Zachary Mallory: Rise Above Justice Movement

In this episode of Voiceless Behind Bars, Sarah speaks with Zachary Mallory (he/they), one of the founders of the Rise Above Justice Movement.

Zachary opens up about the power of grassroots advocacy, what it means to fight for dignity inside and out of the prison system, and how personal experiences fuel their passion for justice reform.

Connect with the movement:
🔗 Instagram: @riseabovejusticemovement
🌐 Website: riseabovejusticemovement.com

Reach out to Sarah directly:
📧 [e-mail]
📸 TikTok/Instagram: @itssarahonly

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Voiceles Behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah Dearmund.
It's no secret that wrongful convictions happen all over the world,
but sadly, America's number one when it comes to the
most wrongful incarcerations, and that's not a good thing to
be number one at. However, here on this podcast, we

(00:25):
aim to give the mic to the wrongfully convicted, so
everyone can hear from their mouth what happened in their cases,
what went wrong, and hopefully together we can spread the word,
say their names, and give them the justice that's been
long overdue. Despite what people say, change is possible, but

(00:49):
none of us can do it alone. We need each other.
Change start with us. And while it's not easy, it
is definitely worth it. And again it is possible. Plus
the easy rouse boring anyway, So ready to make history.
This is Voiceless Fine bars.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Zoonby afraid of inside, be care foodstone, not every light
is gone, and got your baby. Don't add a main
ice big, keep it close to your heart. I love
the pressures. Kind of job. You crazy because your eyes
to the madness in the morning. It's all kind of

(01:32):
then it's Jon be afraid of side be care for Woodstoe.
Not every light is gone and guide you. Yeah, when
I blow up, I'm gonna say a highlight Peter Pan
for real life, be living out my dreams. I'm waking
up pers in a four land whole risk covered up

(01:53):
in ice of Welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
The voices behind bars. I'm your host, Sarah de Armand,
and I have got my friend Zachary Mallory with the
Rise Above Justice Movements and Zachary, welcome to the show.
We're going to be talking about the whole Preson industrial complex,
the death penalty, everything today. So again, Zachary, welcome. Could

(02:15):
you tell everyone about yourself?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely so. I'm Zachary Mallory. I originally grew up
in right outside of Kansas City, Missouri. So obviously I
see a lot of gun violence. There's a lot of
like gang initiations, there's a lot of a number of
things that run through the streets of Kansas City, and

(02:39):
you know, a lot of like sex trafficking, human trafficking.
We do see like quite a bit. But you know,
obviously that's everywhere, right, there's certain parts that are essentially
like worse than others quote unquote worse, but you know,
in all honesty, we know where a lot of it
stems from. And it comes from you know, have growing

(02:59):
up in like broken and backgrounds of broken households. It
comes from poverty, It comes from the lack of you know,
healthcare access, the lack of housing, the lack of exact services,
and you know. So I during the twenty twenty four election,
I started organizing as survivors for Harris because I understood.

(03:21):
I understood the assignment. Now is Harry is necessarily the
most best presidential candidate. Absolutely not. However, it is better
than a forty time or forty five time convicted. God.
You know, we can continue going on that treason, Yeah,

(03:42):
for sure, and we can continue going on and on
about that. But we obviously the election didn't come out
the way that we anticipated, and then knew that we
had to continue going. And so I contacted my co
founders and I was like, hey, are you okay if
we continue going? And you know, it was almost like

(04:03):
instantaneous because I sent it in a group text and
there was four of us, and I said, hey, are
you guys okay if we continue going? And they're like,
oh my god, yes, you know, like let's continue going.
What are we going to call ourselves?

Speaker 1 (04:13):
What are we going to do?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
What's gonna be our focus? I said, So we're gonna
be called the Rise Above Justice Movement. And Sarah, I
don't know if you know this, but the actual Rise
Above Movement is actually a white supremacist group. The reason
that I chose the Rise Above Justice movement was to
rebuttal that against that grip. I didn't know that, So

(04:34):
there is a specific reason behind it. But it's also
because we're rising above the jew like the juvenile the
criminal justice system and fighting for the empowerment of survivors
and to ensure that survivor voices have a seat at
the table, because oftentimes we don't. We don't have that
seat at the table.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
We were talking about the entire prison industrial complex and
something that is close to your heart that is not
talked to about nearly enough. I'm glad you brought up.
It's private prisons and something that I want everyone to
do the assignment for today. Civic Core which pioneered the
private prison movement dot well movement, but I mean they

(05:14):
own like so many of them, but yeah, they pioneered
it and OpenSecrets dot org. I want you to go there,
look at Cours Civic I ink, and you will see
who they've donated to as far as candidates, you know,
are politicians, and so we hold everyone accountable, you know,

(05:36):
no matter who you are, we hold everybody accountable. But
I'm being fair, but most of the people that they
have donated to have been Republicans. Ninety six point eighteen
percent of the recipients have been Republicans. I encourage you
to look this up yourself, and also Core Civic as
you know, just as it the entirety, because they are

(06:01):
truly evil. They own so many private prisons, federal prisons, jails,
detention facilities, you name it. So this is just something.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Incidentally, and not to cut you off, but I do
want to add a kind of like a plug into this.
So that exact group that you were talking about tried
to open an ICE attention center in Levenworth, Kansas, which
is also where a military base is, and happy to
report that it was completely shot down and they removed
their contract.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Oh that's good.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
So as we're talking about that, and yes, you're completely correct,
I've done my research on that group, and yes they're
absolutely freaking horrific. They you know, they cater directly to
the GOP. They do predominantly donate the GOP. There have
been some Democrats that they have donated to, but it's
been very like minuscular amounts. And but they have donated

