October 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes' journey to becoming a leading trauma expert is marked by all the required academic qualifications (BA, M.Ed., Th.D., and PhD Candidate), but her unflinching wisdom was forged through profound personal challenges. The 2017 murder of her nephew and her 2021 diagnosis with pulmonary fibrosis and lupus, terminal illnesses requiring a double lung transplant, forged a life story that is a masterclass in resilience and radical self-acceptance. Her experiences convey that while adversity is unavoidable and unpredictable, how we respond is always our choice—but, with the right support, we can turn even our most painful experiences into platforms for growth, advocacy, and joy.
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(00:00):
Virgin.
(00:02):
Beauty.
Bitch.
Podcast.
Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear
of being defiantly different.
Your hosts.
Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
Aside from the privilege of having you listen into our conversation,
(00:25):
there's one very selfish reason why Heather and I enjoy doing this podcast, and it's this.
We love to learn!
Can you imagine what you might learn in a conversation with a social behavioral scientist?
Well, we're going to find out as we welcome social behavior scientist and organizational
(00:49):
healing community resilience expert Reverend Dr. Sennia Barnes to Virgin Beauty Bitch.
Thank you for having me and claps and snaps and everything to you because you got my name
correct.
Most people have a challenging time so who those be you?
Well, thank you for prepping me beforehand.
(01:12):
Now, I believe where our world and yours connect is we talk to women all the time about
challenges they face.
Often it's difficult for them to see the complex social patterns that influence their behavior
and often without that key information.
They feel stuck, frustrated or even defeated.
(01:34):
I'm curious if you see a familiarity in your work?
I see that so often and a lot of the women I coach.
So I'm actually a professional development coach as well as a life coach.
And so what I do is when I coach these women, most women are women who are either starting
over or have experienced some type of life challenges whether it be disability or whether
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it be just traumatic experience and they're now going back into the workforce and they're
never going through that challenge for those waters.
And what I commonly see as people, women are often just trying to figure themselves out
and constantly be in that way, being second guess.
(02:20):
And so when I think about that CEO, to your point is always this sense of refining them
self and trying to understand like who am I now that this traumatic event or experience
has happened to me.
And that's what's often a challenge, that challenge of who am I versus who someone wants
(02:41):
me to be.
That is something we face in front of a lot.
Well, your brand is literally about being resilient, determined, bold.
So can you take us back to how those three words help shape your journey and then become
the core of how you are now helping others?
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Absolutely.
So I've always been blessed with the ability to advocate for others as well as myself.
I guess if you ask the younger version of me or someone who knew me when I was younger,
they would say like, oh, she's snappy or she's really aggressive, but it wasn't that.
It was just I always, it was always something about standing up for myself.
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I guess that was something that my parents ingrained in me and then standing up for others
who always feel like their voices are being mute.
And so as I got older and like I was saying to your co-hosts with wisdom and life experience,
I just kind of haunt more on into that.
What does this really look like to be yourself, be present in your body, in your mind, but
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still be authentic to yourself no matter what anybody else is trying to portray on you.
And then in 2021, well, in 2017, my nephew was murdered and then I had to learn how to
navigate grief and still show up at work.
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And that was not something easy to do.
And then as soon as I felt like I was getting my bearings, then in 2021, I was diagnosed with
a terminal lung disease called pulmonary fibrosis.
And so that's where both of my lungs are heartened and I need a double lung transplant.
And so being forced out of my roles that I spent so many years building up, like I felt
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like I was in a higher my career and all those things.
And then for that to be stripped away from me, I had to figure out what life would then
look like.
And so that's when the resilience piece really kicked in to hard drive because I figured
I can't be the only person who something like this had happened to, but I also recognized
like there weren't that many tools out there to help me navigate through that.
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So I decided to use my voice and use my situation to be a platform so that I can support other
women who may have been experiencing something similar.
And that's what shaped the core, the core pillars of my organization and my business about
falling in love with yourself again so that you can be the most resilient and you can show
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up being authentically, unapologetically about putting one step in front of another, but
also feeling comfortable with being vulnerable and knowing that life will throw challenges at
you.
It's all about the way you view your situation and the way you begin to shift and pick
back up to move forward.
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What do you think forged that in you? I mean, so many people get, you know, I don't want to
be flip about it, but they get a hang nail and it's like, whoa, it's me and they don't want
to get out of bed or face the day.
Like, you have gone through, you've gone through a brick wall that life is put in front of
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you.
What do you think is in you?
Where did that come from?
I would definitely say it may sound easier than it was.
It would like, do not get me wrong.
This was not something like I woke up and I was like, yes, I can do this.
I could connect.
There were many of dark days, dark like really, really dark nights.
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There was some real deep depression that went into this, but what really kicked me into
gear was, so I have a son, my son is 25. He's 25 now, but in the process and going through
this, I started looking at him and I was saying to myself, what am I showing him?
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If I just give up, what am I showing him?
Like, I had to make a choice.
I had to make a choice whether I was going to let this sickness take a whole of my life
completely and just give it to the sentence of you may not make it.
Or if I was going to use my education, my background and everything in my support system to pick
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myself up and show my son something different.
I wanted to make sure that the legacy that would be left behind and what he can see is that
my mother lived.
My mother, she fought every battle, every battle faced and had won and she utilized the resources
and the tools that were around her to do that.
That's really what kicked me into drive. Just wanting to make sure that he's seen or he
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sees in me that no matter how hard or how deep the trenches are, I'm always willing to
do my best to fight for it because I wanted to make sure that he doesn't get hit where
role maps and just feel like, oh, I'm just going to give up because this thing is hard.
You have so many people right now, like you said, that one thing happened and they just
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completely give up.
