February 10, 2025 • 25 mins
There was a time in human history when women were not allowed to participate in the arts - can you imagine? In 2024, Taylor Swift launched her record-breaking 149-date Eras Tour, Charli XCX produced the soundtrack to the summer with her culture-defining album Brat, and pop returned in a big way with artists like Sabrina Carpenter and Chappell Roan making waves in the industry. Not surprisingly, women were at the forefront of a record-breaking year in music sales as female artists claimed six of the top 10 spots on the bestselling albums chart. Women dominated the 2025 Grammy Awards, but today's female artists aren't just about sales and awards; women have something to say about the world they live in and the world they envision for the future, and they used the Grammy stage to speak up on topics ranging from trans rights, health care, immigration, to controversial DEI initiatives. Join us as we celebrate these women and their will for change.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Virgin.
(00:02):
Beauty.
Bitch.
Podcast.
Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear
of being defiantly different.
Your hosts.
Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
It's been argued that life imitates art.
(00:23):
Or does art imitate life?
Ah, when it comes to the emergence of women in art, we hope that life will imitate art.
I worked over 20 years in the entertainment field.
Most of that in the music industry was a major record label.
When I started my career, the industry could not have been more male-dominated, misogynistic
(00:47):
and very proud of its much-o-image.
It was rock and roll.
It was hard.
It was man.
Luckily, for me, I arrived at a time of also pioneering women in popular music.
Shout out to Tori Amos, Alanis Morissette, Jewel, Biff Nakid, and many, many more.
(01:10):
It was very clear that they challenged the status quo and changed the tone of the music
industry overall.
They were not the traditional showgirls, sweet voices, marching to the beat of male writers
and producers.
They were artists who were raw, real, and relentlessly honest about their life and experiences
(01:30):
as women and their art.
They put that into their art.
Working with these women really rubbed off on me in a way that opened my spirit to creating
and hosting Virgin Beauty Bitch with Heather.
But with women now dominating music like they are, like never before, I can only imagine
the impact that female art is having on women's lives.
(01:52):
And only a woman can really answer that, so over to you, Heather.
Wow.
Thank you, Christopher.
And, you know, hearing about Christopher's life in music and these powerhouse women that
have, you know, shaped the game, you know, and really did carve the way for so many other
women.
You know, I grew up definitely with Biff Nakid, with Jewel, Alanis Morissette, as speaking
(02:19):
to some of the teenage angst I was feeling and anger with the world around me.
And then also, you know, some, some ballads that really kind of hit some of the more sentimental
notes of what life was like as we were redefining womanhood and femininity back then.
So, you know, Christopher and I were wanting to look into one of the biggest nights in music,
(02:45):
which is the Grammy Awards.
You know, it's gone through a couple different types of seasons, shall we say.
I would say about, you know, three years ago there was a lot of anger towards the Grammys
as being racist, not fair to women and some of their achievements.
And then there were several major artists that vowed to not come back to the Grammys because
(03:11):
it had been so clear, clearly skewed or what have you around racial lines or gender lines.
So, you know, of course Beyonce is a superstar.
When you think of superstars and singers, artists, songwriters that have made history, I mean,
she's right there at the top of the list.
(03:31):
So, you know, I'm not trying to rehash something that people have already seen and revered
her for because she clearly is in a lane all her own on so many different levels.
But I think what was so brilliant about this past Grammys is that she finally won album
of the year after being robbed, you know, arguably for so many years in the past.
(03:54):
And not only did she make album of the year and that's an amazing feat in and of itself,
but to make it with a country album, with Cowboy Carter and a genre that has up until this day
been so to dictate what kind of people should be able to play in that arena.
(04:18):
And when I say that, you know, I mean that they've made it so that white people should only
be able to play in this country arena.
And we saw that with the country awards, you know, that she was completely robbed of her
just deserves of everything she's made and created in that beautiful, beautiful album.
So to see her not only in her own light for what it means for her to break genre categories
(04:46):
if, you know, to bust those open, but also all the honoring that she did along the way of
Black women who have shaped country music from its origins and bring their story to life,
bring their voices into her performance at the halftime show at Christmas.
