the five forty four Camp Street addresswere not printed by Oswald. They were
printed by Kerry Thornley. Harold Wisebergwent to Jones Printing and he met with

(24:18):
Douglas Jones, the owner of JonesPrinting, and he showed him over a
hundred photographs and Jones picked out fourpictures of the man who commissioned those flyers,
and all four pictures were of KerryThornley. So and being that those
flyers that he had printed are theones that had the five forty four Camp
Street address, that Guy Banister andSergei Orcacha and David Ferry all had offices

(24:40):
at that led me to believe thatfucking Oswald probably didn't even have any contact
with those guys at five forty fourCamp Street, and that Kerry Thornley was
most likely the person who had printed. He definitely printed the flyers, definitely
stamped the five forty four Camp Streeton there, and that's was blamed on
Oswald and that was the only thinglinking Oswald to that building. And I

(25:00):
think that that is that was ascrew up, and I think it indicates
that Oswald really probably was not associatedwith those people, and that Kerry Thornley
was associated with those people and misidentified, not necessarily impersonating in some instances,
but often misidentified because we remember thisis in hindsight. So a year before

(25:21):
the assassination, someone's in that buildingand they see Kerry Thornley there. When
Oswald's arrested, and they see agrainy black and white television showing a guy
five foot nine hundred and fifty poundsgeneral same description, they're gonna say,
hey, I think that might havebeen the guy, right, So that's
how they would count on that becausethey didn't have cameras on every corner like
they do today. Nobody had acell phone back then, and it was

(25:44):
much easier to get away with pullingthis body double switch or root stuff.
I think linking Oswald to five fortyfour Camp Street was a screw up by
Kerry Thornley, and Kerry Thornley wasactually the one working out of that office,
not Oswald. I believe that Oswaldwas doing what he was told,
and Kerry Thornley was one of hishandlers, along with Clay Shaw in New
Orleans, so that I would indicatethat Kerry Thornley is higher up the totem

(26:08):
pole than Oswald. Right, Yeah, And I guess if I could just
just one other thing. You're talkingabout high up, how high he up
is on the totem pole? Umwell to to I guess to confirm another
connection in this book from I guessfrom carry himself, not necessarily in this
case, but he mentions it inletters. But this is just the the
author speaking, but quote Thornley's brotherin law. Revelations soon opened up a

(26:30):
floodgate of associated memories begin to suspectthat he'd been set up as a substitute
Patsy and the JFK assassination, andthat Gary Kristine a k e. E.
Howard Hunt or whatever, the actualwhatever, whoever he actually was,
had been one of his intelligence agencyhandlers. Once Kerry opened the store to
his past, a torn of recoveredmemories continued to delusi him um, et
cetera. During this period, Kristancommissioned Cary to conduct research for a book

(26:52):
he was playing to write entitled Hitlerwas a Good Guy. Well. Researching
the project at the New Orleans PublicLibrary, Carry had written Hitler was a
good Guy on the top of eachpage, along with his own name,
and then turn the notes over toKirston Um. Later, Carry suspected that
trying to, you know, incriminatehim in the JFK assassination. But anyway,
that was apparently yeah Howard Hunt.Yeah, well that possibly maybe not

(27:14):
Um. So that might be thewhole story might be just made up,
because that that story is the storythat came from Kerry Thornley Um to Jim
Garrison. Jim garrisons the one whoextracted all that information from him. Okay,
so when you go through that file, it's about one hundred and I
think it is about one hundred andfifty pages long. There's two or three
files. There's maybe a total ofthree to four hundred pages on Thornley and

(27:36):
Garrison's files, and when you gothrough them, you're really come to find
that guy never told the same storytwice. Um. The story he tells
about brother in law and Gary Kirstonare questionable at best. Um, And
he still is he still is admittingthat he's in contact with CIA. Right,
So like the guy, he justdoesn't know how to tell a fucking
lie. Um, it's h it'sa big misch match. We can't believe

(28:00):
of anything that he says. Corroboration. You need corroboration on things. And
for me, like connecting Kerry Thornleyto the Tippet shooting, like how did
that come about? Well, thatcame about because I came to understand that
there were two men, not onehundred, impersonating Oswald and that the person
who had been impersonating Oswald but Oswaldwas a child, is out of the
picture at this point. Right,we don't know anything about him post nineteen

(28:22):
fifty nine. Although John Armstrong isright on the he gathered some great data.
The conclusions he drew were total dogshit. He made all the wrong
conclusions on who was impersonating Oswald wareand he tried to apply like that other
duplicate Oswald from when Oswald was achild, who was with him from like
forty seven all the way up tosixty three, allegedly he attributed all the

(28:44):
duplicate Oswald sightings to that person,and it was just false. And when
you come to understand again relationships andhalf the Oswald sightings, Oswald was seen
with a husky latino with a pockmarkface or had bumps on his face,
obviously William C. Moore and LawrenceHoward. Then when you came across the
Oswald with the you know, thebeard to beat Nick and the whiskers and
all that, obviously Kerry Thornley.That's what I realized. And I went
through hundreds of sightings of Oswald andI kind of determined that ninety percent of

(29:11):
them or more other than like oneof the Texas Employment Commission was Larry Crawford,
but ninety plus percent of the ofthe everything that we know about Oswald
I determined was either Kerry Thornley orWilliam Seymour in different circumstances everywhere from New
Orleans to Alabama to Florida, toDallas to Houston to Alice, Texas to

(29:33):
the Mexican border. Okay, soyeah, so then I realized that then
I tracked the knowing is William Seymourand Kerry Thornley are the two men in
person in Oswald. And I trackedKerry Thornley's or William, Sorry, William
Seymour's the movements. I'm not gonnaget too much into him. William Seymour
was at the depository and then hegoes into Oak Cliff, but he was

(29:55):
he was ten to twenty blocks awayfrom the tip of shooting at the time,
and that left only one other duplicateOswald in Dallas who had been impersonating
Oswald, and that was Kerry Thornley. And then when you come to understand
that the second person involved in theshooting is described by Achila Clemens and Frank
Wright, is you know, akind of a chunky guy who's not really

(30:15):
not really big, but he's akind of heavy guy with the heavy eyebrows,
as seen by Velma behind the knoll, and you can start to connect
the dots between Kerry Thornley being theduplicate Oswald who's involved in the Tippe shooting,
and the other man there who wasDavid Ferry. And then holy shit,
they were buddies in New Orleans fromsixty to sixty three. Not coincidence,
right, this is a part ofthe plot. The plotters were David

(30:37):
Ferry, and how it circulated aroundDavid Ferry. And it was kind of
funny because for years I thought itwas just going to be mostly on the
mafia, with like Ge and Khanaand all these guys. And then when
it really clicked for me that DavidFerry was the central person in New Orleans,
I realized how close Garrison actually cameto getting it right the first time.
You know. But it's the studyof relationships. And like if I'm