(06:53):
directly to the GOP candidates, including the President, which they
also funneled money into Project twenty twenty five, you know,
the Heritage Foundation. They absolutely did funneled money directly into
all of that. And like you said, open secrets, I
use that for literally everything. If there's like a new
corporation that's coming to town, I'm like, oh, I wonder

(07:14):
how they you know, how they how they donate, how
do they utilize their funding, how do they do their donating?
And go to open secrets. It literally it's it's literally
an open secret. It's not really much of a secret
whenever it's public information, right, because that's literally the point
of it is to expose these extreme corporations and these
extreme politicians on both sides of the Aisle. I am bipartisan,

(07:38):
but it is really hard to be bipartisan in a
partisan world. Yeah, it's really really difficult. And calling up
the hypocrisy on both sides. I mean, you had ten
Democrats and ten congressional members who voted to centure Representative
Al Green out of this for standing up against the
biggest bully in the White House because you know, he

(08:00):
does not have a mandate to remove Medicaid, to remove
Social Security, to remove food stamps and remove all this
other stuff and these illegal detainings of the ice, Like,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, it's regarding private prisons. And I'm love that you
mentioned that about it didn't work, you know, uh Kansas
about Linage Center, thank goodness, But private prisons. You said,
this is something an issue that is saw he hits
close to home, not literally but personally because I know

(08:39):
it literally does too. But why is that? I'd like
to hear more about that.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
So just thinking about the thinking about the private prison
and thinking about how our country is structured, and thinking
about you know, just who winds up in prison the most. Right,
you have a sex trafficker that does less time than
somebody who has a simple marijuana charge. Oh it's true.

(09:07):
What was that?

Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's true?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah? Yeah, and then you have somebody who goes out
and they commit multiple rapes and the person who is
a person of color. You know, let's just throw out there.
You know, a black man gets picked up by a
local police department or a county or you know, a
federal and they have a marijuana charge or they have
a drug charge, they're going to do more time than

(09:30):
somebody who literally sex traffic people, somebody who rapes someone someone.
So we're holding the wrong people accountable, right, I'm all
about accountability, but a mod pro common sense, And it's
not common sense to arrest somebody and put them in
a private prison where they literally profit off off of

(09:50):
bodies being in their beds essentially, and they profit off
of that, and then also you know, do like this
labor to where they pay them. Oh, we'll give you
like fifth sense if you do this, and blah blah blah.
That's that's idiotic. Making money off of people is kind
of like the for profit healthcare system. Making money off
of people just because their asses in that bed. That's

(10:11):
just disgusting.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Its slavery.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
It's literally the definition of slavery directly, and it's absolutely wrong.
We need to abolish the private prison system. I'm the
same way with like charter schools. I fully believe in
funding public education. Yes, I mean you still have the
exact same issues that happens in public education and a

(10:34):
private in private education and in charter schools, and the
whole voucher scam is literally catering to the top one percent.
And that's literally what the prison industrial complex does. And
that's exactly what private prisons does. Is it profits that
top one percent because you have the warden who's typically
a billionaire and just profiting off of people just being

(10:54):
in their prisons. That's disgusting in itself. And whenever we
talk about this quote unquote waste full spending, why are
we not talking about that wasteful spinning that we pour
into private education, that we pour into private prisons. Whenever
you can actually go to actually help.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
People, you know, it's not like keep telling people.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
I mean, it's literally common sense. It's not that hard
to figure out what is actually happening. And people that
just turn a blind eye to it have never been
through that system, or they just don't give a shit
because they don't know anybody who has been through it.
If they did, they probably would have a different opinion.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
I'm going to well, there's a lot of heartless ask
people out here right now. But all in all, all
that to say I was put on probation for five
and a half years for an assault charge that I
never did right, and I had to go through the
juvenile justice system. I was thirteen years old standing in
a courtroom trying to defend what my actions that I
didn't even fucking do.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
I couldn't even do.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
It, and I had to do community service. I had
to be on probation until I was eighteen years old.
With those fine years of my life, going through a
mental health crisis, going through a drug addiction, going through
you know, struggle with my sexuality and my gender identity,
and being on paper was not the easiest task in
the world. Because, let's face it, I'm a smart ass.
I was a smart ass teenager. I mean, as we

(12:16):
all were. I'm a smart ass almost twenty nine year old.
But you know, all in all, I couldn't really do
anything because any little move that I did, police were
at my door, Police were watching me at school, police
were watching me. Oh, I have no doubt the SRO
and the school, which I'm for getting rid of them too,
because they're literally worthless. They don't really do anything for me.

(12:39):
The SROs, they just look at me like I was
some type of criminal right, Yeah, and my caseworker would
come into the school and you know the school, and
you know, I attempted suicide in the school, and they
call my caseworker before they call my parents.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Oh my gosh, Like really, yeah, And I'm sure that
it still does a lot to you to this day,
that trauma from all that.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, PTSD doesn't. It's not just a switch of a
or flipping a switch to where I can just turn
off those effects and turn off that after the after
effect is what really gets me. And I always tell
people whenever I share my survivor's story that I would
rather take a physical beating than the emotional trauma that
I deal with every single day.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh seriously, Kim.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
And because those wounds will heal, my heart is going
to remember, my mind is going to remember, and I'm
going to remember what somebody said versus what they did.
And that's what that's what sticks the most. And oftentimes,
you know a survivor who literally flees domestic violence or
gun violence or and they wind up in the system

(13:46):
and because they kill their trafficker. You know, look at
look at the case of Centoya Brown for example. You know,
she literally killed her trafficker because that was the only
way that she felt like she would be able to escape.
And she was wrongfully incarcerated for that. Gypsy Rose Blanchard,
you know, which she didn't directly kill her mother, but

(14:07):
she helped, you know what I mean, Like she shared
her story, she shared the truth, and people villainize her
like that's literally the only way that a child that
goes through all of these unnecessary you know things like
it's it's ross.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
And we had a woman on the show too, Dianna
Martin and Georgia Oppetition. Still the lake in my by
on my social media. She killed her abuser, her husband.
She didn't even wasn't even trying to kill him. She
you know, was trying to defend herself. Still that was
her abuser. She was still life in prison without parole.