And I really think that what I am loving that I'm seeing with these stars that are women
(05:12):
is they're not only using their platform for their own gain, but they're really trying
to see their platform as a leverage for other female vocalists or other female artists,
or as a platform to be pretty darn political in a way that we haven't seen, I think ever.
(05:33):
I think about the recent election in the US and more women artists and artists across
the board came out in support of one candidate or another.
But just to see where women or artists have been muscled in the past to say, "Oh, you don't
want to tread on that political, that's political sphere."
(05:53):
You might lose some of your audience.
People might not go to your music because they're from a different political stripe.
So to see this emergence of women not backing down from that in these big platforms is really
something.
There's a couple of note for me.
One of the biggest ones is Chappelle Rohn.
(06:15):
People say that she's an overnight success.
When you look at her background, it's been over a decade of tremendous hard work.
And she has, it certainly hasn't been an overnight success.
It's been an overnight wonder to see her rise into super stardom, but really to see her
(06:35):
persevere.
Or anytime she has a platform, she is very vocal, of course, about LGBTQ+ rights as a part
of that community herself.
Very strong on transgender rights and again uses her platforms in order to discuss what's
(06:55):
happening and what we're fighting for in those fears.
But I found what she said at the Grammys truly interesting because she said it's about time,
like she talked about workers' rights and workers' rights within the industry.
She said that artists, once they sign on with a record label, emerging artists was what she
(07:17):
was referring to at the time.
They don't have access to healthcare coverage, a lot of them.
They don't have access to a living wage.
And she said that if she was ever to be on the Grammy stage, that that would be one of the
first things that she wanted to bring to light is that these record labels have such a hold
on the people that they represent because these folks are so interested and their whole
(07:43):
life has been put towards making it in the industry that they often are in a vulnerable
situation to get misused or the power dynamic to not work in their favors.
So I'm just wondering if that's something that you saw Christopher in your time in the
music industry is how that relationship was around artists being vocal in some of these
(08:06):
social justice issues or political issues.
Have you seen a change?
As again, when I started in it was mostly male dominated and of course you would have certain
artists who would take a stand on certain events happening in the world or certain things that
weren't necessarily at the top of mind when it came to being popular that they would speak
(08:32):
out against.
But not I think what women have been able to do is to make it their main platform.
It's part of their art. It's not a side dish that they go to that is actually embedded into
who they are and how they express themselves because they have lived a life of not being
(08:58):
privileged.
So to speak.
So that's who they are and that is going to be expressed in their art.
Whereas for men they have a different motive.
It's about being a star, making the money, being the superstar, things that they may be concerned
about in social life that necessarily need to be brought into their art per se.
(09:25):
In fact it may even be seen as a detriment to their fame overall.
I mean I have to shout out to groups like U2 and other artists who have made social
issues part of their music as well and have really really triumphed in doing that.
But women in general have always had that baked into what it is that they have to say.
(09:53):
And because that's how the world has treated them.
So that to overcome so much that it cannot be helped but baked into the message that they
put out into the world.
As far as I don't know that male artists get treated any differently as far as working
wages and so on and so forth.
I'm not sure that males had that privilege.
(10:17):
Males had the privilege of a platform that worshipped male artists.
So they had an open door to make the kind of money and gain the kind of fame that women
didn't have access to.
So that became their working wage.
They had the fame, they had the money, they had all access to everything that they needed
as far as their social financial needs demanded.
(10:41):
So I'm not sure how that can be baked in or worked into signing with the record label.
Because I don't know that they see that as their responsibility.
Their responsibility is to finance you, get you on the big stage so that you can make
more money for them and for yourself.
That's their role.
So I'm not sure.
(11:02):
I find it fascinating that a woman would take that model and reshape it into okay.
Let's make this into like a regular job situation where you take care of my dental, you take
care of my, you know, etc, etc, etc.
That is fascinating to me.
It's amazing a woman has brought that up as the model going forward.
(11:25):
That's cool.
I was equally surprised because I think that we do put celebrities and record labels on
a pedestal of, you know, well, of course, you'll be able to afford those things because,
you know, you're on the big stage and you're bringing in what you think is, you know, a substantial
amount of income in order to get your own healthcare coverage through a private company
(11:50):
or what have you.
