WUH: Cobweb (2023)

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Wake Up Heavy is a weirding Waymedia podcast. Welcome to Wake Up Heavy,
the world's greatest horror movie podcast.On this episode, my weird dad

(00:24):
and his friends will be talking aboutIt's okay, it was just a battery.

(00:49):
I heard it again. No morenightmares tonight, great champ day.
This is getting ridiculous. This isan old house. There's bound to be
bumps in the night. Peter drewthis. Yes, is he all right?

(01:15):
Peter has an overactive imagination. Nomore nightmares? That's right? You
know. I wish I had someoneI could talk to about the things that
were happening in my house. Mom, Mom, Peter. Sometimes you have

(01:55):
to make hard decisions to protect yourfamily. What is that the banging?
You don't hear anything, Peter,You have a beautiful imagination. It's going

(02:24):
to get you into trouble one day. Hello and welcome to Wake Up Heavy.
This is Mark Beagley, your host, and joining me once again is
mister Chris stashw I'm the thing thatcomes for your kids when you're not paying

(02:45):
attention. Oh spooky yeah. OrI'm gonna have to throw some effects on
that disgusting double on Tendra, MaybeI oh yeah, man, I have
to cut that out. Today weare talking about possibly two movies, depending
on how long we go, butthe original intent was to talk about twenty

(03:07):
twenty threes. Cobweb directed by SamuelI'm assuming it's bow Dan like Rodans and
Seeds French, or Bowden if he'snot, and written by Chris Thomas Devlin,
well renowned for his twenty twenty twoscript for the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

(03:28):
which we all love. That's onNetflix and you can go watch.
Did we do an episode? Iwas just going to ask you that I
think you ended up. Did youend up doing it with I did with
Andy? I think so. Yeah, Yeah, I couldn't make that one
for some reason. It's probably becauseI didn't like it. Yeah, what
a shame, you know what.I will say that Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie,
all the sally hardest the stuff aside, it's fine, it is fine.

(03:54):
That scene on the bus is prettygood. But that scene on the
bus literally just it makes every characterare stupid for like five minutes. Like
that's I know, but like alevel of stupid that's really even hard to
get behind. So, speaking ofstupid characters, Cobweb Cobweb stars Lizzie Kaplan,
one of my favorites, Anthony starCleopatrick Coleman, and I'm forgetting the

(04:18):
little boy's name. Woody Norman asPeter and Luke Busey as the bully.
They cannot not look like one another, right because I saw his name in
the credits and then towards the endof the movie, I was like,
if that's not the busy kid,I don't know who it is, Like,
it took me a while to realizeit, but he's got the teeth.

(04:38):
He's got the busy teeth. It'sthe Gary Busey kid. Though,
which is the crazy thing? That'snot Jake Busey's son. That's Gary Busey's
son, I know. Which isthe fucking insane part. Gary Busey had
a son that's like ten. Yeah, Wow, couldn't find his a John
I am dB. But they're supposedto be eight or nine because wood he

(05:00):
is described as an eight year oldkid, or he says he's eight in
the movie. Of course he's probablyolder in real life, but I'm sure
not much older than ten. Soanyway, yeah, kind of stunning.
Yeah, this is a little bitoff book for me because I don't do
brand new movies all that often.But something caught my attention with this one

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back when I saw the trailer andthe hubbub. But a lot of people
were perplexed by the release date ofthis movie. It came out the weekend
of Barbenheimer, which didn't do thismovie any service at all. Could only
end one way, right, Andit's very Halloween centric, which is weird.

(05:46):
So you're four months out from Halloween, still in July, and lots
of pumpkin imagery. Yeah, lotsof pumpkins, lots of talk about Halloween.
The movie opens with one week forHalloween as a title card and odd
odd choice, which had a lotof people have brought up already. Who
knows. I don't know anything reallyabout release dates. I know they can

(06:11):
change. This was to maybe notcompete with bigger horror movies in the fall.
I guess are there are there bigmovies? I guess there's like one
big horror movie coming out this fall? Is that it? Is it?
The fucking Exorcist movie? Yeah?I don't even William Friedkin wasn't interested in
seeing it, apparently, So theDracula movie came out earlier as well,

(06:35):
So you know, I don't knowthe last voyage of the Demiter. Did
you see that one? Not yet? I planned to check it out because
I like that guy's other movies.Horror movies just like came out this year,
and I didn't see any of them, is what it felt like,
like, I don't know. Likelast year, I felt like I was
a little bit more connected with whatwas coming out, and this year because
of most things now just going backto theaters as opposed to on streaming and

(07:00):
in theaters, I was not goingto go see this movie in theaters,
let's just put it in that way. And I don't even know if it
was showing near me. Frankly,I mean at the time when Barbie and
Oppenheimer came out, like, whothe fuck's going to go see this?
Not commenting on the quality of themovie immediately, just those two movies were
big enough draws that this was nevergoing to get more than like a sparse

(07:20):
amount of people maybe wandering in orthe people who had, I guess heard
of it. Look, I'm notconnected to this, so correct me.
Let me know, clue me in. The last thing I'm connected to is
horror. Twitter so horror Twitter andthis movie. The relationship between them was
amicable. If I saw mostly positivecomments coming out, most people decrying the

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release time, like this would havedone Gangbusters and late September, maybe even
late August early October, because ithas that very halloweeny feel, tons of
pumpkins, pumpkin patch and the family'sbackyard, a million pumpkins in the classroom
that he's in, but lots ofHalloween imagery. Who's to say how much

(08:09):
better it would have done? Then, Most of what I saw was positive.
There were a few naysayers, andI am like, you, I
haven't really been keeping up. Thereason we're doing this is because I've wanted
to do something new. We've talkedabout that, oh some you know,
a new horror thing. Let's doit. And when I saw the trailer,
I was like, Okay, I'mgoing to keep this sort of in

(08:31):
the back of my head. Andthen I saw that Mike and Jay on
Red Letter Media did their little spotlightepisode on it, and I was like,
Okay, they do this on newstuff that they like, and so
I started watching it, and theydon't usually do spoilers on that show.
It because the movies they're talking aboutare new, but they started to get

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into spoiler territory, and I thought, I'm going to shut it off,
now watch the movie and then comeback to this. But what intrigued me
was one thing that Jay said,and that was he compared it to the
movie Parents, which I don't knowif you've ever seen, directed by Bob
Balaban, with Randy Quaid and OhGosh, who plays his wife. It's

(09:15):
a late eighties, eighty nine actuallymovie that I think I saw, probably
first on video. I don't thinkI saw this in the theater. So
it's Randy Quaid and Mary Beth Hurtand it takes place in the fifties and
this little kid suspects his parents ofbeing cannibals because they're really weird, and

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he's this really introverted, weird kid, and Sandy Dennis plays I think a
school counselor something that tries to helpthem. So there are some very loose
connections to Cobweb with that movie.It sounds like something I'd rather watch than
this. It might have to becomean episode because it's a pretty fucking great

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movie. It's pitch black comedy.It's pretty amazing. I watched it like
five or so years ago and hadn'tseen it in a very long time.
And when I was watching, Iwas like, oh yeah, I used
to rent this or catch it oncable whatever all the time and really liked
it. Here's the thing, Sojust the way you're describing that movie,

(10:18):
and look, I like the redletter media guys. I think the red
letter media guys fall into a campof this is not a derision thing.
But you know what I'm going tosay, middle aged white dudes having opinions
about movies. There are plenty ofthose out there. Red letter media,
in my opinion, aren't the bestvideo version of that, because they tend
to stray away or at least stayaway from getting embroiled and not controversies,

(10:43):
but being you know, not woke, but getting into that aspect of it.
They tend to stay away from that, and they are still funny.
The thing that I appreciate about themis the same thing that you do,
which is they tend to bring upthings that are better than what they're talking
about, which isn't good and abad thing. I mean, we sometimes
do that on your show, Youdo that on my show. I could
do it. I know Mike doesit on his show, and then it

(11:03):
just makes me want to watch thatother thing and not talk about the thing
that we're talking about, you know, having even not seen parents, but
it has Randy Quaid in it.I have no issue with any of the
actors in this movie. I thinkthe last time Lizzie Kaplan was in something
was when we talked about fucking cloverField. Yeah, ninety nine percent sure.
I am not someone who has seenthe Boys, at least not enough

(11:26):
to have an opinion on it.So Anthony Starr, I just know him
from memes and gifts on the internetof being like a white supremacist superhero.
Right. This movie has a reallyweird, problematic story beat that feels like
it really couldn't be addressed any otherway than just YadA yachting in this movie,

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but in a black comedy, itfeels like it would be mined for
a lot of interesting commentary, whichis, an eight year old kid kills
his fucking parents. In this movie, he kills his parents and movie just
goes YadA YadA. It's mind boggling. And I know that in the climax
of the movie, they try tolike put a pin in it and like

(12:07):
maybe like put a button on it, and they bring it up, and
it's like the fact that you bringit up and don't address it in a
satisfying way almost would make me feellike you should just not have brought it
up at all and just gloss overthe fact, because this movie should have
been more in the direction of ablack comedy and less a like serious haunted
house movie, because this is ahaunted house movie, and that's why it

(12:30):
should have been released in October.Ultimately, it is a haunted house movie
that becomes kind of a monster movieat the end, but it is a
haunted house movie for the first hourand twenty or hour in ten minutes.
Really, the point that he wasmaking about the comparison to Parents was how
this movie is told from the perspectiveof this eight year old boy, and

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the world that he lives in isreally colored. That the dimensions of the
house are way off. It's kindof like in which they also mentioned Malignant,
You know how that house is giganticon the inside, And I wanted
this to be that maybe is alsothe problem. It kind of is in

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a way, it treads that linea little bit like Malignant, where something's
off. This house is way toobig on the inside. That staircase that
looks like it's going fifty feet up. I like those movies that employ a
child's perspective, like in Toto thewhole thing. You're getting his view of

(13:39):
his parents. A lot of times, kids, depending on how they're brought
up, view their parents as weirdand off and strange. He doesn't appear
to have any friends. He basicallysays as much to his teacher played by
Cleopatrick Coleman, this divine, whydon't you want to go out to recess?
Don't you want to play with yourfriends? And he's kind of like,

(14:01):
don't have any what she doesn't say, but she gets from his blank
stare. And so sometimes when yougo to other kids' houses and you see
how normal their parents are, andyou're like, oh shit, my parents
are fucking weird. He just thinkshis parents are weird because they're weird.