(14:48):
And this happens all the time.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, no, and it does, and it happens a lot
more than it absolutely should. And oh yeah, yeah, you know,
I'm sure there's a lot more Gypsy Rose Blanchards out there.
I'm sure there's a lot more Centtoya Brown's. I'm sure there's.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
A lot more Deanna Martin's.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, right, And I'm trying to think of some of
the others that.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I'm sure there's a lot more people who were in
your position too.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Oh yeah. And that's part of the reason why I
created the Rise About Justice movement was to connect with
people like you, to connect with people, you know, like
gwyn Leey who is my co founder in Tennessee, you know,
and Mercedes Maloy out in California. And you know, I'm
here in Kansas, and then I have a contact down
in Houston, Texas or in Dallas, Texas. And you know

(15:36):
my original you know, the person I organized with survivors
for Harris, you know, Hadley the ball being in Kentucky.
So you know, we're kind of like all over the place.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Oh they're in Kentucky. Nice, because we talked about earlier
that I'm all butting heads with a federal president Kentucky. Nice.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Okay, yep, yep, And yeah, exactly. And it's just a
wild situation what's going on federally. But let's take a
wind back and let's take a look at the states.
So we see what happens in Texas or you know, well, yeah,
we see what happens in Texas. Oh gosh, And thinking

(16:16):
about that and thinking about marrow Largo being in Florida. Like,
there's so many things going on in the States that
people don't even realize. We have a special election on
April first, you know, Gay be Lamont in Florida Congressional
District one, Josh and I think in Congressional District three
or six. I think it's one of those two. I
could be completely wrong on that, but you know, we

(16:38):
have some really good candidates running in Florida. There's a
really good mayor candidate running in New York City. He's
a socialist. He also just he also just essentially made
history by becoming like a candidate that you know, fundraised
so much that they reached like their their cap of

(17:00):
what they can actually spend. You know, lo Rahm Mindani
literally raised over eight million dollars for a mayor raise.
And that's all from grassroots funding. That's not from a corporation,
that's not from APEC, that's not from you know, anything
like that. That's literally pure people to people like you
and me donating to that campaign, right, you know, like

(17:23):
that that's why, you know, campaign reform and advocating for
the changes in their communities is how we get rid
of these private prisons by getting these elected officials in
that will actually do something instead of just sitting here
breaking in coin right, and it's just.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Speaking of the state prisons. So what they'll do that's
you know, literal slavery here in Alabama. Kivy just takkay.
I know that she'll make your blood boiled just mentioning
her name, I know. But so what she did was,
you know, we in our elections here we ban the
thirteenth minute loophole. You know, it's it makes slavery still legalized.

(18:04):
We voted to remove that part, you know, making slavery legal. Well,
she decided to make a little loophole because of course,
so she made it to wear corporations here like McDonald's
hire more like you know, it's slavery, but I say,
hied loosely inmates all for they don't pay them so

(18:29):
to work, you know all, you know, like cook stuff
like that, and she'll threaten them and say, oh, you
won't get probation if you don't do it, you won't
get probation. And so there's a lossit going on with
her at Steve Marshall, Attorney General, who also makes my
blood boil. I know, people said, isn't this illegal, and Michael,
of course it is, but they don't care.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yep. But exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
But it's I'm not defending them. I'm just saying, it's
not just them that's doing this. It's other states that
are doing this. So it's other state prisons. In fact,
there are other corporations that do this, like Wendy Starbucks,
Joeanne Fabrics, who's going out of business, wamp.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
But sorry, that one actually cracks me up because that's
been going downhill for a very very long time. And
once again, looking at that open secrets, you can literally
see how these corporations are standing. Yep. And you know
we I mean, here's here's a really good example of this.

(19:31):
So Corey Bush is a former congressional member out of
his and I've been friends with Corey on Facebook for
a couple of years or you know, many many years,
and I haven't like directly talked with her, but I
do know what happened in her campaign race. I do
know what happened. I followed them, and it's a very

(19:52):
horrific situation with what happened in her race. No, you
had apak that literally funneled millions of y into a
congressional race. Yeah, and look what's happening in Israel. Look
what's happening. I don't want to get too far into that.
I have a very strong opinion about so do I Yeah,

(20:13):
I mean, genocide is genocide. Let's be real. But also
kind of like taking a look back and just thinking
about Corey is a nurse. She's also an organizer. She
was really prominent during you know, the Michael Brown murder.
You know, that's when I really started learning about her.

(20:34):
And coincidentally, that was actually on my birthday that year.
My birthday is August ninth. Michael Town was murdered on
August ninth, And I think that was one with me. Yeah,
I think that was twenty sixteen, I think, and it
or like twenty may have been twenty fourteen, twenty thirteen,
twenty fourteen, somewhere between twenty thirteen twenty sixteen. The timeline,

(20:57):
I know.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's hard. Let's see it's twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was twenty fourteen. I was
getting ready to graduate high school that following year. And
I graduated high school in twenty fifteen, and predominantly the
majority of my class was all students of color, you know,
and I learned a lot, you know, coming from a
privileged white background. You know, I had food on the table,

(21:23):
I had clothing on my back, I had housing, I
had healthcare, I had everything, and then I realized they
could all be gone in the blink of an eye.
And we still struggle quite a bit, you know, we
still do. We still do struggle a lot. But all

(21:44):
in all, I'm grateful that I went through what I did,
because I don't think I'd be doing the work that
I'm doing now and be effective at it if it
didn't directly mean something to me, right, And it does
mean the world to me that I'm able to share
my story and I'm able to do the work that
I do every single day and give back to the

