June 25, 2025 • 48 mins
In this enlightening episode of Wake Up With Marci, transformational guide Todd Payne shares his powerful journey of self-discovery and teaches us how to cultivate a deeper relationship with ourselves. From breaking limiting beliefs to embracing emotional healing, Todd opens up about the tools and mindset shifts that lead to lasting transformation. Tune in for an inspiring conversation on self-love, inner alignment, and awakening the life you were truly meant to live.
Connect with Todd Payne
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057762923096
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddapayne/
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
Connect with Todd Payne
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057762923096
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddapayne/
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life transformation and
finding our true selves. Hello all, and welcome back to
Wake Up with Marcy, the show where real conversations lead
to real transformation. I am so glad that you are
(00:23):
here with me today. Today's episode is all about something
we crave and that is connection. But not just surface
level connection. I'm talking about deep, emotional, authentic connection with
ourselves and the people we love. Relationships can be so hard,
but there is hope and it starts with understanding yourself. Yes,
(00:46):
that's what I said. It's not about changing the other person.
It starts with you and that is what we're going
to learn about today. If you are looking to grow
in all relationships in your life, then this show is
for you. Our guest today is someone who's doing truly
transformational work in his space, and that's all about relationships.
(01:08):
Todd Paine is a seasoned relationship coach with over twenty
five years of experience. He's the founder of Connectfully and
the creator of Relationship Renewal Program, a powerful process that
goes far beyond traditional therapy to address the emotional habits
that quietly erode our connections. Todd's journey has taken him
(01:31):
from ministry to coaching, and after a wildfire forced him
and his family to rebuild their lives, he relocated to Portugal,
where he is now and now coaches individuals, couples, and
teams across the globe. Today we'll talk about emotional intelligence
the enneagram, which that one was new to me, so
(01:52):
I'm excited to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
More about that.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And i will tell you I took that test and
I'm a people pleaser. Yeah, yeah, it really didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I already knew that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And and where we can, you know, stop the same
patterns that we have in relationships and start building real
relationships that thrive. So let's dive in. Todd, thank you
so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Thank you so much for having me. It is truly
an honor to be here with you and to be
talking about this wonderful possibility and hope that that is
for everyone who is in a relationship with another human being.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right yeah, because you know, spoiler alert, we're all different.
Even if we can say like ones of people pleaser
and another ones we're different, and then how we perceive
things process.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
We are and and sort of on a cognitive level,
we can all consent to that assertion. But on the
other hand, we also all kind of operate as though
everybody wants what we wanted, thinks what we think, and
values what we value, and are surprised when they behave
differently than we would behave. So that's one key thing
as well, is to not almost right people different, but.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Exactly exactly so.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
For you, though, your journey started with a failure, and
I'd love for you to share more about that and
what was breaking down in your relationships at that time.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, that's a great question, you know. So I did
not grow up in a religious family. I never really
went to church of any kind. I did follow a
girlfriend in college to church, because that's what boys do.
We follow our girlfriends where they want to take us.
But while I was there at church, I had really
what could be described as a religious experience, and out
(03:53):
of that came a calling to serve in the ministry.
But when I told my parents that I was going
to become a minister, my father said, you can't be
a pastor. You're terrible with people, and sure enough after
a year long internship. Several years into the training, my
supervisor filled out my evaluation with the words, Todd has
none of the gifts and skills essential for ministry. The
(04:15):
big failure that set me on my journey was that
I just was so bad with people. I didn't even
know that I was bad with people, And it was
a long hard road to understand how to interact with people,
how to lead people, how to you know, just be
a human being. But that's ultimately what led me to
(04:36):
the work I do now in relationship coaching, because when
you're failing math class, don't go to the kid who
aces without doing the homework for tutoring. Go to the
one who failed last year and this year is passing,
because they're the ones who can walk you through how
to solve the problems. And that's really where I have
ended up.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, well, I think it's it's hard to be in
relationships anyway, and we bring our baggage it. Communication is
really hard. But one of the things that you said
was that your father said, and also the gentleman in
(05:14):
the ministry, is that you weren't good with people. Why
would they say that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I burned bridges I stepped on toes. I remember one
instance in particular where I got into a tug of
war match over the American flag with a World War
two veteran whether it should be on the altar, you know,
in the altar space in the church. So just I
didn't really have a sense of how my words and
(05:43):
actions impacted other people. And like we were talking about earlier,
that awareness of the fact that other people are different,
that was also not really on my radar. I didn't
understand how to read what people were saying or their
actions through their own motivations, through their own understanding of
the world. Was always taking it in pre very personally.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And I've learned so much of this, you know, through
all of my healing and my own training, right to
be able to understand other people's perceptions and not realizing that,
you know, I'm not always right, right, Like we just
because we feel strongly about something doesn't mean somebody else does.
(06:25):
And why do we so inherently believe like we believe
something that someone else must believe that and if they don't,
they are wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Right, you just put your finger. I was going to say,
there's two pieces to that, and that's the second one
is is a false sense of black and white, right
and wrong. You can feel the way you feel about it,
I can feel the way I feel about it, and
we can both be completely valid and have a sort
of emotional integrity and internal logic that makes sense and
(06:56):
is coherent, and yet they don't have to agree. And
that is a very difficult space to mature into, a
sort of holding open multiple perspectives, being comfortable with gray
or with lack of resolution. So that's certainly one part.
But the simpler explanation is that that's just what it
(07:18):
means to grow up. It's just what it means to
be a child in a human body and a teenager
in a human body, and we grow into adulthood and
we really don't even have the capacity to understand what
you and I were talking about until our brains are
twenty years developed. And then we've got to go on
the journey of discovery because it's not intuitive. As I
(07:38):
said before, we kind of graduate childhood with the belief
that everybody's like we are, but it's a process of
discovery to, you know, to learn that they're not, and
how to integrate what we discover about other people of our.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Own experience, right, right, So you yourself went through a huge, huge,
trial and error, you know, learning period. But let's let's
talk about this this enneagram that you found. Share with
(08:12):
us exactly what that is and about the framework and
how did that work for you?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
How did that create the shift for you?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah? Great question. You know, after fifteen years of professional ministry,
I had my feet under me. I understood a lot.
I had, you know, as you said, learned the hard way,
trial and error. Sometimes I call it the rock tumbler.
When I got a sabbatical, a three month sabbatical, and
my bishop said to me, well, this isn't just a
chance to sleep in on Sunday. What are you going
(08:42):
to do to improve yourself to learn and grow over
the sabbatical? And I didn't have a good answer, and
so he said, I think you should learn about the enneagram.
And he sent me to a coach and he gave
me some materials. And what I discovered in the enneagram
was all that all those lessons I had learned the
hard way, all those anecdotes, all those rules, there was
(09:02):
a structure and a framework that I could put them in,
and everything made sense. It was as if I was
sort of looking through the trees, and all of a
sudden was thirty thousand feet up looking at the whole landscape,
and everything really made sense. And I came back from
that sabbatical and I used it with my staff, with
my committees, my volunteers, with my parishioners, and discovered the
(09:23):
power that it holds for transforming the way that we
interact with one another. So that's how it came to
be my main focus. Eventually, I decided I'd had enough
we evenings and weekends, and I retired from the ministry
and now I do this full time. But to answer
your question, what is it. It's an ancient system of
(09:44):
understanding what motivates human beings and it goes back two
and a half thousand years or more. And what separates
it from other systems of personality like Myers Briggs disc
Big five is that it's really less about observable behavior traits.
It's not about what we do out in the world
(10:05):
as it is about the story we tell ourselves, because
we all walk around all day long saying I deserve this,
I was wronged in this way, I should be doing this,
I'm a bad person for doing this, and that inner
narrative we sort of feel like is organic and it's
who we are. But in truth, there are sort of
only nine stories that human beings tell themselves, and there's
(10:27):
survival strategies. They're the ways that we have succeeded in
the world, but we tend to rely on them as
the only tool in our tool belt, and they're not
applicable in every time and place and situation. So it's
really about learning what are my patterns, how do they
serve me, how do they get in my way or
hinder me? And what do I do in those instances?
(10:50):
And then I also use it. You know, you made
an excellent point in the opening about that the change
we can't change our partner, can only change ourselves. But
one thing the enneagram does I haven't found anywhere else
is it reveals our partner to us. It gives us
a backstage view why they perceive the world the way
they do, why they respond in the ways they do.
