November 30, 2025 • 38 mins
It’s the last place any woman anticipates ever landing, but far too often, a woman’s shelter is the only haven for mothers and children fleeing abuse at home. Linda Dröfn Gunnarsdóttir is the executive director of the Association for Women's Shelters in Iceland. Linda’s reputation as an innovator and leader landed her on the BBC 100 Women to Watch list — a listing reserved for women around the world making a difference for others. We talk with Linda about Iceland being globally celebrated as a woman’s paradise due to policies that advance equality, when every day she sees women victims of gender-based violence forced into homelessness.
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Virgin, Beauty, Bitch Podcast. Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique
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life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
We are currently in the window of the United Nations 16 Days of Activism against gender-
based violence. In support of this critical global campaign, Heather and I host conversations
with women victims of violence who are passing on their experiences to support others.
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Today, however, we have an opportunity to speak with a woman who provides hands-on support
for women going through the dark days of life transformation. We welcome the Executive Director
of the Women's Shelter Association of Iceland, Linda Drowfin Gunnersdöter. Welcome to Virgin,
Beauty, Bitch.
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Thank you. And nice job on the name and everything.
Oh, I practiced for hours.
(Laughter)
Good job.
So, to the world outside, there's a belief that because of progressive initiatives around
gender equality, that Iceland is a paradise for women. In fact, BBC News filmed the documentary,
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titled, Iceland, a woman's paradise? And maybe that's a good place to start, is this
Nordic Paradox. Can you help us understand why paradise is a truth for the women of Iceland,
but also far from being the whole truth?
Yeah. Yeah, you actually were to do it yourself. It's a Nordic Paradox that we are actually
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dealing with every day when we are fighting for equality against gender-based violence
in Iceland and in the Nordic countries in the whole, actually. So, yes, there are some
aspects where we are leading the way. So, for women to gain power or get into power for
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positions in Iceland is easier. And there has been steps taking to even the wages
and make sure that we take the same time off after we have children and such things have
been taking like progressive steps forward. When they are doing these surveys about which
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country is the actual paradise of equality, they never ask about gender-based violence.
So this is something that is never measured in any of these surveys or polls that are
made. So they are not asking about these things. And actually in Iceland, we are no better
than any other country. And in many ways, we are doing worse when it comes to gender-based
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violence. So we have really put emphasis on the fact that there will never be equality
once, while you still have this problem going on in the country. So this is something that
goes hand in hand. So even though a woman goes to be an executive director of a big company,
as long as she comes home and has to be an or is a victim of violence at her own home
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and has no power there, she will never have equality in her life. So in all our approach
to gaining equality in Iceland today, for example in these women's strikes that we have
been doing for the last few years, the newest ones. We have put more emphasis on the gender-based
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violence going hand in hand with wages and other things that we have to consider.
Just for our listeners to get a little bit more knowledge on you, we'd love to hear a
little bit more of how you got into this role and kind of what are you hoping as your vision,
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as you're looking now into 2026 as executive director.
Right. I used to work before I got into this role. I was working with refugees, refugee
women for some years. And then this is a small country and you can move across different
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fields pretty easily. So I moved over to this field but really could use so much of the
expertise and experience that I had gained in other fields in this one. So you're always
working with people and the approach of the Icelandic women's shelter is really approaching
the women with like a trauma-based approach. So they are the leaders in their own journey
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and we never tell them what to do and it's really just this respect and meeting them exactly
where they are. And this is the same as we do with refugee women or for other people
in really vulnerable situations. The hope for 2026 is firstly in relations to our organization,
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we will be moving into a new shelter. This will be the first shelter in Iceland that
is actually built as such. So it's drawn up and built as a women's shelter. This is really
a good moment and a really sad one at the same time. The first women's shelter was opened
42 years ago and it was always supposed to be like a temporary solution until gender-based
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violence would disappear. So it is sad that we actually have to build a new one and a
bigger one because the violence is growing. But this is what we are doing and it is in order
for us to really be able to welcome women with like handicapped women or women with special
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needs because the house that we are in today is not good enough for that. So we are really
excited to open the doors to a broader group of women that need help and their children
of course as well. Sometimes they have handicapped children or children special needs. So we
are always trying to lower this threshold into the shelter. So to take away the shame, to
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take away these really difficult steps towards the shelter. And as you said in the beginning
these start days of coming to the shelter but actually it's really a step into the future
for them. So in the shelter itself there is joy. There is of course sadness and a lot
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of grieving of where they are now. This is a place that they really did not see themselves
going to. Nobody plans their lives going to a women's shelter. It is also a new beginning
and there is a power, like women power there. So we use every opportunity to make a good
day and celebrate. We celebrate everything. Every single birthday, everything that goes
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on there. So it's really a lot of laughter as well and like a relief of like really taking
this big step. So that's like our aspirations and then of course like in the bigger picture
it's really getting the government and the monetary policies to really step up their
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game even more. We have like a lot of women now in powerful positions but at the same time
we really would like to see them taking gender-based violence and coercive control and everything
that comes with it. Not just the physical violence but all violence more seriously. So when
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there it is called in that it is taken seriously and the women really do not have to be fighting
the system in order to get out of the situation. So this is like an ever-gone struggle for us
now. And we have this 16 days now that we have this focus on like violence online and this
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is like the newest biggest threat like the women are never free from violence even though
that they step out of the relationship the violence goes on and this is something that
has to be taken more seriously. And it is just so important that authorities sent like
a really clear tone that this is not to be tolerated that this is considered really serious
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and it was really joyful to see now in Italy this week that they were putting a new law for
family side. So it is like the the sentencing is like harsher if it is a family side as compared
to other types of murder. So it's like different from many countries where like family side or
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violence in close relationships has sent fewer years or fewer months of sentencing than if you
kill somebody out on the street. So this is was a really like you're sending such a clear message
in the world where we have music movies podcasts talking about hateful messages towards women
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and really talking about such things as there is no such thing as gender-based violence.