(22:05):
community that's given so much to me. Right, That's ultimately
what I care the most about. But all in all,
you know, these private prisons and the present industrial complex
and the federal presence, which goes into the next topic,
there's a lot of there's a lot of reform, if

(22:26):
you if we can even do a reform, it's more
like just the abolition and build from the ground up. Yeah,
you know, the way that it's supposed to be create
our own systems, like that's that's how it should be.
Create those systems of care and those safety nets that
actually work for the people and not against the people,
and work for the people and not against the court

(22:48):
or you know, not for the corporations, right, because corporations
are literally I mean, look, they're removing DEI, they're removing
their DEI initiatives, which we know de I was actually
created to help white people. If it actually worked in
the way it was supposed to, it would actually help
every single person. But it's got whitewashed, just like you know,

(23:09):
thinking like Christopher Columbus. Here's a really good example, thinking
about Christopher Columbus being this fantastic person, and I learned
about that in high school, in elementary school, middle school,
and high school. And they come to find out he
was actually a colonizer and he murdered, raped, and pillaged
so many indigenous people, right. You know, My grandmother was
full of what a Native American And one thing that

(23:30):
she always told me was Christopher Columbus wasn't the person
that he said he was. He didn't find shit, he
stole land. So she was very you know, but she
was in tune with it. And my grandfather was a
union organizer, He was a union rep. He was a
committee person for the UAW here in Kansas City. Yeah.

(23:51):
I come from an advocacy background that has taught me
everything that I need to know about what's happening in
this country and how to change it and how to
fix it. But one of the things you just cannot
fix is this justice system. You cannot fix it. There
is no fixing it. There is no reform. It's literally
abolition through and through, exactly. Not fix a system that

(24:15):
does not want to be fixed, especially the people that
are inside of it that don't want to fix that
system exactly.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, you're profiting from.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
It, literally, and they're raking in millions and millions and
billions of dollars literally on slave trade and like sex trade,
and oh my god, it's like a it's it's like
restructing this whole dystopia Hill, I know. And it doesn't
matter what we do, it doesn't matter what candidate we get,
because every single fucking one of them is bought by something.

(24:45):
I mean, look at Chuck Schumer for example. Oh, look
at Chuck Schumer and his comments on the genocide in Israel,
his comments on why he voted to bring you know,
this nasty fucking tax bill and this nasty fucking funding
bill to the floor and why so many of them

(25:08):
voted for it. There was nine Democrats and one independent
that voted to close the cloture, you know, on the
discussion about this funding bill, Like, it's disgusting, It's just
beyond disgusting. How can you sleep at night knowing that
you just took health care from you know, an elderly person. Yeah,

(25:30):
how do you sleep at night knowing that I have
a disabled mom who got her Medicaid cut in Missouri
because they quote unquote claim that they didn't receive her
her address change, which they did because we got a
confirmation number two months before that. They're discovering their tracks
or trying to, but they don't like being exposed. And

(25:50):
that's a lot of a lot of the Democrats issues
and a lot of Republican issues. They don't like being exposed.
Right where you speak out in opposition to one of
those candidates, They're like, oh, are you going to attack
a Democrat? Oh are you going to attack a Republican? Well,
I attack both sides. How about that.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Same here the people getting mad at me, going, oh,
are you checking democrat taking a Republican? Same thing I go,
I'm like, it's called accountability.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
It goes yes, And it's one thing to hold a
candidate or an elected official accountable. It's another thing that
just downright hate them, right, and don't. I don't hate anybody.
I think hate is a very strong word. I'm willing
to work with anybody across the aisle, Green Party, Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, Socialist.

(26:34):
You know, I'm a socialist through and through, so as
my partner, my mom is a Republican. Like things like that,
I'm willing to work with anybody. But she also understands
what's going on, and she's pissed as hell right now
with what's happening federally because she's like, this isn't the
country that I grew up in, right, this isn't the
state that I grew up in. Because you know, she
looks what's happening in Missouri and she sees it and

(26:58):
calling out Missouri and calling out their bullshit. You know,
she does it all the time because it is hypocritical
of them to say here and say we fight for
the people. No you fight for your corporations, you fight
for the NRA, which is one of the most corrupt
quote unquote nonprofit or you know NPO that there probably is. Yeah,

(27:21):
I mean, all in all, I think there is no
reform that we can do. It's literally abolition, burn it down,
and build it from the ground up, because these systems
need to work exactly how we want them to work.
Because as of right now, it's literally killing people, like

(27:42):
literally millions of people every single day all across the world,
the justice systems, you know, especially here in the United States.
And you would think with being the richest country in
the entire world, that we would be able to afford
these things. We can. It's just we can. It's just
being misconstruted. And it looks like we're being a very
quote unquote progressive country and we're not. I mean, we

(28:08):
already set the precedent back fifty plus years whenever overturned
Roe v. Wade, you know, with abortion access and reproductive rights.
And then in Tennessee they banned drag They banned an
art form that is protected under the First Amendment exactly
freedom of the freedom of expression, and freedom of speech.