(30:59):
gonna give an example, right,So like I give this, I've given
this before. We're on Sesame Street, right, and like Burton Ernie's house
gets broken into and the witness says, I don't know who did it,
but it was a seven foot tallyellow bird. Okay, Like who broke
into Burton Ernie's house? It wasfucking big bird. And how do we
know this? Because we know therelationships and the cast of characters. We

(31:21):
know who it was because of thelimited set of characteristics that we would have
it within a group. That's howI identified all the shooters, every last
one, because you come to youlook at the descriptions from multiple people in
daily Plaza, you cross reference thatwith your cast of characters, and you're
like, what do you know thatmatches this guy? And holy shit,
his partner happens to match his bestfriend. What do you know? It's

(31:42):
those guys, right, So it'snot really rocket science, but these fucking
JFK research douchebags out there who makemillions of dollars writing books and haven't solved
the goddamn thing. These people seeminglycan't think on that, you know,
fundamental of a level. They're constantlytwisting things and looking for reasons to discredit
information, and that, to me, that just goes back to come and

(32:04):
tell pro and infiltration of these communitiesby the intelligence agencies. Right, yeah,
yeah, so so you mentioned soso yeah everything else like before,
like oh, you know, maybeyou could have just been duped or you
know whatever. The tippets thing islike no, like that's that's that's a
little step step beyond um that waskind of my perception initially. Now for
more conversation here, and I'll evenadd one other one other, um one

(32:25):
other um point here to the Iguess the intelligence agency part or I guess
the intelligence part. But um quote, the FBI had monitored Carry's activities during
the mid sixties when he was editingthe Innovator libertarian publication the bureau may have
considered subversive. So the the eventhe publications he went to edit for it
sounds like they were under surveillance forum for years. So um kind of
the what what you're saying here iskind of point pulling the pulling weirdos in

(32:47):
the Discordian society and then having youknow that that sort of thing. I've
never heard of that that kind ofangle before, and it makes more sense
than what I was thinking before.Like Yo, I don't know anyway,
Um, but uh yeah, Iguess um, um, we do need
to talk more about that, Iguess the tippets thing because but but I
guess maybe do you want to Iguess do you want to kind of walk
through I guess, um, Iguess some of the overview of the of

(33:08):
of you know that that day andnumber twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
Um, and then kind of wecan we can tie in the tippet thing
to that a little bit. Sure, well, the thing I connected to
the tip it was David Ferry becauseDavid Ferry. And this took me like
this was like three years into myresearch before it just dawned on me,
like I kept it didn't even dawnedon me that David Ferry might have actually

(33:30):
been in Dallas for like at leasta year or two into my research,
which was obviously should have been oneof the first things I was I considered.
But um, once up with DavidFerry in Dallas, which was eat
which was somewhat in hindsight it lookseasy, but the process was grueling,
man like put in twelve days forfucking years, like straight, like it

(33:50):
was obsession, Like I couldn't.There were nights I fucking fell asleep on
my laptop and I woke up andjust went right back to work, you
know, like didn't even get upfor breakfast or nothing, just like just
hit it straight because that was anobsession, right. So, once I
realized David Ferry was in Dallas andthat the whole incident at the Winterland ice
Arena, which was really only doneto establish an aliby for him, Right,
because David Ferry allegedly was in NewOrleans on November twenty second, and

(34:14):
he's seen at noon. He's seenagain at six o'clock at a dinner for
Carlos Marcello. He had allegedly leavesNew Orleans nine o'clock at night with two
young boys about eighteen and nineteen yearsold, Alphin bo Boof and Layton Martins
who was using the alias and MelvinCoffee, and they supposed to drive to
Houston to go ice skating. Right, Well, the ice skating story ends

(34:35):
up being the most important fucking aspectof the entire assassination in as far as
the proof, because it turns outthe ice skating rink was owned by Lyndon
Johnson, whose right hand man wasJack Valenti, who was the shooter on
the Grassy Knoll. It was alsothe owner was Lyndon Johnson, who leased
it to a woman named Mary BootsRoberts, who was the cousin of a

(34:55):
man named Vincent Caldiger Own Junior,who was Jack Valenti's brother in law.
Right, so you have this likenetwork of people of all connected to the
military and intelligence and the president atthis ice skating rink, and I'm like,
well, what are the odds thatDavid Ferry just wanted to go ice
skating at this ice skating rink thathappened to be owned by Lynda Johnson and
run by the CIA as a CIAfront to traffic children, which is exactly

(35:17):
what the fuck they were doing there. So yeah, not coincidence. And
so when I really told the partof the story of the Winterland that connected
me to you know, Vincent caltGron, who was a short tramp also,
and the short tramp is the realraoul who set up Martin Luther James
or Ray and the Martin Luther Kingassassination. Right, So you have this
like an incredibly important globally historical,global historical importance, you know, centered

(35:38):
around the Winterland ice rink. AndI realized that David Ferry never even went
to the fucking ice rink. Itwas all alibi stuffed because he was in
Dallas. And then the night ofthe assassination after he shot Kennedy from the
knoll, but he was not thegrass Nield shooter. Jack Valenti was so
David Ferry does the first shot andhit Kennedy in the throat right. He
then throws the rifle to a guynamed Andrew Jerome black And who's wearing like

(36:00):
a railroad uniform, breaks it downand walks away casually. He's then seen
by a man named Ed Hoffman,who witnessed him shooting the rifle and throwing
it to the other man. Hethen cuts into the pargola Worries photographed,
walks through the railroad tracks Worries photograph, and then he gets into a great
plymouth behind the book depository where itwas parked. There it is he is

(36:21):
seen by a woman named Velma,who gives a very good description of him
with the real heavy eyebrows, wearinga suit, black hair, and and
he ends up leaving there and goingto the Tippet shooting right, because you
know Tippett is in on this thing. Velma, the witness behind the book
depository who saw David Ferry, shesays that a cop gets out of a
cop car and tells David Ferry,hey, I told you to move that

(36:42):
car, and she identifies that copas Jad Tippett, which I believe her
because Tippett was photographed on Houston Streetat the time that Kennedy's motorcade was passing
onto Elm Street. So basically,David Ferry fires the first shot and then
he flees in a car Plymouth.He makes his way over to the shooting
a JD. Tippett, where hemeets up with Kerry Thornley, who's driven

(37:05):
to that crime scene by two cops. Westbrook and Croy worked for Dallas Police
Department. They picked him up atthe boarding house. Okay, and say,
so if you can see, youhave these series of dots that all
end up connecting. Right, Soyou have these two cops who go to
the boarding house and they honked thehorn, and for sixty fucking years researchers
were like, oh, I wonderwhy they honked the horn. Duh,

(37:27):
right, duh. They picked himup and they drove him to the shooting,
right, That's why they were there. And see, so that connects
Kerry Thornley to the boarding house.And he's like, well, Kerry Thornley
was the boarding house, not Oswald. So Oswald didn't live there. And
then you're like, well, hey, he probably didn't live at the other
boarding house, did he. Andthen you research that insure a ship.
Both boarding houses have a connection toJack Ruby. So yeah, Oswald didn't