(11:12):
And when we have this backstage view, when we see
the suffering our partner goes through just being who they
are in the same way we suffer for being who
we are, there's this beautiful empathy that blossoms there's this
space that grows between us that we can now be
in that connection begins and grows.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and let me tell you. I listen, I brought
so much baggage into my relationship with and I'll just
say my husband. Right, we'll just talk about that right now,
because a lot of times our love relationships are i
don't know, priority for some reason.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, but of course I used to be.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
A victim and I had all the pain that I had,
and I was always like, you know, he was wronging me,
and and he had what he brought into the relationship
and how his parents raised him. And I always said
like he had his head in the clouds all the
time because he thought he came from this perfect background,
and hey, good for him. But I also like today
(12:17):
just because of how far I've become, you know, I've
come in my in my healing and learning about emotional
intelligence and these things that you're talking about, and having
empathy for others, and just an understanding that he handles
the way that things that he does, like in our
relationship or in parenting, because that's how he was parented
(12:43):
and so these are things he's learned. It doesn't mean
that we can't talk about them or now that I
you know, I can share, like my perspective, understand his perspective,
and we maybe meet in the middle instead of just
like you're wrong, right, And it does create this like
(13:06):
my relationship with my husband today is completely different. I mean,
of course, you know, nothing's perfect, and we have our moments,
but at least where we even if we act in
a way that is not so nice, we can quickly
turn it around and go, wait a minute, you know,
like that was not a good way to respond. I reacted,
(13:30):
you know. So there is so much power in what
you are talking about and creating this change, and let's
talk about that, the emotional intelligence element of this. Can
you share more about that?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Absolutely? Absolutely. I wanted to just to piggyback quickly on
the last comment that you made and say that it's
often a moment where chains fall off relationships when we
come to the realization that our partner's words and actions
frequently say more about what's going on with our partner
(14:07):
than they do about us, and it depersonalizes and it's
not he's not attacking me, he's just responding the way
his brain responds. And then there's this this this space
that opens up. So I just I think you really
touched on it beautifully. To your question emotional intelligence, I
like to say, the enneagram is the car that we're
(14:29):
going to ride in, but emotional intelligence is the road
we're going to drive down. And as I work with
my with my clients, I tell them that there's four
pillars to emotional intelligence and think of them like staves
of a barrel. Whichever of the staves is the shortest
(14:49):
is where all the water pours out. So we've got
to kind of make sure we build up all of
four of these pillars of emotional intelligence. And they are
self awareness, which the end reveals our patterns to us
so that we don't have to hunt around in the
dark and do trial and error to discover them. Self management,
(15:10):
and the enneagram again gives us pointers by saying, this
is what the path of growth for your type looks like.
Partner awareness or other awareness, and that's where that empathy
comes in where I can see, wow, my wife, this
is how she perceives the world, this is how she
reacts to the world. And then the fourth is interaction
management or relationship management. We can't manage our partner obviously,
(15:34):
but we can be aware in the ways you were
just describing with your husband of how we interact, how
it affects our partner, how to recover from missteps, of
that sort of stuff. So those are the four key
pillars that emotional intelligence can equip us, and the aneagram
can help us along the way.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah. I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That's the car and then the road the journey. I
like that. So let's talk about I mean, you're speaking
my language right now, and I'm one hundred percent behind,
and I don't just believe, I.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Know that it that it works. Yeah, yeah, but let's
talk Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
About like traditional therapy because most times, right like we go,
we have our own therapist, or maybe if we're lucky,
our partner will agree to go to therapy with you,
you know, and what do what you're feeling on traditional therapy?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well, I certainly think therapy has its place, and I
have been in behavioral therapy of various kinds since I
was a child. I endorse it fully as part of
mental health. But coaching is a different thing than therapy,
and I'm not a therapist. I'm a coach, and coaching
is really where are we now, where do we want
(16:51):
to be? And sometimes therapy is where are we now?
How did we get here? And the coaching paradise is
less concerned about how we get here. We still have
to visit that stuff because it informs what our choices
are moving forward, but we don't try to unpack it
and solve it. Instead, we begin with a lay of
(17:12):
the land and a vision of the future and begin
to construct a plan to get us from where we
are to where we want to be.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Right right, So, I've done therapy a lot for myself,
and I think it is important. But I will say,
like a coach, the things that you're doing it just
it helps to create change in your life in a
way that a therapist cannot.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And yeah, at times that's true.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And again I'm a huge fan of therapy. And you've
brought up behavioral therapy. I mean there's all different types
of therapy, right of course, And in relationship therapy that
I had with my husband and it was good because
it allowed him to hear why I am the way
that I am. Yes, and with with abuse, you know,
(18:11):
like when somebody has abuse in their childhood and abandonment
and all of these different things and raised by an
alcoholic mother, and yeah, there's there's a lot of pain
that is there. And when you come from a much
better background, it's it's hard to understand, right, there's so
(18:35):
much more than just the surface. Uh, you know how
things start, right, so you bring in your best self
and then everything starts you start to see, uh you
know through that, you know, because life happens and and
more responsibilities happen and such. So again hand in hand,
(18:58):
I think very very much.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I find a lot of couples when they come to me,
really are interested in a shift that's measurable, that's sustainable,
and often they really want to experience it quickly. And
coaching really can leverage those points. And using the enneagram
gives us, you know, the heart of the matter in
(19:22):
a just a few sessions. So people are feeling the
difference in fourteen days twenty one days, sometimes feeling like
they have to go months of therapy to really dig
in and get behind what's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, in the way that we are today, we need
that quick quick fit.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yeah, it is, it is. It's the social media revolution,
isn't it? Six seconds or less?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So let's talk about your program. I mean you've touched
on it. Collective connect, let's see connect phalise right, connectfullies,
relationship renewal. Yes, yes, tell us tell us a little bit,
like what's the process and what all do you share
within your program.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That's a great question, thank you. It's a sixteen week program,
sort of a boot camp. A lot of the folks
I work with continue with me after that sixteen weeks,
but the nature changes, and in that sixteen weeks we
do learning about what the enneagram is and how it
understands people, which gives us some common language and sort
(20:28):
of neutral ground to talk about one another. In the enneagram,
there are nine personality types and we simply use numbers.
So instead of saying about my wife, I don't like
when you x y Z, I can say, you know,
it's a tendency of type two. That's my wife's type.
It's a tendency of type two to do these things
which I don't know how to handle, and now I'm
not attacking her. Yes, it creates that neutral ground, so
(20:52):
we learn about that. Oh yeah, and then we do
a deep dive. You So I meet with the couple together,
but I also meet one on one with each partner
and we do a deep dive into your type and
your partner and I do a deep dive into their type.
And then we come back together and we talk about
who we are and why and share with our partner
and learn and insight. Then we split up again and
(21:13):
I do a deep dive with you about your partner,
with your partner about you, so that we can really
understand that behind the stage or behind the curtain view
and learn tips and tricks. How do I speak to
a type two so that they hear me when I'm
listening to a type two? What should I be listening for.
Then that brings us to about the halfway point in
(21:34):
the program, And now we've got the structure in place,
the language in place. We've been doing exercises to build
trust and safety, emotional safety with one another. Now we
begin to address the issues that really brought you to
me to begin with, and in a bespoke fashion. Knowing
what your type is, knowing what your partner's type is,
(21:54):
knowing what those interactions look like, and now we can
begin to sort of shift the the weight around, have
important conversations, and that's where the real blossoming the transformation
can take place. Is everything solved at the end of
sixteen weeks by no stretch. But are you now equipped
with confidence, with tools, with a little bit of experience
(22:18):
under your belt to handle the conversations that are to come. Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah. So let's what about somebody that's just they're exhausted,
they think that they're at the end of their relationship,
that they don't see a way out. Is there a
way out? Is there a way to change that?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I would love to say always, forever, of course there is.
But I have also been a partner to conscious uncouplings,
which is sometimes the healthiest thing for everyone involved. But
I would like to say that hope is probably the
most powerful human motivator. Fear there is a strong one,
(23:01):
and a lot of us get trapped in cycles of
fear or respond out of fear. But hope is stronger
even still than fear, and even for those who are exhausted,
who don't see a way out, I like to lift
up that we can only think of the options that
we can think of. One of the reasons we go
to a coach or a guide is because they have
(23:23):
a different perspective. They can bring a different language or
a different set of tools, and those can often make
the difference because they're new, because they're alternative, they come
at things in a different way. So I like to
lift up that if you haven't done this particular way
of seeing yourself and your partner, that is the enneagram,
(23:44):
if you haven't done work in emotional intelligence, then all
hope is not lost. There is plenty of things that
we can still be doing to save You know what
is meaningful, and you know deep and exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And I'm going to go back to before I started
my work on myself, right, because the only thing we
can change is ourselves.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Is I did not think I wanted to be married
to my husband anymore, and we now are at the
most beautiful place and I'm in the best relationship, and
I never thought that that would be possible. So I'm
telling you.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That it is. But there is work involved.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You've got to get educated, you've got to create change
within yourself, and you've got to change how you respond
and understand your partner.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
So and I like to say that we all human
beings grow we as we live. That's just how we
are in the world. So the choice as a relationship
is are we going to grow together or are we
going to grow apart?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And that's okay to grow Yeah, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But with intentionality, with awareness and intentionality, we can grow
together and have that beautiful vision you've just painted that choice.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, So can you give us like two tools that
maybe couples somebody's out there listening right now, that could
help maybe to interrupt some of their unhelpful patterns with
their partners.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Sure. The first tool I give to everybody in my
first session when we get together. It's a very simple tool.