(28:30):
But freedom is all. Freedom is not free. We know
that right because there's always a cost that comes with it.
And whenever we remove money from politics, that's how we
will truly become a democracy. We have never been in
a democracy. We have a concept of democracy, we've never

(28:52):
been in a direct democracy. We wouldn't know what it's
like to be in a direct democracy because we had
Ronald Reagan who got us stuck and trickle down economics
and it's continuing going. That system is continuing going, and
then we have capitalism that's literally destroying our communities.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
And I want to give a shout out to Corey
Bush because she did drop a bill. Of course they
didn't pass it, but she did try to ban This
is on federal level, but that's where the starting point was.
But it was to ban solitary confinement. And I'm a
big supporter of banning solitary confinement. That is torture, and

(29:34):
so I want to give her a shout out there
because I don't think that's talked about enough either. How
that is torture. I'm all for punishment, but solitary confinement
it is. And I've talked to all people who've been
formally cursory. They have told me. I don't know one
inmate who hasn't been in solitary confinement.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
It's just beyond disgusting. And no, I fully support ending
solitary confinement. I personally do not believe that literally locking
somebody in a room with no food, no dream, nothing,
that's literally torture through it is there. There's nothing humane
about that, this death penalty. And you know, I think

(30:13):
I think I read that Louisiana just executed somebody for
the first time in like many many years, and they did.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Through all the same way Alabama has been doing. It
was through the suffocation. Yep, I'll and the family members
of the victim, and I'll rest the piece of the victim.
You know. I we pay a respects to the victim,
of course, but I'm just saying that family members of
the victim said, no, we don't want this. This isn't

(30:42):
giving us any peace. But the government care course.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Not exactly exactly, because the government is the one that's
doing it. Take a look at Missouri, for example, Missouri
executed a transgender woman, remember that Amber McLachlin, and did

(31:07):
not give her a chance to even explain herself, didn't
give her a fair trial, and they did it to
make her become a statistic exactly. It broke national headlines.
And the only time that we hear about trans people
is when they're murdered. And that is the only time
that we hear anything about a transgender person. They're not

(31:30):
in the media like the way that they should be,
you know, and the representation is definitely not there, right,
And but you have people like Laburne Cox who speaks
out and tells the absolute truth.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
And we need more people like her, you know, y.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
No, we need people exactly like her. We need people
who call out the patriarchy.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
I have a really high respect for Taylor Swift and
the reason for that, you know. I like a lot
of her music. I love what she does with her money,
where she donates to organizations, you know, food pantries all
across the world. Right, that's incredible, seriously, But when I
always say packs the rich, that also does include her.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
It does.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
However, I do like a lot of what she does.
And this is also the same person who's also a
sexual assault survivor. Counters sued somebody for a dollar and
one like that is freaking incredible. I remember that, Oh
my gosh, And you know, just yeah, and then thinking,

(32:39):
you know, kind of going back to like the death penalty.
I really want to hone in on that for a second.
And what it costs more for a lethal injection than
it does for somebody to set in the jail cell.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
It does.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah, it costs way more to sit in an electric chair.
It costs way more to sit in a gas chamber.
It cost way more. Squad right, and fire Squad is
back and it is alive in the United States. And
that is deeply horrific to even think about.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, like when the people when it happened in South Carolina,
the people who watched it were flinching, so and so
I just it's hard to talk about, but like you said,
it's deeply horrific.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, and it I get disgusted every time I think
about it. And it's just one of those Oh God,
I can't I can't even find the words to begin
to explain. I don't know personally anybody who's ever been
on death row. I don't know anybody who's ever been executed.

(33:48):
You know. I've had friends of friends who have, and
watching what they went through, I hope that I never
go through that. But what I can do is I
can listen to their story is and I can amplify
their stories, you know, like you do with this podcast,
and also like what I'm going to do with my podcast.
Shameless plug will be coming in the next couple of weeks,

(34:10):
but it's going to be really deep and it's going
to be really impactful because the people that have reached
out that want to be a part of it. You know,
these are people I wouldn't normally connect with. If I
wouldn't have started doing my organizing, I never would have
connected with the people that I've connected with, including you.
You know, I'm just somebody who is here in the

(34:32):
state of Kansas who has a passion and you know,
almost seventy thousand followers on an Instagram profile, like building
that ground, building that account from the ground up has
been quite the experience. You know. We started in August
of last year, and not even a full year around,
it's already a seven almost seventy thousand followers. We're literally

(34:52):
one hundreds away of seventy thousand followers. Because it become
a platform for people who don't have a voice, right
for people who are voiceless, and you know, for very
valid reasons because they're either not allowed to speak, or
if they speak, they're told that they're not believed exactly,

(35:13):
and it's it's just disgusting to even think about. It's
just disgusting.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
M hm. And you're like another thing with the death penalty,
you know, like I advocate for some people for who
are on death row. And also on this podcast, a
friend of mine, doctor Chris brown is uh was on
the podcast and his father was executed here in Alabama,

(35:40):
and so I interviewed him about that whole experience and
why he's a an advocate against the death penalty and uh,
like the how hard he works. It was a very
powerful interview. And so yeah, by elevating that interview and

(36:01):
just you know, like what it was like growing up
with his dad on death row, and it's just being
in that position of growing up with your parental death rone.
Don't get me wrong, his dad was a good dad.
So I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying I would
never wish that experience, especially having your own parent executed.

(36:22):
I would never wish that on anyone.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Absolutely, absolutely, That's a pain that I don't think anybody
would ever wish on their worst enemy. No, No, And
I think that's something that we need to highlight more
oftentimes than not because the after effect, the grueling answers
that go oftentimes unanswered, or you know, the questions that

(36:45):
oftentimes go unanswered, those questions are just there lingering, and oftentimes,
you know, we don't we truly never see justice, because
justice is whenever somebody is alive, to see their perpetrator
or the person not wort them go down. But if
if they're being buried, is that really justice? No, that's

(37:05):
more closure than justice. Justice is literally seeing your person
who did this to you be held accountable, right Like
that's and kind of like the death penalty that's not
justice for anybody now.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
And doesn't do anything for the murder right. There's thirty
years of research that has gone into this. It has
not lowered the murder right. In fact, in the states
where it's abolished, the murder right has gone down where
the where it's been abolished completely. And I have done
research upon research upon this. I will link it in
the description. And I just want to say that even

(37:44):
if like I would still be against the death penalty ethically, morally,
but if it did lower the murder right, again, I
would still be against it, but I would sit here
and tell you, well, facts are facts. But no, it
doesn't do anything for the murder right.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Exactly. No. I think it just it just perpetrates more
violence it does. It perpetrates more issues than what we
know about.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
You know, well when it comes to you know, when
people say what about the victims, Well, actually I care
very much about the victims. I wrote to Doug Jones
when he was our senator, and I asked about, you know,
getting lost pass to help the people who've been domestically abused,
and he was focused on getting the boyfriend loophole closed.