(37:49):
leave it. And that was atthe point where I'm like, well,
Oswald probably wasn't anywhere, and Iwas correct, Oswald wasn't anywhere. When
you dig into Oswald, Oswald isnowhere to be found. I can't pinpoint
any of all Walds actual activities afterhe comes back from the Soviet Union until
he shows up at the Texas Theaterwhen he gets arrested. So he was
impersonated all over the place at nauseumright extensively, even up to and including

(38:15):
I believe the book Depository. Idon't believe Oswald worked the book Depository.
I do not believe for a splitsecond he was there at the book Depository
that day. If you're gonna havea Patsy and you're gonna set him up
for killing the president, why areyou going to let him wander around the
building at will while you're funneling assassinsinto the building at about twelve ten pm,
so for twenty minutes, you gotassassins on the sixth floor, and

(38:37):
you're just gonna let Oswald just wanderaround the building, right, Give me
a break. Oswald wasn't there thatday, and so how do you give
the impression that Oswald was there thatday if Oswald never worked there, because
you have somebody else working there underthe name Lee Harvey Oswald, which is
exactly what I think happened. Ihave evidence that William Seymour, who had
been impersoning Oswald all over the placeat the gun range and at the Carousel

(38:59):
Club and all the place, Ibelieve it was him. I have evidence
that he was there that day onNovember twenty second, at the book depository.
I had an image of him outback of the depository, is captured
in the Robert Hughes film, andhe's wearing a light brown jacket. Oswald
never owned a light brown jacket.The jacket that was found the scene was
never owned by Oswald. He hadtwo jackets, a gray jacket in the
blue jacket. He never owned thejacket that was allegedly captured or picked up
by police at the tip of shooting. So we have William Seymour inside the

(39:23):
pository. We have the incident ofOswald being stopped on the second floor where
he's ricken a coke ninety seconds afterthe assassination, right, that story that
never happened. That's pure myth thatwas made up after the fact to cover
for the fact that Baker actually arrestedsomebody prior to entering the building. I
believe that he arrested the shooter whoshot from the Deltechs building. The shooter

(39:44):
at the Deltechs building fired not froma window but from the fire escape,
from alleged underneath the fire escape.And I believe that man was Emilio Santana,
and I believe that he was arrestedshortly after he fired the shots that
hit Kennedy in the back and thatstruck James Tag and cracked the windshield and
all that good stuff. So thatbeing the case. Using the statements of

(40:05):
Robert McNeil, reporter who was insidethe book depository until twelve thirty seven PM,
Robert McNeill states that no police enteredthe building while he was there,
and he had been there from abouttwelve thirty two to twelve thirty eight.
He had a phone call time stamptwelve thirty six, and he says no
cops were in the building. Sothat means the incident with Baker and truly
where they allegedly bump into Oswald onthe second floor with a coke story that

(40:28):
couldn't have happened until at least twelvethirty seven after McNeill left the building.
And on top of that, weknow it wasn't in the second floor second
one floor lunch room because it wason the stairs. We have Baker's initial
notes, and we have two reportsfrom Dallas Police saying that Baker stopped this
band between the fourth and third floor, describes him as wearing a light brown
jacket. Okay, it is notOswald because I don't have any evidence Oswald

(40:51):
works in this building period. Allthe evidence we have are things like time
cards, which had to show aperfect attendance record by Oswald. I have
a dozen sightings in him around thecountry. Wiley should be at work,
so I have at this point,I don't have a single shred of evidence
Oswald ever stepped foot in that building. I believe it was just another front
job, like all his other jobs. Right, So, how do you
give the impression that Lee Harvey Oswaldshot the president from inside the Texas Bill

(41:15):
but the pository if he doesn't evenwork there, you have somebody impersonating them
there and when you go through thestatements of the people who worked in the
Book Depository, have the freaking employeesof the building never saw Oswald until they
saw him on television. So yeah. And the people who did know Oswald
as Oswald inside the building were peoplewho were introduced to Seymour as Oswald and

(41:36):
said, let me ask you aquestion. If you're working at a building
and the president is allegedly shot fromthat building and you're told Oswald's did it,
and you go and you look onTV and the guy they're telling you
as Oswald is not the Oswald thatyou know. Are you going to open
your mouth about it. Nope,You're not gonna say a damn thing.
You're gonna be scared to death andyou're gonna wonder what's going on, and
you're gonna hide the fact that youknow, the person that is on TV

(41:59):
as os Bad is not the personyou worked with. And I believe that
is exactly what happened at the BookDepository. It was a big setup.
And the setup of Oswald started yearsbefore, started in like late fifty nine,
early sixty and probably not as theplots kill a president, but as
a plot to get a spy intoCuba right after he comes back from the
Soviet Union. Hey let's get himthis guy into Cuba. But that didn't
end up happening. Then when theplot started, they had plenty of time,

(42:22):
and we know that the plot wasin the works, is early back
as February or March to sixty three, because we have the receipts of like
the handgun and the rifle which theyordered to the po box, which Oswald
never owned that stuff, but wehave the dates showing when they were ordered,
and that was like way way wayway early in sixty three, meaning
that they knew the setup was thesetup for to kill the president was definitely
going on since probably, if Ihad to take a guess, January February

(42:45):
of sixty three is when it wasprobably decided. So yeah, so I
guess just a couple of things.I'd like he'd go into more because it
lends it even more credence. AndI think there's an interesting background to that
too. But the school book,the Texas school Book Depository from your research,
again, is it kind of aci up front right, um,
and they print all the school textbooks. I'd like you to talk about talk
about that a little bit. Andthen the other thing with um, the

(43:07):
other thing with with Thornley in regardsto Patsy's, It's like, what what
this is? That's one conclusion I'vehad a hard time coming to is that,
um, what do they do thePatsy's. Will they kill them?
And what do they do to youknow, associates? Will they keep them
alive? And Thornalley was arrest Imean from if our call th Onely was
arrested twice and let go right,um from the theater and also and also
after maybe after the after the Tippetshooting, but he was arrested. Let

(43:27):
oh. Um, So that's likethat's disconcerting because yeah, they kill Patsy's,
right, yeah, but Thornley wasdefinitely higher rough peoples, not exactly
definitely not a Patsy. They've beenoverseeing Osbald for three years at that point.
So yeah. Um. And thenit's funny because that book mentions the
Johnny Rosselli thing, Like it's sofunny because because Kerry Thornley, I guess,

(43:49):
like moves to California or something likethat. Um, and he allegedly
gets a job doorman in the buildingjust so happens that Johnny Roseli lives there.
Give me a fucking break. Um, I want to know who the
real real real estate developed wrong thatbuilding was right. Definitely a mob guy,
because the Mob and the CIA workedtogether at least in sixties and seventies.
They were bosom buddies, um,inseparable. So yeah, um,

(44:13):
And it's funny because Kerry Thornley.You should read the Kerry Thornley files in
the Garrison uh files. They're reallythey're really good. You'll see what I'm
talking about. He's so he's soall over the place, like there's there's
no hope, no coherence to hisstatements, and how he changed his story
over the years, Like I sawhim on like Current Affair or something like
that before he died. And he'slike, I was involved in the plot