(14:22):
I gravitate towards those movies that existsin the world of a child. Like
Phantasm feels like it was written bya thirteen year old. You know,
the lead is a thirteen year old. It's got this weird, dreamlike quality.
To it. There's this Mexican filmcalled Poison for the Fairies that's all
from this girl's perspective, and she'scrazy. You get everything from that viewpoint.

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With's some other ones they reflecting skin. I don't know if you've ever
seen that kid about this age.I think he's eight going on nine,
so almost the exact same age asPeter in this and that world that he's
in, the world that we seeis basically how he views it. There's
another one called Lama, a Child'sTale the Supernatural that has that weird quality

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of like you're old enough to getmost stuff, but you're not getting everything,
and so that's what kind of workedfor me in this one, like
I can sort of excuse some ofthe stuff that happens because he is an
eight year old boy and doesn't knowabout much of the world outside of his
house. It's kind of like kidsthat get home schooled with the ultra religious

(15:33):
parents. They get out in theworld at some point in their twenties and
they're like, well, what thefuck is all this? Yeah. Yeah.
There's a couple more movies that cameout recently that are like these,
like from the perspective of a child, what's the one. It's a remake,
It's got Naomi Harris in it,and she's like her face is wrapped
up the whole time. Goodnight Mommy, Naomi Watts, Naomi Watts, Naomi

(15:54):
Watts. Yeah. Yeah. Andthen there's also the movie with the fucking
Andre Smushietti movie, who's apparently goesby Andress Muccietti, not Andy Muccietti anymore.
Unbeknownst to me, I just watchedit actually with my daughter Mama.
That was his first movie, actuallya good movie, not like those IT

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movies. And then the fucking FlashMovie that came out earlier this year,
which if you haven't seen that Flashmovie, you should go watch it for
the CGI alone and go this iswhat counts for CGI in twenty twenty three.
I'm with you. I like these. I mean, I guess you
could even make a point that TheHouse with the Clock in the Walls is
another one of those movies scary stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(16:37):
I mean they're teenagers, but yeahyeah, some of those movies that
we've mentioned do a better job oftelling that story of a kid who is
there's a goosebumps episode several Goosebumps episodesabout this exact thing, like your parents
may not be your parents anymore,or they're hiding something, or they're up

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to no good. The problem withthis is this movie for me is when
the reveal happens, is the momentyou're either on board with the movie or
where you go eat. That's whatthis is. I wasn't firmly in either
camp, but by the time themovie got to the climax, which is
handled pretty poorly in a lot ofthe final scene of the movie or the

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final kind of monologue over the montage, it all fell apart. For me,
what this movie is talking about isnot spoilers, a spider, child
in the walls. It's about generationaltrauma and how does one deal with generational
trauma and what does the generational traumaimprint on you? And how are you
imprinting it on people in your life, and how are you handling it?

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Because ultimately it's about two parents wholocked an ugly child in the basement and
then in the walls. It's justlike that episode of The Simpsons where Bart
has a con joined twin that literallylives in the attic and it eats spiders
and stuff. It's that I kindof wish it had been more than that,
because if that's all this is,the setup feels better than the punchline.

(18:07):
It gets too And that's the sadthing about this movie, frankly,
is the moment of inflection when thedoor opens to the wall. That moment
really fell flat for me because theykept doing the whole we're not going to
show you the monster, and atsome point I was like, this movie
has five minutes left, so you'renot showing us the monster now because it
doesn't look good. Is that whatthis is? That's part of it,
I feel I feel like part ofit is, like it doesn't look great

(18:30):
either. But I just think Iwas disappointed by the last twenty minutes of
this movie, but I enjoyed thefirst hour and ten. Thankfully it's only
an hour and a half too,which I really appreciate. By the way,
an hour and a half movie likeeighty eight minutes. Jesus give me
more of these eighty eight minute movies. I'm good, I got I got
things I gotta do today, folks, you know, like eighty five probably

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you know if you cut out thecredit right. That was one of the
more negative things that I saw wasgreat. First two acts, third act
shits the bed. That's indie horror, right, like welcome to indie horror
movies. And that's the thing.That's why I haven't done anything because looking
for these new movies to do anepisode on, and I'm like, it's

(19:15):
not worth it because the ending justPeter's out. This one, I watched
it twice, so I wanted topreview it at least to make sure,
Okay, is there any point ineven doing this. I had more of
the feeling that you had, butI missed some stuff. The fans were
all going in the house, andI didn't have the subtitles on, so
I missed a lot of the girl'sdialogue. In the Wall. What happens

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is Peter's this lonely child that liveswith his weird parents here scratching on his
wall one night and get spooked,taps on the wall, it taps back,
So we have that back and forthfor a while where he's telling his
parents, you know, there's thingin the walls, as typically happens,
they pooh pooh it, and thenDad comes up with a solution that sort

(20:07):
of makes sense. Oh there's rats, So let's go get the rat poison
Chekhov's rat poison Boy. Then thething in the wall starts talking to Peter
and tells this story, and weget this throughout the rest of the what
second act of the film, wherepretty much Sarah explains that she is peter

(20:32):
sister. Their parents locked her inthe basement for a while, then built
a cage for her, and thenhow she's living behind the wall of their
bedroom, behind this grandfather clock.So I missed a lot of that dialogue.
I didn't catch the clock thing untilI watched it the second time with
my daughter. I was like,oh, okay, now I get why

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he's moving the clock and some ofthe other bits of dialogue that revolve around
the missing girl. There's this storythat his parents or his dad tells Peter
to explain why he can't go trickor treating because a girl went missing before
he was born from their neighborhood.It comes out that Sarah says, oh,

(21:15):
that was mom and dad, becauseshe tried to help me. So
we've got this sweet little voice comingout of the wall, and of course
he feels badly for her and wantsto help, and that kind of leads
us to what you have already mentionedfor the finale of the movie. So
I'm going along with this, like, oh, okay, yeah, his
parents are fucked up, man.I mean, if nothing else, they've

(21:38):
locked this child in their walls.Right, you can understand it's a weird
morality that this movie is playing at, right, because like, are the
parents bad? Well, that's thething, that's the question at the end,
Right, I feel like this movieisn't really interested in answering that question.
Though in the other movie we mighttalk about the Boogeyman. It seems

(21:59):
like it almost puts too much emphasison it in a way, in a
way of like this is the traumaand the grief, and this is how
we process grief when I come backto the idea that this eight year old
child is more or less conned intokilling his own parents, Right, that's
the thing, And that's hard toget around here, Like the movie's morality
is really skewed, and I canfor me, it didn't seem like it

(22:22):
was really interested in answering a question. It just seemed like it was interested
in posing the question, not reallyanswering it. I would have liked to
have seen the parents be weirder,right, But Lizzie Kaplan starts to lose
it more and more as the moviegoes on. She's got that key chain
on her belt, the janitor thingshe pulls out to unlock the door.

(22:44):
So you're going, okay, well, that's not that everything needs to be
explained, because I didn't even catchthat again until the second time I watch
it. I'm like, oh thekey chack. Yeah, she's got one
of those janitor things. Why whatparent carries their keys on their belt like
that to keep all the doors locked. She really doesn't lose it, lose
it until she knows that Peter knowsthat there is a girl crawling in the

(23:07):
crawl spaces of the house, butjust having them do weird things throughout the
movie, which goes back to parentsthe Bob Balaband film. This kid is
seeing weird things, you know,and it escalates and escalates and escalates.
Now, is what he's seen justthat his parents are weird? Or have

(23:27):
they done something awful? Do theydo awful things? That's the only way
we're getting that is from Sarah inthis Yes, our parents locked me up,
they did this other thing you're next, But we don't see a lot
of that. She directs him tothe skeleton in their pumpkin patch. What

(23:51):
would you think as an eight yearold? And the pumpkin patch is one
of those weird you know, theHalloween feel for this, it's like,
why do they have a pumpkin patch? And do they sell that? It
looks cool? Man, That's whyit does look cool, the cult of
cool. That's why. I don'tknow why that's well because the dad once
they realize that he's discovered the skeleton, which isn't explicitly stated in the film,

(24:12):
but he's like, tomorrow, you'regoing to help me out in the
garden. So he's dug out theskeleton and then starts talking about the blight
on the pumpkins and how we needto get rid of the bad ones so
that the good ones can survive sowe have a better crop. And I'm
thinking, okay, is that oneof the things that they do for work
is sell pumpkins. There's an oddthing too, And I don't know that

(24:34):
this really goes to the story orthe plot or anything, but the first
time I watched it, I waslike, why does he have a mark
on his chin? Was that explainedthat I missed it paying attention the second
time. I think it's when hismom is confronting him about the drawing that
he's doing in class that gets theteacher to come check on him. She's

(24:56):
talking to him and he looks upand he's got this red mark on his
chin that eventually kind of bruises andkind of spider legs out on his chin,
and I'm like, when the fuckdid he get that? And then
in the next scene he doesn't haveit, and then he gets tripped by
the bully in our Halloween the moviecallback to tripping him and smashing his pumpkin.