(38:34):
And I'm not a Biden fan, want to make that clear.
To his credit, he did try to get that closed.
Republicans blocked it.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah. No, there's a lot that Biden did during his
four years that really really really struck a chord with
me in a very positive way. Obviously there was some
very negative things, but there was some very positive things.
And also, like you know, whenever Kamala Harris was the VP,

(39:04):
you know, creating the very first Office of Gun Violence
Prevention was a monumental part of our country, right, and
that was a very you know, it was led by
some incredible human beings who fought against the NRA. And
obviously we know literally on day one that office was eliminated. Yes,

(39:25):
that was the very first time in our country's history
that we ever saw that. And creating those offices is
more than just creating an office that's giving a platform
to people who don't have a platform. You know, there
needs to be an office of violence in every single state.
Oh absolutely, office of violence prevention.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
And see instead of going money for going for the
death penalty, which like that's on our tax dollars, you know,
that could go to like what you said, and that
could be going to so much for violence prevention programs,
for mental health care yep.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yep, or even you know, for some reason, the state
of Kansas thinks that they cannot pass Medicaid expansion because
they can't afford it. But you but here's the thing.
But you can afford vouchers, and you can afford defunding
public education.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's there's that's the lie they're staying here in Alabama.
And I'm like, no, you can afford it. I mean.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Like there's literally there's literally federal dollars that the State
of Kansas sent back because they couldn't find anything to
do with it, like yep, And keep in mind that's
also with a democratic governor and a GOP controlled House
and Senate. That's what the democratic governor. Don't get me wrong.
I love Governor Kelly through and through. She's incredible. She's

(40:48):
done a lot of fantastic work. She's an LGBTQ ally,
she's a gun sense candidate, you know, a gun sence governor.
She's also the chair of the Democratic Governors Association or
whatever it is like nationally, which Governor Walls was a
part of or you know, well, I think he still
is a part of it, but he was like the
chair of the vice chair. I am a big Governor

(41:10):
Walls band. I am. I will tell you that until
I tremble in the face. I adornre that man beyond
belief because he fights for people and he loves everybody.
He's just goofy. I like him too, but all in all,
and I was so excited whenever I saw that she
chose Governor Walls to be her VP, and I was like,

(41:31):
this is incredible. You know, he is funny, he's very personable,
and he tells people exactly how it is and he
tells people to mind your own damn business, because that's
all it is. That's all it really takes, is just
minding your own damn business, minding your own damn uterus,
and stay out of other people's.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
I mean, I loved it what he was saying, you know,
about planting parenthood. He's like, you know, Nancy Pelosi told
us to tone it down, Republicans to tourn it down,
but we stood by planting parenthood and we won. I'm like, oh, man,
after my.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Own heart exactly, and that's how you do it. I mean,
he literally grew up in a very rural area in Nebraska.
And he also is a proponent for ending the death penalty.
I don't know if you knew that, but he is
a proponent for ending the death penalty. He does support it.
I'm pretty sure, you know, fact check me on that.

(42:24):
Don't add that into this podcast episode with fact check
me on that, because I'm pretty sure. I don't think
he ever like came directly outright. But I would not
be surprised if ten as a proponent. I would not
be surprised because he's very anti violence. You know, he's
been anti gun violence. He's very anti you know, anti everything,

(42:45):
and he wants to shatter the systems because that's exactly
how you do it. He wants to shake shit up.
He grew up in a rural area Nebraska, and he
helped flip the state of Minnesota to majority Democratic controlled
and that no other governor has been able to do that.
And now they're passing bills that are incredible left and right,

(43:06):
and the bad bills that are introduced mainly by the
GOP are being squashed. And you know, he gave a
free universal meals to every single student. You know, like
it's just things like that. That's all violence prevention that
prevents people from going further into his system that nobody
ever wants to be a part of, and belonging to

(43:28):
a community that nobody ever wants to belong to. Did
I ever want to Did I ever want to be
a part of the survivor community.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
But I'm glad i am because I'm connective with people
who understand and people who just.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Get it exactly. And I'll so, Governor Waalt says. When
asked if he's support the diffalty, he said, too many
innocent people have been convicted.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
And he's right. One out of every eight people are
wrongfully executed.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Correct correct. See that's what That's what I'm talking about.
He understands, he gets, he does get it, he does listen,
he does pay attention, and if he sucks up, he
will tell you he fucked up and he will correct it.
That's called accountability. Yes, that's what we want to see
more people do. Whenever we know it's like you voted

(44:15):
on a horrific bill. Yeah, people are gonna be mad
at you. Just don't do it again. Whatever that bill
comes up, or whenever something similar comes up, vote against it.
It's not that damn.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Hard exactly exactly. I have more respect for you when
you ad met I missed up. I'm not gonna do
it again.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Then just blatantly continue to do it over and over
and over again and established in the back even further.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, I mean, go on, what are you talking about.
I didn't do that. That never happened.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Your vote is literally public. We can see that. We
can not to mention the fact you can remove a
social media post, but people have already screenshoted it. Screenshots
last forever, yeah, I mean, and they're also they're also dated,
Like we can see that and ah God.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
But also about federal prisons. Okay, so I mentioned Kentucky earlier,
so I don't want to say too much because I
don't want anyone getting into trouble like what happened before.
But so what I'm going to touch on though, is
all prisons are bad, period, all detention centers, jails, every
single one of them. So I'm not acting like any