(44:36):
to kill the president, but Oswaldbeat me to it. It's like,
shut the fuck up, shut up, just stop talking. Like yeah,
but see, here's the thing.If you're a young guy, picture being
a guy. Seventeen, you jointhe Marines. By eighteen, you're in
the fucking CIA or naval intelligence orjust heavy duty intelligence. By by twenty
one, twenty two, you're killingpeople and be involved in the plot to

(44:58):
kill a president and then you gooff on this fucking drug LSD, tangent
and Discordianism, and you're gonna tellme that person's not going to have mental
issues. Give me a fucking break. Like, I have no no wonder
that his mind fell apart, youknow, Like I just wish we'd have
gotten a truthful deathbed confession from theguy. Yeah, you know, yeah,

(45:20):
none of these guys give truthful deathbedconfessions except Howard Hunt. Andy.
Howard Hunt was wrong when he HowardHunt gave his deathbed confession. He was
wrong, and I believed him.And you know what, it's because he
didn't know. He genuinely didn't know. He was not He was not in
that inner circle. He oversaw theCuban operations going on in New Orleans,
yes, and he was definitely connectedto like David Ferry and William Seymour and

(45:45):
all those guys, but the levelof compartmentalization was so much that he didn't
even know. He thought the Corsicanswere actually the shooters, and they were
Corsican shooters there. Well, theybrought in Corsican assassins. They flew him
in through Montreal down through New Yorkand they came in through Dallas, and
I'm pretty sure they were in DailyPlaza, but they were just standing around.
They had so many fucking shady peopleIndily Plaza. So when the FBI

(46:08):
or whoever goes to look and see, hey, well, how many potentially
shady people were Indaly Plaza, They'regonna find all of them? Right?
And what do you do with that? You fucking walk away from it is
what you do, which is exactlywhat happened, because I promised you you
had at least does you had dozensof assassins walking around Daily Plaza. Otto
Skorzeny was in Dealy Plaza and hewas a personal assassin for goddam Hitler,

(46:31):
So you know, the worst ofthe worst were there witnessing this thing.
They had to. It was almostlike an occult initiation for Jack Valenti,
which involved they needed to be I'llbe there kind of like some weird eyes
y shut shit, like really strange, like he's occultist fox Man. Like.
It blew my mind because I'm I'mI'm very well versed in consciousness,

(46:54):
but I'm an atheist. I've donea lot of psychedelics, and so I've
always been a very there's no Godkind of person um, and so I
never understood how smart people could beinto weird occult shit and actually believe it.
I'm like, that's too smart,There's no way. And it really
it took getting through most of myKennedy research to like before it fucking hit

(47:15):
me like a ton of bricks thatoh my god, this stuff is really
real and these people are not thatsmart and they do believe in this a
cult chit, and it was likeit was a major Um. It was
a paradigm shift for me. Yeah, it was hard. It was hard
to swallow. So I guess swallowthe other Yeah, it definitely hasn't.
So that's the other. The otherinteresting thing is that so like my,
my, my, I guess initiallook into the jfk'sass station was through the

(47:37):
eyes of Bill Cooper and um heapparently, from from what I heard,
had a bad had a bad tape. Um but he but he he He
had a documentary put out in thein the mid nineties called JFK The Sacrifice
King, and he talked about itbeing a killing of the King ritual.
As you pointed out in your Um, he didn't have the pictures. He
went at it from a very differentangle. But that was a conclusion that
he came to too, is thatit was a killing of the king ritual.

(47:59):
Um, and that was that wasa mind that was a mind blowing
part from from yours. I hadnot seen those pictures, but my god,
um, I guess, uh,yeah, if you want to if
you want to talk about that atall, that I mean, I mean,
it's it is like it's wild,but I mean we're yeah, we're
here, and it's it's important,right, Yeah, it's wild, wild,
like fucking wild, like give whenit's so funny. It was like

(48:21):
when you're studying Kennedy and you're lookingfor the like the idea on the Grassy
Knell shooter, right, and everyonehas in mind that it's just oh my
god, stellar person, like holyshit, super assassin, you know,
must be like Q J Wynn orone of these guys who's legendary. Uh.
And it turned out definitely to be. But I got to a point
where I was like, I'm puttingtoo much emphasis on the mystery being in

(48:44):
the important part, and I haveno reason to believe that he was anything
other than one of a dozen mobguys who was nobody special. Um,
I'm glad I was wrong about that, but that was a possibility, right.
So we like to put like heavyemphasis on things that we don't really
understand and hope that it's like comesout to be the you know, Christmas
morning when we come up with thefucking answer. Um, But when I

(49:07):
discovered the ritualistic stuff in Deely Plaza, that was like, that was better
than like any punchline I could havepossibly imagined. It was the most shocking
fucking thing in the universe, Like, I can't imagine anything more holy shit

(49:27):
devastating, especially if it could becomewidely known to people what actually happened.
How devastating that would be to those, to that group of people, you
know what I mean. So,but the truth needs to come out at
all costs. So yeah, yeah, So I guess just out of curiosity
because I know, I know you'vebeen asked about the about apparently again apparently

(49:49):
the fake the fake tape that thatBill Cooper is working from. I guess
career the driver was the shooter,which apparently is not not the case.
Um, But um, just doesn'tit doesn't make sense. I mean,
I understand, like the way itreally went down was crazier than the drivers
shooting it, but they need plausibledeniability, you know. And so I'm
still trying to work out how thefuck Career picked up Valenti from under from

(50:14):
under the overpass. I have thephotographic evidence that he did. I just
can't We don't know enough about whathappened, because you know, people say
this the limousine stopped. Some peoplesay it's slowed down. I'm starting to
be of the belief that that fuckingcar was barely moving when Kennedy was shot,
and that they didn't speed off,and that they took their time,
and they probably they probably gave JackValenti, who was the shooter on the

(50:37):
knoll, they probably gave him agood ten to fifteen seconds of stall time
for him to slide down the otherside of the knoll and then hop into
the limousine. And so it's interestingbecause I just found I had heard about
this long time ago, but I'mwriting my book and I'm at the part
I'm actually writing through this part ofthe book right now. And so I
was looking for evidence of anyone whosaw a man with a rifle slide down

(51:01):
the other side of the knoll,and I find it so a cop who
was off duty. And this isshady. This is totally shady, And
I have a feeling the story thatI'm about to tell is half true and
half false, and probably he wastold to shut the fuck up by the
Dallas Police Department after the initial storybroke and it's kind of been twisted.