(25:21):
Also, the name of the schoolis a pretty dead the name.
Yeah, we'll get to that ina second. He falls on his face
and I'm like, okay, sothey just re edited this and it got
out of sync here, But whywhy was that re edited to where this
conversation with his mom and the picturething happens before he gets pushed down by

(25:41):
Brian and the playground. For somereason, it bothered me and I couldn't
quite understand why it was changed.But yes, the school holden Field or
the town olden Field, Baby,good Lord Haddenfield is the obvious go to,
but then I was thinking, it'slike hold In Caufield smushed together are

(26:02):
protagonists from Catcher in the Rye andI'm like, well, I mean a
kid that lives in his own world. I guess you could say for Catcher
in the Rye, is the connectionthere if that's even intentional or not so.
Lizzie Kaplan played the Kathy Bates characteron Castle Rock right and did a
good job. I didn't care thatmuch for that second season, but she
was a highlight. I would watcha Misery remake with Lizzie Kaplan. She

(26:26):
does have when she's The best scenein the movie for me is when she
is on the phone with the teacherstaring at the kid. While she is
on the phone with the teacher,the intensity that she has, it's really
hard to match it. And hereyes. I mean, we always talk
about Aubrey Plaza and the way thatshe looks and what she can evoke with

(26:47):
her eyes and kind of the tzone of her face. Lizzie Caaplan is
crazy eyes she does, but shecan also do that like the stare down
thing really well. I mentioned allthis because he is the best part of
this movie for me. It's kindof like miles ahead of anything else because
Anthony Starr is given nothing to do, which is fine. Normally we're saying

(27:10):
the female character has nothing to do, but it is a horror movie,
which means, oh, they've rememberedthat there are female characters in these movies.
Because that's female in horror. Ittends to go hand in hand,
especially more recently. But Lizzie Caaplan'sthe best part of this movie, one
hundred percent. She's so good.She is creepy, but then at the
same time, it's like, wasshe actually creepy at all? That's what

(27:32):
you keep coming back to, right, Yeah, because I have a hard
time understanding what the morality of themovie is, because the movie clearly wants
to have a conversation about the sinsof the parents being visited upon the child
and the child trying to make thosethings right, but to what end?
Movie? To what end? BecauseLizziekaplan's character is the most well formed of

(27:55):
the three main characters in the movie, more so than Peter. He feels
like a psite for I'm just goingto do whatever somebody else says, which
is pretty much his whole character throughoutthe entire movie. Which could be his
character. He's easily manipulated, andSarah, the girl in the wall,
tells him, you've got to standup for yourself against this bully. And
what is he do? Pushes himdown the stairs and just completely fucks up

(28:19):
his leg and gets him to doall of these things for her because she's
amplifying that our parents are bad,Our parents are bad. Missing a lot
of that dialogue and some of thestuff that first time. I was more
thrown off by that finale where youknow, and we might as well get

(28:41):
out there since we've spoiled it already. But the rat poison comes back and
they're eating dinner on Halloween night andMom's made a soup and oh, this
tastes funny and are different and I'mthinking, oh, one of them is
going to say it tastes like cinnamon, because that's apparently what the rat poison
that they have smells like. Andthen a second they did that, I

(29:02):
was like, Okay, this isgoing to get ugly. Right then the
reveal comes of Sarah out of thewall. That's where you kind of lose
me. Is this a deformed girlor is this a monster? Is it
both? Because it acts like amonster. Yeah, does. But yet
if it got out of the house, I guarantee that a cop could shoot
it twice and it would be dead. Well, And that's the thing,

(29:25):
is right, because it's a humanbeing. But is it? Are we
dealing with the super This is whatI have a problem with in the movie.
Are we dealing with a girl that'sdisfigured, that has adapted to her
living environment, or are we dealingwith something that's supernatural, was supernatural from
the get go, but can't apparentlyget out of the walls, or just

(29:48):
one of those things which I hateand my daughter and I have discussed before
that the thing that lives in thewall that's super strong, that can overpower.
I mean, if you're living inthe wall, you're probably nourished.
Yeah, that's the problem I havewith these stories is this thing is in
the wall, and if it's notsupernatural, that's why it couldn't bust out.
But if it is supernatural, itshould have just been able to bust

(30:10):
out this whole time. Putting itin the walls would never have been enough,
right, right, So it's gotto be a human. Then it
moves and crawls like a spider,and can crawl on the walls. So
it's developed this, But is thatjust because of where it lives that it's
like almost more of an evolutionary thing. Where I've lived in the walls my
whole life. I can squeeze myselfinto small spaces and I walk like a

(30:33):
crab or a spider or is it? And the reason I bring this up
is because at the very end,when Miss Divine, who has shown up
because of the phone call that Petermade to her earlier in the day,
they get out of the house eventually, and then he gets pulled back in
by Sarah and the door closes onits own. The door closes on its

(30:56):
own, correct, So that's theone thing where I'm like, how did
that happen? They're way down shehas dragged him into the other part of
the house and the door closes.Are you saying it's supernatural or not?
I assume because of the use ofemetic rat poison that this is a grounded
in reality thing. She stabs herselfby accident. I don't know, maybe

(31:18):
it's all realistic with everything but thespider, But to your point, fuck
you then, movie, it's likethe same thing I've talked about when we
do Night Gallery on Midnight Viewing,which is a podcast you can find over
a weirding Way Media along with thisshow. It's like, you're afraid to
do the supernatural. If I hadan opportunity to write a script like this,
why the funk would I hold backon the supernatural stuff? Like you

(31:41):
have a spider monster coming out ofthe wall, why are you what get
to it? Hop to it?Do something interesting with it? Don't just
not make a decision at all.The whole thing with poisoning his parents,
it's so like it's the movie.It's fucking weird, is what it is.
Dark, but it's also just strangethe level of intensity that the movie

(32:02):
has with what's going on with hisparents. It never reaches that point with
the way that they're treating him,that they that he kills them so horrifyingly.
When he's grounded, you know,he gets put. That's another thing
that I think would probably persuade him. You know, they've got a hidden

(32:23):
door behind the refrigerator that leads downto a pit basically right where they kept
her at some point, possibly keptthe girl that was kidnapped. Who's to
say, I mean, I guessthe thing is, like you have to
assume that, like this was builtand they built it. Well, definitely
the pit, right, he's takingeverything she says at face value. I

(32:44):
don't know. The lead character inthis movie is stupid. Is also the
problem. It's hard to like acharacter who's so gullible that he goes all
the way as far as to murderinghis own parents. That's how gullible this
character is. That's why I sayI would like them to seem weirder and

(33:06):
more of a threat, maybe evenmore menacing to him. Yeah, I
mean that's pretty gnarly to be lockeddown in the basement where there is a
pit that's fifteen feet deep that hasa stuffed animal in it with weird teeth.
That's pretty horrifying to an eight yearold. You know, that's not
going to be able to abstract this, right. I still think there could

(33:30):
have been more menace from them.Yeah, they needed to be more obviously
villains, because they are the villainsof the piece until they're not, and
the moment that they're not anymore,they have to be immediately shaded gray because
yes, they locked her in thebasement. But but that's the question like,
did they make her that way orwas she already that way? Right?

(33:52):
And that's again not a question thatthe movie's really interested in asking it.
It kind of brings it up fora second and then goes, hey,
you know something interesting worth talking about. We're not interested in that.
Let's have a Jake Busey or GaryBusey's son get murdered instead. That's the
other question I have is why isshe locked in there just because she's disfigured?
Did they I mean, was itmonstrous the second it came out?

(34:15):
How right? But they said thatshe was like out for a while,
and they made her disappear after awhile, right, Like she didn't disappear
the moment she was born. Imay have missed that part. Didn't they
imprison her? Wasn't she the missinggirl? No? That went missing on
Halloween? Was her being put inthe basement? No? She the missing

(34:36):
girl. Sarah imp tries to inferto him that his parents killed But isn't
it her? Though? As mypoint right, I think what it is
is she stumbled onto their house trickor treat in and neither got scared by
Sarah or something like that, andSarah killed her That's how I took it
the second time I watched it.Okay, got you, And that's maybe

(34:58):
when she was locked away and theparents tried to cover it up by burying
the girl's body in the garden.I took that as another fake out by
her to implicate them as being horrible, horrible people. Right, they've killed
this girl, they locked me upfor years. You're next. That's basically
the big threat here is that you'renext, right once you reach a certain

(35:22):
age, even though you could havebeen locked up this whole time. And
then, like you say, youknow, Jake Carrybucy's kid, Bucy comes
back with his cousins. That isfairly unnecessary, but gives us, I
guess, our body count for thefilm. I wanted to ask you about
that, because all of a suddenthe movie, it gets a lot bigger
for like twenty minutes, right,I felt like, to your point,

(35:45):
it was just a crutch to havekills, because otherwise this movie has like
no kills none. I'm not lamentingthat any more than you are, is
my point. But there are peoplethat do watch these movies that go,
where are the kills people dyeing?Where is the goal or it's like,
God, damn, is this allyou want? Is this all you want?

(36:07):
You know, is this all youwant? Kind of becomes and this
is what you get when that's allyou want, which is a protracted,
very slap dash done scene of kidsgetting killed, which ain't even interesting.
It's the least exciting part of themovie because we know so little about what
comes out of the door that wedon't know what could or couldn't happen,

(36:28):
And when what happens happens, it'slike, Okay, they built up the
reveal, and then the reveal justit's like, Oh, it's a girl
that has that can crawl on thewalls and has really long hair with spiders
crawling in it. Do they nevergive her a hair cut a barrel?
I guess not. I guess that'show that works. I think that was
one of the other things that peoplekind of decried was that bringing the four

(36:50):
or five boys to the house duSex body count baby ramps up unnecessarily.
Yeah, you could have had avery creepy ending where she gets out and
this stuff happens with the parents stillalive. Is he going to help her
or is he going to help savehis parents? And the mine shows up,
and why the parents had to dieand not be part of the climax

(37:13):
is like beyond me. Well that'sher revenge. Yeah, she could have
taken revenge on them, and Ithink that would have been more interesting.
Yeah, I guess the kid poisoningthem is revenge. But again the movie
doesn't land that. It doesn't stickthat landing because where the movie ends up
going after she forgets for five secondsshe has really long hair and is allowed

(37:36):
to be pulled into the bit inthe basement. I was just like,
Wow, she's gonna forget she haslong hair, right, Like that's where
now this movie is now predicated onthe villain is an idiot too. And
the movie then goes, well,I'm gonna get out eventually and there will
be nothing that you can do aboutit. But we know that that's not
the case because you didn't get outon your own that whole time, right,

(37:57):
Like, you didn't get out thewhole time because you were locked in
the fucking basement and then in thewalls. You never got out on your
own. So now that you're lockedup, why should we think that you're
going to get out? But thenit ties into what the movie's actually talking
about, which is grief and traumanever goes away. It never goes away,
but the movie wants to have themost ham fisted, fucking fake out
ending possible. That's not really afake out ending because it's literally just her

(38:22):
describing what he thinks he's gonna see. It's such a weird boy. I
had a big issue with that,and my daughter and I talked about it
afterwards, like, well, it'skind of really easy to get rid of
you. One of any number ofways. I could pour gasoline down that
pit, like this whole motherfucking houseon fire, orsa bent down it like

(38:42):
by and fill that fucking thing in. The cops come over. I mean,
sorry, kid, you're going toprison for murdering your parents, but
shotgun down the whole baby, Like, there's five other bodies in the house
that you killed. I'm calling thecops, you know, Miss Devine called
the cops. What else are yougoing to do? You're not just gonna
like abandon the house and no one'sever going to discover that there's a thing

(39:04):
living down there, which is whatthe ending went for. The ending goes
for that, and it's like,this is stupid I don't like to go
outside of the film, but kindof had to with this, Like,
this isn't a problem. There's numerousways to get rid of you and not
have to worry about whether you're goingto show up. If you were such
a threat, you could have bustedthrough the walls of an old wooden house.