But if you change the way you think and you change the way and you begin to get control over
your emotions and your feelings, then you can change your behavior.
And for me, I'm very heavy on my faith.
So I have to believe that there's a higher power greater than me that has some type of
plan.
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I might not understand the vision, but I got the mission.
And so I just keep going with my mission.
Well, I mean, when I look at that framework and your life story as you've just laid out
for us and not letting it hold you down, but also being real about the struggles, right?
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The depression and getting yourself out of where your mind was or where your life was
and saying, there's still a lot of life left for me for other people.
I'm going to use this to make sure that I can also help others.
I love that you've got the resilient is bouncing back from life challenges, determined to stay
(09:03):
focused despite the barriers.
And you said, being bold, unapologetically owning your truth.
What does that feel like for you?
Like one of our listeners, can you unpack the unapologetic piece for us?
Absolutely.
Listen, now, for those of you who are listening, sometimes it's going to feel rough.
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Sometimes your edges are going to feel rough to other people.
And I want you to understand that that is okay.
You don't always have to be somebody's cup of tea or somebody's cup of whiskey.
Just be who you are because no one can live your trauma or your story like you and no
one can tell it like you.
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So the greater power is in reclaiming your power and telling your story yourself.
There's always someone out there who's going to disagree.
There's always someone out there who's going to judge.
But when you get comfortable with self, when you get comfortable with your way of thinking,
you get comfortable with your way of being and you get comfortable or walking into rooms
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saying, you know what?
Hello, this is me.
This is who I am.
You can like me or you can not.
But you are in control of your own emotions and no one else can trigger you so that you
act where you're uncomfortable with who you are, then that's what that looks like.
That's what it looks like being unapologetically yourself because you are now comfortable with
(10:30):
who you are and the person that you are becoming.
Do you have a practice, like a tool or an exercise that you help your clients with when it comes
to stepping into your boldness that you wouldn't mind sharing with our audience?
Absolutely.
I'm glad you asked that.
So one tool, two tools I'll give you.
(10:51):
One is called brain dumping and this is something that I use all the time.
I do it twice a day.
I do it in the morning.
Sometimes five.
If I have five minutes, I'll make sure I get in five minutes.
If I have longer, I do longer.
And there's no structure.
It's just you writing down whatever is in your mind so that you can process it.
At a later time.
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If you're like me, sometimes you wake up and your mind is on overdrive and you still thinking
the things that happen.
Yes, or things that you have to get to.
But when you dump it out, you can put it to the side and come back to it later.
And when you do that, you start to recognize patterns that are within yourself that helps
you be able to shift your way of thinking and your way of navigating life.
(11:35):
That's one.
The other thing I do is sometimes I go and I stand in the mirror and I just talk to me.
Like, hey girl, this is what you're feeling.
This is how you did like this is why or you know what girl I miss you.
I miss you.
You used to do these things.
Like what's going on with your like and I talk to myself.
The mirror like I'm having a real conversation with a long time friend, but that allows me to
(12:02):
get out and articulate what I'm feeling.
Sometimes you may not have the words right away, but when you're in conversation with someone,
things, something starts to happen to you that you say, you know, oh my goodness, you know
what?
I didn't even think about that.
So sometimes you just need to talk to yourself.
I love both of those.
I am going to bring those in very easily.
(12:25):
Sometimes we need a good talking to.
Other times it's like we need to talk to each other ourselves.
I mean, that best friend.
That's like, you know, I got you.
I got you.
And sometimes I have rough conversations with myself.
Like sometimes I sometimes I have to curse myself out.
Like that was in cool.
I didn't what's up.
Like, girl, girl, what was you thinking?
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What is going on?
I'm going to kill you.
Sometimes I got to be a real nasty best friend to myself that pulls me in and say, get
it together.
You know, sometimes you have to do that.
And there's no judgment.
And there's no shame.
And sometimes when you're surrounded by people who are often the judgey people, you need
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to just step away to yourself and have that conversation with yourself.
So now it's like it's not about judgment.
It's about accountability.
And right now, and in this moment, I'm holding you accountable.
You know, you talk to yourself as you still say, I'm holding you accountable because you
know what you have options.
You have choices.
And if somebody, if no one knows what I'm going to tell you, you have to be able to tell
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yourself sometimes.
How often do you find women, people with a navigation system that they identify what
it is they actually want, how they actually want to show up in the world and then have the
fortitude and go through the exercises of actually living that is that rare or is that common
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that people have all those tools already instilled in them.
So that's a great question.
The ugly truth about that is we all have it.
We just don't tap into it.
And that's because we've been conditioned as most women have been conditioned to just pivot
or just push through.
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And they haven't been.
They haven't utilized the practice or the discernment of stopping and taking time to navigate using
the tools that they already have.
A lot of times we are going, especially right now, we're facing on social media and we
just trying to do what the next person is doing.
This person said, do it all right, I'm going to try this.
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And we don't give things, we don't give strategies enough time to actually work.
And so in my practice and in my experience, it's often a lot of the women do have that.
It's just that they have been surrounded themselves or surrounding themselves or either been
surrounded by other individuals who have been pointing the finger or trying to give them
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cookie cutter strategies and examples.
And everyone knows cookie cutter strategies, they just don't work because everyone's situation
is different.
And so when I'm working with women, a lot of times I have them do, I have them do some self
inventory.
And it's like, I want to know from you what's your love language.
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I want to know from you how you process things like how do you receive information?
And once you start to open them up to that and I'm doing that work, that's when those
things start to kick in.
And that's when they start to understand themselves better because they haven't done that work
in so long.
And when you haven't done that work, you don't know how to show up.
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You don't know how to show up and just be yourself because you spent so many years trying
to be what everyone else wanted you to be.