It's just a horizontal line. Just think of a horizontal
line in your mind. At any point in time, every
human being is either above the line or below the line.
When we're above the line, we're curious, we're open, we're
willing to question our beliefs, we're playful. When we're below
(25:38):
the line, we're committed to being right. We are defensive,
we're closed off. It is the default nature of the
human brain to be below the line. It has evolved
as a threat detection system, So being on alert is
the way the brain is. But it's tough to be
in dialogue. It's tough to have meaningful connection. It's tough
to make positive change when we're below the line. So
(25:58):
a simple tool I teach out of the gate is
just to ask your partner and to ask yourself, am
I above the line or am I below the line?
You're not a good person or a bad person for
being in one place or the other. It's not right
or wrong. But what it does do is it informs
whether or not this is the right time to have
a conversation, or this is the right time to reach
out and make a connection or not. And it spares
(26:19):
a lot of pain and heartache, a lot of that
personal insult from your partner snapping at you or whatever.
Just do a quick check in with yourself and with
your partner. So that's that's the first tool I would recommend.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And yeah, so I asked for two, Can we have
another one?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
No, I know you did the other one. I'm just
going to sort of touch on briefly. It's a little
bit more complicated, but I think people who can appreciate
where it's coming from. It's about slowing down the process
of conversation. And I call it the three time rule.
And what we do is that in the first time
I come to you and I say, Marci, I've been
thinking about this. Are you in a place that you
(26:54):
can hear my thoughts and your job is just to
hold the space open and ask curious or clarifying questions
and let me share where I'm at. Then we allow
at least twenty four hours to pass before we have
the second time, and the second time the roles are reversed.
You're going to come to me and say, Todd, I
thought about what you said, and here's where I'm at.
I'm going to hold the space open with only curious
(27:15):
or clarifying questions and allow you to really share. Then
twenty four more hours past we come to the third time,
and now we've both had a chance to be heard
in full, We've both had a chance to reflect them
what the other said. Now we can really enter into
meaningful conversation that isn't reactive. And I find that just
slowing the process down intentionally in those ways, being sure
(27:37):
that everybody gets hurt, can really make that third conversation
quite productive.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, that sounds amazing. You have to make a lot
of changes, right To do something like that and hold.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That space open requires some skills and some practice.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, exactly, you got to take a little work on that.
So let's just say somebody's not at that place yet.
What are just some easy little things like they could
do to respond instead of react? Right, Like you get
the email that ticks you off. You know somebody has
(28:16):
said something that you've taken in a certain way, even
if they maybe didn't intend it that way.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Or your kid pisses you off, Like, what.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Can you do? So a tiny little three steps that
I invite folks into I call it rd R, which
is recognized disengage redirect. The first thing that I invite
everybody to do is to become more in tune with
our bodies. Our hearts are always looking to the past
(28:50):
and how things were and how they might have been.
Our brains are always looking at the future but the
threat and concern and worry. But our physical body is
always in the present. I like to say, you don't
have to pee next week, you weren't hungry yesterday. So
we learn all of this great information about what's going
on with us from our bodies. So we have to
first learn what does being ticked off do to me?
(29:13):
Do I clench my job, I do I palms get sweaty?
Do our voice get loud? So that we can recognize
when we're triggered, then we want to disengage, take a walk,
do a breathing meditation, write a note, somehow get yourself
out of that situation, because rarely is it as urgent
as it seems. It doesn't have to be resolved in
this minute. We can just break and allow our system
(29:35):
to reset, the nervous system. You know that those chemicals
that go through our mind because we get worked up,
they have a half life, and if we can just
breathe through it, we will return to a better state.
And then redirect, which is pick a different way to
approach the issue that you're struggling with now that you're
in a new space, a.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Different way to react and approach it. But another one
that was a big one for me to learn was
when you approach a conversation.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yes, that's the above line below the line that's everything?
When when is everything?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Because it's like if somebody is not in a good headspace,
so they're busy or frantic, like and then you're you're
trying to like load them up with something that you
want to talk about, it's not going to go well.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I know, I'm saying to my teenage children all the time.
Timing Timing bad? Can I have timing? You're asking it
the wrong time?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And but I think that that's just you know, somebody
has this guttural feeling all of a sudden and then
they're just like right at it and and yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
You know a lot of the work that I do
with folks is around emotional resilience, which is the capacity
to sit with your negative feelings and not be controlled
or driven by them. And that's a big part of
the relationship getting better is not you know, being triggered
so so quickly and knowing when I'm triggered, Okay, this
(31:09):
is how I change that rather than those patterns that
happen when I respond reactively and then you respond reactively.
And that's that's what we're trying to interrupt.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So we've talked about I feel like we've talked a
lot about relationships, right and changing that. But you know,
one of the things that I did bring up, it's
about changing yourself. How can we even become somewhat self
aware that, like I have someone in my life, they
can't keep a job, they can't stay in a relationship,
(31:42):
and it's everyone else's fault. When do you become aware, like,
what's the one thing not changing?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Is the common denominator?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
The common denominator? Right, the common denominator? And and so
like like even with me and trying to change my life,
I kept changing and moving and doing all these different things,
and things would fall apart, and then finally I would
be like, what's the one thing I'm always taking with me?
It's never changing me, you know, so that's why it's changing. Yeah, yeah,
(32:17):
So how can we start to become self aware? Like
is there a way for us to start, you know,
like having some sort of questions.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
We ask ourselves for thought process or.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Mean, I know not everybody's going to do it, but
is there a way?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Well? Yeah, And I'll begin by saying I'm a firm
believer when the teacher, When the student is ready, the
teacher appears. So, you know, curiosity about maybe this podcast,
this conversation, that might be the sign that you're like, okay,
maybe I'm ready to learn some more. So just be
open to little curiosities. But to answer your question about
(32:55):
how that's really where the enneagram comes in, I just
encourage people from taking tests, because when we take an
anagram test, then it becomes about how accurate the report
is or how accurate the profile is. When we learn
about the system, then what we do is we find
ourselves in it, and it almost becomes an act of confession.
(33:17):
I am a Type five. That means these wonderful things,
but it also means this shadow side, I own it.
One of the ways that I discovered that I am
a Type five is that as I was reading one
of the Enneagram books, there was a line in print
that I swear. As I read it, I thought to myself,
I have never told anybody this, and there it is
in print. So clearly this thing knows how I function,
(33:41):
how my brain works. And it was get feels just
talking about it. But those are the moments that bring
self awareness about. But it starts with a curiosity and
the desire, and then this system will give you tools
and finger holds and footholds to you know, crack that
that shell and emerge with the new self awareness.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So when you started doing this work and seeing these changes,
and you're a type five, which I guess if you
do this work, you'll figure out what that is. How
many times are there nine?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
You said nine?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Nine?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
That any means nine in Greek.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh I got you, I got you?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Okay, thank you?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But like when you when you start figuring out about
yourself and then you start figuring out about your partner,
Like what.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Can you discover through that if you if you are
even adaptable or is like, are there more adaptable people
for each other that you could learn that through the enneagram?
Or is it just how Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, everybody has a difficult road to hope. One of
the interesting things about the enneagram is that it paints
a picture of of maturity. We know what an unhealthy
immature type five looks like. We know what an average
type five looks like. We know what a self actualized
type five looks like. And that's part of how it
helps you grow, is it shows you the arc, what's next,
where to go, how to get there. But I'll share
(35:15):
a quick story. So as a type five, I'm a
head center type I take the world in as data.
Everything must be tested and proved. My wife is a
heart center type type two. Everything is about relationship. Everything
is about connection. And as we're raising our children when
they were very little, and she has a degree in
human development. By the way she says this is the
better way to parent. This is the better way for
us to handle this particular situation. And I said, no, no, no,
(35:39):
I know better. But why why didn't I listen to
I don't know, But because of the enneagram? She said, Ah,
my husband takes things in through data. So she found
an article in psychology today and she sent it to me.