But her thoughts, I clearly, and she did articulate that was around the emerging artists that just
isn't the case for.
They're still trying to get exposure.
So an interesting and yes, I think very cool conversation to open other people's minds
to the prospect of this is still a job and these people invest their whole lives into
(12:16):
making it a livelihood.
So pretty darn cool with that.
And just for what you were saying with the other pieces that, you know, these women that
you worked with in the music industry, that what they put forward in their activism was
part of their identity or what they put forward in their music, it was just, it was part
(12:37):
of who they are.
And I think that that's, you know, still what we're seeing with these women, you know,
it reminds me of, you know, even at this point, I'm used to her platform to talk about advocating
for immigrants, which of course, very bold statement in the USA right now.
(12:57):
So that alongside how Billie Eilish has come out in the queer community clearly Taylor Swift,
like her whole Miss Americana was all about taking the muzzle off and being able to be her
full self and not have a record label control how she talks or what she says or how she says
it.
And it just seems to me that they're using their voices for bigger conversations that, you
(13:20):
know, music isn't just for entertainment, but it is activism and it is their identity
and it is their power.
So it's nice to hear like how women have carved the way for that in the past.
And I think that it just continues to reach bigger and bigger heights to knock back down
of the box that people try to put us in.
(13:44):
Yeah, like I said, I didn't know that I was being influenced when I worked with these women.
However, the way that they expressed themselves, the truth that they expressed in their work
and in everything they did, obviously I was influenced by that.
I saw women in a space where men had been and they were standing in that space not looking
(14:12):
for handouts, not looking for favors.
They were there with enormous strength to express themselves, not knowing what feedback
would be even within their own industry, but doing it anyway because that was their truth.
I learned a lot just being in the presence of women like that with the kind of strength
(14:37):
that they show and the honesty that they approach their work every single day.
For me, it was, it changed my life, really.
I don't think I'd be doing this show.
I've been not been influenced by a woman with that kind of strength in their character.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
I think the other thing that we also saw out of this Grammys with Charli XCX and Chappell
(15:06):
Rohn, they say that Chappell Rohn is like a theatrical pop and Charli is hyper-electric pop.
Typically these are categories that don't get all the way up to the top of the charts
and kind of have their time in the sun in the mainstream arena.
(15:28):
I think there is something to be said about women taking their artistic expression and really
running with it in a way that you can't not look at them.
You can't not be intrigued with what they're doing and bringing these genres that you
don't often see on the Grammy stage really into full effect.
(15:53):
The pink pony, I have never seen a performance quite like that.
But she seems, you know, when you see her in interviews, you know, and when she talks about
the relationship she had with her father and what that kind of dramatic sometimes can't
be theatrical pop meant to her as being able to have fun and joy in life even through
(16:17):
so many of the hardships that people are facing today in different communities or marginalized
groups are facing.
To me that performance really encapsulated that to kind of break out of the norm and, you
know, as they say in the queer community, let your freak fly and fly it proudly.
(16:38):
Well, I mean, that's the, obviously that's the paradigm shift in music is that you don't
need a label per se in order for you to find your audience anymore.
Like that was the gateway to building an audience and gaining whatever fame and reach that you
(16:59):
could imagine.
You don't need a label to give you that anymore.
You know, that's very true. And even with Charli, you know, she had a hit, I don't know, it
was over a decade ago and she came back with a fury over these last couple years with
her Brat album and I'm like, there's not a woman that I talked to young old, it doesn't
(17:23):
matter what their age is that didn't either know what brat meant or was confused because
they had heard their kids saying it or the younger generation saying it, but it was absolutely
iconic.
And when you talk to younger women that that album spoke to, Brat meant, you know, I'm
(17:44):
going to try my best here because you know, I'm talking about Zoomers and I'm a Millennial
so this is a younger generation for me, really feeling my age Christopher.
But that it is like an uninhibited, unapologetic sense of self and that you deserve your own
exploration and you deserve to stand for who you are and love the way you want to love
(18:08):
and love your body, love your passions, your ambitions and that if people don't want that
for you or respect that in you for what you are, that it doesn't matter, you know, that
real is, yeah, it is, okay, I could be called a brat.