We are hearing this more and more in this practice that we are facing. For you this cannot be easy
work having to be in front of women at their most desperate moment. What brought you personally
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to take this on and to move with such vigor to grow it into something larger and more supportive?
I think on a personal note it's just really hard for me to get out of bed in the morning if I'm not
doing something meaningful. So it has to be something that I believe in. Secondly I used to work more
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for government like for the ministries and for the municipalities when I was helping refugees
and women of foreign origin and now this is like a association that stands aside from the system
really so I'm really working outside the system now and it really gave me just this extra power of
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having this freedom of always doing the best we can. So it's never computer says no like when you're
working in South of systems sometimes you cannot do all the things that you want to do and you don't
really know why it's just just because the system says so and Icelandic women's shelter has a lot of
trust in the among government and one of the municipalities so they really leave it up to us to
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make our own decisions so they are not trying to control us in any way. This is very different from
what is happening in the other Nordic countries for example the other shelters they are 100%
founded by government but which is good of course because then they don't have to be fighting for
money as we are doing but on the other side this means that you have really a bit gone over to the dark
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side of it and say so in a way that they can control the shelters they can say how many women can be
at the shelter they can say what women can go there and who cannot they have to have some kind of
permission to get there and things like this but that the Icelandic women's shelter it is never full
for example if all the beds are full and a woman comes to us we just pull out a sofa or we pull out
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the next door mattress so there's never a waiting list to the shelter and we decide who comes to the
shelter like every woman that has to run for more home because of violence is welcome to the
shelter nobody can tell us otherwise we make our own decisions so actually when I drive home at night
yes it is really really difficult sometimes to see the worst sites of human behavior at the same
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time I always drive home knowing that I did all I could and it's such a fulfilling feeling that you are
really using all your resources to to the fullest so and I think this is the thing that really
tears people up that are trying to work with other people that the system is stopping them from doing
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things that they want to do so this gave me the extra power to go on and really push forward I had
really good staff I could feel that there was trust within the society towards this association and
and I just really decided to go for it like there are so many women there that do not have voices
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and they are so strong and they are so really the things that they go through and the
and the and this picture in our heads that we see weak women that are being that are with them
we call them survivors we do not call them victims because that's what they are they are stuffing out
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of impossible situations sometimes so if I can give them a voice then then that's what I'll do
like you just said there you know language is so important between victim or survivor and you
know the terminology used to express what happens in these intimate partner relationships or outside
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of inter partner relationships you know we've moved in some ways from violence against women
to gender based violence I would say you know globally that's more of a norm now to try to shift
the focus of how women should either protect themselves or something that's happening to them
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but more brought in that language to make it more true to to the experience of people
and where we put the onus on when we use certain types of language so you know from your vantage point
you know do you think that saying gender based violence is enough do you think there's space
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for saying things more that you know I am hearing more and more especially from younger generations
talking about violence perpetuated by men there's more pushback on that because it's not always men
although it's most often at the hands of men and is it meaning an incorrect image to to frame it as such
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so I feel like in some ways we've tried to make it neutral enough to be inclusive of all the
different ways that this violence can happen but you that it's kind of blanketing some of the
reality of of what we're we're seeing and experiencing this is a really complicated issue because I think
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that really we should not be afraid of words and calling things that they are even though there are
of course women that use violence and there are men that are survivors we and this is just as
well as saying all life matter or not all men and things like that so we are actually just focusing
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on a systematic systematic problem which is gender based violence violence against women and
and it is violent like in I think it's 85 or 90 percent of the cases the perpetrator is a man
and this is the problem that we are facing and I have been a little this is a problem that should
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be solved by men this is not a women's problem this is a man's problem actually so we would like
to see more men coming to the table and actually figure out how can we prevent the next generation
to grow up as violent and not knowing all the ways to get you know get their feelings out
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than trying to control another person what I am afraid a little bit is that
neutralizing the language because you are saying that that young people are even going steps
further I'm also seeing young people and and government trying to take steps back and really the
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patriarchy using the neutral utilization against women so no longer we can we can no longer say women
like in many texts for example in Sweden they are taking the word women out of all of all of
the documents and you cannot call them women shelters anymore it's just so they are using the
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the fight of the gay community against the women actually and it's very paid like a patriotic thing to do
is is taking these minorities and and facing them against each other so because we started talking
about more genders and of course they are facing the same reality as we are like trans women and
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and and yeah the gay community but it has been turned against us and now we can no longer say
violence against women or women's strike or anything like that because then we are excluding
other genders but actually it's all about just not talking about women anymore so I think we should
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not be afraid to keep on talking about violence against women by the hands of men you know that's
what it is this is the struggle that we are going through now but in Iceland we have incorporated
also the gay community like in the women's strike we do not see it as a competition in any way
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but we still want to talk about women's shelters for example and the rights of women because this is
we can we have seen that this is an ever ongoing struggle and ongoing fight and the rights can be
taken away from us at any moment so it is not over even though some of us some are trying to
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make us believe that it is so that's basically the Nordic paradox that is when we start to talk about
equality and gender-based violence we are gaslighted into thinking that there is no need we are already
there which is of course not true. I think you've really touched on a critical point of where we're
at it in humanity where there is such a call to be inclusive but there are greater powers within
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the patriarchy that really do want the erasure of women and women's experience and are using this
moment as a catalyst for their bigger agenda and you know I think like for myself I'm a huge
impromptu proponent of inclusivity but there's an important lived experience for women and people
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who identify as women and non-binary people and I think when I talk to trans women and I talk to
non-binary people they say to me they see the importance of what it means to stand for women
and women's rights because they have been so under attack for so long that a fight for women
