January 19, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, Christopher and Heather dive into a topic that's often a lightning rod for controversy: whether women deserve to be censored for what they wear and how women's fashion choices are subject to societal judgment and double standards. The discussion takes a close look at WNBA superstar Angel Reese, who recently made headlines with her bold New Year's Eve fashion choice and faced backlash for her provocative outfit. This lively dialogue peels back the layers of social double standards, societal expectations, and the broader implications for female agency and self-expression. Join us as we explore how women can reclaim their narratives and shine unapologetically.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Virgin, Beauty, Bitch, Podcast, Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share
(00:09):
unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different.
Your hosts, Christopher and Heather, let's talk, shall we?
So should women be censored for what they wear or don't wear?
That's not the heart of our conversation today.
(00:30):
And it's relevant topic every time a woman steps up to her closet.
But on New Year's night, WNBA basketball superstar Angel Reese, well, she poked the bear
with an outfit that literally broke the internet.
Heather, now I sent you a photo because I knew their story would make your head explode.
(00:52):
You know me too well.
Before we get into it, let's get a bit of background for people who don't know who Angel
Reese is or it's not a sports fan or family WNBA.
So Angel Reese, she's an American professional basketball player for the Chicago sky of the
Women's National Basketball Association WNBA.
(01:15):
The nickname her the Bayou Barbie or the Chai Barbie.
She's always played with basketball with long nails, extended eyelashes, makeup, looks
great on the court.
She's that's part of her style.
So she played college basketball at LSU for the Tigers, the Louisiana State Tigers and
(01:36):
led the team to its first championship.
And she was also the most outstanding player during that championship.
So during that championship run, Reese played against Caitlin Clark, who was the game's new
superstar.
And Reese kind of mocked her, because her team won, in a way that a lot of people called poor sports
(01:59):
manship or sports woman ship.
Now since then Angel has been under extreme media scrutiny and on more and one occasion
she's called out the media having double standards where she's concerned.
And you know that's basically what we're going to talk about today.
The outfit, how would you describe that outfit, Heather?
(02:22):
Sexy as all get out like she was absolutely rocking it.
I think she looked fan fricking tastic and she was owning it.
I loved loved the outfit.
Can you see why people may have taken some exception to that fashion choice?
(02:44):
Would you, how would you describe that?
I mean, I'm actually a bit shocked by all of the backlash since maybe 20, 30 years ago
when women's fashion choices and sexual expression was so heavily scrutinized.
But I feel like in the world we're in today where, you know, we're in like a, if you want
(03:08):
to call it, you know, the after effects of the rise of the Me Too movement and, you know,
so many decades of women fighting to have just full autonomy, autonomy over how they present
themselves.
I was really, I was really surprised with how much backlash there was against this.
And it brings question to why we're talking about it today because what about a female
(03:32):
athlete deciding to wear the outfit that she did was like caused such a stirring in a world
where, you know, we see a lot of celebrity women as performing artists and singers, you
know, rock that kind of an outfit all the time.
Well, let's say Angel Reese is a very voluptuous woman.
(03:57):
She has a lot of beautiful curves.
And the outfit shows a lot of that voluptuousness which on its own is what it is.
I think for Angel, her concern of, and she is a black woman, let's add that on top of
(04:20):
the pile as well to the kind of scrutiny she's under because that does make a difference
in this world.
And for her, with her being compared to a white superstar in Caitlin Clark, who
(04:44):
is not a person who has this kind of approach to the world and how she presents herself.
So there's a vast chasm of contrast between the two.
So that opens her up even more for criticism for people who have to choose sides.
(05:04):
I like this person over that person for whatever reason.
That all plays into not just the outfit.
The outfit becomes an excuse now to jump all over her for her choices as a woman, which
is basically what we're talking about her choices as a woman.
(05:25):
Well, I mean, the juxtaposition between these two superstars, I think, is exactly why there
has been so much backlash.
Is that people, fans, et cetera, have chosen sides, so to speak.
Even in the public eye, both entities have said that there's no feud between the two.
(05:46):
But certainly there's been a whole arena of both PR and even garnering more attention
for the sport because there is this kind of juicy gossip behind the scenes or sometimes
in front of the scene.
So I think you're bang on that people have joined on to this conversation in a way that isn't
(06:07):
like what not what we see some women, let's say, as I said, singers or songwriters being
scrutinized.