(39:25):
Because the Cleopatra Coleman character breaks throughthe walls with a fire pick in
like two seconds. This monster canlike pick people up off the ground and
like rip their heads off with noproblem. There are no stakes in this
movie. The moment you realize what'sgoing on, and then when the movie
wants you to pretend along with itthat this character is a threat and that

(39:49):
we should be afraid of this character. No, no, I'm not going
to This character is not a threat, This is not malignant. Malignant felt
like a threat, even though it'sgoo. The Malignant felt like a threat.
This thing gets out, this thinggets shot, It's over the end,
Goodbye, the Saint Friday the thirteenth, The Saint Michaels. It's pretty
fast, so yeah, one fastthing, though one the movie doesn't understand

(40:14):
its own stakes. I feel likeit's really where I'm coming at this movie
from because it really should have justbeen a small story about a kid and
his parents, and his parents beingweird and trying to undo trauma and grief
that his parents have been neglecting todeal with by locking a child in the
walls, and you could still havehim kill his parents, but I think

(40:35):
it would have been more impactful ifthe movie had made it less clear the
morality of his parents' movies for theFriday night crowd, and it feels like
it's trying to be something else isreally what it feels like. The one
thing that I really liked was thenightmare sequence, even though you know it's
a nightmare sequence because his little bearcarpet next to his bed is spinning,

(41:00):
but I just loved that visual ofit. I'm like, oh, clear,
watch make sure you watch the scenebecause it's trippy. And then his
dad's standing in the corner and thesound that his eyes are making, and
the thing with Lizzie Caplan Runney Ireally enjoyed. I could have gone for
more the best part of the movie, more of that spooky vibe because this

(41:22):
guy, the director his show that'son Netflix, Mary Ann is creepy as
all get out. I haven't finishedit. I've started it on my own
ones, and then I convinced mywife to start watching it with me,
and we've got three episodes in andI think it was just kind of like
too much for her because it's really, really, really creepy. But I
feel like I can't knock the moviessetting and production design. I just can

(41:46):
knock everything else because it never livesup to the quality of the production and
the creature design is atrocious. Itis. Yeah, it's a smile reject
is what it is. Or didnot like it at all, and I
was like, I kind of getit. The one shot also that I
really really liked was him sitting onthe stairs with those big, huge shadows

(42:10):
of his parents. It reminded meof like Chris van Alsberg artwork or something
CGI shadows, right, are theycgi? Are there CGI shadows? Right?
I think they were just super brightspotlight shadows. They looked so good
they were almost cg I thought theywere seeing. There's a couple more too.
One time when his dad walks inthe room, there's this really defined

(42:30):
shadow and then there's one of hercrawling as well. Yeah, just the
spotlight on his wall where the scratchescome from. That to me, that
works. There's not quite enough ofthat in this I have a feeling I
was starting to think to myself,like, is this something that's going to
creep back up into my head whenfall kicks in to rewatch? I don't

(42:52):
know. I enjoyed it much moreof the second time I watched it,
because I caught a lot of whatI missed that didn't make sense the first
time made it's the second time,and then I was like, oh,
he got manipulated and all of thatmade sense as far as the morality of
it goes, you know, that'swhere you can argue. But I missed
some of those key things that shewas saying to him through the wall because
it's, you know, a girltalking through the wall. So I'm curious

(43:15):
to see if this is something thatmy daughter brings up. I mean,
she may want to watch it againbefore Halloween. I don't know, but
if it's something that we'll come backto. We didn't mention Deborah Wilson,
but my god, Deborah Wilson's voicework as the creature. I'm a huge
fan of Deborah Wilson because she wasI mean, I'm one of those people
that watch mad TV because I wasthe writ act at the right time.

(43:36):
That surprised me. I know shedoes a lot of voice acting, but
I was like, hey, wait, I know her from something. Yeah,
she's a fantastic voice actor, butyeah, she does a better job
than that creature deserves in terms ofthe voice performance, because again, the
design is exactly what you would thinkit is. I mean, it's nothing
unique about it. The fact thatshe doesn't have four or eight eyes is

(43:57):
maybe the more interesting part. You'regonna make a movie that's a vehicle for
trauma and grief discussions. I'm theBoogeyman is a better nice segue. Well,
when there are scary things we don'tunderstand, our minds try to fill

(44:20):
in the blanks. Sometimes the bestthing to do is to face it.
So this light is going to becompletely solid like it is right now,
and gradually it's going to start flashinguntil it's totally dark, so you can
see that there's nothing to be afraidof. Okay, see that's not so

(44:45):
scary. Is it just you,your sister and me doing Okay, sorry,
it's okay, it's ok So it'sjust in your head. H m

(45:21):
hmmm, Katy, there's something inmy room. You'll believe me, don't

(45:42):
you. There's no such thing asmonsters. You need to grow up.
I'm serious, Sawyer. I needto be alone. You're both having these
manifestations. What is this supposed tobe? It's the thing that comes from

(46:04):
your kids, or you're not payingattention, dag. You have to listen
to me. Okay, I'm listening, sweetheart. Let me handle In terms

(46:37):
of having an actual discussion about it, I think it is a little ham
fisted. We have talked about plentyof Stephen King's stuff for your show and
my show, so it shouldn't comeas a surprise that Stephen King's stuff is
still being adapted for what the sourcematerial is. What they get out of
it is pretty interesting. I won'tsay it's the most exciting or unique idea.
I've watched it three times and Ienjoyed it all three times. I

(46:59):
watched it and it's a PG thirteenmovie, which was the most shocking part
for me that I enjoyed it becausePG thirteen horror movies tend to be like
a cup of coffee, you getit in office like it's pretty watered down.
For the most part. Yeah,I mean there's good ones out there.
I don't even normally pay attention towhat ratings are these days. I
didn't even know that this in myhead, like, oh, this feels

(47:22):
like a PG thirteen. I didn'tlook at the rating, and I didn't
really think about it when we werewatching the movie. But we watched this,
My daughter and I watched this immediatelyafter Cobweb, and I already kind
of had in my head that theseare similar stories because I know the story.
I've read this story numerous times inthe Night Shift collection. Was curious
as to how they were going toexpand that world because it's a very small

(47:46):
story. I mean, it's abottle episode story. It's the David Beast
Malchion thing. His part of thismovie is basically it. He is the
character in the story. But heexplained in detail what happens to his three
kids, right, and then Ithought, oh, okay, I get

(48:06):
it. We're passing this on thento this guy, Chris Messina. Chris
Messina, Yeah, just saw himin Sharp Objects of all things. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I like ChrisMessina a lot. I do too.
I was like, wait a minute, what do we used to watch
him in I asked my wife,She's like, he was on that MINDI
Project show, and I was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. But sharp Wall,Yeah, he's I love it when

(48:28):
he pops up. I think he'sin one of the seasons of the Center
as well, Yes, the thirdseason. Yeah, he's good. I
like him. We watched both seasonsof Yellow Jackets, so I knew of
the older daughter from that. Ithink my daughter said she's in something else
too. And Sophie Thatcher, who, by the way, she is better
than I think everybody but Lizzie Kaplanin Cobweb. She's really good. I

(48:52):
like Sophie Thatcher a lot. It'sbecause of her eyes. She has some
hyper expressive eyes, which is perfectfor someone who's going to be in horror
movies or working in genre phil Iwouldn't be surprised if she continues to do
these kinds of movies and becomes amore contemporary scream queen. She's really good,

(49:12):
and this is the first thing I'veseen her in. Yeah. I
enjoyed her, much like I enjoyLizzie Kaplan. I don't know if I
like one more than the other,but her in this comparis to Lizzie Kaplan
and Colin and other things that she'sbeen in. I was kind of expecting
the little girl from Megan to bethe younger sister. That's the feel I
got from her. I think thatgirl's probably too old now, but that's

(49:35):
in. She's in doctor sleep andputting and pillhouse and all that Mike Flanagan
stuff. To Violet McCraw, Ithink this was the girl from bird Box.
Oh, okay, Vivian Lea Blair, she's good. I mean,
child actors in movies these days,we're not six years ago, so it
can't be Lulu Wilson unfortunately. Imean thinking of my daughter and I watched

(49:55):
Becky and Wrath of Becky last weekend, so we like Lulu Wilson. I
don't even know what that is.Oh well, Becky is pretty great.
The second one is okay, she'sin both of those basically revenge tales from
the perspective of a young kid.Oh Becky, the one with Kevin James,

(50:15):
Yeah, yeah, a Nazi.Yeah, that movie was fun.
I did see that. I justforgot too. I thought it had a
different name. I couldn't reside allof it. She's great, I honestly.
I mean, if this movie hadbeen made five years ago, it
would have been her in it.I mean, this movie was for all
intents and purposes. It's kind ofa shock that it exists. It got
canceled at one point because it waspart of the Disney Fox merger, and

(50:39):
then it was brought back two yearslater, and then they were going to
put it on streaming, but thenthey sent it to Stephen King, and
he goes put that shit in thetheater, and they did, and it
made a fair amount of money fora movie that came out in theaters in
June of twenty twenty three. Seethere's another one, another early book to

(51:00):
movie, but this one is inHalloween. This is more what I expect
from a Midsummer movie. I onlysay that because it's a Stephen King property.
I don't care if it's a lesserStephen King. I don't care if
it's from Nightshift, and nobody remembersa lot of things from Nightshift other than
everything else they've already adapted, whichis a lot. It's a Stephen King
property. That's why I say that. It's like, you know, he

(51:22):
can come out whenever he wants anytime of the year, right, as
far as I'm concerned, And Ithink it has a lot of history,
but a reputation as being one ofthe creepier stories from that collection. And
that's a strong collection, I'm sure. I mean, I know because I've
read his other writings about the writingof these things. A lot of it
was just to sell to the men'smagazines, to put food on the table.