I think there's some parallels even with what people used to call bitch, right?
(18:29):
No, there's no, it is.
It is.
They're the same.
Because if you talk about bitch the way we talk about bitch and we propose and promote
bitch, there's no difference.
Absolutely.
I really do feel like there's such a parallel there and that's why, you know, I've just
(18:49):
loved the conversations that we've had around bitch because really that is exactly what we've
been working towards is not, yeah, and Brat summer.
I mean, Brat summer was the, I don't know, the biggest deal even when Kamala was running,
you know, one of the things that Charlie said on her Twitter or on her X was Kamala is Brat
(19:12):
and that was a huge endorsement for her.
So it's amazing to hear, you know, just how pervasive these artists have been and in absolutely
shaping not only pop culture and genres of music, but what that means to women in that generation
who also have rippling effects on how that, you know, they talk to their moms about being
(19:35):
unapologetically themselves and what it means to not only define their expressions as to
what I've said already, but really there is a really big piece to it.
That's their sexual power, right?
Like part of what Charli and so many other artists bring to the table is what does sexuality
(19:56):
mean for women in today's world.
So, and I think that's another element that we dive into quite a bit, but it's, it was an
amazing, I mean, when I think about the Grammys and also, you know, you saw Kendrick Lamar
clean up in a way that, you know, it was really great to see him honored for his amazing
(20:18):
artistic mind.
Like, he's so talented and he also made a, he said to the Grammys several years ago that
he would never be back because they've been so racist and who gets honored for different
categories or not.
And he was back.
He was back for the first time in since that hiatus because it was clear that some big
(20:41):
changes were happening, you know, with album of the year and, and, you know, I can't pronounce
her name because I don't know her very well yet, but I want to get to know her better.
I think it's Doechii and she won Best Rap Album.
She's the third woman to ever do so.
She had an outstanding performance.
She's also part of the LGBTQIA+ community.
(21:05):
Another amazing example of somebody whose creativity has pushed, pushed the boundaries in a world
that sometimes it feels like a lot of boundaries have already been pushed.
She took it to a whole new level.
Well, it's interesting.
The reason I started off with life imitates art or art imitates life is simply because
(21:27):
what we're seeing on stage, as you say, the representation of so many different lifestyles
is that art setting the stage that can be now transferred into life.
If we're accepting it on this stage as art, are we now open in our souls and hearts to accept
(21:51):
this in our day to day lives?
Is that the flow of life?
Is it life imitating art?
I love coming back for a circle to that because, you know, I do think that when you think
about how life influences art and life and art back into music, that women in music aren't
(22:11):
just winning.
You know, they're leading and they're challenging the industry and they're setting the cultural
tone for what comes next.
So, you know, I think that there's a lot of promise in where we're heading next.
It was an exciting night to watch and it's a culmination of all of their hard work for
so many years to see that kind of a change and that kind of representation.
(22:35):
Absolutely.
Absolutely, especially from my background in knowing these pioneering women.
Every time I think of this, I go back to what year was it, 1963, and Leslie Gore with
You Don't Own Me.
(23:02):
That one just keeps coming back up, doesn't it?
You know, that one?
It's haunting and it's just, it's real, it's almost timeless, you know.
It is.
It's a timeless, timeless song.
It is, it is absolutely.
Yes, let's hope that it is life imitating art moving forward because there's so much
(23:22):
to hope for and look forward to when we look at art and where it has changed its tone over
the last just few years.
Absolutely.
In some of the world that we're in today politically, it honestly was a night of a lot of joy.
And one of my favorite quotes right now is that joy deserves as much attention and care
(23:45):
as the struggle.
So it was very moving to see how these women are using the platforms to be that change,
to be that identity, to be that power and I'm really excited about seeing where they had
next and how they keep reshaping the music industry and even life itself.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(24:06):
Well, thanks for educating me on what today's world looks like as far as that perspective
is concerned.
So thank you so much for that.
I love it so good to hear about your life in the music industry, Christopher.
I always get so much out of our conversations.
And hey, we are going to continue these kinds of conversations as we walk through and look
(24:28):
forward to hearing more about the Bitch.
We have a lot in the works around that word and entity.