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is a great for all of us right a betterment for all of us yeah exactly and I think that also it
if they want to take out everything it's just belittling the struggle also and the fight of the
non-binary and the trans you know because they also are in their own journey which the women's
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movement is so supportive of and we're always the first ones to be there and support them in their
struggles but one should not have to cancel out the other in any way unfortunately that seems
to be the path of the bigger picture unfortunately what makes what breaks your heart when it comes to
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like you are sort of the the last station on this journey a lot of women take as far as
being safe what can we do on the first part of that journey as far as education in relationships
that give women more power to make quicker decisions in their situation is what can be done in that
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phase the thing that breaks my heart the most in my work is when they go back so when they go
back to the perpetrator after staying with us and this happens many many times it is said that it takes
on average six to seven times to step out of a abusive relationship it breaks my heart the most
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when they go back because the system failed them I understand them going back because they're stepping
out of a difficult circle in a difficult relationship with someone that is the father of your
children and somebody that you fall in love with and this is complicated but when they go back
because the system failed them it didn't didn't catch them or they are in some way not believed or
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being judged for what they are doing the system is forcing them to take their children to see their
father so they it is forcing them to be in contact with their perpetrator instead of stuffing in
and and making means that she does not have to meet her perpetrator for example but they are put
to get in their hands actually so like the police has to go to their home to get them out of the house
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because her life is even in danger and then some days or weeks later they are putting it in her
hands to take the children to see their father which is a crazy thing to us so and they and the
perpetrator of course uses all their means to get them back using this lifeline through the children
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so yeah it is very difficult to see that and what we can't do is that we can see that
we never judge them for going back and they this is their journey and sometimes they just come
again and again until this works out elderly woman and women of foreigner origin are more likely to
go back because they need faster service things need to happen fast for them in order for them not
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to returning the women of foreigner origin do not have the support system that the isolated women
have around them and women elderly women are maybe stepping out of 50 years of abuse so going back
is just such a natural thing for them even though their life is in danger so really I need the system
to catch these women and to work with them and to send them the message that this is the normal
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thing to do is to step out of the violence second thing that I would like to see is that women that
women start to see the women shelter as something for them so many women just see the women shelter
something for women that otherwise would be on the streets but it actually is a place for all women
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even though that they have parents with a sofa or their old room or a friend where they can stay
the danger of going back is so high when you stay in such situation because you're not going to
last like that so once we started to find means to get money from other sites and just the government
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we could start to provide more services so the women can stay as long as they need they get their
own personal counselor when they come in they get a counselor for the children and for like a
relationship with other children they need time they need time to gain their energy back they are so
tired and they need help to be connected to the system connected to police connected to social
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services and even though they are they have family it doesn't mean they don't need they don't
need this support and with all this extra support we have been seeing like 20 years ago more than
60% of the women were going back to the same situation and these years it's 11 to 14% and it's
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simply because of this that they get all the time they need all the support that they need
and they are not being judged where they are so we need more of that and we need this understanding
in the society that this is a complicated matter and and it needs a lot of support it doesn't
it doesn't just happen i love what you have shared there because it really speaks to the intricacies
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and how many different levels are are affected by the time you know they hit the door of a women shelter
and i know you also highlighted you know that this is for so long it's been framed as a women's
issue and i think more and more people are now saying that this is a men's issue so you know when
you think about you know you know shifting this conversation to solutions you know not performative
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ones but ones that have a deeper root what do you think would be helpful in in having that change
for neck generations or perhaps even learning for for current generations right the thing is like
in the past in the last years couple of decades we have been talking a lot to women we have been
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introducing like what services do we have for women that need help what can be done for women that
are trying to survive this kind of violence how can you detect the violence if you're like a
bystander or family member what are the red flags you know when you start a relationship so the
focus is really on how to get them out of the violence and this has really been working you know
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like there are more and more women stepping out of violence family members co-workers you know
they are interfering they are contacting us like what can i do i can see something is wrong
this had never been done like 30 years ago nobody would interfere or something like this so that
is working but this increased education and discussion about the issue has not affected the
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boys it seems or not the perpetrators it has not affected we have a new generation coming up
same kind of violence there are new tools but it's always the same violence you know it's always about
dominance isolation so i think we need to start talking to boys and i think that men need to start
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talking about boys because i think men listen differently when they are listening to other men
so and i think we need to talk to younger children and we need to talk to them about communication
about social behaviors and yeah and we need stereotypes you know we need to know man stepping
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forward that have been perpetrators explaining how they stepped out of being perpetrators without
the shame you know we need to stop maybe i think the reason that men are not stepping in is because of
both they are brought up believing that this is a women's issue and and also that you know
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it's not me so what can i do really so i really need to find keys for them to open doors to get
into the discussion and and get the seat at the table and i actually saw a project in Quebec
with like there are there i don't know if it's working but it's there like man shelters for perpetrators
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so men are going out of the homes and living in a shelter for up to a year they can only go there if
they go there voluntarily so if they're really ready to work on their things and the children you
can come there and meet their father in a secure environment and some of them i think like some famous
guys and some men that were staying there they are making like this propaganda advertisement like
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talking out loud like i stayed there and now i'm really working on myself and figure out ways to
get other ways to you know tap out my anger and you know this has to be talked about there's so
much shame around exactly this and there has to be a gateway for them to step back into society and
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factor themselves in some ways so there are many things that can be done and it's just not
you know it's not studied enough you know it's just so little things know about what can be done
and how it can be stopped i love what you've highlighted here because i i think that's truly
tremendous and i'm going to look into the the men's shelter for perpetrators because i think that's