And I think there's also the element that people are still getting more used to, female
stars in sports, especially with a huge, huge takeoff of the WNBA over the last year or
(06:29):
two.
So there's a concept of, OK, in people's minds.
And I'm so glad that these players and especially Angel has hugely pushed back against this.
But there seems to be this narrative of, OK, we can grasp having women starting to rise
(06:51):
in sports.
But this is the look that they should have, sporty, athletic, and that's something that
feels perhaps more palatable to people.
And I'll be the first to say, I'm in Christopher knows me inside and out.
I don't give a damn about what's palatable to people.
I love when people push the norms to just be who they are.
(07:13):
And if that means that you're unpalatable to people, then just continue to do you.
But I do think that it raises an important question of reimagining athletic beauty, which is a
piece of our podcast is thinking about beauty in a lot of different types of ways.
And one of the things that I was intrigued by when the WNBA really started to take off
(07:37):
is as they're going into a game or sometimes as they're going into a practice, they catch
their fits of the day, like how these women show up in different outfits before they start
practice.
And some of them are very much, you know, like you've got like the tomboy's, you've got you've
got butch, you've got fam, you've got you and you do have many women on the different teams
(08:01):
that are very curvy and are not afraid to show it.
So Angel certainly isn't the first to do it or be captured in, you know, these sort of outfits.
But I think because of this large scale feud between the two superstars of the WNBA, it's
(08:22):
elevated her platform and her way of expressing herself on a new level.
Yeah, there's, I mean, Angel speaks about this, about the double standard because sports
illustrated will call her to come and show off her figure in a bathing suit and that's
(08:45):
okay.
If it's a decision made by a corporation and they're using a woman's body, that's okay.
However, the moment that she chooses to use her own body for whatever her expression is
in the world, suddenly it's not okay.
(09:08):
Because I didn't hear this kind of clapback when she appeared in sports, you know, sports
illustrated that we're hearing today.
Why is that?
Yeah, I think you've raised something super important because to me what that boils down
to is people's comfortability around women expressing a brand, a brand that's public facing
(09:32):
versus living their authentic self and their real life.
And that one, people are, you know, when it sports illustrated or maybe when these women
are coming with their fits before, um, a tournament.
But that's a different level of, uh, of scrutiny.
Once it's, it's her lived self on New Year's Eve when she, you know, obviously is free
(09:57):
to dress and post.
However, she damn will pleases.
Yes.
And it is, has always been part of her brand, her look has always been part of her brand
and has always been the sexy individual.
And that is something that after basketball is over, something that she has aspired to be
is a fashion model as well.
(10:18):
So she, through this time, she, the offers must just be amazing of designers and fashion
and moguls coming to her, offering her the wildest things to wear to express herself.
So why do we want to take that away from her?
But I wanted to also take this into just like how we are in, in schools, where there are
(10:47):
bands on certain things that girls can wear and how we start shutting down their self-expression
even that young and age.
How do you feel about that element of censorship?
(11:07):
I mean, um, I, you know, I do think that, like, that this sort of grooming starts happening
at a very young age for women.
But, you know, even the differences that I see from when I was a young girl to the young
girls today, um, it's just such a world of difference.
(11:27):
I think they face new challenges that, you know, previous generations of women and girls
didn't go through with social media and never really being able to escape either the
eye of friends or, um, you know, your past, let's say, or how you've presented yourself online
once it's on there.
(11:47):
It's on for, for good if others have captured it.
But you know, when I see Angel take the, the decision to, you know, be her full self and
then to leave the Instagram platform to take care of her mental health, that also is, uh,
making a bold move and a bold boundary to say, I'm going to do what I need to do.
(12:10):
In order to protect my mental health and, you know, with everything we've seen from her
so far, I can't imagine, you know, her, uh, changing who she is, um, not that I would ever
want that for her.
So taking that time to just feel grounded and feel centered in herself and not be at the
(12:30):
face of all of this scrutiny at this time, I, I think it's, um, I think it's a strong move
to show young girls and other women, you know, that yes, it's great to be bold and sometimes
being bold gets you into that spotlight and people want you to shine because of the brand
you've created.
But then at the same time what they're saying is we want you to be bright, but don't shine
(12:53):
too bright on your own accord and she's saying screw that.
Yeah.
Don't choose the frequency of your, of your light or the sound you, you make, uh, let us
choose that for you.
Here's your box.
Please step back in your box.
Mm-hmm.