Come on back because we have a lot more for you.
And you have a listening too?
The Virgin.
The Beauty.
And the Brat Bitch.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
One of the same.
Find us, Like us, and Share us.
(24:48):
Come on back.
Bring your friends.
We invite you all.
To become a partner in the BBB community, we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com.
Like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
And share us with people who are defiantly different.
(25:10):
Like you.
Until next time.
Thanks for listening.
(upbeat music)
Virgin.
(00:02):
Beauty.
Bitch.
Podcast.
Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear
of being defiantly different.
Your hosts.
Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
It's been argued that life imitates art.
(00:23):
Or does art imitate life?
Ah, when it comes to the emergence of women in art, we hope that life will imitate art.
I worked over 20 years in the entertainment field.
Most of that in the music industry was a major record label.
When I started my career, the industry could not have been more male-dominated, misogynistic
(00:47):
and very proud of its much-o-image.
It was rock and roll.
It was hard.
It was man.
Luckily, for me, I arrived at a time of also pioneering women in popular music.
Shout out to Tori Amos, Alanis Morissette, Jewel, Biff Nakid, and many, many more.
(01:10):
It was very clear that they challenged the status quo and changed the tone of the music
industry overall.
They were not the traditional showgirls, sweet voices, marching to the beat of male writers
and producers.
They were artists who were raw, real, and relentlessly honest about their life and experiences
(01:30):
as women and their art.
They put that into their art.
Working with these women really rubbed off on me in a way that opened my spirit to creating
and hosting Virgin Beauty Bitch with Heather.
But with women now dominating music like they are, like never before, I can only imagine
the impact that female art is having on women's lives.
(01:52):
And only a woman can really answer that, so over to you, Heather.
Wow.
Thank you, Christopher.
And, you know, hearing about Christopher's life in music and these powerhouse women that
have, you know, shaped the game, you know, and really did carve the way for so many other
women.
You know, I grew up definitely with Biff Nakid, with Jewel, Alanis Morissette, as speaking
(02:19):
to some of the teenage angst I was feeling and anger with the world around me.
And then also, you know, some, some ballads that really kind of hit some of the more sentimental
notes of what life was like as we were redefining womanhood and femininity back then.
So, you know, Christopher and I were wanting to look into one of the biggest nights in music,
(02:45):
which is the Grammy Awards.
You know, it's gone through a couple different types of seasons, shall we say.
I would say about, you know, three years ago there was a lot of anger towards the Grammys
as being racist, not fair to women and some of their achievements.
And then there were several major artists that vowed to not come back to the Grammys because
(03:11):
it had been so clear, clearly skewed or what have you around racial lines or gender lines.
So, you know, of course Beyonce is a superstar.
When you think of superstars and singers, artists, songwriters that have made history, I mean,
she's right there at the top of the list.
(03:31):
So, you know, I'm not trying to rehash something that people have already seen and revered
her for because she clearly is in a lane all her own on so many different levels.
But I think what was so brilliant about this past Grammys is that she finally won album
of the year after being robbed, you know, arguably for so many years in the past.
(03:54):
And not only did she make album of the year and that's an amazing feat in and of itself,
but to make it with a country album, with Cowboy Carter and a genre that has up until this day
been so to dictate what kind of people should be able to play in that arena.
(04:18):
And when I say that, you know, I mean that they've made it so that white people should only
be able to play in this country arena.
And we saw that with the country awards, you know, that she was completely robbed of her
just deserves of everything she's made and created in that beautiful, beautiful album.
So to see her not only in her own light for what it means for her to break genre categories
(04:46):
if, you know, to bust those open, but also all the honoring that she did along the way of
Black women who have shaped country music from its origins and bring their story to life,
bring their voices into her performance at the halftime show at Christmas.
And I really think that what I am loving that I'm seeing with these stars that are women
(05:12):
is they're not only using their platform for their own gain, but they're really trying
to see their platform as a leverage for other female vocalists or other female artists,
or as a platform to be pretty darn political in a way that we haven't seen, I think ever.
(05:33):
I think about the recent election in the US and more women artists and artists across
the board came out in support of one candidate or another.
But just to see where women or artists have been muscled in the past to say, "Oh, you don't
want to tread on that political, that's political sphere."