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that's absolutely huge right it it really does it's a changing the picture for how that perpetrator
will go on in their life like the women come to a women's shelter and are looking at what they
need to heal but for the perpetrators to have access to an opportunity to do the same and not
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continue to hurt someone else i think is massive and chrisifer has heard this many times but something
that i'm very passionate about is is healthy relationship curriculum in schools and there are more
and more starting to be developed globally which i find very inspiring and that a huge piece of that
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puzzle is talking about emotions and how to understand our emotions healthy outlets for anger
because it is an important emotion but how to you know kind of harness it in a way that isn't
destructive to themselves or others but all within the broader context of what does it mean for women
to have more access to their own money their own property their own uh escape routes for lack of a
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better term so you know i think that coupled with the emotional wherewithal and learning in addition to
everything we continue to fight for every day for people to be autonomous and have agency that
all of that is a piece of the puzzle exactly and i think it's a it's a multi layered project you know
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you have to go into the schools you have to be talking to young couples at the same time
government has to be sending like a really clear message that they are on on board and actually we
have also be focusing on companies you know like companies sending out messages like these are the
one making these are the one with the money so making the advertisement like for example the other day
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we made like a contract with an insurance company that they are paying insurance to people that
need to leave their home to violence so if you're staying at a women's shelter or if you have to go
to the hospital because of violence you can show that you're actually stepping out of your home because
of violence you get paid from your insurance package and it's just like a basic thing that
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it put into the package of every insurance so you don't have to choose it at any point it's just
there and then they made this whole big you know like insurance companies do like with like on
every bus stop and everything they are like you are not alone and blah blah blah and you know
they have the money but they are at the same time sending a message to their employees and out to
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their customers that we are on board with this we are not tolerating this epidemic of abuse anymore
so it's just this multi-layered approach from every single corner of society because we have
multi-layered approach of violence everywhere we look we see violence so we also have to make this
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the discourse you know everywhere people go you know they have been showing that
they made a survey that they had a group of boys 12 to 14 year old once they lock into TikTok
they that does not last more than 20 minutes until they have some material about like hateful
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material towards women coming up on their TikTok page even though they have not been stopping on
any such material before if they google feminism I think like the third or fourth video that appears
is untruthate not about feminism but about against feminism so they are being bombarded all the time
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so we really need to like work together on this one it doesn't happen on one one station at a time
I'm so happy to hear you say that multi-layered because I think we believe that there's a there's this
holy grail solution for these problems and there's not it has to filter through so many different
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layers and so many different layers have to want to change and want something better
that's that's a critically important statement and looking at it. It is of course before beforehand
I think some years ago they actually did believe that with more education about gender-based violence
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this would be fixed and they were just not really facing the truth that this is something
this is a patriarchy boiling underneath everything that we are in our existence so it doesn't
like I really wish for like a magic solution but this is the I think this is the only way forward
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agreed totally agreed so in this in this context of this conversation what can people listen
listening to this gain that would make your initiatives and the work you do
go even further I think it's always this magic of everybody makes a difference so firstly if there
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is someone around you that you suspect is a survivor or is living with violence or is being treated
violently ask them ask them about it that's the one thing that the women say like I wish somebody
would have asked me at some point they might react really violently they might not talk to you again
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but it does initiate a thought process about okay this is a normal people are asking me about this
so ask them that's something that everybody can do in their environment step into conversations
that are being like really hateful towards women or to against feminism racist or whatever you know
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like this is getting so serious that we cannot be turning our heads like oh these people are crazy
it is getting so big that it is not only like the crazy people this is just a discourse that
is growing and growing and we have young young people you're maybe you're maybe at a Sunday dinner
and this is the discussion at the dinner table and you're really like oh I don't do like you know
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ruin the mood and start answering them but at the same time you have teenagers and children
listening to this so you really have to sacrifice yourself and just step into the discussion and take
the take the fights really you know every every moment so these are like the little things that we can
do and then like if you are in the position of power if you are a manager of a company like how
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can my company really send a message maybe just to the employees you know send a message like
okay if there is any employee here that is a victim of violence or is living in violence
do not hesitate to come hesitate to come and talk to us we will work with you to figure it out
you can have extra days off we have an extra week off for everyone that is trying to step out of
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violence there's so many things that you can do to send the message that you are on board in this
fight ground level yeah so we've kept you up past your bedtime
and we cannot be more honored to have your voice and to hear more about what you believe in
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and what you work towards and the changes it'll make in the world moving forward we cannot thank you
enough thank you for having me it's really been a pleasure to get to know you a bit better and thank
you for your insights if people want to learn more about the women's shelter or some of your videos
where can they find that information okay the Icelandic word is too complicated but if you just
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tap in women's shelter Iceland we are the ones we are the only ones so you will always end up on
our web page and figure and find everything about us there fabulous thank you so much
and it's been absolute pleasure talking to you thanks new so nice to see you and you know if ever in
Iceland you have to come visit absolutely we were saying before this we got started that I
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volunteered at the Icelandic women's shelter several years ago so it's kind of like a reunion
right now although we've never met before but it's an a reunion in my heart so that's been really
lovely and we'll definitely come knock on your door next time I'm there yeah you have to come to
the new one and make a full circle of it you know and sit in here before thank you so much and have
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a nice day. And you have been listening to the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch. Find us, Like us
Share us, and bring yourself back. To become a partner in the VBB community we invite you to find us
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defiantly different like you until next time thanks for listening
Virgin, Beauty, Bitch Podcast. Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique
(00:10):
life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.
Let's talk, shall we?
We are currently in the window of the United Nations 16 Days of Activism against gender-
based violence. In support of this critical global campaign, Heather and I host conversations
with women victims of violence who are passing on their experiences to support others.