(51:45):
We're not talking high falutin literature,no, no, no. Some
of the stories in that collection aremaybe lesser than others, but I just
always remember it having an impression onme when I read it years ago as
being one of the creepier definitely creepierthan trucks, which becomes maximum overdrive or

(52:06):
you know, some of the otherones that are more almost have a punchline
ending. This is like creepy,creepy a dad telling stories about his three
kids getting killed up until the pointof them being killed or horrified by something
that's living in their closet, whichis a common terror of kids, right

(52:29):
right. And I think that thatis the success of this movie, to
your point, is that it istrading in something that really doesn't have to
do with Stephen King at all,the Boogeyman, this is not it.
This isn't Pennywise, isn't Children ofthe Corn. This is something is hiding
in your closet. We all canunderstand that. The universality of it.
Cobweb almost had it. There isa universality of like the haunted house,

(52:52):
the hidden thing, maybe not inyour closet or in your walls or whatever,
something that doesn't come out right exceptwhen it's dark and you're in bed
alone and living in your head,you know, having these thoughts and right
you're open to it. Cobweb andthe Boogeyman are trading in that same thing

(53:12):
of like the thing that you can'tsee at night is about to get you,
but you hear it and it's whispering. Yeah, it can change voices
and sounds like your dad or yourmom. I know. And like,
honestly, it is unfair to compareand contrast the two movies, but they
came out in twenty twenty three,within a month of one another. It
is what it is. But Ithink at the same time, if you're
talking about a movie that does abetter job having a conversation about how grief

(53:37):
can affect people and grief in thismovie is the Boogeyman. I guess in
Cobweb, it's generational trauma is thesister. I think it's done better here
because we don't get a sense ofwhat the thing actually is. It is
just kind of a stand in.Yes, it kills people. Yes,
it is aggressive. When it talksto people, it's not trying to convince

(54:00):
them to do things. It's justsiren calling them, beckoning it to their
doom, which works better as anidea when you're talking about grief, because
again, like grief is faceless,generational trauma isn't. So in that respect,
Cobweb is successful at opening that box. I think this movie just does

(54:21):
a better job at having a conversationwith itself or with the audience of like,
what does it look like when peopleactually can't deal with grief? Let's
manifest it real as this pretty welldesigned creature on top of everything else.
My daughter mentioned after watching both ofthem she definitely liked the creature and the
Boogeyman better. The design alone.The short story doesn't really give up the

(54:45):
ghost as to what it is.It just says like and then it takes
off his disguise. And he's theand it's like, okay, but what
does that mean? They kind ofhave a lot of room to play with,
But where they went is pretty interesting. I kind of want to touch
on that whole grief thing because itseems like that's the two thousands. That's
all we deal in these days isgrief. Everything you know, Hereditary is

(55:07):
the big one. Baba Duke isawesome. It seems like everything has to
go back to dead mom, deadwife, dead kid, deformed kid.
Well, can we get away fromthat? Can it just be a creepy
thing in the closet? The Ritualthat was about grief too, Yeah,
I've loved that movie. Or Guiltthat's more of maybe guilt and regret.

(55:30):
Midsummer was also about grief. Imean, well, if this movie had
been told from a certain perspective,it could have been grief and guilt.
I mean, because it's told fromthe kid's perspective, there's less guilt.
But if the story had been toldfrom the dad's perspective, right, that
is the missed opportunity for me withthis movie is this could have been a
two hour movie and it really couldhave had more. The dad could have

(55:52):
been more of the focus or moreof a focus could have been with the
dad, because I don't think thestory necessarily needed to be Sophie Thatcher's story
specifically, because it really is like, how does grief affect all three of
these people? And we see itwith the dad refusing to go to therapy
and running out and not believing thedaughter. There's a version of this movie

(56:13):
that's two two and a half hourswhere you get to see more of what
was going on. I'm not sayingI needed it, but I like Chris
Massina so much that I would haveappreciated it. It's kind of kind of
what I'm getting at again, whatlike another eighty eight eighty five minute movie.
Yeah you're in there and you're notcomplaining about that. Yeah no,
No, can't complain about the getin and get or done attitude for sure.

(56:36):
And what a year David Dasto Makianhas been having. I know,
I kept saying to Clear, I'mlike, it's block, it's Polka dot
man. Yeah, I mean he'sjust showing up in everything. He's going
to be in Dune. He's Yeah, he's been in tons of stuff over
the last couple of years. Hewas in the ant Man movie too.
I'm pretty sure God he was inthe last voyage of the Debater as well.
Yeah, he's creepy looking, soit works for that opening where we

(57:00):
take the original story. I washoping we were going to get flashbacks of
what was happening to his kids otherthan the kind of cold open, which
was obviously one of his children gettingtaken by this creature. But I was
sort of hoping to see portions ofthe other two events as well, because
I think that could have really lentto the creepiness of the opening for the

(57:22):
film. You're totally right. Ifeel like the movie gets going a little
fast. This movie, unlike Cobweb, this movie doesn't leave itself a lot
of spin up time because I feellike it is assuming that you know the
setup already, which is like,there's something that's haunting this family in the
movie, kind of assuming you knowthe setup, it doesn't take a lot

(57:42):
of time to let things build.And I'm with you, I could have
used more of the family even prelike a flashback to pre the mom dying,
or a flashback to the Billing's family, the David Dostelmackian characters family,
like I could have used some ofthat just as set up for the movie.
Like we've mentioned about the short story, the short story is so far

(58:06):
removed from what the movie is.It's one scene in the movie, but
it's not even the way the scenein the book. When the story plays
out, it doesn't feel like itwants to give itself time without the monster.
It wants the monster ever present allthe time, which I understand thematically
and also from a you know,in terms of like for the Friday night

(58:28):
crowd who this movie is made for. You want to keep their attention on
the screen with things happening, whichis why I think people have kind of
said this movie feels a little workmanlikeI can see, but there are also
some some nice touches. There's adirect fucking reference to the shining at one
point. Is it in this Iguess it's a is no. The shining
reference was in Cobweb, where itwas a little on the nose with the

(58:51):
teacher hitting the wall with the pick. I was like, oh my god,
we just seem to do that andeverything least day. I know in
Boogeyman it was the inverting of thecamera. They used the yeah, when
she goes to look under the bed, the under the bed scene, and
we then my daughter and I starttalking about Poultergeist and everything else. Then
you know, uses that trick.But that was a nice move, and

(59:13):
I liked her little moon ball globelight that she used. They implemented that
really well on a couple of scenes. I could have used her getting scared
more in her bedroom alone. Tobe honest with you, I wanted more
of that, Like you say,build up creepiness, not just let's figure
this out real quickly. It feltlike Sophie Thatcher whatever her character's name is.

(59:37):
I'm horrible with character names, getsto it too quickly. Yes,
she believes her sister too quickly.It feels like I appreciate that though,
because I am tired of like,well, yes, but at the same
time, like this is almost theit's almost you didn't give it enough time.
We don't need to see Uncle Bendie again with Spider Man, Like

(59:59):
I don't need to see parents andsiblings not believing people anymore. Oh yeah,
the Boy who Cried Wolf. Yeah, I don't need to see I
needed a little bit more and thismovie was like nope, just like you're
right, it must be a monster, but also the way the narrative is
kind of situated. You have thecharacter that David Dastelmachi in plays comes to

(01:00:20):
the therapist house, he kills himself, and she by that point already knows
that there is something else because she'slike, well, I heard them fighting.
I heard somebody fighting with something else. That's what I mean. Yeah,
that's not enough, it's not enough. It's like she already believes that
there's a monster before she even knowsthat her sister has seen a monster.

(01:00:43):
But that's what I mean, isshe's that scene of her when the police
are there saying that bit about hewas arguing with somebody. Right, it
wasn't my dad or any That's theinference here is that it's not it wasn't
any of us, But I heardsomething, right, you know, say,
I don't think the sisters even pipedup about now being scared yet or

(01:01:04):
not. But it's too quick forthem to all be on the same page,
except for Dad, who takes tillthe end of the movie when they're
in the basement and getting attacked bythe thing to realize it. Like you
said, I could have used somescares with him. Yes, there's none.
With him, we get the wholething with Sophie Thatcher missing her mom,
wearing her clothes and keeping her paintsupplies and all that. You're going

(01:01:29):
to get some scares, obviously fromher point of view. In regard to
the mom, Well he lost hiswife. I mean, why not have
him maybe wake up in the middleof the night and see that outline of
his wife in that dress, asopposed to Sophie Thatcher seeing it and give
them all for him. It wouldjust be this is my grief talking.