It's like you're not obligated to keep feeding a system that critiques your every move and
(13:16):
logging out was liberation for her.
Yeah.
Do you, do you, do you believe people see it that way as her an act of defiance or liberation
or is it seen as an act of being defeated?
How do, how do you interpret that?
Yeah, I, I see it as very powerful and very self motivating and I think we've seen a lot
(13:40):
more of that like Megan, the stallion took a break like this.
There's, um, there's been so many countless women who are artists or, or superstars that
have said, this is no longer okay for my mental health and it doesn't mean that I'm going
to step back from, you know, my career or my passions or, um, dim my light as, as a human
(14:03):
being it means social online spaces can suck the energy out of you and to replenish I think
a lot of people need time to step away.
So I think that's a very healthy thing for other women to see.
Double edge sword there.
Mm-hmm.
I mean she had five million followers on her platform to pull that plug.
(14:28):
Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to say, I'm more important in this following.
That I have and my mental health is far more important than listening to the clap back
of ignorant people over and over again.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(14:48):
Is it ever of the double edged sword?
But I mean, do women ever, women don't have agency over their bodies?
Number one.
Uh, and I mean, that goes back to, um, you know, Supreme Court of the United States rolling
back, um, you know, laws that have been in place to support women for a long time.
(15:15):
So this is just piece of that same kind of heavy handed.
You cannot do what we don't want you to do in the way that you want to do it.
Yeah, I think that that paints the picture for like the, the piece of the story that I
think can resonate for a lot of women that it's like how often do we feel that we need
(15:36):
to tone ourselves down just to avoid judgment?
So whether that's not shining as bright or, um, you know, readjusting yourself to, to
not live your full potential and in fear of the backlash of when people actually do notice
you, the good and the bad that comes with that.
(15:56):
So I think there's an element of what's happening to her that a lot of women can relate to.
And you know, something that Christopher and I have talked about and we did a little teaser
for, um, a program that we've been working on called, uh, around the concept of the bitch.
Um, and, and the whole point of this program and is to hone in on in how many ways in different
(16:21):
areas of your life as a woman, have you pulled back or dim your light or tone down in order
to not shine enough to perhaps face judgment and just how much that is contributing to, um,
to women's lives, not flourishing to, to their full potential.
So I think that that's why this story really like hits home is because it's so relatable
(16:46):
for many women, um, obviously not at her superstar, um, state, but in just how the concept can
apply to so many of us in our own lives.
Yeah, it goes down to the, definitely to the, to the basics of just living life as a woman
wherever you are, whoever you are, that, uh, you will face pushback if you try to leave
(17:10):
what has been standardized as the way you should behave, the way you should dress, the
way you should address other people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that, um, you will,
as angel is finding out, will find people want to put you back in your place, you know,
back into a space where they have control and you do, do not, mm hmm.
(17:33):
And she's saying screw that in her own way.
But I mean, something that it kind of brings back all the way back home for me, Christopher,
and that, you know, this podcast we really expand and shine a bright light on outdated concepts
of the feminine.
Um, and to me, this, uh, outfit that she chose is still an expression of her feminine.
(18:00):
And there's so many, of course, different ways to express her feminine.
And, you know, with understanding and owning and not dimming your expression of feminine
power, all of that is contributing to how other people, other women, um, can see you kind
(18:22):
of shining through and breaking through, uh, really challenging, uh, clap backs, as you
said.
But I think there is something to say that no one has the right to decide when you get access
when they get access to your energy.
So I think when she's saying that I need this time to refocus on my own energy that she's
(18:44):
saying, you all don't have access to me all the time.
Um, that's something that I get to decide.
Yeah, as I said, I mean, there's two ways to look at that.
Some people will take victory out of, uh, the fact that she has pulled back on her profile
on, on social media.
Uh, this, this thing that can't has come up in conversations of her heard other people
(19:07):
talk about is this sense of, okay, so Angel Reese, you are dressed, dressed vocatively.
You are object, objectifying yourself.
Why are you getting, um, uh, twisted when others start objectifying you because of the way
(19:27):
you dress?
So I've heard that argument as well as it goes back to this idea that women should be the
harbingers of decency because men cannot control themselves to be decent.
Right.
I mean, you know, and I think you, you know, as you said, Christopher, that this is how
(19:49):
some people are reacting to, you know, this situation, not what Christopher and I, uh,
think of, you know, um, I think that sometimes even the language we use to say she's, she's
provocatively dressed like all of that is just insinuating as you said that there's some
sort of moral superiority to dressing one way or another, which leads us down a rabbit
(20:13):
hole of a lot of discrimination and violence and, um, just, in my mind, like archaic ways
of looking at how women dress and act.