I think you said a phrase there that is universal and resolves all, right?
It's knowing yourself and doing the work, doing the work.
(16:09):
I think that's the most important point is that a lot of times we don't do the work, but
we expect the cherry blossoms when we like a lot of work.
You want to give you one everything.
You want everything but you don't want to do work.
That's like someone saying, that's like someone saying, I want to six pack.
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There's someone coming and I got two pieces going away.
I'm going to the beach.
I want to show what you eat in six hours of the day.
Just acting all day.
It's like, okay, how do you want to get there?
What's the reality of this thing happening if you don't do the work?
What's the reality of your behavior changing if you're not doing anything to change your
behavior?
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What's the reality of your circumstances changing if you're not doing anything to change
your circumstances?
That's like someone who's unhappy at their job and they just come to work every day and
they complain and they're complaining.
They haven't polished their resume.
They haven't applied for any other positions where they're working.
They're not doing anything but yet they keep coming to work every day talking about how
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bad they hate this job.
If you want to see something different, you have to do something different.
You can't just complain.
Amen.
I want to switch gears for a second because your work, I mean when it comes to coaching, is
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so remarkable.
But the other element of spaces that you create, I also find so needed in our world today.
I appreciate that you don't sugarcoat it.
You dive in to race, gender, identity, resilience, trauma and you do it with an energy that's inviting
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but also realistic.
Can you help us?
I think that something Christopher and I talk about a lot is, and I think it's that talked
about a lot in the world right now, is these deep polarizations of people, people really
not wanting to see each other in a common ground sort of way or really understand another
(18:19):
person's trials to get to a better place in society.
Can you walk us through some of the work that you do in having those tough conversations?
I think that the term "safespace" is problematic in certain ways in that we do our best to create
a safe space but sometimes you need to feel uncomfortable to actually do the work and to see
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the bigger picture or to get a deeper understanding.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on those sort of spaces that you create.
Sure, I'm glad you asked that because that's actually how I start off my group settings
and when my workshop is when I say a safe space.
And so before even doing the work, I say safe space but safe space for whom.
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Like who is this a safe space for?
Because my idea of a safe space may not be the same I did that you have as a safe space.
So we have to come together and we have to have some comments, some common ground, some
rules, some expectations of what this safe space is going to look like.
And the type of language that we're going to have.
So it starts off like, okay, so what are our expectations?
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Here are my expectations, what are your expectations?
Where do we intercept here?
Are there any any type of rules or any or expectations we need to add to this list?
So like for me, I'm not saying call, I'm not calling you, I'm calling you in.
And when I, when I use that terminology, it's allowing you to understand that this is not
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about judgment, this is about accountability.
So I'm going to call you in and I'm going to say like, hey, this thing, this thing said,
this thing happened.
And how do we address this?
Like what does this look like to actually address this?
I want to, I want to make sure that we're being intentional.
We're not only the language that we're using, but I want to make sure that there's an actual
actionable step that happens.
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How do we resolve this?
Because it doesn't make a difference.
And we can pour out all these ideas and we use all these big terms and names, but there's
no action or real meaningful change behind it.
And so when you say you're creating a safe space, that means when we leave this place, we
are leaving this place with the intention to make some type of changes, whether it's changes
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to our behavior or whether it's changes to the way we enter an act or what another, but
we're not leaving this place being judgmental and we're not bringing shame or point and blame
at individuals.
We're going to talk about something.
We're going to talk about this with the intention that something positive is going to come
out of it.
And also understanding that sometimes you have to sit in the uncomfortability of a situation
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so that you could come out one another side.
If everything is roses all the time, then nothing needs to change.
That's just like saying, oh, your life is great.
Life is great.
There's no racism.
There's no sexism.
There's none of these things that we're faced with every day because everything is great
and that's just untrue.
So understanding that we're going to have to be uncomfortable in this safe space in order
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for us to get to an actual space where we are making change.
It's so good.
It's so important because when these conversations happen, how you've outlined creating that
in container where there's buy-in from everyone because everyone created contributed to what
that was going to look like, it's so true because it is a safe space for who.
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And often the safe space is to keep the most powerful, comfortable.
And that's not the point.
And it's saying you say this safe space, imagine walking into a room and someone saying,
oh, this is a group and they say, this is a safe space, but every time you have an opinion
or you have a question about something, you're constantly being shut down.
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Well, who is this a safe space for?
And is this space about making whoever's holding this space more comfortable about their
opinions and their thoughts?
Or is this space about shifting the way everyone thinks to us to make a situation better?
And that's what's the big part.
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And that's how a lot of people in spaces where they feel like this is not safe and I don't
want to come back because they feel like either their voices being muted or they feel like
their opinions are being dismissed.
And then they shut down.
And it's like, all right, I'm here for how much longer?
When is this over?
How much longer I've got to be here?
Oh my goodness, this meeting could have been an email.
I guess.
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That's when you start having those feelings because you feel like you're wasting your time
and no one wants to waste their time.
Time is the one thing you can't get back.
So I'm very intentional about how I spend my time but also how I spend others time.
So you work with individuals, you work with companies, businesses, you work with organizations
like you cover the gamut because what you're talking about here is at the crux of all
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of these institutions working properly.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And so I do it in different ways.
So when I work with individuals, now when I work with individuals, a lot of individuals
I work with are survivors either domestic abuse, long term illness or gun violence.
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But then when I, and then I connect that with my support group.
So once they get, once they get to a phase or a place where they're comfortable enough to
be in the space and share with others, then I link them to my support group.
And so I had that phase.
But I also train leadership organization and leadership teams how to navigate these spaces
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and create these spaces for their employees so that they can show up being the best version
of themselves but also be the most productive version of themselves.