(01:01:49):
I'm seeing Mom everywhere, which iswhy he ends up packing stuff up.
It could be well, actually itwas this creature doing it, but there's
none of that. He could stilldismiss it as since he's a therapist,
this is how I'm processing through mygrief. Well, that's what he does
for her. He's like, well, she'll have him see it. Yeah,
now it's it's actually really it's reallyfrustrating because you can see those scenes

(01:02:15):
the way that they would play out, because the movie has and does a
good enough job at I've read kindof some of the reviews saying Rob Savage's
work is workmanlike. I don't thinkit is, though, because like,
there's a lot of decisions that aremade in the scenes with the creature that
are definitely being made by the director, Like the scene where the little girl

(01:02:35):
is playing video games. By theway, they say don't leave her alone,
but they leave her as alone alot. Can I just say one
thing, to turn on fucking lightsin your house please? They definitely didn't
say it lives in the darkness.Why is she playing video games in the
dark with the monsters in the dark? And I was like, fuck if
I know, the simple reason iswe've got to keep the movie going if

(01:02:58):
they have all the lights on thereand it can't come out. And I'm
like, then don't set it upthat they know. Ye don't tell them
that. Yeah. So it's almostlike these characters are the inverse of the
characters in Cobweb. These characters areall too smart, they know too much.
In Cobweb, they were just like, let's lock our kid in the
walls, like okay, sure,Like I'll never have anything bad in the

(01:03:20):
long run. Han. Here,it's like they're so smart that when they
act dumb, it's like, wait, why are you dumb? Right?
That was frustrating, very frustrating becauseI know that people are going to act
dumb in a horror movie. Butwhen you have explained that it lives in
the dark, and you know thatand you've tested it already, and even
the little girl, I believe knowsthis at that point. Yes, why

(01:03:43):
are you playing video games in apitch black room? Everything else is dark
in this room. She has toknow because she ends up going into the
closet when Sophie Thatcher ends up gettingback to the house and with the lights.
Yeah, yeah, And I believethat Sophie Thatcher has met Lester Billing's
wife at this point, and sheexplains, yeah, I think that's all
correct chronologically. Oh, can wetalk about the thing with his wife.

(01:04:06):
I really didn't understand that she wasstill alive, Like it was not clear
that like she was still alive.That it was very weird when she just
showed up. That part of themovie didn't work for me very well.
With her in the house, It'slike a different movie altogether. I didn't
care for that. It got intowhat am I thinking of, you know,

(01:04:30):
with the setting of the booby trapsand which we get too later.
You know, that's sort of theculmination of this for her. Is she's
still living in this house that's infestedwith whatever this creature leaves behind, all
these traces of it kind of cobwebbingthrough the house and Catchet. I guess.

(01:04:50):
I guess it can exist in multiplespaces or hop from one to the
other because it's still there. Butit's also it Sophie Thatcher's house, and
I enjoy that she's investigating. Thewife agreed. I just think it could
have been creepier, just like heralone catatonic in a house, not like

(01:05:12):
not like Sally Hardisty from all Right. I was gonna say, Jamie Lee
Curtis and Halloween, you know,the whole trauma thing going to this place
and sitting it made Michael Myers atrauma monster, didn't they. I just
realized that. Yeah, I talkedabout that on those Halloween episodes. Yeah,
that's the thing with this grief stuffand how it's that's the monster for

(01:05:34):
every movie these days. It getsold, and man, it was old
when the Baba Duke did it.It's fine, I guess, And what
are you gonna do? I mean, it seems like that's we have to
I'm done when make it relatable topeople, to normal audiences. It can't
just be a spooky monster, right, everybody has grief and trauma these days.
Apparently the days of this spooky monsterare over. That was my least

(01:05:58):
favorite part. Interact with his wifewere like, yeah, functional, they
use it as a fake out whenshe goes to the house to be like,
oh, the monster, there's apicture and maybe it's the monster,
and no, it's his wife.But yeah, it ultimately doesn't serve the
plot. All it does is kindof undercut the monster because it feels like
the monster is focusing on one personsolely, and David Dastelmachian kind of put

(01:06:24):
it onto this other family is anattempt to get rid of it, is
what it felt like. But thenthe monster killed him in the process.
Anyways, why the monster didn't killhis wife is beyond me. Why the
monster is I mean, the monsteris on the Sophie Thatcher's family because of
the mom just passing away. It'sa grief monster that feeds off of your
grief, and like Pennywise, itseasons the meat. They kind of say

(01:06:45):
that, They say like it likesto scare you, which is great.
I appreciate that. I actually likethat as a concept if not for the
fact that it has already done it. And this is also a Stephen King,
so you know, fine, Imean, it's a reoccurring thing,
and it works here actually better thanit doesn't it, because it never This
does a better job in talking aboutgenerational trauma than it ever did, or

(01:07:09):
like grief the Boogeyman story. Ultimately, if not for the fact that the
therapist reveals himself to be the boogeymanin the story, there may not have
been a boogeyman to begin with,because that guy blames the boogeyman for his
kids dying. But the monster inthe house literally could just be a family
member who is abusing the rest ofthe family. Right, But there's literally

(01:07:30):
a monster. But there is literallya monster. That's the beauty of that
short story. You know. It'slike eleven pages long in my paperback version
of the right book, probably shorterand hardcover. There ain't much to it.
Have you ever seen the Dollar Babythat was made of it back in
the eighties, I have not.I watched it a couple of years ago,
I think, when I was doingmy Stephen King series. Frank Darrabant

(01:07:54):
did one from Night Shift and theygot released on video. There were two
volumes of it, and I rememberseeing them all the time at the video
store. Never rented them. I'mpretty sure they're all still on YouTube.
It's pretty creepy. I think it'smaybe maybe half an hour if that long,
seven minutes, Yeah, yeah,it's check it out afterward. It's

(01:08:16):
pretty good. The Frank Darbant oneis good too. It's been adapted since
then as Dollar Babies by a lotof people because of its creepiness, and
it's very it's a very simple bottleepisode. Story just takes place in the
doctor's office, therapist office basically.I mean you can have flashbacks obviously to
what goes on in his house.I enjoyed it a lot. I don't

(01:08:40):
know if I enjoyed it more thanCobweb, but maybe I'm answering my own
question here. But I do seeus watching this again. The Boogeyman,
Yeah, for sure. When spookyseason. For one thing, I get
on Stephen King Kicks all the time. And it's a new Stephen King movie,
and it's based on a one ofhis creepiest stories and directed well and

(01:09:01):
acted very well, and a fewminor complaints aside. I don't remember hearing
all that much good stuff about this. I think the consensus middle of the
road. Yeah, stereotypical trophy.I didn't really feel that way about it,
maybe because I like the story somuch. It felt stereotypical and trophy
of a certain kind of stereotypical andtrophy that is more recent stereotypical and trophy

(01:09:27):
than it is old, which isthe grief monster movie. Those tropes are
still fresh enough and new enough thatI feel like I'm with you. I'm
still interested in what can be minedfrom that. And Rob Savage does have
some moments in this movie that arereally interesting, like the moment when the
sister, the younger sister takes offin the basement with the lights connected to
her and it like slow mos onthat shot. I mean, there's some

(01:09:49):
really interesting shots in this movie.I could see it not playing super excitedly
for a certain audience, only becauseagain they're like, well, were being
bombarded with this kind of movie constantlyanyways, and it's just another in a
line of but I think it ismore. I judged this more as a
Stephen King movie and less as agrief monster movie. Yeah, it's a

(01:10:14):
good Stephen King adaptation. The lastthing that was Stephen King that came out
was Mister Harrigan's Phone, which Idid not see. I've watched it a
couple times. I watched it prettyshortly after it came out direct to Netflix,
I believe dumped on Netflix, andthen my daughter and I watched it.
It's there's not a lot to it. It's pretty decent. And then

(01:10:34):
Firestarter and Children of the Corn,and then pre twenty twenty it was Doctor
Sleep. Yeah, Firestarter is notgood. That's what I have not seen
the latest Children of the Corn yet. On the Little Leak. Gained to
not watch it when we did ourepisode because it was out when we did
our episode earlier in the year.Oh was it already Oh yeah, because

(01:10:54):
it came out in like twenty twenty. We just chose not to because we
heard how bad it was. Okay, that makes and ends I don't even
remember. Supposedly later this year,still being billed as twenty twenty three The
Salem's Lot, Yeah, which youknow, it's funny. The last voyage
of the Dimitter or however you pronounceit is directed by the guy that was

(01:11:15):
supposed to do the Long Walk andI guess that tanked at some point,
but I was really interested in that. I don't know if you've ever read
that Richard Backman's story. It's goodhow it would well, I mean,
I can see how it would bemade into an interesting movie. But I
like that guy's other movies. Ilike The Autopsy of Jane Doe. I
like Scary Stories We Tell in theDark. Wait, is that him?

(01:11:39):
Yeah, James Vanderbilt or no,Andre's over Dell. Yeah, he's the
guy did Troll Hunter. Yeah,troll Hunter's pretty fun. But I really
like Autopsy of Janeo and the andthe Scary Stories movie. I mean,
I'm sure with Halloween approaching, mydaughter and I will be watching Scary Stories
again sometime soon. So I wasreally looking forward to that, and I

(01:12:00):
guess it just died. Yeah,I'd like to see that adapted. Actually,
it's a pretty fascinating story. Andyou didn't see the Lost Voyage right,
not yet. I plan to watchit though, Okay, it sounds
interesting. I mean I like thatpart of the book. I liked that
episode that they did on that BBCDracula on the Boat that's essentially that part
of the story. I mean lookat Dracula. I mean, how many

(01:12:23):
times has Dracula been into the ground? Like something new is much appreciated frankly,
so that's kind of why I haven'trushed to watch it, because Dracula,
honestly is not my favorite. Ididn't see Renfield this year either,
so I didn't either. Yeah,there are so many Stephen King things in
the pipeline. Billy Summers, aremake of Christine Elevation, fairy Tale,

(01:12:47):
which was literally his book that cameout last year. From a Buick eight,
The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon,The Life of Chuck, The Little
Green God of Agony, The RunningMan again supposedly end Throttle. I think
from a Buick eight has been doneright. Wasn't that a TV show Christian
Slater or something? Maybe I'm thinkingof a different story. No, that's

(01:13:08):
not for eight too, No no, no, no, no, mister
Mercedes, no nope. All theseStephen King books based off of fucking cars.
I'm almost positive he was in.I know we talked about Stephen King
a lot. You and I havetalked about a fair amount of Stephen King's
stuff. When's it gonna end?Well, I'm not saying I don't want

(01:13:31):
anymore. But what I'm saying issomething more akin to like, are you
telling me that there are no otherhorror writers than anybody could fucking adapt?
Because you know it's the joke.I mean, I go to half price
books and in the horror section thereare two authors and they both have K's
in their names, and those arethe only books that you can get for
the most part, Koons and King, and they're more or less back to
back. And it feels the sameway for horror movie adaptations because of how

(01:13:56):
well known Stephen King is, that'sall we ever get well, and you're
going to get a pretty decent storyout of it. I mean really,
but unless it's fire Starter. Itwas Dolan's Cadillac that Christian Slater was in,
So another car, another, another, another car thing. It's pretty
bad. So yeah, dig deepwhen I get on Stephen King kicks.