And when I saw the data, when I read it
and processed it that way, I was like, oh, thank
you for sending me that. And now I'm totally on
board with the things that she wants to do. So
(36:00):
she just had to talk to me in a different
way rather than saying, hey, trust me, because I don't
do things in that way. I do things with that
she does things in relationships. So learning each other's vocab,
learning each other's points of of you know, importance or
priority is really a key to using the enneagram and relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So what if you have a lot of trauma from your.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Past and everything difficult, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, because it's not just about discovering like this is
how I process information. I mean, you do, but like
in a yeah, in a very well I I believe
in a in a even a more warp warped way,
because like your brain is has changed, and so how
(36:54):
do we change our brains? Because you know, I had
to rewire my brain and there were many things that
I had to do.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
It's one of the beautiful things about the human brain
that we are now discovering that the neuroplasticity lasts all
the way to the end, and it seems like perhaps
even beyond the end somehow. So there is never a
point where we can say, well, I'm too old, my
brain won't do new things. But as I understand it,
neuropathways are like ski runs. The more we go down them,
(37:23):
the more compacted the snow gets, the faster the terms become.
And doing things in new ways is like cutting through
fresh snow. It's hard to do, it's physically exhausting. And
that's the case that when we want change, the probably
the most important ingredient is being gracious with ourselves, is
(37:45):
being patient and forgiving and recognizing this is not a
linear journey from A to B, two, C, T D.
This is a journey of fits and starts. This is
a journey of successes and setbacks. And when we are
patient and gracious with ourselves, then we have the fertile
ground to do the work that that lay ahead and
it and it takes years. Took me years. I'm sure
(38:07):
it took your you years too. But that doesn't mean
there aren't things we can get going, get going on
right away to begin to feel some relief.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Do you think that within a job? I was just
thinking about. You know, someone in a job and they're
really unhappy in their job and they say they can't
get along with their boss right and again, you know
this is I think about it today, like as someone
in a role that is over let's say a department.
(38:42):
You know, they're answering to the higher ups and they
have a lot of stress to perform, and someone under
them may not understand what what their perspective or why
they are digually the way that they are. Not saying
that they shouldn't manage better, because that's also a skill
learning how to mean. Yeah, And there's a lot of
(39:05):
people out there managing people that are not good. I
at one time was one of those people because I
was I was thrown into a job that I had
no idea what I was doing and I had to
learn everything, and I was an utter nightmare to other people.
So I own it. I own it. But so you
(39:26):
think you think that you you're so unhappy in your job,
right and I hate my boss, and this is that, Like,
what can we do because you're not you're not going
to therapy with your boss. What can you do to
try to shift things to try to help it to
be better for you in a way, like to rethink it,
(39:48):
not take it personally, and and and maybe if you
can make some shifts for yourself, maybe the job wouldn't
be as bad as you think it is.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, you know, there's a longitudinal study that Harvard has done.
I think it goes back maybe seventy years now about
what is the what makes people happy? And what they've
discovered is the quality of our relationships is the number
one indicator of our happiness. So you really put your
finger right on it. I think there's a couple of
things I would lift up first and foremost is we tend,
I think, in our modern culture to put a lot
(40:21):
of eggs in one basket. And there's a good science
that shows the more areas that we have social connections
than when they go south in one of those areas,
we are more resilient. So having a club or a
hobby that you know you meet with people, or a
trivia team or a train building club, whatever, I don't know,
(40:43):
having your family, being in a church community or in
a choir or in some sort. And then there's work.
When all we do is work. When I see my
wife for a couple of hour minutes in a day
and I'm with my boss for ten hours, five days
a week, then it like it's my everything, and it
can really dampen my whole life. So diversify, almost like
(41:05):
a financial advice. Diversify is one of the ways that
we can find some of that joy and happiness. The
other is that when we do understand, like maybe what
our boss's Aneagram type might be, it really can reveal
why they do things the way they do. And again
it depersonalizes it and it can give you some tools.
(41:26):
Like you know, if your boss happens to be an eight,
the eights value strength, so when you talk to him,
talk to him strong instead of being polite and kind.
Or maybe he's a four, any values creativity. All right, well,
let's come to him with unique things. Like we can
sort of meet people where they're at by recognizing what
they value, what moves them what motivates them.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So if you can't do that, though, is there something
like can you do take the enneagram yourself and then
like try to make changes for yourself so you can
help yourself nesturely, it's sort of.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
It has large categories and they get ever more refined.
So even if we don't know what our boss or
our partner or our neighbor's type is, we can begin
with large scale questions like heart center, head center, body center,
and we try different tactics and see and then and
then narrow and then see and then narrow. So for me,
(42:22):
at least, this is how I do it. But again,
I've been studying the system for a while. But when
you have the system in hand, you you can begin
to spot it. You recognize people will behave in these ways.
There's there's only really truly, it's archetypal, you know what
I mean. So you're looking for archetypes, and when you
have an understanding of them, you can begin to spot them.
(42:45):
You know, Yeah, I spot people pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So oh okay, So if you if you kind of
understand the whole program or that that formula in the
different types of the system, you can actually manage how
you'll identify, like maybe who somebody is like they're not,
so this is how maybe I should manage that personally.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I like to think about it like musical scales. If
I don't know if you know much about music, but
there's A and A sharp and B C and C sharp.
So if you think about the personality types, like each
of us being a different key, then what I do
is I play in your key. So I might talk
to my child who's a six in one way, and
(43:29):
then my wife, who's a two in another way. You
get same message, same content, but played in a different
key so that they heard me. And that's what you
begin to recognize is the key that the other person
is playing in. And I can talk to you for
an hour and at the end of that, I'm like, oh,
I know you're playing in the key of three, like
that's who you are, and that's fine, that's great. I
(43:51):
don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, I like what you're saying, and I really want
people to hear this outside to everyone listening, is that
remember when parenting our children, you can't parent them the same.
They're not no.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, and they don't necessarily grasp that.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, and it's hard and it's just And I also
like and this is for me and I God, hopefully
no one hates me. But I can't stand it when
somebody says, well I had to do it this way
when I was ten, like we are like in a
different iteration. Everything's changed. We have to evolve, and you
(44:37):
know it's it's varies six years between my oldest and
my youngest.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I've had to evolve as a parent as the world
has changed. And they'll say, why did my sister get
something I didn't get? And said, well, you and your
sister are different people. You're going to be parented differently.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, and and and I like what you said. Also,
like finding things that you enjoy that's so important. Don't
live for somebody else else. And because I did that myself,
I got lost in everybody else. And because I didn't
know who I was. I mean, that was part of
my trauma. And I had lost myself. And you know,
(45:11):
I was always trying to find happiness and validation through
other people. And it's really when I found the love
and connection with myself, my inner self, like going within
instead of outside of myself. That's so much changed. But
I'm just fascinated because it's just, you know, there's I
just feel.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Like it's hard to have good relationships. It's hard to communicate,
it's hard to understand other people, and just even in
society and politically, everything's so divided instead of like just understanding,
we can have different ideology and you know, just different
(45:52):
ways of thinking. So it's it's just so important to
have these conversations. So, you know, hopefully, like you said,
whenever that student is ready to be taught, the teacher
is there, right, And you can't make anyone listener be ready.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
They have to be ready for themselves, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So, But it only takes just a desire, that's it.
Any skill, doesn't take any experience, doesn't take any readiness,
just desire.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
All right.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So for those that are ready to dive in right now,
So where can they find you and learn more?
Speaker 3 (46:27):
So, as you've mentioned, my company I found it is
called connect fully, and we live in a world where
you can spell things however you like. So it's spelled
with the ko at k O n n e z
t f u l l Y. You can reach me
connectfully dot com. You just shoot me an email Todd
at connectually dot com. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram.
(46:48):
You'll find me all over. But I like to hear
from people I'm learning. I certainly don't have a corner
on knowledge, and I find every couple brings unique stories
of success and challenge and how they've overcome it. So
I would love to hear where people are at, what
where their wins are, where their struggles are, So you
reach out to me connectfully.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Dot com Connectfully.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I made that a little difficult for myself earlier.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
But thank you all so much for joining us today,
and thank you Todd for joining Wake Up with Marcy.
And this episode has brought you clarity, hope, or a
new perspective. It would means so much of you could
share it to somebody that needs it, a friend, a partner,
a family member, anyone that needs this message, because here's
(47:36):
the truth. Working on relationships doesn't mean that it's broken.
It means that you love yourself that relationship, that person
enough to grow, and often that growth begins with yourself.