So, you know, to the people who are still feeling and thinking that way, it's like, I don't
know, just it's time to move on.
It's time to not, I'm not saying they will.
(20:35):
A lot of people are stuck in still thinking that a woman is the guard, the guardian of, of
morality and that's boils down to making sure that you don't present yourself as a sexual
being.
Well, guess what?
You know, we are sexual beings.
And even if you as a human being as a woman, you're asexual or pansexual or however you
(20:57):
want to show up, that that's your decision to make.
So yeah, I just think that when we go down the path of, uh, well, you've dressed this way.
So why are you upset that you're getting treated this way?
It's like no matter how I dress, it doesn't mean that you get to treat me in a poor way.
It goes back to you, women do not get raped because of the way they're dressed.
(21:23):
They get raped by men who want to rape women.
It's not about the way you dress.
That's just an excuse that looks great in a headline, uh, to shame, right?
Victim believe the individual.
Absolutely.
And I, I take my hat off to all of the many organizations and educational curriculums and
(21:48):
all of the different types of movements who have really been working day in and day out,
over many decades to change the narrative.
And Christopher and I talked about this at the close end of last year that, uh, with Gisèle
Pelicot, I believe, um, you know, her line just speaks so true is it's time for shame
(22:08):
to shift sides because for so long it's, it's, it's been on the, the victim rather than
the perpetrator or so very much applies to this, this conversation too.
And if anyone's not ever heard this podcast before, I mean, that could be our slogan is what
(22:30):
we work for, it's what we talk about is so what we bring topics to the surface to, to highlight
to death.
It is time for shame to switch sides and be in its proper place, not misplaced the way
it has been for so long.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
(22:50):
Uh, isn't that the truth?
Isn't that the truth?
Yeah, so, um, I hope that angel's message is resonating with young women in the right
way and not through the way that others would like to have it influence.
(23:10):
How they feel about themselves and self expression.
I hope that her message and conversations like this will give the other side of that prejudice.
So the, her real message can be actually heard and followed by those who feel that this
(23:36):
is how they want to live their lives, girls who want to live their lives with their own
self expression, being themselves, feeling powerful in how they present themselves for themselves.
Yeah.
And just to add to that, you know, I, I want to, you know, also state that there's nothing
weak about walking away from negativity to me.
(23:57):
It's strength and it's setting boundaries.
That's not running away.
It's refusing to let the world dictate your worth.
And that's really powerful to me.
Absolutely.
Here here.
Totally agree.
Um, I got my basketball too.
Right.
(24:22):
I got my Raptor sign.
Can't wait for Toronto's NB, a WNBA team.
Start of my basketball league this past week.
So I am super excited.
Yeah.
Big, big fan of angels.
So, um, yes, absolutely.
When it comes down to this woman is outstanding in what she does for a living and on and off
(24:50):
the court, right?
Media loves controversy.
It loves to stir the pot.
It loves to set this person against that person, whether or not it's actually real or not, they
will find whatever they can to make that controversy take life.
(25:11):
And a lot of this unfortunately, we've that reflects badly on angel because she's the bad
girl in this all.
That's how they they paint that picture.
So power to you, angel, Reese.
Girl, keep on keeping on.
Yeah, girl.
(25:32):
Hacky out girl.
Oh my gosh.
So agree to that for sure.
You're so right that the media, you know, is trying to paint up that controversy and of
course, you know, there's a racial element to all of that.
So I just, yeah, I mean, she's, she's just such an example of not letting other people define
(25:56):
her narrative.
So yes, yes, it's really cool.
Absolutely.
That series on the bitch, we will definitely be going deeper and deeper into that about
women who do take their lives in their own hands and live it the way that they believe they
want to live their life.
(26:17):
We'll definitely be getting more and more into that whole archetype as we go along here
over the year.
So definitely want to come back, but I saw this story on in the news and I thought, oh, yeah,
I have there's going to have something to say about this.
I'm so glad you said that was when you wanted to do on the show because when I saw this story,
(26:43):
I was like, oh, I'm getting hot and angry.
Better talk about this one.
Absolutely.
So we definitely want to do more of these off-to-cuff kind of conversations as we as we move into
the new year.