(00:35):
Today, however, we have an opportunity to speak with a woman who provides hands-on support
for women going through the dark days of life transformation. We welcome the Executive Director
of the Women's Shelter Association of Iceland, Linda Drowfin Gunnersdöter. Welcome to Virgin,
Beauty, Bitch.
(00:56):
Thank you. And nice job on the name and everything.
Oh, I practiced for hours.
(Laughter)
Good job.
So, to the world outside, there's a belief that because of progressive initiatives around
gender equality, that Iceland is a paradise for women. In fact, BBC News filmed the documentary,
(01:19):
titled, Iceland, a woman's paradise? And maybe that's a good place to start, is this
Nordic Paradox. Can you help us understand why paradise is a truth for the women of Iceland,
but also far from being the whole truth?
Yeah. Yeah, you actually were to do it yourself. It's a Nordic Paradox that we are actually
(01:41):
dealing with every day when we are fighting for equality against gender-based violence
in Iceland and in the Nordic countries in the whole, actually. So, yes, there are some
aspects where we are leading the way. So, for women to gain power or get into power for
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positions in Iceland is easier. And there has been steps taking to even the wages
and make sure that we take the same time off after we have children and such things have
been taking like progressive steps forward. When they are doing these surveys about which
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country is the actual paradise of equality, they never ask about gender-based violence.
So this is something that is never measured in any of these surveys or polls that are
made. So they are not asking about these things. And actually in Iceland, we are no better
than any other country. And in many ways, we are doing worse when it comes to gender-based
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violence. So we have really put emphasis on the fact that there will never be equality
once, while you still have this problem going on in the country. So this is something that
goes hand in hand. So even though a woman goes to be an executive director of a big company,
as long as she comes home and has to be an or is a victim of violence at her own home
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and has no power there, she will never have equality in her life. So in all our approach
to gaining equality in Iceland today, for example in these women's strikes that we have
been doing for the last few years, the newest ones. We have put more emphasis on the gender-based
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violence going hand in hand with wages and other things that we have to consider.
Just for our listeners to get a little bit more knowledge on you, we'd love to hear a
little bit more of how you got into this role and kind of what are you hoping as your vision,
(03:57):
as you're looking now into 2026 as executive director.
Right. I used to work before I got into this role. I was working with refugees, refugee
women for some years. And then this is a small country and you can move across different
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fields pretty easily. So I moved over to this field but really could use so much of the
expertise and experience that I had gained in other fields in this one. So you're always
working with people and the approach of the Icelandic women's shelter is really approaching
the women with like a trauma-based approach. So they are the leaders in their own journey
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and we never tell them what to do and it's really just this respect and meeting them exactly
where they are. And this is the same as we do with refugee women or for other people
in really vulnerable situations. The hope for 2026 is firstly in relations to our organization,
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we will be moving into a new shelter. This will be the first shelter in Iceland that
is actually built as such. So it's drawn up and built as a women's shelter. This is really
a good moment and a really sad one at the same time. The first women's shelter was opened
42 years ago and it was always supposed to be like a temporary solution until gender-based
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violence would disappear. So it is sad that we actually have to build a new one and a
bigger one because the violence is growing. But this is what we are doing and it is in order
for us to really be able to welcome women with like handicapped women or women with special
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needs because the house that we are in today is not good enough for that. So we are really
excited to open the doors to a broader group of women that need help and their children
of course as well. Sometimes they have handicapped children or children special needs. So we
are always trying to lower this threshold into the shelter. So to take away the shame, to
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take away these really difficult steps towards the shelter. And as you said in the beginning
these start days of coming to the shelter but actually it's really a step into the future
for them. So in the shelter itself there is joy. There is of course sadness and a lot
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of grieving of where they are now. This is a place that they really did not see themselves
going to. Nobody plans their lives going to a women's shelter. It is also a new beginning
and there is a power, like women power there. So we use every opportunity to make a good
day and celebrate. We celebrate everything. Every single birthday, everything that goes
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on there. So it's really a lot of laughter as well and like a relief of like really taking
this big step. So that's like our aspirations and then of course like in the bigger picture
it's really getting the government and the monetary policies to really step up their
(07:25):
game even more. We have like a lot of women now in powerful positions but at the same time
we really would like to see them taking gender-based violence and coercive control and everything
that comes with it. Not just the physical violence but all violence more seriously. So when
(07:46):
there it is called in that it is taken seriously and the women really do not have to be fighting
the system in order to get out of the situation. So this is like an ever-gone struggle for us
now. And we have this 16 days now that we have this focus on like violence online and this
(08:08):
is like the newest biggest threat like the women are never free from violence even though
that they step out of the relationship the violence goes on and this is something that
has to be taken more seriously. And it is just so important that authorities sent like
a really clear tone that this is not to be tolerated that this is considered really serious
(08:33):
and it was really joyful to see now in Italy this week that they were putting a new law for
family side. So it is like the the sentencing is like harsher if it is a family side as compared
to other types of murder. So it's like different from many countries where like family side or
(08:56):
violence in close relationships has sent fewer years or fewer months of sentencing than if you
kill somebody out on the street. So this is was a really like you're sending such a clear message
in the world where we have music movies podcasts talking about hateful messages towards women
(09:19):
and really talking about such things as there is no such thing as gender-based violence.
We are hearing this more and more in this practice that we are facing. For you this cannot be easy
work having to be in front of women at their most desperate moment. What brought you personally
(09:41):
to take this on and to move with such vigor to grow it into something larger and more supportive?