And so that's what sets my business apart from others because most people when they do
leadership training, they're just training based on the idea of what the legal wants or
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say they need.
But my thing is I take leaders and organizations through a training themselves first and so
that they can get to understand it's not only what you need.
If you want your business to be successful, then that success has to start from the top.
And your leadership is a title.
Your leadership is a skill.
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Your leadership is not, it's not a position.
Like it's not, people tend to think that leadership, oh, leadership, that's the job.
It's not only a job.
It's a skill that you have been taught and you have to learn and you have to polish and
craft.
And so if you're going to be a good leader, a good leader has to also know how to be a
good shepherd.
Which means you have to know how to lead and guide and just being by treating people nasty
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and not lead them from a place of empathy or compassion, then you're not leading, you're
dictating.
And once they get, once they're able to understand that, they're able to understand, okay, this
is how I get a return on my investment with staff because I'm nourishing their mental
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and emotional so that they're coming and they're willing to work extra hours, willing to
put in indeed the most productive.
And that's what it's really about.
I, we love to ask our guest this question.
You know, the three names, words in our name of this podcast usually have a very visceral
(25:50):
response or a deeper meaning, sometimes a surface meeting.
But I'm wondering if of the virgin, the beauty and the bitch.
Does one stand out to you or like a relationship that with one of those words or more than
one that you would like to share with our guests?
You're trying to get me in trouble, man.
(26:11):
You're trying to get me in trouble.
We love all three.
All three, we love all three.
I love all three and I feel like you kind of have to go through all three to really get
to understand who you are.
And so when you think about, when you think about the virgin, I think about stripping yourself
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and going through this incubation phase of when you're getting to learn exactly who you
are.
And then that's when I pivot more over to transition to the beauty because then the beauty
in that is that hello to yourself all over again.
It's that, it's those moments when you start to feel and find and find your voice again
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when you start to say like, this is who I am as a leader, this is who I am as a person and
fall in love all over again.
And whatever that love language and whatever that day to day that brings you that joy you
happen, it's look like.
But then there's also the bitches.
Also that time where you have to step back and you have to say, listen, no is a complete
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sentence.
Like, like, I'm reclaiming my time.
I'm reclaiming my peace and the bitch of it doesn't have to be a negative thing.
It's just that time.
It's that getting to know and understand that if I don't take care of me mentally, physically
and emotionally, no one else will.
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And I think a lot of not I think, but I know often people look at the term bitch and they
look at it as a insult or bad thing or a nasty thing, but it's not and it's not about that
in that sense.
And this sense is just about you.
It's about you deciding and setting your expectation and boundaries for yourself and holding
yourself accountable.
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And so to other people, they may call it a bitch phase, but to you, you know that this is
a comment and me phase.
Wow.
It is.
So, senior, when we started this Heather and I, we've told this several times, those three
words were provocative and well known.
(28:19):
So they just seem to be a great foundation for a provocative podcast.
We've been doing this now for eight years and each step along the way, the depth that
you just so eloquently described is how we have fallen in love with these words.
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And to us, why they are so powerful, so necessary to understand as a woman because they represent
your power.
They're not, they're not words used that people can just, you know, use and put you into a category
with.
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These are words you can stand on as a foundation and build from exactly in the way you just
describe them.
Thank you for exposing that in such an eloquent way.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me and allowing me and sharing this space with me.
When I first heard the name, I was like, "Ooh, I'm so good."
I got, I got, this is interesting.
I'm going to learn more.
(29:25):
I'm going to be going with this.
And so I'm so happy to be in this space and be able to have this discussion with you both
today because that's exactly what I thought of when I saw those three words.
And I just was saying, this is like, this is a journey.
This is a journey that needs to go down.
(29:45):
So, thank you.
Tell us about your work.
Tell us how people can connect with your work.
Tell us how they can connect with your books.
Please, the floor is yours.
Let us know about you.
Absolutely.
So, yes, I'm Reverend Dr. Senu Barnes.
I'm from Brooklyn, New York.
My organization is on the Melcone to tell Anderson Foundation, fighting against the
(30:08):
environmental and volunteer education.
However, my business is gold, my thoughts.
As a speaker, I go by RDB Speaks, which is my name by initial.
You can find me on all social media platforms.
That's RDB, underscore Speaks.
My books are self-help books, grieving to hill, the courageous pursuit of authenticity,
(30:32):
and trying off in the trenches, volume 1 and 2, volume 3 will be coming out in February
so snaps up, stay tuned.
And then also loving yourself through the trauma.
And that's a workbook that guides you through my framework of moving from try-on to trenches
and finding how to fall in love with yourself all over again.
(30:54):
If you follow me on social media, the link is in the bio and that will allow you to get
a copy of all of the books.
So, Senu, give us the definition behind your name again.
Yes, so my name is Senu.
Most people will see it and they would think that because they start with an X, they would
think it's Zenu, because it's actually Senu and the meaning of it is hospitable and welcoming.
(31:19):
I would also add Hurricane.
You are...
You are...
Powerhouse.
You are Hurricane in what it is that you, the change you make in the world around you.
Like you are amazing, absolutely amazing.
It is our absolute privilege and pleasure to talk to you.
(31:41):
Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for having me and if I had one thing you can ask to say, it would just
be sometimes the storm that comes, it's not meant to break you, sometimes it's meant to shake
you of the things that were holding you back.
Thank you so much.
(32:01):
And you have been listening too.
The Virgin.
The Beauty.
And the Bitch.
Find us like us.
Share us.
Please, come on back.
Bring your friends.
To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com
like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and share us with people who are defiantly different
(32:28):
like you.
Until next time, thanks for listening.
[Music]
Virgin.
(00:02):
Beauty.
Bitch.
Podcast.
Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear
of being defiantly different.
Your hosts.
Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
Aside from the privilege of having you listen into our conversation,
(00:25):
there's one very selfish reason why Heather and I enjoy doing this podcast, and it's this.
We love to learn!
Can you imagine what you might learn in a conversation with a social behavioral scientist?
Well, we're going to find out as we welcome social behavior scientist and organizational
(00:49):
healing community resilience expert Reverend Dr. Sennia Barnes to Virgin Beauty Bitch.
Thank you for having me and claps and snaps and everything to you because you got my name
correct.
Most people have a challenging time so who those be you?
Well, thank you for prepping me beforehand.
(01:12):
Now, I believe where our world and yours connect is we talk to women all the time about
challenges they face.
Often it's difficult for them to see the complex social patterns that influence their behavior
and often without that key information.
They feel stuck, frustrated or even defeated.
(01:34):
I'm curious if you see a familiarity in your work?
I see that so often and a lot of the women I coach.
So I'm actually a professional development coach as well as a life coach.
And so what I do is when I coach these women, most women are women who are either starting
over or have experienced some type of life challenges whether it be disability or whether
(02:00):
it be just traumatic experience and they're now going back into the workforce and they're
never going through that challenge for those waters.
And what I commonly see as people, women are often just trying to figure themselves out
and constantly be in that way, being second guess.
(02:20):
And so when I think about that CEO, to your point is always this sense of refining them
self and trying to understand like who am I now that this traumatic event or experience
has happened to me.
And that's what's often a challenge, that challenge of who am I versus who someone wants
(02:41):
me to be.
That is something we face in front of a lot.
Well, your brand is literally about being resilient, determined, bold.
So can you take us back to how those three words help shape your journey and then become
the core of how you are now helping others?
(03:04):
Absolutely.
So I've always been blessed with the ability to advocate for others as well as myself.
I guess if you ask the younger version of me or someone who knew me when I was younger,
they would say like, oh, she's snappy or she's really aggressive, but it wasn't that.
It was just I always, it was always something about standing up for myself.
(03:29):
I guess that was something that my parents ingrained in me and then standing up for others
who always feel like their voices are being mute.
And so as I got older and like I was saying to your co-hosts with wisdom and life experience,
I just kind of haunt more on into that.
What does this really look like to be yourself, be present in your body, in your mind, but
(03:52):
still be authentic to yourself no matter what anybody else is trying to portray on you.
And then in 2021, well, in 2017, my nephew was murdered and then I had to learn how to
navigate grief and still show up at work.
(04:12):
And that was not something easy to do.
And then as soon as I felt like I was getting my bearings, then in 2021, I was diagnosed with
a terminal lung disease called pulmonary fibrosis.
And so that's where both of my lungs are heartened and I need a double lung transplant.
And so being forced out of my roles that I spent so many years building up, like I felt
(04:37):
like I was in a higher my career and all those things.
And then for that to be stripped away from me, I had to figure out what life would then
look like.
And so that's when the resilience piece really kicked in to hard drive because I figured
I can't be the only person who something like this had happened to, but I also recognized
like there weren't that many tools out there to help me navigate through that.
(05:01):
So I decided to use my voice and use my situation to be a platform so that I can support other
women who may have been experiencing something similar.
And that's what shaped the core, the core pillars of my organization and my business about
falling in love with yourself again so that you can be the most resilient and you can show
(05:23):
up being authentically, unapologetically about putting one step in front of another, but
also feeling comfortable with being vulnerable and knowing that life will throw challenges at
you.
It's all about the way you view your situation and the way you begin to shift and pick
back up to move forward.
(05:44):
What do you think forged that in you? I mean, so many people get, you know, I don't want to
be flip about it, but they get a hang nail and it's like, whoa, it's me and they don't want
to get out of bed or face the day.
Like, you have gone through, you've gone through a brick wall that life is put in front of
(06:05):
you.
What do you think is in you?
Where did that come from?
I would definitely say it may sound easier than it was.
It would like, do not get me wrong.
This was not something like I woke up and I was like, yes, I can do this.
I could connect.
There were many of dark days, dark like really, really dark nights.
(06:28):
There was some real deep depression that went into this, but what really kicked me into
gear was, so I have a son, my son is 25. He's 25 now, but in the process and going through
this, I started looking at him and I was saying to myself, what am I showing him?
(06:50):
If I just give up, what am I showing him?
Like, I had to make a choice.
I had to make a choice whether I was going to let this sickness take a whole of my life
completely and just give it to the sentence of you may not make it.
Or if I was going to use my education, my background and everything in my support system to pick
(07:10):
myself up and show my son something different.
I wanted to make sure that the legacy that would be left behind and what he can see is that
my mother lived.
My mother, she fought every battle, every battle faced and had won and she utilized the resources
and the tools that were around her to do that.
That's really what kicked me into drive. Just wanting to make sure that he's seen or he
(07:36):
sees in me that no matter how hard or how deep the trenches are, I'm always willing to
do my best to fight for it because I wanted to make sure that he doesn't get hit where
role maps and just feel like, oh, I'm just going to give up because this thing is hard.
You have so many people right now, like you said, that one thing happened and they just
(07:58):
completely give up.
But if you change the way you think and you change the way and you begin to get control over
your emotions and your feelings, then you can change your behavior.
And for me, I'm very heavy on my faith.
So I have to believe that there's a higher power greater than me that has some type of
plan.
(08:19):
I might not understand the vision, but I got the mission.
And so I just keep going with my mission.
Well, I mean, when I look at that framework and your life story as you've just laid out
for us and not letting it hold you down, but also being real about the struggles, right?
(08:41):
The depression and getting yourself out of where your mind was or where your life was
and saying, there's still a lot of life left for me for other people.