(51:22):
So Tom Tilson is the guy's name, Dallas cop. He's driving in the
direction of the motorcade on the otherside of Daily Plaza, right the other
side of the underpass, and hesays he sees a man with a rifle
slide down the steep incline on theother side of the grassy knoll, however,

(51:43):
and that's exactly what I was lookingfor. However, this is where
his story veers off. He saysthat this person slides down with the rifle
but then gets into a black carthat was parked there and drives away.
However, we know that there couldnot have been a black car there because

(52:04):
we have a foot We have theMcIntire photo which shows the field in its
entirety, and there's no black carthere. So there's no black car for
anyone with a rifle to slide downand get into. So that part of
his story is bunk. But isthe first part of his story true that
he saw somebody with the rifle slidedown the knoll because I came to that
conclusion based on the evidence at hand. And then I find his statement saying

(52:28):
that he saw somebody slide down theknoll, and then we know that couldn't
have been a car there, Soyou know, what do I make of
that? It substantiates what I believehappened with Valentia on the knoll coming down
the other side. But the obfuscationcomes from the fact that he works for
police department and they probably were like, shut the fuck up about this.
You didn't see that, you know, and so he had to change the

(52:49):
story. He probably went to himsaid, man, I saw a guy
with a rifle slide down the knolland hop in the President's car, and
then they're like, what you likeyour pension? You know? So that's
probably what happened. He was probablyforced to change a story, and the
story we got was the modified storyafter the fact. But I'm gonna put
it in my book as a neutralreference, not as evidentiary, but hey,

(53:10):
I'm gonna put it in there asHey, this is what he saw,
so who knows? Yeah, yeah, So I guess, um,
well, if we could just forfor the sake of the audience, for
the sake of the audience, um, and maybe maybe for a good minute
or two clip at the beginning.Um. But um, I guess,
um for the I guess you've listenedlike seven or eight shooters that were there

(53:30):
that were there that day that unionfired, I guess maybe fired shots or
whatever. Could you just guess laythat out for people where they were?
Um? So that I guess that'sprobably what people are really interested in first
and foremost. Sure, So theshooters up in the book depository. Um,
we have Lawrence Howard, who wasthe dark skinned, complexed, dark
complected Mexican with the popmark face.He's in the sniper's nest. Across from

(53:52):
him is Lauren Hall. Lauren Hall, William Seymour and Lawrence Howard, or
a trio who traveled together. Everythingthey did, they did together. When
you start to link Oswald sightings withthe Mexican with a pock mark face,
which happened all over New Orleans andDallas, believe it or not, you
come to realize it's these guys.And so then when you when I identified
the shooter up in the Sniper's Nest, who was repeatedly described as a heavy

(54:15):
set Latino with a dark complexion.One witness even said he had something wrong
with his face, as though hisface was wrinkled. Obviously referred to the
pock marks on his face, andhe had multiple moles on both cheeks.
Really ugly guy. So obviously,if we've got Lawrence Howard and the Sniper's
Nest and we have a shooter matchingthe same description but basically a white guy
on the other side, it's obviouslyLauren Hall, because why relationships are everything?

(54:37):
And where's William Seymour. He's downon the first floor guarding the elevators,
Okay, m William Cymore is capturedon film in the Robert Hughes film.
Then he stopped by Baker and truly, so I'm gonna skip over all
the rest of the stuff with him. When you get to like the Pargola
area, you have that little likeconcrete little they call it the pargola.
It's that concrete like a you know, overhang thing. They have their We

(55:01):
have a couple of people. Wehave a Dave Yaris, who was a
long time Chicago mob guy who Itraced from Miami to Dallas and then to
Chicago. And he had a partnernamed Lenny Patrick, who was probably his
spotter here with him. But youknow, there's evidence of a shot fired
from between the pargola and the fence. I believe that was fired for Dave
Yars. And then I believe thata man in a white shirt with gray
hair captured on film behind behind inthe railroad tracks and the minutes after the

(55:25):
assassination. I believe this Dave Yaris. I also believe that Danny Green was
a shooter. Danny Green, alsoknown as the Irishman, was an Irish
mobster out of Cleveland who at thetime was working with the Cleveland Mob.
Shortly after the assassination, he hada meteor rise to power in the mob
as the head of the Long ShoresmanUnion, which is in big deal,

(55:45):
a big deal position in Cleveland becausethey controlled the docks and docks where all
the smuggling goes on, right,So for Danny Green to take that over,
that was a reward. That wasa reward for him in his participation
in the Kennedy assassination. And whydo I think he was participant? While
he was a sniper trainer in theMarines before going to work for the mob.
He worked for the Genevese family inNew York and the railroads before moving

(56:06):
to Cleveland and working for James Lecavoliand Leo Mussri. And then these guys
I know they were there because they'rethe tramps. Leo Serri, Danny Green
and a guy named Vincent cal ToGroon Junior, who we discussed earlier is
connected to the Winterland who was thereal role. He's a short tramper.
So those are the three tramps.That's how I put Danny Green behind the
pargola, because you're not going tobring a sniper trainer from the Marines to

(56:29):
an assassination and not put a riflein his hand. Common sense, right.
So we don't have any other evidenceother than the circumstances, but the
circumstantial evidence that Danny Green was ashooter is very high. Then we have
David Ferry. David Ferry is agrassy old shooter Number one. Jack Valenti
is a grassy old shoter Number two. So the first shot fire, but
David Ferry, I explained this alittle bit earlier, fires a shot his

(56:52):
Kennedy in the throat, throws itto Blackman and casually walks off before being
photographed and then seen by Velma andthen going to the tip of shooting Jack
Valenti. So this is where I'mthis is where I'm at in the book.
I'm writing this up right now aswe speak, And I've spent the
last about week going over the individualstatements of the Secret Service car and dissecting
every second in every photograph and everythinggoing on in the couple of seconds between

(57:15):
when Kennedy is hit and when theSecret Service car makes its way past the
Triple Underpass. And I can tellyou with absolute certainty that Jack Valenti shot
President Kennedy from the grassy knoll andcame down the other side. He's then
picked up by Greer in the limousine. Why, I don't know. He
could have gone right to the SecretService car and I never would have figured

(57:36):
out shit. But we have theMcIntire photo which shows a man in the
back of the President's limo holding afucking rifle, which to me, this
rings of the weird occult stuff flauntingin their face. He shot Kennedy right
right, some weird fuck you kindof thing, right, I can't really

(57:59):
explain it, other and some kindof for the video viewers, it's behind
it's behind you. On your background, you can see the I mean yeah,
you can. You can see it'sit's uh yeah, it's you can
see the couple. Yeah that's gunin the car. So yeah, I've
never seen before too, but yeah, that's wild. Oh when I saw
it about fell out my chair.Um, because the whole thing with Valenti

(58:20):
fell into place. Once I realizedthat Valenti was not arrested on the knoll
and then he actually got away,I was like, holy shit, the
only way he could have gotten away. And I started looking at the photographs
and then I found the McIntyre numbertwo photo. Um, and there is
Jack Valenti and David Morale standing ona Secret Service car. So what I
did, uh, the day beforeyesterday, I went and pulled all the
statements of the Secret Service car guys, and I caught all the contradictions,

(58:43):
and then I pulled the photographic recordand I showed that there were ten men
on the Secret Service car in DailyPlaza. Um, two of them got
off. Um Dave Powers, whowas an assistant to Kennedy, he gets
out of the secret Service car.And then you have Clint Hill who gets
out of the secret Service car andhe goes to the limousine. So down
to eight men. There should onlybe eight men in the secret Service car.