I think on a personal note it's just really hard for me to get out of bed in the morning if I'm not
doing something meaningful. So it has to be something that I believe in. Secondly I used to work more
(10:03):
for government like for the ministries and for the municipalities when I was helping refugees
and women of foreign origin and now this is like a association that stands aside from the system
really so I'm really working outside the system now and it really gave me just this extra power of
(10:24):
having this freedom of always doing the best we can. So it's never computer says no like when you're
working in South of systems sometimes you cannot do all the things that you want to do and you don't
really know why it's just just because the system says so and Icelandic women's shelter has a lot of
trust in the among government and one of the municipalities so they really leave it up to us to
(10:49):
make our own decisions so they are not trying to control us in any way. This is very different from
what is happening in the other Nordic countries for example the other shelters they are 100%
founded by government but which is good of course because then they don't have to be fighting for
money as we are doing but on the other side this means that you have really a bit gone over to the dark
(11:15):
side of it and say so in a way that they can control the shelters they can say how many women can be
at the shelter they can say what women can go there and who cannot they have to have some kind of
permission to get there and things like this but that the Icelandic women's shelter it is never full
for example if all the beds are full and a woman comes to us we just pull out a sofa or we pull out
(11:40):
the next door mattress so there's never a waiting list to the shelter and we decide who comes to the
shelter like every woman that has to run for more home because of violence is welcome to the
shelter nobody can tell us otherwise we make our own decisions so actually when I drive home at night
yes it is really really difficult sometimes to see the worst sites of human behavior at the same
(12:03):
time I always drive home knowing that I did all I could and it's such a fulfilling feeling that you are
really using all your resources to to the fullest so and I think this is the thing that really
tears people up that are trying to work with other people that the system is stopping them from doing
(12:25):
things that they want to do so this gave me the extra power to go on and really push forward I had
really good staff I could feel that there was trust within the society towards this association and
and I just really decided to go for it like there are so many women there that do not have voices
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and they are so strong and they are so really the things that they go through and the
and the and this picture in our heads that we see weak women that are being that are with them
we call them survivors we do not call them victims because that's what they are they are stuffing out
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of impossible situations sometimes so if I can give them a voice then then that's what I'll do
like you just said there you know language is so important between victim or survivor and you
know the terminology used to express what happens in these intimate partner relationships or outside
(13:30):
of inter partner relationships you know we've moved in some ways from violence against women
to gender based violence I would say you know globally that's more of a norm now to try to shift
the focus of how women should either protect themselves or something that's happening to them
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but more brought in that language to make it more true to to the experience of people
and where we put the onus on when we use certain types of language so you know from your vantage point
you know do you think that saying gender based violence is enough do you think there's space
(14:11):
for saying things more that you know I am hearing more and more especially from younger generations
talking about violence perpetuated by men there's more pushback on that because it's not always men
although it's most often at the hands of men and is it meaning an incorrect image to to frame it as such
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so I feel like in some ways we've tried to make it neutral enough to be inclusive of all the
different ways that this violence can happen but you that it's kind of blanketing some of the
reality of of what we're we're seeing and experiencing this is a really complicated issue because I think
(14:56):
that really we should not be afraid of words and calling things that they are even though there are
of course women that use violence and there are men that are survivors we and this is just as
well as saying all life matter or not all men and things like that so we are actually just focusing
(15:20):
on a systematic systematic problem which is gender based violence violence against women and
and it is violent like in I think it's 85 or 90 percent of the cases the perpetrator is a man
and this is the problem that we are facing and I have been a little this is a problem that should
(15:43):
be solved by men this is not a women's problem this is a man's problem actually so we would like
to see more men coming to the table and actually figure out how can we prevent the next generation
to grow up as violent and not knowing all the ways to get you know get their feelings out
(16:04):
than trying to control another person what I am afraid a little bit is that
neutralizing the language because you are saying that that young people are even going steps
further I'm also seeing young people and and government trying to take steps back and really the
(16:26):
patriarchy using the neutral utilization against women so no longer we can we can no longer say women
like in many texts for example in Sweden they are taking the word women out of all of all of
the documents and you cannot call them women shelters anymore it's just so they are using the
(16:47):
the fight of the gay community against the women actually and it's very paid like a patriotic thing to do
is is taking these minorities and and facing them against each other so because we started talking
about more genders and of course they are facing the same reality as we are like trans women and
(17:11):
and and yeah the gay community but it has been turned against us and now we can no longer say
violence against women or women's strike or anything like that because then we are excluding
other genders but actually it's all about just not talking about women anymore so I think we should
(17:32):
not be afraid to keep on talking about violence against women by the hands of men you know that's
what it is this is the struggle that we are going through now but in Iceland we have incorporated
also the gay community like in the women's strike we do not see it as a competition in any way
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but we still want to talk about women's shelters for example and the rights of women because this is
we can we have seen that this is an ever ongoing struggle and ongoing fight and the rights can be
taken away from us at any moment so it is not over even though some of us some are trying to
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make us believe that it is so that's basically the Nordic paradox that is when we start to talk about
equality and gender-based violence we are gaslighted into thinking that there is no need we are already
there which is of course not true. I think you've really touched on a critical point of where we're
at it in humanity where there is such a call to be inclusive but there are greater powers within
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the patriarchy that really do want the erasure of women and women's experience and are using this
moment as a catalyst for their bigger agenda and you know I think like for myself I'm a huge
impromptu proponent of inclusivity but there's an important lived experience for women and people
(19:04):
who identify as women and non-binary people and I think when I talk to trans women and I talk to
non-binary people they say to me they see the importance of what it means to stand for women
and women's rights because they have been so under attack for so long that a fight for women
(19:24):