So thank you again Todd for coming on the show,
thank you for having me, and thank you all for listening,
(47:59):
why sharing this episode and helping to spread the message
to others. That may need it. You never know whose
life you're going to change just by pressing that share button,
so thank you again for joining me today. It is
time to wake up to your worth because your past
doesn't define you. You are not alone, and it's never
(48:22):
too late to become who you are meant to be.
So I'll see you next time on Wake Up with
Marcy
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life transformation and
finding our true selves. Hello all, and welcome back to
Wake Up with Marcy, the show where real conversations lead
to real transformation. I am so glad that you are
(00:23):
here with me today. Today's episode is all about something
we crave and that is connection. But not just surface
level connection. I'm talking about deep, emotional, authentic connection with
ourselves and the people we love. Relationships can be so hard,
but there is hope and it starts with understanding yourself. Yes,
(00:46):
that's what I said. It's not about changing the other person.
It starts with you and that is what we're going
to learn about today. If you are looking to grow
in all relationships in your life, then this show is
for you. Our guest today is someone who's doing truly
transformational work in his space, and that's all about relationships.
(01:08):
Todd Paine is a seasoned relationship coach with over twenty
five years of experience. He's the founder of Connectfully and
the creator of Relationship Renewal Program, a powerful process that
goes far beyond traditional therapy to address the emotional habits
that quietly erode our connections. Todd's journey has taken him
(01:31):
from ministry to coaching, and after a wildfire forced him
and his family to rebuild their lives, he relocated to Portugal,
where he is now and now coaches individuals, couples, and
teams across the globe. Today we'll talk about emotional intelligence
the enneagram, which that one was new to me, so
(01:52):
I'm excited to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
More about that.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And i will tell you I took that test and
I'm a people pleaser. Yeah, yeah, it really didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I already knew that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And and where we can, you know, stop the same
patterns that we have in relationships and start building real
relationships that thrive. So let's dive in. Todd, thank you
so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Thank you so much for having me. It is truly
an honor to be here with you and to be
talking about this wonderful possibility and hope that that is
for everyone who is in a relationship with another human being.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right yeah, because you know, spoiler alert, we're all different.
Even if we can say like ones of people pleaser
and another ones we're different, and then how we perceive
things process.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
We are and and sort of on a cognitive level,
we can all consent to that assertion. But on the
other hand, we also all kind of operate as though
everybody wants what we wanted, thinks what we think, and
values what we value, and are surprised when they behave
differently than we would behave. So that's one key thing
as well, is to not almost right people different, but.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Exactly exactly so.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
For you, though, your journey started with a failure, and
I'd love for you to share more about that and
what was breaking down in your relationships at that time.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, that's a great question, you know. So I did
not grow up in a religious family. I never really
went to church of any kind. I did follow a
girlfriend in college to church, because that's what boys do.
We follow our girlfriends where they want to take us.
But while I was there at church, I had really
what could be described as a religious experience, and out
(03:53):
of that came a calling to serve in the ministry.
But when I told my parents that I was going
to become a minister, my father said, you can't be
a pastor. You're terrible with people, and sure enough after
a year long internship. Several years into the training, my
supervisor filled out my evaluation with the words, Todd has
none of the gifts and skills essential for ministry. The
(04:15):
big failure that set me on my journey was that
I just was so bad with people. I didn't even
know that I was bad with people, And it was
a long hard road to understand how to interact with people,
how to lead people, how to you know, just be
a human being. But that's ultimately what led me to
(04:36):
the work I do now in relationship coaching, because when
you're failing math class, don't go to the kid who
aces without doing the homework for tutoring. Go to the
one who failed last year and this year is passing,
because they're the ones who can walk you through how
to solve the problems. And that's really where I have
ended up.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, well, I think it's it's hard to be in
relationships anyway, and we bring our baggage it. Communication is
really hard. But one of the things that you said
was that your father said, and also the gentleman in
(05:14):
the ministry, is that you weren't good with people. Why
would they say that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I burned bridges I stepped on toes. I remember one
instance in particular where I got into a tug of
war match over the American flag with a World War
two veteran whether it should be on the altar, you know,
in the altar space in the church. So just I
didn't really have a sense of how my words and
(05:43):
actions impacted other people. And like we were talking about earlier,
that awareness of the fact that other people are different,
that was also not really on my radar. I didn't
understand how to read what people were saying or their
actions through their own motivations, through their own understanding of
the world. Was always taking it in pre very personally.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And I've learned so much of this, you know, through
all of my healing and my own training, right to
be able to understand other people's perceptions and not realizing that,
you know, I'm not always right, right, Like we just
because we feel strongly about something doesn't mean somebody else does.
(06:25):
And why do we so inherently believe like we believe
something that someone else must believe that and if they don't,
they are wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Right, you just put your finger. I was going to say,
there's two pieces to that, and that's the second one
is is a false sense of black and white, right
and wrong. You can feel the way you feel about it,
I can feel the way I feel about it, and
we can both be completely valid and have a sort
of emotional integrity and internal logic that makes sense and
(06:56):
is coherent, and yet they don't have to agree. And
that is a very difficult space to mature into, a
sort of holding open multiple perspectives, being comfortable with gray
or with lack of resolution. So that's certainly one part.
But the simpler explanation is that that's just what it
(07:18):
means to grow up. It's just what it means to
be a child in a human body and a teenager
in a human body, and we grow into adulthood and
we really don't even have the capacity to understand what
you and I were talking about until our brains are
twenty years developed. And then we've got to go on
the journey of discovery because it's not intuitive. As I
(07:38):
said before, we kind of graduate childhood with the belief
that everybody's like we are, but it's a process of
discovery to, you know, to learn that they're not, and
how to integrate what we discover about other people of our.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Own experience, right, right, So you yourself went through a huge, huge,
trial and error, you know, learning period. But let's let's
talk about this this enneagram that you found. Share with
(08:12):
us exactly what that is and about the framework and
how did that work for you?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
How did that create the shift for you?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah? Great question. You know, after fifteen years of professional ministry,
I had my feet under me. I understood a lot.
I had, you know, as you said, learned the hard way,
trial and error. Sometimes I call it the rock tumbler.
When I got a sabbatical, a three month sabbatical, and
my bishop said to me, well, this isn't just a
chance to sleep in on Sunday. What are you going
(08:42):
to do to improve yourself to learn and grow over
the sabbatical? And I didn't have a good answer, and
so he said, I think you should learn about the enneagram.
And he sent me to a coach and he gave
me some materials. And what I discovered in the enneagram
was all that all those lessons I had learned the
hard way, all those anecdotes, all those rules, there was
(09:02):
a structure and a framework that I could put them in,
and everything made sense. It was as if I was
sort of looking through the trees, and all of a
sudden was thirty thousand feet up looking at the whole landscape,
and everything really made sense. And I came back from
that sabbatical and I used it with my staff, with
my committees, my volunteers, with my parishioners, and discovered the
(09:23):
power that it holds for transforming the way that we
interact with one another. So that's how it came to
be my main focus. Eventually, I decided I'd had enough
we evenings and weekends, and I retired from the ministry
and now I do this full time. But to answer
your question, what is it. It's an ancient system of
(09:44):
understanding what motivates human beings and it goes back two
and a half thousand years or more. And what separates
it from other systems of personality like Myers Briggs disc
Big five is that it's really less about observable behavior traits.
It's not about what we do out in the world
(10:05):
as it is about the story we tell ourselves, because
we all walk around all day long saying I deserve this,
I was wronged in this way, I should be doing this,
I'm a bad person for doing this, and that inner
narrative we sort of feel like is organic and it's
who we are. But in truth, there are sort of
only nine stories that human beings tell themselves, and there's
(10:27):
survival strategies. They're the ways that we have succeeded in
the world, but we tend to rely on them as
the only tool in our tool belt, and they're not
applicable in every time and place and situation. So it's
really about learning what are my patterns, how do they
serve me, how do they get in my way or
hinder me? And what do I do in those instances?
(10:50):
And then I also use it. You know, you made
an excellent point in the opening about that the change
we can't change our partner, can only change ourselves. But
one thing the enneagram does I haven't found anywhere else
is it reveals our partner to us. It gives us
a backstage view why they perceive the world the way
they do, why they respond in the ways they do.