(05:53):
You might lose some of your audience.
People might not go to your music because they're from a different political stripe.
So to see this emergence of women not backing down from that in these big platforms is really
something.
There's a couple of note for me.
One of the biggest ones is Chappelle Rohn.
(06:15):
People say that she's an overnight success.
When you look at her background, it's been over a decade of tremendous hard work.
And she has, it certainly hasn't been an overnight success.
It's been an overnight wonder to see her rise into super stardom, but really to see her
(06:35):
persevere.
Or anytime she has a platform, she is very vocal, of course, about LGBTQ+ rights as a part
of that community herself.
Very strong on transgender rights and again uses her platforms in order to discuss what's
(06:55):
happening and what we're fighting for in those fears.
But I found what she said at the Grammys truly interesting because she said it's about time,
like she talked about workers' rights and workers' rights within the industry.
She said that artists, once they sign on with a record label, emerging artists was what she
(07:17):
was referring to at the time.
They don't have access to healthcare coverage, a lot of them.
They don't have access to a living wage.
And she said that if she was ever to be on the Grammy stage, that that would be one of the
first things that she wanted to bring to light is that these record labels have such a hold
on the people that they represent because these folks are so interested and their whole
(07:43):
life has been put towards making it in the industry that they often are in a vulnerable
situation to get misused or the power dynamic to not work in their favors.
So I'm just wondering if that's something that you saw Christopher in your time in the
music industry is how that relationship was around artists being vocal in some of these
(08:06):
social justice issues or political issues.
Have you seen a change?
As again, when I started in it was mostly male dominated and of course you would have certain
artists who would take a stand on certain events happening in the world or certain things that
weren't necessarily at the top of mind when it came to being popular that they would speak
(08:32):
out against.
But not I think what women have been able to do is to make it their main platform.
It's part of their art. It's not a side dish that they go to that is actually embedded into
who they are and how they express themselves because they have lived a life of not being
(08:58):
privileged.
So to speak.
So that's who they are and that is going to be expressed in their art.
Whereas for men they have a different motive.
It's about being a star, making the money, being the superstar, things that they may be concerned
about in social life that necessarily need to be brought into their art per se.
(09:25):
In fact it may even be seen as a detriment to their fame overall.
I mean I have to shout out to groups like U2 and other artists who have made social
issues part of their music as well and have really really triumphed in doing that.
But women in general have always had that baked into what it is that they have to say.
(09:53):
And because that's how the world has treated them.
So that to overcome so much that it cannot be helped but baked into the message that they
put out into the world.
As far as I don't know that male artists get treated any differently as far as working
wages and so on and so forth.
I'm not sure that males had that privilege.
(10:17):
Males had the privilege of a platform that worshipped male artists.
So they had an open door to make the kind of money and gain the kind of fame that women
didn't have access to.
So that became their working wage.
They had the fame, they had the money, they had all access to everything that they needed
as far as their social financial needs demanded.
(10:41):
So I'm not sure how that can be baked in or worked into signing with the record label.
Because I don't know that they see that as their responsibility.
Their responsibility is to finance you, get you on the big stage so that you can make
more money for them and for yourself.
That's their role.
So I'm not sure.
(11:02):
I find it fascinating that a woman would take that model and reshape it into okay.
Let's make this into like a regular job situation where you take care of my dental, you take
care of my, you know, etc, etc, etc.
That is fascinating to me.
It's amazing a woman has brought that up as the model going forward.
(11:25):
That's cool.
I was equally surprised because I think that we do put celebrities and record labels on
a pedestal of, you know, well, of course, you'll be able to afford those things because,
you know, you're on the big stage and you're bringing in what you think is, you know, a substantial
amount of income in order to get your own healthcare coverage through a private company
(11:50):
or what have you.
But her thoughts, I clearly, and she did articulate that was around the emerging artists that just
isn't the case for.
They're still trying to get exposure.
So an interesting and yes, I think very cool conversation to open other people's minds
to the prospect of this is still a job and these people invest their whole lives into
(12:16):
making it a livelihood.
So pretty darn cool with that.