So come on back and join us and you have been listening to the beauty and the bitch.
(27:06):
Yes.
You want to like us, find us, like us, share us, share us around with as many people as you
love.
Come on back next time.
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(27:38):
We invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com, like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different, like you.
Virgin, Beauty, Bitch, Podcast, Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share
(00:09):
unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different.
Your hosts, Christopher and Heather, let's talk, shall we?
So should women be censored for what they wear or don't wear?
That's not the heart of our conversation today.
(00:30):
And it's relevant topic every time a woman steps up to her closet.
But on New Year's night, WNBA basketball superstar Angel Reese, well, she poked the bear
with an outfit that literally broke the internet.
Heather, now I sent you a photo because I knew their story would make your head explode.
(00:52):
You know me too well.
Before we get into it, let's get a bit of background for people who don't know who Angel
Reese is or it's not a sports fan or family WNBA.
So Angel Reese, she's an American professional basketball player for the Chicago sky of the
Women's National Basketball Association WNBA.
(01:15):
The nickname her the Bayou Barbie or the Chai Barbie.
She's always played with basketball with long nails, extended eyelashes, makeup, looks
great on the court.
She's that's part of her style.
So she played college basketball at LSU for the Tigers, the Louisiana State Tigers and
(01:36):
led the team to its first championship.
And she was also the most outstanding player during that championship.
So during that championship run, Reese played against Caitlin Clark, who was the game's new
superstar.
And Reese kind of mocked her, because her team won, in a way that a lot of people called poor sports
(01:59):
manship or sports woman ship.
Now since then Angel has been under extreme media scrutiny and on more and one occasion
she's called out the media having double standards where she's concerned.
And you know that's basically what we're going to talk about today.
The outfit, how would you describe that outfit, Heather?
(02:22):
Sexy as all get out like she was absolutely rocking it.
I think she looked fan fricking tastic and she was owning it.
I loved loved the outfit.
Can you see why people may have taken some exception to that fashion choice?
(02:44):
Would you, how would you describe that?
I mean, I'm actually a bit shocked by all of the backlash since maybe 20, 30 years ago
when women's fashion choices and sexual expression was so heavily scrutinized.
But I feel like in the world we're in today where, you know, we're in like a, if you want
(03:08):
to call it, you know, the after effects of the rise of the Me Too movement and, you know,
so many decades of women fighting to have just full autonomy, autonomy over how they present
themselves.
I was really, I was really surprised with how much backlash there was against this.
And it brings question to why we're talking about it today because what about a female
(03:32):
athlete deciding to wear the outfit that she did was like caused such a stirring in a world
where, you know, we see a lot of celebrity women as performing artists and singers, you
know, rock that kind of an outfit all the time.
Well, let's say Angel Reese is a very voluptuous woman.
(03:57):
She has a lot of beautiful curves.
And the outfit shows a lot of that voluptuousness which on its own is what it is.
I think for Angel, her concern of, and she is a black woman, let's add that on top of
(04:20):
the pile as well to the kind of scrutiny she's under because that does make a difference
in this world.
And for her, with her being compared to a white superstar in Caitlin Clark, who
(04:44):
is not a person who has this kind of approach to the world and how she presents herself.
So there's a vast chasm of contrast between the two.
So that opens her up even more for criticism for people who have to choose sides.
(05:04):
I like this person over that person for whatever reason.
That all plays into not just the outfit.
The outfit becomes an excuse now to jump all over her for her choices as a woman, which
is basically what we're talking about her choices as a woman.
(05:25):
Well, I mean, the juxtaposition between these two superstars, I think, is exactly why there
has been so much backlash.
Is that people, fans, et cetera, have chosen sides, so to speak.
Even in the public eye, both entities have said that there's no feud between the two.
(05:46):
But certainly there's been a whole arena of both PR and even garnering more attention
for the sport because there is this kind of juicy gossip behind the scenes or sometimes
in front of the scene.
So I think you're bang on that people have joined on to this conversation in a way that isn't
(06:07):
like what not what we see some women, let's say, as I said, singers or songwriters being
scrutinized.
And I think there's also the element that people are still getting more used to, female
stars in sports, especially with a huge, huge takeoff of the WNBA over the last year or
(06:29):
two.
So there's a concept of, OK, in people's minds.
And I'm so glad that these players and especially Angel has hugely pushed back against this.
But there seems to be this narrative of, OK, we can grasp having women starting to rise
(06:51):
in sports.