is a great for all of us right a betterment for all of us yeah exactly and I think that also it
if they want to take out everything it's just belittling the struggle also and the fight of the
non-binary and the trans you know because they also are in their own journey which the women's
(19:45):
movement is so supportive of and we're always the first ones to be there and support them in their
struggles but one should not have to cancel out the other in any way unfortunately that seems
to be the path of the bigger picture unfortunately what makes what breaks your heart when it comes to
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like you are sort of the the last station on this journey a lot of women take as far as
being safe what can we do on the first part of that journey as far as education in relationships
that give women more power to make quicker decisions in their situation is what can be done in that
(20:40):
phase the thing that breaks my heart the most in my work is when they go back so when they go
back to the perpetrator after staying with us and this happens many many times it is said that it takes
on average six to seven times to step out of a abusive relationship it breaks my heart the most
(21:03):
when they go back because the system failed them I understand them going back because they're stepping
out of a difficult circle in a difficult relationship with someone that is the father of your
children and somebody that you fall in love with and this is complicated but when they go back
because the system failed them it didn't didn't catch them or they are in some way not believed or
(21:25):
being judged for what they are doing the system is forcing them to take their children to see their
father so they it is forcing them to be in contact with their perpetrator instead of stuffing in
and and making means that she does not have to meet her perpetrator for example but they are put
to get in their hands actually so like the police has to go to their home to get them out of the house
(21:50):
because her life is even in danger and then some days or weeks later they are putting it in her
hands to take the children to see their father which is a crazy thing to us so and they and the
perpetrator of course uses all their means to get them back using this lifeline through the children
(22:11):
so yeah it is very difficult to see that and what we can't do is that we can see that
we never judge them for going back and they this is their journey and sometimes they just come
again and again until this works out elderly woman and women of foreigner origin are more likely to
go back because they need faster service things need to happen fast for them in order for them not
(22:37):
to returning the women of foreigner origin do not have the support system that the isolated women
have around them and women elderly women are maybe stepping out of 50 years of abuse so going back
is just such a natural thing for them even though their life is in danger so really I need the system
to catch these women and to work with them and to send them the message that this is the normal
(23:02):
thing to do is to step out of the violence second thing that I would like to see is that women that
women start to see the women shelter as something for them so many women just see the women shelter
something for women that otherwise would be on the streets but it actually is a place for all women
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even though that they have parents with a sofa or their old room or a friend where they can stay
the danger of going back is so high when you stay in such situation because you're not going to
last like that so once we started to find means to get money from other sites and just the government
(23:44):
we could start to provide more services so the women can stay as long as they need they get their
own personal counselor when they come in they get a counselor for the children and for like a
relationship with other children they need time they need time to gain their energy back they are so
tired and they need help to be connected to the system connected to police connected to social
(24:10):
services and even though they are they have family it doesn't mean they don't need they don't
need this support and with all this extra support we have been seeing like 20 years ago more than
60% of the women were going back to the same situation and these years it's 11 to 14% and it's
(24:32):
simply because of this that they get all the time they need all the support that they need
and they are not being judged where they are so we need more of that and we need this understanding
in the society that this is a complicated matter and and it needs a lot of support it doesn't
it doesn't just happen i love what you have shared there because it really speaks to the intricacies
(24:57):
and how many different levels are are affected by the time you know they hit the door of a women shelter
and i know you also highlighted you know that this is for so long it's been framed as a women's
issue and i think more and more people are now saying that this is a men's issue so you know when
you think about you know you know shifting this conversation to solutions you know not performative
(25:25):
ones but ones that have a deeper root what do you think would be helpful in in having that change
for neck generations or perhaps even learning for for current generations right the thing is like
in the past in the last years couple of decades we have been talking a lot to women we have been
(25:48):
introducing like what services do we have for women that need help what can be done for women that
are trying to survive this kind of violence how can you detect the violence if you're like a
bystander or family member what are the red flags you know when you start a relationship so the
focus is really on how to get them out of the violence and this has really been working you know
(26:10):
like there are more and more women stepping out of violence family members co-workers you know
they are interfering they are contacting us like what can i do i can see something is wrong
this had never been done like 30 years ago nobody would interfere or something like this so that
is working but this increased education and discussion about the issue has not affected the
(26:37):
boys it seems or not the perpetrators it has not affected we have a new generation coming up
same kind of violence there are new tools but it's always the same violence you know it's always about
dominance isolation so i think we need to start talking to boys and i think that men need to start
(27:00):
talking about boys because i think men listen differently when they are listening to other men
so and i think we need to talk to younger children and we need to talk to them about communication
about social behaviors and yeah and we need stereotypes you know we need to know man stepping
(27:24):
forward that have been perpetrators explaining how they stepped out of being perpetrators without
the shame you know we need to stop maybe i think the reason that men are not stepping in is because of
both they are brought up believing that this is a women's issue and and also that you know
(27:47):
it's not me so what can i do really so i really need to find keys for them to open doors to get
into the discussion and and get the seat at the table and i actually saw a project in Quebec
with like there are there i don't know if it's working but it's there like man shelters for perpetrators
(28:11):
so men are going out of the homes and living in a shelter for up to a year they can only go there if
they go there voluntarily so if they're really ready to work on their things and the children you
can come there and meet their father in a secure environment and some of them i think like some famous
guys and some men that were staying there they are making like this propaganda advertisement like
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talking out loud like i stayed there and now i'm really working on myself and figure out ways to
get other ways to you know tap out my anger and you know this has to be talked about there's so
much shame around exactly this and there has to be a gateway for them to step back into society and
(28:59):
factor themselves in some ways so there are many things that can be done and it's just not
you know it's not studied enough you know it's just so little things know about what can be done