(01:14:17):
Sometimes sure, I'm like, Ihaven't seen this one yet, Like twenty
fourteen's Mercy, based on the shortstory Grandma. That one's pretty bad,
which was also adapted into a fuckingepisode of the twilight Zone from nineteen eighty
five, which was written by HarlanEllison. That one's with Coral Kid from
Walking Dead. Oh god, God, I'm not very good. Stephen King.

(01:14:43):
For as long as I've been alive, for as long as you've been
watching movies and reading has been abig part of pop culture, and there
was a time and a place wherethere were no horror authors to adapt that
people were interested in other than theclassics, which is why we got Frankenstein,
Aculum and The Invisible Man, becauseagain, that's H. G.
Wells, that's Mary Shelley and Bramston, right, But now it's just Stephen

(01:15:09):
King all the time. He's abreadth of content. I get it.
Don't say Joe will please, No, no, no, no, I
was gonna say the guy that JoeKevin at the End of the Woods or
whatever the hell. Yeah, soyou got him a couple books out.
I slive Barker, but he's toogay and sexy for mainstream Hollywood, baby

(01:15:30):
well or if nothing else, alittle too weird. Yeah. I still
love that Midnight Meat Train was turnedinto a movie, and that they kept
the title the Stephen King thing.Once he passes away at some point,
we'll reach the end twenty or thirtyyears after that, because you still have
a lot of unadapted things, alot. Even Nightshift has almost been adapted

(01:15:55):
completely, but that has not stoppedthem from doing several I mean again,
you mentioned the Boogeyman already existed asa dollar baby. The fact that there
wasn't another Boogeyman movie before this issomewhat surprising, and a lot of those,
honestly could stand for a redo.The Mangler, Graveyard Shift, Yeah,

(01:16:16):
God, was it lawnmower Man?I mean lawnmower Man? Well,
yeah, that's from Night Shift,right, that could be done. Well,
actually, no, it's a prettyit's pretty anachronistic, unfortunately. Well,
and there's not much to that story. That's one of those we're really
just a big fat guy chewing upyour lawn. Doesn't make for a movie.

(01:16:40):
Yeah no, yeah. That wasthe interesting thing, like I kind
of got out earlier, is Iwas curious as to how they were going
to expand on this, because that'swhat has to be done with these,
especially these early stories. Oh yeah, or the short stories even like we
talked about on that episode, Trucksis a very simple story. Children of

(01:17:00):
the Corn again, very simple.They add a lot to it. I
like what they did with this withthe passing on. But I still could
have done with more of the originalstory. I could have done with more
of the Billings stuff, yea,even some more scares in this, even
some more early scares where they're allgetting visited by this thing at one point

(01:17:21):
or another. That's how Sophie Thatchercomes around to it is that she now
sees it in her room at night. The dad has an instance of seeing
it, you know, maybe notall at the same time, but kind
of build up to it a littlebit more. And it's clearly interested in
feeding on the dad because when theycome upon it in the basement, it's
feeding on the dad. They stopit from feeding on the dad. So

(01:17:43):
it would stand to reason that itbothering the dad should have been something because
again it kills Lester Billings. It'sheavily implied. He doesn't commit suicide,
I would say, and the monsterkilled him again. I feel like there's
more of a movie here that isn'tone, and more of that movie I
would have appreciated. I would havebeen interested to see some more scares,

(01:18:04):
because the scares are well done,and grief affects everybody in a family,
especially when it's the mob because,like you said, it was his wife
too. It feels like a bigmissed opportunity. But I think for me,
I enjoyed most of where this moviewent. I will say, so
we haven't talked about it. Theway the movie plays out, they kind
of kill the monster, they lightit on fire, the house burns down.

(01:18:25):
There's no Michael Myers breathing. ButI digress. We go to the
next scene and they're back in thetherapist office and we're kind of seeing the
payoff of the dad is finally intherapy. Let me get to hear kind
of this. I would say it'sa little saccharin, but I think it's
well earned, him talking about how, you know, he tried, but
we're going to keep trying and we'llkeep doing better. And they're having this

(01:18:46):
group session that's kind of been talkedabout throughout the movie, and then they
leave and the daughter gets called backinto the office, and I'm sitting here
thinking to myself, Okay, moviehere you go, Like this is the
point in in any horror movie wherethe movie either is elevating itself just that
little bit more or is going toslip and fall school and just like slips

(01:19:06):
right down the fucking stairs right whenyou're at the top step. And I
think the way they handled the stingerin this movie is really interesting because it
leaves a moment of ambiguity as towhether or not the things still around.
I think it still is, obviously, but I think the way that they
handle it is so smart though,because at the end of this story,

(01:19:29):
it's not really the end of theBoogeyman's story so much is the end of
the Harper family story, which opensit up if they want to go somewhere
else, because what better place fora grief monster to live than in the
closet of a therapist, right.I think it's partly full circle back to
the story itself. That story endsin the therapist's office with right him leaving.

(01:19:53):
I think, if I'm not sayingI haven't read it in a while,
I think Billings leaves and then getscalled back in, and then that's
when the therapist. He goes tothe lobby and there's no receptionist, and
the monster comes out essentially behind himinto the lobby. Yeah. Yeah,
it's a little callback I think tothe original story as well, and I
was like, oh no, don'tdo this. If she fucking sees that

(01:20:15):
thing in that closet, I'm goingto be really angry. And then Lisa
gay Hamilton shows up in a spotwhere it doesn't seem like she should be
and did you need something? AndI'm like, okay, they want to
do set up a sequel, fine, but I just don't want to see
it again. I don't want tosee it again. I'm gonna say it's
not still there and go against whatyou're saying. Well, I mean,
ultimately it doesn't matter, right,Grief is always there, whether or not

(01:20:39):
we want to acknowledge it. Thatis ultimately what the movie is getting at.
I think the thing that would leadme to believe it's still there is
the fact that Lisa Gay Hamilton actsso surprised when she's back in there.
It said, hey, can youcome back in for a second. Obviously
she didn't call her in, right, but maybe so fast just tear and
stuff. Right. But to befair, I mean, I don't think

(01:21:00):
the movie suffers either way. AndI think that's because it's done the same
way, well up until one lastfinal moment. It's done the same way
Nightmare on Elm Street is done,where it's like, oh it might be
there, it might not be.Here is the top of the car with
Freddy Krueger's colors on it, andMom getting pulled into the window. Well,
that's maybe the step too far.I mean, Sophie, Thatcher doesn't

(01:21:21):
get dragged into the closet. Thismovie has a little bit more of an
upbeat ending, which the story doesn'thave. I think it earns the upbeat
ending, and there's nothing wrong witha horror movie having an upbeat ending.
That everything has to be doom andgloom. I don't mind it at all.
If black long fingers had wrapped aroundthat door, I would have been

(01:21:42):
really angry. And I would havebeen really really angry if she had gotten
sucked into the closet by it,agreed, I would not have been happy
with that. I'm with you.I'm okay with the ambiguity, and it
reminded me a lot. Frankly,the transition between the credits and the end
of the movie reminded me a lotof the Fright Night remake, where they
were using a cover of ninety nineproblems. All of a sudden they just
start playing Burning Love by Elvis overthe da which I thought it was funny.

(01:22:09):
I laughed. I was like,I'm like, is that just because
they set it on fire and wereusing this? Okay? Yeah, I
thought it was pretty funny. Igot a good chuckle out of it.
You know that Cobweb went the moreHalloween esque route with playing in an old
timey right, mister Sandman or something, right. I just thought it was

(01:22:30):
funny. Okay, I got agood chuckle out of it. I mean
I just have that one because Iwas confused for a minute. I'm like,
what the hell? I think itjust goes to reinforce the upbeat ending
of the movie, you know,sure, yeah, like yourself, I
have a problem with movies that havethese stinger endings where we essentially wasted ninety
nine minutes to see the last minutewhere the character is, you know,

(01:22:53):
summarily. I mean like Texas ChainSaw twenty twenty two is a pretty good
example. Yeah. I just watchedsomething else too that the same way,
like fuck you movie. Yeah,it's cheap, and it always feels like,
oh what are you set in thefucking trap on a bait on the
trap again? For another you know, thirty dollars of my money to go
see it on a Friday night withsomebody else, Like that's what it feels

(01:23:14):
like, just trying to set ahook for me to come back as someone
who likes to watch a movie that'sjust a movie and nothing else. I
don't mind when the movie just ends. And this movie, I mean,
even if it does leave the dooropen, no pun intended, I think
it closes the door on the storyof that family, which if they want
to do a sequel, like I'dwatch another sequel about a grief monster fucking

(01:23:34):
with another family, but I don'thave any interest in seeing their story then
go through it again. Yeah.Yeah. The thing with Cobweb where it
ended where it's like, well,I could come visit you. It's like
that same thing of like it's alwaysthere in the background. I feel like
Boogeyman actually made good on that stillbeing a threat Cobwebs just like no,
you're not shut up, shut ups, you're on the fucking cage in the

(01:23:58):
ground, Like come on. Iagree, But I think unfortunately what executives
take from these things is like,oh, we need Sophie Thatcher back,
right. That was the success ofthis and the monster I think is a
big success point. It is unlikemost things I've seen and the usage of

(01:24:20):
those arms sticking out of the mouthreminded me of the thing from Ritual a
lot. You know. It's interestingthough, when she figures out the drawing
of it, I'm like, ohshit, it's Sarah. It's the spider
monster again. You know, you'vegot these things on all fours. That
was another similarity between the two,and I'm like, oh my god.
Yeah. I will say the mosteffective visual that they do in this movie

(01:24:43):
is the usage of the creature's eyes. Yeah, something about that just works.
That is very James one. Thatreminded me a lot of the Nun.
We didn't even tell the mon twois out right now, What the
way are we talking about this?We should be talking about the Nun too.
We left that out of the wholeConjuring Universe episode on purpose. Yeah.