But this is the look that they should have, sporty, athletic, and that's something that
feels perhaps more palatable to people.
And I'll be the first to say, I'm in Christopher knows me inside and out.
I don't give a damn about what's palatable to people.
I love when people push the norms to just be who they are.
(07:13):
And if that means that you're unpalatable to people, then just continue to do you.
But I do think that it raises an important question of reimagining athletic beauty, which is a
piece of our podcast is thinking about beauty in a lot of different types of ways.
And one of the things that I was intrigued by when the WNBA really started to take off
(07:37):
is as they're going into a game or sometimes as they're going into a practice, they catch
their fits of the day, like how these women show up in different outfits before they start
practice.
And some of them are very much, you know, like you've got like the tomboy's, you've got you've
got butch, you've got fam, you've got you and you do have many women on the different teams
(08:01):
that are very curvy and are not afraid to show it.
So Angel certainly isn't the first to do it or be captured in, you know, these sort of outfits.
But I think because of this large scale feud between the two superstars of the WNBA, it's
(08:22):
elevated her platform and her way of expressing herself on a new level.
Yeah, there's, I mean, Angel speaks about this, about the double standard because sports
illustrated will call her to come and show off her figure in a bathing suit and that's
(08:45):
okay.
If it's a decision made by a corporation and they're using a woman's body, that's okay.
However, the moment that she chooses to use her own body for whatever her expression is
in the world, suddenly it's not okay.
(09:08):
Because I didn't hear this kind of clapback when she appeared in sports, you know, sports
illustrated that we're hearing today.
Why is that?
Yeah, I think you've raised something super important because to me what that boils down
to is people's comfortability around women expressing a brand, a brand that's public facing
(09:32):
versus living their authentic self and their real life.
And that one, people are, you know, when it sports illustrated or maybe when these women
are coming with their fits before, um, a tournament.
But that's a different level of, uh, of scrutiny.
Once it's, it's her lived self on New Year's Eve when she, you know, obviously is free
(09:57):
to dress and post.
However, she damn will pleases.
Yes.
And it is, has always been part of her brand, her look has always been part of her brand
and has always been the sexy individual.
And that is something that after basketball is over, something that she has aspired to be
is a fashion model as well.
(10:18):
So she, through this time, she, the offers must just be amazing of designers and fashion
and moguls coming to her, offering her the wildest things to wear to express herself.
So why do we want to take that away from her?
But I wanted to also take this into just like how we are in, in schools, where there are
(10:47):
bands on certain things that girls can wear and how we start shutting down their self-expression
even that young and age.
How do you feel about that element of censorship?
(11:07):
I mean, um, I, you know, I do think that, like, that this sort of grooming starts happening
at a very young age for women.
But, you know, even the differences that I see from when I was a young girl to the young
girls today, um, it's just such a world of difference.
(11:27):
I think they face new challenges that, you know, previous generations of women and girls
didn't go through with social media and never really being able to escape either the
eye of friends or, um, you know, your past, let's say, or how you've presented yourself online
once it's on there.
(11:47):
It's on for, for good if others have captured it.
But you know, when I see Angel take the, the decision to, you know, be her full self and
then to leave the Instagram platform to take care of her mental health, that also is, uh,
making a bold move and a bold boundary to say, I'm going to do what I need to do.
(12:10):
In order to protect my mental health and, you know, with everything we've seen from her
so far, I can't imagine, you know, her, uh, changing who she is, um, not that I would ever
want that for her.
So taking that time to just feel grounded and feel centered in herself and not be at the
(12:30):
face of all of this scrutiny at this time, I, I think it's, um, I think it's a strong move
to show young girls and other women, you know, that yes, it's great to be bold and sometimes
being bold gets you into that spotlight and people want you to shine because of the brand
you've created.
But then at the same time what they're saying is we want you to be bright, but don't shine
(12:53):
too bright on your own accord and she's saying screw that.
Yeah.
Don't choose the frequency of your, of your light or the sound you, you make, uh, let us
choose that for you.
Here's your box.
Please step back in your box.
Mm-hmm.
It's like you're not obligated to keep feeding a system that critiques your every move and
(13:16):
logging out was liberation for her.
Yeah.
Do you, do you, do you believe people see it that way as her an act of defiance or liberation
or is it seen as an act of being defeated?
How do, how do you interpret that?