(45:25):
of them are good. This one in particular, USP McCreery.
This was the first time, really I when I started advocating,
this is when I'm I could say, my privileged bubble
was burst. And that's when I started waking up. And
so I the one that I'm advocating for is incarcerat

(45:48):
that prison. That's when he and other inmates and also
their loved ones were telling me about what's happening there.
So I spoke out all one of the people I'm
advocating for there was thrown into solitary confine meant for
two months. So that was also my first in depth
look into solitary confinement. And and so for years we

(46:09):
have been asking Rand Paul for help and it's gone ignored,
and so we're still reaching out. We're also reaching out
to the media in Kentucky as well. And I mean,
like you said, I want to work with everybody, anyone,
and so I want to work with him. If he's
willing to work with us, just please stop ignoring us.

(46:31):
But with the problems there, it's but say, it's horrific.
Like I was talking to the organization FAM when I
told them, she literally gasped, so all. But when it
comes to but yeah, when I spoke out, they won't
allow me at that prison to visit the person I'm

(46:52):
advocating for, even as an ordained minister and legally speaking
as a member of the clergy, they're not allowed to
do that. But they don't care. So so yeah, and
that's just the thing. I know, you know, when all
people point out that's illegal, I'm like, I know, but
do you think they care?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Oh, one hundred percent?

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Like, Oh, there's a person that I know right now
I'm advocating for, is wrongly convicted. He's uh currently held
in jail. It's been thirty one months now, no bail,
no trial date. And someone asked me, and I know
someone now he's been he's out, thank god, Matthew Baker.
He was in jail for seventy years, no trial date.

(47:36):
Before there was a trial date. He all, there was
a trial date. My husband I attended. He's out of prison,
you know, all he was facing the death penalty wrongfully,
so he was innocent but fortunately found not guilty. But
when this person was asking me, why are they doing this,
you know, holding him without bail, without trial date, I

(47:57):
told him because they can. I've seen. Because they can.
They know they can get away.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
With it exactly exactly. They know, they know exactly what
they're doing, and they're doing it intentionally. They are literally
doing it intentionally.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
And I can't. I know, I keep say this like
I'm a robot, but I'm going to keep saying this.
It's happening all the time, every day, ol. And it's
and what it's like with state tax dollars that happens,
you know, all according to the state, But federal tax
dollars were all paying for this and something else I

(48:36):
need to get byen credit for with the federal death row.
We were begging him commute those sentences. He did commute
thirty seven out of forty. Should have been all, but
thirty seven out of forty. That is monumental. No one's
ever commuted that many sentences, and that's a big step
forward to all ending capital punishment. So that that was

(48:56):
a big deal and so all like I said, that
would oh very oh not only big message, but no
one's ever done something like that before. So we got
the president to listen to us. So I want everyone
to remember we got the president to listen to us.
So I just don't want people to underestimate the power
of their voice.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Correct, correct, whenever it's like that anyway, let's put it
that way, because we also know what Donald Trump is
doing on the federal level is obviously highly illegal. Oh yeah,
and we know that. I love whenever people like Joe
Biden use his authority. He was like, you know what,

(49:39):
we lost the election, but I'm going to commute. I'm
going to commute these sentences to where thirty seven out
of forty people on federal death row no longer have
to face it. And then you know Trump coming in
and saying, well, those commutations were illegal, and he told

(50:00):
me to go to hell. But you're okay with the
January six rioters that literally broke into our nation's capital.
You're okay with that. That's almost everything we need to know,
as if we didn't already know, that tells us everything
we need to know. I can, I can pop off
on that until.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Oh same year. I've my poor husband, I've been popping
off on.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
That for years because it's just, uh, it's just disgusting.
But yet we have a problem with the drag queen
reading a book to a child.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I know. I was talking to one of my friends
who I'm also having the Kate four who's romplely Carcial writed,
and I was talking to him about that, and he
agreed with me, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
It's fucking wild. You're okay with commuting these sentences of
these January six rioters, which, by the way, majority of
them already back behind bars. Yes, I want to say majority,
but there's like a very high handful that are already
behind bars yet again, literally within twenty four hours of

(51:01):
being released. What does that tell us everything? Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
And people keep saying that for the Constitution. They keep
saying that, but you know, only when it applies to them,
of course, and only with the second minute, which by
the way, I support the Second Amendment. I want gun safety.
But still again it's when it applies to them. Only
all you know. I've been studying the Constitution and it again,

(51:29):
this is not a thing I could pop off about
for hours. You know, it's just when it comes to constitution,
unless it applies to them. What constitution, don't care, don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Where we exactly. We claim that we are a quote
unquote pro life nation. But what exactly is pro life
about children being shot in school? What exactly is pro
life about walking out in your neighborhood and getting shot
and killed just for simply being queer, or being black,
or being whatever, whoever? What exactly is pro life about that?