(11:12):
And when we have this backstage view, when we see
the suffering our partner goes through just being who they
are in the same way we suffer for being who
we are, there's this beautiful empathy that blossoms there's this
space that grows between us that we can now be
in that connection begins and grows.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and let me tell you. I listen, I brought
so much baggage into my relationship with and I'll just
say my husband. Right, we'll just talk about that right now,
because a lot of times our love relationships are i
don't know, priority for some reason.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, but of course I used to be.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
A victim and I had all the pain that I had,
and I was always like, you know, he was wronging me,
and and he had what he brought into the relationship
and how his parents raised him. And I always said
like he had his head in the clouds all the
time because he thought he came from this perfect background,
and hey, good for him. But I also like today
(12:17):
just because of how far I've become, you know, I've
come in my in my healing and learning about emotional
intelligence and these things that you're talking about, and having
empathy for others, and just an understanding that he handles
the way that things that he does, like in our
relationship or in parenting, because that's how he was parented
(12:43):
and so these are things he's learned. It doesn't mean
that we can't talk about them or now that I
you know, I can share, like my perspective, understand his perspective,
and we maybe meet in the middle instead of just
like you're wrong, right, And it does create this like
(13:06):
my relationship with my husband today is completely different. I mean,
of course, you know, nothing's perfect, and we have our moments,
but at least where we even if we act in
a way that is not so nice, we can quickly
turn it around and go, wait a minute, you know,
like that was not a good way to respond. I reacted,
(13:30):
you know. So there is so much power in what
you are talking about and creating this change, and let's
talk about that, the emotional intelligence element of this. Can
you share more about that?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Absolutely? Absolutely. I wanted to just to piggyback quickly on
the last comment that you made and say that it's
often a moment where chains fall off relationships when we
come to the realization that our partner's words and actions
frequently say more about what's going on with our partner
(14:07):
than they do about us, and it depersonalizes and it's
not he's not attacking me, he's just responding the way
his brain responds. And then there's this this this space
that opens up. So I just I think you really
touched on it beautifully. To your question emotional intelligence, I
like to say, the enneagram is the car that we're
(14:29):
going to ride in, but emotional intelligence is the road
we're going to drive down. And as I work with
my with my clients, I tell them that there's four
pillars to emotional intelligence and think of them like staves
of a barrel. Whichever of the staves is the shortest
(14:49):
is where all the water pours out. So we've got
to kind of make sure we build up all of
four of these pillars of emotional intelligence. And they are
self awareness, which the end reveals our patterns to us
so that we don't have to hunt around in the
dark and do trial and error to discover them. Self management,
(15:10):
and the enneagram again gives us pointers by saying, this
is what the path of growth for your type looks like.
Partner awareness or other awareness, and that's where that empathy
comes in where I can see, wow, my wife, this
is how she perceives the world, this is how she
reacts to the world. And then the fourth is interaction
management or relationship management. We can't manage our partner obviously,
(15:34):
but we can be aware in the ways you were
just describing with your husband of how we interact, how
it affects our partner, how to recover from missteps, of
that sort of stuff. So those are the four key
pillars that emotional intelligence can equip us, and the aneagram
can help us along the way.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah. I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That's the car and then the road the journey. I
like that. So let's talk about I mean, you're speaking
my language right now, and I'm one hundred percent behind,
and I don't just believe, I.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Know that it that it works. Yeah, yeah, but let's
talk Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
About like traditional therapy because most times, right like we go,
we have our own therapist, or maybe if we're lucky,
our partner will agree to go to therapy with you,
you know, and what do what you're feeling on traditional therapy?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well, I certainly think therapy has its place, and I
have been in behavioral therapy of various kinds since I
was a child. I endorse it fully as part of
mental health. But coaching is a different thing than therapy,
and I'm not a therapist. I'm a coach, and coaching
is really where are we now, where do we want
(16:51):
to be? And sometimes therapy is where are we now?
How did we get here? And the coaching paradise is
less concerned about how we get here. We still have
to visit that stuff because it informs what our choices
are moving forward, but we don't try to unpack it
and solve it. Instead, we begin with a lay of
(17:12):
the land and a vision of the future and begin
to construct a plan to get us from where we
are to where we want to be.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Right right, So, I've done therapy a lot for myself,
and I think it is important. But I will say,
like a coach, the things that you're doing it just
it helps to create change in your life in a
way that a therapist cannot.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And yeah, at times that's true.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And again I'm a huge fan of therapy. And you've
brought up behavioral therapy. I mean there's all different types
of therapy, right of course, And in relationship therapy that
I had with my husband and it was good because
it allowed him to hear why I am the way
that I am. Yes, and with with abuse, you know,
(18:11):
like when somebody has abuse in their childhood and abandonment
and all of these different things and raised by an
alcoholic mother, and yeah, there's there's a lot of pain
that is there. And when you come from a much
better background, it's it's hard to understand, right, there's so
(18:35):
much more than just the surface. Uh, you know how
things start, right, so you bring in your best self
and then everything starts you start to see, uh you
know through that, you know, because life happens and and
more responsibilities happen and such. So again hand in hand,
(18:58):
I think very very much.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I find a lot of couples when they come to me,
really are interested in a shift that's measurable, that's sustainable,
and often they really want to experience it quickly. And
coaching really can leverage those points. And using the enneagram
gives us, you know, the heart of the matter in
(19:22):
a just a few sessions. So people are feeling the
difference in fourteen days twenty one days, sometimes feeling like
they have to go months of therapy to really dig
in and get behind what's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, in the way that we are today, we need
that quick quick fit.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yeah, it is, it is. It's the social media revolution,
isn't it? Six seconds or less?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So let's talk about your program. I mean you've touched
on it. Collective connect, let's see connect phalise right, connectfullies,
relationship renewal. Yes, yes, tell us tell us a little bit,
like what's the process and what all do you share
within your program.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That's a great question, thank you. It's a sixteen week program,
sort of a boot camp. A lot of the folks
I work with continue with me after that sixteen weeks,
but the nature changes, and in that sixteen weeks we
do learning about what the enneagram is and how it
understands people, which gives us some common language and sort
(20:28):
of neutral ground to talk about one another. In the enneagram,
there are nine personality types and we simply use numbers.
So instead of saying about my wife, I don't like
when you x y Z, I can say, you know,
it's a tendency of type two. That's my wife's type.
It's a tendency of type two to do these things
which I don't know how to handle, and now I'm
not attacking her. Yes, it creates that neutral ground, so
(20:52):
we learn about that. Oh yeah, and then we do
a deep dive. You So I meet with the couple together,
but I also meet one on one with each partner
and we do a deep dive into your type and
your partner and I do a deep dive into their type.
And then we come back together and we talk about
who we are and why and share with our partner
and learn and insight. Then we split up again and
(21:13):
I do a deep dive with you about your partner,
with your partner about you, so that we can really
understand that behind the stage or behind the curtain view
and learn tips and tricks. How do I speak to
a type two so that they hear me when I'm
listening to a type two? What should I be listening for.
Then that brings us to about the halfway point in
(21:34):
the program, And now we've got the structure in place,
the language in place. We've been doing exercises to build
trust and safety, emotional safety with one another. Now we
begin to address the issues that really brought you to
me to begin with, and in a bespoke fashion. Knowing
what your type is, knowing what your partner's type is,
(21:54):
knowing what those interactions look like, and now we can
begin to sort of shift the the weight around, have
important conversations, and that's where the real blossoming the transformation
can take place. Is everything solved at the end of
sixteen weeks by no stretch. But are you now equipped
with confidence, with tools, with a little bit of experience
(22:18):
under your belt to handle the conversations that are to come. Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah. So let's what about somebody that's just they're exhausted,
they think that they're at the end of their relationship,
that they don't see a way out. Is there a
way out? Is there a way to change that?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I would love to say always, forever, of course there is.
But I have also been a partner to conscious uncouplings,
which is sometimes the healthiest thing for everyone involved. But
I would like to say that hope is probably the
most powerful human motivator. Fear there is a strong one,
(23:01):
and a lot of us get trapped in cycles of
fear or respond out of fear. But hope is stronger
even still than fear, and even for those who are exhausted,
who don't see a way out, I like to lift
up that we can only think of the options that
we can think of. One of the reasons we go
to a coach or a guide is because they have
(23:23):
a different perspective. They can bring a different language or
a different set of tools, and those can often make
the difference because they're new, because they're alternative, they come
at things in a different way. So I like to
lift up that if you haven't done this particular way
of seeing yourself and your partner, that is the enneagram,
(23:44):
if you haven't done work in emotional intelligence, then all
hope is not lost. There is plenty of things that
we can still be doing to save You know what
is meaningful, and you know deep and exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And I'm going to go back to before I started
my work on myself, right, because the only thing we
can change is ourselves.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Is I did not think I wanted to be married
to my husband anymore, and we now are at the
most beautiful place and I'm in the best relationship, and
I never thought that that would be possible. So I'm
telling you.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That it is. But there is work involved.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You've got to get educated, you've got to create change
within yourself, and you've got to change how you respond
and understand your partner.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
So and I like to say that we all human
beings grow we as we live. That's just how we
are in the world. So the choice as a relationship
is are we going to grow together or are we
going to grow apart?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And that's okay to grow Yeah, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But with intentionality, with awareness and intentionality, we can grow
together and have that beautiful vision you've just painted that choice.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, So can you give us like two tools that
maybe couples somebody's out there listening right now, that could
help maybe to interrupt some of their unhelpful patterns with
their partners.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Sure. The first tool I give to everybody in my
first session when we get together. It's a very simple tool.