Yeah, I, I see it as very powerful and very self motivating and I think we've seen a lot
(13:40):
more of that like Megan, the stallion took a break like this.
There's, um, there's been so many countless women who are artists or, or superstars that
have said, this is no longer okay for my mental health and it doesn't mean that I'm going
to step back from, you know, my career or my passions or, um, dim my light as, as a human
(14:03):
being it means social online spaces can suck the energy out of you and to replenish I think
a lot of people need time to step away.
So I think that's a very healthy thing for other women to see.
Double edge sword there.
Mm-hmm.
I mean she had five million followers on her platform to pull that plug.
(14:28):
Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to say, I'm more important in this following.
That I have and my mental health is far more important than listening to the clap back
of ignorant people over and over again.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(14:48):
Is it ever of the double edged sword?
But I mean, do women ever, women don't have agency over their bodies?
Number one.
Uh, and I mean, that goes back to, um, you know, Supreme Court of the United States rolling
back, um, you know, laws that have been in place to support women for a long time.
(15:15):
So this is just piece of that same kind of heavy handed.
You cannot do what we don't want you to do in the way that you want to do it.
Yeah, I think that that paints the picture for like the, the piece of the story that I
think can resonate for a lot of women that it's like how often do we feel that we need
(15:36):
to tone ourselves down just to avoid judgment?
So whether that's not shining as bright or, um, you know, readjusting yourself to, to
not live your full potential and in fear of the backlash of when people actually do notice
you, the good and the bad that comes with that.
(15:56):
So I think there's an element of what's happening to her that a lot of women can relate to.
And you know, something that Christopher and I have talked about and we did a little teaser
for, um, a program that we've been working on called, uh, around the concept of the bitch.
Um, and, and the whole point of this program and is to hone in on in how many ways in different
(16:21):
areas of your life as a woman, have you pulled back or dim your light or tone down in order
to not shine enough to perhaps face judgment and just how much that is contributing to, um,
to women's lives, not flourishing to, to their full potential.
So I think that that's why this story really like hits home is because it's so relatable
(16:46):
for many women, um, obviously not at her superstar, um, state, but in just how the concept can
apply to so many of us in our own lives.
Yeah, it goes down to the, definitely to the, to the basics of just living life as a woman
wherever you are, whoever you are, that, uh, you will face pushback if you try to leave
(17:10):
what has been standardized as the way you should behave, the way you should dress, the
way you should address other people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that, um, you will,
as angel is finding out, will find people want to put you back in your place, you know,
back into a space where they have control and you do, do not, mm hmm.
(17:33):
And she's saying screw that in her own way.
But I mean, something that it kind of brings back all the way back home for me, Christopher,
and that, you know, this podcast we really expand and shine a bright light on outdated concepts
of the feminine.
Um, and to me, this, uh, outfit that she chose is still an expression of her feminine.
(18:00):
And there's so many, of course, different ways to express her feminine.
And, you know, with understanding and owning and not dimming your expression of feminine
power, all of that is contributing to how other people, other women, um, can see you kind
(18:22):
of shining through and breaking through, uh, really challenging, uh, clap backs, as you
said.
But I think there is something to say that no one has the right to decide when you get access
when they get access to your energy.
So I think when she's saying that I need this time to refocus on my own energy that she's
(18:44):
saying, you all don't have access to me all the time.
Um, that's something that I get to decide.
Yeah, as I said, I mean, there's two ways to look at that.
Some people will take victory out of, uh, the fact that she has pulled back on her profile
on, on social media.
Uh, this, this thing that can't has come up in conversations of her heard other people
(19:07):
talk about is this sense of, okay, so Angel Reese, you are dressed, dressed vocatively.
You are object, objectifying yourself.
Why are you getting, um, uh, twisted when others start objectifying you because of the way
(19:27):
you dress?
So I've heard that argument as well as it goes back to this idea that women should be the
harbingers of decency because men cannot control themselves to be decent.
Right.
I mean, you know, and I think you, you know, as you said, Christopher, that this is how
(19:49):
some people are reacting to, you know, this situation, not what Christopher and I, uh,
think of, you know, um, I think that sometimes even the language we use to say she's, she's
provocatively dressed like all of that is just insinuating as you said that there's some
sort of moral superiority to dressing one way or another, which leads us down a rabbit
(20:13):
hole of a lot of discrimination and violence and, um, just, in my mind, like archaic ways
of looking at how women dress and act.