And just for what you were saying with the other pieces that, you know, these women that
you worked with in the music industry, that what they put forward in their activism was
part of their identity or what they put forward in their music, it was just, it was part
(12:37):
of who they are.
And I think that that's, you know, still what we're seeing with these women, you know,
it reminds me of, you know, even at this point, I'm used to her platform to talk about advocating
for immigrants, which of course, very bold statement in the USA right now.
(12:57):
So that alongside how Billie Eilish has come out in the queer community clearly Taylor Swift,
like her whole Miss Americana was all about taking the muzzle off and being able to be her
full self and not have a record label control how she talks or what she says or how she says
it.
And it just seems to me that they're using their voices for bigger conversations that, you
(13:20):
know, music isn't just for entertainment, but it is activism and it is their identity
and it is their power.
So it's nice to hear like how women have carved the way for that in the past.
And I think that it just continues to reach bigger and bigger heights to knock back down
of the box that people try to put us in.
(13:44):
Yeah, like I said, I didn't know that I was being influenced when I worked with these women.
However, the way that they expressed themselves, the truth that they expressed in their work
and in everything they did, obviously I was influenced by that.
I saw women in a space where men had been and they were standing in that space not looking
(14:12):
for handouts, not looking for favors.
They were there with enormous strength to express themselves, not knowing what feedback
would be even within their own industry, but doing it anyway because that was their truth.
I learned a lot just being in the presence of women like that with the kind of strength
(14:37):
that they show and the honesty that they approach their work every single day.
For me, it was, it changed my life, really.
I don't think I'd be doing this show.
I've been not been influenced by a woman with that kind of strength in their character.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
I think the other thing that we also saw out of this Grammys with Charli XCX and Chappell
(15:06):
Rohn, they say that Chappell Rohn is like a theatrical pop and Charli is hyper-electric pop.
Typically these are categories that don't get all the way up to the top of the charts
and kind of have their time in the sun in the mainstream arena.
(15:28):
I think there is something to be said about women taking their artistic expression and really
running with it in a way that you can't not look at them.
You can't not be intrigued with what they're doing and bringing these genres that you
don't often see on the Grammy stage really into full effect.
(15:53):
The pink pony, I have never seen a performance quite like that.
But she seems, you know, when you see her in interviews, you know, and when she talks about
the relationship she had with her father and what that kind of dramatic sometimes can't
be theatrical pop meant to her as being able to have fun and joy in life even through
(16:17):
so many of the hardships that people are facing today in different communities or marginalized
groups are facing.
To me that performance really encapsulated that to kind of break out of the norm and, you
know, as they say in the queer community, let your freak fly and fly it proudly.
(16:38):
Well, I mean, that's the, obviously that's the paradigm shift in music is that you don't
need a label per se in order for you to find your audience anymore.
Like that was the gateway to building an audience and gaining whatever fame and reach that you
(16:59):
could imagine.
You don't need a label to give you that anymore.
You know, that's very true. And even with Charli, you know, she had a hit, I don't know, it
was over a decade ago and she came back with a fury over these last couple years with
her Brat album and I'm like, there's not a woman that I talked to young old, it doesn't
(17:23):
matter what their age is that didn't either know what brat meant or was confused because
they had heard their kids saying it or the younger generation saying it, but it was absolutely
iconic.
And when you talk to younger women that that album spoke to, Brat meant, you know, I'm
(17:44):
going to try my best here because you know, I'm talking about Zoomers and I'm a Millennial
so this is a younger generation for me, really feeling my age Christopher.
But that it is like an uninhibited, unapologetic sense of self and that you deserve your own
exploration and you deserve to stand for who you are and love the way you want to love
(18:08):
and love your body, love your passions, your ambitions and that if people don't want that
for you or respect that in you for what you are, that it doesn't matter, you know, that
real is, yeah, it is, okay, I could be called a brat.
I think there's some parallels even with what people used to call bitch, right?
(18:29):
No, there's no, it is.
It is.
They're the same.
Because if you talk about bitch the way we talk about bitch and we propose and promote
bitch, there's no difference.
Absolutely.
I really do feel like there's such a parallel there and that's why, you know, I've just
(18:49):
loved the conversations that we've had around bitch because really that is exactly what we've
been working towards is not, yeah, and Brat summer.