(59:04):
Yet Um, between Daily Plaza andjust passed the underpass, you have
ten men on that car. Tenand I listed them out on the photograph
and I indicated where all ten were. So it went from ten men down
to eight, which is where itshould have stayed. But mysteriously, when
they passed through the underpass, theypick up two passengers, Dave Morales and

(59:24):
Jack Valenti, who's the GRESSI nullshooter. So, Um, this work
has been rejected by the entire JFKresearch community. I have to let you
know, there are such a bunchof dumb Fucksum. I've presented a lot
of this work to them, andI've not the stuff about the null shooter,
but all the other stuff banned fromevery fucking forum and Facebook group because

(59:45):
they just don't want to hear it. So yeah, yeah, well that's
uh, that's so I guess,um, and again I'll point point listeners
in the direction of it again andup and put a link to it in
the show notes. But I'm inthe documentary. You spent like an hour
on seven minutes, um, goingthrough you know what what what transpired and
the and the depository and what transpiredin the theater, and um, the

(01:00:06):
theater involves Kerry Thornley. Um.And again what I appreciate from from yours
as you go through all the like, you've your four first and foremost focus
on the source documentation and coming upof figuring it out from from all that.
Um. So if you if peoplewatch this documentary, you can walk,
you can look at all the evidenceand all the pictures and all that
as you're going along through it.But um, uh yeah, could you
give I guess a little a littleI guess, tell us what happened at

(01:00:27):
the at the theater, and Iguess with Oswald and Thornley and and kind
of the I guess the happenings there. Sure well, Oswald is scene entering
the theater um between one o'clock andone oh seven, right, so JD.
Tippetts shot at one oh six.So what I believe happened is that
I don't believe Oswald was in deelyPlas at all that day. I believe
it was William Seymour working in thebook depository as Oswald, and I have

(01:00:49):
more evidence to support that than thereis evidence of Oswald ever worked there.
Um. So I'm trying to thinkof we're a good spot to pick up
from this is um, So we'lltake it from like the tip of shooting.
Right, So, Kerry Thornley isinvolved in the tip of shooting along
with David Ferry. Kerry Thornley fleesand he flees to a secondhand junk shop

(01:01:09):
on Jefferson Street and he tries toget in like it's like it must be
a contact or hideout or something.But he can't get in there, and
so he runs down the steps andhe discards his jacket. But he doesn't
discard his jacket underneath the car withthe Texaco. He discards it on a
tire rack behind the Texico, andsomehow the jacket is relocated after it's found
by a woman whose name was DorothyA. Dean, and so she was

(01:01:32):
at Dean's Dairy Way she witnessed thewhole thing with Kerry Thornley. But this
is not part of the official story, right, And it's supposedly Oswald.
Everyone says it's Oswald because they lookedso close together in nineteen sixty three,
same height, same weight, skinnyreceding hairline, right, And if you
see somebody for a split second inperson and then you see him for hours
on TV, of course you're gonnayou could mix them up very easily.

(01:01:52):
And that's how they got away witha lot of the body double stuff with
William Seymour and Kerry Thornley. Sofrom there, Kerry Thornley flees to the
Abundant Life Temple, which is aJewish temple, but it's really a front.
It's a fraud. It's run bya guy who's opened to other temples
around and had no known congregates,right, nobody ever went to this temple.
There's also another person who incorporated thetemple that he went to, was

(01:02:14):
somehow connected to Jack Ruby through TreillContinent bus ways. So there's a lot
of weird since shenanigans going on withthis temple. But he goes and he
hides there and then actually I haveto correct myself because I adjusted the timeline,
and I realized that Kerry Thornley hadfled from the Abundant Life Temple prior
to the cops showing up there.So the person that they had actually detained

(01:02:37):
was the library, not at theAbundant Life Temple. Okay, so not
Thornley. And they did have thewrong guy because Thornley was there, but
then he dipped out. He wasthere for probably about ten fifteen minutes though,
so he must have met with acontact in there somehow, and then
on a schedule, on a scheduletotally timed, he left at twelve or

(01:02:58):
yeah, twelve thirty five, I'msorry. At this point, it's one
thirty five, right, it's anhour la, it's one thirty five.
And then he makes his way atthe Texas Theater, but on the way
he stops in at Johnny Brewer's store, Hardy Shoe Store, where Johnny Brewer's
working. But Johnny Brewer has anotherguy working in the store with him,
a guy named, oh shit,what's this guy's name? Row? I

(01:03:20):
can't remember his first name, buthis last name is Roe Rowe. Row
is an associated Jack Ruby's and hewas so close to Jack Ruby that he
actually moved into Jack Ruby's apartment whenJack Ruby went to jail. Okay,
so Tommy Rowe, that's his name, Tommy Rowe. So Tommy Rowe and
Jack Ruby are in this together.And I believe the whole thing with the
shoe store is staged event, justlike everything else. It's a series of
staged events to create this fictional story. It's a Truman show, it really

(01:03:44):
is. It's it's it's amazing.It's brilliant work of art what they pulled
off. It's really when you cometo understand that the level of tradecraft involved
in this thing, it's it's it'sbeautiful. But so yeah, so Terry
Thorney makes the scenes the shoe store. Then you have the shoe store guy
goes over and makes a scene,and then the cops show up and all
that stuff. But Terry Thorne,he's hiding out in the balcony and Lee

(01:04:06):
Oswald is downstairs. Now, whenLee Oswald gets there, he goes and
he sits in front of a guy, and then he gets up and sits
directly next to him. The guy'slike this, only twenty people in this
theater. Why is these guys sittingnext to me? And Oswald gets up
two or three times and just sitsdown next to a person before finally sitting
down next to a pregnant woman.And he talks to a pregnant woman for
a couple of minutes, and thenboth of them get up and leave to

(01:04:27):
go to the lobby. This isat one fifteen. The woman leaves and
Oswald buys popcorn, So this isthirty minutes before the police storm the building.
Oswald goes and buys popcorn and goesback to watch the movie where he's
eating his fucking popcorn. He hasno idea what is happening. He has
no idea that the cops are aboutto bust in and get him. He
just met with his contact, whowas a pregnant woman, and that week

(01:04:48):
a pregnant woman had been seen atRuth Paine's house, but I have not
been able to identify her. Soyeah, Oswald meets with the contact.
She dips out of their price says, just wait here, just stay here,
why the rest of the movie andthen I'll meet up with you later
or something, right, So sheinstructs him to stay there. Cops come
in, he gets arrested. Afterhe's arrested, Kerry Thornley is arrested out

(01:05:10):
of the balcony and dragged out theback of the theater. This is witnessed
by Butch Burrows, the manager ofthe theater, who couldn't believe that within
a matter of a couple of minuteshe saw two men who looked like they
could be brothers. He's like,if it wasn't Oswald, it was his
twin, right, So that's howclose Kerry Thornley looked to Oswald at the
time. And so he's arrested outthe back. That's also seen by a
guy named Bernard Hare who owns Bernardor Hair's hobby house right next door.