(01:25:04):
Boy, I've heard it's better thanthe first one. That's what I've
heard too. That's where I thinksome of those scares come from, is
the Conjuring thing, where it's likethe out of focus scare has become very
popular thanks to James Juan and Ihaven't seen the Newest Insidious, but I'm
sure the Newan City is directed byPatrick Wilson does things like that because he

(01:25:24):
grew up on the horror sets ofJames Juan. But harkens back to Hereditary
two where both of these movies haveplays on things from Hereditary the creeping along
the ceiling thing happens in Cobweb,and then the outline of the mother and
this is like Tony Colette seeing theoutline of her mother and Hereditary and which

(01:25:46):
I don't mind because I like thatas well, like, oh, is
that just a dress over there oris that her? Are those two eyes
or are they reflections off of somesmoke detector? Yeah, right, electron
equipment or something, and they're usedto good effect. I like the I
thing a lot. This movie hada lot of jump scares in it,
and you'll notice we're not complaining aboutthem. They're rather well done. It's

(01:26:10):
a payoff jump scare though, righta horror movie. The jump scares are
two action movies. What like setpieces are like that's a moment that they're
getting you to a thing, onespecific thing that they want you to see.
Rob Savage and Eli Borne, thecinematographer really have a good I mean
again, like they're seeing this wholeworkmanlike thing. I don't agree with that.

(01:26:31):
I think this movie has a fairamount of style to it. Yeah,
I agree. Is it the moststylish horror movie I've ever seen?
No, but it doesn't need tobe like that shot looking under the bed.
There's a few instances of that wherewe're using the camera effectively, and
I wouldn't call it necessarily workmanlike hitherNo. Maybe it's because people are used

(01:26:54):
to him doing the found footage thing. I guess, yeah, because he's
primarily done dash cam and host hostYeah, both found footage, right,
this is a straight narrative. Idon't know if that's maybe the disconnect for
people the anecdotal story of them sendingthe movie to Stephen King and him going
this needs to be put out intheaters. He's right. This movie hit

(01:27:16):
and found its audience pretty easily.This is a well done Friday night monster
movie. The trailers, I couldn'ttell you the difference between this movie the
Slenderman movie, The Empty Man.A lot of those something things of like
something in a house, tormenting acommunity, or even that was that Stephen
King thing that came out on likeHBO Max The Outsider. Yeah, kids

(01:27:41):
disappearing kids getting killed something menacing kids. This movie for me didn't stand out
until you told me, like,oh, can you find these? And
I was like sure. When Idownload a'most like that sounds interesting. And
I think the Stephen King connection isprobably what sets it apart, is because
it is based off of a StephenKing story and none of those other things
are they're based off of, youknow, Slenderman or other disparate things.

(01:28:04):
Stephen King being Stephen King does bringten to twenty to thirty percent more something
to the project than it just beingI'm not saying Cobweb is like this,
but Cobweb, which is ostensibly anoriginal idea. This movie made a lot
of money good and I'm glad thatmovies can still be made like this and
make money in theaters, which isa good thing. There needs to be

(01:28:26):
a place for Friday night movies thatyou can take your date two or you
can go to with your friends andhave a PG thirteen horror experience. It's
a PG thirteen movie that I forgotis PG thirteen and there is one F
bomb and it's used to good effect. I feel like she lights the thing
on fire, fuck you like it'sgood it's good. It's used well.
If you're gonna put it in yourmovie, put it right at the climax

(01:28:47):
when the character finally gets one overon the monster. And it isn't really
a story that needs to be Rrated, what other than graphic violence,
which isn't necessary because it's really aboutbeing scared as opposed to this is a
thing that just kills everybody. Right, It's not a slasher film. It's
stalking you. It wants to makeyou scared. It's based in psychological horror.

(01:29:12):
The idea of a boogeyman. Isaw one of the reviews on IMDb
pretty decent but stupid name, andI'm like, okay, do you know
that? I mean, obviously theycould have called it something else. Stephen
King. Titles get changed, sharesome of them Overdrive for example. You
know, probably wouldn't have done aswell as trucks. Do you have any

(01:29:33):
concept is to what this is basedon? Why would you change the name?
Yeah, the Boogeyman is something thatexists to make kids do good behavior.
It's what you're warned will happen ifyou are bad. We're not sure
why this does what it does.I mean, the movie has this monologue
what it is, right, themovie has the monologue of Rita, the

(01:29:57):
David dos Malkin's character, his wife. You know, I think it's as
old as time, and I thinkit's been around forever. So that's the
screenwriters telling us that's where they're goingwith this, because ninety nine percent of
the time when they say something likethat, that's what they're getting at,
which is fine. I mean,this is again trafficking in Freddy Krueger,
it's trafficking and it Yeah, it'sdream monsters, dream demons, something that

(01:30:21):
exists to torment children more or lessspecifically, they did the movie the disservice
by not having the adults be partof it, because the adults were already
part of it. Yeah, theubiquitousness of the Boogeyman should not be a
stumbling, blocked, dear enjoyment ofthis movie. It should be the universality
of what the Boogeyman is. It'sdifferent than Pennywise. The Boogeyman is amorphous

(01:30:44):
for all of us. They puta face to it here, but that's
not going to be what I imaginemy Boogeyman looks like any more than yours
or anybody else's. And that's thething. I don't know. That seems
like an odd complaint to me.The no kills would be a more understood
complaint, I feel like, whichis fine for me. I don't see
the necessity of that in a storythat's about psychological Stephen King is telling stories

(01:31:08):
about characters, not necessarily the killsthere within go look at most Stephen king
things, right, most of histhings aren't a gorefest. I'm glad we
watched some new horror. I don'twatch enough new horror, primarily because I
feel like every time I watch anew horror movie, the first two acts
are good, in the third actfalls apart. Well, I'm exactly the
same. I haven't found anything totalk about. That's what I mentioned way

(01:31:31):
back when, like, let's findsome new horror to discuss, and I
would watch some and just be like, no, I don't feel like sitting
for two hours and talking about thisone just fine to watch. I'm not
going to sit for two hours andtalk about it. I mean, last
year we did oh my god,we did those Netflix like streaming horror movies,
and I had you helped me outand pick some of them, even

(01:31:54):
the ones that were like good,were still like it wasn't that good?
And that's the think. It's like, what's weird is how low the bar
is set for these streaming movies,almost by their own accord, Like it
seems like they're not interested in reallytelling a story. They're interested in just
getting you to watch the movie thefirst two thirds of it, because like

(01:32:15):
things heard and seen. Oh mygod, that's what I think of when
I think of streaming horror now.It's like that is the example that I
base everything else against, because like, who the fuck made this movie?
And who is this movie even for? Yeah, it's been a lot of
missus and very few hits for melately, so not that I've seen everything.

(01:32:39):
Kind of pay attention to what's gettingtalked about and wait for it to
pop up somewhere and yeah, Imean you never know. Well, was
the biggest horror movie this year?Was it The Boogeyman? No, It's
Evil Dead Rise? Probably Yeah,And that was on my list, Like,
Okay, this could be an episode. I was like, yeah,
I haven't seen it yet. Haveyou seen it? Yeah, it's all

(01:33:01):
right. I like the twenty thirteenreboot better, way better? Any who
to cry? Modern horror for everhere. Maybe we'll find something else between
now and Halloween to do as well. The game to watch anything like,
I mean, even if it's notgreat, it's hard for me to muster

(01:33:23):
the energy to talk about not sogreat stuff for a couple of hours.
That's fair, that's fair. Butto be fair, the likelihood of something
being so amazing is pretty yeah.Unfortunately, Well, when you're not trying
to find a decent horror movie totalk about, what's happening over at the

(01:33:43):
culture Cast. I'm looking for decentmovies to talk now, just talking about
movies, you know. So it'sSeptember right now, So talking about movies
that Father Malone programs. So doingsome sketch comedies, Kentucky Friend movies,
stuff like that. Yeah, theGroove Tube. That's one I still haven't
seen. I need to see thatone. Sure, I mean you find

(01:34:04):
the better parts on YouTube. Ithink that's Sketch comedies are like anthology TV
shows. It's like, well,you don't have to watch all of it.
You just watch like this, thisand this, and you're good.
That's what you can find me doingas talking about movies and other things over
at weirdingwaymedia dot com. What aboutyou, Mark, Well, you can
find me and my two shows overon weirdingwaymedia dot com as well, this

(01:34:27):
one and CambridgeMA Sean, which willbe back in October after a little break
this month. I am currently,just so people know, remastering all of
my old episodes up until twenty twenty, just to get a little better sound
on them from what I was originallydoing when I was first learning all this.
So you may notice old episodes popup for some random reason, and

(01:34:53):
that is why, because I'm tryingto fix the sound on them, maybe
adding some of those culture cast episodesas well that Chris and I did that
I didn't get so I'm going totalk to him about that after this.
So you may see some of those, like the Stephen King one that we've
mentioned a few times on here,pop up in my feed. We did
a lot of those for a whiletogether. Yeah, just realize the other

(01:35:15):
day that I didn't grab all ofthem. So there's a few that I
feel like would make sense to putup, especially a Stephen King one after
today. So other than that,yeah, check out where neweymedia dot com.
There's a ton of different shows onthere, and you'll definitely find something
that you like listening to. Sountil then, have a great day and

(01:35:35):
don't forget anything can happen when youwake up heavy

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