I mean, Brat summer was the, I don't know, the biggest deal even when Kamala was running,
you know, one of the things that Charlie said on her Twitter or on her X was Kamala is Brat
(19:12):
and that was a huge endorsement for her.
So it's amazing to hear, you know, just how pervasive these artists have been and in absolutely
shaping not only pop culture and genres of music, but what that means to women in that generation
who also have rippling effects on how that, you know, they talk to their moms about being
(19:35):
unapologetically themselves and what it means to not only define their expressions as to
what I've said already, but really there is a really big piece to it.
That's their sexual power, right?
Like part of what Charli and so many other artists bring to the table is what does sexuality
(19:56):
mean for women in today's world.
So, and I think that's another element that we dive into quite a bit, but it's, it was an
amazing, I mean, when I think about the Grammys and also, you know, you saw Kendrick Lamar
clean up in a way that, you know, it was really great to see him honored for his amazing
(20:18):
artistic mind.
Like, he's so talented and he also made a, he said to the Grammys several years ago that
he would never be back because they've been so racist and who gets honored for different
categories or not.
And he was back.
He was back for the first time in since that hiatus because it was clear that some big
(20:41):
changes were happening, you know, with album of the year and, and, you know, I can't pronounce
her name because I don't know her very well yet, but I want to get to know her better.
I think it's Doechii and she won Best Rap Album.
She's the third woman to ever do so.
She had an outstanding performance.
She's also part of the LGBTQIA+ community.
(21:05):
Another amazing example of somebody whose creativity has pushed, pushed the boundaries in a world
that sometimes it feels like a lot of boundaries have already been pushed.
She took it to a whole new level.
Well, it's interesting.
The reason I started off with life imitates art or art imitates life is simply because
(21:27):
what we're seeing on stage, as you say, the representation of so many different lifestyles
is that art setting the stage that can be now transferred into life.
If we're accepting it on this stage as art, are we now open in our souls and hearts to accept
(21:51):
this in our day to day lives?
Is that the flow of life?
Is it life imitating art?
I love coming back for a circle to that because, you know, I do think that when you think
about how life influences art and life and art back into music, that women in music aren't
(22:11):
just winning.
You know, they're leading and they're challenging the industry and they're setting the cultural
tone for what comes next.
So, you know, I think that there's a lot of promise in where we're heading next.
It was an exciting night to watch and it's a culmination of all of their hard work for
so many years to see that kind of a change and that kind of representation.
(22:35):
Absolutely.
Absolutely, especially from my background in knowing these pioneering women.
Every time I think of this, I go back to what year was it, 1963, and Leslie Gore with
You Don't Own Me.
(23:02):
That one just keeps coming back up, doesn't it?
You know, that one?
It's haunting and it's just, it's real, it's almost timeless, you know.
It is.
It's a timeless, timeless song.
It is, it is absolutely.
Yes, let's hope that it is life imitating art moving forward because there's so much
(23:22):
to hope for and look forward to when we look at art and where it has changed its tone over
the last just few years.
Absolutely.
In some of the world that we're in today politically, it honestly was a night of a lot of joy.
And one of my favorite quotes right now is that joy deserves as much attention and care
(23:45):
as the struggle.
So it was very moving to see how these women are using the platforms to be that change,
to be that identity, to be that power and I'm really excited about seeing where they had
next and how they keep reshaping the music industry and even life itself.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(24:06):
Well, thanks for educating me on what today's world looks like as far as that perspective
is concerned.
So thank you so much for that.
I love it so good to hear about your life in the music industry, Christopher.
I always get so much out of our conversations.
And hey, we are going to continue these kinds of conversations as we walk through and look
(24:28):
forward to hearing more about the Bitch.
We have a lot in the works around that word and entity.
Come on back because we have a lot more for you.
And you have a listening too?
The Virgin.
The Beauty.
And the Brat Bitch.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
One of the same.
Find us, Like us, and Share us.
(24:48):
Come on back.
Bring your friends.
We invite you all.
To become a partner in the BBB community, we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com.
Like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
And share us with people who are defiantly different.
(25:10):
Like you.
Until next time.
Thanks for listening.
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