(01:05:33):
He sees him getting arrested out theback door. Yes, caught in the
crossfire, just so people can seekind of the resemblance. Yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah, but uh yeah, So that's how that went down,
and the rest we know his history. So but all that stuff gets excluded

(01:05:53):
from the official story, and thenyou get dumb shits like Michael Scharmer,
who was actually on Joe Rogan today. I started watching that before, I
was before this interview, and theywere he was explaining why Kennedy was not
a conspiracy and I'm like you're thedumbest person that's ever walked the earth.
It's unfucking believable. But yeah,so, but they try to debunk this
stuff and they can't. You know, they just say, you're making stuff

(01:06:15):
up. And here's the thing.I was a cop. I know how
investigations work. I know how toconnect dots in a manner which would allow
me to create a case that Iwould present to a state attorney. And
the case that I have constructed Iwould write up and present to a state
attorney any day and be able todefend. So, you know, I
don't think it's too far fetched.It just people need to understand the CIA

(01:06:35):
and their tradecraft and all the fuckingmind stuff that they do, and the
body doubles and the aliases and allthat stuff that's real. And in sixty
three they were masters of it.Not so much today. They are all
digital today. But yeah, soit was. I also think it was
kind of an experiment, you know, if they would have pulled it off
to see if their tradecraft tactics wouldhave worked, and they did obviously.

(01:06:57):
I mean they had trouble along theway. How many inquiries of their band,
like three ever since you know thea RB and all that stuff.
So yeah, yeah, yeah,and that's a that's a really good point.
And I guess in terms of interms of volumes, so like that's
that's something I kind of realized.Um, and some of the old volnite
publications you'd have. There's an articleI just published called by Spy Tips for
Staying free Ineffective, So it's basicallylike utilizing Um. So there there's some

(01:07:19):
articles where you know, these thesecell librators, these freedom pioneers will basically
reappropriate these spycraft tactics like you're usingsynonyms, um, you know, paper
tripping, these sorts of tactics notto like, not to like coerce people,
but to like and to like tokeep to make themselves and vulnerable to
the course or like the state inthe servile society. So um, this
like going through this has been reallyeye opening, um for a lot of

(01:07:41):
reasons because I didn't realize all thelike I guess I hadn't really gone too
deep into the spycraft and the tradecraft, um, and these things work.
I mean it did then obviously.Um. Now they're they you know,
they help with you know, stalling, stalling investigations in the Warrant Commission and
all that, um. But atthe same time, like you look at
what's like all the confusion and thechaos that this created, and how much
you know, how how long it'sconfused people until you know you came along.

(01:08:04):
I mean, it's absolutely it's absolutelywild, um with Yeah, I
guess the effectiveness that's had over thepast fifty sixty years. Yeah, I
mean I think it just pisses meoff the most is that why did I
have to do this? Yeah?Why fuck did I have to do any
of this? I say, Itook you know, four and a half
years of my goddamn life dedicated tothis. You know, I can't ever
get those years back. And thiswasn't this wasn't sixty years hard. This

(01:08:27):
was hard. It wasn't sixty yearshard. So yeah, just pisses me
off that nobody else has done thisbecause they should have, so I didn't
have to waste those years, notthat they were ways to change my life
and I love it and it's whatI do for a living. So but
at the same time, it's likeI should I should not have had to
do all the work that I didbecause somebody else should have already done it.
And despite all the people who intheir hundreds and thousands of books and
all the millions of dollars have beengenerated by Kennedy's assassination, people just keep

(01:08:50):
spinning in circles over bullshit. It'sreally it just makes me angry, right
right. So I guess, umuto we've kind of gone through, I
guess the timeline and such, andI just uh to close out, like
talk about bigger implications here and makea fine point on on these things,
because we talked about it a littlebit, but I want to, you
know, make make it very clearthat so like the with with the with

(01:09:12):
with this, with with what transpired, with what you discovered, um so
like Jack Valente is involved, umthe uh um you know the the skating
rink was you know connected to LBJum you have um um. And I
guess this opens up into like Iguess the broader Zionism conversation with um who
wasn't that got sent off to hollywoodsaround Hollywood? Um. So, like
there's there's a lot of really bigimplications of what transpired. Then, So

(01:09:33):
I guess we talk a little bitabout beast in the world to me,
it's the biggest in the world.Like when people come to understand my work
and who Jack Valenti is and whathe did after he went to Hollywood,
and how he created the rating systemas a sense, as a mechanism of
CIA censorship is what it was.Really, that was their way to censor
movies. Um, because back inthe day, if in the seventies,

(01:09:55):
if you've got a rate of ourmovie, you got no advertising, like
none. So like that was howthey squashed films that had ideas they didn't
want to promote. You know,I'm convinced Jack Valenti killed Martin Luther King.
I still need to get to that, and that'll take me, I
figure a year to two years toknock out. But I still I'm convinced
because of the relationships to Row thatValenti was involved with that for sure,

(01:10:16):
and Jack Valenti was traveling on theday to fucking Martin Luther King was killed.
So give you a break. Imean, I think to me,
it's it's to me, it's prettyobvious because that's just because of the relationships.
I don't know much on the factssurrounding the King case, but I
will I'll get to it. Butyeah, I've just been crunching on my
book, my books about God.I gotta have three hundred and fifty pages
done already. I'd say it's mostlydone. I definitely have at least four

(01:10:42):
or five chapters to go, andonce I wrap up this, once I
wrap up this chapter I'm talking aboutwith the Chaos and Daily Plaza, once
I get done with that, likethe last couple of chapters are really just
like background biographical information on some ofthe guys, so it's not going to
be that hard to finish. I'mreally fucking hoping to get it done by
the end of the year. Like, if I can get it done by
the end of the year, I'llbe super happy. Yeah that's amazing.