I'm going to use this to make sure that I can also help others.
I love that you've got the resilient is bouncing back from life challenges, determined to stay
(09:03):
focused despite the barriers.
And you said, being bold, unapologetically owning your truth.
What does that feel like for you?
Like one of our listeners, can you unpack the unapologetic piece for us?
Absolutely.
Listen, now, for those of you who are listening, sometimes it's going to feel rough.
(09:26):
Sometimes your edges are going to feel rough to other people.
And I want you to understand that that is okay.
You don't always have to be somebody's cup of tea or somebody's cup of whiskey.
Just be who you are because no one can live your trauma or your story like you and no
one can tell it like you.
(09:46):
So the greater power is in reclaiming your power and telling your story yourself.
There's always someone out there who's going to disagree.
There's always someone out there who's going to judge.
But when you get comfortable with self, when you get comfortable with your way of thinking,
you get comfortable with your way of being and you get comfortable or walking into rooms
(10:08):
saying, you know what?
Hello, this is me.
This is who I am.
You can like me or you can not.
But you are in control of your own emotions and no one else can trigger you so that you
act where you're uncomfortable with who you are, then that's what that looks like.
That's what it looks like being unapologetically yourself because you are now comfortable with
(10:30):
who you are and the person that you are becoming.
Do you have a practice, like a tool or an exercise that you help your clients with when it comes
to stepping into your boldness that you wouldn't mind sharing with our audience?
Absolutely.
I'm glad you asked that.
So one tool, two tools I'll give you.
(10:51):
One is called brain dumping and this is something that I use all the time.
I do it twice a day.
I do it in the morning.
Sometimes five.
If I have five minutes, I'll make sure I get in five minutes.
If I have longer, I do longer.
And there's no structure.
It's just you writing down whatever is in your mind so that you can process it.
At a later time.
(11:12):
If you're like me, sometimes you wake up and your mind is on overdrive and you still thinking
the things that happen.
Yes, or things that you have to get to.
But when you dump it out, you can put it to the side and come back to it later.
And when you do that, you start to recognize patterns that are within yourself that helps
you be able to shift your way of thinking and your way of navigating life.
(11:35):
That's one.
The other thing I do is sometimes I go and I stand in the mirror and I just talk to me.
Like, hey girl, this is what you're feeling.
This is how you did like this is why or you know what girl I miss you.
I miss you.
You used to do these things.
Like what's going on with your like and I talk to myself.
The mirror like I'm having a real conversation with a long time friend, but that allows me to
(12:02):
get out and articulate what I'm feeling.
Sometimes you may not have the words right away, but when you're in conversation with someone,
things, something starts to happen to you that you say, you know, oh my goodness, you know
what?
I didn't even think about that.
So sometimes you just need to talk to yourself.
I love both of those.
I am going to bring those in very easily.
(12:25):
Sometimes we need a good talking to.
Other times it's like we need to talk to each other ourselves.
I mean, that best friend.
That's like, you know, I got you.
I got you.
And sometimes I have rough conversations with myself.
Like sometimes I sometimes I have to curse myself out.
Like that was in cool.
I didn't what's up.
Like, girl, girl, what was you thinking?
(12:50):
What is going on?
I'm going to kill you.
Sometimes I got to be a real nasty best friend to myself that pulls me in and say, get
it together.
You know, sometimes you have to do that.
And there's no judgment.
And there's no shame.
And sometimes when you're surrounded by people who are often the judgey people, you need
(13:11):
to just step away to yourself and have that conversation with yourself.
So now it's like it's not about judgment.
It's about accountability.
And right now, and in this moment, I'm holding you accountable.
You know, you talk to yourself as you still say, I'm holding you accountable because you
know what you have options.
You have choices.
And if somebody, if no one knows what I'm going to tell you, you have to be able to tell
(13:32):
yourself sometimes.
How often do you find women, people with a navigation system that they identify what
it is they actually want, how they actually want to show up in the world and then have the
fortitude and go through the exercises of actually living that is that rare or is that common
(13:58):
that people have all those tools already instilled in them.
So that's a great question.
The ugly truth about that is we all have it.
We just don't tap into it.
And that's because we've been conditioned as most women have been conditioned to just pivot
or just push through.
(14:18):
And they haven't been.
They haven't utilized the practice or the discernment of stopping and taking time to navigate using
the tools that they already have.
A lot of times we are going, especially right now, we're facing on social media and we
just trying to do what the next person is doing.
This person said, do it all right, I'm going to try this.
(14:39):
And we don't give things, we don't give strategies enough time to actually work.
And so in my practice and in my experience, it's often a lot of the women do have that.
It's just that they have been surrounded themselves or surrounding themselves or either been
surrounded by other individuals who have been pointing the finger or trying to give them
(15:02):
cookie cutter strategies and examples.
And everyone knows cookie cutter strategies, they just don't work because everyone's situation
is different.
And so when I'm working with women, a lot of times I have them do, I have them do some self
inventory.
And it's like, I want to know from you what's your love language.
(15:23):
I want to know from you how you process things like how do you receive information?
And once you start to open them up to that and I'm doing that work, that's when those
things start to kick in.
And that's when they start to understand themselves better because they haven't done that work
in so long.
And when you haven't done that work, you don't know how to show up.
(15:44):
You don't know how to show up and just be yourself because you spent so many years trying
to be what everyone else wanted you to be.
I think you said a phrase there that is universal and resolves all, right?
It's knowing yourself and doing the work, doing the work.
(16:09):
I think that's the most important point is that a lot of times we don't do the work, but
we expect the cherry blossoms when we like a lot of work.
You want to give you one everything.
You want everything but you don't want to do work.
That's like someone saying, that's like someone saying, I want to six pack.