It's just a horizontal line. Just think of a horizontal
line in your mind. At any point in time, every
human being is either above the line or below the line.
When we're above the line, we're curious, we're open, we're
willing to question our beliefs, we're playful. When we're below
(25:38):
the line, we're committed to being right. We are defensive,
we're closed off. It is the default nature of the
human brain to be below the line. It has evolved
as a threat detection system, So being on alert is
the way the brain is. But it's tough to be
in dialogue. It's tough to have meaningful connection. It's tough
to make positive change when we're below the line. So
(25:58):
a simple tool I teach out of the gate is
just to ask your partner and to ask yourself, am
I above the line or am I below the line?
You're not a good person or a bad person for
being in one place or the other. It's not right
or wrong. But what it does do is it informs
whether or not this is the right time to have
a conversation, or this is the right time to reach
out and make a connection or not. And it spares
(26:19):
a lot of pain and heartache, a lot of that
personal insult from your partner snapping at you or whatever.
Just do a quick check in with yourself and with
your partner. So that's that's the first tool I would recommend.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And yeah, so I asked for two, Can we have
another one?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
No, I know you did the other one. I'm just
going to sort of touch on briefly. It's a little
bit more complicated, but I think people who can appreciate
where it's coming from. It's about slowing down the process
of conversation. And I call it the three time rule.
And what we do is that in the first time
I come to you and I say, Marci, I've been
thinking about this. Are you in a place that you
(26:54):
can hear my thoughts and your job is just to
hold the space open and ask curious or clarifying questions
and let me share where I'm at. Then we allow
at least twenty four hours to pass before we have
the second time, and the second time the roles are reversed.
You're going to come to me and say, Todd, I
thought about what you said, and here's where I'm at.
I'm going to hold the space open with only curious
(27:15):
or clarifying questions and allow you to really share. Then
twenty four more hours past we come to the third time,
and now we've both had a chance to be heard
in full, We've both had a chance to reflect them
what the other said. Now we can really enter into
meaningful conversation that isn't reactive. And I find that just
slowing the process down intentionally in those ways, being sure
(27:37):
that everybody gets hurt, can really make that third conversation
quite productive.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, that sounds amazing. You have to make a lot
of changes, right To do something like that and hold.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That space open requires some skills and some practice.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, exactly, you got to take a little work on that.
So let's just say somebody's not at that place yet.
What are just some easy little things like they could
do to respond instead of react? Right, Like you get
the email that ticks you off. You know somebody has
(28:16):
said something that you've taken in a certain way, even
if they maybe didn't intend it that way.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Or your kid pisses you off, Like, what.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Can you do? So a tiny little three steps that
I invite folks into I call it rd R, which
is recognized disengage redirect. The first thing that I invite
everybody to do is to become more in tune with
our bodies. Our hearts are always looking to the past
(28:50):
and how things were and how they might have been.
Our brains are always looking at the future but the
threat and concern and worry. But our physical body is
always in the present. I like to say, you don't
have to pee next week, you weren't hungry yesterday. So
we learn all of this great information about what's going
on with us from our bodies. So we have to
first learn what does being ticked off do to me?
(29:13):
Do I clench my job, I do I palms get sweaty?
Do our voice get loud? So that we can recognize
when we're triggered, then we want to disengage, take a walk,
do a breathing meditation, write a note, somehow get yourself
out of that situation, because rarely is it as urgent
as it seems. It doesn't have to be resolved in
this minute. We can just break and allow our system
(29:35):
to reset, the nervous system. You know that those chemicals
that go through our mind because we get worked up,
they have a half life, and if we can just
breathe through it, we will return to a better state.
And then redirect, which is pick a different way to
approach the issue that you're struggling with now that you're
in a new space, a.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Different way to react and approach it. But another one
that was a big one for me to learn was
when you approach a conversation.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yes, that's the above line below the line that's everything?
When when is everything?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Because it's like if somebody is not in a good headspace,
so they're busy or frantic, like and then you're you're
trying to like load them up with something that you
want to talk about, it's not going to go well.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I know, I'm saying to my teenage children all the time.
Timing Timing bad? Can I have timing? You're asking it
the wrong time?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And but I think that that's just you know, somebody
has this guttural feeling all of a sudden and then
they're just like right at it and and yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
You know a lot of the work that I do
with folks is around emotional resilience, which is the capacity
to sit with your negative feelings and not be controlled
or driven by them. And that's a big part of
the relationship getting better is not you know, being triggered
so so quickly and knowing when I'm triggered, Okay, this
(31:09):
is how I change that rather than those patterns that
happen when I respond reactively and then you respond reactively.
And that's that's what we're trying to interrupt.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So we've talked about I feel like we've talked a
lot about relationships, right and changing that. But you know,
one of the things that I did bring up, it's
about changing yourself. How can we even become somewhat self
aware that, like I have someone in my life, they
can't keep a job, they can't stay in a relationship,
(31:42):
and it's everyone else's fault. When do you become aware, like,
what's the one thing not changing?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Is the common denominator?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
The common denominator? Right, the common denominator? And and so
like like even with me and trying to change my life,
I kept changing and moving and doing all these different things,
and things would fall apart, and then finally I would
be like, what's the one thing I'm always taking with me?
It's never changing me, you know, so that's why it's changing. Yeah, yeah,
(32:17):
So how can we start to become self aware? Like
is there a way for us to start, you know,
like having some sort of questions.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
We ask ourselves for thought process or.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Mean, I know not everybody's going to do it, but
is there a way?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Well? Yeah, And I'll begin by saying I'm a firm
believer when the teacher, When the student is ready, the
teacher appears. So, you know, curiosity about maybe this podcast,
this conversation, that might be the sign that you're like, okay,
maybe I'm ready to learn some more. So just be
open to little curiosities. But to answer your question about
(32:55):
how that's really where the enneagram comes in, I just
encourage people from taking tests, because when we take an
anagram test, then it becomes about how accurate the report
is or how accurate the profile is. When we learn
about the system, then what we do is we find
ourselves in it, and it almost becomes an act of confession.
(33:17):
I am a Type five. That means these wonderful things,
but it also means this shadow side, I own it.
One of the ways that I discovered that I am
a Type five is that as I was reading one
of the Enneagram books, there was a line in print
that I swear. As I read it, I thought to myself,
I have never told anybody this, and there it is
in print. So clearly this thing knows how I function,
(33:41):
how my brain works. And it was get feels just
talking about it. But those are the moments that bring
self awareness about. But it starts with a curiosity and
the desire, and then this system will give you tools
and finger holds and footholds to you know, crack that
that shell and emerge with the new self awareness.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So when you started doing this work and seeing these changes,
and you're a type five, which I guess if you
do this work, you'll figure out what that is. How
many times are there nine?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
You said nine?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Nine?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
That any means nine in Greek.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh I got you, I got you?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Okay, thank you?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But like when you when you start figuring out about
yourself and then you start figuring out about your partner,
Like what.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Can you discover through that if you if you are
even adaptable or is like, are there more adaptable people
for each other that you could learn that through the enneagram?
Or is it just how Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, everybody has a difficult road to hope. One of
the interesting things about the enneagram is that it paints
a picture of of maturity. We know what an unhealthy
immature type five looks like. We know what an average
type five looks like. We know what a self actualized
type five looks like. And that's part of how it
helps you grow, is it shows you the arc, what's next,
where to go, how to get there. But I'll share
(35:15):
a quick story. So as a type five, I'm a
head center type I take the world in as data.
Everything must be tested and proved. My wife is a
heart center type type two. Everything is about relationship. Everything
is about connection. And as we're raising our children when
they were very little, and she has a degree in
human development. By the way she says this is the
better way to parent. This is the better way for
us to handle this particular situation. And I said, no, no, no,
(35:39):
I know better. But why why didn't I listen to
I don't know, But because of the enneagram? She said, Ah,
my husband takes things in through data. So she found
an article in psychology today and she sent it to me.