(01:11:03):
Uh, that's that's amazing. Andyeah, well, um, I'm glad
you mentioned a couple of times andI'll mention it mentioned it too explicitly,
But I have working on a book, um coming up to coming up to
the to the closing. He's thethree hundred fifty pages, Um, I
guess it. Yeah, okay,well, yeah, yeah, very okay,
awesome. Well that's uh, I'llbe I'll be looking forward to reading

(01:11:24):
that. Um. I definitely willbe. Um, so, um,
yeah, I suppose uh, um, I don't really have any other any
other questions. Um, I appreciateyou coming on. Um, and I
guess just in terms of my my, it's it's it's uh, it's wild
from from reading from so I waskind of leaning in the direction when you
know, hearing that that Thornley wasarrested out of the theater and you know,

(01:11:44):
let go like that's uh like yeah, again, they don't, they
don't you know, let they don'tuh you know, let Patsy's go.
They they pretty much kill him.Um, this is usually history. So
like that that that that was,that was kind of a glaring, a
glaring fault, like glaring red flagfor me. And then kind of hearing
you your explaination going through it,and he did seem kind of I mean
that's even even the way that hisfriends or defenders were kind of presenting it

(01:12:05):
like a fair case. Um,he was kind of you know, back
and forth. Um, he waskind of dumb, in naive, and
um that that kind of you know, that kind of uh, you know
impression, and then he did endup going nuts. So um, yeah,
I guess, uh you've yeah,you've brought You've you've brought a lot
to life for me and I'm surefor um for for the audience too,
so I guess and any other anyother closing thoughts anything we didn't get too

(01:12:27):
that you want to make sure towork and uh um in regards what we
talked about today, um, orfeel free to you know, plug your
or anything. M Yeah, justgo to core hues dot org. So
where all my stuff is awesome awesome, Well, uh um, thanks a
lot, Corey, it's been it'sbeen a great pleasure. And uh um
yeah again, thanks a lot forfor all of your work. Um and
uh and and I just jumped onthere too. Where can people support you?
Um if they want to, youknow, support your research on future

(01:12:49):
if you want, um, sure, um you go to buy me a
coffee dot com slash forbidden and anybodywho makes a five dollars donation or more
get access to my my private chat. I'll get you a link to my
private chat. But yeah, youget a link to my private chat if
you make a donation. And wehave a pretty good group in the air.
We have some fun, so definitelydo that. Awesome awesome, Well

(01:13:10):
thanks again, Corey. We'll We'lldefinitely be in touch and let me know
if there's if there's when your bookcomes out, if you want to come
on and talk about it. Soanything I can do to help them,
I'm happy, Yeah, for sure. So all right, man, thank
you, I appreciate it. Hey, not a problem. Not a problem,
all right, guys. And thereyou have it. A podcast dot
com for everything, VANU and yeah, I always remember ivan is just for
the making in the second round asyears for the building cheers. Since I

(01:13:36):
first became an activist almost four decadesago, I've watched liberty trends come and
go, all the while the stategrows in size and strength. I've seen
the fruit of the labor of goodpeople be taken, misdirected, and you
served, all in the name ofliberty. I've observed dedicated, freedom minded
folks deceived, fooled, and robbedunder the guise of liberty. Despite the

(01:13:56):
intentions, these good, honest peoplewere inadvertently advanced the of the state by
supporting systems that underpinned the colossus.I've watched political decisions who have learned that
a few well chosen words wicked asdog whistles, and otherwise smart people will
abandon reason and logic as they clingto a politician as if he were their
favorite uncle. I've watched as libertariansand others faithfully believed the lies of politicians

(01:14:19):
and would be politicians who promised toroll back the abuses of governments or restrain
the advance of biviments. I watchedthe most successful of these politicians get wealthy
and bed their family members and governmentor party positions and retire without shrinking government
by a single penny. And asexpected, government grew, spending skyrocketed,
national debts exploded, and yet moreliberties were lost. Currently, there's a

(01:14:44):
deafening noise from the cheers surrounding theYouTube libertarians syber evangelists only surpassed by the
unjustified reverence all in blive dedication.These holy elders of liberty can only be
spoken of in praise lest their faithfulminions ran Internet aid upon you for your
blasphemies. Yet best advice the sybravangelistsand holy liberty elders can offer the freedom
minded individual is vote for me,that government to be nice, that government

(01:15:06):
is slightly lower spending, and betgovernment who audit the Fed. Like Emmanuel
Goldstein, guiding the brotherhood and controlledoppositions. Big Brother, Those most revered
in the so called liberty movements aresimply encouraging their followers to continue doing the
same thing that has never worked,namely, using the immorality and aggression of
governments to make gammorality and aggression ofgovernments somehow less immoral and less aggressive.

(01:15:30):
It could passes a hilarious sketch comedyif it weren't happening in real time around
us every single day. On theother hand, something I've rarely witnessed is
the freedom planeer who is able tosign accept the personality course the connartists and
the wind bags while sipping through theamountains of liberty publications to find the hidden
jewels of truth left by the oftenforgotten or unsung visionaries who came before us.

(01:15:54):
I'm speaking of that rare individual whocan see that doing the same thing
generation after generation is not a wisecore and will never lead to freedom.
I'm speaking of the few today whohave made the conscious choice to abandon collective
solutions, abandoned faith in a libertychampion, and personally embrace vauning with selfliberation
aimed at using the liberties we currentlyhave to become as free as possible as

(01:16:15):
soon as possible. In the processof compiling volume The Strategy for Selfliberation,
Chain has dug through mountains of outof print material and works almost lost to
history. He, along with asmall group of Pipe conspirators, have resurrected
a genre of the freedom movements thathad all but vanished. Chaine's timing and
delivering this book could not have beenbetter about the baggage of the silk called
liberty movements. Waves of people areseeking greater freedom by embracing minimalist lifestyles and

(01:16:40):
a variety of ways from the tinyhouse movements, festival circuits, band nomadism,
and even RB lifestyle. People ofevery age and income classification are taking
direct action in their lives and anattempt to free themselves from the traps of
modern consumerism and be chains of thesestates. People are tired of simply dredging
through trafic in a daily commutes,only to waste hours of their lives staying

(01:17:02):
at a virtual feedbar in the virtualcage that we call a cubicle. As
the boss's bark out orders, weall know deep inside the only reward we
will see is more debts and theoccasional upgrade to an overpriced bone. That
is, unless we do something aboutit, Unless we act. Many people
have also come to the same conclusion. Their problem isn't knowing what to do

(01:17:25):
that will directly leave them to thefreedom they decide. No thinking person wants
to continue doing the same thing overand over. We're hoping for a different
result, but few people of thetime and resources to research such a wide
topic. What Shane provides for usin Vanuo a strategy for self liberation is
refined. Information will be extremely helpfulin the decision making process for anyone seeking

(01:17:45):
the next step and freeing themselves fromthe self inflicted bondage called modern society.
Those in the gaming world could referto Shane's book as a said of cheat
codes, or perhaps a walk throughdesigned to show the reader a path through
a wide wilderness of choice is onthe way to achieving a life as close
to true freedom as possible. Today, you could spend the next forty years

(01:18:05):
of your life chasing dreams, givingyour hard earned cash liberty cheerleaders, or
convincing yourself that some politician is goingto magically make government produce freedom or you
can cut through the hogwash and emptypromises and take the actions needed to live
a life as free as you can, as soon as possible. I choose
to stop talking, stop wishing,and stop following. I choose action.

(01:18:29):
Ben Stone, April twenty eighteen,Bad Quicker Podcast, The second edition of

(01:18:50):
Shane Radlife's FANU A Strategy for SelfLiberation releases via Liberty under Attack Publication September
eleventh, be the updated uted bookon BANNI and begin or continue your journey
of liberation today. Pre order nowLiberty Underattack dot Com, Forward Slash Video
and you book two again. LibertyUnderattack dot Com, Forward Slash Video and

(01:19:12):
you Book two And always remember,Bonnie is yours for the making.