(16:30):
There's someone coming and I got two pieces going away.
I'm going to the beach.
I want to show what you eat in six hours of the day.
Just acting all day.
It's like, okay, how do you want to get there?
What's the reality of this thing happening if you don't do the work?
What's the reality of your behavior changing if you're not doing anything to change your
behavior?
(16:51):
What's the reality of your circumstances changing if you're not doing anything to change
your circumstances?
That's like someone who's unhappy at their job and they just come to work every day and
they complain and they're complaining.
They haven't polished their resume.
They haven't applied for any other positions where they're working.
They're not doing anything but yet they keep coming to work every day talking about how
(17:12):
bad they hate this job.
If you want to see something different, you have to do something different.
You can't just complain.
Amen.
I want to switch gears for a second because your work, I mean when it comes to coaching, is
(17:33):
so remarkable.
But the other element of spaces that you create, I also find so needed in our world today.
I appreciate that you don't sugarcoat it.
You dive in to race, gender, identity, resilience, trauma and you do it with an energy that's inviting
(17:55):
but also realistic.
Can you help us?
I think that something Christopher and I talk about a lot is, and I think it's that talked
about a lot in the world right now, is these deep polarizations of people, people really
not wanting to see each other in a common ground sort of way or really understand another
(18:19):
person's trials to get to a better place in society.
Can you walk us through some of the work that you do in having those tough conversations?
I think that the term "safespace" is problematic in certain ways in that we do our best to create
a safe space but sometimes you need to feel uncomfortable to actually do the work and to see
(18:45):
the bigger picture or to get a deeper understanding.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on those sort of spaces that you create.
Sure, I'm glad you asked that because that's actually how I start off my group settings
and when my workshop is when I say a safe space.
And so before even doing the work, I say safe space but safe space for whom.
(19:07):
Like who is this a safe space for?
Because my idea of a safe space may not be the same I did that you have as a safe space.
So we have to come together and we have to have some comments, some common ground, some
rules, some expectations of what this safe space is going to look like.
And the type of language that we're going to have.
So it starts off like, okay, so what are our expectations?
(19:29):
Here are my expectations, what are your expectations?
Where do we intercept here?
Are there any any type of rules or any or expectations we need to add to this list?
So like for me, I'm not saying call, I'm not calling you, I'm calling you in.
And when I, when I use that terminology, it's allowing you to understand that this is not
(19:50):
about judgment, this is about accountability.
So I'm going to call you in and I'm going to say like, hey, this thing, this thing said,
this thing happened.
And how do we address this?
Like what does this look like to actually address this?
I want to, I want to make sure that we're being intentional.
We're not only the language that we're using, but I want to make sure that there's an actual
actionable step that happens.
(20:11):
How do we resolve this?
Because it doesn't make a difference.
And we can pour out all these ideas and we use all these big terms and names, but there's
no action or real meaningful change behind it.
And so when you say you're creating a safe space, that means when we leave this place, we
are leaving this place with the intention to make some type of changes, whether it's changes
(20:35):
to our behavior or whether it's changes to the way we enter an act or what another, but
we're not leaving this place being judgmental and we're not bringing shame or point and blame
at individuals.
We're going to talk about something.
We're going to talk about this with the intention that something positive is going to come
out of it.
And also understanding that sometimes you have to sit in the uncomfortability of a situation
(21:00):
so that you could come out one another side.
If everything is roses all the time, then nothing needs to change.
That's just like saying, oh, your life is great.
Life is great.
There's no racism.
There's no sexism.
There's none of these things that we're faced with every day because everything is great
and that's just untrue.
So understanding that we're going to have to be uncomfortable in this safe space in order
(21:22):
for us to get to an actual space where we are making change.
It's so good.
It's so important because when these conversations happen, how you've outlined creating that
in container where there's buy-in from everyone because everyone created contributed to what
that was going to look like, it's so true because it is a safe space for who.
(21:47):
And often the safe space is to keep the most powerful, comfortable.
And that's not the point.
And it's saying you say this safe space, imagine walking into a room and someone saying,
oh, this is a group and they say, this is a safe space, but every time you have an opinion
or you have a question about something, you're constantly being shut down.
(22:08):
Well, who is this a safe space for?
And is this space about making whoever's holding this space more comfortable about their
opinions and their thoughts?
Or is this space about shifting the way everyone thinks to us to make a situation better?
And that's what's the big part.
(22:29):
And that's how a lot of people in spaces where they feel like this is not safe and I don't
want to come back because they feel like either their voices being muted or they feel like
their opinions are being dismissed.
And then they shut down.
And it's like, all right, I'm here for how much longer?
When is this over?
How much longer I've got to be here?
Oh my goodness, this meeting could have been an email.
I guess.
(22:50):
That's when you start having those feelings because you feel like you're wasting your time
and no one wants to waste their time.
Time is the one thing you can't get back.
So I'm very intentional about how I spend my time but also how I spend others time.
So you work with individuals, you work with companies, businesses, you work with organizations
like you cover the gamut because what you're talking about here is at the crux of all
(23:16):
of these institutions working properly.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And so I do it in different ways.
So when I work with individuals, now when I work with individuals, a lot of individuals
I work with are survivors either domestic abuse, long term illness or gun violence.
(23:37):
But then when I, and then I connect that with my support group.
So once they get, once they get to a phase or a place where they're comfortable enough to
be in the space and share with others, then I link them to my support group.
And so I had that phase.
But I also train leadership organization and leadership teams how to navigate these spaces
(24:02):
and create these spaces for their employees so that they can show up being the best version
of themselves but also be the most productive version of themselves.
And so that's what sets my business apart from others because most people when they do
leadership training, they're just training based on the idea of what the legal wants or
(24:22):
say they need.