And when I saw the data, when I read it
and processed it that way, I was like, oh, thank
you for sending me that. And now I'm totally on
board with the things that she wants to do. So
(36:00):
she just had to talk to me in a different
way rather than saying, hey, trust me, because I don't
do things in that way. I do things with that
she does things in relationships. So learning each other's vocab,
learning each other's points of of you know, importance or
priority is really a key to using the enneagram and relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So what if you have a lot of trauma from your.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Past and everything difficult, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, because it's not just about discovering like this is
how I process information. I mean, you do, but like
in a yeah, in a very well I I believe
in a in a even a more warp warped way,
because like your brain is has changed, and so how
(36:54):
do we change our brains? Because you know, I had
to rewire my brain and there were many things that
I had to do.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
It's one of the beautiful things about the human brain
that we are now discovering that the neuroplasticity lasts all
the way to the end, and it seems like perhaps
even beyond the end somehow. So there is never a
point where we can say, well, I'm too old, my
brain won't do new things. But as I understand it,
neuropathways are like ski runs. The more we go down them,
(37:23):
the more compacted the snow gets, the faster the terms become.
And doing things in new ways is like cutting through
fresh snow. It's hard to do, it's physically exhausting. And
that's the case that when we want change, the probably
the most important ingredient is being gracious with ourselves, is
(37:45):
being patient and forgiving and recognizing this is not a
linear journey from A to B, two, C, T D.
This is a journey of fits and starts. This is
a journey of successes and setbacks. And when we are
patient and gracious with ourselves, then we have the fertile
ground to do the work that that lay ahead and
it and it takes years. Took me years. I'm sure
(38:07):
it took your you years too. But that doesn't mean
there aren't things we can get going, get going on
right away to begin to feel some relief.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Do you think that within a job? I was just
thinking about. You know, someone in a job and they're
really unhappy in their job and they say they can't
get along with their boss right and again, you know
this is I think about it today, like as someone
in a role that is over let's say a department.
(38:42):
You know, they're answering to the higher ups and they
have a lot of stress to perform, and someone under
them may not understand what what their perspective or why
they are digually the way that they are. Not saying
that they shouldn't manage better, because that's also a skill
learning how to mean. Yeah, And there's a lot of
(39:05):
people out there managing people that are not good. I
at one time was one of those people because I
was I was thrown into a job that I had
no idea what I was doing and I had to
learn everything, and I was an utter nightmare to other people.
So I own it. I own it. But so you
(39:26):
think you think that you you're so unhappy in your job,
right and I hate my boss, and this is that, Like,
what can we do because you're not you're not going
to therapy with your boss. What can you do to
try to shift things to try to help it to
be better for you in a way, like to rethink it,
(39:48):
not take it personally, and and and maybe if you
can make some shifts for yourself, maybe the job wouldn't
be as bad as you think it is.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, you know, there's a longitudinal study that Harvard has done.
I think it goes back maybe seventy years now about
what is the what makes people happy? And what they've
discovered is the quality of our relationships is the number
one indicator of our happiness. So you really put your
finger right on it. I think there's a couple of
things I would lift up first and foremost is we tend,
I think, in our modern culture to put a lot
(40:21):
of eggs in one basket. And there's a good science
that shows the more areas that we have social connections
than when they go south in one of those areas,
we are more resilient. So having a club or a
hobby that you know you meet with people, or a
trivia team or a train building club, whatever, I don't know,
(40:43):
having your family, being in a church community or in
a choir or in some sort. And then there's work.
When all we do is work. When I see my
wife for a couple of hour minutes in a day
and I'm with my boss for ten hours, five days
a week, then it like it's my everything, and it
can really dampen my whole life. So diversify, almost like
(41:05):
a financial advice. Diversify is one of the ways that
we can find some of that joy and happiness. The
other is that when we do understand, like maybe what
our boss's Aneagram type might be, it really can reveal
why they do things the way they do. And again
it depersonalizes it and it can give you some tools.
(41:26):
Like you know, if your boss happens to be an eight,
the eights value strength, so when you talk to him,
talk to him strong instead of being polite and kind.
Or maybe he's a four, any values creativity. All right, well,
let's come to him with unique things. Like we can
sort of meet people where they're at by recognizing what
they value, what moves them what motivates them.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So if you can't do that, though, is there something
like can you do take the enneagram yourself and then
like try to make changes for yourself so you can
help yourself nesturely, it's sort of.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
It has large categories and they get ever more refined.
So even if we don't know what our boss or
our partner or our neighbor's type is, we can begin
with large scale questions like heart center, head center, body center,
and we try different tactics and see and then and
then narrow and then see and then narrow. So for me,
(42:22):
at least, this is how I do it. But again,
I've been studying the system for a while. But when
you have the system in hand, you you can begin
to spot it. You recognize people will behave in these ways.
There's there's only really truly, it's archetypal, you know what
I mean. So you're looking for archetypes, and when you
have an understanding of them, you can begin to spot them.
(42:45):
You know, Yeah, I spot people pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So oh okay, So if you if you kind of
understand the whole program or that that formula in the
different types of the system, you can actually manage how
you'll identify, like maybe who somebody is like they're not,
so this is how maybe I should manage that personally.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I like to think about it like musical scales. If
I don't know if you know much about music, but
there's A and A sharp and B C and C sharp.
So if you think about the personality types, like each
of us being a different key, then what I do
is I play in your key. So I might talk
to my child who's a six in one way, and
(43:29):
then my wife, who's a two in another way. You
get same message, same content, but played in a different
key so that they heard me. And that's what you
begin to recognize is the key that the other person
is playing in. And I can talk to you for
an hour and at the end of that, I'm like, oh,
I know you're playing in the key of three, like
that's who you are, and that's fine, that's great. I
(43:51):
don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, I like what you're saying, and I really want
people to hear this outside to everyone listening, is that
remember when parenting our children, you can't parent them the same.
They're not no.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, and they don't necessarily grasp that.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, and it's hard and it's just And I also
like and this is for me and I God, hopefully
no one hates me. But I can't stand it when
somebody says, well I had to do it this way
when I was ten, like we are like in a
different iteration. Everything's changed. We have to evolve, and you
(44:37):
know it's it's varies six years between my oldest and
my youngest.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I've had to evolve as a parent as the world
has changed. And they'll say, why did my sister get
something I didn't get? And said, well, you and your
sister are different people. You're going to be parented differently.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, and and and I like what you said. Also,
like finding things that you enjoy that's so important. Don't
live for somebody else else. And because I did that myself,
I got lost in everybody else. And because I didn't
know who I was. I mean, that was part of
my trauma. And I had lost myself. And you know,
(45:11):
I was always trying to find happiness and validation through
other people. And it's really when I found the love
and connection with myself, my inner self, like going within
instead of outside of myself. That's so much changed. But
I'm just fascinated because it's just, you know, there's I
just feel.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Like it's hard to have good relationships. It's hard to communicate,
it's hard to understand other people, and just even in
society and politically, everything's so divided instead of like just understanding,
we can have different ideology and you know, just different
(45:52):
ways of thinking. So it's it's just so important to
have these conversations. So, you know, hopefully, like you said,
whenever that student is ready to be taught, the teacher
is there, right, And you can't make anyone listener be ready.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
They have to be ready for themselves, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So, But it only takes just a desire, that's it.
Any skill, doesn't take any experience, doesn't take any readiness,
just desire.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
All right.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So for those that are ready to dive in right now,
So where can they find you and learn more?
Speaker 3 (46:27):
So, as you've mentioned, my company I found it is
called connect fully, and we live in a world where
you can spell things however you like. So it's spelled
with the ko at k O n n e z
t f u l l Y. You can reach me
connectfully dot com. You just shoot me an email Todd
at connectually dot com. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram.
(46:48):
You'll find me all over. But I like to hear
from people I'm learning. I certainly don't have a corner
on knowledge, and I find every couple brings unique stories
of success and challenge and how they've overcome it. So
I would love to hear where people are at, what
where their wins are, where their struggles are, So you
reach out to me connectfully.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Dot com Connectfully.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I made that a little difficult for myself earlier.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
But thank you all so much for joining us today,
and thank you Todd for joining Wake Up with Marcy.
And this episode has brought you clarity, hope, or a
new perspective. It would means so much of you could
share it to somebody that needs it, a friend, a partner,
a family member, anyone that needs this message, because here's
(47:36):
the truth. Working on relationships doesn't mean that it's broken.
It means that you love yourself that relationship, that person
enough to grow, and often that growth begins with yourself.
So thank you again Todd for coming on the show,
thank you for having me, and thank you all for listening,
(47:59):
why sharing this episode and helping to spread the message
to others. That may need it. You never know whose
life you're going to change just by pressing that share button,
so thank you again for joining me today. It is
time to wake up to your worth because your past
doesn't define you. You are not alone, and it's never
(48:22):
too late to become who you are meant to be.
So I'll see you next time on Wake Up with
Marcy
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