and how it can be stopped i love what you've highlighted here because i i think that's truly
tremendous and i'm going to look into the the men's shelter for perpetrators because i think that's
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that's absolutely huge right it it really does it's a changing the picture for how that perpetrator
will go on in their life like the women come to a women's shelter and are looking at what they
need to heal but for the perpetrators to have access to an opportunity to do the same and not
(29:43):
continue to hurt someone else i think is massive and chrisifer has heard this many times but something
that i'm very passionate about is is healthy relationship curriculum in schools and there are more
and more starting to be developed globally which i find very inspiring and that a huge piece of that
(30:05):
puzzle is talking about emotions and how to understand our emotions healthy outlets for anger
because it is an important emotion but how to you know kind of harness it in a way that isn't
destructive to themselves or others but all within the broader context of what does it mean for women
to have more access to their own money their own property their own uh escape routes for lack of a
(30:31):
better term so you know i think that coupled with the emotional wherewithal and learning in addition to
everything we continue to fight for every day for people to be autonomous and have agency that
all of that is a piece of the puzzle exactly and i think it's a it's a multi layered project you know
(30:51):
you have to go into the schools you have to be talking to young couples at the same time
government has to be sending like a really clear message that they are on on board and actually we
have also be focusing on companies you know like companies sending out messages like these are the
one making these are the one with the money so making the advertisement like for example the other day
(31:15):
we made like a contract with an insurance company that they are paying insurance to people that
need to leave their home to violence so if you're staying at a women's shelter or if you have to go
to the hospital because of violence you can show that you're actually stepping out of your home because
of violence you get paid from your insurance package and it's just like a basic thing that
(31:40):
it put into the package of every insurance so you don't have to choose it at any point it's just
there and then they made this whole big you know like insurance companies do like with like on
every bus stop and everything they are like you are not alone and blah blah blah and you know
they have the money but they are at the same time sending a message to their employees and out to
(32:02):
their customers that we are on board with this we are not tolerating this epidemic of abuse anymore
so it's just this multi-layered approach from every single corner of society because we have
multi-layered approach of violence everywhere we look we see violence so we also have to make this
(32:23):
the discourse you know everywhere people go you know they have been showing that
they made a survey that they had a group of boys 12 to 14 year old once they lock into TikTok
they that does not last more than 20 minutes until they have some material about like hateful
(32:45):
material towards women coming up on their TikTok page even though they have not been stopping on
any such material before if they google feminism I think like the third or fourth video that appears
is untruthate not about feminism but about against feminism so they are being bombarded all the time
(33:06):
so we really need to like work together on this one it doesn't happen on one one station at a time
I'm so happy to hear you say that multi-layered because I think we believe that there's a there's this
holy grail solution for these problems and there's not it has to filter through so many different
(33:30):
layers and so many different layers have to want to change and want something better
that's that's a critically important statement and looking at it. It is of course before beforehand
I think some years ago they actually did believe that with more education about gender-based violence
(33:51):
this would be fixed and they were just not really facing the truth that this is something
this is a patriarchy boiling underneath everything that we are in our existence so it doesn't
like I really wish for like a magic solution but this is the I think this is the only way forward
(34:11):
agreed totally agreed so in this in this context of this conversation what can people listen
listening to this gain that would make your initiatives and the work you do
go even further I think it's always this magic of everybody makes a difference so firstly if there
(34:38):
is someone around you that you suspect is a survivor or is living with violence or is being treated
violently ask them ask them about it that's the one thing that the women say like I wish somebody
would have asked me at some point they might react really violently they might not talk to you again
(35:01):
but it does initiate a thought process about okay this is a normal people are asking me about this
so ask them that's something that everybody can do in their environment step into conversations
that are being like really hateful towards women or to against feminism racist or whatever you know
(35:24):
like this is getting so serious that we cannot be turning our heads like oh these people are crazy
it is getting so big that it is not only like the crazy people this is just a discourse that
is growing and growing and we have young young people you're maybe you're maybe at a Sunday dinner
and this is the discussion at the dinner table and you're really like oh I don't do like you know
(35:47):
ruin the mood and start answering them but at the same time you have teenagers and children
listening to this so you really have to sacrifice yourself and just step into the discussion and take
the take the fights really you know every every moment so these are like the little things that we can
do and then like if you are in the position of power if you are a manager of a company like how
(36:11):
can my company really send a message maybe just to the employees you know send a message like
okay if there is any employee here that is a victim of violence or is living in violence
do not hesitate to come hesitate to come and talk to us we will work with you to figure it out
you can have extra days off we have an extra week off for everyone that is trying to step out of
(36:35):
violence there's so many things that you can do to send the message that you are on board in this
fight ground level yeah so we've kept you up past your bedtime
and we cannot be more honored to have your voice and to hear more about what you believe in
(36:59):
and what you work towards and the changes it'll make in the world moving forward we cannot thank you
enough thank you for having me it's really been a pleasure to get to know you a bit better and thank
you for your insights if people want to learn more about the women's shelter or some of your videos
where can they find that information okay the Icelandic word is too complicated but if you just
(37:24):
tap in women's shelter Iceland we are the ones we are the only ones so you will always end up on
our web page and figure and find everything about us there fabulous thank you so much
and it's been absolute pleasure talking to you thanks new so nice to see you and you know if ever in
Iceland you have to come visit absolutely we were saying before this we got started that I
(37:51):
volunteered at the Icelandic women's shelter several years ago so it's kind of like a reunion
right now although we've never met before but it's an a reunion in my heart so that's been really
lovely and we'll definitely come knock on your door next time I'm there yeah you have to come to
the new one and make a full circle of it you know and sit in here before thank you so much and have
(38:15):
a nice day. And you have been listening to the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch. Find us, Like us
Share us, and bring yourself back. To become a partner in the VBB community we invite you to find us
at virginbeautybitch.com like us on facebook instagram and link in and share us with people who are
(38:41):
defiantly different like you until next time thanks for listening
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