(52:03):
If we were truly a pro life nation, those Sandy
Hook children would have graduated from high school and they
would have went to college last year. We are not
a pro life nation or pro forced birth, because once
that child is born, we don't give a goddamn what
happens to it exactly, And we keep hearing, oh, well,
it's the part of God's plan. Why would God put
us all here to be taken right back out at
the hands of a perpetrator, at the hands of violence,

(52:25):
at the hands of somebody who should not have any hand,
being on a firearm. I do support the Second Amendment.
My grandfather was a gun owner. My grandfather was also
a He was an Air Force veteran, but like I said,
also a union organizer. But he always locked his guns up.
They were always locked and he knew that he would

(52:45):
have grandchildren one day, so he hit him in a
very specific place that only him and my grandmother knew
where they were. But they knew right where they were
in the case that they needed him, They know exactly
where to go to. But they were always locked up.
They always had a gunlock on them. Like I said,
I do support the Second Amendment. However, the Second Amendment
also states, so it's supposed to be a well regulated militia.
We have a well regulated militia which is called the

(53:07):
National Guard in each one of our states. That's called
the well regulated militia because they are the only ones
that should have an Ar fifteen or an AK forty seven.
You know. I mean a lot of these hunters state that, well,
I need an Mayar fifteen because I'm going to hunt deer.
Do you not realize that those bullets explode? And if

(53:30):
you need an Mayar fifteen to hunt, you're just allowsy
ass shot exactly, And that's exactly what I stole that
from Tim Walls because that's exactly what he said. But
he's right because he stated that, you know, yes, I
do support the Second Amendment. But while I support the
Second Amendment, I also support common sense gun laws like

(53:51):
red flag laws. They're a perpetrator that was convicted of
domestic violence or gun violence or murder or whatever should
not have access to a fire.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I've talked about this in my social media, talked about
that exact same.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Thing exactly, because that is just beyond horrific, and you're
literally perpetrating violence upon violence upon violence, and it creates
this cycle that a lot of people are not able
to break because the fear of retaliation, because of healthcare,
because of housing, because of discrimination. Whenever we it's a
common fact that whenever we address the root causes, we

(54:24):
will see a lot of these numbers drop. Whenever you
address housing, whenever you addressed Medicare for All or universal
healthcare and Medicaid expansion, whatever form you support, whenever you
support giving people housing and you know, protect their food stands,
protect their SSI, protect their disabilities. I mean, I just
saw that the Department of I think Justice remove like

(54:48):
eleven guidelines off the ADA Like that's just that's just
fucking horrific. You're literally saying that. I don't know if
you saw it, but we post on our Instagram I
Share I did like the whole remix thing with like
pen America to where it shows like two hundred and
fifty plus words that were quote unquote banned by the

(55:11):
Trump administration. My last thing that I want to touch on.
I'm hungry as hell, so I'm going to go back
in and need But one of the things that I
wanted to touch on was you can ban a word,
but you can't ban the person behind that word.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
We can ban queer, but you can't erase a queer person.
It's not going to happen. You can ban the word women,
but you're not going to raise women. Women are going
to get louder. Non Binary people are going to get louder.
Trans people are going to get louder because all you're
doing is literally banning a word that's already been protected.
It's literally in Webster's dictionary, it's in the encyclopedia. You're

(55:47):
not going to remove a word. You can't ban anything,
And whenever you say that you support the US Constitution,
you need to support the US Constitution and uphold it,
not go against it.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Right, and we want you to join us. You know,
of course, you know, please follow this podcast, will what
we do here. But also, Zachary, how can we follow
in support Rise Above All against Justice movement? Uh, I'm
sorry my words. So take it from here. How can
we support what you're doing?

Speaker 3 (56:20):
So we're on Instagram, We're on threads, We're on Blue Sky.
It's just Rise Above Justice Movement. We have a website,
Rise Above Justice Movement dot com. It's a work in progress.
We collaborate with content creators. We collaborate with podcasts. I
have another podcast interview with a true crime nice podcast.

(56:40):
Super excited about it. I grew up on true crime
my grandmother. I would walk into the house high Grandma,
She's I shut the fuck up. I'm watching my true
crime show.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
No same here.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
I grew up on it so and I've just really
adapted to it. Which I'm just really enthralled by learning
about the justice or the the injustice system, because we
know that we know that you're proven guilty until you're
proven innocent. We know that's exactly my mom came up with,
or didn't come up with that. But that's what my
mom agrees. Now she understands it because you know, yeah, anyway,

(57:13):
but yeah, we're on social media. We have our website.
We collaborate with content creators, We collaborate with movers and
shakers and survivors and other organizations. We have a lot
of collaborations coming up. We have a lot of actions,
We have a lot of actions coming up. We have
a lot of just a lot of ways for people
to get really involved. We're doing some restructuring of our

(57:37):
social media, restructuring of ourselves while also taking care of
ourselves doing some more like mindfulness things and yeah, so
we're just.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Can we check in on each other saying hey, how's
her by doing?

Speaker 3 (57:50):
You know, Yeah, we have a survivor safe space that's
non political. If it is political, it's like very very
seldom is very and I shoot it down. We're like
click because that's not what that space was created for.
As space was created to get people a venting platform,
and you know it's encrypted, nobody can see it. Like yeah,

(58:10):
so we're gonna continue organizing, We're gonna continue pushing back
because if we don't, who's going to exactly.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
And I'm excited for what the future holds up for
this movement. And I'm gonna link everything and the description
and everyone yo, keep spreading that word, Joe me.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Afraid of inside the care Foodstone, not every light is
gone and cart you baby, let a very nice big
keep it close to your heart, Oh love. The fresh
is kinda shave you crazy because you right to the
man in the morning. It's all kind event. It's show

(58:51):
me afraid of side becare Foodstone not evy.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
And that's a wrap for today.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
Thank you so much for doing. If you haven't already,
please click that follow button so you can get updates
for new episodes and if you'd like to get more
updates about the people we've not only featured on this podcast,
but also updates about other cases as well as other
ways to fight against this injustice system, please follow me
on social media Instagram, TikTok, and blue Sky under the

(59:22):
same user name.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
It's sair only. It s s A R A h
O N l y.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
It's sair only. I also have my own five OHO
one C three nonprofit, Voiceless behind Bars. That's Voiceless behind
bars dot org.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
And while I.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Run and own that nonprofit, this podcast, while it has
the same name, because we stand for the same thing,
against rompul convictions and we stand against this injustice system.
This podcast is one and owned by the wonderful Prison Audio,
so one be transparent about that. So again, thank you

(01:00:00):
for tuning in and let's continue to make change happen
together