So, you know, to the people who are still feeling and thinking that way, it's like, I don't
know, just it's time to move on.
It's time to not, I'm not saying they will.
(20:35):
A lot of people are stuck in still thinking that a woman is the guard, the guardian of, of
morality and that's boils down to making sure that you don't present yourself as a sexual
being.
Well, guess what?
You know, we are sexual beings.
And even if you as a human being as a woman, you're asexual or pansexual or however you
(20:57):
want to show up, that that's your decision to make.
So yeah, I just think that when we go down the path of, uh, well, you've dressed this way.
So why are you upset that you're getting treated this way?
It's like no matter how I dress, it doesn't mean that you get to treat me in a poor way.
It goes back to you, women do not get raped because of the way they're dressed.
(21:23):
They get raped by men who want to rape women.
It's not about the way you dress.
That's just an excuse that looks great in a headline, uh, to shame, right?
Victim believe the individual.
Absolutely.
And I, I take my hat off to all of the many organizations and educational curriculums and
(21:48):
all of the different types of movements who have really been working day in and day out,
over many decades to change the narrative.
And Christopher and I talked about this at the close end of last year that, uh, with Gisèle
Pelicot, I believe, um, you know, her line just speaks so true is it's time for shame
(22:08):
to shift sides because for so long it's, it's, it's been on the, the victim rather than
the perpetrator or so very much applies to this, this conversation too.
And if anyone's not ever heard this podcast before, I mean, that could be our slogan is what
(22:30):
we work for, it's what we talk about is so what we bring topics to the surface to, to highlight
to death.
It is time for shame to switch sides and be in its proper place, not misplaced the way
it has been for so long.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
(22:50):
Uh, isn't that the truth?
Isn't that the truth?
Yeah, so, um, I hope that angel's message is resonating with young women in the right
way and not through the way that others would like to have it influence.
(23:10):
How they feel about themselves and self expression.
I hope that her message and conversations like this will give the other side of that prejudice.
So the, her real message can be actually heard and followed by those who feel that this
(23:36):
is how they want to live their lives, girls who want to live their lives with their own
self expression, being themselves, feeling powerful in how they present themselves for themselves.
Yeah.
And just to add to that, you know, I, I want to, you know, also state that there's nothing
weak about walking away from negativity to me.
(23:57):
It's strength and it's setting boundaries.
That's not running away.
It's refusing to let the world dictate your worth.
And that's really powerful to me.
Absolutely.
Here here.
Totally agree.
Um, I got my basketball too.
Right.
(24:22):
I got my Raptor sign.
Can't wait for Toronto's NB, a WNBA team.
Start of my basketball league this past week.
So I am super excited.
Yeah.
Big, big fan of angels.
So, um, yes, absolutely.
When it comes down to this woman is outstanding in what she does for a living and on and off
(24:50):
the court, right?
Media loves controversy.
It loves to stir the pot.
It loves to set this person against that person, whether or not it's actually real or not, they
will find whatever they can to make that controversy take life.
(25:11):
And a lot of this unfortunately, we've that reflects badly on angel because she's the bad
girl in this all.
That's how they they paint that picture.
So power to you, angel, Reese.
Girl, keep on keeping on.
Yeah, girl.
(25:32):
Hacky out girl.
Oh my gosh.
So agree to that for sure.
You're so right that the media, you know, is trying to paint up that controversy and of
course, you know, there's a racial element to all of that.
So I just, yeah, I mean, she's, she's just such an example of not letting other people define
(25:56):
her narrative.
So yes, yes, it's really cool.
Absolutely.
That series on the bitch, we will definitely be going deeper and deeper into that about
women who do take their lives in their own hands and live it the way that they believe they
want to live their life.
(26:17):
We'll definitely be getting more and more into that whole archetype as we go along here
over the year.
So definitely want to come back, but I saw this story on in the news and I thought, oh, yeah,
I have there's going to have something to say about this.
I'm so glad you said that was when you wanted to do on the show because when I saw this story,
(26:43):
I was like, oh, I'm getting hot and angry.
Better talk about this one.
Absolutely.
So we definitely want to do more of these off-to-cuff kind of conversations as we as we move into
the new year.
So come on back and join us and you have been listening to the beauty and the bitch.
(27:06):
Yes.
You want to like us, find us, like us, share us, share us around with as many people as you
love.
Come on back next time.
We've come a partner in the VBB community.
(27:38):
We invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com, like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different, like you.
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