But my thing is I take leaders and organizations through a training themselves first and so
that they can get to understand it's not only what you need.
If you want your business to be successful, then that success has to start from the top.
And your leadership is a title.
Your leadership is a skill.
(24:43):
Your leadership is not, it's not a position.
Like it's not, people tend to think that leadership, oh, leadership, that's the job.
It's not only a job.
It's a skill that you have been taught and you have to learn and you have to polish and
craft.
And so if you're going to be a good leader, a good leader has to also know how to be a
good shepherd.
Which means you have to know how to lead and guide and just being by treating people nasty
(25:08):
and not lead them from a place of empathy or compassion, then you're not leading, you're
dictating.
And once they get, once they're able to understand that, they're able to understand, okay, this
is how I get a return on my investment with staff because I'm nourishing their mental
(25:29):
and emotional so that they're coming and they're willing to work extra hours, willing to
put in indeed the most productive.
And that's what it's really about.
I, we love to ask our guest this question.
You know, the three names, words in our name of this podcast usually have a very visceral
(25:50):
response or a deeper meaning, sometimes a surface meeting.
But I'm wondering if of the virgin, the beauty and the bitch.
Does one stand out to you or like a relationship that with one of those words or more than
one that you would like to share with our guests?
You're trying to get me in trouble, man.
(26:11):
You're trying to get me in trouble.
We love all three.
All three, we love all three.
I love all three and I feel like you kind of have to go through all three to really get
to understand who you are.
And so when you think about, when you think about the virgin, I think about stripping yourself
(26:32):
and going through this incubation phase of when you're getting to learn exactly who you
are.
And then that's when I pivot more over to transition to the beauty because then the beauty
in that is that hello to yourself all over again.
It's that, it's those moments when you start to feel and find and find your voice again
(26:55):
when you start to say like, this is who I am as a leader, this is who I am as a person and
fall in love all over again.
And whatever that love language and whatever that day to day that brings you that joy you
happen, it's look like.
But then there's also the bitches.
Also that time where you have to step back and you have to say, listen, no is a complete
(27:15):
sentence.
Like, like, I'm reclaiming my time.
I'm reclaiming my peace and the bitch of it doesn't have to be a negative thing.
It's just that time.
It's that getting to know and understand that if I don't take care of me mentally, physically
and emotionally, no one else will.
(27:36):
And I think a lot of not I think, but I know often people look at the term bitch and they
look at it as a insult or bad thing or a nasty thing, but it's not and it's not about that
in that sense.
And this sense is just about you.
It's about you deciding and setting your expectation and boundaries for yourself and holding
yourself accountable.
(27:58):
And so to other people, they may call it a bitch phase, but to you, you know that this is
a comment and me phase.
Wow.
It is.
So, senior, when we started this Heather and I, we've told this several times, those three
words were provocative and well known.
(28:19):
So they just seem to be a great foundation for a provocative podcast.
We've been doing this now for eight years and each step along the way, the depth that
you just so eloquently described is how we have fallen in love with these words.
(28:43):
And to us, why they are so powerful, so necessary to understand as a woman because they represent
your power.
They're not, they're not words used that people can just, you know, use and put you into a category
with.
(29:04):
These are words you can stand on as a foundation and build from exactly in the way you just
describe them.
Thank you for exposing that in such an eloquent way.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me and allowing me and sharing this space with me.
When I first heard the name, I was like, "Ooh, I'm so good."
I got, I got, this is interesting.
I'm going to learn more.
(29:25):
I'm going to be going with this.
And so I'm so happy to be in this space and be able to have this discussion with you both
today because that's exactly what I thought of when I saw those three words.
And I just was saying, this is like, this is a journey.
This is a journey that needs to go down.
(29:45):
So, thank you.
Tell us about your work.
Tell us how people can connect with your work.
Tell us how they can connect with your books.
Please, the floor is yours.
Let us know about you.
Absolutely.
So, yes, I'm Reverend Dr. Senu Barnes.
I'm from Brooklyn, New York.
My organization is on the Melcone to tell Anderson Foundation, fighting against the
(30:08):
environmental and volunteer education.
However, my business is gold, my thoughts.
As a speaker, I go by RDB Speaks, which is my name by initial.
You can find me on all social media platforms.
That's RDB, underscore Speaks.
My books are self-help books, grieving to hill, the courageous pursuit of authenticity,
(30:32):
and trying off in the trenches, volume 1 and 2, volume 3 will be coming out in February
so snaps up, stay tuned.
And then also loving yourself through the trauma.
And that's a workbook that guides you through my framework of moving from try-on to trenches
and finding how to fall in love with yourself all over again.
(30:54):
If you follow me on social media, the link is in the bio and that will allow you to get
a copy of all of the books.
So, Senu, give us the definition behind your name again.
Yes, so my name is Senu.
Most people will see it and they would think that because they start with an X, they would
think it's Zenu, because it's actually Senu and the meaning of it is hospitable and welcoming.
(31:19):
I would also add Hurricane.
You are...
You are...
Powerhouse.
You are Hurricane in what it is that you, the change you make in the world around you.
Like you are amazing, absolutely amazing.
It is our absolute privilege and pleasure to talk to you.
(31:41):
Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for having me and if I had one thing you can ask to say, it would just
be sometimes the storm that comes, it's not meant to break you, sometimes it's meant to shake
you of the things that were holding you back.
Thank you so much.
(32:01):
And you have been listening too.
The Virgin.
The Beauty.
And the Bitch.
Find us like us.
Share us.
Please, come on back.
Bring your friends.
To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com
like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and share us with people who are defiantly different
(32:28):
like you.
Until next time, thanks for listening.
[Music]
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.